More Software and Marketshare

[MacRumors]

This Dow Jones Newswire story (http://finance.lycos.com/home/news/story.asp?story=31815976) reports on Apple's Financial Officer, Fred Anderson, speaking at the Goldman Sachs Technology Symposium. Anderson reportedly stated that a "good intermediate goal" was to reach a 5% marketshare (from 3%).

Beyond this, Anderson hints at future products

Users of Macintosh machines from Apple also are "going to see more and more software coming out of Apple," Mr. Anderson said.

Apple has been aggressively introducing new software over the past few years, expanding its library with both iApps and Professional Apps. The latest additions have been to both internet and office areas with Safari and Keynote.

There have been some unsubstantiated hints (http://page2.macrumors.com/) of more Apple software acquisitions - which have yet to find serious confirmation. Meanwhile, a number of software updates appear to be in line for April releases... with hints of iTunes (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/02/20030209214809.shtml), Final Cut Pro 4 (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/02/20030224030955.shtml) and possibly Appleworks.

[iJon]

there is no doubt in my mind when steve said this will be a great year.

iJon

[vniow]

MacAztec beat 'cha. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20965)

[insidedanshead]

I really hate the 5% crap. Why don't they come up with a home user market share? There's only that many more PCs out there because big corporations buy lightweight super cheap PCs to act as typewriters on steroids (personally I wouldnt want anyone doing that to a mac.. its almost hurts me to see a mac not used to its potential) .. How about a market share analysis on computers that matter? Computers that actually serve a purpose in this world... and i bet then apple has a much larger marketshare than 5%...

[timbloom]

My whole rationale about investing so much of my money into Apple stocks is that they have such a low market share, so if they gain just one percent, they will eventially have 33% growth.

[Trimix]

timbloom,

after the goldman meeting apple shares went up nicely.
seems the investing community is seeing the potential too.
as a long suffering shareholder, i just wish you are right :)

[mac15]

thats only 5% of marketshare sales , there is a still huge install base, so 5% is not so spot on. Ambitiouslemon.com has some figures but its not up now.

[Nebrie]

Dell only gets 15% of it's revenue from it's Home division, so it's pretty important for Apple to expand their new business division pretty damn fast.

[michaelyoung]

Originally posted by Nebrie
Dell only gets 15% of it's revenue from it's Home division, so it's pretty important for Apple to expand their new business division pretty damn fast.

Why so fast?

[Mindfield]

Originally posted by Macrumors
This Dow Jones Newswire story (http://finance.lycos.com/home/news/story.asp?story=31815976) reports on Apple's Financial Officer, Fred Anderson, speaking at the Goldman Sachs Technology Symposium. Anderson reportedly stated that a "good intermediate goal" was to reach a 5% marketshare (from 3%).

Yeah baby, yeah :D

[Hemingray]

I do have to give Apple credit for really pushing the software these past few years. It's made my life a lot easier! Now the day that OS X gets up to the level of OS 9 maturity-wise and perceived speed-wise, that will be a great day indeed. :)

Oh, but what I'm looking forward to the most is the PPC970... we will be back in the saddle again!

[Sol]

It is not a good sign for Apple when they admit the best they can manage is 5% market share. How about taking steps to dominate the market? All the work that has gone into their software would be wasted if only a fraction of people can use them. Furthermore, a few months after Apple brings an innovative product to the market its competitors rip it off and sell it to Windows users. It happened with the Mac OS when Microsoft ripped it off, iMovie, iPod, etc. Apple should go all out and invade Microsoft's space otherwise the best it can manage is niche product status.

[dricci]

Originally posted by Sol
It is not a good sign for Apple when they admit the best they can manage is 5% market share. How about taking steps to dominate the market? All the work that has gone into their software would be wasted if only a fraction of people can use them. Furthermore, a few months after Apple brings an innovative product to the market its competitors rip it off and sell it to Windows users. It happened with the Mac OS when Microsoft ripped it off, iMovie, iPod, etc. Apple should go all out and invade Microsoft's space otherwise the best it can manage is niche product status.

