Milk and Mass Propaganda

[scem0]

I just want to know everyone's thoughts on Milk. It doesn't take much research to find that milk does not "do the body good". Milk has very few health benefits going for it and increases the risk of contracting many types of cancers.

Milk (and arguably the rest of the dairy industry) is the poster example of propaganda. Ask any lay-person is milk is healthy, they will tell you it is. Ask legitimate health experts what they think about milk, you'll get a completely different answer - and it won't be a good one.

Google around, you'll see what I'm talking about.

e

[iGary]

I just want to know everyone's thoughts on Milk. It doesn't take much research to find that milk does not "do the body good". Milk has very few health benefits going for it and increases the risk of contracting many types of cancers.

Milk (and arguably the rest of the dairy industry) is the poster example of propaganda. Ask any lay-person is milk is healthy, they will tell you it is. Ask legitimate health experts what they think about milk, you'll get a completely different answer - and it won't be a good one.

Google around, you'll see what I'm talking about.

e

I stay away from it. Even organic milk is suspicious. My daily supplement has the caclium I need, as does the bread I usually have with breakfast.

[Black&Tan]

We go through about 2 gallons a week. Our pediatrician wants us to use 2%.

[scem0]

I stay away from it. Even organic milk is suspicious. My daily supplement has the caclium I need, as does the bread I usually have with breakfast.

you're right, organic brands are suspicious. Horizon and Organic Valley have both used some bad business tactics to try and get ahead of each other - and 90% of organic milk bought is bought from them. Horizon is trying to degrade organic food standards to save themselves money. I'd be extra wary of them.

e

[Queso]

Alpro soya milk is the way to go. That's the one Starbucks uses in it's soy lattés. Thank God!!

Keep your dairy intake low. A little is good for you. Too much is very bad, especially for women.

[mactastic]

There is no good substitute for actual real milk in many cases. I prefer non-fat for things like cereal or if I drink it straight. But I keep the whole-milk stuff around most of the time for cooking.

[vniow]

I don't care what you say, I'm not giving up my milk chocolate and ice cream!

[Danksi]

I don't care what you say, I'm not giving up my milk chocolate and ice cream!

... yeah, there's no way I'm drinking 5-15 cups of tea and coffee a day, without milk!

I thought milk was important for youngsters growth, mother's milk being obvious, but then less so during 20's+

[CanadaRAM]

I just want to know everyone's thoughts on Milk. It doesn't take much research to find that milk does not "do the body good". Milk has very few health benefits going for it and increases the risk of contracting many types of cancers.

Milk (and arguably the rest of the dairy industry) is the poster example of propaganda. Ask any lay-person is milk is healthy, they will tell you it is. Ask legitimate health experts what they think about milk, you'll get a completely different answer - and it won't be a good one.

Google around, you'll see what I'm talking about.

e
I would like to know everyone's thoughts on the examples of anti-milk-crusader propaganda.

Google around, you'll see lots of it. Including shrill, un-substantiated and un-qualified claims of milk causing many types of cancers.

[aristobrat]

http://www.milksucks.com

After you haven't had dairy for awhile, your body becomes lactose intolerant. Coincidence? :)

[aristobrat]

... yeah, there's no way I'm drinking 5-15 cups of tea and coffee a day, without milk!

I thought milk was important for youngsters growth, mother's milk being obvious, but then less so during 20's+
There are lots of flavored soy products that work great in tea/coffe. :)

The late Dr. Benjamin Spock, America's leading authority on child care, spoke out against feeding cow's milk to children, saying it can cause anemia, allergies, and insulin-dependent diabetes and in the long term, will set kids up for obesity and heart disease, America's number one cause of death.

[Kingsly]

I would like to know everyone's thoughts on the examples of anti-milk-crusader propaganda.

Google around, you'll see lots of it. Including shrill, un-substantiated and un-qualified claims of milk causing many types of cancers.

I was under the impression that milk contains almost all the nutrients necessary for sustaining life, which would explain why mammals nourish their babies with the stuff.
People have been drinking milk since the dawn of time, and only recently with the introduction of all that chemical crap they put in food, are we experiencing plagues of obesity, high cholesterol, etc.
In my opinion, pour it on (no pun intended).

[vniow]

There are lots of flavored soy products that work great in tea/coffe. :)

There's soy ice cream as well, but it often doesn't come in quite the variety that cow milk ice cream does. I only drink soy milk and can't stand cow but ice cream and chocolate like I mentioned above is a different story.

