Apple Adopts Sony Superdrive?

[MacRumors]

A Macintouch.com reader (http://www.macintouch.com/newsrecent.shtml) and MacBidouille (http://www.macbidouille.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2003-02-19#4786) notes that Apple has adopted a Sony drive for their Superdrive on the new iMac. From Macintouch:


I just purchased a new 1.0 GHz iMac from an Apple store yesterday. To my surprise the Apple System Profiler reported that the DVD drive was not a Pioneer drive, but instead is a Sony DVD RW DW-U10A. Apparently this is a DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, and DVD+RW drive. I had not been aware that Apple changed DVD drive hardware venders.



Apple has previously used a Pioneer drive in the past (for their "Superdrive"), which was limited to DVD-R and DVD-RW formats.

This MacRumors.com thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?threadid=20287) discusses the switch and confirms that the new iMacs use a Sony drive.

[Jaykay]

Well at least Apple are trying epand the abilities of the superdrive, this can only be a good thing.

Its good to see that they're not just 'OEM'ing one vendor.

[Dunepilot]

apparently the "+" formats are only accessible through Toast, it would seem (extrapolating through Macintouch)

But one guy there says he's fitted the Sony drive to an G4 tower, and can't get OS-level burning at all (i.e. he HAS to use Toast, not disc-burner). I hope someone can help him out to get the full functionality, since it seems to be possible under these new iMacs

[alex_ant]

Apple has used TONS of different optical drives, including Sonys. Look at all the drives on the list halfway down this page: http://www.wormintheapple.gr/macdvd/download.html

[arn]

Originally posted by alex_ant
Apple has used TONS of different optical drives, including Sonys. Look at all the drives on the list halfway down this page: http://www.wormintheapple.gr/macdvd/download.html

not for their Superdrive (DVD writer)

arn

[A@ron]

I KNEW there was a reason why my dual 1.25 BTO w/ Superdrive was delayed 3+ weeks. I submitted it as a possible rumor confirmation 3 days ago Arn. As soon as mine comes in I will do an ASP report to see if it is infact a Sony drive. Humm, should I post this on the apple discussion boards to the 30+ people griping about having their machines delayed. Arn I have heard from 4 supervisors that the superdrive is the component that is causing the "supply problems". Fuel for the fire!

A@ron

[vniow]

What about the other models?

Is it just the iMac or is the drive included on the Powermacs and eMacs too?

[MrBillGates]

Quite frankly I have never been impressed with Sony products. Over the past years I've owned a Sony Triniton monitor, MD player, two component CD player, a portable CD player, and a Sony CD-R. All have failed within two years. I hope the Superdrives Apple is installing in their new systems are quality and not typical sony crap.

my .02 cents

[Shrek]

What is DVD+R and DVD+RW? :confused:

[paulie]

Interesting to note that it will do the +R formats as well. I haven't tried it with that yet, but it does write to Apple 4x DVD's fairly quickly, and generic DVD-R 2.0's seem to burn just as fast (great, because you can pick them up for less than a dollar each).

I'll buy some +R media this weekend and see what happens with the OS's burn, and Toast's.

Has anyone here been able to burn to +R or +RW?

[Dunepilot]

I'm inclined to agree with you, Mr Gates. Sony seem to have a great reputation for quality products, but it's completely undeserved.

Their laptops, frequently lauded by internet pundits are total c r a p. I used to work at a major PC retailer about 3 years ago, and we had one shipment of VAIO subnotebooks that were about 75% defective. The feel and build quality of Sony products is often inconsistent with the premium they get away with charging.

(I think you should have gone with a Diamondtron)

Hopefully since these drives won't get much physical wear they may be okay... DVD+RW seems to be winning the format war at the moment, and having that option on a Mac is a great thing.


Originally posted by MrBillGates
Quite frankly I have never been impressed with Sony products. Over the past years I've owned a Sony Triniton monitor, MD player, two component CD player, a portable CD player, and a Sony CD-R. All have failed within two years. I hope the Superdrives Apple is installing in their new systems are quality and not typical sony crap.

my .02 cents :( :(

[macquariumguy]

Wow, I love Trinitron monitors. I've got a 16" Apple RGB that saw constant use for 10 years and still works. We use 4 of them (17") now on our 2 computers.

Assuming the new drive holds up, adopting a drive that does both DVD~R formats can only be a good thing.

[Dunepilot]

It's a format of DVD that Philips and Dell and Hewlett Packard and others are supporting. Previously Apple has supported only DVD-R/DVD-RW (known as DVD minus) drives.

Think back to betmax versus VHS and you get the idea.


Originally posted by Shrek
What is DVD+R and DVD+RW? :confused:

[Shrek]

Originally posted by Dunepilot
It's a format of DVD that Philips and Dell and Hewlett Packard and others are supporting. Previously Apple has supported only DVD-R/DVD-RW (known as DVD minus) drives.

Think back to betmax versus VHS and you get the idea.