Companies with a niche product can survive just fine. Like fancy car companies (arg, I hate this analogy, but it actually fits here...). And Apple can't compete on the low-end el-cheapo bulk boxes corporations buy.

3-5% is just in quartly sales. The lifetime of an average Mac is much longer, and many people replace their PCs yearly. Also, how about the people who buy PCs just to wipe the drive of Windows and put Linux or BSD on there to run a server? Yes, a Windows licence was sold, but is it being used? Same thing with corporate machines. It's a glorified typewriter that is on from 9 am to 5 pm, and does nothing more.

These are things people don't seem to factor in when judging Apple's marketshare. Apple has never been in a dominating position in the PC industry, they've always been a niche. And they've survived through a lot worser times than right now (right now it's a very good time to be an Apple user, and I'm sure it will just keep getting better throughout this year!). While it's not bad to be a niche product (as long as you're making money and have great products), Apple's still not as "small" in the home user markets as many people perceive.

[Nebrie]

Originally posted by michaelyoung
Why so fast?

Take a look at Gateway

[pretentious]

The only percentages I would trust are from Google (http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist.html)
Since any PC not used as a print server or a cash register but actually used as a Personal computer will be on the net, and if you are on the net you are probably going to use Google.

[backspinner]

Originally posted by pretentious
The only percentages I would trust are from Google
I wonder what the 4% "other" will be? Maybe a misconfigured browser?

[synp]

Non IE-on-Win browsers have the ability to pretend to be something else in both browser type and Operating System.

This may cause the Mac and Linux figures to be too low.

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by backspinner
I wonder what the 4% "other" will be? Maybe a misconfigured browser?
*nix maybe.

There are like 10000 + varients. :D

[MacsRgr8]

In a couple of browsers you are able to "choose" the user agent. If you use the "Debug" menu in Safari for instance, and choose Windows MSIE 6 what will google "think" you are using?
My point is here that no-one using IE on Windows will choose another user agent, but some mac users will. Maybe this 4% figure is slightly too low??? (wishfull thinking perhaps :) )

[springscansing]

Originally posted by insidedanshead
I really hate the 5% crap. Why don't they come up with a home user market share? There's only that many more PCs out there because big corporations buy lightweight super cheap PCs to act as typewriters on steroids (personally I wouldnt want anyone doing that to a mac.. its almost hurts me to see a mac not used to its potential) .. How about a market share analysis on computers that matter? Computers that actually serve a purpose in this world... and i bet then apple has a much larger marketshare than 5%...

5% may look low, but compared to all other computer manufacturers, Apple has the third biggest market share.

OBVIOUSLY when you compare Apple versus ALL PC companies you lose, but Apple is only behind HP/Compaq and Dell as far as marketshare goes.

Apple isn't going anywhere. I think this is an important point to make.

[springscansing]

*points up at his last post*

[Mr. MacPhisto]

Originally posted by backspinner
I wonder what the 4% "other" will be? Maybe a misconfigured browser?

Maybe OS/2. It still has a small, active community supporting it - and runs pretty much all the airports in the country. IBM has not officially killed it yet because there is a user base.

[-hh]

Originally posted by Mr. MacPhisto
Maybe OS/2. It still has a small, active community supporting it - and runs pretty much all the airports in the country. IBM has not officially killed it yet because there is a user base.

I just saw it announced recently (within the past month):
IBM has announced an EOL date for OS/2 support.



-hh

[Le Big Mac]

Originally posted by mac15
thats only 5% of marketshare sales , there is a still huge install base, so 5% is not so spot on. Ambitiouslemon.com has some figures but its not up now.

Good point. If you make crappy machines that last half as long, you can sell twice as many of them.