I was under the impression that milk contains almost all the nutrients necessary for sustaining life, which would explain why mammals nourish their babies with the stuff.

The key word here is babies. There's a reason why many people grow up to be lactose intolerant, their bodies grew out of having to need the stuff in order to sustain themselves.

[WildCowboy]

Low-fat chocolate milk is one of the best recovery drinks for athletes. It contains the proper carb/protein ratios for both refueling and rebuilding muscle. It's better for you than the ridiculously-priced "recovery drinks" that are saturating the market these days.

Good enough reason for me...

[Kingsly]

The key word here is babies. There's a reason why many people grow up to be lactose intolerant, their bodies grew out of having to need the stuff in order to sustain themselves.Lactose intolerance is the inability to digest significant amounts of lactose, the major sugar found in milk. Lactose intolerance is caused by a shortage of the enzyme lactase, which is produced by the cells that line the small intestine. Lactase breaks down milk sugar into two simpler forms of sugar called glucose and galactose, which are then absorbed into the bloodstream. Not all people deficient in lactase have the symptoms commonly associated with lactose intolerance, but those who do are said to have lactose intolerance.

People sometimes confuse lactose intolerance with cow’s milk intolerance because the symptoms are often the same. However, lactose intolerance and cow’s milk intolerance are not related. Being intolerant to cow’s milk is an allergic reaction triggered by the immune system. Lactose intolerance is a problem caused by the digestive system.

Some causes of lactose intolerance are well known. Primary lactase deficiency is a condition that develops over time. After about age 2 the body begins to produce less lactase, though most people will not notice symptoms until they are much older.

Secondary lactase deficiency occurs when injury to the small intestine or certain digestive diseases reduce the amount of lactase a person produces. These diseases include celiac disease, inflammatory bowel disease, and Crohn’s disease.

Researchers have identified a genetic link for lactose intolerance. Some people are born with a likelihood of developing primary lactase deficiency because it has been passed to them genetically (inherited from their parents). This discovery may be useful in developing a diagnostic test to identify people with the condition.

Harvard University researchers recently examined the relationship between dairy consumption, obesity, and factors leading to the development of type 2 diabetes in young adults. For this analysis, more than 3,000 young adults from 4 US cities completed a questionnaire that documented lifestyle habits, including smoking status, physical activity, and diet. A physical exam and blood tests measured blood pressure, cholesterol levels, blood sugar levels, and body fat.

Study participants were monitored over a 10-year period, and were diagnosed with insulin resistance syndrome if they had at least two of the following symptoms: high blood sugar, obesity, high blood pressure, and a combination of low HDL cholesterol and high triglycerides. Among the volunteers who were somewhat overweight, there was a significantly lower incidence of IRS characteristics --- obesity, high blood pressure, abnormal blood sugar levels --- in those who ate more dairy foods. Those who ate at least 5 servings per day (of milk, cheese, yogurt, and dairy-based desserts) reduced their odds of developing IRS by 72%, even after taking into consideration other dietary and lifestyle factors that affect the likelihood of developing IRS.

[SamIchi]

Interesting, I ever really liked cow milk, I do enjoy soy chocolate milk though. Ice cream and pizza is something I can't give up. If they find a soy alternative to these foods, I'd consider but for now, I'll stick with the regular stuff.

[scem0]

I was under the impression that milk contains almost all the nutrients necessary for sustaining life, which would explain why mammals nourish their babies with the stuff.

Correction: Cows nourish baby cows with cow's milk. The milk that comes out of a cow is different than the milk that comes out of a human or an ape, etc. We are the only mammals that drink cow's milk other than cows. They also only drink it when they are babies, not when they grow up.

People have been drinking milk since the dawn of time, and only recently with the introduction of all that chemical crap they put in food, are we experiencing plagues of obesity, high cholesterol, etc.

Exactly. I'm more anti-commercial milk than the substance itself. I'm not against mother's breastfeeding their children, or against drinking clean, raw cow's milk (although I personally would not do that). I'm against drinking the homogenized, hormone/steroid pumped, chemical filled milk that you buy at the grocery store which is unhealthy.

