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View Full Version : Apple Releases Three More Mac Versus PC Ads


Texas04
Jun 12, 2006, 01:32 PM
So there is a new Apple AD on CNN, it has the same two character and depicts the "Out of the Box" Apple Easyness. Very Funny... :D Hadnt seen any threads on it so thought I might make one!! It is pretty funny

CmdrLaForge
Jun 12, 2006, 01:38 PM
I am wondering why they are not putting it on their website

lexus
Jun 12, 2006, 01:49 PM
Who is in it?

AvSRoCkCO1067
Jun 12, 2006, 01:54 PM
Who is in it?

Sounds like the "same two characters" in the other ones...shrug :confused:

lexus
Jun 12, 2006, 02:16 PM
Sounds like the "same two characters" in the other ones...shrug :confused:
Oh ok sorry I did not read it correctly.

AvSRoCkCO1067
Jun 12, 2006, 02:32 PM
Oh ok sorry I did not read it correctly.

Don't worry about it :) - does anyone have confirmation that there is a new ad, or, even better, a link to view the new ad with?

amac4me
Jun 12, 2006, 03:40 PM
Apple has just released three more ads that promote the benefits of owning a Mac:

* Macs are into doing "Fun stuff"
* Macs work "Out of the box"
* Macs are "PCs too"

Link (http://soccernet-att.espn.go.com/scoreboard?league=fifa.world&lpos=wcnav&lid=gn_sn_fifa.world+Scoreboard&cc=5901) (just reload until they show up in the upper right)

Macmaniac
Jun 12, 2006, 03:43 PM
U TOOOOOOL!!!!!!
Warn us before u link a page, this was the soccernet page, and it showed the score for the USA game, I have been at work all day avoiding the score so I could watch it on TIVO without knowing the score!!!

Gah!

btw they are not there...

backupdrummer
Jun 12, 2006, 03:47 PM
Just kinda sad.

amac4me
Jun 12, 2006, 04:07 PM
The ads don't appear to be showing up on the Soccernet page (Sorry macmaniac)

However, someone has posted one of them on a site called Pointroll (http://speed.pointroll.com/PointRoll/Media/panels/Apple/118440/applMacs_Panl_300_061206_r05.swf?prTag=clk.pointroll.com/pc/?p=-118442&i=943E749B-662E-48ED-8567-3FF254CF1422&cTag=clickurl=clk.atdmt.com/TLA/go/cntnkapp0070000016tla/direct%3Bat.tlaapp0000007)

balamw
Jun 12, 2006, 04:13 PM
I caught "Fun Stuff" on soccernet and tried to e-mail it to myself, but it just sent me an URL to the page at apple.com which has yet to add the three new ones.

EDIT: Caught "Out of the Box" too, but not the last one.

B

rjphoto
Jun 12, 2006, 04:53 PM
http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/

is the one you are talking about on there?

EricNau
Jun 12, 2006, 05:00 PM
I am wondering why they are not putting it on their website
When they came out with the last ones it was several hours (or was it days?) before they put them on their website.

AvSRoCkCO1067
Jun 12, 2006, 05:13 PM
I like how they advertise 'Boot Camp' in one of them...

...although it stinks that they have to say, 'sold seperately' next to Windows.

longofest
Jun 12, 2006, 05:35 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple today quietly released new ads featuring the Mac and PC duo that have been the staple of Apple's "Get A Mac" campaign. Multiple users report having seen the ads, with themes including the following:

- Macs do "fun stuff"
- Macs work "out of the box"
- Macs are "PCs too"

The ads have not been posted to Apple's Get A Mac (http://www.apple.com/getamac/) site. At one point they could be reliably found at ESPN's Soccernet site (http://soccernet-att.espn.go.com/scoreboard?league=fifa.world&lpos=wcnav&lid=gn_sn_fifa.world+Scoreboard&cc=5901), however the ad appears to have been replaced.

Some_Big_Spoon
Jun 12, 2006, 05:38 PM
Flame me if you want, but these ads are not only lame, but ineffective. For some reason Steve-O seems to think that Macs can get by on the cool factor alone.

You want to sell the things? Show the OS, show the apps. Until then, you're setting money on fire.

EricNau
Jun 12, 2006, 05:40 PM
Flame me if you want, but these ads are not only lame, but ineffective. For some reason Steve-O seems to think that Macs can get by on the cool factor alone.

You want to sell the things? Show the OS, show the apps. Until then, you're setting money one fire.
This has been discussed before. In a 30-second time slot, and on a TV screen with a much, much lower resolution that a computer, it is hard to impress anybody (often it just looks horrible).

Some_Big_Spoon
Jun 12, 2006, 05:42 PM
That makes me feel safer frankly. :-)

...although it stinks that they have to say, 'sold seperately' next to Windows.

I know, I've chimed in on this in other threads too. To each their own, but if you want to sell a car, you usually show the car.

This has been discussed before. In a 30-second time slot, and on a TV screen with a much, much lower resolution that a computer, it is hard to impress anybody (often it just looks horrible).

djerati
Jun 12, 2006, 05:44 PM
:eek: The way Apple markets itself is to the dumb end user - try advertising more intelligently for a change! Not everything has to be simple to the point of "Mr. Professor's" Learn how to use a Computer E-mercials...

Real Mac people are generally more technology savvy than the average end user and dont need these really generic commercials...

Go back to 1983, much better promotions at that time.

thevessels
Jun 12, 2006, 05:45 PM
just saw the box one on mtv

zon7
Jun 12, 2006, 05:52 PM
You can also watch them here
http://speed.pointroll.com/PointRoll/Media/panels/Apple/118440/applMacs_Panl_300_061206_r05.swf?prVidId=1
http://speed.pointroll.com/PointRoll/Media/panels/Apple/118440/applMacs_Panl_300_061206_r05.swf?prVidId=2
http://speed.pointroll.com/PointRoll/Media/panels/Apple/118440/applMacs_Panl_300_061206_r05.swf?prVidId=3

Note: These links to not appear to work in Safari

dejo
Jun 12, 2006, 05:54 PM
I know, I've chimed in on this in other threads too. To each their own, but if you want to sell a car, you usually show the car.

I guess you didn't happen to notice that they show Macs at the end of the ad then. ;)

P.S. Holy crappy YouTube captures, Batman!

balamw
Jun 12, 2006, 05:58 PM
P.S. Holy crappy YouTube captures, Batman!
You'd think. But that's where soccernet was getting them. Thanks for the links zon7!

EDIT: Missed the update! Watch them on pointroll instead. Still crappy, but viewable.

B

jimsowden
Jun 12, 2006, 06:02 PM
These ads are much better, I think. Like the office Season 1 to Season 2 here in the US. I like the style of humor more, and it's done better.

nagromme
Jun 12, 2006, 06:02 PM
Flame me if you want, but these ads are not only lame, but ineffective. For some reason Steve-O seems to think that Macs can get by on the cool factor alone.

You want to sell the things? Show the OS, show the apps. Until then, you're setting money on fire.
Apple does needs to show the OS in depth, but not on TV. TV has to get people's attention and get them to learn more in venues where that is actually possible: Apple.com, Apple stores, etc.


Real Mac people are generally more technology savvy than the average end user and dont need these really generic commercials...
I'm not certain this campaign is aimed at "Real Mac People."

Some_Big_Spoon
Jun 12, 2006, 06:03 PM
As soon as I hit "Reply" I knew someone would say that :-)

You know what I meant though. :-P

I guess you didn't happen to notice that they show Macs at the end of the ad then. ;)

P.S. Holy crappy YouTube captures, Batman!

BornAgainMac
Jun 12, 2006, 06:04 PM
I am wondering why they are not putting it on their website

Because the quality is really bad compared to the others. Apple really messed up with encoding those videos. :rolleyes:

X5-452
Jun 12, 2006, 06:04 PM
:eek: The way Apple markets itself is to the dumb end user - try advertising more intelligently for a change! Not everything has to be simple to the point of "Mr. Professor's" Learn how to use a Computer E-mercials...

Real Mac people are generally more technology savvy than the average end user and dont need these really generic commercials...

Go back to 1983, much better promotions at that time.

Yes, but why would they air commercials aimed at "Real Mac people"? They already have those people as customers. The point of commercials is to get people to try your product and to get new customers, or in this case, Windows users (aka the "dumb end user").

toughboy
Jun 12, 2006, 06:07 PM
Flame me if you want, but these ads are not only lame, but ineffective. For some reason Steve-O seems to think that Macs can get by on the cool factor alone.

You want to sell the things? Show the OS, show the apps. Until then, you're setting money on fire.

nahh.. I like them..

But even if I didnt like them, isnt it better than nothing? ;)

BornAgainMac
Jun 12, 2006, 06:20 PM
I can see Apple having a Mac / PC on a price war on TV. Apple needs to show people that Macs are not expensive for what you get. Sell the customer on the benefits for the first few months.

Seems they have hit on some good points:
1) No viruses
2) No frequent freezes or reboots required (Targets the Win95/98 crowd)
3) Runs Office
4) Brags about ease of use
5) Software included like iLife
6) Working with new hardware
7) References (WSJ review)
8) Runs Windows too
9) Not boring

tangerineyum
Jun 12, 2006, 06:23 PM
i like them enough, for the people who dont like them. i think u expect too much. a couple 30 second spots isnt gonna make them suddenly decide they have to have mac. the idea is simply to introduce them to something new and different, pique their interest and plant the seed. and it does that quite well.

paulcmartens
Jun 12, 2006, 06:25 PM
A friend of mine has them posted, they are downloadable and good quality.

Go Here (http://web.mac.com/joseveber/iWeb/Apple/New%20Ads%20June%2012.html)

Core Trio
Jun 12, 2006, 06:26 PM
I feel like dedicating a commerical to BETA software (boot camp) is a bad idea.

nagromme
Jun 12, 2006, 06:27 PM
All ads irritate me, these definitely included.

And yet somehow, some ads work for some people. Weird. My dislike for them is irrelevant since I'm not the target. Nor is anyone who is already interested in Macs enough to register with a rumor site.

Hopefully these will appeal to some of the vast masses who use Windows "just because" and have never thought about it any further than that. There are quite a few people like that.

Leoff
Jun 12, 2006, 06:29 PM
You want to sell the things? Show the OS, show the apps. Until then, you're setting money on fire.

Please show me the last time you really saw Windows showcased, or even seen clearly, on any ad for Microsoft, Gateway, Dell, or any other computer.

Hell, please show me a Microsoft Windows ad for that fact.

DXoverDY
Jun 12, 2006, 06:30 PM
Because the quality is really bad compared to the others. Apple really messed up with encoding those videos. :rolleyes:

Those weren't encoded by Apple .... sheesh.

Edit: let me clarify. There's nothing stopping them from putting nice high res videos up like they have. I'm guessing it's more of a "We'll get to it soon." kind of thing. Those were "flash" videos. The YouTube ones are from a video camera looking at a tv it looked like. etc etc.

Ryan5505
Jun 12, 2006, 06:30 PM
Flame me if you want, but these ads are not only lame, but ineffective. For some reason Steve-O seems to think that Macs can get by on the cool factor alone.

You want to sell the things? Show the OS, show the apps. Until then, you're setting money on fire.

Placing OSX on a TV screen, are you serious. I love my powerbook, but if you placed screen shots or video for only 30 seconds would it really impress anyone or be able to show the true power of OSX, no. It would not send a clear message of what OSX is or how powerful it is in only 30 seconds, but I understand your complant, but it just would not work. I wish they would actually show more of the computers rather then a 3 second image at the end.

I agree the MAC ads need to focus on other things rather then how cool they are or how they can make a web site or look at pictures. I really wish they would go into the business world, I am a CPA and Financial adviser and its very hard to find software that I can trust for a mac, bootcamp may be my next option to operate windows software, something I did not want to do.

charlestrippy
Jun 12, 2006, 06:33 PM
did anyone else notice at the end it says "view all ads"? or am i just seeing things?

ih8pc
Jun 12, 2006, 06:35 PM
A good thing is to show the price of a macbook & a similar dell. Many people think that Macs are so damn expensive & think that dell's and all those other pieces of crap are cheaper but in reality they cost 1000 USD less

reyesmac
Jun 12, 2006, 06:39 PM
The new ads are getting better and better. The last time I remember Apple making commercials that actually talked about what a product could do was for the original imacs.

Macmaniac
Jun 12, 2006, 06:39 PM
Pretty good, the whole out of the box ad worked well. I liked the ad that referenced bootcamp, good idea, still run windows but own a Mac. That is a great incentive.

Oh and Microsoft has run a lot of ads, but they never show the OS, they are all about Microsoft helping u achieve things. The ads showed people, then a chalk overlay of what could be. Little kids, with astronaut costumes.

EricNau
Jun 12, 2006, 06:43 PM
These ads are great, but I'm afraid Apple is focusing too much on the everyday home user, and not businesses (and in the process showing why PCs are better for business). So far there is the commercial that says "PCs are better for spreadsheets" and now they have one stating "PCs can do time-sheets, spreadsheets and pie charts."

iPC
Jun 12, 2006, 06:45 PM
new ads suck, and when i say knew... i mean all of them with these two guys in them. just because you are selling machines with intel chips doesn't mean you have to spew ads for the lowest common denominator. it is not like you can buy a mac in a wal-mart... :mad:

amac4me
Jun 12, 2006, 06:49 PM
These ads are great, but I'm afraid Apple is focusing too much on the everyday home user, and not businesses (and in the process showing why PCs are better for business). So far there is the commercial that says "PCs are better for spreadsheets" and now they have one stating "PCs can do time-sheets, spreadsheets and pie charts."

Apple is focusing on the consumer sector right now because that is the segment of the market that can be easily penetrated. Once Apple makes further in-roads with consumers, they will begin to add more focus to the business sector.

Remember, Apple must satisfy Wall Street. Wall Street views Apple as a growth company and as far as the Mac is concerned, investors are concentrating on unit sales. The best way for Apple to meet (hopefully exceed) those demands is to concentrate on selling computers to consumers.

jaysmith
Jun 12, 2006, 06:51 PM
These ads are great, but I'm afraid Apple is focusing too much on the everyday home user, and not businesses (and in the process showing why PCs are better for business). So far there is the commercial that says "PCs are better for spreadsheets" and now they have one stating "PCs can do time-sheets, spreadsheets and pie charts."
wasn't there a commercial about running office on mac? that would tell anyone that macs are just as good at spreadsheets and charts. the main point they're trying to put out is that macs are on a much higher level, and doing spreadsheets isn't enough of an issue to wory about. i think these ads are effective.

balamw
Jun 12, 2006, 06:52 PM
did anyone else notice at the end it says "view all ads"? or am i just seeing things?
Just takes you to http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/ on the Flash versions. The new ads aren't there (yet).

B

EricNau
Jun 12, 2006, 06:52 PM
Apple is focusing on the consumer sector right now because that is the segment of the market that can be easily penetrated. Once Apple makes further in-roads with consumers, they will begin to add more focus to the business sector.