Does it have more capacity or what?

BTW, you should the post you're replying to above your reply and not below it, just like I'm doing. ;)

[bentmywookie]

Originally posted by MrBillGates
Quite frankly I have never been impressed with Sony products. Over the past years I've owned a Sony Triniton monitor, MD player, two component CD player, a portable CD player, and a Sony CD-R. All have failed within two years. I hope the Superdrives Apple is installing in their new systems are quality and not typical sony crap.

my .02 cents

That's interesting. My family and I have a lot of sony products and I feel like they last pretty well. I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, it's just interesting that we have totally contrasting experiences.

I guess this post is slight OT - sorry. I think it's great that these new drives have more functionality than the Pioneers.

[Dunepilot]

Originally posted by Shrek
Does it have more capacity or what?

BTW, you should the post you're replying to above your reply and not below it, just like I'm doing. ;)

yeah yeah:D

i'm answering you questions, what more do you want?;)

i don't know about the capacity difference. I assume it's about the same (4.7 Gig) though I may be wrong. I have a standalone Philips DVD+RW recorder, and that records an hour on one DVD, fully uncompressed (which is supposed to be higher quality that commercial DVD movies). You can also chose to record at the same quality as prerecorded films (2hrs) and various longer-play settings also.

What is interesting, and important, is that the combo drives in both my Mac and my dad's won't read the + media, so getting a sony superdrive might be a good idea for my household, for transferring the media.

[Mr. MacPhisto]

Originally posted by MrBillGates
Quite frankly I have never been impressed with Sony products. Over the past years I've owned a Sony Triniton monitor, MD player, two component CD player, a portable CD player, and a Sony CD-R. All have failed within two years. I hope the Superdrives Apple is installing in their new systems are quality and not typical sony crap.

my .02 cents

Funny what different experiences we have. I swear by Sony. Have had DVD Players, CDs, TVs, Monitors, CD-Rs, etc and have never once had a failure. Sony's quality is actually better than most the competition out there, especially Panasonic, Magnavox, Mitsubishi, and, yes, Pioneer. Most people I know have never had any problem with a Sony product. Hardly crap, maybe you've just got some bad luck with them.

[ChicagoMac]

I just bought the new 1ghz imac and it has a pioneer dvd-rw dvr-105. No Sony in mine!

[Shrek]

Originally posted by ChicagoMac
I just bought the new 1ghz imac and it has a pioneer dvd-rw dvr-105. No Sony in mine!

Call Apple and tell them and perhaps they'll send out a technician to replace the drive. ;)

[Maclicious]

Ok, I doubt this is even possible with the slot loading drive, but am I wrong? Could the new 17 inch AluBooks come with this sony drive?

[Dunepilot]

"I just bought the new 1ghz imac and it has a pioneer dvd-rw dvr-105. No Sony in mine!"

sorry to hear that. it's amazing how much of the componentry in modern computers varies. Obviously Apple are generally better in this respect than most wintel manufacturers, since they want to deliver maximum hardware/software integration, but it surprises me all the time nonetheless.

[RonyD]

But one guy there says he's fitted the Sony drive to an G4 tower, and can't get OS-level burning at all (i.e. he HAS to use Toast, not disc-burner). I hope someone can help him out to get the full functionality, since it seems to be possible under these new iMacs

Did he report anything about being able to load iDVD 2 or 3 with the Sony drive in his tower? It would stand to reason that iDVD3 must work on these new iMacs with the Sony drive.

Ron
---
PMAC Dual 1Ghz MDD

[richlen]

So why then is mine a Pioneer? I was at the Apple store tonight, went thru the whole store and they were all pioneers? Whats up...why would ONE have a sony? Besides, iLife products dont record to DVD+R/RW. I'd like to get further confirmation on this.

[ChicagoMac]

Hey, no need to feel sorry for me. I could care less who made the drive as long as it's in a Mac and it works. I would like more confirmation on this too. Anyone else have the new 17" and want to check their superdrive specs?

[Dunepilot]

Originally posted by RonyD
Did he report anything about being able to load iDVD 2 or 3 with the Sony drive in his tower? It would stand to reason that iDVD3 must work on these new iMacs with the Sony drive.

Ron
---
PMAC Dual 1Ghz MDD

I would suggest you head over to www.macintouch.com and watch the saga unfold.

Along with this site, it's probably my favourite mac site

[Linksgolfer84]

I too just got a 1 Ghz iMac, but it has a pioneer drive. It seems to me that a majority of people posting here have pioneers. If Apple indeed has started installing sony drives in the new iMacs it comes as a suprise that they didn't make the full transition with the new line of iMacs. It could have been a major selling point to some people to be able to burn DVD's in all available formats. As an aside, does anyone know of an application that allows for backing up dvd movies? I have read about DVD X copy for windows, and I was wondering if there is a similar app for OSX.