[MorganX]

Originally posted by Macrumors
The latest additions have been to both internet and office areas with Safari and Keynote.

I would be very open to a new beefier word processor form Apple. I don't like Appleworks and picture management in Word is atrocious. A Word with PageMaker graphic handling and Keynote style.

But Apple has to beware and not try the razor blade methodology. 12 templates in Keynote is not enough. Apple needs a site such as office.microsoft.com. In addition to the plethora of included templates, Microsoft gives away tons of professionally deisgned templates, clip art, tips, etc. for its entire office suite. You can even request templates.

Apple would do well to take note. Keynote and Document plus packs will go nowhere fast.

Office.microsoft.com is one of the best features of Office. Sure for most people Office is overpriced, but look at the value this site adds. Apple can do this.

First steps:

.Mac free for registered mac owners. Minimal charge for Windows users

Start building the appleoffice.apple.com infrastructure. (Professionally deisgned templates for keynote, clip art. Get the word processor out the door. Excel will be tough, but it it can put a Keynote type face and UI on a spreadsheet engine comparable and 100% compatible with Excel, I think they could get to 10% in less than 5 years.)

[PensDevil]

Begin rant...

Why do so many people want more templates? Sure, templates look nice and are easy to use. The drawback is that using a template makes your work look just like everyone else's work. When making a presentation (Keynote or PowerPoint, does not matter) is it really a good thing to have it look just like the one that some other peron gave last week?

If a little bit of time is taken, it is not that difficult to create your own personal template. Doing so makes it original and you don't need to sacrafice quality.

...end rant

[praetorian_x]

It's simple. If apple wants to grow marketshare, the *must* compete on price. The only reason HP/Compaq can still pull any sales is because of thier corporate sales force and large scale deployment experience. Dell is eating into that monthly (I'm seeing it happen within my company).

Some individuals will care about the small aesthetic differences between macs and PC's. (I do.) But, functionally, macs and PC's are nearly equivilent. Your average user will notice large superficial differences between the mac and a windows boxen, but almost no functional difference. So, quite rationally, it comes down to cost.

Given how apple is currently dropping the ball on aggresively pushing the iPods market share, I don't hold out hight hopes. If apple were serious about being anything other than a botique player in the mp3 space, and in truly becoming the "walkman" of the digital age, they would have a model at ~$150. But, as usual, they shy away from high-volume low-margin markets.

The PC market is high-volume low-margin. Not sure what that means for apple.

Cheers,
prat

[yzedf]

We are in a depressed PC market. Have been since OS X came out, more or less. Apple has gained no traction within the market. Why? In a depressed market (a market of lower sales) it takes less sales (in $) to move up or down a percentage point of the market. If prices were cut 10% across the line, from emac to powermac to ipod, would Apple gain enough market share, and increased sales, to offset the lower margins? Should Apple sell more PC compatible parts? I am thinking LCD displays mainly (without an adaptor). We know they have $4bil USD in the bank. We know the margins are high enough. What we don't know is, why didn't this start 18 months ago?

Bear or Bull?

[yzedf]

Originally posted by pretentious
The only percentages I would trust are from Google (http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist.html)
Since any PC not used as a print server or a cash register but actually used as a Personal computer will be on the net, and if you are on the net you are probably going to use Google.

In China, Google has been banned. Completely blocked off for most.

[DeusOmnis]

Everyone make sure to tell all your friends how great your mac is and how great all of the software is. I have many many windows friends who just hate windows, and as i tell them about macintosh, they get closer and closer to buying. We, the mac community, are part of this drive for market share as well.

[straphound]

I think that it is great that Apple is creating their own software. That is just another reason for people to buy them. I think it also says that not enough people (developers) are showing faith in the Mac platform so Apple needs to make its own to make up the difference.

[nuckinfutz]

Do most of you know what a 2% increase in Marketshare would accomplish for Apple?

Even if you take yearly sales you would still be talking thousands of new Mac users. If you're talking Worldwide you're talking Millions.

