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MacRumors
May 11, 2006, 09:24 AM
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Walt Mossberg writes (http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB114729881894749433-ORYg5V1P3c0KNb715LUzZq56SQ4_20060609.html) in the Wall Street Journal about the different approaches that Microsoft and Apple have taken with computers and digital devices.

According to Mossberg, Microsoft follows a "component model" in which many companies made hardware and software to run on a standard platform. This is true for PC's in general as well as Microsoft's Windows CE platform and the recently released Origami platform. This model produces "inexpensive commodity devices that don't always work perfectly together, but get the job done".

Apple's model has been one of "end-to-end", in which one company designs both the hardware and software "which work smoothly together, but the products cost more and limit choice."

Much of Apple's success with the iPod has been due to this end-to-end model. Some critics believe that over time, the component model will overtake the iPod as it has in the PC market, but Mossberg disagrees:

I think the end-to-end model can prevail this time, both for Apple and other companies. Consumers want choice and low prices. But they also crave the kind of simplicity and integration that the end-to-end model delivers best.

Meanwhile, almost as a sidenote, Mossberg claims that Apple "is working on other projects built on the same end-to-end model as the iPod: a media-playing cellphone and a home-media hub."

There have been ongoing rumors (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/03/20060317152445.shtml) that Apple is working on a cellphone, so these comments may reflect those rumors. Rumors of a "home-media hub", however, have been less prevalent.

Peace
May 11, 2006, 09:34 AM
Maybe that 30th anniversary 30" iMac is a media hub eh?
As for cell phones.I have no need for one personally but hope Apple can make one for folks.

corywoolf
May 11, 2006, 09:38 AM
Maybe that 30th anniversary 30" iMac is a media hub eh?
As for cell phones.I have no need for one personally but hope Apple can make one for folks.
As long as Moto isn't in on the project and the phone doesn't cost more then $200 USD then I might get one.

sartinsauce
May 11, 2006, 09:41 AM
I knew this was going to happen. I reluctantly signed a 2 year contract with cingular yesterday.

After ages of month to month Verizon service, waiting for an Apple phone, my phone crashed and all my contacts went with it. I decided it was time to get a phone with a SIM card and GSM support (I travel a lot as an International Man of Mystery).

Not 12 hours later this article pops up. As I understand it, Walt Mossberg is pretty tight with Jobs & Co. If anyone in the press has an inside scoop, I supposed to be him.

The media hub could simply be a DVR with an AirPort (Express? Extreme? AV?) Base Station built in. Keep it simple right? Keep it something that all the computers in your house (Windows or OS X) connect to to distribute content...

macnews
May 11, 2006, 09:47 AM
Bring on the media center, but as to an Apple cell phone - that is problematic.

Even if Apple developed the phone, which would probably be a good phone, unless they also provided the service I am affraid the Verizons and Cingulars would limit some of the features (most likely all in the case of Verizon).

Oh, and if Apple does release a phone - people PLEASE remember Apple does simple. So when the phone doesn't have the 500 games you wanted, AM/FM, mac mini, media center, alien alert center and come in a million different styles - please don't complain! It will not be the swiss army knife of cell phones, just a cell phone that works well and does incorporate a few functions.

sunfast
May 11, 2006, 09:48 AM
A home media hub sounds like a very cool idea. A massive HD would be required.

kgarner
May 11, 2006, 09:52 AM
I think Walt was referring to the combination of the iLife Suite and Front Row as the home media hub. It is in its early stages right now, but I think it shows a lot of promise. Remember, he said home media hub, not home entertainment center.

jaxstate
May 11, 2006, 09:53 AM
I don't really need a media hub, and I think they waited too long to get into the mobile phone market to catch up. Just like I think MS, Dell, ... waited too long to get in to the MP3 market.

orion123
May 11, 2006, 09:55 AM
Mossberg has better contacts and access in Apple than any other news organization or reporter. He gets early pre-release access to Apple products (something they don't do for hardly anyone else) and Apple loves him, obviously due to his glowing reviews in the huge WSJ.

So I'd say these are more than rumors. Or they are at least rumors that he checked with Apple on, and got a wink in return.

skochan
May 11, 2006, 09:59 AM
As for cell phones.I have no need for one personally but hope Apple can make one for folks.