Oh and I just want to add that I'm advocating that the whole world cut themselves off from milk completely. I'm a lover of dairy myself - I love pizza, pastries, etc. I don't really like milk anymore by itself, but it's great in cooking. I like my tea black, but sometimes it's nice to have when making a dessert chai :). All I'm saying is that people should be aware of how bad milk is nutritionally, and they should limit the amount that they drink.

e

[Lau]

I think milk is totally vile - I drink black coffee and black tea and on the rare occasion I have cereal I just put water and fruit on it. If I do drink milk, I can feel it at the back of my throat and I feel crappy all day. So anything that makes milk look bad is fine by me, because I don't think it does me any good.

Having said that, I do enjoy a nice piece of cheese. :) I'm not sure I should, given the above reaction to milk, but, dammit, I do love cheese.

[Kingsly]

I'm against drinking the homogenized, hormone/steroid pumped, chemical filled milk that you buy at the grocery store which is unhealthy.
Ditto.

[scem0]

I think milk is totally vile - I drink black coffee and black tea and on the rare occasion I have cereal I just put water and fruit on it. If I do drink milk, I can feel it at the back of my throat and I feel crappy all day. So anything that makes milk look bad is fine by me, because I don't think it does me any good.

Having said that, I do enjoy a nice piece of cheese. :) I'm not sure I should, given the above reaction to milk, but, dammit, I do love cheese.

haha, I bet I'm the same way.

I haven't had plain milk in years, but when I cut it out of my diet along with all other dairy and wheat I dropped 40 pounds and felt better than ever. I suspect that if I were to drink a glass of milk right now I'd get a tummy ache.

But I'm totally with you on the cheese. Mmmmmm, I could eat cheese all day long! Same goes for yogurt :).

e

[saunders45]

I'll file this under the same umbrella as "Meat is bad for you. Don't eat animals."

[LethalWolfe]

http://www.milksucks.com

After you haven't had dairy for awhile, your body becomes lactose intolerant. Coincidence? :)
Hey, a website brought to you by PETA. I'm sure it lacks any sort of inflammatory, sensationalistic, manipulated, and/or self-serving "information."


Lethal

[Kingsly]

Hey, a website brought to you by PETA. I'm sure it lacks any sort of inflammatory, sensationalistic, manipulated, and/or self-serving "information."


Lethal
Once again, ditto.

[blackfox]

My 2 cents on the subject of milk - feel free to disagree with any/all of my points...

1. Nature seems to suggest that many young feed exclusively on milk until they are weaned away from it by other foods. Humans are no different in this regard. The natural dissapearance of the milk-digesting enzyme (lactase) in many adults seems to suggest that we as adults have no more need for milk than adult tigers or chimpanzees.

2. Although Milk is a complete protein food, it also contains fat, which means it does not combine well with other food, except itself. This does not pose a problem as a baby, reliant solely on milk - but as an adult, it can pose problems.

Milk curdles immediately upon hitting the stomach, so if other food is present, the curds will likely coagulate around these food particles and insulate them from exposure to gastric juices - perhaps delaying digestion long enough for putrefaction. So if you must drink milk, drink it by itself. If taken alone, it is an excellent food.

3. The above applies to raw, unpasteurized milk. Pasteurized milk is crap. Pasteurization destroys it's natural enzymes and proteins. Raw milk has the enzymes lactase and lipase, which allow the milk to digest itself. Pasteurized milk has destroyed these enzymes, making milk difficult for it to be digested by humans, even babies. More importantly, perhaps, is that the alteration of proteins inthe milk make many of the mineral elements in milk (such as Calcium) largely unassimilable.

4. Until the 20th Century, most of humanity drank raw milk. In the US, raw milk is illegal is most states. It is possible, though not necessarily true , that this was done for profit. It is far more profitable to pasteurize milk and extend it's shelf-life. Pasteurization also makes it possible to use milk from less-than-healthy animals, as the pasteurization process kills most of the harmful germs in that milk. This is also a potentially cost-cutting procedure.

Needless to say, I stay away from pasteurized milk. It actually tastes pretty bad too. I remember raw milk from growing up in England, and all I can say is that if you have had it, you will probably find pasteurized milk an extremely poor substitute.

FWIW...

[CanadaRAM]

American Dietetic Association
(http://www.eatright.org/cps/rde/xchg/ada/hs.xsl/advocacy_adar0202_ENU_HTML.htm)
"Food and Nutrition Misinformation on the Internet

The Internet is a rapidly expanding source of food and nutrition information. Forty-six percent of those participating in a 2005 Food Marketing Institute survey said they used the Internet on a regular basis. Although people are increasingly relying on the Internet for nutrition information,(10) consumers must be informed that the accuracy of information appearing on Web sites is not governed by any regulatory agency. As a result, sites featuring sound, science-based content coexist with sites containing questionable, inaccurate, or alarming nutrition information promoted by individuals and groups supporting unscientific views."

