konfab not hitting potential

[mnkeybsness]

i'm sure most of us here have tried konfabulator (http://www.konfabulator.com) since it's release monday at 12 AM PST.

arlo really hyped up how great konfab will be on his forums, speaking of the potential of such an app. i must agree the konfab does have a very high potential to do some great things.

the problem a lot of people are having is justifying the $25 price tag.

all people can really do now with the widgets available are display time, temperature, newsreading...and did i mention TIME? there must be about 30 clocks available, all based on the same code...just with different skins.

does anyone else agree that arlo and perry should have made at least one widget that would show how limitless konfabulator can really be?

[FelixDerKater]

Two things...

First, it isn't the fault of the software that it is not being used to its full potential. With time, this will probably change.

Second, the Konfabulator site needs to have some sort of sorting of widgets so you don't have to scroll through 20 clocks to get to the 10 semi-useful other widgets.

[alset]

The amount of interest in Konfab has me pretty impressed. I think it will realize it's full potential over the course of a months or years. Three days is not much time for development of a truly great widget, though I am also disappointed to see so many variations of the basics. Reminds me of docklings... Almost all of them controlled volume, displays and clocks. With that in mind, perhaps Konfab will go the way of the dockling. I only found one that ever satisfied me and stayed from OS 10.0 to present day. Ah, Vanity Dockling... How I love thee!

Dan

[FattyMembrane]

i think that the main problem is that everyone feels the need to post his "incredible" clock skin. there's nothing wrong with skinning the widget, thats the whole point, and you have to start somewhere, but hopefully the skinning abundance will slow down soon and real widgets will emerge (maybe i should get off my ass and learn javascript :rolleyes: )

[Kid Red]

I have a few comments.

First, $25 is way too much for what it does currently.

Second, after you quit it and restart, a PERMANENT window stays open telling you to pay (like K2 did in 9) so it's no longer running here.

Third, the widgets are too damn big. They need to have an option to dock them all together to get a control panel or sorts. Like the stock ticker. One of those with the time, one with the weather, one with battery life, etc. I know they want to show off X's icon skills, but have a minimize option so they can dock.

Forth, there ain't but 4 widgets I'd even use.

All in all, all hype and no substance for now.

[pepeleuepe]

Just wondering what everyone would like to see in the future of Konfabulator? What kind of widgets would you like to see, and what would you find more useful? I can't think of anything specific of the top of my head, but I taught myself some Javascript last year, so maybe, if its not too complicated I could take on a side project besides going to school all the time and doing homework. Just a thought. :)

[Gus]

Here's one:
How aboout a message board response indicator thingie. You know, instead of having to check the forum over and over, or checking e-mail, the widget checks for updates on a thread.

Or better yet, how about an eBay bid notifier for when I am selling on eBay and want to be alerted when someone has placed a new bid.

I don't know. I guess both of those are more me being lazy than anything really useful to the general public. I'd use them, though!

Regards,
Gus

[FattyMembrane]

Originally posted by pepeleuepe
Just wondering what everyone would like to see in the future of Konfabulator? What kind of widgets would you like to see, and what would you find more useful?
i think we'll have more options once kon 1.1 is released. it will support text input, more click states, and more scripting integration. text input will be the real biggie, you can actually do most of what could be done with it now, but you would have to create your own file of commands that you want to send the widget, which defeats the point of a small desktop application.

[sparkleytone]

to judge konfab based on the widgets that ship with it is missing the point. if you want a widget that does a certain thing, make one. if you don't know how, request it on the konfab forums and see if someone is willing to help.

konfabulator is expensive yes, and it also has that annoying window (that you can drag offscreen). this has not made me uninstall it, because I love what it does, I love the simplicity of the widgets, and I love the fact that at 1.0, it doesn't eat my G3 to pieces.

konfabulator is truly what you want it to be. example, i have a button that is always on top of everything. its very small and when i click it, every window of every program is hidden and i am at the finder with a clean desktop. there are so many things that you can make it do. i am sure someone will come up with something soon that will replace the dock functionality for alot of people.

konfabulator is small, simple, and powerful. that is a winning combination. i wouldn't be surprised if there are higher-ups at Apple that are following Konfab's progress very closely.

[phgreer]

The only ones I like using are the

Digital clock

Weather thingy

Battery meter

Stock quotes

Slashdot article summary thing.


However I can't justify paying 25 dollars for information I can get with a few more clicks to the Internet. Some of that stuff should be options in OSX anyway.

The network traffic widget doesn't seem very accurate. I kind of wish OSX had something like the flashing computers Network icon that is in Windows. For instance when I submit a bug report via Safari I have no idea it's gone through.

[iGold]

I haven't dl'd it yet but from looking at the various screenshots...

How flashy does a clock have to be. I can look at the upper right of my desktop to see the time. Same with airport and battery meter. Maybe I'm just getting to be an old fart.

I'm trying to figure out what kind of widget could make me want this and just can't think of anything I couldn't get myself off the net.

My wife goes on business trips regularly, now if someone could create a wdget that...nevermind.

[oldMac]

I just noticed it this morning and downloaded it. Being a bit of a JavaScript geek, I was thrilled to see something like this made.

Already, the potential is amazing at version 1.0. I promptly created a widget that monitors one of my client's web sales. $25 seems a little high, but barring any major problems in the next week, I'll be coughing it up. This is a *great* start to a product that was *sorely* needed on the Mac platform.

Those who don't see the potential wil see it within a month when people have a bit more time to play.

