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View Full Version : Did Apple lie? Yet more delays from Apple on 17"


nanosound
Feb 26, 2003, 04:02 PM
Has anyone read the latest article on Think Secret (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/pbdelay.html) ? Apparently Apple has kept its customers in the dark about the 17" availability. We may not really see them in the channels until April if you can believe it. And if you're ordering from a retailer, forget it. If Apple can't deliver within a quarter, they shouldn't be announcing new products plain and simple. I guess the truth was they had nothing else too exciting on the hardware side in January, so they had to announce them. But when you see a bunch on the floor, you'd think they are steps away or already are producing them. Guess not. Apple may innovate, but they keep repeating the mistakes of past--I say it's time to replace their entire production division because they get an F.

FelixDerKater
Feb 26, 2003, 04:16 PM
They probably gave the most optimistic date for being able to ship the notebooks. Like usual, their estimates are far from the truth. It really isn't Apple's fault that a company in Taiwan is having problems with the production.

railthinner
Feb 26, 2003, 04:21 PM
whatever the case, this is a drag. I imagine it will push back the release of 15" alubooks and future upgrades.

nanosound
Feb 26, 2003, 04:23 PM
But the point is, if Apple KNEW about this in January, why not tell the buying public?

We can say it's the Taiwanese plant's fault, but this problem is happening year after year. Maybe they need to look for better production facilities...or better production managers. It's a tough job market--I'm sure there are more willing and able people out there.

FelixDerKater
Feb 26, 2003, 04:25 PM
Apple has had production problems for years. I wouldn't expect them to change.

nanosound
Feb 26, 2003, 04:26 PM
So now they want to regain the 5% market share they once had. It sure looks uphill from here.

LosJackal
Feb 26, 2003, 04:28 PM
Jobs and the press release said "available in February". With that, and being one of the first to order, I would expect to be typing on one day after tomorrow at the latest. So Apple has just one more day to ship it to me in time.

But also at the end of the day I ordered, Jan 7, I received an email from the Apple store legitimately saying 7-10 weeks (since the original 30 days I saw on the Apple Store online was out of whack). That technically gives Apple until March 21st until they miss the deadline they gave me.

FelixDerKater
Feb 26, 2003, 04:29 PM
5% is a good start. In a few years, they could get up to 10%. That would be a really big milestone. When you get more volume of sales, prices can then come down. Also, with more sales, there will be more incentive for IBM or MOTO to keep up with development of the processors.

Xapplimatic
Feb 26, 2003, 04:32 PM
An Apple Store rep in San Diego told me in the store that their 17" PowerBook on display was a pre-production model, and that full production models are on hold because they are waiting for "10.2.4 +"... an upgraded version of 10.2.4 which has a special control panel for controlling the keyboard backlighting.. So it would appear this is not an actual production facility problem, but a hold up in software.. an engineering problem..

-Matt

Dont Hurt Me
Feb 26, 2003, 04:34 PM
And they are still glued to the g4! What the hell is going on over there STEVE? They have a great software division, a great style/art form. but the basic hardware division sucks! 100 & 133 busses? come on! DDR that is not fully utilized? come on! G4 chip that lack real progress! come on!They have danced and danced around the the real hardware issues and now saying they have a product but not really having it until the following QTR! COME ON! Its as bad as those European Saddam lovers!

FelixDerKater
Feb 26, 2003, 04:37 PM
They won't do anything to improve on the G4 bus speed or anything of that nature. They are just passing along products to keep people buying until they have the 970-based Macs ready to go.

iJon
Feb 26, 2003, 04:40 PM
I dont think this would be from a software problem. apple can usually fix a software problem in a day.

iJon

nanosound
Feb 26, 2003, 04:41 PM
Xapp--

Don't tell me it will be weeks until they install in a software update? That could be downloadable, no?

Dont Hurt Me
Feb 26, 2003, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by FelixDerKater
They won't do anything to improve on the G4 bus speed or anything of that nature. They are just passing along products to keep people buying until they have the 970-based Macs ready to go. And Apple scratches its head and wonders why 3% market share? WAKE UP!

Kwyjibo
Feb 26, 2003, 04:55 PM
I'm a bit confused on Apple strategies with this. we all know apple is trying to move away from the "expo" announcements yet they still announced two of their new powerbooks. I'm confused why they didn't intorduce jsut the software an mwsf and introduce the powerbooks on a tuesday like they did with everything else. They could have waited until they knew the 12pb was ready or when they had a good firm etimateo n the shipment of the 17s. I hate to say slow and steady wins the race but maybe they need to take their times iwth this stuff. Thinksecret did some great working trying to note dates based on all of their data.

mgargan1
Feb 26, 2003, 05:17 PM
the bus speed of the 17" powerbook is actually 166Mhz, because it usues PC2700 or DDR 333, so it is actually better than you think... yea, i'd like to see a better processor in there, but for a laptop of that thinkness, and size... a 1Ghz processor is excellent. Becides, PC companies use 1Ghz P3-m's in their portables. And a 1Ghz G4 beats a P3-m. I wouldn't mind seeing apple use an Intel processor. And I know many people out there hate intel, I don't... I hate Windows. Intel makes fine processors, and the P4 of today is a totally different (in terms of performance) than the original P4. Also the prescott will enhance the performance as well. But I know that apple will never use an Intel chip.

