Macbook Released

[Gatezone]

No need to be a dick. Especially when you're wrong. Motion doesn't work and they haven't had time to update it for the MacBook? Please, then why isn't the mini on there, it's the same hardware.

I think it might be a MM specialty...:rolleyes:

But... is this a case of unsupported but works? I've only seen one anecdotal report here of it working and the conditions for it working and the type of operations being done were not clear.

Has anyone tried it on the mini and found that it actually worked despite the requirements/supported list?

[ManchesterTrix]

I think it might be a MM specialty...:rolleyes:

But... is this a case of unsupported but works? I've only seen one anecdotal report here of it working and the conditions for it working and the type of operations being done were not clear.

Has anyone tried it on the mini and found that it actually worked despite the requirements/supported list?

If the mini is anything to go by, most of it works but isn't supported and Motion does not work at anything approaching usability.

[ripfrankwhite]

I'm finally settled in with mine and have most of the apps that I need installed. It feels great and I really like it. But one issue that keeps really bugging me is that the colors seem washed out compared to my iMac. I've never owned a laptop and I really don't know what to expect from it.

For example, the icons in the dock menu aren't as bright and the colors aren't as deep as I'l like. Especially when I turn and look at the iMac screen. The iMac has great color.

Is this normal?

[Gatezone]

... Considering how much you've posted about it, it's pretty obvious that you could care less. Much less. I still don't quite understand why people keep getting their panties in a bunch over an option. If you think it's a ripoff, don't buy it. "Problem" solved. Sure it can. But not at these price points. Weight or cost. Pick one.

Problem is not solved. Problem is repositioned and a state of denial is established. One could ask why the true believers keep wearing their panties over their eyes :eek:

What I could care less about was the yellow nissan and the other exploitive coolness taxes on other products.

After the fact the Macbook is what it is. Don't run yesterday's papers up the flag pole and expect people to salute it. If it does what you want it to do and weighs what you want it to weigh then you're in luck. Snap it up. That's great. The views of those who want lighter, more flexible options, and to decide on their own if they are consumer, professional, or mixed use are an important part of the communication process and feedback particularly for other potential buyers who would like to avoid buyers regret.

Read carefully here.... great system if it fits your logistical and software needs. System might as well be a PC if it doesn't have the software (can you say native software boys and girls?) or the logistical specs for your needs. I care about that.

[Multimedia]

No need to be a dick. Especially when you're wrong. Motion doesn't work and they haven't had time to update it for the MacBook? Please, then why isn't the mini on there, it's the same hardware.YES IT WILL and NO it is NOT THE SAME HARDWARE. The Mini is running at 1.67 GHz while the MacBook is running at 2 GHz. That difference in speed will allow Motion to run. Leemo? Where are you on this Motion runs doesn't run thing?? We need a definitive report on Motion on your MacBook ASAP.

[ManchesterTrix]

YES IT WILL and NO it is NOT THE SAME HARDWARE. The Mini is running at 1.67 GHz while the MacBook is running at 2 GHz. That difference in speed will allow Motion to run. Leemo? Where are you on this Motion runs doesn't run thing?? We need a definitive report on Motion on your MacBook ASAP.

And yet, it's not the CPU that's the limiting factor in motion, it's the Graphics. I love how you're yelling that I'm wrong when you have no idea what you're talking about. Good job.

[Gatezone]

And yet, it's not the CPU that's the limiting factor in motion, it's the Graphics. I love how you're yelling that I'm wrong when you have no idea what you're talking about. Good job.

I'm telling you it's a specialty of MM's. :p

[milo]

frankly it's annoying that people are trying to pass off the MacBook as adequate for playing modern 3D games, it clearly isn't.

Who exactly would that be? I smell a straw man.

Great for 2d, including HD? Check. OK for old 3d games and some new 3d games at low resolutions? Check. For the most part, I think we're all in agreement that it's not going to smoke on Quake 4.

What's the difference between the option of a super drive or the option of a better video card???

The first is a simple swap, the second is a different mobo design. That's a substantial difference.

That means you can't run motion right?

I don't know that that's been answered definitively yet. Can someone confirm if it runs or not? How is performance?

[Leemo]

Getting sick of people complaining and saying the pro apps aren't going to run. Here's some screenshots of my MacBook having Logic, Motion and Final Cut Pro open.

My guess is that Apple won't want to advertise that it will do this kind of stuff - otherwise that's lots of potential MacBook Pro business out the window.

And FYI - all run amazingly.

-Leemo

[netdog]

And as long as you continute to try and spread FALSE RUMORS, there is EVERY REASON TO GO ON ABOUT IT.

FALSE RUMORMONGER.

Multimedia, I am running one of these and have played with video a bit on it. It is 2.0Ghz with 2GB of RAM finally in place, and no, this is not the machine you want to cut video on, ok? I love this machine, but wrong choice for heavy video use or for editing lots of large images. Sorry, but encouraging people to think of this as an Avid is just misguided. As you haven't had your hands on one, I suggest that you listen to people who have experience with it.

Can it edit video and images? Sure. Is it the ideal machine for doing so? Well, the screen is small, so only when jacked into something larger, the bus runs at 667, which will soon be surpassed, and the largest drive that Apple will sell you is a 120GB. The largest after-market drive that I am aware of is 160GB. There is no Firewire 800. Light video and occasional editing of large images? Sure. Casting this as a video and image workstaion? Sorry Multi, but I just don't see it, and no amount of your obnoxious slandering of users who disagree with you here.

If I am buying a machine for editing video and large images, I wait for something with a faster bus and Firewire 800, and for me, a larger screen (not pixel count...screen size). The faster bus is 3 months away, and counseling people with these needs that a MacBook 13" will suit them is wrong. This is a great machine to tote around, and use for playing media, light editing of media, word processing, browsing and other relatively light chores. It was never meant to be a media production workstation.

As for your attacks on people in your previous post, me thinks it may be time for some folks to take their meds. I thought that kind of stuff was only permitted at AI. You have every right to disagree, and to post your opinions. I suggest, however, that the bold-type insults cease.

[gloss]

I'm finally settled in with mine and have most of the apps that I need installed. It feels great and I really like it. But one issue that keeps really bugging me is that the colors seem washed out compared to my iMac. I've never owned a laptop and I really don't know what to expect from it.

For example, the icons in the dock menu aren't as bright and the colors aren't as deep as I'l like. Especially when I turn and look at the iMac screen. The iMac has great color.

Is this normal?

I dunno, compared to every other Mac notebook I've used the color is downright brilliant.

The screen is rather picky when it comes to horizontal and vertical viewing angle. Make sure it's tilted correctly and you're looking at it straight on.

Also, oddly, I've noticed it looks better in moderate light than in the dark.

[Gatezone]

Getting sick of people complaining and saying the pro apps aren't going to run. Here's some screenshots of my MacBook having Logic, Motion and Final Cut Pro open. My guess is that Apple won't want to advertise that it will do this kind of stuff - otherwise that's lots of potential MacBook Pro business out the window. And FYI - all run amazingly. -Leemo

Uh oh... does this mean dick is right? :eek: Oops, Netdog has a balanced and reasoned answer that supercedes the screen shots.

[iGary]

YES IT WILL and NO it is NOT THE SAME HARDWARE. The Mini is running at 1.67 GHz while the MacBook is running at 2 GHz. That difference in speed will allow Motion to run. Leemo? Where are you on this Motion runs doesn't run thing?? We need a definitive report on Motion on your MacBook ASAP.

You are possibly the most annoying person I have ever experienced here in two years. :)

[PaulinMaryland]

Should we talk about the engineering skill necessary to create the iPod video player? But it's too much to have a case, system board, and components that can handle options like we are talking about here? I don't buy it.Neither do I. Desktop and tower PCs have onboard graphics and a slot for an optional graphics board. Can't Apple do the same?

[ManchesterTrix]

Uh oh... does this mean dick is right? :eek:

Depends on your definition of "Amazingly."

[Multimedia]

And yet, it's not the CPU that's the limiting factor in motion, it's the Graphics. I love how you're yelling that I'm wrong when you have no idea what you're talking about. Good job.The integrated graphics in the MacBook are not so poor that you cannot get SOME functionality out of Limited Parts of Motion 2. What I am challenging is your assertion that Motion 2 doesn't run AT ALL. I think it will run in a LIMITED CAPACITY.

Moreover your main assertion that Final Cut Pro won't run is just plain WRONG.

Also Soundtrack Pro and DVD Studio 4 will run fine too. So stop saying MacBook is not a decent platform for Final Cut Studio. 3 of 4 completely and the fourth with limited capability - NOT never. You both inspire the DICK in me. :DPost #2018 - Getting sick of people complaining and saying the pro apps aren't going to run. Here's some screenshots of my MacBook having Logic, Motion and Final Cut Pro open.

My guess is that Apple won't want to advertise that it will do this kind of stuff - otherwise that's lots of potential MacBook Pro business out the window.

And FYI - all run amazingly.

-Leemo Go to Post 2018 to see the screen shots. MOTION WORKS. Now who's the real DICK here??!

[Chundles]

You are possibly the most annoying person I have ever experienced here in two years. :)

He's certainly persistent and frequent.

[ManchesterTrix]

The integrated graphics in the MacBook are not so poor that you cannot get SOME functionality out of Limited Parts of Motion 2. What I am challenging is your assertion that Motion 2 doesn't run AT ALL. I think it will run in a LIMITED CAPACITY.

I said Motion doesn't work. Which to be more specific, I meant it's not usable.

Moreover your main assertion that Final Cut Pro won't run is just plain WRONG.

I never even implied that let alone asserted that. I said it wasn't supported, and it isn't and won't be. So you know, maybe you should read what I say before you make yourself look more foolish.

[Gatezone]

Neither do I. Desktop and tower PCs have onboard graphics and a slot for an optional graphics board. Can't Apple do the same?

As much as I rant about how there could be more respect paid to the mixed use of computers, matticus and others points are valid. Particularly when Apple has been going down this laptop road for awhile. They could do more, hopefully they will, and it is disappointing (sorry folks) that they didn't diverge from their beaten path a bit more as they had the chance with the new releases. They were obviously under yet another processor priority deadline 'gun' and had to get these out or else...

Once you're hanging by a branch from the side of a huge cliff it's hard to re-engineer your graphics choices. All you care about is when is Adobe going to get their native aps out the door to support your most loyal users.

[netdog]

It is probably just the drive speed, but this 2.0 MacBook is not as snappy as my 2.0 iMac. I wonder if it is underclocked. In any case, their is a noticeable difference in speed between the two machines. That said, this MacBook is fantastic.

[PaulinMaryland]

Am I the only one actually GLAD the Macbooks have the GMA? Do you know how much battery a dedicated graphics card takes? I bet you would have 1 hour less battery with a dedicated GPU and everyone would complain about that....Same goes for 7200 rpm hard drive. Granted the performance on a 7200 rpm drive is better, but it all goes on the battery.Point well taken! I'll be buying the MacBook with the slowest CPU for the same reason. Performance is nice to have if you can replace the battery with a spare. But when your battery is captive, as it is in the MacBook (correct?), efficiency matters more.

[ManchesterTrix]

It is probably just the drive speed, but this 2.0 MacBook is not as snappy as my 2.0 iMac. I wonder if it is underclocked. In any case, their is a noticeable difference in speed between the two machines. That said, this MacBook is fantastic.

Load the speedit kernel extension, it'll allow you to find out your current frequency on the CPU. http://www.increw.com/open_source/speedit_kernel_extension/speedit.html

[Leemo]

Depends on your definition of "Amazingly."

Hey don't worry I'm not trying to argue with you in relation to the performance of such programs on it - personally for my needs (having used a powermac G5, then a MacBook Pro and now my MacBook) I've found the performance to be barely any different to the MacBook Pro that I used for a few months.

Whilst ok it's got a smaller hard drive than you might want for video editing, I just take the required material with me on the hard drive anyway, which is fine for me. Personally I find the screen a pleasure to use, only on occasion have the smaller dimensions seemed a hinderence during editing - but that's to be expected in a portable, and really not as bad as I thought it would be.

My argument is that this little machine does far and away what I expected of it (so much so that I've got rid of my MacBook Pro) and for my video, audio and photo editing needs it's an amazing bit of kit.

2ghz MacBook that runs Pro Apps extremely well for £780? Couldn't ask for more.

-Leemo

[Gatezone]

...But when your battery is captive, as it is in the MacBook (correct?), efficiency matters more.

What does this mean "your battery is captive?"

[PaulinMaryland]

Why not save your $250 and buy the Seagate 160 GB HD with it since the MacBook HD is user installable?Because we still haven't confirmed that doing so won't void the warranty and AppleCare.

[netdog]

Point well taken! I'll be buying the MacBook with the slowest CPU for the same reason. Performance is nice to have if you can replace the battery with a spare. But when your battery is captive, as it is in the MacBook (correct?), efficiency matters more.

Speaking of battery life, I had left my MacBook 2.0GHz on to drain its battery last night. The screen was set to turn off after thirty minutes, but it was set to never put the CPU to sleep and I kept Bluetooth and Wifi on with the Wifi connected to the router.

Ok, so nothing but Wifi was really running, but still, the thing was still on 11 hours later. I was impressed to put it mildly.

[MrCrowbar]

Point well taken! I'll be buying the MacBook with the slowest CPU for the same reason. Performance is nice to have if you can replace the battery with a spare. But when your battery is captive, as it is in the MacBook (correct?), efficiency matters more.

Wow.. somepne DOE read all the posts. :eek:
However, I think the CPU clocks down on battery (you can tell it to do so) so both models should work equally long on battery. Right? :confused: Be sure to ut a lot of RAM in there to keep the HDD from working too much. I'm looking for an efficient hard drive right for my Macbook right now. Pretty hard to find big 2,5" SATA... :(

[Chundles]

battery is captive

What do you mean? You can have a spare battery and it is replaceable. You have to remove the battery to install RAM, all it takes is a turn of the latch on the bottom and it pops out.

Not sure if you need to turn off or sleep the MacBook if you want to replace the battery mid-use, the old 15" and 17" PowerBook's could just be put to sleep during the process but the iBook and the 12" PB had to be shut down.

[Multimedia]

I said Motion doesn't work. Which to be more specific, I meant it's not usable.I thought you said Motion won't run at all on MacBooks. But according to Leemo is does and is.

Then I thought you said Final Cut Pro won't run on MacBooks.I never even implied that let alone asserted that. I said it wasn't supported, and it isn't and won't be. So you know, maybe you should read what I say before you make yourself look more foolish.What the hell does that mean? Isn't and won't be supported? What the heck are you talking about?

Well then I owe you an apology. I thought you MEANT won't run when you siad it isn't supported and won't be. My bad. I apologize. :rolleyes:

Oh and congratulations on your semantical acrobatics. :p . You have brilliant english language usage dexterity and flexibility when the FACTS DEFEAT YOUR Original INTENT. I was SO WRONG to challenge your posts trying to tell everyone they can't run FCS on MacBooks. Yeah I should have just let those go. I was so WRONG. I am a really terrible person for taking up space on this server with that kind of rubbish. I am such a DICK. In fact I AM FOOLISH. And I LOOK Foolish TOO.

You are such a name calling wizard when the FACTS DEFEAT your "REALITY".

[PaulinMaryland]

Is Seagate shipping a 160GB SATA 2.5" drive? If you have a link where to purchase, please post. Thanks!You're referring to the Momentus 5400.3 (http://www.seagate.com/products/notebook/momentus.html). They're starting to appear on U.S. eBay (http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&catref=C6&frpp=50&maxrecordsreturned=300&from=R10&satitle=momentus+160gb&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&bs=Search&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=) but for now, you can find them much less money in the usual price-search engines, such as Froogle (http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=seagate+momentus+160gb&btnG=Search).

[jagolden]

Point well taken! I'll be buying the MacBook with the slowest CPU for the same reason. Performance is nice to have if you can replace the battery with a spare. But when your battery is captive, as it is in the MacBook (correct?), efficiency matters more.

What do mean "captive"? That it can't be removed?
Yes it can, just twist the lock and voila! it's out.
Pop in a spare nd off you go to more computing.

[Gatezone]

I'm rethinking my situation. Give me time and I'll come up with a rationale for spending my money :rolleyes:

I need a laptop because I sold my powerbook 15. I rashly gambled on Apple coming out with something a little different than the specs on the Macbook.

I know that there will be better systems in less than six months because it happens every time I buy a Mac. Matter of months and there is something released that I'd rather have (scrolling track pad was the last one...) It's a fact of mac life that I've lived with since I bought an 840av... groan. Before that I just bought used Macs.

So the strategy is to buy the middle rung macbook knowing that I'll sell my son's mac mini and give it to him in the next 12 - 18 months. Long as it will run Studio 8 my 10 year old son will be happy. He is a maniac with creating flash animations. He'll love the spanning with his current LCD monitor.


Bitch, bitch, moan, whine, whine, stutter, whimper, grouse.... buy?

[netdog]

Load the speedit kernel extension, it'll allow you to find out your current frequency on the CPU. http://www.increw.com/open_source/speedit_kernel_extension/speedit.html

Current operational frequency 1500
Maximum frequency allowed 2000

Does this mean that my processor was just not busy at that time or that it is underclocked? Sorry, but I don't know much about this stuff.

[PaulinMaryland]

What does this mean "your battery is captive?"
Nonremovable. Glad to read that I'm wrong. I hadn't read the battery capacity in the specs page nor read any discussion of battery capacity so I wrongly assumed that you can't swap it out. (Please spare me the quip about, "You know what happens when you assume"; that's true only in English, so it's hardly a universal truth.)

[Gatezone]

Any more news on the black surface flake issue that was being reported yesterday? Seems like we would have heard more about this unless the undergarments are really covering the eyes :cool:

Nonremovable. Please tell me I'm wrong!

See other posts before this one. You are wonderfully wrong :) .

[Chundles]

Nonremovable. Please tell me I'm wrong!

What gave you the impression it was nonremoveable?

I think about 4 or 5 people have now told you that you are wrong. The battery is removed in the same way as on the current iBook, turn the little latch on the bottom.

[PaulinMaryland]

See other posts before this one. You are wonderfully wrong :) .So what is the battery's capacity? We need to know as a benchmark for comparing aftermarket batteries. Is the battery the same as the MacBook Pro 15.4's?

[MrCrowbar]

So what is the battery's capacity? We need to know as a benchmark for comparing aftermarket batteries. Is the battery the same as the MacBook Pro 15.4's?

Battery IS removable:

http://www.kodawarisan.com/macbook/image/DSC_1364.jpg
http://www.kodawarisan.com/macbook/macbook001.html

I read somewhere it's 5500 mAh (compared to 4400 mAh to the 12" powerbook I think).

[dr_lha]

So what is the battery's capacity? We need to know as a benchmark for comparing aftermarket batteries. Is the battery the same as the MacBook Pro 15.4's?
Its got a 55 Watt Hour battery.

Compared to

60 Watt Hour (15.4" MBP)
68 Watt Hour (17" MBP)

[PaulinMaryland]

I see it: 55 watt-hours, vs. 60 watt-hours for the battery that comes with the MacBook Pro 15.4. I'd bet my boots that the Pro Battery won't fit.

As for how I missed it: When you shop for a portable media player, the specs will tell you if the battery is removable/spareable. I expected the same convention here, and the specs don't mention "removable."

[PaulinMaryland]

I just checked Froogle. A spare battery will run you more than $120. I hope there are third-party alternatives soon, but I fear there won't be. A search on eBay for macbook + battery turned up nothing, even though the MacBook Pro has been out for months.

[ImAlwaysRight]

I just checked Froogle. A spare battery will run you more than $120. I hope there are third-party alternatives soon, but I fear there won't be.
That's been a fairly common price for replacement batteries. The good news is on the MacBook, with users reporting getting over 5 hours of battery time, that many people won't need replacement batteries! I for one purchased them in the past, and rarely used them, but they sure add weight when lugging the Book around. This time I'm definitely passing on a spare battery.

[Chundles]

So what is the battery's capacity? We need to know as a benchmark for comparing aftermarket batteries. Is the battery the same as the MacBook Pro 15.4's?

It's all on the MacBook's website. It's not the same battery as the MacBook Pro, it's much larger physically than the old iBook battery and from anecdotal evidence on this site gives the MacBook very good battery life.

It's a 55Wh battery.

MacBook Tech Specs (http://www.apple.com/macbook/specs.html)

Here's some pics.
http://www.kodawarisan.com/macbook/image/DSC_1363.jpg
http://www.kodawarisan.com/macbook/image/DSC_1364.jpg

[®îçhå®?]

Its got a 55 Watt Hour battery.

Compared to

60 Watt Hour (15.4" MBP)
68 Watt Hour (17" MBP)
Therefore it uses less power and, i'm assuming, less current gets turned into heat energy so it is cooler.

[dr_lha]

Therefore it uses less power and, i'm assuming, less current gets turned into heat energy so it is cooler.
I would imagine the majority of energy saving (as it has the same CPU as the MacBooks) is from not having an ATI X1600 sitting in there.

[jbembe]

Anybody have confirmation of the shipping turnaround when ordering directly from apple? My order went out wednesday @ noon, so if it ships in `1-5 days and then takes 2-3 days to arrive I might have it 5/26? I CANT WAIT!!!!!:cool:

[Anoi]

Anybody have confirmation of the shipping turnaround when ordering directly from apple? My order went out wednesday @ noon, so if it ships in `1-5 days and then takes 2-3 days to arrive I might have it 5/26? I CANT WAIT!!!!!:cool:


Wow. I ordered on Wednesday, and have an estimated delivery date of 6th June! Maybe UK people are being made to wait :( heh

[DesmoDog]

Anybody have confirmation of the shipping turnaround when ordering directly from apple? My order went out wednesday @ noon, so if it ships in `1-5 days and then takes 2-3 days to arrive I might have it 5/26? I CANT WAIT!!!!!:cool:

I ordered mine Tuesday morning and it just showed up in my office five minutes ago... they were quoting 1-5 days until it shipped and then another 5 days for shipping when I ordered it...