[beatle888]

Originally posted by mnkeybsness
i'm sure most of us here have tried konfabulator (http://www.konfabulator.com) since it's release monday at 12 AM PST.

arlo really hyped up how great konfab will be on his forums, speaking of the potential of such an app. i must agree the konfab does have a very high potential to do some great things.

the problem a lot of people are having is justifying the $25 price tag.

all people can really do now with the widgets available are display time, temperature, newsreading...and did i mention TIME? there must be about 30 clocks available, all based on the same code...just with different skins.

does anyone else agree that arlo and perry should have made at least one widget that would show how limitless konfabulator can really be?


you failed to mention the to do list widget.
this has wonderful potential...especially if it
would pull from ical to do's into the widget
to do list. any editing in either app updates
the other.

people just need to get some creative ideas..
these programmers im sure busted their ass
on getting this app as sweet as it is. the future
is bright for this app.

id like to see some type of command center that
would let you create multiple desktops, enter an
email straight from an input field in the widget.
pop up window compatibility....hover over a
projet icon in this command center and it opens
your project folder.

enter text into another text field and click send.
a window pops up asking you which format would
you like to save this file as....word...text...quark
...email...sticky.

that way we dont have to have all these apps
open...but we can still control them ....enter
text into the input field and save it to your address
book...on and on.

[AmbitiousLemon]

there are a lot f things wrong with konfab, but the worse is the price (and not just because it is $25)

the developers have a lot fo audacity in my mind to spend months hyping an app that has no functionality. all they did was create an environment which people can use to write cheap crappy little javascript apps for. but the worst of it is this: the want to charge you $25 to use the app (that does nothing) and then tell you to develop the functionality.

what kind of ass -backwards world do we live in where developers charge you to write their app for them?

now had the developers
1) open sourced their app
2) made their app freeware
3) provided plugins that do anything

maybe it would be an app worth talking about but i can't help feeling that they are just trying to rape the mac community.

if the app was free and came with some free plugins and offered some shareware plugins it would make a lot more sense for developers to write their own. but as it is now the whole thing is backwards.


o and one last thing. stop calling them widgets! can't believe a developer would use a word already used by the os and amc community for something else when there is already an accepted word for what they are creating. these are not widgets people! these are plugins. first you rape us then you try to confuse us by use computer terminology all wrong. hearing people talk about konfab widgets makes me think about just how stupid these developers are. i need a pram and in lcd hard drive for my kernal to upload to the firewire protocol in time for my OS to optimize fully. if you want to invent a snappy name for something don't just confuse things by using something already in use otherwise you sound like an idiot.

[beatle888]

Originally posted by Gus
Here's one:
How aboout a message board response indicator thingie. You know, instead of having to check the forum over and over, or checking e-mail, the widget checks for updates on a thread.

Or better yet, how about an eBay bid notifier for when I am selling on eBay and want to be alerted when someone has placed a new bid.

I don't know. I guess both of those are more me being lazy than anything really useful to the general public. I'd use them, though!

Regards,
Gus


necessity is the mother of invention.
convenience can make for a more efficient
work flow....maybe something more useful
would be a url watcher....when a userspecifed
url changes it shows the updated page info.

[sparkleytone]

dude...AL...chill out. you dont like it, fine. but don't throw the word 'rape' around like its nothing. not very good behavior for a mod.

i think its useful. i like it. when i have it, i will pay $25. it has already uncluttered my menu bar. the FinderOnly widget is one that has worked its way into the manner in which I use my computer.

i think its a pretty good piece of software if there are so many strong opinions on it.

http://homepage.mac.com/alanbrent/.Pictures/konf2.png

[AmbitiousLemon]

Originally posted by sparkleytone
dude...AL...chill out. you dont like it, fine. but don't throw the word 'rape' around like its nothing. not very good behavior for a mod.

i think its useful. i like it. when i have it, i will pay $25. it has already uncluttered my menu bar. the FinderOnly widget is one that has worked its way into the manner in which I use my computer.

i think its a pretty good piece of software if there are so many strong opinions on it.


im sorry but i find the whole thing to be in VERY bad taste. It disgusts me that a software developer would do something like this. i am insulted by the audacity of the developers and i am surprised so many people would submit to this kind of treatment. it reminds me in many ways of the ugly foundation of spymac.com and macwhispers.com and leave a very bad taste in my mouth. and i wish the mac community was smart enough not to support the efforts of people like these who want nothing but to hurt the community for their own gain.

i think developers should be looking at what they can create to help the community not looking to see how they can exploit the community.

[beatle888]

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon


im sorry but i find the whole thing to be in VERY bad taste. It disgusts me that a software developer would do something like this. i am insulted by the audacity of the developers and i am surprised so many people would submit to this kind of treatment. it reminds me in many ways of the ugly foundation of spymac.com and macwhispers.com and leave a very bad taste in my mouth. and i wish the mac community was smart enough not to support the efforts of people like these who want nothing but to hurt the community for their own gain.

i think developers should be looking at what they can create to help the community not looking to see how they can exploit the community.



um, some guys built some software and your
screaming rape? i dont get it. your gonna freak
when you discover corporate america. these
guys put time and effort into their software...
if you dont want to pay cause you think you
can develope something better and cost you
less to build it on your own then go ahead.

i have to be missing something here.

anyway, dinner calls.

[DrGruv1]

donwloaded demo and was paying the reg. fee of $25 in five minutes...

it is a great deal and i would have paid more for these

-Michael

Greatly enhances the day to day use...

[AmbitiousLemon]

Originally posted by beatle888




um, some guys built some software and your
screaming rape? i dont get it. your gonna freak
when you discover corporate america. these
guys put time and effort into their software...
if you dont want to pay cause you think you
can develope something better and cost you
less to build it on your own then go ahead.

i have to be missing something here.

anyway, dinner calls.

you are missing a lot actually. but i doubt i should explain it to someone who can't even type a reply properly. get a clue.

[beatle888]

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon


you are missing a lto actually. but i doubt i should explain it to someone who can't even type a reply properly. get a clue.


ok you big bad mofo, you set me straight didnt you.
well i have to go have a valentines day...have fun:p :p :p :p :p

[DavisBAnimal]

I've had it up an running for maybe three days, and Konfab is already getting "oooohs" and "ahhhhs" from all my Windows using friends - one even swears that this is the straw that breaks the camel's back, and because of this program, he is now switching.

