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MacRumors
May 18, 2006, 08:31 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

With the introduction of the Apple MacBook (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/05/20060516090301.shtml), one of the new features offered to end users is the ability for users to replace the internal hard drive. Typically, Apple laptop hard drive replacement has required the involvement authorized technician in the past.

Both the MacBook's RAM and Hard Drive are accessible through a panel under the battery and the process has been detailed in this Video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=8c6ckjy-gdY) from MacWorld.

MacWorld also provides the first benchmarks (http://www.macworld.com/2006/05/firstlooks/macbookbench/index.php) of the new MacBook, comparing it to the G4 iBooks it replaces as well as the current MacBook Pro and iMac.

amateurmacfreak
May 18, 2006, 08:33 PM
Cool. Makes it look very, very easy. :)

EDIT: Benchmarks look great too, but I'd go for MBP for looks and graphics.

Temujin
May 18, 2006, 08:39 PM
The "ram-levers" is quite ingenious IMO.

yankeefan24
May 18, 2006, 08:39 PM
Wow. Can't wait until tomorrow night (when I might get one)! Looks so easy.

Pokeon
May 18, 2006, 08:39 PM
Benchmarks arent as good as a I hoped but are alittle better then I expected

runninmac
May 18, 2006, 08:40 PM
Wow that Hard Drive is amazing!

Heb1228
May 18, 2006, 08:40 PM
I didn't think upgrading RAM could get much easier than it was in the Powerbook and iBook G4s. Little stuff like this is one of the many reasons I love Apple.

jeremy.king
May 18, 2006, 08:42 PM
Are all those apps Universal? Why even bother comparing PS in Rosetta on an Intel vs. native on a G4?

Xephian
May 18, 2006, 08:49 PM
Did better than I expected in C4D.

yankeefan24
May 18, 2006, 08:51 PM
Are all those apps Universal? Why even bother comparing PS in Rosetta on an Intel vs. native on a G4?

I don't know about all of them but PS is not universal. I repeat not universal.

dagger01
May 18, 2006, 08:51 PM
I want to know why a 2GHz Core Duo iMac and a 2GHz Core Duo MacBook don't give the same results? The only thing different about them is the hard drive speed and that certainly shouldn't impact these tests enough to skew the results that far.

EDIT: Except the Zip file creation and the graphics test, I'd see that as obvious.

emaja
May 18, 2006, 08:52 PM
The "ram-levers" is quite ingenious IMO.

As is the ease by which the DS can be replaced.

Apple trumps everyone in ease of use.

GeoffRuth
May 18, 2006, 08:52 PM
Are all those apps Universal? Why even bother comparing PS in Rosetta on an Intel vs. native on a G4?


For a couple reasons:

(a) The Intel is significantly faster in raw clock speed, and has has two cores. Thus, it's reasonable to think that the Macbook version might match the iBook G4 version.

(b) For people who NEED to use Adobe app's, knowing whether it matches the G4-optimized version is an important thing to know.

MrCrowbar
May 18, 2006, 08:53 PM
I guess the hard drive (5400 rpm) is what slows the Macbook down compared to the iMac 20". The iMovei Filter is on the GPU, right? Kinda impressed about that GMA thingie. Really seems to handle 2D stuff well. And it ouperforms the iBook on 3D by little. :p
Face it, gaming mashines are expensive. If you want a thing for gaming, Falcon Northwest has some nice stuff. I'll stick with Apple for the useful every day stuff.

dongmin
May 18, 2006, 08:57 PM
I found this interesting:

UT2004 test:

21.4 fps: PowerBook 15" 1.67ghz (Mobility Radeon 9700)
17.8 fps: MacBook 13" 1.83ghz x2 (Intel 950)

So, compared to the old PowerBooks, the integrated Intel graphics is actually not that bad. I imagine the significantly faster CPU helps somewhat.

X5-452
May 18, 2006, 09:06 PM
I want to know why a 2GHz Core Duo iMac and a 2GHz Core Duo MacBook don't give the same results? The only thing different about them is the hard drive speed and that certainly shouldn't impact these tests enough to skew the results that far.

EDIT: Except the Zip file creation and the graphics test, I'd see that as obvious.

They give very similar results in several tests. The only difference between them, aside from hard drive speed, is that the MacBook has integrated graphics, while the iMac has a dedicated card.

tonyl
May 18, 2006, 09:16 PM
I found this interesting:

UT2004 test:

21.4 fps: PowerBook 15" 1.67ghz (Mobility Radeon 9700)
17.8 fps: MacBook 13" 1.83ghz x2 (Intel 950)

So, compared to the old PowerBooks, the integrated Intel graphics is actually not that bad. I imagine the significantly faster CPU helps somewhat.
Right, Macbook is great for regular use, not for gaming.

gael.deest
May 18, 2006, 09:17 PM
Wow. Non-gamers really don't need to go pro. Or does the integrated noticeably affect the responsiveness of the GUI ?

--------------------------
http://www.fifth-essence.net: OS X, Qt and Ruby programming, and much more !

Capt Underpants
May 18, 2006, 09:21 PM
Depressing framerates... exactly what was expected though :(

Otherwise it's an awesome machine. I'm still deciding whether it's worth it (for me at least... I was hoping to consolidate my mac and gaming PC, but the macbook won't do it). It would make my mac experience much better, but I'd have to keep the PC. Decisions decisions...

nem3015
May 18, 2006, 09:21 PM
MacBook 2.0 White with 2Gb Ram and 120Gb disk

Apple Store $2049
Do it yourself $1620

and doing it doesn't void your warranty :D

just hurts Apple feelings maybe a little bit lol

QCassidy352
May 18, 2006, 09:29 PM
I found this interesting:

UT2004 test:

21.4 fps: PowerBook 15" 1.67ghz (Mobility Radeon 9700)
17.8 fps: MacBook 13" 1.83ghz x2 (Intel 950)

So, compared to the old PowerBooks, the integrated Intel graphics is actually not that bad. I imagine the significantly faster CPU helps somewhat.

Are you kidding me? Those benchmarks convinced me once and for all just how unbelievably horrible the integrated graphics are. A 2.0 core duo edges out a 1.42 Ghz G4 (which itself only has a 32 MB card!) and loses to a 1.67 G4?? Absolutely disgusting. Look at what the core duo can do with a decent chip (imac and mbp)... the integrated graphics are totally hamstringing a fantastic processor.

ulyssespdx
May 18, 2006, 09:32 PM
you know, every time see see a new Apple product, i wonder about the benchmarks.

i have a 12" Aluminum Powerbook G4/1.33GHz, w/1Gb RAM. i opened MS Word 2004.

it took about 12 seconds.

i went to the Apple store yesterday, found a MacBook Pro Core Duo 2 GHz, and opened MS Word 2004.

it took about 9 seconds.

i repeated this for Excel, Photoshop, and GarageBand. all were within a few seconds of each other.

operating the programs on both machines, i noticed very little difference in operating speed and snappiness.

up to five times faster than my G4? bull.

that said, i want the new black MacBook. :)

bwanac
May 18, 2006, 09:32 PM
Replacing hard drive was never difficult... but this is a cakewalk!

j-a-x
May 18, 2006, 09:38 PM
It's weird that they didn't compare it with a 12" powerbook, since that's the machine it's replacing.
I want to know whether upgrading would be worth it (even though I can't afford that right now).

Mainyehc
May 18, 2006, 09:42 PM
you know, every time see see a new Apple product, i wonder about the benchmarks.

i have a 12" Aluminum Powerbook G4/1.33GHz, w/1Gb RAM. i opened MS Word 2004.

it took about 12 seconds.

i went to the Apple store yesterday, found a MacBook Pro Core Duo 2 GHz, and opened MS Word 2004.

it took about 9 seconds.

i repeated this for Excel, Photoshop, and GarageBand. all were within a few seconds of each other.

operating the programs on both machines, i noticed very little difference in operating speed and snappiness.

up to five times faster than my G4? bull.

that said, i want the new black MacBook. :)


Do you even know that the new Macs have INTEL PROCESSORS inside them? The x86 architecture is entirely different from PowerPC so all of those apps except Garageband, being PowerPC apps, have to be translated on the fly by Rosetta (and they are all really heavyweight... PS? Whoa!). The simple fact they even run at all should seem as miracle in itself! So stop trolling and read before you post:

http://www.apple.com/rosetta/
http://guides.macrumors.com/Rosetta

Oh, and btw, FreeHand 11 absolutely FLIES on a 17'' iMac CoreDuo 1.8 GHz, when compared with my Rev. A 20'' iMac G5 1.8 GHz, and that's under Rosetta... go figure!

ImAlwaysRight
May 18, 2006, 09:49 PM
Replacing hard drive was never difficult... but this is a cakewalk!
You must have never owned an iBook. Calling that not difficult is an understatement. Good move on Apple's part in this laptop, though.

It's weird that they didn't compare it with a 12" powerbook, since that's the machine it's replacing.
Actually, the MacBook replaced both iBook models and the 12" Powerbook. Given its price point and plastic enclosure, it is much more a replacement for the iBook than the Powerbook 12". So I imagine that is why they compared it to the iBook.

ReanimationLP
May 18, 2006, 09:49 PM
Good, now I know when my friend gets one, he plans on bumping it to at least 1 GB soon.

blufire
May 18, 2006, 09:49 PM
you know, every time see see a new Apple product, i wonder about the benchmarks.

i have a 12" Aluminum Powerbook G4/1.33GHz, w/1Gb RAM. i opened MS Word 2004.

it took about 12 seconds.

i went to the Apple store yesterday, found a MacBook Pro Core Duo 2 GHz, and opened MS Word 2004.

it took about 9 seconds.

i repeated this for Excel, Photoshop, and GarageBand. all were within a few seconds of each other.

operating the programs on both machines, i noticed very little difference in operating speed and snappiness.

up to five times faster than my G4? bull.

that said, i want the new black MacBook. :)

Look at the benchmarks. As Mainyehc mentioned, MS Office is not universal and has to be translated on the fly by Rosetta. Plus, how much of a difference do you expect in plain productivity apps (especially Microsoft's)? If you compare a universal app running on the MacBook that isn't held back by the optical drive (iTunes CD encoding) or GPU (UT2k4), then you'll see a significant difference.

MrCrowbar
May 18, 2006, 10:05 PM
I was trying out the keyboard of a black Macbook in a retai store today when I found a sticky thing on my finger. Kinda like these screen protection foils but black with a white A on it. I looked at the A-key and it was (yes) silver! Showed it to the employee and he couldn't believe it. He totally freaked out when he scratched and rubbed the next key and the black sticker went off. Turns out the whole black Macbook has this vinyl style stuff on it. Peel it off and you get Aluminum goodness! It seemed like hours to me when we removed this black stuff and there were lots of people around freaking out.

So the 150$ more ARE making a difference: an aluminum enclosure beneath a protective black layer. :eek: Totally worth 150 bucks if you ask me. It just looks like a redesigned powerbook actually. OMG, I'm so getting a black/aluminum one! How strange no one noted this yet. I mean, them peeling off the black stuff from the NY Store cube was definetely a sign. :rolleyes:
Just kidding. After all, it's MacRmumors (:

job
May 18, 2006, 10:11 PM
Wow, for a moment there you actually had me believing...

Tommyg117
May 18, 2006, 10:12 PM
This is truly amazing, replacing hard drives? The ram looks so easy to change/add. This company can't get much better.

revjay
May 18, 2006, 10:12 PM
I tried that technique on my G5 imac...it smells like Vanilla!

the.snitch
May 18, 2006, 10:13 PM
I was trying out the keyboard of a black Macbook in a retai store today when I found a sticky thing on my finger. Kinda like these screen protection foils but black with a white A on it. I looked at the A-key and it was (yes) silver! Showed it to the employee and he couldn't believe it. He totally freaked out when he scratched and rubbed the next key and the black sticker went off. Turns out the whole black Macbook has this vinyl style stuff on it. Peel it off and you get Aluminum goodness! It seemed like hours to me when we removed this black stuff and there were lots of people around freaking out.

So the 150$ more ARE making a difference: an aluminum enclosure beneath a protective black layer. :eek: Totally worth 150 bucks if you ask me. It just looks like a redesigned powerbook actually. OMG, I'm so getting a black/aluminum one! How strange no one noted this yet. I mean, them peeling off the black stuff from the NY Store cube was definetely a sign. :rolleyes:
Just kidding. After all, it's MacRmumors (:

Paint peeling off? Aaaargh. Its the titanium powerbook fiasco all over again. I want to know more about this. Did you snatch any pics?

edit: I just saw your secret text. Har har harr.

EricNau
May 18, 2006, 10:18 PM
Benchmarks were better than I thought, except for the graphics. :( ...But that can be expected.

the.snitch
May 18, 2006, 10:18 PM
Regarding the video benchmarks, I think that the $200 extra for the BlackBook should also get you a model with a dedicated GPU. There needs to be a laptop under 15" that has a GPU.
Remember the graphite special edition iBooks, better than all the colour ones? This could be done in the same way.

lorenz
May 18, 2006, 10:20 PM
If you think this is the easiest way to change the ram and HD then watch this video that show how the professionals are made this for years
(IBM THINKPAD)


http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?lndocid=MIGR-53381

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?lndocid=MIGR-54551

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?lndocid=MIGR-53369

eric_n_dfw
May 18, 2006, 10:21 PM
Does the MacBook Pro allow you to easily upgrade it's hard drive too? (Does it have a similar setup?)

This is a major plus for the MacBooks, I've always hated that I cannot get at my HD (iBook G4 14") -- in fact, when it went out on me I had to send the whole iBook into AppleCare. Now they should be able to send a replacement drive out and allow those of us who are comfortable with such stuff to do the swap.

I'm really wanting to upgrade my current iBook HD to a faster & larger drive but I'd void what's left of my AppleCare warranty and it requires a near complete disasemly of the thing. Meanwhile my work laptops from Toshiba and Dell have always had single screw access to theirs. EDIT: See above IBM video - that's exactly how the Toshiba and Dell laptops worked.

iMacazine
May 18, 2006, 10:23 PM
http://www.imacazine.com/index.html#unique-entry-id-16

Check out what we have to say about these benchmarks and how you might be able to save $200 on your MacBook without losing much performance.

corywoolf
May 18, 2006, 10:45 PM
Wow, for a moment there you actually had me believing...

I feel bad for the poor fool who tries this. :D

macenforcer
May 18, 2006, 10:47 PM
Yeah as my wife works on her thinkpad at the kitchen table with me and my new macbook we had a good laugh at how her thinkpad is STILL easier to remove the hardrive and ram. Apple finally comes up to speed but not quit. Remember the good ole pismo days? Now THAT was a computer.

bretm
May 18, 2006, 10:59 PM
Replacing hard drive was never difficult... but this is a cakewalk!

But it voided your warranty.

EricNau
May 18, 2006, 11:08 PM
Regarding the video benchmarks, I think that the $200 extra for the BlackBook should also get you a model with a dedicated GPU. There needs to be a laptop under 15" that has a GPU.
Remember the graphite special edition iBooks, better than all the colour ones? This could be done in the same way.
I agree, that $200 should get you at least a ATI Radeon 9000 Mobility (featured in the PowerBooks).
This would keep a large enough gap between the MacBooks and the MacBook Pros, but at the same time offering a nice in-between option.

tangerineyum
May 18, 2006, 11:20 PM
did anyone notice that the new Mac commercials featuring the PC and the hip kid not show the white macbook instead of the imac and the end of the commercial. just saw it now during CSI.

Evangelion
May 18, 2006, 11:21 PM
I agree, that $200 should get you at least a ATI Radeon 9000 Mobility (featured in the PowerBooks).

Huh? Ati Radeon 9000 is ANCIENT. If they offered the bacl one with dedicated GPU, it would cost a lot more extra than $200. It would be quite expensive for apple to make two such different MacBooks.

ibook30
May 18, 2006, 11:30 PM
It's a simple feature (easily removable hard drive) - but it means a lot. My ibook is maxed out on space - and I am putting off doing anything about it. This is the kind of marketing ploy that makes kids like me say "gee, I wish I had THAT computer....". Very clever. Damn you marketeers!

octoberdeath
May 18, 2006, 11:47 PM
even if you can replace all these things i think im going to stick with getting a Macbook Pro. i was wanting to get the smallest Pro laptop but they don't seem to be exactly what i need... though they do look quite nice.

ChrisA
May 19, 2006, 12:32 AM
Are all those apps Universal? Why even bother comparing PS in Rosetta on an Intel vs. native on a G4?

It was helpful to me. I have a G4 Mac Mini. I run Photoshop on it. I was wondering if an 2.0Ghz Intel 20" iMac would run Photoshop faster or slower then my Mini. It turns out PS would run slower on the iMac. That's good information

Lollypop
May 19, 2006, 12:45 AM
I dont think apple really cares about the easy that people can upgrade their hardware, look at the imac G5 and then the isight G5... totally different. The macbook is just a nice way to show off, if apple doesnt like it in the long run they will dump the design.