[A@ron]

Here is my following $ .02,
It is entirely possible that apple used up their supply of pioneer drives in early orders of the powermacs and since all new powermacs with the superdrive BTO are backordered with supply problems with one of the components. The transition seems to be on the way but if you have excess Pioneer drives you'll use them before you include a different drive. We shall see when I get my new Powermac what drive I get but Im not entirely sure it matters all that much.

A@ron

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by Dunepilot
I have a standalone Philips DVD+RW recorder, and that records an hour on one DVD, fully uncompressed (which is supposed to be higher quality that commercial DVD movies). You can also chose to record at the same quality as prerecorded films (2hrs) and various longer-play settings also.
Fully uncompressed?!?!? I don't think so.

Maybe low compression, but NTSC video, fully uncompressed would fill a 4.7 GB (Single layer) in less than 5 minutes!

Heck, MiniDV camcorders, which use DV25 compression, fill about 12GB per hour.

A quick Google search turns up this link as data to back up this claim: http://www.videotexsystems.com/videorate.htm

[rDLr]

Originally posted by Dunepilot
yeah yeah:D

I have a standalone Philips DVD+RW recorder, and that records an hour on one DVD, fully uncompressed (which is supposed to be higher quality that commercial DVD movies). You can also chose to record at the same quality as prerecorded films (2hrs) and various longer-play settings also.


Way off subject, but I wanted to clarify that it is not uncompressed. Uncompressed video is about 1 minute per gigabyte! The DVD standards allow for 9.8 Kb/s of data per second. If your movie is maxed out at 9.8 at a constant bit rate, you can fit about an hour of video on a 4.7 GB disc. Hollywood movies usually squeeze about 90 minutes onto one side or about 3 hours onto a dual layered disc. They use a variable bit rate 2 pass encode to compress the data more. This method usually yeilds better results than a 1 pass constant bit rate since the analization algorythms (sp?) are so advanced. When a scene is complex it will use a higher bit rate, and when there is redundant data it is thrown out. Anyway, I hope this makes more sense to you now.:)

[Dunepilot]

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
Fully uncompressed?!?!? I don't think so.

Maybe low compression, but NTSC video, fully uncompressed would fill a 4.7 GB (Single layer) in less than 5 minutes!

Heck, MiniDV camcorders, which use DV25 compression, fill about 12GB per hour.

A quick Google search turns up this link as data to back up this claim: http://www.videotexsystems.com/videorate.htm

point taken. What I should have said was that with the least compression this is what you get. you're right, the raw DV would take up a lot of space. anyhow, i was really just illustrating what a domestic DVD+RW can do

[Dunepilot]

Originally posted by rDLr
Way off subject, but I wanted to clarify that it is not uncompressed. Uncompressed video is about 1 minute per gigabyte! The DVD standards allow for 9.8 Kb/s of data per second. If your movie is maxed out at 9.8 at a constant bit rate, you can fit about an hour of video on a 4.7 GB disc. Hollywood movies usually squeeze about 90 minutes onto one side or about 3 hours onto a dual layered disc. They use a variable bit rate 2 pass encode to compress the data more. This method usually yeilds better results than a 1 pass constant bit rate since the analization algorythms (sp?) are so advanced. When a scene is complex it will use a higher bit rate, and when there is redundant data it is thrown out. Anyway, I hope this makes more sense to you now.:)

Sorry for the double-post.

I just thought I'd add that you can really see the VBR on a computer monitor on a typical prerecorded DVD. they do suggest that you use the one-hour format for best results, when recording your own DVD+RWs on the Philips machine we have

[eric_n_dfw]

A little off topic, but cool...

In case you didn't know, iDVD will burn to a DVD-RW -- with a little coaxing :-)

Click the Burn button in iDVD and put in a blank DVD-R disk when asked. After it verifies the disk and starts the "Rendering Menus..." process, hit "Eject" (or F-12) to eject the DVD-R. Replace it with a DVD-RW disk and iDVD will not know any better - it burns the DVD-RW just fine.

Whether or not your DVD player will read it is a separate issue though! (My 4 year old Sony does FWIW)

Then, if you like the results, you can copy the disk with Toast to DVD-R and use the DVD-RW again. It's a lot nicer to proof your work without making coasters!

Note: The DVD-RW must be erased (or brand new) before putting it in.

[blueBomber]

cool

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by Dunepilot
Sorry for the double-post.

I just thought I'd add that you can really see the VBR on a computer monitor on a typical prerecorded DVD. they do suggest that you use the one-hour format for best results, when recording your own DVD+RWs on the Philips machine we have
Don't mean to sound nit-pickey here, but do you really mean VBR? Variable Bit Rate encoding is what most Hollywood DVD's use to allow more to fit. iDVD and most low-end compression software doesn't support that. That's why they lock you to 60, 90 or 120 Mins. With true VBR, the amount of footage you can fit on the disk is unknown until you actually apply the compression as it compresses more or less based on how much it can "get away with." (The less on-screen movement, the more compression that piece of the movie gets)
I'd be surprised if a consumer DVD writer offered that level of compression sophistication.

