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Haoshiro
Jun 8, 2006, 03:23 PM
Kutaragi Announces Plans To Confuse PS3 Gamers Even More (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/ken-kutaragi/kutaragi-announces-plans-to-confuse-ps3-gamers-even-more-179042.php)

- games on PS3 are running on the PS3 with "basic configuration" - software will have different relationship with hardware (including non-gaming applications) in the future - software module will be made inside the PS3 (such as OS?) so PS3 will have no problem adopting new hardware parts (this doesn't mean you can upgrade but just different versions of PS3) - thus two models of PS3 are actually two different configurations, there might be other configurations in future, such as: enhanced version of CELL, more memory etc. The higher-end model of PS3 might be released in future.

Sony Ireland Boss Says PS3 Might Lose (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/top/sony-ireland-boss-says-ps3-might-lose-178982.php)

"We have a marketing challenge from now until launch. This is not a done deal. It will require a lot of effort from us," O'Hanrahan said. "We would never say we cannot fail,"

Harrison denies Wii influenced PS3 controller, says PCs unnecessary (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6152133.html)

"The PlayStation 3 is a computer. We do not need the PC."

Dagless
Jun 8, 2006, 03:58 PM
I'm sorry, but "The PlayStation 3 is a computer. We do not need the PC." is the single most stupid thing I have ever heard anyone say. I mean... There's hype and advertising and there is that.
I don't need a PowerBook. I have an empty can of Fanta with DVI output.

The Irish guy is funny. I'd like Sony Wales to say something next :D
... Ireland has a Sony boss?! Isn't there only 1 or 2 million people in Ireland or something mini like that?

The upgradability is a good thing, not for people who go out and buy a faster Cell chip but that there might be more premium versions that perhaps allow 1080p in every game?
Sony seriously let me down when I heard that not every game will be 1080p, infact has any game been announced as 1080p? I thought it would have been something uber powerful. but instead it's little more than a 360 (still powerful but... y'know. no supercomputer).

Anyone know when Sony will stop chatting out their arses and start making their system vaguely marketable? I'd settle for not completely overshooting their targets and position in the market. Supercomputer my bum. I won't need a PC? riiiiiight.

GFLPraxis
Jun 8, 2006, 04:15 PM
The "We do not need the PC" line has been taken out of context by most IMHO.

As I understand it, he was talking about the fact that most computer functions can be done on the PS3, because it runs Linux. Only problem with Linux? The lack of:
A) Professional apps from companies like Adobe
B) Games.

It's a PS3, so games are there. So for casual users, assuming Sony can package it up in a user friendly way, the PS3 actually will be usable as a PC. While it's unlikely to REPLACE their PC's (he never said that), look at the XBox 360- you have to use a Windows PC for half the functions (streaming and getting the videos on it) while PS3 is rather standalone.

If he actually believes the PS3 will replace the PC, he's an idiot.

MacRumorUser
Jun 8, 2006, 04:23 PM
The Irish guy is funny. I'd like Sony Wales to say something next :D
... Ireland has a Sony boss?! Isn't there only 1 or 2 million people in Ireland or something mini like that?


Outside of Japan, Ireland has the biggest per capita of PS2 ownership.
The irish guy is right though, here the shops are even pissed off, they are not willing to take a huge stock of 520-650 Euro consoles and the general consensus of 'caution' is here, and thats stating it nicely. A 620-650 euro console is too much, simply too too much.

Dont flame saying its 599, as in Ireland we pay a higher premium ALWAYS compared to the rest of Europe even though we are in the Eurozone...

Sony can call it all they want, it will ONLY be ever perceived by the mass majority as a console.

Haoshiro
Jun 8, 2006, 05:13 PM
The upgradability is a good thing

I'm sorry, but for how he described it, no, no it is not a good thing. Imagine having to look at a PS3 game to ensure you meet the "minimum reqiurements"! Rubbish.

And since that would just be completely awful, it probably wouldn't happen... meaning everything would be dev'ed for the low-spec machine.. making it nearly pointless to have other "configurations".

