Just visited a BMW dealership. Very unsatisfied!

[anubis]

Hey all. You might remember me as the guy who's about to start a new job and is looking to spend about $45,000 on a new car. The cars I'm considering are the Lexus ES350, IS350, and GS300, the BMW Z4 and 330i, the Acura TL, the Infiniti G35, and the Mercedes C350.

Well, I went out today and spend some time at two dealerships: Hoy-Fox Lexus of El Paso and BMW of El Paso.


I'll start off with the good. First off, let me just say that I do look very young. I'm only 22 and probably look 20. I don't have Franklins falling out of every pocket. So, I think it would be really easy for any salesperson to look at me and think, "This clown's a GS-1 and is just going to waste my time." But from the moment I stepped foot inside the Lexus dealership, they treated me like royalty. The salesperson I had made an appointment with wasn't immediately available, but they repeatedly appologized and offered me and the friend I was with free water and sodas.

Then the salesman came out and he was an all-around classy guy. I explained to him that I was just graduating and that I wasn't going to buy a new car for at least a couple of months. He assured me that would be no problem. I told him I wanted to look at an ES350. He spent several minutes asking me detailed questions about what I'm looking for in a car. Then, we went out to the car. He got in the driver's seat and started the car to get the air conditioner going. Then we sat there for half an hour and showed me EVERYTHING in the car. He gave me a tutorial on the navigation system and pointed out and showed me every last detail about every function and gadget inside the car. He made sure I didn't have any questions. Then he drove it for about 15 minutes, letting me really feel what the car was like as far as smoothness and quietness. Then he pulled over and let me drive it for about 15 minutes. He encouraged me to floor it and really test the vehicle out. Then when we got back, he showed me many consumer reports magazines which rated Lexus as a brand much higher than other luxury brands. He also pointed out that the ES350 was a "recommended buy" according to Consumer Reports, while Mercedes had no "recommended buys". He also pointed out that BMW and Mercedes were much worse in terms of reliability and maintainence costs. In fact, he showed me a Consumer Reports chart which had Mercedes listed DEAD LAST in terms of "Number of problems per 100 vehicles that needed service". Lexus was of course rated first. Then, he let me leave the dealership without any pressure to buy the vehicle. All in all, I've decided Lexus is a classy outfit that makes a quality product. The things I liked about the ES350 were the smoothness, quietness, and perfection of the interior design. The things I didn't like about the ES350 were relatively low power (275hp V6, but automatic transmission and the car is huge anyway), the sluggish handling (it felt like I was driving an elephant), and the fact that it looks like they glued 800 pounds of useless trim on the outside.

Then I went to the BMW dealership. As soon as I walked in, a "service" man asked me what I was doing. I told him I had made an appointment over the phone to test drive a Z4. He asked me who I talked to. I told him I didn't remember. He gave me a REALLY DIRTY look and was like "OOOK, you don't remember. whatever." and rolled his eyes. Then he was like "OK, i'll find you someone" in a really demeaning and negative tone. Then he came back (with no salesperson) and asked what I had in my hand. I told him I had printed out a checklist of attributes so that I could write down details about each car for later reference and to remind me about the details of each car. Again, he gave me a really dirty look and was like "OOOOOOK". So, I turned to my friend and was like "dude, that guy's being a dick" and he agreed with me. Then the salesman finally came out. You know "honest Gil" on the Simpsons? This dude looked AND ACTED exactly like him. He said it was his second day on the job. He literally knew nothing about the Z4. I had to explain to him what the premium package was, and he had no idea how to operate anything on the interior of the car. A very short 5 minute test drive later, I was back at the dealership.

Well, because the Z4 is a two-seater, I couldn't take my friend with me, so he went and sat in a couch in the dealership to watch some TV. Well, I guess the "service" guy who was so rude to me earlier must have overheard me calling him a dick. So he must not have seen my friend sitting in the couch and my friend actually told me he overheard the following: "Can you believe that guy called me a dick? He's the dick! Who does he think he is coming in here with a checklist? That's what I'm here for! He's supposed to ask me questions! I ****ing hate these college pricks who come in here looking for a new car. They think they're hot ****. And what's the deal with his little buddy? He had to bring his little friend along?". At that point, my friend stood up and was like "WHO, YOU MEAN ME?". Then the guy was like "ooh, well, yeah. Where do you get off calling me a dick? You should tell your little buddy that he's ****ing stupid for bringing a checklist into a car dealership." Then, according to my friend, the guy started approaching him like he wanted to start a fight! All of this trash talking actually happened in front of other customers too, who apparently also walked out. Then finally, a manager must have seen the commotion and took the "service" guy by the shoulders and escorted him out of the building. At that moment, I walked in from my brief test drive. I talked to the sales person and the manager about colors for about 2 minutes, and that was it. They didn't tell me ANYTHING about the reliability of the car, or how it compared to other vehicles, or ask me if I was satisfied with the car. Furthermore, they didn't once offer me or my friend an appology for the behavior of the service guy.

Overall, I am EXTREMELY disappointed in the service at BMW. When I go into a luxury car dealership, I expect to be treated like royalty. I might expect that kind of behavior out of a Hyundai dealership, but not a premium brand. I'm the customer; if I want to bring in a checklist, that's my business! If I want to call a service guy a dick because he was treating me like trash, that's also my business! It reeks of unprofessionalism for them to treat a customer that way, whether he's 20 or 50. They're smoking dope if they think I'm going to spend $45k on a new car after the way they treated me and my friend. If today was any indication of how they treat their customers, I want nothing to do with BMW. It's a shame too, because I really liked the Z4.