You probaby meant you can more easily see compression artifacts on the computer - which is normal as a computer monitor would be a much sharper image than most televisions.

FWIW: I've read that some of the high end hardware VBR compressors actually compress at real-time (1:1) speed and then will go back through, comparing the uncompressed original to the compressesed version. When some threshold of difference is found between the two, it re-compresses that section to achive the best bit rate for every frame of the movie. (I also have heard that big budget DVD's have people that watch every frame of the DVD, looking for any degredation. Talk about a boring job!!! "Ohh - I see an artifact, right there by that tree!" :rolleyes:

When I said real-time (1:1) speed, I meant that they can churn out VBR compressed data for 60 minutes of footage in 60 minutes. (I'd venture to bet there's uber-high end hardware that'll do it faster than real time too)

[the_ron]

There's a Pioneer in my new iMac too. We ordered it the day it came out.

[Dunepilot]

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
Don't mean to sound nit-pickey here, but do you really mean VBR? Variable Bit Rate encoding is what most Hollywood DVD's use to allow more to fit. iDVD and most low-end compression software doesn't support that. That's why they lock you to 60, 90 or 120 Mins. With true VBR, the amount of footage you can fit on the disk is unknown until you actually apply the compression as it compresses more or less based on how much it can "get away with." (The less on-screen movement, the more compression that piece of the movie gets)
I'd be surprised if a consumer DVD writer offered that level of compression sophistication.

You probaby meant you can more easily see compression artifacts on the computer - which is normal as a computer monitor would be a much sharper image than most televisions.

FWIW: I've read that some of the high end hardware VBR compressors actually compress at real-time (1:1) speed and then will go back through, comparing the uncompressed original to the compressesed version. When some threshold of difference is found between the two, it re-compresses that section to achive the best bit rate for every frame of the movie. (I also have heard that big budget DVD's have people that watch every frame of the DVD, looking for any degredation. Talk about a boring job!!! "Ohh - I see an artifact, right there by that tree!" :rolleyes:

When I said real-time (1:1) speed, I meant that they can churn out VBR compressed data for 60 minutes of footage in 60 minutes. (I'd venture to bet there's uber-high end hardware that'll do it faster than real time too)

Looks like I might learn something tonight... ;)

When I was saying about the artifacts, I was referring specifically to prerecorded holywood DVDs, which, to be honest, look crap on my PowerMac and its 17" flat panel.

Are you saying then that the artifacts are not caused by VBR? I assumed it was VBR causing them, since they generally appear in areas of static colour (which tend to go really blocky and pixellated).

I wasn't trying to suggest that VBR was available to the consumer in my previous posts, but you've raised my interest in compression now! Does the encoding of a DVD by a superdrive work like compression of DV to Quicktime, using a patented codec (analagous to Sorenson or whatever), and does this mean that VBR isn't used in any sense?

I look forward to reading your replies tomorrow morning. I'm off to bed (zzzzzzzzzzzz)

God, I've helped take this one WAY off topic

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by Dunepilot
God, I've helped take this one WAY off topic I'm headed to bed too - take a look at this FAQ (which I found a while back while reading www.2-pop.com DVD authoring forums)

http://user850490.wx8.registeredsite.com/features/dvdfaq.asp

[bignumbers]

I always suspected Apple would switch to a more versatile drive at some point. DVD-RW is nice, and reasonably compatible with consumer players for video. DVD+RW, though, is better for data storage. It's been a while since I've read into it but I believe it supports full packet writing (so you can write to it directly like a zip disk instead of a one-off burn or sessions).

Then again, Apple just might be multi-sourcing, which is a very good idea. They may never, or not for a while, directly support DVD+RW. Maybe they just had a hard time getting the hot DVR-105's, or got a good deal from Sony.

FYI, this is NOT the first non-Pioneer SuperDrive. I believe the superdrives in powerbooks are made by Toshiba, as Pioneer never shipped a slot-loading model. There was some coverage of this at <http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/> .

[timbloom]

Originally posted by Maclicious
Ok, I doubt this is even possible with the slot loading drive, but am I wrong? Could the new 17 inch AluBooks come with this sony drive?

no

[ivtrk]

.

[StarmanDeluxe]

Just got a 1 GHz Imac, too, and I have a Sony SuperDrive. Its "Product Identification" is "DVD RW DW-U1OA."

Just so you know :)

[Chisholm]

My wife's new 1 gig iMac (17") has a Pioneer. It is not a BTO, rather a stock Apple Store machine. Could that have something to do with the somewhat random discrepancies? I've had a dual 1.42 G4 on order since they were announced. Still a 4-6 week delay. Or was it 6-8 weeks initially?

hhmm.

cheers kids!
-john

[chewbaccapits]

Originally posted by richlen
So why then is mine a Pioneer?


Genetics.