Apple's presence in the cell phone market is sorely needed! I've been struggling with my Treo 700w that runs Windows Mobile 5.0 for the last week now. It is such a mess! Apple's expertise in developing a phone with a simple easy-to-use interface will be welcome! Plus with built-in iSight and iPod capabilities.... I'm ready!!!

bretm
May 11, 2006, 10:00 AM
I don't really need a media hub, and I think they waited too long to get into the mobile phone market to catch up. Just like I think MS, Dell, ... waited too long to get in to the MP3 market.

We said the same thing when the ipod came out. There's only 2 competitors in the phone market. The Blackberry and the Treo. If Apple released something of that nature that seamlessly linked to email, address book, iCal, and some sort of mini Safari plus iTunes of course it would be an easy sell. And especially if it were platform independent like the iPod. It could come with free versions of iCal, mail, etc. for the PC just like iPod brought iTunes to the PC, OR it could also link up with Outlook of course.

jaxstate
May 11, 2006, 10:05 AM
Who said this about the iPod when it came out... no one that I can remember. Apple has let others get a big head start on them, and I dont see them catching up. Esp. since treos now use wm5.
We said the same thing when the ipod came out. There's only 2 competitors in the phone market. The Blackberry and the Treo. If Apple released something of that nature that seamlessly linked to email, address book, iCal, and some sort of mini Safari plus iTunes of course it would be an easy sell. And especially if it were platform independent like the iPod. It could come with free versions of iCal, mail, etc. for the PC just like iPod brought iTunes to the PC, OR it could also link up with Outlook of course.

Multimedia
May 11, 2006, 10:06 AM
Mossberg Is Apple's Darling Analyst. Whatever Mossberg says, he's in Apple's corner for sure.

I would love to have an Apple Cellphone, but it would have to be available from more than one carrier to really work I think.

BTW - Anybody notice Steve now owns more of Disney than anyone else now? - 6.4 % and sits on their Board? He obtained about $4 Billion in Disney stock last week. So he went from being worth about $1 Billion to over $4 Billion last week. That's gotta be some kind of net worth increase in record time record doesn't it? 400% in a day. :eek:

I am wondering why this was not posted as a news item on the cover of MacRumors? :confused:

skochan
May 11, 2006, 10:09 AM
Apple has let others get a big head start on them, and I dont see them catching up. Esp. since treos now use wm5.

The Treos using wm5 is precisely the reason why Apple needs to be in this market. If you followed the Treo forums and the mess they've made of email polling, battery life, silly unintuitive buttons, processes getting closed, etc., you'd know what I was talking about.

jaxstate
May 11, 2006, 10:16 AM
I'm using wmCE, but I have heard about the problems with wm5. Glad I decided to wait to upgraded.
The Treos using wm5 is precisely the reason why Apple needs to be in this market. If you followed the Treo forums and the mess they've made of email polling, battery life, silly unintuitive buttons, processes getting closed, etc., you'd know what I was talking about.
But I think those issues will be resolved before apple could get into the market.

budugu
May 11, 2006, 10:24 AM
I am not sure when Mr. Mossberg will move his head out of Mr. Jobs ass! ANyway no news here just old ***** in brand spanking new Journal. Apple phone is ridiculous! It takes a lot to manufacture a phone, other than being prohibitively expensive i cannot see any other features that can come with it. That are not already present in the current generation of phones. BTW Windows Mobile 5 is probably the best PDA/Phone OS available (if you have a decent processor)! (there was a news article that with Beta 6 they have raised the multiprocessing capability from 32 (probably already was the highest) to 32000 threads/processes). It is fairly stable. Symbian 60 series is also not bad.

topgunn
May 11, 2006, 10:27 AM
BTW - Anybody notice Steve now owns more of Disney than anyone else now? - 6.4 % and sits on their Board? He obtained about $4 Billion in Disney stock last week. So he went from being worth about $1 Billion to over $4 Billion last week. That's gotta be some kind of net worth increase in record time record doesn't it? 400% in a day. :eek:

I am wondering why this was not posted as a news item on the cover of MacRumors? :confused:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=175188

Not quite last week but it was big news.

Le Big Mac
May 11, 2006, 10:37 AM
A home media hub sounds like a very cool idea. A massive HD would be required.