Each represents a new upgrade revenue stream. Each represents a .mac opportunity.

Apple's goal is to hit 8 Million in revenue. Then they'll probably shoot for 10. You have to build up step by step. I'm encouraged by this news.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by mac15
thats only 5% of marketshare sales , there is a still huge install base, so 5% is not so spot on. Ambitiouslemon.com has some figures but its not up now.


The lemon actually got the numbers and the story from SpyMac. I know I know you are saying oh SpyMac it can't be right then. Just read the article and decide for yourself. I personally think his numbers stand up to scrutiny.

http://www.spymac.com/comments.php?id=P215_0_5_0_C

[iShater]

Originally posted by Le Big Mac
Good point. If you make crappy machines that last half as long, you can sell twice as many of them.

You can also say that if you refresh your machines with faster components at the rate the wintel side does, you would sell twice as many of them as well. :rolleyes:

[iShater]

Originally posted by DeusOmnis
Everyone make sure to tell all your friends how great your mac is and how great all of the software is. I have many many windows friends who just hate windows, and as i tell them about macintosh, they get closer and closer to buying. We, the mac community, are part of this drive for market share as well.

I agree! I used to tell my friends about Macs, but they didn't get that interested. It was only until a friend of mine started getting into making home movies on his DELL, and he started complaining that I told him to go play with iMovie.

He is now the happy owner of a 17" 800Mhz iMac :D

[jayscheuerle]

Going from 3% to 5% is a 66% increase in sales. That would be phenomenal...

[MorganX]

Originally posted by PensDevil
Begin rant...

Why do so many people want more templates? Sure, templates look nice and are easy to use. The drawback is that using a template makes your work look just like everyone else's work. When making a presentation (Keynote or PowerPoint, does not matter) is it really a good thing to have it look just like the one that some other peron gave last week?

If a little bit of time is taken, it is not that difficult to create your own personal template. Doing so makes it original and you don't need to sacrafice quality.

...end rant

While this seems logical, it just doesn't happen that much. With 12, I'm sure it might. But with the "main" focus always being the content unless your audience has just received a presentation with the template, they'll never know. If audience is external, chances are slim the template will be recognized as a duplicate, if it's internal you just want it to look good. You want time spent on content and delivery, not creating a consistent theme. IME/O, you can't have enough templates, unless your job is to "create templates."

The more users you have, the more templates you will need just to address personal style and taste as well. While we may disagree that more templates are needed, we probably both agree that the 12 in Keynote and much more polished than any 12 in PowerPoint.

That's presentation software, of course the need for as many word processing templates should be self-evident. For large and small businesses.

[MorganX]

Originally posted by praetorian_x
It's simple. If apple wants to grow marketshare, the *must* compete on price. The only reason HP/Compaq can still pull any sales is because of thier corporate sales force and large scale deployment experience. Dell is eating into that monthly (I'm seeing it happen within my company).

Some individuals will care about the small aesthetic differences between macs and PC's. (I do.) But, functionally, macs and PC's are nearly equivilent. Your average user will notice large superficial differences between the mac and a windows boxen, but almost no functional difference. So, quite rationally, it comes down to cost.

Given how apple is currently dropping the ball on aggresively pushing the iPods market share, I don't hold out hight hopes. If apple were serious about being anything other than a botique player in the mp3 space, and in truly becoming the "walkman" of the digital age, they would have a model at ~$150. But, as usual, they shy away from high-volume low-margin markets.

The PC market is high-volume low-margin. Not sure what that means for apple.

Cheers,
prat

Apple may never compete at the low-margin. Actually, PC Makers can't make any money there either. Only Microsoft and software developers benefit. But there is a high-end PC market. People who actually pay for Office and the latest 3D hardware and CPU.

Apple needs to improve it's Price/Performance and add much more value for the premium. (i.e. don't gouge RAM prices, free .Mac, templates and software add-ons.)

