June 16, 2005: Michael Dell Says He Would Be Happy to Licens...

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Category: History
Link: June 16, 2005: Michael Dell Says He Would Be Happy to License OS X (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20060616131129)
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Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
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[CANEHDN]

I'm glad Apple said no on this one. It shoves it back in Dells face with a big screw you, we don't need you.

[kev0476]

just proves that dell is all about money.

[dwsolberg]

It's so easy to say you'll do something when you know it won't happen. For example, I'd love to help you move, but I'm going to Tahiti for my sister's wedding that week.

[BenRoethig]

just proves that dell is all about money.

Thus is the nature of a business. Not everyone can teeter between success and being one wrong move from going out of business like Apple did.

Also, when Michael did said what we did, he was referring the beige Apple that Jobs had inherited. It was a company that without a radical makeover would have gone down the toilet and fast if he hasn't shown up. From a business standpoint, he was right. Apple as it was didn't seem like it had much of a chance of making it through.

[BenRoethig]

I'm glad Apple said no on this one. It shoves it back in Dells face with a big screw you, we don't need you.

So, you want Apple to be forever Microsoft's muse huh? Redmond makes much more money off of Apple's ideas than Apple does because of the proprietary system.

[dombi]

You guys do realize that this was news last year. Check the post date, it says 2005 not 2006.

[Billy Boo Bob]

You guys do realize that this was news last year. Check the post date, it says 2005 not 2006.
Yeah. I was kind of curious to see this old news resurface.:confused:

[hoppo99]

You guys do realize that this was news last year. Check the post date, it says 2005 not 2006.

That's because it is Apple history from the AppleMatters website!

[Nermal]

You guys do realize that this was news last year. Check the post date, it says 2005 not 2006.

AppleMatters posts some history almost every day, and we link to it.

[zap2]

Thus is the nature of a business. Not everyone can teeter between success and being one wrong move from going out of business like Apple did.
.


It true, and i don't not like Dell because of it, i dislike Dell because i think they do a bad job at making computers

[yudilks]

Yeah right... Dream on Dell

[BenRoethig]

It true, and i don't not like Dell because of it, i dislike Dell because i think they do a bad job at making computers

Dell is a commodity company. They build what people are willing to buy. If you want something a little more high end, that's your choice. That being said, the two new XPS desktops and the Alienware purchase are a step in the right direction for their high end.

[im_to_hyper]

It was just a revival of a story from last year.

This shouldn't be a "HAHA, DELL, SUX0RS" thread.

It shows that perhaps with the Apple x86 rumors, Dell got wind of it and realized that there was potentional. Yes, business is all about money... not just Dell.... If Apple wasn't about money, then they wouldn't be here, or would be selling all their products at cost of manufacture.

Dell realized, and realizes, and will continue to realize the value of the Mac OS operating system.

[bigandy]

Dell is a commodity company. They build what people are willing to buy. If you want something a little more high end, that's your choice. That being said, the two new XPS desktops and the Alienware purchase are a step in the right direction for their high end.

if only the designs didn't look like the end product of a rather drunk baby... :rolleyes:

[Mord]

how hard is it to make some nice looking cases, hell you could just make cases out of gloss black plastic and look a damn sight better than anything dell has ever made.

[dornoforpyros]

oh yeah...dells all about the money...and apple isn't? christ, get off your high horses people.

[shamino]

Dell selling Mac OS on its computers?

Good for consumers, bad for Apple. Which is why Apple will never authorize this.

As a consumer, I want to be able to run every OS on every computer. Some systems will run my favorite OS's well, and some will not. I can read reviews and research reports to determine which ones do it well and buy those. Just like I can do today with Windows PC's. Maybe Dell will be a good alternative to Apple and maybe it won't. If it doesn't, then nothing's changed. If it is, then there's now competition, which will encourage both companies to improve quality and lower prices.

