No New Hardware

[arn]

This MacCentral article (http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0202/11.applehardware.php) quotes an Apple official regarding future hardware.

The report indicates that Apple will not introduce new hardware in the coming months... since they have just upgraded their hardware lines over the past few months.

Of particular note, Joswiak notes that the G4 has a long life ahead of it... somewhat confirming the general rumblings that we won't see G5 until MWSF 2003.

[Ensign Paris]

Thats a shame, ignore my other thread i hadn't noticed this one. Infact I may delete it.

Guy

[keithcobbett]

I believe this story, but I feel real bad and confused. Why would they release this info if they never talk about hardware releases before an expo???? I was really hoping for another PB update, but hopefully in NY we will see it. NY definately could use some positive excitement.

[whfsdude]

If they want to attract new users they need to have good machines. I hope that was not a fact, maybe it was more of his opion.

[arn]

Originally posted by whfsdude
If they want to attract new users they need to have good machines. I hope that was not a fact, maybe it was more of his opion.

They can't update machines every 2 months...

let's be realistic.

arn

[Unregistered]

What about a light update of the iBook?
The logic board supports G3s with up to 700 MHz.

[Falleron]

The ibook has just been updated (Larger screens). Anyway, they cant use IBM's new chips until the powerbook gets its G4 chips updated to match.

[whfsdude]

Originally posted by arn


They can't update machines every 2 months...

let's be realistic.

arn

What about the TiBook?

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by keithcobbett
I believe this story, but I feel real bad and confused. Why would they release this info if they never talk about hardware releases before an expo???? I was really hoping for another PB update, but hopefully in NY we will see it. NY definately could use some positive excitement.

well, a lot of what is here are rumors and in some cases, clever misinformation...perhaps from apple inc

[udannlin]

Originally posted by whfsdude
If they want to attract new users they need to have good machines.

And you are suggesting that the Dual 1 Ghz is not a good machine? I don't get some of you.....

[unclepain]

Jobs did the same things for the Paris Expo last fall. Everyone got all torqued off when he didn't announce flat panel iMacs at MWNY last summer. To head off any disappointment, he announced the same thing that this marketing fellow did. No New Hardware. Basically they are telling all the rumor-sluts to not get their panties in a wad over the next expo. It's funny though, cause I guess their new policy is to tell us when stuff isn't coming out now, which leads us to believe that if they don't say anything then something cool is coming. Or, even worse- maybe they will start a regular policy of over-hyping the expos ala San Francisco when anything new is coming. That would suck.

"Coming Next Week! The Most Super fantastic computing device EVER!!!!"

{Unclepain gets all excited.... sleepless nights.... dreams about uber fantastic world changing device that propels Apple to the forefront of computing world in profit, marketshare, and quality.}

Next week.....

"Apple Announces iPod with 7 gig hard drive!!!!!"

{Unclepain sighs}

[whfsdude]

Originally posted by udannlin


And you are suggesting that the Dual 1 Ghz is not a good machine? I don't get some of you.....

Well in a couple months the Dual 1 Ghz won't be a good machine, if you a pc user looking at specs it's not going to look that great + they got usb 2.0 so that means we need new firewire.

[jperales]

My G4 400 has a 10 GB hard disk. Few months later de same model had a 20 GB one. Why no 1,13-966-833 in late march, 1.33-1-900 in May, 1,6-1,33-1 in July...and so on?

[gotohamish]

Okay, we'll believe what we're told...

THEN WHAT is happening? The Japanese love their tech, and we've just been told there's no new hardware... so will it be the 10GB iPod at the same price, with a cut to the 5GB perhaps, a new device, a (dare-I-say-it) PDA-type thing.

No new "CPUs" means one thing, but hands up who thinks Apple would let their only eastern Expo go off without something of a bang. I'm not in the mood for 90mins of Photoshop 7 bakeoffs.

H

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by whfsdude


Well in a couple months the Dual 1 Ghz won't be a good machine, if you a pc user looking at specs it's not going to look that great + they got usb 2.0 so that means we need new firewire.

I suppose if we are playing the number game against PC users we will never get anyone to convert. Apple tries real hard to get out of this never ending marketing stream roller against Intel and AMD. People will buy Mac's for its style, ease of use, compatibility and stable software. If yon want to convert people who are looking for the new P4 2.4 GHz 800 Mhz RDRAM machine, just forget about it.

As for the firewire issue you mentioned, Firewire 1 is better than USB 2 in may ways. No drivers neccesary for components, compatible with most, if not all, digital cameras, and even for the fastest peripherals, the 80Mbit difference is another one of the marketing schemes USB is using to pull your leg.

[evanmarx]

Originally posted by keithcobbett
I believe this story, but I feel real bad and confused. Why would they release this info if they never talk about hardware releases before an expo????

They posted this note maybe because the incoming orders for new quicksilvers are not as good as expected and maybe they heard from the apple stores that many customers are holding back their purchases because of possible G5's ... so (apple) knowing what's ahead is right in posting this info, so people will buy the new quicksilvers NOW which are bloody great machines ... and btw, all those self called mac heroes still running on g3 233/333/400's... dammit .. go and get some new machines .. it's worth every penny and is good for your health and APPLE's ...

[Macmaniac]

I bet its just to trough us off and then Apple will catch us off guard with a cool new device.