Leong
May 19, 2006, 12:50 AM
My 12" PBook 867 MHz/640Mb only takes 6 seconds to open MS Word 2004 !!! :D Any explanation for that?

you know, every time see see a new Apple product, i wonder about the benchmarks.

i have a 12" Aluminum Powerbook G4/1.33GHz, w/1Gb RAM. i opened MS Word 2004.

it took about 12 seconds.

i went to the Apple store yesterday, found a MacBook Pro Core Duo 2 GHz, and opened MS Word 2004.

it took about 9 seconds.

i repeated this for Excel, Photoshop, and GarageBand. all were within a few seconds of each other.

operating the programs on both machines, i noticed very little difference in operating speed and snappiness.

up to five times faster than my G4? bull.

that said, i want the new black MacBook. :)

Josias
May 19, 2006, 12:55 AM
When you compare the 1.67 GHz PB G4 to the 1.83 GHz MacBook, remember that the PB has Ati 9700 128 MB DDR! The MacBook has a GMA/950 64 MB DDR! In raw processor speed, the MacBook is 4-5x faster than PB. There is no difference between 1.42 GHz and 1.67 Ghz G4, so it is around the same.:D

nem3015
May 19, 2006, 12:55 AM
I dont think apple really cares about the easy that people can upgrade their hardware, look at the imac G5 and then the isight G5... totally different. The macbook is just a nice way to show off, if apple doesnt like it in the long run they will dump the design.

Can anyone of the lucky owners of a macbook (envious here) make a quick check, and open the hard drive dock and see if there is enough space for a 12.5 mm disk? Reason is because so far the biggest disk available is the 120 fujitsu and seagate. The other 160 available beside being PATA instead of SATA are 12.5 mm due apparently to the use of 3 platters instead of two to achieve that size.
Thanks

ulyssespdx
May 19, 2006, 01:20 AM
Do you even know that the new Macs have INTEL PROCESSORS inside them? The x86 architecture is entirely different from PowerPC so all of those apps except Garageband, being PowerPC apps, have to be translated on the fly by Rosetta (and they are all really heavyweight... PS? Whoa!). The simple fact they even run at all should seem as miracle in itself! So stop trolling and read before you post:

http://www.apple.com/rosetta/
http://guides.macrumors.com/Rosetta

Oh, and btw, FreeHand 11 absolutely FLIES on a 17'' iMac CoreDuo 1.8 GHz, when compared with my Rev. A 20'' iMac G5 1.8 GHz, and that's under Rosetta... go figure!

thanks for the "advice". the problem with it, however, is that Apple marketed the new laptop as 4-5 times faster NOW --hat's right, even with non-Intel CPU-native apps.

or weren't you paying attention, flamer?

and even if you want to argue that point, the fact is--i have to weigh my current Powerbook against what's available NOW. not "sometime soon" IF i want to pay $$ and upgrade all my apps.

in other words, it's not that simple, hater.

generik
May 19, 2006, 01:38 AM
I didn't think upgrading RAM could get much easier than it was in the Powerbook and iBook G4s. Little stuff like this is one of the many reasons I love Apple.

I hope these features will roll into the future MBPs :)

generik
May 19, 2006, 01:46 AM
My 12" PBook 867 MHz/640Mb only takes 6 seconds to open MS Word 2004 !!! :D Any explanation for that?

Broken clock?

Revlefty
May 19, 2006, 01:53 AM
you know, every time see see a new Apple product, i wonder about the benchmarks.

i have a 12" Aluminum Powerbook G4/1.33GHz, w/1Gb RAM. i opened MS Word 2004.

it took about 12 seconds.

i went to the Apple store yesterday, found a MacBook Pro Core Duo 2 GHz, and opened MS Word 2004.

it took about 9 seconds.

i repeated this for Excel, Photoshop, and GarageBand. all were within a few seconds of each other.

operating the programs on both machines, i noticed very little difference in operating speed and snappiness.

up to five times faster than my G4? bull.

that said, i want the new black MacBook. :)

Also, the new Macbooks are only running 512mb to your 1GB.

MrCrowbar
May 19, 2006, 02:17 AM
Wow, for a moment there you actually had me believing...

Spread the rumor. It's fun :)
If multiple users tell AppleInsider, ThinkSecret etc, people will damage their Macbooks and we'll have a lot in the refurb store ;)

toontra
May 19, 2006, 03:08 AM
Replacing hard drive was never difficult... but this is a cakewalk!

You've obviously never replaced an iBook hard drive, so why say that. I have - several. It meant disassembling most of the machine and was laborious, fiddly & time-consuming.

bigandy
May 19, 2006, 03:19 AM
Are you kidding me? Those benchmarks convinced me once and for all just how unbelievably horrible the integrated graphics are. A 2.0 core duo edges out a 1.42 Ghz G4 (which itself only has a 32 MB card!) and loses to a 1.67 G4?? Absolutely disgusting. Look at what the core duo can do with a decent chip (imac and mbp)... the integrated graphics are totally hamstringing a fantastic processor.

umm, you're muddling in processor performance with graphics, when the two don't really have that much in common... why?

despite being intergrated graphics, they're not on the processor.... so why mention CPU?

the IIG is not a flawless, perfect system. it is a choice for a budget range of laptops. which is what the MacBook is, or isn't it?

and looking at these benchmarks, we can see it is not a bad step for the budget range of Mac notebooks, because it is a step forward, not a step backward. It's around the level of the powerbook, which wasn't really great but again not bad, so why, really, are you getting your nickers in such a twist?

macenforcer
May 19, 2006, 03:25 AM
I have been using this macbook for 2 days now and it blows my Powerbook G4 and G5 out of the water. It runs 2 operating systems, it has a camera, it gets great battery life, it looks cool and it was inexpensive. I LOVE IT. Apple finally made a computer I am truly wanting to take with me everywhere and I don't need to drag my PC laptop around anymore. The hard drive replacement and ram just add to the great features. Also, I can attest that the integrated graphics have not shown any sign of weekness thus far. Hooked up to my 23" Flat panel no problem, ran 2 1080 hi def videos without dropped frames. This all with 512mb ram. 2gb coming. WOW. I am really impressed with this sucker, and the keyboard is GREAT. ANother plus, airport range is umbelievable.

Lollypop
May 19, 2006, 03:47 AM
umm, you're muddling in processor performance with graphics, when the two don't really have that much in common... why?

despite being intergrated graphics, they're not on the processor.... so why mention CPU?

the IIG is not a flawless, perfect system. it is a choice for a budget range of laptops. which is what the MacBook is, or isn't it?

and looking at these benchmarks, we can see it is not a bad step for the budget range of Mac notebooks, because it is a step forward, not a step backward. It's around the level of the powerbook, which wasn't really great but again not bad, so why, really, are you getting your nickers in such a twist?

Actually in the case of the GMA graphics on the macbook and the mini the CPU does come into play. The gma doesnt have all the DX9 functionality on the hardware, it uses a software driver to emulate things like pixel shaders, the emulation software will obviously use the CPU, so not only is the CPU taxed by integrated graphics but the memory subsystem is doubly taxed.

The reason the macbook competes so well with a powerbook with a radeon 9700 is that the processor is so much more powerfull, I wont be surprised if when comparing the powerbook to the macbook when running software that is CPU and GPU intensive that the macbook will have some competition from the pwoerbook.

nagromme
May 19, 2006, 04:25 AM
For whatever reason, those MacBooks got MUCH better 3D performance out of UT 2004 than the Core Duo Mac Mini I tested.

They got basically playable (not hard-core smooth) framerates at MAXED detail settings! I wouldn't be surprised to see steady 30fps+ at lower settings. The Mac Mini I tried at min detail got worse fps than MacWorld saw at max detail.

Was something wrong with their test? With mine? I don't know--but I do know that if those reports are true, some casual UT 2004 would actually be fun on a MacBook. (There are some who say you can't have fun below 60fps, but I suspect they are not MacBook's target market. And some say it's detail, not gameplay that makes a game fun... but they haven't tried UT :) Framerate and detail bragging rights are fun, but not as fun as driving a Leviathan up to the enemy's gates! )

bassman
May 19, 2006, 04:45 AM
MacBook 2.0 White with 2Gb Ram and 120Gb disk

Apple Store $2049
Do it yourself $1620

and doing it doesn't void your warranty :D

just hurts Apple feelings maybe a little bit lol



Where did you get your hard drive?

Hattig
May 19, 2006, 06:11 AM
you know, every time see see a new Apple product, i wonder about the benchmarks.

i have a 12" Aluminum Powerbook G4/1.33GHz, w/1Gb RAM. i opened MS Word 2004.

it took about 12 seconds.

i went to the Apple store yesterday, found a MacBook Pro Core Duo 2 GHz, and opened MS Word 2004.

it took about 9 seconds.

i repeated this for Excel, Photoshop, and GarageBand. all were within a few seconds of each other.

operating the programs on both machines, i noticed very little difference in operating speed and snappiness.

up to five times faster than my G4? bull.

that said, i want the new black MacBook. :)

There's a reason that you're not in the benchmarking business.

How often do you open and close applications - something that's mostly limited by hard drive characteristics and not processor speed? In fact with Word 2004, the processor is also having to translate PowerPC code into x86 code, it's a minor miracle that it gets the performance it does.

How about benchmarks of actually using applications instead?

The linked review was bad in that it was a table of figures, instead of some nice clean understandable graphs.

And to the integrated graphics whingers - where the hell would Apple fit the graphics chip in the MacBook - there's no room on the PCB. Apple would have to release a 15.2" MacBook (non-Pro, X1400, 1280x800 still) to be able to fit dedicated graphics in.

Dasmo
May 19, 2006, 06:13 AM
thanks for the "advice". the problem with it, however, is that Apple marketed the new laptop as 4-5 times faster NOW --hat's right, even with non-Intel CPU-native apps.

or weren't you paying attention, flamer?

and even if you want to argue that point, the fact is--i have to weigh my current Powerbook against what's available NOW. not "sometime soon" IF i want to pay $$ and upgrade all my apps.

in other words, it's not that simple, hater.
:rolleyes:

The CPU is apparently 5x faster. That doesn't mean the CPU is going to emulate PowerPC apps 5x faster than they run natively. That also doesn't mean the computer is going to run 5x faster.

What I can tell you is, I switched from a 1.42ghz G4 to a 1.83 Core Duo. I sure did notice the difference in day to day applications and since my job relies on Finder, Firefox (I did have to use a Pre-Release binary), Apple Mail, SubEthaEdit, iCal, Safari, Terminal, Preview and Remote Desktop Connection (I'm sure there's more things I have to use, but they all seem to be universal now, oh yeah office, but I hate that program anyway).

I didn't notice anything but a speed blitz. If you use a large application, you're going to have a problem. If you're a graphics dude and use PS or Flash every minute of the day, I'd tell you to buy a G5. But if you're after doing things faster in general, Intel processors scream compared to the G4. You remember how all the windows guys were trying to convince you that their processor was faster than yours? Well, they were right ok? Macs running with Intel processors is the best thing since clichés.



Is it 5x faster? No. Is it really that much faster? Yes.

Dark Horse
May 19, 2006, 07:03 AM
Where did you get your hard drive?

Seconded. Please post your store links.

Is the 120Gig drive 7200 rpm?

This looks like a mightily attractive option....

maverick808
May 19, 2006, 07:43 AM
thanks for the "advice". the problem with it, however, is that Apple marketed the new laptop as 4-5 times faster NOW --hat's right, even with non-Intel CPU-native apps.

Apple never claimed Rosetta/PPC apps would run 4-5 times faster. If you think they did then please point out where. They only ever said the CPU runs 4-5 times faster (and it does). Clearly, you have read something that said the machine runs 4-5 times faster and your brain has turned that into "all applications ever made will run 4-5 times faster". I'm sorry but Apple is not responsible for conforming to specifications you randomly invent in your head.

ncbill
May 19, 2006, 07:43 AM
According to the datasheet on Seagate's website, the 160GB Momentus is 9.5mm as well.

Since there are plenty of 3rd party vendors offering a 160GB upgrade for the iBook/Powerbook G4s, the above should have been obvious (12.5mm drives haven't been able to fit in Apple portables for a long time now)

Can anyone of the lucky owners of a macbook (envious here) make a quick check, and open the hard drive dock and see if there is enough space for a 12.5 mm disk? Reason is because so far the biggest disk available is the 120 fujitsu and seagate. The other 160 available beside being PATA instead of SATA are 12.5 mm due apparently to the use of 3 platters instead of two to achieve that size.
Thanks

Diddiyo
May 19, 2006, 07:51 AM
i've also written this in the other macbook thread:

Sorry if this has already been posted before.

Here's a Doom3, UT2004, Quake3 Benchmark between a mac mini G4 (radeon 9200) and a mac mini intel (gma 950). though the text is in german, i guess you will understand the images and it will help you to compare the graphic cards.

http://games4mac.de/content_g4m/benchmarks/macmini_intel.php

hmpf!

iGary
May 19, 2006, 07:54 AM
Benchmarks arent as good as a I hoped but are alittle better then I expected

I sure hope Adobe get's it's crap together and starts optimizing Photoshop for Macs better in the CS3 release...It just seems to keep getting further and further behind, while video apps just keep getting better and better...

When a Quad PM G5 is only marginally faster than it's predecessor on PS CS2, something is wrong.

Looks like the MacBook is a smoker, though. :)

QPlot
May 19, 2006, 08:10 AM
I have been using this macbook for 2 days now and it blows my Powerbook G4 and G5 out of the water. It runs 2 operating systems, it has a camera, it gets great battery life, it looks cool and it was inexpensive. I LOVE IT. Apple finally made a computer I am truly wanting to take with me everywhere and I don't need to drag my PC laptop around anymore. The hard drive replacement and ram just add to the great features. Also, I can attest that the integrated graphics have not shown any sign of weekness thus far. Hooked up to my 23" Flat panel no problem, ran 2 1080 hi def videos without dropped frames. This all with 512mb ram. 2gb coming. WOW. I am really impressed with this sucker, and the keyboard is GREAT. ANother plus, airport range is umbelievable.

this is what I thought. But the benchmark didn't actually quite saying this (which is weird), they should do all the tests on boot camp too, especially ps and game, or at this stage I don't think their data means anything more than the official apple site offers. :eek:

jcoffman78
May 19, 2006, 08:36 AM
What is the largest HArd Drive One could put in a Macbook, and where could i get it? I bought the Black MAcbook with an 80 gb HD but plan to get a Larger HD but would like to know about what i asked before.

xli_ne
May 19, 2006, 08:37 AM
Does the MacBook Pro allow you to easily upgrade it's hard drive too? (Does it have a similar setup?)

This is a major plus for the MacBooks, I've always hated that I cannot get at my HD (iBook G4 14") -- in fact, when it went out on me I had to send the whole iBook into AppleCare. Now they should be able to send a replacement drive out and allow those of us who are comfortable with such stuff to do the swap.

I'm really wanting to upgrade my current iBook HD to a faster & larger drive but I'd void what's left of my AppleCare warranty and it requires a near complete disasemly of the thing. Meanwhile my work laptops from Toshiba and Dell have always had single screw access to theirs. EDIT: See above IBM video - that's exactly how the Toshiba and Dell laptops worked.

I'm quotin' this 'cause I would also like to know as well and didn't see anyone answer this question yet.

morespce54
May 19, 2006, 08:41 AM
That makes me a happy owner of a iMac 2GHz Core Duo... :D

Multimedia
May 19, 2006, 09:04 AM
I was trying out the keyboard of a black Macbook in a retai store today when I found a sticky thing on my finger. Kinda like these screen protection foils but black with a white A on it. I looked at the A-key and it was (yes) silver! Showed it to the employee and he couldn't believe it. He totally freaked out when he scratched and rubbed the next key and the black sticker went off. Turns out the whole black Macbook has this vinyl style stuff on it. Peel it off and you get Aluminum goodness! It seemed like hours to me when we removed this black stuff and there were lots of people around freaking out.

So the 150$ more ARE making a difference: an aluminum enclosure beneath a protective black layer. :eek: Totally worth 150 bucks if you ask me. It just looks like a redesigned powerbook actually. OMG, I'm so getting a black/aluminum one! How strange no one noted this yet. I mean, them peeling off the black stuff from the NY Store cube was definetely a sign. :rolleyes:
Just kidding. After all, it's MacRmumors (:OK now the end of this post is confusing me. Is the whole post a joke? Or if not could you see the key legends on the aluminum keys underneith the sticky black stuff? This is very serious if you aren't kidding.

Dark Horse
May 19, 2006, 09:09 AM
Where did you get your hard drive?


Ok the answers were in the other thread...

I may have missed something out here, but:

Get a 120Gb seagate (5400 rpm) drive - $177: details here (http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/discsales/personal/family/0,1085,676,00.html)

Get RAM for $72 a 1 gb stick: details here (http://www.omnitechnologies.biz/cgi-bin/catalog/cp-app.cgi?usr=&rnd=&rrc=N&affl=B&cip=&act=&aff=&pg=prod&ref=APLMBP1GB667O&cat=&catstr=)

Finally apparently you can use your existing hard drive in a SATA external enclosure as an external drive. details to come.

With thanks to MrCrowbar, nem3015 and Multimedia (I think that's all). I didn't find any of this just copying it from the other thread for ease.

[EDIT: Quoted the right person]

xli_ne
May 19, 2006, 09:14 AM
Ok the answers were in the other thread...