From Apple's point of view, of course, this would be terrible. Right now, every OS X user (not counting those few people who have hacked their copies) is running on Apple Mac hardware. While some of these hypothetical Dell-OSX customers would never have considered buying Apple equipment, a lot of them will be people who would've bought Apple hardware - meaning Apple lost those sales.

[BenRoethig]

Dell selling Mac OS on its computers?

Good for consumers, bad for Apple. Which is why Apple will never authorize this.

As a consumer, I want to be able to run every OS on every computer. Some systems will run my favorite OS's well, and some will not. I can read reviews and research reports to determine which ones do it well and buy those. Just like I can do today with Windows PC's. Maybe Dell will be a good alternative to Apple and maybe it won't. If it doesn't, then nothing's changed. If it is, then there's now competition, which will encourage both companies to improve quality and lower prices.

From Apple's point of view, of course, this would be terrible. Right now, every OS X user (not counting those few people who have hacked their copies) is running on Apple Mac hardware. While some of these hypothetical Dell-OSX customers would never have considered buying Apple equipment, a lot of them will be people who would've bought Apple hardware - meaning Apple lost those sales.

I'd say the overwhelming majority of them will never buy something from Apple. Apple is a niche company, not a commodity maker like Dell. The computers Apple makes only appeal to a small band of rebels who do not want the status quo in computers.

[shamino]

I'd say the overwhelming majority of them will never buy something from Apple. Apple is a niche company, not a commodity maker like Dell. The computers Apple makes only appeal to a small band of rebels who do not want the status quo in computers.
Only because Macs (until recently) could not run Windows apps very fast.

With Macs able to run Windows today, that may change. Especially when you consider the fact that Macs are very competitively priced against PCs with similarly nice industrial design (like those from Sony).

The kinds of customers who would want to buy a Dell preloaded with OS X are precisely the kind of customers who are buying Macs today. The commodity customers you speak of would not buy an OS X computer from any vendor, so they're not relevant in the comparison.

[BenRoethig]

Only because Macs (until recently) could not run Windows apps very fast.

With Macs able to run Windows today, that may change. Especially when you consider the fact that Macs are very competitively priced against PCs with similarly nice industrial design (like those from Sony).

The kinds of customers who would want to buy a Dell preloaded with OS X are precisely the kind of customers who are buying Macs today. The commodity customers you speak of would not buy an OS X computer from any vendor, so they're not relevant in the comparison.

I think you're missing the point here. Apple's one size approach does not fit all. Your talking as if an all in one iMac is the same thing as a mini-tower Dell or HP. They're not. Completely different classes for different types of customers.

[shamino]

I think you're missing the point here. Apple's one size approach does not fit all. Your talking as if an all in one iMac is the same thing as a mini-tower Dell or HP. They're not. Completely different classes for different types of customers.
And you're tallking as if the only products available are iMacs and plain-gray towers.

A Mac mini (once equipped with keyboard, mouse and display) is comparable in both features and price to the plain-gray tower PCs.

And quite a lot of PC vendors (but not Dell) sell higher-priced all-in-one systems.

Apple is not trying to compete against sub-$400 systems. Never have and never will. And the people looking to buy those systems will never run anything other than Windows XP Home edition, because that's what "comes free" with the hardware. They don't count at all in this discussion, because they'll never buy Apple hardware and they'll never buy Mac OS X for their PCs.

[BenRoethig]

And you're tallking as if the only products available are iMacs and plain-gray towers.

A Mac mini (once equipped with keyboard, mouse and display) is comparable in both features and price to the plain-gray tower PCs.

And quite a lot of PC vendors (but not Dell) sell higher-priced all-in-one systems.

Apple is not trying to compete against sub-$400 systems. Never have and never will. And the people looking to buy those systems will never run anything other than Windows XP Home edition, because that's what "comes free" with the hardware. They don't count at all in this discussion, because they'll never buy Apple hardware and they'll never buy Mac OS X for their PCs.

So, there's only those who buy the $400 PCs and people who should buy Macs? That's about the most narrow view of the computer market I've ever heard of. How about the Prosumer market which Apple completely ignores? Oh right, the iMac should be good enough for all.