And now if you'll excuse me, I have a box to open! :D

[pmd]

Wow. I ordered on Wednesday, and have an estimated delivery date of 6th June! Maybe UK people are being made to wait :( heh

I ordered a white 2.0GHz/1GB/100GB MacBook on tuesday afternoon from the UK store - just checked my order and it has shipped, arriving on or before 26th May. A colleague who ordered at the same time says his has shipped too. Before it shipped it gave an estimated delivery of 2nd June.

That's a lot quicker than when I ordered the first Mac mini on the day of launch :-)

[Multimedia]

The new Final Cut Express 3.5 (http://apple.com/finalcutexpress/) Will All Run Great On MacBook.

[Rower_CPU]

According to an Apple Systems Engineer I know, FCS is not "supported" on machines with integrated graphics.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303470 (this article only mentions the Mac mini, but I'm assuming one for the MacBook will be up soon - it took 2 weeks for this article to get posted after the mini was released)

It's obvious from the screenshots we've seen earlier that these apps will still run, but whether or not they will have full functionality or decent performance is still up for debate.

[Multimedia]

According to an Apple Systems Engineer I know, FCS is not "supported" on machines with integrated graphics.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303470 (this article only mentions the Mac mini, but I'm assuming one for the MacBook will be up soon - it took 2 weeks for this article to get posted after the mini was released)

It's obvious from the screenshots we've seen earlier that these apps will still run, but whether or not they will have full functionality or decent performance is still up for debate.I never said FCS will have all the functionality of running it on a Quad or an iMacIntel. I never meant that. I was trying to refute the naysayers who were saying no way in the face of Leemo's numerous reports that it works "Amazingly Well". I think Final Cut Express 3.5 will work great.

And by the way GMA950 supports Quartz Extreme and CoreImage, so it does work fine in spite of its "unsupported" status. You think Apple wants to broadcast that a MacBook is enough to run FCS when they want to sell MacBook Pros to all those guys and gals?

[Cybergypsy]

I ordered mine Tuesday morning and it just showed up in my office five minutes ago... they were quoting 1-5 days until it shipped and then another 5 days for shipping when I ordered it...

And now if you'll excuse me, I have a box to open! :D

NO Fair, you were on the same plan as mine....ughhhhh let me know how it is????

[rajulkabir]

Not sure if you need to turn off or sleep the MacBook if you want to replace the battery mid-use, the old 15" and 17" PowerBook's could just be put to sleep during the process but the iBook and the 12" PB had to be shut down.
My 12" iBook G4's battery has been so abused that it doesn't last for more than half an hour or so. My girlfriend also has a 12" iBook G4, but her battery lasts for 3 or 4 hours because she's not a great big nerd.

If I need to go out, I will sometimes borrow her battery. As long as both machines are connected to wall power, I can put them to sleep and switch the batteries without any problem.

[mark34]

Wow, it has been exhausting, but very informative and entertaining to keep up with this thread. I own a Rev A 12" PB and plan to replace it this summer. I have been thinking about the 15" MBP, but it is simply larger than I want for my mobile unit. I have a 20" G5 iMac at home. Someone commented that the difference in size isn't great between the 15" MBP and the MB. It may not be great, but it IS significant (for me). I had the chance to put them side by side at the Apple store in Austin yesterday. The MB is a touch bigger than I woul like, however I believe it is a perfect compromise for probably the ideal sized screen.

Speaking of the Apple Store, there were a number of amusing conversations I overheard or participated in. It always amazes me how uninformed consumers and sales people are on the latest products in all "gadget" categories. You can imagine some of the conversations.

They only had white ones on display. I asked the salesman if he had any black ones. He said "yes". I said, "can I see it?". His response was, "only if you buy it." I understood his point (which he neglected to point out before his smart a$$ response), but really, could you be more obnoxious?

I watched a student who was about to pull the trigger on a MBP that she had been lusting after for sometime, get quickly enamored with the PB and change her mind and pull the trigger on the MB.

I also was interested in a discussion about the glossy screen. The salesman explained that they made the screen glossy because it is easier to see outside than the matte one and that students often tuse their computers outside. Interesting considering the comments here about the difficulties of glare outside.

I, for one, think the glossy screen is beautiful. The new screen absolutely crushes my 12" PB.

I really wanted a 13" MBP so I have been dissapointed with the belief that that is not going to happen. The more I think about it, though, the MB is MORE than capable for what I do with my laptop. I never play games and don't do any 3D rendering. The most taxing application is probably using iMovie and iDVD. I always want "the most", but this new MB is right on the money for a lot less money than I was willing to spend.

Now, if I plan to buy in July, should I seriously be thinking about waiting for Merom (sp?)?

Thanks for listening to a lurker's first and long post.

[Multimedia]

Wow, it has been exhausting, but very informative and entertaining to keep up with this thread. I own a Rev A 12" PB and plan to replace it this summer. I have been thinking about the 15" MBP, but it is simply larger than I want for my mobile unit. I have a 20" G5 iMac at home. Someone commented that the difference in size isn't great between the 15" MBP and the MB. It may not be great, but it IS significant (for me). I had the chance to put them side by side at the Apple store in Austin yesterday. The MB is a touch bigger than I woul like, however I believe it is a perfect compromise for probably the ideal sized screen.

Speaking of the Apple Store, there were a number of amusing conversations I overheard or participated in. It always amazes me how uninformed consumers and sales people are on the latest products in all "gadget" categories. You can imagine some of the conversations.

They only had white ones on display. I asked the salesman if he had any black ones. He said "yes". I said, "can I see it?". His response was, "only if you buy it." I understood his point (which he neglected to point out before his smart a$$ response), but really, could you be more obnoxious?

I watched a student who was about to pull the trigger on a MBP that she had been lusting after for sometime, get quickly enamored with the PB and change her mind and pull the trigger on the MB.

I also was interested in a discussion about the glossy screen. The salesman explained that they made the screen glossy because it is easier to see outside than the matte one and that students often tuse their computers outside. Interesting considering the comments here about the difficulties of glare outside.

I, for one, think the glossy screen is beautiful. The new screen absolutely crushes my 12" PB.

I really wanted a 13" MBP so I have been dissapointed with the belief that that is not going to happen. The more I think about it, though, the MB is MORE than capable for what I do with my laptop. I never play games and don't do any 3D rendering. The most taxing application is probably using iMovie and iDVD. I always want "the most", but this new MB is right on the money for a lot less money than I was willing to spend.

Now, if I plan to buy in July, should I seriously be thinking about waiting for Merom (sp?)?

Thanks for listening to a lurker's first and long post.Excellent post Mark. Great report. July would be too soon if you MUST. Merom won't begin manufacturing until August and these new MacBooks will proably get Merom after MacBook Pros - my GUESS is by November.

[netdog]

I never said FCS will have all the functionality of running it on a Quad or an iMacIntel. I never meant that. I was trying to refute the naysayers who were saying no way in the face of Leemo's numerous reports that it works "Amazingly Well". I think Final Cut Express 3.5 will work great.

And by the way GMA950 supports Quartz Extreme and CoreImage, so it does work fine in spite of its "unsupported" status. You think Apple wants to broadcast that a MacBook is enough to run FCS when they want to sell MacBook Pros to all those guys and gals?

Actually, when you weren't throwing mud at individuals, what you said included this:

The MacBook not only runs Final Cut Studio well, It supports 1920x1200 external monitors spanning which makes it a KILLER BUDGET FCS Platform. The MacBook is looking like a real Final Cut Studio capable system. Leemo has posted numerous times here that it works great.

A number of people were suggesting that it wasn't a killer FCS system, and you decided to start name-calling.

[Chundles]

Actually, when you weren't throwing mud at individuals, what you said included this:

The MacBook not only runs Final Cut Studio well, It supports 1920x1200 external monitors spanning which makes it a KILLER BUDGET FCS Platform. The MacBook is looking like a real Final Cut Studio capable system. Leemo has posted numerous times here that it works great.

Yep, I reckon that's game, set and match.

[netdog]

I also was interested in a discussion about the glossy screen. The salesman explained that they made the screen glossy because it is easier to see outside than the matte one and that students often tuse their computers outside. Interesting considering the comments here about the difficulties of glare outside.



I used mine out in the garden today, taking advantage of some rare London sunshine, and it was the best outdoor screen experience I have ever had with a laptop. Thoroughly impressed.

[netdog]

Yep, I reckon that's game, set and match.

Does Multimedia ever sleep?

[Chundles]

Does Multimedia ever sleep?

Well, I'm not one to speak of insomnia....
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8108/picture13qc1.png

Is he the rebirth of the Lacero group?

EDIT: 68040!

[milo]

Didn't you just post the answer to this? I can well understand not wanting to believe some of this stuff. Nothing worse than having the money but not wanting to spend it on the available product.

That doesn't answer the question. There are plenty of apps that don't list machines as supported but still work fine. I'd like to hear a report from someone who has actually tried running the app.

Erm, it's more graphics intensive than WoW or other games that have been discussed on here. It requires a good graphics card.


Has anyone tried Sims 2 on one of these? It IS a graphically intensive game. Is it playable? Can you turn down the settings?

It won't run Motion and FCP isn't supported.

What's your source on Motion? What happens when you try to run it? I know FCP isn't supported, but I don't care as long as it runs (and it does).

Problem is not solved. Problem is repositioned and a state of denial is established. One could ask why the true believers keep wearing their panties over their eyes :eek:

What I could care less about was the yellow nissan and the other exploitive coolness taxes on other products.

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? You insist that you don't care about the color pricing. And yet you insist it's still a problem? Make up your mind. Denial? True believers? Do you really have anything to say about this machine, or are you going to sit in your little sandbox and call people names?

The black is more expensive. If you don't like that, DON'T BUY THE BLACK.

No denial there. No "true believing". Seriously, what's so horrible about the notion of simply not taking advantage of the ***option*** of paying more for a different color? You still haven't given a reason for why it causes you to have such a hissy fit beyond It's Just Evil.

As for the weight, my response is simple. Show me a PC laptop with these features, at this price point, that weighs less. Until then, you're just wasting time with your mindless trolling (such as the rest of your post, which is too nonsensical to even bother responding to).

Uh oh... does this mean dick is right? :eek: Oops, Netdog has a balanced and reasoned answer that supercedes the screen shots.

Wow, you're not letting your bias show or anything. Actually, if you read the posts, netdog doesn't really describe how the program runs, or say what problems he's having with performance. His post basically runs through a list of specs, which seems odd to me considering some of the specs he considers inadequate are the same as the MP pro, which has beaten dual G5's in some FCS benchmarks.

Netdog, I'd appreciate some specific details on what you are seeing in terms of performance. As well as any other reports on these apps from other users.

[JackSYi]

I ordered my Black MacBook on Tuesday 7:00am PST, and it has finally shipped!

[MrCrowbar]

Congrats.....any noises or whines????

Yea. Any noises? Fans kicking in (I hate it when laptops do that)?

[netdog]

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

Can we please drop the ALL CAPS AND THE INSULTS? That sort of stuff is much more welcome at AI me thinks. Thanks.

[netdog]

Yea. Any noises? Fans kicking in (I hate it when laptops do that)?

Mine has been silent apart from the optical drive and the occasional sound from the SATA disk. Makes my Intel iMac seem loud, and I can't hear that unless the room in dead silent. Honestly, my television tuner is louder than either. I was fearing the worst after some of the MBPs that found their way out into the field, but this MB is the quietest PC that I have ever owned.

[ManchesterTrix]

I thought you said Motion won't run at all on MacBooks. But according to Leemo is does and is.

Then I thought you said Final Cut Pro won't run on MacBooks.What the hell does that mean? Isn't and won't be supported? What the heck are you talking about?

Well then I owe you an apology. I thought you MEANT won't run when you siad it isn't supported and won't be. My bad. I apologize. :rolleyes:

Oh and congratulations on your semantical acrobatics. :p . You have brilliant english language usage dexterity and flexibility when the FACTS DEFEAT YOUR Original INTENT. I was SO WRONG to challenge your posts trying to tell everyone they can't run FCS on MacBooks. Yeah I should have just let those go. I was so WRONG. I am a really terrible person for taking up space on this server with that kind of rubbish. I am such a DICK. In fact I AM FOOLISH. And I LOOK Foolish TOO.

You are such a name calling wizard when the FACTS DEFEAT your "REALITY".

Right, because saying "It isn't supported" to mean "It isn't supported" is semantics. My original intent was to say that Motion doesn't work and that FCP isn't supported, how hard is this to grasp? And "limited functionality" does not equal works great.

[Leemo]

Been playing with Motion this afternoon.

Haven't got my own material with me at the moment (safely stored in a firewire drive at home) but I have got the recent Mac ads in HD on the machine.

Set up a short 400 frame sequence, dropped in 3 of the ads (in HD resolution), added 3d effects to each, drop shadows, then applied a sharpening filter to one, motion blur filter to the second, and another third-party motion filter that I have to the last one.

Previewed nearly in real time, whilst editing was extremely responsive, and exported the 400 frame sequence in HD resolution with full effects in 55 seconds flat.

I think that's bloody good - can't wait to let this baby get a hold of my own material that I use for my projects.

-Leemo

[Rower_CPU]

I never said FCS will have all the functionality of running it on a Quad or an iMacIntel. I never meant that. I was trying to refute the naysayers who were saying no way in the face of Leemo's numerous reports that it works "Amazingly Well". I think Final Cut Express 3.5 will work great.

And by the way GMA950 supports Quartz Extreme and CoreImage, so it does work fine in spite of its "unsupported" status. You think Apple wants to broadcast that a MacBook is enough to run FCS when they want to sell MacBook Pros to all those guys and gals?

Chill. I'm not trying to come down one way or another on this issue - just sharing some info straight from Apple to add something concrete to all the subjective, anecdotal stuff that's bouncing around in here.

I'm glad to see that folks are getting good results with FCS on MacBooks (see Leemo's post above). I just ordered a mini as a stop-gap machine until I get a 2nd/3rd rev MBP and I'm sure I'll be trying FCS on it. :)

[netdog]

Netdog, I'd appreciate some specific details on what you are seeing in terms of performance. As well as any other reports on these apps from other users.

Why on earth are you guys so determined to make a light notebook into a multimedia workstation? A week ago, Multimedia was warning people not to but Yonahs, but to wait for the Meroms as they would impliment 64-bit architecture, be faster and have a faster bus. I agreed with him and said so, but decided in the end that my needs are so light in terms of computing power on my portable that I would go ahead and buy an MB anyway.

Now you and he are arguing that this is a multimedia workstation? I can ride a bicycle on the freeway, but that doesn't mean that I would want to unless I hadn't a more suitable choice. Suggesting that the MacBook is a multimedia workstation is ludicrous in my opinion. There are much better choices. If you need a portable as a multimedia workhorse, for goodness sake wait until the Merom MBPs come out. You'll get a faster bus, hopefully Firewire 800, and a somewhat bigger screen for those times when you do have to use the portable screen. If you plan to dedicate a monitor to it, just get a desktop that will be faster.

The MB is great for showing video, but cutting video? Makes no sense to me. It's a bicycle on the freeway.

[ccarrieta]

Ordered mine on the 16th with "2 day delivery service" left china today and according to apple it should be here on the 25th:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Anybody have confirmation of the shipping turnaround when ordering directly from apple? My order went out wednesday @ noon, so if it ships in `1-5 days and then takes 2-3 days to arrive I might have it 5/26? I CANT WAIT!!!!!:cool:

[DesmoDog]

NO Fair, you were on the same plane as mine....ughhhhh let me know how it is????

As it turns out, they expect me to do actual work around here? What the???

I didn't get to play around with it much but so far so good. I'm using it in an office lit by flourescent bulbs and there were noticable reflections when the thing was starting up, but once I had it running I didn't notice anything, Yes, if I thought about it and looked for it, I could see reflections, but nothing that will bother me. When I moved from the MacBook to my office Wondoze machine, I noticed how dim the monitor I have here is. I'll probably be turning the brightness down on the Mac... I suppose the whole reflection issue could get worse once I do that? We'll see, I'm not too worried about it.

The keyboard seemed weird for the first minute or so, then I got used to it. I can't type all that well anyway so I didn't have to re-learn much as far as touch typing goes.

Noises don't seem to be an issue either, but my office has a rather loud HVAC vent so it would take quite a bit of noise for me to notice it. I put it to sleep once and had to strain to hear anything when it was awakening. Speaking of sleeping, I just looked over at it and the sleep light cycles on and off. It doesn't blink, it slowly transitions from bright to dim/bright/dim... For whatever reason I imagine/hear sounds when I see lights blink, and I can't look at this one without hearing, well... breathing. Kinda freaky. But that one may just be me...

I think that last little bit may have slipped into the too much information zone so I'll get back to real work now. :o

[DesmoDog]

Ordered mine on the 16th with "2 day delivery service" left china today and according to apple it should be here on the 25th:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Read it more closely.. they likely say by the 25th. From the order staus page go to tracking info, they will have a more realistic estimate there. Even then, mine showed up a day earlier than FedEx estimated.

[netdog]

OMG, I am going to be one of the clowns who pays too much for the black. I am so happy with this machine that I am swapping it tomorrow for the color i really like...black. Hello £120 premium for 20GB and some black dye.

[Chundles]

Speaking of sleeping, I just looked over at it and the sleep light cycles on and off. It doesn't blink, it slowly transitions from bright to dim/bright/dim... For whatever reason I imagine/hear sounds when I see lights blink, and I can't look at this one without hearing, well... breathing. Kinda freaky. But that one may just be me...


Actually, that's the perfect response. When the G3 iMac was introduced it was the first to have a sleep light that moved slowly from fully on to fully off. I think Steve actually said the idea was to show people that the iMac "lived" while it was asleep, that it was ready to go in an instant.

[PaulinMaryland]

OMG, I am going to be one of the clowns who pays too much for the black. Enlighten me: Do you plan to protect MacBook against knocks by encasing it in a "skin"? If not, why not? If so, why pay more for a color you won't see again?

I wouldn't dream of using a $200 MP3 player unprotected, much less a $1200 laptop.

[Multimedia]

Why on earth are you guys so determined to make a light notebook into a multimedia workstation? A week ago, Multimedia was warning people not to but Yonahs, but to wait for the Meroms as they would impliment 64-bit architecture, be faster and have a faster bus. I agreed with him and said so, but decided in the end that my needs are so light in terms of computing power on my portable that I would go ahead and buy an MB anyway.

Now you and he are arguing that this is a multimedia workstation? I can ride a bicycle on the freeway, but that doesn't mean that I would want to unless I hadn't a more suitable choice. Suggesting that the MacBook is a multimedia workstation is ludicrous in my opinion. There are much better choices. If you need a portable as a multimedia workhorse, for goodness sake wait until the Merom MBPs come out. You'll get a faster bus, hopefully Firewire 800, and a somewhat bigger screen for those times when you do have to use the portable screen. If you plan to dedicate a monitor to it, just get a desktop that will be faster.

The MB is great for showing video, but cutting video? Makes no sense to me. It's a bicycle on the freeway.Look. The MacBook is running at almost the fastest speed you can get in a MacIntel today. Leemo (http://forums.macrumors.com/member.php?u=72298) has demonstrated numerous times that the entire Final Cut Studio runs well on it. Workstation? I don't think any of us were talking about Workstations. Yes I still think waiting for Yonah is prudent.

But that doesn't quell my enthusiasm for what is really Apple's First Mobile Professional Mac for under $2k. It has Gigabit Ethernet, supports 1920 x 1200 monitors spanning, has a HUGE SCREEN 1280 x 800 is HUGE and it even has TWO cores running @ 2GHz. So today's low end portable is yesterday's impossible worstation. In that sense I guess MacBook is a workstation. :p I just wrote my self into it. So yes NetDog, MacBook is a workstation from the past. :p

And there is a very good reason for integrated graphics in MacBook - Battery Life. The GMA950 supports Quartz Extreme and CoreImage. It is better than previous generation dedicated video cards. Leemo (http://forums.macrumors.com/member.php?u=72298) has demonstrated it will even let you run Motion 2 in Post #2078. These Integrated Graphics are only going to get better soon with the GMA955 coming up very soon. So I think the argument that Integrated Graphics are a bad thing for this application - mobile battery conservation - is very bogus.

[Cybergypsy]

As it turns out, they expect me to do actual work around here? What the???

I didn't get to play around with it much but so far so good. I'm using it in an office lit by flourescent bulbs and there were noticable reflections when the thing was starting up, but once I had it running I didn't notice anything, Yes, if I thought about it and looked for it, I could see reflections, but nothing that will bother me. When I moved from the MacBook to my office Wondoze machine, I noticed how dim the monitor I have here is. I'll probably be turning the brightness down on the Mac... I suppose the whole reflection issue could get worse once I do that? We'll see, I'm not too worried about it.

The keyboard seemed weird for the first minute or so, then I got used to it. I can't type all that well anyway so I didn't have to re-learn much as far as touch typing goes.

Noises don't seem to be an issue either, but my office has a rather loud HVAC vent so it would take quite a bit of noise for me to notice it. I put it to sleep once and had to strain to hear anything when it was awakening. Speaking of sleeping, I just looked over at it and the sleep light cycles on and off. It doesn't blink, it slowly transitions from bright to dim/bright/dim... For whatever reason I imagine/hear sounds when I see lights blink, and I can't look at this one without hearing, well... breathing. Kinda freaky. But that one may just be me...

I think that last little bit may have slipped into the too much information zone so I'll get back to real work now. :o

I should have mine in my hands by noon tomorrow unless someone screws up..oh wait this is Fed ex not UPS!

[mkrishnan]

Enlighten me: Do you plan to protect MacBook against knocks by encasing it in a "skin"? If not, why not? If so, why pay more for a color you won't see again?

You're going to encase the whole thing in a skin, while you're using it? :eek:

FWIW, have you ever used an iBook before? I have a skin on my iPod, but it's mostly there for the color :D ... and my iPod goes through much rougher handling than my iBook. I can see casing it up when you're transporting it -- I have a Tucano Second Skin, and I have a sleeve built into my backpack for it. But a skin that you use on the computer while you're using it? Erm....