So, ignoring the cars, let's compare service. The Lexus dealership treated me like a king. The salesman was very knowledgeable, professional, and courteous. He took the time to really get to know me and to let me get to know him and the vehicle. The BMW dealership treated me like trash, like the lowest form of life on Earth. The salesman was clueless, and the service department was utterly rude, disrespectful, and unprofessional. If I had to pick a car based on how they treat their customers, BMW would be lower than Hyundai.

[mkrishnan]

I'd suggest it's good to not over-generalize, but it sounds like you had a really awful experience at that BMW dealer.... :( I have actually been to fair BMW dealers. Lexus does a fairly nice job with their dealerships, though, in all fairness.

[2nyRiggz]

Wished i had a BMW :(


Bless

[jsw]

Keep in mind that, while it's nice to be treated well, you'll never see the sales guy again and will work only with the service department. If you're graduating and moving out of town, it'll be a different service department than the one there. On the other hand, you'll be in the car you buy more or less every single day. Buy the car you want, not the dealership (but check out the service departments).

[atszyman]

Keep in mind that, while it's nice to be treated well, you'll never see the sales guy again and will work only with the service department. If you're graduating and moving out of town, it'll be a different service department than the one there. On the other hand, you'll be in the car you buy more or less every single day. Buy the car you want, not the dealership (but check out the service departments).

Beware of that situation with BMWs though. One of my coworker's wives got an X5. They've been in and out for service roughly every month since they've had it. They've complained to BMW corporate who won't do anything since dealerships are independently owned, the service department makes excuses since the car wasn't bought at that dealership, and the original dealership claims that the problems wouldn't be happening if they had been bringing it there for service (they live approximately 4 hours away). After watching this for the past couple years I've convinced myself that we will never buy a BMW. I'd stick to Acura or Lexus.

[imac9556]

Yeah, Lexus dealership in Kansas City (Superior Lexus) treats everyone with respect and like a king. The salesman and service people are extremely helpful and nice. I would recommend Lexus for reliablity and service. My family has a 1999 Lexus RX300 and drive 100,000miles+ on it. It still works perfectly and no problems.

[yg17]

Hey, now don't stereotype, my Hyundai dealership treats me like royalty....maybe it's because we've bought 3 cars from them in less than 2 years, but even before buying the second car, I was treated very well :p


Anyways, I wouldn't neccesarily blame BMW, I would blame the dealer (as they're independently owned and operated). It's like blaming Sony because the guy at Best Buy who sold you a Sony TV was a prick. Although contacting BMW certainly wouldn't hurt, as they have the final say as to whether or not the dealer can sell BMWs in the first place, and if they get enough complaints, I'm sure BMW would do something. If you're still interested in the Z4 (which you should be, it's a freaking Z4 :D), you should try another BMW dealer in the area, maybe you'll have better luck.

[anubis]

Hey, now don't stereotype, my Hyundai dealership treats me like royalty....maybe it's because we've bought 3 cars from them in less than 2 years, but even before buying the second car, I was treated very well :p


Anyways, I wouldn't neccesarily blame BMW, I would blame the dealer (as they're independently owned and operated). It's like blaming Sony because the guy at Best Buy who sold you a Sony TV was a prick. Although contacting BMW certainly wouldn't hurt, as they have the final say as to whether or not the dealer can sell BMWs in the first place, and if they get enough complaints, I'm sure BMW would do something. If you're still interested in the Z4 (which you should be, it's a freaking Z4 :D), you should try another BMW dealer in the area, maybe you'll have better luck.

You bring up a very good point. I'm probably going to try the BMW dealership in Tucson to see if it's any better. I'm also going to call the managment at the El Paso dealership tomorrow to tell them that they need to get their service personel under control because it cost them a sale today. Nothing will probably be done about it, but that's ok, I'm never going back there ever again.

And, sorry for stereotyping Hyundai. The new Sonata V6 is actually quite a respectable vehicle and I know they're reliable. It's just easiest to pick on Hyundai. Or maybe I should have gone for Kia. ;)

[yg17]

Haha, don't worry....I'm used to taking **** for driving a Hyundai :D

[anubis]

Haha, don't worry....I'm used to taking **** for driving a Hyundai :D

We all know the important part is that you have a Powermac. Everything else is tertiary.

[yg17]

Also, if you don't mind me asking, and feel free to not answer, but what sort of job do you have and what kind of salary are you making to be able to afford such a nice car right out of college?

I'm graduating in 2 years and the average starting salary for my major (MIS/IT) is in the mid 40k range, and there's nothing I want to do more than buy a nice car (I'm thinkin A4) once I graduate, but I have no idea if a mid 40 salary will allow me to buy a $35k car (i'd finance of course). Just kinda curious to see if my ideal graduation present to myself is a reality or a dream.

[anubis]

Also, if you don't mind me asking, and feel free to not answer, but what sort of job do you have and what kind of salary are you making to be able to afford such a nice car right out of college?

I'm graduating in 2 years and the average starting salary for my major (MIS/IT) is in the mid 40k range, and there's nothing I want to do more than buy a nice car (I'm thinkin A4) once I graduate, but I have no idea if a mid 40 salary will allow me to buy a $35k car (i'd finance of course). Just kinda curious to see if my ideal graduation present to myself is a reality or a dream.


