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MacRumors
May 3, 2006, 12:08 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

PortalPlayer responds (http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=187002412) to ongoing concerns that their upcoming chips are not planned on use in upcoming Apple flash-based iPods. Specifically, it appears the next-generation iPod nano will use a Samsung chip as previously reported (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/04/20060426223303.shtml).

Of interest, PortalPlayer's CEO Gary Johnson stated that the next generation video iPod chip has yet to be decided and remains "up for grabs".

According to another eeTimes article (http://www.eet.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=187001818) both the PortalPlayer chip and the Samsung chip are described as "ARM-based" processors, indicating that there is some code portability between chips.

The next-generation Video iPod has long been rumored to be a touch-screen iPod, but the most recent claims (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/04/20060413131333.shtml) have indicated that it has run into technical difficulties delaying its release until (at least) late 2006.

nagromme
May 3, 2006, 12:11 AM
"Up for grabs" could simply mean THEY haven't heard anything about any such product either :)

But I believe! I think some kind of bigger-screen, video-centric iPod will come eventually.

msandersen
May 3, 2006, 12:11 AM
I supposed the rumors of a switch and Apple working with Samsung has to do with price negotiations. :D

longofest
May 3, 2006, 12:12 AM
Interesting... seems to conflict with ThinkSecret who said that the next gen iPod was almost ready, but had flaws and then had to be re-designed.

twoodcc
May 3, 2006, 12:14 AM
well it seems like we won't see a new iPod for awhile now

poundsmack
May 3, 2006, 12:26 AM
with apple and intel being friends and all it confuses me why they would not use an Xscale chip as it to is arm...

Multimedia
May 3, 2006, 12:37 AM
Reads like this product is in redesign phase due to technical difficulties with what they thought it was going to be. I think we'll be lucky to see this ready for the Christmas shopping season. :( Maybe they'll bump the storage capaciry on the 5G meanwhile. :)

EricNau
May 3, 2006, 12:40 AM
Gary Johnson, the first step is admitting you've lost. :D

Shamus
May 3, 2006, 12:50 AM
Well hopefully they make a small upgrade to the iPod line, like larger capacity Nano, between now and the time they release the iPod 6g or video or whatever its called.

kev0476
May 3, 2006, 12:56 AM
Wow, i bought my 5g ipod the day it came out, like the second that i found out, and it is still top of the line 60 GB! Can't wait to see what the new ones will look like though, the nanos also are looking for an upgrade, people need more than 1000 songs, my brother filled his up fast. I think apple is currently focusing on the macbook and the mac pro, and the last macbook pro. Xserves as well or macserves? Apple still needs to upgrade its high end computer desktops before it comes out with a high-end ipod.

Superdrive
May 3, 2006, 12:57 AM
We all know that there is more coming down the line. It really isn't a bad thing for Apple to be sitting on this gen for a little more than six months. They just need to make sure the next iteration is done right so everyone will be happy Christmas morning.

As far as the chips inside the iPods go, is there really anything different we can expect to see? Or will this be similar to the PPC->Intel transition where the soul is the software?

EricNau
May 3, 2006, 12:59 AM
Apple still needs to upgrade its high end computer desktops before it comes out with a high-end ipod.
Except iPods are a huge moneymaker for Apple. They need that revenue.

sam10685
May 3, 2006, 01:00 AM
soon i hope...

Stridder44
May 3, 2006, 01:03 AM
Except iPods are a huge moneymaker for Apple. They need that revenue.


And we know how much Apple's hurtin for money right now :cool:


Really tho, I think an HD upgrade would suffice for now.

Peyton
May 3, 2006, 01:06 AM
I REALLY need a new iPod I want them to release it yesterday, this is beginning to sound like vista...:rolleyes:


off topic, did anyone else hear that vista was delayed until NEXT JUNE??? :eek: :eek: :eek:

EricNau
May 3, 2006, 01:06 AM
Really tho, I think an HD upgrade would suffice for now.
Except that wouldn't cause anyone to buy a new iPod even if they didn't have to. Even if they just changed the design (and didn't add any more features) they could sell a lot more.