Dagless
Jun 8, 2006, 05:30 PM
I dunno, it's good to me in that if I DO buy a PS3 it will defenitely be late in the machines life. Meaning faster, cooler Cell chips. Plus I could whole heartedly laugh at early adopters with their slower and less compatible PS3's.


... Or would this just keep the PS3 price up? If they are constantly upgrading the chips inside then instead of prices going down - they would remain the same to compensate. Unlike 360 and Wii chips that remain the same through the machines lifespan.

Ok. Bad thing.

Haoshiro
Jun 8, 2006, 06:08 PM
Well to me, it would be like having a console that was just like a PC... needing upgraded all the time... meh.

MacRumorUser
Jun 8, 2006, 06:15 PM
It's ridiculous.

The whole point of a console is that its all in one and doesnt need upgrading and your safe to run your games on for its entire lifespan.

Creating a console with scalable levels because you plan to update it is really annoying to the 100th degree.....

More and more reason to avoid ps3 altogether.

Dagless
Jun 8, 2006, 06:33 PM
More and more reason to avoid ps3 altogether.

But it's 4D. four-deeeeee.
and it's better than any of your macs at any given point.
and it has the bluray and the cell.

Haoshiro
Jun 8, 2006, 06:47 PM
But it's 4D. four-deeeeee.
and it's better than any of your macs at any given point.
and it has the bluray and the cell.

I'm Sold.

Dagless
Jun 8, 2006, 06:54 PM
Nah, all silliness aside. Sony will fall back to realistic street eventually. Right now they just seem to be running a scorched earth on their gaming division. like they've been taken over by I dunno... 3DO?

Monk Edsel
Jun 8, 2006, 08:19 PM
I can't put any stock in that "interview." They aren't even sure if that's the real translation or not. I also get the impression that it's Kutaragi's words mixed in with speculation as to what it is he means. But again, who knows, because the quality of the translation is dubious. And even if they were to release something like PS3.5, would developers even bother to try to take advantage of the enhanced capability when most of the user base has PS3.0? Historically, add-ons and upgrades have failed, and this is why. Sony could upgrade later versions of the PS3 any way they wanted, but only first party games would be likely to make use of the upgrades.

Haoshiro
Jun 8, 2006, 08:26 PM
Of course, perhaps they have designed the PS3 in such a way that for future generations they can simply extend the platform without need to re-design it.

So for PS4 they would be able to beef up the Cell (more cells, etc) add memory, and put in a new GPU. Then developers wouldn't have to relearn development at all and they would retain their full backwards-compatibility with ease.

This would be a very good plan I'd think, as long as it was executed properly.

aussiemac86
Jun 8, 2006, 08:34 PM
"The PlayStation 3 is a computer. We do not need the PC."

Yeh id like to see this guy try to type a thesis on a PS3.

Lets face it for 90% of computer use today (word proc, prof apps (vid/graphics editing), internet) the PS3 would suck horribly
...unless they bring out a keyboard and mouse....even then i doubt many people want to do word proc on their TV

saunders45
Jun 8, 2006, 08:44 PM
The "We do not need the PC" line has been taken out of context by most IMHO.

As I understand it, he was talking about the fact that most computer functions can be done on the PS3, because it runs Linux. Only problem with Linux? The lack of:
A) Professional apps from companies like Adobe
B) Games.

It's a PS3, so games are there. So for casual users, assuming Sony can package it up in a user friendly way, the PS3 actually will be usable as a PC. While it's unlikely to REPLACE their PC's (he never said that),

Then what the heck does "We do not need the PC mean?" Seriously, it's going to be freakin' hype bullcrap. I'm sorry that you actually think that they are going to put an operational and useable version of Linux on the PS3, but it will not happen if they have any sanity and understanding of cheaters. Look at how many PS2 games are full of cheaters? Ever tried to play a game of SOCOM? With your supposed Linux version, it would be a living hell. Sorry bud, ain't gonna happen.

srobert
Jun 9, 2006, 08:30 AM
Sony is starting to annoy me with their arrogance. Sure, I love the PlayStation but I could do without the Ego and the words placed into my mouth.