[shamino]

So, there's only those who buy the $400 PCs and people who should buy Macs? That's about the most narrow view of the computer market I've ever heard of. How about the Prosumer market which Apple completely ignores? Oh right, the iMac should be good enough for all.
Ummm.... The PowerMac? Did you forget that these systems exist?

I wonder what your point is. You seem to have changed it several times so far.

I started off by saying that the kind of people who will be interested in running OS X are the kind of people who are buying Macs now.

You responded by saying "but Apple doesn't make any commodity systems", which I assume you mean "cheap".

I pointed out that Apple also has cheap systems - like the mini. And that the super-cheap systems won't be bought by people interested in running OS X.

And now you change the subject by saying "but professionals won't buy cheap junk". No kidding. They'll buy high-end gear from either company. A high-end Dell is priced comparably to the PowerMacs.

So I have to ask you: do you have a point or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?

[BenRoethig]

Ummm.... The PowerMac? Did you forget that these systems exist?

I wonder what your point is. You seem to have changed it several times so far.

The PowerMac is a workstation. It is for professionals and starts at $2000. I think the problem that exists here is that some of you are so entrenched in Apple's way of doing things that you cannot fathom there is anything else out there. You guys seriously think that Mini-iMac-PowerMac is the perfect lineup and serves the needs of all computers users and the only reason that everyone isn't using Apple is ignorance on the PC side.

[eva01]

The PowerMac is a workstation. It is for professionals and starts at $2000. I think the problem that exists here is that some of you are so entrenched in Apple's way of doing things that you cannot fathom there is anything else out there. You guys seriously think that Mini-iMac-PowerMac is the perfect lineup and serves the needs of all computers users and the only reason that everyone isn't using Apple is ignorance on the PC side.

I wouldn't consider myself a workstation user and I own a Powermac. Well worth the money.

[shamino]

The PowerMac is a workstation. It is for professionals and starts at $2000. I think the problem that exists here is that some of you are so entrenched in Apple's way of doing things that you cannot fathom there is anything else out there. You guys seriously think that Mini-iMac-PowerMac is the perfect lineup and serves the needs of all computers users and the only reason that everyone isn't using Apple is ignorance on the PC side.
And maybe you should stop and consider the possibility that they're right.

The fact that PC makers have huge variety of capabilities and prices does not mean that the marketplace has a similarly diverse collection of users.

Most users fall into one of two categories. Either the typical home user that just wants to surf web pages, read e-mail, and casually manage media (like photos and MP3 collections.) The other is the power-user - which means those doing media works (including home movie editing) and gaming.

The same applies equally in the PC world. I am asked by many people to recommend PCs. The first question I always ask is "what do you want to do with it?", and the answer invariably puts them into one of those two categories. They either can have all the power they need from a cheap PC (usually with a memory upgrade, but with everything else in its stock configuration), that ends up costing $800-1000, or they need a high-end PC with a fast processor, fast bus, and a high-end video card, which ends up costing over $2000.

The models in the middle usually don't offer anything that you can't get by upgrading the base model. The only point to getting one of them is to save some money, since bundles usually cost less than piecemeal upgrades.

I've had this conversation (that I'm having with you) with many other people. The only "gap" in the Mac product line that they refer to is that they'd like a cheap model with a few PCI slots. This sounds important, but it usually is not. Again, going back to the PC users I know, only the hardcore hacker types ever care about installing expansion cards. It has been a long time since a computer didn't come with a wide enough variety of ports to cover the needs of typical user.

So yes, I fail to see your point. And this has nothing to do with Apple. This has to do with the fact that most users are not power-user hackers like you and I. Most users of both PCs and Macs have requirements far more modest than the PC manufacturers would have you believe, and that very few non-professionals will ever want to upgrade a computer beyond more memory or a larger hard drive.

I think you're falling victim to the "if I want it, the entire world must be demanding it" mentality that seems to be shared by most power users.

[BOOMBA]

Dell or Microsoft?
It seems everyone here is very angry at both for some reason.