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by bignumbers
I always suspected Apple would switch to a more versatile drive at some point. DVD-RW is nice, and reasonably compatible with consumer players for video. DVD+RW, though, is better for data storage. It's been a while since I've read into it but I believe it supports full packet writing (so you can write to it directly like a zip disk instead of a one-off burn or sessions).


AFAIK DVD-RAM is the only DVD flavor that can be written directly to.


Lethal

[gordon123]

my new 17" imac has a sony drive. just wondering....do you think this means that dvd's that I burn will be compatible with more dvd players? What are the major pluses to having a sony drive vs a pioneer?

[RonyD]

Originally posted by gordon123
my new 17" imac has a sony drive. just wondering....do you think this means that dvd's that I burn will be compatible with more dvd players? What are the major pluses to having a sony drive vs a pioneer?

With the Sony, you would have the ability to burn DVD+R and DVD+RW (using Toast). You would also be able to burn at 24x for CD-R and 10x for CD-RW. These speeds are higher than the Pioneer A05.

Ron

[tsugaru]

gordon, can you post a screenshot of your Apple System Profiler in Devices?

This'll be interesting if Apple abandons Pioneer in favor of Sony.

[Funkatation]

I posted on monday that I had a sony drive in my new imac... looks like no one replied :P

[macphoria]

I wonder if Apple is trying to do this. If you are making a movie, use DVD-R media. And if you are saving data you have to use DVD+R/RW.

For example, if you were using iDVD, and click Burn, it would only accept DVD-R media. And if you are in Finder, it would only accept DVD+R/RW media.

[Funkatation]

that's doubtful. the DVD+R's can be read in most dvd players too, its just a competing standard. it could just be a case of suppliers offering drives cheaper. and don't forget that apple has shipped most of their computers with DVD-R drives, I hope they wouldn't leave them out in the cold.

[PyroTurtle]

+R doens't work in older drive...definately not in my RCA's, but it does in some of the newer players, i agree with that

i think Apple ran out of the Phillips drive and just threw some sony's in cause they were cheap....just a thought....

[reflex]

Originally posted by MrBillGates
Quite frankly I have never been impressed with Sony products. Over the past years I've owned a Sony Triniton monitor, MD player, two component CD player, a portable CD player, and a Sony CD-R. All have failed within two years. I hope the Superdrives Apple is installing in their new systems are quality and not typical sony crap.

my .02 cents

I'm right now looking at the Sony Trinitron monitor I bought 3 years ago. Still going as strong as ever. In my computer is a Sony cdrom drive that's also almost 3 years old. No problems.

Maybe you just got unlucky.

[dstorey]

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
In case you didn't know, iDVD will burn to a DVD-RW -- with a little coaxing :-)


I wonder why Apple supply dvd-rw drives and you have to use such a stupid un-apple like work around to get the os to burn to rw without such things as toast. Maybe they just wanna sell more of Apple$ cd-r discs as with dvd-rw discs you can keep on using them. I hope they arn't starting to think like that. I can't think of any other reason why they wouldn't support it, unless the ability will be added in a future update, but then again iLife has already just been updated...

[bignumbers]

For those interested in differences (and compatibilities) between formats, a good site is:

<http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#4.3>

[bikertwin]

iDVD 3 will write to DVD-RW without doing the DVD-R shuffle. Just put in a blank or erased DVD-RW at the beginning and it won't complain.

More information about DVD+R/+RW can be had at http://www.dvdplusrw.org

I wish iDVD would support the Sony drive.

[TheInevitable]

Originally posted by MrBillGates
Quite frankly I have never been impressed with Sony products. Over the past years I've owned a Sony Triniton monitor, MD player, two component CD player, a portable CD player, and a Sony CD-R. All have failed within two years. I hope the Superdrives Apple is installing in their new systems are quality and not typical sony crap.

my .02 cents

I got your back on that one. Sony does have an undeserving reputation for quality. While with some products, the reputation holds true, other products are crap. My Sony DVD player crapped out on me after less than 2 years. And I've had a couple CD players in the past break down in shorter time than I expect from a "quality" product.

But as far as PCs go, I think if you're going to own one, get a Sony. In my opinion, Sony is the Apple of the PC world.

Now back on topic. I have mixed experiences with Sony drives. Though I've never owned a DVD burner, I've owned Sony CD-ROM and Sony CD-R/W. The CD-ROM will continue to work for another hundred years, but the CD-R/W (USB Sony Spressa) only worked for about one year, and was sketchy for that year that it worked. I had more failed burns than successful, but I know that there are other factors at play there.

My $0.03.

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by dstorey
I wonder why Apple supply dvd-rw drives and you have to use such a stupid un-apple like work around to get the os to burn to rw without such things as toast. Maybe they just wanna sell more of Apple$ cd-r discs as with dvd-rw discs you can keep on using them. I hope they arn't starting to think like that. I can't think of any other reason why they wouldn't support it, unless the ability will be added in a future update, but then again iLife has already just been updated...
I would asume it's because many older DVD players don't work with DVD-RW's and they don't want the headache of people calling in with complaints of incompatibility.

