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DEXTERITY
Jun 8, 2006, 04:36 PM
Didn't know their were 7GB SD cards..This could be bogus, but supposedly....

The upcoming issue of Game Informer allegedly features information which was leaked online earlier today - only to then promptly disappear. The news was that the Wii will feature a built-in camera to allow you to put your face on character models in games (or even in your online profile, if recent patent news is to be believed).

Other details from the article included that ATi's graphics chip will support HDR and bump mapping, and that the console will feature a hardware physics processor with 32 Mb of dedicated RAM built-in, enough to take the load off of the IBM CPU.

Additionally, a headset will be apparently be packed-in with the console or sold separately (giving yet more credence to rumours of voice-chat). Not only this, but SD memory cards will apparently be available to buy, ranging in size from 2 GB to 7 GB for unspecified prices - this would certainly solve any worries about memory limitations.


http://www.revo-europe.com/news.php?nid=9251

edit article apparently contained more info which is:

Pros-

-Inexpensive graphics development.

-Developer-friendly “camera” program

-Will support HDR lighting, normal maps, bump-mapping, nurbs rendering, and panoramically-composted depth-composited cubemappng, ray-tracing.

-Chipsets are very inexpensive although EXTREMELY powerful, WILL incorporate many aspects of the Project Reality study.

-Nintendo is providing extensive documentation to ease the incorporation of the Wii-mote.

-Cons-

-Challenging to program effectively for the Wii-mote, due to it being very new to the industry.

-Marketing to be more challenging for bigger third-party franchises due to nature of the innovative qualities.

-The development cycle to possibly equal the time cycles of PS3 and Xbox360 due to the time needed to be innovative and effectively program for the controller.

-The challenge of marketing the Wii’s controller in ads and commercial may turn third-parties away from exclusivity. (The challenge to display through ads how “playing is believing”)


-The Final Secret/minor surprises also-

-Wii will include a built-in decent resolution camera that can be used to add your face to character models and add innovation to games. These snapshots can be tweaked as well. It is still being decided whether to allow camera to record and stream video. Mention made to have this feature be a strong feature in online play.

-A wireless headset will be made available at launch.

-SD cards will range from 2GB to 7GB and will be priced “within reason”.

-A new router technology is still in development and not yet available to developers. In the final product Nintendo hopes to be able to make every Wii a sort of “Wi-Fi hotspot” with each user connecting to that user and so on. They also want to be able to allow different users to share things and are thinking about setting up a pseudo-P2P network through Connect24, where users can share content and “other things”. This means that even if you have a dial-up connection or no internet, you can still connect to Wii Connect24.

-The Wii will indeed have a PPU included in final hardware. It will have only 32MB though, which will still take a considerable amount of pressure off of other chips.

-A still-in-development simple dev tool will be made available to users through the Connect24 network. It will allow users to create a simple game in 2D or simple 3D and share it with the world. This will hopefully be available on the network by launch.

-The last big secret is the “graphics solution”. It revolves around a whole lot of non-volatile RAM (opting out of HDD support, RAM is much faster than a HDD). And a development interface that centers on a AI-controlled command-line interface. This additional tech only included in final dev kits, while most developers don’t have access to final dev kits.

sb58
Jun 8, 2006, 04:41 PM
I had already heard of that first part... i even saw pictures that accompanied it. The other part really doesn't matter much to me though. I guess i'll see when i get the next Game Informer then.

Dagless
Jun 8, 2006, 04:43 PM
Ah I don't believe any of that. I'd like to. but 7gb SD cards? :)

Though I will be buying the largest sized SD card available when the Wii is launched. 4gb or 7gb. So long as it's just epic for save files and WiiConnect games.

DEXTERITY
Jun 8, 2006, 04:45 PM
That's what I'm thinking where did 7GB SD cards come from all of a sudden..

GFLPraxis
Jun 8, 2006, 05:10 PM
I think this is completely fake. GameInformer are also the ones who claimed that the Revolution's secret controller was a touch screen.




-Developer-friendly “camera” program


-The development cycle to possibly equal the time cycles of PS3 and Xbox360 due to the time needed to be innovative and effectively program for the controller.

Possible but I find it unlikely.


-Will support HDR lighting, normal maps, bump-mapping, nurbs rendering, and panoramically-composted depth-composited cubemappng, ray-tracing.

