Guantanamo Prison Guards, Inmates Clash

[zimv20]

AP (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/19/ap/world/mainD8HMULPG1.shtml)


Prisoners clash with guards trying to stop detainee from committing suicide at Guantanamo prison

Prisoners wielding improvised weapons clashed with guards trying to stop a detainee from committing suicide at the U.S. prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, the military said Friday.

The fight occurred Thursday in a medium-security section of the camp as guards were responding to the fourth attempted suicide that day at the detention center on the U.S. Navy base, said Cmdr. Robert Durand.

Detainees used fans, light fixtures and other improvised weapons to attack the guards as they entered a communal living area to stop a prisoner who was trying to hang himself, Durand said.

Earlier in the day, three detainees in another part of the prison attempted suicide by swallowing prescription medicine they had been hoarding.

The detainees who took part in the clash with guards were moved to higher-security sections.

[...]

There have been 39 suicide attempts at Guantanamo since the prison opened in January 2002, the military said. At least 12 were by Juma'a Mohammed al-Dossary, a 32-year-old from Bahrain.

something seems off. thirty-nine suicide attempts in 52 months, yet there were 4 yesterday?

[solvs]

AP (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/19/ap/world/mainD8HMULPG1.shtml)


something seems off. thirty-nine suicide attempts in 52 months, yet there were 4 yesterday?
And at least 12 of those 39 were from the same guy. Agreed, something is up. Wonder how many of these people are actually guilty of something. Especially based on the fact that there aren't enough translators to go around.

[zimv20]

three more suicides today. reuters link (http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-06-10T185303Z_01_N10232278_RTRUKOC_0_US-SECURITY-GUANTANAMO.xml&archived=False)

Three Guantanamo detainees die in suicides: US army

MIAMI (Reuters) - Three foreign prisoners being held at the U.S. navy base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, died on Saturday in apparent suicides, the U.S. military said.

"Two Saudis and one Yemeni, each located in Camp 1, were found unresponsive and not breathing in their cells by guards," U.S. Southern Command said in a statement.

The military said attempts to resuscitate the detainees failed and they were pronounced dead by a physician at Guantanamo, which holds just under 500 foreigners captured mainly in the U.S. war against the Taliban in Afghanistan.

(more)

according to this august 2004 guardian article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/guantanamo/story/0,13743,1275696,00.html):

There have been "several hundred" suicide attempts, many more than suggested in official accounts, according to the report.

Camp authorities recorded around 32 attempts by prisoners to kill themselves before they stopped counting them and created a new category of "manipulative self-injurious behaviour", for which figures are not disclosed.

But the report suggests that attempted suicides are just the tip of the iceberg. It describes in vivid detail the deteriorating mental health of prisoners, including Britons, and alleges that guards have assaulted men who have serious health problems.

The men said that a high percentage of detainees were on anti-depressants and that at least 100 were observably mentally ill, as distinct from being depressed about their situation.

They added: "For at least 50 of those their behaviour is so disturbed as to show that they are no longer capable of rational thought or behaviour ...

"It is something that only a small child or animal might behave like ... These people were obviously seriously ill and yet we understand [from the military police] that they still get interrogated, and if they say someone is from al-Qaida then that information is used."

[skunk]

This Guantanamo thing is increasingly obscene.

[.Andy]

This is absolutely disgusting. Those deaths are on the hands of all of us in countries of the coalition of the willing. What the hell has western society come to where we don't care about our own governments breaking international law and blatantly abusing human rights. We are all cowards for not demanding loudly enough they are put on trial.

It angers me enought that I can easliy imagine how it is alienating and vindicating the actions of the next generation of suicide bombers.

[solvs]

Maybe at this point, they've just given up. They don't think they'll ever be freed or even go to trial. Maybe they think we're going to go all scorched Earth. Or that we just aren't going to do anything. I think I'd go nuts too. Especially for those who were guilty and wanted to be martyrs who are nuts anyway.

"Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers" indeed.

[Blue Velvet]

Maybe at this point, they've just given up. They don't think they'll ever be freed or even go to trial. Maybe they think we're going to go all scorched Earth...


No, none of those reasons apply at all.
In fact, it was an 'an act of asymmetric warfare waged against us'.

Thought I'd share that just in case you had any crazy ideas that these men were in any way mistreated.

[skunk]

No, none of those reasons apply at all.
In fact, it was an 'an act of asymmetric warfare waged against us'.

Thought I'd share that just in case you had any crazy ideas that these men were in any way mistreated.Pay no attention. After all, exactly this method of going mad is described in Al Qaeda training manuals.

[solvs]

In fact, it was an 'an act of asymmetric warfare waged against us'.
I know you're being sarcastic, but maybe this is an act of scorched Earth against us. They'd rather do themselves in than let us get anything out of them. Of course, if there were more suicide bomber types in there, you'd think they would have done this a long time ago. Or even immediately after being captured.

No, I gotta go with my original Occam's Razorish hypothesis that there's a lot more force being used than necessary.

[Blue Velvet]

No, I gotta go with my original Occam's Razorish hypothesis that there's a lot more force being used than necessary.