Lollypop
May 3, 2006, 01:28 AM
According to another eeTimes article (http://www.eet.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=187001818) both the PortalPlayer chip and the Samsung chip are described as "ARM-based" processors, indicating that there is some code portability between chips.



This is what facinates me. If the ipod "OS" is writen for genric arm apple can have a choice of vendors, (for example) samsung for the high end, PortalPlayer for the nano's, intel for the videos and TI for the iphone, no more Freescale and IBM, lots of vendors with lots of options!

Staffroomer
May 3, 2006, 02:31 AM
I've never understood the video iPod.. I saw some freeware converting video so it will play on iPod. It was called iSquint..

Hehehehee..

Seriously though.. What's the point? :confused:

dguisinger
May 3, 2006, 02:33 AM
This is what facinates me. If the ipod "OS" is writen for genric arm apple can have a choice of vendors, (for example) samsung for the high end, PortalPlayer for the nano's, intel for the videos and TI for the iphone, no more Freescale and IBM, lots of vendors with lots of options!

However, it is important to understand, the PortalPlayer and Samsung chips have dedicated circuitry for decoding music from WMA, MP3, and AAC. Without this, the battery life would drop. They also now days have video accelleration as well for MPEG video standards. Intel doesn't have this in Xscale, xscale is too generic.

Actually, if you look, xscale isn't a product.
They have several different lines of products, some being IO processors, others being for handhelds, with different subsets of functions and features.

I do not beleive they have a embedded cpu for media players; they have handheld computer cpu's, but those are obviously aimed at a different use, have more features, worse battery life for audio-only apps, and of course, a much higher price point than a dedicated media player would.

In the end, PP/Samsung remain the best option.

On the other hand, don't forget the XScale "product line" has been used by apple before, for example, the network io processor is in the xserve RAID. Apple picks the best tool for the design. I give them credit for this; alot of companies like to use a single product and cookie cutter it into everything for ease-of-design...... that typically doesn't ever fit the needs of each individual market itself, and results in a poor product.

Lollypop
May 3, 2006, 03:02 AM
However, it is important to understand, the PortalPlayer and Samsung chips have dedicated circuitry for decoding music from WMA, MP3, and AAC. Without this, the battery life would drop. They also now days have video accelleration as well for MPEG video standards. Intel doesn't have this in Xscale, xscale is too generic.

Actually, if you look, xscale isn't a product.
They have several different lines of products, some being IO processors, others being for handhelds, with different subsets of functions and features.

I do not beleive they have a embedded cpu for media players; they have handheld computer cpu's, but those are obviously aimed at a different use, have more features, worse battery life for audio-only apps, and of course, a much higher price point than a dedicated media player would.

In the end, PP/Samsung remain the best option.

On the other hand, don't forget the XScale "product line" has been used by apple before, for example, the network io processor is in the xserve RAID. Apple picks the best tool for the design. I give them credit for this; alot of companies like to use a single product and cookie cutter it into everything for ease-of-design...... that typically doesn't ever fit the needs of each individual market itself, and results in a poor product.

I agree with you, and this is the point i tried to make. If the "core ipod os" can run on a arm processor apple can choose the chip that is optimized for the special abilities of the device. Have the easy of use of the base OS on all devices, but have the special bits run optimally for the intended device. I gave TI as an axample because they make a decent chip that has a arm processor and all the basics needed for a phone as well, adding up to a nice single chip sollution for a smartphone. So apple could use the ipods OS in a iphone, have the ease of use and have the communication bits run on a chip designed for communication.

eXan
May 3, 2006, 04:00 AM
Apple still needs to upgrade its high end computer desktops before it comes out with a high-end ipod.

Apple has different development teams for each product, so they do not interfere with each other

Di9it8
May 3, 2006, 04:23 AM
with apple and intel being friends and all it confuses me why they would not use an Xscale chip as it to is arm...