Woah woah woah. I specificly asked one of the Blitz Games devs at E3 about Bloom and HDR. He said Bloom yes (in software), HDR no.

Further...NURBS rendering takes a heck of a lot of power, and RAY-TRACING? Ray-tracing in a console? Is that even possible? If the Wii could do NURBS and ray-tracing it could render STAR WARS.



-The development cycle to possibly equal the time cycles of PS3 and Xbox360 due to the time needed to be innovative and effectively program for the controller.

Every single one of my interviewees at E3 disagreed with this and felt games were cheaper and faster to produce on the Wii.


-The Wii will indeed have a PPU included in final hardware. It will have only 32MB though, which will still take a considerable amount of pressure off of other chips.

Check the prices on PPUs, then laugh at GameInformer.



-A new router technology is still in development and not yet available to developers. In the final product Nintendo hopes to be able to make every Wii a sort of “Wi-Fi hotspot” with each user connecting to that user and so on. They also want to be able to allow different users to share things and are thinking about setting up a pseudo-P2P network through Connect24, where users can share content and “other things”. This means that even if you have a dial-up connection or no internet, you can still connect to Wii Connect24.

Do these people even use WiFi? Unless Nintendo is using WiMax, the thought is silly. The range is not that great.

Haoshiro
Jun 8, 2006, 05:18 PM
GFLPraxis: Ray-tracing? Sure. Have you ever seen the demos for the real-time ray-tracing engine on the PC? Pretty impressive last time I checked it out.

That said, most of things seem to have came straight from that other "insider" report (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=206003) that said we'd see MGS4 on Wii and 100% photo-realistic graphics! :P

DeSnousa
Jun 8, 2006, 05:22 PM
I believe Nintendo has some other stuff up there sleeves, whether or not the article is true or not.

The camera seems like a possibility as wasn't there a thread that said that Wii Sports would allow you to take a photo and upload it as your player. I guess you could take pictures on you SD digital camera instead?

GFLPraxis
Jun 8, 2006, 05:22 PM
Hm, I'm used to raytracing as taking insane amounts of work.

Is it full raytracing like the kind they use in movies, or a pseudo-version that takes less work? Maybe I'm just behind there.

But I'm not mistaken about Star Wars; the remakes of the original trilogy were all NURBS and ray-traced. A $200 system with NURBS and ray-tracing is just ridiculous.

Haoshiro
Jun 8, 2006, 06:27 PM
Hm, I'm used to raytracing as taking insane amounts of work.

Is it full raytracing like the kind they use in movies, or a pseudo-version that takes less work? Maybe I'm just behind there.

But I'm not mistaken about Star Wars; the remakes of the original trilogy were all NURBS and ray-traced. A $200 system with NURBS and ray-tracing is just ridiculous.

It really isn't that ridiculous, the problem is that so far all ray-tracing is done completely by the CPU through software. If there was a hardware accelerated ray-tracing chip in production it would be far less a problem.

I found the engine I was thinking about as well as some other links:
- RealStorm Engine (http://www.realstorm.com/)
- inTrace Realtime Ray-Tracing Technologies (http://www.intrace.com/)
- RTRT - Real-Time Ray-Tracing (http://graphics.cs.uni-sb.de/RTRT.old/)
- Quake3: Raytraced (http://graphics.cs.uni-sb.de/~sidapohl/egoshooter/)

It has long been believed that ray-tracing would one day replace the current poly/vertex way of doing 3D graphics as it is MUCH more accurate and the reality is far superior in terms of effects and lighting (since that really is what ray-tracing is all about, Light... just like the real world). But I have never heard of any solid ray-tracing hardware so far...

This would support the "Project Reality" rumors posted in the other article as well, but for a company like Nintendo to adopt retracing, well heck... that would be a huge thing and I'd definitely take the "will believe it when I see it" stance.

Crazy idea: Everything we have seen on the Wii so far is running off GCN hardware, which will be included in the Wii (ala the PS2 chip in PS3) and will also support the new controller... but the *actual systems hardware* had not been revealed: A fully hardware accelerated Ray-Tracing system for unbeatable visuals in a completely as-of-yet unused and innovative way. "How many polys does the competition have? We don't even need polys. The next generation starts when Wii say it does!"