I started another thread a few days ago asking for peoples' inputs on various models of cars, and I explained it there. But because I don't feel like searching for it, and i'm not a jerk who would just tell you to find it yourself, i'll go ahead and retype it ;)

This saturday I'm graduating from New Mexico State with a bachelor's degree in electrical engineering. After many, many unsuccessful interviews, I got two job offers. One was with the government and it paid $50,449/yr. The second was with Raytheon in Tucson and it pays $61k/year starting base salary plus $3k signing bonus with yearly salary increases. I calculated that after state and federal taxes, rent, utilities, insurance, gas, groceries, parking tolls, health insurance, clothes, and 401(k) contribution, my extra spendable cash each month will be $1,566. A $45k car with $4k down payment would cost less than $800/month with a standard 60-month loan at 7%. That's half of my extra spendable cash each month. I figure I could spend half of the remaining half on going out, electronics, etc. and the other half of the remaining half would go into a savings account for an eventual down payment on a house.

[jsw]

Best of luck with it all!

My brother works in Tucson as a thermal engineer for Raytheon and likes it - he's been there almost 10 years.

Edit: and in Tucson, you do not want a black car. White, silver, something reflective.

[yg17]

I started another thread a few days ago asking for peoples' inputs on various models of cars, and I explained it there. But because I don't feel like searching for it, and i'm not a jerk who would just tell you to find it yourself, i'll go ahead and retype it ;)

This saturday I'm graduating from New Mexico State with a bachelor's degree in electrical engineering. After many, many unsuccessful interviews, I got two job offers. One was with the government and it paid $50,449/yr. The second was with Raytheon in Tucson and it pays $61k/year starting base salary plus $3k signing bonus with yearly salary increases. I calculated that after state and federal taxes, rent, utilities, insurance, gas, groceries, parking tolls, health insurance, clothes, and 401(k) contribution, my extra spendable cash each month will be $1,566. A $45k car with $4k down payment would cost less than $800/month with a standard 60-month loan at 7%. That's half of my extra spendable cash each month. I figure I could spend half of the remaining half on going out, electronics, etc. and the other half of the remaining half would go into a savings account for an eventual down payment on a house.

Congrats on the job. I figure if I'm making less than you, but buying a cheaper car, I should be able to do it :D. Granted, I don't know any actual figures, where I'd be living, and taxes.


May 2008 can't get here soon enough.

[Counterfit]

Well, I'm pretty sure the same kind of disparity wouldn't exist at the Lexus (http://inskip.com/) and BMW (http://inskip.com/) dealerships in RI.

[yg17]

Well, I'm pretty sure the same kind of disparity wouldn't exist at the Lexus (http://inskip.com/) and BMW (http://inskip.com/) dealerships in RI.


Or at Plaza (http://plazamotors.com/) in St. Louis.

[aquajet]

Overall, I am EXTREMELY disappointed in the service at BMW. When I go into a luxury car dealership, I expect to be treated like royalty. I might expect that kind of behavior out of a Hyundai dealership, but not a premium brand.

You shouldn't expect this from any dealership, Hyundai, BMW or Lambo. It's simply bad business.

If you're serious about the BMW, venture out a bit further and look for a better dealership.

I would have written a letter to the local paper myself... :mad:

[4God]

Wished i had a BMW :(


Bless


Wish I had a Lexus :(

[savar]

Hey all. You might remember me as the guy who's about to start a new job and is looking to spend about $45,000 on a new car. The cars I'm considering are the Lexus ES350, IS350, and GS300, the BMW Z4 and 330i, the Acura TL, the Infiniti G35, and the Mercedes C350.

you can't blame the dealer's shortcomings on the manufacturer.

but out of those cars i'd go with the acura or infiniti. i really like bmw but those two cars are really nice, and the acura is extremely reliable. if you want a sportier car than the TL acura has the rsx and tsx which are kinda cool.

[Mike Teezie]

That's a shame.

For what it's worth, the best customer service I've ever had in my life was from the local BMW dealership.

The guy who sold me my car called me every couple of months at home to make sure I was still enjoying it. He had the same car, and would ask me if I liked this or that, was impressed with the handling, etc.

[devilot]

I drive a 2004 MINI cooper S. So I get treated like a second class citizen any time I need to go into a certain BMW dealership *cough*allisonbmw*cough*. Yup. I made an appointment 9 weeks in advance (they were all booked :rolleyes: ), brought my car in before they even opened, and by 4PM still hadn't received a phone call. Mind you, this was to figure out why my hatch would close, but the light would still say it was open. I phone in at 4:30PM and they tell me that they haven't even looked at my car yet and they'd keep it over night and check it out the next day. WTF. Why did I bother making an appointment and bringing it in so early, then? Hmph. So I just said I'd pick my car up.

That's why, instead of a mere 20 minute drive, I go wayyyyy out of my way, about a 45 minute drive to a different, and much better dealership *EastBay MINI/BMW*. It's a heck of a drive, but honestly, the service is so much better.

[calyxman]

Don't take it personally, but to come fresh out of college and purchase a luxury automobile, even if you could afford the monthly payment, would not seem the prudent thing to do. But hey, it's your money so all the power to you.

[pseudobrit]

So, ignoring the cars, let's compare service.

Ignore the cars?

You buying the car or a salesman?

Of course you got treated like a king at the Lexus dealer and of course they showed you nice reviews of their product. That's their job. The BMW dealer didn't do their job. Well, that's part of their job. First they sell you on the product and then they go about trying to separate you from as much of your money as they can.

I still say 330 or G35 are your best bets, especially because you can row your own gears. Slushbox saps the fun out of driving. If you can afford a $45k car you can afford to take care of it. If you can't budget $1500/yr for repairs and maintenance once it's out of warranty get a cheaper car.

[iGary]

While I'll admit that people with Consumer Reports magazines, checklists and things of that sort tucked under their arm used to really get on my tits when I sold cars in a previous life, I never led on to the fact...you should write a letter to BMW USA in regards to how you were treated.