I suspect that Apple do not want to rely on just one chip supplier for all their products:rolleyes:

thejadedmonkey
May 3, 2006, 05:02 AM
I just hope this new iPod that keeps getting delayed has a revolutionary design like it was from 2->3->4th generation. The 5th generation just got boring...

bigandy
May 3, 2006, 06:11 AM
I just hope this new iPod that keeps getting delayed has a revolutionary design like it was from 2->3->4th generation. The 5th generation just got boring...


go tell that to the 15 million + people that bought one.

steve_hill4
May 3, 2006, 06:16 AM
I supposed the rumors of a switch and Apple working with Samsung has to do with price negotiations. :D
Yes, almost certainly.

Interesting to note though how much Samsung and Apple are effectively working towards iPod success especially when it wasn't too long ago Samsung bought out their mp3 players with tons of features in order to become another "iPod killer".

Oh and Creative have announced losses today blaming agressive pricing on mp3 players. They have now decided to re-focus on more profitable areas such as sound cards, (not pulling out of mp3 players, but effectively waving the white flag in the battle for now).

aswitcher
May 3, 2006, 06:31 AM
The 6th Gen really needs to take another leap in the line 3rd mono 4th colour 5th video. I personally want wireless headphones and/or a touchscreen pda device. I can't see Apple doing this for a bit and tend to believe Think Scret saying there are problems and delays.

BeyondCloister
May 3, 2006, 06:42 AM
The 6th Gen really needs to take another leap in the line 3rd mono 4th colour 5th video. I personally want wireless headphones and/or a touchscreen pda device. I can't see Apple doing this for a bit and tend to believe Think Scret saying there are problems and delays.

The problem I see (as a user) of a touch screen is fingerprints. Just how are you meant to enjoy the high quality picture when it is hidden behind all the smudges?

aswitcher
May 3, 2006, 06:47 AM
The problem I see (as a user) of a touch screen is fingerprints. Just how are you meant to enjoy the high quality picture when it is hidden behind all the smudges?

Yep, thats going to be a key challenge. Not sure how they can solve it. Cant image they will go wtih a stylus or some sort of ring on your hand for inputing.

iEdd
May 3, 2006, 06:59 AM
Who knows what the next one will be like, but I suspect it to be in 40 and 80GB versions, have bluetooth (with or without bluetooth earphones) and a larger screen. I think they will keep the classic click/scroll wheel though, maybe have the faded grey one appear when you touch the screen - 'touch anywhere' screen? The only problem is, like what other have mentioned is the fingerprint/scuffing/scratching problem. Maybe they could include a lined case somehow, so that when you slide it in, it wipes all the crap off the screen... or scratches it :eek: :p

AidenShaw
May 3, 2006, 07:21 AM
However, it is important to understand, the PortalPlayer and Samsung chips have dedicated circuitry for decoding music from WMA, MP3, and AAC.

Without this, the battery life would drop. They also now days have video accelleration as well for MPEG video standards. Intel doesn't have this in Xscale, xscale is too generic..
I've seen Intel demos (public, at trade shows) of Xscale doing real-time MPEG-4 playback, along with the next generations of handheld GPUs from nVidia and ATI. We've also seen Intel's roadmap showing the half-watt x86.

Your assessment is good for the current lines, but don't rule Intel out in the future.

iSee
May 3, 2006, 07:47 AM
I just can't get excited about a touchscreen iPod. I don't like the way touchscreen devices work.

Then again, Apple is pretty amazing at making pressure sensitive devices that have a pretty good feel. I guess if someone can pull this off, then they can.

And when you think about it, once you start a movie on a device and start watching, the buttons and other controls are just taking up space--wouldn't it be nicer if they just faded away until you needed them again, making room for a full-device picture?

AidenShaw
May 3, 2006, 09:00 AM
And when you think about it, once you start a movie on a device and start watching, the buttons and other controls are just taking up space--wouldn't it be nicer if they just faded away until you needed them again, making room for a full-device picture?
:rolleyes: Just like Windows Media Player does in full screen mode?