[Kid Red]

Also keep in mind that market share figures includes EVERY type of computer running a form of windows. So all those thousands of computer/registers in resturants, cash registers in Wla-Mart and various other stores, etc are factored into that figure. So it's a tad disproportionate.

As for the article, I'm surprised no one is discussing the software.

We have Appleworks, that if seperate could become 2 apps. A music app had been rumored for a while now, high end pro app based on Shake.

What else could they release?

[jayscheuerle]

Originally posted by praetorian_x

Given how apple is currently dropping the ball on aggresively pushing the iPods market share, I don't hold out hight hopes. If apple were serious about being anything other than a botique player in the mp3 space, and in truly becoming the "walkman" of the digital age, they would have a model at ~$150. But, as usual, they shy away from high-volume low-margin markets.

The PC market is high-volume low-margin. Not sure what that means for apple.

Cheers,
prat

Agreed. Apple's pricing structure from .Mac to the iPod makes me believe that they think everyone out there is making $80K/yr with oodles of discretionary income. Perhaps the most compelling reason for holding an East Coast MacWorld is so that Mr. Jobs has to at least fly over the masses of America if not acknowledge that they exist... - j

[Foxer]

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
Agreed. Apple's pricing structure from .Mac to the iPod makes me believe that they think everyone out there is making $80K/yr with oodles of discretionary income. Perhaps the most compelling reason for holding an East Coast MacWorld is so that Mr. Jobs has to at least fly over the masses of America if not acknowledge that they exist... - j

Which leads to an interesting question I've always pondered... Has anyone ever seen demo information on the typical Apple user? Age, income, education, profession, etc... I'm sure Apple has this information internally, but has anyone ever come accross it otherwise. I think it might paint an intereting picture.

[springscansing]

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
Agreed. Apple's pricing structure from .Mac to the iPod makes me believe that they think everyone out there is making $80K/yr with oodles of discretionary income. Perhaps the most compelling reason for holding an East Coast MacWorld is so that Mr. Jobs has to at least fly over the masses of America if not acknowledge that they exist... - j

That's ridiculous.. show me a better mp3 player for the price.

[MorganX]

Originally posted by springscansing
That's ridiculous.. show me a better mp3 player for the price.

For the price, you can do better. Better low end sound, more formats, recording.

What you may not be able to do is find something "nicer to own" for the price.

I have a 5GB and even though I can find better sound, it's not enough to tear me away from the iPod. But I won't upgrade without more sound control, better low end, and on-the-fly playlists.

[nuckinfutz]

Agreed. Apple's pricing structure from .Mac to the iPod makes me believe that they think everyone out there is making $80K/yr with oodles of discretionary income. Perhaps the most compelling reason for holding an East Coast MacWorld is so that Mr. Jobs has to at least fly over the masses of America if not acknowledge that they exist... - j


I think you're wrong.

.Mac $8.25 per Month.

Monthly charges.
Line6 Guitarport Online- $ 7.99
XM Radio- $9.95
Sirius- $12.95
Bank Online banking Key-$6.95 per month.
Tivo- $12.95


Just a brief smattering. Running just about any service entails a small charge. .mac Is very affordable compared to many a service.

You don't need 80k to purchase Apple. This is a tired subject that's been beat to death. Apple has an acceptable price range that will only get better in the future.

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by Mr. MacPhisto
Maybe OS/2. It still has a small, active community supporting it - and runs pretty much all the airports in the country. IBM has not officially killed it yet because there is a user base. What part of Airports? Operations? Airline use?

[Bateman]

I've found this as the time to put in my $0.02...

Does anybody else think that Apple having a user base as large (or small, most would say) as it is, that this is actually allowing them to make better products? The fact that they only have to make products for 5% of the market allows them to focus their efforts more effectively on the people that are using their products. There are definately more common denominators between 5% of the market than 90% of the market where Apple would have to cater to many different aspects of computing, personal and business...