Definitely mention the silver platter service you got at Lexus, too.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Your Hyundai remarks is hard for me to fathom, my wife just bought a new Elanatra and it was the best new car experience we have ever had. Hyundai was terrific,no hard sales push,knowledgeable and gave us a great deal and my wife just loves her Elantra. 10 yr powertrain warranty, Had to say this. Plus iI love the car.

[Zeke]

I have to agree. One of the biggest mistakes new grads make is buying an expensive car. Someone once pointed out a very nice way to compare stuff like this for me. You have two cars sitting next to each other. One a (choose your luxury car for 45k), the other a Hyundai (nice, reliable, 20k). Which do you choose? Oh, we forgot to mention that the 20k car comes with $40,000 in cash in the driver seat. Now which do you prefer?

If you look at the big picture, the amount you lose in depreciation, interest (at 7%) and loss of earnings on your money from not investing are enormous. This is the only time of your life that you're used to living like a college student and can thus put away a large amount of money into savings...take advantage. Live cheaply the first year or two and invest. You'll be sitting pretty in a few years.

Don't take it personally, but to come fresh out of college and purchase a luxury automobile, even if you could afford the monthly payment, would not seem the prudent thing to do. But hey, it's your money so all the power to you.

[iGary]

I have to agree. One of the biggest mistakes new grads make is buying an expensive car. Someone once pointed out a very nice way to compare stuff like this for me. You have two cars sitting next to each other. One a (choose your luxury car for 45k), the other a Hyundai (nice, reliable, 20k). Which do you choose? Oh, we forgot to mention that the 20k car comes with $40,000 in cash in the driver seat. Now which do you prefer?

If you look at the big picture, the amount you lose in depreciation, interest (at 7%) and loss of earnings on your money from not investing are enormous. This is the only time of your life that you're used to living like a college student and can thus put away a large amount of money into savings...take advantage. Live cheaply the first year or two and invest. You'll be sitting pretty in a few years.

I got out of the car phase. Use to have an uber expensive Acura, and then was like - uh, this really is a waste. So I got a four-door Honda Civic (sorry, iGav) and paid for it so I have no monthly payments. 100,000 miles later it still gets me to where I'm going. :D

[pseudobrit]

I have to agree. One of the biggest mistakes new grads make is buying an expensive car. Someone once pointed out a very nice way to compare stuff like this for me. You have two cars sitting next to each other. One a (choose your luxury car for 45k), the other a Hyundai (nice, reliable, 20k). Which do you choose? Oh, we forgot to mention that the 20k car comes with $40,000 in cash in the driver seat. Now which do you prefer?

If you look at the big picture, the amount you lose in depreciation, interest (at 7%) and loss of earnings on your money from not investing are enormous. This is the only time of your life that you're used to living like a college student and can thus put away a large amount of money into savings...take advantage. Live cheaply the first year or two and invest. You'll be sitting pretty in a few years.

Nice argument. Were I in this situation, I'd save for a year and pay cash for a car. I'd buy something nice, small and reliable for around $20,000. With some of the leftover cash I'd buy a classic roadster for fun.

Life is better when you specialize.

[mchendricks]

I'll throw my 2 cents in since I went through the same process. At the end of last year, I went looking at the Volvo S40, Lexus IS250, BMW 330, MB C230, and Audi A4. After test drives, I thought I was getting the Lexus IS 250 from Lexus of Melbourne (FL). I put a deposit down for the car and the dealer told me he would let me know the next day when my car would arrive. He didn't call back for several days and had no news when he called. I stopped by a few days later and he still didn't have news. I waited a couple of days and stopped by again. This time, he was paying HIS bills for X-mas. He hadn't checked yet after 1 week. I told him I would look at other dealers. He said "Go ahead. If you find something you want there, we'll give you your money back."

I drove to an Acura dealer to look at the TL. I test drove one and that was it. I ended up with a 2006 TL. I love the car and don't regret the decision to buy it. The best thing about buying it was that you don't get "optioned" to death. Interior and exterior color choices, manual or auto, navigation or not are the basic choices - everything else was standard. Great way to sell a car.

Overall, the Volvo and BMW dealer were okay. The MB/Audi dealer was probably the best, too bad the cars aren't that reliable The Acura dealer was very good. The Lexus dealer was a snob that didn't seem to be interested in selling me a car -"take it or leave it". They make very nice cars but they lost a customer for life.

I'd look very hard at the Acura TL (or RL) if you get a chance.

Good luck,
Mike

[yg17]

I'm not sure I see what's so wrong about buying a nice car right out of college if you can afford it with plenty of money left over. Not sure if this part applies to him, but if he's meeting clients, it would look a lot better to pull up in a BMW or Lexus than in whatever he's driving now (being a college student, I'm assuming it's on the lower end of things).

For me at least, if I have to meet people, what will I look better in? My Hyundai Tiburon (a nice car, but being a sporty 2 door, plus with a few mods done to it, it makes me look like a kid) or a luxury car?

[ejb190]

Treat a customer well and they will tell 10 of their friends...
Treat a customer poorly and they will tell 100 strangers...

I totally agree with calyxman and Zeke. It took me six years after college to put myself in a position to buy a house and I didn't get there by buying new cars. My Saturn will have to do for a few more years until I can build up some more savings.

Speaking of Saturn, I have dealt with two different dealers have noticed a real difference in the service departments when I get my car worked on. One dealer would do exactly what I asked them to do. The other would look up my records and notify me of scheduled maintenance, sweep my car out, and generally work harder at customer service.

