Dell Mac OS Drivers?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Engadget notes (http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/29/apple-os-x-appears-on-dells-driver-downloads/) that "Apple Mac OS" is listed as a possible pop-up selection when attempting to download the latest drivers for your Dell computer.

The Driver/Downloads page (http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/index.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=gen) discrepancy, of course, has sparked a lot of speculation about a Mac OS X/Dell pairing. The additional website pick-list option, however, may have simply found its way onto Dell's support site for existing printer drivers (http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/download.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&releaseid=R112254&formatcnt=1&libid=0&fileid=146792) which Dell does produce Mac drivers for.

Dell's CEO has publicly stated (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/06/20050616112923.shtml) that they would be "happy to offer" Mac OS X for PCs if Apple were to allow it.

[Bubbasteve]

I give it a day until Apple has it removed

[bigbossbmb]

I almost thought this was simply a printer thing...but then I went to the site and Apple Mac OS is not an option for the printers I tried, but it IS an option for a Dell XPS computer...

I really hope this turns out to be nothing.

[unemployed]

I give it a day until Apple has it removed


It is gone.

[projectle]

It is obvious...

It is a logistics thing.

It is much easier to create one lookup script that is added by an include script for everything site wide. (you know, <?php require 'inc/navigation.php' ?>)

Put down your plushy pillows and screaming "OMG Ponies!" whenever you hear something about Apple?

[Bubbasteve]

It is gone.
I stand corrected

[TallShaffer]

I'm already sick of Dell being everywhere for everything, and there's no way Apple would let this happen.



Ohhh Emmmm Geeeeee PONIES!!!!!1!!!!1

[Nermal]

It is gone.

Still there for me.

[NVRsayNVR]

hmmm :confused: Don't do it Apple!


Think Alike........?

[im_to_hyper]

It is gone.

No, the options are still there. They tend to be for the higher-end newer computers, such as the XPS models and the newer Dimensions, but are not found on the business lines such as the Latitude or the Optiplex.

This could be indicitive of an update from Dell and Apple to allow OS X as a BTO option on its newer computers. The update screen looks highly conspicuous to be just for printer drivers.

XPS/Dimension 400/9150 / Apple Mac OS / English

The above is an example heading. Underneath are Dell Diagnostic utilities in an ISO form which could easily be burned under OS X, a BIOS update which is an exe but claims to be in "Universal" format. Notice the capital U.

This file format consists of a BIOS executable file. The Universal format can be used to install from Windows XP, Windows 2000, NT, Windows 9X, Windows ME or a MS DOS environment.

Perhaps they will be changing it to a Mac OS app as well?

Lastly, the printer driver is the same under all the listings, a Dell MFP Laser Printer 1815dn which has new Mac Only drivers released on 5-29-06 (Monday)

What does all of this mean??

Now: if Dell did offer OS X, would iLife and iWork be bundled, or is that one of the benefits of getting the actual Mac, being able to get those bundled?

[Peace]

Since Dell is changing over to AMD I'd say this is nothing.

[-Garry-]

You do know that Dell recently introduced a revamped support site? Of course, it looks exactly the same as the old one (only us Dell employees would even notice!)

I'm sure it's just a case of consistency since Dell wouldn't write the drivers themselves anyway - they'd have to be written by the hardware manufacturers themselves and I assure you that this isn't happening at the moment.

[mccoma]

that Dell would probably be the PC maker most likely to be able to handle OS X in a decent manner.
1. Until a couple of days ago, they were an Intel only shop.
2. They have the money to test OS X with all their options
3. In the non-portable market, their boxes are very different from the Apple boxes (no mac mini or iMac-like machines - can't really say about the new Mac Pro / PowerMac)

It won't happen because of Microsoft and Apple, but they would be the most likely to be able to do it. If they did do it iLife would have to be included (just to prep for upgrades and not to hose the user on things heard in the new commercials), but I do wonder if they would include Office? It would make sense from a Dell point of view.

[Makosuke]

I am going to assume that this is nothing--seems a pretty huge leap for Apple to either start licencing the OS or dump their hardware business entirely at this stage (I sure HOPE not--that would seriously suck). Then again, until recently nobody believed the rumors of switching to Intel, and that happened, so I'm not discounting anything.

And I must say, if Apple MUST partner with a company to get some version of OSX available for boring "Big corporate" purchases, even if Dell is the obvious choice I would so desperately hope that it wouldn't be the company Apple would choose. At least go with Lenovo, or HP, or ANYBODY but Dell.

[Nate4747]

Cue uproar.

But it's odd the way it's listed "Apple Mac OS." Most sites that ask for OS version list it as Mac OS X or 10.x.x. It sure would be interesting if Dell sold macs though.

[LimeiBook86]

This does seem quite interesting. Although Steve Jobs keeps saying "we're a hardware company" he also said that there was "No video iPod."...the times are changing :p or many it was just a screw up, or some hoax :rolleyes:

[Lixivial]

Since Dell is changing over to AMD I'd say this is nothing.

You mean to say that Dell is changing their server line over to the Opteron processor, right? And even then, it'll be used in a four-socket server. Fair move, I'd say, as that's where Intel's weak point currently is. That's not to say they won't move all their machines over to AMD, but I'm inclined to believe the laptop road will be tough for AMD to break.

Any road, I'm curious as to how that move makes this nothing; it's been proven that OS X will run on AMD processors (and why shouldn't it?). If anything, the fact that Apple Mac OS (http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/devices.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&SystemID=PRN_LSR_5100CN&os=MAC1&osl=EN) has been in the drop-down since at least December should be more fitting. Of course, in that instance, it contains an OS 9 driver set. I think this is just a mix up because the Latitude X1 driver page does contain one Mac OS driver.

EDIT: I take that back. Mac OS 9 & OS X driver set.

[EricNau]

The day Apple releases OS X to other PC manufacturers they can kiss their hardware sales goodbye. From that point on, Apple would be purely a software company.

Apple is spending a lot of time and energy to switch all of their computers to intel processors. They would not have bothered if they were planning on giving up in the hardware businesses.

It doesn't mean anything.

[LimeiBook86]

Apple is spending a lot of time and energy to switch all of their computers to intel processors. They would not have bothered if they were planning on giving up in the hardware businesses.
You have a very good point there, it would be very silly if Apple turned around and opened Mac OS X to other computer companies, especially now. :rolleyes:

[neocell]

Just a pic if anyone's curious

[TallShaffer]

If this happens I'm just going to shoot myself in the back of the throat. I don't want to be using any software that is the same as any Dell user. I got a mac so I wouldn't have to be in the same usergroups as dell owners.

[bigandy]

:eek: yet another MR duplicate thread...

original here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=204949)...

:rolleyes:

[Squire]

I wonder if this could mean OS X on Alienware.

-Squire

[netdog]

If this happens I'm just going to shoot myself in the back of the throat.

That seems like a reasonable response. :rolleyes:

[2ndPath]

that Dell would probably be the PC maker most likely to be able to handle OS X in a decent manner.
1. Until a couple of days ago, they were an Intel only shop.
2. They have the money to test OS X with all their options
3. In the non-portable market, their boxes are very different from the Apple boxes (no mac mini or iMac-like machines - can't really say about the new Mac Pro / PowerMac)


In the non-portable market Dell really makes different machines, but Apple probably wants to target that marked with the new Mac Pros. Dell offers some of the features you only get on Powermacs so far for much less money (for example expandability and exchangable graphics). Because Apple could lose quite a number of Mac Pro sales there, I don't think they will do it, although it would be nice for the consume to have more options.