Am I missing something from MacRumors? Isn't a home media hub an idea that people have been bouncing around here for a while? Isn't that the MacMini, plus a DVR and TV tuner? Isn't it something Jobs said doesn't make sense (which means, "we're working on it")?

A home media hub is so logical given where apple is going, and relatively easily attained, given where the Mini is now.

jaxstate
May 11, 2006, 10:51 AM
Wouldn't a DVR take sales away from iTunes?:confused:
Am I missing something from MacRumors? Isn't a home media hub an idea that people have been bouncing around here for a while? Isn't that the MacMini, plus a DVR and TV tuner? Isn't it something Jobs said doesn't make sense (which means, "we're working on it")?

A home media hub is so logical given where apple is going, and relatively easily attained, given where the Mini is now.

jayb2000
May 11, 2006, 10:59 AM
I am not sure when Mr. Mossberg will move his head out of Mr. Jobs ass! ANyway no news here just old ***** in brand spanking new Journal. Apple phone is ridiculous! It takes a lot to manufacture a phone, other than being prohibitively expensive i cannot see any other features that can come with it. That are not already present in the current generation of phones. BTW Windows Mobile 5 is probably the best PDA/Phone OS available (if you have a decent processor)! (there was a news article that with Beta 6 they have raised the multiprocessing capability from 32 (probably already was the highest) to 32000 threads/processes). It is fairly stable. Symbian 60 series is also not bad.

But if Windows is the best available, imagine what an OS X phone or updated newton or even brand new phone OS could be, designed from Apple!

Palm phones are much smoother than Windows IF you don't need to connect to Exchange and use Office. But for phone, contact, and web capabilities, I would much rather use Palm or Symbian than Windows Mobile.

So, if we could get something that has the same level of office connectivity as OS X, but in a form factor designed by Apple, I would be happy to get one.

Unfortunately, I really need to replace my old POS Moto V60, and the Sony w810 looks to be the best for me right now. If that comes out before Apple's, than I will probably use that for a while.

MrCrowbar
May 11, 2006, 10:59 AM
Wouldn't a DVR take sales away from iTunes?:confused:

Apple hardly makes any money on ITMS, i.e the stuff they sell there. Apple makes the moeny on the hardware iPods). If they released a media center (maybe a thiny you put under on your Mac Mini) and make it work seamlessly with an online store (live streaming via Front Row? Works for movie trailers) then it would be very neat I think.

NewSc2
May 11, 2006, 11:04 AM
speculation, speculation... if any real information gets out about an iPhone then i'll be here =)

budugu
May 11, 2006, 11:10 AM
But if Windows is the best available, imagine what an OS X phone or updated newton or even brand new phone OS could be, designed from Apple!

Palm phones are much smoother than Windows IF you don't need to connect to Exchange and use Office. But for phone, contact, and web capabilities, I would much rather use Palm or Symbian than Windows Mobile.

So, if we could get something that has the same level of office connectivity as OS X, but in a form factor designed by Apple, I would be happy to get one.

Unfortunately, I really need to replace my old POS Moto V60, and the Sony w810 looks to be the best for me right now. If that comes out before Apple's, than I will probably use that for a while.

Probably it is true but at what cost? creating a mobile OS takes a lot of time esp for a new Processor line! Unless steve comes out and shows OSX running on Xscale or TI's (Dual Core concept -i forget the name) it will take a few hundred million dollar development. And Windows Mobile has almost no relation to Windows (except for the name). You can play pretty sleek 2 1/2-D games on it though! Symbian is a weak OS and Palm OS (thankfully So) is dead. Heck you cannot run two programs simultaneously on that crap!!! Nokia was playing with Linux probably that is the only other alternative.

jaxstate
May 11, 2006, 11:10 AM
I could see the TV companies pulling their programs off the iTMS if this happens. So the people without the "DVR" would feel shafted.
Apple hardly makes any money on ITMS, i.e the stuff they sell there. Apple makes the moeny on the hardware iPods). If they released a media center (maybe a thiny you put under on your Mac Mini) and make it work seamlessly with an online store (live streaming via Front Row? Works for movie trailers) then it would be very neat I think.

jaxstate
May 11, 2006, 11:11 AM
I've only used a palm phone once, but the interface on the Windows Smartphone are very nice and very intuitive.
But if Windows is the best available, imagine what an OS X phone or updated newton or even brand new phone OS could be, designed from Apple!