I don't know if it's THAT cool - I agree that the program is nowhere near its potential (and maybe not worth the $25) at least right now - but judging by the Forums at Konfabulator.com, that looks like it could change soon. One of the coolest ideas I have seen is a Caller ID "widget" (I apologize if that terminology offends some) where Konfab turns your mac into a digital answering machine - when a call comes through the number pops up in the widget - if the number's in your adress book a picture pops up with it - you could even have the possibility to redirect the call to your voice mail, block the caller etc. (Keep in mind none of these ideas are mine, I just saw them when I was poking around the Konfab forums).

In terms of the whole "they should have open sourced this" and "how dare they wait for other developers to expand the capabilities of this program" arguments against Konfabulator, I just have one question - don't these two statements cancel each other out?

I have little to no true understanding of software development, and have only a surface level understanding of the whole wonderful world of open source, etc. (and I may not be saying this as clearly as possible) but isn't this the whole concept of open source - you open up development of the program to the entire world of developers in the hopes that, as time progresses, a diversified product is formed from the ideas of many many people working in conjunction - bouncing ideas off of each other, etc.

Konfabulator has a very open source feel to it, at least from my perspective - the general mac user who at any moment can click on his little menu item and go to "Get More Widgets" in order to expand the capabilities of the program.

Davis

[AmbitiousLemon]

Originally posted by beatle888



ok you big bad mofo, you set me straight didnt you.
well i have to go have a valentines day...have fun:p :p :p :p :p

you people really bother me. why do you get angry with someone who trys to stand up for you? don't you see what these konfab people are doing? someone gets upset and spells it out and you act like a jerk. and btw stop hitting [return] at the end of every line!

maybe i can spell it out nice and simple for you.

what is konfab?
-the developers like to play cute and act like they don't know or that it is so great it can not be explained. konfab is a javascript plugin app allowing people to write javascript applications by using konfab's plugin architecture.

-what does konfab do? nothing. the functionality comes from the plugins that people write for it.

-how does the system work? you pay $25 for the app. you give this money to the people who wrote konfab. you get plugins for free on the konfab website. the konfab developers want you to share your plugins you write with them for free so that it makes konfab better.

essentailly what is going on is the konfab developers get paid for the efforts of other people. 'don't like konfab? you dirty nazi commie terrorist! write your own plugin then!' these is their anthem. why woudl i write software for a software company that will result in people giving money to them?

every plugin that you give the konfab people is free labor they get. if their app was freeware/opensource i wouldn't mind. but it isn't. they want to use the free and open community to make themselves so quick cash. it isn't fair and it is downright deceitful.

'you write software send it to us so we can make money off of it' - this is what they are doing.

and to make it worse they hyped it for months ahead of time. it is so much like spymac's start. hype for months unveil your deception and cash in.

if you want to give your money to people who didnt do any fo the work good for you. if you want to spend your time wirting software for someoneelse to get credit and moeny for good for you. i am a strong believer in the open source community and i find this a perversion of it — and therefore insulting.

[iGold]

I have a question. What happens when people start putting more time and effort into these widgets and start charging 5, 10, 15 bucks for them. Then all you have is a glorified shareware program. Unless some amazing things come from it, looks like a "middleman" program to me.

[mnkeybsness]

i think i'm going to have to agree with AmbitiousLemon here...

i think everyone that pays for konfabulator is getting screwed over.

-how does the system work? you pay $25 for the app. you give this money to the people who wrote konfab. you get plugins for free on the konfab website. the konfab developers want you to share your plugins you write with them for free so that it makes konfab better.

[janey]

can someone tell me why there are so many clock "widgets" for konfab?
Why can't people waste their time making something useful...right now konfab is a useless program.

[RBMaraman]

After reading all these posts, I have a few comments:

1. If you don't like the program, DON'T DOWNLOAD IT! Stop whining! If you don't like it, that's fine. Just don't b*tch about how YOU think it's bad.

2. I really like Konfabulator, and I think it's got a ton of potential. I had no problem forking over my $25. If the money helps them build a better and more useful program, great! That's exactly what I want.

3. The developers made this program to make money! If you don't like it, go write your own version. I get so pissed when people try to get something for free. Money is a huge part of life, DEAL WITH IT!

4. The developers are still writing widgets, so it's not like ONLY the users are writing the add-on's. Have you ever written anything in AppleScript? Have you ever used Terminal? OH MY GOD! You paid Apple for their software, and then you dared to use there programs to write something for yourself?! Come on people! Konfabulator is the same thing. Consider it a mini-OS, and the widgets are like free-ware. Somebody is paying the cost, and I don't mind supporting it.

[janey]

but you're talking about APPLE products. We wouldn't be b*tching about Apple products. It's the actual act of hyping Konfab and not delivering a "good" product when it comes out that makes me pissed. Anyone could just make anything like konfab and give it out for free...how possibly hard is it supposed to be to make something as dumb as konfab-and i dislike it so much right now that I deleted it. Happy?!

[springscansing]

Originally posted by mnkeybsness
i think i'm going to have to agree with AmbitiousLemon here...

i think everyone that pays for konfabulator is getting screwed over.



I agree with mnkeybsness and AmbitiousLemon. Konfabulator is a piece of junk. You pay 25 dollars to either make something yourself (duh), or hope that in the future someone else makes something that isn't a clock. I for one am not going to pay 25 dollars for nagware. Not to mention, immediately after installing Konfabulator, I received my first kernal panic ever under Jaguar. Lovely.

This software was hyped WAY too much, and only have about 1/10th the functionality that it was originally supposed to. Virtually every useful feature was dropped, even text fields. How inept are these programmers that they could not give us text fields? Would this seriously of taken months?

What turns me off the most is that it was hyped so much, then they sock you with a very high free for shareware (25 dollars!!), and then you download it and it doesn't even do ANYTHING useful. Not even anything pretty really!

I mean for god sakes, there's much more functionality with Stickies than there is with konfabulator.