[ham_man]

I prefer Apple computers over any other machine, but I will say this: Dell did not get the largest marketshare of any computer maker by making the wrong decisions...

[shamino]

Dell or Microsoft?
It seems everyone here is very angry at both for some reason.
Hate? Hatred is a blind emotional outburst that by definition is devoid of reason.

Angry? Maybe at MS. Dell never did anything to me. MS has, on several occasions, screwed me over (along with thousands of other MS-OS/2 software developers).

Perhaps you're confusing my desire to see MS collapse with hatred. But that would not be accurate. MS has a long track record of unscrupulous business practices. They screw over their customers, their suppliers, their business partners, and even their own employees. They blatantly disregard all complaints, even when those complaints take the form of Federal court orders. They get away with it because they are selling products (Office and Windows) that very few people are willing to do without.

No company that behaves this badly has a right to succeed.

As for Dell? I really couln't care less. They make a pretty good product. I even recommend them to people who feel they have to buy PCs and are unable/unwilling to build their own.

The fact that I don't think it's in Apple's best interest to partner with them has nothing at all to do with my opinion of them as a corporation.

[shamino]

I prefer Apple computers over any other machine, but I will say this: Dell did not get the largest marketshare of any computer maker by making the wrong decisions...
Their quality is among the best PC makers, but (as many different customer surveys repeatedly show) no PC maker is considered very good.

They got their great reputation as a result of low prices and good support. These days, their prices are still among the lowest, but their support is no longer any better than anyone else's. And they are losing market share as a result of this.

[princealfie]

Dell ain't too bad. I like cheapo computers to bring when I don't wanna risk my Apples.

[Phobophobia]

Dell ain't too bad. I like cheapo computers to bring when I don't wanna risk my Apples.
Lol. That's what Mac Minis and iBooks are for.

[rmhop81]

Lol. That's what Mac Minis and iBooks are for.

haha an ibook is a cheap computer? I don't call $1,000 cheap when referring to a basic machine. Why pay $1,000 for a basic ibook for basic needs when you could get a brand new dell laptop for under $400 that does the exact same thing? And the mac mini is monitorless, keyboardless....it's pointless to say it's cheap bc it still doesn't include a monitor or keyboard. Dell can be expensive if you order with absolutely no discount. But the best way is to order from the Dell outlet....which results in my mom's $388 previously ordered new laptop with internal wireless.....CAN'T beat that.

[shamino]

haha an ibook is a cheap computer? I don't call $1,000 cheap when referring to a basic machine. Why pay $1,000 for a basic ibook for basic needs when you could get a brand new dell laptop for under $400 that does the exact same thing?
Ummm.... Because it doesn't do the exact same thing?

Does your $400 Dell include:

An enterprise quality operating system (WinXP Home edition does not count)
A multimedia suite that includes photo organization/editing, multitrack audio recording, video editing and DVD authoring?
FireWire, BlueTooth, and WiFi?

I'm sure you're going to repond with "but I don't use these features so I don't care". That's fine, but it doesn't change the fact that the $1000 iBook does not do the "exact same thing" as your $400 Dell.

It's incredible how many people here believe "if I don't need a feature, then nobody will ever need it, so it's worthless."

[AlmostThere]

Ummm.... Because it doesn't do the exact same thing?

Does your $400 Dell include:

An enterprise quality operating system (WinXP Home edition does not count)
A multimedia suite that includes photo organization/editing, multitrack audio recording, video editing and DVD authoring?
FireWire, BlueTooth, and WiFi?

I'm sure you're going to repond with "but I don't use these features so I don't care". That's fine, but it doesn't change the fact that the $1000 iBook does not do the "exact same thing" as your $400 Dell.

No, but then again it is hard to pitch the extra $600 to someone who is
the typical home user that just wants to surf web pages, read e-mail, and casually manage media (like photos and MP3 collections.)
Feats of which even the cheapest laptop is capable.

