Rap Hating = form of bigotry...

[princealfie]

http://www.lowendmac.com/hodges/06/0505.html is the article in question. I was stunned to read this on the lowendmac list. Very insulting to African-American culture. I don't care much for most commercial rap but this guy hasn't listened to the underground stuff such as ATCQ or Pete Rock or Ugly Duckling (no cussing) or anything much true dat.

Apparently the writer must be baiting African-Americans... apparently must be asking for a critical beatdown (Ultramagnetic MC's)... Apparently I thought that the prejudice against rap music was done for but not the case...

In the words of Public Enemy's song "revolutionary generation":

It's just a matter of race
Cause a black male's in their face
Step back for the new jack swing
On the platter scatter huh
We got our own thing
Just jam to let the rhyth run
Day to day, America eats it's young
And defeats our women
There is a gap so wide we all can swim in
Drown in (uh get down) an get it
Got it goin' on wit it
Sister (hey) soul sister
We goin' be all right
It takes a man to take a stand
Understand it takes a
Woman to make a stronger man
(As we both get strong)
They'll call me a crazy Asiatic
While I'm singin' a song
Oh my god, oh my lord

Word... life. I'm outty. :eek: :cool:

[applemacdude]

[QUOTE]That's the kind of music is the music I like, not today's 50 Cent and Daddy Yankee.[/QUOTE

uh huh daddy yankee sure is a rapper...

[Airforce]

In the words of Public Enemy's song "revolutionary generation":

In the words of Samir:

Back up in your ass with the resurrection....

I don't like rap, but I do love Office Space...:p

[seabass069]

Vanilla Ice!!!! Now that's rap.

All right stop collaborate and listen
Ice is back with my brand new invention
Something grabs a hold of me tightly
Then I flow like a harpoon daily and nightly
Will it ever stop? Yo - I don't know
Turn off the lights and I'll glow
To the extreme I rock a mic like a vandal
Light up a stage and wax a chump like a candle.

[Airforce]

Vanilla Ice!!!! Now that's rap.

All right stop collaborate and listen
Ice is back with my brand new invention
Something grabs a hold of me tightly
Then I flow like a harpoon daily and nightly
Will it ever stop? Yo - I don't know
Turn off the lights and I'll glow
To the extreme I rock a mic like a vandal
Light up a stage and wax a chump like a candle.


Too cold..too cold...

[scem0]

http://www.lowendmac.com/hodges/06/0505.html is the article in question. I was stunned to read this on the lowendmac list. Very insulting to African-American culture. I don't care much for most commercial rap but this guy hasn't listened to the underground stuff such as ATCQ or Pete Rock or Ugly Duckling (no cussing) or anything much true dat.

Apparently the writer must be baiting African-Americans... apparently must be asking for a critical beatdown (Ultramagnetic MC's)... Apparently I thought that the prejudice against rap music was done for but not the case...

I'm sorry but you totally are missing his point. He did not say that all rap music was bad, and did not once mention African American culture. He said he did not like "the (c)rap music that everyone is listening to today." He not once said rap music was bad by nature or that it's impossible to have good rap music.

I'm in full agreement with him actually. The vast majority of rap music being played nowdays is unbelievably ******. Artists that have absolutely nothing to say and say way too much are everywhere. Artists like 50 cent... Artists like Chingy... They are all over the place.

I like rap music when it's done right and the artists actually say something - Lauryn Hill, Kanye West, etc - but the sad fact is that what you hear on the radio, for the most part, are artists that having nothing original or interesting to say.

And as for African American culture, I like it a lot, and I don't believe for a second that African American culture is all about ****ing hoes, 20 inch rims, violence, and misogyny. Your underground artists are not what I'm talking about. I'm pretty damn sure the writer of the article was not talking about these underground artists, either. He and myself are talking about all the 50 cents, all the Chingys, all the Nellys, Paul Walls, etc, etc, etc.

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[solvs]

What a weird article. I don't like to cry racism, but this guy certainly has a bug up his butt about something. I'd say he's just an out of touch curmudgeon, but he's 18, so maybe he's just a dork.

[Chundles]

I don't like rap music but I'm not a racist. So where do I fit in?