Anyone who payed 25 dollars to basically develop "widgets" (stupid name) for people is insane. The developers are relying on people to make all the useful widgets for their software, which doesn't really do all that much except handle some javascript in a half-assed manner. Text fields? hello?

Now Kaleidoscope was similar in methodology, but at least that was fun, and wasn't hyped like some kind of god app when it came out. It seems the developers have a huge ego from all the people that praised them for making Kaleidoscope, which was basically software to mac your mac uglier, slower, and a LOT less stable.

*sigh* I'm very disappointed with the whole thing. Idiotic, and in very, very poor taste.

[springscansing]

Eeep.. one most too many. Wish we could delete our posts.

[springscansing]

Originally posted by übergeek
but you're talking about APPLE products. We wouldn't be b*tching about Apple products. It's the actual act of hyping Konfab and not delivering a "good" product when it comes out that makes me pissed. Anyone could just make anything like konfab and give it out for free...how possibly hard is it supposed to be to make something as dumb as konfab-and i dislike it so much right now that I deleted it. Happy?!

I'm with you. It lasted about 2 minutes on my system. I deleted it before I even realized I had to pay for it. I never even saw the nag screens. I deleted it assuming it was FREE.

That's how pointless it is. I mean.. a pictureframe widget!? If konfabulator can be made to do such great things, you'd think the developers themselves would have made it do at least ONE great thing!

[springscansing]

Originally posted by DavisBAnimal
I've had it up an running for maybe three days, and Konfab is already getting "oooohs" and "ahhhhs" from all my Windows using friends - one even swears that this is the straw that breaks the camel's back, and because of this program, he is now switching.

*sigh* I actually read somewhere, that since the iMac came out, the IQ of the average mac user dropped from 116 to 107, or something like that.

All this good looking stuff is making the mac users as a whole progressively more stupid.

I say OS XI should go back to the OS 9 way of viewing things. Like seriously... it was cleaner, easier to look at for hours on end, and faster.

What's this Aqua business? Why does my browser look like fake metal?

Why are people paying 25 bucks to put a giant faux digital clock on their desktop, when there is already a clock on the top-right of their screen?

Now if someone came out with an app that made OS X look and feel like OS 9, I would buy it. And no, I'm not some old freak who doesn't like change. I'm 18. But I do not like having to wait for dialog boxes to roll down from the drops of my windows, and for crazy genie action to finish before I can do something else.

In my opinion, Aqua is ugly. I thought it was so cool at first. I thought it was cool for months. But now that I am finally gearing up to switch to X for audio work, I realize the GUI is ugly when you have windows all over. There's dozens of drop-shadows, it gets so confusing! I guess I will have to deal with the excessive GUI candy to enjoy the benefits of Coreaudio.

I'd install something to remove the drop shadows, but the windows have no boarders, so they look even worse without drop shadows. And I do not want to use something to change the appearance of everything because so far, none of the OS X skinning apps work very well, and it tends to bring the system to its knees when you update the OS.

And... damnit, why are icons on my dock bouncing? XP might be fisher price, but OS X is like .. well .. I donno. Something better than fisher price though.

[janey]

for me it was the sheer number of pointless clock "widgets" and the actual design of the program that made me delete it. Oh and the fact that the code for konfab wasn't available (since I really like open source stuff).
There's also a clock you can put on your Dock-and it COMES WITH JAGUAR!!!

[springscansing]

Originally posted by übergeek
for me it was the sheer number of pointless clock "widgets" and the actual design of the program that made me delete it. Oh and the fact that the code for konfab wasn't available (since I really like open source stuff).
There's also a clock you can put on your Dock-and it COMES WITH JAGUAR!!!

I do not care about open-source or coding ethics or anything. If it did something I'd use it.

But it doesn't .. except cause kernal panics.

[springscansing]

Originally posted by RBMaraman
After reading all these posts, I have a few comments:

1. If you don't like the program, DON'T DOWNLOAD IT! Stop whining! If you don't like it, that's fine. Just don't b*tch about how YOU think it's bad.

2. I really like Konfabulator, and I think it's got a ton of potential. I had no problem forking over my $25. If the money helps them build a better and more useful program, great! That's exactly what I want.

3. The developers made this program to make money! If you don't like it, go write your own version. I get so pissed when people try to get something for free. Money is a huge part of life, DEAL WITH IT!

4. The developers are still writing widgets, so it's not like ONLY the users are writing the add-on's. Have you ever written anything in AppleScript? Have you ever used Terminal? OH MY GOD! You paid Apple for their software, and then you dared to use there programs to write something for yourself?! Come on people! Konfabulator is the same thing. Consider it a mini-OS, and the widgets are like free-ware. Somebody is paying the cost, and I don't mind supporting it.

People can express their opinions. I'm sure you've bashed microsoft before. Why not just not buy MS products if you do not like them? It's the same thing.

And money is not going to help build a better and more useful program. It's all the people making widgets getting paid nothing that make it a better program.

It's not like I have something against capitalism. I pay for stuff that is good. Money is nice. I'm fine with that. But I'm not going to pay for junk, and I want to voice my opinion before other people fork over money for this scam as well.

And Konfabulator is not a mini-OS, and have nothing in common with the Terminal or Applescript.. partly because the Terminal and Applescript are actually useful.

[janey]

sometimes you just gotta buy MS products because you have no choice.
the one useful thing konfab did during its short life on one of my Power Macs was the iTunes remote. It always said "AppleScript Error..."
I guess Konfab uses AppleScript...to imagine that such a crappy program uses AppleScript...

[RBMaraman]

Originally posted by springscansing


People can express their opinions. I'm sure you've bashed microsoft before. Why not just not buy MS products if you do not like them? It's the same thing.

And money is not going to help build a better and more useful program. It's all the people making widgets getting paid nothing that make it a better program.

It's not like I have something against capitalism. I pay for stuff that is good. Money is nice. I'm fine with that. But I'm not going to pay for junk, and I want to voice my opinion before other people fork over money for this scam as well.