It is easy to echo the undeniable capabilities of Apple's mid-range computers (i.e. bottom end Macs), but when it comes to meeting basic requirements, typically they are overkill.

[rmhop81]

Ummm.... Because it doesn't do the exact same thing?

Does your $400 Dell include:

An enterprise quality operating system (WinXP Home edition does not count)
A multimedia suite that includes photo organization/editing, multitrack audio recording, video editing and DVD authoring?
FireWire, BlueTooth, and WiFi?

I'm sure you're going to repond with "but I don't use these features so I don't care". That's fine, but it doesn't change the fact that the $1000 iBook does not do the "exact same thing" as your $400 Dell.

It's incredible how many people here believe "if I don't need a feature, then nobody will ever need it, so it's worthless."

like i said BASIC stuff. Microsoft word, internet and quicken are BASIC stuff that BASIC users do. The $388 laptop does come with internal wireless...but of course you're like every hardcore macky you don't seem to understand that there are people more basic out there then an average ibook user. majority of people that don't know anything about computers and don't care enough about it don't want to pay $1,000 for a laptop that will do the same things that they could do with a $400 dell. THIS is why apple will never gain much market share unless they lower their prices in a huge way. I never said anyone wouldn't ever need it but you have the attitude that everything on an ibook a basic user would use. Why pay the overkill price of $1,000 for things you won't ever use when you could pay $400 for the things you will use on a daily basis. You are a very good example why apple will never grow....too much stuck on apple. Think for a minute and believe that not everyone out there wants a bmw with all the bells and whistles. There are people out there that could get by with a Chevy Aveo.....

[edesignuk]

just proves that dell is all about money.uh, yeah, they're a business :rolleyes:

[rmhop81]

Ummm.... Because it doesn't do the exact same thing?

Does your $400 Dell include:

An enterprise quality operating system (WinXP Home edition does not count)
A multimedia suite that includes photo organization/editing, multitrack audio recording, video editing and DVD authoring?
FireWire, BlueTooth, and WiFi?

All these features you list aren't just for a basic user. I helped someone at work order a laptop and they had no clue what a dvd burner was or what wifi was. do you honestly think the majority of basic computers users really care if it's a enterprise quality operationg system? or that it has multimedia software that they won't ever understand bc they don't have the patience or clue to look at it? they will say firewire, bluetooth, wifi? what is that?

There are 3 categories of users. The ones that have a computer just to access email that don't know how to even change a screen saver. One's that like to organize photos, listen to tunes, play dvds, maybe edit some photos here and there. Then there is the power user. Apple will only be able to get a power user and a few of the people in the middle. they will never get the basic user on the bottom bc of price, simple as that.

[rmhop81]

uh, yeah, they're a business :rolleyes:
haha and that's where i think a lot of apple users think that apple is in it for the experience and lifestyle.....they are in it for the MONEY like every other business is. That's how they get everyone hooked, it's ridiculous haha

[shamino]

All these features you list aren't just for a basic user.
I'm replying to your message because I don't want to repeat myself to everybody else who wrote the same thing.

You believe that Apple should start selling stripped-down garbage (but pre-loaded with a $400 copy of Microsoft Word, of course), in order to appeal to users who couldn't find the power button with a hunting dog and a ouija board.

Customers like this, and products like this, don't do anything to make a company profitable. The equipment is sold with almost no profit margin, and support calls cost a fortune.

Apple doesn't need customers like this. And market share without profit is just stupid, no matter what PC makers would like you to believe. Market share only works if you can become a monopoly and then jack up the price to recovery your losses (as Microsoft did). This will never happen in the PC industry, because there are far too many companies, with none of them having a very large share. And it is a flat-out impossibility for Apple - they could pay customers $1000 per computer, and they still wouldn't become a monopoly.
There are 3 categories of users. The ones that have a computer just to access email that don't know how to even change a screen saver.
And you seem to think the key to insane profits is to sell to these people. People who give you no profit and monopolize your support infrastructure.