[Cybergypsy]

You're going to encase the whole thing in a skin, while you're using it? :eek:

FWIW, have you ever used an iBook before? I have a skin on my iPod, but it's mostly there for the color :D ... and my iPod goes through much rougher handling than my iBook. I can see casing it up when you're transporting it -- I have a Tucano Second Skin, and I have a sleeve built into my backpack for it. But a skin that you use on the computer while you're using it? Erm....

I have had a ibook for ever and have no problem keeping it perfect

[milo]

Can we please drop the ALL CAPS AND THE INSULTS? That sort of stuff is much more welcome at AI me thinks. Thanks.

The tone was set by the post I was responding to.

Don't take it personally, it wasn't directed at you.

[dr_lha]

Enlighten me: Do you plan to protect MacBook against knocks by encasing it in a "skin"? If not, why not? If so, why pay more for a color you won't see again?

I wouldn't dream of using a $200 MP3 player unprotected, much less a $1200 laptop.
You have to take the thing out of its skin to use it though. AFAIK there are no skins that encase a computer when its on (would be a bad idea for reasons of heat dissappation).

Basically, what the ******* are you on about? ;)

[ImAlwaysRight]

According to an Apple Systems Engineer I know, FCS is not "supported" on machines with integrated graphics.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303470 (this article only mentions the Mac mini, but I'm assuming one for the MacBook will be up soon - it took 2 weeks for this article to get posted after the mini was released)

It's obvious from the screenshots we've seen earlier that these apps will still run, but whether or not they will have full functionality or decent performance is still up for debate.
I just read the following on the XLR8YOURMAC.COM website. Note he ran FCS on a 1.5 Core Solo Mini with the stock 512MB and stock HD, not a 2.0GHz Core Duo MacBook, with the possibility of a user adding 2GB RAM and their own 7200rpm SATA hard drive in a MacBook. (emphasis mine, below)

Intel Core Solo Mini owner comments on running Final Cut Studio 5.1 - In reply to earlier posts if Final Cut Studio would run on an Intel GMA950 (graphics) based Mac:

" Just for the fun of it I installed Final Cut Studio 5.1 on my daughters Mac Mini w/1.5GHz Intel Core Solo processor with 512MB RAM. I have only tried FCP and Motion. I started SoundTrack but have not used it.
Final Cut starts and runs fine. I can capture from my VX2100 camera and edit in the timeline (just basic stuff so far).
Motion also works on this machine (it kicks the crap out of my Powerbook 1.25GHz). Ran the update for Final Cut Pro 5.1.1 and it also starts and does basic edits. So far so good on basic stuff.

(I asked if he had exercised Motion on the Core Solo Mini (i.e. rendering, previews, etc.-Mike)
Done one render of a template I edited, changes text and speed of some assets. All templates run fine. Previews are really slow on first pass but run at decent speed after. Will be testing more things this coming weekend.

Have only used the Mini on a LCD minitor at 1280x1024 will be connecting it to a Dell 2005FPW this weekend also and test at 1680 x 1050.
To say it installed and worked is an understatement, I was blown away it worked!!
I wanted to try it to see if I could use a Mini to edit some basic stuff during the summer here in Phoenix. My two 2x-2GHZz G5's create too much heat so if I could have a solution to capture and do basic edits to cut down on the heat indoors.
Next step is to test a Mini Core Duo.
-Richard M. "

[motuman]

Never Fails, New Apple product, another preponderance of "Negatives" in Mac Rumors Forums

Whenever a new Apple product comes out (especially hardware) I am actually more entertained by visiting the Mac Rumor forums than Apple's own site.

Almost without exception, the "Negative" ratings are in the majority, until a few hours or days, when people actually get a funny thing called "facts" and first hand experinece.

But how could the MacBook, go from, it sucks, to I must have it, it amazes me!

Went to the Grove Apple Store in LA last night, saw the black MacBook Pro, it looks great. Best looking Mac laptop I have ever seen (IMO).

- Yes it was covered in fingerprints, but what do you expect, thats its purpose to be touched by tons of people at the Apple Store.

- the "glossy" screen, after 15 minutes, I didn't notice it, then I said, hey its cool, the colors are nice and the screen is bright. Not sure how it will look outside or how scratch prone is it?

- The keyboard: has the same individual removable keys as in any other Mac laptop of recent years, yes the whole keyboard unit does not lift out. The keyboard felt great to me.

- the "latchless" latch is awesome, magsafe awesome, and user upgradable hard drive very nice also, Gig Ethernet on a consumer laptop, gotta love it.

- Bottom line: it looks great, an performs great, it's fast! (Core Duo 2.0, 768 MB RAM)

I am actually an Apple technology consultant / sys admin, time to test it.

No pro apps on these so I did the best I could:

Launched Garage Band, iMovie and Safari (maybe 7-10 tabs) "simultaneously" all apps were opened in about 10 seconds, then opened Terminal (as fast as I could) and then the top command,

All were doing their thing at the same time, GB only 25-30 % CPU, iMovie 15 %, Safari 8 %. (Granted not huge demanding GB or iMovie projects, but still).

Not bad at all I would say, there was an article on Macsurfer the other day about, recent Mac Book Pro purchasers, might have reason to be upset. They have reason to be.

The Mac Book, performs (at least to me in my quick estimation) as a MBP, minus the screen size and ATI chip.

I would think Apple definitely plans, the "Merom" chip in the MBP, to further differentiate, but I also get this feeling, that the Aluminum case look is out on future MBP's even.

I digress, but I think Apple or the Web Kit team fixed - optimized or something in Safari in the Intel Xcode build, in opening Tabs, it does not hang or Spinning Beach Ball as it does even on a PM G5 Dual 2.0 (PPC).

Or it could just be the Intel Core Duo.

I was talking to a few guys there, (now basically giving a demo) and they said, "Man these are going to sell like hot cakes".

I agree, now who gets the black MacBook Pro, me or my wife

PS, (my PowerBook G4 1.5 GHz, feels like a dinosaur stuck in a tar pit compared to this Intel Mac Book), the PB G4 is just not a usable option for me any longer.

[Rower_CPU]

I just read the following on the XLR8YOURMAC.COM website. Note he ran FCS on a 1.5 Core Solo Mini with the stock 512MB and stock HD, not a 2.0GHz Core Duo, with the possibility of a user adding 2GB RAM and their own 7200rpm SATA hard drive in a MacBook. (emphasis mine, below:)

Yup, saw that article, too. Sounds like good news for MacBook/Intel mini owners trying to run FCS.

[milo]

Why on earth are you guys so determined to make a light notebook into a multimedia workstation?

I'm not, don't go all straw man on me. I'm just asking how Motion performs, and what slowdowns you're seeing with it.

I'm not sure why you're so insistent that these shouldn't be able to run apps like Final Cut Pro. Isn't FCP mostly dependent on the cpu? Does it even accelerate with the gpu at all?

Bus speed is same on the MB as the MPB's. And for video editing, you're best off with a big external drive anyway, it's asking for trouble to use any internal drive on a laptop. I'm just interested in real world performance reports here, with specifics. Benchmarks would be even better. I've already heard plenty of theoretical speculation on what should or shouldn't work, and it hasn't been useful.

[filterban]

But how could the MacBook Pro, go from, it sucks, to I must have it, it amazes me!

Went to the Grove Apple Store in LA last night, saw the black MacBook Pro, it looks great. Best looking Mac laptop I have ever seen (IMO).


There's a black MacBook Pro? :)

I think you mean MacBook, not MacBook Pro...

[sthiede]

i dont want to shell out more money basically just for a superdrive, so is there a way to transfer iDVD projects to a Windows PC and burn it from there...If so, how would i go about it?

[Frozone]

i dont want to shell out more money basically just for a superdrive, so is there a way to transfer iDVD projects to a Windows PC and burn it from there...If so, how would i go about it?

I doubt there is a way to transfer the actual iDVD project, but you could just transfer the video and stuff you're going to burn to a DVD to your Windows PC and use an iDVD equivelant. There's plenty of Window's DVD burning applications.

[drobo]

Agree the specs are good but both the white and black Macbooks look more like PC notebooks than either the old iBook or PowerBook. They look cheap and the keyboard is rubbish. Why have smaller keys with these big gaps all over the place?
This is just about an acceptable upgrade for the iBook but it no way replaces the 12" Powerbook in terms of looks.

[sthiede]

I doubt there is a way to transfer the actual iDVD project, but you could just transfer the video and stuff you're going to burn to a DVD to your Windows PC and use an iDVD equivelant. There's plenty of Window's DVD burning applications.


would the windows programs be able to tell the format? And could you give me some examples of DvD burning apps for windows?

[Frozone]

would the windows programs be able to tell the format? And could you give me some examples of DvD burning apps for windows?

To be honest I'm not quite sure. I've not burned a DVD on Windows in about a year now. We had a windows machine at work with a DVD burner, but I no longer work there soo...

Someone else may know though, but if not I'm sure a quick search on Google will find a lot of results.

[mkrishnan]

i dont want to shell out more money basically just for a superdrive, so is there a way to transfer iDVD projects to a Windows PC and burn it from there...If so, how would i go about it?

iDVD can make an image, but it'll be in the .dmg format, I think. If you can convert it to .iso or somesuch, you should be able to burn it using Nero (or maybe Nero supports .dmg directly now?).

[sthiede]

iDVD can make an image, but it'll be in the .dmg format, I think. If you can convert it to .iso or somesuch, you should be able to burn it using Nero (or maybe Nero supports .dmg directly now?).


are there any other programs that are good besides nero?

[ImNoSuperMan]

Finally a thread on MacBook. Lots of posts as we`ve had till now with every MacBook/iBook rumor. But sans the name debate.


Someone still wanna bet what it wud be called????:D

No matter how frustrating it was at that time. It now seems like an entertainment. God I`ll miss those iBook vs MacBooks debates(or should I say WAR):rolleyes:

[mkrishnan]

are there any other programs that are good besides nero?

What do I look like? A Windows user? :eek: ;) :D

This is pretty good: http://www.alcohol-soft.com/

Roxio probably also has a good product, but I don't know which one specifically... people like Toast on Macs, but I think the equivalent PC product has a different name.

[Multimedia]

According to an Apple Systems Engineer I know, FCS is not "supported" on machines with integrated graphics.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303470 (this article only mentions the Mac mini, but I'm assuming one for the MacBook will be up soon - it took 2 weeks for this article to get posted after the mini was released)

It's obvious from the screenshots we've seen earlier that these apps will still run, but whether or not they will have full functionality or decent performance is still up for debate.I just read the following on the XLR8YOURMAC.COM website. Note he ran FCS on a 1.5 Core Solo Mini with the stock 512MB and stock HD, not a 2.0GHz Core Duo, with the possibility of a user adding 2GB RAM and their own 7200rpm SATA hard drive in a MacBook. (emphasis mine, below)Intel Core Solo Mini owner comments on running Final Cut Studio 5.1 - In reply to earlier posts if Final Cut Studio would run on an Intel GMA950 (graphics) based Mac:

" Just for the fun of it I installed Final Cut Studio 5.1 on my daughters Mac Mini w/1.5GHz Intel Core Solo processor with 512MB RAM. I have only tried FCP and Motion. I started SoundTrack but have not used it.
Final Cut starts and runs fine. I can capture from my VX2100 camera and edit in the timeline (just basic stuff so far).
Motion also works on this machine (it kicks the crap out of my Powerbook 1.25GHz). Ran the update for Final Cut Pro 5.1.1 and it also starts and does basic edits. So far so good on basic stuff.

(I asked if he had exercised Motion on the Core Solo Mini (i.e. rendering, previews, etc.-Mike)
Done one render of a template I edited, changes text and speed of some assets. All templates run fine. Previews are really slow on first pass but run at decent speed after. Will be testing more things this coming weekend.

Have only used the Mini on a LCD minitor at 1280x1024 will be connecting it to a Dell 2005FPW this weekend also and test at 1680 x 1050.
To say it installed and worked is an understatement, I was blown away it worked!!
I wanted to try it to see if I could use a Mini to edit some basic stuff during the summer here in Phoenix. My two 2x-2GHZz G5's create too much heat so if I could have a solution to capture and do basic edits to cut down on the heat indoors.
Next step is to test a Mini Core Duo.
-Richard M. "I think I can rest my case with this post. Thank you all for your lovely and jubilant opinions. I recant any comments about limited functionality with the exception of Multi-Clips and limited to DV and HDV formats. :D

[MrCrowbar]

Mine has been silent apart from the optical drive and the occasional sound from the SATA disk. Makes my Intel iMac seem loud, and I can't hear that unless the room in dead silent. Honestly, my television tuner is louder than either. I was fearing the worst after some of the MBPs that found their way out into the field, but this MB is the quietest PC that I have ever owned.

Thank you so much. The last 12" powerbooks used to be pretty loud if you give them some work to do. Good to know it's quiet. Some people here might want to shoot you for using the term PC for the Macbook, but I'm sure you meant personal computer and not a Wintel mashine. :p

Oh yea, about that hard drive: I was in al the geek stores here today and asked for a 2,5" SATA drive with at least 120 GB. First of all, you can't buy ANY SATA 2,5" drives in stores here... and I found very few 160 GB drives actually. One is the Fujitsu MHV2160BT, but it's only 4200 rom and has 2 cylinders. So... will a 12mm thick hard drive fit into the Macbooks? I'd take the 120 GB as BTO option if I can't find a drive but it's so unreasonably expensive... Screw Apple for giving me easy access to the HDD! :D

[MrCrowbar]

are there any other programs that are good besides nero?

CloneDVD opens .ISO-files well. Alcohol 120% works well too.

[nem3015]

Hi everybody,

I haven't had time to check all the posts so firgive me if somebody already did, but I was playing with some numbers in order to upgrade the mac book memory and hard drive without giving a leg and an eye to Apple.

This is what I found:
Subtotal $2,049.00

* 2.0GHz Intel Core Duo
* 2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
* 120GB Serial ATA drive
* SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
* AirPort Extreme Card & Bluetooth

This is from the Apple store, starting with the white mac book 2.0 (I don't care about the black but if you like it just add 200) and adding 2Gb memory ($500) and a 120Gb disk for $250 more so total $2049

Digging around (not too much to tell the truth) I found:

Memory --- 1 Gb x 2 ----$112 x 2 = $224 (-$226 compared with Apple Store)
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/5300DDR2S1GB/

Hard Drive --- Seagate 120Gb Momentus 5400rpm ---- $176.99 (-$73 compared with Apple Store)
http://www.fadfusion.com/selection.php?product_item_number=10060604527

So total will be $1299 +$224 +$177 = $1700 with a total saving of $349 from Apple Store

Note: I used the same disk speed to make a valid comparison but there is other options too like 7200rpm. Even if they are more expensive the saving in the memory compensate for that and is still below the Apple Store for at least $200

Let me know if you could find better prices. :cool:

[MrCrowbar]

Digging around (not too much to tell the truth) I found:

Memory --- 1 Gb x 2 ----$112 x 2 = $224 (-$226 compared with Apple Store)
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/5300DDR2S1GB/

Hard Drive --- Seagate 120Gb Momentus 5400rpm ---- $176.99 (-$73 compared with Apple Store)
http://www.fadfusion.com/selection.php?product_item_number=10060604527

So total will be $1299 +$224 +$177 = $1700 with a total saving of $349 from Apple Store

[...]

Let me know if you could find better prices. :cool:

Didn't I see 2 GB of RAM for 140 total in these forums?
And thanks for that hard drive. Note that you are opting for a nice Seagate drive, unlike the cheaper ones in the Macbooks. Not saying they're not good, but the Seagate Momentus are pretty durable and extremely quiet. I got a 40 GB 4200 rpm in my laptop and it's much quieter than the HDD it replaces. Tell me if you find a 160 GB SATA drive that's not extra thick.

PS: What will you do with the hard drive that ships with your Mac? I'd love to use it as an external HDD, but I've yet to see external 2,5" SATA cases.

[retroz311]

Didn't I see 2 GB of RAM for 140 in these forums?
And thanks for that hard drive. Note that you are optiong for a nice Seagate drive, unlie the cheaper ones in the Macbooks. Not saying they're not good, but the Seagate Momentus are pretty durable and extremely quiet. Tell me if you find a 160 GB SATA drive that's not extra thick.


Ok, well I've read 1-63, what was the outcome on Final Cut Universal, Motion, 3D swift for these? Anyone know yet?

Can someone start a Final Cut, Motion Thread?

I can't seem to start a thread for some reason!

thanks!

[nem3015]

Like I said I didn't read all the posts lol (too many) and also I didn't dig too much. The goal was have the most compatible products (and OWC has been a long time Mac upgrade company) and better price. Is just a matter of time to find the 160. I think Fujitsu already have it and they just released some news unveiling the 200Gb one, so size permitting... hopefully will still be cheaper than Apple Store :p

[MrCrowbar]

There go the first problems with the integrated graohics:

http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/~jdwaller/macbook/01-ISSUES_top_screwy.JPG

from http://www.johnwaller.org/apple/macbook/

[rhsgolfer33]

Agree the specs are good but both the white and black Macbooks look more like PC notebooks than either the old iBook or PowerBook. They look cheap and the keyboard is rubbish. Why have smaller keys with these big gaps all over the place?
This is just about an acceptable upgrade for the iBook but it no way replaces the 12" Powerbook in terms of looks.

I personally love the new keyboards, I type almost as fast on it as I do on my apple desktop keyboard. The keys arent really any smaller and the gaps actually seemed to help with errors, since its not as compact as a regular laptop keyboard I didnt accidentally hit a key while hitting another letter. Keyboards are personally preference though, same with looks since I love both the black and white macbooks.

[MrCrowbar]

Like I said I didn't read all the posts lol (too many) and also I didn't dig too much. The goal was have the most compatible products (and OWC has been a long time Mac upgrade company) and better price. Is just a matter of time to find the 160. I think Fujitsu already have it and they just released some news unveiling the 200Gb one, so size permitting... hopefully will still be cheaper than Apple Store :p

Problem is, the 160 GB drives I know of seem to be too thick to go into the Macbooks. Has anyone details about the stock hard drives? I need some numbers about power consumption and tech details. I had a site where the hardware details were listed, but caan't find it anymore...

EDIT: Found it: http://www.johnwaller.org/apple/macbook/

[nem3015]

Enclosures for the old disk:
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/ME25AUFW/
http://www.cooldrives.com/almiposa25in.html
under $36

As for the disk, Fujitsu have one but is 12,5 mm height so doesn't fit

Seagate on SATA 2.5 only goes up to 120 ... for now

they are coming... soon, keep tuned lol :D

[poppe]

So I went to CompUSA today because the Apple store is 45 minutes away vs. CompUSA which is 15. The CompUSA just received 2 white MB when I arrived and holy hell.

I said are you putting any one display? They responded by saying "You want to see it don't you" They quickly brough one out and opened up the box. The booted up OS X and damn that thing was beautiful.

I'm not much for white or non Super Power House laptops, but wow...

It was so sleak and elegant. Usually white to me seems a little consumer but this thing with that new screen was stellar. Its screen looked better than the MBP 17", but ofcourse that could be just the reflective screen.

To me it seemed faster than when I tested out the 15" and 17" models a few days earlier ( i mean faster by how quickly it opened everything).

If I was even questioning for a smaller end laptop I would be dying... just dying... I woudn't be able to hold up for the Merom chips at all.

One thing to note: I type super sloppy. I mean my fingers fly everywhere and on big keepboards I run a 97% accuracy rate at like 50 wpm, but on this new keyboard I was a total mess. The CompUSA guys kept watching me fiddle with it, and kept looking at me like I was drunk. I'm positive after sometime typing would be simple and the laptop would be seductive.

Seriously if that had a monster video card I'd be quickly doubting buying a 17" MBP. I sadly didn't get to see a black one, but I'm attracted to shiney things so I'm assuming I much wouldn't like the black. I know you all say that if it was the way of the nano it'd get all scratched up, but oh man there is no way I could stop myself from buying one.

If anyone who hasn't seen it yet, make the drive to see it. To me it was so worth it. OS X and everything with it looked stellar!

[nem3015]

200 gb from Fujitsu but is 4200rpm and is 12.5 mm :(

http://www.fujitsu.com/us/services/computing/storage/hdd/mobile/mhv2200bt-sata.html

Specs for the stock drive:

http://www.fujitsu.com/us/services/computing/storage/hdd/mobile/mhv2120bh-sata.html

[Harthansen]

Wow, you sure have a lot of opinions! I think that you should apply for a job at Apple. After a few years of working your way up the corporate ladder, you may even be able to get Steve Jobs' job! And then, with your grand ideas and perseverence, I'm sure you can run Apple into the ground in no time at all.

Talk about scary, your blind allegiance is what lets Apple charge $150 for a paint job. Not to mention, your total lack creativity or any kind of intelligent response but unfounded criticisms without any reasoning or facts to back them up.

Do you always just mumble insults at anything that doesn't match your own views, without actually stating a view.

-Hart

[Multimedia]

Digging around (not too much to tell the truth) I found:

Memory --- 1 Gb x 2 ----$112 x 2 = $224 (-$226 compared with Apple Store)
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other.../5300DDR2S1GB/

Hard Drive --- Seagate 120Gb Momentus 5400rpm ---- $176.99 (-$73 compared with Apple Store)
http://www.fadfusion.com/selection.p...er=10060604527

So total will be $1299 +$224 +$177 = $1700 with a total saving of $349 from Apple Store

[...]

Let me know if you could find better prices.You can score the new Seagate 160GB 2.5" SATA Drive for about $250. Is it too thick like the Fujitsu?

And yes Mr. Crowbar that was me who has been trying to get everyone to buy Omni OPTIVAL 1GB sticks for $72 each if you click on the found price at Ramseeker.com (http://ramseeker.com). You search for MacBook Pro (same ram as MacBook) ram at top then click on the PRICE which is the secret link to Omni where you will be allowed to purchase all you want for $71.99 each.

Total $394 instead of $401 with another 40GB opf HD space.Didn't I see 2 GB of RAM for 140 total in these forums?
And thanks for that hard drive. Note that you are opting for a nice Seagate drive, unlike the cheaper ones in the Macbooks. Not saying they're not good, but the Seagate Momentus are pretty durable and extremely quiet. I got a 40 GB 4200 rpm in my laptop and it's much quieter than the HDD it replaces. Tell me if you find a 160 GB SATA drive that's not extra thick.