I'd venture a guess that they will soon start officially supporting DVD-RW - especially since most DVD players will take them now-a-days.

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by bikertwin
iDVD 3 will write to DVD-RW without doing the DVD-R shuffle. Just put in a blank or erased DVD-RW at the beginning and it won't complain.

I could swear that it complained and spit the blank DVD-RW out when I first tried it. I'll have to check that when I get home tonight.

[Anticipat3]

I find it surprising that nobody has mentioned this, but my 12" powerbook's superdrive is also not made by pioneer - it's Mat****a brand... ID's as MAT****A DVD-R UJ-815.

I haven't actually tried burning any DVDs with it yet, so I can't comment on its performance in those matters, but iTunes has said that it has been burning Audio CDs at 24x.... which differs from the 8x that Apple lists on their site for audio CD burn speeds of the 12's Superdrive.

Anybody know what the lowdown is on this?

[gordon123]

here is a grab of my sony drive info:

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Anticipat3
I find it surprising that nobody has mentioned this, but my 12" powerbook's superdrive is also not made by pioneer - it's Mat****a brand... ID's as MAT****A DVD-R UJ-815.

I haven't actually tried burning any DVDs with it yet, so I can't comment on its performance in those matters, but iTunes has said that it has been burning Audio CDs at 24x.... which differs from the 8x that Apple lists on their site for audio CD burn speeds of the 12's Superdrive.

Anybody know what the lowdown is on this?

Either you have the combo drive and haven't realized it or you are reading the read speed and not the write speed.

[fiuman]

Bought my iMac two days ago in Germany. Sony Superdrive inside. (lucky me ;)
As me being a 'Switch' user, the thing that iMac had minus standard anoyed me really much, especially when you're not able to change the drive. Yes, yes... buy external firewire burner, but that's not it, not the same box. Anyway, now that I read this article, I'm more than happy man, will go to shop tomorrow and buy some +R/+RW media just for a laugh.

fiuman

[A@ron]

Originally posted by Anticipat3
I find it surprising that nobody has mentioned this, but my 12" powerbook's superdrive is also not made by pioneer - it's Mat****a brand... ID's as MAT****A DVD-R UJ-815.

I haven't actually tried burning any DVDs with it yet, so I can't comment on its performance in those matters, but iTunes has said that it has been burning Audio CDs at 24x.... which differs from the 8x that Apple lists on their site for audio CD burn speeds of the 12's Superdrive.

Anybody know what the lowdown is on this?

Mat*****a is panasonic IIRC the cd drives in the older iBooks were Mat*****a... I don't think you have the superdrive I think you have the combo drive. It then makes sense because the combo drive is made by mat*****a... PS Arn can we make it so Mat*****a isn't Mat****a?

A@ron

[timbloom]

I have seen confirmation of a sony superdrive at a local apple store, so I take back any doubts that I had about this rumor being true. But does bring up one question: Why would apple make this change inside of the product cycle rather than waiting till the next revision? My personal guess is that it was substantially lower in price, and seems like an impressive drive.

[flyfish29]

Originally posted by MrBillGates
Quite frankly I have never been impressed with Sony products. Over the past years I've owned a Sony Triniton monitor, MD player, two component CD player, a portable CD player, and a Sony CD-R. All have failed within two years. I hope the Superdrives Apple is installing in their new systems are quality and not typical sony crap.

my .02 cents

I have had nothing but great experiences with Sony except for a car stereo I bought almost 20 years ago. Everything else I own that is Sony is terrific! Digital camera, video camera, two CD jam boxes, walkman, etc. all purchased withing the last 4 years.

I think the real truth here is that we are talking about electronics and there are always defective electronics...I have had much better luck with Sony and Samsung products than any other electronics companies. I am not saying you have not had bad expereinces with Sony, but I have had many friends that have also had very positive ones as well. Hopefully your expereinces are not a significant indication of major quality issues with Sony.

Unfortunately almost all electronics right now are made so cheaply that they don't last long. I was skiing with someone the other day and he said he considers all electronics very disposable...use it for a year or two then toss it and buy a new one. Sad, but true for most...that Walmart mentality...cheaper is better. These are the same people that say I would rather buy three DVD players for $59 each at Walmart every nine months than pay the extra for one good quality DVD player and have it last three or more years. In the end these people pay more for their products, but they are able to spread it out over time...which I guess is important for them...but sad for the dumps that have to take all three DVD players instead of one.:mad:

Good luck with your future electronics purchases.:D

[steeleclipse]

It is good to see that other people were suspicious of the new iMacs using Sony drives. I worked in consumer electronics before, and 80% of the defective stuff that came back was Sony.