Nobody caters to these customers. Not even the great and mighty Dell. These people get their copy of Windows - which is not easy to learn, and end up leaching off of their friends and neighbors every time they turn it on. They get infected by virusses every month and blame everybody but themselves. And when they're sick and tired of cleaning up their own messes, they throw it out and buy a new computer that's exactly the same as the old one, and the cycle repeats.

These customers are best served with anything but a Windows PC. Their needs can be met by almost anything sold, and a non-Windows system will keep them from being victimized by everybody on the internet. Is this kind of security worth paying a higher price? Apparently you think not. I guess you think replacing a computer every year is cheaper than one good one that will last for 3-5 years.
One's that like to organize photos, listen to tunes, play dvds, maybe edit some photos here and there. Then there is the power user. Apple will only be able to get a power user and a few of the people in the middle. they will never get the basic user on the bottom bc of price, simple as that.
First of all, Apple is getting quite a lot of people from all these groups, no matter what you assert. If your measure of success is displacing Microsoft as the dominant OS supplier, then you've created an impossible task. Fortunately, Apple is smart enough to set goals that can actually be achieved.

Second, see above about the stupidity of catering to the lowest of the low. Market share without profit is stupid.

Third, if you think Apple can never get these people, then why should they bother trying? Do you really think it is sound business advice to attempt what you believe to be impossible?

You enjoy complaining a lot, but when it comes down to "what would you do different?", you have no answer. Apple sucks because they're not Microsoft. Apple sucks because they're not Dell. Well if you like them so much, why don't you just buy from Microsoft and Dell? What's with this preoccupation with trying to turn Apple into these companies?

[shamino]

like i said BASIC stuff. Microsoft word, internet and quicken are BASIC stuff that BASIC users do. The $388 laptop does come with internal wireless...but of course you're like every hardcore macky you don't seem to understand that there are people more basic out there then an average ibook user.
I predicted your response and replied to it. And you pretended that I never wrote anything.

You said that the $400 dell and the iBook do the exact same thing.

I pointed out many things that the iBook does that the $400 Dell does not.

And you responded "it doesn't matter because people don't use those features."

That may be true, but your claim that there is no difference between an bottom-end PC and an iBook is simply a lie. A feature doesn't cease to exist just because you think people don't want it.

[Mord]

you could do anything most users need on a 6 year old mac or pc, the diffrence is how much you enjoy doing it and how fast your workflow and for me and most people once they have equal experience with macs and pcs the mac is by far the more efficient system, exposé cuts my file management time in half on its own

[BenRoethig]

And maybe you should stop and consider the possibility that they're right.

I did for over a decade. I toed the 'Apple rules, everybody else sucks' line lock, stock, and barrel. Then I started to think for my self instead of Cupertino doing it for me. I learned that there is another world out there with another way of doing things that most of our stereotypes were just that. The PC users were knowledgable and intelligent, they were just looking for something different than Apple had to offer. Apple has a complete set of answers for people like you. However those answers aren't valid for everyone.

[Boggle]

Ooooh, I've got an idea: BenRoethig v. Shamino, Dance Dance Revolution fight. The concessions alone would make me rich. :D

[shamino]

I did for over a decade. I toed the 'Apple rules, everybody else sucks' line lock, stock, and barrel. Then I started to think for my self instead of Cupertino doing it for me. I learned that there is another world out there with another way of doing things that most of our stereotypes were just that. The PC users were knowledgable and intelligent, they were just looking for something different than Apple had to offer. Apple has a complete set of answers for people like you. However those answers aren't valid for everyone.
If that's what you think I wrote, then you need to go back and read my messages again.

I never said Apple is perfect. I said that it is against Apple's best interests to let Dell sell PC's bundled with Mac OS, and I provided several explanations why.

I also said that a licensing deal like this would be good for consumers. But everybody seems to be acting as if I never wrote that.

People also seem to believe that what's best for consumers has to be what's best for Apple, and vice versa. Nothing could be further from the truth.

People here seem to believe that I want what's best for Apple, simply because I've been posting reasons why partnering with Dell would be a bad decision. Again, this is flat-out untrue. When I explain what Apple should do in their own best interest, it is not an explanation of what I, as a consumer want to see in the marketplace. If you can't understand this, then that's your problem, not mine.

If you had any clue who I am, or if you bothered to read my very extensive history of postings (both here, and on many other forums, plus thousands of usenet postings), you would know that I am anything but an Apple fan-boy. I've used just about every kind of computer that's been invented over the past 20 years. I have good things to say about all of them and I have bad things to say about all of them. But debates on (for instance) different IBM mainframe operating systems, or Solaris-vs.-Ultrix, or whatever, would be extremely off-topic for a Mac Rumors forum

I don't think Windows is a very good system for most users. Its inherently insecure architecture is the biggest reason why newbies connecting to the internet get taken over by hackers and virusses within minutes. I think Apple's UI is easier for new users to understand. I think the amount of bundled applications that come with every Mac more than offsets the slightly higher price-tag. I think the primary reason most people run Windows is because their corporate IT department demands it, or because it "comes free" with hardware, with very little other thought going into the decision.

As for your experience with users, I want to know where you work, that all your users are intelligent and know how to run their computers without shooting themselves in the foot. I know many people who work in IT support, and every one of them has a mile-long list of stories about how idiotic their users are. You must work for the only company in the world that isn't choked to death with incompetant users.

And no, the choice of Windows does not make them incompetant. Incompetance happens everywhere. But when you're using a system that seems to go out of its way to make everything as complicated as possible (which has been the case with Windows for many years), their incompetance results in trashed systems instead of merely confused users.

But I'm sure you'll ignore everything I wrote above and act as if I said nothing more than "Apple r00lz d00dz".

[rmhop81]

You believe that Apple should start selling stripped-down garbage (but pre-loaded with a $400 copy of Microsoft Word, of course), in order to appeal to users who couldn't find the power button with a hunting dog and a ouija board.


And you seem to think the key to insane profits is to sell to these people.


These customers are best served with anything but a Windows PC. Their needs can be met by almost anything sold, and a non-Windows system will keep them from being victimized by everybody on the internet. Is this kind of security worth paying a higher price? Apparently you think not. I guess you think replacing a computer every year is cheaper than one good one that will last for 3-5 years.


Third, if you think Apple can never get these people, then why should they bother trying? Do you really think it is sound business advice to attempt what you believe to be impossible?

You enjoy complaining a lot, but when it comes down to "what would you do different?", you have no answer. Apple sucks because they're not Microsoft. Apple sucks because they're not Dell. Well if you like them so much, why don't you just buy from Microsoft and Dell? What's with this preoccupation with trying to turn Apple into these companies?

A vast majority of people out there don't have a clue about computers. They buy what is cheap. Which is why people like that will NEVER buy from apple. Again I must repeat myself since you can't read.....that $400 Dell does exactly what they want, so why pay $600 extra just bc guys like you thinks that they should get apple to simply be "DIFFERENT". You don't seem to understand that when it comes to computers people have uses for it. So to them, why would they pay more than double the price for something that does what the $400 does easily??? That is the part you don't seem to understand. Not everyone has the same likes that you do. We all have different needs. When I suggest a computer to someone the first thing I ask is what do you want to do with it? they say just get online to check email and maybe some word processing.....i say ok great, this $400 dell would do the trick.. WHY would i suggest them paying $600 more for an apple ibook when that Dell does everything they want??

Again, I mentioned nothing about INSANE profits....profits didn't even come up in my post, so read again. This group is simply the vast majority of computer users out there.

You're talking Security. When most mac users say "hey, it's a mac man you don't need a firewall or antivirus. We don't get viruses" That's bc apple is like 4% of market share that means, 96% of all computers out there use WINDOWS, why would a hacker waste time with 4%? AND that is the attitude of an apple fanboy.....PC's break down every year and you have to buy a new one. Hmmmm last time I checked apple uses the same parts as PC'S do. My mom is using her 6 year old dell desktop as we speak.. Never had one single problem.