Oh, and if you disagree with what I say, please don't flame me, but respectfully disagree...

Dont Hurt Me
Feb 26, 2003, 05:24 PM
No Flames it just pisses me off that they ask such high prices for their stuff and then to keep lagging along with that darn motorola. And still DDR is not being utilized 100% They need a new chip maker! and a upgradeable imac LCD! All these darn games makes me want to scream!

Fukui
Feb 26, 2003, 05:44 PM
This is the reason why Apple wants to get away from Macworld expos, they have to launch big products on IDG's schedule NOT theirs.

Once apple can have their own shows or whatever at any time they want, they can always wait until their supplies are large enough to launch.

I think I'm beginning to dislike MW as much as steve seems to....

Maclicious
Feb 26, 2003, 07:20 PM
If the thing isn't shipped on March 20th (my pushed back date), I'm cancelling and buying a refurbished TiBook. I can't stand working 8 hours a day on my iBook any more. I'll stretch it a month, but no longer.

(Yeah, I talk big now. We'll see on March 20th, and the ship date comes and goes, what I'll really do).

zimv20
Feb 26, 2003, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
No Flames it just pisses me off that they ask such high prices for their stuff and then to keep lagging along with that darn motorola. And still DDR is not being utilized 100% They need a new chip maker! and a upgradeable imac LCD! All these darn games makes me want to scream!

sheesh. if you don't like it, go get a pc and linux or something. you cry more than my baby nephew.

yzedf
Feb 26, 2003, 09:13 PM
"year of the problems" seems more apt than "year of the notebook" at this point... :rolleyes:

iPod's when...?

Dont Hurt Me
Feb 26, 2003, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by zimv20
sheesh. if you don't like it, go get a pc and linux or something. you cry more than my baby nephew. Another Saddam lover wining about us freeing the iraqi people. Apple is and has been screwing up. this is a fact or didnt you read this post? April? they announced it in Jan. i guess this happens when you change products and manufactors! And no i wont will not and cant ever buy a crappy PC But i will cry all i want to when apple does stupid things!How olds your nephew?maybe by the time he is grown up apple will have ditched Motorola;)

LethalWolfe
Feb 26, 2003, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
And they are still glued to the g4! What the hell is going on over there STEVE? They have a great software division, a great style/art form. but the basic hardware division sucks! 100 & 133 busses? come on! DDR that is not fully utilized? come on! G4 chip that lack real progress! come on!They have danced and danced around the the real hardware issues and now saying they have a product but not really having it until the following QTR! COME ON! Its as bad as those European Saddam lovers!


Okay. Seriously. WTF do you want Apple to do, rub a magic lamp and pull a G5 (or whatever) out of thin air?

Please tell me what options Apple currently has in terms of proc's and mobo's (i.e. "real" DDR). You are bitching at the top of your lungs at the current situation so please provide viable alternatives. :)


Lethal

zimv20
Feb 26, 2003, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
Another Saddam lover wining about us freeing the iraqi people.

perhaps i speak for all of us when i say "huh?"

macphoria
Feb 26, 2003, 11:12 PM
While back, didn't Apple automatically upgrade PowerMac orders when they couldn't deliver on time? Maybe Apple will treat you guys who ordered 17inch PowerBook with 1.25Ghz G4 instead of 1Ghz.

kettle
Feb 26, 2003, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by zimv20
sheesh. if you don't like it, go get a pc and linux or something. you cry more than my baby nephew.

You ****head. If I hear another person justify a really poor show with a worse show I really will have to give up on humanity. oh wait, I already did that, well if I don't like it I can always cut my own tounge out with a pair of nail scissors just in case I upset some insane apologist who thinks I'm disgusting for expecting a few things in life to live up to a few fricking expectations. Am I wrong to think that for top dollar I deserve top service and spec. If I doubled my price would Apple deliver top service and spec. How much is it? name a price. Maybe Apple are dealing with morons. Maybe Apple employs morons. Maybe I'm a moron for waiting for a topper piece of Apple kit that really is cutting edge. Maybe I'm a moron, Apple knows this and uses this fact to maxamise their profits. Why the hell not.

zimv20
Feb 26, 2003, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by kettle
Maybe I'm a moron

nah, i really doubt that.

samsflagdrummer
Feb 27, 2003, 12:14 AM
All I want them to do is to get that damn 970 OUT THE DOOR! That, and, well, give me a free 17 inch powerbook, and a Dual 1.42 Ghz PowerMac with a huge HD screen, then let me trade that in for a 970 when it comes out...

samsflagdrummer
Feb 27, 2003, 12:15 AM
If they got a pentium crusher that would help them SOOO MUCH.

samsflagdrummer
Feb 27, 2003, 12:39 AM
btw, I completely agree with u kettle, apple users deserve a ****load more from apple than some loser who buys a dell does. We pay more so we should clearly get more.