If you consider the Playstation 3 a toy, then yes, it is an expensive toy. However, it is more than a toy. It is a Playstation 3. And it is the only Playstation 3."

It's probably too cheap. (Regarding PS3's price)

Is it not nonsense to compare the charge for dinner at the company cafeteria with dinner at a fine restaurant? It's a question of what you can do with that game machine. If you can have an amazing experience, we believe price is not a problem.

Microsoft is trailing behind us, but they are not a threat. They are good at improving on products, but we will be advancing to the next level with revolutionary technology. Beating us for a short moment is like accidentally winning a point from a Shihan (Karate master), and Microsoft is still not a black belt.

This time, ours [the PS3] will be like a BMW that's equipped with a Ferrari engine. Nintendo's [Revolution] will be something like a new model of a family car. Some people might want it, but if it was me, I'd want to advance to the next level.

consumers to think to themselves, 'I will work more hours to buy one.' We want people to feel that they want it, irrespective of anything else.

We have built up a certain brand equity over time since the launch of PlayStation in 1995 and PS2 in 2000 that the first five million are going to buy it, whatever it is, even it didn't have games.

Let's not even talk about Sony BGM…

bokdol
Jun 9, 2006, 08:57 AM
It's ridiculous.

The whole point of a console is that its all in one and doesnt need upgrading and your safe to run your games on for its entire lifespan.

Creating a console with scalable levels because you plan to update it is really annoying to the 100th degree.....

More and more reason to avoid ps3 altogether.

lol many consols have been upgradable.
just think since the sega geneses/megadrive.
they had the sega cd upgrade.
the 32 x udrade.

nintendo 64 had the zipdrive attachment and the memory modual to make things faster.

the sega saturn had a 4 meg cartridge to play 2d fighting games better.

the dreamcast has the removable modem.

the gamecube has like 3 ports that people have no idea what they are for.
except on to put on the gba add on.

the ps2 had the hd port for an upgrade with modem.

and the xbox 360 has the hd port.

while most consoles dont need upgrading. most can be upgraded in some way.

think of how awesome and giant the ps3 can be with something like a 32x addon to improve graphics to be super real. hell in a few years it will be as big as the render farms at pixar.

sixstorm
Jun 9, 2006, 09:18 AM
I think that there has been more disappointment in the PS3 than any system I've seen in a long time. Not that I'm going to buy one (360 FTW biaaa biaaa), but most message boards have nothing but complainers about how the PS3 is so expensive, how the lower end model is going to suck without HDMI and a hard drive, and so forth. And the funny thing is that unless you pay $700 (after tax) for the higher-end model, you won't get a descent gaming system. What a rip off!

Haoshiro
Jun 9, 2006, 09:30 AM
lol many consols have been upgradable.
just think since the sega geneses/megadrive.
they had the sega cd upgrade.
the 32 x udrade.

The problem with this is that those systems that had actual upgrades (not just an accessories like a modem/hdd) have been complete failures.

32X? Sega CD? 64DD?

XNine
Jun 9, 2006, 09:44 AM
"The PlayStation 3 is a computer. We do not need the PC."

Yeh id like to see this guy try to type a thesis on a PS3.

Lets face it for 90% of computer use today (word proc, prof apps (vid/graphics editing), internet) the PS3 would suck horribly
...unless they bring out a keyboard and mouse....even then i doubt many people want to do word proc on their TV

Apparently you don't know that the PS2 had a Linux kit, complete with keyboard and mouse. With the PS3 you'll be able to use a bluetooth or USB keyboard and mouse. No worries there my friend.

As for the interview in the original post, I agree that it's shady. More FUD if you ask me.

Dagless
Jun 9, 2006, 10:03 AM
lol many consols have been upgradable.
just think since the sega geneses/megadrive.
they had the sega cd upgrade.
the 32 x udrade.

nintendo 64 had the zipdrive attachment and the memory modual to make things faster.

the sega saturn had a 4 meg cartridge to play 2d fighting games better.

the dreamcast has the removable modem.

the gamecube has like 3 ports that people have no idea what they are for.
except on to put on the gba add on.

the ps2 had the hd port for an upgrade with modem.

and the xbox 360 has the hd port.

while most consoles dont need upgrading. most can be upgraded in some way.

think of how awesome and giant the ps3 can be with something like a 32x addon to improve graphics to be super real. hell in a few years it will be as big as the render farms at pixar.