[pseudobrit]

I'm not sure I see what's so wrong about buying a nice car right out of college if you can afford it with plenty of money left over. Not sure if this part applies to him, but if he's meeting clients, it would look a lot better to pull up in a BMW or Lexus than in whatever he's driving now (being a college student, I'm assuming it's on the lower end of things).

For me at least, if I have to meet people, what will I look better in? My Hyundai Tiburon (a nice car, but being a sporty 2 door, plus with a few mods done to it, it makes me look like a kid) or a luxury car?

OP's an EE.

I'd look at newer used cars too. The luxury segment takes a walloping depreciation in the first 3-5 years. I mean it's two or three times worse than any other segment, which is usually bad enough.

It's great way to burn $30,000 in 3 years.

[Zeke]

OP's an EE.

I'd look at newer used cars too. The luxury segment takes a walloping depreciation in the first 3-5 years. I mean it's two or three times worse than any other segment, which is usually bad enough.

It's great way to burn $30,000 in 3 years.

Definitely...

Just because he can afford it doesn't mean he SHOULD buy one. Granted, it's his money but the best thing you can do is invest a large amount of money as soon as possible. So if it's a decision between losing a lot of money, or making a lot of money, the smart decision is usually going to be making it.

There's no guarantee he'll have a job in a year, and he'll have this expensive car that's depreciated significantly so he'll be upside down and no savings to live on because he's spent $5k on a down payment...in any case, as pseudobrit said, buying a nice used car can be a great alternative. Depreciation will be much less and you can still get a great car.

[Sutekidane]

I'd take a Hyundai over a BMW or Lexus any day.

[bartelby]

I remember walking into a Porsche showroom a few years back with a friend. Both of us wearing shorts and t-shirts, my mate has both arms tattooed.
The sales guy rolled his eyes and said "I'm sorry lads..." he then noticed my friends Breitling. His attitude totally changed. "you have a fine timepiece there sir, if I may say so" he then was very attentive for an hour showing us all the cars in there.

That same day we went into a BMW showroom and were ignored for 30 minutes despite us being the only ones there. The staff just kept staring at us from a distance, when we looked at them they pretended to be doing something. When my mate opened the door of a 5 series and sat in it a guy can over and asked us to leave.

The final visit of the day was to a Lotus dealers. As soon as we walked in we were offered drinks the guy was fantastic. My mate left his car, watch and passport when they let us take an Exige for a test drive.

[Black&Tan]

Regardless of who you buy the car from, you'll be seeing the service center regularly for tune-ups and periodic maintenance. If they treat YOU like an ass, then I would hate to think how they treat your car.

One of the best relationships you can make in life is with an honest mechanic....

[devilot]

Regardless of who you buy the car from, you'll be seeing the service center regularly for tune-ups and periodic maintenance. If they treat YOU like an ass, then I would hate to think how they treat your car.That comparison is faulty. The last time I checked, cars don't really say rude things. Having worked retail sales, I'd rather be w/ inanimate objects than deal w/ potentially rude/ irate customers. That said, I agree w/ you, check out the service center and see how they treat you.
One of the best relationships you can make in life is with an honest mechanic....Sigh. Gotta find me one of those. :p

[virividox]

good luck with getting a car, but as a soon to be grauduate as well, i would save some cash and get a 20k car instead of a 40k

investing 20k in a mutual fund is a good idea.

[joepunk]

I remember walking into a Porsche showroom a few years back with a friend. Both of us wearing shorts and t-shirts, my mate has both arms tattooed.
The sales guy rolled his eyes and said "I'm sorry lads..." he then noticed my friends Breitling. His attitude totally changed. "you have a fine timepiece there sir, if I may say so" he then was very attentive for an hour showing us all the cars in there.

That same day we went into a BMW showroom and were ignored for 30 minutes despite us being the only ones there. The staff just kept staring at us from a distance, when we looked at them they pretended to be doing something. When my mate opened the door of a 5 series and sat in it a guy can over and asked us to leave.

The final visit of the day was to a Lotus dealers. As soon as we walked in we were offered drinks the guy was fantastic. My mate left his car, watch and passport when they let us take an Exige for a test drive.Could I borrow your friends watch :p

[SpookTheHamster]

I own a BMW, and while it may not be top-of-the-line (it's a 1502 :D), my local dealership treats me like a piece of crap if I ever call. It doesn't help that most of the staff don't know enough to even know my car exists: "What model is it Sir?"
"It's a 1502"
"No Sir, that's the engine size"
"No it isn't, it's a 1502, BMW don't make ANY cars with engines that size" etc.

On the other hand, my sister works for Lexus GB customer services. As an example of the service you'd receive, if your car is ever called in for a recall, Lexus will also give the car a full valet clean, top up the fluids and give you a bottle of champagne.

The other good thing about Lexus is that (in the UK at least) if you have a problem with a dealer you can go to Lexus about it, and Lexus will call the dealer to tell them to stop being an ass.

Also, if you go for a German car, be prepared to fork out at least twice as much on parts. My BMW dealer asks for an average of SIX times more for the same parts as an independent BMW specialist.

[mrichmon]

Your experience at BMW matches the experience I had at 5 different BMW dealers in the SF Bay Area when I was in the market for a BMW 3 series or Mercedes C-coupe a couple of years back. The main difference is that you had a BMW sales person speak to you. At 4 out of 5 BMW dealerships I went to my girlfriend and I spent at least an hour and usually closer to 2 hours at each dealership trying to get service from someone before giving up.