______________________
Not all who wander are lost.

[blackdog]

While I believe it was wise of Apple to throw some cold water on the rampant speculation of the last few months (especially with regard to the G5), it occurs to me to that there are still questions that haven't been answered in this announcement.

What's a "new CPU"? Apple will introduce no "new CPU's" in the coming months. Does that mean no speed bumps as well? Or are they referring to CPU class (ie., no new series chips ala G5). Does coming months include MWNY? Or is 5 months beyond the window?

I saw nothing in the article that necessarily excluded G4 Apollo revisions, new digital hub devices, reworked motherboards, etc. Or even faster Apollo's moving into the TiBook, for that matter. No, the only definitive statement that seems to have been made is "no significant hardware modifications in Tokyo, and no G5 before MWNY". And until I hear any truly reliable information, I don't expect the G5 before MWSF 2003, at the earliest. But that doesn't mean there won't be other new Apple products or announcements through the rest of the year, at least based on this interview.

[kidtronix]

this must be a joke! the fact that the pb got a revision with the dual slot is just retarded, they must upgrade it! i don't wanna buy the current versions :mad: :mad: :mad:

[blackdog]

I've only ever seen G5 specs scaling to 1.4 or 1.6 GHz, yet people seem to keep saying it will take us over the 2 GHz mark and into the lead of clock speeds. Fuggedaboutit. If it runs at 1.4 Ghz, but it's a faster machine, I'm all for it. The proof will be in the total package performance, and clock speeds (as has been said over and over and over ad nauseum) are irrelevant. So maybe we can stop asking for Ghz this and Ghz that. I dunno, maybe we need a new measurement of performance to beg for, but enough with the Ghz.

[Hemingray]

If Apple doesn't get a mobo revision in soon, this is bad news. They've been on a 133 bus for way too long.

[eyelikeart]

I don't believe the article...

how can Apple expect to stay in the running game at all if they don't have something newer coming? I know it says within the next few months...

but not till 2003 for a G5.....that sounds insane! :eek:

[blakespot]

Originally posted by eyelikeart
I don't believe the article...

how can Apple expect to stay in the running game at all if they don't have something newer coming? I know it says within the next few months...

but not till 2003 for a G5.....that sounds insane! :eek:


Did you miss the release of the new new pro towers a few weeks ago?? And the new iMac a month or so before that?? Do you honestly expect new hardware from Apple every other month?

What kind of sense does that make?



blakespot

[spikey]

I wouldnt take much notice of this information, myself.

If moto can get enough yields of faster G4s then they will produce them. Especially seeing as these new G4s seem a hell of alot better than the older ones.And seeing as these new chips seem a much more refined G4, i am expecting them to scale clock speed better.

But that is possibly not what is holding apple back. If moto are going to produce chips above 1Ghz then apple needs DDR mobos, if there arent DDR mobos then performance is significantly hampered on a 1Ghz+ chip. So it could be that the lack of DDR mobos will be what prevent apple from releasing a new G4.
The new powermacs are cheaper than they were before, so possibly a new mobo is possible. Apple knows that the Powermac line needs DDR, they wont piss about waiting for the right moment while the PC opposition get further ahead.


As for the powerbooks, well they dont need DDR. So apollo based mobile chips arent stifled by that. Again powerbooks are falling behind the competition, seeing as this is a market where apple kicks ass, i dont think they will wait around until they fall behind.


From now till the G5 is introduced, apple wont do as much strategical releasing of products as they have been doing over the past few years. They are behind the PC competition. They need to be near the competition to get the apple name out there before the G5 is released, this will give the G5 a chance.
Apple has shown this by releasing the imac a little prematurely, sure its good value, but its a little expensive for a consumer machine.

Right now Apple doesnt care, they just want to catch up.

[Unregistered]

The Dual 1Ghz are excellent Machines, but their standard Ram still isn't DDR, Their Bus Speed is still 133, and the G4 won't be new forever.

But I'm not concerned. MWNY is more than a few months from now, imho. They need to sell the machines they have now, and by July, I bet the first G5 will come out. It just makes sense. People expected flat imac in NY, they came 6 months later. People Expected (or hoped for G5's) in SF, They will come 6 months later. I also think it's just bad marketting to have a consumer machine with a G4 when the PRO end is only running G4. Why buy a PowerMac G4 933, if you could just by an iMac G4 800? They'll upgrade the highend. I'm not concerned in the slightest.

[OSeXy!]

With all the spin these days I'm not sure who's being manipulated by whom.

MWSF: "Way beyond the rumor sites"... Oh, so Apple DOES recognise the rumor sites, and is willing to (oops!) address them directly.

Now Apple want's to get the rumor mongers off its back because it knows it can never live up to ... our ... expectations. Rumor: G5 in Tokyo or NY. Apple: Uh, oh -- we'll never make that! Better say "no new CPUs" (don't call it by name, there'll be trouble!).

Have we manipulated Apple, or is Apple manipulating us? Or both?

[spikey]

Originally posted by Unregistered
The Dual 1Ghz are excellent Machines, but their standard Ram still isn't DDR, Their Bus Speed is still 133, and the G4 won't be new forever.