Nicely compiled list, but have you noticed how any of those failed to take off? (edit, thanks Haoshiro, i should proabably read the full thread before opening up a new Quote window)
the only upgradable machine (other than a PC) I have seen do fairly well was the Amiga desktop workstations. But that's like buying a PowerMac as a word processor. Incidentally, it lost Commodore a lot of money. alright so it didn't do well!

bokdol
Jun 9, 2006, 10:10 AM
The problem with this is that those systems that had actual upgrades (not just an accessories like a modem/hdd) have been complete failures.

32X? Sega CD? 64DD?

Nicely compiled list, but have you noticed how any of those failed to take off?


yes they were.........


but i did have the monstrousity that was the orrginial wide body genesis with the lower cd attachment and the 32x add on. it was soo much bigger then any xbox or ps3 and i loved it. even if the 32x sucked balls.

MacRumorUser
Jun 9, 2006, 10:28 AM
lol many consols have been upgradable.
just think since the sega geneses/megadrive.
they had the sega cd upgrade.
the 32 x udrade.

nintendo 64 had the zipdrive attachment and the memory modual to make things faster.

the sega saturn had a 4 meg cartridge to play 2d fighting games better.

the dreamcast has the removable modem.

.

All those add ons FAILED so what's your point? :)

Oh wait I get you. You agree with me that an upgradeable CONSOLE is generally utter BOLLOX! And has the past proves, inevitably dies a horrible death.

greatdevourer
Jun 9, 2006, 11:02 AM
If you consider the Playstation 3 a toy, then yes, it is an expensive toy. However, it is more than a toy. It is a Playstation 3. And it is the only Playstation 3. I don't get that comment, because all the way through the rest of their marketing crap, they're telling me that it's not just a PS3, but a supercomputer, video editor and a sandwich toaster as well :confused:

MacRumorUser
Jun 9, 2006, 11:04 AM
I don't get that comment, because all the way through the rest of their marketing crap, they're telling me that it's not just a PS3, but a supercomputer, video editor and a sandwich toaster as well :confused:

They are having real difficulty of where to go and where to promote this to. After the inevitable christmas panic, Sony are going to be in some serious hot water....

saunders45
Jun 9, 2006, 01:06 PM
Apparently you don't know that the PS2 had a Linux kit, complete with keyboard and mouse.

Along with the ability to render Toy Story like graphics in real time.;)

Dagless
Jun 9, 2006, 01:43 PM
I thought those PS2 Linux things were a myth. Up here in Europe I never saw one for sale. No HDD either.

They can pump all this b*****s all they want. if they don't deliver the needed equipment to the right places then cheerio.
It's like saying the Xbox 1 is a damn good media centre. it IS... but you need to mod it. The PS2 has linux and a HDD... if you buy it and your country sells it.

ho hum. I smell another N64DD to be honest. no. I smell another Virtual Boy.

srobert
Jun 9, 2006, 01:47 PM
ho hum. I smell another N64DD to be honest. no. I smell another Virtual Boy.

Ouch! that's low! :D

Even with all the bad press. I think that the PS3 will do well enough in Japan.

But, Sony will have to get back in touch with their audience. Right now, they seem more interested in saying what we should be wanting rather than finding out what we actually want. Maybe they need new blood in upper management.

XNine
Jun 9, 2006, 02:14 PM
I thought those PS2 Linux things were a myth. Up here in Europe I never saw one for sale. No HDD either.

They can pump all this b*****s all they want. if they don't deliver the needed equipment to the right places then cheerio.
It's like saying the Xbox 1 is a damn good media centre. it IS... but you need to mod it. The PS2 has linux and a HDD... if you buy it and your country sells it.

ho hum. I smell another N64DD to be honest. no. I smell another Virtual Boy.