[Airforce]

I don't like rap music but I'm not a racist. So where do I fit in?

With the rest of us sane people ;)

[killuminati]

I think he's just bitter because he works at Mcdonalds.

[pseudobrit]

He complains about having to hear the thump from cars playing rap music.

Clearly he's never been beside my car at a stoplight when When The Levee Breaks is playing on my iPod.

[solvs]

With the rest of us sane people ;)
I liked Public Enemy and Grandmaster Flash. Run DMC and Beastie Boys were ok. But I guess I'm dating myself.

[Blue Velvet]

On a general level, I tend to agree with this assertion. That's all I'll add to this thread.

[takao]

i don't know i would side with Blue Velvet here

after all the same stuff is annoying me here and most people aren't african-american

[Dont Hurt Me]

I don't like rap music but I'm not a racist. So where do I fit in?I dont like rap either but calling it Music is kind of a stretch isnt it.

[motulist]

The vast majority of people who buy rap music are white, not african-american, so insulting rap is hardly an attack on african-americans. It's all the suburban white kids who are drinking up mainstream rap like it's water in the desert.

[Dont Hurt Me]

The vast majority of people who buy rap music are white, not african-american, so insulting rap is hardly an attack on african-americans. It's all the suburban white kids who are drinking up mainstream rap like it's water in the desert.A screwed up bunch no doubt, I guess all the good music has been written years ago. Give me some Dylan.:D

[mactastic]

The 'pop' music of any genre pretty well sucks. The 'underground' stuff is almost always where it's at.

Clearly he's never been beside my car at a stoplight when When The Levee Breaks is playing on my iPod.
Check out the Leftover Salmon (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playlistId=6898912&s=143441&i=6898894) version of that tune if you haven't already. Well worth the 99¢...

[IJ Reilly]

Why did a Mac website publish this?

My respect for lowendmac diminishes even more, and not because I agree or disagree with the sentiments, but because the opinions expressed have got nothing whatsoever to do with the Mac.

[thedude110]

What is his assertion?

Is it:

I work in a movie theater and in a McDonald's, and I hear kids talking that way, too. Many of them have no respect for adults. Some of them can't finish a sentence without using the F word several times.

Kids hear the rappers use this language, and they think it's okay to use the F word and GD every time they speak. Some of these kids are 12 and 13. It just isn't right!

such that rap is the downfall of our civilization, etc.;

or is it:

Did you know that this is the type of music that the US military uses to repel the enemy in Iraq?

such that, good thing the music of american minorities can be used as a repellent against other brown people;

or is it:

Anyway, take all of that and then add in the (c)rap music that everyone is listening to today, the fact that their call phones are ringing it, and your coworkers are playing it - it makes for a very bad day at work.

The worst part isn't that I don't like this music, but that there are so many kids listening to it that I can't avoid it.

such that "I'm annoyed that everyone seems to listen to music I don't like."

or is it:

For those of you who do enjoy today's music, I would like to point out that I have nothing against you personally. I just don't share your taste in music.

If you like that music, fine, but please don't email me if all you are going to do is flame me. It's not right to flame someone just for sharing their opinion.

such that my opinion is just my opinion and i hope people who listen to "that music" won't actually try to talk to me ...

I guess, ultimately, his point is:

Were do we draw the line and say enough is enough?

though that sounds dangerously like:

"We need to round up everyone who dislikes rap and do something about these 'people' and their 'music' ..."

So it goes with 18 year olds who haven't yet had a chance to examine themsselves or their worlds ...

[mkrishnan]

I don't like rap music but I'm not a racist. So where do I fit in?

I think the difference between what your describing and what the OP sees is like the difference between not believing in God and being an atheist. The latter implies a belief in that position as being somehow better than other positions.

The problem isn't people who don't like hip-hop. There's lots of music *I* don't like. I don't like any composers from the Classical era. Love my Baroque and before, love my Romantic, love my Modern, and beyond. But I really don't much care for the Classical era. But it doesn't bother me that other people like it.

Religion has hurt me more than it helps me. But I respect that other people find value in it.