PS: What will you do with the hard drive that ships with your Mac? I'd love to use it as an external HDD, but I've yet to see external 2,5" SATA cases.

[Mord]

a macbook i used at the regent street apple store wouldn't wake from sleep, has anyone elce has this problem?

[MrCrowbar]

You can score the new Seagate 160 GB 2.5" SATA Drive for about $250. And yes that was me who has been trying to get everyone to buy Omni OPTIVAL 1GB sticks for $72 each if you click on the found price at Ramseeker.com (http://ramseeker.com). You search for MacBook Pro (same ram as MacBook) ram at top then click on the PRICE which is the secret link to Omni where you will be allowed to purchase all you want for $71.99 each

Yea, but does the big drive fit into the Macbook? It's thicker than the usual 9,5mm.

I compared two 120 SATA drives. The Seagate ST9120821AS and the Fujitsu MHV2120BH. They both should fit nicely into the Macbook (the Fudjutsu should be what you get with thew Apple BTO). Here are the specs: http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/discsales/personal/family/0,1085,676,00.html http://www.fujitsu.com/us/services/computing/storage/hdd/mobile/mhv2120bh-sata.html

As far as I can tell, the Fujitsu is slightly superior to the Seagate, except it's 0.2 bels louder :rolleyes:
Of course, e very company has its own measurement standards... Can anyone tell me which one to buy? They're cheap on eBay (I've seen new ones for 130 bucks).

Still looking for an external SATA enclosure where I would put the stock HDD that comes witht the Macbooks...

EDIT: Finally found some external SATA cases. So you can buy a stock Macbook, swap the HDD and put the "old" one into an external case and plug it into the USB port. And it's still cheaper than having only one HDD with the Apple BTO option.

[daneoni]

a macbook i used at the regent street apple store wouldn't wake from sleep, has anyone elce has this problem?

I noticed this as well but i think it was due to the MacBook trying to safe sleep. I got around this by pressing the actual power button which seems to cancel the process.

[Mord]

i did that too...

[MrCrowbar]

I noticed this as well but i think it was due to the MacBook trying to safe sleep. I got around this by pressing the actual power button which seems to cancel the process.

The Macbook Pros need some time to sleep/wake up too. How can I toggle safe sleep anyway? Safe sleep is when it Backups the RAM content on the hard drive, right? I wanna do that on my iMac too...

[daneoni]

The Macbook Pros need some type to sleep/wake up too. How can I toggle safe sleep anyway?

With the MBPs as well as the PB, i find i have to actualy wait for the computer sleep/wake. I'm sure there is a Terminal workaround but i dunno it.

[CraigWallace]

these were of course released right after I bought an iPod Nano:(

[Frozone]

these were of course released right after I bought an iPod Nano:(

What does a Nano have to do with the MacBook?

[nem3015]

You can score the new Seagate 160GB 2.5" SATA Drive for about $250. Is it too thick like the Fujitsu?

And yes Mr. Crowbar that was me who has been trying to get everyone to buy Omni OPTIVAL 1GB sticks for $72 each if you click on the found price at Ramseeker.com (http://ramseeker.com). You search for MacBook Pro (same ram as MacBook) ram at top then click on the PRICE which is the secret link to Omni where you will be allowed to purchase all you want for $71.99 each.

Total $394 instead of $401 with another 40GB opf HD space.

where you found the Seagate SATA for 250? On the seagate website the SATAs only go up to 120. The new 160 is PATA (Parallel ATA) plus is thicker and will not fit.

The memory is cool for 72 so on my macbook would be 1299+144+177= 1620 so a total saving of 429 compared with apple store. If we keep find stuff like this the memory will be like free ($500) lol :D

[MrCrowbar]

There go the first problems with the integrated graohics:

http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/~jdwaller/macbook/01-ISSUES_top_screwy.JPG

from http://www.johnwaller.org/apple/macbook/

Has anyone the same problem?

[nem3015]

Yea, but does the big drive fit into the Macbook? It's thicker than the usual 9,5mm.

I compared two 120 SATA drives. The Seagate ST9120821AS and the Fujitsu MHV2120BH. They both should fit nicely into the Macbook (the Fudjutsu should be what you get with thew Apple BTO). Here are the specs: http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/discsales/personal/family/0,1085,676,00.html http://www.fujitsu.com/us/services/computing/storage/hdd/mobile/mhv2120bh-sata.html

As far as I can tell, the Fujitsu is slightly superior to the Seagate, except it's 0.2 bels louder :rolleyes:
Of course, e very company has its own measurement standards... Can anyone tell me which one to buy? They're cheap on eBay (I've seen new ones for 130 bucks).

Still looking for an external SATA enclosure where I would put the stock HDD that comes witht the Macbooks...

EDIT: Finally found some external SATA cases. So you can buy a stock Macbook, swap the HDD and put the "old" one into an external case and plug it into the USB port. And it's still cheaper than having only one HDD with the Apple BTO option.

I would go with the Seagate because of the >Perpendicular technology
:cool:

[Multimedia]

where you found the Seagate SATA for 250? On the seagate website the SATAs only go up to 120. The new 160 is PATA (Parallel ATA) plus is thicker and will not fit.

The memory is cool for 72 so on my macbook would be 1299+144+177= 1620 so a total saving of 429 compared with apple store. If we keep find stuff like this the memory will be like free ($500) lol :DThanks. I didn't know the Seagate 160 is only PATA. I thought they offered it in both flavors. I'm also surprised they are thicker. That's pretty lame since most mobile designs only allow for the standard thickness. So 120GB is the top in Reality Land. :)

Are we 100% sure there isn't any wiggle room for the fatter SATA Drives in the MacBook's SATA Slot? Anybody?
Yea, but does the big drive fit into the Macbook? It's thicker than the usual 9,5mm.

I compared two 120 SATA drives. The Seagate ST9120821AS and the Fujitsu MHV2120BH. They both should fit nicely into the Macbook (the Fudjutsu should be what you get with thew Apple BTO). Here are the specs: http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/discsales/personal/family/0,1085,676,00.html http://www.fujitsu.com/us/services/computing/storage/hdd/mobile/mhv2120bh-sata.html

As far as I can tell, the Fujitsu is slightly superior to the Seagate, except it's 0.2 bels louder :rolleyes:
Of course, e very company has its own measurement standards... Can anyone tell me which one to buy? They're cheap on eBay (I've seen new ones for 130 bucks).

Still looking for an external SATA enclosure where I would put the stock HDD that comes witht the Macbooks...

EDIT: Finally found some external SATA cases. So you can buy a stock Macbook, swap the HDD and put the "old" one into an external case and plug it into the USB port. And it's still cheaper than having only one HDD with the Apple BTO option.Good info. Didn't do my research on that one. May I vote a preference for Seagate since they are USA engineered in my home County of Santa Cruz CA? Plus quieter. Are the 120's also the new perpendicular technology? I thought that was only for the 160s.

NOTE: I recently discovered it is a good idea to always give posts titles in order to find old ones more easily when you search by author. :)

[Multimedia]

i dont want to shell out more money basically just for a superdrive, so is there a way to transfer iDVD projects to a Windows PC and burn it from there...If so, how would i go about it?Yes. See Next Post. Thanks Matticus008. :) Instructions are you save as disk image. Then use your Gigabit Ethernet network to copy the image over to the PC for burning in a flash. My brain went temporarily dead. Sorry 'bout that.

Or you can easily assemble an external FW400 DL DVD recorder for about $75 with an internal Pioneer DVR-111 and a 5.25" FW400 case. So you save $125 on the MacBook and have a dual layer recorder outside. I think the main reason for buying the Superdrive model is convenience. In a pinch, it may come in handy from time to time. But the speed difference between the Combo and SD models is an insignificant 8%. But the 2GHz white SuperDive model may retain a higher resale value. Tough choice.

[matticus008]

No but you can easily assemble an external FW400 DL DVD recorder for about $75 with an internal Pioneer DVR-111 and a 5.25" FW400 case.
All right, everyone stop!

The answer is not no, not by a long shot. You can easily save an image file from iDVD or Disk Utility, transfer it to a Windows PC, and burn the image. The number of people saying this isn't possible is downright startling. This isn't the thread for the instructions and tips on the process, but let's get the answer right and leave it at that.

[louden]

Exactly. Amen. Imagine having this amazing suite iLife and not being able burn movies of all your good times at college unless your drop 1300+

Actually, what I'd like to see is a MacBook with no internal CD/DVD drive. I'd much rather havea an optional external drive and keep a portable razr thin and light.

[astaples]

Well boys (and girls), I hate to say it, but I caved and bought the black. On the apple website it looks terrible (like a winbook), but at the apple store in person ... fell in love. Even my fiancee who didn't want me to buy one at all thought the black was worth the extra bucks. It's not - there is nothing that costs Apple $200 more to make this - but it sure does look damn cool (excuse my typical American ways of thinking about this).

People had previously been asking "does this work with the MB" etc. If anyone wants, send me a message and I'll do whatever tests for compatability that I can. I've got a 1.5GHz G4 PB that I haven't sold yet, so I can do very good side-by-sides. I can already tell you that loading MS Office using Rosetta is basically the same speed as loading it natively on the PB. That really surprised me (happily, of course).

[Multimedia]

Well boys (and girls), I hate to say it, but I caved and bought the black. On the apple website it looks terrible (like a winbook), but at the apple store in person ... fell in love. Even my fiancee who didn't want me to buy one at all thought the black was worth the extra bucks. It's not - there is nothing that costs Apple $200 more to make this - but it sure does look damn cool (excuse my typical American ways of thinking about this).

People had previously been asking "does this work with the MB" etc. If anyone wants, send me a message and I'll do whatever tests for compatability that I can. I've got a 1.5GHz G4 PB that I haven't sold yet, so I can do very good side-by-sides. I can already tell you that loading MS Office using Rosetta is basically the same speed as loading it natively on the PB. That really surprised me (happily, of course).Congratulations! How Did You Change Her Mind to let you buy it? You mean she didn't want you to buy it until she saw it in person with you? And you didn't buy her a white one? :confused: :eek:

Are you not an American? :confused:

Good story. But it would be nice to know more details of what happened when you got to the store and saw it in the flesh for the first time since you seemed to be predisposed to NOT buying it.

[nem3015]

Thanks. I didn't know the Seagate 160 is only PATA. I thought they offered it in both flavors. I'm also surprised they are thicker. That's pretty lame since most mobile designs only allow for the standard thickness. So 120GB is the top in Reality Land. :)

Are we 100% sure there isn't any wiggle room for the fatter SATA Drives in the MacBook's SATA Slot? Anybody?
Good info. Didn't do my research on that one. May I vote a preference for Seagate since they are USA engineered in my home County of Santa Cruz CA? Plus quieter. Are the 120's also the new perpendicular technology? I thought that was only for the 160s.

NOTE: I recently discovered it is a good idea to always give posts titles in order to find old ones more easily when you search by author. :)

If I read well apparently even with the perpendicular technology (and yes both the SATAs and PATAs from Seagate use it, so far all the Momentus line) when you go beyond the 120 they use 3 platters instead of two, and that is the reason of the thickness going to 12.5 mm. Now that you have a Black MacBook you can probably open the harddrive and see if there is an extra 3 mm between the disk and the plate, of course there should be some space for ventilation and maybe the bigger disk will fill that space resulting in overheating.
Btw, we almost neighboars, I live in Pleasanton, maybe we should met someday.

:D

[netdog]

I think I can rest my case with this post. Thank you all for your lovely and jubilant opinions. I recant any comments about limited functionality with the exception of Multi-Clips and limited to DV and HDV formats. :D

Enjoy your MacBook multimedia workstation. You're right Multi. It's an $1,100 Avid. Sure it is. :rolleyes:

[bloodycape]

As we showed earlier this year, games can in fact be played with integrated graphics, but not very well. Our tests of the Dell Latitude D610 with the 900GMA integrated graphics core and 915GM chipset showed that smooth gaming above VGA resolution was not possible when playing Doom3 or Farcry. But at least you can get some of the newer, graphically-intensive games to run without a graphics card - which wasn't always the case in the past.

For some, Intel's lack of graphics focus for game support is unbecoming of the world's largest graphics processor vendor. Intel's integrated graphics GMA 950 core supports DirectX 9 and offers up to 10.6 GB/s memory bandwidth, 667 MHz DDR2 and 1.6 Gpixels/s and 1.6 Gtexels/s fill rates. Despite this, the device still has far to go for acceptable game play, according to Mark Rein, vice president for Epic Games, the developer of the Unreal graphics engine and game series. "Before our release of Unreal 2007, we hope that Intel becomes competitive," Rein said. "But today's very popular games, which are not next-generation games, are virtually unplayable for anybody that cares about gaming. Our fingers are crossed."

hmmmm interesting

[faintember]

I was wanting a 15" MBP to replace my 15" TiBook. With the new Macbook, i believe it is the better buy for me.

I do absolutely nothing GPU intensive, and the main computing concerns for me are RAM, HD speed and processor speed. The Macbook has the same max RAM, can be easily upgraded (HD and RAM), and the processor speed is the same as the MBP (albeit the 2.16). I care nothing for glowing keyboards or the expresscard slot.

Some people are still saying the MBP are for the "Pros". Well maybe the gaming pros or the visual artist professionals, however for my field (audio) the Macbook is perfect. The inclusion of FW 400 and USB 2.0 really make the Macbook an option for those of us who use external audio interfaces.

I plan on going to the Durham NC store tomorrow and checking one out, and probably buying (the 2ghz white model) and then upgrading the HD to the Hitachi Travelstar 7200rpm 100gig and adding a 1gig stick of RAM to bump the RAM to 1.25gigs. After my edu discount, the HD and the stick of RAM i will still be under $1600, when a comparable MBP would be over $2300. Thats a $700 difference. That makes me giddy.:cool:

If anyone sees any flaws with my logic, please feel free to point them out.

[bloodycape]

Anyone know if the dvd drive can be upgraded to the aftermarket dual layer dvd drives that are being sold for the iBook? From the pics I saw it looks like the GFX maybe upgradable but only to other intel chips like the 950+(or something) i read about.

[Multimedia]

Anyone know if the dvd drive can be upgraded to the aftermarket dual layer dvd drives that are being sold for the iBook? From the pics I saw it looks like the GFX maybe upgradable but only to other intel chips like the 950+(or something) i read about.Why Upgrade To Dual Layer And Blow Your Applecare? Plus it cost too much compared to an external for $75. Some company will offer it soon. But I wouldn't do it. :rolleyes:

[matticus008]

Anyone know if the dvd drive can be upgraded to the aftermarket dual layer dvd drives that are being sold for the iBook? From the pics I saw it looks like the GFX maybe upgradable but only to other intel chips like the 950+(or something) i read about.
No, they won't fit in the MacBook. If they did, they'd already be in the MacBook. The second part of your comment doesn't seem to be about the DVD drive, but if you're saying the MacBook graphics are upgradeable, they absolutely are not.

[knackroller]

good work, apple. Would this be better than say the old powerbooks 1.5....?

[daneoni]

The Macbook Pros need some time to sleep/wake up too. How can I toggle safe sleep anyway? Safe sleep is when it Backups the RAM content on the hard drive, right? I wanna do that on my iMac too...

This (http://www.andrewescobar.com/archive/2005/11/11/how-to-safe-sleep-your-mac/) will tell you all you need to know about safe sleep as well as how to enable it on any mac running 10.4.3 or later. Enjoy

[Diddiyo]

Sorry if this has already been posted before.

Here's a Doom3, UT2004, Quake3 Benchmark between a mac mini G4 (radeon 9200) and a mac mini intel (gma 950). though the text is in german, i guess you will understand the images and it will help you to compare the graphic cards.

http://games4mac.de/content_g4m/benchmarks/macmini_intel.php

hmpf!

[milo]

There go the first problems with the integrated graohics:

http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/~jdwaller/macbook/01-ISSUES_top_screwy.JPG

from http://www.johnwaller.org/apple/macbook/

Looks like something is just broken on his machine, either the hardware is messed up or he needs to do a software reinstall. I'd be shocked if that has anything to do with the integrated graphics, it's the same chip as the mini and I've never seen anything like that.

Enjoy your MacBook multimedia workstation. You're right Multi. It's an $1,100 Avid. Sure it is. :rolleyes:

My favorite part of this whole discussion is the complete lack of any middle ground. If it can't do everything an avid can, it's completely worthless for editing any video. Right.

You still haven't explained what poor results you've seen running FCP on one of these. Which features don't work? What were you trying to do that ran unacceptably slow? Honestly, I'd love to see some FCP benchmarks comparing the MB and MBP. (macworld has already posted general benchmarks, and the MB is almost as fast as the MBP on most of theirs)


Anyone know if the dvd drive can be upgraded to the aftermarket dual layer dvd drives that are being sold for the iBook? From the pics I saw it looks like the GFX maybe upgradable but only to other intel chips like the 950+(or something) i read about.

If it's the same space constraints as the 15, no. The 15 uses a 9mm drive, so far dual layer burners are only available as 12mm. If there was a drive that fit, I'm sure apple would use it.

[chatman6010]

so...
i just got a new 2GHZ, white macbook yesterday...

and the only problem i have had so far...

is the OS X system, freazing up at startup when the Security Update 2006-003 (intel) Vers.1 is updated...

can anyone tell me why this is happening...had to reinstall the system to revert back to the origanal

also, keyboard is awesome, it takes some time to get used to, but it is pretty nice.

[ImAlwaysRight]

Are we 100% sure there isn't any wiggle room for the fatter SATA Drives in the MacBook's SATA Slot? Anybody?
As one who has already put a few hard drives in their MacBook, I can say that a 12.5mm drive would not fit. Sorry. That's 99% certain since I actually haven't tried it, but I don't see an extra 3mm going in there.

I'm happy to report my 100GB 7200rpm Hitachi drive is chugging along just fine. :)

[Dark Horse]

EDIT: Finally found some external SATA cases. So you can buy a stock Macbook, swap the HDD and put the "old" one into an external case and plug it into the USB port. And it's still cheaper than having only one HDD with the Apple BTO option.

Where did you find these beasts?

[filterban]

Sorry if this has already been posted before.

Here's a Doom3, UT2004, Quake3 Benchmark between a mac mini G4 (radeon 9200) and a mac mini intel (gma 950). though the text is in german, i guess you will understand the images and it will help you to compare the graphic cards.

http://games4mac.de/content_g4m/benchmarks/macmini_intel.php

hmpf!

Does anyone know if Doom 3, UT2004, and Quake 3 are Universal Binaries? If not, that would account for a lot of the speed difference.

[Multimedia]

Deleted Joke

[Cybergypsy]

Just got mine....its just amazing and love the screen.....pic will be on link below...

[PaulinMaryland]

According to Seagate's specsheet (PDF) (http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_momentus5400.pdf), the Momentus 160 is no thicker than the 120. Am I missing something?

Transfer rate is identical, too. So is PATA truly a disadvantage here?

Here are the Momentus 160 US eBay listings (http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&from=R10&maxrecordsreturned=300&catref=C6&frpp=50&satitle=seagate+momentus+-4200+-80gb+-100gb+5400.3&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&bs=Search&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&floc=1&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D3&sappl=1&sascs=2&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=).

[mkrishnan]

Transfer rate is identical, too. So is PATA truly a disadvantage here?

What do you mean by disadvantage? It won't *work* in a MacBook or MacBook Pro unless it's a SATA drive. The adaptors are not compatible. Is that disadvantage enough? ;)

[Multimedia]

According to Seagate's specsheet (PDF) (http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_momentus5400.pdf), the Momentus 160 is no thicker than the 120. Am I missing something?

Transfer rate is identical, too. So is PATA truly a disadvantage here?

Here are the Momentus 160 US eBay listings (http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&from=R10&maxrecordsreturned=300&catref=C6&frpp=50&satitle=seagate+momentus+-4200+-80gb+-100gb+5400.3&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&bs=Search&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&floc=1&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D3&sappl=1&sascs=2&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=).That's sort of good news. You are correct that the 160 is only 9.5mm thick. So I'm getting very excited. 160GB inside a MacBook will be AWESOME. SATA version is coming in July. PATA Connectors Are Completely Different Than SATA Connectors so this one won't work at all.

On phone with Seagate Corporate Communications now. He confirms SATA Version of 160 ships July. So if you can hold off two months or so the Seagate Momentus 5400 160 SATA should be out by end of July at the latest.

[Cybergypsy]

I really love this mac...quiet and more Balanced then my 12 ibook....no sticking keys and love the screen....so perfect in every way

[PaulinMaryland]

What do you mean by disadvantage? It won't *work* in a MacBook or MacBook Pro unless it's a SATA drive. The adaptors are not compatible. Is that disadvantage enough? ;)OK, I get it. At any rate, the 120 Seagate Momentus 5400.2 is looking mighty attractive. As I write, eBay prices are about $178+ shipping, but Froogle turns up reputable dealers (4 stars) selling them for about $152 plus shipping (http://froogle.google.com/froogle_cluster?pid=4803545656411167578&oid=14720883207934596436&btnG=Search+Froogle&q=seagate+ST9120821A&lmode=online&scoring=p). With 2GB of RAM available for $144 and now this, the base MacBook is looking more attractive all the time...

[PaulinMaryland]

...if I live in a state other than MacMall? I realize that most dealers don't; I just want to make sure there are no gotchas. Without sales tax, MacMall's shipped price for the base model ($1044 + $10.52 shipping) will beat my daughter's "education price" ($1050 shipped + $52.50 sales tax).

[PaulinMaryland]

That's sort of good news. Perhaps an SATA version is coming soon. Yep: From ViperLair.com's review (http://www.viperlair.com/reviews/storage/hdd/seagate/54003/): "A SATA version will be forthcoming, but the ETA is unknown at this point."

(added from silentpcreview.com (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article298-page1.html):) "A SATA version of the drive will be available 'later this year'."

[mkrishnan]

...if I live in a state other than MacMall? I realize that most dealers don't; I just want to make sure there are no gotchas. Without sales tax, MacMall's shipped price for the base model ($1044 + $10.52 shipping) will beat my daughter's "education price" ($1050 shipped + $52.50 sales tax).