Apple's projected direction into the digital hub, digital lifestyle and renovated personal computing experience is amazing, and they are doing it quite well, but I have noticed more and more that the people that I know who use their Apple machines for their business (using programs such as ProTools and Quark) have become alittle ticked at apple lately. It seems as if they feel like they are being left behind so that apple can pursue this new market of average computer users and that their high-end operations are now being overshadowed, even though they have been the ones throwing down thousands upon thousands of dollars for the top of the line equipment year after year...

Not all of this is attributed to apple, and i am not sure if there are more professionals out there who remember the day of the dignified macintosh but are finding themselves wondering where their breathtaking power and full-scale support has gone. Like i said before, i'm just calling it as I see it and maybe my perspective has gone awry and definately correct me if i am wrong.

Apple always has been and hopefully always will be the professionals computer for things such as movie editing, music production and especially graphic arts. Hopefully their pursuit of a larger user base will not dilute their aspect of the high end user!! In apple I trust!

[esome]

I suspect that an iTunes update would be the logical time for an iPod update too. So if there isn't likely to be an update to iTunes until April, I guess there may not be an iPod update untill then either. bummer.

[jayscheuerle]

Originally posted by springscansing
That's ridiculous.. show me a better mp3 player for the price.

The question is whether a glorified Walkman should be $250+... I guess someone has to be an industry leader, but these things we'll have reached an appropriate price point when they fall below $100...

Show you a better one for what price? Are any other players out there nearly as expensive?

I'm guessing that Apple can retain their marketshare if they keep targeting the people that are born every minute...

[iShater]

Originally posted by Foxer
Which leads to an interesting question I've always pondered... Has anyone ever seen demo information on the typical Apple user? Age, income, education, profession, etc... I'm sure Apple has this information internally, but has anyone ever come accross it otherwise. I think it might paint an intereting picture.

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-943519.html

I don't like the way they use "Smarter", smarter to make the choice to use Mac, not smarter because of any other factors (income, education, etc.)

[MorganX]

Originally posted by nuckinfutz

You don't need 80k to purchase Apple. This is a tired subject that's been beat to death. Apple has an acceptable price range that will only get better in the future.

Get better than what? It's acceptable now isn't it?

[MorganX]

Originally posted by iShater
http://news.com.com/2100-1040-943519.html

I don't like the way they use "Smarter", smarter to make the choice to use Mac, not smarter because of any other factors (income, education, etc.)


Smarter may be correct. Mac's cost more than PCs in general. (facts is facts). If you take PC users with machines that cost $1500+ you'll probably find the same level of education and affluency if you compare to Mac users who have systems costing $1500+.

Just a guess.

[beatle888]

yea, on the price of the ipod...i dont think i'd buy one. i love apple but an mp3 player isnt that important to me. definetly not important enough to spend three hundred bucks on one. i'd rather buy a cheaper one that will last say three years. i wonder how much something like that would cost. hmmm, thats what i need :D a cheapo mp3 player, actually, you know what, i dont need an mp3 player at all .

[beatle888]

Originally posted by MorganX
Get better than what? It's acceptable now isn't it?


i believe the context in which he was talking would be "get better" as in the technology becomes less expensive and pricess drop. and for the "acceptable" part (he's replying to someone that said not everyone makes 80k) would mean to those in a lower income bracket, say 30k. its all there when you dont try to distort or ignore the context....:D but i do it all the time myself :)

[pretentious]

Originally posted by yzedf
In China, Google has been banned. Completely blocked off for most.

Google is not banned in China (http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,104934,00.asp), but it shouldn't matter to the Mac market share, 'cuz I believe Apple shows a non-exsistant % in China, and it would/does bring more Windows users to the fold.

Originally posted by Kid Red
Also keep in mind that market share figures includes EVERY type of computer running a form of windows. So all those thousands of computer/registers in restaurants, cash registers in Wal-Mart and various other stores, etc are factored into that figure. So it's a tad disproportionate.