Remember, Apple must satisfy Wall Street. Wall Street views Apple as a growth company and as far as the Mac is concerned, investors are concentrating on unit sales. The best way for Apple to meet (hopefully exceed) those demands is to concentrate on selling computers to consumers.
I agree, but I just feel Apple has made a few comments that gives the impression that Macs aren't good for businesses. They could still target the average consumer without badmouthing themselves in the business area.
...I don't know, maybe I'm the only one who feels this way. :o

wasn't there a commercial about running office on mac? that would tell anyone that macs are just as good at spreadsheets and charts. the main point they're trying to put out is that macs are on a much higher level, and doing spreadsheets isn't enough of an issue to wory about. i think these ads are effective.
There was, but right after that the gist of the conversation went:

Mac: You should see what this guy can do with a spreadsheet.
PC: Thanks
Mac: Ya, and he knows I'm better at life stuff...

Giving the impression that the PC user is better with spreadsheets (IMO).

7on
Jun 12, 2006, 06:57 PM
These ads are great, but I'm afraid Apple is focusing too much on the everyday home user, and not businesses (and in the process showing why PCs are better for business). So far there is the commercial that says "PCs are better for spreadsheets" and now they have one stating "PCs can do time-sheets, spreadsheets and pie charts."

meh, Do you honestly think IT people sit in front of their TV waiting for a commercial about some new computer to justify their next mass purchase? Businesses hire people to buy their technical machines. Only way Apple is going to get the business is when staff start requesting Macs at work.

jaxstate
Jun 12, 2006, 07:07 PM
These are worse than the first batch. These are some of the most lame ads I've ever seen. But that's my .02. It probably works for some people.

balamw
Jun 12, 2006, 07:12 PM
Only way Apple is going to get the business is when staff start requesting Macs at work.
Amen! They need to start by getting the message to the masses, getting more Macs in schools again and then the kids tell their parents, their parents tell their IT guys, etc.. etc...

(BTW, the kindergarten my son's going to in the fall is all iMac. :D)

B

jimsowden
Jun 12, 2006, 07:13 PM
Up on Apple's site.
http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/

cornfedgrowth
Jun 12, 2006, 07:18 PM
Looks to me like the new ads are up on Apple's Website

http://www.apple.com/getamac

EDIT: AHHH... jimsowden, you beat me to it!

t1rider321
Jun 12, 2006, 07:20 PM
its dumb that apple mentions boot camp but doesnt support it

eva01
Jun 12, 2006, 07:21 PM
its dumb that apple mentions boot camp but doesnt support it

why would they support windows?

That is just stupid

age234
Jun 12, 2006, 07:25 PM
I think they're good, worth a chuckle.

But I agree with the others who said they should also be targeting companies as well. I'd like to see them do a remake of the Lemmings ad.

u2mr2os2
Jun 12, 2006, 07:25 PM
Up on Apple's site.
http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/

Also, only the original ads are in the initial list you see. You need to scroll the video list to the second group to see the new ones.

However, having informed people of this, there will still be people saying "where are they? I don't see them." :rolleyes:

dornoforpyros
Jun 12, 2006, 07:27 PM
umm out of the box....no downloads? excuse me?

Seems to be me every new mac I hook up involves software updates as well...

balamw
Jun 12, 2006, 07:29 PM
Direct links (medium):
http://movies.apple.com/movies/us/apple/getamac_ads2/touche_480x376.mov
http://movies.apple.com/movies/us/apple/getamac_ads2/box_480x376.mov
http://movies.apple.com/movies/us/apple/getamac_ads2/work_480x376.mov

B

Some_Big_Spoon
Jun 12, 2006, 07:35 PM
I was going to respond to this, but I figured it was pointless.

I'd be interested to see the ROI numbers on these ads. The switch ads seem to not have worked, so I maybe we'll see the stats on these in the next 6 months or so.

Please show me the last time you really saw Windows showcased, or even seen clearly, on any ad for Microsoft, Gateway, Dell, or any other computer.

Hell, please show me a Microsoft Windows ad for that fact.

MonksMac
Jun 12, 2006, 07:36 PM
The are freaking hilarious!

Some_Big_Spoon
Jun 12, 2006, 07:41 PM
Just because you request them doesn't mean you'll get them. Business weenies (you know, the financial geniuses that run companies into the ground on a daily basis) only see initial cost. That's it. Just what it costs to buy the things. Support, maintenance, all these things are thought of as separate, or not factored in at all. $500 for a PC, $1200 for a Mac, that's all they see.

Add to that all of the software they've either bought or custom built that only runs on Windows or Linux, and the extra person/people they'd have to hire to support the macs, the new software they'd have to build and buy, and the IT weasels that know if there were Macs their numbers would be thinned due to the exponentially lower support needed.

Asking for them is good, but can we fix the other stuff?

Only way Apple is going to get the business is when staff start requesting Macs at work.

FF_productions
Jun 12, 2006, 07:51 PM
I'm glad Apple keeps rolling out these AD's. I'm really sick of all my friends buying new PC's running that same old Windows Xp OS. I really want them to switch so I don't have to fix their stupid ass computer because of a driver problem or a virus/spyware.

I don't even care what their ad is about, as long as it gets the message across that Mac's are more reliable than PC's...

dashiel
Jun 12, 2006, 07:52 PM
I'd be interested to see the ROI numbers on these ads. The switch ads seem to not have worked, so I maybe we'll see the stats on these in the next 6 months or so.

that isn't correct. the switch ads have not gained apple market share... well not much and neither will these, but their sales are on pace with if not slightly ahead of the industry at large.

market share is such voodoo science spouted by pundits and analysts who don't understand the context of those numbers. dell, hp, lenova, gateway, etc... all score huge contracts with businesses that contribute to their overall sales and make it difficult for apple to compete in the numbers game.

a better way to look at mac market share is track browser usage. again it's not ideal, but i find it gives a much more accurate look at "real" users and not just corporate drones. safari market share has risen almost 1% in the last year from 2.? to 3.?.

also you have to consider raw numbers. 10 years ago our 2% share was worth about 20 million mac users, today the 2% share is probably closer to 40 million mac users.

--

as for these ads they're aiming at a specific market – the market that doesn't really care about features, they're more interested in style, cool and trendy. we're basically at a point with hardware where the chips are too powerful for all but gamers and professionals, the anti–mac bias still exists, but for the trendy, affluent consumer macs are more appealing than ever.

these commercials are high concept and aimed at the same people who look at infiniti, scion, mini type cars where the car is at best a background element to the concept. it works for the target market... which by the way when you consider that more than half the country makes less than $35,000 a year apple's products really aren't aimed at more than 50% of americans. so their 2% is more like 5-10% of their target market.

jbcaro
Jun 12, 2006, 07:56 PM
The number of people out there with High Definition TV's are growing every day. Apple needs to make HD commercials for national broadcast. They could then effectively show the beauty of the Mac OS. Maybe they could also work into the commercial that the Mac not only displays wide screen HD natively, but that there are also consumer level (stretch) HD video camera's out there that can be edited on the Mac out of the box.

jbcaro

A is jump
Jun 12, 2006, 08:00 PM
I think Apple is just prepping the market with these ads, I imagine (or I would hope) there will be a more extensive advertising push when 10.5 comes out, that will Focus more on the OS. As of now however... I think these ads are pretty decent. I like this second wave of ads better... some of the first ones were just kinda lame.

FF_productions
Jun 12, 2006, 08:14 PM
The number of people out there with High Definition TV's are growing every day. Apple needs to make HD commercials for national broadcast. They could then effectively show the beauty of the Mac OS. Maybe they could also work into the commercial that the Mac not only displays wide screen HD natively, but that there are also consumer level (stretch) HD video camera's out there that can be edited on the Mac out of the box.

jbcaro


No, you just can't show the clarity of a Mac's display on a television. Nobody cares how it looks, they care about what it can do, and if it really is a better alternative than windows. I doubt they'd focus on such a specific topic, remember this is a television commercial, I doubt America wants to hear that you can edit HD video on a Mac, the majority of those people don't even know what HD video is. It has to be straight to the point.

m-dogg
Jun 12, 2006, 08:16 PM
Just saw the box one. I loved the end when he said 'the rest of me is in some other box' - memories from my old gateways/dells and their multitude of giant boxes I guess

nagromme
Jun 12, 2006, 08:40 PM
They could still target the average consumer without badmouthing themselves in the business area.
True, but business purchasers need to be approached in a different way. This will do more to help non-techie consumer sales than it will to convince IT buyers that Macs can't do spreadsheets, etc.--and IT buyers know better anyway.


umm out of the box....no downloads? excuse me?

Seems to be me every new mac I hook up involves software updates as well...
So don't update the OS on the PC, or on the Mac, and do your comparison about what you can do :) The Mac still has iLife and excellent trouble-free support for common hardware that can still choke a PC.


I'd be interested to see the ROI numbers on these ads. The switch ads seem to not have worked, so I maybe we'll see the stats on these in the next 6 months or so.
A campaign to shake people out of mindless habit, in a realm they don't even understand (Windows vs. Mac) is not something that bears huge fruit overnight. (Neither, for that matter, does the iPod Halo effect.) These things will enter people's thinking when they buy their next computer, or maybe the one after that. For some people that time is "now," and I'm sure there will be sales spike now between these ads and the MacBooks. But for most people the time is "later." No need to persuade people to throw out the PC they just bought.

p0intblank
Jun 12, 2006, 08:50 PM
The first set was great but this set... hilarious! I actually laughed out loud at all of them, especially the "Out of the Box" one. It was so awesome how the Mac just jumped out of the box. LOL!

Brilliant, Apple. Very well done! :D

dongmin
Jun 12, 2006, 08:52 PM
Put me down in the "meh" camp.

The 'Out of the Box' ad is pretty good but the other two spend too much time on pointless 'clever' banter (like spending 20 seconds on what 'touche' means) that neither entertains nor informs.

Also, I'm not sure these ads make strong enough associations with Macs. Obviously, all of us here on Macrumors know what they're about. But I'm not sure when an average Joe watches these ads, they go "Aha, computers!" These are good for a light chuckle, but I'm not sure they plant enough of a seed for people to go out and look up more information about Macs.

illegalprelude
Jun 12, 2006, 09:01 PM
http://news.com.com/Sonys+Blu-ray+notebook+arriving+next+week/2100-1041_3-6082914.html?tag=nefd.top


here is the add too. on CNET, they were showing it

jbcaro
Jun 12, 2006, 09:02 PM
No, you just can't show the clarity of a Mac's display on a television. Nobody cares how it looks, they care about what it can do, and if it really is a better alternative than windows. I doubt they'd focus on such a specific topic, remember this is a television commercial, I doubt America wants to hear that you can edit HD video on a Mac, the majority of those people don't even know what HD video is. It has to be straight to the point.

I never said that you could show the 'clarity' on a TV. I said effectively show the beauty of the OS. This encompasses not only how it looks but also show the viewing public how well everything is integrated, how well the apps work together. Granted no broadcast with its mpeg2 or mpeg4 compression is going to show the full resolution that the Mac can display but 4 time the resolution is still 4 times the resolution. It would still be a very pretty picture.

As for the type of ad, my suggestion was just one of several that could be made. People shoot video. People want to view that video. The Mac makes it very easy to edit it so that you can remove that embarrasing bit when uncle george drops his draws at a family picnic. Then you can send a dvd to grandma. Just a thought on one of several that could be done. It can even be done with the current PC guy, Mac guy characters. Need to edit video, PC guy doesn't have firewire input, no decent installed edit app, interface sucks, etc. Mac guy plugs in camera, captures video, edits, burns dvd and mails grandma a copy or just emails her one to watch on her Mac.

I would venture to say that a lot more people than you think know what HD is. I see people buying the sets all the time. My cable company broadcasts 16HD channels. We have 6 OTA HD channels. Anyway, in any marketing arena you have to tell the consumer what they want. You have to show them things that they can do to make them want to buy a Mac. Consumer level video editing is just one of those things.

Just my thoughs,
jbcaro

njmac
Jun 12, 2006, 09:17 PM
A friend of mine has them posted, they are downloadable and good quality.

Go Here (http://web.mac.com/joseveber/iWeb/Apple/New%20Ads%20June%2012.html)

Thanks for the link, those are good quality and load fast :cool: the ones on the apple site don't work as well for me for some reason... I get the audio twice :confused:

I like the ads. I also really like the microsoft ads that show the kids in a classroom dreaming about what they would do someday and future business people looking at nothing and seeing something great. I always wished there would be an apple logo at the end of those commercials instead of microsoft.

sushi
Jun 12, 2006, 09:46 PM
Apple does needs to show the OS in depth, but not on TV. TV has to get people's attention and get them to learn more in venues where that is actually possible: Apple.com, Apple stores, etc.
I think you hit the nail on the head.

Low resolution TV is terrible for showing any detail.

30 second ads have a very limited time to accomplish their goal.

As you said, the Apple stores and Apple.com are the best places to see the details. The commercials aim to get folks interested to the point they visit these places to check out the latest offerings.

The original commercials were good. These new ones seem better.

EricNau
Jun 12, 2006, 09:53 PM
True, but business purchasers need to be approached in a different way. This will do more to help non-techie consumer sales than it will to convince IT buyers that Macs can't do spreadsheets, etc.--and IT buyers know better anyway.
True, but I'm afraid the average business worker might see these ads and think; "I need a computer that's good for both home and business, but it looks like Macs aren't good for spreadsheets, so I'll stick with Windows." ...or something along those lines.

illegalprelude
Jun 12, 2006, 10:09 PM
I might have missed it but its all on Apple's Site now.

http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/

AtHomeBoy_2000
Jun 12, 2006, 10:12 PM
"umm... actually, the rest of me is in some other boxes....."
CLASSIC!!

gmanrique
Jun 12, 2006, 10:23 PM
It is pretty obvious what the target audience is, and for them this adds fit perfectly.


:eek: The way Apple markets itself is to the dumb end user - try advertising more intelligently for a change! Not everything has to be simple to the point of "Mr. Professor's" Learn how to use a Computer E-mercials...

Real Mac people are generally more technology savvy than the average end user and dont need these really generic commercials...

Go back to 1983, much better promotions at that time.

MB Buyer?
Jun 12, 2006, 10:24 PM
fun stuff - how about HL2 on high settings on a mini or MB?:mad:
trial software - umm isnt there a trial version of office?:confused:

nagromme
Jun 12, 2006, 11:01 PM
fun stuff - how about HL2 on high settings on a mini or MB?:mad:
HL2 wasn't one of the examples in the ad, but... how about HL2 on ANY bottom-end computer?


trial software - umm isnt there a trial version of office?:confused:
The example in the ad wasn't that all trial software is bad, but rather that the Mac has full versions of apps that do the "fun" things mentioned. iLife. Now compare to what comes with a Dell :) Limited versions of apps, hoping you will pay for a full version, are often what comes with a PC to do what iLife does (or fail in the attempt).