At the one dealership that we could get someone to talk to us, we took a stick shift 3 series on a very short test drive. Part-way through the drive my girlfriend started driving and since she hadn't driven stick for a few years her shifts were not completely smooth. But the car didn't lurch or stall, they were just not perfect shifts. The salesman turned to her and said "it's easier for a woman to drive an automatic" in a condescending tone. We returned to the dealership and just walked away.

A week later we ordered two cars from our Mercedes dealership and have been extremely happy with the cars and the pre- and post-sale service we get from Mercedes Benz.

[calyxman]

The money you throw into these pricey imports, you can get yourself something reliable like a Honda or Toyota and pocket the savings.

All these luxury makes are nothing more but status symbols. Young guys that drive beamers are either being bank-rolled, up to their eyeballs in debt, looking to pick up chicks, or any combination of the three.

[w_parietti22]

Wished i had a BMW :(


Bless

I wish I had a car :(

:p

[Felldownthewell]

Wish I had a Lexus :(

Wish I had a car :(

Nevermind! Beaten to it by w_parietti22

[w_parietti22]

Wish I had a car :(

Nevermind! Beaten to it by w_parietti22

Great minds think alike. :)

[CompUser]

We are very happy with our VW dealership.

They are honest, friendly, and curious. Always happy to talk to you. They even know which car is ours and what was done to it with out even looking at paperwork. I have two gripes about them

One time a guy called from the dealership and asked it my mom was there. I said "no", he said "Oh, well could you tell her your car is done being repaired". I said "okay, she's on her way to go get it right now" and he said "No, she is not, your car is still here". I said "Yea, cause she is on her way to get it right now, she must not be there yet". The guy said "Well, whatever, just let her know her car is done.

It was like talking to a stupid wall. I also don't like how they leave everyone's car keys on the front desk, so anyone could walk up and take the keys to someone's car.

They usually are friendly though. We are very happy with them. One time they got grease on the headliner, my mom pointed it out. They gave us a Passat loaner (loaded pretty much) and cleaned it for free.

[leftbanke7]

Treat a customer well and they will tell 10 of their friends...
Treat a customer poorly and they will tell 100 strangers...

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Customer service seems to be going by the wayside. For much the same reasons as the OP had (outside of the physically hostile grease monkey), I refuse to ever shop at Nordstroms. Why? Because they treated me like crap. I won't forget that. I don't care if they are the only one selling what it is I need, I won't go there.

On the flip side, I am very loyal to those who have treated me good. There is a car shop up the street from me and they have always done me right so they will continue to get my business and my personal recommendation. And it wasn't like they went out of their way to make me feel like the king of the world. They just treated me like a valued customer.

Unfortunately, more and more it seems like retail customer service people don't care.

[Felldownthewell]

Great minds think alike. :)


And our minds are great, even if our driveways are empty. :D

[puckhead193]

I can only comment on lexus as my family owns 3 (94 LS 400, 04 RX 330, 04 ES 330). We first looked in 94 at lexus. We weren't really familar with them and frankly had no real intention of buying a lexus. my mom brother and I (young at the time) went into the lexus dealership. We were first shown the lower model ES, mom drove it, and didn't really care for it/size. The saleswomen showed us the GS. My mom thought it was nice but too small for her. We then for fun testdrove the LS, and my mom loved it. It was what a luxury car should be. (Except the price) We left and then mom went to my dad and told the story. We went down again and we then test drove all of them and my parents agreed the LS was a suite ride. We ended up buying the LS. Next was my brother's RX, he had a dodge durango and hated it. When the lease was up, the RX was really popular and was highly recommended. At time time, they were remodeling the RX 300 to the 330 so we waited and got the RX for him. Then my turn for a car was coming up. I've always wanted the IS but my mom thought it was too small for a first car. I always loved the GS but it was a bit much for a first car. And i like the ES. my parents splurged and got me the ES b/c it was a safe/ reliable car that would last quite a while.
So far we have been very happy with all our cars and plan on getting a 4th in September/whenever the new LS 460 comes out.

The service at lexus is awesome. They really take care of its customers. With every major service, they give you a complementary loaner car you just have to fill up with gas. (normally an ES or RX) If you can drop off the car they will come and pick up your car/drop off your car at your house. After you've been their a while you will get to know the service people by name.

The build quaility is awesome. My mom's 94 LS has 180,000 miles on it (yes that's correct) and it still feels like its brand new. Both me and my brother have the nav/ and mark levension audio. Both are awesome. Your ears after listening to that stereo for a while will be spoiled. The navigation works like a charm. You never have to rely on map quest ever again.

Between the lexus's your considering, i personally love the new GS. Its a real sexy car ( i like it in red) I haven't test drove the new IS or the ES but looks wise the GS wins

I (at the time was 17) went to a BMW dealer near me and they blew me off completely and were like what are you doing here. They sales person said I should come back with my parents... that was the end of that. I went to lexus and while they weren't kissing my feet, they knew what i was doing their by scoping it out etc and treated me with respect. They were going to let me test drive but couldn't do to insurance reasons so i came back with the 'rents and it was all good
hope this helps...

[dkmaccy]

Have you considered other car brands such as Audi or VW? I currently drive an 05 Audi A4 and absolutely love it! It's cheaper than a BMW 3-Series (factoring the extras) and, in my opinion, much nicer.

I recently test drove the new 330i at my local BMW dealer to see what all the commotion was about, and I must say that I was NOT impressed! I mean, it's a nice car - particular good exterior design, but you just didn't feel the quality that Audi puts into their cars. To most people, they probably wouldn't realize the difference, but if you plan on buying a car that you will spend a lot of time in, you want to feel comfortable and the Audi is definitely a quality car inside and out.