British Dietetic Assn. (http://www.bda.uk.com/latest-food-facts.php)
Dieticians of Canada (http://www.dietitians.ca/public/content/eat_well_live_well/english/faqs_tips_facts/fact_sheets/index.asp?fn=view&id=1159&idstring=6504%7C6467%7C6038%7C6040%7C1159%7C5758%7C5760%7C5762%7C5764%7C5766%7C4021%7C4032%7C4033%7C 2701%7C2719%7C1047%7C2528%7C1357%7C986%7C2318%7C2084%7C2088%7C2357%7C2540%7C1350%7C1349%7C1331%7C253 7%7C2538%7C1022%7C1017%7C1427%7C2518%7C966%7C1293%7C2383%7C2384%7C2523%7C2524%7C1093%7C1035%7C2356%7 C2451%7C1426%7C2359%7C2324%7C950%7C1358%7C1267%7C1032%7C1092%7C1178%7C996%7C2358%7C2319%7C1151%7C252 6%7C2520%7C1329%7C1288%7C1102%7C1197%7C1198%7C987%7C2527%7C2546%7C2525%7C1082%7C1296)
Nicholas Institute for Sports Medicine (http://www.nismat.org/nutricor/healthydiet.html)
National Cancer Institute (http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics) has no contra-indications
- the only studies of cancer that involved milk that I could find showed that people who grew up in US and Russian states where and when atomic weapons testing took place, had higher levels of thyroid cancer, which was linked to radioactive iodine ingested with milk (presumably from cows grazing on contaminated pastureland) and noted that the incidence dropped with the cessation of testing.
American Institute for Cancer Research (http://www.aicr.org/site/PageServer?pagename=dc_home) has no contraindication for milk, and includes milk-based recipes in its recommendations


Of course, it is true to say that millions of people don't tolerate milk. If you don't then it isn;t a good food choice for you. If you do, though, the fact that someone else is intolerant it not reason to stop consuming milk.

Office of Disease Prevention and Health Promotion (http://www.healthfinder.gov/news/newsstory.asp?docid=527247)
There are studies that present weak evidence of drinking large amounts of whole milk (and not any other type) with increased ovarian cancer. "However, since the association was a weak one, the new report is no reason to stop drinking milk in moderation, the researchers note.... Although [whole] milk consumption may increase the risk of ovarian cancer, this cancer is relatively uncommon. In contrast, there is strong evidence that milk consumption (and a high intake of calcium, which is found in milk) may reduce the risk of colorectal cancer, which is a much more common cancer than ovarian cancer. Consumption of low-fat milk might also lower the risk for other diseases, such as type 2 diabetes and cardiovascular disease.""

[amateurmacfreak]

I hate milk b/c of all the propaganda crap.
That's why I very rarely drink it.

I'm still sad to here that Horizon is bad. :confused: My family drinks their milk, and if they're trying to degrade organic standards.... :mad:

[Kingsly]

American Dietetic Association
(http://www.eatright.org/cps/rde/xchg/ada/hs.xsl/advocacy_adar0202_ENU_HTML.htm)
"Food and Nutrition Misinformation on the Internet

The Internet is a rapidly expanding source of food and nutrition information. Forty-six percent of those participating in a 2005 Food Marketing Institute survey said they used the Internet on a regular basis. Although people are increasingly relying on the Internet for nutrition information,(10) consumers must be informed that the accuracy of information appearing on Web sites is not governed by any regulatory agency. As a result, sites featuring sound, science-based content coexist with sites containing questionable, inaccurate, or alarming nutrition information promoted by individuals and groups supporting unscientific views."