APPLENEWBIE
Jun 12, 2006, 11:02 PM
I have some background in advertising, having produced some commercials a few years ago for a bank...

Touche: This dialogue is a mess. Will take the average viewer too much thinking to figure it out. What are we selling? Language lessons?

Out of the box: OK. Brings up the idea of simplicity and makes PC look... dumb

work V Home: Best one of the bunch. Makes Mac look more interesting, and friendlier than the other two ads.

EricNau
Jun 12, 2006, 11:04 PM
Touche: This dialogue is a mess. Will take the average viewer too much thinking to figure it out. What are we selling? Language lessons?
I thought it was quite obviously proving that Macs were "smarter" than PCs (and possibly referencing to the built-in dictionary in OS X).

AvSRoCkCO1067
Jun 12, 2006, 11:20 PM
I'm sad that they put them back on Apple's homepage :(

...not only because they're annoying, but because that basically implies no big new cool exciting product announcements tomorrow :(, as they'll want to keep the ads up on the home page for at least a week.

MB Buyer?
Jun 12, 2006, 11:24 PM
HL2 wasn't one of the examples in the ad, but... how about HL2 on ANY bottom-end computer?


MB's are NOT bottom end computers, just bottom of the range mac portables. There are laptops that cost 1/3 the price of a MB with the amount of RAM people here advocate as being "required" because of Rosetta.

If apple want to claim they have the "fun" computers, they should be able to play FPS

APPLENEWBIE
Jun 12, 2006, 11:35 PM
The first 10 seconds of Touche hit the mark. Then it gets derailed in fairly confusing gibberjabber. I'm afraid the PC guy's confusion will mirror a non-sophisticated computer user's confusion...

It is interesting that for a company not supporting windows, we sure are touting our ability to use it. Makes me think that Leopard will be very windows friendly... "you can get a mac and still run all your windows stuff." The ending does not rely on the ability to actually run windows, only that you can run your windows 'stuff.' I'm probably reading to much into this.. but will OS 10.whatever run windows programs?

jackc
Jun 12, 2006, 11:38 PM
True, but I'm afraid the average business worker might see these ads and think; "I need a computer that's good for both home and business, but it looks like Macs aren't good for spreadsheets, so I'll stick with Windows." ...or something along those lines.

That's what I was thinking, and it's not just business workers, college students need to know that you can do spreadsheets as well. Of course, the mentions of Windows and Office are meant to take care of that, but you have to put yourself in the mindset of the unconverted (I can remember my conversion a few years ago). It will take a lot of effort to put these compatibility concerns to rest. The overall impression might be: Macs are great for photos, music, video etc.

treblah
Jun 12, 2006, 11:43 PM
Let the record show that the 'Touché' ad is the best one yet. :D

andrewface
Jun 12, 2006, 11:49 PM
U TOOOOOOL!!!!!!
Warn us before u link a page, this was the soccernet page, and it showed the score for the USA game, I have been at work all day avoiding the score so I could watch it on TIVO without knowing the score!!!

Gah!

btw they are not there...
who cares USA are **** at soccer anyway
today just proved that

BlueRevolution
Jun 13, 2006, 12:13 AM
I'm afraid they've all rather gone downhill. If I wasn't already in on the whole Mac thing I'd take one look at them and go whoa Apple is getting desperate, then trundle off to Dell.

Let me present a script to summarize all the ads to date:

Mac: Hi, I'm a Mac.

PC: And I'm a PC.

Mac: PC, bend over.

PC: OK, I'm used to it. (bends over)

Mac: (spends the remainder of the ad paddling PC)

Shot of iMac/MacBook.

deputy_doofy
Jun 13, 2006, 12:17 AM
Let the record show that the 'Touché' ad is the best one yet. :D
I happen to agree. It may confuse some, but the beginning of the ad is basically a knock-out punch, explaining that it can run both OS 10 and Windows.

isgoed
Jun 13, 2006, 12:31 AM
Two of the new adds have macbooks at the end instead of iMacs now.

kb0iic
Jun 13, 2006, 12:34 AM
Please show me the last time you really saw Windows showcased, or even seen clearly, on any ad for Microsoft, Gateway, Dell, or any other computer.

Hell, please show me a Microsoft Windows ad for that fact.


Found this the other day:

http://www.windowscrash.com/albums/movies/ballmerwindows.wmv

swingerofbirch
Jun 13, 2006, 12:36 AM
I opine:

Better than not advertising
It's predictable sarcasm (yes, like the Office, but not quite as good)
The touche one was completely lost on me..can someone explain it?
The music doesn't scream cool like the iPod ads do (it's more like a lullaby sound)
I like the Mac guy with his hair longer, he's hot
I agree it's very agressive and unusual for apple to advertise beta software as they were so unsure themselves as to what their approach to windows would be not that long ago...i think it confuses the choice of why you would want a mac if it runs windows anyway
And, if you're getting say, a Power Mac G5, your components will come in different boxes..so I don't get their point, or rather I get it, but it can be debated the way they present it

Dahl
Jun 13, 2006, 12:39 AM
The "Work vs. Home" ad is awesome. Super fun.

Macnoviz
Jun 13, 2006, 12:58 AM
work vs. home simply rules !!:D

Gonzo75
Jun 13, 2006, 01:09 AM
I love macs and all but those new TV ads is exactly what I hate about "Apple culture." It's extremely pretentious.

EricNau
Jun 13, 2006, 01:16 AM
I love macs and all but those new TV ads is exactly what I hate about "Apple culture." It's extremely pretentious.
In what way? :confused:

tmornini
Jun 13, 2006, 02:00 AM
The touche one was completely lost on me..can someone explain it?


The ad explains itself, doesn't it? The PC guy misuses the word
"touché" and the Macintosh guy explains it to him, then the PC
guy misuses it again.

I think it's clear that this ad is targeting people who feel they're
more intelligent than most. It's a good technique, because I've
recently read that something like 70+ percent of people will
proclaim themselves to be better than average in just about
any activity that you poll them on. :-)

Shadow
Jun 13, 2006, 02:07 AM
Please show me the last time you really saw Windows showcased, or even seen clearly, on any ad for Microsoft, Gateway, Dell, or any other computer.

Hell, please show me a Microsoft Windows ad for that fact.
In the UK we have/had "A world of devices that run on Windows".

Dahl
Jun 13, 2006, 02:55 AM
The ad explains itself, doesn't it? The PC guy misuses the word
"touché" and the Macintosh guy explains it to him, then the PC
guy misuses it again.

I think it's clear that this ad is targeting people who feel they're
more intelligent than most. It's a good technique, because I've
recently read that something like 70+ percent of people will
proclaim themselves to be better than average in just about
any activity that you poll them on. :-)

Sounds right.
Something similar happens when people vote.
They vote for politics that will help them in the future, not right away.
Which means many people with little $ vote like middle class, because they see themselves there sooner or later.

treblah
Jun 13, 2006, 03:04 AM
In what way? :confused:

Touché :D

bigandy
Jun 13, 2006, 03:08 AM
Touché :D

you're not using it right ;)

Gonzo75
Jun 13, 2006, 03:17 AM
In what way? :confused:

Ok, let's just use the virus ad. The whole thing about "Oh, don't worry. Macs don't get viruses." I mean, seriously, the reason why they don't get viruses is not because its a secure OS (although MUCH more secure than Windows), but mainly due to the fact that some person writing a virus is gonna get a lot more bang for the buck writing a virus to infect PCs as opposed to Macs. What's Apple's market share these days...still not in the double digits?

Like I said, it just that whole "Apple culture" I don't like about some of the Mac users out there. If any of you ever read the comics on Pennyarcade.com, they have this one character who is the token Mac guy. We all know a mac user like that (heck, I'm almost sure of that if you are reading these forums), and to be perfectly honest, I don't want to be associated with them. I'm sorry...I love my Mac but I ain't that guy who thinks I'm better/smarter/more creative than the PC user.

dejo
Jun 13, 2006, 03:26 AM
Ok, let's just use the virus ad. The whole thing about "Oh, don't worry. Macs don't get viruses." I mean, seriously, the reason why they don't get viruses is not because its a secure OS (although MUCH more secure than Windows), but mainly due to the fact that some person writing a virus is gonna get a lot more bang for the buck writing a virus to infect PCs as opposed to Macs. What's Apple's market share these days...still not in the double digits?

I guess people feel that if they keep repeating this "security by obscurity" myth, they believe that everyone will believe it eventually. I hope not. This dead horse can't take no more beatings. Is Apple's lower usage part of the reason there are no Mac viruses? Yeah, to some (minor) extent. But it is not THE reason. It's been said before but I'll say it again: "Mac OS 9 had less of an installed base ('market share' is not the right term here) than Mac OS X and yet had more viruses. Mac OS X still has none." The security model used by Mac OS X is a big part of the reason, but of course, not the only single reason.

johnthevulcan
Jun 13, 2006, 03:30 AM
I am an ignorant pc user, ignorant cause my only experience with an apple product is my 5g iPod, which is a replacement for my 4g ipod which died in a tragic train accident (literally, it fell in the subway tracks while the train was coming and it got demolished) the ads are hilarious, pc users and mac users can get a kick out of these. looking forward to buying a mac book for school this year, much better than lugging a cruddy dell desktop.

Krizoitz
Jun 13, 2006, 03:37 AM
<i>If apple want to claim they have the "fun" computers, they should be able to play FPS</i>

You know, this might shock you MB Buyer, but believe it or not there are literally millions of people out there that don't play FPS's. And honestly, the people I know who DO focus their computer time around FPS's get high end setups to maximize framerate. How many serious FPS players play on laptops with 13.3" screens?!?! The MacBook is NOT geared towards that market so complaining that it can't play modern FPS's well is like complaining about a Volkswagen Golf not being able to race in the Indy 500.

ErikGrim
Jun 13, 2006, 03:47 AM
Ok, let's just use the virus ad. The whole thing about "Oh, don't worry. Macs don't get viruses." I mean, seriously, the reason why they don't get viruses is not because its a secure OS (although MUCH more secure than Windows), but mainly due to the fact that some person writing a virus is gonna get a lot more bang for the buck writing a virus to infect PCs as opposed to Macs. What's Apple's market share these days...still not in the double digits?

You sir, are an ignoramus.

1. Try bringing "security by obscurity" up with a real security expert and get laughed at. That market share has anything to do with viruses is security myth #1.

2. Hmm, it would seem that the makers of penny arcade are now "token (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/03/06) mac (http://www.penny-arcade.com/2006/03/06) users (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/05/09)" themselves. Gasp (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/03/03)!

HiramNL
Jun 13, 2006, 03:49 AM
The three new ones are not as good as the previous ads. And not as truthful, either.

New Macs come with trial software, too (iWork, MS Office), so just like the dreary PC character, the Mac hipster will have to delete those as well. The 'Touché' scene suggests that PC users are stupid, by criticising the way they use one single expression. PC users are not all stupid, and the ones that are, are so because they fail to demand quality software to work with.

I've been using Macs and Macs only for the past 15 years, but if I were a PC user, these ads would not make me want to 'switch'.

Scarlet Fever
Jun 13, 2006, 03:56 AM
these ads, along with the Get A Mac stuff on the site, kinda make me wanna go out an get a Mac... even though i already have 5...

to those who say you cant play HL2 on a mini or a MB, you can't play them any better on a PC with integrated graphics.

MattG
Jun 13, 2006, 05:21 AM
The "Out of the Box" one is cute.

Catt
Jun 13, 2006, 05:30 AM
They're alright I suppose but they are incredibly patronising, and this puts me off right away.

I'm not sure how effective they will actually be in getting people to switch because they don't really give you any real reasons too:

The fun Mac one isn't going to get people to switch because most people have fun on their PCs and its quite clear that PCs can and do do everything mentioned by the Mac guy - it just doesn't chime with most people's experience of using PCs for multimedia (expecially games software).

The useable out of the box point is valid to an extent but it only applies once when you first set up your PC.

The Mac being able to run Windows XP is a good thing and well worth shouting about.

What Apple need to explain is that the Mac can come with iLife applications and be able to do these things simply and easily and I guess this is what they meant to say with the fun point but they didn't actually explain why the Mac is more fun out of the box. They just stated it as fact, consumers what to be convinced not just told.

To my mind these are aimed a little bit to much towards people who already own Macs then to people who already have PCs. They, may, however, grab the attention of people who have neither. But I would be very suprising if these come to the UK market because they come across as being far to arrogant and patronising to me.

dextertangocci
Jun 13, 2006, 06:07 AM
I love them, I think they are so clever and simple!:D :cool:

Multimedia
Jun 13, 2006, 07:03 AM
Haven't read these posts yet. But wanted to note that along with the new "Touché" Ad, there is now a new page on the Apple Site entitled "Apple - Get a Mac - Run Windows" with the headline of "You can even run Windows software." (http://www.apple.com/getamac/windows.html) that targets people who must use Windows. I think this marks the beginning of a new more direct thrust to go after Windows users.

Please let us know if this is not a new page if I am mistaken. :)

Core Trio
Jun 13, 2006, 07:15 AM
MB's are NOT bottom end computers, just bottom of the range mac portables. There are laptops that cost 1/3 the price of a MB with the amount of RAM people here advocate as being "required" because of Rosetta.

If apple want to claim they have the "fun" computers, they should be able to play FPS

Id like to see this laptop that is 1/3 the price of a MB that is anywhere near as powerful (and not to mention beautiful).

If the MB doesnt meet your needs, dont get one, enjoy a MBP.

Gasu E.
Jun 13, 2006, 07:30 AM
:

Real Mac people are generally more technology savvy than the average end user and dont need these really generic commercials...
.


Why would Apple spend millions of dollars advertising to "real Mac people"?

sparkleytone
Jun 13, 2006, 07:32 AM
Its amazing how the whining never ends on this forum. Mac users know they are on the better platform and tend to be loud about it. PC users get defensive about Windows...because they are consistently victimized by Windows. Its classic.

These ads are quirky, and quirky is the new hilarious. Homerun on all three.

1020
Jun 13, 2006, 07:50 AM
Well, these ads are better than the last batch, but nothing to get excited about

dernhelm
Jun 13, 2006, 07:59 AM
Let the record show that the 'Touché' ad is the best one yet. :D

Agreed. Touche is hysterical. But I'm pedantic that way too I guess...

Didn't care as much for the "out of the box one, though.

JHipp
Jun 13, 2006, 08:58 AM
I enjoyed them, thought they were pretty clever.

freeny
Jun 13, 2006, 09:26 AM
You can weigh these adds till the cows come home but at the end of the day their purpose has been achieved.

1-Grab peoples attention.
2-Get the "Mac" word out.
3-Repeat if necessary...

Weather they are "good" or "bad" really doesnt matter. The point is to get people talking about Macs and that they do just fine at.