But I'm not concerned. MWNY is more than a few months from now, imho. They need to sell the machines they have now, and by July, I bet the first G5 will come out. It just makes sense. People expected flat imac in NY, they came 6 months later. People Expected (or hoped for G5's) in SF, They will come 6 months later. I also think it's just bad marketting to have a consumer machine with a G4 when the PRO end is only running G4. Why buy a PowerMac G4 933, if you could just by an iMac G4 800? They'll upgrade the highend. I'm not concerned in the slightest.

G4 powermacs are significantly faster, they have a faster bus, they have faster cpu speeds and they come in dual cpu guise. also they are expandable.

Thr imac would have been released at MWNY if it was cheap enough to produce, but it wasnt.
The G5 hasnt been released yet becasue it jst plain and simply isnt ready yet.
these are 2 different reasons so you cant use the same rule to predict when they will come out.

[spikey]

Originally posted by OSeXy!
With all the spin these days I'm not sure who's being manipulated by whom.

MWSF: "Way beyond the rumor sites"... Oh, so Apple DOES recognise the rumor sites, and is willing to (oops!) address them directly.

Now Apple want's to get the rumor mongers off its back because it knows it can never live up to ... our ... expectations. Rumor: G5 in Tokyo or NY. Apple: Uh, oh -- we'll never make that! Better say "no new CPUs" (don't call it by name, there'll be trouble!).

Have we manipulated Apple, or is Apple manipulating us? Or both?

Looking back at MWSF and the hype apple created. I wonder whether apple created the hype just to get us dissapointed, and so to teach us a lesson about not hyping.

[marcused]

Ok. No New Hardware. But...
Is it possible Apple decide to improve performance of Tibook with a 700mhz processor and a new - and better - graphic device like the Nvidia 32mb Ge force 2 Go ?
I know it is difficult, but if they want to be the better choice for a graphic designer, they cannot continue to sell Ati inside TiBook!
...i'm thinking... maybe in Tokio?

[saffron!!]

I'm waiting for the G5 because I will be using my system for Final Cut Pro 3 and Combustion. I know that faster ram and processing will mean more real time effects without a hardware add in card. When I ordered my SGI workstation in Jan. of 2000 it took until May 2000 to get it delivered. 3 months later SGI came out with faster processors. I don't want to make the same mistake again. The television station I work for may not be able to wait for the G5 since they need an editing solution sooner. This will be my first Mac and would like to start learning the new software but I feel the wait will be very much worth it. It depends on how quickly you need to upgrade.

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by evanmarx


and btw, all those self called mac heroes still running on g3 233/333/400's... dammit .. go and get some new machines .. it's worth every penny and is good for your health and APPLE's ...

Sorry, I need at least a new motherboard before I buy my next system. Apple is seriously out of touch if they think the current G4's were worthy of the pre-Expo hype they were flinging on the apple.com site.

'No new hardware' just means I wait until there is - lower than expected sales or not Apple's just gonna have to live with that. I'd be more likely to pick up a new iMac for the living room rather than the current 'slightly tweaked' towers - at least I'd be getting something new.

[OSeXy!]

Originally posted by spikey


Looking back at MWSF and the hype apple created. I wonder whether apple created the hype just to get us dissapointed, and so to teach us a lesson about not hyping.

Possibly. I'm not sure Apple's spin doctors are actually trying to teach us a lesson (which makes it look bad, too), more that they are being VERY careful now in their choice of words.

It looks like more low-key press releases as and when new things are available, and fewer mega-announcements... Until the new CPU baby is ready. They want us to keep buying things, but also to introduce changes and play catch-up with Intel.

So it's like in politics: Apple says, "Read my lips. No new hardware!". But then introduces new hardware in an under the table way to keep options wide open.

[eyelikeart]

Originally posted by blakespot
Did you miss the release of the new new pro towers a few weeks ago?? And the new iMac a month or so before that?? Do you honestly expect new hardware from Apple every other month?

What kind of sense does that make?

blakespot

I'm quite well aware of the new pro-towers release a few weeks ago, thank u....

I was referring to plans for the next few months. I don't like to be like the many who are looking for the next revision a week after we receive something new, but the fact does remain that they are going to fall behind still. I don't give into the Mhz-Myth at all, but if Apple doesn't get something else to catch people's interest they are going to be in trouble....

[Unregistered]

It seems realistic that Apple can't update stuff constantly because to redesign the infrastructure of CPU's cost huge amounts of money and time. However, has anyone heard anything about the iPod? To change the iPod, you would only need to upgrade the hard drive and possibly the amount of RAM it has (since the current iPod's RAM is the main reason why songs over 20 mins wont play correctly). This upgrade will not affect the production time of the new iPods and won't cost much in terms of redesigning the iPod.

Does anybody know if the iPod is in the category of hardware that won't be changed at MacWorld Tokyo?

Thanks.

[Unregistered]

I can't believe that you guys just can't get over a bunch of silly numbers. "Ok, so Mhz finally isn't the end all of performance. Lets harp on DDR RAM, then." Gimme a break.