Palm phones are much smoother than Windows IF you don't need to connect to Exchange and use Office. But for phone, contact, and web capabilities, I would much rather use Palm or Symbian than Windows Mobile.

So, if we could get something that has the same level of office connectivity as OS X, but in a form factor designed by Apple, I would be happy to get one.

Unfortunately, I really need to replace my old POS Moto V60, and the Sony w810 looks to be the best for me right now. If that comes out before Apple's, than I will probably use that for a while.

SPUY767
May 11, 2006, 11:20 AM
Mossberg Is Apple's Darling Analyst. Whatever Mossberg says, he's in Apple's corner for sure.

I would love to have an Apple Cellphone, but it would have to be available from more than one carrier to really work I think.

BTW - Anybody notice Steve now owns more of Disney than anyone else now? - 6.4 % and sits on their Board? He obtained about $4 Billion in Disney stock last week. So he went from being worth about $1 Billion to over $4 Billion last week. That's gotta be some kind of net worth increase in record time record doesn't it? 400% in a day. :eek:

I am wondering why this was not posted as a news item on the cover of MacRumors? :confused:

'Cept for that homeless guy I gave five bucks last week, his net worth went up by a few thousand percent!

IJ Reilly
May 11, 2006, 11:28 AM
I think Mossberg is right, but for the wrong reasons. Microsoft's so-called "component model" was never really Microsoft's model, if as I assume, he's referring to the PC. The PC of course was designed by IBM not Microsoft, and it was only by virtue of an historical accident (IBM not owning the OS, and the PC architecture being cloned) that the "component model" worked for Microsoft. I think it's a better question to ask whether the "component model" has worked for Microsoft in any other area -- e.g., have they made money from Windows CE? I think they have made little or none on this or any other "component" effort (aside from Windows), which is what casts the most serious doubt on the virtues of the "component model," and provides the biggest hint about which approach will be the most successful in the future.

barcodebawtv
May 11, 2006, 11:29 AM
Great article, this "end to end" process that he talks about is exactly what has led me to Macs. I did some programming with Microsoft and was baffled that even their "high end" apps didn't communicate with one another.:confused:
So I am an official zealot now... minus actually owning a mac. Pathetic yes, I'm just anxiously awaiting the elusive MacBook.

jaxstate
May 11, 2006, 11:33 AM
What you lead you to believe that they are not making money from Windows CE and Windows MC.
I think Mossberg is right, but for the wrong reasons. Microsoft's so-called "component model" was never really Microsoft's model, if as I assume, he's referring to the PC. The PC of course was designed by IBM not Microsoft, and it was only by virtue of an historical accident (IBM not owning the OS, and the PC architecture being cloned) that the "component model" worked for Microsoft. I think it's a better question to ask whether the "component model" has worked for Microsoft in any other area -- e.g., have they made money from Windows CE? I think they have made little or none on this or any other "component" effort (aside from Windows), which is what casts the most serious doubt on the virtues of the "component model," and provides the biggest hint about which approach will be the most successful in the future.
They only product I know for sure where they are taking a loss is the XBOX, which they make up for with software.

drwam
May 11, 2006, 12:15 PM
Hey, Mossberg is a mainstream reporter for a business oriented journal. I am sure that he would not write of inside info from Apple without Apple's approval. If he did not have that approval, he would get ZERO inside info in the future. So, think of this as an official Apple statement.
Apple has had a great run with the iPod which, while not over, is peaking. When you look to how young folks run their lives now, the cell phone is a BIG part of their lives. The iPod experience will not be taken over by commodity cheap music players anytime soon. However, those functions built into cell phones opens a big market to expand the business. If Apple does not build it, someone (or many someones) will. Folks will buy the single device that does everything and leave their iPods to collect dust. There are huge engineering problems (battery life) and huge business problems (cell phone carriers). But Apple has gotta go there. The Mossberg piece means that Apple wants people who buy stock to KNOW they are going there and not to unload their stock because the iPod is peaking.
The same argument can be made for video on demand. Apple needs to provide a compelling end to end experience or someone(s) else will make millions off of something inferior. They gotta go there and I pray they have known this for some time and have done really good development work to date.
I have always believed that the Intel switch was largely driven by the need to use more off the shelf components and keep costs down since this is critical to the very price sensitive consumer electronics market. Obviously, none of us are really impressed that Apple is using the Intel chipsets to lower the cost of Macs. I had originally hoped that there would be more Apple-Intel consumer electronics by last Christmas. They had better not miss this Christmas...
Real artists ship.