British Dietetic Assn. (http://www.bda.uk.com/latest-food-facts.php)
Dieticians of Canada (http://www.dietitians.ca/public/content/eat_well_live_well/english/faqs_tips_facts/fact_sheets/index.asp?fn=view&id=1159&idstring=6504%7C6467%7C6038%7C6040%7C1159%7C5758%7C5760%7C5762%7C5764%7C5766%7C4021%7C4032%7C4033%7C 2701%7C2719%7C1047%7C2528%7C1357%7C986%7C2318%7C2084%7C2088%7C2357%7C2540%7C1350%7C1349%7C1331%7C253 7%7C2538%7C1022%7C1017%7C1427%7C2518%7C966%7C1293%7C2383%7C2384%7C2523%7C2524%7C1093%7C1035%7C2356%7 C2451%7C1426%7C2359%7C2324%7C950%7C1358%7C1267%7C1032%7C1092%7C1178%7C996%7C2358%7C2319%7C1151%7C252 6%7C2520%7C1329%7C1288%7C1102%7C1197%7C1198%7C987%7C2527%7C2546%7C2525%7C1082%7C1296)
Nicholas Institute for Sports Medicine (http://www.nismat.org/nutricor/healthydiet.html)
National Cancer Institute (http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics) has no contra-indications
- the only studies of cancer that involved milk that I could find showed that people who grew up in US and Russian states where and when atomic weapons testing took place, had higher levels of thyroid cancer, which was linked to radioactive iodine ingested with milk (presumably from cows grazing on contaminated pastureland) and noted that the incidence dropped with the cessation of testing.
American Institute for Cancer Research (http://www.aicr.org/site/PageServer?pagename=dc_home) has no contraindication for milk, and includes milk-based recipes in its recommendations


Of course, it is true to say that millions of people don't tolerate milk. If you don't then it isn;t a good food choice for you. If you do, though, the fact that someone else is intolerant it not reason to stop consuming milk.

Office of Disease Prevention and Health Promotion (http://www.healthfinder.gov/news/newsstory.asp?docid=527247)
There are studies that present weak evidence of drinking large amounts of whole milk (and not any other type) with increased ovarian cancer. "However, since the association was a weak one, the new report is no reason to stop drinking milk in moderation, the researchers note.... Although [whole] milk consumption may increase the risk of ovarian cancer, this cancer is relatively uncommon. In contrast, there is strong evidence that milk consumption (and a high intake of calcium, which is found in milk) may reduce the risk of colorectal cancer, which is a much more common cancer than ovarian cancer. Consumption of low-fat milk might also lower the risk for other diseases, such as type 2 diabetes and cardiovascular disease.""

CanadaRAM, I like your style.

Despite what sensationalists would have you believe, facts are good for you.

[Stampyhead]

Until the 20th Century, most of humanity drank raw milk. In the US, raw milk is illegal is most states. It is possible, though not necessarily true , that this was done for profit. It is far more profitable to pasteurize milk and extend it's shelf-life. Pasteurization also makes it possible to use milk from less-than-healthy animals, as the pasteurization process kills most of the harmful germs in that milk. This is also a potentially cost-cutting procedure.
We lived in Salt Lake City for a while when I was a kid and there was a dairy not far from our house where we would go to buy raw milk. Sometimes, if you went early enough in the morning, it would still be warm from being in the cow! (shudder...)
I never really liked milk and I don't drink it at all now as an adult. Although I haven't done much research on the subject myself, I truly believe that milk is intended for babies and should not be consumed by anyone old enough to eat solid foods. Calcium can be found in plenty of other foods, like bananas. These are just my opinions, however, and are not based on any sold scientific research. They are also not meant to dissuade anyone from drinking milk, should they so desire. To each his/her own.

[LethalWolfe]

We lived in Salt Lake City for a while when I was a kid and there was a dairy not far from our house where we would go to buy raw milk. Sometimes, if you went early enough in the morning, it would still be warm from being in the cow! (shudder...)
I never really liked milk and I don't drink it at all now as an adult. Although I haven't done much research on the subject myself, I truly believe that milk is intended for babies and should not be consumed by anyone old enough to eat solid foods. Calcium can be found in plenty of other foods, like bananas. These are just my opinions, however, and are not based on any sold scientific research. They are also not meant to dissuade anyone from drinking milk, should they so desire. To each his/her own.
Your pretty much unfounded opinion has been noted. ;)


Lethal

[scem0]

my sister is currently attending a gourmet cooking school in NYC and they are very pro-raw milk. I've never had the stuff, myself, but I'd like to try it someday.

e

[rickvanr]

Well I love milk. 2% (or 1% if its chocolate milk), it's yummy. I'm also a big fan of most diary products.

Cheese, ice cream, sour cream, etc..

[njmac]

I occasionally drink raw goat milk and it tastes really great plus I make (raw) goat cheese as a hobby. Raw milk is the best if you have it available to you to drink and absolutely 100% neccessary for cheese making. I like raw yogurt too.