It sounds like they are one of the companies that charges tax based on your destination. There are some that only charge in certain states, and leave you to declare use tax, if you are required to do so, when they don't charge tax on your behalf...

Applicable Taxes
Any sales, use or other applicable tax is based on the location to which the order is shipped. If you believe your purchases are not subject to sales tax, please contact your Account Executive for assistance at (800) 622-6255.

Link (http://www.macmall.com/macmall/information/customer_service/terms_service.asp#5)

Mmm, 120GB of HD space sounds on my notebook sounds awfully tempting right now. :o At least it will until I get closer to filling the 160GB HD on my iMac. :o

[Multimedia]

Yep: From ViperLair.com's review (http://www.viperlair.com/reviews/storage/hdd/seagate/54003/): "A SATA version will be forthcoming, but the ETA is unknown at this point."

(added from silentpcreview.com (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article298-page1.html):) "A SATA version of the drive will be available 'later this year'."JULY FOR SUREAccording to Seagate's specsheet (PDF), the Momentus 160 is no thicker than the 120 (http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_momentus5400.pdf). Am I missing something?You are correct that the 160 is only 9.5mm thick. So I'm getting very excited. 160GB inside a MacBook will be AWESOME. SATA version ships in JULY.

On phone with Seagate Corporate Communications now. Have confirmation from them that the SATA Version of the Momentus 160GB 9.5mm thick HD ships in JULY. So if you can hold off two months or so the Seagate Momentus 5400 160 SATA should be out by end of July at the latest.:)

[faintember]

I called my local Apple store to see if they had the Macbook in. They did.
The salesperson tried to talk me into the black Macbook over the phone to which i replied that i was not interested b/c i will be upgrading the RAM and the HD. Here is the convo that follows:

Me: I plan on upgrading the HD and RAM ASAP.

Her: That will void your warranty.

Me: Well as the RAM and HD are user-serviceable parts, i dont see how that is possible.

Her: If you "crack the case open" you void the warranty.

Me: Well you dont have to do that. You simply just (insert RAM and HD replacement procedure)

Her: Silence

So who is really right? I doubt Apple would be able to tell the difference if i had to send it in for service, especially if i sent it in with the original HD in it.

Can anyone enlighten me as to whom is correct? Thanks in advance.

edit: the manual located here (http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/MacBook_13inch_Memory_DIY.pdf) mentions: "Before you can remove the hard drive, you must remove the battery and RAM door.

[Cybergypsy]

Oh NOOOOOOO they do not include the white apple stickers anymore.........ughhhhhhhhhh

[PaulinMaryland]

[B]So if you can hold off two months or so the Seagate Momentus 5400 160 SATA should be out by end of July at the latest.:)Thanks, Multimedia! I can wait, but can my daughter? :) She starts college in midAugust and wants time to get used to her Mac.

For the rest of us, the 5400.3's superior shock resistance (350 g's vs. 250 for the 5400.2) is worth the price of admission--well, I guess we'll have to see what the price is.

How do the Fujis rate for shock resistance?

[MrCrowbar]

Oh NOOOOOOO they do not include the white apple stickers anymore.........ughhhhhhhhhh

Whaaaat? This is serous. Maybe you get black ones when you have the black Macbook... :p

[filterban]

I called my local Apple store to see if they had the Macbook in. They did.
The salesperson tried to talk me into the black Macbook over the phone to which i replied that i was not interested b/c i will be upgrading the RAM and the HD. Here is the convo that follows:

Me: I plan on upgrading the HD and RAM ASAP.

Her: That will void your warranty.

Me: Well as the RAM and HD are user-serviceable parts, i dont see how that is possible.

Her: If you "crack the case open" you void the warranty.

Me: Well you dont have to do that. You simply just (insert RAM and HD replacement procedure)

Her: Silence

So who is really right? I doubt Apple would be able to tell the difference if i had to send it in for service, especially if i sent it in with the original HD in it.

Can anyone enlighten me as to whom is correct? Thanks in advance.

Well, I don't know for sure, but you're right. They can't tell if you replace the disk and when it came time to send it in for service you switched back. I think the problem is that Apple has not communicated down to the retail store level an official decision on the MacBook hard disk.

RAM replacement has never voided your warranty in the past, and even hard disk replacement doesn't on a desktop. Apple employees are probably quoting the MacBook Pro/old iBook policy on hard disks; I'm pretty sure Apple would not void your warranty for a HD replacement as easily as it is done on the MacBook. (And as you say they couldn't even tell if they wanted to!)

[Multimedia]

Thanks, Multimedia! I can wait, but can my daughter? :) She starts college in midAugust and wants time to get used to her Mac.

For the rest of us, the 5400.3's superior shock resistance (350 g's vs. 250 for the 5400.2) is worth the price of admission--well, I guess we'll have to see what the price is.

How do the Fujis rate for shock resistance?Buy her an external 2.5" FW case for the 60. Then she can easily add the 160 and move the 60 outside. Then she installs a new copy of Tiger and when it starts up she'll be prompted to connect the FW drive and it will move all her changes from the 60 to the 160 in a flash.

Fujitsu is too thick. 12mm. This Seagate 160 Momentus SATA is going to be a hit tail wagging the MacBook dog once it's out in July. Something tells me Apple will be putting them inside MacBook Pros by Summer's end. But MacBook owners won't have to wait nor pay Apple's higher price. ;)

[filterban]

From Post #29 on the Replacing the MacBook RAM, Hard Drive (Video) and Benchmarks Thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2427573&postcount=29)OK now the end of this post is confusing me. Is the whole post a joke? Or if not could you see the key legends on the aluminum keys underneith the sticky black stuff? This is very serious if you aren't kidding. :confused: :eek:

He's kidding. The post has "Just kidding. After all, it's MacRmumors (:" in white at the bottom, and it shows up in your post.

[mkrishnan]

edit: the manual located here (http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/MacBook_13inch_Memory_DIY.pdf) mentions: "Before you can remove the hard drive, you must remove the battery and RAM door.

I'd write that off as a misprint, although I wouldn't write off the idea that HD changing doesn't void the warranty (especially if you hang on to the original and replace it...it would be very hard to detect).

The reasons I would say this is a misprint are that the HD isn't really mentioned anywhere else in that procedure, the procedure is explicitly about the RAM and not the HD, and if you were to replace "hard drive" with "memory module" in that statement, it would make much more sense in the context. :(

[Multimedia]

I called my local Apple store to see if they had the Macbook in. They did.
The salesperson tried to talk me into the black Macbook over the phone to which i replied that i was not interested b/c i will be upgrading the RAM and the HD. Here is the convo that follows:

Me: I plan on upgrading the HD and RAM ASAP.

Her: That will void your warranty.

Me: Well as the RAM and HD are user-serviceable parts, i dont see how that is possible.

Her: If you "crack the case open" you void the warranty.

Me: Well you dont have to do that. You simply just (insert RAM and HD replacement procedure)

Her: SilenceThat's the sound of her thinking: "I don't know what he is talking about but I can't tell him that."
So who is really right? I doubt Apple would be able to tell the difference if i had to send it in for service, especially if i sent it in with the original HD in it.

Can anyone enlighten me as to whom is correct? Thanks in advance.

edit: the manual located here (http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/MacBook_13inch_Memory_DIY.pdf) mentions: "Before you can remove the hard drive, you must remove the battery and RAM door.You are totally right. She is ignorant. Get the Seagate 160 in July and you will be the coolest MacBook owner on your block. :p

Remove the RAM door with a Phillips #1. The "door" is a L-shaped barrier bracket that covers the RAM and the HD slots.

[faintember]

The reasons I would say this is a misprint are that the HD isn't really mentioned anywhere else in that procedure, the procedure is explicitly about the RAM and not the HD, and if you were to replace "hard drive" with "memory module" in that statement, it would make much more sense in the context. :( A misprint it may be, however it is a official DIY manual straight from Apple. Maybe a loophole to use against them if needed. However i doubt if the HD swap (if the original was replaced before being sent for service) would be detectable as long as the user didnt use a prybar on the case or something of the like.

All i know is the HD in my TiPB is user serviceable, requiring the removal of the whole bottom case. If the Macbook HD is not user serviceable then it is just Apple being crazy.:)

Thanks for the help and advice all. I just wanted to make sure that my logic was correct!
Multimedia, mine will be getting a Hitachi 100gig 7200rpm drive. HD speed is more important to me than storage space, but thanks for the info.

[ImAlwaysRight]

You will not void your warranty by replacing the hard drive or memory. Now Apple will not warranty your replacement part, but the hard drive probably comes with a 3- or 5-year warranty from the manufacturer, and most memory has a lifetime warranty, so you are better off anyway with replacement parts. But if your FireWire port stops working in 3 months then Apple will fix it under warranty, regardless of whether or not you replaced the HD or RAM.

The only way Apple will not fix something under warranty is if you open your computer and damage something as a direct result of your actions. For example, you feel you just need DL burning on the road so one month from now you open your MacBook to replace the SuperDrive with a DL burning model, but then you mess up something in the process, Apple will NOT cover up your screw up under warranty.

I've been over this in past years, and this is a result of what I have found. Yes, you will get uninformed answers from Apple Store employees and even by calling Apple (with the low level techs) but if you press the issue Apple must honor their warranty for parts that fail as a result of their defects.

Oh NOOOOOOO they do not include the white apple stickers anymore.........ughhhhhhhhhh
Don't know where you heard/read/saw this, but the MacBooks do come with the Apple stickers. Perhaps yours is stuck to the back of your user's guide. :)

[ImAlwaysRight]

Remove the RAM door? What? What's a RAM Door? Are screwdrivers involved? Torx or Phillips?
There is an L-bracket that covers the hard drive/RAM openings from the battery. I imagine that could be referred to as a "RAM door." It requires the use of a Phillips screwdriver -- size 0 worked well for me.

Buy her an external 2.5" FW case for the 60. Then she can easily add the 160 and move the 60 outside.
I have not seen an external FW 2.5" enclosure for SATA drives. Have you? If so, please post a link, as I was the first to say the 160GB doesn't come in SATA flavor yet but someone replied "yes, they are out." :rolleyes:


This Seagate 160 Momentus SATA is going to be a hit tail wagging the MacBook dog once it's out in July. Something tells me Apple will be putting them inside MacBook Pros by Summer's end.
I doubt Apple will make it immediately available. They are not shipping 500GB HD's in desktops, are they? It took Apple some time to make 400GB a BTO option. It could take quite a few months before they make the 160GB available, and that's after they actually start to ship.

[faintember]

^^^That was the sound of Multimedia being sarcastic (or doing an impression of an Apple store employee).:p

[Mord]

someone needs to stickie this:

you can do anything you like to your mac as long as it does not do damage and even then it only voids the warranty of that part

I am an apple certified technician, sales people dont know jack about the warranty they just want to make the sale thus encourage you to upgrade it with apple and will use FUD to do it.

[PaulinMaryland]

Buy her an external 2.5" FW case for the 60. Then she can easily add the 160 and move the 60 outside. Then she installs a new copy of Tiger and when it starts up she'll be prompted to connect the FW drive and it will move all her changes from the 60 to the 160 in a flash.Great idea; thanks! I was wondering how to use it.

Fujitsu is too thick. 12mm. Too bad, since Fujitsu's 300g (shock rating), 2.5in. SATA will soon (by June) hit 200GB (http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/481264). Photo here (http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2006/03/28/fujitsu_200gb_notebook_drive/).

[PaulinMaryland]

someone needs to stickie this:

you can do anything you like to your mac as long as it does not do damage and even then it only voids the warranty of that partI thought the problem is that Apple might claim that our replacement part generated more heat, and so led another component to fail prematurely.

[Mord]

if they have a case sure, but it's your fault for using parts that are dodgy and damage the hardware as conferred by my original statement.

just read warrantees and use your common sense sticking a 9700 pro inside a g4 cube is likely to cause problems (i have one in mine but i'm special...)


the same logic applies to external peripherals, if the psu blows in your HD shunting 12V down the firewire line into the logic board blowing it apple is not liable, but useing the HD in the first place does not void the warranty.

[DesmoDog]

Oh NOOOOOOO they do not include the white apple stickers anymore.........ughhhhhhhhhh

Mine did... I'm guessing yours are in there somewhere. I think they may have been inserted in between the pages of the manual? They weren't obvious, but I did come across them at one point...

BTW: I'm surprised how many of my neighbors have wireless networks...

[gloss]

Mine did... I'm guessing yours are in there somewhere. I think they may have been inserted in between the pages of the manual? They weren't obvious, but I did come across them at one point...

BTW: I'm surprised how many of my neighbors have wireless networks...

Amusing anecdote. At my friend's townhouse last night, I asked him if he had wireless. This was the exchange:

"Sure."
"Which one is it?"
"Linksys, I think. Not the one with the other name."
"No, there's like seven networks here."
"No there's not."
"Yes there are."
"My computer only sees two."

Hurray for the power of AirPort. o.O

[Gatezone]

I figured the only way to break through my own and everyone else's (those who don't have one) speculation was to go check them out.

First I went to CompUSA (no one in the Apple department) where they had one black MB and the screen was not functioning correctly. I rebooted it, a sales person tried to get it to work and it would not come on with the screen so you could see it. You could see a very faint image and the power was plugged in and power light on.

Next stop was Fry's where they had no MB out on display for demo but they had several in stock and a sales person brought out a white one to show another customer and myself. I immediately changed my mind about getting a white one. I had psyched myself up to get a white one, but as soon as I saw the keyboard I remembered all the white ibooks I've worked on for clients where the white surface had become dirty, discolored, including one owned by a fairly "Monk-ish" neat-nick.

After establishing a verifiable no-questions asked 15 day return policy (I buy a lot from Fry's and they have never refused a return of anything) I decided to take home a black MB and spend a few nights with her. I haven't told her that she may be boxed up and returned to her 'agents.' (please use politically correct global gender replacement of your choice, many are availabe)

People who've read my other posts here will groan, but the first thing I noticed was how heavy the little sucker was ;-). Then how beautiful. So I can live with a beautiful overweight beauty for a couple of weeks at least.

Because much of this has been covered I'll just bullet my perceptions after about 12 hours of use. Keep in mind that I am a skeptic by nature, and a believer by choice:


Glossy screen works far better than I imagined or than I have seen implemented on other systems

Black surface: I tried to scratch off the paint at CompUSA - figuring that the system was having problems anyway. It resisted my tough fingernails. I haven't dug into my "precious" too hard but gave it a few loving scratches and so far so good. She purred .

Looks: It is absolutely sepectacular looking

Heat: The left side gets hot as hell and I always use a pedestal pad on all laptops and am used to a fair amount of heat being generated. This was painful, and almost too hot to touch. I would not want it on my lap. At first I Thought it was just during charging, but later it heated up again off the charger.

Boot Camp: I was sitting there using it and I suddenly remember Boot Camp. Having an XP Pro service pack 2 Installation CD and license laying around I installed it.

Boot Camp continued: to put it in technical terms... fracking amazing! I work on Macs and PC and software for my work so maybe I didn't notice if something about this was difficult, but from what i can see this is a piece of cake. The automated CD burn of Mac Hardware drivers almost makes up for Apple feeding this beauty too many bon bon's and making her so heafty.

Boot Camp continues: I was careful to unpack everything so carefully for the return... but I sat there and realized that for $1,500 I had both a screamer Windows and Mac OS system. ******* I can almost overlook the weight issue. Not completely though.

Boot Camp more until I had loaded both systems, connected to wireless, plus could RDP to the Windows 2003 servers, plus the Mac servers I don't think I realized how great it was to have both the RDP as well as the full hardware dual boot available. This feature almost cuts the cost of the system to half for those people who really need to use both beyond RDP. I had a very strong "aha!" moment when I realized I had two mints, I mean two systems in one. It is obvious, but there is a 'felt sense' realization when it is there in front of you.

Keyboarding - I was very, very leery of the keyboard, but have warmed up to it and it seems great.

Trackpad and clicker - Hateful and sucks, but this is not new. Make it tappable as an option (someone tell me it's in a preference setting somewhere, please). The two finger click substitute for a second button is so idiotically contorted that it has to be a way to avoid another dollar on the price. Yes, it's doable and it will become easier the more you do it, but it just is 'wrong' in so many ways. Two finger scroll (my first) is ok, but I'm not sure from a usability perspective I think they will find a better way. In my opinion there has always been something just a little off with the Mac laptop pad and clicker. The way it is positioned almost always forced me to use my thumb in a way that is uncomfortable. I used to never use the 'tap' for click option on a laptop but once I got used to it I love it and is almost always easier than 'reaching' for the click bar with my thumb. Don't even say anything about using two hands on the pad/clicker.

Bowflexing... someone described the MB as 'flexing under it's own weight' and as I carried it around and did some one-handed 'curls' with it I felt exactly what they meant. It is an amazingly 'dense' piece of equipment. While many have said 5.x pounds is not a big deal this puppy is one that can easily slide out of the hands due to it's density. Not a dis, just reality of physics. Same thing is true of the MBP, PB's and previous books. I almost think they should come with sticky 'skins.' I did not discuss this with her and may not bring it up as it will sound way too kinked.

Graphics: For this level of system this is not a big issue for me. Covers my needs adequately. Would I like an option for more, what do you think?

Value: As has been said here many times this is a very nice, very cost-effective, package! If it doesn't melt in the next ten days and I don't drop it as I fling it around, and the paint doesn't flake off I'll probably keep it. I've already recommended the entry level and mid-level one to several Windoze clients because they can have a great Windows system and get used to the benefits of a Mac.

Marketing note to Infinite Loop: try an add with two side by side black MB's with Windows on one screen and Mac OS on the other. Have the camera do 360 degree pans around them with the screens shifting from email, to gaming, to spreadsheets, to iTunes, to splash screens of other corporate and creative software... Show people that these system and the software on them can do anything you want them to do. So it needs work, fine, get one of those multi-million dollar agencies to refine it. Stop with the old guy young guy, cool vs. nerdy, people jumping around listing to iPods. Even iPods can do more interesting things than power an aerobic fit. Apple could sell as many computers as it sells iPods. This is coming from a skeptic that thinks they still need improvements.

Marketing note #2 to Infinite Loop: consider purchasing an OEM license to Windows XP PRO/Vista and making it a pre-installed option. It would be cheaper and easier for your cross-over market expanding newbie buyers. As good a job as you have done with the Boot Camp implementation there are a gazillion people who don't want to even touch a system software disk or hear the word "partition" let alone be faced with the Windows system screen asking them which partition of three or more they would like to install Windows on. Your docs are good, and I know you don't want to support Windows but if you can sell a few million more hardware units it will be cheaper for the rest of us, or at least you'll make more money. The easier you make it for Windows to run on the Mac the fewer people will want to run Mac OS on generic and branded intel/AMD hardware, and my sense is that is more important than having Windows already pre-loaded on Macs.

All in all, the MB is bodaciously plump (hey I'm a few pounds over myself), has an impressively fine display, gets hotter than hell, and is VERY, very, versatile with Boot Camp.


One more time, make the weight more and more proportional to the size. If that doesn't get the weight down, try something else. ;)

[Snide]

Having read all of the posts in this thread :eek: , I'm ready to make my 1st post.
So please forgive if it's a bit wordy. I have a question or three:

How does the WiFi reception compare to the iBook? Has anyone managed side by side tests?

How long until the macbook gets the Merom chip (most likely scenario)?

I was ready to order a G4 iBook back in November, but then the first 13"
iBook rumors came out. I held onto my cash as bogus rumor after bogus
rumor came about. Having a 2 Ghz rev B iMac G5 with 2 GB RAM at home,
performance wasn't too big a deal. The thing I care about most in a portable
is WiFi reception and battery life. So this Macbook with its specs seems
almost too good to be true. So I am thankful for all those BS rumors!!

In the meantime I scored a 400 Mhz Pismo, 512 MB RAM, wireless card (!),
2 1/2 hour battery for $250. I added a 6100 Ah battery and a 80 GB 7500 RPM
Travelstar HD. Gotta love the 7 hour battery life with full screen brightness
(which admittedly isn't very bright). This machine does 90% of what I need
a portable for, including optimizing images for web via PS CS2, and web
stuff using Dreamweaver 8, (slow but usable) and all the other usual stuff .
The WiFi reception is very, very good; easily blows the doors off Ti Books
and Al Books (but limited to 802.11b compatible networks and 11Mbps tranfer).
Tiger runs great. Where this machine is really lacking is poor H264 playpack, or
high frame-rate or bit-rate video using other codecs. I will definitely be keeping
this Pismo as I have fallen in love with it. Even before the Macbooks
came out, I was getting all sorts of questions and comments about it.
Now it's gonna be really fun when everyone thinks it's the new Macbook. :cool:

Quick question: why in tarnation is the Apple upside down on The Pismo??

So for now I figure I might as well wait until the Merom chips are used,
or at least the base-model gets bumped to 2 Ghz or higher. Hell, I might
even wait until Leapord comes standard. When's Leapord due agan?

One last thing...
Hector, let's say I wanted to replace the HD in a G4 iBook. Having seen the
procedure outlined online on PBfixit, there are 23 pages of instructions, with
3 pictures/steps per page. So Apple is cool with me doing this as long as I don't screw up?
This certainly goes against all that I have read or heard from several sources.
It has been strongly implied or succinctly stated that if you even crack the
case on a Rev c or higher iMac, an iBook, an eMac, ect, that the warranty is void.
I wasn't sure how they would be able to tell, but still wondered...

[filterban]

I figured the only way to break through my own and everyone else's (those who do't have one) speculation was to go check them out.

Black surface: I tried to scratch off the paint at CompUSA - figuring that the system was having problems anyway. It resisted my tough fingernails. I haven't dug into my "precious" too hard but gave it a few loving scratches and so far so good. She purred .

Looks: It is absolutely sepectacular looking



Wow, just wow.

So, you went on this board and complained loudly and voraciously that Apple was ripping off its consumers by charging an extra $150 for the black model.

Then, what did you do?

You bought the black model for perfectly valid reasons:

1) It looks better to you.
2) You don't want it to get dirty.
3) You want it to look different from a G4 iBook.
4) etc.