As for the dealership experience, for of all, my Audi dealer - I've been with them for about 3 years now - is absolutely terrific. The friendliest staff, very easy to schedule maintanence appts., etc. My experience at the BMW dealer wasn't bad either. I didn't know what to expect, and was a bit intimated in the showroom. But the salesman was honest, passionate about the cars, and very knowledgable. I also appreciated the fact that he didn't pressure me into buying anything - mainly because I wasn't THAT impressed to begin with. He wasn't hesitant about putting BMW over, that's for sure! By listening to him you would think BMW is the king of automobiles, which is to be expected. That's why it's SOOOOO important to judge for yourself and make up your own mind. This is a big purchase, so choose wisely.

[dkmaccy]

Oh, and I forgot: The Audi A4 gets better gas mileage than the 3-series too!

[Abulia]

Unlike others I'm not going to try to talk you out of your purchases or a different vehicle. Even as someone who owns a BMW (2004 325xi). :)

However, not all dealers are alike. Here in Salt Lake City our BMW dealer is very friendly. Buying my car from them was a nice experience that I'd be happy to repeat. Now the Jag dealer, let's not go there. ;)

Since you've got a head on your sholders it seems, I'd confine your decision-making to the vehicles, not the dealer. If you do happen to fall on the side of the BMW then I'd consider leveraging your experience with that dealer to get a better price; you can always take your business elsewhere.

Oh, and I love my BMW. The "Ultimate Driving Machine" indeed! ;)

[diehldun]

It looks like I was in the same boat as you. I was shopping between the new BMW 3-Series/new Lexus IS/Audi A4. I ended up settling for the BMW (although I have tremendous respect for Lexus- every car we've owned is a Lexus except for my 330i). Although I love BMW, Lexus is the king of customer service/reliability/workmanship/work-ethic. Great company.

Here's a little bit of my opinion:

2006 BMW 330i- the best out there, IMO. Fresh, avant-garde exterior/interior design, handling, performance. What makes this car stand out is that you can have a blast driving it- it's easy, sporty, exciting, and just downright fun and satisfying to drive. One of the best BMWs I've driven in a while! I just got this a few weeks ago; no problems with reliability (a first for us!)

Lexus IS250/IS350- right behind the BMW. It's really a great car, and I would have gotten it if not for the cramped rear seat. The workmanship is flawless, and engine smooth (350), but I still find the overall performance to be generally sub-par to the BMW.

Audi A4- I think it's aging, but aging gracefully. The interior, while still nice, is starting to show a need for an overhaul. The performance, while "spirited", wasn't enough compared to the 3er. However, the biggest problem I have with the A4 (or all Audis today) is that they all look the same! I have difficulty differentiating (and I'm a car buff) the A3/A4/A6/A8 head-on, and even from the side/rear. It really needs more distinctive styling. BMW and Lexus wins here.


For me, it was really a decision between the BMW and the Lexus. Overall, I truly had "more fun" behind the wheel of the BMW. But it's really a personal choice, and you'll have to spend some quality time behind both and see what you truly enjoy.

Good luck with your carshopping! It was really fun for me.

[Xenious]

Before you give up on the Z4 because of a bad experience at your dealer try another one. It is too bad you aren't in the Houston area because Momentum BMW is a very good dealership.

I love my Z4 and highly recommend it if you like the style of the car. It is a blast to drive.

If you are serious and have more Z4 questions visit this forum: http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e85/

[ksz]

I'm on my third BMW in a row, all 5-series, from the 528i to the 530i to the 545i. Following that trend, next stop: M5 (he dreams).

The first two were from so-so dealerships. Salesmanship and customer service were fine, nothing to complain about and yet nothing extraordinary. One was in Dallas, the other in LA.

The 545i, however, was purchased from a dealership in the Bay Area, one that was recently bought out by AutoNation, the large national chain. Surprisingly, salesmanship and service improved significantly with the new owners. They built a new building, retired many of the old staff, and instituted better management.

All three of my 5-series were/are highly reliable. The only problems were burned-out taillights (fixed with a $2 bulb which the dealerships would just give to me without charge and a service manager would even install it himself), a window that did not roll up all the way, and broken cup holders. Those cup holders are laughable... My 545 has had only one problem: an error message concerning the Active Steering hydraulics. This error was intermittent for several months then finally it stayed on so I took it in for service, and the dealer, of course, gave me a free loaner.

The problem with Active Steering turned out to be something the local technicians could not diagnose and repair, so the problem was escalated to a BMW engineer. The engineer was able to remotely diagnose the problem and he fed-ex'd a replacement part. Since then, the error message has not only completely disappeared, but the feel of Active Steering has improved immensely to the point that I actually love it!

But the story does not end there. As part of the repair, the service rep had to drive the car to verify the fix. During this test drive, the rep felt that there was a bit too much road noise and the ride was not as supple as he had recalled from driving other 545s. So the rep did something completely unexpected, he replaced all 4 tires with 2nd-generation run-flats. The interior is quieter and the ride is noticeably more supple.

They kept the car for 3 days, but they got everything fixed and then some!

Finally, the service adviser asked me to rate the service in various categories on a scale of 1 to 5. Needless to say, I gave them a perfect 5 in every category. I was able to make an appointment one day ahead, every problem was fixed, every fix was explained, and even though a 1-day turnaround lingered into a 3-day turnaround, who cares? They went the extra mile and fixed everything.

Will I buy another BMW in the future? You bet I will.

[diehldun]

I agree with all the above posters: PLEASE give BMW another chance/consideration. Don't let one rotten apple ruin the experience of driving behind the wheel of the "Ultimate Driving Machine"! If you have the opportunity, visit some other dealers- it really depends and makes a difference.