Proud Liberal
May 3, 2006, 09:06 AM
Reads like this product is in redesign phase due to technical difficulties with what they thought it was going to be. I think we'll be lucky to see this ready for the Christmas shopping season. :( Maybe they'll bump the storage capaciry on the 5G meanwhile. :)

Bumping the HDD capacity of the 5G makes a lot of sense to me, considering the huge quantity of 80GB drives they bought from Toshiba, coupled with the 60GB being put on the 60 day at-risk list,which I believe has expired by now...sounds like the iPod line is in a bit of a flux right now...

wedge antilies
May 3, 2006, 09:51 AM
Except that wouldn't cause anyone to buy a new iPod even if they didn't have to. Even if they just changed the design (and didn't add any more features) they could sell a lot more.

I can think of one person who would buy an 80GB iPod. ME!:)

deadturtle
May 3, 2006, 10:01 AM
I'd love to see one of those touch screen devices where the surface gets 'hard' over the areas that are supposed to be the interface... so the play button when its a play button would be a raised arrow under the screen etc... I've seen something close to that on a couple of japanese camcorders, but nothing like that in the US market... wonder if that is why apple went with Samsung?

treblah
May 3, 2006, 10:39 AM
I REALLY need a new iPod I want them to release it yesterday, this is beginning to sound like vista...:rolleyes:

According to the Buyer's Guide the iPod was last updated ~200 days ago. Just how frequently would you like them updated? Every 100 days? So you can whine about how you just updated and now it's obsolete after 3 and a half months?

Is your iTunes Library >60GB? :rolleyes:

akac
May 3, 2006, 10:59 AM
off topic, did anyone else hear that vista was delayed until NEXT JUNE??? :eek: :eek: :eek:

No, it hasn't. That's just what Garnter believes will happen. You know, Gartner - the research firm that gets about nothing right with Macs, PCs, or anything else in the last 5 years? I'm not saying it won't happen. I'm just saying that Gartner knows pretty much jack.

berkleeboy210
May 3, 2006, 11:56 AM
Ok Good, Makes me feel a little better after just buying an Archos AV500. which is an AMAZING device by the way! I hope Apple follows along the line of this thing when/if they release the real vPod

ccunning
May 3, 2006, 12:11 PM
I REALLY need a new iPod I want them to release it yesterday, this is beginning to sound like vistaExcept this device was never actually announced. How can it be late if we don't know for sure that it is comming?

ccunning
May 3, 2006, 12:15 PM
The problem I see (as a user) of a touch screen is fingerprints. Just how are you meant to enjoy the high quality picture when it is hidden behind all the smudges?I think the lack of tactile feedback is a bigger problem. I already find it obnoxious that the select buttong on my 5g isn't raised like it was on my Mini. It makes it harder to find by touch. I cant imagine how bad this would be for a touch screen.

nemaslov
May 3, 2006, 12:50 PM
I am not interested in a video pod and it seems that most don't care about more storage (except for video downloads). Should I assume that whenever an 80GB pod is released, it will be in the video form? I simply love having a ton of music with me and by 60GB has been full for way too long.:

bdkennedy1
May 3, 2006, 01:28 PM
Blah Blah Blah. I'm so sick of hearing about it, I don't care anymore.

thejadedmonkey
May 3, 2006, 01:57 PM
Good, if this means sound quality is like it used to be on the 1st and 2nd gen iPods.

rye9
May 3, 2006, 02:03 PM
I don't really want a storage increase, but a battery capacity increase.

boncellis
May 3, 2006, 02:20 PM
I could see a bump to an 80 GB HDD not just as a "holdover" until a new iPod is announced, but for people who like it just the way it is--maybe they will keep selling if the public isn't sold on the new product. Doubtful, but not altogether impossible.