Every consumer who bought a black MacBook went through a similar decision process, and they decided the extra $150 was worth it. Are they being ripped off?

No.

[Mord]

One last thing...
Hector, let's say I wanted to replace the HD in a G4 iBook. Having seen the
procedure outlined online on PBfixit, there are 23 pages of instructions, with
3 pictures/steps per page. So Apple is cool with me doing this as long as I don't screw up?
This certainly goes against all that I have read or heard from several sources.
It has been strongly implied or succinctly stated that if you even crack the
case on a Rev c or higher iMac, an iBook, an eMac, ect, that the warranty is void.
I wasn't sure how they would be able to tell, but still wondered...

as long as you don't screw it up the warranty is intact, even if it was against apples warranty policies it's not like apple centers send apple records ow what HD they have installed in what mac, for all apple knows your HD has been installed by an apple certified tech as long as you do the job properly.

[sedi]

I just ordered my black macbook, my very first Mac. Hereby I'm officially a switcher.

[matticus008]

Trackpad and clicker - Hateful and sucks, but this is not new. Make it tappable as an option (someone tell me it's in a preference setting somewhere, please).
System Preferences>Keyboard and Mouse.

The two finger click substitute for a second button is so idiotically contorted that it has to be a way to avoid another dollar on the price. Yes, it's doable and it will become easier the more you do it, but it just is 'wrong' in so many ways.
It's actually an aesthetic and ergonomic choice. Apple has gone to great pains to allow multi-button use without betraying its one-button tradition. If you tap for left click, a two-fingered tap for right click is perfectly natural.


Two finger scroll (my first) is ok, but I'm not sure from a usability perspective I think they will find a better way.
You clearly haven't given it enough time yet :). Two-fingered scrolling IS the better way.

Bowflexing... someone described the MB as 'flexing under it's own weight' and as I carried it around and did some one-handed 'curls' with it I felt exactly what they meant. It is an amazingly 'dense' piece of equipment.
Magnesium frame. iBooks were far more durable than PowerBooks. I've seen them dropped, kicked, and even sat upon once (lid open) and they all lived on to serve another day. I'd rather have that than a cheap scrap frame or solid plastic Dell construction than save the pound it adds. That's just my preference, though, since the MacBook is not a "thin and light" despite being both thin and light.


Marketing note #2 to Infinite Loop: consider purchasing an OEM license to Windows XP PRO/Vista and making it a pre-installed option. It would be cheaper and easier for your cross-over market expanding newbie buyers.
Never. Apple can't undercut their own business directly. Investors, shareholders, and customers would never allow it. They have to walk a fine line of allowing, but not encouraging. There's no way Apple could pull off selling Windows licenses and not tank completely.

Piracy of OS X isn't ever going to be a serious threat that Apple can discourage by expanding beyond Boot Camp. The people that want OS X on their boxes want to do it for the challenge or the thrill, or because they don't want to spend a single penny. These are people who aren't going to pay for it no matter what Apple does. When Leopard comes out for Intel and PPC, do you think the x86 hackers are going to buy the retail copy and then modify it for their generic PC? Probably not; they'll just keep downloading it.

[Snide]

as long as you don't screw it up the warranty is intact, even if it was against apples warranty policies it's not like apple centers send apple records ow what HD they have installed in what mac, for all apple knows your HD has been installed by an apple certified tech as long as you do the job properly.


Thanks for that info. I wanted a G4 iBook to at least tide me over while waiting
for the Macbook, but didn't want to be hobbled by the anemic 4200 RPM HD.
It would have had to go at once! I am extremely thrilled to see how easily one
can upgrade the HD in the Macbook. Hooray!

[Gatezone]

Wow, just wow.

So, you went on this board and complained loudly and voraciously that Apple was ripping off its consumers by charging an extra $150 for the black model.

Then, what did you do?

You bought the black model for perfectly valid reasons:

1) It looks better to you.
2) You don't want it to get dirty.
3) You want it to look different from a G4 iBook.
4) etc.

Every consumer who bought a black MacBook went through a similar decision process, and they decided the extra $150 was worth it. Are they being ripped off?

No.


Exploitation is not a one way street. I have made it clear that it is individual choice to participate in their own finanical exploitation. I don't think it should cost $150 to have the color you prefer, no. Did I spend it, yes. Might I return it, you bet. My own cognitive dissonance is such that I do all sorts of things that are not rational :eek:

I honestly thought that we established a better understanding of financial exploitation way back in the 1500's? Posts, not the year :p. Fair market and capitalism gives us the liberty to both exploit and to accept our own exploitation.

My impressionistic experiential 'review' is just what it is. I'm not ashamed to fall in love even for a few days... even after I've resisted the allure. I'm also not opposed to returning things or reselling them. It's both a life of feeling and of analysis.

[Gatezone]

System Preferences>Keyboard and Mouse.

It's actually an aesthetic and ergonomic choice. Apple has gone to great pains to allow multi-button use without betraying its one-button tradition. If you tap for left click, a two-fingered tap for right click is perfectly natural.


You clearly haven't given it enough time yet :). Two-fingered scrolling IS the better way.

Oh Matticus you party line dude... I need more evidence than you saying that it is so. The verdict is out, but I'm open to two-finger scrolling and one finger saluting. But that two finger tapping and clicking sucks more than giving up the ghost and providing another button, geeze already. And straight tapping to select would be a godsend.


Magnesium frame. iBooks were far more durable than PowerBooks. I've seen them dropped, kicked, and even sat upon once (lid open) and they all lived on to serve another day. I'd rather have that than a cheap scrap frame or solid plastic Dell construction than save the pound it adds. That's just my preference, though, since the MacBook is not a "thin and light" despite being both thin and light.

Not lightweight. Nope, sorry, that one you need to come to grips with. But I'm happy to hear about the tensile strenth. The case feels good to me, but it doesn't seem to be where the weight is coming from. When the system got really hot I saw some lead melting out of the speaker baffles. (just kidding folks)


Never. Apple can't undercut their own business directly. Investors, shareholders, and customers would never allow it. They have to walk a fine line of allowing, but not encouraging. There's no way Apple could pull off selling Windows licenses and not tank completely.

This is no surprise coming from a party line guy, and it not making sense to me won't surprise you ;). They sell more hardware, they introduce their software because it will be the initial default. Where's the down side? People keep buying Mac's and running windows on it? Gee that would be terrible. A little dumb maybe but I don't see them losing money on the deal if they are not losing money selling their systems without it? It isn't as if I'm suggesting they sell Mac hardware **without** Mac OS.

Piracy of OS X isn't ever going to be a serious threat that Apple can discourage by expanding beyond Boot Camp.

I'm not sure I'm following the threat of a double-negative above... Can you help me parse out that one again? If relevant.

The people that want OS X on their boxes want to do it for the challenge or the thrill, or because they don't want to spend a single penny. These are people who aren't going to pay for it no matter what Apple does. When Leopard comes out for Intel and PPC, do you think the x86 hackers are going to buy the retail copy and then modify it for their generic PC? Probably not; they'll just keep downloading it.

Well this might explain what you were saying. I probably agree, although if Mac OS ran as easily on Intel non-Apple boxes as Windows runs on Mac hardware and Dell OEM'ed it (as Michael Dell has suggested) I don't think it would really matter what the hackers did. But I agree that Apple will not let their software easily run on, nor support it running on the heathen non-Apple hardware.

I'm just suggesting that there is very little to lose and a lot to gain by pre-installing or providing it as a BTO option on new Macs. Don't try to tell me that the extra OS will make it even heavier :p . Or that they'll have to have separate production runs to accomodate this build to order disk image... :rolleyes:

[Gatezone]

Not that it will matter to most but a friend just wrote to me with this 'rumor' after reading about my excitement about dual booting and haveing a nice Windows laptop as a bonus to the MB:

I just read (here (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/capable.mspx)) that Vista Premier might not work on BlackBook because it doesn't have 128MB of VRAM. And since the GPU shares ram-space with the CPU, it might have some additional video playback issues.

Just something to help keep us forward looking consumers educated...

And before you say it, I know Vista will probably not be out till forever and by then the lightweight non-integrated MB will be sitting on our desks, or in our back pockets.

[matticus008]

And straight tapping to select would be a godsend.
Tapping left clicks. What more do you want?

Not lightweight. Nope, sorry, that one you need to come to grips with. But I'm happy to hear about the tensile strenth. The case feels good to me, but it doesn't seem to be where the weight is coming from.
The battery is no cloud, to be sure. 5.2 pounds, though, is definitely below the median for a notebook computer.


This is no surprise coming from a party line guy, and it not making sense to me won't surprise you ;). They sell more hardware, they introduce their software because it will be the initial default. Where's the down side? People keep buying Mac's and running windows on it? Gee that would be terrible.
I'm not a party line guy. It's rather irksome that people make that conclusion just because this is an Apple forum...I've made hundreds of posts (literally) pointing out problems with Apple, just as I have supporting them.

The problem is that they can't become a Windows OEM. Yes, they would sell more units, but that's not the issue. They need to sell OS X in order to maintain distinction as a company, not just sneak it in under the radar. If market share shrinks of OS X, it poses a substantial financial threat to Apple. Without going into the long and boring details, it comes to this: market share of Apple is measured by OS X, not by the number of Macs...they can't improve their market share by selling Windows-running Macs.

A little dumb maybe but I don't see them losing money on the deal if they are not losing money selling their systems without it? It isn't as if I'm suggesting they sell Mac hardware **without** Mac OS.
It's not that direct. If people don't run OS X, Apple doesn't gain anything. As a boutique PC manufacturer only differing in design from other PC vendors, they're doomed as a company. Just look at the market. Not one PC manufacturer is profitable, aside from Dell, and they've recently admitted that they're missing their growth targets. Apple's the only one not breaking even or in the red, and it's because of OS X.

I'm not sure I'm following the threat of a double-negative above... Can you help me parse out that one again? If relevant.
Well, it's not a double negative, so maybe just read it until it make sense.


Well this might explain what you were saying. I probably agree, although if Mac OS ran as easily on Intel non-Apple boxes as Windows runs on Mac hardware and Dell OEM'ed it (as Michael Dell has suggested) I don't think it would really matter what the hackers did.
It wouldn't. But that's outside reality, as you admit.


I'm just suggesting that there is very little to lose and a lot to gain by pre-installing or providing it as a BTO option on new Macs.
An erroneous and dangerous assertion, and I'm not saying that because Apple is involved. It's happened with other companies in similar situations, and it's never worked for them, and they weren't tackling a 90% market share giant with their strategy.

[Cybergypsy]

[QUOTE=DesmoDog]Mine did... I'm guessing yours are in there somewhere. I think they may have been inserted in between the pages of the manual? They weren't obvious, but I did come across them at one point...

BTW: I'm surprised how many of my neighbors have wireless networks...[/

QUOTE]
Mine was free...

[davidmt]

I just came back from the Apple store, wanting to see the new MacBooks in person before I placed an order from Amazon. This has probably been posted, but Amazon.com has a $100+ rebate on Apple computers (desktops and laptops), so I was planning on taking advantage of that.

I mentioned the rebate to the Apple store clerk, and that if it wasn't for the $100 savings, I'd be buying one from them. He talked to his manager, came back and told me he would price match the $100. No waiting for a rebate, and I could walk out today with a new MacBook! They also have a free printer offer with a purchase of a computer, so I got a HP printer/scanner/copier thrown in (that IS a rebate, though).

I'm very pleased with the customer support I've received at the Apple stores. Not only this time, but on several other occasions.

Just thought some of you might be interested ;)

Link to Amazon MacBook (black):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/rebates/B000EPLRFI/ref=dp_rebates_1/103-4339077-2159866?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&s=pc

[ImNoSuperMan]

Every consumer who bought a black MacBook went through a similar decision process, and they decided the extra $150 was worth it. Are they being ripped off?

No.

I wont second it at all. Coz definitely a black paint job cant cost 150$ at all. And from the way I see things, this will very soon be changed. Apple definitely cant charge 150$ extra for black color forever. IMO by the year end it`ll be reduced to a much sensible 50$. or even less. So you are paying atleast 100$ extra just to make your MB look a little better? Only a fool wud pay 150$ for a black color.





Now before you start. Lemme clear that I was(and still am a lil bit) one of those FOOLS who really wanted a Black MB at any cost, even had the money but had to be satisfied with White in the end as I was left with no other option:( .

But now with a White one in my lap, I m more than satisfied with the white color. There`s no way anyone can mistake it for a G4 iBook. It`s way too better than G4.

So all those of you who want to buy a Black MB for 150$ premium; I dont think nothing wrong with your idea. Black definitely is cool IMO. But white too is pretty good.

[matticus008]

I wont second it at all. Coz definitely a black paint job cant cost 150$ at all. And from the way I see things, this will very soon be changed.
No, but what's the price difference between a 60GB and an 80GB drive? $10? Certainly nowhere near the 50 they charge.

The fact is that by offering a black one, they're dividing their numbers. If they were ordering 1 million white cases before, they got a certain price. Now, 1 million MacBooks will be both black and white--so the white order might only be 600,000, and they don't get as good of a price on the smaller order. The black might be more expensive (different pigment and different finish on the case, different keyboard, different battery...all of which are a few dollars more expensive each), and with the lower discount offset to the black customers, it could easily run up to $50-60 per unit for the black. Apple doesn't want to raise the price for everyone to offer the option, so the black buyers will offset the higher cost of their computers AND the higher cost of the white computers (such that the white computers are actually selling for a slightly lower margin than they otherwise would--still not "at a loss," but at a comparative loss).

Nearly tripling the price of a BTO upgrade is a time-honored tradition for computer manufacturers, so suddenly $150 doesn't seem so bad. Don't get me wrong; I think they could easily get away with charging closer to actual cost, since this and RAM are the most lucrative notebook upgrades. But it's not criminal that their markup is percentage-based. Every other BTO is percentage-based.

[bloodycape]

No, they won't fit in the MacBook. If they did, they'd already be in the MacBook. The second part of your comment doesn't seem to be about the DVD drive, but if you're saying the MacBook graphics are upgradeable, they absolutely are not.

Well from the looks of things it seems like you can swap out the gfx chip for another similar chip like the next version of the 950 chips that are suppose to come out. I only say this because I think I remeber reading on an amd/intel forum about how some people upgraded their older 915 chipset to the 940, 945 and even the 950.

[matticus008]

Well from the looks of things it seems like you can swap out the gfx chip for another similar chip like the next version of the 950 chips that are suppose to come out.
No, you cannot. There is no "graphics chip" on the motherboard to swap out. It's built directly into the Intel chipset.

[filterban]

I just ordered my black macbook, my very first Mac. Hereby I'm officially a switcher.

Congratulations, and welcome. You won't be going back, trust me.

[filterban]

Exploitation is not a one way street. I have made it clear that it is individual choice to participate in their own finanical exploitation. I don't think it should cost $150 to have the color you prefer, no. Did I spend it, yes. Might I return it, you bet. My own cognitive dissonance is such that I do all sorts of things that are not rational :eek:

I honestly thought that we established a better understanding of financial exploitation way back in the 1500's? Posts, not the year :p. Fair market and capitalism gives us the liberty to both exploit and to accept our own exploitation.

My impressionistic experiential 'review' is just what it is. I'm not ashamed to fall in love even for a few days... even after I've resisted the allure. I'm also not opposed to returning things or reselling them. It's both a life of feeling and of analysis.

Well, that certainly explains it. (And I think people in the 1500s actually did know what it felt like to be exploited, with all that slavery and indentured servitude/serfdom.)

Your review was also well done. My (white) MacBook will arrive on Tuesday.

For the record, I find it interesting that you and I argued for some time about this issue, with you basically saying $150 was a ripoff just for a new color and me saying that it was fair.

Yet, when purchasing our MacBooks, I bought the white one (I just didn't think it was worth $150 to make it look like a Gateway or Dell) and you bought the black one (for also valid reasons.)

Makes you wonder what the point of these forums is at all, doesn't it? :)

[extramural]

Trackpad and clicker - Hateful and sucks, but this is not new. Make it tappable as an option (someone tell me it's in a preference setting somewhere, please). The two finger click substitute for a second button is so idiotically contorted that it has to be a way to avoid another dollar on the price. Yes, it's doable and it will become easier the more you do it, but it just is 'wrong' in so many ways. Two finger scroll (my first) is ok, but I'm not sure from a usability perspective I think they will find a better way. In my opinion there has always been something just a little off with the Mac laptop pad and clicker. The way it is positioned almost always forced me to use my thumb in a way that is uncomfortable. I used to never use the 'tap' for click option on a laptop but once I got used to it I love it and is almost always easier than 'reaching' for the click bar with my thumb. Don't even say anything about using two hands on the pad/clicker.


Perhaps SideTrack would alleviate some of these issues. A new version that supports the MacBook has just been released. See http://www.ragingmenace.com/software/sidetrack/ for details

[MSchen01]

Does anyone happen to know how much hard drive space windows xp takes up?

I am getting my beautiful white macbook on wednesday after MONTHS of waiting...the day they came out I went to the local apple store three times to play with them.

[Frozone]

My MacBook is supposed to be here on my 18th Birthday, May 22nd. Even though I know when it's supposed to arrive I can't help but refresh the "tracking" page every 10 minutes. This weekend is going to drive me cRaZy.

[Hyuga]

Okay.. I tried to look elsewhere and bit back and didnt see anything about this but it seems MacBook has serious heat problems like MBP. I find this really sad and MacBook service manual makes me cry... seriously...

i give ye links: (clicky me) (http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=295925) and then read the bottom part where is the heat issue from here: (clicky me) (http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2946&review=Apple+MacBook) Sorry.. but.. what is wrong with apple with that thermal paste? and seriously... to cool off at wall ac, is bit EXTREME, I did that last time when I was taking motherboard off from HP laptop and testing overclocking at extreme :cool:

http://attach.mobile01.com/attach/200605/mobile01-514da8fc7fc5ce50359d0bd754a7c73c.jpg

[Multimedia]

I just came back from the Apple store, wanting to see the new MacBooks in person before I placed an order from Amazon. This has probably been posted, but Amazon.com has a $100+ rebate on Apple computers (desktops and laptops), so I was planning on taking advantage of that.

I mentioned the rebate to the Apple store clerk, and that if it wasn't for the $100 savings, I'd be buying one from them. He talked to his manager, came back and told me he would price match the $100. No waiting for a rebate, and I could walk out today with a new MacBook! They also have a free printer offer with a purchase of a computer, so I got a HP printer/scanner/copier thrown in (that IS a rebate, though).

I'm very pleased with the customer support I've received at the Apple stores. Not only this time, but on several other occasions.

Just thought some of you might be interested ;)

Link to Amazon MacBook (black):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/rebates/B000EPLRFI/ref=dp_rebates_1/103-4339077-2159866?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&s=pcWhat Apple Store? Any reason you didn't want to say which store? Service quality varies radically from store to store. Who had a free printer offer? Amazon or Apple?

[Bolgard]

My MacBook is supposed to be here on my 18th Birthday, May 22nd. Even though I know when it's supposed to arrive I can't help but refresh the "tracking" page every 10 minutes. This weekend is going to drive me cRaZy.

Tell me about it - mine finally shipped from China this afternoon, and I can't help but check the fed ex page every so often, even though I know the damn thing is on a massive cargo plane across the pacific ocean, and more than likely will be for the next several hours.

But hey, can't complain, it's on its way :)

[ImNoSuperMan]

My MacBook is supposed to be here on my 18th Birthday, May 22nd. Even though I know when it's supposed to arrive I can't help but refresh the "tracking" page every 10 minutes. This weekend is going to drive me cRaZy.
Wow best B`day gift you could ever get.(xcept for a really really HOT date)

[Frozone]

Tell me about it - mine finally shipped from China this afternoon, and I can't help but check the fed ex page every so often, even though I know the damn thing is on a massive cargo plane across the pacific ocean, and more than likely will be for the next several hours.

But hey, can't complain, it's on its way :)

Well, mine's coming from Mephis, Tennessee and last time I checked was in Atlanta, Georgia. It's got to make it to south Georgia! This weekend is packed though, so I'm thinking it's going to go fast. Graduation in the morning and spend the rest of the day having fun with friends. Party on Sunday for my two cousin's birthdays and bowling that night. Then to bed EARLY!

Wow best B`day gift you could ever get.(xcept for a really really HOT date)

The hot date can wait a day. Just gimme my MacBook!

[davidmt]

What Apple Store? Any reason you didn't want to say which store? Service quality varies radically from store to store. Who had a free printer offer? Amazon or Apple?

It was the Salem New Hampshire store. And the free printer offer is at the Apple Store, not Amazon. Sorry for not being specific.

[netdog]

someone needs to stickie this:

you can do anything you like to your mac as long as it does not do damage and even then it only voids the warranty of that part

I am an apple certified technician, sales people dont know jack about the warranty they just want to make the sale thus encourage you to upgrade it with apple and will use FUD to do it.

So we can change the drive without breaking our warranty and AppleCare agreement? Tech support told me no.

[nem3015]

What Apple Store? Any reason you didn't want to say which store? Service quality varies radically from store to store. Who had a free printer offer? Amazon or Apple?

Just checked online and MacMall and ClubMac already have the $100 rebate and Free printer offer... so after rebate we are down to $1515 (the strange number is because on those places they already have an extra $5 drop from the retail price) for the MacBook 2.0 with 2Gb and 120 disk... of course plus taxes and various shipping costs.

This is getting better by the minute...

[netdog]

Does anyone happen to know how much hard drive space windows xp takes up?

I am getting my beautiful white macbook on wednesday after MONTHS of waiting...the day they came out I went to the local apple store three times to play with them.

Surprisingly little. If I remember correctly something under 600 MBs.

[Gatezone]

Tapping left clicks. What more do you want?

What everyone wants: everything ;), but I'd settle for tap select :o


I'm not a party line guy. It's rather irksome that people make that conclusion just because this is an Apple forum...I've made hundreds of posts (literally) pointing out problems with Apple, just as I have supporting them.

Noted.