And Konfabulator is not a mini-OS, and have nothing in common with the Terminal or Applescript.. partly because the Terminal and Applescript are actually useful.

Springscansing,

I respect your opinion's and I do agree with you on some of your points. You don't like Konfabulator, and that's fine. I just happen to think it's useful for me. I can use it to consolidate several small freeware applications that I used to run. So, instead of having 3 different programs running at once, I only have one. Plus, it doesn't slow down my G3, like running multiple programs does.

Once again, I appreciate you explaing your points of view. It's good that people see the pro's and con's of Konfabulator. And yes, I even admit that there are some con's to having it (though I didn't experience a kernal panic, thank God!).

[springscansing]

Originally posted by RBMaraman


Springscansing,

I respect your opinion's and I do agree with you on some of your points. You don't like Konfabulator, and that's fine. I just happen to think it's useful for me. I can use it to consolidate several small freeware applications that I used to run. So, instead of having 3 different programs running at once, I only have one. Plus, it doesn't slow down my G3, like running multiple programs does.

Once again, I appreciate you explaing your points of view. It's good that people see the pro's and con's of Konfabulator. And yes, I even admit that there are some con's to having it (though I didn't experience a kernal panic, thank God!).

Now that's what I call a gentleman! *big hug*

lol

[RBMaraman]

Originally posted by springscansing


Now that's what I call a gentleman! *big hug*

lol

Thank You! It's always nice when things can be settled in gentlemanly fashion. :)

Sorry to hear about your kernal panic. I've never had the pleasure of experiencing one. I consider myself to be pretty lucky. It seems like more and more people are experiencing them.

[Billicus]

Originally posted by RBMaraman

2. I really like Konfabulator, and I think it's got a ton of potential. I had no problem forking over my $25. If the money helps them build a better and more useful program, great! That's exactly what I want.


But that's just it. You are forking over $25 dollars to people who won't even be giving you the functionality you are seeking. The plug-ins for Konfabulator aren't even written by the team that made Konfabulator. It all smells fishy to me.:mad:

[DavisBAnimal]

Originally posted by springscansing


*sigh* I actually read somewhere, that since the iMac came out, the IQ of the average mac user dropped from 116 to 107, or something like that.



That last post was a bit off topic (I'm sure you recognize that) and I'm really hoping that quoted line up there isn't directed towards me, or my soon to be switcher friend, as a personal insult.

I'll go out on a limb and defend the program - and all the clocks.

First of all, as far as I can tell, it only downloads with two clocks - one analog, one digital. (I am aware of how many are on the wesbite). So far, the digital clock has been a big help for me - I wear glasses, and my Powerbook is the only clock I have in my room. Before Konfabulator I had a real tough time seeing the mini little clock in the menu bar when I didn't have my glasses on. Now all I have to do is roll over in bed in the morning, and look at the big thing and see what time it is immediately. Once someone writes in an Alarm Clock into this widget I will be evern more happy.

The picture frame is awesome, and original - I haven't seen any third party apps that do this. It's great for me to have a rotating frame of all my pictures - it adds in many ways to my computing experience.

The Calendar and Weather widgets are great as well - a quick and handy reference.

I realize that almost all of these functionalities are available as third party freeware apps (exception: Picture Frame). The way I see it, Konfabulator is, at best, a great way to intergrate all of your third-party freeware app functionality into one application. And this is a great thing. Konfabulator does for those small freeware applications what iLife does for the digital hub, and what the Offices and Appleworks do for office applications. You get all the little nit nack funtionality of those tiny apps you keep downloading from VersionTracker, or the AmbitiousLemon.com App of the Week, in visually pleasing packages that don't suck up space in the dock or menu bar.

If you don't need that sort of integration, or have no interest in that type of application, then Konfab will be a waste of money and time.

Complaining about an Application you don't like thats available as a free demo is a waste of time - it really helps no one and just brings a lot of unnecessary negativity to the forums. Arlo Rose (I think that's his name) and the Konfabulator team is not trying to rape the mac community or rip us off or ruin our computing lives. They put together a nice little environment they rightfully felt many people would enjoy and in the spirit of American Capitalism politley asked people to pay them for their efforts. Don't dehumanize them as monsters, I am sure they love the world of Apple more than most of us.

Thanks,
Davis

[janey]

the clock-you can just hack together something that magnifies the time.
the calendar-iCal.
the weather-always 3-20 degrees off

the IQ of the average mac user is soo low because most geniuses *cough cough my friends whose IQ's are upwards of 150* think that the ease of use factor is for sissies :rolleyes:
Besides, isn't 107 still average...that tells you something.

[shadowfax]

This has to be one of the coolest threads i have seen in a long time. i never realized there was so much controversy over konfabulator. i thought it was pretty cool at first. but after listening to ambitious lemon and springscansing, among other things. i am changing my mind slowly.

to put myself in perspective, i was one of the first to DL the program when it came out... i got it at about 2 AM central (i was bored and still up). i tried it, and, though i haven't deleted it, i only used it for about 3 minutes. then i went to deskmod and called my latest screenshot "konfabuless."

I think that "widget" is an ok word, and i appreciate the humor of making up words, like konfabulator. it has that lightheartedness that i just love about Winamp.

i have 2 parallels to konfabulator: an OS and winamp.

at first, i was thinking of Konfab more like an OS. i mean, what's the point of an OS? it's just a platform on which to do stuff. you're making a platform that other people can write stuff for. if no one wrote stuff for it, where would the OS go? some apps are free, and some are more elaborate and cost money. i thought that this could be kind of like konfabulator, but it really is MUCH more large scale, of course.

now i am thinking of it more in terms of winamp. you can do SO MUCH with wasabi and winamp, from an SD perspective. have you seen the skins they have for it? dang. Winamp is so cool--they have figured out how to get the internet art community to advertise their player with THE COOLEST skins of any app ever. this is what konfabulator is doing. it's just a way to make it easier for people to mod their desktop... winamp is free. winamp is much more elaborate than konfabulator. i just don't see how they can justify charging for it--at least not 25 bucks. they should have made it donationware or something, only without the stinking nags.

but objectively, AL, the rape thing was way way way too much. it is a free community. if they want to pay 25$... well, why not?

i like my menubar stuff. it takes up less space, can't get covered up, and is all free. FYI, i run meteorologist (quirky but OK), uptimeinmenubar, spy, and menumeter, just for the ram usage stats. i like having stuff on the menubar, because, hey, when was the last time you saw an app that had a menu that went that far across the screen. the right side of the menubar is totally empty without all that stuff:).