No, apple's machines are not going to replace the high end server market yet, replace 3D renderfarms, or have higher FPS in Q3A than a P4 based box. But look at the markets apple's IS in. For publishing, professional audio, creative, movie editing, content creation, media production, etc, Apple still has compelling, powerful tools that are faster or competative in PERFORMANCE and PRICE to their PC counterparts. Yes, PC's are faster and cheaper for a variety of applications, and I know we all want our macs to dominate EVERY aspect of modern computing, but Apple is by no means lagging behind in the technologies they try to excel in. We all saw in the mid 90's that Apple trying to take on the world and do everything for everyone was only going to drive them out of business. So instead of having a jackass of all trades (wintel), they've chosen to have a somewhat specialized tool that still offers more than acceptable performance at every other task out there, and still bundles it in a stylish, warm fuzzy user experience that we all know and love.

Would macs be faster if every PMac had DDR333, 100Mhz 64bit PCI, AGP8x, ultra SCSI raid, and some mystery technologies like gigawire and hypertransport (quantispeed architechture LOL)? Yes. Does Apple need a faster tower than the current PMac line to stay competative against similarly priced Wintel offerings? Not by a long shot.

And the new iMac too expensive for consumers? Is that what 150,000 pre orders in 3 weeks tells you? Have you gone to an Apple Store recently and tried to buy one? If we recall our Econ 101, (supply, demand, equilibrium price, etc... ) we see that Apple could be charging a whole lot more for these puppies. And even *trying* to configure a comparable PC is going to end up costing around $2800, after figuring in all the lousy PC software you need to have to edit and manipulate media, burn DVD's etc, and it'll still take HOURS longer to edit, compress and stamp out yer DVD's.

[kidtronix]

it sounds pretty likely that apple will show a new edition of mac os x (whatever number), maybe show photoshop 7 on dual 1ghz's and say how much it screams in speed. but, can they really have a macworld in toyko without doing ANY hardware updates? have they ever done this in the past? my memory fails me.

i don't really know what to think :confused:

[usa4jer]

i don't suppose i need to remind anyone that the G3 is still alive and kicking. of course the G4 has a long life ahead of it. it will live on in the imac, the TiBook, and, eventually, the iBook. the G4 was introduced several years ago, but the G3 is still around. similarly, the G5 may still very well be introduced at MWNY (and it damn well better be, as far as i'm concerned), but the G4 will stick around for a while in the non-Pro lines of apple computers. at that point, we'll all bid a final farewell to the G3. i'll be tossing mine out the window and videotaping.

[Unregistered]

The mac has no good rackmount options. if Apple will not or cannot design a case that provides proper rackmount attributes in the next few months, than the OSX will never be a contender for servers and cluster systems. That is an awful lot of system sales for Apple to walk away from and deny sales of cpus to Moto.
It would make sense to Apple to offer the cpu boards in a cardboard box as a oem item to rackmount case manufactureres to design nice rackmount cases around. This would allow decent configurations containing multiple disk drives for RAID arrays, N+1 redundant power supplies and the other fine points of good rackmount systems. If Apple cannot afford to develop a rackmount server case then let the specialists do it and adopt the highly evolved PC centric rackmount cases to accept Apple motherboards with cpus.

[blakespot]

But that is possibly not what is holding apple back. If moto are going to produce chips above 1Ghz then apple needs DDR mobos, if there arent DDR mobos then performance is significantly hampered on a 1Ghz+ chip. So it could be that the lack of DDR mobos will be what prevent apple from releasing a new G4.


I think what will prevent Apple from releasing a new G4 at Tokyo in a few weeks is the fact that a couple of weeks ago they released three new G4 towers.



blakespot

[Nipsy]

Originally posted by Unregistered
The mac has no good rackmount options.
It would make sense to Apple to offer the cpu boards in a cardboard box as a oem item to rackmount case manufactureres to design nice rackmount cases around.

Design is too much an element of Apple's ethos to allow for this sort of sponsored cobranding.

There are six or seven different manufacturers who are offering rack mount Macs, with a 1U iMac springing immdiately to mind.

I hope that an Apple rackmount server is in the future, and if it is, expect to see some damn intelligent uses of expensive rack space.

[Unregistered]

If one goes to www.motorola.com and checks out the specs for the current 8500 series of cpus one can see the trend for the future of the PPC processor and the probable architechture of the 'G5" The specs for this chip only need to have the Altivec portions of the G4 added to be absolutely killer in performance


MPC8540 basic specs:

Features:

e500 "Book E" Processor 600MHz - 1GHz
256KByte On-chip L2
128Gb/s On-chip Fabric
333MHz DDR Memory Controller
Advanced I/O Ports
RapidIO
64b PCI-X
dual 10/100/Gbit Ethernet
General Purpose parallel I/O port
4-Channel DMA
Interrupt Controller (8 discreet or 16 serial)
DUART Serial Interface
Modular Design

[mcrain]

I'm a pc user, so forgive me for not understanding. I have been looking everywhere to find info regarding macs. I'm on the verge of finally taking the mac plunge (instead of paying insane amounts of money for a new pc, operating system, etc. that's going to be obsolete in two months). The one thing that's held me back is the "MHz myth." I've asked everywhere for someone to show me some benchmark testing or some sort of side by side testing of a pc vs. a mac. Every mac person I've heard from says that the Mhz difference means nothing and the macs are faster for several reasons.

Now, someone here says:

"I can't believe that you guys just can't get over a bunch of silly numbers. "Ok, so Mhz finally isn't the end all of performance. Lets harp on DDR RAM, then." Gimme a break.