So if you don't like hip-hop, but you don't care that other people do, if you're not out on a mission to "demonstrate" to people that hip-hop isn't music or is somehow objectively inferior to other tastes, then I think you're not part of the problem. You just have your own tastes, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Also, some people hate things about the culture because they *love* the culture.

I heard the beat and I ain't know what to write.
First line, should it be about the hoes or the ice?
4-4's or Black Christ? Both flows would be nice.
Rap about big paper or the black man plight.
At the studio console, asked my man to the right:
What this verse sound like, should I freestyle or write?
He said, Nas, "What the fans want is Illmatic, Stillmatic"
Picked up the pad and pencil and jotted what I feel

[dornoforpyros]

I think he's just bitter because he works at Mcdonalds.

ditto, we're talking about an 18 year old here who works (c)rap (sorry I couldn't resist) jobs and doesn't like rap music. Heck I agree with most of what he said about be bombarded with it all day, the fact is main stream rap is horrible. I'm listen to mostly rock & metal, but put on a Jurassic 5 or K-Os album and I'm down, heck last weekend I went to 2 swollen members shows.

It's just about avoiding the radio at all cost IMO. Since I stopped listening to the radio at all (about 2 years now) I've noticed I no longer have a hate on for popular music, mostly because I honestly have no idea what's popular anymore.

[SharksFan22]

He complains about having to hear the thump from cars playing rap music.

Clearly he's never been beside my car at a stoplight when When The Levee Breaks is playing on my iPod.

I've found Van Halen's "Unchained" or "Hot For Teacher" to have a similar effect. :D

But, I'll agree with the general sentiment that today's "Pop" music has to be some of the worst "pop" music in many, many years. Everything from the homogenization (sp?) and syndication of radio across multiple markets to the acceptance of hateful and angry rap music as "mainstream" turned me off to radio.

I'm reminded of an interview many years ago with Eddie Van Halen in "Rolling Stone" magazine. The reporter asked why he wasn't more like U2's Bono in wiriting songs about problems in society. Eddie replied that there's nothing wrong with what Bono does but unless Bono offered solutions to those problems it was a waste of time to write about them.

And as far as rap hating being a form of bigotry, I call BS on that one. That's like saying people who hate "classic rock" hate white people. Doesn't make any sense at all. Personally, I'm not a fan of rap but if someone wants to listen to it, knock yourself out.

[SharksFan22]

Oh, and one more thing that I just remembered. Anyone in their early- to mid-30s or older probably remembers the big arena or stadium rock shows that used to be the highlights of our summers. 50,000 kids all enjoying a great show with cheap tickets and lots of fun. Sure, we drank a LOT at those shows and had a lot of fun, but everyone was there to watch a great show by their favorite rock bands.

We just had a hip-hop/rap show in town a few nights ago and afterwards two people were shot outside. While I may be treading on the edge of generalization, my point is that today's hip-hop/rap shows promote an environment of hate, confrontation and anger, thereby perpetuating many of the stereotypes about the people attending those shows.

[pseudobrit]

What is his assertion?

I can't really tell. His essay is rambling, unfocused and poorly written. He lacks a clear central thesis. He exhibits an 8th grade style and vocabulary.

In short, he's like 75%+ of high school graduates in that he cannot write for ****.

A generous high school instructor would have given this piece a C, and any self-respecting editor would have laughed at such dribble and put it where it belongs – in the circular file – and not on their webpage.

[mkrishnan]

We just had a hip-hop/rap show in town a few nights ago and afterwards two people were shot outside. While I may be treading on the edge of generalization, my point is that today's hip-hop/rap shows promote an environment of hate, confrontation and anger, thereby perpetuating many of the stereotypes about the people attending those shows.

Mmmm, I think you have a really good point, but it should be balanced with...

- How often does this actually happen at hip-hop concerts? Even one preventable death is inexcusable, but it's still fair to ask if this was isolated, but just "seems" to form a pattern, or if it truly does. If the former, then really, it's an issue of concert venue security and so on, and not a statement about the hip-hop community.

- Haven't people also been killed at other kinds of concerts? I thought there were some people who were killed at a reunion concert of some eighties hair band recently? I couldn't find it on Google, though. Again, is it a security issue for big concerts, or is it a statement about the culture involved?