[springscansing]

Originally posted by übergeek
the clock-you can just hack together something that magnifies the time.
the calendar-iCal.
the weather-always 3-20 degrees off

the IQ of the average mac user is soo low because most geniuses *cough cough my friends whose IQ's are upwards of 150* think that the ease of use factor is for sissies :rolleyes:
Besides, isn't 107 still average...that tells you something.

Well I'm 165 and I have a dual 867. And my girl is 160-170 also, and she has.. well.. a 3400.

200mhz of pure diesel it is!

[DannyZR2]

just because

[springscansing]

Originally posted by DannyZR2
just because

Congrats, you've been reported to Mr. Moderator. I'm sure he'll appreciate the extra work.

Stop posting in multiple threads for no reason.

[Dunepilot]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
This has to be one of the coolest threads i have seen in a long time. i never realized there was so much controversy over konfabulator. i thought it was pretty cool at first. but after listening to ambitious lemon and springscansing, among other things. i am changing my mind slowly.

to put myself in perspective, i was one of the first to DL the program when it came out... i got it at about 2 AM central (i was bored and still up). i tried it, and, though i haven't deleted it, i only used it for about 3 minutes. then i went to deskmod and called my latest screenshot "konfabuless."

I think that "widget" is an ok word, and i appreciate the humor of making up words, like konfabulator. it has that lightheartedness that i just love about Winamp.

i have 2 parallels to konfabulator: an OS and winamp.

at first, i was thinking of Konfab more like an OS. i mean, what's the point of an OS? it's just a platform on which to do stuff. you're making a platform that other people can write stuff for. if no one wrote stuff for it, where would the OS go? some apps are free, and some are more elaborate and cost money. i thought that this could be kind of like konfabulator, but it really is MUCH more large scale, of course.

now i am thinking of it more in terms of winamp. you can do SO MUCH with wasabi and winamp, from an SD perspective. have you seen the skins they have for it? dang. Winamp is so cool--they have figured out how to get the internet art community to advertise their player with THE COOLEST skins of any app ever. this is what konfabulator is doing. it's just a way to make it easier for people to mod their desktop... winamp is free. winamp is much more elaborate than konfabulator. i just don't see how they can justify charging for it--at least not 25 bucks. they should have made it donationware or something, only without the stinking nags.

but objectively, AL, the rape thing was way way way too much. it is a free community. if they want to pay 25$... well, why not?

i like my menubar stuff. it takes up less space, can't get covered up, and is all free. FYI, i run meteorologist (quirky but OK), uptimeinmenubar, spy, and menumeter, just for the ram usage stats. i like having stuff on the menubar, because, hey, when was the last time you saw an app that had a menu that went that far across the screen. the right side of the menubar is totally empty without all that stuff:).

Shadowfax pretty well summed up what I was going to write after I'd finished reading this thread.

Ambitious Lemon - I used to respect the things that you wrote on MR, but you've got to be more responsible as a moderator. Using the word 'rape' to describe a semi-commercial product is completely inappropriate and the sort of thing that causes a lot of offence to a lot of people.

You don't like Konfabulator? Fine. Say you don't like Konfab, or the ethics behind their business model, or whatever. Don't call it 'rape'. It isn't rape.

If people like Konfabulator - which I do - they will buy the $25 license. It's the first thing I've seen in some time which has really added some fun/useful functionality to my desktop. It's this sort of thing that really will bring Windows users over, if they see it.


It may be that it survives from the goodwill and ingenuity of its users, but I know that I could go out and spend a lot of money and time learning javascript, and I'd rather not. I'd rather someone handed me a really cool little desktop app that gives me some useful feedback, as well as fun, and pay them for it. If I have one gripe it's that once I restarted, the iTunes control started misbehaving, and keeps trying to open the classic version of iTunes...?

[mnkeybsness]

see number three in the definition...


rape1 __ (_P_)__Pronunciation Key__(rp)
n.
1. The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse.


2. The act of seizing and carrying off by force; abduction.


3. Abusive or improper treatment; violation: a rape of justice.
- www.dictionary.com

i'm with you AL

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by mnkeybsness
see number three in the definition...



- www.dictionary.com

i'm with you AL

i think we all knew this. the dictionary has the various ways words can be used, but does little to help you with the connootation, though in this case, it's quite obvious--it conjures up some rather disturbing images for me, which is the intention of the word. if he had said "abuse" of the mac community, or something with a more moderate connotation, it would have been appropriate; as it is, he may as well have said that they are ****ing the mac community over. that has a pretty similar connotation. it was inappropriate.

[FatTony]

Sorry to get so off-topic.

I remember my freshman year in college. I was at a basketball game. I was very a very involved fan, to say the least. There was a point in the game were a player on my team was stripped of the ball in the paint. I thought a foul should have been called and the crowd generally agreed...except that I started yelling that he got raped. Someone pointed out to me that the word rape might not be the most appropriate one to use at that time, for something so trivial. I was, of course, very defensive and did not agree. I even went back to my dorm after the game and looked the word up in the dictionary. I felt vindicated because there were many differing definitions.

I realize now that rape is a very emotionally charged word and even though it has other possible definitions, everyone thinks of only one whenever they hear or see it used. I don't think anyone would use the word so casually if they knew what kind of pain it could cause.