I may have missed something out here, but:


This is what I waned to know, not hard drive prices.

Does the MacBook Pro allow you to easily upgrade it's hard drive too? (Does it have a similar setup?)

Dark Horse
May 19, 2006, 09:23 AM
This is what I waned to know, not hard drive prices.

Sorry, quoted wrong person. No, you can't. hence the fuss over it with the MBs.

Dark Horse
May 19, 2006, 09:24 AM
OK now the end of this post is confusing me. Is the whole post a joke? Or if not could you see the key legends on the aluminum keys underneith the sticky black stuff? This is very serious if you aren't kidding.

I thought you were joking til I saw you'd cross posted. No dude - it's a joke.

dongmin
May 19, 2006, 09:46 AM
I sure hope Adobe get's it's crap together and starts optimizing Photoshop for Macs better in the CS3 release...It just seems to keep getting further and further behind, while video apps just keep getting better and better...

Adobe's approach is that people can just buy newer hardware if they want better performance. Speed is much more difficult to sell than a laundry list of new features, even if those features are for the most part pointless. (This would apply to Microsoft as well.)

For me, 99% of what I need Photoshop to do was in Photoshop 5x. I can't remember anything new in the recent versions that I've come to use on a daily basis. And the only reason I'll upgrade to CS3 is to get universal binaries. Adobe knows this is the case for most users. So, even if they already have universal versions of Photoshop working, they're not gonna release it. If they did, not that many people would have an incentive to upgrade to CS3. All that talk about these apps being difficult to upgrade may just be a smokescreen, for all we know."

dagger01
May 19, 2006, 09:50 AM
They give very similar results in several tests. The only difference between them, aside from hard drive speed, is that the MacBook has integrated graphics, while the iMac has a dedicated card.

The Speedmark and Compressor numbers are anything but very similar. They should be identical is my point; same hardware config down to the bus. And, thanks for reiterating what I already said about the hard drive and graphics. Duh!

dagger01
May 19, 2006, 09:56 AM
Are you kidding me? Those benchmarks convinced me once and for all just how unbelievably horrible the integrated graphics are. A 2.0 core duo edges out a 1.42 Ghz G4 (which itself only has a 32 MB card!) and loses to a 1.67 G4?? Absolutely disgusting. Look at what the core duo can do with a decent chip (imac and mbp)... the integrated graphics are totally hamstringing a fantastic processor.

Oh for crying out loud! It's a baseline consumer laptop. It's built for utility not gaming! How many people do you know that play high-end, graphic intensive games on a laptop?!?! I know ZERO, and have many, many friends that are intense gamers. Gaming is not the intended market for this product. Besides, all this whining and griping is going to be moot if the rumors of a gamer's edition MacBook turn out to be true.

There is nothing wrong with the MacBook. Very capable machine, with a competitive price in the target market.

joechimy
May 19, 2006, 10:29 AM
anyone know how World of Warcraft runs on the MacBook??? average FPS?

milo
May 19, 2006, 10:42 AM
Wow. Non-gamers really don't need to go pro. Or does the integrated noticeably affect the responsiveness of the GUI ?

Not at all. I think the GUI might even be a little snappier on my mini than on my G5.

Are you kidding me? Those benchmarks convinced me once and for all just how unbelievably horrible the integrated graphics are.

It just tells us what we already knew: it's a fairly weak gaming machine, but it smokes at everything else. If you don't plan on playing demanding 3d gaming, these are great machines, especially for the price.

i repeated this for Excel, Photoshop, and GarageBand. all were within a few seconds of each other.

operating the programs on both machines, i noticed very little difference in operating speed and snappiness.

up to five times faster than my G4? bull.

It's not bull, the five times number is for UNIVERSAL apps. Except for GB, all the rest are PPC only and take a big performance hit with rosetta. With universal apps it's a different story, apps like Logic absolutely get a boost that big on the intel macs.

anyone know how World of Warcraft runs on the MacBook??? average FPS?

Considering it runs on the mini, it should run slightly better on the MB.

Multimedia
May 19, 2006, 10:48 AM
Yep: From ViperLair.com's review (http://www.viperlair.com/reviews/storage/hdd/seagate/54003/): "A SATA version will be forthcoming, but the ETA is unknown at this point."
(added from silentpcreview.com (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article298-page1.html):) "A SATA version of the drive will be available 'later this year'."Seagate SATA 160GB 2.5" 9.5mm MacBook Compatible Thick Ships In JulyAccording to Seagate's specsheet (PDF), the Momentus 160 is no thicker than the 120 (http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_momentus5400.pdf). Am I missing something?You are correct that the 160 is only 9.5mm thick. So I'm getting very excited. 160GB inside a MacBook will be AWESOME. SATA version ships in JULY.

On phone with Seagate Corporate Communications now. Have confirmation from them that the SATA Version of the Momentus 160GB 9.5mm thick HD ships in JULY. So if you can hold off two months or so the Seagate Momentus 5400 160 SATA should be out by end of July at the latest.:)

Dark Horse
May 19, 2006, 11:15 AM
On phone with Seagate Corporate Communications now. Have confirmation from them that the SATA Version of the Momentus 160GB 9.5mm thick HD ships in JULY. So if you can hold off two months or so the Seagate Momentus 5400 160 SATA should be out by end of July at the latest.:)

That would be awesome. truly awesome. any sign of expected cost?

sam10685
May 19, 2006, 11:22 AM
i thought the hard drive had to be plugged into some wires or something like that.

faintember
May 19, 2006, 11:25 AM
i thought the hard drive had to be plugged into some wires or something like that.
I think the metal carriage around the HD allows for the HD to slide into fixed connectors for power and data.

Multimedia
May 19, 2006, 12:19 PM
That would be awesome. truly awesome. any sign of expected cost?I called him back to ask but he's in a meeting right now. I would imagine around $300 list and $240 Fry's introductory sale price. Around what Apple wants for a 120 without the 60 white or 80 black. :)

jne381
May 19, 2006, 12:21 PM
With the ease of replacing the Ram and Hard Drive in the new MacBook, does any one know what Apple's policy is with regards to the warranty, if non-Apple Ram or Hard Drive is used?

ejl10
May 19, 2006, 12:39 PM
Its nice to see that Apple is making it easier to perform some basic upgrades; maybe I'll get rid of my Thinkpad someday. Still, I don't understand why they'd want to put screws in the way of the hard disk and memory. People may strip the screw heads, the screwdriver may slip and damage the machine, and its a bit pedestrian to require any tools at all. I guess I'm just trying to say it could have been a bit more user friendly without much effort. Same with the iMacs.

Oh well, still a definite improvement.

gloss
May 19, 2006, 12:44 PM
Its nice to see that Apple is making it easier to perform some basic upgrades; maybe I'll get rid of my Thinkpad someday. Still, I don't understand why they'd want to put screws in the way of the hard disk and memory. People may strip the screw heads, the screwdriver may slip and damage the machine, and its a bit pedestrian to require any tools at all. I guess I'm just trying to say it could have been a bit more user friendly without much effort. Same with the iMacs.

Oh well, still a definite improvement.

An improvement to be sure. Honestly, the little L-bracket wasn't any trouble at all when I did my RAM. It seems to exist mostly to seperate the battery compartment from the actual hardware.

Not quite dummy-safe, but better than most notebooks I've dealt with.

milo
May 19, 2006, 12:51 PM
With the ease of replacing the Ram and Hard Drive in the new MacBook, does any one know what Apple's policy is with regards to the warranty, if non-Apple Ram or Hard Drive is used?

I don't think replacing ram has ever voided the warranty. And in general, doing upgrades only voids the warranty if the user causes damage during the replacement. Also, I think consumer protection laws don't allow for voiding the entire warranty by third party servicing the machine, including user servicing. Worst case, it just voids the warranty on the specific part that was replaced (so you'd just be voiding the HD warranty).

jayb2000
May 19, 2006, 01:04 PM
...On phone with Seagate Corporate Communications now. Have confirmation from them that the SATA Version of the Momentus 160GB 9.5mm thick HD ships in JULY. So if you can hold off two months or so the Seagate Momentus 5400 160 SATA should be out by end of July at the latest.:)

That should also mean the other's drop in price a bit, so a 120GB might be around $125. That would be nice.

nem3015
May 19, 2006, 01:47 PM
Where did you get your hard drive?

The best price I have seen so far is here:

http://www.fadfusion.com/selection.php?product_item_number=10060604527

nem3015
May 19, 2006, 02:02 PM
That should also mean the other's drop in price a bit, so a 120GB might be around $125. That would be nice.

Would be nice, but not necessarily tru.. the 160 when will come out will be more expensive I think. I a very new line the Momentus so I don't see the reason for Seagate to drop the prices, to me the new 160 will be on the top of the price scale.

On another issue, those disks are 5400rpm, while the new Fujitsu (160 and 200) they are 4200rpm.
The Momentus 7200rpm on their datasheet only go up to 100Gb so far.

sehix
May 19, 2006, 02:09 PM
thanks for the "advice". the problem with it, however, is that Apple marketed the new laptop as 4-5 times faster NOW --hat's right, even with non-Intel CPU-native apps.

No, they said that it would run *up to* x times faster.

Some things would be close to that much speedup (some things are actually faster), some not. Universal applications that are CPU-limited should be faster; PowerPC applications, which have to be run under Rosetta won't be faster on and intel Mac, and Apple never claimed that they would be.

Drive speed limited things certainly wouldn't be expected to sped up much, if at all, and application start up is strongly affected by hard drive speed.

This may call for a switch to decaf, by the way.

nem3015
May 19, 2006, 02:47 PM
Having seen all the confusion about SATA, PATA, ATA-6 etc... here is a bit of educational info:

ATA stands for Advanced Technology Attachment aka IDE and EIDE in some ambients. Their interface is the widely known 40 pines connector that has been around for ages.
Through the times there has been several version conventionally named ATA-1 to ATA-8 being:
ATA-4 --> ATA/33
ATA-5 --> ATA/66
ATA-6 --> ATA/100
ATA-7 --> ATA/133

When Serial ATA came out all those "old" ATAs has been renamed as Parallel ATA aka PATA therefore you may now see in someplaces PATA/33, PATA/66 and so forth...

SATA connectors are totally different both in size and shape from PATA

SATA already comes in different versions as SATA/150, SATA/300 (internal drives usually) and eSATA (external drives)

To end this issue for the record:
Some disks found online (ebay) are labeled ATA-6 which are not compatible with MacBook
MacBook uses SATA disks and their thickness have to be a maximum of 9.5 mm, therefore not "all" SATA disks for notebooks around on the market can be used, so when you buy one check very carefully the dimension specifications more than anything else.
Stock disks inside the MacBook are 5400rpm, but on the market you can find 7200rpm too (so far I seen only up to 100Gb, I guess the increase of speed have some limitation due the increase heating too).

Hope this help clarify all the confusion for some people that plan to upgrade their disk.

Fro more technical info go to Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Technology_Attachment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA

Have fun... :D

Mainyehc
May 19, 2006, 02:47 PM
thanks for the "advice". the problem with it, however, is that Apple marketed the new laptop as 4-5 times faster NOW --hat's right, even with non-Intel CPU-native apps.

or weren't you paying attention, flamer?

and even if you want to argue that point, the fact is--i have to weigh my current Powerbook against what's available NOW. not "sometime soon" IF i want to pay $$ and upgrade all my apps.

in other words, it's not that simple, hater.

I know that, and I'm not a hater... A flamer, maybe (just a bit... sorry for that then), but not a hater. It's just that you seemed a little too gullible, since you probably didn't read the fine print, as an informed consumer should always do (Hey, I know how Apple works, and marketing-wise they are no better than their competition, so the same rules apply to them: never trust a corporation, period).

So, there's the fine print:

Testing conducted by Apple in May 2006 using preproduction 2GHz MacBook units and shipping 1.42GHz PowerPC G4-based iBook G4 units. SPEC® is a registered trademark of the Standard Performance Evaluation Corporation (SPEC); see www.spec.org for more information. Benchmarks were compiled using the IBM compiler and a beta version of the Intel compiler for Mac OS.

I don't see real-world applications mentioned nowhere on those Apple-endorsed benchmarks, and I'm as sorry as you are for M$ and Adobe being the lazy software developers they are (if only they had switched to XCode earlier, duh! They actually had some 5 years to do so :rolleyes: ), and for Apple being the money hungry corporation it is... However, that doesn't mean they can't really claim their new hardware is really up to 5x faster. In fact, I think this claim may be more accurate than that "World's Fastest Personal Computer" claim on the PowerMac G5 from a few years ago. /rant

Multimedia
May 19, 2006, 04:50 PM
Would be nice, but not necessarily tru.. the 160 when will come out will be more expensive I think. I a very new line the Momentus so I don't see the reason for Seagate to drop the prices, to me the new 160 will be on the top of the price scale.

On another issue, those disks are 5400rpm, while the new Fujitsu (160 and 200) they are 4200rpm.
The Momentus 7200rpm on their datasheet only go up to 100Gb so far.But Seagate @5400 is claiming same power usage as 4200 with twice the performance so Momentus.3 are best for battery conservation and good performance compromise. The Fujitsu are out because they are 12mm thick and won't fit in MacBook.

nem3015
May 19, 2006, 06:21 PM
But Seagate @5400 is claiming same power usage as 4200 with twice the performance so Momentus.3 are best for battery conservation and good performance compromise. The Fujitsu are out because they are 12mm thick and won't fit in MacBook.

Well all that matter is how desperate people are to upgrade the MacBook... How many will wait until July to get the new disk? But definitely once more, Apple Store is too expensive when it comes to the upgrades.
Btw, going off topic a bit, I will buy it with the spanish keyboard too since I work a lot with european languages. Having all the accents and foreign characters on hand is really cool.:p

nem3015
May 19, 2006, 06:36 PM
The best price I have seen so far is here:

http://www.fadfusion.com/selection.php?product_item_number=10060604527

Just checked online and MacMall and ClubMac already have the $100 rebate and Free printer offer... so after rebate we are down to $1515 (the strange number is because on those places they already have an extra $5 drop from the retail price) for the MacBook 2.0 with 2Gb and 120 disk... of course plus taxes and various shipping costs.

This is getting better by the minute...

Wender
May 19, 2006, 06:36 PM
Would be nice, but not necessarily tru.. the 160 when will come out will be more expensive I think. I a very new line the Momentus so I don't see the reason for Seagate to drop the prices, to me the new 160 will be on the top of the price scale.

Around 300 USD for the Seagate Momentus 5400.3 160 GB SATA now available in Norway shipping May 29th...

sam10685
May 19, 2006, 06:37 PM
I think the metal carriage around the HD allows for the HD to slide into fixed connectors for power and data.

Apple is genius...

nem3015
May 19, 2006, 06:47 PM
Around 300 USD for the Seagate Momentus 5400.3 160 GB SATA now available in Norway shipping May 29th...

I thought was supposed to be released in July :eek:

Where did you see that?

Multimedia
May 19, 2006, 07:56 PM
Around 300 USD for the Seagate Momentus 5400.3 160 GB SATA now available in Norway shipping May 29th...Wha?!?! Please clarify with links. Seagate Corporate Communications just told me this morning it won't ship until July. What do you know that Seagate Corporate Communications doesn't know?

macbones
May 19, 2006, 08:47 PM
:rolleyes:

in general, Intel processors scream compared to the G4. You remember how all the windows guys were trying to convince you that their processor was faster than yours? Well, they were right ok? Macs running with Intel processors is the best thing since clichés.
.

Problem is, it was 3 years ago they were telling me that. . . It's kind of impractical to compare yesterday's technology with today's and imply that, "the windows guys were right". The G4 was dead in the water a year ago.

nem3015
May 19, 2006, 09:04 PM
Wha?!?! Please clarify with links. Seagate Corporate Communications just told me this morning it won't ship until July. What do you know that Seagate Corporate Communications doesn't know?

Well after all this is MacRumors, isn't it? :p :D :cool:

latergator116
May 19, 2006, 09:36 PM
It is about time apple put a user replacable hard drive in a laptop. I think apple intentionaly designed the previous ibooks to make it a pain in the ass to replace the hard drive.

Multimedia
May 20, 2006, 12:05 AM
It is about time apple put a user replacable hard drive in a laptop. I think apple intentionaly designed the previous ibooks to make it a pain in the ass to replace the hard drive.I gotta say that this feature makes the MacBook more attractive than the "Pro" models. While the 15" MBP model now seems like a dud, the 17" model still has some distinct advantages. But in the budget situation, until Merom ships, the MacBook seems like a great value for short term mobile power. :)

Waiting for July shipment of the Seagate Momentus 5400.3 9.5mm thick 160GB 2.5" drives for about $300 or $240 introductory at Fry's. I wish Apple would figure out how to make upgrading HDs in the "Pro" mobiles as easy as this.

MrCrowbar
May 20, 2006, 01:36 AM
Not sure where to post this, but this seems to be the right thread as reducing heat in the MBP requires "replacing" the thermal paste.


