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MacRumors
Feb 28, 2003, 11:15 AM
MacWhispers reports (http://www.envestco2.com/macwhispers/archives/000041.php) that Apple is preparing a new enclosure: a 5x7x1 inch white plastic enclosure.<P>

It's unclear exactly what this will be used for.



DeusOmnis
Feb 28, 2003, 11:20 AM
the ipod 2, duh

DeusOmnis
Feb 28, 2003, 11:22 AM
here comes my apple pda, w00t! 5x7, eh? I hope that will fit into my pocket fine.

Niknar
Feb 28, 2003, 11:24 AM
I just marked out the size on a pice of paper and dare I say this is Tablet computer kind of size.

I have to say this is a bit vague could be anything.

NicoMan
Feb 28, 2003, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by Niknar
I just marked out the size on a pice of paper and dare I say this is Tablet computer kind of size.

I have to say this is a bit vague could be anything.

What do you mean, anything ?
We are definitely in iPod2/Newton/Tablet/"The Gizmo that everybody is going to want" territory. Simple :D

NicoMan

cr2sh
Feb 28, 2003, 11:41 AM
Let's see... it'll take 6months for apple to figure out a name and start gearing advertising. It'll take another 6months to make the final decision and start the hype. Then about a month later and they'll "introduce" it.
Oh yeh.. and then there's a 4month wait for them to actually produce the thing.

June 2004. :rolleyes:

iWalk baby!

Niknar
Feb 28, 2003, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by NicoMan
What do you mean, anything ?


I mean anything in the sence that I am leaving my options open on this.

makkystyle
Feb 28, 2003, 11:47 AM
Yeah 7 inches is way too big for an iPod. If anything those should be made smaller.

I would agree with the tablet idea. I personally would love a small handwriting and touch-pen enabled product that i could carry wih me to college for notes but that would operate all of my full featured apps.

There is a HUGE gap in the market right now: Most tablet PC's still have the same footprint as a regular laptop and PDA's are just too small for anything major. 5x7 translates to a roughly 8 inch diagonal wide screen which would be perfect for taking notes on and viewing documents!!! That is the one thing that i think PDA's have wrong. the screen should be wider than it is tall so you can view full formatting across a full line of text without having to scroll sideways or shrink it down to a microscopic unreadable size.

The only thing I can think of that is even close in size is sony's vaio with the built in webcam.

Dont Hurt Me
Feb 28, 2003, 11:51 AM
The new video ipod!

makkystyle
Feb 28, 2003, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by cr2sh
It'll take another 6months to make the final decision and start the hype. Then about a month later and they'll "introduce" it....
June 2004. :rolleyes:

iWalk baby!

If we take this rumor at face value then "being prepared for production tooling" means that the final decision has already been made and you could subtract 1 year from your estimate which means your looking at approximately mid 2003..... in time for the next MacWorld????....hmmmmm????

Kwyjibo
Feb 28, 2003, 12:03 PM
Arn, maybe this is the tablet you want so badly. I mean I could see apple making a mix between a tablet and a PDA because it would be sleek and sexy like all tis other products.

pyrotoaster
Feb 28, 2003, 12:04 PM
The Newton MessagePad 2100 measures 8.3" x 4.7" x 1.1" (H x W x D). Think iNewton...

Kwyjibo
Feb 28, 2003, 12:25 PM
I seriosuly hope that if they are remaking the newton they don't use the iNames, I hope they will let that trend go

NortonRoget
Feb 28, 2003, 01:07 PM
Whatever happened to the rumors of an apple branded digital photo frame? iFrame perhaps?

5x7 would be perfect for 4x6 photos with a half inch border. The multiple ports could be USB, firewire, various memory card slots...

matty8r
Feb 28, 2003, 01:30 PM
It will not be a palm-type device running a palm-type os. I predict that it will be a full functioning computer, with the guts of an iBook, that takes pen input, or you can plug in a monitor keyboard and mouse. It will be the ultimate digital hub. It will have dense resolution 640 X 480 and the whole top side will be a display. It has all of those ports for usb, fw, fw2, monitor, and a airport extreme built in. :D

cubist
Feb 28, 2003, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by matty8r
It will not be a palm-type device running a palm-type os. I predict that it will be a full functioning computer, with the guts of an iBook, that takes pen input, or you can plug in a monitor keyboard and mouse. It will be the ultimate digital hub. It will have dense resolution 640 X 480 and the whole top side will be a display. It has all of those ports for usb, fw, fw2, monitor, and a airport extreme built in. :D

Right. Palm is too crude. Newton, for all of its greatness, is too difficult to develop for, and segments the market. Apple cannot afford to segment the tiny development community they have. Ergo, a G3, some small amount of RAM, tiny hard drive, firewire and mac os X. Run iCal on this baby and sync it with your main Mac. Credit card is warming up for this cute little baby!

fleetwood
Feb 28, 2003, 02:29 PM
It would be nice if it was an apple branded camera with a 40GB harddrive.
Or...And the most likely would be a PDA.

NOT a new Ipod!!! Way too big.

zoetropeuk
Feb 28, 2003, 02:30 PM
Most tablet PC's still have the same footprint as a regular laptop


Most PC tablets aren't evens tablets. How on earth can you possible sell a laptop with a swivel screen as a tablet ??? The whole concept behind a tablet is keyboard-less computing.
The fujitsu and viewsonic are true tablets, the others are shamelessly trying to cash in on what little hype there is surrounding tablets at the moment.
If Apple were to release a tablet that was simply a PB with a swivel screen I'd change professions. I'd be embarrassed to use it outside of the house.
When will PC manufacturers stop releasing such hideous cheap crap ?

fleetwood
Feb 28, 2003, 02:35 PM
I think the missng link for home computing is a remote...
Hear me out.
Why not have a RF device that has the functionality of a remote control for your computer..
This is the one devise that has been completely absent from the computing industry.

Icontrol

settledown
Feb 28, 2003, 03:17 PM
I have been a frequent visitor to Macrumors, but I only read the forums I have never replied to any of them. I had to register and break my silence, when I began reading this thread.

This plastic "thingy" is propably the vent piece on the rear of an emac. You people are doing exactly what got MacWhispers into trouble for, over speculation. Sure it is fun to talk about what "future gadget" Apple might produce, but...
Someone tells you Apple is making a small plastic enclosure, and its PDA/Tablet/iPod2 frenzy.

I'm sorry I used my 1st post to yell at you, in fact I DO like to wish upon an "Apple Gadget" star, but this just went too far.

robodweeb
Feb 28, 2003, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by makkystyle
I would agree with the tablet idea. I personally would love a small handwriting and touch-pen enabled product that i could carry wih me to college for notes but that would operate all of my full featured apps.

There is a HUGE gap in the market right now

I wholeheartedly agree. I've not bought a Mac or other computer or PDA since Clinton was in office because I've been waiting for such a device and my credit card is primed to buy three. Powerbooks and iBooks are nice, but I and my family simply don't need that much power on-the-go. What we do need is some portable device that enables us to move easily between the various Mac, Windoze, and Unix-type environments we use in different roles in our lives. Such a device would make our lives easier, not a hemispherical enclosure for a computer (eg the new iMacs).

Handwriting recognition, Airport Extreme, FW400, USB2, and Bluetooth ... though I'd prefer a stylus that was also a Bluetooth pen ala OTM Technologies VPen so that a tablet like this could record writing on any surface (such as capturing the data we enter into paper forms everywhere). Make it easy to sync with my G4 digital hub, but let me move files between other platforms. Allow an external keyboard, mouse, display, microphone (for audio recording meetings, etc. hopefully linked to the notes we might be taking). Firewire cameras, telephones, etc should also be connectable. Provide enough OS X to support QuickTime, iChat, Safari, Mail, TextEdit/AppleWorks, Filemaker Pro Mobile. and Keynote.

We're waiting for you, Apple .... the ball's in your court ...

fleetwood
Feb 28, 2003, 03:21 PM
This isn't a fact forum.

We are just throwing around ideas.

gothamac
Feb 28, 2003, 03:21 PM
"I seriosuly hope that if they are remaking the newton they don't use the iNames, I hope they will let that trend go "


iSAAC

pyrotoaster
Feb 28, 2003, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by cubist
Right. Palm is too crude. Newton, for all of its greatness, is too difficult to develop for, and segments the market. Apple cannot afford to segment the tiny development community they have. Ergo, a G3, some small amount of RAM, tiny hard drive, firewire and mac os X. Run iCal on this baby and sync it with your main Mac. Credit card is warming up for this cute little baby!
Wrong.
I'll admit that Palm is really crude (I hate Grafitti!), and despite how great the Newton OS was, Apple isn't likely to jump right back to a five-year defunct system.

That said, Apple won't make a tiny G3 tablet running OS X. "Some small amount of RAM" is a very bad idea. We all know that OS X is probably the most RAM consuming OS around these days. People are complaining about the 12" AlBook's 600-some MB max.

Would there even be a real market for a product like this? You'll buy one, and I'll probably wind up buying one, and so will many other Mac-faithful. But many more might not. I don't think something like this would just have the selling power Apple would need it to have.

I think we'll see something like the Newton. The size is right, and the timing couldn't be better. More and more people are snatching up Newtons and using them.
It wouldn't run OS X, but probably an Aqua-based, X-ish system. How about Newton OS V? While I said up top that Apple shouldn't go right back to the Newton OS, they should incorporate what made it such a great system in whatever they develop.

Then again, maybe this is just a digital paperweight...:p

ELYXR
Feb 28, 2003, 03:48 PM
Let's say I'm a potential "Switcher"... but I own a Pocket PC and now I'm pretty sure I have to switch to a Palm if I want to use a Mac. This might be the determining factor in my decision to switch. It's smart of Apple to recognize this and not parlay it on to Palm... which by the way layed off 19 percent of its work force today.

MacWhispers
Feb 28, 2003, 03:53 PM
To my mind, the keenest need for ANY completely new product from Apple is for Big Steve to be able to whip it from under a cloth. hold it in the air, and ... in 30-seconds or less ... show it do one incredibly mind-bogglingly beautiful thing that no other product on the planet does. I call that, "Pow! Factor." And, it's absolutely what would be needed to successfully launch and sustain a radical new product extension.

What could be crafted into a Mac-connected mid-size tablet/handheld that would create this Pow! Factor response from potential buyers?

I'm not speculating at the moment, as I'm having, er... accuracy problems these days.:)

pyrotoaster
Feb 28, 2003, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by NortonRoget
Whatever happened to the rumors of an apple branded digital photo frame? iFrame perhaps?

5x7 would be perfect for 4x6 photos with a half inch border. The multiple ports could be USB, firewire, various memory card slots...
The reason nobody's talking about a digital picture frame any more is because whether this enclosure is for a small tablet, a cool Newton, or an interactive coaster, we're assuming it has a color screen. It would be able to display pictures very nicely, but it would do a lot of other great things, too.

cshapiro
Feb 28, 2003, 04:02 PM
pyrotoaster said that Mac OS X was probably the most ram consuming system and that a small amount of ram would not suffice

I disagree

Mac OS X is not the most ram consuming operating system.

I have a Windows XP machine (as well as a ibook) with 512 MB of RAM. On a fresh boot about 256 MB is taken up by Windows.

It may be that windows takes advantage of computers that have larger amounts of ram by running more features on a boot, but I've never heard of anything like that.

My ibook has only 128 MB of RAM and runs perfectly fine. I can tell that the RAM is only about ten percent used in the process viewer.

I think a tablet would run fine with 128 MB, which is all that is really neaded for the deivce assuming that the processor is a G3. Furthermore, no one is goiing to be running Final Cut on a Tablet.

backspinner
Feb 28, 2003, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by cshapiro
Furthermore, no one is goiing to be running Final Cut on a Tablet. never say never...

pkradd
Feb 28, 2003, 05:40 PM
Sounds like the pocketable tablet that Walt Mossberg (?) speculated on prior to MacWorld S.F.

makkystyle
Feb 28, 2003, 06:45 PM
I really do hope it is a pocketable tablet!!! That is exactly what the market needs.

On another note to a couple of people who mentioned things earlier:

Computer Remote control: Download this app - "Sony Ericsson Clicker" from salling.com It is the coolest thing I have ever seen. I can now use my T68 to control iTunes, DVD Player, PowerPoint, Keynote!!! and any other AppleScriptable program. It is f___ing amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just make sure to remove the "show song info" menu option from the iTunes menu as it made the iTunes menu not work initially, but now it works perfectly. I can lie in bed and control the music from across the room.

Also Sony Ericsson did have a bluetooth "Chatpen" coming out a while ago, though I haven't heard much about it. It was a normal pen but had bluetooth so it could send whatever you were writing on paper to a bluetooth enabled device.

pyrotoaster
Feb 28, 2003, 06:46 PM
Here's something to think about.

The way the dimensions of this enclosure are described, the thing sounds wide instead of tall, making it very unusual, considering its small size.

Now, remember the MessagePad 2000 and 2100. They let you switch from a vertical interface to a wide horizontal one.

Newton, anyone?

Aries 1B
Feb 28, 2003, 07:43 PM
The Apple PDA/Tablet show is the best entertainment on the web. Don't know what I'll do for fun if Apple actually produces one. Or several different sizes of this possible new product line.

MacWhispers: I enjoy your speculation immensely. Keep it going!

Aries 1B

MontanaMacster
Mar 1, 2003, 12:06 AM
the new apple branded firewire toothbrush. Developers in Japan have usb powered ones
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/akiba/hotline/20030222/image/tooth1.jpg

rafaelperini
Mar 1, 2003, 12:22 AM
A small size computer/PDA/tablet, airport extreme, running OSX and emmulating Palm OS. Firewire/USB. Being able to play songs/movies from its hard drive as well through rendezvous from your distant desktop.

Remember... this is the "laptop" year... this does not rule out small devices such as PDA/tablets.

Of course, this is what I WOULD like to see... not what would probably be....

adamsan
Mar 1, 2003, 05:57 AM
But if it's pda/tablet, where's the hole in the enclosure for the screen? Surely the source would have noticed if there was supposed to be a display on the thing?
I reckon it's an apple brand rendezvous enabled adsl modem/router/firewall/switch that can connect directly to the airport base station. Sticking with the 56k modem in the Airport Extreme basestations was a mistake and something like this would enable people to upgrade to BB easily. Creating a broadband network is a pain in the arse for the averager user and it's exactly the kind of thing that Apple could apply their ease of use skills to. iDSL anyone?

DeusOmnis
Mar 1, 2003, 10:27 AM
Whatver it is, it bette be 500 bucks or less, or i'm screwed.

bennetsaysargh
Mar 1, 2003, 11:19 AM
it can be a lot of things, but my most likely predictions are

1) a tablet, with usb, fw, svideo, bluetooth, running a pocket os x, and of course a color screen, with a g3 chip in it, running iApps, and syncing with other macs.

or

2) a device, with video capabilities and fw. it can connect to tv, and has a small iTunes running on it along with qt.

i am just guessing, but i have no idea what they would call it.

NicoMan
Mar 1, 2003, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by Niknar
I mean anything in the sence that I am leaving my options open on this.
Yes I know. I was being silly...

NicoMan

ennerseed
Mar 1, 2003, 12:23 PM
A Small Portable Tablet

A PCMCIA slot for wireless modems would be great, if thier were no 2.5G or 3G cellular connection capibilities. Especially with bluetooth ear pieces, It could work as a phone pretty easily.
Not to mention how perfect Watson and Sherlock woulde be for web information, with thier small interface and smaller data transfer needs.

jettredmont
Mar 1, 2003, 12:39 PM
First of all, I too wonder why the "source" didn't notice any video display opening if he noticed the port-concealing door.

However, I just wanted to add my praise for a 5x7" tablet computer. When I go to meetings, I always carry 5x7 notebooks (the old paper kind :)) The size is perfect for carrying around, and the surface is perfect for organizing notes without tempting me to write down absolutely everything. A 5x7 tablet would fit in my world much better than the larger PC tablets would.

Also, regarding the guy who thinks having a keyboard on a tablet is a horrid idea ... well, if I was to use a tablet as my secondary computer, there are many times when keyboarding is far easier and better than handwritingm, no matter how well it recognizes my chicken scratchings. In the world where the tablet PC is a secondary PC, replacing a notebook, then an option for a keyboard to be attached (bluetooth doesn't match up; imagine trying to set up a detached keyboard and display as you would a laptop ... what would hold the screen in place?) is very important. For me, if you're going to have a full-size notebook display to begin with, you aren't overly concerned with bulk and/or weight, so keeping the keyboard hidden but permanently attached isn't that big of a deal.

On a 5x7 tablet, on the other hand, a permanently-attached keyboard might be a problem. Something more akin to the various Palm keyboards would be more appropriate, or perhaps even a "slide-out" keyboard "drawer" of sorts, although that relegates you to pencil-eraser key-pecking.

There was a discussion here a while back about a "peripheral" type of tablet - one which isn't necessarily a general-purpose computer in and of itself, but rather a detachable extension of your primary computer that would synch up with your main computer either after the fact (like current Palms/PocketPCs) or in real time via airport. Given a 5x7 form factor, this paradigm is even more appropriate, both because it is difficult to fit a full-featured notebook in a 5x7 form factor, and because at least in an office environment the ultra-portability and yet big-enough-to-write-on size, paired with the connectivity required to use and drive a full-fledged computer back at your desk, makes it a perfect note-taking machine. Note, of course, that the TabletPC is targetted at just this market: note-taking.

On the other hand, whipping out your 5x7 tablet on the subway would also be nice, and the peripheral concept isn't as good for such a device. There, you're unlikely to be able to directly connect to your desktop in realtime, and really need enough power "under the hood" to do useful work. However, the design constraints for a 5x7, cool-to-the-touch form factor might be too much to allow for OS X power, and screen-size constraints would make the OS X interface as awkward on the screen as the XP-ish interface is on PocketPCs.

Overall, far too little information to say anything for sure. But I'd love to see something along either of these lines coming later this year ...

Skelator
Mar 1, 2003, 01:45 PM
little off topic, but apple should really make some bluetooth based wireless headphones for the ipod!

DavPeanut
Mar 1, 2003, 04:24 PM
I have an iBook right now, and I use it at school. (I know, its weird for a high schooler to use one, but I have ADHD and I also have problems writing fast enough to take notes that I can read the next day.) I like my iBook because it has a keyboard, but there have been many times that I would have liked to have it with me, but it was too clunky. A 5x7 tablet isn't wonderful for writing reports or taking in depth notes, but it would be wonderful for presenting things to people for their criticing. I wear UFO pants (http://www.villagestreetwear.com/ufopants.html), and I could easily fit a 5x7 tablet in my pocket. It would be the perfect device. It would be especially sweet if Apple got durable touch LCD screens so that you wouldn't have to keep them in a case. Also, It would be amazing if they were made out of Aluminum. That would separate them from the iPods.

Teqanjel
Mar 1, 2003, 06:42 PM
Hi, all!

Been reading with interest all these hypotheses -- and unbridled hopes ;) -- and thought I'd add a couple more things to ponder on.

- I think the most damning evidence against the "new plastic enclosure" being a long-awaited Apple tablet or PDA is what wasn't said -- as mentioned earlier, the source noticed such things as a door and holes for ports, but no place for a screen was obvious enough to stand out to him/her. I can think of several explanations for this, but they'd be more easily described with a diagram.

- Let's assume, though, that it is meant to house our dream gadget. Most comments envision an Apple-branded version of capabilities which are already out there: PDA functionality, tablet PC uses, a more compact version of what a laptop does. But Apple historically "thinks differently", and that is why Steve Jobs has said time and again that there will be no Apple PDA -- why just do Apple-istically what everyone else does?

- Apple certainly does not want to take market share away from their other product lines. As evidenced by some of the comments above, a G3-powered tablet PC could easily satisfy some users' needs, and might cut into sale of 12" PowerBooks and iBooks. Ideally, Apple would want customers to want both a 12" laptop and "this new product".

- Add in a trend: Apple's marketing strategy the last couple of years is geared toward moving PC users toward Apple products. The iPod was innovative enough to make even the most die-hard PC users take a closer look at Apple. My former roommate "confessed" to me recently that she had broken down and bought an iPod even though she hates Macs (my constant comparisons of Mac and Windows probably didn't help ;) ).

- Add in another trend: With Keynote and Safari, we've just seen Apple making serious inroads producing software which competes directly against Windows standbys. They will probably continue to do this with upgraded versions of AppleWorks and who knows what else. By their own admission, Apple plans to release more software than they have previously.

So put this all together and what do you get?
- A product which opens up new possibilities, not just doing the same-old-things better;
- A product which encourages purchase by both Mac and PC users; and,
- A product which could introduce new Apple-branded software.

I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that this new enclosure is meant to house a portable computer which not only serves as a PDA and tablet, but which incorporates Apple-branded speech recognition software. Via AirPort Extreme or wired network, it can also serve as a remote console to the user's main desktop or laptop, regardless of whether that computer is Mac OS or Windows driven.

Well, I can dream, can't I? :D

~ Teqanjel

bignumbers
Mar 1, 2003, 08:05 PM
I hope it's a tablet. It's just about the right size. Perfect would be just larger than an 8.5x5.5 screen, half a letter-size page. A little smaller is fine.

However I think it's just a part of something else. Someone said the back of an eMac. Could be, although I haven't seen one. Or maybe it's an external case of some sort, just a FW/video interface or something more interesting along those lines.

I just don't see Apple coming out with ANOTHER line of products in this economy.

cycle
Mar 1, 2003, 09:54 PM
yep..the ibook as we know it will go away

5by7 and one inch thick is enough to include dvd drive

i hope we do not have to wait until july..but its obvious in some way

ohh this is so sweet :p look! :p no..i mean the smiley.. ;)

Teqanjel
Mar 1, 2003, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by cycle
5by7 and one inch thick is enough to include dvd drive

...but not much else, I'm afraid.

Regarding a new product being released "in this economy"...if there is such a thing, it was probably conceived and designed "in that economy" -- the one with jobs and annual raises and prospects for the near future.

Just a thought: at 5x7 inches, would such a product be called an iPaperbackBook? ;)

Still dreaming,
Teqanjel

synp
Mar 2, 2003, 04:05 AM
Here's my prediction:

A 5"x7" enclosure with a 4"x6" screen for displaying pictures. It will also be able to connect via USB or firewire to a digicam/digivideo to download the pics.

Used mainly as a buffer from the camera's 128MB-1GB picture card. The 40 GB drive will hold enough pictures until you get home to your computer. Only the Terapin Mine has this feature now, and it doesn't have a screen.

This is a good companion for a digital camera, and alleviates one of the major impediments to digital photography.

Later they will add some more stuff, such as iPod functionality, address book integration, wireless email, handwriting recognition for commenting on photos, but the above is the big thing.

boobers
Mar 2, 2003, 04:23 AM
Apple needs to use this:

http://www.canesta.com/products.htm

this would be very cool.

Ervino
Mar 2, 2003, 04:39 AM
3 *concrete facts* to think about, speaking of a possible new 4x7x1" Apple iPod2/Tablet/PDA/whatever:

1) AirPort Extreme card size is much smaller than normail AirPort one.

2) This Spring are 5 years from official Newton demise (Spring 1998).

3) This Summer are 10 years from Newton introduction (Summer 1993).

so...

1 *personal comment*: what better moment to introduce a new Apple ipod2/Tablet/PDA/whatever than Summer 2003?

And, in this way, recapture one-hand the attention of the media and of the whole Newton Community (I still get 10s of post daily from the NewtonTalk Mailing List...).

Cheers
Ervino

Over Achiever
Mar 2, 2003, 08:35 AM
Originally posted by cshapiro
Mac OS X is not the most ram consuming operating system.

I have a Windows XP machine (as well as a ibook) with 512 MB of RAM. On a fresh boot about 256 MB is taken up by Windows.

It may be that windows takes advantage of computers that have larger amounts of ram by running more features on a boot, but I've never heard of anything like that.

My ibook has only 128 MB of RAM and runs perfectly fine. I can tell that the RAM is only about ten percent used in the process viewer.

I had 64 MB of ram in my laptop, and XP ran just fine. I have since added a 128 MB chip since I run a lot of programs at the same time...again, no problems.

I dunno how much RAM windows uses, since I haven't restarted my computer in weeks now, but right now explorer.exe is using 10 MB of ram.

jettredmont
Mar 2, 2003, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by Over Achiever
I had 64 MB of ram in my laptop, and XP ran just fine. I have since added a 128 MB chip since I run a lot of programs at the same time...again, no problems.

I dunno how much RAM windows uses, since I haven't restarted my computer in weeks now, but right now explorer.exe is using 10 MB of ram.

Yes, thanks to the miracle of paging files aka virtual memory. I also have XP on my laptop, 128MB RAM, and Task Manager shows that I am using (with only Phoenix open, 16.2MB usage, aside from the "usual" bevy of Win XP processes) 139MB of system+pagefile memory. I know from experience that at startup this figure is just over 120MB.

Windows XP is a massive memory hog. Which is why, if you look into just about any PC site's or magazine's XP tune-up recommendations, #1 is "get at least 512MB RAM!"

On the other hand, so is OS X. OS X may use less memory doing "nothing", but the way its Window Server is designed (it keeps the contents of each window, even if the window is not shown, in memory 100% of the time), memory usage increases dramatically with each new window open. XP, like all Windows, only keeps the current composited image in memory at once, leading to a more-or-less constant GDI memory usage, and asks apps to redraw themselves when the user moves windows around on-screen. The reason for X's approach is that your display response does not depend upon individual applications' response to the "redraw window" message, leading to more responsive display of moving windows.

bennetsaysargh
Mar 2, 2003, 09:56 AM
3 *concrete facts* to think about, speaking of a possible new 4x7x1" Apple iPod2/Tablet/PDA/whatever:

1) AirPort Extreme card size is much smaller than normail AirPort one.

2) This Spring are 5 years from official Newton demise (Spring 1998).

3) This Summer are 10 years from Newton introduction (Summer 1993).



does anyone have the measurements for a newton?
because now i think that there might be an iNewton or whatever they will call it

pyrotoaster
Mar 2, 2003, 10:40 AM
A few things I want to comment on:
Originally posted by synp
A 5"x7" enclosure with a 4"x6" screen for displaying pictures. It will also be able to connect via USB or firewire to a digicam/digivideo to download the pics.

This is a good companion for a digital camera, and alleviates one of the major impediments to digital photography.
No digital picture frame! It would be pointless. You could stick a color screen and a USB port on the iPod and it would do the same thing, except smaller.
Why make something that can only display pictures? It could do many other things as well. If Apple is going to make anything to store digital pics, it might as well be a hard drive based camera.
Originally posted by Ervino
This Spring are 5 years from official Newton demise (Spring 1998)
Actually, it was five years ago last Thursday.
Originally posted by bennetsaysargh
does anyone have the measurements for a newton?
because now i think that there might be an iNewton or whatever they will call it
Why yes I do! The MP2000 and 2100 measured 8.3 x 4.7 x 1.1. Similar indeed.

I like the whole iNewton idea, and it fits right into the whole mini-tablet idea. One in same.

Ervino
Mar 2, 2003, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by pyrotoaster
Actually, it was five years ago last Thursday.

I apologize: I was going by memory... ;-)

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
Why yes I do! The MP2000 and 2100 measured 8.3 x 4.7 x 1.1. Similar indeed.

I like the whole iNewton idea, and it fits right into the whole mini-tablet idea. One in same.

AND we can re-use our old Newton-branded MP2000/2100 leather cases for the new iWhatever! :-)))

Cheers
Ervino

cubist
Mar 2, 2003, 11:08 AM
Hey guys, this might just be some kind of external drive case. But it's fun to dream.

As for the guy with Windows CE palmtop, I think there is software to sync it under Mac OS X. Google for it.

Huge amounts of open-source software are being ported to Mac these days -- it's very easy -- so if you see something you like for Linux, you can probably get it running. That's not true of Windows XP, of course.

Mac has the best of the commercial software, and the best of the open-source software -- both on one easy-to-use platform.

Ervino
Mar 2, 2003, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by cubist
Hey guys, this might just be some kind of external drive case. But it's fun to dream.



Naa... I bet on the iPad!

Jobs loves too much the "stage coups" to let slip the 10 years Newt introduction anniversary without showing how he is sooooo much smarter than John Sculley... :-)))

And, after all, back in 1998, Jobs *formally promised* that he was retaking the Newton in Apple (after closing the Newton-Inc. spin-off) to "better develop the technology".

And Jobs *never* lies on products, it isn't? ;-)

Cheers
Ervino

boobers
Mar 2, 2003, 02:38 PM
http://www.canesta.com/products.htm

a good small solution for a portable..

cycle
Mar 2, 2003, 05:15 PM
its the new powermac enclosure

...right away for the introduction of the 970 chip :p

tehehee :D

cgmpowers
Mar 2, 2003, 05:27 PM
I remember seeing a rumor about an updating photo frame sometime last year when the 20 gb iPod was introduced.

With the recent news about Tivo and Apple...it makes me think that its more likely a self updating picture frame than a PDA or tablet type device..

Although...I'd like both of these...a photo frame isn't very useful to me...I would want a tablet much more...

starlightmica
Mar 3, 2003, 08:06 AM
is that this 5x7x1" plastic dongle is some sort of sex toy.

I mean, what do you expect? It's from MacWhispers/DVForge/Jack Campbell!

ipiloot
Mar 3, 2003, 10:06 AM
If there's anyone, who still want's the picture storage/viewer box - go buy one:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0303/03030217smartdiskflashtrax.asp

pyrotoaster
Mar 3, 2003, 11:14 AM
Why would Apple make a digital picture frame when they could make a mini-tablet or an iNewton or USB-powered paperweight that could display the pictures as well as doing dozens of other things (like keeping your papers from blowing away)?

It just doesn't make sense. Apple will not build a digital picture frame. A new hard drive based digital camera is far more likely, and that's not likely at all (although it would be really cool).

SonicSamurai
Mar 3, 2003, 11:26 AM
and SettleDown gets ignored.

Come on guys. Sounds like a battery enclosure of some sort to me. At the most, it looks like Apple is going to start selling external SuperDrives and include 3rd party DVD-R support with iDVD. (they were just waiting unitl they could make some $$$ on it for themselves.....)

This, to me, seems to be the best explaination.
1) People trust Apple 1st party stuff and will trust an external SuperDrive.
2) Apple can lace it up with FireWire 800 compatibility easily
3) Scince it's already been adapted to the PBG4, we KNOW they can make it 1 inch thin a portable.
4) Now Apple will be even MORE famous for the SuperDrive, and can possibly even market it to other users (PC,Linux,Unix, etc...)

iNewton...come on, gimmie a break. If anything, they are going to try to keep adding orginizer/palm features to the iPod ! Why do you think they gave it such a bland, general name. It's multifunctional, get it.;)

If anything, Apple should go back to making colored iBooks and iPods. I would love them to death if they made color iPods.

HasanDaddy
Mar 3, 2003, 11:32 AM
I sure hope this is an iTablet

I already backup my documents and pictures on an iPod, in addition to my tunes

if I could access EVERYTHING (pics, documents, tunes, movies?) over one small iDevice, then I would TOTALLY buy it!

make it so, Apple!

pyrotoaster
Mar 3, 2003, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by SonicSamurai
iNewton...come on, gimmie a break. If anything, they are going to try to keep adding orginizer/palm features to the iPod ! Why do you think they gave it such a bland, general name. It's multifunctional, get it.
What good is having iCal on my iPod if I can't enter things?!
The iPod's PDA features are hardly spectacular, and there's no way to reasonably turn the iPod into a PDA device without a major design change. Besides the current iPod is about as multi-functional as it can be.

I think an iNewton device, which would be just like a mini-tablet, makes sense. The demand exists, and so does the technology to make it great.

Besides, isn't the fifth anniversary the one where you bury the hatchet and bring back the Newton?

moosecat
Mar 3, 2003, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by SonicSamurai
Come on guys. Sounds like a battery enclosure of some sort to me. At the most, it looks like Apple is going to start selling external SuperDrives and include 3rd party DVD-R support with iDVD. (they were just waiting unitl they could make some $$$ on it for themselves.....)

This, to me, seems to be the best explaination.
1) People trust Apple 1st party stuff and will trust an external SuperDrive.
2) Apple can lace it up with FireWire 800 compatibility easily
3) Scince it's already been adapted to the PBG4, we KNOW they can make it 1 inch thin a portable.
4) Now Apple will be even MORE famous for the SuperDrive, and can possibly even market it to other users (PC,Linux,Unix, etc...)

Damn you and your so-called "logic"! Sensible thinking has no place on a Mac rumor message board.

As reluctant as I am to say it, I agree. Without any info about what goes inside, or why no screen opening has been mentioned, it's most likely to be an external drive or power supply of some sort.

cgmpowers
Mar 3, 2003, 12:08 PM
In addition to being able to add iCal data on my iPod or a similiar PDA device... I'd also really like a way to update my iCal dates on my .Mac account.

One of the reasons I really like(d) the Yahoo calendar set up was I can sync my Office on my PC, my Palm device AND the web site. So if I update or add a date on the Internet from outside the office/or home...it'll update everything the next time I sync.

I lost that capability by adopting the iCal and moving one step further away from the PC.. Its been a limiting problem but I would hope Apple sometime SOON fixes that gap..

Teqanjel
Mar 3, 2003, 12:25 PM
Two subtle points to ponder on:

- The "source" noted things like a door over openings for ports, but made no mention of an "opening" for a screen. Clearly if, say, one surface of this device were 5"x7" and there were a 4.5"x6.5" opening, it would have been mentioned -- I think we can agree on that. But what if it were a 5-sided enclosure, i.e., 4 sides, bottom, and a non-existent top. Would you necessarily perceive the missing sixth side as an "opening", enough so to mention it? Probably not. Hypothesis: a screen for such a device is part of a (burnished metal?) module which sits inside the 5-sided enclosure, yielding an iWhatever with white plastic all around and a metal top surface with a screen (nice touch!). (And just as easily, of course, it could be a six-sided plastic enclosure for a Superdrive -- just offering up some other ways of thinking of this. :) )

- Whatever those ports are, the designer felt it was appropriate to place them behind a door. Why? Ports which are in use constantly or most of the time are usually not placed behind protective doors -- you wouldn't want to have to keep opening and closing the door, or need to leave it open. Even the iBook's ports are always exposed. Chances are, these ports are meant to be used "occasionally" and protected the rest of the time. This would lean one away from the SuperDrive theory -- its ports would, by design, need to be accessed virtually all the time. Also, the designer wanted to protect the ports from...what? Damage while being carried/moved from one place to another? Most hardware which stays in one place wouldn't require such protection.

So riddle me this...what kind of device would have multiple ports which, most of the time, are not being used? What kind of device would, by design, be moved from one place to another fairly frequently as part of its function?

TMA
Mar 3, 2003, 01:09 PM
I was reading around some forums on thinksecret (think it was thinksecret) and I came accross this image:

http://www.zen10308.zen.co.uk/whatsits/6524powerpod.jpg

Yeah its bad quality and i'm fairly sure it's just someones idea of a joke or something complete unrelated. It looks like someones dissasembled an iPod and taken a purposefully bad shot of it. Either that or it's a piece of packaging perhaps? Anyone know where it came from and what it is supposed to be?

If we were to see an iPod/Newton PDA gadget I think this would be the form factor i'd like it to be.

iAryeh
Mar 3, 2003, 01:26 PM
I think that this is going to be Steve Job's iClicker. You know, the ne he uses with Keynote at the MacWorld Expos... It could b e fun...

-hh
Mar 3, 2003, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by Teqanjel
Two subtle points to ponder on:

- The "source" noted things like a door over openings for ports, but made no mention of an "opening" for a screen...

- Whatever those ports are, the designer felt it was appropriate to place them behind a door. Why? ...

So riddle me this...what kind of device would have multiple ports which, most of the time, are not being used? What kind of device would, by design, be moved from one place to another fairly frequently as part of its function?

And add to that: What kind of device would non-Mac PC owners find irresitable enough to want to buy?

Overall, a 5x7x1 form factor is starting to get pretty big (it won't fit in my shirt pocket), and as you fill up the enclosure, its going to start to get pretty heavy too (contrast it with the weight of an old Apple 3.5" floppy drive: 4x6x1).

I think we can pretty much discount and eliminate most plug-in peripherals, such as a Superdrive, etc, particularly since we already know that that the common PC ownership trait is to buy on price.

Perhaps a better question to ask ourselves is: what existing consumer electronics are out there that are roughly this form factor? The only thing I came up with is a Digital Video camera, such as the sweet little $1200 ones that Sony currently offers.

That application would appeal to non-Mac users, it would explain why the ports are hidden behind a door, and the form factor's approximately correct. Apple could use an internal 20-40MB hard drive in lieu of DV tape, which elminates a lot of moving parts, and is probably faster to download via Firewire800. The open side could be where the battery pack attaches, and the only open question is: "where's the lens?"

Well, I thought I had read that this was a clear enclosure, somewhere. As such, you don't need to have a hole drilled through it for optics.

The Apple "iVideo" camera, with nearly no moving parts.


-hh

boobers
Mar 3, 2003, 06:07 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TMA
[B]I was reading around some forums on thinksecret (think it was thinksecret) and I came accross this image:

http://www.zen10308.zen.co.uk/whatsits/6524powerpod.jpg

Thats an easy one
http://www.oqo.com

IJ Reilly
Mar 3, 2003, 06:52 PM
With the eMac on the way out, Apple needs to fill the desktop low end with a small, inexpensive, modular OSX box. This is it! I'm positive!

Well, hopeful anyway. :p

ennerseed
Mar 3, 2003, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by boobers
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TMA
[B]I was reading around some forums on thinksecret (think it was thinksecret) and I came accross this image:

http://www.zen10308.zen.co.uk/whatsits/6524powerpod.jpg

Thats an easy one
http://www.oqo.com

Wrong
I don't know what it is but, neither do you.

marcsiry
Mar 3, 2003, 10:19 PM
Now that Slashdot posts are credible sources, here's something I picked up on today's discussion about OLEDs (Organic Light Emitting Displays):

his may be the first Kodak product that uses their own OLED technology, but does anyone remember the article (I think it was from CNET) which contained a quote by a Kodak executive saying they were already shipping 8-inch OLED displays in quantities to a "manufacturer" who they couldn't disclose? A very high resolution screen that would be used in a product that they didn't know much about but that would be a revolutionary one and be released in the first half of 2003?

Somehow, the article has vanished. Even from Google.


Seems like an 8" diagonal screen would fit perfectly into an, oh, I don't know....FIVE BY SEVEN ENCLOSURE? </church lady>

A lack of a backlight would really help with battery life.

Aries 1B
Mar 3, 2003, 10:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by bennetsaysargh
>>>>>does anyone have the measurements for a newton?
because now i think that there might be an iNewton or whatever they will call it<<<<<

The MP 100 (one of which I have) is about 4" by ahhhbout 6 inches.

It feels... right.

Sam's Club has/had notebooks called "Omni" that were exactly 5 x7 inches. Very convenient, fit the hand well, more comfortable than an 8.5 by 11 inch notebook. Very easy to balance standing up, too.

Just sorta wonder if APPL was 'prepping the market' somehow.:)

Aries 1B

rainman::|:|
Mar 4, 2003, 12:07 AM
i think the original report was that Kodak was going to ship 2" OLED screens, not 8"

oleds are still too expensive in large sizes for things like this. granted i'd love to see it, but...

pnw

pyrotoaster
Mar 4, 2003, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by paulwhannel
oleds are still too expensive in large sizes for things like this. granted i'd love to see it, but...
Then again, Apple did stumble upon some ubercheap LCDs... If the 23" HD Cinema Display can drop $1500 in one day, I'd say anything is possible!

senjaz
Mar 4, 2003, 05:02 AM
Originally posted by fleetwood
I think the missng link for home computing is a remote...
Hear me out.
Why not have a RF device that has the functionality of a remote control for your computer..
This is the one devise that has been completely absent from the computing industry.

Icontrol

It already exists, it's called a bluetooth adapter, a T68i and a program called Sony Ericsson Clicker (http://homepage.mac.com/jonassalling/Shareware/Clicker/).

And yes it does rock.

Chimaera
Mar 4, 2003, 09:21 AM
While I have absolutely no faith in the idea of Apple releasing a tablet, this is what I'd like to see in it if they did:-

CompactFlash type 1/2 slot (be a nice companion to digital camera)
G3 (gobi?) proc
decent amount of RAM - 256 or 512
PDA-style docking via iSync and cradle
Apple Remote Desktop License for setting up and running the machine at home from another mac
Airport Extreme
IR port
iPod HDD
*NO* FW800 - would push costs up needlessly
OSX with modified interface for such a small screen - at most it would be around 550 pixels across at the narrowest point.

In theory theres a lot they could do with the system - for example they could run OSX on the thing with a custom interface program over the top for ease of use while mobile, or allow people to run in native OSX if they choose... - it could be used as a PDA, a mobile media machine, even for dumping photos off their cameras.

The main reason I don't see such a thing happening is battery life. If they can come up with something good that is essentially like an OQO (www.oqo.com) running OSX (preferably with some sort of optional PDA interface available if you want it) with a decent battery life then I for one would buy it. But, like I said I can't see it happening, and unless the price is somewhere in the region of the bottom-end iBook I can't see it selling either...

However, this is one time I would love to be proved wrong.

Tablet PCs have their uses, its just not what a lot of people seem to think they are :)

n00bieriffic
Mar 4, 2003, 11:00 AM
Well, from the geek standpoint: Yay! Video ipod!

But from the more realistic standpoint: Yay! Apple branded firewire superdrive. If you think about it, the superdrive is the only major hardware that was dropped from the new towers at the retail level.

Frobozz
Mar 4, 2003, 02:00 PM
5 x 7 x 1 is the exact right size to hold a standard photo with some internal electonics.

ginjg
Mar 4, 2003, 05:23 PM
a couple months back there were items on MacNN and other sites about Apple being granted a patent for color display on exterior case. That could explain the lack of screen.

I hope it's a color ipod/newton combo. I know we'd by 12 right off the bat.

DeusOmnis
Mar 4, 2003, 08:19 PM
Time moves so slow when one is waiting for apple to release new products.

dickrichie
Mar 5, 2003, 07:32 AM
could it be possible that this is going to just be a box used in the Apple Stores? If anyone has even been in them everything is white and specially made for or by apple. The only hting that does not match the decor is the small black box you sign your credit card purchases on. i would love it to be a video ipod/tablet thingy but in all honesty I wonder if we are just all Rumor crazy.

TMA
Mar 5, 2003, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by dickrichie
could it be possible that this is going to just be a box used in the Apple Stores? If anyone has even been in them everything is white and specially made for or by apple. The only hting that does not match the decor is the small black box you sign your credit card purchases on. i would love it to be a video ipod/tablet thingy but in all honesty I wonder if we are just all Rumor crazy.

Of coarse we're all Rumor crazy :) Aint that what this site is for?

brockway
Mar 5, 2003, 05:04 PM
This is apple new portable video player, allowing users to view mpeg4 movies (http://www.apple.com/mpeg4/). Soon these type devices will be as common as mp3 players are now. There are already several portable video players available now and several planned to be released soon:
(http://archos.com/lang=en/products/prw_500375.html?country=us)
(http://www.designinteract.com/news/11086.html).

As with the mp3 players, it will take Apple to show other manufacturers how to do it the right way (just look at the link to the "less than attractive" design by Archos). The device will use Quicktime 6.

This device is a logical next step for Apple. At some later point they will offer a completely different device that will be a full fledged tablet, when better display and battery technology will allow for a thinner device than the clunky tablets we see in the PC world. This first iPod-like video device will, however, have it's focus on video, just as the iPod does with music. There will also be licensing agreements with content providers for movies and video, similar to what we will be seeing announced soon for music with iTunes and iPod.

There you have it.

See also these links:
http://news.com.com/2100-1040-979747.html

http://windowsfordevices.deviceforge.com/news/NS9077555094.html

mangoman
Mar 5, 2003, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by brockway
There you have it.

:p

Your confidence is impressive, Grasshopper.

ejb190
Mar 6, 2003, 08:38 AM
Maybe I am stating the obvious, but what if this is just an external drive of some sort? My Zip drive is 4.5" x 6.5" x .75"

MaxArturo
Mar 6, 2003, 04:43 PM
I know that lots of times for even just R&D purposes they will create and produce large amounts of new cases or anything like that just for mass testing. I wouldn't completely rule out the idea of R&D.

pk22901
Mar 7, 2003, 09:07 PM
I want to have these features in this enclosure:

- OS X running on a 30GB+ Disk w/ 256 mb RAM.

- Inkwell, iLife, whatever...., iSynch....

- Cell phone, music, movies via speakerphone and mike or bluetoothed headset.

- TiVo capabilities

--------------------------

Multi-useful as in taking a call, choosing to record it, link recording to datebook....

Or recording a business mtg while taking notes and watching a Keynote presentation w/ spreadsheets. Print via rendezvous! Fax via cell phone!

What would you pay for this? What do you think
Apple would have to charge?

- let the good times roll.

mangoman
Mar 7, 2003, 09:09 PM
I'd pay a lot. Upwards of a grand.

But that's me.

chewbaccapits
Mar 9, 2003, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by Chimaera
"...If they can come up with something good that is essentially like an OQO (www.oqo.com) running OSX (preferably with some sort of optional PDA interface available if you want it) with a decent battery life then I for one would buy it.)


BTW, when the hell is this thing going to come out?...The first half of 2003? It already seems OLD to me...BOOO..

Royal Pineapple
Mar 20, 2003, 02:34 AM
now this has almost nothing to do with the box itself but the tablet.
if they were to take an ibook
and replace thekeybord and trackpad area with the screen so it is one peice with screen on the top, keep all/most of the components the same motherboard/ports/optical drive
and you could easlly put it on a stand and attach a keybord and mouse (bluetooth) if you wanted a real computer, but for sitting on the couch, surfing the web via your airport extreem, using a combonation of inkwell and/or an onscreen keybord a la palm this would be perfect. now make it in 12" 14" and new 8" size and youve got yourself a product

cgmpowers
Mar 20, 2003, 08:23 AM
When i first saw the 17" Powerbook, I wondered if the screen could flip and close to display up...and turn into a tablet. I still think it could be possible someday and that's my hope at least that someday they just turn the powerbook into having tablet capabilities....touch screen and closing/flip screen.

Christopher

Originally posted by chewbaccapits
BTW, when the hell is this thing going to come out?...The first half of 2003? It already seems OLD to me...BOOO..