Or perhaps conversely, a complete and callous disregard for people's health and safety.

Isn't it odd that after attempting hunger-strikes that they had access to all these things that could easily be fashioned into nooses?

[BakedBeans]

Or perhaps conversely, a complete and callous disregard for people's health and safety.

Isn't it odd that after attempting hunger-strikes that they had access to all these things that could easily be fashioned into nooses?

So what are you insinuating exactly?

[Blue Velvet]

So what are you insinuating exactly?

I'm saying that these people with a prior history of self-harm should have been on some form of suicide watch. It happens in prisons here and elsewhere... to not do so is, at the very least, pure neglect. Whether there's something more sinister to it is a possibility that shouldn't be ignored.

[.Andy]

So what are you insinuating exactly?
Months on end in solitary confinement with sensory deprivation, no sunlight, beatings, sodomisation, sleep deprivation, electric shocks, constant loud music, beatings, 20 hour interrogation sessions, etc etc would be enough to make anyone want to top themselves, guilty or innocent, to escape that kind of hell. I bet we haven't heard the half of it either :(.

[zimv20]

AP (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_GUANTANAMO?SITE=1010WINS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)


Snow said it was during his daily intelligence briefing just afterward when the president voiced his concern over the incident and directed that the bodies be "treated humanely and with cultural sensitivity" to show respect for Muslim traditions regarding the dead.

oh, the irony.

[skunk]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5069230.stmGuantanamo suicides a 'PR move'

A top US official has described the suicides of three detainees at the US base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, as a "good PR move to draw attention".
Colleen Graffy told the BBC the deaths were part of a strategy and "a tactic to further the jihadi cause", but taking their own lives was unnecessary.

But lawyers say the men who hanged themselves had been driven by despair.

A military investigation into the deaths is under way, amid growing calls for the centre to be moved or closed.

Speaking to the BBC's Newshour programme, Ms Graffy, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Public Diplomacy, said the three men did not value their lives nor the lives of those around them.

Detainees had access to lawyers, received mail and had the ability to write to families, so had other means of making protests, she said, and it was hard to see why the men had not protested about their situation.

The men, two Saudis and a Yemeni, were found unresponsive and not breathing by guards on Saturday morning, said officials.

They were in separate cells in Camp One, the highest security section of the prison.

Despair

There have been dozens of suicide attempts since the camp was set up four years ago - but none successful until now.

Ken Roth, head of Human Rights Watch in New York, told the BBC the men had probably been driven by despair.

"These people are despairing because they are being held lawlessly," he said.

"There's no end in sight. They're not being brought before any independent judges. They're not being charged and convicted for any crime."

That view was supported by British Muslim Moazzam Begg who spent three years in Guantanamo. He said of the camp's inmates: "They're in a worse situation than convicted criminals and it's an act of desperation."

But earlier, the camp commander, Rear Adm Harris said he did not believe the men had killed themselves out of despair.

"They are smart. They are creative, they are committed," he said.

"They have no regard for life, either ours or their own. I believe this was not an act of desperation, but an act of asymmetrical warfare waged against us."

Calls for closure

US officials are facing growing international calls for the camp to be closed down.

"If it's perfectly legal and there's nothing going wrong there - well, why don't they have it in America and then the American court system can supervise it?" UK Constitutional Affairs Minister Harriet Harman told the BBC on Sunday.

But Ms Graffy said closing down Guantanamo was a "complicated process" which needed to consider what would happen to detainees if the centre was shut down.

On Friday, Mr Bush said he would "like to end Guantanamo", adding he believed the inmates "ought to be tried in courts here in the United States".Suicide is a "PR stunt"??????? Wtf are these guys on?

I refer to my post above:Pay no attention. After all, exactly this method of going mad is described in Al Qaeda training manuals.which was meant to be a satirical comment. You couldn't make this stuff up. Face it, guys, the US of A has been taken over by loonies.

[Dont Hurt Me]

If a Islamic extremist wants to hang himself I say give em a rope. In fact they should issue ropes to all of them with instructions on how to tie knots.

[skunk]

If a Islamic extremist wants to hang himself I say give em a rope. In fact they should issue ropes to all of them with instructions on how to tie knots.Get real, DHM. Half these "Islamic extremists" were picked up off the street and sold into captivity.

[Blue Velvet]

If a Islamic extremist wants to hang himself I say give em a rope. In fact they should issue ropes to all of them with instructions on how to tie knots.

Hold on just a second. These people have been not tried of anything, let alone found guilty. There have already been people released from Guantanamo who have been cleared of involvement in combat.

Let's flip the situation around and imagine US soldiers incarcerated overseas for years without trial and then 3 of them simultaneously commit suicide... can you imagine the White House calling that a PR stunt? No, I don't think so.

[Dont Hurt Me]

99% of those guys didnt get picked up for playing Bingo. Still I do agree they all deserve trials and ropes.:)

[calculus]

99% of those guys didnt get picked up for playing Bingo. Still I do agree they all deserve trials and ropes.:)
Oh dear dear dear...

[skunk]

99% of those guys didnt get picked up for playing Bingo.I don't suppose you can support that assertion in any meaningful way, can you?