I do buy my kids organic milk. I know the controversy about it but its still better than feeding them milk filled with hormones and pesticides.

I can see not drinking a glass of milk, but I would miss ice cream and bechamel and many other recipes that include milk plus I do like milk on cereal.

[adk]

Can anybody give me a link to information on milk's benfits/risks from a respectable source? I'm not going to believe what PETA has to say about milk, they use about as much propaganda as mao did.

[Koodauw]

Correction: Cows nourish baby cows with cow's milk.

aren't we all little heifers?

I like the stuff, so I drink it. Course I do live in Wisconsin, so it practically law here.

[Leareth]

two points : milk is made for babies to drink before they can eat other stuff
two: most adult people do like dairy products even if they sometimes dont know they are consuming them, just read the nutrition labels of foods , how often do you come across the ingredient "milk solids" where you would never expects it, like beef jerky, sausages, crackers etc. we are not going to stop consuming milk as adults...

I dont like drinking commercial milk that comes from medicated cows, the medication gets excreted in to the milk and we consume it. Plus pasturized milk is "dead" anyway.
Go for cheese made from raw milk or yoghurt made with bioactive ingredients... not necessarily good for you but better.

[sushi]

I grew up on the farm. Worked at a dairy farm in HS.

Still drink milk.

Raw/Whole milk is great when it is fresh.

Unfortunately today, many cows are injected or fed chemicals that end up in our food supply. Same holds true for beef.

I've tried soy milk and other alternatives. None taste as good to me. So I think that I will stick with cows milk but watch my intake amount as I get older.

[iTwitch]

... yeah, there's no way I'm drinking 5-15 cups of tea and coffee a day, without milk!


Hear, hear.

In other news:

scem0 trampled by rampaging herd of dairy cows.

[Abstract]

Scientists everywhere should be trying to find alternative ways to make cheese.

If they had a pizza place that used only soy milk cheese in their pizza, I'd shop there. And I'm curious about soy ice cream. I haven't had it because it's expensive and I don't think I could afford it being a student, but I guess just once wouldn't be so bad.

[iSaint]

Hear, hear.

In other news:

scem0 trampled by rampaging herd of dairy cows.

It's the Running of the Bull from the mouth!:eek: :D

Skim for me. Switched to skim over 10 years ago and love it. Couldn't have cookies without it!

[takao]

i don't know if switching to soy milk is any better since more than 1/3 of all soy in the USA is genetically manipulated ;)

well everything in moderation.. i mostly consume my milk in the form of cheese nowadays and only from time to time a cacao or cereals with milk (and i buy 3.5 % fat milk .. it's bad enough that it is homogenized and pasteurized)

but injecting hormones and antibioticas is much more regulated/banned around here so it's not that bad

[Queso]

i don't know if switching to soy milk is any better since more than 1/3 of all soy in the USA is genetically manipulated ;)

One more reason to love living in the EU. GM soya is banned here.

I'm not totally against dairy BTW. I love manchego cheese, even though that's from sheep rather than cows, and eat a lot of greek yoghurt. I just think that this idea we need milk in large quantities is one of those post-WW2 things like "meat with every meal" that just ended up causing as many problems as benefits. Apes in the wild mostly eat plants. I think we're supposed to follow their example.

[CHAOS STEP]

Apes in the wild mostly eat plants. I think we're supposed to follow their example.


Apes also throw their poo around :D

[Queso]

Apes also throw their poo around :D

So do some humans if certain websites are to be believed :D

[Boggle]

I just want to know everyone's thoughts on Milk. It doesn't take much research to find that milk does not "do the body good". Milk has very few health benefits going for it and increases the risk of contracting many types of cancers.

Milk (and arguably the rest of the dairy industry) is the poster example of propaganda. Ask any lay-person is milk is healthy, they will tell you it is. Ask legitimate health experts what they think about milk, you'll get a completely different answer - and it won't be a good one.

Google around, you'll see what I'm talking about.

e

I don't believe you want to hear about anybody's thoughts. I'm out and out saying that you just wanted to tell ppl how crap milk is. So stop pretending you want some kind of debate, when you just want to promote a specific POV. And I agree w/ you that milk is not healthy. I just don't think you're being honest about your intentions.

Alpro soya milk is the way to go. That's the one Starbucks uses in it's soy lattés. Thank God!!

Keep your dairy intake low. A little is good for you. Too much is very bad, especially for women.