I regret my immaturity in that situation, but I have learned from it. It is improtant to remember that this is a $25 shareware program. You can download it and try it before you pay the price. I'm not sure what the motivations of the authors are. Maybe they want to con every mac user out of $25, but even that is not as sinister and evil as rape.

[Santiago]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
I think that "widget" is an ok word, and i appreciate the humor of making up words, like konfabulator.

The reason people are complaining is that widget is already widely used to refer to any atomic GUI element, such as a close box, button, or scroll bar. Using it to refer to Konfabulator Applets is an abuse of terminology.

Regarding Konfabulator itself, I tried it, checked out most of the non-clock "widgets", removed all but the to-do list (which I can implement via a sticky anyway), and got rid of the whole thing after I rebooted from the 10.2.4 install and met the indestructible nag window. Regarding making it easy to put together Applets, it seems most people would rather make use of AppleScript studio, which combines an easy scripting language with a fully-featured GUI, and which is free for both developers and users. (I personally would just cobble together a Cocoa application.)

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Santiago
The reason people are complaining is that widget is already widely used to refer to any atomic GUI element, such as a close box, button, or scroll bar. Using it to refer to Konfabulator Applets is an abuse of terminology.

Yeah, widget wasn't the best idea. it gives you an inaccurate idea of what it does too--i was thrown off by it at first, thinking it was an app to customize themes yourself, having worked with the widgets in XP fooling around with an OS X theme for it. but after i realized what it was, i shirked it off (any offense at the terminology), i guess. i don't think that plugin is the best word for these "widdgets," but can't think of good a word for them--applets is definitely better than plugin. i was really more talking about "konfabulator;" it sounds so funny to me, somehow. it gives the whole thing a nice light tone, makes it sound fun.

i don't like the app enough to even use it if it were free right now, but i'll definitely see what the next version looks like in terms of features.

[Sayer]

A Fisking of AmbitiousLemon's rant. If you don't know what Fisking is, ask Google.

there are a lot f things wrong with konfab, but the worse is the price (and not just because it is $25)

Okay so please enumerate the reasons why you dislike Konfabulator. You indicate there are reasons other than price so lets get to em. Is there something wrong with the Shift key on your keyboard?

the developers have a lot fo audacity in my mind to spend months hyping an app that has no functionality.

Are the developers Gadget software passing off a CPU/RAM Turbocharger app again? No? From the website: "Konfabulator is a JavaScript runtime engine for Mac OS X that lets you run little files called Widgets that can do pretty much whatever you want them to. Widgets can be alarm clocks, calculators, can tell you your AirPort signal strength, will fetch the latest stock quotes for your preferred symbols, and even give your current local weather." How is this "no functionality"? It sounds quite extensible to me, using JavaScript no less. What a feat of programming that must have been!

all they did was create an environment which people can use to write cheap crappy little javascript apps for.

Ah you understand the software after all, and yet don't "get it." Why all the outrage then? Simply don't use the software. Simple.

And wasn't Konfabulator just released *last week*? How many third-party Mac OS X-native apps were there when v10.0.0 was released? And how many are there now? Mac OS X itself is an environment which people can use to write cheap crappy little Cocoa apps and costs way more than Konfabulator. So where is your outrage against Mac OS X?

but the worst of it is this: the want to charge you $25 to use the app (that does nothing) and then tell you to develop the functionality.


Okay you don't like the price tag because you fail to see any value in an open-ended development environment. We got it. The price tags for CodeWarrior ($399) and REALBasic (up to $350) must *really* make you mad, so mad you rip off the damn Shift key on your keyboard - both of em! What other issues do you have?

what kind of ass -backwards world do we live in where developers charge you to write their app for them?

Metrowerks and REAL Software probably have a good understanding of this world they live in. Its called the Free Market system/Capitalism. Look it up. The tagline on REAL Software's web site is "create your own software." That must REALLY torque you off!

now had the developers
1) open sourced their app
2) made their app freeware
3) provided plugins that do anything

So you would have liked this app if it were exactly the same, but open sourced and free of charge. And since they didn't have the time to think of and create the entire range of possible uses for their open-ended development environment it sucks ass.

What happened to your other reasons for hating this software? Is that it? Apple doesn't provide every possible solution to the needs of its users. Sometimes you have to actually go out and buy third-party software. How does this make you feel about owning an Apple computer that cost several thousand dollars?

maybe it would be an app worth talking about but i can't help feeling that they are just trying to rape the mac community.

So Arlo Rose is smashing his way into your house and forcibly inserting his software into your poor helpless Mac? No wonder you are so angry!

if the app was free and came with some free plugins and offered some shareware plugins it would make a lot more sense for developers to write their own. but as it is now the whole thing is backwards.


So basically your whole argument is that the software has a price tag? It's the price, stupid! And it doesn't come with pre-made plugins to do everything from check your email to butter your bread so it is absolutely useless! I didn't know it was mandatory to download and pay for Konfabulator and be stuck with a useless no-feature app occupying hard disk space.

o and one last thing. stop calling them widgets! can't believe a developer would use a word already used by the os and amc community for something else when there is already an accepted word for what they are creating. these are not widgets people! these are plugins.

widget. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000.
1. A small mechanical device or control; a gadget.

So how are they not widgets? Does Apple have a trademark on widgets to label to birghtness controls on Apple Cinema Displays? Where exactly is widget used by the "os" and "amc community" (the movie theater chain)? You gotta throw us a bone here, you are not making much sense. And why haven't you replaced the Shift key on your keyboard yet?

first you rape us then you try to confuse us by use computer terminology all wrong. hearing people talk about konfab widgets makes me think about just how stupid these developers are.

Ah so Arlo Rose and Co. are part of the Axis of Evil? They are no better than Hitler! Why they actually expect you to pay for a product they force on you with no pre-made widgets that you like! How dare anyone expect the end user to actually create something original by using their software (you know Word should come with every document I ever intend to make).

i need a pram and in lcd hard drive for my kernal to upload to the firewire protocol in time for my OS to optimize fully.