The problem is that they can't become a Windows OEM. Yes, they would sell more units, but that's not the issue. They need to sell OS X in order to maintain distinction as a company, not just sneak it in under the radar. If market share shrinks of OS X, it poses a substantial financial threat to Apple. Without going into the long and boring details, it comes to this: market share of Apple is measured by OS X, not by the number of Macs...they can't improve their market share by selling Windows-running Macs.

There seem to be some sprockets missing in this 'logic' and that which followed it. It can't pose a substantial financial threat if for every Mac that is sold OS X is also sold at the same profit ratio that Apple is currently happily pocketing (more power to them). Of course, OS market share can be seen in terms of units shipped/sold and usage which are not always the same although except in this hybrid situation they genearlly are the same. Linux and the new Intel Macs are sort of clouding this issue. I don't think you can put it back in the bottle, although we've seen Apple yank the rug in the past.


It's not that direct. If people don't run OS X, Apple doesn't gain anything. As a boutique PC manufacturer only differing in design from other PC vendors, they're doomed as a company. Just look at the market. Not one PC manufacturer is profitable, aside from Dell, and they've recently admitted that they're missing their growth targets. Apple's the only one not breaking even or in the red, and it's because of OS X.

Again sprockets are snapping off and there is whirring of belts slipping. Yes of course they could be mine :eek: , but maybe not.

What we are seeing with Boot Camp and the revolutionary realization that you can have the best OS and the most popular on the same system is not really what we've seen in the past. I've lived through many attempts at dual boot systems and NONE of them have had the potential for fulfilling users, managers, and purchasing office requirements like what Apple has sitting in front of them right now. Your points may make sense in a Gartner study but I don't think they've really come up with a way to accurately analyze this one yet.

This isn't a difficult math problem. Apple doesn't discount their systems, neither do their supply chains, not really. Selling Windows already on them doesn't take a fracking dime out of their pockets and since their market share is so small anyway common sense, based on watching the trends, would say that there is a far greater potential for people to move to OS X than for fewer people to use Windows over OS X. Value added, dollars added, OS X stats are higher. Walk me through the down side big threat to Apple and its share-holders. They are still in a niche of premium hardware and the cache of their hip/cool image brand.

If you are saying that if their market share grows too much they are in danger of becoming less cool you may have a point, but if they don't blink and hold to their pricing strategies (with marginal drops that reflect the same margins... or higher) it is doubtful they are going to go down in revenue or profits.


An erroneous and dangerous assertion, and I'm not saying that because Apple is involved. It's happened with other companies in similar situations, and it's never worked for them, and they weren't tackling a 90% market share giant with their strategy.

Can you provide some examples of this situation with 'other' companies?

Apple has the 'survivor' mentality and so do a lot of its fans. They are also the dominant market leader in other areas like the iPod. Does it really cut into their music player business that I can play music from other sources on my iPod? No. I wouldn't buy one without being able to play music and audio from other sources.

[Jschultz]

Does anyone know when the macbook will cheapen up? even my so called 'student discount' is only 50 bucks lower than the full cost. I know Amazon has a $100 rebate that puts it at $999...but how long till its $949?

[Cybergypsy]

Tell me about it - mine finally shipped from China this afternoon, and I can't help but check the fed ex page every so often, even though I know the damn thing is on a massive cargo plane across the pacific ocean, and more than likely will be for the next several hours.

But hey, can't complain, it's on its way :)

took mine 2.5 days from china got it today!

[Frozone]

Look at me! I'm exploited!

Look at me! I'm exploited!

:confused:

:confused:

I am exploited because I traded in my white MB for a black one. Some posters here would insist that Apple has ripped me off.

Truth be told, I loved the white one, but I looked at my white Bose remote and pictured how stained and discolored my white MB keyboard/mousepad would be in two years and headed back down to Regent Street.

So I guess I have been ripped off!!!!! :eek:

...

Your review was also well done. My (white) MacBook will arrive on Tuesday.

For the record, I find it interesting that you and I argued for some time about this issue, with you basically saying $150 was a ripoff just for a new color and me saying that it was fair.

Yet, when purchasing our MacBooks, I bought the white one (I just didn't think it was worth $150 to make it look like a Gateway or Dell) and you bought the black one (for also valid reasons.)

Makes you wonder what the point of these forums is at all, doesn't it? :)

Thanks.

It is hilarious and oddly satisfying that we went in different directions. Only now I'm envious (only sort of kidding) I had a white one on reserve, I really did. I loved the price as it covered part of the upgrades I will do if I keep the thing. I've just never seen a white ibook that fully retained it's pristine pure coloring. It could be that the black will flake all to hell and look worse. Let's compare notes later on.

If I could I would 'sharpie' the big freaking logo on the lid. If it were white it would just be that much more obvious. That ought to piss some people off :mad: but I am in and out of a variety of client sites every day and I like to be 'invisible.' The logos are as much for product placementss in TV shows and movies than regular designer labeling. I'd sort of like my iPod to look like one of those creative pieces of crap too :eek: I can't even tell if I'm serious or not.

Different perspectives and questioning the obvious makes dialogue interesting. Besides sheer entertainment, I felt as well informed as possible within 48 hours of a new product release. In the old days we knew zippity zero when we walked into a store right after the release. Now we not only know what we want to know we might even have had our assumptions and fill-in the blank projections questioned to the point of waking up to something that we would have missed entirely on our own. I know it was a somewhat rhetorical question but it's a good one to ponder.

Perhaps SideTrack would alleviate some of these issues. A new version that supports the MacBook has just been released. See http://www.ragingmenace.com/software/sidetrack/ for details

Thanks I'll check it out.

[Bolgard]

took mine 2.5 days from china got it today!

Ooh, good to know. Here's a silly question - I'm not too up on shipping details... does Saturday count as a "business day"?

[Gatezone]

I am exploited because I traded in my white MB for a black one. Some posters here would insist that Apple has ripped me off.

Truth be told, I loved the white one, but I looked at my white Bose remote and pictured how stained and discolored my white MB keyboard/mousepad would be in two years and headed back down to Regent Street.

So I guess I have been ripped off!!!!! :eek:

Go man go... Doesn't it feel good? I speak from experience. You have to be fully conscious of the exploitation to really savor it.

Where's that sound track about 'pleasure spiked with pain...."

Okay.. I tried to look elsewhere and bit back and didnt see anything about this but it seems MacBook has serious heat problems like MBP. I find this really sad and MacBook service manual makes me cry... seriously...

i give ye links: (clicky me) (http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=295925) and then read the bottom part where is the heat issue from here: (clicky me) (http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2946&review=Apple+MacBook) Sorry.. but.. what is wrong with apple with that thermal paste? and seriously... to cool off at wall ac, is bit EXTREME, I did that last time when I was taking motherboard off from HP laptop and testing overclocking at extreme :cool:

Ok, I'll bite, does this have any grounding in reality for the MB (not the MBP)? Or is this like the metal case under the black?

[Cybergypsy]

Ooh, good to know. Here's a silly question - I'm not too up on shipping details... does Saturday count as a "business day"?
No....sorry

[matticus008]

What everyone wants: everything ;), but I'd settle for tap select :o
What does that mean? If a left click selects, a tap selects.

There seem to be some sprockets missing in this 'logic' and that which followed it. It can't pose a substantial financial threat if for every Mac that is sold OS X is also sold at the same profit ratio that Apple is currently happily pocketing (more power to them).
There's nothing missing; you're just not looking at the larger picture. It's not that it would affect the profitability of each machine, it's that it would affect the profitability and longevity of the brand. The investment and development curve is dependent on Apple selling OS X and people using it. They cannot start selling Windows, because it inevitably leads to "why should I switch to OS X at all if I can just keep on using everything from my last PC?" and it alerts stockholders to an admission of competency. If Apple is willing to sell (Edit: WINDOWS, not OS X), that means it's an acceptable alternative to Apple's own product and if the manufacturer isn't willing to stick to its own products, the media picks up on the signal and it comes across as weakness. The downstream effect is the unraveling of OS X.

Of course, OS market share can be seen in terms of units shipped/sold and usage which are not always the same although except in this hybrid situation they genearlly are the same.
No, it can't. Market share is not the same as units shipped, and never has been--that's a number best described as units shipped. If OS X is not being used, it doesn't affect market share one iota.
What we are seeing with Boot Camp and the revolutionary realization that you can have the best OS and the most popular on the same system is not really what we've seen in the past. I've lived through many attempts at dual boot systems and NONE of them have had the potential for fulfilling users, managers, and purchasing office requirements like what Apple has sitting in front of them right now.
I don't see why not. GRUB or graphical Lilo do pretty much what Boot Camp does for Windows. There's nothing radical about the solution that Apple has offered other than a step by step setup process.

Selling Windows already on them doesn't take a fracking dime out of their pockets and since their market share is so small anyway common sense, based on watching the trends, would say that there is a far greater potential for people to move to OS X than for fewer people to use Windows over OS X.
It's not about the day of sale or the price of the unit...it's about the back channel effects on the company, which are very real. Business and professional politics follow a set of responses which are not immediately obvious or directly calculable. You can't sacrifice your own brand for someone else, because as soon as you do, all you've accomplished is increasing the force of the other guy. If you've already got 90% of people behind you, and someone else has 5%...once that 5% guy agrees with you, he's done in politics or business, at least on that issue. (On the flip side, if the 90% heavyweight decides to agree with the little guy, there's a huge boost for the 5% guy--see below for the iPod comparison). There really are reasons why lawyers and politicians aren't random people off the street, and I'm not just trying to defend what I do.

Value added, dollars added, OS X stats are higher. Walk me through the down side big threat to Apple and its share-holders.
I already have. It's an admission that Windows is good enough for Mac users, and a media play that Apple can't sell its own OS, so it's going for the cheap path and trying to glean from the Windows herd. The thing holding Apple back in terms of market share isn't anything other than that their market share is low...and selling Windows-loaded Macs doesn't encourage development or growth that would prompt businesses to switch or result in positive market share advances. Without corporate muscle, Apple can't hope to grow too much more. Businesses aren't going to buy Macs when Dells are cheaper and they're tied to Windows software.

Can you provide some examples of this situation with 'other' companies?
IBM's OS/2 developed Windows compatibility. They'd hope to ride on Windows' coat tails and gradually pull off customers, but what actually happened is that Windows developers kept developing for Windows, and OS/2 became pointless. NextStep offered its own hardware and its own OS, and while meeting with critical success, the public reception was lukewarm. They were never able to recover and had to switch to commodity hardware to stay afloat, which in turn flopped because they didn't have the developer muscle to prop them up. There are lots of non-industry examples here, too. A company built on the distinctiveness of its products cannot marginalize that distinctiveness.

Does it really cut into their music player business that I can play music from other sources on my iPod? No. I wouldn't buy one without being able to play music and audio from other sources.
The Windows-OS X issue isn't the same as iTunes-MSN Music-everyone else. The market share war is over, and Apple lost. Music isn't an entrenched issue--you can keep your music from any vendor as long as you retain the player. If Apple started shipping iPods with MSN Music, it would reduce iTunes' market share...because this relationship only works one way.

If Microsoft created OS X compatibility, it would help OS X grow. A small company aligning with a dominant company really only leads it into obscurity. It's not a two-way street, even if it might logically seem to be.

[gmanrique]

:)
Wow best B`day gift you could ever get.(xcept for a really really HOT date)

[Totalshock]

Late to the party, but considering buying, and wanted to clarify on a couple of questions.

1) I assume SafeSleep is supported by default, should I be in a situation down the road where I need to get an extra battery for travel time?

Don't currently have SafeSleep enabled on my 12" 867, but it would have been great to have all the times that this thing went to sleep from lack of power while playing Civ III on a plane, and wouldn't boot back up after switching batteries. What is up with that anyway? But I digress, although it is a good seque into...

2) Will it play Civ IV? I know that Civ IV specs for Mac haven't been published as of the last time I checked... but I'm not sure about the graphics requirement of that game. On the one hand, it's still a world map scenario. On the other hand, there's a lot more going on there....

Oh, and a third that came up out of confusion over DVD a couple of pages ago:

3) Will a homemade (case... meet burner... burner... meet case) DVD burner work with iDVD and the other iApps, or does one have to have an internal SuperDrive, or some sort of Apple-supported DVD burner? (And if the latter, where does one find a list of external burners that get the thumbs up?

Any help would be most appreciated. Thanks!

[mrichmon]

IBM's OS/2 developed Windows compatibility. They'd hope to ride on Windows' coat tails and gradually pull off customers, but what actually happened is that Windows developers kept developing for Windows, and OS/2 became pointless.

Interesting post, but this section on OS/2 mischaracterizes what happened with OS/2 since many Windows technologies were originally developed for OS/2 (e.g. DSOM was developed in OS/2 and then became COM and then DCOM under Windows). OS/2 preceeded Windows 3.0 and arguably the family tree for XP is OS/2 -> Windows NT 3.0 -> Windows NT 4.0 ->Windows 2000 -> Windows XP.

OS/2 was originally jointly developed by Microsoft and IBM as the next step in operating systems. When OS/2 was announced (1987) it was intended to be the successor to MS-DOS and Windows 2.0. For various political reasons MS decided to shift away from this OS/2 strategy and ended up releasing Windows 3.0 in 1990. Microsoft then recast much of their work for OS/2 3.0 as Windows NT and split away from any further OS/2 work leaving OS/2 development to IBM.

From the beginning OS/2 was compatible with Windows win16 programs. Win32 compatiblility was built into the early versions of OS/2 3.0 but with with Microsoft spliting away from OS/2 and the reworking of OS/2 3.0 to produce Windows NT 3.0 this compatibility was broken. (Some would say intentionally broken.)

Ultimately Windows won in the marketplace for various reasons which may or may not been influenced by behaviour by MS that lead to an antitrust suit which MS settled for $775M in cash and $75M in software credit. OS/2 continued to be used until the late 1990s in embedded systems such as ATMs and in thousands of ticket machines for the French national railway.

[Multimedia]

Here is a video of Steve talking with Brian Williams on NBC Nightly News this evening (http://blip.tv/file/33768) from inside the store. :)

Brian explains Brian explains "next week here we will be hearing more about his latest work and creations". :) I guess this marks the official end of the NBC-Microsoft alliance. ;)

[Bolgard]

No....sorry
Bugger. Ah well :)

[matticus008]

Interesting post, but this section on OS/2 mischaracterizes what happened with OS/2 since many Windows technologies were originally developed for OS/2 (e.g. DSOM was developed in OS/2 and then became COM and then DCOM under Windows). OS/2 preceeded Windows 3.0 and arguably the family tree for XP is OS/2 -> Windows NT 3.0 -> Windows NT 4.0 ->Windows 2000 -> Windows XP...
You're right of course. I was going for brevity in a marathon post and skipped the before and after. (There are many nuanced details to the NeXtStep case as well). For a non-computer instance, one can look to Lockheed Martin's attempt at commercial aviation with its L1011...pitted unsuccessfully as it was against the DC-10, it was an attempt to make an inroads into the market which at the time was dominated by the somewhat nightmarish service requirements of the more popular DC-10. No one has heard from Lockheed since (in the commercial aviation field), though arguably it did help pluck the threads that unraveled declining giant McDonnell-Douglas. Boeing's 747 didn't help, either.

So if Apple wants to commit suicide to topple Microsoft, maybe they've got a shot. ;) But it won't be Apple reaping the benefits. We can certainly learn from historical missteps, but you can't turn a lead strategy into gold.

[Gatezone]

What does that mean? If a left click selects, a tap selects.

I'll get off the desktop here in a few minutes and try it out again but I have been unsuccessful in getting the track pad to recognize a tap as a select on an item. Like having the cursor on a button and taping the pad to do the same thing that a click would do. I haven't looked up the add-on product somone else mentioned.


There's nothing missing; ...............alerts stockholders to an admission of competency. If Apple is willing to sell (Edit: WINDOWS, not OS X), that means it's an acceptable alternative to Apple's own product and if the manufacturer isn't willing to stick to its own products, the media picks up on the signal and it comes across as weakness. The downstream effect is the unraveling of OS X.

I understand what you are saying and if this was 15 or even 10 years ago I would see your position on this being stronger than it is today with Apple's and macintosh brand being what it is. They are doing some pretty common sense things to shore up their "Mac" branding with their new products: Power what? Macbook, Macbook Pro... duh now there's a branding decision. Apple has matured a lot from a brand perspective, not only in this specific way.

Back to the point though. I see the fear of the brand weakening or being over-run by windows users, but I think there comes a point where you have greater confidence in your brand, product, service.... and hardware than that.

No, it can't. Market share is not the same as units shipped, and never has been--that's a number best described as units shipped. If OS X is not being used, it doesn't affect market share one iota.

My underlying point is really that at 10% (and I'll bet that is optimistic or units shipped) there is more potential for growth than the fearful brand approach would have you believe. People might even tell the pollsters that they are using Mac OS X when they aren't just to appear more cool (now that the crack Apple advertising campaign has been so suckessful).

Both of us are speculating and there is no hard and fast rule about what would absolutely happen. Hey, I have no illusions about Apple's predictability. I worked for Apple when they had an Gil what's-his-name, for a hot minute, at the helm.

I don't see why not. GRUB or graphical Lilo do pretty much what Boot Camp does for Windows. There's nothing radical about the solution that Apple has offered other than a step by step setup process.

Matticus you have shown your true techie colors... all talk of business politics is out the window now. :p The dead give-away is "nothing... other than a step by step setup process" this is huge in it's simplicity, but it doesn't even compare to pre-installed optional Windows. You can't compare these other forms to something I can teach my ten year old, or more importantly a non-techy client to do. It is radical. See I can make definitive proclamations too :cool:.


...You can't sacrifice your own brand for someone else, because as soon as you do, all you've accomplished is increasing the force of the other guy. If you've already got 90% of people behind you, and someone else has 5%...once that 5% guy agrees with you, he's done in politics or business, at least on that issue. (On the flip side, if the 90% heavyweight decides to agree with the little guy, there's a huge boost for the 5% guy--see below for the iPod comparison). There really are reasons why lawyers and politicians aren't random people off the street, and I'm not just trying to defend what I do.

I do appreciate your perspectives on the corporate political long-term effects, or at least the fears of effects. I'd be happy to jump to the side of letting Mac OS run on generic boxes but that has fallen on deaf ears since the PowerPC debacle, no?

There are multiple strategies for increasing Apple's or OS X market share and I don't think they would have adopted Boot Camp (unless they just plan to try to kill it off) like they have if they were as frightened, as you portray them, of the dynamics you describe.

There are times when a minority can deeply effect a majority if the majority representatives are further imersed into the minority experience and survive to tell about the benefits and spread the meme of something 'hot' that the minority has.

The iPod example may not seem related but I think it is. Apple is making money on the hardware, is it not? Plus on services related to the hardware and music distribution and advertising. It is a fascinating situation where the established software is all proprietary (in the sense that it is only created by the artist) and it is completely compatible with all hardware so it is also non-proprietary. I think the dream of many people is that computer operatingn systems would become far less visible, more like the iPod's embedded and flash system. The fear is that apple would some how lose the lost OS wars? That it can't make money on hardware alone? Can it make it on software alone? Is that why it never licenses it's software? I would say the latter sort of shows a lot less confidence in the OS brand than letting Windows run on an iPod, oops, I mean on a Macbook.


It's an admission that Windows is good enough for Mac users, and a media play that Apple can't sell its own OS, so it's going for the cheap path and trying to glean from the Windows herd. The thing holding Apple back in terms of market share isn't anything other than that their market share is low...and selling Windows-loaded Macs doesn't encourage development or growth that would prompt businesses to switch or result in positive market share advances. Without corporate muscle, Apple can't hope to grow too much more. Businesses aren't going to buy Macs when Dells are cheaper and they're tied to Windows software.

It isn't that Apple *can't* sell it's own OS, it is that it *won't* sell it's own OS... Branding has a lot to do with positioning and spinning (see Apple's failed attempts at spinning in the direction you describe). Dell would sell cheap laptops with OS X on them. But a software company that doesn't sell hardware would go broke, right? Oops, what about Microsoft? I also have to say that when a company like Apple throws beautifully designed monkey wrenches into it's developer and business partner community with major processor shifts and emulation processes it hurts their growth. But they have to and I applaud them doing it.

So to get this straight, Apple doesn't want to sell Windows with it's hardware but will give away a product and the tools to do it on your own. It also doesn't want to sell you their own dog food to run on your XYZ Intel/AMD computer. It wants you to buy their hardware and their OS with fewer build to order options than other major computer manufacturers. It wants to grow it's market share based on the ***public's*** perception of OS X...?

IBM's OS/2 developed Windows compatibility. ...There are lots of non-industry examples here, too. A company built on the distinctiveness of its products cannot marginalize that distinctiveness.

Interesting and good examples, thank you. I don't see them quite in the same league or with the same user base or specialized developer community as OS X and Apple. Apple's distinctiveness is it's OS or its hardware? Both? hardware is really not as distinctive as it once was is it? I mean it's good and it might be the best PC hardware in some ways, but it is just like another PC hardware commodity because Apple had to eat crow and turn to Intel. So the software and interface is the heart of the distinctiveness or unique selling point. But they don't want to separate it from their marginally distinctive hardware, and it would signal, according to you, Apple raising a white flag if they offered windows dual boot as a bto option.

Hey I'm learning in this dialogue but there are circles that still don't make sense politically or logically.


The Windows-OS X issue isn't the same as iTunes-MSN Music-everyone else. The market share war is over, and Apple lost. Music isn't an entrenched issue--you can keep your music from any vendor as long as you retain the player. If Apple started shipping iPods with MSN Music, it would reduce iTunes' market share...because this relationship only works one way.

If Microsoft created OS X compatibility, it would help OS X grow. A small company aligning with a dominant company really only leads it into obscurity. It's not a two-way street, even if it might logically seem to be.

If the ipod went out with both on it do you really think that given the choice people would choose MSN? I mean you can't force people to buy one experience over another if they really like it. People really like the iPod and iTunes experience. While WWI, WWII, Vietnam, and the Desert Storm OS wars are over and Apple lost, I think given the choice of OS and the applications, (your good points about developers insert here) more than 10% of the market would choose OS X.