The reason is because Sony, like most companies, farm out there products to smaller companies. The thing is, while most farm their products out to quality companies, Sony is constantly using companies that charge the least to manufacture their products. It is said that they do this to cover the cost of replacing defective merchandise, as they have figured out that it is cheaper in the long run to do it this way.

A Sony sales rep told me this!

Now, if you buy a crappy product, just because there is a lower price point, you are more accepting when that product breaks down.

That is were Sony falls short: they charge premium prices, try to promote a premium image, while distributing sub-standard goods. People are catching on, though. Towards the end of my jaunt in the retail sales world, I heard a lot of, "Just anything but Sony."

[Falcon500]

Originally posted by A@ron
Mat*****a is panasonic IIRC the cd drives in the older iBooks were Mat*****a... I don't think you have the superdrive I think you have the combo drive. It then makes sense because the combo drive is made by mat*****a... PS Arn can we make it so Mat*****a isn't Mat****a?

A@ron

Yes Mat****a is panasonic...You were right about that, but Anticipat3's posting about his 12" powerbook having a Mat****a superdrive (DVD-R UJ-815) is correct. He has the model number correct as well. The drive is suppose to be a multiformat drive (DVD-r/rw & ram) but apple have restricted its burning capabilities by using a different firmware.

More info about the drive here:
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/archives/nov02/112202.html

[fiuman]

Originally posted by steeleclipse
People are catching on, though. Towards the end of my jaunt in the retail sales world, I heard a lot of, "Just anything but Sony."

Hm... well... If we would be talking about the HiFi or such products, I'd say the same as well. We are talking about consumer products. It's crap, it will always be, as simple as that. Would you like to pay additional 400$ for Plextor burner (if they had such a super feature drive?) Me not.

[MorganX]

Originally posted by steeleclipse
It is good to see that other people were suspicious of the new iMacs using Sony drives. I worked in consumer electronics before, and 80% of the defective stuff that came back was Sony.

The reason is because Sony, like most companies, farm out there products to smaller companies. The thing is, while most farm their products out to quality companies, Sony is constantly using companies that charge the least to manufacture their products. It is said that they do this to cover the cost of replacing defective merchandise, as they have figured out that it is cheaper in the long run to do it this way.

A Sony sales rep told me this!

Now, if you buy a crappy product, just because there is a lower price point, you are more accepting when that product breaks down.

That is were Sony falls short: they charge premium prices, try to promote a premium image, while distributing sub-standard goods. People are catching on, though. Towards the end of my jaunt in the retail sales world, I heard a lot of, "Just anything but Sony."

Sony does have more than its fair share of low budget products targeted at that segment. But I have a 2yr old 32" Sony Vega Flat Screen TV and other brands still can't touch the picture quality. Not even a hint of a problem.

[steeleclipse]

First of all, its SONY "WEGA", and be prepared for problems. THe last move that was made on the "WEGA" line was production facilities being sent down to Mexico to save money, and ALL "WEGA" warranties were reduced from 2 years to 1.

HMMMMMMM.... Don't you find that strange? :)

[moby1]

FYI - I got to use one of the new 1 GHz iMacs at my local Apple Store. The iMac there had a Sony drive too. I burned a couple of DVD's with Toast (I had my PowerBook set up in FireWire target disk mode) and they burned quite successfully at 4X, verified too, took less than 10 min./disk.

A note about iDVD 3...

I got the iLife disk and went to install iDVD 3. The install requires (drum roll please) ** 2 GB of free space**. I'd already partitioned my drive and although I had the space on other volumes, I didn't have it on the OS X volume - the only volume it'd choose. I had to install a 2nd OS X on an empty volume and then install iDVD there and then copy iDVD over to another volume and finally format the previously empty volume. it took about an hour...

[MorganX]

Originally posted by steeleclipse
First of all, its SONY "WEGA", and be prepared for problems. THe last move that was made on the "WEGA" line was production facilities being sent down to Mexico to save money, and ALL "WEGA" warranties were reduced from 2 years to 1.

HMMMMMMM.... Don't you find that strange? :)

I prefer to spell it the way it is pronounced.

I don't find it strange. No stranger than powerbooks being produced by the same manufacturers that make the vast majority of PC laptops.

[steeleclipse]

It IS pronounced "WEGA"

Either that or the Sony Rep. , all my co-workers and the Sony commercials have it all wrong.

[Falcon500]

So has anyone tried burning a DVD+R/RW? Either in the Finder or Toast (preferably both). This drive maybe a dual DVD format drive but Apple may have limited its abilities with firmware so the drive will only burn -R/RW.

[RonyD]

Originally posted by Falcon500
So has anyone tried burning a DVD+R/RW? Either in the Finder or Toast (preferably both). This drive maybe a dual DVD format drive but Apple may have limited its abilities with firmware so the drive will only burn -R/RW.

I can burn in Toast with my DRU500A, but this drive was simply an external firewire device that I moved over from my PC, so it doesn't speak to Apple possibly changing the firmware on their version of the Sony drive. In toast, the Sony dual format burners are fully supported.