1. Milk (basically all dairy) isn't great for the body. And 1 + 1 = 2.
2. Therre is not such thing as "soy milk" it's soy juice.
3. "I don't know a lot, but I know you need a breast for milk." - Lewis Black.
4. Soy isn't what's good for you. It's not being a fat lazy slob that's good for you. It all comes back to being an endotherm. Insulation w/ balanced ventilation powered by circulation, regulated by metabolism...just like ppl and their goddamn overheated MBPs.

[Queso]

Ahem....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coconut_milk

[taytho]

i am going to have to go ahead and chime in that worrying about milk is the LEAST of our countries concerns..... kids drinking milk is probably one of the best things most of them put int their bodies throughout the day in most households and schools. At least milk is natural and not over processed flash frozen sodium saturated machine made "foods" they lijke to snack on because that is all that is advertised. give a kid the choice between a glass of milk and a can of coke and i would hope that choosing the milk wouldnt be something you would frown upon.

[scem0]

i am going to have to go ahead and chime in that worrying about milk is the LEAST of our countries concerns..... kids drinking milk is probably one of the best things most of them put int their bodies throughout the day in most households and schools. At least milk is natural and not over processed flash frozen sodium saturated machine made "foods" they lijke to snack on because that is all that is advertised. give a kid the choice between a glass of milk and a can of coke and i would hope that choosing the milk wouldnt be something you would frown upon.

oh sure, I totally agree, especially when talking about children. But still, why choose between the lesser of two evils? There are plenty of unsweetened beverages for your children :). And if your child must have something sweet give 'em orange juice. Orange juice is calcium loaded, tastes great, Vitamin C loaded, etc.

e

[scem0]

I don't believe you want to hear about anybody's thoughts. I'm out and out saying that you just wanted to tell ppl how crap milk is. So stop pretending you want some kind of debate, when you just want to promote a specific POV. And I agree w/ you that milk is not healthy. I just don't think you're being honest about your intentions.

Exactly, because I have so much to gain by pushing my anti-milk agenda. The world will be mine soon!

e

[aristobrat]

i don't know if switching to soy milk is any better since more than 1/3 of all soy in the USA is genetically manipulated ;)
The soy milk that I've had (8th Continent and Silk) have pretty big sections on their box/jugs that explain how they don't use any genetically modified soybeans.

[aristobrat]

Hey, a website brought to you by PETA. I'm sure it lacks any sort of inflammatory, sensationalistic, manipulated, and/or self-serving "information."
I know, it's almost as bad as the "official" dairy information that we get from our gov't after the US dairy industry lobbyists have done their thing. :rolleyes:

[aristobrat]

At least milk is natural and not over processed flash frozen sodium saturated machine made "foods" they lijke to snack on because that is all that is advertised.
Natural?

If the dairies can find a way to keep the hormones and antibiotics that they shoot into the cows out of the milk that the cows produce, then maybe...

[Boggle]

Exactly, because I have so much to gain by pushing my anti-milk agenda. The world will be mine soon!

e

Oh get a grip, Dr. Evil. It was all I could do in the first post not point out how stupid your assertion about increased cancer risk is. BTW, I noticed you didn't respond to CanadaRam's refute of your ridiculous cancer argument, but you had time to be glib w/ me.

You certainly didn't have anything to say about the daily fat intake requirements of kids compared to full grown people, or the ederly. Do you even understand the importance and impact of fat intake on people at different stages of their lives? Or what about the insulating properties of whole milk vs. 2% & 1%? And why do nutrionists recommend people who live in different climates consume different amounts of milk? Do you have scientific evidence to present on the issue of the effects of bile on the nutrional components of milk during and post digestion? What about the pressure levels in the GI system?

It's all part of most studies on milk. So your "legitimate health experts" certainly put forth their findings on these subjects. Oh forget it, I can't believe I got this worked [up] over the comments of someone who thinks "googling" is research.

[nbs2]

Well, I'll be. We have reached the point where something like milk is well on its way to Angry Place™

On a side note, I like milk, ice cream, yogurt and most derivations. I'm not a huge fan of cheese, but I like it well enough. Just about the only think I like better with less milk is chocolate (big dark chocolate fan - I look forward to eventually trying 90% after I build my tolerance for 85%...I'm at 72% right now).

[scem0]

eek Boggle, all I was saying is that I made this thread without any motives. I have the opinion I have because I went to a lecture a couple years ago in Austin, Texas about the subject. It concentrated on Monsanto and BGH's, but it covered it all.