What? Now you are ranting incoherently. Perhaps you should talk to a rape crisis center. I have no idea what you just said but you apparently found the Shift key to use while typing "OS", finally.

if you want to invent a snappy name for something don't just confuse things by using something already in use otherwise you sound like an idiot.

Where is the confusion of terms other in your own head? What are your own snappy names then? Don't let your mouth write a check that your butt can't cash. Apple calls bundles plugins, and plugins bundles, and folders bundles if they have an extension, unless its .framework then they are frameworks. Is Apple raping the Mac community as well?

I missed your wide sweeping points of contention against this new software, other than its price and the name of of its add-on modules. So basically you sound like a cheap bastard who doesn't understand that software development environments are not and end unto themselves.

You are also accusing the authors of this software of "rape" without any connection to the reality we all live in. No one is forcing this software on anyone, especially people who see now value in it.

Do us all favor and take some Paxil and/or call a crisis center before you do any more damage to your self or your computer.

[chewbaccapits]

Nice post sayer but I'd like to say I can understand BOTH sides of this arguement. Good points were raised by both sides. Whats funny is that, these forums do 2 things;
1. Discussions spawn arguements; either in a mature or immature matter.
2. The people reading these discussions are the ones that would actually be swayed in thinking differently depending on the strenghts of the agruements.

With that said, I was beginning to agree with the non-supportive konfab peeps, but many of those post became a tad immature. I for one will go back and report AL's post back there.Why? As a moderator, you set tone and standard of the thread and this one became a little ugly for a bit.

[Dunepilot]

Originally posted by Sayer
A Fisking of AmbitiousLemon's rant. If you don't know what Fisking is, ask Google.



Okay so please enumerate the reasons why you dislike Konfabulator. You indicate there are reasons other than price so lets get to em. Is there something wrong with the Shift key on your keyboard?



Are the developers Gadget software passing off a CPU/RAM Turbocharger app again? No? From the website: "Konfabulator is a JavaScript runtime engine for Mac OS X that lets you run little files called Widgets that can do pretty much whatever you want them to. Widgets can be alarm clocks, calculators, can tell you your AirPort signal strength, will fetch the latest stock quotes for your preferred symbols, and even give your current local weather." How is this "no functionality"? It sounds quite extensible to me, using JavaScript no less. What a feat of programming that must have been!



Ah you understand the software after all, and yet don't "get it." Why all the outrage then? Simply don't use the software. Simple.

And wasn't Konfabulator just released *last week*?

etc etc etc

You are also accusing the authors of this software of "rape" without any connection to the reality we all live in. No one is forcing this software on anyone, especially people who see now value in it.

Do us all favor and take some Paxil and/or call a crisis center before you do any more damage to your self or your computer.

Aaaargh. Step away from the pedantry;)

But yes, AL is wrong on this. I just wouldn't/couldn't have written such a long-winded response!;)

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Sayer

widget. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000.
1. A small mechanical device or control; a gadget.

So how are they not widgets? Does Apple have a trademark on widgets to label to birghtness controls on Apple Cinema Displays? Where exactly is widget used by the "os" and "amc community" (the movie theater chain)? You gotta throw us a bone here, you are not making much sense. And why haven't you replaced the Shift key on your keyboard yet?


Originally posted by Santiago
The reason people are complaining is that widget is already widely used to refer to any atomic GUI element, such as a close box, button, or scroll bar. Using it to refer to Konfabulator Applets is an abuse of terminology.

I thought you generally had a good series of arguments, but you really make a fool of yourself if you don't read entire threads.

widgets are a generally accepted term in the computer theming community that refer to buttons on windows. yes, these are gadgets as much as konfabulator, but it honestly does muddy the waters for the term as it relates to computers. sure, it's not some kind of copyright violation, but AL was just going off on how it is irresponsible for them to use that term. i think he has a point, though i agree that you have to take everything he said with a grain of salt, and at the end of the day, it was WAY out of line.

I brought up the operating system parallel you used earlier; i hardly think it's valid. you are talking about literally millions of lines more code. it's a 2 GB installation localized in like hundreds of languages. It drives a wide variety of hardware, and right out of the box does thousands of things, like... chatting on the net, video editing, music playing, using the internet... there is no obvious comparison between Konfabulator and OS X that would justify charging for it based on the fact that people pay 129$.

about the "amc" community. go here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19747) before you do that again. we all understand he meant mac community. it's a logical fallacy to berate your opponent and consider that arguing him down. for instance, saying "george bush is stupid" in no way refutes an argument for his economic policies. it's bad etiquette.

[RBMaraman]

Originally posted by Shadowfax

widgets are a generally accepted term in the computer theming community that refer to buttons on windows. yes, these are gadgets as much as konfabulator, but it honestly does muddy the waters for the term as it relates to computers. sure, it's not some kind of copyright violation, but AL was just going off on how it is irresponsible for them to use that term. i think he has a point, though i agree that you have to take everything he said with a grain of salt, and at the end of the day, it was WAY out of line.


I've never heard the word "widget" refer to anything about computers until I checked out the Konfabulator website. I wasn't aware that "widget" refered to some kind of theming. So, I went and asked some of my computer science/programming friends what they thought the word "widget" refered to. The majority said that it refers to some kind of gadget. One person said that he heard someone call buttons on windows "widgets", but most people usually just call buttons "buttons." Just thought I'd share some findings....If anyone cares. :)

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by RBMaraman
I've never heard the word "widget" refer to anything about computers until I checked out the Konfabulator website. I wasn't aware that "widget" refered to some kind of theming. So, I went and asked some of my computer science/programming friends what they thought the word "widget" refered to. The majority said that it refers to some kind of gadget. One person said that he heard someone call buttons on windows "widgets", but most people usually just call buttons "buttons." Just thought I'd share some findings....If anyone cares. :)

yes, but talk to people who make themes (the theming community) and you will find that widget is recognized as a term referring to what Santiago said. point taken though, the theming community is rather small (compared to the computer user base at large).