And apple attempting to get these people? that's a dumb argument. Considering that's what business are trying to do. their ultimate goal. Businesses wouldn't exist if they didn't do stuff like that.

Not once did I even mention about apple sucking. I love apple....but the problem is people like you that are total fanboys and think PC suxorz!! All i'm telling you is.....there are tons and tons of people out there that barely know how to turn on a computer let alone would be able to use iphoto and itunes....so why should they pay $1,000 for an ibook when they could pay $400 for a dell that does EVERYTHING they need. That's what i mean when i say ONCE again that apple will never get much market share. Not a lot of people wnat to pay $1,099 for the cheapest laptop that apple offers. What are they gonna get if they need a cheap laptop just to take on vacation and they don't care about getting beat up? do you honestly think someone is going to drop $1100 on a macbook? NO they will go with a $400 dell.

To answer your last question.....I use OS X AND WINDOWS (Dell 700m to be exact)...so that's why i'm not stuck all over the apple hype and a fanboy like yourself. I am very knowledgable on both systems and if i had to recommend a cheap basic computer to someone I would never say apple. Apple isn't cheap......it's a NICHE market, that's what it will always be unless they lower prices.

[BenRoethig]

A vast majority of people out there don't have a clue about computers. They buy what is cheap. Which is why people like that will NEVER buy from apple. Again I must repeat myself since you can't read.....that $400 Dell does exactly what they want, so why pay $600 extra just bc guys like you thinks that they should get apple to simply be "DIFFERENT". You don't seem to understand that when it comes to computers people have uses for it. So to them, why would they pay more than double the price for something that does what the $400 does easily??? That is the part you don't seem to understand. Not everyone has the same likes that you do. We all have different needs. When I suggest a computer to someone the first thing I ask is what do you want to do with it? they say just get online to check email and maybe some word processing.....i say ok great, this $400 dell would do the trick.. WHY would i suggest them paying $600 more for an apple ibook when that Dell does everything they want??

Again, I mentioned nothing about INSANE profits....profits didn't even come up in my post, so read again. This group is simply the vast majority of computer users out there.

You're talking Security. When most mac users say "hey, it's a mac man you don't need a firewall or antivirus. We don't get viruses" That's bc apple is like 4% of market share that means, 96% of all computers out there use WINDOWS, why would a hacker waste time with 4%? AND that is the attitude of an apple fanboy.....PC's break down every year and you have to buy a new one. Hmmmm last time I checked apple uses the same parts as PC'S do. My mom is using her 6 year old dell desktop as we speak.. Never had one single problem.

And apple attempting to get these people? that's a dumb argument. Considering that's what business are trying to do. their ultimate goal. Businesses wouldn't exist if they didn't do stuff like that.

Not once did I even mention about apple sucking. I love apple....but the problem is people like you that are total fanboys and think PC suxorz!! All i'm telling you is.....there are tons and tons of people out there that barely know how to turn on a computer let alone would be able to use iphoto and itunes....so why should they pay $1,000 for an ibook when they could pay $400 for a dell that does EVERYTHING they need. That's what i mean when i say ONCE again that apple will never get much market share. Not a lot of people wnat to pay $1,099 for the cheapest laptop that apple offers. What are they gonna get if they need a cheap laptop just to take on vacation and they don't care about getting beat up? do you honestly think someone is going to drop $1100 on a macbook? NO they will go with a $400 dell.

To answer your last question.....I use OS X AND WINDOWS (Dell 700m to be exact)...so that's why i'm not stuck all over the apple hype and a fanboy like yourself. I am very knowledgable on both systems and if i had to recommend a cheap basic computer to someone I would never say apple. Apple isn't cheap......it's a NICHE market, that's what it will always be unless they lower prices.


I agree with most of what you say besides the part on security. Unlike the PC, the Mac restricts what a user can access. You can write malware for a Mac, but without an administrator password, it can't do much. Apple is in agreat position for a specific niche, however most of the computer world exists beyond that niche.