Rony

[Falcon500]

Originally posted by RonyD
I can burn in Toast with my DRU500A, but this drive was simply an external firewire device that I moved over from my PC, so it doesn't speak to Apple possibly changing the firmware on their version of the Sony drive. In toast, the Sony dual format burners are fully supported.

Rony

Cheers Rony....Has anyone had any luck yet with the DW-U10A and +R/RW discs?

[jhess]

This might sound like a stupid question, but how do you determine what kind of drive your iMac has? I'm new to Macs, and couldn't figure it out last night.

[macphoria]

Look for SYSTEM PROFILER application in your APPLICATIONS folder (either Applications or Applications OS 9).

[fiuman]

Hello everybody... bad news...

Just bought two above mentioned mediums and tried them out. Didn't work out very well.
When I inserted DVD+R medium, CD Info said that this is an Recordable CD in with size of 4.4 GB. So, I assume than you can burn data on the disk, do not know if it would work from iDVD.
More interesting: info for DVD+RW medium brought back an error saying that it could not get the disk size, reporting some sense codes and stuff. :(((

Firmware revision on my drive is A13b. Anyone in posession of something else? Can one ask Apple to provide a new firmware?

cheers

[AllenPSU]

Originally posted by Shrek
What is DVD+R and DVD+RW? :confused:

DVD+R and DVD+RW are logically correct formats for video. See http://www.dvdrw.com for more on why some think this is important.

Also note that DVD format size is measured in bytes so 4.7GB is actually only 47000000bytes or more commonly known as 4.4 Gigabytes. Total capacity doesn't change on format type but burn rate is typically slower for "+" format. Theory is that home DVD players have an easier time reading "+" format.

[davedive]

Originally posted by fiuman
Hello everybody... bad news...

Just bought two above mentioned mediums and tried them out. Didn't work out very well.
When I inserted DVD+R medium, CD Info said that this is an Recordable CD in with size of 4.4 GB. So, I assume than you can burn data on the disk, do not know if it would work from iDVD.
More interesting: info for DVD+RW medium brought back an error saying that it could not get the disk size, reporting some sense codes and stuff. :(((

Firmware revision on my drive is A13b. Anyone in posession of something else? Can one ask Apple to provide a new firmware?

cheers

This doesn't look too bad i would think. Could this be the case ? : You can burn data to DVD+R (formatted drive in hfs = 4,25 gb i suppose) and you should maybe format the DVD+RW first ?? (don't know where or how this could be done)

Could you try in idvd what it does with the DVD+R (probably best to put the disk in first, then start iDVD as with the -RW disks?)

Thanks

[davedive]

Hello,

looks like not all is lost :

DVD-R media does not need to be formatted.
The DVD-RW specification leaves formatting to the software on the computer (this is only for the DVD-RW media). The sony drive (previous version to the one in the imacs 'DRU-500A') has pc-software that allows for formatting DVD-RW media in the background : on the mac i suppose idvd takes care of that.

DVD+R media needs no formatting either.
DVD+RW media needs formatting BUT the firmware of the station itself takes care of the formatting, so that (i suppose with the sony software on peecee's only) after about 1 minute you can 'theoretically' copie files to the media. Theoretically, because the sony peecee software has a 'temporary' place for saving the 'copied files'. After the station has finished formatting, the actual files are written to the media.

So because idvd doesn't know about all this (starts formatting the media but can't perform the operation because of different info on the media itself (what are they, what is the max. speed ...) to the DVD-RW specification.

Maybe : if you put a DVD+RW media in the drive, and wait for say 1 hour, and then start idvd???...

Just a thought

Please let us know what works, and what doesn't

Davedive

P.S. i didn't find this out myself : found it in a flemish magazine.

[janithw]

Greetings and thanks in advance...

I have 350MHz PowerPC G4 with only a CD-ROM drive.

I want to replace it with a DVD (etc.) drive. What are my options? Is my G4 too slow? Do I need all the formats?

Help! Just a wee bit overwhelmed!!!:confused:

[richlen]

Janweth, your machine is fine. Purchase a Cendyne DVR105 (its really a Pioneer Superdrive DVR-A05)--its 2X speed. They can be found at Staples, Office Max or on the web. When on sale they run about $200. ESBuy.com has the Pioneer for around $230. You can pick up the Pioneer 2X version eiher by Cendyne or Pioneer DVR-103/A03 or DVR-104/A04 for less. Make sure you are running the latest version of Jaguar. Remnove your old drive, insert the new and voila. Your machine's not slow though iDVD isnt exactly speedy on any machine.

It's that easy! rich

[MaxArturo]

If it did, I really wouldn't mind burning my Annie Lennox on a sony. I used to own only Sony before and was happy. Apple just makes me happier.

[MaxArturo]

If it did, I really wouldn't mind burning my Annie Lennox on a sony. I used to own only Sony before and was happy. Apple just makes me happier.