Bubbasteve
Jun 8, 2006, 08:09 PM
I'll believe it when I see it...or read it

mac000
Jun 8, 2006, 08:32 PM
is there anyway to dig up issue 159 July of Game Informer on the internet?? I've been trying for a while but i cant find it..:confused:

atari1356
Jun 8, 2006, 11:21 PM
The 7Gb SD cards seem like an odd size... right now the highest available is 4Gb, and I would expect the next ones would be 8Gb.

Better graphics would be nice, but I'm happy with what my Gamecube is capable of - and I'm not getting an HDTV anytime soon, so...

kineticpast
Jun 9, 2006, 12:09 AM
Check the prices on PPUs, then laugh at GameInformer.
The NES had a PPU. The PS3 will have a PPU. Why can't Wii?

/me waits for someone to get the stupid joke.

Amishexmachina
Jun 9, 2006, 12:27 AM
One of the single most innovative things for the Wii, and I think it's the thing that doesn't get ANY attention, was how cheap they made the dev kits for it. Can you throw together a few thousand bucks? Here's one!

The impact of that is really really really relevant, because nintendo's achillies heel with the gamecube was third party games. With the dev kits costing less then PSP dev kits, that means that a small team of guys can make a bunch of really small, innovative games for no money. Think about the success of Geometry Wars for the 360, then add a really innovative controller to the mix.

DeSnousa
Jun 9, 2006, 12:33 AM
One of the single most innovative things for the Wii, and I think it's the thing that doesn't get ANY attention, was how cheap they made the dev kits for it. Can you throw together a few thousand bucks? Here's one!

The impact of that is really really really relevant, because nintendo's achillies heel with the gamecube was third party games. With the dev kits costing less then PSP dev kits, that means that a small team of guys can make a bunch of really small, innovative games for no money. Think about the success of Geometry Wars for the 360, then add a really innovative controller to the mix.

If I was correct I believe raggedjimmi and a couple of his mates are thinking of getting a dev kit :)

That would be sweet if he does, raggedjimmi I hope you port Satan Sam :D

digitdean
Jun 9, 2006, 12:44 AM
Heheheh, leaking Wii.

GFLPraxis
Jun 9, 2006, 01:07 AM
If I was correct I believe raggedjimmi and a couple of his mates are thinking of getting a dev kit :)

That would be sweet if he does, raggedjimmi I hope you port Satan Sam :D

I'm thinking of doing the same thing, I just wonder if Nintendo will sell dev kits to individuals and unheard of developers.

I hope they at least provide some kind of free/cheap virtual console dev kit to individuals. Brain Age was created with a team of 3 people, correct?

Kernow
Jun 9, 2006, 02:57 AM
If I remember correctly, this camera idea has been around for a while. I seem to recall that this was going to be part of the original Perfect Dark for the N64, but was withdrawn at the last minute due to concerns over the possible impact on kids running around shooting their mates. It was going to be used with the camera that actually was released for the GameBoy. It's interesting to see they've resurrected the idea and I wonder if they will implement it for shooters.

RoxStrongo
Jun 9, 2006, 03:47 AM
it certainly would be a turn-around for nintendo to be encouraging a homebrew scene. after all, the original nintendo seal of quality was introduced to discourage it.

Dagless
Jun 9, 2006, 03:52 AM
If I was correct I believe raggedjimmi and a couple of his mates are thinking of getting a dev kit :)

That would be sweet if he does, raggedjimmi I hope you port Satan Sam :D

I'm planning on buying 1 for personal use, then when my team is ready I just share it around :p just so I could make a Satan Sam game if I wanted. a bit of extra polish here and there... magic! Or the New Satan Sam 2 I'm working on :eek: *shhhh*

Haoshiro
Jun 9, 2006, 08:46 AM
I think you all are really miscalculating here if you think a Dev Kit is the only cost involved to make a game for Wii (or any system).

Beyond the dev costs (since garage-indies could develop in their spare time and with volunteer help from friends), there is still a cost in the media involved.

When I was researching and planning for a GBA game I found out a lot of information from Nintendo resources as well as other GBA developers.

Nintendo, firstly, will require you purchase a minimum amount of media. For GBA these were the carts/boxes and for GCN this would be Discs/Cases; I am sure this is the same for Wii as well. This minimum order for GBA was between $20K-$40K in cost (you sent them the game and art, the manufactured and sent you the final retail product).