dongmin
May 11, 2006, 12:25 PM
As far as media-oriented phones go, I'd look into a Sony Ericsson. Just got my K750i yesterday. I gotta say, it's impressive.

http://www.itreviews.co.uk/graphics/normal/hardware/h802.jpg

-2 megapixel camera that actually takes pictures that you wanna print
-mp3/mp4 player + fm radio with good sound
-fully-functional bluetooth
-memory stick slot
-good interface
-syncs perfectly with my Mac
-other bells and whistles (http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?cc=gb&lc=en&ver=4000&template=pp1_loader&php=php1_10242&zone=pp&lm=pp1&pid=10242)

Cnet review (http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_Ericsson_K750i/4505-6454_7-31313351.html)

It's not quite as slick as an iPod, but for $300 (got mine for $150 with contract), it's pretty damn feature-packed little phone. SE's got some cool stuff in the works, including the K800i which one-ups the K750i. Too bad most of their stuff doesn't get released in the States.

Scruff
May 11, 2006, 12:27 PM
The only way I can see an iPhone working would be if it was an expansion of the iPod. You get plenty of MP3 playing phones nowadays, but none of them can really compete with something along the lines of the iPod. An iPod/Phone would certainly win over people who use their phone as an MP3 player, and also all the people that think the price of an iPod is a bit high... they'd probably see more value in a combined MP3 player/phone.

And yeah, I just can't be bothered carrying BOTH my phone and my iPod. It's just so tiresome... :p.

peharri
May 11, 2006, 12:32 PM
I think Mossberg is right, but for the wrong reasons. Microsoft's so-called "component model" was never really Microsoft's model, if as I assume, he's referring to the PC. The PC of course was designed by IBM not Microsoft, and it was only by virtue of an historical accident (IBM not owning the OS, and the PC architecture being cloned) that the "component model" worked for Microsoft.

Microsoft didn't start off with MSDOS. They started off with Microsoft BASIC. Their initial model was, indeed, to sell ports of MS BASIC to computer manufacturers to bundle with their computers. With many home computers, BASIC ended up being the whole operating system, not just a language.

So they've been at this for a long time, and while it's been portrayed as lucky intuition on Gate's part that he sold DOS to IBM with the provision Microsoft be allowed to sell it to third parties, I don't think it was intuition, I think this was normal business practice for Microsoft. The IBM deal is where it got the spotlight.

Multimedia
May 11, 2006, 12:33 PM
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=175188

Not quite last week but it was big news.It HAPPENED LAST Friday and it turned out to be $4 Billion not $3.5 Billion. His total is now over $4.4 Billion ranking 140 among Billionaires along with former Disney mogul David Geffin. Oh the irony. :eek:

Oprah is only $1.4 Billion ranking 562.
Trump is only $2.6 Billion ranking 278.
Ralph Lauren is only $3.6 Billion ranking 185.

iHateGates
May 11, 2006, 12:34 PM
I'd love to see apple do a phone. If it has PDA capability I would probably buy one for the same reason. One less thing to carry. But more realistically, I'd like to see apple do a phone just because their design and functionality is so clean and beautiful. So for that reason, I'd love to see the apple design team tackle a car, bedroom furniture, TV, musical instruments, whatever.

j26
May 11, 2006, 12:43 PM
As far as media-oriented phones go, I'd look into a Sony Ericsson. Just got my K750i yesterday. I gotta say, it's impressive.

http://www.itreviews.co.uk/graphics/normal/hardware/h802.jpg

-2 megapixel camera that actually takes pictures that you wanna print
-mp3 player + fm radio with good sound
-fully-functional bluetooth
-memory stick slot
-good interface
-syncs perfectly with my Mac
-other bells and whistles (http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?cc=gb&lc=en&ver=4000&template=pp1_loader&php=php1_10242&zone=pp&lm=pp1&pid=10242)

Cnet review (http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_Ericsson_K750i/4505-6454_7-31313351.html)

It's not quite as slick as an iPod, but for $300 (got mine for $150 with contract), it's pretty damn feature-packed little phone. SE's got some cool stuff in the works, including the K800i which one-ups the K750i. Too bad most of their stuff doesn't get released in the States.