Although the disassembly pictures on Kodawarisan and co look like there's a reasonable amount of thermal paste on the chips, these pictures make me worry:
http://attach.mobile01.com/attach/200605/mobile01-514da8fc7fc5ce50359d0bd754a7c73c.jpg
http://attach.mobile01.com/attach/200605/mobile01-e89d3804df75a137bd9adbe040817a57.jpg

This is on page 94 of the MacBook (13-inch) Take Apart.
In fact, Apple even says as a preface to that picture:
"Although the amount shown appears to be plenty of grease, this is the correct amount that has been tested and verified on the production line."
(http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=295925)

Can anybody owning (and using) a Macbook testify on the heat of the thing?

EDIT: Should I worry about the HDD on my iMac beeing at 54°C to 55°C when doing web surfing only? Room temperature is 27,5°C right now. I've read HDDs should not get to 55°C too often, but it's always that hot in my iMac... at least S.M.A.R.T. tells me it's that hot.

retroz311
May 20, 2006, 03:54 AM
Regarding the video benchmarks, I think that the $200 extra for the BlackBook should also get you a model with a dedicated GPU. There needs to be a laptop under 15" that has a GPU.
Remember the graphite special edition iBooks, better than all the colour ones? This could be done in the same way.


They can't and won't do that until the MBP come out with quad core and even then it's sketchy if they will (offer GPU), otherwise, and I know this is hard to swallow, the MBP really cost $1000 more for the GPU, don't tell me the extra $1000 is for the larger LCD, backlit keypads either.:rolleyes:

Then again, the benchmarks are very similar to the G4 1.67 which a friend of mine runs Final Cut and Motion on, so chances are (and I bet it's fine) a 2 GB DDR 7200 pimped Macbook would run Final Cut pretty good.

Will it run motion? Not sure, then again, look at the UT2004 marks for G4, so, perhaps it will - - he runs motion and final cut all the time and I assume the Macbook is faster. The MBP is just too much money for too little computing power. Then off course there is the do it yourselfers (osx86).

Lastly, if you must have gaming and want to be sure about motion, than a iMAC would be the way to go, but I think when the memron comes out, the MACBOOK should offer dedicated graphics as they (APPLE) will stilll have to compete with other laptops out there.

Not sure about all this iLIFE rossetta c rap though- last I read, I thought ilife was universal.

Still waiting on a final cut, motion, MACBOOK thread. Bottom line, APPLE MACBOOKS IMHO will run these apps, less gaming, in Universal, they just aren't announcing it quite yet as the REAL power users aren't buying the MBP yet anyway. Most I know are buying (if they bought a laptop APPLE recently) are buying up G4's, now the MACBOOK, well, for 1099 not too shabby, but for 1499, it should have 7200, 1 GB and dedicated GPU, not just a paint job and a few more megs of HD space.

:p

MrCrowbar
May 20, 2006, 04:08 AM
I'd love to have "No RAM" and "no hard drive" as a BTO option. You can get this stuff so cheap elsewhere... That would make a Macbook for 799 $ then :D

But again, that would go against the Apple "ease of use". And I doubt Apple would make real profit.

Mersen
May 20, 2006, 07:29 AM
I am thinking of upgrading the RAM on my new Macbook (black btw). Is there any truth to the concept of having to "pair" the RAM in the 2 slots? I can not really afford to buy 2 GBs so I was planning on just buying one for now... giving me 1.25gbs but is there going to be a problem with having a 1GB in one slot and a 256MB in the other?

MrCrowbar
May 20, 2006, 08:32 AM
I am thinking of upgrading the RAM on my new Macbook (black btw). Is there any truth to the concept of having to "pair" the RAM in the 2 slots? I can not really afford to buy 2 GBs so I was planning on just buying one for now... giving me 1.25gbs but is there going to be a problem with having a 1GB in one slot and a 256MB in the other?

No problem at all. There s indeed truth in the concept of paired RAM, but the difference is not noticable or really measurable. Apple just puts twi 256 DIMMS in there because it's cheaper than one 512 DIMM.

gerlitzappel
May 20, 2006, 08:50 AM
Replacing hard drive was never difficult... but this is a cakewalk!

Did you ever replace a harddrive in a clamshell ibook? In my opinion, that was difficult. I think I removed 47 screws.

Mikael
May 20, 2006, 09:16 AM
Not sure where to post this, but this seems to be the right thread as reducing heat in the MBP requires "replacing" the thermal paste.

Although the disassembly pictures on Kodawarisan and co look like there's a reasonable amount of thermal paste on the chips, these pictures make me worry:

*Pics with obscene amount of grease*

This is on page 94 of the MacBook (13-inch) Take Apart.
In fact, Apple even says as a preface to that picture:
"Although the amount shown appears to be plenty of grease, this is the correct amount that has been tested and verified on the production line."
Pics and quotes like that make it seem like an absolute miracle that this company even managed to design a working notebook. Guess it was one of Steve's secretaries that threw together that service manual... :rolleyes:

EDIT: Ohh, and easy to replace HDD and RAM is a good thing. Should have been done long ago. Things like this probably make PC folks more interested in the machines, since the thought of taking the computer apart just to replace the HDD would seem ludicrous to most (not that regular Mac users like it either...). My ASUS notebook has one screw to reach the HDD compartment and six screws to change the RAM (atleast one of the slots). Really shouldn't be harder than that.

unkabin
May 20, 2006, 12:12 PM
The video benchmarks may look a little weak, but I just loaded Quake IV on my black macbook, and it seems to run okay. Haven't had a chance to plunge in, yet, for more than a few minutes, but it looks promising. Most settings medium to low range, but it appears pretty smooth and very playable. 1 gig ram

netdog
May 20, 2006, 01:16 PM
Don't know if anybody has posted Ars Techinica's MacBook Review (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/macbook.ars) yet, but the MBP owners probably aren't going to be too thrilled about the benchmarks which start here (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/macbook.ars/5).

Spartacus
May 20, 2006, 01:39 PM
Don't know if anybody has posted Ars Techinica's MacBook Review (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/macbook.ars) yet, but the MBP owners probably aren't going to be too thrilled about the benchmarks which start here (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/macbook.ars/5).

I think your post is what has convinced me to buy a Macbook over a Pro. I figure if a Merom Macbook Pro comes out later in the summer with a price I'm willing to spend, I'll Craiglist my Macbook and do a swap. Hopefully there will be a revision of the Macbook Pro before a revision of the Macbook to give me a sense of what the pricing will be on the Merom MBP before my current Macbook devalues after revision 2. If you've got an Intel iMac (or any other machine) for gaming and pro stuff, the Macbook is the computer for you.

Here I come Intel Integrated Graphics!!

Multimedia
May 20, 2006, 04:36 PM
Don't know if anybody has posted Ars Techinica's MacBook Review (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/macbook.ars) yet, but the MBP owners probably aren't going to be too thrilled about the benchmarks which start here (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/macbook.ars/5).
I think your post is what has convinced me to buy a Macbook over a Pro. I figure if a Merom Macbook Pro comes out later in the summer with a price I'm willing to spend, I'll Craiglist my Macbook and do a swap. Hopefully there will be a revision of the Macbook Pro before a revision of the Macbook to give me a sense of what the pricing will be on the Merom MBP before my current Macbook devalues after revision 2. If you've got an Intel iMac (or any other machine) for gaming and pro stuff, the Macbook is the computer for you.

Here I come Intel Integrated Graphics!!You're Killing Me NetDog & Spartacus. This report is mind boggling. :eek: All those naysayers on Tuesday and Wednesday have got to be pissing in their pants over this. And what about all those MacBook Pro buyers to date?

This MacBook is setting a new standard for mid priced mobiles that even Apple is going to have a hard time topping. You gotta believe Apple is just going to have to SIT ON THIS MODEL for a while while trying to separate the MacBook Pro from it with faster Merom and Graphics processors and user upgradable HD compartments - IE a new MacBook Pro redesign.

I think there is little doubt this MacBook is breaking records and is a HUGE HIT for Apple - a Home Run no doubt. :eek: I'm totally born again about it just because I will be able to get a Seagate 160GB Momentus 5400.3 inside this summer. Now with this report, I can sleep at night knowing it also has faster graphics OVERALL. When I pull the trigger for real is anybody's guess. I have no idea. Use my Quad 90% of the time. But I sure am recommending the hell out of it to those who need more power now on a budget. :p :D

Did a pixel comparison between 17" MBP + 17" Apple Monitor vs. MacBook + 24" Dell 1920x1200 WS. Turns out the MacBook + Dell 24" WS setup would give you over a quarter million more pixels of desktop space for less than the price of the 17" MacBook Pro alone. Go figure. Facts tell me the MacBook is way underpriced or the MacBook Pros are way over priced.

netdog
May 20, 2006, 05:09 PM
All these reviews are nice, but the proof is in the pudding, and having used a MacBook since Tuesday, all I have to say is that I am thoroughly pleased, every expectation I had when I purchased it has been exceeded. (Granted, I loaded it with 2GB, a must if you plan to run Parallels on top of the usual OS X apps).

The one thing this pup needs, IMO, is a faster drive. 5400 seems to be the bottleneck, and the difference that separates it from my Intel iMac 2.0 in everyday use performance much more than any difference in graphics performance between the two.

If the MacBook isn't a hit, it's a crime. It's svelte, fast and nearly silent. Incredible piece of kit.

netdog
May 20, 2006, 05:17 PM
I agree, Multi, that the MBP will have some sort of rethink and redesign next. After all, it is essentially a somewhat rushed-to-market Intel-inside PowerBook, not that such is anything to sneeze at. To my eye, the aluminum-cased MBP form is showing its age, but I know there are many who disagree with me and love not only the function, but also the form.

I know there are some MBP owners who want or need some of the features (x1600 graphics or backlit keyboard or screen size), but I suspect that there are also a lot of people wishing that they had known that such a powerful little MacBook was on its way at such a reduced price. This isn't your grandmother's iBook.

douziel
May 20, 2006, 05:56 PM
I must sound like a newbie; I have a few questions about the MacBook:

1) Once the hard drive is replaced, what do I do to install OS X? Just boot from the install disk and install the OS from there?

2) Will replacing the hard drive void my warranty, even if they make it so easy to do?

3) What specific type of hard drive do I need to buy, if I get one? On the MacBook specs page it just says Serial-ATA - I know almost nothing about hard drives. This is probably what I need, right? (http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Western%20Digital/WD1200BEVS/)

Multimedia
May 20, 2006, 08:20 PM
I must sound like a newbie; I have a few questions about the MacBook:

1) Once the hard drive is replaced, what do I do to install OS X? Just boot from the install disk and install the OS from there?

2) Will replacing the hard drive void my warranty, even if they make it so easy to do?

3) What specific type of hard drive do I need to buy, if I get one? On the MacBook specs page it just says Serial-ATA - I know almost nothing about hard drives. This 120GB 2.5" Western Digital Scorpio 5400RPM SATA Notebook Drive with 8MB Cache - New, 3 Year Warranty (http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Western%20Digital/WD1200BEVS/) for $159.99 at Other World Computing is what I need, right?1) Yes. Buy a SATA external FW case for your 60, put that in there and after the install you will be prompted to hook up that drive and all your settings, added files, mail etc will be automatically transfered to your new bigger and/or faster drive so you can resume where you left off before the switch.
2) No.
3) Yes that will work. But if you can wait til July, you can get a Seagate 160GB Momentus 5400.3 SATA drive for around $300. Must be only 9.5mm thick. SATA is the only type of drive that will fit.

douziel
May 20, 2006, 09:06 PM
1) Yes. Buy a SATA external FW case for your 60, put that in there and after the install you will be prompted to hook up that drive and all your settings, added files, mail etc will be automatically transfered to your new bigger and/or faster drive so you can resume where you left off before the switch.
2) No.
3) Yes that will work. But if you can wait til July, you can get a Seagate 160GB Momentus 5400.3 SATA drive for around $300. Must be only 9.5mm thick. SATA is the only type of drive that will fit.

(Concerning number 1) Let's say I'm just upgrading entirely new from an iBook G4. When I get the Macbook, should I replace the hard drive immediately (before turning it on for the first time)? If so, do I just take the metal housing off (unscrew it, I guess) and slide the new one in?

faintember
May 20, 2006, 09:21 PM
(Concerning number 1) Let's say I'm just upgrading entirely new from an iBook G4. When I get the Macbook, should I replace the hard drive immediately (before turning it on for the first time)? If so, do I just take the metal housing off (unscrew it, I guess) and slide the new one in? Yes. After that, power the laptop up, insert Tiger disk and begin to install the OS.

Though is better performance more of an issue or larger HD space. You can move to a 7200rpm HD and get much better performance if you write/read from your HD often along with expanding your space to a 100GB total. It is a bit more ($189.99), but may be worth it in the long run if you have no need for more than 100GB.

Multimedia
May 20, 2006, 09:40 PM
(Concerning number 1) Let's say I'm just upgrading entirely new from an iBook G4. When I get the Macbook, should I replace the hard drive immediately (before turning it on for the first time)? If so, do I just take the metal housing off (unscrew it, I guess) and slide the new one in?Startup MacBook and it will prompt you to start iBook with "T" key held down to put it in target mode then connect it to MacBook with 6 pin to 6 pin FireWire cable and it will transfer your setup and files to the MacBook. Then sell your iBook G4 for $800. :p

I guess I misunderstood what you were asking. You buying that 120 WD Drive right away? Then follow faintember's instructions. Still need to hook up iBook at first startup after reinstall on new HD.

mavherzog
May 21, 2006, 12:09 AM
Replacing hard drive was never difficult... but this is a cakewalk!
Difficult? No.
Pain in the neck? YES!

(I just upgraded the hdd in my 12" iBook and having to remove near 50 screws is a BIT ridiculous)

mavherzog
May 21, 2006, 12:19 AM
For whatever reason, those MacBooks got MUCH better 3D performance out of UT 2004 than the Core Duo Mac Mini I tested.
Did you have the universal binary patch installed??

douziel
May 21, 2006, 08:01 AM
Though is better performance more of an issue or larger HD space. You can move to a 7200rpm HD and get much better performance if you write/read from your HD often along with expanding your space to a 100GB total. It is a bit more ($189.99), but may be worth it in the long run if you have no need for more than 100GB.
The most intensive thing I'm planning on doing is installing XP and a few games; Sims 2, Battle for Middle Earth...will the extra rpm affect game performance enough to spend $20 extra and lose 20GB? Or will it affect things like iPhoto performance more?

Multimedia
May 21, 2006, 08:39 AM
The most intensive thing I'm planning on doing is installing XP and a few games; Sims 2, Battle for Middle Earth...will the extra rpm affect game performance enough to spend $20 extra and lose 20GB? Or will it affect things like iPhoto performance more?If you go with a Seagate Momentus 5400.3 120GB (or 160GB in July) drive the performance may be better than other brands because of their new perpendicular technology.

7200 RPM drives will wear your battery down faster. I advise against the 7200 for this reason. If battery life is not important to you, then 7200 is fine. But you can only go to 100GB so far - from what I've read here. I am not convinced you'll see that much performance improvement with 7200 for most applications.

I would rather have a bigger hard drive inside. It's the 160GB Seagate Momentus 5400.3 SATA for me after it ships in July.

Multimedia
May 21, 2006, 08:46 AM
For whatever reason, those MacBooks got MUCH better 3D performance out of UT 2004 than the Core Duo Mac Mini I tested.Did you have the universal binary patch installed??Please explain what the Universal Binary Patch is and where we get it to install it and why Mavherzog. Thank you in advance for your help.

codo
May 21, 2006, 08:59 AM
7200 RPM drives will wear your battery down faster. I advise against the 7200 for this reason. If battery life is not important to you, then 7200 is fine. But you can only go to 100GB so far - from what I've read here. I am not convinced you'll see that much performance improvement with 7200 for most applications.

I have to disagree whole heartedly on that point, I'm afraid.

Certainly on Windows, the process of video editing with large files is certainly much quicker with a 7200 drive than a 5400 drive. Now unless OS X has some sort of magic way of pulling bits of a hard drive faster irrespective of drive speed - this isn’t going to change.

So, when playing large games like The Sims 2 and loading large texture maps etc from the large files on the hard drive - this will certainly affect loading times if it’s important to you. There is a noticeable difference.

However I do agree you have to weigh up what’s more important to you - Hard drive speed or battery life. For me, I'd rather compromise battery life for the speed.

MrCrowbar
May 21, 2006, 11:37 AM
However I do agree you have to weigh up what’s more important to you - Hard drive speed or battery life. For me, I'd rather compromise battery life for the speed.

Just don't buy 4200 rpm drives. They are sooo yesterday. :p
Seriously, today's 5400 rpm drove use just as much power as 4200 rpm so there's no real reason to pick the slow ones.

ksjcorpus
May 21, 2006, 12:27 PM
where's the best place to buy 2g of ram? thanks guys, first post.

Buschmaster
May 21, 2006, 12:28 PM
If I bumped my MacBook to 1.5 GB of ram do you guys think this thing could handle a few different games? Sim City 4? The Sims 2? Stuff like that?

codo
May 21, 2006, 12:33 PM
If I bumped my MacBook to 1.5 GB of ram do you guys think this thing could handle a few different games? Sim City 4? The Sims 2? Stuff like that?

http://thesims2.ea.com/help/detail.php?help_id=21

Basically, the more RAM the better with Integrated Graphics...

nick2u
May 21, 2006, 12:54 PM
If you go with a Seagate Momentus 5400.3 120GB (or 160GB in July) drive the performance may be better than other brands because of their new perpendicular technology.