They weren't in stores, you had to go through the Playstation Underground to get it. The UK was able to get the Linux kit as well as the USA, Canada, and Japan. If I remember correctly, it came with a USB keyboard, mouse, Linux Dev Kit, Linux OS, and Linux Fully Bootable CD along with some other things. Did it take off? No, not necessarily. But it paved the way for future implementation, i.e. the PS3.

The Xbox is a rancid media center even when modded. It doesn't have enough RAM to compensate for video streaming, even at low qualities. Playing from the HD is fine, but streaming video to it is lousy. Music it can handle just fine, the caching tends to be a little slow, but once it's done it plays smooth.

I've seen several game critics and reviewers who actually write their reviews from the PS2 Linux kit. So, yes, it did exist.

Dagless
Jun 9, 2006, 03:21 PM
They weren't in stores, you had to go through the Playstation Underground to get it. The UK was able to get the Linux kit as well as the USA, Canada, and Japan. If I remember correctly, it came with a USB keyboard, mouse, Linux Dev Kit, Linux OS, and Linux Fully Bootable CD along with some other things. Did it take off? No, not necessarily. But it paved the way for future implementation, i.e. the PS3.

The Xbox is a rancid media center even when modded. It doesn't have enough RAM to compensate for video streaming, even at low qualities. Playing from the HD is fine, but streaming video to it is lousy. Music it can handle just fine, the caching tends to be a little slow, but once it's done it plays smooth.

I've seen several game critics and reviewers who actually write their reviews from the PS2 Linux kit. So, yes, it did exist.

You seem to be in the know, what happened with the PSX? In the UK the PS1 was known as the PSX, but I had my wrist slapped a few times for calling it that on the worldwide forums. Is it just etiquette not to call it that?

re the Media Centre. I dunno. I had no streaming issues what so ever on 100mbps regular old LAN cable from my Powerbook. no lag, nothing. Times it ran DivX's that my PowerBook would occasionally unsync the audio on VLC.

XNine
Jun 9, 2006, 03:53 PM
You seem to be in the know, what happened with the PSX? In the UK the PS1 was known as the PSX, but I had my wrist slapped a few times for calling it that on the worldwide forums. Is it just etiquette not to call it that?

re the Media Centre. I dunno. I had no streaming issues what so ever on 100mbps regular old LAN cable from my Powerbook. no lag, nothing. Times it ran DivX's that my PowerBook would occasionally unsync the audio on VLC.

PSX is the right term, anyone from any other country that tells you different should get a kick in the nuts. The PS1 was the later system that was slimmed down. The PSX was the original system.

With the Xbox, I've experimented with two modded boxes, but both of them were early systems (Version 1.0 and 1.1) so that may be the issue. There may have been more RAM on later systems (especially version 1.6) allowing for better video streaming...

AP_piano295
Jun 9, 2006, 04:07 PM
Has a console in the price range of 600 dollars ever suceeded?

MacRumorUser
Jun 9, 2006, 04:08 PM
Has a console in the price range of 600 dollars ever suceeded?

NO

2nyRiggz
Jun 9, 2006, 04:09 PM
^We'll see.....PS3 will not flop..even if the price is too high...sony will drop the price and still make a *beep* load of money.


Bless

Dagless
Jun 9, 2006, 04:32 PM
^We'll see.....PS3 will not flop..even if the price is too high...sony will drop the price and still make a *beep* load of money.


Bless

Even if they drop the system price the gaming division needs to make profit. There are 2 main areas in this market where money is made (or lost, the other markets being accessories and online service) - consoles and games. If the system is sold at a loss where will they make their money? games.
A good example of the same strategy is the PSP. They are sold at a loss (IIRC) and Sony make money back through games. Which is why, for a disc based medium, they cost MORE than DS carts. Hey how's that for a stupid balancing act?

They can NOT lose money on both games and console.

So, say you have your £350 console (if Sony drop the price of the £430 model). Suddenly you're buying £60 games for it, or as the case will be, not.

...to quote MacRumorUser

NO

Money will have to be made somewhere.

Haoshiro
Jun 9, 2006, 04:35 PM
You seem to be in the know, what happened with the PSX? In the UK the PS1 was known as the PSX, but I had my wrist slapped a few times for calling it that on the worldwide forums. Is it just etiquette not to call it that?