I promise you... you won't regret it at all. :cool:

[Jon'sLightBulbs]

BMW's all marketing. Don't let it get to you. Just remember - it's just a car. I had a 2002 325i w/ sport package, and there was nothing magical about it. And the materialism it speaks of? Barf. Not only is the car nothing special - their service departments are absolutely rotten. No other manufacturer calls you to take "customer satisfaction" surveys and then claims that they have no power to remedy any complaint by virtue of each dealer being independently owned.

I'm not saying don't try them out. I'm just saying there's nothing magical about the marque.

[pseudobrit]

BMW's all marketing. Don't let it get to you. Just remember - it's just a car. I had a 2002 325i w/ sport package, and there was nothing magical about it. And the materialism it speaks of? Barf. Not only is the car nothing special - their service departments are absolutely rotten. No other manufacturer calls you to take "customer satisfaction" surveys and then claims that they have no power to remedy any complaint by virtue of each dealer being independently owned.

That's true. The dealership owner cabal does contractually quite have the manufacturers by the balls when it comes to most things about customer service.

About the only legal recourse the manufacturers have is to restrict the hot selling cars they allot to a troublemaking dealer. That's why they do those surveys; it's the only way to punish crap sales departments.

Dealership owners = evil

[IJ Reilly]

The dealer where our BMW 5-series is serviced is very concerned about how we rate their service when BMW calls, which they generally do each time the car returns from the shop. The dealer never fails to remind us of the importance of giving them a "5" (highest rating) in every category. I suspect that if they don't get a "5" then corporate is not happy with them in some material way.

Personally, I would not darken the door of a dealership where I was abused by even one grouchy employee, but if it makes you feel any better, I'd go to the sales or service manager and complain, then tell him you're planning on taking the complaint to the company.

BTW, I didn't know you could spend $45k on a 3-series. Granted it was a few years ago now, but our 5-series didn't cost that much. It's a terrific car, BTW -- a genuine pleasure to drive.

[D0ct0rteeth]

I bought a BMW M3 and I had a fantastic experience from http://www.thoroughbred.com/ in Nashville.

My last 3 cars have ben thru http://1800vehicles.com/ and I can honestly say if you want a kick ass ride you can get a 2002 BMW M3 thru them for 36k or a convertable for 40k

They do all makes and models, and will take good care of ya

Best;

Doc

[solvs]

I'm sure the BMWs are nice and all, but if this is the dealership you'll be dealing with, I'd look elsewhere. If you're planning on buying a Lexus, maybe consider a nice Toyota instead. Some of them are really nice. If course, I bought a Chevy (which I'm actually pretty happy with, especially being able to completely pay it off soon after buying it), so what do I know. As for the experience, I'd say that was more the norm these days with some things unfortunately. I moved recently, and had a heck of a time with buying new furniture and appliances. I would have gone elsewhere for things, but had problems pretty much everywhere. Sears, Circuit City, JC Penny, Target, etc. and even a few little, locally owned places.

If you find a place that gives really good customer service, you buy there.

[DMPDX]

Hey all. You might remember me as the guy who's about to start a new job and is looking to spend about $45,000 on a new car. The cars I'm considering are the Lexus ES350, IS350, and GS300, the BMW Z4 and 330i, the Acura TL, the Infiniti G35, and the Mercedes C350.

If you have $45,000 to spend, Get an A6. Personally, the best that can be bought for around 40k. We've had a 2000 then just recenty got the new 2006. PERFECT.
I advise just looking at one if you havent already.
-dsm

[pseudobrit]

The dealer where our BMW 5-series is serviced is very concerned about how we rate their service when BMW calls, which they generally do each time the car returns from the shop. The dealer never fails to remind us of the importance of giving them a "5" (highest rating) in every category. I suspect that if they don't get a "5" then corporate is not happy with them in some material way.

As I said, when it comes to popular, high-margin vehicle supply, the manufacturers are allowed to give priority to dealerships doing well with the CSI. And that's about it. But it does matter to them somewhat.

I'm kind of insulted when I'm told how to vote on these surveys. Do your job well and you don't have to command your customers to lie about how they feel. I wish they'd do something less pandering and shameless, like ask me if there's anything that would prevent me from voting "5" on a CSI survey.

[IJ Reilly]

As I said, when it comes to popular, high-margin vehicle supply, the manufacturers are allowed to give priority to dealerships doing well with the CSI. And that's about it. But it does matter to them somewhat.

I'm kind of insulted when I'm told how to vote on these surveys. Do your job well and you don't have to command your customers to lie about how they feel. I wish they'd do something less pandering and shameless, like ask me if there's anything that would prevent me from voting "5" on a CSI survey.

Agreed, but we've had no hesitancy in dinging them when they deserved it. For one, when they suddenly stopped giving us shuttle service from the dealership to where we live, we made our feelings known in the survey. They're now not only doing it again, one time we actually got a free loner car.

[saabmp3]

Agreed, but we've had no hesitancy in dinging them when they deserved it. For one, when they suddenly stopped giving us shuttle service from the dealership to where we live, we made our feelings known in the survey. They're now not only doing it again, one time we actually got a free loner car.

With my Saab dealer (heck, every saab dealer I've used during warrenty work, I can think of 4 different ones) has ALWAYS given me a free loaner car. Usually it's something brand new too, with less than 5k miles. Only once did I get a non-Saab (Caddy, which I wasn't too impressed with, but that's another story).

At a premium dealer like that I would DEMAND a loaner car.

Ben