Now beyond that, you have to submit your game before they will even let you buy the media/packaging. Nintendo has a department that takes your game and thoroughly reviews and tests it, if for any reason they think it is no retail-worthy you will be told and are either out of luck or you have to get to work resolving all issues (like, say, "it's not fun", etc).

Now if they have a special area like Xbox Live Arcade where indy games can be electronically distributed this would solve some or all of these issues, but my guess is that (just like Live Arcade) there will be limits imposed on size/content for such games.

atari1356
Jun 9, 2006, 09:17 AM
Now if they have a special area like Xbox Live Arcade where indy games can be electronically distributed this would solve some or all of these issues, but my guess is that (just like Live Arcade) there will be limits imposed on size/content for such games.

Yeah, if they're going to have an area for downloading 3rd party games, I would imagine they'll have some sort of review process that games have to go through before being included -- mainly to keep out the porn/ultra-violence, but also ensure at least some level of quality.

The other question with that would be: will there be any system in place for those independent developers to sell their games? Perhaps that would be handled through the Wii's web browser? (go to the developer's web site, give them your credit card number, or pay through Paypal... then they send you a serial number/access key to play the full game). Or, Nintendo handles the payment system and takes a cut of the money, then sends the rest to the developer?

GFLPraxis
Jun 9, 2006, 09:50 AM
Now if they have a special area like Xbox Live Arcade where indy games can be electronically distributed this would solve some or all of these issues, but my guess is that (just like Live Arcade) there will be limits imposed on size/content for such games.

That's EXACTLY what we're talking about. Nintendo confirmed that the Virtual Console will be used to distribute new titles for around $5 a pop, online. No manufacturing costs. The only costs are development, and getting Nintendo's approval.

Dagless
Jun 9, 2006, 10:07 AM
I think you all are really miscalculating here if you think a Dev Kit is the only cost involved to make a game for Wii (or any system).

Beyond the dev costs (since garage-indies could develop in their spare time and with volunteer help from friends), there is still a cost in the media involved.

When I was researching and planning for a GBA game I found out a lot of information from Nintendo resources as well as other GBA developers.

Nintendo, firstly, will require you purchase a minimum amount of media. For GBA these were the carts/boxes and for GCN this would be Discs/Cases; I am sure this is the same for Wii as well. This minimum order for GBA was between $20K-$40K in cost (you sent them the game and art, the manufactured and sent you the final retail product).

Now beyond that, you have to submit your game before they will even let you buy the media/packaging. Nintendo has a department that takes your game and thoroughly reviews and tests it, if for any reason they think it is no retail-worthy you will be told and are either out of luck or you have to get to work resolving all issues (like, say, "it's not fun", etc).

Now if they have a special area like Xbox Live Arcade where indy games can be electronically distributed this would solve some or all of these issues, but my guess is that (just like Live Arcade) there will be limits imposed on size/content for such games.

Oh no no no, you misjudged my ideas. I don't plan on making disc based games, I'd need publishers and other huge costs for that. I just plan on bringing 1 man (or small team) games to the Wii. Solo games will be 2D, team ones, who knows. if we have a 3D coder and artist on board then yea fine. My personal games will be tiddy too. few 'mb here and there.
basically it's what I'm doing now with those PC games, but in C++ for the Wii.

and yes. there will probably be a review process. but hey. in C++ if Nintendo don't want it then perhaps MS or Sony will ;) or just the PC.

jdechko
Jun 9, 2006, 10:19 AM
We also can think about homebrew, which is still a (strong-in light of the discussion) possibility on the Wii. Then it doesn't matter how Nintendo distributes the "good" (subjectively) games because we can download jimmi's and others' games from his website, save them to an SD card and play them on the Wii.

Haoshiro
Jun 9, 2006, 10:33 AM
and yes. there will probably be a review process. but hey. in C++ if Nintendo don't want it then perhaps MS or Sony will ;) or just the PC.

I've heard there are some indie developers making a Killing off of Live Arcade... I'd say, port to both!! :D

I am always on my Mac so I haven't had a chance to try your game, but I bet I'd have bought it already if it was on Live Arcade (I've already bought abotu 4 games off it).