I'm actually largely in agreement with you about internet sources, etc. And if you haven't noticed, I haven't linked to any sources on the internet. That is also why I did not respond to CanadaRAM. There's a million sources on the internet with a million different arguments and points of view. I could find sources to refute his sources, and we could go back and forth for an eternity - I'd rather not play that game. I simply encouraged people to google it to see that the opinion that commercial milk from the grocery store is good for you might not be true. That's all.

The intention of this thread was not to prove anyone wrong, just to raise some awareness. If I had wanted to change opinions I would have found some sources that I believe to be credible and I would have linked to those sources (which are not PETA, mind you). I'll let people do their research themselves. If people are of the opinion that drinking 6 glasses of milk a day at age 35 is good for them, and they want to do it for the rest of their lives then that is their decision. I'd just hate for someone to do that without educating themselves.

e :)

[Abstract]

Oh get a grip, Dr. Evil. It was all I could do in the first post not point out how stupid your assertion about increased cancer risk is. BTW, I noticed you didn't respond to CanadaRam's refute of your ridiculous cancer argument, but you had time to be glib w/ me.

You certainly didn't have anything to say about the daily fat intake requirements of kids compared to full grown people, or the ederly. Do you even understand the importance and impact of fat intake on people at different stages of their lives? Or what about the insulating properties of whole milk vs. 2% & 1%? And why do nutrionists recommend people who live in different climates consume different amounts of milk? Do you have scientific evidence to present on the issue of the effects of bile on the nutrional components of milk during and post digestion? What about the pressure levels in the GI system?

It's all part of most studies on milk. So your "legitimate health experts" certainly put forth their findings on these subjects. Oh forget it, I can't believe I got this worked [up] over the comments of someone who thinks "googling" is research.

Wow, did Tom Cruise just post at MacRumours?


*rolls around laughing*

[DZ/015]

Screw what any "experts" say. I like milk. My kids like milk. My wife likes soy milk. I drink it because I like the taste. What else goes so well with an Oreo anyway?

Drink whatever you like. Death is inevitable. Embrace it, baby!:)

[LethalWolfe]

I know, it's almost as bad as the "official" dairy information that we get from our gov't after the US dairy industry lobbyists have done their thing. :rolleyes:
That's right. Take info from people w/agendas w/a grain of salt. I just find it amusing that many people vehemently question the opposition, while readily accepting info from anyone as long as it's info they want to hear.

scem0,
If all you wanted to do was to let people know that milk might not be such a big requirement for maintaining proper health as an adult your original post completely didn't get that message across. Honey vs vinegar my friend. The "hey you stupid sheep, listen to me because I know more than you do" approach typically starts a fight, not a discussion. And posting some quality links supporting your opinion woulda been nice because, lets face it, people are lazy. Give them a link and they'll probably click. Tell them to google for info to support your opinion (which they may or may not share) that contradicts "common knowledge" and they probably won't.


Lethal

[killuminati]

Wow, did Tom Cruise just post at MacRumours?


*rolls around laughing*

That's what I thought about the first post.

[scem0]

My apologies Lethalwolfe, it was not my intention to come off that way.

e

[m-dogg]

I could take milk or leave it. A little in my coffee, with a fresh hot chocolate chip cookie or cooking, but that's it. I don't dislike it, but I'm not really crazy about the taste of it.

Cheese, on the other hand, is absolutely fantastic in all of its many glorious & delicious forms!

[sushi]

I just find it amusing that many people vehemently question the opposition, while readily accepting info from anyone as long as it's info they want to hear.
Wise words indeed.

Guess that it is basic human nature -- unfortunately.

[commonpeople]

All farm animals (and vegetables for that matter) have been genetically manipulated by cross-breeding over 1000's of years in order to produce completely unnatural food-stuffs for human benefit.

Any assertions that drinking milk isn't natural is based on a fairly distorted view of agriculture.

Ripe pears aren't 'natural'
Juicy steaks aren't 'natural'
Bread isn't 'natural'

There's virtually nothing we consume that would be recognized by our far ancestors tens of thousands of years ago.

[riche]

Can anybody give me a link to information on milk's benfits/risks from a respectable source? I'm not going to believe what PETA has to say about milk, they use about as much propaganda as mao did.

I'm not sure how "respectable" a source this is, but a fully referenced report on the harm milk can cause, can be found here:
http://www.vegetarian.org.uk/whitelies/report01.html