PS1 has always been called the PSX. Then Sony decided to actually makes a system called the "PSX" which was basically a Media Center + PS2 that released in Japan only.

That is probably why some people will shout, some people get confused on whether someone means the PS1 or the "PSX" when PSX is used (understandbly). I only began to see people use "PS1" when Sony did the release of the PlayStation they called "PSOne" (small, nice, white machine).

Hope that clarifies it. :)

2nyRiggz
Jun 9, 2006, 04:39 PM
Even if they drop the system price the gaming division needs to make profit. There are 2 main areas in this market where money is made (or lost, the other markets being accessories and online service) - consoles and games. If the system is sold at a loss where will they make their money? games.
A good example of the same strategy is the PSP. They are sold at a loss (IIRC) and Sony make money back through games. Which is why, for a disc based medium, they cost MORE than DS carts. Hey how's that for a stupid balancing act?

They can NOT lose money on both games and console.

So, say you have your £350 console (if Sony drop the price of the £430 model). Suddenly you're buying £60 games for it, or as the case will be, not.

...to quote MacRumorUser
Money will have to be made somewhere.

And with all of that you still think sony will fail huh.....We'll see and i'm voting NO. Sony will make money of this console at the price of $600...People are hungry for the system no matter what you hear on the net.

Haoshiro
Jun 9, 2006, 04:53 PM
And with all of that you still think sony will fail huh.....We'll see and i'm voting NO. Sony will make money of this console at the price of $600...People are hungry for the system no matter what you hear on the net.

Well Sony has said that, that regardless of price or content they are garaunteed to sell the first 5 million.

I think what they may be planning, and it would be a good plan, is to launch very high, let the first batch sell out that they know will.... then drop the price by $100 after, say, the first 6 months.

Suddenly all the people complaining will jump up and get the system because it's "so much cheaper now!" ... even though it'll actually still be $500. Consumer manipulation like that has been proven to work quite effectively.

Dagless
Jun 9, 2006, 05:27 PM
Consumer manipulation like that has been proven to work quite effectively.

Hell if I'm being manipulated like that. in the bad way.

Haoshiro
Jun 10, 2006, 08:02 AM
Hell if I'm being manipulated like that. in the bad way.

I'll quote you on that in the future if need be! Heheheh. Come 2007 I can hear it now "raggedjimmi: now that the PS3 finally had a good price cut I'm picking one up with a few games!" - after PS3 price drops $100. ;)

DEXTERITY
Jun 10, 2006, 08:59 AM
And with all of that you still think sony will fail huh.....We'll see and i'm voting NO. Sony will make money of this console at the price of $600...People are hungry for the system no matter what you hear on the net.


Sony themselves admitted they lose a lot of money per ps3 at that price and they will lose 1 billion the first year alone. so how are they making money at $600 much less a price drop..

Dagless
Jun 10, 2006, 09:55 AM
I'll quote you on that in the future if need be! Heheheh. Come 2007 I can hear it now "raggedjimmi: now that the PS3 finally had a good price cut I'm picking one up with a few games!" - after PS3 price drops $100. ;)

drop of $100? your kidding me. To sell in the UK it's going to need to be 300 MAX. to garner any interest from me it'll need to be 200.
Like my PSP escapades, I'll suddenly become desperate for one only to fight tooth and nail to sell it.
also with the PS3 being used as little more than a way to get BluRay into homes... I'm not falling for it. I'm not buying into something that might not even take off. no thanks.

GFLPraxis
Jun 10, 2006, 10:44 AM
Sony themselves admitted they lose a lot of money per ps3 at that price and they will lose 1 billion the first year alone. so how are they making money at $600 much less a price drop..

That was an analyst.

I'll quote you on that in the future if need be! Heheheh. Come 2007 I can hear it now "raggedjimmi: now that the PS3 finally had a good price cut I'm picking one up with a few games!" - after PS3 price drops $100. ;)


Followed by him selling it a week later :D

Haoshiro
Jun 12, 2006, 08:13 AM
Further news...

Sony Delays Blu-ray Player (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/712/712001p1.html)