7200 RPM drives will wear your battery down faster. I advise against the 7200 for this reason. If battery life is not important to you, then 7200 is fine. But you can only go to 100GB so far - from what I've read here. I am not convinced you'll see that much performance improvement with 7200 for most applications.

I would rather have a bigger hard drive inside. It's the 160GB Seagate Momentus 5400.3 SATA for me after it ships in July.

Hi there! I fail to agree that a faster drive consumes more battery power. Even if it does it will only be to a negligible extent. In fact it might even give you additional battery life! (2 minutes according to this: http://www.mobilityguru.com/2003/10/31/fast_and_furious/page4.html) By saying that "7200 RPM drives will wear your battery down faster", you fail to consider several facts :) :

1) A faster drive spins faster (naturally!) hence it accesses data quicker and has to spin faster less frequently than a slower drive that spins slower and longer to access data. Hence the net total power consumed is approximately identical.

2) Hitachi 7200rpm hard drives uses a femtoslider, which is smaller and lighter than a 5400rpm/4200rpm picoslider. Hence the drive heads consume less power to move and this results in power savings.

3) Also, Hitachi uses an effective power-saving mechanism called A.B.L.E to put their 7200rpm drives in sleep states to save power (similar to Intel's Speedstep technology)

Do refer to this detailed article/benchmarkings for further insight: http://www.mobilityguru.com/2003/10/31/fast_and_furious/page4.html

codo
May 21, 2006, 01:56 PM
Interesting points nick2u - Welcomed news for me anyway, hard drive speed to me is just as important as RAM - After all, that’s where my all my non-volatile data is, I want to be able to access it as fast as possible, right?

faintember
May 21, 2006, 02:46 PM
The most intensive thing I'm planning on doing is installing XP and a few games; Sims 2, Battle for Middle Earth...will the extra rpm affect game performance enough to spend $20 extra and lose 20GB? Or will it affect things like iPhoto performance more? You will notice a nice addition in speed with a 7200rpm drive.
Also a 7200rpm drive uses almost the same battery life. Various links to these tests are all over these forums, or just google it. Once again the difference in battery life is negligible.

The question for you is, is space or speed more important? To me speed is, and any needed space is easily done via an external HD. My 100GB HD on my TiPB still has 45GB free, and that is after 3 years of accumulated works, and quite a few audio files in .aiff format. Once every three months i delete duplicate files or move them to my external drive or to one of my other macs. The 7200rpm will help you load applications faster, more RAM will help you run more applications at the same time, and helps with application performance.

It al depends on your needs.
where's the best place to buy 2g of ram? thanks guys, first post.
Check out this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=201844) for RAM buying info

13rian
May 21, 2006, 03:57 PM
Has anyone else noticed that the new mac book has a trackpad that's GIGANTIC?

Willis
May 21, 2006, 04:13 PM
did anyone notice that the new Mac commercials featuring the PC and the hip kid not show the white macbook instead of the imac and the end of the commercial. just saw it now during CSI.

That's because the Mac ads came out like 2 weeks before the Macboooks?

=P

nem3015
May 21, 2006, 04:13 PM
You're Killing Me NetDog & Spartacus. This report is mind boggling. :eek: All those naysayers on Tuesday and Wednesday have got to be pissing in their pants over this. And what about all those MacBook Pro buyers to date?

This MacBook is setting a new standard for mid priced mobiles that even Apple is going to have a hard time topping. You gotta believe Apple is just going to have to SIT ON THIS MODEL for a while while trying to separate the MacBook Pro from it with faster Merom and Graphics processors and user upgradable HD compartments - IE a new MacBook Pro redesign.

I think there is little doubt this MacBook is breaking records and is a HUGE HIT for Apple - a Home Run no doubt. :eek: I'm totally born again about it just because I will be able to get a Seagate 160GB Momentus 5400.3 inside this summer. Now with this report, I can sleep at night knowing it also has faster graphics OVERALL. When I pull the trigger for real is anybody's guess. I have no idea. Use my Quad 90% of the time. But I sure am recommending the hell out of it to those who need more power now on a budget. :p :D

Did a pixel comparison between 17" MBP + 17" Apple Monitor vs. MacBook + 24" Dell 1920x1200 WS. Turns out the MacBook + Dell 24" WS setup would give you over a quarter million more pixels of desktop space for less than the price of the 17" MacBook Pro alone. Go figure. Facts tell me the MacBook is way underpriced or the MacBook Pros are way over priced.

MBP are way overpriced in my opinion

Wender
May 21, 2006, 04:15 PM
Wha?!?! Please clarify with links. Seagate Corporate Communications just told me this morning it won't ship until July. What do you know that Seagate Corporate Communications doesn't know?

http://www.digihome.no/PartDetail.aspx?q=p:848715;c:36208;r:pg

In Norwegian. ETA 31.5. but what do I know, they may adjust that date again and again...

Also a Hitachi Travelstar 160GB on the way...

nem3015
May 21, 2006, 04:26 PM
http://www.digihome.no/PartDetail.aspx?q=p:848715;c:36208;r:pg

In Norwegian. ETA 31.5. but what do I know, they may adjust that date again and again...

Also a Hitachi Travelstar 160GB on the way...

As I thought... this disk is ATA/100 is not SATA so will not work on the MB. Sorry... still have to wait until July :)

bloodycape
May 21, 2006, 04:44 PM
Don't know if anybody has posted Ars Techinica's MacBook Review (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/macbook.ars) yet, but the MBP owners probably aren't going to be too thrilled about the benchmarks which start here (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/macbook.ars/5).
Some very good news here. This review/test made my choice even easier. I think I will be go MB over a refreshed MBP and use the saving for a bigger hd.

ncook06
May 21, 2006, 05:10 PM
That's because the Mac ads came out like 2 weeks before the Macboooks?

=P

I think he's saying that now they do.

nem3015
May 21, 2006, 06:38 PM
TigerDirect, a traditional parts and component for PC online retailer is selling a 160Gb disk for $29.99 (after rebates)

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2145270&SRCCODE=WEBGOOHD&CMP=KNC-GOOGL

Before everybody jumps on me, I suggest that this can be a very cheap way to have and extra disk "at home" to unclutter your internal disk. I know is 3.5" but is a 7200rpm, put it in a cheap case (either Firewire and/or USB) and you have a very unexpensive "not meant to be carrying around" disk to backup your files from the MB, not to mention some huge mp3 library, pictures or whatever you like better. Just another cheap option for the mac accessories addicts :D

Note: also works as upgrade for older macs since is ATA/100

MrCrowbar
May 21, 2006, 07:26 PM
I'd like to have a big and power efficient hard drive. The 7200 rpm Seagates (Momentus) eat up quite some power. Hitachi however has some cool stuff that runs at 7200 rpm and has similar power requirements than the 5400 rom drives. I need help in my decision. 120 GB would be fine.

nem3015
May 22, 2006, 12:33 AM
I'd like to have a big and power efficient hard drive. The 7200 rpm Seagates (Momentus) eat up quite some power. Hitachi however has some cool stuff that runs at 7200 rpm and has similar power requirements than the 5400 rom drives. I need help in my decision. 120 GB would be fine.

Maybe this article can help you a little bit:

http://www.mobilityguru.com/2004/12/13/nine_notebook_hard_drives_make_their_debuts/index.html

or confuse you more :D

nem3015
May 22, 2006, 12:35 AM
Maybe this article can help you a little bit:

http://www.mobilityguru.com/2004/12/13/nine_notebook_hard_drives_make_their_debuts/index.html

or confuse you more :D

I just noticed the article is from Dec. 2004 so is probably outaded, sorry about that.

kingtj
May 22, 2006, 08:47 AM
It must depend a lot on what your intentions are for your computer. I bought the core duo 2.0Ghz Macbook Pro myself, and after seeing the Macbook and its specs - I'm *so* glad I got the "Pro" and didn't wait around for this thing.

All of these "Macbook Pro is way overpriced!" comments seem to ignore the fact that it was priced quite competitively with something having a practically identical configuration (minus the iSight camera you get on a Macbook Pro) from Dell and others.

Having an ATI x1600 video with 256MB of video RAM built-in is a HUGE factor in my purchase! If you look at, say, the latest issue of Computer Shopper magazine where they compare "20 new, popular notebooks" - you'll see that the Macbook Pro's video is superior to just about everything else in their list.

Even in the world of desktop Windows PCs, I'd *never* be satisfied with a system that only offered one of Intel's integrated video options. The first thing most Windows users do with such a motherboard is buy a new AGP or PCI Express video card from ATI or nVidia and install it, bypassing the integrated video.

I *do* want to be able to play games on my notebook. It's not realistic for me to say "Oh, I can live without a fast video card and just use this machine for business-related stuff." Yes, I do use it for work practically every day (web site design and updates, etc.) - but I could do that on a $300 used Windows laptop too. The whole point of this purchase was owning a notebook with impressive specs all the way around, that can handle whatever I might throw at it. I do some video editing here and there (especially those videos taken over the holidays), some gaming here and there, a little bit of photo editing/retouching, a little generic work in MS Office, and who knows what else? No point in spending $1000+ on a Macbook that can't do some things any better than a 3 year old, cheapie Windows laptop (3D gaming, etc.).


Some very good news here. This review/test made my choice even easier. I think I will be go MB over a refreshed MBP and use the saving for a bigger hd.

Multimedia
May 22, 2006, 12:00 PM
Yes but Benchmarks in the ARS Technica Review (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/macbook.ars/5) indicates MacBook can do almost all a MacBook pro can do right now - albiet with a smaller screen, but one that can span to a 1920 x 1200 monitor. I know these numbers have got to be difficult to swallow for early adopters of MacBook Pro. And I understand why you are glad you bought early anyway. I'm glad you're happy with it.It must depend a lot on what your intentions are for your computer. I bought the core duo 2.0Ghz Macbook Pro myself, and after seeing the Macbook and its specs - I'm *so* glad I got the "Pro" and didn't wait around for this thing.

All of these "Macbook Pro is way overpriced!" comments seem to ignore the fact that it was priced quite competitively with something having a practically identical configuration (minus the iSight camera you get on a Macbook Pro) from Dell and others.

Having an ATI x1600 video with 256MB of video RAM built-in is a HUGE factor in my purchase! If you look at, say, the latest issue of Computer Shopper magazine where they compare "20 new, popular notebooks" - you'll see that the Macbook Pro's video is superior to just about everything else in their list.

Even in the world of desktop Windows PCs, I'd *never* be satisfied with a system that only offered one of Intel's integrated video options. The first thing most Windows users do with such a motherboard is buy a new AGP or PCI Express video card from ATI or nVidia and install it, bypassing the integrated video.

I *do* want to be able to play games on my notebook. It's not realistic for me to say "Oh, I can live without a fast video card and just use this machine for business-related stuff." Yes, I do use it for work practically every day (web site design and updates, etc.) - but I could do that on a $300 used Windows laptop too. The whole point of this purchase was owning a notebook with impressive specs all the way around, that can handle whatever I might throw at it. I do some video editing here and there (especially those videos taken over the holidays), some gaming here and there, a little bit of photo editing/retouching, a little generic work in MS Office, and who knows what else? No point in spending $1000+ on a Macbook that can't do some things any better than a 3 year old, cheapie Windows laptop (3D gaming, etc.).

bloodycape
May 22, 2006, 01:40 PM
Having an ATI x1600 video with 256MB of video RAM built-in is a HUGE factor in my purchase! If you look at, say, the latest issue of Computer Shopper magazine where they compare "20 new, popular notebooks" - you'll see that the Macbook Pro's video is superior to just about everything else in their list.

You have to remeber one thing about the graphic card, Apple supposidly crippled the x1600 so an x1600 used in another company should be faster because it is running at normal or even at a faster rate. Additionally at the time the MBP(at least when the 17) came out there was the X1800 on market apple could have gone for. But I am in no way knocking what apple put in the MBP just wondering why they underclocked it.

octoberdeath
May 22, 2006, 02:32 PM
i just got my brother to order one of these. he has been a journalist for the past 7 years and has never owned his own computer. now seeing that video of the guy removing the RAM and harddrive i feel even more confident in his purchase (note: i checked toshiba and we actually saved money when comparing their offering of the Core Duo to Apple's). now he can upgrade the RAM and harddrive with no problem! he got the 80Gb drive and 512Mb of RAM... so i figure i can help him upgrade it for his birthday and Christmas.

Multimedia
May 22, 2006, 04:16 PM
i just got my brother to order one of these. he has been a journalist for the past 7 years and has never owned his own computer. now seeing that video of the guy removing the RAM and harddrive i feel even more confident in his purchase (note: i checked toshiba and we actually saved money when comparing their offering of the Core Duo to Apple's). now he can upgrade the RAM and harddrive with no problem! he got the 80Gb drive and 512Mb of RAM... so i figure i can help him upgrade it for his birthday and Christmas.Here's that LINK to the Video of Changing Hard Drive and RAM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c6ckjy-gdY).

faintember
May 22, 2006, 04:19 PM
Would you please provide us the LINK to the Video of Changing Hard Drive and RAM?Thanks in advance for your help.Try the first post on the first page of this thread!

In other news...i just purchased 2x1GB sticks of RAM from DMS (Econoram) and the Hitachi Travelstar 7200rpm 100GB HD from OWC. I will post back on performance increases once they come in and are installed. Too bad the HD wont be here until Friday (they were out of stock).

nagromme
May 22, 2006, 08:44 PM
Did you have the universal binary patch installed??
Yes, I did. But maybe somehow it opened via Rosetta anyway? I didn't check Get Info.

Please explain what the Universal Binary Patch is and where we get it to install it and why Mavherzog. Thank you in advance for your help.

It's on MacGameFiles.com, and Universal means an app will run at full native speed on BOTH PowerPC and Intel processors.

nem3015
May 23, 2006, 01:11 AM
It must depend a lot on what your intentions are for your computer. I bought the core duo 2.0Ghz Macbook Pro myself, and after seeing the Macbook and its specs - I'm *so* glad I got the "Pro" and didn't wait around for this thing.

All of these "Macbook Pro is way overpriced!" comments seem to ignore the fact that it was priced quite competitively with something having a practically identical configuration (minus the iSight camera you get on a Macbook Pro) from Dell and others.

Having an ATI x1600 video with 256MB of video RAM built-in is a HUGE factor in my purchase! If you look at, say, the latest issue of Computer Shopper magazine where they compare "20 new, popular notebooks" - you'll see that the Macbook Pro's video is superior to just about everything else in their list.

Even in the world of desktop Windows PCs, I'd *never* be satisfied with a system that only offered one of Intel's integrated video options. The first thing most Windows users do with such a motherboard is buy a new AGP or PCI Express video card from ATI or nVidia and install it, bypassing the integrated video.

I *do* want to be able to play games on my notebook. It's not realistic for me to say "Oh, I can live without a fast video card and just use this machine for business-related stuff." Yes, I do use it for work practically every day (web site design and updates, etc.) - but I could do that on a $300 used Windows laptop too. The whole point of this purchase was owning a notebook with impressive specs all the way around, that can handle whatever I might throw at it. I do some video editing here and there (especially those videos taken over the holidays), some gaming here and there, a little bit of photo editing/retouching, a little generic work in MS Office, and who knows what else? No point in spending $1000+ on a Macbook that can't do some things any better than a 3 year old, cheapie Windows laptop (3D gaming, etc.).

I think that comparing MB 2.0 (white) with MBP lower end having same speed, superdrive and same ports, $700 difference don't justify a bit more of real estate screen, the graphic card and 20Gb more hard disk. Just my opinion. I'm glad you are happy with your MBP, but since for what I do the graphic is enough I prefer spend that extra money in memory and hard disk (actually not even "all" that money since the upgrade with the 2 gb & 160Gb will cost aprox. $450) :)

CanadaRAM
May 23, 2006, 01:23 AM
My 12" PBook 867 MHz/640Mb only takes 6 seconds to open MS Word 2004 !!! :D Any explanation for that?
Ya -- opening an app is a function of the speed of the hard drive and how large the app is (plus what and how the code loads at launch - like how many plugins, language support files, fonts, dictionaries etc.)

Its a really useless way to compare performance because it has little to do with CPU, Video or RAM.

MrCrowbar
May 23, 2006, 03:18 PM
My Macbook has processor whining after the OSX update :(

miyamoto
May 23, 2006, 05:06 PM
Everyone at this point is probably tired of treading over the same topic of the integrated graphics of the macbook but do have one point to bring up. Just received my 2.0ghz macbook and upgraded the ram to 2gb and was hoping that the graphics at a minimum would play a dvd at a clean resolution or photos in clarity. Unfortunately both appear grainy and the pixels are pretty glaring. I realize this isnt a performance system and wasnt purchased for that reason but an entry level system should be able to play something as a dvd at a decent resolution or view pictures as such. I have it set to full screen resolution but is there something i may be missing? (aside from comments that the integrated graphics are horrendous).

Willis
May 23, 2006, 05:15 PM
http://shopping.zdnet.co.uk/0,39033137,24628867,00.htm

would this ram be suitable in a Macbook? if so, i could get it for about £80

Edit: hmm, i dont think it is. dang

EDIT.. 2: right, just had another look on Crucials' UK site and got these.