As I said before the Google Zeitgeist (http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist.html), does not factor that in. So ask your self: How many cash registers and print servers surf the web? Should be none.
How many personal computers used as personal computers do? Nearly all.

The Zeitgeist shows actual personal uses of computing, that nearly every one who has a computer does; Search through Google (BTW I just saw a story on TechTV that Google.com has became more well known as a brand than even Apple or Coke!)

However the double edge sword for using the Zeitgeist instead of the usual sales figures that analyst use, is that while Google is at an excellent position to show real operating system marketshare that sales could not, but it also shows the amount of pirated systems are out there, most notably SE Asia which we should all know runs on mostly pirated versions of Windows (no doubt one of the most contributing factors to why Win '98 holds such a commanding lead in OSes on the Zeitgeist), and I would imagine that the amount of pirated systems vs. none fully utilized systems are nearly congruent.
So while using sales figures to base market share is flawed, using the Zeitgeist doesn't help that much either but at least it helps on pissing off the random desktop Linux zealot saying that they are going to take over the number two slot in operating systems.:D

[Mr. MacPhisto]

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
What part of Airports? Operations? Airline use?

Operations. There was, at one point, air traffic control. Not sure about that anymore. If you get a chance to look at the background of some operations terminals at an Airport, you'll see OS/2 running in the background.

[edenwaith]

Originally posted by beatle888
yea, on the price of the ipod...i dont think i'd buy one. i love apple but an mp3 player isnt that important to me. definetly not important enough to spend three hundred bucks on one. i'd rather buy a cheaper one that will last say three years. i wonder how much something like that would cost. hmmm, thats what i need :D a cheapo mp3 player, actually, you know what, i dont need an mp3 player at all .

Or just invest $50 or $60 into a Discman. When I got my first portable CD player, I played that poor thing to death. Took me several years to finally buy another one, but I'm glad I did. I'd love to have an iPod, but the problem with it being that to put new songs on it, I'd have to spend tons of hard drive space on my computer, then import those songs onto the iPod. It would be great for long flights and having half of my music collection with me, but for just casual travel and walking around, it's nice to just select any CD at random, pop it into my CD player, and away I go.

[edenwaith]

Just in general comments, I'm glad to see Apple get more into the software side of things. Look at Microsoft, they made their riches from selling software...they certainly aren't raking in the money from the XBox! So, if Apple can get more into the software game, especially software which will make them money, then perhaps they will be even better off.

So far it seems like they've been doing some great work on products to make the Mac an attractive choice: iTunes, iMovie, iDVD...certainly Apple has gone after their digital hub strategy and done quite well. If I was in hell and had to use a PC, I don't even know where I would start with some software to make movies or convert MP3's to AIFF format to create my own CD's, or what type of CD burning software I should use. What about making a home movie? Ummm....I think Windows XP might have some crappy attempt of movie software...maybe, or maybe I'm just making stuff up now.

[Wry Cooter]

Originally posted by edenwaith
It would be great for long flights and having half of my music collection with me, but for just casual travel and walking around, it's nice to just select any CD at random, pop it into my CD player, and away I go.

and its Damn freaking nice not to have to juggle those Jewel Cases, carrying 80 CDs worth, 3 days non-stop of musical choices, in something the size of a pack of cards, with the smallest of iPods.

[MasterX (OSiX)]

5% is a great short term goal. Think of this, how many long time Mac users out there have converted someone? It's like cancer but good. That should be my signature... well anyway. I converted one person, then his sister got a Mac and he converted 2 people, etc etc. I think the problem is that a lot of the old macs which we toute and being such a great lasting value actually screw over apple. I'm sure we all know someone who owned a PowerPC then went to a P3/P4 recenetly. It's completely backwards! OSX is better than anything Apple ever had, but are more people switching?