[Dont Hurt Me]

I don't suppose you can support that assertion in any meaningful way, can you?
Muslims dont Gamble?

[skunk]

Muslims dont Gamble?Nice try, but I'm afraid they do.:)

[.Andy]

Muslims dont Gamble?
How the hell can you even joke about your country's abuse of human rights?

[Dont Hurt Me]

There isnt a country or govt on this planet that is innocent.

[Stella]

Its a shame the americans now apply "guilty until found innocent"...

I thought the story about the suicides "PR act / Act of war" pretty disgusting.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5069230.stm

How much lower with pitiful excuses can you get?

These captives have little hope of being given a trial - let alone let free ( trial first, if found innocent, freed, of course ).

[.Andy]

There isnt a country or govt on this planet that is innocent.
Who said there was and what does it have to do with this thread?

[Dont Hurt Me]

Who said there was and what does it have to do with this thread?
Just making a point, Govts all suck but they should be giving a trial. There have been innocent people mistaken and thats a travisty.

[skunk]

Just making a point, Govts all suck but they should be giving a trial. There have been innocent people mistaken and thats a travisty.You mean all govts suck so yours might as well suck properly?

[Dont Hurt Me]

You mean all govts suck so yours might as well suck properly?No at the moment ours seems to suck worse.:mad:

[scem0]

I don't get it... who is benefitting from this? It's almost like the government is trying to look inhumane.

e

[.Andy]

I don't get it... who is benefitting from this? It's almost like the government is trying to look inhumane.

e
I think they chose the only route that could have taken on this one. It was either admit it and coat the truth with lashings of political spin, or try and cover it up and have it inevitably leak and bite them later.

There's something decidedly evil about illegally detaining and torturing people for years and then acting indignant when they are driven to suicide out of desperation. How anyone can think treating people this way will bring an end to the desperation of terrorism is beyond me.

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/176/r20130495003du.jpg

[solvs]

Or perhaps conversely, a complete and callous disregard for people's health and safety.
I was being subtly facetious... but yeah, pretty much.

I refer to my post above:which was meant to be a satirical comment.
As was mine, but somehow I figured they'd try something like this. Not that it makes any sense. Like I said, if it was, why didn't they just do this a long time ago?

As if we needed any more bad press to prove we have become what we claim to fight against.

[mactastic]

99% of those guys didnt get picked up for playing Bingo. Still I do agree they all deserve trials and ropes.:)
So how come we don't have any convictions, yet several "oops we're sorry" releases?

I know you know how to calculate 99%, and those numbers ain't it.

[Dont Hurt Me]

So how come we don't have any convictions, yet several "oops we're sorry" releases?

I know you know how to calculate 99%, and those numbers ain't it.
Bush is waiting to hear from the supreme court as to try them in a military court or civilian one. Being that they dont wear the uniform of any country. So its a waiting game while the lawyers, judges and politicians figure it out. It may play well to the liberals that these are all innocent squeeky clean Muslims but somehow I just dont think so.

[skunk]

Bush is waiting to hear from the supreme court as to try them in a military court or civilian one. Being that they dont wear the uniform of any country. So its a waiting game while the lawyers, judges and politicians figure it out. It may play well to the liberals that these are all innocent squeeky clean Muslims but somehow I just dont think so.Dream on. If they had anything on these guys, don't you think they would have said something?

[mactastic]

Bush is waiting to hear from the supreme court as to try them in a military court or civilian one. Being that they dont wear the uniform of any country. So its a waiting game while the lawyers, judges and politicians figure it out. It may play well to the liberals that these are all innocent squeeky clean Muslims but somehow I just dont think so.
No, Bush is dodging the courts about the power of the POTUS to incarcerate without public evidence or trial.

I'm not saying these are all squeaky clean Muslims, but there have been a disturbing amount of people released with no charges, and no public trials.

[zimv20]

we can all breathe a sigh of relief. looks like the pentagon has solved the suicide problem (http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002687978):

Pentagon Orders U.S. Reporters to Exit Guantanamo

In the aftermath of the three suicides at the notorious Guantanamo prison facility in Cuba last Saturday, reporters with the Los Angeles Times and the Miami Herald were ordered by the office of Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld to leave the island today.

A third reporter and a photographer with the Charlotte Observer were given the option of staying until Saturday but, E&P has learned, were told that their access to the prison camp was now denied. An E&P "Pressing Issues" column on Tuesday covered an eye-opening dispatch by the Observer's Michael Gordon carried widely in other papers. He had listened in, with permission, as the camp commander gave frank instructions to staff on how to respond to the suicides.

A Pentagon spokesman, J.D. Gordon, confirmed the order to leave the island this morning, but told E&P it was unrelated to the stories produced by the journalists, while admitting that Gordon's piece had caused "controversy." He asserted that the move was related to other media outlets threatening to sue if they were not allowed in. He did not say why, instead of expelling the reporters already there, the Pentagon did not simply let the others in, beyond citing new security concerns.

(more)

[scem0]

we can all breathe a sigh of relief. looks like the pentagon has solved the suicide problem (http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002687978):


<--- throws up.

e