1GB (2x512MB) http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/MPartspecs.Asp?mtbpoid=35537931A5CA7304&WSMD=MacBook+2%2E0GHz+Intel+Core+Duo+%2813%2Dinch+White%29&WSPN=CT541620

2GB (2x1GB) http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/MPartspecs.Asp?mtbpoid=6C41F532A5CA7304&WSMD=MacBook+2%2E0GHz+Intel+Core+Duo+%2813%2Dinch+White%29&WSPN=CT541623

Reason i mention this is because Apple UK charge £70.01 for 1GB and £350.01 for 2GB.

Off that website, the 1GB costs more than Apple, and 2GB costs less. :eek:

nospleen
May 23, 2006, 05:44 PM
Everyone at this point is probably tired of treading over the same topic of the integrated graphics of the macbook but do have one point to bring up. Just received my 2.0ghz macbook and upgraded the ram to 2gb and was hoping that the graphics at a minimum would play a dvd at a clean resolution or photos in clarity. Unfortunately both appear grainy and the pixels are pretty glaring. I realize this isnt a performance system and wasnt purchased for that reason but an entry level system should be able to play something as a dvd at a decent resolution or view pictures as such. I have it set to full screen resolution but is there something i may be missing? (aside from comments that the integrated graphics are horrendous).

Sorry to hear that. Mine plays DVD's flawlessly. Hell, it plays HD clips at 1080 just fine... Have you adjusted the viewing angle? I noticed that my wallpaper looks grainy if I do not have the viewing angle right.

faintember
May 23, 2006, 10:12 PM
Just saw this over on the Apple Support Forums, and i havent seen it posted here yet:
(the following link leads to a .pdf download)
http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/MacBook_13inch_HardDrive_DIY.pdf.

Yeah, an official Apple manual that tells you how to replace your HD. Brilliant and great news for us MB and potential MB owners!:D :) :D

Oh, link to the original discussion on the Apple Forums if anyone is interested: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=493496&tstart=0

miyamoto
May 23, 2006, 11:43 PM
Sorry to hear that. Mine plays DVD's flawlessly. Hell, it plays HD clips at 1080 just fine... Have you adjusted the viewing angle? I noticed that my wallpaper looks grainy if I do not have the viewing angle right.

Nope, the viewing angle doesnt seem to be the problem. My old notebook used integrated graphics and seems to have run dvds and photos more clearly. Not sure if i expect too much out of this notebook.

As an aside, this is my first mac. Its been two days without windows and have to admit, like what i see so far aside from the above issue.

ginoledesma
May 24, 2006, 03:23 AM
I know the others have mentioned the Momentus 5400.3 not shipping until July, but NewEgg seems to be selling it now for $224.99 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148073) and is on stock. 3 user comments so far.

Edit: Never mind. My eyes glossed ATA-6 for SATA. Sigh!

To make up for that, those who are looking for RAM, you might want to check out Outpost's Mushkin 1GB PC2 5300 SO-DIMM (http://shop2.outpost.com/product/4700769) for $67.99 + S/H + Tax after $20 mail-in rebate (good til 5/25 only though).

Murdock
May 24, 2006, 04:58 AM
Shamlessly ignoring the ongoing discussion, is there anyone else who is a bit pissed off because they slap in 2x256 RAM sticks instead of one 512? I was hoping you could simply get another 1 gb stick from an 3rd party dealer(ie much cheaper than applestore) and try it out with 1,5 gb's to see if that was enough. Now you'd only have 1,25 gb's and a 256 mb stick that is unused(which you could possibly sell for some spare change i guess).

I dunno, maybe this is standard procedure or something but i thought it was a bit cheap.

Multimedia
May 24, 2006, 06:59 AM
Shamlessly ignoring the ongoing discussion, is there anyone else who is a bit pissed off because they slap in 2x256 RAM sticks instead of one 512? I was hoping you could simply get another 1 gb stick from an 3rd party dealer(ie much cheaper than applestore) and try it out with 1,5 gb's to see if that was enough. Now you'd only have 1,25 gb's and a 256 mb stick that is unused(which you could possibly sell for some spare change i guess).

I dunno, maybe this is standard procedure or something but i thought it was a bit cheap.512 is twice the minimum specification for 10.4 and Apple makes a lot of money on their ram upgrades. Just buy two 1 GB OPTIVAL sticks from Omni via Ramseeker.com (http://Ramseeker.com) for $144 and be done with it. No point in experimenting when you know 1GB per core is considered by experts is a rule of thumb minimum for best performance. I know I plan on replacing the 1GB sticks with 2GB sticks as soon as they are commercially viable and about 150% more expensive - IE $225 per 2GB stick or so, hoping by the end of 2007.

While Apple says 2GB is the max, fact is 2GB sticks will work when they finally come to market at a reasonable price. Right now they are so expensive most vendors don't even try to sell them. :(

faintember
May 24, 2006, 03:52 PM
Just got my 2x1GB kit of Econoram from DMS ($185). Popped it in (setting the RAM does require a bit of pressure, but not bad), and ran Memtest in single-user mode.

No problems at all and my MB is responding faster. Rosetta performance is also improved. Happy camper here!

MrCrowbar
May 24, 2006, 04:39 PM
Nope, the viewing angle doesnt seem to be the problem. My old notebook used integrated graphics and seems to have run dvds and photos more clearly. Not sure if i expect too much out of this notebook.

As an aside, this is my first mac. Its been two days without windows and have to admit, like what i see so far aside from the above issue.

My Macbook (see Sig) plays DVDs and 720p Video flawlessly. The only bad thing on Macs is they don't have vertical sync, so sometimes you see 2 half pictures overlines, what gives you horizontal lines at fast motion scenes (especially awful at horizontal camera movement). But that's on the quad powermac too...

I can play HL2 at medium settings with 50 fps at full resolution on my Macbook. Doesn't look as pretty as full everything settings on my iMac, but it's okay. I think you could compare the GMA to an ATI 9600 (mobility) on 3D stuff. I have that specific card in my PC laptop and the results are similar.

You might want to show the Macbook playing a DVD to an store employee and eventually return your Macbook. I would if it couldn't do DVDs.

PaulinMaryland
May 25, 2006, 03:49 PM
Did a pixel comparison between 17" MBP + 17" Apple Monitor vs. MacBook + 24" Dell 1920x1200 WS. Turns out the MacBook + Dell 24" WS setup would give you over a quarter million more pixels of desktop space for less than the price of the 17" MacBook Pro alone. It gets even better if you substitute Dell's 2405FPW, which currently can be bought on U.S. eBay, new, for as little as $735 shipped. On eBay, the shipped price is falling by $3 to $5 a week.

On the other hand, for someone wishing to run a 30-inch display (2560 x 1680), the MacBook Pro's built-in support represents an outstanding value...and the only viable Mac laptop.

By the way, Dell's 30-incher--the 3007wfp--is now on eBay for as low as $1540 shipped! On eBay, the shipped price is falling by $5 to $8 a week.

x86
May 25, 2006, 06:46 PM
My Macbook (see Sig) plays DVDs and 720p Video flawlessly. The only bad thing on Macs is they don't have vertical sync, so sometimes you see 2 half pictures overlines, what gives you horizontal lines at fast motion scenes (especially awful at horizontal camera movement). But that's on the quad powermac too...

I can play HL2 at medium settings with 50 fps at full resolution on my Macbook. Doesn't look as pretty as full everything settings on my iMac, but it's okay. I think you could compare the GMA to an ATI 9600 (mobility) on 3D stuff. I have that specific card in my PC laptop and the results are similar.

You might want to show the Macbook playing a DVD to an store employee and eventually return your Macbook. I would if it couldn't do DVDs.

How smooth does HL2 run? I was very close to buying one last week, but decided against it because I'm a big fan of Counter-Strike Source.

Prints
May 29, 2006, 08:25 AM
No problem at all. There s indeed truth in the concept of paired RAM, but the difference is not noticable or really measurable. Apple just puts twi 256 DIMMS in there because it's cheaper than one 512 DIMM.
I ordered mine with 1Gig of RAM. If I want to upgrade it to 2Gigs, do I buy a 1Gig module ? Will it come with a 1Gig in one bay and nothing in the other ?
or do they accomplish 1Gig with two 512's ??
Any suggestions on where to buy RAM ?? I used to buy from Chip Merchant, but haven't recently.
thanks,

glennsan
May 29, 2006, 05:59 PM
Try the first post on the first page of this thread!

In other news...i just purchased 2x1GB sticks of RAM from DMS (Econoram) and the Hitachi Travelstar 7200rpm 100GB HD from OWC. I will post back on performance increases once they come in and are installed. Too bad the HD wont be here until Friday (they were out of stock).


Faintember,

Were you able to get the HD replaced and run a speed test? I am really curious to find out what the increased speed did for using applications. When I replaced the 5400 HD on my tower with a 7200 I was able to see the difference to the eye. Thanks.

faintember
May 29, 2006, 06:49 PM
Were you able to get the HD replaced and run a speed test? I am really curious to find out what the increased speed did for using applications.Well i didnt run any "official" benchmarks, but Rosetta performance is better, the computer is generally quicker responding, especially with my audio applications (all of which are running under Rosetta). It was no where near as big difference when i moved from my 4200rpm drive in my TiPB to a 5400rpm drive, but the difference is noticeable.

That said, i dont regret the decision to pick the 7200rpm drive over a larger capacity 5400rpm drive.

Willis
May 29, 2006, 10:33 PM
I ordered mine with 1Gig of RAM. If I want to upgrade it to 2Gigs, do I buy a 1Gig module ? Will it come with a 1Gig in one bay and nothing in the other ?
or do they accomplish 1Gig with two 512's ??
Any suggestions on where to buy RAM ?? I used to buy from Chip Merchant, but haven't recently.
thanks,

you didnt pay that much attention then =P

if you ordered it with 1Gig, then it will have 2x 512 sticks. If you want 2Gigs, you'll have to buy 2x1Gig sticks. sell the 2x512's on ebay, might aswell get some cash back.

glennsan
May 29, 2006, 10:47 PM
Well i didnt run any "official" benchmarks, but Rosetta performance is better, the computer is generally quicker responding, especially with my audio applications (all of which are running under Rosetta). It was no where near as big difference when i moved from my 4200rpm drive in my TiPB to a 5400rpm drive, but the difference is noticeable.

That said, i dont regret the decision to pick the 7200rpm drive over a larger capacity 5400rpm drive.

Thanks, I was just trying to see if you could notice the difference afterwards and thought it was worth the money. I think I am going to get my SD MacBook this weekend and will upgrade the HD as well.

PaulinMaryland
May 30, 2006, 03:32 PM
It gets even better if you substitute Dell's 2405FPW, which currently can be bought on U.S. eBay, new, for as little as $735 shipped. On eBay, the shipped price is falling by $3 to $5 a week.Now $728 shipped (http://search.ebay.com/dell-2405fpw_W0QQcatrefZC6QQcoactionZcompareQQcoentrypageZsearchQQcopagenumZ1QQflocZ1QQfromZR10QQfrppZ50Q QfsooZ1QQfsopZ3QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQmaxrecordsreturnedZ300QQpriceZ1QQsacatZQ2d1QQsaprcloZ300QQsascsZ2QQ saslcZ3QQsbrsrtZl) (May 30).

By the way, Dell's 30-incher--the 3007wfp--is now on eBay for as low as $1540 shipped! On eBay, the shipped price is falling by $5 to $8 a week.Alas, prices have jumped back up into the mid $1600s shipped (http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&from=R10&maxrecordsreturned=300&catref=C6&frpp=50&satitle=Dell+3007&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&bs=Search&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&floc=1&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D3&sappl=1&sascs=2&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=).

mitsukai
May 31, 2006, 03:12 AM
I apologise in advance if this is an inappropriate way to ask a question in this thread. I posted this (link below) in a different thread, but I realise now it may have been better off here...

It is with regards to upgrading ram and differences in ram specs:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2467656&postcount=279

If anyone would prefer me to copy/paste my orig post here rather than a link, please let me know and I will.

Reggers,
M

Multimedia
Jun 2, 2006, 08:48 PM
I apologise in advance if this is an inappropriate way to ask a question in this thread. I posted this (link below) in a different thread, but I realise now it may have been better off here...

It is with regards to upgrading ram and differences in ram specs:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2467656&postcount=279Omni OPTIVAL Is Only Slightly Higher Latency And Well Worth The Money Saved. Stop worrying over nothing. You will never know the difference in a blind test. :rolleyes:

mashinhead
Jun 2, 2006, 09:04 PM
what tool to you use to unscrew the HD from the silver case?

Multimedia
Jun 2, 2006, 09:21 PM
what tool to you use to unscrew the HD from the silver case?Post #1 has links to instructions and video.Both the MacBook's RAM and Hard Drive are accessible through a panel under the battery and the process has been detailed in this Video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=8c6ckjy-gdY) from MacWorld.Interesting video without telling us anything about what screwdrivers are needed and not showing removal of HD from bracket and putting another one in the bracket, nor how to add new ram modules.
Post #165 Just saw this over on the Apple Support Forums, and i havent seen it posted here yet:
(the following link leads to a .pdf download)
http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/MacBook_13inch_HardDrive_DIY.pdf.

Yeah, an official Apple manual that tells you how to replace your HD. Brilliant and great news for us MB and potential MB owners!:D :) :D

Oh, link to the original discussion on the Apple Forums if anyone is interested: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=493496&tstart=0These instructions say Phillips #1 but then fail to show the removal of the HD from the bracket and replacement with another HD into the bracket. Weird.

Here's a new thread for MacBook HD replacement help (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=203490).

Mass Hysteria
Jun 3, 2006, 12:47 PM
i dont regret the decision to pick the 7200rpm drive over a larger capacity 5400rpm drive.

yeah, sure! I stuck 160gb in the powerbook when the perpendicular drives first came out, I can't imagine how I'd cope with only 100 now

mrfop
Jun 4, 2006, 05:11 AM
Hey all, I'm gonna get a stock lower end macbook and replace the ram and HD since using for mobile DJin (Ableton), this (http://www.dabs.com/ProductView.aspx?Quicklinx=3W56&CategorySelectedId=11154&PageMode=1&NavigationKey=11154,41580000,4294960494,4294960493,42240000&InMerch=1) a good option on the HD front for us UK buyers? Its 8mb cache too, so must be better, no?

Cheers ;)

Dave

FleurDuMal
Jun 4, 2006, 05:24 AM
Hey all, I'm gonna get a stock lower end macbook and replace the ram and HD since using for mobile DJin (Ableton), this (http://www.dabs.com/ProductView.aspx?Quicklinx=3W56&CategorySelectedId=11154&PageMode=1&NavigationKey=11154,41580000,4294960494,4294960493,42240000&InMerch=1) a good option on the HD front for us UK buyers? Its 8mb cache too, so must be better, no?

Cheers ;)

Dave

Might it not be a problem that it doesn't explicitly guarantee Mac-compatiblity (even if in theory it should actually work)? Although this isn't important insofar that 99% of the time the hard drive will work easily, in that 1% of times it may make it more difficult to return it. I know this is true for RAM, but not so sure about hard drives.

Does anyone know any dedicated Mac online stores in the UK?!

mrfop
Jun 4, 2006, 08:00 AM
Might it not be a problem that it doesn't explicitly guarantee Mac-compatiblity (even if in theory it should actually work)? Although this isn't important insofar that 99% of the time the hard drive will work easily, in that 1% of times it may make it more difficult to return it. I know this is true for RAM, but not so sure about hard drives.

Good point that it might be difficult to get Applecare after installing a HD that isn't favoured by Apple. Anyone got any thoughts on all this? I just want to make music ... SATA's, 9.5mm - it sounds like weaponry!!! This is all too much!!! :rolleyes:

Cheers

Dave

mjstew33
Jun 4, 2006, 08:25 AM
If Apple is letting a user install a harddrive, or any user-replacement part, they must cover the machine. However, they will not cover the hard drive. :)

Multimedia
Jun 5, 2006, 12:17 AM
what tool to you use to unscrew the HD from the silver case?I used a 2mm hex-L Key.2mm hex-L Key Opens the skid. Thank you. :)

Eldentistfuturo
Jun 5, 2006, 08:43 AM
No one here has the guts to Upgrade Their Hard Drive so we'll never know. Big secret. None of the videos say and no one here is willing to share. Screwdriver size and type is too basic a question for all the brainiacs here to answer. :confused: :eek:


I used a 2mm hex-L Key.

PaulinMaryland
Jun 5, 2006, 08:18 PM
I read about it here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1023&thread=18718433

Does anyone know where to find the announcement? I want to know whether its sufficiently shallow (9mm? 9.5mm?) to fit the MacBook.

mitsukai
Jun 6, 2006, 09:00 PM
I read about it here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1023&thread=18718433

Does anyone know where to find the announcement? I want to know whether its sufficiently shallow (9mm? 9.5mm?) to fit the MacBook.