[matticus008]

Like having the cursor on a button and taping the pad to do the same thing that a click would do. I haven't looked up the add-on product somone else mentioned.
Unless there's something wrong with yours, it should work just fine. It does on my PowerBook and on the MBP I tried, at least.


I understand what you are saying and if this was 15 or even 10 years ago I would see your position on this being stronger than it is today with Apple's and macintosh brand being what it is.
It's not time dependent. Apple, if it's going to continue to develop both hardware and software, cannot compromise the software, because it's OS X that makes them distinctive.

I think there comes a point where you have greater confidence in your brand, product, service.... and hardware than that.
You've obviously never done a press conference or an investor conference :). It's not your own confidence in your products that's the issue, its shareholder and media confidence, and I assure you that's not an unpredictable response in the slightest.

My underlying point is really that at 10% (and I'll bet that is optimistic or units shipped) there is more potential for growth than the fearful brand approach would have you believe.
The thing is, that's not growth. It's more sales, but it's not a market share expansion. For Apple, they have to tie their hardware sales to OS X, because they're not willing to license the OS, so the only way to increase market share and therefore investment and further cyclical growth is to make sure that people who buy Macs primarily use OS X. If they are only shipping Windows boxes, they get to make more money in the short term, but it's not sustainable growth and it's not at all a prudent business move.

Both of us are speculating and there is no hard and fast rule about what would absolutely happen.
I'm afraid that's not accurate. There's no saying for sure what Apple will and won't do, but there absolutely is a predictable response and consequence if they were to start providing Windows, and historical precedent that such a move is not "survivable."

You can't compare these other forms to something I can teach my ten year old, or more importantly a non-techy client to do. It is radical. See I can make definitive proclamations too :cool:.
Yes I can...Lilo and GRUB offer graphical OS selection just like the Boot Camp boot process. A four year old could use it. What Apple has done is provide step by step instructions on the computer itself...but even a 10 year old could follow any of the dozens of install guides on the Internet for dual booting. With the right instructions, anyone can dual boot on any computer.


I do appreciate your perspectives on the corporate political long-term effects, or at least the fears of effects. I'd be happy to jump to the side of letting Mac OS run on generic boxes but that has fallen on deaf ears since the PowerPC debacle, no?
That's an entirely different discussion, my friend.

There are multiple strategies for increasing Apple's or OS X market share and I don't think they would have adopted Boot Camp (unless they just plan to try to kill it off) like they have if they were as frightened, as you portray them, of the dynamics you describe.
The cause-effect scenario I'm talking about applies to Apple offering Windows as a BTO option. The existence of Boot Camp is completely separate from that. There is a difference between permitting and encouraging, and Apple is right at that line, positioned exactly where they should be from a corporate-political perspective.

There are times when a minority can deeply effect a majority if the majority representatives are further imersed into the minority experience and survive to tell about the benefits and spread the meme of something 'hot' that the minority has.
Yes, but you're not talking about that. You're talking about increasing Apple sales via selling Windows PCs...so the "minority experience" isn't relevant beyond an idle curiosity.

The iPod example may not seem related but I think it is. Apple is making money on the hardware, is it not? [...] That it can't make money on hardware alone? Can it make it on software alone? Is that why it never licenses it's software? I would say the latter sort of shows a lot less confidence in the OS brand than letting Windows run on an iPod, oops, I mean on a Macbook.
Apple can't really survive without one or the other. People love the integration of hardware and software that Apple provides, and concurrently, Apple's existence relies on that synergy. The iPod is the exact opposite of the Mac. The iPod is both the most populare hardware and uses the most popular software. The Macintosh is neither the best-selling computer line nor is it the best-selling OS. Again, Apple's confidence in their own brand is not at stake.

Dell would sell cheap laptops with OS X on them.
We're not talking about that here. There are different forces discouraging that behavior (namely, Apple's software is funded directly by its hardware sales, so expanding the software scope would require a reworking of their finances).

But a software company that doesn't sell hardware would go broke, right? Oops, what about Microsoft?
Microsoft has a 90% market share. Apple has about 4%. There's no competitive commercial OS to fight Windows. It's not that software companies or hardware companies can't be profitable; it's that Apple is BOTH, and they can't abandon that on a whim because they've got nothing to fall back on. Their ongoing stabilitiy is dependent on the synergy of both halves.
So to get this straight, Apple doesn't want to sell Windows with it's hardware but will give away a product and the tools to do it on your own.
Precisely. That's the confidence in their brand. They will sell you a computer. Once it's in your hands, they're okay with you doing whatever you want with it, because they're confident you'll like OS X and stick with it. But that's a totally different beast from them selling you Windows from the factory. You're talking about Microsoft selling and supporting Linux as an optional add-on to Windows (of their own free will and not because they're forced to in order to avoid legal entanglement) versus Microsoft having tools to allow you to prepare to dual-boot your computer with Linux.

It wants you to buy their hardware and their OS with fewer build to order options than other major computer manufacturers. It wants to grow it's market share based on the ***public's*** perception of OS X...?
Why knock the hardware's limited configurations? Aren't you the one who wants to buy the Mac hardware to run Windows? If configurability is a problem, wouldn't you rather have a Dell?
Apple's distinctiveness is it's OS or its hardware? Both? hardware is really not as distinctive as it once was is it? I mean it's good and it might be the best PC hardware in some ways, but it is just like another PC hardware commodity because Apple had to eat crow and turn to Intel. So the software and interface is the heart of the distinctiveness or unique selling point.
It's both, because the hardware pays for the software. The software is the heart of that distinctiveness, yes. But the software cannot survive independent of the hardware, both in terms of finances and of support and development.

If the ipod went out with both on it do you really think that given the choice people would choose MSN? I mean you can't force people to buy one experience over another if they really like it. People really like the iPod and iTunes experience.
Yes, people do. But diffusion of customers goes from the dominant outward, not the other way when the dominant player introduces a minority. The iPod situation is the exact opposite of the Mac situation (iPod=Apple dominance in hardware/software versus Mac=Apple lightweight in both sides). iTunes has a tremendous volume, and MSN Music is constantly improving to try to catch it. There's a far higher statistical risk that iTunes customers will switch away from it than will switch to iTunes, because chances are they're already using iTunes. This is exactly why Microsoft doesn't bundle OS X or Linux and why it refuses to port certain key technologies to those platforms, and exactly why MSN Music is NOT offered for iPods.

[bloodycape]

No, you cannot. There is no "graphics chip" on the motherboard to swap out. It's built directly into the Intel chipset.
I guess the guy swapped something out but I could have sworn it was the GFX he did on his intel laptop.

[Gatezone]

Unless there's something wrong with yours, it should work just fine. It does on my PowerBook and on the MBP I tried, at least.

While it would be nice if it did, I cannot make my macbook do the following:

move the cursor to an icon and then tap one or two fingers on the touch pad and have the icon open without further action. I can put the cursor over an icon, press with two fingers AND click and get a context drop down (control click) menu. Wouldn't work on the powebook 15, doesn't work on the Macbook. A utility or 3rd party might enable it to do this, or if you point me to a system setting I'd be most happy to enable it.

As for the rest, Matticus, you seem to have the answers you need and I respectfully disagree with any number of your opinions you present as definitive answers.

Foolishly, I'm more interested in exploratory dialogue not "this is the way it is" and if you don't see it that way then obviously you've never done X. That's a show stopper. If you know exactly what will happen, why, and probably when -- then ok you're all set then. It isn't a dialogue. Letting the thread die will, I am sure, will be a relief to many who have to skip over our lengthy dialogues to get to the next macbook post.

I've been around on the front lines long enough to know that things don't always go by the MBA, accountants, lawyers, or certified technicians book of rules, predictions, and indicators.

Just to wrap up my portion of the show, I don't have any big push to have Windows take over the Mac hardware platform. Hardly. I simply see it as another opportunity to increase exposure of OS X and Apple hardware to a greater number of people who know they can live without a Mac, but who feel that their current 9-5 professional life demands that they work or live in a PC dominant work culture.

I experience your positions as well written yet they come across to me as: "No, it's corporate politics, no it's hardware, no it's software, no there is no money in hardware, no hardware supports the software, no it's not sales it's marketshare, etc...." and they need to be read carefully to determine if they really add up to a cogent whole, they don't for me.

Off to a weekend of sorts.

[daneoni]

Well, I don't know for sure, but you're right. They can't tell if you replace the disk and when it came time to send it in for service you switched back. I think the problem is that Apple has not communicated down to the retail store level an official decision on the MacBook hard disk.

RAM replacement has never voided your warranty in the past, and even hard disk replacement doesn't on a desktop. Apple employees are probably quoting the MacBook Pro/old iBook policy on hard disks; I'm pretty sure Apple would not void your warranty for a HD replacement as easily as it is done on the MacBook. (And as you say they couldn't even tell if they wanted to!)

You might wanna be careful they CAN tell if you've upgraded your Hard Drive or Optical Drive because the ones that come with the system originally, have a "Manufactured for Apple...with the Apple logo" label attached to the them

[daneoni]

There is an L-bracket that covers the hard drive/RAM openings from the battery. I imagine that could be referred to as a "RAM door." It requires the use of a Phillips screwdriver -- size 0 worked well for me.


I have not seen an external FW 2.5" enclosure for SATA drives. Have you? If so, please post a link, as I was the first to say the 160GB doesn't come in SATA flavor yet but someone replied "yes, they are out." :rolleyes:



I doubt Apple will make it immediately available. They are not shipping 500GB HD's in desktops, are they? It took Apple some time to make 400GB a BTO option. It could take quite a few months before they make the 160GB available, and that's after they actually start to ship.

They are, the iMacs have a 500GB HD option as do the PowerMacs but i agree it will take a while before we see 160GB HDs

[matticus008]

While it would be nice if it did, I cannot make my macbook do the following:

move the cursor to an icon and then tap one or two fingers on the touch pad and have the icon open without further action.
Okay, I see what you're saying. That's not select, though, that's open or double-click. Third-party utilities can do that for you if that's your goal.

I respectfully disagree with any number of your opinions you present as definitive answers.
And you're entitled to, but I would press you for which "definitive answers" are opinion in nature.

Foolishly, I'm more interested in exploratory dialogue not "this is the way it is"
It's been an exploratory dialogue in that you pose "what if" scenarios which do have answers and consequences. That conversation has been exhausted, however, as you suggest.

I've been around on the front lines long enough to know that things don't always go by the MBA, accountants, lawyers, or certified technicians book of rules, predictions, and indicators.
And I've been around law, politics, engineering, and marketing long enough to know that some actions have direct consequences. Media and stockholder response is not a random bag.

I simply see it as another opportunity to increase exposure of OS X and Apple hardware to a greater number of people who know they can live without a Mac, but who feel that their current 9-5 professional life demands that they work or live in a PC dominant work culture.
And Boot Camp does exactly that. Preinstalling Windows doesn't increase exposure. The genius of boot camp is that in order to get Windows working, you've got to use OS X for a few minutes. If you never have to, you lose that exposure.

I experience your positions as well written yet they come across to me as: "No, it's corporate politics, no it's hardware, no it's software, no there is no money in hardware, no hardware supports the software, no it's not sales it's marketshare, etc...." and they need to be read carefully to determine if they really add up to a cogent whole, they don't for me.
That's only because you keep moving the goal post. The answer to which of your questions should add up to a cogent whole? I never said that there was no money in hardware, and the sales v. market share thing is a misunderstanding on your part that undermines your hypothetical suggestions, as does what appears to be a lack of consideration for what finances the whole Apple operation, which is as concrete an indicator as any.

[faintember]

You might wanna be careful they CAN tell if you've upgraded your Hard Drive or Optical Drive because the ones that come with the system originally have a "Manufactured for Apple...with the Apple logo" label attached to the themHe also mentioned putting the original one "the one with the Apple logo" back into the MB before sending it for servicing.

In otherwords, they will have no clue.

[daneoni]

He also mentioned putting the original one "the one with the Apple logo" back into the MB before sending it for servicing.

In otherwords, they will have no clue.

Cunning, i like it!.

[jagolden]

I wont second it at all. Coz definitely a black paint job cant cost 150$ at all. And from the way I see things, this will very soon be changed. Apple definitely cant charge 150$ extra for black color forever. IMO by the year end it`ll be reduced to a much sensible 50$. or even less. So you are paying atleast 100$ extra just to make your MB look a little better? Only a fool wud pay 150$ for a black color.

Now before you start. Lemme clear that I was(and still am a lil bit) one of those FOOLS who really wanted a Black MB at any cost, even had the money but had to be satisfied with White in the end as I was left with no other option:( .

But now with a White one in my lap, I m more than satisfied with the white color. There`s no way anyone can mistake it for a G4 iBook. It`s way too better than G4.

So all those of you who want to buy a Black MB for 150$ premium; I dont think nothing wrong with your idea. Black definitely is cool IMO. But white too is pretty good.

Let's see - we're fools for wanting a black one (at begining of your post), but it's OK by the end of your post?

The only fool I see here spells
Coz
cant
wud
Lemme

and says
"It's way too better"

Oh yeah. You're happy with the white because you couldn't have the patience to wait for a black one.

[MacsomJRR]

I wonder if this means they are going to release a black MBP at some point. It'd look so sweet:)

[netdog]

So much for the Microsoft-NBC alliance. ;)

Microsoft is not at war with Apple. They are not even threatened by Apple. In fact, as Gates keeps pointing out, Apple users are good Microsoft clients, and this is even more true with Boot Camp and Parallels. Featuring Jobs actually help's NBC's partner to sell more software.

Nice video post though!!!

[MrCrowbar]

Microsoft is not at war with Apple. They are not even threatened by Apple. In fact, as Gates keeps pointing out, Apple users are good Microsoft clients, and this is even more true with Boot Camp and Parallels. Featuring Jobs actually help's NBC's partner to sell more software.

Where can I get Parallel's Workstation Beta anyway? Got some WMV3 videos here and I don't want to boot in windows just for them...

[netdog]

Where can I get Parallel's Workstation Beta anyway? Got some WMV3 videos here and I don't want to boot in windows just for them...

Parallels beta to run Virtualized Windows (http://www.parallels.com) (no reboot required)

[MrCrowbar]

Parallels beta to run Virtualized Windows (http://www.parallels.com) (no reboot required)

thx

EDIT: LOL. I got my iMac with a second screen hooked up. So now I have OSX on the iMac screen and the windows XP installation running full screen on hte external display. Pretty cool indeed :)

EDIT: Parallels Workstation works fine. But I can't play those WMV3 videos with VLC Player on the VM. Works fine when I boot in windows, but here, I just have no picture :I any help?

[iEdd]

I wonder if this means they are going to release a black MBP at some point. It'd look so sweet:)
I highly doubt that will happen. Consumer=B/W, Pro=Aluminium. If pro was suddenly Dell flavour black like the macbook, it would confuse things.

[AidenShaw]

thx

EDIT: LOL. I got my iMac with a second screen hooked up. So now I have OSX on the iMac screen and the windows XP installation running full screen on hte external display. Pretty cool indeed :)

EDIT: Parallels Workstation works fine. But I can't play those WMV3 videos with VLC Player on the VM. Works fine when I boot in windows, but here, I just have no picture :I any help?
1. Do they play with WMP in the VM?
2. Did you install the special drivers/tools kit in the VM?
3. Did you turn off "video acceleration" or "overlay video" in the VM (a video player option)?

The emulated "video card" in the base VM is extremely stupid, there's a better one in the drivers/tools kit.

Even then, it's still pretty primitive. Some video acceleration features aren't available to the player in the VM.

[ch1503]

helloo mac n00bie here..
i just wanted to ask all u teckies what kind of ram i would need to buy to get if i wanted to upgarde my mac book...
cheers :)

[daneoni]

helloo mac n00bie here..
i just wanted to ask all u teckies what kind of ram i would need to buy to get if i wanted to upgarde my mac book...
cheers :)

This (http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.asp?Mfr%2BProductline=Apple%2BMacBook&mfr=Apple&tabid=AM&model=MacBook+2.0GHz+Intel+Core+Duo+%2813-inch+White%29&submit=Go)

[MrCrowbar]

helloo mac n00bie here..
i just wanted to ask all u teckies what kind of ram i would need to buy to get if i wanted to upgarde my mac book...
cheers :)

667 MHz DDR2 SO-DIMM (PC 5300)

[Shadow]

Hey everyone, I'm sure these questions have been asked before, but what the hey.
Regarding the MacBook screen: Is it really really shiney, like a mirror? In normal lighting conditions (ie indoors) can you see yourself clearly? I like the HP zd8000(?) sereis screen-but I'm not sure on the specific model.

Regarding the keyboard: Is it easy to use? Is it any different than a normal laptop keyboard? How long does it take to 'adjust'?

Thanks everyone, I'm looking to buy a 1.83GHz MacBook with 80GB HDD and 1GB RAM.

[MrCrowbar]

1. Do they play with WMP in the VM?
2. Did you install the special drivers/tools kit in the VM?
3. Did you turn off "video acceleration" or "overlay video" in the VM (a video player option)?

The emulated "video card" in the base VM is extremely stupid, there's a better one in the drivers/tools kit.

Even then, it's still pretty primitive. Some video acceleration features aren't available to the player in the VM.

Thx for the quick response. I turned off every hardware renderers, but I won't work. WMP does not play it either (does not play it on my windows PC but didn't find them.). Where do you find that drives/tools kit? I searched and Spotlighted for it but couldn't find it. If you mean the drivers from the CD you burn when installing boot camp, it says it is not compatible with my hardware...

[LifeCoach]

Hey I've been reading the forums for a while now and I'll be switching to a Mac soon because I'm fed up with PC's and after reading up on mac's they just seem so much better. I'll be buying my first mac next week and I think it's gonna be the Macbook, which leads me to my questions.....

1) Will Pro Tools M-Powered (when its universal) work well and what will the track count be like with 1 gig of ram?

2) Will Ableton Live and other similar programs such as reason and logic run well and be able to handle a decent amount of software instruments etc.

3) I'm gonna be buying a mac desktop (possibly the new powermac whenever it arrives) so will I be able to network the the macbook with the powermac and use both mac's together for combined processor power?

I have so many more questions but thats enough for just now. Thanks in advance for any help people can give me.:)

[netdog]

thx

EDIT: LOL. I got my iMac with a second screen hooked up. So now I have OSX on the iMac screen and the windows XP installation running full screen on hte external display. Pretty cool indeed :)

EDIT: Parallels Workstation works fine. But I can't play those WMV3 videos with VLC Player on the VM. Works fine when I boot in windows, but here, I just have no picture :I any help?

You need this: Parallels Support Forum for Mac OS X (http://forum.parallels.com/forum53.html)

[netdog]

Thx for the quick response. I turned off every hardware renderers, but I won't work. WMP does not play it either (does not play it on my windows PC but didn't find them.). Where do you find that drives/tools kit? I searched and Spotlighted for it but couldn't find it. If you mean the drivers from the CD you burn when installing boot camp, it says it is not compatible with my hardware...

Once you install Parallels and Windows within it, but sure to to open the Windows guest, and then in the Parallels menu at the top of Mac screen choose VM, Install Parallels Tools. This will install everything you need in Windows to really get Parallels running right.

The forum is really great btw. Use it. (see my other reply above)

To get your file onto the Windows Virtual Machine, either download it through Windows or share it through a shared file on your Mac. Windows Media Player should then play it just fine.

[liketom]

i think i'm gonna wait a few more weeks before i get my Macbook;)

in the mean time i shall have to make do with this :D

P.S , it's not mine BTW it my brother's

[Multimedia]

helloo mac n00bie here..
i just wanted to ask all u teckies what kind of ram i would need to buy to get if i wanted to upgarde my mac book...
cheers :)Go to Ramseeker.com (http://Ramseeker.com) and search at top for MacBook Pro (same ram), then click on the PRICE LINK $71.99 across from Omni OPTIVAL listing which will take you to the Omni page where you can buy at that price. Any other path will cost you a LOT MORE. :)

[Multimedia]

Regarding Page 90 Post #2226 Here is a video of Steve talking with Brian Williams on NBC Nightly News this evening (http://blip.tv/file/33768) from inside the store. :)

Brian explains Brian explains "next week here we will be hearing more about his latest work and creations". :) I guess this marks the official end of the NBC-Microsoft alliance. ;)Microsoft is not at war with Apple. They are not even threatened by Apple. In fact, as Gates keeps pointing out, Apple users are good Microsoft clients, and this is even more true with Boot Camp and Parallels. Featuring Jobs actually help's NBC's partner to sell more software.

Nice video post though!!!Thanks NetDog. Just so you know, NBC bought out Microsoft's half of MSNBC last year. Microsoft no longer owns any part of MSNBC. They have not been co-owners in alliance since last year. I was just commenting like that because this is the first time I've seen NBC pay so much attention to Apple and Steve Jobs.

[netdog]

Thanks NetDog. Just so you know, NBC bought out Microsoft's half of MSNBC last year. Microsoft no longer owns any part of MSNBC. They have not been co-owners in alliance since last year. I was just commenting like that because this is the first time I've seen NBC pay so much attention to Apple and Steve Jobs.

Jobs is really amazing at getting media coverage. Very high TVQ. Gates and Ballmer, on the other hand, well...

[Multimedia]

Crowd Is Surprisingly Small Now - Still No Queue At 8AM. Wow. I can't believe the queue didn't last all night given the hourly MacBook giveaway. Where did everybody go? I would have stayed there the entire 24 hours for sure. :confused: :eek: I am shocked the line did not remain long throughout the entire 24-hour period. :eek:

[mkrishnan]

in the mean time i shall have to make do with this :D

:D

It took me a few moments to figure out what, among several options, I was looking at. Hehehehehe.... Nice. :)

[MrCrowbar]

Once you install Parallels and Windows within it, but sure to to open the Windows guest, and then in the Parallels menu at the top of Mac screen choose VM, Install Parallels Tools. This will install everything you need in Windows to really get Parallels running right.

The forum is really great btw. Use it. (see my other reply above)

To get your file onto the Windows Virtual Machine, either download it through Windows or share it through a shared file on your Mac. Windows Media Player should then play it just fine.


Thx. I had to install the "k-lite codec pack". There's an old Media Player with it that actually plays the files. Not very fluid, but better than nothing.