I grew up in Detroit, and what happened with Proof, not to mention what happened with Trice, has me shaken... :( I definitely *do* think there are aspects of the culture that encourage people to do stupid things. :( And lead to hurting people. :( But... I also think we should be balanced. It's too easy to see "patterns."

[SharksFan22]

- How often does this actually happen at hip-hop concerts? Even one preventable death is inexcusable, but it's still fair to ask if this was isolated, but just "seems" to form a pattern, or if it truly does. If the former, then really, it's an issue of concert venue security and so on, and not a statement about the hip-hop community.


Ah, excellent point. I agree with what you're saying.

My point is that when people go to a hip-hop/rap show there's an underlying sense of confrontation and anger whereas many of the rock shows I went to in the 80s and 90s didn't have that same underlying feeling. Instead it was more like "Dude, have a beer" and people had fun.

[mkrishnan]

My point is that when people go to a hip-hop/rap show there's an underlying sense of confrontation and anger whereas many of the rock shows I went to in the 80s and 90s didn't have that same underlying feeling. Instead it was more like "Dude, have a beer" and people had fun.

Awww, yeah, this is a really good point, too. Hip-hop concerts should have that gangsta' party kind of feel to them, with the guns put away and the BBQ out. :) "You got a gun up in your waist, please don't shoot up the place. (why?) Cuz I see some ladies tonight that should be having my babies, uh, babies, uh." :D

Although I respect the really intense music, too...hip-hop should be about saying those feelings in music, and not about with a gun or a knife in someone's face. I guess that rawness and intensity of the feelings people put in their verses is a blessing and a curse for the art....

[zimv20]

in cincinnati in 1979, 11 fans of The Who were trampled to death in a mad rush for seats.

afaik, that's the mostly deadly concert.

[SharksFan22]

Awww, yeah, this is a really good point, too. Hip-hop concerts should have that gangsta' party kind of feel to them, with the guns put away and the BBQ out. :) "You got a gun up in your waist, please don't shoot up the place. (why?) Cuz I see some ladies tonight that should be having my babies, uh, babies, uh." :D

Although I respect the really intense music, too...hip-hop should be about saying those feelings in music, and not about with a gun or a knife in someone's face. I guess that rawness and intensity of the feelings people put in their verses is a blessing and a curse for the art....

I see your point. The "blessing and a curse" is a good way to look at it. I guess one other way to look at is that when I worked in the promotions and entertainment business, people attending the rap shows showed up with a chip on their shoulder and looking for trouble. By contrast, the rock shows generally had people too drunk or stoned to cause much trouble. A lot of puking, perhaps.... :rolleyes:

I miss the days of $15 general admission seating.... :D

[XNine]

Funny that he lives in Denver, his description of DPS is spot on. And I too can't stand it when I hear the BUMMMMMMMMMMMMMBUMBUM BOOOOOOOM and the trunk rattling half a block away. I'm all for loud music, but there's a reason Bass is used as a low-tone and not for the main drive of music.

I'd have to say that the assumption that this kid is "racist" because he can't stand that ignorant, misguided wannabe crap excuse for music is pretty lame. It's like saying the NBA is racist for making the players wear suits. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=157530&highlight=nba+racist)

[mactastic]

in cincinnati in 1979, 11 fans of The Who were trampled to death in a mad rush for seats.

afaik, that's the mostly deadly concert.
The Great White (http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,11663,00.html) concert disaster is tops AFAIK. Bad, bad stuff there. But these are in a completely different category from violence at concerts.

Never saw too many fights when I'd go see the Dead! :D

But saw/participated in a couple at the Megadeth/Slayer concert I went to, so I'd have to say it's not just rap fans that are violent.

Seen lots of fights outside punk shows too.

[mkrishnan]

Actually, so there's a question I was remiss in not asking.... what does writing this little diatribe have to do with the mission of Low End Mac? At all? In any way? :(

[leekohler]

I stopped liking rap after Grandmaster Flash.

[motulist]

I stopped liking rap after Grandmaster Flash.