No, apple's machines are not going to replace the high end server market yet, replace 3D renderfarms, or have higher FPS in Q3A than a P4 based box. But look at the markets apple's IS in. For publishing, professional audio, creative, movie editing, content creation, media production, etc, Apple still has compelling, powerful tools that are faster or competative in PERFORMANCE and PRICE to their PC counterparts. Yes, PC's are faster and cheaper for a variety of applications, and I know we all want our macs to dominate EVERY aspect of modern computing, but Apple is by no means lagging behind in the technologies they try to excel in. We all saw in the mid 90's that Apple trying to take on the world and do everything for everyone was only going to drive them out of business. So instead of having a jackass of all trades (wintel), they've chosen to have a somewhat specialized tool that still offers more than acceptable performance at every other task out there, and still bundles it in a stylish, warm fuzzy user experience that we all know and love."


So, mac people... are pcs faster? From reading this thread is sure sounds like macs have a long long way to go, just to catch up. Am I wrong?

Also, the pc user in me has to point out that new pcs and upgrades come out very often because there are lots of companies that make pcs. Now, apple is the only company making macs, thus no pressure to do anything. I mean, it's not like a rival company is going to put out a new G5 Powermac type computer before Apple. If so, I'm sure Apple would try a little harder to push releases.

So, here I am. A current PC user considering taking the mac plunge because I finally begin to buy into the mac concept of 128 bit vs. 32 bit, etc... , and mac enthusiasts seem to think macs are behind pcs.

So, what's the deal. Are macs behind pcs? Has anyone seen any head to head comparisons? I'm not going to buy until that one question can be answered. For now, because the pcs are in the lead, I guess I'll just keep waiting and hoping a pc company puts out a laptop that's as nice looking as the macs.

[graydecember]

Isn't this argumentation about the possible release schedule for hardware somewhat unnecessary? I don't have time to research this, but just thinking back (idon't know how good my memory is) it seems Apple has been quite consistent with when they release new models~ Seybold (in Sept or so?) gets new towers, MWSF gets imacs, Tokyo gets cosumer portables, MWNy gets PBs, etc...

I know I'm definitely not 100% correct on this. But maybe someone should look back a few years and plot a simple chart (mabe I'll get around to doing this)- for example, the japanese are attracted to portables somewhat I think, so rolling out towers in Tokyo wouldn't be ministering to the right user group (uh, well, you know what I mean!). So, I think the next new machine will be a tower at seybold in the fall (that is when it is, right?); all else until trhen will be new *configurations* or performance enhancements...

also, someone mentioned earlier the g5 only getting to about 1.6ghz. Moto's site (if I remember correctly) says the g4 could get that high, and that the g5 would get to be about 2.6ghz. The register reported some time ago that very small yields of 2.6ghz g5's were already being trned out.

*no way* will we have to wait until '03. Also, there's no quetion that PB's will soon get >1ghz apollos, but we may have to wait until the next Q02. Won't buy a thing until then!

[Unregistered]

They don't want to kill sales for the latest (read "weeks ago now"!) machines they DO have.

[spuncan]

K one this guy is right about no new hardware till MWNY 02". But in that time Apple release a QT update iMovie update and possibly a Pro Mixer or the like (big brother of iTunes). This guy said the ancient news of the G4's not dead. Well mainly he means G4 iMac. At MWNY O2' they're will be the G5 at 1.2-1.4-1.6 or 1.0-1.2-1.4 :) Available in sept. . Also 10.2 :) . Possibly an iMac update ?800-933-1.0? If not then then during MWParis. The powerbook /iBook with go 8 months without an update at hich the powerbook will be 667-733-867 / iBook 600-700-800. The iPod will update to the 10/20 gig hd's some time between MWTokyo and late October. whats ur thoughts on this

[Mausabiest]

Why are you complaining all the time, I think Apple has done a great job so far this year and the year has just begun. I read the new german Macup magazin and they have test in there with the new 1GHz G4 Dual, this thing is just awsome in speed, sure the Nvida Mx card ist not the best but why are the rumors sites buying this rumor now. Let´s wait and see, I´m pretty sure Apple will come up with something more this year, just don´t rely on those rumors.

By the way, the new i-Mac is great, I think it will be a great hit, even here in Europe.

Greetings
Andy

[Unregistered]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mcrain
[B]I'm a pc user, so forgive me for not understanding. I have been looking everywhere to find info regarding macs. I'm on the verge of finally taking the mac plunge (instead of paying insane amounts of money for a new pc, operating system, etc. that's going to be obsolete in two months). The one thing that's held me back is the "MHz myth." I've asked everywhere for someone to show me some benchmark testing or some sort of side by side testing of a pc vs. a mac.
So, mac people... are pcs faster? From reading this thread is sure sounds like macs have a long long way to go, just to catch up. Am I wrong?


From the benchmark test results I've seen (magazines, the web), some software runs faster on a Mac, some software runs faster on a PC. So if speed is your only issue, you should see if you can find benchmark results for that specific software that you're going to use.

If its any help, someone has just posted some tests for After Effects...

http://www.postforum.com/forums/read.php?f=6&i=31960&t=31911


good luck!