How long until all iPods are Flash based? With a 60 GB Flash storage, wouldn't the battery life be that much longer? Coupled with the right ARM, they could really be promising.

jeffedsell
May 3, 2006, 02:24 PM
Actually, I'd prefer if the regular iPod line was updated with bluetooth (and sure, wi-fi, and made thinner, and a hard drive capacity bump, etc. -- I WANT BLUETOOTH!) and the "full-screen" version was treated as a separate product.

whee900
May 3, 2006, 04:32 PM
However, it is important to understand, the PortalPlayer and Samsung chips have dedicated circuitry for decoding music from WMA, MP3, and AAC. Without this, the battery life would drop. They also now days have video accelleration as well for MPEG video standards. Intel doesn't have this in Xscale, xscale is too generic.

Actually, if you look, xscale isn't a product.
They have several different lines of products, some being IO processors, others being for handhelds, with different subsets of functions and features.

I do not beleive they have a embedded cpu for media players; they have handheld computer cpu's, but those are obviously aimed at a different use, have more features, worse battery life for audio-only apps, and of course, a much higher price point than a dedicated media player would.

In the end, PP/Samsung remain the best option.

On the other hand, don't forget the XScale "product line" has been used by apple before, for example, the network io processor is in the xserve RAID. Apple picks the best tool for the design. I give them credit for this; alot of companies like to use a single product and cookie cutter it into everything for ease-of-design...... that typically doesn't ever fit the needs of each individual market itself, and results in a poor product.
The Dell DJ and Creative Zen line use Texas Instrument processors... But I guess that makes them need a bigger battery, thus making the product bulkier in the end. We don't want a big battery in the iPod, so I agree, PP or Samsung only should be used in the iPod line unless someone else comes out with a power-efficient chip.

deadturtle
May 4, 2006, 10:08 AM
The Samsung 7inch LCD (http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/04/samsungs-single-chip-7-inch-lcd/)

Seems a little large for an ipod but as an apple video player??? 7inches is not bad for watching your own movies on!

Apple Shmapple
May 4, 2006, 01:40 PM
I don't really want a storage increase, but a battery capacity increase.

My thoughts exactly. The battery is the real weakness of the current generation, not the HD size. I have the opportunity to purchase a new iPod at 20% off, so I've gotta take my friend up on the offer - which means my waiting game is over.

I figure if/when the new gen finally gets past the delays and releases, I'll just sell this one and break even on it.

aswitcher
May 4, 2006, 02:18 PM
The Samsung 7inch LCD (http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/04/samsungs-single-chip-7-inch-lcd/)

Seems a little large for an ipod but as an apple video player??? 7inches is not bad for watching your own movies on!

Apple have done such a huge flash deal with Samsung, I am sure they could get these at a good price and in volume...

TheMasin9
May 4, 2006, 02:34 PM
i remember when portalplayer came into the market as almost a nobody, and as soon as they picked up apples business thier stock took off. Without apple, portalplayer is almost nothing...

(L)
May 4, 2006, 07:18 PM
Any hope at all for a 6G sooner than October?:confused:

(L)
May 4, 2006, 07:36 PM
I don't really want a storage increase, but a battery capacity increase.

Why not both?

milatchi
May 4, 2006, 11:57 PM
I enjoy tactility. So a touchscreen iPod Video doesn't really swoon me.

Apple Shmapple
May 5, 2006, 09:05 AM
Any hope at all for a 6G sooner than October?:confused:

The fact still remains that the 60 gig iPod was placed on a "at risk" list. The list is designed to give retailers an advance idea of when a product will suddenly become much less desirable.

This could be due to any number of reasons, the least sexy being a simple price drop just because the product is over half a year old - which in the world of iPod makes it look like Father Time on New Years Eve.

rye9
May 5, 2006, 03:03 PM
Why not both?

Well, if the higher storage didn't increase the price, then sure, that would be awesome. But I do not want to pay more money for more storage... but Apple as always really increased capacity and kept the price, I was just saying that the battery life is more important to me bc the storage capacity is sufficient for me.