"It's like a jungle sometimes it makes me wonder how I keep from goin' under." I'm with you man, Grandmaster Flash is awesome. But you shouldn't discount rap that came out after that, there's a lot of good stuff out there if you give it a chance. You don't like Tribe Called Quest? When Tribe first came out it was like... nothing else. "Bonita Applebaum, you gotta put me on. Bonita Applebaum I said you GOTTA put me on."

[mjstew33]

I don't like rap music but I'm not a racist.
Ditto.

Rock, pop, punk here. :)

[FFTT]

Aerosmith's "Walk This Way" is my idea of a great rap song.

[solvs]

Sure, we drank a LOT at those shows and had a lot of fun, but everyone was there to watch a great show by their favorite rock bands.
Woodstock 99 was fun too. I just feel sorry for all of those people hurt at Arrested Development, Digital Underground, and Black Eyed Peas concerts. That was sarcasm BTW.

[Abstract]

I don't care much for most commercial rap but this guy hasn't listened to the underground stuff such as ATCQ or Pete Rock or Ugly Duckling (no cussing) or anything much true dat.

Your underground artists are not what I'm talking about.

I have a little lesson to teach all of you: People always try to add legitimacy to their musical tastes by mentioning that it's "indie" or "underground." Not everything indie or underground is good, and it doesn't mean that you have better taste than others. There are some good pop songs out there, but accept them for what they are......pop. They don't have to make a statement or change the world to be considered "quality." Madonna's 1st single from her newest album is a perfect pop song. I really do hate Madonna, but I'll admit it when someone makes a decent pop song.

And the reason some rap is "underground" may not be because they don't aim to be popular. It might be because nobody likes listening to it, and so they unintentionally have a low fanbase, since they suck balls. :p :p

Oh, I like rap, and yet I agree that it's everywhere and annoying. And yes, too much bass. Call me a racist. Yes, I'm racist against rap and bass, if that makes sense. *googley eyed*

[Abstract]

I'm listen to mostly rock & metal, but put on a Jurassic 5 or K-Os album and I'm down, heck last weekend I went to 2 swollen members shows.


LOL, not out loud, man. Someone might hear you. :p

[Lyle]

I'm not familiar with the web site, so I was thinking that it was some kind of spoof article (especially when it got to the part about his working at McDonald's). It reminds me of the "editorials" that sometimes appear on The Onion (http://www.theonion.com/).

[zimv20]

There are some good pop songs out there, but accept them for what they are......pop.
i think we're all going to have a hard time coming to agreement on musical terms. what is pop? are you familiar with the Buzzcocks? when they hit the scene, much like the sex pistols, they caused a bit of a punk rock stir. but when i listen to them now, i think, "wow, that pete shelley wrote some really nice pop songs."

kinda the same with the pistols, too. some good pop. i have a half-theory that, as time goes on, older music has such an influence on later bands that the older stuff de facto becomes pop.

coming from another angle, that of "pop" being "popular", do we then classify the following as pop?
- bohemian rhapsody
- free bird
- cars (gary numan)

[Project]

I love Hiphop. But respect the views of those who dont.

But what does it have to do with Macs? I cant see why they would run that article.

Hiphop aint as good these days as the late 80s to mid 90s, but there is still some good stuff coming out; Dilla - Donuts, A Piece of Strange, Be etc...

[mactastic]

i think we're all going to have a hard time coming to agreement on musical terms. what is pop? are you familiar with the Buzzcocks? when they hit the scene, much like the sex pistols, they caused a bit of a punk rock stir. but when i listen to them now, i think, "wow, that pete shelley wrote some really nice pop songs."

kinda the same with the pistols, too. some good pop. i have a half-theory that, as time goes on, older music has such an influence on later bands that the older stuff de facto becomes pop.

coming from another angle, that of "pop" being "popular", do we then classify the following as pop?
- bohemian rhapsody
- free bird
- cars (gary numan)
Heh... I was just listening to some old Black Sabbath the other day thinking "boy that's some good classic rock". :p

[IJ Reilly]

I stopped liking rap after Grandmaster Flash.

Isn't that like saying you stopped liking rock after Jerry Lee Lewis?

[xsedrinam]

Isn't that like saying you stopped liking rock after Jerry Lee Lewis?
Which would be akin to saying I never liked tele-evangelists, especially after Swaggart.