[bobsmith]

"The G4 has a long life ahead of it," said Joswiak. "There are a number of tweaks and revs that will happen to that processor over a long period of time."
--------------------------------

Remember that the iMac now uses the G4, and probably will for a long time to come. The G5 could appear in "pro" models this summer, and the statement above would still be perfectly true.

[grrr223]

Where to begin... (you can read that as "This may be a very long post")

How about I begin by trying to respond to Mcrain. First off, Welcome to the party. I can see how you get the impression that even the mac enthusiasts think apple is playing catch up, I almost got that impression too reading this thread, but I honestly believe that is not the case. And here's why...

1) I apologize for the overused analogy, but I do think it works. Why do people buy BMWs? It's not because they go 150 mph, my POS Ford Contour goes 150 mph (don't ask :)) but it can't handle turns...or attract beautiful women ;)... nearly as well. I noticed you said you were waiting for a PC laptop maker to make one that LOOKS as good as the Apple ones. That's just it, this is not about just looks. Take for example the bottom of the line of Apple's incredible laptop offerings, the iBook with it's 12 inch screen. My PC using friends on campus must carry around 2 fragile PC cards in order to connect to our school's network. 1 for the wired ethernet and 1 (which sticks out about an inch) to use the wireless networking. That little ibook, which you can get (the 500 mhz version) for not much more than $1k has the ethernet port built into it and the airport card (which is compatible) fits neatly under the keyboard, so they are both always there and always safe. It's little things like this that make Apple products so amazing. I honestly can't even think of too many uses for a PC slot on the Tibooks when you already have 2 usb and 2 firewire ports.

2) Today's personal computers are very fast. Why is everyone here concerned about Apple dissappearing if it doesn't release a 2GHz G5 Tomorrow? And this is completely separate from the Mhz myth, that's irrelevant. For I'd say 50% or so, or even if it's as low as 25% or even 10% of people who just want a home pc so they can pay their bills online and let little johnny use the internet for school and type his papers, just about any computer that exists today is fast enough, and the new iMac is plenty fast to do just aobut anything. I know a lot of you, use, and even require every last clock cycle to do your daily work, but why don't you give the brand @#$@# new dual 1Ghz a chance and let Apple concentrate on other things. I use apple products because of a lot more aspects than speed. Let Apple spend the next 3 months even concentrating on convince my grandparents that even they can burn DVDs of their home videos and that my mom can organize her 1000s of photos with a new iMac OUT OF THE BOX. These are the people who can benefit greatly from Apple's ability to integrate seamlessly it's hardware and software. And there are enough of them that Apple's precious market share could increase noticably (at this point, even a 1% increase is reason to celebrate) if Apple just puts in the effort to show them the light :).

3) Greydecember makes an excellent point. apple has consistently released new systems every 6 months or so, why on earth would they start doing it every 6 weeks now? The stellar economy? R&D has all of a sudden become free? If you read the article that sparked this thread, it says the every one of Apple's lines has been updated in the past 56 days. That's less than 2 months, the new G4s have been out for only a few weeks. Apple is doing an excellent job doing their job which is being the best at what they're good at, not being everything to everyone. And Apple is good at producing products that get the job done. For most people, the speed in any PC being sold today is pretty much irrelevant. It will more than be able to handle anythign they'll throw at it. I konw people have been saying this for years, but I think it's true now.


....and I'm spent.

[sam case]

Originally posted by kidtronix
this must be a joke! the fact that the pb got a revision with the dual slot is just retarded, they must upgrade it! i don't wanna buy the current versions :mad: :mad: :mad:

:mad: :mad: I agree completely.... i want more out of the powerbook if im going to pay $3,500 plus and am hopeful that
something will happen by the end of march or summer at the
latest... or i may have to venture into a sonystlye.com site...
lets hope for some good news soon from our friends at apple
with regards to their "top of the line" PB.....

[moby1]

- seem to be dragging behind the rest of the line. We need to see a speed bump here before July. As soon as it comes, I'm buying the top model.

I guess I'll be spending a lot of time on my new iMac (whenever it gets here).

[Rocketman]

Apple has a policy of not discussing in-pipeline products precisely to prevent anyone from "waiting" for anything. Buy now is the mantra of any manufacturer.

It's your loss when another product comes out right after you bought the last one a short time before the new one came out. But wait. It's not a loss at all. Its a huge gain now vs a huger gain later. So I guess it's worth it to BUY NOW, after all.

:D

Rocketman

:D

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by saffron!!
I'm waiting for the G5 because I will be using my system for Final Cut Pro 3 and Combustion. I know that faster ram and processing will mean more real time effects without a hardware add in card. When I ordered my SGI workstation in Jan. of 2000 it took until May 2000 to get it delivered. 3 months later SGI came out with faster processors. I don't want to make the same mistake again. The television station I work for may not be able to wait for the G5 since they need an editing solution sooner. This will be my first Mac and would like to start learning the new software but I feel the wait will be very much worth it. It depends on how quickly you need to upgrade.

If I were in your pickle I would buy the 800mhz G4 now, learn the software issues and produce real stuff on it, then when G5's come out use the G4 as a raid and part of a render farm.

Rocketman

[Plutonius]

I'm very happy that Apple made the announcement. I was waiting on the G5's and now I can get a dual 1 GHz G4 without worrying that I might have made a mistake in buying too early.