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/peripherals/toshiba-200gb-notebook-drive-178349.php

http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news-11873-MK2035GSS+the+200GB+25+HDD+from+Toshiba.html

Multimedia
Jun 6, 2006, 09:15 PM
I read about it here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1023&thread=18718433

Does anyone know where to find the announcement? I want to know whether its sufficiently shallow (9mm? 9.5mm?) to fit the MacBook.http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/peripherals/toshiba-200gb-notebook-drive-178349.php

http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news-11873-MK2035GSS+the+200GB+25+HDD+from+Toshiba.htmlGood get Mitsukai. :) I could not find. :(

OK it only rolls 4200rpm. BUT there's a heat issue and a density issue. At that density of storage space, 4200 may be as fast as 5400 and the only way to keep it cool. NOTE it is SATA2 not 1. Weither the MacBook supports SATA2 is another matter we probably don't know the answer to yet. We all know it will work at SATA1 speed if not. Anyone?

Cost is going to be very high - Probably at least $300 (guess) if we're lucky to get it for $1.50/GB. Hope that's a really bad guess. $200 would be great. :) NOTE - 3.5" drives are down to about 25¢/GB. Fry's recently sold 400GB Seagate PATA drives for $100 on Memorial Day. OK I admit to wanting one. But will need speed benchmark to pass on the Seagate 160 5400 SATA in July. :confused:According to the first link, Toshiba's new 200GB drive is 9mm thick. According to the second link, it's 9.5mm. Can anyone recall whether 9.5mm is too thick?I think that must be a typo since 9.5mm is the same thickness as the much smaller capacity drives that Apple ships with the MacBook. So it's highly unlikely that a much higher capacity drive could be any thiner.

PaulinMaryland
Jun 7, 2006, 07:43 AM
According to the first link, Toshiba's new 200GB drive is 9mm thick. According to the second link, it's 9.5mm. Can anyone recall whether 9.5mm is too thick?

Abulia
Jun 7, 2006, 10:32 AM
Here are some benchmarks (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=206695), including 7200 rpm drive tests.

PaulinMaryland
Jun 7, 2006, 02:39 PM
Now $728 shipped (http://search.ebay.com/dell-2405fpw_W0QQcatrefZC6QQcoactionZcompareQQcoentrypageZsearchQQcopagenumZ1QQflocZ1QQfromZR10QQfrppZ50Q QfsooZ1QQfsopZ3QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQmaxrecordsreturnedZ300QQpriceZ1QQsacatZQ2d1QQsaprcloZ300QQsascsZ2QQ saslcZ3QQsbrsrtZl) (May 30).
[/URL].
Now $709 shipped, new:
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Dell-24-UntraSharp-2405FPW-Flat-Panel-LCD-Monitor_W0QQitemZ8824217449QQihZ005QQcategoryZ86706QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I remember paying $2450 in 1992 for the first 21-inch CRT that could display 1600 x 1200 at 80 Hz (Nokia 445X). It took me three years to pay off the CRT and the $900, 4MB Matrox card that drove it. It hurts...

Multimedia
Jun 7, 2006, 04:55 PM
Now $709 shipped, new:
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Dell-24-UntraSharp-2405FPW-Flat-Panel-LCD-Monitor_W0QQitemZ8824217449QQihZ005QQcategoryZ86706QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I remember paying $2450 in 1992 for the first 21-inch CRT that could display 1600 x 1200 at 80 Hz (Nokia 445X). It took me three years to pay off the CRT and the $900, 4MB Matrox card that drove it. It hurts...$499 plus $209 shipping is an obscene shipping fee for something that weighs only about 40 pounds.:rolleyes: . But it is a bargain.

Dell's Page for it (http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/monitor_3007wfp?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~section=specs#tabtop).

Now when do we get those $999 30" 2560 x 1600 displays? :)

mitsukai
Jun 7, 2006, 10:18 PM
Weither the MacBook supports SATA2 is another matter we probably don't know the answer to yet. We all know it will work at SATA1 speed if not. Anyone?

For the MB and MBP it looks like SATAII will be fine. Scroll down to "Serial ATA Drive Interface". You may need to go to "next page" for MB notes:

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/HardwareDrivers/Conceptual/MacBookPro_0601/Articles/MacBookPro_0601.html
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/HardwareDrivers/Conceptual/MacBook_0605/index.html

hmmm....price-wise, no word at all yet that I can find. Not even any other guesstimates beyond what Multimedia said. But it is already being put in some of their laptops eg. http://uk.computers.toshiba-europe.com/cgi-bin/ToshibaCSG/selected_product_option.jsp?service=UK&ACTION=PRINT_WITH_BACK&PRODUCT_ID=108695&DISC_MODEL=0

:confused:I think that must be a typo since 9.5mm is the same thickness as the much smaller capacity drives that Apple ships with the MacBook. So it's highly unlikely that a much higher capacity drive could be any thiner.

Yep, def a typo. Straight from the horse's mouth:
http://sdd.toshiba.com/main.aspx?Path=818200000007000000010000659800001516/818200000aff000000010000659c000026ad/818200000192000000010000659c0000279f/818200000d07000000010000659c00002ea4

BTW Multimedia, sorry I didn't have time to explain yesterday's links fully. Had just enough time to throw up the two links I'd already seen before I hadda run... :o

Multimedia
Jun 7, 2006, 11:02 PM
For the MB and MBP it looks like SATA2 is supported. Scroll down to "Serial ATA Drive Interface". You may need to go to "next page" for MB notes:

Serial ATA Drive Interface (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/HardwareDrivers/Conceptual/MacBookPro_0601/Articles/MacBookPro_0601.html)
"The 15-inch MacBook Pro comes with a 5400 rpm (optionally, a 7200 rpm) Serial ATA (SATA) Gen-I (1.5 Gbps) disk drive. The SATA disk drives operate through an AHCI 1.1 controller that supports advanced SATA-II features such as Native Command Queuing (NCQ) and PHY power management."

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/HardwareDrivers/Conceptual/MacBook_0605/index.html

hmmm....price-wise, no word at all yet that I can find. Not even any other guesstimates beyond what Multimedia said. But it is already being put in some of their laptops eg. http://uk.computers.toshiba-europe.com/cgi-bin/ToshibaCSG/selected_product_option.jsp?service=UK&ACTION=PRINT_WITH_BACK&PRODUCT_ID=108695&DISC_MODEL=0

Yep, def a typo. It's 9.5 mm thick. Straight from the horse's mouth:
http://sdd.toshiba.com/main.aspx?Path=818200000007000000010000659800001516/818200000aff000000010000659c000026ad/818200000192000000010000659c0000279f/818200000d07000000010000659c00002ea4

"MK2035GSS
2.5" HDD 200GB*

Toshiba Storage Device Division (SDD), the industry pioneer in small form factor hard disk drives (HDDs), introduces the 200GB 2.5-inch HDD based on Perpendicular Magnetic Recording (PMR) technology. Toshiba's second-generation PMR offering features the worlds highest areal density at 178.8 gigabits per square inch and the highest-capacity drive on the market in the standard 9.5mm mobile PC format**.

The 200GB dual-platter drive offers enough capacity for portable video recording and editing, gaming, music and other multimedia applications. The MK2035GSS weighs only 98 grams and features lower power consumption compared to the traditional 3.5-inch HDDs. Toshiba's 200GB HDD provides mobile PC manufacturers the ideal combination of capacity and power to manufacture and market mobile PCs as a replacement for traditional desktop computers. The MK2035GSS incorporates the Serial ATA (SATA) II interface and is ATA-7 compliant, supporting high transfer rates of up to 150 megabytes per second.

** As of June 5, 2006""transfer rates of up to 150 megabytes per second" is SATA1 speed isn't it? :confused:

But either 1 or 2 a 200GB SATA HD inside a MacBook or MacBook Pro is going to be fun to have! Only question is how fast it will feel and will it be fast enough to capture video without hiccups? Since they specifically mention "portable video recording and editing", it shouldn't be a problem.

And based on Don's Benchmark Work (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=206695), I have to believe it's going to feel faster than some of us think. :)

PaulinMaryland
Jun 8, 2006, 08:13 AM
Now when do we get those $999 30" 2560 x 1600 displays? :)If it comes soon, you'll be wringing your hands for buying a MacBook instead of a MacBook Pro!

I'm fanatical about the virtues of large displays with millions of pixels. For years, I've been saying that prices fall by about 20 percent a year. However, I think that that figure is proving conservative. What we're seeing is a hastening of the trickle-down of good things to the masses. So: $999 shipped for a 30-inch 2560 x 1680? My guess is the second half of 2008. But not from Apple.

Multimedia
Jun 8, 2006, 10:40 AM
If it comes soon, you'll be wringing your hands for buying a MacBook instead of a MacBook Pro!

I'm fanatical about the virtues of large displays with millions of pixels. For years, I've been saying that prices fall by about 20 percent a year. However, I think that that figure is proving conservative. What we're seeing is a hastening of the trickle-down of good things to the masses. So: $999 shipped for a 30-inch 2560 x 1600? My guess is the second half of 2008. But not from Apple.Well I don't think Dual DVI support from the MacBook is in the cards for another year or more anyway. But I wonder if two more years isn't excessively conservative. The Dell 30" is already down to $1660 on eBay - delivered (http://cgi.ebay.com/DELL-30-WIDE-ULTRA-SHARP-LCD-MONITOR-3007FPW-NEW_W0QQitemZ8824496509QQihZ005QQcategoryZ86706QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem). :eek: :)

Please pardon me for straying off topic. Seems like tangentally relevant info to me. :)

mrfop
Jun 16, 2006, 03:52 PM
2mm hex-L Key Opens the skid. Thank you. :)

Hi, can anyone verify this? Because it doesn't open mine. It's one of those star shaped/headed keys (looking like this ---> * <---, with six symmetrical points) that seems to be required.

Lord only knows where you get one of them from. I might have to file grooves into my hex key!!!! So near, yet so far! :o

Dave

mashinhead
Jun 16, 2006, 05:57 PM
Hi, can anyone verify this? Because it doesn't open mine. It's one of those star shaped/headed keys (looking like this ---> * <---, with six symmetrical points) that seems to be required.

Lord only knows where you get one of them from. I might have to file grooves into my hex key!!!! So near, yet so far! :o

Dave


i used a small flat head, worke perfect.

Multimedia
Jun 16, 2006, 06:50 PM
Hi, can anyone verify this? Because it doesn't open mine. It's one of those star shaped/headed keys (looking like this ---> * <---, with six symmetrical points) that seems to be required.

Lord only knows where you get one of them from. I might have to file grooves into my hex key!!!! So near, yet so far! :o

DaveTorx. Sold in sets at your local HW store. Most are size 0 and 1 that Apple uses. :)

AllenWatson
Jul 4, 2006, 05:46 PM
If you go with a Seagate Momentus 5400.3 120GB (or 160GB in July) drive the performance may be better than other brands because of their new perpendicular technology.

7200 RPM drives will wear your battery down faster. I advise against the 7200 for this reason. If battery life is not important to you, then 7200 is fine. But you can only go to 100GB so far - from what I've read here. I am not convinced you'll see that much performance improvement with 7200 for most applications.

I would rather have a bigger hard drive inside. It's the 160GB Seagate Momentus 5400.3 SATA for me after it ships in July.

Did you actually get the 5400.3 and install it in your MacBook? I would like to do so, but see no indication that it is compatible with a MacBook. (Reply by e-mail appreciated)

Multimedia
Jul 4, 2006, 06:42 PM
Did you actually get the 5400.3 and install it in your MacBook? I would like to do so, but see no indication that it is compatible with a MacBook. (Reply by e-mail appreciated)It's 9.5mm compatible thin. No problem. :)

PaulinMaryland
Jul 7, 2006, 12:44 PM
Oops--The eBay and NewEgg links I had posted here are for the ATA-6 version.

DasRaven
Jul 13, 2006, 10:28 AM
OtherWorld Computing is now offering the Hitachi 5K160 160Gb PMR HDD upgrade for the MacBook and MacBook Pro for $279 with same day shipping.

Now where's the Seagate 5400.3 so that they'll be some competition to drive the prices down? ;)

Details (http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Hitachi/0A28844/)

ShadowStar
Jul 17, 2006, 06:58 PM
I've been watching this thread for a while and was holding out for Seagate's SATA flavor of the 160 GB Momentus 5400.3 that was mentioned earlier to be released in July. I want as much breathing room as possible so I can comfortably run Boot Camp, Parallels, and all the OS X apps that I want to carry with me. My 60 GB drive on my MacBook is completely stuffed and have resorted to running Windows applications (both apps on Boot Camp and my Parallels drive image) on an external drive.

After trying deperately to keep my System drive from running out of space this weekend, I caved and placed an order for the 120 GB Seagate drive. Luckily I found the last post and quickly cancelled that order and ordered the Hitachi 160 GB drive instead! I would've kicked myself if I found out these were out and it was too late. Thank you for that! :)

I'm pretty loyal to Seagate products, but I can't wait any more and there didn't seem to be a good reason why Seagate hasn't released their SATA flavor of the 5400.3, so Hitachi wins my dollars this time.

I'll let you know how it works out...anybody else been holding out for a 160 GB SATA drive to use in their MacBooks?

P.S. The OWC Mercury On-The-Go FW 800/USB 2.0 drive enclosure for 2.5" SATA drives is now available, also! Now I can use my 60 GB drive as an external drive (in a very stylish case to boot!). It's available here: http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/MSTG800U2K/.

Altimeter88
Jul 17, 2006, 11:21 PM
I have also been following this thread and have been holding out for either the 5K160 (Hitachi) or the 5400.3 (Seagate) 160GB SATA drive.
I don't know why it is taking so long to get these out. Newegg has had the Seagate pATA version since just after I purchased my MBP almost 4 months ago and I expected these drives to be out in SATA months ago.
Anyway I am also partial to Seagate and they are always my first choice, however I have read a lot in the past few days regarding Hitachi's perpendicular recording process and it is supposed to be the best in the industry, they were not the first (Seagate was) but from what I read Hitachi changed the process on how they do it and that is why they were lagging behind Seagate but they are proud that they waited because they claim a better product than Seagate when it comes to these drives. I don't know how much of that is true, Seagate has a 5-year warranty but I have to admit after reading all that I did I am leaning toward the Hitachi 5K160 drive now.
Now the main reason I haven't jumped on the Macsales.com (OWC) deal is because I questioned if they truly had the drive in stock and ready to ship as they claimed on thier site because I can't find a SINGLE e-tailer (such as Newegg) who carries these drives, I don't see why OWC gets first "dibbs" on the Hitachi drives but I chatted with thier customer services today as well as e-mailed thier sales department and both confirmed that the drives are in fact in stock and they will ship the same day you order.
So now the only thing holding me back is the price, Newegg sells both the Seagate and Hitach drive (ATA versions) for just under or right at $200 and I know that when they get the SATA versions they will be priced the same or just a little above that price.
So my thinking has been that "if OWC truly has these in stock then Hitachi is shipping them and we are talking a matter of days at most before other e-tailers get them, at that point the prices will come down." So unless someone can explain to me why OWC is the only e-tailer who can get these drives I am going to keep waiting for Newegg or another e-tailer to get them.

ShadowStar
Jul 17, 2006, 11:49 PM
So my thinking has been that "if OWC truly has these in stock then Hitachi is shipping them and we are talking a matter of days at most before other e-tailers get them, at that point the prices will come down."

I agree, it is odd (and that the drive is a bit overpriced)...but I do have a UPS tracking number for my order shipped out same day (as long as you order before 5 PM CST), so I'm pretty sure it's for real. I've never bought anything from OWC, but they're well respected (and I love their enclosures)...I usually order from Newegg myself, too.

I probably would have waited too for the price to come down and for more general availability (along with a competitive drive from Seagate), but my need for space was immediate...I waited 2 months already for the Seagate 160 GB drive to come out.

Altimeter88
Jul 18, 2006, 11:50 AM
OK screw it, I am tired of waiting so I just placed my order. Total was $282 so definatly a little steep but I really need the space and am tired of waiting. I did find 2 more (not well known) e-tailers carrying this drive today but they were the same price or more than OWC.

Now I need to figure out the best/easiest way to get my data off the current 100GB drive and onto the new drive. If this were simply windows I could just use ghost or something. Perhaps I will make a ghost image of my Windows partition and just backup the data from the OSX partition, install the new hard drive, install boot camp, then try and use ghost to restore the XP image to the partition that boot camp created. I guess I will have to do some forum searching b/c I am sure that someone has had to do this before.

One more question, my OSX partition was filled with about 30GB of data when I first got my MBP, that seemed like an awful lot compared to the 2-3GB that windows installs, is there utterly useless stuff (like extra languages/fonts etc.) that Mac puts on by default that I can get rid of? If the 30gigs of data are the programs like iPhoto and iLife I want to keep that stuff but if there is stuff I don't know about and would never use I wouldn't mind trying to free up some space when I reinstall OSX.

ShadowStar
Jul 18, 2006, 01:10 PM
Now I need to figure out the best/easiest way to get my data off the current 100GB drive and onto the new drive. If this were simply windows I could just use ghost or something. Perhaps I will make a ghost image of my Windows partition and just backup the data from the OSX partition, install the new hard drive, install boot camp, then try and use ghost to restore the XP image to the partition that boot camp created. I guess I will have to do some forum searching b/c I am sure that someone has had to do this before.