Chuck
Feb 27, 2003, 12:41 AM
Simmer down kettle... Let's not get too abusive.

Chuck.
http://www.madebydesign.net

nanosound
Feb 27, 2003, 01:06 AM
The good news is we are one day closer to getting them.

There's that song...Les Mis I think...."One day more...another day another destiny".

bentmywookie
Feb 27, 2003, 01:29 AM
I don't get why Apple announced the 17" at mwsf. Sure it got everyone hyped up, but now its get a lot of people pissed off. The ship date right after mwsf was 6-8 weeks, that's a max of two months which I thought was a joke then, but soon these things will be going on three months with no appearance.

You can't say that it's the manufacturers' fault totally - Apple knew it would take a while, hence the 6-8 week initial ship date. Like someone said, to not get it out this quarter - ridiculous! I hope Apple offers something to all the people that have waited so long (maybe a free copy of Keynote or FCE or something, who knows).

LosJackal
Feb 27, 2003, 01:54 AM
Apple announced the 17" at MWSF because it was A Big Deal. Like the original TiBook two years before.

6-8 weeks still gives Apple one more week to meet your deadline. I personally ordered that morning and I had an email saying 7-10 weeks, which means they have until mid-March in my book.

Heart Break Kid
Feb 27, 2003, 08:59 AM
holy crap

let me tell you guys a story that'll make yer balls shrink to the size of raisins.

im sitting here and all of a sudden i get an email from apple saying they shipped a product. i nearly wet my paants only to find out its the case. :( but its oh kay. atleast now i can PRETEND i have my first apple. i couldnt really do that with a drawer full of software.

heres to playing with my imagination again

flashback to puberty

filipp
Feb 27, 2003, 09:28 AM
you're a funny guy, Kid :)

Dont Hurt Me
Feb 27, 2003, 10:16 AM
Yep my prunes have shrunk to raisens,Kettle your a scream but then everyone on this site aint right! me included!:D

Le Big Mac
Feb 27, 2003, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by FelixDerKater
They probably gave the most optimistic date for being able to ship the notebooks. Like usual, their estimates are far from the truth. It really isn't Apple's fault that a company in Taiwan is having problems with the production.

Read the article again. What's outrageous is that Apple knew, in January, that realistically it could not produce the notebooks until March, yet is was telling some people--customers and investors--that they would ship in February.

It's one thing for a company to hit production problems that delay a release. It happens with apple a lot, and is frustrating.

But this is far worse, since they knew that regardless of production problems, they could not ship until March (as they told dealers), yet told everyone else that the shipments would begin in February.

FlamDrag
Feb 27, 2003, 11:54 AM
They need to do SOMETHING to compensate for these unreal delays.

Here's my beef: I got an e-mail and an order status page that said it would ship on or before 20 Feb.

Fine, I'll wait. So then when it changes to whenever it says now I call Apple to complain. I KNOW they're not going to get it done any faster, and the dude I'm talking to can't do anything. But for $3 G's, I get to complain.

But the guy keeps stressing that the April Date is the "absolute latest" that it would ship. An "outside date" and it should ship before then.

I say "Well, I was told that 20 Feb was the absolute latest before, so why should I believe you now?" As expected, no answer to that question.

As much as I'd love to cancel my order to 'punish' Apple, I can't. I must have a new computer and it must be a Mac. So I get to sit here and take whatever abuse Apple dishes b/c I have no alternatives. Hell, my computer will be obsolete before it arrives at my door!

However, if hell freezes over and they release a 15" before my 17" ships, I'll probably get a 15 instead. The thought being that maybe their margins on the 15 are less.

I dunno - I'm just unhappy about being completely misled and lied to.

nanosound
Feb 27, 2003, 12:23 PM
"I dunno - I'm just unhappy about being completely misled and lied to."

Yeah, and the ones that have to put up with it are the Mac faithful, the ones that won;t cancel their order. You know switchers won't put up with this crap.

It's a cycle...abuse for the long wait....pleasure once we get the product
Isn't there a word for this?