Remeber, ANY publicity is GOOD publicity.

The "Touche" add seems to be just a rip from the Friends episode where Joey couldnt quite get when to use "finger quotations".

sushi
Jun 13, 2006, 09:28 AM
I'm probably reading to much into this.. but will OS 10.whatever run windows programs?
Don't know.

All we know for a fact is that Leopard will contain Boot Camp. So dual booting will be built into the OS beginning with Leopard.

Now if Leopard could run Windows programs without running Windows that would be sweet. Dual booting is okay, but takes too long to make it a viable alternative if you must run both at the same time per se. An emulator would be much better, or if a future Mac OS would just run Windows apps directly.

swingerofbirch
Jun 13, 2006, 11:17 AM
I still don't get the touche ad.

I have always said touche if someone says a good point that offers them a competitive edge.

I am just guessing that touche means "touch" in French and would be said when a sword touches you to indicate your opponent is winning.

So we have:
Mac: I am a Mac.
PC: And I am a PC.
Mac: And I'm a PC too.
PC: What?
Mac: Now you can run............
PC: Touche.

So isn't the PC just acknowledging the competitive advantage that the Mac runs both Windows and the Mac OS?

Plus, if the Mac is going to be so obnoxious about a word, the PC could say they were both always PC's anyway since PC just means personal computer!

BlueRevolution
Jun 13, 2006, 12:16 PM
In what way? :confused:

The Mac ads don't explain what's good about Macs, they explain why PCs suck. Plain and simple. Here's a good parallel:

http://web.archive.org/web/20040617004359/liberal.ca/wmv/eng-10.mpg

clayj
Jun 13, 2006, 12:27 PM
Erm. Some of these ads tick me off a bit, since they imply things that are not true. The "Out of the Box" ad, for example, implies that Macs don't need driver updates out of the box (reality: there were a TON of updates available when I got my MBP) and that they don't have trial software that needs to be removed (reality: my PB came with Office 2004 Test Drive, and I had to remove it before installing Office 2004).

So while some of the points are valid, some of them are displaying that traditional Apple cockiness... which PC users HATE.

JAT
Jun 13, 2006, 12:28 PM
I still don't get the touche ad.

I have always said touche if someone says a good point that offers them a competitive edge.

That's not what it means. It is used when a point is reversed on a person. Not just because they had a good point.

Ex:
If I tell my IT guy that his new Dell sucks because he had to spend 3 hours deleting AOL and whatnot and re-installing drivers, but he points out I had to delete iWork demo and download that 95MB iWeb update, etc.....then I would say "touché!"

Tortellino
Jun 13, 2006, 12:39 PM
Hell, please show me a Microsoft Windows ad for that fact.

Here we go: http://magicpants.com/view_video.php?url=media/tv_commercials/ballmerwindows.wmv

JAT
Jun 13, 2006, 12:52 PM
So while some of the points are valid, some of them are displaying that traditional Apple cockiness... which PC users HATE.
That's what makes these ads great. Esp Viruses and Out of the Box. If this stuff makes you feel inferior, you need to get some more self-confidence. There is a top 2%, and I guess the other 98% feel it's "patronizing" or "cocky" to know you're in the 2%. Maybe they just need to move up. Say, like moving from Win to Mac.

war
Jun 13, 2006, 12:57 PM
Why don't they do a mac spot with one of the dancing iPod people sitting down at a mac, clicking on a few things, and the show something they made? Have a DVD pop out of the side of the iMac (which is cool looking) and pop it into a television. The iPod already has the "coolness" factor to it and apple really needs to attach that the the mac. They have started the "cool" factor for macs but marry it a bit more to an iPod and that really could help. I have seen strict windows people move to the mac in the past couple of years. Would it really take that much to get more people to think about a move to a mac?

BlueRevolution
Jun 13, 2006, 01:02 PM
I guess I'm the only person that doesn't like the iPod ads much either. They seem to have gotten the job done, but they've been around forever and have lost all their originality/"this could be you".

Time for Apple to hire some new PR people I think.

DavidLeblond
Jun 13, 2006, 01:15 PM
I guess I'm the only person that doesn't like the iPod ads much either. They seem to have gotten the job done, but they've been around forever and have lost all their originality/"this could be you".

Time for Apple to hire some new PR people I think.

I never saw the point of the iPod ads. Who watches those things and goes "wow, I want an iPod! I can be a dancing shadow too!"... Besides everyone HAS iPods already, thats why I'm glad they are making Mac commercials now.

Its kind of like M&M commercials. Why in hell do you need to advertise M&Ms? Seriously, who hasn't had them before?

Mainyehc
Jun 13, 2006, 02:21 PM
The three new ones are not as good as the previous ads. And not as truthful, either.

New Macs come with trial software, too (iWork, MS Office), so just like the dreary PC character, the Mac hipster will have to delete those as well. The 'Touché' scene suggests that PC users are stupid, by criticising the way they use one single expression. PC users are not all stupid, and the ones that are, are so because they fail to demand quality software to work with.

I've been using Macs and Macs only for the past 15 years, but if I were a PC user, these ads would not make me want to 'switch'.

Ex:
If I tell my IT guy that his new Dell sucks because he had to spend 3 hours deleting AOL and whatnot and re-installing drivers, but he points out I had to delete iWork demo and download that 95MB iWeb update, etc.....then I would say "touché!"


The Mac user, though, just has to drag the iWork and Microsoft Office folders to the trash to accomplish what in Windows is sometimes a huge "feat". :D

[edit: and yeah, while I know sometimes you have to search for preference files and whatnot, that's not very hard to do, IMHO. And besides, that's where Spotlight comes in :p ]

stelriah
Jun 13, 2006, 03:46 PM
if apple really wants to reach the windows crowd, why don't they make windows media versions of the ads?

treblah
Jun 13, 2006, 04:25 PM
Erm. Some of these ads tick me off a bit, since they imply things that are not true. The "Out of the Box" ad, for example, implies that Macs don't need driver updates out of the box (reality: there were a TON of updates available when I got my MBP) and that they don't have trial software that needs to be removed (reality: my PB came with Office 2004 Test Drive, and I had to remove it before installing Office 2004).

So while some of the points are valid, some of them are displaying that traditional Apple cockiness... which PC users HATE.

But new Apple customers don't know that yet! You're ruining it for them. ;)

swingerofbirch
Jun 13, 2006, 04:32 PM
That's not what it means. It is used when a point is reversed on a person. Not just because they had a good point.

Ex:
If I tell my IT guy that his new Dell sucks because he had to spend 3 hours deleting AOL and whatnot and re-installing drivers, but he points out I had to delete iWork demo and download that 95MB iWeb update, etc.....then I would say "touché!"

OK. So the PC is announcing he's a PC after the Mac say he's a Mac. And then the Mac say he's a PC too. So if you think of saying I'm a PC as a boast or good thing, then the Mac saying I'm a PC too sort of fits your definition that the point is being reversed, at which point the PC coud appropriately say Touche.

But it's all a bit nebulous. I looked it up on Wikipedia:

"Touché is a French term (literally touched) that is used in fencing to acknowledge a valid hit.

It is also used in conversation/debate to concede a point as true. More commonly it is used sarcastically to indicate that one is unable to argue against another's absurd logic. This use is most often restricted to scripted satirical media such as political cartoons, comic strips and comedy shows."

Like when I was at a group of Democrats after the 2004 election and we were talking about how we believed the Republicans unfairly used gay marriage as a political pawn, I said to the group we should merely say "Touche" and move on with our own tactics instead of staying in this mindset of things being unfair. Saying touche meant to me they had effectively won that round with their rhetoric. It didn't involve reversing a point.

Maybe I am just not as knowledgable about its correct connotative use. I say a lot of things that make people do a double take. ;)

rehashed
Jun 13, 2006, 04:45 PM
... why on earth are they running these ads?
Spreading deliberately misleading information about windows seems a very underhand tactic.
Very un-apple. Very uncool.

rayz
Jun 13, 2006, 04:48 PM
They're alright I suppose but they are incredibly patronising, and this puts me off right away.

To my mind these are aimed a little bit to much towards people who already own Macs then to people who already have PCs.

Well, that's what it looks like to me. The ads seem geared towards make the more fanatical areas of the Mac community feel smug about themselves; rather than getting anyone to switch.

I don't know a WinTel bod who has such low self-esteem that they would switch, simply because someone calls him dumb for using a PC .... :rolleyes:

Advertising computers is hard; but even MS does a better job (at least in the UK). Probably because they focus on what they can do, and not on what the opposition can't do.

Will be interesting to see if Apple runs these ads in the UK; they might run foul of our rather harsh advertising laws if they do ....

gwangung
Jun 13, 2006, 05:02 PM
Advertising computers is hard; but even MS does a better job (at least in the UK). Probably because they focus on what they can do, and not on what the opposition can't do.

Urk. :eek:

One of the goals of advertising is to differentiate yourself from the competitor. Focussing on what competitors can't do (and you can) is one of the best ways of doing that.

And there are similar comment sprinkled throughout this thread.

I think people here are proving that, as advertising experts...they make pretty good Mac users.

j26
Jun 13, 2006, 05:16 PM
You can also watch them here
http://speed.pointroll.com/PointRoll/Media/panels/Apple/118440/applMacs_Panl_300_061206_r05.swf?prVidId=1
http://speed.pointroll.com/PointRoll/Media/panels/Apple/118440/applMacs_Panl_300_061206_r05.swf?prVidId=2
http://speed.pointroll.com/PointRoll/Media/panels/Apple/118440/applMacs_Panl_300_061206_r05.swf?prVidId=3

Note: These links to not appear to work in Safari

Oh the irony!

dubnluvn
Jun 13, 2006, 05:17 PM
These ads are great, but I'm afraid Apple is focusing too much on the everyday home user, and not businesses


Just remember 50% of ALL American businesses are sole proprietorships. If I got a Mac at home I'm gonna use a Mac for my business. In 2005 464,000 people created new businesses every month and averaged 550,000 from 1996-2004 with 0.36 of the adult population starting new businesses each month. Thats a lot of opportunities to get Macs into the business world.

sushi
Jun 13, 2006, 06:29 PM
Just remember 50% of ALL American businesses are sole proprietorships. If I got a Mac at home I'm gonna use a Mac for my business. In 2005 464,000 people created new businesses every month and averaged 550,000 from 1996-2004 with 0.36 of the adult population starting new businesses each month. Thats a lot of opportunities to get Macs into the business world.
True.

But the big sales are in big business, government and DoD.

Especially since most government and DoD agencies have required updates every three years -- or are supposed to at least. This is unlike small businesses that tend to update only when needed.

it5five
Jun 13, 2006, 06:58 PM
Especially since most government and DoD agencies have required updates every three years -- or are supposed to at least. This is unlike small businesses that tend to update only when needed.

hahahhaah, tell that to the IT guys where I work (USPS). We're using ancient machines with about half of the monitors probably about 14-15 years old.

Granted, they still serve their only purpose, which is to show a black and white image of a letter on my screen. (I process mail that the computers can't read. Some people have terrible handwriting).

sushi
Jun 13, 2006, 07:04 PM
hahahhaah, tell that to the IT guys where I work (USPS). We're using ancient machines with about half of the monitors probably about 14-15 years old.

Granted, they still serve their only purpose, which is to show a black and white image of a letter on my screen. (I process mail that the computers can't read. Some people have terrible handwriting).
You answered your own question with USPS! :p :D

Seriously, what governmental organizations are supposed to do and what they do can be two completely different things.

Luckily, I've seen both at work. Feel bad for you.

supremedesigner
Jun 13, 2006, 08:39 PM
I'm a bit disappoint about this. They still haven't provided Closed Caption for us on TV. How will other deaf people understand what they're talkin' about? You know apple does help disabilty people thru computer but why not thru apple AD (TV) and apple iPod too!?!?!

NOT COOL!!!! :mad:

ClimbingTheLog
Jun 13, 2006, 10:01 PM
For some reason Steve-O seems to think that Macs can get by on the cool factor alone.

That reason is probably his sale of a half a billion iPods with ads that don't tell you anything about the iPod.

umm out of the box....no downloads? excuse me? Seems to be me every new mac I hook up involves software updates as well...

Without taking a 2-minute ad to explain, I think their point is you don't have to go surfing around the web and cross-referencing part numbers to download stuff. That's the part that sucks, not the acutal download (unless you have dial-up), then you're SOL.

The 'Out of the Box' ad is pretty good but the other two spend too much time on pointless 'clever' banter (like spending 20 seconds on what 'touche' means) that neither entertains nor informs.

It's about brand identification - in this case for people with superiority complexes - a valid market segment to persue. Not that SJ can relate.

If apple want to claim they have the "fun" computers, they should be able to play FPS

Most non-geeky-teenage-boys don't think FPS's are fun. Except maybe some geeky twenty something boys.

It was so awesome how the Mac just jumped out of the box.

Was that the Pixar Lamp jump? :)

I never saw the point of the iPod ads. Who watches those things and goes "wow, I want an iPod!

An incredible amount of people did.

Its kind of like M&M commercials. Why in hell do you need to advertise M&Ms? Seriously, who hasn't had them before?

R.J. Wrigley was on a plane once and the man seated next to him asked Wrigley why he continued to advertise when his company was already the most successful maker and distributor of chewing gum in the world. "For the same reason that the pilot of this airplane keeps the engines running after we are already in the air," replied Wrigley.

EricNau
Jun 13, 2006, 10:19 PM
Erm. Some of these ads tick me off a bit, since they imply things that are not true. The "Out of the Box" ad, for example, implies that Macs don't need driver updates out of the box (reality: there were a TON of updates available when I got my MBP)...
I just re-installed Windows XP on my PC. It took several DAYS worth of updating and multiple restarts before my system was "up-to-date." Not to mention, the automatic updater was a pain-in-the-*** to find and set. If I recall correctly, my Mac took less than 10 minutes and only one restart.

Plus, you could use the Mac "right out of the box" without installing any of the updates, but with Windows that isn't as true (security risks, hardware problems, annoying reminders, etc.).

BenRoethig
Jun 13, 2006, 11:43 PM
Flame me if you want, but these ads are not only lame, but ineffective. For some reason Steve-O seems to think that Macs can get by on the cool factor alone.

You want to sell the things? Show the OS, show the apps. Until then, you're setting money on fire.

I agree 100%. These ads are childish at best. If anything, they'll hurt the Mac cause since Apple is treating everyone like idiots.

The Mac ads don't explain what's good about Macs, they explain why PCs suck. Plain and simple. Here's a good parallel:

http://web.archive.org/web/20040617004359/liberal.ca/wmv/eng-10.mpg

Apple should be focusing on the positives of the Mac, not running a negative add campaign. You don't want Dell or Microsoft to start running ads detailing Apple's faults and there are some big ones.

sushi
Jun 14, 2006, 12:11 AM
Not to mention, the automatic updater was a pain-in-the-*** to find and set.
Huh. This is fairly easy to do. What am I missing?

rayz
Jun 14, 2006, 12:18 AM
Urk. :eek:

One of the goals of advertising is to differentiate yourself from the competitor. Focussing on what competitors can't do (and you can) is one of the best ways of doing that.

Well that's part of the problem; they failed to differentiate themselves; they just patronised PC users.

'Huh? I can already do music and video on my PC anyway. What's the big deal?'

Viruses? Well, again I'm not sure this is going to work. Microsoft (suprisingly enough) released the figures from their malware detection utility. It tested around 270million PCs, and found some sort of virus on 5 million of them (give or take a few thousand or so!). Now depending on how many folk update their PCs, this points to an infection rate of just over 2%.
So again, I'm not sure the virus angle is going to work because 98% of the PCs out there, are apparently clean (depending on what Microsoft's definition of 'clean' is.... ).
Would explain why I haven't seen a virus-infected PC for years. Since it's nothing that MS has done, I can only guess that the PC user base is a little more clued up than Apple gives them credit for.

Working straight out of the box? Wel, believe it or not, Wintel PCs can do that too (without the need to remove odd bits of packing left over the vents by mistake, or even opening up the casing to apply/remove thermal paste).

I think people here are proving that, as advertising experts...they make pretty good Mac users.

Well, studied marketing in another life, which is why these adverts (from an amateur case study perspective) really stood out as a pretty poor example of the craft. Still, we'll see if they make a difference.

SC68Cal
Jun 14, 2006, 12:20 AM
I love the out of the box one! Very nice AD to watch on my dated computer system. I was surpised to actually be able to play it in HD.

JAT
Jun 14, 2006, 12:45 AM
Well that's part of the problem; they failed to differentiate themselves; they just patronised PC users.

'Huh? I can already do music and video on my PC anyway. What's the big deal?'

Viruses? Well, again I'm not sure this is going to work. Microsoft (suprisingly enough) released the figures from their malware detection utility. It tested around 270million PCs, and found some sort of virus on 5 million of them (give or take a few thousand or so!). Now depending on how many folk update their PCs, this points to an infection rate of just over 2%.
So again, I'm not sure the virus angle is going to work because 98% of the PCs out there, are apparently clean (depending on what Microsoft's definition of 'clean' is.... ).
Would explain why I haven't seen a virus-infected PC for years. Since it's nothing that MS has done, I can only guess that the PC user base is a little more clued up than Apple gives them credit for.

Working straight out of the box? Wel, believe it or not, Wintel PCs can do that too (without the need to remove odd bits of packing left over the vents by mistake, or even opening up the casing to apply/remove thermal paste).



Well, studied marketing in another life, which is why these adverts (from an amateur case study perspective) really stood out as a pretty poor example of the craft. Still, we'll see if they make a difference.
You are clueless. I'm not saying these ads are the best thing ever, but you clearly don't get advertising. Or know anything about Windows. And certainly nothing about Macs.

Go back to a Windows site, that post is just sad. You are blaming Apple for people who can't remove packing from their new computer? Really?

jimgleeson
Jun 14, 2006, 01:29 AM
I think just a couple of years ago I would have been shocked to hear those words uttered, but here it is 2007 and a Mac admits it can also do PC tasks without the performance hit that a PPC has to face when it runs Virtual PC. Some people most likely find this commercial to be an admission that Apple has gone to the darkside whereas I think it is simply inroads for the coming Windows to Mac OS X migration that is inevitible.

The commercial was great and placed during a re-airing of the Show House that apparently since I had nothing better to do I watched it.

By The Way you know your a mac geek when...you slow the Tivo down to watch the Apple ads.

AvSRoCkCO1067
Jun 14, 2006, 01:35 AM
Apple should be focusing on the positives of the Mac, not running a negative add campaign. You don't want Dell or Microsoft to start running ads detailing Apple's faults and there are some big ones.

That'll be funny - the day when Dell and Microsoft are forced to advertise the negatives of Apple to garner more market share.

With 4-5%, I don't think either of these companies have much to worry about - not yet, anyway (hopefully, sometime in the future tho ;) )

sushi
Jun 14, 2006, 01:37 AM
By The Way you know your a mac geek when...you slow the Tivo down to watch the Apple ads.
Definitely! :D

scibry
Jun 14, 2006, 01:49 AM
i watched them. i recognize the mac guy from the (bad) movie The Break Up and the new one Accepted. it's amusing he played Lindsay Lohan's boyfriend. i guess that gives him cool points.

seashellz
Jun 14, 2006, 01:54 AM
I live in Seattle, and am stunned, literally stunned by the number of jazzy iPod billboards in the Seattle and King County area-dozens of them,
And on top of that, Bus Placards everywhere and even WHOLE Metro Transit buses painted up as iPod ads-top/sides/back
(i dont know how they see through the windows, but I hear they can)

Apple could really snatch the ring out of Microsofts nose here if VISTA turns out to be a dud like it apparently is....(and this is Microsoft territory-irony: APPLE has a major store less than a mile from MS HQ in the Bellevue/Redmond area.....)

rayz
Jun 14, 2006, 02:56 AM
You are clueless. I'm not saying these ads are the best thing ever, but you clearly don't get advertising. Or know anything about Windows. And certainly nothing about Macs.

Go back to a Windows site, that post is just sad. You are blaming Apple for people who can't remove packing from their new computer? Really?

I think you've got a bit of foam dribbling out the side of your mouth there ... :rolleyes:

But thanks for making my point; you are EXACTLY the kind of person Apple is targetting with these ads ...

A fanatical response to a criticism of Apple. So sad, and so predictable. Will happily blame anyone else for the ills of world, on anyone else, but Apple MUST be blameless of anything. That would put a dent in your life-validating choice of the Mac platform, wouldn't it? ...

Don't tell me. You bought a PC only last week, and as soon as you opened the box, viruses jumped out of your fridge and infected it immediately .... :rolleyes:

As I said, the ad is really aimed at Mac users (and not even the majority of Mac users; just the fanatical ones, such as your good self.) ... Wintel folk's self-esteem is certainly not tied to their platform, so rubbishing the platform is not going to work. It never has.

The iPod/iTunes campaign is perhaps THE best bit of widget marketing I have ever seen. And they have done it without even acknowledging that the competition exists. Completely focussed on how fab it is to have an iPod. I hope they learn lessons from it and come up with something as impressive for the Mac.

rayz
Jun 14, 2006, 03:06 AM
Definitely! :D


Wow!

I thought folk bought Tivo so they could get past the ads and straight back to the programmes ... :o

mbabauer
Jun 14, 2006, 07:35 AM
These ads pwn! I watch them all the time because they are so damned funny. I hope Apple makes more.

Hmmm, I need to find them on bittorrent or something...

Macnoviz
Jun 14, 2006, 07:40 AM
I live in Seattle, and am stunned, literally stunned by the number of jazzy iPod billboards in the Seattle and King County area-dozens of them,
And on top of that, Bus Placards everywhere and even WHOLE Metro Transit buses painted up as iPod ads-top/sides/back
(i dont know how they see through the windows, but I hear they can)

Apple could really snatch the ring out of Microsofts nose here if VISTA turns out to be a dud like it apparently is....(and this is Microsoft territory-irony: APPLE has a major store less than a mile from MS HQ in the Bellevue/Redmond area.....)

There are good things about Vista, and bad things, but the good things are actually evil:
1. It features a lot of iprovements, most of them were stolen from Mac OS X (they didn't even bother to conceal it very well, come on, aero vs. aqua, gadgets vs. widgets !!??)

2. It looks promising for those people that like to answer dozens op pop-ups (sorry, dialog boxes) before performing simple tasks, and in one review, the reviewer didn't even understand what was said.

On a side note, the reports sent to Microsoft are now supposed to work, too

rayz
Jun 14, 2006, 08:08 AM
1. It features a lot of iprovements,

Was that deliberate? .... :)

mbabauer
Jun 14, 2006, 08:19 AM
But thanks for making my point; you are EXACTLY the kind of person Apple is targetting with these ads ...

A fanatical response to a criticism of Apple. So sad, and so predictable. Will happily blame anyone else for the ills of world, on anyone else, but Apple MUST be blameless of anything. That would put a dent in your life-validating choice of the Mac platform, wouldn't it? ...

I am new to the "mac world", having bought my wife a PowerBook G4 two years ago (she is a photographer), and finally getting a MBP when they first released earlier this year. As a software developer since high school, I have ALWAYS been on Windows until about 3 years ago when I switched to Linux because I was tired of the boring interface. I then switched to Mac because, as any self-respecting geek knows, running a source distribution like Gentoo, or even a package system like RedHat or Debian, takes a LOT of time. The switch to mac gave promise of *nix with commercially available software like Photoshop.

That said, I am no Mac zelot, BUT I can tell you out of the box my MBP did WAY more than my Windows PC did. When you actually USE a Mac with OS X, you find a new world of convenience right at your finger tips. Things like AppleScript and Automator, which I have automated about 80% of my wife's mundain tasks like downloading her pictures off her CFs and resizing them for upload and such. There really is a ton of freebies that come with a Mac. And as a developer, I was excited to see Apple just GIVING AWAY Xcode! Try looking up how much Visual Studio costs, even just the C++ compiler.

There are also some downsides, the most obvious being lack of games on OS X. This is "somewhat" erased since you can run Windows on a mac now, but then you are going backwards in my opinion. I feel as more people switch, this problem will alieviate itself.

Don't tell me. You bought a PC only last week, and as soon as you opened the box, viruses jumped out of your fridge and infected it immediately .... :rolleyes:


My best friend works for Foundstone, and I get the "inside" scoop on security and viruses from him daily. He just made the switch, on his own with not one lick of presure from me, and he is in the same state of euphoria as I.

That said, the main reason there are not viruses for Macs or any *nix has to do with demographics, not security of the OS. If I was devious, and decided to write a virus, who would I rather target? 10 billion Windows users or 1 million mac users? Add to this the general hackers disdain for anything Microsoft, and it obvious *why* there are so many viruses for Windows.


As I said, the ad is really aimed at Mac users (and not even the majority of Mac users; just the fanatical ones, such as your good self.) ... Wintel folk's self-esteem is certainly not tied to their platform, so rubbishing the platform is not going to work. It never has.


The ad is aimed more at my mom and dad than some Mac zelot, IMHO. My dad, who is 54yrs old, calls me up to ask me about this new "Mac thing". My dad is no idiot, he is just computer-illiterate and slightly phobic. The ads are wity, and the humor appeals to any well educated market.

Also, the style has an apeal that demands a second glance. I was at a sports pub the other day, and one of the iPod ads came on, and I swear everyone turned and watched for at least 20 seconds. Don't fault Apple because they hire good PR people that have great attention-grabbing ads, blame Microsoft for not doing so.


The iPod/iTunes campaign is perhaps THE best bit of widget marketing I have ever seen. And they have done it without even acknowledging that the competition exists. Completely focussed on how fab it is to have an iPod. I hope they learn lessons from it and come up with something as impressive for the Mac.

Do you even own an iPod? I actually own both a Creative Zen and several iPods. I bought the Zen first, because I could get a 20gb Zen for less then a 10gb iPod. Let me tell you, the Zen sucks. Everyone I know has bought an iPod because the competition just doesn't have a decent offering.

Just as an end note, I know this has been said time and time again, but I just don't understand why people who do not seem to like Apple come to an Apple-related site to post about how Apple sucks. I mean, do you REALLY have that much time on your hands that you just troll around for arguments? I mean, common sense tells you that you don't paint yourself black and run through a KKK meeting. You are not going to change anyones mind here, and we are not going to change yours.

jaxstate
Jun 14, 2006, 08:25 AM
So let me get this right. PC's aren't good at networking, PC users are dumb, PCs have virii. Then to end it, "Macs are PCs too" (WTF). If apple only knew that the PC users I know think that Mac users are not very bright, so they have to use a Mac. I think this entire "FUN" ******** ads are just silly and annoying.

I don't think this will have any affect on the current trend of how people buy computers.

rayz
Jun 14, 2006, 08:48 AM
I am new to the "mac world", <snip/>having bought my
Also, the style has an apeal that demands a second glance. I was at a sports pub the other day, and one of the iPod ads came on, and I swear everyone turned and watched for at least 20 seconds. Don't fault Apple because they hire good PR people that have great attention-grabbing ads, blame Microsoft for not doing so.
.....


Well, I guess our opinions. Personally, I haven't met a single PC user who has been fooled by this. Then again, I haven't met a PC user with a virus on his machine for quite some time either ....



Do you even own an iPod?


Did you even read the message? Nope. Didn't think so. What really made me laugh here, is that you were so keen to jump and defend Apple at all costs, you didn't even take in what I said about the iPod.

I own two iPods. One 60GB chunky, and a 1GB Shuffle. The 60GB one went wrong, and Apple replaced it without batting an eyelid. The Shuffle has never given me one ounce of trouble. The Shuffle was bought within an hour of seeing the advert. Best UI (not the Shuffle obviously; though for a device with no screen, the UI isn't at all bad), pretty good sound, and the best music service to go with it.


Just as an end note, I know this has been said time and time again, but I just don't understand why people who do not seem to like Apple come to an Apple-related site to post about how Apple sucks. I mean, do you REALLY have that much time on your hands that you just troll around for arguments?


My apologies. As a Mac user I thought I was entitled to an opinion on a Mac forum.

I really had no idea that you came here just to worship .... :rolleyes:

Ok then

"Er ... the Apple ads are fantastic. Every time I see one I just wanna ... oooh ... I just wanna ..Gosh I can't even say what I wanna do!"

There ya go. Feel better?

Now you carry on mate .. worship away; but don't wear your knees out ....

rayz
Jun 14, 2006, 08:59 AM
So let me get this right. PC's aren't good at networking, PC users are dumb, PCs have virii. Then to end it, "Macs are PCs too" (WTF). If apple only knew that the PC users I know think that Mac users are not very bright, so they have to use a Mac. I think this entire "FUN" ******** ads are just silly and annoying.

I don't think this will have any affect on the current trend of how people buy computers.

I'm not sure they were really meant to ...

BenRoethig
Jun 14, 2006, 09:00 AM
Apple could really snatch the ring out of Microsofts nose here if VISTA turns out to be a dud like it apparently is....(and this is Microsoft territory-irony: APPLE has a major store less than a mile from MS HQ in the Bellevue/Redmond area.....)

Only if Apple allows OSX to be run on the kind of hardware they want to buy. Apple (and many Mac users) have a hard time understanding this. As long as the Mac platform caters only to the wants of 5% of the market, Microsoft can keep producing crap and they'll buy it.

rayz
Jun 14, 2006, 09:33 AM
Only if Apple allows OSX to be run on the kind of hardware they want to buy. Apple (and many Mac users) have a hard time understanding this. As long as the Mac platform caters only to the wants of 5% of the market, Microsoft can keep producing crap and they'll buy it.

How would Apple make as much money selling just software, as they do selling hardware? Perhaps they need a better range of hardware ....

jaxstate
Jun 14, 2006, 10:14 AM
This is the only way. If apple haven't gained any ground in the 5 years (guess) XP has been out, while releasing major OS bumps, I don't think they ever can. Not buy doing what they are doing now.
Only if Apple allows OSX to be run on the kind of hardware they want to buy. Apple (and many Mac users) have a hard time understanding this. As long as the Mac platform caters only to the wants of 5% of the market, Microsoft can keep producing crap and they'll buy it.

dubnluvn
Jun 14, 2006, 10:34 AM
Only if Apple allows OSX to be run on the kind of hardware they want to buy. Apple (and many Mac users) have a hard time understanding this. As long as the Mac platform caters only to the wants of 5% of the market, Microsoft can keep producing crap and they'll buy it.


Apple is different. The build their computers such that all the components are completely compatable with each other. Thats one reason why you can't upgrade them, except for the PowerMac (Mac Pro) They design the software to work as flawlessly as possible together, with very tight tolerances. Windows on the other hand is designed (i'm not even sure we can use that term since it represents a deliberate act of form and/or function) with loose tolerances allow various hardware to work, without regard for efficientcy.

So why then would they let their OS that they meticulously designed to work with a set group of hardware to run some joe-shmo built PC that will no doubt adversely affect the performance of the OS. Kinda like putting a mercedes body on a Hyundai chassis. It'll look good parked but won't be nearly the experience when you actually drive it.

Macnoviz
Jun 14, 2006, 11:15 AM
Was that deliberate? .... :)

No, but it will be corrected with the next service pack...
coming in a few months,... I mean this year,... I mean somewhere in the future

swingerofbirch
Jun 14, 2006, 11:29 AM
Apple is having some trouble; their Get a Mac site seems to be a work in progress. Yesterday the section on Windows said:

"Plus, since Apple designs and tests the operating system and new hardware at the same time, the company can optimize software and hardware to work well together. That means on such well-designed hardware, that MacBook Pro runs even some Windows software faster than PCs themselves, according to third party results. (They’re able to get these results with beta software from the next version of Mac OS X, Leopard. Apple Computer does not sell or support Microsoft Windows.)"

This made absolutely no consequential sense. Apple is saying the Mac Book Pro runs fast because they manufacture OS X specifically for the hardware, and because of this Windows apps run faster!? Huh?

Today they deleted this paragraph to the website.

They still have:

As fast as lightning, according to some industry pundits. Listen to what Computerworld’s Scot Finnie has to say. “Windows XP,” he exclaims, “runs extremely fast on the Mac with very few quirks or issues — so fast and well, in fact, that the notion of having your cake and eating it too comes to mind.”

VERY FEW QUIRKS OR ISSUES! This isn't great advertising. I wish Apple would go back to that certain elegance they had in their understated marketing.

gloss
Jun 14, 2006, 11:45 AM
Let me present a script to summarize all the ads to date:

Mac: Hi, I'm a Mac.

PC: And I'm a PC.

Mac: PC, bend over.

PC: OK, I'm used to it. (bends over)

Mac: (spends the remainder of the ad paddling PC)

Shot of iMac/MacBook.

They really should make an online-only ad with this script. I would buy 10 more laptops.

crossed-over
Jun 14, 2006, 01:59 PM
The PC guy looks like Bill Gates. On purpose?? Either way... i crack up every time I see one of these on TV.

JAT
Jun 14, 2006, 02:13 PM
I really had no idea that you came here just to worship .... :rolleyes:

You are still clueless. Anytime a person says something good about Apple, they are rolling around on the floor in their own spittle, right? Life is less black and white than you want, get a grip. I voted Meh on this thread.

You think these are aimed at Mac users? Fanatic Mac users, only? That's just stupid. Fanatic Mac users think they are cute and talk about them on the internet, but it won't change how they buy computers, they already buy Macs. Why would any company throw millions in advertising at their own fanatics? What a waste of money that would be.

They are aimed at average computer users who might want to upgrade to something better. And that's why they are pretentious, to convince people that the Mac is better. Whether it works depends on the person.

I may actually agree with you that an ad series like the iPod series could be more effective, not sure yet. The iPod was not in the same situation, so the same format may not be appropriate for Macs. Cute little MP3 players were not the popular item they are now, it didn't have mountains to climb like Mac does with its 3% market share of one of the largest consumer product markets in the world.

Windows virus free....I'm still trying to parse that one. No idea how to respond to someone who thinks Windows doesn't have a virus problem. What else, Africa doesn't have a food shortage problem?

zephead
Jun 14, 2006, 02:15 PM
Then again, I haven't met a PC user with a virus on his machine for quite some time either ....
That's because the PC user doesn't know he's infected with a virus. He just takes the unusual sluggishness as a normal part of using a computer. :rolleyes:

mbabauer
Jun 14, 2006, 04:33 PM
You are still clueless. Anytime a person says something good about Apple, they are rolling around on the floor in their own spittle, right? Life is less black and white than you want, get a grip.

Here here...

You think these are aimed at Mac users? Fanatic Mac users, only? That's just stupid. Fanatic Mac users think they are cute and talk about them on the internet, but it won't change how they buy computers, they already buy Macs. Why would any company throw millions in advertising at their own fanatics? What a waste of money that would be.

They are aimed at average computer users who might want to upgrade to something better. And that's why they are pretentious, to convince people that the Mac is better. Whether it works depends on the person.

That was exactly my point, although not stated as clear. My dad actually DID call me and ask me about buying a Mac. He has an older Dell. My response, it depends on what you want to do with it, really. The lines are a little more blurred now you can run Windows on a Mac, but its still a valid response. I let him use my MBP for the weekend, and he seems like he wants to buy one now. The funny thing, he was up and running on OS X with very little help. This from a man that still calles 3 1/2" diskettes "Hard Drives".


Windows virus free....I'm still trying to parse that one. No idea how to respond to someone who thinks Windows doesn't have a virus problem. What else, Africa doesn't have a food shortage problem?
Again, totally agree. I work for a VERY large corporation that has 180k devices. My job is to develop web tools using Tivoli and such to allow management of those devices. I could not tell you how many patches and what-not we distribute through these systems in a given night...its a lot. Part of this is due to crappy code from Microsoft, but part is due to the large target sign Microsoft wears.

mbabauer
Jun 14, 2006, 04:34 PM
Did you even read the message? Nope. Didn't think so. What really made me laugh here, is that you were so keen to jump and defend Apple at all costs, you didn't even take in what I said about the iPod.

I dont believe you said anything about the iPod other than the commercial for the iPod was "THE best bit of widget marketing I have ever seen".


My apologies. As a Mac user I thought I was entitled to an opinion on a Mac forum.

Again, you never said you were a mac user. I read a lot of posts from PC users spitting fire and bremstone out their collective a$$es over the slightest hint that someone could actually produce a product better than Dell/Microsoft.


I really had no idea that you came here just to worship .... :rolleyes:

When did I ever say ANYTHING about worshiping a Mac? In fact, it YOU read what I said, you would see I clearly stated the only reason there are less Viruses for Mac and most *nix based OSes was due to demographics, not a better OS.

I do feel, however, OS X is a superior product of Windows. I have seen Vista, and even run it at work for testing, and I am not impressed. As a developer, I take notice of the suttelties of the OS and how easy it is to write software for it. Excuse me for having an opinion about it and expressing it.


Ok then

"Er ... the Apple ads are fantastic. Every time I see one I just wanna ... oooh ... I just wanna ..Gosh I can't even say what I wanna do!"

There ya go. Feel better?

Now you carry on mate .. worship away; but don't wear your knees out ....
This is what I am talking about. I thought the new commercials were friggin hillarious. It appeals to my wanting to hate "The Man", in this case Bill Gates and Microsoft. When I saw them, I had tears in my eyes. I also laughed my a$$ off at those Budweiser "Real Men of Genius" commercials...doesn't mean I like bud, I just thought the commercial was good.

You mistaken a comment about how someone likes or doesn't like a commercial to mean we are collectively bowing to Steve and his marry possy. Where in fact, I have NEVER bought ANYTHING because of a commercial. Before I bought my Mac, I researched, I touched, I played with it. I even went to one of those free courses on general use. Someone who drops $2k+ on ANYTHING without finding out its the right choice is either stupid or has way more money than they know what to do with.

Bottom line is, Apple is just a company. I never said I worshiped them, all I said was I like where they are going right now. This is just my opinion, so please don't murder my first born or start foaming at the mouth shouting profanities about tying my ankles to my schrotem, but I feel Microsoft has REALLY lost their way. They are playing catch-up. There is no real innovation anymore, just meager attempts to innovate. Thats not to say that Apple wont do the same thing.

BenRoethig
Jun 14, 2006, 06:07 PM
Apple is different. The build their computers such that all the components are completely compatable with each other. Thats one reason why you can't upgrade them, except for the PowerMac (Mac Pro) They design the software to work as flawlessly as possible together, with very tight tolerances. Windows on the other hand is designed (i'm not even sure we can use that term since it represents a deliberate act of form and/or function) with loose tolerances allow various hardware to work, without regard for efficientcy.

So why then would they let their OS that they meticulously designed to work with a set group of hardware to run some joe-shmo built PC that will no doubt adversely affect the performance of the OS. Kinda like putting a mercedes body on a Hyundai chassis. It'll look good parked but won't be nearly the experience when you actually drive it.

I've blown that theory out of the water with my own user experiences.
Mac vs current PC
945 motherboard: Same except for firmware chip
Radeon x1600: Same except for firmware chip.
Hard and optical drives: both have extensive support for most drives. Changing them doesn't make the Mac wig-out.
Bluetooth and Wireless: Same as used on the PC

That leaves two things different: The OS and the case. The case doesn't need drivers. You're working off a set of stereotypes that were hatched during the OS9 days.

BenRoethig
Jun 14, 2006, 06:11 PM
How would Apple make as much money selling just software, as they do selling hardware? Perhaps they need a better range of hardware ....

They wouldn't have to. The 5% of the market who buys Apple will buy Apple. The other 95% won't be buying a Mac regardless, but may choose OSX on their HP, Dell, or other instead of windows. You're not taking a hardware sale away from Apple, your taking a software sale away from Microsoft.

rayz
Jun 15, 2006, 12:29 AM
You are still clueless. Anytime a person says something good about Apple, they are rolling around on the floor in their own spittle, right? Life is less black and white than you want, get a grip. I voted Meh on this thread.

Nope. Any time anyone jumps to their defence without actually reading the post.


You think these are aimed at Mac users? Fanatic Mac users, only? That's just stupid. Fanatic Mac users think they are cute and talk about them on the internet, but it won't change how they buy computers, they already buy Macs. Why would any company throw millions in advertising at their own fanatics? What a waste of money that would be.


Not really. Lots of companies do this to re-enforce their markets. Apple has been doing this for years.


They are aimed at average computer users who might want to upgrade to something better. And that's why they are pretentious, to convince people that the Mac is better. Whether it works depends on the person.


In general, you don't gain customers by calling them stupid. Have you seen any PC knock the Macs for overheating, problems with the thermal paste or discoloration of the casing? No because negative advertising just makes you look desperate.


I may actually agree with you that an ad series like the iPod series could be more effective, not sure yet. The iPod was not in the same situation, so the same format may not be appropriate for Macs.


Just show some guy filming a wedding, then taking the results back on his Mac. His elderly folks getting the DVD, which they slot into their DVD player and run through some fab menus to pick out the scenes they like. They can even race back to their own Mac and log onto his iWeb site, and join a load of folks discussing stuff on his blog. Throw in a bit of video conferencing with the newly-weds. Show the whole Apple thing!


Cute little MP3 players were not the popular item they are now, it didn't have mountains to climb like Mac does with its 3% market share of one of the largest consumer product markets in the world.


Why is it that no-one actually understands marketshare? How many times does this need to be hammered in? The marketshare can stay at 2% for the next ten years, it makes no difference as long as Apple can sell more machines year over year. The size of the user base is WAY MORE IMPORTANT THAN MARKETSHARE. They are not the same thing.


Windows virus free....I'm still trying to parse that one. No idea how to respond to someone who thinks Windows doesn't have a virus problem. What else, Africa doesn't have a food shortage problem?

Never said it didn't have a virus problem. The MS sniffers have found viruses on 5million out of 270million machines, which is a hell of a lot of PCs. But that's about a 2% infection rate. So 98% of machines are clean? This would explain why I don't see viruses on PCs anymore. Since SP2, MS has started up the Firewall by default. This has helped, but mainly, this is the result of users being becoming more clued up.
Folk just don't open emailed files called 'goodporn.exe' anymore; which is why the 'social engineering' type attacks are on the up.

Anyway, here's a link for you to read and disbelieve ... ;)

MS Malware Stats (The Register UK) (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/06/13/ms_malware_stats/)

Interestingly, of the 2% of machines with infections, 60% of those have really serious problems; could indicate a particular usage pattern; who knows.

rayz
Jun 15, 2006, 04:46 AM
That's because the PC user doesn't know he's infected with a virus. He just takes the unusual sluggishness as a normal part of using a computer. :rolleyes:

Actually, no. .. :rolleyes:

The MS tool is downloaded and run automatically every so often (usually during an update). It scans automatically; so it doesn't make a difference whether the user is aware of the infection or not.

rayz
Jun 15, 2006, 05:04 AM
They wouldn't have to. The 5% of the market who buys Apple will buy Apple. The other 95% won't be buying a Mac regardless, but may choose OSX on their HP, Dell, or other instead of windows. You're not taking a hardware sale away from Apple, your taking a software sale away from Microsoft.

I'm not talking about sales; I'm talking about revenuie and profit.

How will Apple replace the lost revenue by allowing OSX to run on every machine?

Now that no-one is running buying their hardware, where does the money come from?

rayz
Jun 15, 2006, 06:44 AM
I dont believe you said anything about the iPod other than the commercial for the iPod was "THE best bit of widget marketing I have ever seen".

What does that matter? I said it was a fantastic advertising campaign. The fact that I own two iPods is irrelevant, unless iPod ownership is required for admission to the temple. Hell, in that case I should be a bishop or something given the thousands I've dropped on Apple gear over the past ten years.


Again, you never said you were a mac user.

And I say again. What has that got to do with you? I'm a Mac user and a Windows user. Mac at home and on the road, Windows at work (and off the road). I've kept PC-centric software houses supporting Macs, during the dark times, so I know what PC-blinkered managers are thinking when they see Macs.

I read a lot of posts from PC users spitting fire and bremstone out their collective a$$es over the slightest hint that someone could actually produce a product better than Dell/Microsoft.

And how does that differ from Mac users spitting fire and brimstone out their collective a$$es over the slightest hint that someone could actually produce a product better than Apple?


When did I ever say ANYTHING about worshiping a Mac? In fact, it YOU read what I said, you would see I clearly stated the only reason there are less Viruses for Mac and most *nix based OSes was due to demographics, not a better OS.


And I didn't say it wasn't a better OS. But the reason that Windows is such a viruses is that.
1/. It is more widely used
2/. There a re far more people who have detailed knowledge of Windows internals, than there are that know about the internals of MacOSX
3/. Generally speaking, folk hate Microsoft ... :-)

If you're going to write a piece of code to lift bank details from a machine, which platform are you going to target? Let me help you; the one that will give you the biggest return.

So the number of viruses on Windows really has nothing to do with OSX superiority, or Windows inferiority. It's simply a matter of numbers.


I do feel, however, OS X is a superior product of Windows.


Well, good for you ... :)

I have seen Vista, and even run it at work for testing, and I am not impressed. As a developer, I take notice of the suttelties of the OS and how easy it is to write software for it. Excuse me for having an opinion about it and expressing it.


Well I'm a developer too. And I find the Windows an excellent development platform with a huge range of tools and options. And I don't feel the need to excuse myself for having that opinion.


This is what I am talking about. I thought the new commercials were friggin hillarious. It appeals to my wanting to hate "The Man", in this case Bill Gates and Microsoft.

Friend, you've just made my point. Thank you. The commercial is aimed at folk like you.

I feel Microsoft has REALLY lost their way. They are playing catch-up. There is no real innovation anymore, just meager attempts to innovate. Thats not to say that Apple wont do the same thing.

Well, I think the same can be said for MS and Apple. What has Apple given us that is innovative in the past few years or so?

Dashboard? Seen it.
Trainers that watch your mileage? Strange idea that Microsoft did first and abandoned.
Magsafe? Seen it on kettles.

On the MS side?
.NET? Seen Java
SideShow? Nice idea? Not sure if it's useful though

Haven't seen anything really new since iTunes (and remember, I'm speaking from a non-fanatical point of view).

These days. Most ideas are rehashes. What makes the difference is how well they're implemented.

ErikGrim
Jun 15, 2006, 08:04 AM
Just show some guy filming a wedding, then taking the results back on his Mac. His elderly folks getting the DVD, which they slot into their DVD player and run through some fab menus to pick out the scenes they like.What, like this one (http://www.theapplecollection.com/Collection/AppleMovies/mov/idvd_elope_480.html)? :cool:

ErikGrim
Jun 15, 2006, 08:11 AM
Haven't we already covered this? Security through obscurity does NOT exist. For the sake of not making yourself look stupid, please do some research.

Numbers have nothing to do with it. Seriously. Virus writers look for attention. A vast majority of virus writers are script kids, who probably hate Apple as much as Microsoft. Who would be the most famous virus writer of them all? The one who writes the FIRST successful selfpropagating virus for a platform that prides itself on being virus FREE.

Education isn't such a bad thing. For one you become less likely to parroting ludicrous myths.

BenRoethig
Jun 15, 2006, 09:47 AM
I'm not talking about sales; I'm talking about revenuie and profit.

How will Apple replace the lost revenue by allowing OSX to run on every machine?

Now that no-one is running buying their hardware, where does the money come from?

Mac users would still buy the hardware. They wouldn't be losing hardware revenue, they'd be gaining software revenue on top of what they already have. The cover sometimes makes the book, and Apple's covers have a level of refinement you cannot find elsewhere.

Sirin
Jun 15, 2006, 02:21 PM
Flame me if you want, but these ads are not only lame, but ineffective. For some reason Steve-O seems to think that Macs can get by on the cool factor alone.

You want to sell the things? Show the OS, show the apps. Until then, you're setting money on fire.

You can tell him that. stevejobs@apple.com ;)

zephead
Jun 15, 2006, 08:24 PM
The MS tool is downloaded and run automatically every so often (usually during an update). It scans automatically; so it doesn't make a difference whether the user is aware of the infection or not.

Coincidentally, that update just appeared on my automatic updates. Let's go see its description.

After the download, this tool runs once to check your computer for infection by specific, prevalent malicious software (including Blaster, Sasser, and Mydoom) and helps to remove any infection found.
<snip>
This tool is not a replacement for an anti-virus product. To help protect your computer, you should use an anti-virus product.

Senater Cache
Jun 15, 2006, 10:49 PM
The PC guy looks like Bill Gates. On purpose?? Either way... i crack up every time I see one of these on TV.
I get really angry when I see these ads!
My PowerMac G5 (cost me over 2grand) is sluggish and freezes once a day on avg. POS.
Adobe aps run much faster on my custom built $1200 PC (virus free thank you...and I do KNOW).
Im frustrated...not that I hat emac, I just get pissed when I see the ad and then have to go to work to have my mac ******* up like that...idiots @ 800-apple told me to repair permissions lol.

That's because the PC user doesn't know he's infected with a virus. He just takes the unusual sluggishness as a normal part of using a computer. :rolleyes:

In my experience (exception quad G5) OSX runs kinda slow and the GUI is very sluggish. Im talking multiple macs (notebooks, desktops, imacs).

my winXP is pretty damn responsive and windows appear in an instant.

idk exactly what your getting at but it sounds like your are a fanboy / tool with little experience and a big mouth

although i will say/agree that the average pc user is novice to the max.
but, the average mac user is as novice on top of believing he/she is invulnerable(idiocy) and will sanction everything jobs talks about as godlike.

coosamatt
Jun 16, 2006, 10:33 AM
Does anyone know the name of that song used in the ad's?

Hugh
Jun 17, 2006, 05:28 PM
I feel like dedicating a commerical to BETA software (boot camp) is a bad idea.


I thought this was strange too conserding that they state that they don't support Boot Camp Beta as of it. Yet they mention it in an add.

Go figure.

Hugh

Senater Cache
Jun 17, 2006, 10:23 PM
just a thought ands I have null experience with bootcamp: but maybe they meant you can install both softwares in seperate partitions?
Or maybe they meant you can isntall either - or?

how exactly does bootcamp work? is it online-switching like with virtualization?

Hugh
Jun 18, 2006, 10:49 PM
just a thought ands I have null experience with bootcamp: but maybe they meant you can install both softwares in seperate partitions?
Or maybe they meant you can isntall either - or?

how exactly does bootcamp work? is it online-switching like with virtualization?

No, Boot camp is that you partition out the hard drive. One for Mac OS X the other for Windows XP. You will duoboot into the OS that you wasnt.

Here you can read more here: http://www.apple.com/getamac/windows.html

Hugh

rayz
Jun 19, 2006, 04:44 AM
Mac users would still buy the hardware. They wouldn't be losing hardware revenue, they'd be gaining software revenue on top of what they already have. The cover sometimes makes the book, and Apple's covers have a level of refinement you cannot find elsewhere.

That kind of depends on how many Mac users actually believe that. Does Apple really make better hardware? As far as I can tell, they don't. They buy the machines in from China and sell them on; same as everybody else. The machines are no better or no worse than Asus, or Sony for example. Now are there enough Mac users who care so much about the 'look' of their machine, that they will not buy a faster, cheaper unit and just install OSX on that?

The fact that you think it would ge a good idea, leads me to think that it is something you would consider if the option was open to you.

rayz
Jun 19, 2006, 05:17 AM
Coincidentally, that update just appeared on my automatic updates. Let's go see its description.

Yep. You are absolutely correct.

It is NOT a virus scanner, and was never meant to be. It is an investigation tool designed to see what MS is up against. It tests a few thousand virus families and their derivatives (and most virueses are derived from a few well-known base sets), and will also detect worms, rootkits etc. on more or less the same order. It can also seek files it suspects are viruses, and then ask the user if they can be submitted to MS for further investigation.

The reason MS recommend that you use another virus scanner is because it does not have a real-time scanning capabilities. It can only find viruses that are already on your system (which means the damage may have already been done); it cannot examine files as they arrive attached to email messages etc.

No, the purpose of this bit of code, is to ascertain the threat level and threat types. It doesn't need to detect every virus in existence to do that. If it finds that 2% of users are infected with the most prevelant viruses and worms, then that gives them an accurate assessment of the threat. Two percent of scanned PCs have a virus, so they'll make the assumption that 2% of unscanned PCs are also infected. Less prevelant viruses will have a lower level of infection, so the answer will remain roughly round about 2%. Sounds a bit low, but falls in line with the number of virus infections I've actually seen, as opposed to the number I've actually heard about from MacOSX and Linux users ..... :)

Having detected the infection, the tool WILL attempt to remove it. This is more of a courtesy than a function; it would be extremely rude to detect a virus, tell Microsoft, then just leave it there .... :-/

The big omission from the figures, are Office viruses. I don't believe that the tool will detect those. These seem to be a lot less prevalent than they used to be. I personally think they should be included still, simply because you can't stop folk from pressing 'Yes' when they should really be pressing 'Cancel'.

Anyway, as I was saying; this is not a virus scanner. If it was, then MS would open themselves up to all kinds of legal trouble from the likes of McAfee and Symantec.

panda
Jun 19, 2006, 05:24 AM
interesting psychology going on here... or so it seems to me.

apple has been the underdog for so long (and still is in terms of market share) and perhaps that has been part of the appeal factor.

now apple is blowing its own horn about being so much better than 'mr pc'... so much so, that i'm begining to feel sorry for the pc guy...

'mr pc' is begining to look 'cute' in contrast to the newfound arrogance of the 'mac' guy (especially in the "i'm a pc too" add).

anyone else feeling that as well? :rolleyes:

rayz
Jun 19, 2006, 05:50 AM
Haven't we already covered this? Security through obscurity does NOT exist. For the sake of not making yourself look stupid, please do some research.

I could say the same about you .... :)

Like everyone else, Apple has to patch their OS at regular intervals for vulnerabilites they find. That means the OS has vulnerabilites. Some are serious, some are not, and some (like the early Dashboard release) are downright stupid.


Numbers have nothing to do with it. Seriously. Virus writers look for attention. A vast majority of virus writers are script kids, who probably hate Apple as much as Microsoft. Who would be the most famous virus writer of them all? The one who writes the FIRST successful selfpropagating virus for a platform that prides itself on being virus FREE.


The market share is part of it, sure; but not entirely.

If folk ask I usually say the problem is not that Apple has 'security through obscurity'; more that MS has 'insecurity through familiarity and stupidity'.

You are wrong if you think script kiddies hate Apple more than MS. MS is hated enough to make the virus problem ten times bigger than it should be. Apple and Linux are the pretty much the darlings of the internet at the moment.

Anyway, script kiddies aren't really the problem anymore. Folk have learned not to run macros from suspect word documents. If you're daft enough to do it, then there's not much anyone can do about it. Nope, the real problem are the professionals. The folk writing viruses and key loggers for hacking passwords, stealing information and locking files for ransom.

These attacks will target the platform where they are likely to find the most commercial information. Quicken files, MSMoney files, small business accounts. This platform has the added advantage of being the world's most popular development platform, which means there is an unfortunate wealth of expertise when it comes to the system internals; hence vulnerabilities are easier to find because there are a lot more people avaialble with the skills to look for them.

Stupidity; Ms has made some gaffs along the way, which it is only getting round to fixing now. The fact that everyone seems to run as an Admin user should have been tackled years ago.
Whether they can do it or not, remains to be seen. They are definitely pulling out all the stops. Why did they release Vista to the general public? Because they want hackers to go at it, and go at it hard. They want the very best crackers all over it like a rabid dog.

Education isn't such a bad thing. For one you become less likely to parroting ludicrous myths.

Oh dear, did someone poke you in the RDF? ....

Well, you could be right, but since the Mac has an installed base of around 3.5% as opposed to 90%, we may never know for sure.

rayz
Jun 19, 2006, 06:24 AM
I get really angry when I see these ads!
My PowerMac G5 (cost me over 2grand) is sluggish and freezes once a day on avg. POS.

A freeze a day sounds excessive.

Have you had the hardware checked? I've heard about similar problems with low quality memory.

BenRoethig
Jun 19, 2006, 07:53 AM
That kind of depends on how many Mac users actually believe that. Does Apple really make better hardware? As far as I can tell, they don't. They buy the machines in from China and sell them on; same as everybody else. The machines are no better or no worse than Asus, or Sony for example. Now are there enough Mac users who care so much about the 'look' of their machine, that they will not buy a faster, cheaper unit and just install OSX on that?

The fact that you think it would ge a good idea, leads me to think that it is something you would consider if the option was open to you.

It's open to me because Apple doesn't want to take my business nor that of anyone in the prosumer market. We're not cool enough for them and I'm not into the computer maker telling me what I want and how I'm going to use it. I use my iBook for most daily tasks, but my desktop is running windows. Not because I love windows by anymeans, but because you cannot get a machine with at lteast two full size optical drives, two hard drives, an x16 PCI-express slot, 3 PCI(-e x1) slots, and a card reader on this platfom for under two grand and without an army of external devices and wall warts. Apple doesn't want me, but I have no option to go elsewhere while still using OSX.

rayz
Jun 19, 2006, 08:43 AM
It's open to me because Apple doesn't want to take my business nor that of anyone in the prosumer market. We're not cool enough for them and I'm not into the computer maker telling me what I want and how I'm going to use it. I use my iBook for most daily tasks, but my desktop is running windows. Not because I love windows by anymeans, but because you cannot get a machine with at lteast two full size optical drives, two hard drives, an x16 PCI-express slot, 3 PCI(-e x1) slots, and a card reader on this platfom for under two grand and without an army of external devices and wall warts. Apple doesn't want me, but I have no option to go elsewhere while still using OSX.

Right. Point taken.

I guess I was in the same boat. I'm looking for a subnote book, but I'm happy with Windows or MacOSX, so I'll just buy the form factor that suits me best (probably one of the new Sony line).

I see what you mean though, but as I said, what Apple needs to do is expand the range a bit. If they won't, then yep .... I see your point now.

Leondunkleyc
Jun 19, 2006, 10:46 AM
.

Senater Cache
Jun 19, 2006, 08:46 PM
A freeze a day sounds excessive.

Have you had the hardware checked? I've heard about similar problems with low quality memory.

it does doesnt it.
ran 7hrs overnight hardware test @ apple store...nothing.

in reality, its not how excessive my powerCrack restarts/frezes, its the fact that it does at all, how does the add go?

PC: hi im a p......o had to restart there, you know how it is.
mac: no, actually i dont (with that supid face he makes...lik wtf is he talking about restarts)

i hate those commercials. they truly are targeted at idiots.

my pc hasnt crashed or restarted in over a year

rayz
Jun 20, 2006, 03:36 AM
it does doesnt it.
ran 7hrs overnight hardware test @ apple store...nothing.

Mmmm ...

That is very odd. I still believe that you are looking at some kind of hardware fault, rather than an OS problem. The OS is very susceptible to problem hardware.

in reality, its not how excessive my powerCrack restarts/frezes, its the fact that it does at all, how does the add go?

Don't get excited about the ad; it doesn't have any bearing on any reality of seen in the past three years.

my pc hasnt crashed or restarted in over a year

Same here. An AMD box running three application servers, a wodge of development tools, office applications and an occasional game. Not a hiccup in years.

But then I have a Powerbook at the moment, which certainly doesn't need restarting once a day either .... :confused:

jemeinc
Jun 20, 2006, 09:11 AM
Flame me if you want, but these ads are not only lame, but ineffective. For some reason Steve-O seems to think that Macs can get by on the cool factor alone.

You want to sell the things? Show the OS, show the apps. Until then, you're setting money on fire.

I think there's some logic to that opinion- but these ads do seem to be creating a buzz... A lot of my PC using friends have commented on them to me... Obviously they're commenting to me because they know I'm a Mac user, but these aren't the usual comments- they seem to be more curious about restarting, and viruses, and running windows on Macs... That's just something I noticed as a direct result of the ads amongst the few people I know...

QuarterSwede
Jun 20, 2006, 12:32 PM
Well, the ads have certainly done there job if people are talking about them.

celebrian23
Jun 20, 2006, 12:56 PM
I tink the ads are stupid. I can't help it- they do nothing for me. I saw a cool computer ad for a pc featuring shaun white and it was so cool- it was basically this compputer can do everything and more. It was a really innovative approach.

And if the mac guy should be young, can't he at least be strikingly attractive?

JackSYi
Jun 20, 2006, 12:58 PM
These ads are hilarious.

BenRoethig
Jun 20, 2006, 01:17 PM
Well, the ads have certainly done there job if people are talking about them.

That all depends on how they're talked about.

Senater Cache
Jun 20, 2006, 05:46 PM
Mmmm ...

That is very odd. I still believe that you are looking at some kind of hardware fault, rather than an OS problem. The OS is very susceptible to problem hardware.



Don't get excited about the ad; it doesn't have any bearing on any reality of seen in the past three years.



Same here. An AMD box running three application servers, a wodge of development tools, office applications and an occasional game. Not a hiccup in years.

But then I have a Powerbook at the moment, which certainly doesn't need restarting once a day either .... :confused:


I have since reinstalled (clean) OSX and have had no restarts as of yet...however my usage of this machine has gone from daily to once a month.

still, there is no excuse for this powermac being absolutely annihilated in PS and Illustrator performance by my 2-3 year olf athlonXP system with half the ram....wierd. Dont even get started on games...

ChrisA
Jun 22, 2006, 02:31 PM
...Real Mac people are generally more technology savvy than the average end user and dont need these really generic commercials...

Correct but the ads are not targeting "Real Mac people". They already own a mac.

Bill Gates got ritch by making one good observation: "There are more people in the world who know nothing about computers than there are computer experts. Why not sell to the larger group?"

Have you ever read those reviews in PC magazines where they have benchmarks and under the time required to perform some test they have to put the note "lower is better". A note like that assumes a very stupid reader. The authors likely have reason for their assumption.

I know of one recent Mac "switcher" who bough a refurb G4 iBook. This guy actually thinks he has an Intal Mac and further, he thinks this iBook can run "windows programs" his proof of this is that he can click on a spread sheet and it comes up inside Excel. I am not making this up. It's true. You can not argue with someone who has "proof".

ChrisA
Jun 22, 2006, 02:58 PM
It's open to me because Apple doesn't want to take my business nor that of anyone in the prosumer market. We're not cool enough for them and I'm not into the computer maker telling me what I want and how I'm going to use it. I use my iBook for most daily tasks, but my desktop is running windows. Not because I love windows by anymeans, but because you cannot get a machine with at lteast two full size optical drives, two hard drives, an x16 PCI-express slot, 3 PCI(-e x1) slots, and a card reader on this platfom for under two grand and without an army of external devices and wall warts. Apple doesn't want me, but I have no option to go elsewhere while still using OSX.

They currently do not offer any Intel powered Mac in a tower case. But I'll bet they are orking hard to replace the G5 Power Mac. and it will be available in August. Or so we think.

Apple is only 6 months into this Intel transition. I'm sure that once they complete that, then they will work in filling out the line and updating the Rev A models. But replacing _every_ product in 9 moths has got to be a big job Wait 'till Apple has finishedthat and the engineersare freed up for other tasks.

ezekielrage_99
Jun 22, 2006, 06:39 PM
I'm surprised Apple bashing PC thugs haven't countered with their own brand of ads.They would go something like this

"Apples are crap"

"They are crap just because........"

Ad ends

;) :D

ezekielrage_99
Jun 22, 2006, 06:44 PM
Well, the ads have certainly done there job if people are talking about them.

From a media POV if people are talking about the ads it means they are successfull and thats what most marketing companies want the "water cooler buzz" as they call it, where people are commenting on the ad and putting their own feedback towards the product.

JimmyB248
Jun 22, 2006, 07:05 PM
I think these ad's work brilliantly, they serve their purpose.

So many people that I've spoken to about Mac's have misconceptions (won't run the same software, completely different language I wouldn't be able to learn it, too expensive, I like Windows) and these adverts tackle all of these in a very effective manner. Remember these are just single 30 second spots on TV, people aren't going to analyse them in the way the way that is being done at the moment. And about the restarting, that is not about Apple trying to seem superiour, it is a fact to the consumer. The mass markets knows and truly believes that computers will always freeze and have to be restarted, whether it happens on their machines now or not, people are stupid, the technology looks pretty much the same so there is no reason to think it has changed. Apple takes advantage of this fact and says "hey, you know how you think your computer always has to restart, well ours don't! come buy one"

It's simply a stepping stone for the consumers, you can't convey enough information to sway them in 30 seconds. Damn good job if you ask me.

BenRoethig
Jun 22, 2006, 11:15 PM
They currently do not offer any Intel powered Mac in a tower case. But I'll bet they are orking hard to replace the G5 Power Mac. and it will be available in August. Or so we think.

Apple is only 6 months into this Intel transition. I'm sure that once they complete that, then they will work in filling out the line and updating the Rev A models. But replacing _every_ product in 9 moths has got to be a big job Wait 'till Apple has finishedthat and the engineersare freed up for other tasks.

They didn't have a prosumer Mac in the first place to replace.

Mac Mini-Entry level consumer
iMac- Mid-level consumer
none-Prosumer
PowerMac: High end Professional workstation

zephead
Jun 23, 2006, 12:40 AM
And about the restarting, that is not about Apple trying to seem superiour, it is a fact to the consumer. The mass markets knows and truly believes that computers will always freeze and have to be restarted, whether it happens on their machines now or not, people are stupid, the technology looks pretty much the same so there is no reason to think it has changed. Apple takes advantage of this fact and says "hey, you know how you think your computer always has to restart, well ours don't! come buy one"
That is definitely true. I used to always think that computers need to be often restarted, whether you wanted them to or not. And then I found out about Macs. This was last year, btw, before any of these ads. I've been wanting one ever since. Now I know Macs must have to inevitably restart from time to time (updates, rare crashes) but not nearly as much as I need to restart my Dell laptop. :rolleyes:

And for you people who are going to criticize Apple and Jimmy for saying "people are stupid", Microsoft made money by selling crappy computers to the larger market of the people who don't know much about computers, as opposed to the smaller market of compu-wise people who are a little smarter than the average PC buyer. So shush. :p

rayz
Jun 23, 2006, 02:04 AM
Microsoft made money by selling crappy computers to the larger market of the people who don't know much about computers

Yep, the ad is just for you ... :rolleyes:

zephead
Jun 23, 2006, 12:33 PM
Really though, if you owned a computer company who knew to themselves that their products weren't all that great, then who would you rather sell to, people who don't know enough about computers to notice the faults in them, or to computer experts who would pick out every little thing that was wrong with it, and subsequently wouldn't buy the product? When Microsoft was first making operating systems, the majority of the public knew barely anything about computers. Needless to say, there was a much smaller percentage of people who actually knew things about computers. That's actually a brilliant marketing move by Microsoft, although it's not right, but that's marketing for you.

And yes, that ads are for people like me with ******* PC's that want something better. I can totally relate my PC to the PC guy.

-My Dell regularly freezes on me
-I have to go through the whole driver installation process everytime I plug any of my devices into a different USB port
-Several times I've had to backup my files and reformat my computer because of a virus
-After the reformat, I have to install all my stuff (e.g. Windows Updates, AVG, ZoneAlarm, Spybot, Ad-Aware, Firefox, iTunes, etc.) and re-configure them before I can actually use my computer for what I want to use it for
-Make your own movies? A centralized photo program? A program I can use my guitar with? On my computer? LOL, you've GOT to be kidding.

So, yes, the ads are aimed at people like me with computers like mine. Why? Windows sucks ass. That's my opinion from experience. What? Windows works fine for you? Good for you! I'm glad you have a computer that works for you. So quit bagging on people who like Macs just because their choices aren't the same as yours. You have your choice, and they have theirs. Deal with it.

rayz
Jun 24, 2006, 01:14 AM
Really though, if you owned a computer company who knew to themselves that their products weren't all that great, then who would you rather sell to, people who don't know enough about computers to notice the faults in them, or to computer experts who would pick out every little thing that was wrong with it, and subsequently wouldn't buy the product? When Microsoft was first making operating systems, the majority of the public knew barely anything about computers. Needless to say, there was a much smaller percentage of people who actually knew things about computers. That's actually a brilliant marketing move by Microsoft, although it's not right, but that's marketing for you.

And yes, that ads are for people like me with ******* PC's that want something better. I can totally relate my PC to the PC guy.

Uh Huh ... :rolleyes:


-My Dell regularly freezes on me


Yep, here it comes .... :rolleyes:


-I have to go through the whole driver installation process everytime I plug any of my devices into a different USB port


Right ... :rolleyes:


-Several times I've had to backup my files and reformat my computer because of a virus


Of course, yes .... :rolleyes:
"Millions of viruses as soon as I switched it on". Yep. Got it.


-After the reformat, I have to install all my stuff (e.g. Windows Updates, AVG, ZoneAlarm, Spybot, Ad-Aware, Firefox, iTunes, etc.) and re-configure them before I can actually use my computer for what I want to use it for


Yepindeedy. You have to do that at least several times a day I'm sure ... :rolleyes:


-Make your own movies? A centralized photo program? A program I can use my guitar with? On my computer? LOL, you've GOT to be kidding.


Of course, I forgot that there are absolutely no photo, movie or music applications for Windows .... :rolleyes:

So, yes, the ads are aimed at people like me with computers like mine. Why? Windows sucks ass. That's my opinion from experience. What? Windows works fine for you? Good for you! I'm glad you have a computer that works for you. So quit bagging on people who like Macs just because their choices aren't the same as yours. it.

Hey, if you feel 'bagged' (?), then that's your problem.

Deal with it.

And strangely enough, I have nothing to deal with. Perhaps that's because my choice of computer, isn't linked to my self-esteem.

rayz
Jun 24, 2006, 01:35 AM
I have since reinstalled (clean) OSX and have had no restarts as of yet...however my usage of this machine has gone from daily to once a month.

still, there is no excuse for this powermac being absolutely annihilated in PS and Illustrator performance by my 2-3 year olf athlonXP system with half the ram....wierd. Dont even get started on games...

Personally, I'd just keep beatinng on Apple's door until they sort the problem out. If you've paid a premium for the machine, then don't let it just sit broken in a corner. They will sort it out, but sometimes, you have to be a bit firm with them.

As for the app performance; well, most companies do tend to concentrate a lot more on optimising their stuff for Windows/Intel. Now that Apple is making the exact same PCs, then I think we'll start to see real app performance improvements in the next year.

rayz
Jun 24, 2006, 01:37 AM
They didn't have a prosumer Mac in the first place to replace.

Mac Mini-Entry level consumer
iMac- Mid-level consumer
none-Prosumer
PowerMac: High end Professional workstation

What spec do you have in mind for your prosumer machine?

BenRoethig
Jun 24, 2006, 10:16 AM
What spec do you have in mind for your prosumer machine?

Take a HP M7500 mediacenter and it give it the Apple style treatment.

zephead
Jun 24, 2006, 11:38 AM
I feel that I have proved my point enough to stop this mindless bickering. :)

wmmk
Jun 24, 2006, 11:49 AM
I feel that I have proved my point enough to stop this mindless bickering. :)
thank you. it'd be nice if two other certain people would follow your example;)

wmmk
Jun 24, 2006, 11:50 AM
Take a HP M7500 mediacenter and it give it the Apple style treatment.
interesting. do you mean make it an all in one "iMac Pro"? or minitower "iTower"?

BenRoethig
Jun 24, 2006, 01:01 PM
interesting. do you mean make it an all in one "iMac Pro"? or minitower "iTower"?

Tower definitely. The All in one design is elegant, but it has a lot of draw backs. It would have to be either as big as the eMac or practically useless for the said segment. I want a full featured media creation computer.

MikeTheC
Jun 25, 2006, 01:56 AM
Hello Folks!

Long time, no post. Sorry about that, but that's life.

Anyhow, I've been trying my darndest to get through this particular thread. Unfortunately, it's degenerated into a bit of a rant, and there's only just so much of that which I can take.

Here's my take on the matter (like you've asked)...

Apple has been doing a great job creating ads that the target market will laugh at and find memorable. And the average Windows user will also be able to personally relate to them because of their experiences, which generally are frustrating at best.
.
Apple is in the business of selling computers, not necessarily educating the masses. Yes, it's true that every product manufacturer has some degree of obligation to educate potential customers about their product. Yes, it's true that we're talking about a Monopoly here which Apple seemingly should be "responsible for" educating against. However, the TV ad is simply not the proper vehicle for such education.
.
There is an enormous amount of "ignorance inertia" that Apple has to fight against. My own experience working for 5 years at Sony's Customer Information Service Center (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_CISC) suggests that this is going to be an up-hill, non-stop-slugfest all the way. That's because Microsoft has been busy keeping their user base essentially "fat, dumb and happy". They have been relying upon the "lesser angels" of human nature in allowing ignorance and want (and not their own intelligence) to dictate or control their behavior.
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Are Apple customers (and Mac users in particular) arrogant? Clearly, we are opinionated, and certainly in any group of sufficient size there will always be an element of undesirables taking up space, depriving some village somewhere of their idiot. Now, the argument which goes something to the effect that, since we like how Apple writes their OS and other apps and we hold a disdain for an OS or apps not written "in that fashion" we must therefore be arrogant, well that's really a straw argument. We feel no different than a person who was born and raised in a 1st World country who visits a 3rd World country would when faced with the lack of decent living conditions, living standards, facilities, education, health, etc. Now, if there are those who want to interpret that as arrogance, well then go right ahead. It's a free country. (So far...)

In the final analysis, it's like Forest Gump likes to say: "Stupid is as stupid does."

pink-pony115
Jun 26, 2006, 02:27 AM
I love apple commercials. They are so quirky. :D