In the portable market Dell offers some subnotbooks, which weigh half as much as the MacBook. But then their have been rumors that Apple is working on a MacBook mini, which would fill that gap.

[MacRumorUser]

Whats interesting though is that what it lists are bios updates and partition updates, essentially exactly what Apple gave us with boot camp....

That has to be more than a coincidence :confused:

Never say never when it comes to apple, we all said never when it was rumored to switch to intel, we all said never when it was rumored apple would allow windows to run, we all say never that apple will allow 3rd partys to run osX.....

[Pistol Pete]

Id like to say this would never happen....I wont go into details.....

[bigandy]

Whats interesting though is that what it lists are bios updates and partition updates, essentially exactly what Apple gave us with boot camp....

That has to be more than a coincidence :confused:

Never say never when it comes to apple, we all said never when it was rumored to switch to intel, we all said never when it was rumored apple would allow windows to run, we all say never that apple will allow 3rd partys to run osX.....

it's scary isn't it?!?!

oh, you forgot one thing there, we pretty much all said never.. when.. can't mention it's name... thread... 500... ;)

[ictiosapiens]

If this happens I'm just going to shoot myself in the back of the throat. I don't want to be using any software that is the same as any Dell user. I got a mac so I wouldn't have to be in the same usergroups as dell owners.

I would most definately buy myself a nice latitude d620, a nice SMALL notebook with a proper 256mb discret graphics card... if they get mac os running stable on it, my money is sooo on it...

I'd much rather an apple , but if they don't meet my needs why should I be limited by them...

I think options are always a good thing...

I don't see why the apple fan boys(blind zealots) go so mental, if Apple's hardware is so great they have nothing to fear, apple should win shouldn't they. Or, they'll have to evolve and offer more options to the user.

In any case, apple wins, it worked for microsoft, and if there's a company that can raise mac os market share, that's dell.

Also, if they can't compete on a hardware level, tough, there's the free market for you, they'll continue to make money on what they're better at, software...

It probably won't happen, but it's a nice concept, and everybody would win...

And flamers out there, I'm ready... hahaha...:)

[jaxstate]

I give it less than a year, Dell will be selling OSX, and MS and Apple will have some type of OS partnership (no talkin about OfficeX), I mean something huge.

[cbigfoot1987]

IF They where too do this apple would only allow this on the xps lines all alienware lines, and the high end inspiron and latitude notebooks and on all of the precision lines and the high end optiplex. all the others have stuff that is made too cheap for apple to allow OS X 10.5 to run on.

I say 10.5 cause it is the next os X versoin:D

[shadowmoses]

I really really hope this never happens I'd hate too see OS X go mainstream, but to be fair it is inevitable that it will eventually happen and this may be the start....

ShadoW

[hvfsl]

Well this has to happen at some point. There will be a time in the future when Apple has increased their market share as much as they can and the only way up is to start letting other companies ship Mac OS X on their computers.

Although Apple do allow Dell to ship Mac OS X, I hope it is just on their performance lines. Apple still don't offer a gaming laptop (and probably never will), but this will be an area that Dell could help out on.

[simonthewolf]

Has anyone downloaded this stuff yet? It may come with an interesting ReadMe or two...

[ldkoehler]

This seems unrelated but still interesting:

http://gear.ign.com/articles/710/710374p1.html

I wonder what Dell is releasing tomorrow - I sure hope it has nothing to do with OSX drivers

and when Apple will finally release a home media center unit?

[ITASOR]

Awesome! I'll take a DELL 12" 1280x768 Widescreen Laptop with Tiger, please! :D

[RichP]

Description: This file format consists of a BIOS executable file. The Universal (Windows/MS DOS) format can be used to install from Windows XP, Windows 2000, NT, Windows 9X, Windows ME or a MS DOS environment.

Note it has been changed to what "Universal" means.

I have navigated around on quite a bit of these pages on Dell now, and it, as posted, seems to just be a new page setup for Dell, where the Apple OS stuff is only printer related, but the menu heirarchy has some overlap for Apple OS to cover computers.

[sjo]

Awesome! I'll take a DELL 12" 1280x768 Widescreen Laptop with Tiger, please! :D

+ it'd have two mouse buttoms :) finally!

[cbigfoot1987]

Well this has to happen at some point. There will be a time in the future when Apple has increased their market share as much as they can and the only way up is to start letting other companies ship Mac OS X on their computers.

Although Apple do allow Dell to ship Mac OS X, I hope it is just on their performance lines. Apple still don't offer a gaming laptop (and probably never will), but this will be an area that Dell could help out on.

what is your idea of a gaming laptop wont the macbookpro qualify??

[ccool2ax]

The only, ONLY reason i wouldn't hate a dellmac is that 30% of computer users are idiots who buy new dells every 15 years and never buy anything else and don't know anything about windows or osx. Otherwise, the Dellmac is a stupid idea. Dellmacs are for the people who still think the blue e (internet explorer logo) stands for the internet. I think its hilarious to see users come to the school Mac lab, look for the blue E, click it, then wonder why their page looks messed up. Dellmacs are for the idiots who think that their CD tray is a cupholder (but doesnt it auto-retract in like 5 minutes??). Basically, Dellmacs are for PC users.

[ccool2ax]

This seems unrelated but still interesting:

http://gear.ign.com/articles/710/710374p1.html

I wonder what Dell is releasing tomorrow - I sure hope it has nothing to do with OSX drivers

and when Apple will finally release a home media center unit?

Dell thing looks Apple-invite style...

and the Mac Mini is a decent media center. Streams stuff from other Macs, plus EyeTV is easy to set up.

[imacintel]

ok,I went with a generic XPS laptop, got a diagnostic driver. Sorry, it was a.exe. problem solved.

[Dunepilot]

This would be anathema.

Jobs closed down the clone makers last time round, partly because they weren't growing the market share, and partly because he doesn't want to see MacOS running on anything other than top-quality hardware. Dell assuredly is not that.

I too didn't think that Apple would go Intel (but then, I also hadn't expected that IBM wouldn't manufacture a mobile G5). Selling MacOS through Dell seems an unlikely scenario to me, given the history.

[59031]

but to be fair it is inevitable that it will eventually happen and this may be the start....

ShadoW


Oh yeah? Says who? You?

[gekko513]

The day Apple releases OS X to other PC manufacturers they can kiss their hardware sales goodbye. From that point on, Apple would be purely a software company.
I disagree. All the Mac models are highly competative with their PC counterparts. Look at the Mac mini and the AOpens mini PC. Look at the iMac and other all-in-ones, look at the MacBook and the PC Core Duo laptops. Even the PowerMacs are in the same price range as PC workstation counterparts.

[mwpeters8182]

I wouldn't mind being able to get a Dell configured with OS X. I don't like the all-in-one form factor, and I'd like a mid-level machine for daily use. The Mac Mini is too underpowered, with the integrated graphics and limited expandability, and the Mac Pro will most likely be too expensive/overkill for what I need.

I use a Dell machine with Linux on it at work, and I've had zero problems with it. Their desktop hardware isn't terrible.

[bigandy]

Dell thing looks Apple-invite style...

except, it's the sibling kept in the basement for 20 years because it's just *too* ugly for the world to see. :rolleyes:

they're trying so hard to excite people the way apple do, and methinks they're failing completely. haha.

[AppleinJapan]

I'll be buying a Dell then with a Mac OS of course !!
They have good service here in Japan...