Maybe we could all voice our opinions to steve@apple.com

Wren
Feb 27, 2003, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by FlamDrag
They need to do SOMETHING to compensate for these unreal delays.

Here's my beef: I got an e-mail and an order status page that said it would ship on or before 20 Feb.

Fine, I'll wait. So then when it changes to whenever it says now I call Apple to complain. I KNOW they're not going to get it done any faster, and the dude I'm talking to can't do anything. But for $3 G's, I get to complain.

But the guy keeps stressing that the April Date is the "absolute latest" that it would ship. An "outside date" and it should ship before then.

I say "Well, I was told that 20 Feb was the absolute latest before, so why should I believe you now?" As expected, no answer to that question.

As much as I'd love to cancel my order to 'punish' Apple, I can't. I must have a new computer and it must be a Mac. So I get to sit here and take whatever abuse Apple dishes b/c I have no alternatives. Hell, my computer will be obsolete before it arrives at my door!

However, if hell freezes over and they release a 15" before my 17" ships, I'll probably get a 15 instead. The thought being that maybe their margins on the 15 are less.

I dunno - I'm just unhappy about being completely misled and lied to.

:eek:
Have you seen the actual 17PB? I saw it at the Apple Store window here at the Grove and let me tell you .... it is absolutely worth the wait. The screen is stunning and the overall design is an A+. Talking bout one elegant looking laptop! You'd be sorry for getting the refurbished TBook. I'm with you, it's frustrating: My order status is on or before 26 March,but when I saw it.. i said it is definitely worth the wait!!! "Patience is bitter, but it's fruit is sweeeet".

grimmace
Feb 27, 2003, 01:31 PM
Magic Future Binoculars, Time Machine, Genie Lamp, Pixie Dust, Universal Connecting device with European adapter.... powerbook 17"

that about sums it up.

dcharris
Feb 27, 2003, 01:44 PM
This is at least entertaining - to imagine all you bruised apple heads sitting and typing in front of some of the best hardware and software available - and only seeing what it's not!

iJon
Feb 27, 2003, 04:31 PM
wow, they say the mac community is loyal. its people like think secret which hurts the mac community. wow the hate towards thinksecret now is unbelieveable.

iJon

MacFan25
Feb 27, 2003, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by LosJackal
Apple announced the 17" at MWSF because it was A Big Deal. Like the original TiBook two years before.

Yes, it was a big deal. But maybe they should have waited to announce it, so that they could handle the demands better.

Chuck
Feb 27, 2003, 04:42 PM
It's a very interesting thing to say iJon. Ideally loyalty would be reciprocal. I don't think you can blame Thinksecret for breaking a story which reveals Apple's disloyalty to it's customers (if it's true that is). If Apple aren't being loyal why do you blame Thinksecret? That's just shooting the messanger.

I for one, will never buy a PC and will always be loyal to Apple at least in terms of my custom, but I also think it's a serious issue that Steve et al would knowingly say something to the whole world when they know that it isn't true.

Interesting issue, loyalty. I'd like to hear what other people think.

Anyone?

Chuck.
http://www.madebydesign.net

rundevilrun
Feb 27, 2003, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by MacFan25
Yes, it was a big deal. But maybe they should have waited to announce it, so that they could handle the demands better.

Yes they could have. But then we would of had 2 months of whining that MWSF was a big disappointment blah blah blah.... I can understand why Apple would want to get away from those shows as a means of product announcements.

iJon
Feb 27, 2003, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by Chuck
It's a very interesting thing to say iJon. Ideally loyalty would be reciprocal. I don't think you can blame Thinksecret for breaking a story which reveals Apple's disloyalty to it's customers (if it's true that is). If Apple aren't being loyal why do you blame Thinksecret? That's just shooting the messanger.

I for one, will never buy a PC and will always be loyal to Apple at least in terms of my custom, but I also think it's a serious issue that Steve et al would knowingly say something to the whole world when they know that it isn't true.

Interesting issue, loyalty. I'd like to hear what other people think.

Anyone?

Chuck.
http://www.madebydesign.net
I'm equally as mad at the reseller who would say something like this. I kind of look at like this. Reseller stole the gun, they gave the gun to thinksecret. Thinksecret pulled the trigger. They are both irresponsible. but makes more sense for thinksecret to say it since they are a rumors site. I still think it was very disrespectful for thinksecret to do it. I really feel this rumor could have been spread without mentioning a reseller. very few people on this forum can relate to me feelings so dont try (you know who you are).

iJon

Maclicious
Feb 27, 2003, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by macphoria
While back, didn't Apple automatically upgrade PowerMac orders when they couldn't deliver on time? Maybe Apple will treat you guys who ordered 17inch PowerBook with 1.25Ghz G4 instead of 1Ghz.

I'd be all over that like feathers on a duck.