It is a great phone, and that is the sort of route that Apple should take, with one major proviso. Make it an iPod first, then add a stripped down OSX (iPhoto, iTunes, Mail, Address Book and iCal), and then add in the phone. If people have all that, then the phone function (which should be a relatively straightforward add-on) is a bonus. With a stripped down OSX, let third partiy providers add other functionailty.

It shouldn't be a phone with iPod functionality added on. It sounds weird, but there is a major difference between the approaches.

IJ Reilly
May 11, 2006, 12:47 PM
What you lead you to believe that they are not making money from Windows CE and Windows MC.

They only product I know for sure where they are taking a loss is the XBOX, which they make up for with software.

I have read in the past that Microsoft's compact OSs are at best marginally profitable products, though this may have changed, and the realities are probably difficult to tease out of their financial reports. Another component model effort to consider is the PalmOS. Palm/3Com made money selling Palm devices for a while at least (end-to-end model), but splitting the OS from the hardware has hardly been a blockbuster. As I said, I think Mossberg is generally correct, if not entirely for the right reasons.

As for the Xbox, last I heard, it's still a net money-loser, software sales included.

nbs2
May 11, 2006, 12:48 PM
It is a great phone, and that is the sort of route that Apple should take, with one major proviso. Make it an iPod first, then add a stripped down OSX (iPhoto, iTunes, Mail, Address Book and iCal), and then add in the phone. If people have all that, then the phone function (which should be a relatively straightforward add-on) is a bonus. With a stripped down OSX, let third partiy providers add other functionailty.

It shouldn't be a phone with iPod functionality added on. It sounds weird, but there is a major difference between the approaches.
That, I think is the great debate. I find myself in the opposite camp. If I have a phone, the most important thing is that the phone works. Everything else is irrelevant. That being said, I still think that a BTO phone would be wonderful. That way I could get a decent BT phone w/o a camera...

mtrctyjoe
May 11, 2006, 12:48 PM
I'd say we will be seeing something more the a MacBook come May 19th. Ready and waiting.:D

IJ Reilly
May 11, 2006, 12:52 PM
Microsoft didn't start off with MSDOS. They started off with Microsoft BASIC. Their initial model was, indeed, to sell ports of MS BASIC to computer manufacturers to bundle with their computers. With many home computers, BASIC ended up being the whole operating system, not just a language.

True, but this is basically software/firmware sales, and I don't believe it's what Mossberg was referencing as an example of the component model. I think he meant PCs and Windows.

So they've been at this for a long time, and while it's been portrayed as lucky intuition on Gate's part that he sold DOS to IBM with the provision Microsoft be allowed to sell it to third parties, I don't think it was intuition, I think this was normal business practice for Microsoft. The IBM deal is where it got the spotlight.

In a sense, yes, but cloning didn't exist at the time and AFAIK, wasn't predicted by anyone. Normal business practice maybe, but it took a stroke of luck for it to pay off, especially like it did.

nagromme
May 11, 2006, 12:53 PM
I don't believe Mossberg has any hard inside info on phones etc. He BELIEVES it, but I think it's educated guesses and some good rumors, not to be taken TOO seriously.


I am not sure when Mr. Mossberg will move his head out of Mr. Jobs ass! ANyway no news here just old ***** in brand spanking new Journal.
Mossberg Is Apple's Darling Analyst. Whatever Mossberg says, he's in Apple's corner for sure.
Not so. He has criticized Apple harshly many times--less so recently, because he's found less to complain about. But people who assume that anyone who appreciates Mac products must be biased... well, they may be the true "zealots." ;)

jaxstate
May 11, 2006, 01:14 PM
**SLAPS KNEE laughing**@ only 1.4,2.6, and 3.6
It HAPPENED LAST Friday and it turned out to be $4 Billion not $3.5 Billion. His total is now over $4.4 Billion ranking 140 among Billionaires along with former Disney mogul David Geffin. Oh the irony. :eek:

Oprah is only $1.4 Billion ranking 562.
Trump is only $2.6 Billion ranking 278.
Ralph Lauren is only $3.6 Billion ranking 185.
These numbers are amazing. How in the bloody hell did Mr. Gates get 50B. Sheesh.

jayb2000
May 11, 2006, 01:30 PM
It HAPPENED LAST Friday

I think the confusion lies over the fact that when Disney bought Pixar, it was announced months ago. There were several threads about it at the time.

However, since it just CLOSED on Friday, it is now official.



ON TOPIC:
I think Mossberg appears to be a fair journalist. He has taken Apple to task when needed, and praised them when warranted. I would guess he has several contacts inside Apple that might have given him this info.

I am all for it, when it finally comes out.

ddrueckhammer
May 11, 2006, 02:00 PM
**SLAPS KNEE laughing**@ only 1.4,2.6, and 3.6

These numbers are amazing. How in the bloody hell did Mr. Gates get 50B. Sheesh.

Whats even more crazy is I read somewhere (and I'm not sure if it is still true) that the owner of IKEA had overtaken Gates as the richest man in the world. How the hell do you make that kind of money selling cheap particle board furniture for dorm rooms? BTW I'm a college student so I do have some experience with this.

chewbaccapits
May 11, 2006, 02:08 PM
I don't really need a media hub, and I think they waited too long to get into the mobile phone market to catch up. Just like I think MS, Dell, ... waited too long to get in to the MP3 market. Apple enter the MP3 market when it was already saturated with players...Most were claiming the demise of the product BECAUSE Apple came too late to the party.......

boncellis
May 11, 2006, 02:24 PM
I could see the TV companies pulling their programs off the iTMS if this happens. So the people without the "DVR" would feel shafted.

I agree. Although look what ABC did last week, they put streaming versions of their primetime shows on the web with a few commercials and it works prett smoothly. I could see more networks doing this (after the show has already aired), and if so, they're already cutting into TV Show sales in the iTMS.

The iTMS shows were meant to be for the iPod, but there has to be a lot of overlap with people buying episodes to watch on demand at home as well. If the streaming thing catches on and iTMS sales suffer, then Apple wouldn't have a lot of reason not to include a DVR. But then, what makes sense to me doesn't make the same amount of sense in Cupertino.

ScubaDuc
May 11, 2006, 02:24 PM
As far as media-oriented phones go, I'd look into a Sony Ericsson. Just got my K750i yesterday. I gotta say, it's impressive.

http://www.itreviews.co.uk/graphics/normal/hardware/h802.jpg

-2 megapixel camera that actually takes pictures that you wanna print
-mp3 player + fm radio with good sound
-fully-functional bluetooth
-memory stick slot
-good interface
-syncs perfectly with my Mac
-other bells and whistles (http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?cc=gb&lc=en&ver=4000&template=pp1_loader&php=php1_10242&zone=pp&lm=pp1&pid=10242)

Cnet review (http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_Ericsson_K750i/4505-6454_7-31313351.html)

It's not quite as slick as an iPod, but for $300 (got mine for $150 with contract), it's pretty damn feature-packed little phone. SE's got some cool stuff in the works, including the K800i which one-ups the K750i. Too bad most of their stuff doesn't get released in the States.


Not nearly as nice and reliable as Nokia phones: my 1,500 Nokia shares are all speaking in unison...:p That is what Apple needs; a top of the line independent company to partner with that has a large presence in the infrastructure market as well as being the leading GSM manufacturer. Nokia has the leverage to "twist" the arm of carriers and bring new products to market....

MacsRgr8
May 11, 2006, 02:57 PM
Whats even more crazy is I read somewhere (and I'm not sure if it is still true) that the owner of IKEA had overtaken Gates as the richest man in the world. How the hell do you make that kind of money selling cheap particle board furniture for dorm rooms? BTW I'm a college student so I do have some experience with this.

Indeed.. and why aren't the oil sheiks all over the top 10 by now?
Can't be that they are earning less on oil nowadays. :D

MacBookDJ
May 11, 2006, 03:24 PM
How in the bloody hell did Mr. Gates get 50B. Sheesh.