[Unregistered]

Apple wants to sell current inventory and they need folks to stop waiting from rumors they have heard regarding the release of G5 processors...from this point the G4 speeds will certainly increase later in the year...the Dual Gig G4 will go up to 1.2/1.4 perhaps even 1.6 if the yields are reliable...

The Ti will certainly get a G4 boost later in the year as well...just when who knows...

What Apple is trying to say is that the Current G4 archintechture will remain the focus for 2002 (squeezing ever once of power they can before moving on). Don't expect to see speed revisions every 2 months...6 month much more likely...

[Unregistered]

I think the dual machine rocks. Furthermore, Apples only mistake up to this point is truly educating joe public that Ghz is NOT the only factor anymore. But I see so many people buying their first PeeCee and saying wow I got 1.7 gHz for $25! But when I point out that they now need good video card, good sound card, etc... they are less impressed with their deal. I'd carry on, but we all know this point...

Apple is smart to quench rumore of ANY upgrades coming in less than 6 months. as a large percentage of apple buyers are upgraders, face it we are not expanding new buyers...(although I feel iMac will help alot). So any apple user looking to upgrade a machine that is less than 3 years old, can wait two more months or three or four. I have a b/w G3 with a G4 400 zif card, and I've never waited this long to upgrade, but frankly everything I have runs great (of course the radeon helps). But I drool at new mac adds (exaggerated). Still until Photoshop X comes out and maybe even a little more mature OS X, I can't justify buying a new box, although those G4 at sub 3k are VERY tempting. If Apple was to tell me that in 2 months a 200mHz bus was gomeing or dual 1.6 gigs or whatever upgrade... I'd wait. By telling me nothing for a year... I'm now compelled to buy... once Photoshop is upgraded.

Buying a computer is like a job salary. If you make $10/hr and then get a promotion to $110/hour, at the end of the month you will still wonder where it all went and why you have bills. Regardless of your salary, you will manage to get by. Same with the computers, We will always want a faster better model, and if you wait you will get it. But there comes a point where you have to buy and at that time you get the best you can. I find it hard to believe that a apple faithful would look at the top of the line and resort to comparing it to a pentium 4 on a mHGz basis. Real mac users know that this is not even realistic. I agree USB 2.0, DDR ram, 200 mHz busses would be great. But the fact is, our high end beats their high end even without this stuff. Hands down to get all this gizmos, you have to use windows. I'd take my old 604e back before I'd do that! Furthermore these upgrades will add cost... and then we get all the toys we want and 1.21 gigawatts of computing power and we will complain about the cost... again not satisified. When an application comes along that you NEED (for me photoshop X (or v7)) and your current computer doesn't support it. Upgrade. Get the best you can afford and accept the fact that in 2 to 6 months their will be something better, but THEN realize you were able to work, play and be productive for 2 months longer then if you waited.

Anyways, now that I figured out my password, I thought I'd share my 2Cents!

Iriejedi
:rolleyes:

[Unregistered]

so when is the next macworld? im hoping for a TiPod or 10GB or just a price reduction before I buy one.. $399 is alot but im willing to pay it, but will shoot myself if in a month it goes down to $299 or gets double the space or an even better enclosure similar to the titanium.. heh, i juss think titanium would be a good idea for a portable device that is obviously going to get banged around a bit. anyway, what would be the soonest a revision would come? If its not going to be till july i am just going to buy...

[-=AsukA=-]

I SENSERLY hope apple will NEVER EVER release a pro tower with the G4 in it again (after the new Dual 1GHz G4). now that everyone know the G5 is REAL and and DOES exist, no one will be happy to see yet another G4 tower upgrade! the dual G4 1GHz IS SIMPLY THE FASTEST computer EVER built by apple computer! and will -NON SEXUALY- violate ANY other PC OR MAC out there! when the new towers first came out peope all over the net started talking about how this COULD be the LAST G4 tower EVER, "COULD" only because apple wouldnt confirm it, as it could harm there sales and uncle steve dosent want to blow the surprise just yet! EVERY 6 months a computer (from apple) is updated, the iMac and G4 towers where done not that long ago, the iBook iPod and Tibook have yet to be touched on recently (however the ipod is not a computer and probably wont get upgraded, maby a lower price....) when people say new hardwear they dont nessasarly mean ALL the computer just the ones that havent been touched in the last 6 months.

and the fact is the iBook and Tibook are considered old modles in the computer world, and WILL be updated in the next Macworld. the iMac and G4 towers will NOT be touched untill Macworld NY. and for all you who think thta apple will release the G5 in Macworld SF, WHAT ARE YOU ON? the now new G4 towers will be a year old by then! you honestly think apple would put a new G4 chip its towers? even after the Dual 1GHz G4? THEN a G5? That would kill apples Pro users! and there sales! even apple was shocked at how low the orders are for there new G4 towers! the iMac is still the king of the ring with orders from here to pluto! the G4 towers however powerfull THEY ARE, they still are not what the rest of the world will react to the most, a G5 released soon, would make everyone say ohhh ahhhh i want that!
its the same with the PEE CEE market when the Pentium 3 was the best of the best evey one had one, then the next day the pentium 4 came out and every one though it would be THAT much better and just had to have one to be the cool kid on the block! exactly the same as Graphics cards, the Gforce 3 was HUGE when it came out! every one had to hav one, and those that did get one are now left in the dust, the gForce 4 has come out now and is suposed to be better, so ppl want that now! all you people trying to stay at the top of the "technology race" are RETARDED! unless you can aford to pay 2000$+ EVERY 3 to 6 months just to say you have the best of the best, your waisting your time! and money! i know there are still people out there EVEN on this board who still have and use a PRE G3 computer and are happy with it becaue it does what they need it to do! and when they do upgrade, THEY will have the best of the best because they waited, and benifit more from a speed increase of a 603 to a Dual 1.8GHz G5!!!! not from 733MHz to 867 or even 933! you people will BAIRLY notice your increas in speed! youl only be able to TALK about your upgrad and save 2-2.5 seconds of your time in photoshop!

and just what am i using, what i can mock all you people who have to have the best of the best? a iMac 500MHZ G3 DV SE, thi sbad boy was top of the line when i got it, and now look at me! left in the dust! but do i care? NO! Y? because i have better things to do with my time than try to have the best of the best. But if your hobby is computing and you enjoy haveing the best of the best, thats cool to! you do your thing ill do mine!

-peace!

[Unregistered]

"...now that everyone know the G5 is REAL and and DOES exist, no one will be happy to see yet another G4 tower upgrade!"

Care to tell us when Motorola announced and began shipping thise new G5s?

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by marcused
Is it possible Apple decide to improve performance of Tibook ...
...i'm thinking... maybe in Tokio?

That's what I was thinking (Tibook). Tokyo makes sense, in a region that loves their laptops, and portable devises. This seemed to be the case in the past as well for previous Apple announcements in Tokyo.

- Tim

[slinky]

what about monitors. 24 inch LCD screens? or improved technology on the 22 inch lcd's?

Slinky

[spikey]

I sort of agree Asuka but not for the same reasons.

I dont want a motorola G4 in another tower, just because it is still scaling incredibly slowly. Considering how far IBM has got with the G3, moto is being pathetic. Moto's G4 has created a dark age for apple.

[-=AsukA=-]

Originally posted by Unregistered
"...now that everyone know the G5 is REAL and and DOES exist, no one will be happy to see yet another G4 tower upgrade!"

Care to tell us when Motorola announced and began shipping thise new G5s?

When did i way the G5 was shiping? OH YEA I DID'NT! some of you people need to stop making up your own crap from other peoples posts! I staited that Motorola announced the PowerPC road map awhile back! and that many tech sites have been talking about the G5, EVEN motorola!

[StealthRider]

Originally posted by udannlin


And you are suggesting that the Dual 1 Ghz is not a good machine? I don't get some of you.....

hehehehehehehe.....DO YOU KNOW WHAT I WOULD DO FOR A DUAL 1000?!?!?!?!

[StealthRider]

Originally posted by whfsdude


What about the TiBook?

I agree, the TiBook needs an upgrade. Apple can't have a "professional" class laptop slower than their "comsumer" class desktop, can they?

[StealthRider]

WHat is all this hype about DDR? As I recall, DDR is expensive, and as memory prices are going back up, DDR is not a good idea.
Aren't you all always bellyaching about how much new Mac's cost?

[Rower_CPU]

Last time I checked DDR was about the same price as PC-100 or PC-133.
It would benefit the Mac greatly to have DDR and it wouldn't drive up the price.

I would love to see price drops on the LCD displays. LCD monitors are getting cheaper and better, and I hope Apple can pass those improvements on to us. Maybe they could drop the 15" and go with 17", 19" and 22"...

[krossfyter]

Originally posted by StealthRider


I agree, the TiBook needs an upgrade. Apple can't have a "professional" class laptop slower than their "comsumer" class desktop, can they?


not going to happen. good desire though.

[blindman858]

I think that by holding on to the release date of the g5 will be better for apple because most people have recently bought either the dp or new imac. I dont think we are gonna spend another 1000 bucks or so for another g5 machine. I am not that rich hehe. If they did release the g5 the sales would not be very good.

[dcharris]

As this has turned into a bit of a processor analysis forum - a question for any of you processor heads out there: It seems to me that the real speed potential of both the G3 and G4 is realized by exploiting L1, L2, and L3 cache. Why is Apple holding out on us here? - or is this the next big thing - full utilization of the on chip cache? (Part of this question stems from a benchmark I saw giving the 400 mhz Pismo - higher cache G3 - the edge in some instances over the then new Ti 400 - lower cache G4.) Thanks for any input.

[Curiousstrngmint]

I've (obviously) got a question...

Do people think that buying an iBook this summer, like say July, after they potentially speed-bump it at MWNY, is worthwhile, seeing as it still runs on the G3? The G3 is several years old and I'm just concerned about its future life and capabilities.

[dualburn001]

well it all depends on what you need it for. If all you want is to do word processing and surf the web the iBOOK is fine for you. But if you're going to be video-editing or phot-editing then go for the low-end powerbook. For $2,300 you'll get:
550MHz PowerPC G4 @ 100MHz
256K L2 cache @ 550MHz
256MB SDRAM memory
20GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
ATI Mobility Radeon w/
16MB DDR video memory
Gigabit Ethernet
56K internal modem
1 FireWire & 2 USB Ports
Airport Ready
But then on the other hand if you're broke just hold until you have the $$$$ for the power book.



Dualburn001