Edit: as long as they offer a 59,000 yen model (with a 15 inch LCD monitor) like they do now here in japan

[peharri]

In a few months (well, ok, a little over half a year), anyone will be able to order, from store.apple.com, Amazon.com, smalldog.com, or a host of other sites, a DVD that will include every binary that makes up a complete Intel Mac OS X installation.

It might be encrypted, it might be that the installer is designed to prevent installation on any machine other than a genuine, certified, Apple Macintosh, but the DVD itself will exist and be sellable over the counter. There's no other way to get a multi-gigabyte operating system update to existing Mac mini, MacBook, MacBook Pro, and iMac Intel users (not to mention Mac Pro and Macserve users.)

And once that DVD's on sale, it will, if it doesn't already enable installation on non-Macs, be cracked. Someone will find a way of getting that disk to work as the base of an install for any compatible PC. It will no longer be necessary to spend a few days (I just downloaded the Debian DVD images, that's two DVDs, and it took nearly a week with BitTorrent) downloading from various dodgy, likely-to-go-down-at-a-moment's-notice, sites and figure out how to get that burnt to DVD and booted. The "installer" will be so small it'll be mirrored all over the world.

So the question here is not the one most Apple fans like much. It isn't "Should Apple allow Mac OS X run on non-Macs?" That's not for Apple to allow. They can make it hard, but they can't make it impossible. The question is "Does Apple actually want to benefit from Mac OS X on non-Macs?"

The real problem at the moment is few people are seeing that. They keep flashing back to 1995, a time when Mac OS didn't have a great rep, when Windows 95 had just come out and was technically better than the Mac OS of the time (albeit with a poorer UI), and when few outside of Mac circles actually wanted a Mac. Moreover, at that time, Mac OS didn't run on the popular hardware of the day. Whether this will be a repeat of that time is open to question given the massive difference in market conditions, but moreover, it's important that Apple make it work if they didn't last time, because they don't have a choice in the matter.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Dell and Apple are putting together a "solution" for people who want Dell hardware with Apple's software. If Apple makes deals with individual manufacturers, it at least has some control over what's going on. It can, at least, manage the experience, and ensure that they definitely see a slice of the revenue for all Mac OS X using machines.

[Mac_Freak]

How is Apple to survive on software sales only when 1/3rd of all software is pirated. Apple will have to implement some kind of a activation feature to "prevent" piracy.
Also, will move like mean that Apple would stop tech supporting such Dell computers with Mac OS X?

[grockk]

In a few months (well, ok, a little over half a year), anyone will be able to order, from store.apple.com, Amazon.com, smalldog.com, or a host of other sites, a DVD that will include every binary that makes up a complete Intel Mac OS X installation.

It might be encrypted, it might be that the installer is designed to prevent installation on any machine other than a genuine, certified, Apple Macintosh, but the DVD itself will exist and be sellable over the counter. There's no other way to get a multi-gigabyte operating system update to existing Mac mini, MacBook, MacBook Pro, and iMac Intel users (not to mention Mac Pro and Macserve users.)

And once that DVD's on sale, it will, if it doesn't already enable installation on non-Macs, be cracked. Someone will find a way of getting that disk to work as the base of an install for any compatible PC. It will no longer be necessary to spend a few days (I just downloaded the Debian DVD images, that's two DVDs, and it took nearly a week with BitTorrent) downloading from various dodgy, likely-to-go-down-at-a-moment's-notice, sites and figure out how to get that burnt to DVD and booted. The "installer" will be so small it'll be mirrored all over the world.


There is already a 10.4.6 install disc that works on non-apple hardware. It requires a little help to get sound, airport, and graphics working but it all works...

seriously, you can buy certain dell configurations that will run OS X and all the goodies too.

so that time is now.

[itguy06]

Eww, that's just dirty.

Dell makes the biggest POS's on the planet - If Apple goes the OSX licensing route, they better pick a QUALITY partner, not Dell.

If this happens, I'm out of the Macs for good - Dell is the epitome of all things wrong with the PC industry - from poor quality to poor performance to no support.

Dell should just close up shop and give the money back to the shareholders. They are truly worthless as a company.

[KEL9000]

There is already a 10.4.6 install disc that works on non-apple hardware. It requires a little help to get sound, airport, and graphics working but it all works...

seriously, you can buy certain dell configurations that will run OS X and all the goodies too.

so that time is now.


How do you get airport on a non-apple computer and where did you see this 10.4.6 install disk?

Just to summarize reallity:

Apple is:

A computer maker.
A direct competitor of Dell
A pmp maker
Making lots of money off hardware Mac + iPod

Apple is not:

An OS supplier
A competitor of microsoft
A seller of cheap, low margin computers
making lots of money off software OSX + iLife + iWork + ProApps


In the event Apple sells OSX to run on different hardware your seatback can be used for a floatation device.

[Squire]

If this happens, I'm out of the Macs for good

I wish I had an iPod nano for every time I read that before the Intel switch.

I think Apple has a lot to gain by offering their OS to Dell. I have not always felt that way, however. First of all, as others have mentioned, Apple still has competitively priced machines. In other words, a lot of people would still buy Macintoshes. Secondly, OS X is a solid operating system and I'm of the opinion that good products will eventually be adopted by the public... especially if "experimenting" with it only adds $120 to the price of a Dell.

-Squire

[Squire]

How do you get airport on a non-apple computer

Check the following site:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75422

Also, what if Apple has another kickass product in the pipeline...one that will require syncing with OS X? Perhaps they're seeing the operating system sales as a simple means to an end.

Just hypothesizing.

-Squire

[TallShaffer]

Why does everybody here only talk about dell for pc makers? How about HP, Gateway, Sony, Acer...etc?

Also, how is it possible to boot an OS that requires EFI when all these manufacturers are still using BIOS?

[EricNau]

I disagree. All the Mac models are highly competative with their PC counterparts. Look at the Mac mini and the AOpens mini PC. Look at the iMac and other all-in-ones, look at the MacBook and the PC Core Duo laptops. Even the PowerMacs are in the same price range as PC workstation counterparts.
Dell has a Core Duo laptop nearly identical to the $2000 MacBook Pro for $1300. Would you be willing to spend an extra $700 for the Apple if you could install OS X and iLife on the Dell?

Didn't think so.

[gekko513]

Dell has a Core Duo laptop nearly identical to the $2000 MacBook Pro for $1300. Would you be willing to spend an extra $700 for the Apple if you could install OS X and iLife on the Dell?

Didn't think so.
I think that model has been discussed before, and it's not identical at all. I just configured a Dell Inspiron 6400 to be as similar to the MacBook Pro as possible and it came out at $1772 and that is still with just a 1280x800 display and just a X1300 GPU. On the up side, it did have 1GB RAM as its minimum config and had a double layer DVD burner. Oh, and its large and heavy compared to the MBP.

[KEL9000]

Dell has a Core Duo laptop nearly identical to the $2000 MacBook Pro for $1300. Would you be willing to spend an extra $700 for the Apple if you could install OS X and iLife on the Dell?

Didn't think so.


that's why apple will never sell OSX for other manufacturers

[KEL9000]

Check the following site:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75422

Also, what if Apple has another kickass product in the pipeline...one that will require syncing with OS X? Perhaps they're seeing the operating system sales as a simple means to an end.

Just hypothesizing.

-Squire


that is for the basestation management software. The end you speak of is selling Macs. Let's take a little journey to economics land.

Apple sells a Computer for $2000 with a profit margin of +20% that is $400 of profit. Apple sells OSX for $129 with the same margin of 20% that gives us a profit of $26. Just speculation but I would image that they are not making any profit on OSX and soley rely on hardware sales. This means that for every Dell someone buys instead of a Mac, apple would have to sell ~20 copies of OSX.

Don't you think it is interesting that there is no CD Key with OSX? They don't care how many times you use it, because they already have your hardware money.

Do you think that Microsoft would stand by silently? I would guess that within minutes of the announcement MS would cease support for all OSX products, similar to the way they support linux. If you think for a minute that MS Office would run on a direct competitor's OS you are strongly mistaken. And we all know the power of Office.

[dagger01]

Apple will never, ever allow the tight integration of their hardware with their OS to break down by diluting the market with hackneyed hardware configurations running Mac OS X. There is no one in Apple's management from Stevsie on down that would even think of allowing something like that, no matter what the repercussions on market share might be. Just flat out not gonna happen. They tried it in the 1990s and it didn't work, almost killed them.

You will see Mac OS X running in the wild on Intel boxes other than Apple's. I'm sure it will happen, but it won't be something Apple supports, condones, or even thinks about allowing to happen as a business move. It would be against everything they stand for; a machine that works right out of the box, period. They'll remain a niche market player forever before they'll do that.

I know, I know, things change over time and who can prognosticate something so certain given the fluidity of technology and the personal computing/consumer electronics market? Trust me on this one. Not gonna happen as long as Apple exists as a company unto itself, and I don't think they'd get taken over any time soon. Although, I'm still reeling from the Pixar buyout. As a shareholder I'm still not too pleased at that decision, nor the crappy Disney stock I'm going to get for my Pixar shares. GACK! Now I feel dirty....

[dagger01]

Do you think that Microsoft would stand by silently? I would guess that within minutes of the announcement MS would cease support for all OSX products, similar to the way they support linux. If you think for a minute that MS Office would run on a direct competitor's OS you are strongly mistaken. And we all know the power of Office.

Are you nuts?!?! Microsoft has a much more captive market for their Office products on the Mac than they do on their own OS. They won't kill that market. It's why they bought Virtual PC; that and so they can make one version of Office that will run in both worlds.

The MS Mac BU is doomed anyway, especially after the Intel switch. I'll throw a whacky prediction out there to contemplate. Apple and Microsoft will be collaborating on the Yellow Box for Windows and Red Box for Mac OS X, a joint project to bring Mac OS X APIs to Windows and Windows APIs to Mac OS X. Sound crazy? Not when you think of the software sales opportunities such a collaboration would create. Apple could sell their high-end Pro apps to Windows customers and Microsoft would save money and kill the Mac BU for single app fork development. Apple makes a ton more money off software than they do hardware. This would also be a kick in the balls to Linux, which MS would also enjoy. Think I'm crazy? Well, we'll see won't we. 2007 is going to be a VERY interesting year for Apple.

[dagger01]

Apple sells a Computer for $2000 with a profit margin of +20% that is $400 of profit. Apple sells OSX for $129 with the same margin of 20% that gives us a profit of $26. Just speculation but I would image that they are not making any profit on OSX and soley rely on hardware sales. This means that for every Dell someone buys instead of a Mac, apple would have to sell ~20 copies of OSX.

BTW, you're about dead on for hardware margins, but the software margins are much higher. Don't have the figures in front of me, but software profits are always significantly higher than hardware. The only thing they may be treading water on is the iLife and iWork apps, but the OS and Pro apps are generating mucho profits. Hell, look at MS as an example! MS sells the Xbox at a loss BECAUSE they make ass loads of money off their software. Apple only makes hardware so they have the integration and know everything works out of the box. They are not making tons of money off computing hardware, or even the iPod. That's sheer volume, like the VHS business model. Apple only makes about $50 an iPod (video, not nano or shuffle) at retail prices. But, they sell 6 - 8 million of the little buggers every three months!

[KEL9000]

df is more articulate than my self.

http://daringfireball.net/2006/04/asinine_and_or_risky_ideas

[dagger01]

Check the following site:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75422

Also, what if Apple has another kickass product in the pipeline...one that will require syncing with OS X? Perhaps they're seeing the operating system sales as a simple means to an end.

Just hypothesizing.

-Squire

You're missing the fact that Apple makes consumer electronics products AND computing products. Apple is not going to require Mac OS X syncing exclusively for a consumer electronics product. That would be foolish given the market penetration they've achieved with the iPod, especially on the Windows platform. The example you point to of the Airport drivers for Windows is an example of wireless music streaming features and how they have become part of their consumer electronics strategy. The Windows drivers for the Airport Express make sense given how successful iTunes and iPod may drive people to buy Airport Express base stations for the wireless streaming features. Airport is really another consumer electronics product. It's a standard 802.11a/b/g device with some specific special features that integrate with both the computing and consumer electronics products Apple produces. But, it will work with ANY computer. I have Linux boxes that use Apple Airport base stations for wireless access. The drivers for Windows are for the iTunes features more than anything else.

[BenRoethig]

The only, ONLY reason i wouldn't hate a dellmac is that 30% of computer users are idiots who buy new dells every 15 years and never buy anything else and don't know anything about windows or osx. Otherwise, the Dellmac is a stupid idea. Dellmacs are for the people who still think the blue e (internet explorer logo) stands for the internet. I think its hilarious to see users come to the school Mac lab, look for the blue E, click it, then wonder why their page looks messed up. Dellmacs are for the idiots who think that their CD tray is a cupholder (but doesnt it auto-retract in like 5 minutes??). Basically, Dellmacs are for PC users.

And you guys accuse PC users to sticking to stereotypes. Believe it or not there are other groups besides the computer novices and those in the creative fields.


A computer maker.
A direct competitor of Dell


They are a computer maker, but they competed with Dell as much as Alienware did. Beleive it or not, the iMac and Mac Mini do not have universal appeal. They appeal to different segments of the market.

Apple will never, ever allow the tight integration of their hardware with their OS to break down by diluting the market with hackneyed hardware configurations running Mac OS X. There is no one in Apple's management from Stevsie on down that would even think of allowing something like that, no matter what the repercussions on market share might be. Just flat out not gonna happen. They tried it in the 1990s and it didn't work, almost killed them.


Apple and the PCs are running the same exact hardware. There are no dedicated mac motherboards anymore.

[zweigand]

Apple only makes hardware so they have the integration and know everything works out of the box. They are not making tons of money off computing hardware, or even the iPod.
http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q206data_sum.pdf

Looks like they make a LOT of money off of their hardware. Doesn't say much for the software either... I'm assuming that includes iLife, iWork, OS X, and all the pro apps like Aperture, Logic, FCP, Motion, Shake, etc.

Hardware is their business...

[BenRoethig]

I think that model has been discussed before, and it's not identical at all. I just configured a Dell Inspiron 6400 to be as similar to the MacBook Pro as possible and it came out at $1772 and that is still with just a 1280x800 display and just a X1300 GPU. On the up side, it did have 1GB RAM as its minimum config and had a double layer DVD burner. Oh, and its large and heavy compared to the MBP.

Agreed. The Inspiron E1505 is a consumer 15". The Macbook is a professional thin and light. Compared to the Dell, the MBP is faster, lighter, and thinner. The Dell has 64mb of dedicated video memory and the rest is shared. Those buying the Dell will not be buying the MBP reguardless.

[kahos]

Why does everybody here only talk about dell for pc makers? How about HP, Gateway, Sony, Acer...etc?

Also, how is it possible to boot an OS that requires EFI when all these manufacturers are still using BIOS?

OS X 86 works fine on computers using BIOS (with some slight modifications I guess).

I wouldnt mind dell selling os x on a few select computers, at least the "gamer" models since apple doesnt look like its going after that market right now.

[KEL9000]

They are a computer maker, but they competed with Dell as much as Alienware did. Beleive it or not, the iMac and Mac Mini do not have universal appeal. They appeal to different segments of the market.



I was simply illustrating that apple's current strategy is integrate software and hardware just like Dell and not at all like Microsoft. And if they aren't competitors why does everyone compare their systems so much?

[Core Trio]

Dell has a Core Duo laptop nearly identical to the $2000 MacBook Pro for $1300. Would you be willing to spend an extra $700 for the Apple if you could install OS X and iLife on the Dell?

Didn't think so.

To get that dell up to the specs of the MBP (as close as possible) pretty much closes a large chunk of that $700 gap...and then account for the fact that the dell is ugly thick and heavy, and has a lower screen res.

[Core Trio]

OS X 86 works fine on computers using BIOS (with some slight modifications I guess).

I wouldnt mind dell selling os x on a few select computers, at least the "gamer" models since apple doesnt look like its going after that market right now.


And game developers dont really seem to be biting down into the Mac gaming market either...so that would be utterly pointless without a dual booting option. If you're buying a computer to play games, why would you be buying a mac..err uhm...dell with OS X

[yellow]

Seriosuly. Humor... should be humor. Because that's all it is.
I'm surprised it wasn't called "Apple MAC OS".

[BenRoethig]

And game developers dont really seem to be biting down into the Mac gaming market either...so that would be utterly pointless without a dual booting option. If you're buying a computer to play games, why would you be buying a mac..err uhm...dell with OS X

They don't bite because there isn't a whole lot of fish in the pond yet and there really isn't a mac conducive to gaming.

[danielwsmithee]

...Apple sells OSX for $129 with the same margin of 20% that gives us a profit of $26. ...Your understanding of software profits is amazing. Software profits are almost 100% once the development costs are paid for. There is not a set ratio of % profit sails. If the R&D effort has not been paid for profits are ZERO or negative. If enough units have sold the profit margin on each unit sold is 100%. You can create a sudo profit margin based a forcasted number of units sold! There is plenty of profit to be made by only selling software!

I am sure that Apple has looked at the numbers, but I doubt they have any confident estimates of how many copies of OS X would sell if they opened it to all PC's. Look for Apple to come up with some method of "testing the water" without canabalizing their hardware sales.

[yellow]

OS X Lite? I'm not holding my breath.. :)

That being said, I wouldn't be shocked if they dipped their footsies in the software market eventually, but it'll be at a point where they surely won't have anything to loose.

[KEL9000]

Your understanding of software profits is amazing. Software profits are almost 100% once the development costs are paid for. There is not a set ratio of % profit sails. If the R&D effort has not been paid for profits are ZERO or negative. If enough units have sold the profit margin on each unit sold is 100%. You can create a sudo profit margin based a forcasted number of units sold! There is plenty of profit to be made by only selling software!



R&D for software is never ending. You must be thinking of console games where there is a final release and development is stopped. OSX and all other continueing software products will never have a final release. Development will continue forever. Let me repeat for ever. That means as long as there is an Apple they will be spending money on OSX or what ever it is called. Thus software costs are never 0. In fact the opposite is true, hardware is not released over time, once you spin a board you are stuck with it.

[matticus008]

Your understanding of software profits is amazing. Software profits are almost 100% once the development costs are paid for.
Correct. But at Apple, software sales represent just drippings of their overall sales. Hardware sales (iPod and Macintosh/ACD) are split close to 50/50 in their earnings statements. The software they sell is nice padding, but it doesn't generate enough money to pay for its development and support costs and it would take several years of operating at a deep loss to get Apple to have a self-sufficient software division.

As for the Dell site, it's pretty clear to me that it's just a navigation mixup. The have a set of options for drop down boxes in a site-wide template, and using ASP or PHP or whatever Dell uses, they just supply the drop-down box options. The page titles are also generated from these pre-entered array. A site with as many pages and interactive elements as Dell's is most definitely NOT coded by hand, page by page. Someone, somewhere, just mixed up a numeric code that put Mac OS into their options list for some drop down boxes that shouldn't have it.

[kahos]

And game developers dont really seem to be biting down into the Mac gaming market either...so that would be utterly pointless without a dual booting option. If you're buying a computer to play games, why would you be buying a mac..err uhm...dell with OS X

So I dont have to buy 2 computers since im only gonna be using one at a time anyway?

Because I would like to have a good computer for playing games but I dont wanna give up on osx nor do I want to buy a powermac?

At the moment, apple doesnt offer anything, except for the expensives powermacs, that would suit my needs as a gaming computer

The all in one iMac with an underclocked x1600 is obviously good enough for the casual gamer but It would be a "downgrade" for me since I used to have a 256mb X800XL

Anyways, I gave up on playing computer games a few months ago so this is not an issue for me anymore, but I could understant that some people would find it convenient to buy a dell with a good pci express video card be able to boot both osx and windows.

[TallShaffer]

Just wait a few months, there will be some huge improvements for gaming on macs.

[bbyrdhouse]

If this happens I'm just going to shoot myself in the back of the throat. I don't want to be using any software that is the same as any Dell user. I got a mac so I wouldn't have to be in the same usergroups as dell owners.

This post made me laugh.

But the funny part is that I can relate.

I do like the Apple hardware much better than Dell, but if I could pick up a $400 bundle that I could tuck away in my bedroom where no one would see. Well, I might be tempted.

[TallShaffer]

I'd never buy a dell;

This is partially because of the name, I don't want to have any of their ugly, second-rate hardware.


Also, I bought my mac for a ton of reasons other than what I joked about before:

I wanted to use a stable operating system on stable, high quality hardware.
I wanted a machine that was assembled well.
I wanted a 'designer' computer, I love the appearance of the casing on my macbook, the overall layout is simply incredible.
I don't mean to sound racist, but I don't like talking to Indian people who don't know a thing about 'customer service'.

I spent a little bit more money, but got a computer that is lightyears better than any other oem manufacturer, ESPECIALLY dell. I'd buy an acer laptop with a celeron and memory measured in kilobytes before I bought a dell.

[SiliconAddict]

It will be a cold day in [Ultra mega nasty 4 letter swear that will get you banned.] when Apple lets OS X run on a piece of crap (OH NO! A SWEAR!) Dell. Most likely this is for their printers.

[cyberdogl2]

stranger things have happened

[cbigfoot1987]

I'd never buy a dell;

This is partially because of the name, I don't want to have any of their ugly, second-rate hardware.


Also, I bought my mac for a ton of reasons other than what I joked about before:

I wanted to use a stable operating system on stable, high quality hardware.
I wanted a machine that was assembled well.
I wanted a 'designer' computer, I love the appearance of the casing on my macbook, the overall layout is simply incredible.
I don't mean to sound racist, but I don't like talking to Indian people who don't know a thing about 'customer service'.

I spent a little bit more money, but got a computer that is lightyears better than any other oem manufacturer, ESPECIALLY dell. I'd buy an acer laptop with a celeron and memory measured in kilobytes before I bought a dell.
__________________
1.83 MB, 1.25 GB // 60 GB // Combo // White
HP dv5000 w/p4 (Boo intel)

Uhhhhhh HP SUX worse than dell dude hp does not know the word quality!!!

[mark!]

Uhhhhhh HP SUX worse than dell dude hp does not know the word quality!!!

speaking of hp why did they make ipods for like 10 seconds...wtf.

[cbigfoot1987]

speaking of hp why did they make ipods for like 10 seconds...wtf.
Because apple felt sorry for them so offered them to hp for a while then hp wanted to do something else to them and apple said NO! so hp said thanks anyway! Besides their ipod warranty sucked compared to apples ipod warranty!

[cyberdogl2]

I don't wanna get off topic but Apple+HP didn't happen because Apple "felt sorry" for them. It was a smart alliance to get iPods sold in places where HP products are, but Apple products aren't. Also it got iTunes on a lot of HP boxes. The deal ended when HP decided to produce their own media software or use somebody elses, I forget.

[EricNau]

I think that model has been discussed before, and it's not identical at all. I just configured a Dell Inspiron 6400 to be as similar to the MacBook Pro as possible and it came out at $1772 and that is still with just a 1280x800 display and just a X1300 GPU. On the up side, it did have 1GB RAM as its minimum config and had a double layer DVD burner. Oh, and its large and heavy compared to the MBP.
Try this one (I'm comparing it to the bottom-level MacBook, $1099)

Dell Inspiron E1505 Dual Core

Intel&#174; Core™ Duo processor T2400 (2MB Cache/1.83GHz/667MHz FSB)
15.4 inch Wide Screen XGA Display
512MB Shared Single Channel DDR2 SDRAM 533MHZ, 1 DIMM
60GB 5400rpm SATA Hard Drive
24X CD Burner/DVD Combo Drive
Intel&#174; Graphics Media Accelerator 950
Dell Wireless 1390 802.11b/g Mini Card
$839


The only difference between the Dell and the Apple are the screen size (which is a + for the Dell) and overall size and weight (which is a - ).

Very few people would be willing to buy the MacBook for two reasons:
1) People have used PC's all of their life, even if the PC is running Mac OS X, they are still going to buy from a manufacturer they've dealt with before.
2)Why spend the extra $250 ?

[BenRoethig]

3)Bigger screen.

Reasons people would be willing to buy the Macbook
-Lighter
-More portable.
-Better screen.

Believe it or not, they actually appeal to different types of customers.

[Transeau]

Actually, you are looking at $1184 for the equivalent Dell.

You skipped the remote, dual channel memory, a battery to match the runtime on the Mac, the Dell wireless isn't nearly as good as the Mac's... (mac is A/B/G at 100mw, Dell is B/G at 40mW) and don't forget the $49 for Dell's 30 Days of on-the-phone support.

Then you have to add on a $49 BlueTooth USB dongle if you want the BlueTooth on the Dell.

Then there is the size...

Dell: 1.5" x 14" x 10.5" @ 6.2lbs
Mac: 1.0" x 13" x 9" @ 5.2lbs

[TallShaffer]

and don't forget the $49 for Dell's 30 Days of on-the-phone support.



I'm just going to clarify this:

It means you'll be on the phone for about 30 days waiting for an answer to your problem/talk to 'Richard' from India.

[EricNau]

You skipped the remote
I skipped the remote on purpose. The Apple remote is useless.


Just to clarify; I'm not saying I wouldn't buy the MacBook (because I would) - I'm just looking at the choices from the perspective of a naive PC user (the ones that usually buy Dells). ;) :D

[EricNau]

3)Bigger screen.
The average PC user thinks bigger is better. I'm not saying it's right, but that's what they are going to think.

[cal6n]

I skipped the remote on purpose. The Apple remote is useless.



Only if you don't use keynote

or connect to your hifi for iTunes

or connect to your television for DVDs

[matticus008]

The average PC user thinks bigger is better. I'm not saying it's right, but that's what they are going to think.
I don't think that's a fair assessment. The average person might think bigger is better. Given a Mac user who would think the 13" screen is best for their needs, I don't see how a PC user with the same needs wouldn't also come to that conclusion.

The Inspiron E1405 (not 1505) is the closest to the MacBook. Configured to match the entry MacBook (and skipping the $29 MCE remote, as I think the PC remote is far superior if not as aesthetically pleasing), it came to $1305--albeit with 1GB of RAM. The higher-capacity battery, which would deliver more MacBook-like battery life, is an additional $99.

1.83GHz Core Duo, Wifi and Bluetooth, 14" 1280x800 display, 60GB hard drive, 1GB dual channel RAM, GMA950, XP MCE, 5.4 pounds (higher capacity battery would make it even a little heftier).

The MacBook has the built-in iSight, remote, and of course iLife, but the Dell has more RAM and a DVD burner. It is .42" thicker and a few ounces heavier than the MacBook. In any case, it's $206 more expensive with less battery life. For almost the exact same price as the Dell, you can get the handedly superior 2GHz MacBook with SuperDrive (the E1405's only MB-besting feature would be RAM and maybe its slightly larger [matching resolution] screen).

Edit: I went back to the site and configured a 512MB/Combo drive version to match the base MacBook even better, and it came to $1236. Again, worse battery life (add $99), no remote (add $29 if you wish), no iLife, no iSight. All other specs are the same as above. The MacBook just in raw hardware is $137 cheaper.

[bigandy]

Only if you don't use keynote

or connect to your hifi for iTunes

or connect to your television for DVDs

i'm sure that was a very wide generalisation, that statement. one specific to him. :confused: :rolleyes:

[gekko513]

See, EricNau, your examples don't hold up.

The Remote is useless. :confused: You really need to wake up and see the world from a more objective perspective.

[ccool2ax]

except, it's the sibling kept in the basement for 20 years because it's just *too* ugly for the world to see. :rolleyes:

they're trying so hard to excite people the way apple do, and methinks they're failing completely. haha.
Well, that's because Dell doesn't have a huge fanbase. That's why DellRumors is hilarious (when it was updated).

[BenRoethig]

The average PC user thinks bigger is better. I'm not saying it's right, but that's what they are going to think.

It depends on the situation and what your needs are.

[ccool2ax]

Eww, that's just dirty.

Dell makes the biggest POS's on the planet - If Apple goes the OSX licensing route, they better pick a QUALITY partner, not Dell.

If this happens, I'm out of the Macs for good - Dell is the epitome of all things wrong with the PC industry - from poor quality to poor performance to no support.

Dell should just close up shop and give the money back to the shareholders. They are truly worthless as a company.
<jokeruining>
Heh heh. Nice joke. Michael Dell said that baout Apple in the 1990s. </jokeruining>

[ccool2ax]

So I dont have to buy 2 computers since im only gonna be using one at a time anyway?

Because I would like to have a good computer for playing games but I dont wanna give up on osx nor do I want to buy a powermac?

At the moment, apple doesnt offer anything, except for the expensives powermacs, that would suit my needs as a gaming computer

The all in one iMac with an underclocked x1600 is obviously good enough for the casual gamer but It would be a "downgrade" for me since I used to have a 256mb X800XL

Anyways, I gave up on playing computer games a few months ago so this is not an issue for me anymore, but I could understant that some people would find it convenient to buy a dell with a good pci express video card be able to boot both osx and windows.

No. Apple hasnt opened up OS X yet. Apple's announcing a Mac Pro this August. Buy the Mac Pro then and boot Windows on it.

[BenRoethig]

No. Apple hasnt opened up OS X yet. Apple's announcing a Mac Pro this August. Buy the Mac Pro then and boot Windows on it.

And all for two grand...with a server/workstation CPU.

[Shagrat]

Hell freezes over "encore un fois"!!!

Microsoft now release a Mac specific Keyboard and Mouse!!!

http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/productdetails.aspx?pid=078

[bbrosemer]

I just know that I am looking forward to getting my first mac desktop in over 10 years :). Can't wait for the MacPro, to be superior to all other dekstops....;)

[gkarris]

that Dell would probably be the PC maker most likely to be able to handle OS X in a decent manner.
1. Until a couple of days ago, they were an Intel only shop.
2. They have the money to test OS X with all their options
3. In the non-portable market, their boxes are very different from the Apple boxes (no mac mini or iMac-like machines - can't really say about the new Mac Pro / PowerMac)

It won't happen because of Microsoft and Apple, but they would be the most likely to be able to do it. If they did do it iLife would have to be included (just to prep for upgrades and not to hose the user on things heard in the new commercials), but I do wonder if they would include Office? It would make sense from a Dell point of view.

Dude, Dell sucks....

http://www.ihatedell.net

[cybermiguel]

edited

[cybermiguel]

I wonder if this could mean OS X on Alienware.

-Squire
That would be simply AWESOME!!!!!!!

Imagine for just one second....a machine that could be at least 2 to 3 times faster than the fastest Intel Powermac...then, visualize it with OS X...it would be a hell of a machine!!!!! Pure power!!!! Pure speed!!!!!

[ClimbingTheLog]

Apple is spending a lot of time and energy to switch all of their computers to intel processors. They would not have bothered if they were planning on giving up in the hardware businesses

Umm, that's exactly what they'd do. Let's say Apple gets out of the hardware business to focus on OSX and iPod. What are you going to run OSX on? The dozens of PPC machines you can buy at Best Buy?

[Billy Boo Bob]

Hell freezes over "encore un fois"!!!

Microsoft now release a Mac specific Keyboard and Mouse!!!

http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/productdetails.aspx?pid=078
I'm sure that's an equivalent item to PC KB/Mouse. Just a minor tweak in manufacturing for a run (make provision for Command Key mainly)... I'm sure they end up right next to Mac MS Office in the few places that carry Office on the shelf. Might sell a good number through mail order houses, too.

[ClimbingTheLog]

Jobs closed down the clone makers last time round, partly because they weren't growing the market share, and partly because he doesn't want to see MacOS running on anything other than top-quality hardware. Dell assuredly is not that.

Say it with me folks, "Apple Certified PC". They might even get a key to load into the Trusted Computing module that they're under contract not to load into uncertified hardware.

Dell can source whatever parts it wants to at good prices. They can use their usual junk or something decent. I've been bitten by el-crapo chips in Dell servers, the $4000 kind, so their instinct is deep. But with their acquisition of Alienware, they have at least a few people at the company who aren't so miserly. Who knows, but "everybody buys Dell".

[ClimbingTheLog]

There is already a 10.4.6 install disc that works on non-apple hardware. It requires a little help to get sound, airport, and graphics working but it all works...

The point the OP was trying to make is that when you go buy a disc with Leopard, there are certain legal rights you get with that purchase. Installing it on the hardware of your choice may be one of them.

Today, the only way to get OSX/Intel is to copy one from somebody that bought an Intel Mac which would be very different in the eyes of the court.

[ClimbingTheLog]

R&D for software is never ending. You must be thinking of console games where there is a final release and development is stopped. OSX and all other continueing software products will never have a final release. Development will continue forever. Let me repeat for ever. That means as long as there is an Apple they will be spending money on OSX or what ever it is called. Thus software costs are never 0.

No, but you calculate the cost of software based on the revenues for that version. So, Apple is doing Leopard now. Leopard is costing $X to develop. Leopard will ship and they'll collect $Y in revenue from selling Leopard. Ongoing maintenance of Leopard will cost $Z. So, the profit on Leopard is $Y -$X - $Z. You don't subtract $X from the profit made on Tiger, except on quarterly financial statements if you're looking to quantify the profitability of a software product. In Apple's world, $Z goes away eventually (see any Jaguar security updates lately?)

In fact the opposite is true, hardware is not released over time, once you spin a board you are stuck with it.

After R&D for both, the cost to produce a widget of hardware is much much much higher than software. Printing software is like printing money. See also Microsoft.

From the recently linked PDF, Apple's revenues on hardware look like about $6B a year. Their margins are around 25%, so figuring in support and repairs call it 20% profit, for round numbers. That's $1.2B profit per year. Their software revenues were about $1.3B. I seem to recall hearing they spent $300M on software R&D that year (some of which is reflected in the hardware margins not counted here). Even ignoring that, and counting in a generous number for support (no repairs), we're talking profit around $900M. Now go grow the hardware and software business 5x each, and the hardware business makes $6B and the software business makes $6.2B. The more it grows, the more software makes more money than hardware.

[TallShaffer]

How about this:

Instead of all the typical rumor site babble, one of you should just shutup and go to the dell website, buy a computer with the 'Apple Mac OS X' on it and then see what it actually is.

[bigandy]

Are you nuts?!?! Microsoft has a much more captive market for their Office products on the Mac than they do on their own OS. They won't kill that market. It's why they bought Virtual PC; that and so they can make one version of Office that will run in both worlds.

The MS Mac BU is doomed anyway, especially after the Intel switch. I'll throw a whacky prediction out there to contemplate. Apple and Microsoft will be collaborating on the Yellow Box for Windows and Red Box for Mac OS X, a joint project to bring Mac OS X APIs to Windows and Windows APIs to Mac OS X. Sound crazy? Not when you think of the software sales opportunities such a collaboration would create. Apple could sell their high-end Pro apps to Windows customers and Microsoft would save money and kill the Mac BU for single app fork development. Apple makes a ton more money off software than they do hardware. This would also be a kick in the balls to Linux, which MS would also enjoy. Think I'm crazy? Well, we'll see won't we. 2007 is going to be a VERY interesting year for Apple.

Umm, well, ok, here goes:

- Connectix and Virtual PC were bought by microsoft for virtualisation technology they had for the Windows version that was about to arrive. Microsoft purchased that so that you can run multiple instances of Windows Server on one machine, all at once - but you have to get a license for each one..

- The Mac BU won't die, no matter what. Apple customers are a crowd who seem to all want to buy MSOffice, and unless that changes they won't do it. Office makes far more money than Windows, remember.

- I'm not even going to go into detail about the 'prediction', because apple signing deals for API development in Windows would be less ikely to happen than big brother UK actually stopping after this year.

[bigandy]

How about this:

Instead of all the typical rumor site babble, one of you should just shutup and go to the dell website, buy a computer with the 'Apple Mac OS X' on it and then see what it actually is.


what? that makes, well, not much sense.

[bigandy]

They are a computer maker, but they competed with Dell as much as Alienware did. Beleive it or not, the iMac and Mac Mini do not have universal appeal. They appeal to different segments of the market.



Apple and the PCs are running the same exact hardware. There are no dedicated mac motherboards anymore.

the iMac, and Mac Mini both have custom logic boards. the MB and MBP 15+17 all have custom logic boards, to fit their enclosures.

they also have EFI, which no other computers on the market have.

how are they the same? how are they not using custom logic boards?

or do you mean they share common components with a few other maufacturers (intel GMA, processor), ATi graphics.. ?

[BenRoethig]

the iMac, and Mac Mini both have custom logic boards. the MB and MBP 15+17 all have custom logic boards, to fit their enclosures.

they also have EFI, which no other computers on the market have.

how are they the same? how are they not using custom logic boards?

or do you mean they share common components with a few other maufacturers (intel GMA, processor), ATi graphics.. ?

There's a difference between a custom form factor and a custom motherboard. The U3 series was custom since it was designed for Apple by Apple. The intel Macs use stock 945GM chipsets, the same one Dell, Gateway, and everybody else use, but with EFI instead of BIOS.

[matticus008]

There's a difference between a custom form factor and a custom motherboard. The U3 series was custom since it was designed for Apple by Apple. The intel Macs use stock 945GM chipsets, the same one Dell, Gateway, and everybody else use, but with EFI instead of BIOS.
The problem is where you define the platform's limits, and the reality is that anything that isn't "out of the box" compatible is off-limits. Unless you can insert the install disc and go with no other modifications, it's not an interchangeable platform. The old Intrepid logic chipsets weren't vastly different in capacity or features than a commodity chipset anyway. As long is there any difference, no matter how slight, Apple can continue to maintain a Macintosh "platform" as being a separate entity from a typical PC.

[BenRoethig]

The problem is where you define the platform's limits, and the reality is that anything that isn't "out of the box" compatible is off-limits. Unless you can insert the install disc and go with no other modifications, it's not an interchangeable platform. The old Intrepid logic chipsets weren't vastly different in capacity or features than a commodity chipset anyway. As long is there any difference, no matter how slight, Apple can continue to maintain a Macintosh "platform" as being a separate entity from a typical PC.

And they will as long as they don't look like one.

[peharri]

The point the OP was trying to make is that when you go buy a disc with Leopard, there are certain legal rights you get with that purchase. Installing it on the hardware of your choice may be one of them.

Today, the only way to get OSX/Intel is to copy one from somebody that bought an Intel Mac which would be very different in the eyes of the court.

More importantly, it's very difficult. I, personally, don't know anyone with an Intel Mac. While Apple's marketshare remains in single digits, I suspect that'll remain the norm. So if I wanted it (and, FWIW, no, I'm not going to install an OS on my Thinkpad I haven't paid the asking price for, and I don't believe anyone should, it cost Apple money to develop OS X), I'd have to download the DVD from the 'net.

Whether it's going to be legal or not, or should be, the practical upshot of the release of Leopard will be that it'll be easy to get hold of everything you need to do a Mac OS X on White Box install. You buy the installer disks from one of the many outlets that will sell it, you download a small installer program from the 'net, and you've got everything you need (assuming your hardware's compatible.)

So Mac OS X on non-Macs is going to happen. The question right now is does Apple wants to cash in on it, or just engage in a fruitless attempt to make it hard.

[ClimbingTheLog]

So Mac OS X on non-Macs is going to happen. The question right now is does Apple wants to cash in on it, or just engage in a fruitless attempt to make it hard.

Well put, peharri.

[TallShaffer]

So how would this happen, the OS can't boot from BIOS.

Eh, it's apple programming, I bet they'll figure a way around it. I still think it's an incredibly stupid move.

[ClimbingTheLog]

So how would this happen, the OS can't boot from BIOS.

What makes you think that? OpenDarwin and Tiger/Intel developer preview both booted on IBMPC BIOS machines.

But I don't think Apple would certify any machine that didn't EFI boot. Nothing prevents Dell from implementing EFI, except the extra half dollar it would add to the cost of a machine.

[BenRoethig]

So how would this happen, the OS can't boot from BIOS.

Eh, it's apple programming, I bet they'll figure a way around it. I still think it's an incredibly stupid move.

But, Windows can boot on EFI using the same implementation Apple uses. No support for BIOS PCs.

[BenRoethig]

So Mac OS X on non-Macs is going to happen. The question right now is does Apple wants to cash in on it, or just engage in a fruitless attempt to make it hard.

That was a given the moment they swtiched to x86 CPUs

[matticus008]

So if I wanted it (and, FWIW, no, I'm not going to install an OS on my Thinkpad I haven't paid the asking price for, and I don't believe anyone should, it cost Apple money to develop OS X), I'd have to download the DVD from the 'net.
Well, by that logic, you'd still need to buy a Mac, because the reason the asking price is so low is because you've already paid part of it via the hardware. Buying the retail disc is an improvement over downloading, but it's still a step away from full reimbursement for their "asking price."

So Mac OS X on non-Macs is going to happen. The question right now is does Apple wants to cash in on it, or just engage in a fruitless attempt to make it hard.
Obviously the fruitless attempt. They can't cash in on it without supporting it, and they can't support it without detracting from their other, more practical endeavours, like making it work more flawlessly on actual Macs. Taking a few simple steps to protect themselves technologically and legally is the minimum that shareholders and most customers expect. The minute they even mention that it might be okay to white box OS X, Macintosh value collapses. Many people will still buy them, but lots won't, and those that are purchased won't be worth much the next day.

[imacintel]

edit-had to change that

WHA???????

People listen to me! Apple listen to me!

IF you license OSX to any PC maker, you are DESTROYING a perfectly good company. Apple is known for thier impeccable hardware quality. Now they wanna go license it to Dell, known for utter crap.

Here is an example.

Honda. It is an excellent car company, and the best part of the cars is the engines.

Ford. Utter crap. So honda goes and gives a similar spec'd Ford, and gives it the engine, and makes ford seem better.

Also, Apple is the most unique company I know. Their unique OS and hardware are what makes apple unique. the way they do things. now license it do dell? Jesus, what kind of fracked up sense does that make.:rolleyes:



God, i needed to vent.:o

[TallShaffer]

Even though I'm not religious, I have one word to say to that imacintel:

Amen.

[ClimbingTheLog]

GOD DAMNIT!!

Whoa, examine the source of your anger there, fella.

IF you license OSX to any PC maker, you are DESTROYING a perfectly good company. Apple is known for thier impeccable hardware quality. Now they wanna go license it to Dell, known for utter crap.

Who makes MacBooks? Apple? No, Apple designs MacBooks. But Asus makes them...

Who makes Dell laptops? They're customized Asus barebones laptops...

Therefore a MacBook is the same quality as a Dell Laptop, right?

The key part of your quote is "If you license OSX to any PC maker". This would be suicide for Apple. If Apple is going to exit the hardware biz OSX will run on Apple Certified Hardware and Apple will control aggressively what gets that logo on it.

Ford. Utter crap. So honda goes and gives a similar spec'd Ford, and gives it the engine, and makes ford seem better.

Good example. Do you think the Aston Martin DB9 Volante is Utter Crap?

Also, Apple is the most unique company I know. Their unique OS and hardware are what makes apple unique. the way they do things.

Other than Jonathan Ives and a great value, what makes a MacBook different than all the other Core Duo laptops out there? OK, the fry-a-lator power cord is nice. Intel is designing these boards now - go look at the developer hardware technote. They've chosen top-notch components but they're all COTS PC-laptop components and you can source a very similar Asus, Clevo or Lenovo rig for similar money. Apple hardware is now "the best Intel has to offer", in nicely shaped plastic.

OSX is where the Rock 'n Roll is happening. Or iPod if that floats your boat.

[matticus008]

Who makes MacBooks? Apple? No, Apple designs MacBooks. But Asus makes them...

Who makes Dell laptops? They're customized Asus barebones laptops...

Therefore a MacBook is the same quality as a Dell Laptop, right?
No. You hit the nail on the head with the Aston Martin example. Ford does a lot of the platform engineering and engine work for Jaguar and almost all of the work in all areas for Lincoln, yet the quality difference is substantial. Companies produce products at different grades for different markets all the time. You can get Grade A beef or Grade C from the same slaughterhouse, and you can get Tier One LCD panels and bargain panels from the same plant, if one needs additional examples.

Also, if someone's going to target a domestic manufacturer for utter crap, it ought to be DaimlerChrysler's American divisions, but that's neither here nor there. :)