I think he started a really big company (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft) of some sort. :p

netdog
May 11, 2006, 03:37 PM
I don't believe Mossberg has any hard inside info on phones etc. He BELIEVES it, but I think it's educated guesses and some good rumors, not to be taken TOO seriously.


That only means that you don't know much about Mossberg's relationship with Apple. There is no way that he published this without Apple's blessing.

nagromme
May 11, 2006, 03:51 PM
That only means that you don't know much about Mossberg's relationship with Apple. There is no way that he published this without Apple's blessing.
I'd be interested to know how YOU have knowledge of Mossberg's secret directives from Cupertino :D :p

I'm sure he has sources. I don't believe he has hard facts though.

IJ Reilly
May 11, 2006, 05:16 PM
That only means that you don't know much about Mossberg's relationship with Apple. There is no way that he published this without Apple's blessing.

Really? Tell us more!

puuukeey
May 11, 2006, 08:29 PM
BS. it's more than possible to have a stable full featured system and not shut out you're developers.

AidenShaw
May 11, 2006, 10:02 PM
And Windows Mobile has almost no relation to Windows (except for the name).
Sorry, but my "BS Alert" box just lit up the room.

Windows Mobile has no relation to Windows, except for the *fact* than most Windows applications can be recompiled for Windows Mobile without major modifications. That also means that any good Windows programmer will feel right at home in Windows Mobile. (Not to mention that the MS Visual Studio can cross-compile apps for Windows Mobile...)

And that's HUGE.


Nokia was playing with Linux probably that is the only other alternative.
So far, Linux is only showing up in "not very smart" phones.

The apps and tools aren't there to make it a real contender, and there's nobody willing to sink tens or hundreds of millions of dollars to make it happen.

budugu
May 11, 2006, 10:10 PM
Sorry, but my "BS Alert" box just lit up the room.

Windows Mobile has no relation to Windows, except for the *fact* than most Windows applications can be recompiled for Windows Mobile without major modifications. That also means that any good Windows programmer will feel right at home in Windows Mobile. (Not to mention that the MS Visual Studio can cross-compile apps for Windows Mobile...)


It is like saying all OSes that GCC can run have a lot in common! Because why? You can freaking recompile your C code for any OS/Platform. :eek:

AidenShaw
May 11, 2006, 11:19 PM
It is like saying all OSes that GCC can run have a lot in common! Because why? You can freaking recompile your C code for any OS/Platform. :eek:
You haven't actually done any significant programming, have you?

What you say is correct for a trivial "Hello World" terminal application.

If you have a windowing application, with GUI and forms and buttons and other widgets, most of your code is dealing with specific APIs to popup a window, deal with the buttons and text fields that the user enters, giving feedback and error popups, ...

Those application APIs are completely outside of the language - they're part of the OS framework.

And it is exactly those APIs that are similar (or exactly the same) between Windows and Windows CE. The same code in your program that deals with mouse input on a Windows PC works with a touch screen on Windows Mobile. The OS framework deals with lighting the appropriate pixels on the screen, and it doesn't matter to your program whether you click a mouse or touch the screen with your fingernail.

Your post is one of the more ignorant ones in recent memory.

bikertwin
May 12, 2006, 08:01 AM
Yes, I think Mossberg is very biased.
Yes, he probably has inside information (wasn't it the WSJ that broke the switch-to-Intel story last year?)
Yes, Apple should make an iPhone
The iPhone should be SIMPLE above ALL ELSE!
If Apple does make a PDA-type thingie, it should be much larger than a phone, have at least an 800-pixel if not 1024-pixel-wide screen (to browse web pages without scrolling) and be OS X based.


Apple's forte is simplicity. I don't want an overly complicated phone. I want it simple. Easy.

Heck, Apple should bring their simplicity to a lot of other markets. Adobe has great technology but a terrible user interface. Even my Alpine car stereo has great technology but a terrible user interface; I only bought it because it sounds great and has a great iPod hookup (which, by the way, an iPhone should have, too--an iPod dock port). It's definitely not easy to use when you're driving in traffic or at 70 miles per hour. :eek: I mean does your car stereo really need to display the bitrate of the current snippet of song? (I use variable bitrate for my MP3 compression).