Consider this, so many more people have computers now than before. I won't say Apple dropped the ball during the market's exploding to every corner of the world, since at the time the cheapest mac was around $1299 for a G3. Apple lacks aggressive advertising. The war isn't over. TONS of people have these new $899 PCs they can't use for crap and are stuck to Yahoo mail and IE6. 100 files on your WinXP desktop and a little thing which pops up every hour to try to erase your files. :-D

My theory was always if every Mac user now converts a FULL TEN PEOPLE things will be great. I think I got 10. It's a hard fight, but demos help. I got one person with a 10 minute demo of iPhoto. Plugged in their Canon PowerShot and iPhoto opened. Somethign which seems silly like not having to click the iPhoto icon in the dock is a huge selling point for people who seem to refuse to remember anything about hwo to use their computer ;-D. MacRumors.com needs a whole thing on converting people. MacAddict did one of those before, that should be a monthly feature!

So go out there and convert people! Remember the eMac with SuperDrive. People love DVDs.

[MasterX (OSiX)]

Originally posted by Wry Cooter
and its Damn freaking nice not to have to juggle those Jewel Cases, carrying 80 CDs worth, 3 days non-stop of musical choices, in something the size of a pack of cards, with the smallest of iPods.

While im in the mood, iPods kick butt. My friend has one, I found the sound quality quite excellent, but I heard that Creative is still a but ahead. Apple would do well to incorporate a Harman/Kardon digital amp into the 2nd generation Super-ipod (we all know it's comming sooner or later)

[Kid Red]

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
The question is whether a glorified Walkman should be $250+... I guess someone has to be an industry leader, but these things we'll have reached an appropriate price point when they fall below $100...

Show you a better one for what price? Are any other players out there nearly as expensive?

I'm guessing that Apple can retain their marketshare if they keep targeting the people that are born every minute...

Wow, have you eve seen some of the high end MP3 palyers out there? Apple wouldn't be selling these left and right at Dell, Target adn Best Buy if they were bad values. And people are born every minute and every person is who apple is targeting, not sure your point there...

[olwynbag]

What if Apple would give .mac users coupons or on-line credits for sending computer buying customers "switchers" to apple stores or the on-line store.
Switchers could just give the .mac user name who referred them.
. mac user would then get a 99 dollar coupon or credit.
switch 1 pc user and .mac is paid for a year
big mouth .mac users who switch 10 pc users
could get free iBook, or really big mouths Powerbooks. . . . Sign me up .mac !!!!!!
Free salesforce for Apple, win
Reward the loyal base, win
more .mac members, win
WIN WIN WIN
Why Not????????

Go Apple

[Flickta]

New software is always great!
Just... Will there be new Hardware
to make the soft run smoothly?

Seems to be the major problem for Apple.

[jayscheuerle]

Originally posted by Kid Red
And people are born every minute and every person is who apple is targeting, not sure your point there...

Sorry, obscure reference to P.T. Barnum...

[os4]

Originally posted by insidedanshead
There's only that many more PCs out there because big corporations buy lightweight super cheap PCs to act as typewriters on steroids

Give the man a ribbon! Apple is not nearly on the fringes of relevancy as many people infer from the company's "market share" numbers.

Well done, insidedanshead

[d46799]

All the apps Apple is coming out with must be paving the way for a MacOSX version of PocketPC. Take an iPod, add a color screen, 40GB HD, mini versions of Appleworks, Addressbook, iCal, iPhoto, iTunes, Mail, and maybe the Word-killer supposedly in the works, along with an Inkwell interface. Since they're fazing out the line (?), they could hijack the name: iMac. I need one!

Can't wait till its announced at MWSF if we're lucky or MWNY if we're extremely lucky? Am I dreaming here? Seems like all the pieces are falling together. How far off must such a thing be?

This has probably all been dicussed many times before, but it just struck me like a G4 desktop or a ton a bricks, whichever weighs more.