One more question, my OSX partition was filled with about 30GB of data when I first got my MBP, that seemed like an awful lot compared to the 2-3GB that windows installs, is there utterly useless stuff (like extra languages/fonts etc.) that Mac puts on by default that I can get rid of? If the 30gigs of data are the programs like iPhoto and iLife I want to keep that stuff but if there is stuff I don't know about and would never use I wouldn't mind trying to free up some space when I reinstall OSX.

I think you can just insert your Mac OS X install disk and can add/remove additional items (iLife apps, printer drivers, languages, etc.) I know you can do this when first setting up the OS. Yes, there is a lot of stuff that is installed that you probably won't use (I don't even have a printer and don't need language support other than English, for example) and you can save a lot of space by not including them. I had to reinstall OS X on my MacBook last night due to a failed 10.4.7 update (probably due to my storage shortage), so it's pretty nice and clean now.

I have an external drive that I can clone my System Partition to (using CCC or SuperDuper!), so that will help with the migration. When the new drive comes, I'll just clone from the external drive back to the internal. I haven't invested much in my Windows install, so I'm just going to re-run the Boot Camp Assistant and reinstall Windows.

Somebody on the forums has probably successfully copied both their OS X and Windows to new drives...and since I'm not attempting this, I'm speculating based on my experience with Windows.

1) If you use any type of partition cloning program for Windows, you'd have to make sure the partition size is the same on both your old drive and the new one...these programs will let you resize as needed, but I probably wouldn't change the size of the partition on your new drive. The little slider on the Boot Camp Assistant isn't very exact, so you likely won't get them exactly the same as you did when you ran it on your existing drive.

2) The easiest option (if it works) would probably be to use Partition Magic or something on the ENTIRE drive with the OS X partition and the Windows partition. Then you could resize the partitions the way you want them to adjust for your newly acquired space.

3) If there's a cloner program like Carbon Copy Cloner of SuperDuper! available for Windows (which copies files, not the partition), that should work just fine, also.

Good luck with this! :)

ShadowStar
Jul 20, 2006, 11:32 AM
My Hitachi 5K160 arrived yesterday. Unfortunately, I missed the step about using a size 8 Torx screwdriver to remove the old drive from the bracket. I was still able to get the drive in the MacBook without the bracket, but I need to get the bracket off so I can put it in the 2.5" SATA enclosure that will be arriving today.

The drive seems to run fast...it was copying about 16MB/sec using SuperDuper! I selected 31 GB for my Windows partition with Boot Camp Assistant which made the partition 31.7 GB...just under the FAT32 limit. I don't know if I'll keep the partition as FAT32, but at least I have the option to and shouldn't need more than 32 GB for Windows.

Once I get everything up and running again, I'll be a very happy camper :D

Altimeter88
Jul 20, 2006, 03:12 PM
My Hitachi 5K160 arrived yesterday. Unfortunately, I missed the step about using a size 8 Torx screwdriver to remove the old drive from the bracket. I was still able to get the drive in the MacBook without the bracket, but I need to get the bracket off so I can put it in the 2.5" SATA enclosure that will be arriving today.

The drive seems to run fast...it was copying about 16MB/sec using SuperDuper! I selected 31 GB for my Windows partition with Boot Camp Assistant which made the partition 31.7 GB...just under the FAT32 limit. I don't know if I'll keep the partition as FAT32, but at least I have the option to and shouldn't need more than 32 GB for Windows.

Once I get everything up and running again, I'll be a very happy camper :D

My drive should be here on Monday, I am thinking of refusing the shipment b/c it looks like ZipZoomFly.com has the drive listed on their site now for $179 with free shipping. It is out of stock indicating that it quickly sold out or that they don't have it yet and should have it anyday. They usually put the item up (but out of stock) a few days/weeks before getting the item. I order a decent amount of stuff from them and they are quite good. I imagine if they have it soon so will Newegg.
I will keep an eye on those sites this weekend.

Also where did you get the instructions for replacing the hard drive in the MacBook Pro, I heard that it is not as easy as the regular MacBook.

I noticed you were doing Fat32, you can make your partition bigger than 32GB for windows if you want, XP will only format up to 32GB but if you needed/wanted a bigger partition you could always install partition magic and it would format the remainder of the space and still have it as one partition. Or if it is possible, make the partition with Boot Camp, boot with Partition Magic and format the entire partition if it is bigger than 32GB, then put the XP install disk in and just install to the partition.
I don't even know if you want a bigger partition but just in case I thought I would throw that out.
It would be nice if 10.5 could read/write to NTFS.

Anyway good luck with your new drive, it looks like it should be pretty fast and do a good job, I am excited to get mine installed.

ShadowStar
Jul 20, 2006, 07:29 PM
Also where did you get the instructions for replacing the hard drive in the MacBook Pro, I heard that it is not as easy as the regular MacBook.

I noticed you were doing Fat32, you can make your partition bigger than 32GB for windows if you want, XP will only format up to 32GB but if you needed/wanted a bigger partition you could always install partition magic and it would format the remainder of the space and still have it as one partition. Or if it is possible, make the partition with Boot Camp, boot with Partition Magic and format the entire partition if it is bigger than 32GB, then put the XP install disk in and just install to the partition.
I don't even know if you want a bigger partition but just in case I thought I would throw that out.


ZipZoomFly is a good source and where I ended up cancelling my order for a 120 GB Seagate drive before I knew the 5K160 was out. the 120 GB was about $167 there, so if the 5K160 comes out there at the $179 price point, that would be a steal.

Yeah, I've heard about the trick about extending the partition after the fact, but I really don't need more than 32 GB anyway. The only real reason I need that partition is for games. I will use Parallels mainly for Visual Studio and Streets and Trips (which is WAY better than the mapping software that's available for OS X). I'm just now sinking my teeth into Cocoa development with Xcode, so it will be easier to port over some C# code in a virtual machine than having to reboot with Boot Camp.

I have a MacBook, not a Pro, and know the Pro is not as easy to install as the MacBook.

PaulinMaryland
Jul 21, 2006, 08:03 AM
Hitachi 5K160 at Zipzoomfly. (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=100815)

PaulinMaryland
Jul 21, 2006, 03:05 PM
(added immediately:) I screwed up again: It's the ATA-6. Man, I wish Hitachi would use a completely different model number for the SATA!

Finally, some price competition:

Hitachi 5K160 at NewEgg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822146200&ATT=22-146-200&CMP=OTC-Froogle).

smudger14
Jul 23, 2006, 08:15 AM
Hi there, I just bought a MacBook. I was just wondering....How many video memory will windows xp take from the gma 950 if I try to install windows xp using bootcamp? Will it be 64MB just like Tiger or can I set it higher (for example 128MB).

Thanks for the help

Altimeter88
Jul 27, 2006, 08:23 PM
Well I got my new drive installed and working great in my MacBook Pro yesterday.
Today Newegg.com is selling the 5K160 for $220:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822145113

Replacing the drive is kind of a pain the the MBP, you can find a link for repacing the hard drive in the MacBook Pro here:
http://eshop.macsales.com/tech_center/index.cfm?page=Video/directory.html

PaulinMaryland
Jul 28, 2006, 08:29 AM
I didn't realize that NewEgg had the SATA version in stock; you must have ordered the day they arrived.

I just received mine from mwave.com--same price you paid.

playaj82
Jul 28, 2006, 12:46 PM
If anybody has put a 7200rpm drive in their MacBook, please let me know.

I want to see some hard numbers on performance and battery to see if its worth it.

And I don't need people telling me that there won't be a performance difference between a 5400rpm and 7200rpm drive, the hard drive is the first bottleneck in a computer.

DasRaven
Jul 28, 2006, 01:48 PM
I didn't realize that NewEgg had the SATA version in stock; you must have ordered the day they arrived.

I just received mine from mwave.com--same price you paid.

Just placed my Newegg order last night for 2Gb of RAM and the 5k160 and it has already shipped. I tried to wait for the Seagate, but with 2Gb left of the BlackBook's 80Gb disk, I had to move on the Hitachi.

I doubt I'll be disappointed. My Macbook is now a Maxedbook

EAH22
Jul 28, 2006, 02:58 PM
Can anyone confirm exactly what tools are needed to replace your ram and hard drive? I have heard its a #00 Phillips for the 3 screws and a Torx number 8 for the hard drive casing. Is that correct? Oh, I am speaking specifically about the macbook.

PaulinMaryland
Jul 28, 2006, 07:13 PM
Here's the Hitachi TravelStar 160GB SATA hard drive at mWave (http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=AA49490).

EAH22
Jul 28, 2006, 10:18 PM
Can anyone confirm exactly what tools are needed to replace your ram and hard drive? I have heard its a #00 Phillips for the 3 screws and a Torx number 8 for the hard drive casing. Is that correct? Oh, I am speaking specifically about the macbook.


bump

Altimeter88
Jul 31, 2006, 09:14 AM
bump

I don't have a list but you can download a video clip to watch the procedure for replacing the hard drive and RAM here:

http://eshop.macsales.com/tech_center/index.cfm?page=Video/directory.html

I just replaced the hard drive in my macbook pro by watching the video from the link above. It would have been nice though to have a list of needed tools because I got my MacBook Pro all the way torn apart and then needed a Torx 6 screwdriver. I had a T5 but it wouldn't get the screws out of the hard drive so I had to run to Radio Shack and I picked up the Kronos 20-piece bit driver set for $15:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062778&cp=&origkw=torx+6&kw=torx+6&parentPage=search

So to replace the hard drive in the MacBook Pro you need:
P0 Phillips (I think a P00 would also work) - For most of the screws totalling about 21 to replace the HDD
Torx T6 - For 2 screws under battery and 4 screws on HDD

ginoledesma
Aug 4, 2006, 02:34 PM
Seems like OWC MacSales is now carrying both the Seagate and Hitachi 160GB drives:

Hitachi 160GB 5400rpm HIT0A28844 (http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Hitachi/0A28844/) -- $279.00
Seagate 160GB 5400rpm ST9160821ASK (http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Seagate/ST9160821ASK/) -- $299.00

l3lue
Aug 6, 2006, 03:55 AM
Seems like OWC MacSales is now carrying both the Seagate and Hitachi 160GB drives:

Hitachi 160GB 5400rpm HIT0A28844 (http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Hitachi/0A28844/) -- $279.00
Seagate 160GB 5400rpm ST9160821ASK (http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Seagate/ST9160821ASK/) -- $299.00

Those prices need to come down about $100 for my business.

Moloko3000
Aug 17, 2006, 01:12 PM
Hi all,

I've just bought me a white MacBook 2.0ghz. Since I've been reading quite a lot on the subject before the purchase, I've also bought outside AppleStore 2 gb Ram and a New Seagate 7200 SATA 100gb HD. My question now is, with the original Mac 60gb HD, is it a good idea if a make it specically for WinXP while using the bigger one for OSX?

Since we cannot install BootCamp and furthermore WinXp on an External Drive (I have an USB2 drive enclosure with 100gb that woulda been great for that), the new HD would serve the purpose of operating OSX while not being overrun in Data usage by an WinXp counterpart. Even tough I think bootCamp will also be (a small part) on that HD.

Does switching regularly internal HD is a stupid idea? Will the internal HD slot suffer a lot from that crazy idea?

Can we install WinXp apps on an external drive, cutting the disk usage of WinXP to the smallest part possible?

I guess I'm just trying to figure out what to do with 2 internal SATA HD!

Confusely yours,

Moloko3000
Aug 17, 2006, 01:12 PM
Woupsie

reubs
Aug 22, 2006, 09:10 PM
So I'm trying to replace the RAM on my new macbook, and get down there and the middle screw is too tight, and it won't come out. The two outside screws came out with a little bit of work, but the middle just stayed there. I quit messing with it b/c I sure as heck didn't wan to strip it and screw myself forever.

Anyone have this problem so far? If so, what was your solution?

We'reGonnaWin
Sep 8, 2006, 01:26 PM
My Hitachi 5K160 arrived yesterday. Unfortunately, I missed the step about using a size 8 Torx screwdriver to remove the old drive from the bracket. I was still able to get the drive in the MacBook without the bracket, but I need to get the bracket off so I can put it in the 2.5" SATA enclosure that will be arriving today.

The drive seems to run fast...it was copying about 16MB/sec using SuperDuper! I selected 31 GB for my Windows partition with Boot Camp Assistant which made the partition 31.7 GB...just under the FAT32 limit. I don't know if I'll keep the partition as FAT32, but at least I have the option to and shouldn't need more than 32 GB for Windows.

Once I get everything up and running again, I'll be a very happy camper :D

Anyone have any luck trying to remove the hard drive from the Macbook without its bracket/pull-tab? I made the same mistake and I actually have to remove it now and don't know what to try. Popsicle sticks? Really narrow pliers?

bloodycape
Sep 19, 2006, 03:20 PM
I could not find this anywhere but replacing the hd in a MBP would that cause the sensor, or what ever it is called, when you drop your computer to mess up?

WildCowboy
Sep 19, 2006, 03:21 PM
I could not find this anywhere but replacing the hd in a MBP would that cause the sensor, or what ever it is called, when you drop your computer to mess up?

No...the sensor is separate from the hard drive.

skunk
Sep 19, 2006, 03:24 PM
Hi all,

I've just bought me a white MacBook 2.0ghz. Since I've been reading quite a lot on the subject before the purchase, I've also bought outside AppleStore 2 gb Ram and a New Seagate 7200 SATA 100gb HD. My question now is, with the original Mac 60gb HD, is it a good idea if a make it specically for WinXP while using the bigger one for OSX?

Since we cannot install BootCamp and furthermore WinXp on an External Drive (I have an USB2 drive enclosure with 100gb that woulda been great for that), the new HD would serve the purpose of operating OSX while not being overrun in Data usage by an WinXp counterpart. Even tough I think bootCamp will also be (a small part) on that HD.

Does switching regularly internal HD is a stupid idea? Will the internal HD slot suffer a lot from that crazy idea?

Can we install WinXp apps on an external drive, cutting the disk usage of WinXP to the smallest part possible?

I guess I'm just trying to figure out what to do with 2 internal SATA HD!

Confusely yours,Why don't you buy an enclosure for one of them and use it as an external drive? I would not recommend regularly swapping internal drives: the contacts are bound to get worn.

Aviator
Sep 19, 2006, 10:30 PM
First post here, long time lurker.

background:
My 3 year old Toshiba laptop died last week and it's now or never time for a Mac.

So, I'm going to go for a MacBook and I'm looking around at the hard dive options. I see that newegg, who I really like, has the Hitachi 5k160 for 194$ (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822145113) now, and I'm wondering if this is a good option over the Seagate counterpart (http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Seagate/ST9160821ASK/). Any opinions out there on the brands, I'm not opposed to paying a premium if the product has a lot more user support around here.

Secondly, I'm not too woried about replacing the hard drive physically. However, I'm wonding how I would go about getting OSX back onto the new dive in OEM spec, as in the spec that will come on the standard drive.

Thanks for any help.

Edit:
One last question, I went to crucial.com and see that they have the 2GB Ram (2x 1GB) for 347$. A quick newegg search turned up this, Corsair 2GB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145157), just wondering if anyone has any experience with this, or another good site for Ram.

skunk
Sep 20, 2006, 02:28 AM
First post here, long time lurker. Yo. Welcome. :)

Secondly, I'm not too woried about replacing the hard drive physically. However, I'm wonding how I would go about getting OSX back onto the new dive in OEM spec, as in the spec that will come on the standard drive.
1 Change the drive over.
2 Reinstall the OS using the included DVDs.

WildCowboy
Sep 20, 2006, 08:46 AM
So, I'm going to go for a MacBook and I'm looking around at the hard dive options. I see that newegg, who I really like, has the Hitachi 5k160 for 194$ (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822145113) now, and I'm wondering if this is a good option over the Seagate counterpart (http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Seagate/ST9160821ASK/). Any opinions out there on the brands, I'm not opposed to paying a premium if the product has a lot more user support around here.

I can't remember details, but I do remember hearing mixed reviews of the 5K160. I've always trusted Seagate for my hard drives, but that is quite the price premium for it.

One last question, I went to crucial.com and see that they have the 2GB Ram (2x 1GB) for 347$. A quick newegg search turned up this, Corsair 2GB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145157), just wondering if anyone has any experience with this, or another good site for Ram.

Avoid Crucial like the plague...they're overpriced and the have shady online pricing schemes. The PPC Macs were often picky about RAM, and thus people tended to shy away from cheap RAM. But the Intel Macs seem to be more accepting of bargain RAM, so people are getting away with it now. That said, I still recommend a middle ground of OWC (http://eshop.macsales.com) or DMS (http://www.datamem.com) for RAM...both are terrific companies.

Aviator
Sep 21, 2006, 08:42 PM
Well folks, I just pulled the trigger:

Macbook 2.0 (I don't care if they update this tomorrow. I'm pumped for my first mac and love the speed it offers me versus my three year old Toshiba 17")

2GB Ram, via OWC. Looked around and they have a great rep, good customer service and the right price.

160GB Seagate Momentus 2.5" SATA drive.

Oh yeah, I'm ready. Thanks for all the advice around here, I recieved lots of great advice and tons of excellent info. I'll see you all in the Macbook forum.:cool: