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MacRumors
Feb 28, 2003, 01:19 AM
MacBidouille (http://www.macbidouille.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2003-02-28#4867) also posts two updates with rumors of the upcoming PPC 970.

According to the rumor posts, they claim that the 970 should be available as soon as July, and expect advances to a 0.09 micron process by Spring of 2004. Meanwhile, the Power5 derivative chip should come in between 2.8-4.5 GHz.

They also report that Apple is testing prototype PowerPC970 motherboards with DDR 400, USB 2.0 and AGP 8x.



zer0army
Feb 28, 2003, 01:23 AM
here we go with more USB 2 talk:rolleyes:

Hemingray
Feb 28, 2003, 01:32 AM
GDR? I'm not familiar with that... something-data-rate? Giga? Beats me... :D

[EDIT: Oookay, gotcha. Thought I was missing out on some new technology or something!]

djkut
Feb 28, 2003, 01:34 AM
A 970 kick-off at MWNY would be incredible...even if the chips did take as long as the 17" powerbook.:rolleyes:

Anyways, I long for the 970's release, hopefully accompanied by a new case design (not a big fan of the MDD).

Why is this a Page 2 rumor? Is Mac Bidoulle a page 2 source?

t^3
Feb 28, 2003, 02:28 AM
GDR is a typo. The linked page says DDR.

macphoria
Feb 28, 2003, 02:31 AM
There's been news about G4 updates from Motorola, meaning it is more likely to see at least one more G4 related update on Macs than IBM 970 showing up in Apple products this Summer.

Victoriatus
Feb 28, 2003, 03:03 AM
Originally posted by t^3
GDR is a typo. The linked page says DDR.

Just a failed automatic translation. DDR is Deutche Democratiche Republik -- German Democratic Republic in English, therefore DDR is translated as GDR.

reedm007
Feb 28, 2003, 03:43 AM
Ha! You're right! That's hilarious! :D

MrMacMan
Feb 28, 2003, 06:12 AM
Me being a skeptic I don't see 970 released this summer.
Unless, then the shipping date is like 2-3 months. ;)

Well yeah.

Niknar
Feb 28, 2003, 06:32 AM
One word "Cool!"

So new 970's in the PowerMacs and new G4s in the iMac/eMac.

Very cool :)

Dont Hurt Me
Feb 28, 2003, 06:58 AM
Originally posted by Macrumors
MacBidouille (http://www.macbidouille.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2003-02-28#4867) also posts two updates with rumors of the upcoming PPC 970.

According to the rumor posts, they claim that the 970 should be available as soon as July, and expect advances to a 0.09 micron process by Spring of 2004. Meanwhile, the Power5 derivative chip should come in between 2.8-4.5 GHz.

They also report that Apple is testing prototype PowerPC970 motherboards with DDR 400, USB 2.0 and AGP 8x. wish i knew french so i could read the report,and how the heck does this frenchie know whats going on in california all the time before we do?Is there a secret apple lab in France? I guess they have a good source.

MacCoaster
Feb 28, 2003, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
wish i knew french so i could read the report,and how the heck does this frenchie know whats going on in california all the time before we do?Is there a secret apple lab in France? I guess they have a good source.
Alright, the original text [le texte original]:
Merci à anonyme pour l'info :)

IBM a eu d'agréables surprises lors de la première mise ne production du PPC 970. Le taux de processeurs valides et tournant 2 Ghz ou plus, a dépassé toutes leurs espérances. La puce devrait être disponible en juillet !!

Sinon pour l'avenir des puces IBM:
Au printemps 2004, elle sera déclinée en une version 970CX gravée en 0,09 Microns et réservée aux portables.
A la même période, le Power 5 tournant entre 1,5 et 2,5 Ghz sortira.
Plus loin encore, le PPC 980 sera un Power 5 light+ Altivec prévu pour fonctionner entre 2,8 et 4,5 Ghz.
Il y aura aussi super version qui sera un Power 5 non castré avec Altivec. Il s'appellera le PPC 9800.
En 2006 on en sera au PPC 990....
Your translation, a rough one [la traduction]:
Thanks to "anonymous" for the information.

IBM has some nice surprises. At the time of the first (probably samples) production of the PowerPC 970. The valid rate of the processors are turning to 2 GHz and above, exceeding all their expectations. The chip is forecasted to be available in July!

If not for the future of IBM chips: in spring 2004, PowerPC 970CX will feature the 0.09 microns and it will be reserved for the laptops. At the same period, POWER5 is turning out at between 1.5 and 2.5 GHz will come out. Further, the PowerPC 980 will be the POWER5-lite (i.e. PowerPC 970 is POWER4-lite), with Altivec. It is designed to function between 2.8 and 4.5 GHz (the PowerPC 980).

There will also be a super version which will be the POWER5, not featuring Altivec. It will be called the PowerPC 9800. In 2006, we will be getting the PowerPC 990.

No, I'm not French, but I'm learning French. :)

Mr. Anderson
Feb 28, 2003, 08:09 AM
Now that's a road map I like - seeing regular updates. Very cool, can't wait to see it.

D

howard
Feb 28, 2003, 09:40 AM
it would be neat to have the existing usb devices be able to handle usb 2. its not like it'll take up an extra plug or anything. i know its not as good as firewire but why not have both!

skunk
Feb 28, 2003, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by MacCoaster

No, I'm not French, but I'm learning French. :)

Not bad ;) Now all you have to do is get your English sorted out! :D

NSObject
Feb 28, 2003, 10:19 AM
Well, wouldn't it be nice to have these CPU's in our Macs, everyone wants faster Macs, am I right?
I believe that's the only gap to the PC-Users.
Or do we really want to wait for new Motorola CPU's, they are so far behind Intel, aren't they? I don't want to see these slow CPU's in new Macs, we need faster Chips, defenitly.

greets

pyrotoaster
Feb 28, 2003, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by djkut
...A 970 kick-off at MWNY would be incredible...
If Apple decides to participate in the summer expo.

MWNY will take place with or without a Jobsian presence, but Apple is still on the fence about whether or not it will come.
Maybe this is a sign to IBM, "if you build it, they will come... to MWNY."

Actually, what I find really interesting is that in two days we see two major stories about the 970. Imagine a Dual 2.5 GHz Powermac in July...

Kethoticus
Feb 28, 2003, 11:45 AM
Actually, what I find really interesting is that in two days we see two major stories about the 970. Imagine a Dual 2.5 GHz Powermac in July...

Imagining is about all we can do right now. I've learned from past experience that if something sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

I'm more willing to bet that IF these chips ever make it into Macs, we won't see them any sooner than MWSF2004, and even then they might top out at only 1.8GHz.

I have nothing to substantiate my opinions here. Just tired of all the hype and unrealized hopes rumors tend to provide. I certainly would love to be wrong.

nuckinfutz
Feb 28, 2003, 12:13 PM
I'm more willing to bet that IF these chips ever make it into Macs, we won't see them any sooner than MWSF2004, and even then they might top out at only 1.8GHz.


Have a little Faith Brother.

Look at some of the clues.

1. IBM opens new Fishkill Foundry 2.5Billion smackers
2. IBM plans to support Linux on PPC
3. IBM announces processor with a SIMD unit(970)
3. PPC 970 is a PowerPC. Already mostly binary compat w/apple
4. Rumors galore...TGB, Omigroups Chief etc
5. Rumors about Motorola cancelling G5 aimed at Desktop
6. IBM press release mentioning Alitvec by Trademark.
8. Apple CFO announces that Apple expects to hit 8 Billion in Revenue and increase Marketshare to 5%. A %66 increase.
9. Steve Jobs is quoted as saying "I like options"

I mean it doesn't take Blues Clues to realize that this is probably going to happen. Apple has nowhere else to go. Certainly not x86. I believe Apple and IBM have been working on this for at least a year...probably more.

djkut
Feb 28, 2003, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by pyrotoaster
.
Maybe this is a sign to IBM, "if you build it, they will come... to MWNY."


LOL!:D

That was hillarious...were you going for the field of dreams line? Anyways, great sig for yourself.

Nuc
Feb 28, 2003, 03:06 PM
I have to say that I have been disappointed with the way Apple is usually always behind the market in computer chips. I have a 500 MHz G3 PB that I bought two years ago, and it has saved my tush so many times that I can't count!
i.e.
schoolwork + no crashes = more time to play!

But I am waiting for the beast that devours the PC world.

I would like to see Apple put a chip in that completely blows away the competition, and continues to do so for many years to come. I don't believe that the PPC 970 is the solution (but I guess they have to go with what they got). I don't know how these chips compare to others but in my department we run Fortran programs that do reactor physics, which involves math which I don't want to go into. However the calculations take a week to complete with a quad processor (these are faster than Pentium 4). I would like to see this cut in half by a Apple computer. But what do I know, we could all be wrong as to what Apple decides to do next, but it better be fast!

Maz
Feb 28, 2003, 03:07 PM
I follow Macbidouille quite closely - they seem to have some good information (although as it has been pointed out, it helps if you speak French :) )

I'm not a fan of automatic translations, so for clarification, "Le taux de processeurs valides et tournant 2 Ghz ou plus, a dépassé toutes leurs espérances." means "The yield of fully functioning processors which clock at 2Ghz or more exceeded all their expectations."

Seems like they may have their production quality going nicely from the start!

MacCoaster
Feb 28, 2003, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by skunk
Not bad ;) Now all you have to do is get your English sorted out! :D
Blah, I'm from the US. I do well in US English, just don't do well in thinking about better translations from French to English as they have different orders and usages of the articles, etc. Blah!

At least mine is a lot better than the automatic translation. Plus, I know my English is many times better than some ahem southern hicks around where I live. :p
Originally posted by Maz
"The yield of fully functioning processors which clock at 2Ghz or more exceeded all their expectations."
A ha, "taux" can also be meant for "yield rate." I didn't know that. I was taught that it was primarily as "rate."

Thanks for the clarification! I'm not fluent in French ["du tout" ;)], yet... but I love to learn French. It's a great language, especially for a fifth language. :)

skunk
Feb 28, 2003, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by MacCoaster
At least mine is a lot better than the automatic translation.

I didn't mean to be mean :) You're a million times better than babelfish!

laukev7
Feb 28, 2003, 03:53 PM
Il y aura aussi super version qui sera un Power 5 non castré avec Altivec. Il s'appellera le PPC 9800.

There will also be a super version which will be the POWER5, not featuring Altivec.

Actually, the phrase should have been "Power 5 avec altivec non castré" and means that the chip will not be crippled, and will feature Altivec. The word "castré" means "crippled", not "feature".

Interesting how a translation of a badly constructed sentence can make such a difference...

GeneR
Feb 28, 2003, 05:53 PM
I could wait until July - August for a new chip release. But I just hope it's true. I think we've been pretty darn patient waiting for a new chip these last couple of years...

:D

evoluzione
Feb 28, 2003, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by zer0army
here we go with more USB 2 talk:rolleyes:



what's the big deal with USB 2?? now Apple has released FireWire800 I see no reason to NOT have USB2. It was never going to happen before the FW800 as it was a competitor to FW400. So, on all the new Macs with FW800, I would expect to see USB2 as well. (although that doesn't explain why it isn't on the 17" AiBook) :confused:

Vlade
Mar 1, 2003, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by Macrumors
PowerPC970 motherboards with DDR 400, USB 2.0 and AGP 8x.

I don't know much about that new RDRAM (or whatever its called), but I know its clocked at 1066MHZ!!! Is there any chance that apple will use this, because the processor has a 900MHZ bus, and DDR400 isn't even using half of it.

MacCoaster
Mar 1, 2003, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by Vlade
I don't know much about that new RDRAM (or whatever its called), but I know its clocked at 1066MHZ!!! Is there any chance that apple will use this, because the processor has a 900MHZ bus, and DDR400 isn't even using half of it.
From what I understand about DDR400, you can have a dual channel DDR400, and therefore effectively 800 MHz

People around the boards have claimed that the 970 wouldn't take FULL advantage of the 900 MHz bus, probably just 800 MHz because of latency and other stuff, but I know nothing about technical memory stuff.

Also, from what I understand, the PowerPC 970 has a variable FSB. At 1.8 GHz, it's 900 MHz, but at 1.4 GHz, it's 700 MHz. So, if they're going to debut at 2.5 GHz straight up, that'd be 1.25 GHz memory bandwidth.

macrumors12345
Mar 1, 2003, 05:17 PM
More exciting than the July release would be the future processor plans. A 4+ Ghz Power5 derived CPU would seriously outpace anything that Intel has planned (i.e. continually cranking the clock on the P4 core) for the next couple years.

But I honestly don't believe any of it (well, conceivably the July release is true, though even that seems too early to be credible). MacBidouille also just posted a rumor that the 17" Powerbook will use the MPC 7457. But the MPC 7457 has 512k of L2 cache (according to published Motorola docs) and the 17" PB has only 256k of L2 cache (according to published Apple specs). So the MPC 7457 rumor is also surely false, as the 17" Powerbooks almost surely use the MPC 7455, just like all the other Powerbooks. Likewise, back in November, MacBidouille said that Apple would be using 64 bit AMD chips any day now. Suffice to say, the probability of that happening is exceedingly low. I have no inside information whatsoever, but based on common sense alone I would gladly bet anyone that Apple will not be selling PowerMacs with chips called "Athlon-64" or "Opteron" in them anytime during 2003.

In short, the MacBidouille site lacks credibility. I believe they had some good predictions earlier in 2002, but their accuracy seems to have really gone down in the last few months.

Dont Hurt Me
Mar 1, 2003, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by MacCoaster
From what I understand about DDR400, you can have a dual channel DDR400, and therefore effectively 800 MHz

People around the boards have claimed that the 970 wouldn't take FULL advantage of the 900 MHz bus, probably just 800 MHz because of latency and other stuff, but I know nothing about technical memory stuff.

Also, from what I understand, the PowerPC 970 has a variable FSB. At 1.8 GHz, it's 900 MHz, but at 1.4 GHz, it's 700 MHz. So, if they're going to debut at 2.5 GHz straight up, that'd be 1.25 GHz memory bandwidth. I Strongly doubt we will see a 2.5 anytime soon. They just wanted to see how far they could go with it more then likely or a misprint. Funny how that page was pulled according to the front page of this site. i expect a summer announcement followed with the systems on the shelf by october. This could mean maybe a 1.2 g4 powermac, 1.4 970 powermac, 1.8 970 powermac. If so i would not expect market share to jump to 5%. Now if they come out and say we have the best cpu in the world and we love it so much we are sticking it in all the new imacs,the powermacs and powerbooks THAT could get them to the 5% marketshare.

Gus
Mar 2, 2003, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by MacCoaster
At least mine is a lot better than the automatic translation. Plus, I know my English is many times better than some ahem southern hicks around where I live. :p


On behalf of all present and former hicks from the South, I must warn you with the following:

Them's fightin' words!

I dun lurned mah anglish reel gud!

:)

Regards,
Gus

Frobozz
Mar 3, 2003, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by macphoria
There's been news about G4 updates from Motorola, meaning it is more likely to see at least one more G4 related update on Macs than IBM 970 showing up in Apple products this Summer.

Surely, but the G4's will likely be in portables only. This will give the 970 time to mature a revision or two in the pro line, then in January get the .09 process 970 into the powerbook, too.

Frobozz
Mar 3, 2003, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by evoluzione
what's the big deal with USB 2?? now Apple has released FireWire800 I see no reason to NOT have USB2. It was never going to happen before the FW800 as it was a competitor to FW400. So, on all the new Macs with FW800, I would expect to see USB2 as well. (although that doesn't explain why it isn't on the 17" AiBook) :confused:

There's no reason to have USB 2.0 on a Mac. You have firewire 800, which is much faster. USB is for connecting non-storage or flash-storage peripherals only. The wintel world tried ot make it compete with Firewire by beefing up it's specs. USB will only be included on a Mac if Apple sees an reason to support peripherals that can not be used on USB 1.1. Since this won't be CDRW drives, Hard drives, etc., I don't see the point. It would potentially make it a competitor to their own Firewire standard and, in turn, make USB 2.0 more accepted since it will work on most new PC's and Macs. We don't want this. It's not as good as firewire!

Frobozz
Mar 3, 2003, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
I Strongly doubt we will see a 2.5 anytime soon. They just wanted to see how far they could go with it more then likely or a misprint. Funny how that page was pulled according to the front page of this site. i expect a summer announcement followed with the systems on the shelf by october. This could mean maybe a 1.2 g4 powermac, 1.4 970 powermac, 1.8 970 powermac. If so i would not expect market share to jump to 5%. Now if they come out and say we have the best cpu in the world and we love it so much we are sticking it in all the new imacs,the powermacs and powerbooks THAT could get them to the 5% marketshare.

2 seperate sources, one being the chipmaker it's self (IBM), has stated they have been able to produce quantities of chips at 2.5 GHz. Now, Apple may not crank out the first revision at 2.5 GHz, but they thought the previous top of the line would be closer to 1.8 or 2.0 GHz. Given this, I think they will throw in a 2 GHz+ chip in the first revision. IBM does not have production problems like Motorola.

Unlike most people, I do believe Apple will intro the new machines in July, even if they don't ship until September. What other large annoucements will they have for MWNY? Software won't do it again, unless it was amazing stuff. And, yes, Apple will be at MWNY 2003. Sheesh. :-)

AndrewMT
Mar 3, 2003, 01:25 PM
I'll take my FW400 over usb 2.crash anyday.

GeneR
Mar 3, 2003, 01:43 PM
I want to believe that the speed bump to up to 4.5GHz will be available for the Mac, however, I haven't read anything here so far that confirms that the 980 is also for the Mac.

So, unless they say otherwise, I'm just going to assume that the 970 is the next big thing and the top speed is still 2.5.

However, I really hope I'm wrong. :D

lem0nayde
Mar 3, 2003, 03:38 PM
I've seen quite a few camera companies and photo storage makers coming out with USB2 and no Firewire. It would behoove Apple to offer it - whether they want to or not. It's being adopted and Mac users are going to miss out on any devices that do come out supporting it. I mean, why not have options right? We all know Firewire is better - but might as well give us both.

occam
Mar 3, 2003, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by lem0nayde
I've seen quite a few camera companies and photo storage makers coming out with USB2 and no Firewire. It would behoove Apple to offer it - whether they want to or not. It's being adopted and Mac users are going to miss out on any devices that do come out supporting it. I mean, why not have options right? We all know Firewire is better - but might as well give us both.

Moreover, the prosumer (and below) cameras are nearly universally USB. USB2 is necessary for digicam support now and increasingly in the future. (I still would buy a firewire digicam, but they're only available as pro models.)

Cheese
Mar 3, 2003, 07:50 PM
July? Of what year? Who knows what is up with the next big silicon 5v brain? As long as it doesn't try to speak french it should be all good and stuff. (LOL) From my perspective, it seems that as processors got faster, programs and their creators simply got fatter.. the dumbing down of our computer society. Remeber when a IIe was fun because we found out things that we could make it do that no one else had yet discovered? As things get more complicated, they have the appearance of being simpler, only to leave the firey question... what will you do if you had no choice but to go back to the way it used to be done? Does anyone even remember what we called the way it used to be done? We have made great progress, and we will continue to make strides towards faster, bigger, and better as long as we can, but, are there not people who think that there is more that can be done with a G3? isn't 400 MHZ enough? We don't all have Fortran running highly sophisticated calculations that take more than a week to solve, and although I sympathize with those that do, I wonder if there are yet many possibilities that can be found within the capability of lesser than top shelf processors. I still say bring on the 970 and it's baby sister or brothe too!

dongmin
Mar 4, 2003, 09:57 AM
2.0 ghz in July (introduced, not shipping) would be awesome. I was gonna say it's too optimistic--it would represent a 40%+ jump in 6 months--but given hints that IBM will introduce the 970 at up to 2.5 ghz in their blades, maybe 2.0 is actually conservative.

The big question for me is whether Apple will be bringing out dualies with the new chip. The performance gain will be significant enough that they might not have to, topping out with a single 2.0 ghz 970. But then again, maybe to counter the market perception, they'll bring out a dual 1.8 ghz system as the ultimate machine.

Or maybe, following AMD's lead, they'll introduce some totally new numbering convention, like G5 2000, the number referring to their combined SPEC scores. The new chips raise some interesting marketing questions.

barkmonster
Mar 4, 2003, 01:16 PM
I can see the powermac line up as being one of the 3 things if apple do use the PPC970 in a range of macs this year. It probably just depends on if they actually have a motherboard that works with them and if the higher clocked chips are available in high enough quantities to allow dual models.

a repeat of the digital audio line up

1.2 Ghz single
1.6 Ghz single (dual as BTO option)
1.8 Ghz single
2 Ghz single

a repeat of the first Quicksilver G4 line up

1.4Ghz single
1.8Ghz single
1.6Ghz dual

or maybe just the current one just speed bumped

1.4Ghz single
1.6Ghz dual
2Ghz dual

I just hope we do see significant speed increases similar to the difference between the final sawtooth lineup and the digital audio lineup. Jumping from 500Mhz / 100Mhz FSB to 733Mhz / 133Mhz FSB was signficant enough to make it appear to be way faster. Going from dual 1.42Ghz / 167Mhz FSB to 2GHz / 800Mhz FSB would be enough to make a lot of people very impressed. When you concider how the current Athlon systems are only around 2Ghz with a 167Mhz x 2 FSB but stand up very well against the far higher clocked P4 chips with a 133 x 4 FSB.

ffakr
Mar 4, 2003, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by Vlade
I don't know much about that new RDRAM (or whatever its called), but I know its clocked at 1066MHZ!!! Is there any chance that apple will use this, because the processor has a 900MHZ bus, and DDR400 isn't even using half of it.

RDRAM (RamBus) is 16bits wide. Dual channel RDRAM 1066 has a max bandwidth of 33Gbit or a bit over 4GB/sec (1066x16x2/1024/8)

DDR DIMMS are 64bits wide. Dual Channel DDR 333 has a max bandwidth of 41 Gbit or about 5.2 GB/sec. (333x64x2/1024/8)

RamBus has more latency also so it takes more ticks to get data in or out.
Rambus costs more, to add insult to injury.

rambus sucks. DDR is the way to go. I've got Rambus PCs in my office. they cost a [relative] fortune to upgrade because they are all dual channel and the memory is too expensive.

MrMacMan
Mar 4, 2003, 11:12 PM
RDRAM was bad the moment it hit the ran.

True DDR all the way.

Analog Kid
Mar 5, 2003, 02:05 AM
Power5:

Any thoughts on whether Apple might try to differentiate the Xserve line from the PowerMac line by debuting higher end processors (such as the Power5 derivatives, or full blown Power4s) in the Xserve before they filter down to the PowerMacs?

USB2:

USB is slightly cheaper because FW requires every peripheral to be capable of acting as a host.

USB2 is a lousy standard, and USB-on-the-go is just making matters worse. A reasonable industry would have stuck with USB1.1 for keyboards and mice and FW for dataheavy peripherals where the higher margins would dwarf the incremental silicon costs.

All of that said, I want to be able to use the newer devices even if they make the mistake of going with USB2, so Apple's going to have to support it.

GHz and Marketing:

It seems to me that Apple tries to keep a steady increase in CPU power rather than pushing the technology at every opportunity. I wonder if the marketing analysis tells them that a sudden jump in CPU performance won't bring in any more profit than ensuring steady updates over the long haul.

barkmonster
Mar 5, 2003, 05:34 AM
It seems to me that Apple tries to keep a steady increase in CPU power rather than pushing the technology at every opportunity. I wonder if the marketing analysis tells them that a sudden jump in CPU performance won't bring in any more profit than ensuring steady updates over the long haul.

I think it's half ensuring steady updates and half that they're at the mercy of Motorola.

I imagine the year the 733Mhz G4 came out that the sudden 47% leap in clockspeed wasn't the most they could have managed and they were holding back on the 867Mhz G4 so they had a definate MHz leap available for the next range.

The next range was an even bigger leap comparatively. The entry level model jumped from 466 to 733Mhz, a massive 57% increase for anyone who's priced out of having a higher end system. The dual model in the range had a 50% Mhz increase going from 533Mhz to 800Mhz aswell. This all looked very impressive on paper, especially for the prices but the G4 itself only really got a small increase in clockspeed with the fastest CPU only being 18% (867Mhz vs 733Mhz) than the previous fastest CPU.

I know Mhz isn't everything, this is proved by the fact a dual 1Ghz G4 isn't anywhere near twice the cpu power of a dual 500Mhz G4 and neither is a dual 1.25Ghz G4, only a change in CPU type can change that, without the bandwidth it needs the G4 is a pretty lame CPU, even increasing the L2 to 512K and adding a faster FSB would probably only boost things up a little.

Going from the original G4 to the current one we've only seen a few advancements. Even the big ones don't do enough to push the realworld performance up enough over the older models, let alone recent Athlon or P4 based PCs.

The Original G4 vs The Current G4

100Mhz FSB vs 167Mhz FSB :)

4 stage pipeline vs 7 stage pipeline :mad:

1Mb backside 2:1 L2 vs 256K onchip 1:1 L2 :mad:

No need for a L3 vs 1 or 2Mb L3 :mad:

4 IPC vs 5 IPC :)

533Mhz vs 1.42Ghz :)

Dont Hurt Me
Mar 5, 2003, 07:57 AM
Nice post barkmonster, one thing to point out though is that apple knew at the time that motorola wasnt going anywhere and still have not. So they had to get the most out of the little bumps. on the other hand here is the 970 which is scaling up even in testing. I have 1 of those 733's you are talking about. no l2. this thing could run at 733,800,867 just by telling the pll what to do. If apple does release the 970 this thing will scale up fast or apple could surprise everyone and introduce the higher clocks. It will boil down to what these chips cost apple, and to how many computers they think the market will take. Still find it interesting that ibm releases this post just to yank it back. intentional or mistake?

dongmin
Mar 5, 2003, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
It will boil down to what these chips cost apple, and to how many computers they think the market will take.

I agree. But we're not running Apple. Who knows what the braintrust at Apple are up to?

It seems that IBM is having better-than-expected results with yields. And that the 970/980/990 line has more headroom to scale than the G4. Given those factors, I would push the cpu speed as much as it's cost effective.

Does anyone have any solid figures on how much the 970s cost, and how it compares to the G4 7457? I read some speculation that it's cheaper b/c of the smaller dye size but I'm not so sure.

As for the leaked IBM press release, I say it's probably just the case of one IBM group (the blade group) not talking to another group (the ppc group) and not knowing what's kosher to announce to the public.

ffakr
Mar 5, 2003, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by barkmonster
I know Mhz isn't everything, this is proved by the fact a dual 1Ghz G4 isn't anywhere near twice the cpu power of a dual 500Mhz G4 and neither is a dual 1.25Ghz G4, only a change in CPU type can change that, without the bandwidth it needs the G4 is a pretty lame CPU, even increasing the L2 to 512K and adding a faster FSB would probably only boost things up a little.
how exactly do you figure that a dual 1GHz or a dual 1.25 GHz isn't twice the computer of a dual 500MHz? They are different chips. Altivec has been expanded, IPC expanded, Cache expanded. Having more steps in a pipe doesn't always mean a decrease in performance either... RISC instructions are supposed to execute in fewer steps than CISC, but many of them require multiple steps. Longer pipes have advantages other than just tending to raise clock speed. Their main detraction is that you have to backup more when a processor blows a branch prediction.
I think you should back up a blanket statement like that with some figures IMHO.
The Original G4 vs The Current G4

100Mhz FSB vs 167Mhz FSB :)
don't forget the high speed L3 bandwidth also

4 stage pipeline vs 7 stage pipeline :mad:
as stated, this isn't always a problem.
1Mb backside 2:1 L2 vs 256K onchip 1:1 L2 :mad:
this is a mis-representation. The comparison is actually 512k L2 at half proc speed vs. 256K on-die L2 cache (full speed) AND 1-2 MB of L3 cache on dedicated high speed bus.
the first G4s didn't have on die L2 and they were offered in 512K to 1024K backside L2 configs. All major consumer processors moved from larger off die L2 caches to smaller on die caches at around the same time [athlon, P3, G4]. They benefited from reduced cost AND increased performance. The data in L2 needs fast access over size in most cases. The current L3 takes the place of your beloved 1MB off die L2... so by your reasoning, the current machines should be better in every way, right?

No need for a L3 vs 1 or 2Mb L3 :mad:

This doesn't make any sense. That's like saying a newer sports car model sucked because the new one 'needs' a supercharger. L3 cache is a feature... It's not a matter of the previous processor not needing a L3. Alphas running at around 500MHz have enormous L3 caches because they increase performance.

MaxArturo
Mar 6, 2003, 04:44 PM
If it is July, it won't be a minute too soon. I've been waiting a while for this 'til I get my next mac and I guess I'll jsut have to wait with outdated hardware until it comes.

Chrisnorth
Mar 6, 2003, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by Frobozz
Software won't do it again, unless it was amazing stuff. And, yes, Apple will be at MWNY 2003. Sheesh. :-)

An Apple Office Suite would turn a few heads.

Originally posted by Analog Kid
Power5:

Any thoughts on whether Apple might try to differentiate the Xserve line from the PowerMac line by debuting higher end processors (such as the Power5 derivatives, or full blown Power4s) in the Xserve before they filter down to the PowerMacs?

970's in desktops sounds quite plausible, but Power4's in Apple servers? Isn't it possibe that this is a bit like Apple stepping on IBM turf. Would that really fly?:confused: