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krohde
Mar 2, 2003, 12:50 PM
Hi guys.

i am close to buying a 12" AluPB and i was wondering if you guys have had any problems and wouldnt recommend it. I heard the left hand corner gets very hot. are there any other things that you have noticed and would like to tell me and the other users? I am also concerned about the performance since it doesnt include an L3 cache. What are your feels?

Thanks

Ken

Kwyjibo
Mar 2, 2003, 01:09 PM
your post title is a bit misleading, perhaps next time "Questions for twelve in PowerBook owners" or "Help Needed from 12in PowerBook Owner"

iJon
Mar 2, 2003, 01:37 PM
the left palm is a problem if your a little wuss, other than that i dont find any problems. i love mine and i wouldnt trade it for anything.

iJon

applefan
Mar 2, 2003, 01:53 PM
I agree with iJon. The left palm gets warm not hot. It's the best laptop I've owned. I have no complaints at all.

yogi477
Mar 2, 2003, 03:04 PM
I too agree with iJon, the keyboard is also a joy to use and it is fantastically portable. iJon what is the time yours takes to go from chime to aqua login screen?

leprechaunG4
Mar 2, 2003, 03:13 PM
My opinions thus far can be found in this thread:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21021

iJon
Mar 2, 2003, 03:13 PM
1:35 with 256mb ram.

iJon

mymemory
Mar 2, 2003, 04:07 PM
I would like to buy 5 of them for a VJ project I have.

I would like to have the 12" because I can plug it to a 17" flat panel display.

jaguarx
Mar 2, 2003, 04:11 PM
Make sure you get the extra ram, max to 640 and i find it's a snappy little laptop, check for all the usual issues before you take it home and you'll have one fantastic little laptop.

Tommy!
Mar 2, 2003, 04:38 PM
Sorry, I didn't want to start a whole new thread for this small subject...

12" Powerbooks cant boot into OS9 (except classic mode)... Would it still be a good thing to partition? or is this not necessary? I'm considering a 12" as well and was just curious.

iJon
Mar 2, 2003, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by Tommy!
Sorry, I didn't want to start a whole new thread for this small subject...

12" Powerbooks cant boot into OS9 (except classic mode)... Would it still be a good thing to partition? or is this not necessary? I'm considering a 12" as well and was just curious.
i dont know why you would want to make a partition, unless you were doing video editing and wanted to make a srub drive.

iJon

iChan
Mar 3, 2003, 05:29 AM
I've had two major problem with my 12" PB thus far... the Trackpad button sits up from the trackpad itself and looks awful!!! but the funtionality of it is not great either because when I press the button on left edge... it gets stuck and pops back up with a very unhealthy noise.... this is the worst piece of design that I have ever seen on a trackpad in my life...

Second, I tried putting in a dvd today and it didn't suck it in... just kinda slid in... not normal...

anyway, the disc doesn't register and I can't eject... it's useless!! I'm geting a replacement... no repairs!!! replacement or refund... this is ridiculous...

I love the 12" PB to pieces... just hate to see it in sucha sorry state.

does anyone agree with me demanding a replacement?

redAPPLE
Mar 3, 2003, 05:45 AM
if a replacement is necessary, then i guess Apple would replace it. i think, it is still under guarantee.

but if this problems you mention "ARE NORMAL" then Apple should look into this "problems".

i, too, am shopping around for a new notebook. an Apple notebook that is.

if i decide to get the 12"er, i would want to include a superdrive. i would like to edit videos on this thing. would the missing L3 cache be a problem?

would a 640 ram (max) be not enough for fcp (express)?

any thoughts people?

iChan
Mar 3, 2003, 06:10 AM
well, I'm going to do everything withing my constitutional rights to get a new laptop because this is absolutely rediculous... It is faulty from the outset... I need this laptop to last me at least 20 months.... not 2 weeks!!! this is unacceptable and a bitter dissapointment as I waited many months before i switched... I though Mac's were suppose to be of immesely high qualtiy...
but compared to my old Sony Vaio... I'm not too sure... the Sony Vaio lasted my just over 2 years... and now my sister uses it and it still seems new!!!

this is so frustrating!

leprechaunG4
Mar 3, 2003, 07:11 AM
Sounds like you got a lemon. Can happen with anything. I've had none of the stated problems. I have read others complain of the button, but the drive definately sounds like it's bad. That's not a typical thing for the PB, but like anything you can always get a bumb part.

iJon
Mar 3, 2003, 07:45 AM
sorry to bust your bubble but apple wont replace it. they will repair it but they wont give you a new one.

iJon

kwajo.com
Mar 3, 2003, 08:11 AM
for FCP (Express); I just finished editing an hour long film on my iMac 800, which has neither L3 cache nor more than 512ram, and it was more than worthy. I am not the most demanding video editor in the world, but final cut express worked at a good speed for me, and I was usually doing other things at the same time (like iTunes, or proteus). The one thing I would recommend is an external drive for the video files or scratch drive, because when you get down to under a gig free on a 60 gig HD, there is going to be trouble. . .

iChan
Mar 3, 2003, 08:26 AM
iJon, how can you be sure that they won't replace the PB for me? I'm going to bring my solictor into this and then i'm going to go to the director of cosumer affairs... they'll do something.

I mean, I'm a student of business and I know that any terms that Apple impose shall not and will not reduce any of my legal entitlements... it's is in addition to my statutory rights....

Ijon, why do you say that they won't give me a new one??? you had some experience with this before?

primalman
Mar 3, 2003, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by iChan
iJon, how can you be sure that they won't replace the PB for me? I'm going to bring my solictor into this and then i'm going to go to the director of cosumer affairs... they'll do something.

I mean, I'm a student of business and I know that any terms that Apple impose shall not and will not reduce any of my legal entitlements... it's is in addition to my statutory rights....

Ijon, why do you say that they won't give me a new one??? you had some experience with this before?

Why are you so intent on getting a new one when you just noticed this one problem that could be anything from a bad gripper to a bad drive? Why not ask Apple first before you fly of the handle and ack like an ass?

They might give you a new one, but in all likelyhood, they will warranty the drive and replace it. But not the whole PowerBook. That would be dumb. Let them repair it. I mean, if that does not work, then ask for the replacement, but be prepared to do lots of convincing to Apple.

danishboy
Mar 3, 2003, 08:53 AM
iChan - I'm sorry to hear you've had troubles with your 12" AlBook...I absolutely adore mine. As to media getting stuck have you tried the force eject?

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=88068&SaveKCWindowURL=http%3A%2F%2Fkbase.info.apple.com%2Fcgi-bin%2FWebObjects%2Fkbase.woa%2Fwa%2FSaveKCToHomePage&searchMode=Assisted&kbhost=kbase.info.apple.com&showButton=false&randomValue=100&showSurvey=false&sessionID=anonymous|165596813

And while I agree that the left palm gets warm, anyone that complains is a wuss! I like how it helps keep me warm in the winter (j/K). Actually I've found with good ventilation it cools quite quickly - the aluminum chassis seems to dissapate heat much better than my Wallstreet and Lombard G3 PowerBooks.

I don't have any problems with my trackpad button - yes it does stick up higher than the trackpad, but I though that's its purpoase as a button - I rarely use the button though as I have tap and tap-drag lock enabled - I just use the trackpad for about everything and ignore the button - I couldn't do that on my old work VAIO...

patrick0brien
Mar 3, 2003, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by iChan
the Trackpad button sits up from the trackpad itself and looks awful!!!

-iChan

The button sits up for a reason: It supports the center of the screen when closed to minimize the bowing of the screen if you grab the PB by the front. As you close it, look at it from the side at how the button actually supports the screen frame, not the screen itself.

See my thread at:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21156

...For details.

As for it sticking - good question. I haven't experienced it.

hacurio1
Mar 3, 2003, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by iChan
well, I'm going to do everything withing my constitutional rights to get a new laptop because this is absolutely rediculous... It is faulty from the outset... I need this laptop to last me at least 20 months.... not 2 weeks!!! this is unacceptable and a bitter dissapointment as I waited many months before i switched... I though Mac's were suppose to be of immesely high qualtiy...
but compared to my old Sony Vaio... I'm not too sure... the Sony Vaio lasted my just over 2 years... and now my sister uses it and it still seems new!!!

this is so frustrating!

Probably the one you got had a from-factor defect. It happens with all computer companies. There will be a really small percentage of shipping products that will be defective, probably yours was one. Donít worry though, it is still under guarantee and you should get it fixed or replace in no time. Good luck

iChan
Mar 3, 2003, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by primalman
Why are you so intent on getting a new one when you just noticed this one problem that could be anything from a bad gripper to a bad drive? Why not ask Apple first before you fly of the handle and ack like an ass?

They might give you a new one, but in all likelyhood, they will warranty the drive and replace it. But not the whole PowerBook. That would be dumb. Let them repair it. I mean, if that does not work, then ask for the replacement, but be prepared to do lots of convincing to Apple.

What annoyed me the most was how ignorant the costomer care reperasentative was... there is is a way of getting it repaired obviously... but why shold i have to get something repaired that is so new? I mean, I personally don't like getting anything repaired because it comes back not quite pristine...

Under my statutory rights... I can get it repaired, refund, or replace... why do I have to go for repair??? aren't the other two just as easy to do? I'm stressing that I want to stay with apple, I want to same Laptop... but I can't afford to have the same trouble again and if they are only going to repair it... it could happen again in another two weeks...

the only way I can be sure is if I get a brand new one... not because it is newer... because I want to excercise my rights... not for the sake of it... but so that these corporations don't get a grip on controlling what is right... because not giving me a refund (in accordance with the law) is simply wrong.

Kwyjibo
Mar 3, 2003, 11:55 AM
ok iChan I know how you feel, I've had a few problems with my iBook and applecare has delat with them . they do seem to like to replace parts rather than the whole computer so I would jsut accept that. I also know form experine that beign a jerk to applecare gets you very little leway. I jsut got my iBook back from repairs and after spending qutie afew hours on the phone and thme try to convince me to pay liek $349 for lCd repair I said theres no way that I caused that damge. In the end they repalced the whole lcdan casing for me. Plsu they put in a new logic baord again and a new chip to try and resolve my issue. I'm happy, my HD and stuff is still intact. as for repalce, I don't think under their company polciy if they can repair they will try that before sending u out a whole new pBook. i also suggest that if oyu pla nto keep this machien for 2 years you get applecare especially if your having troubles so early on....

Nuc
Mar 3, 2003, 12:38 PM
First of all be glad you have a new 12" PB, I would be honored to have such a great tool and oh a great piece of art :)

Well I have to say that I have very good conversations with the Customer Care at Apple. I own a 500 MHz G3 PB and when I have called them they were always willing to help in either hardware or software problems. I even got them to replace my HD because it made noise, they sent a box to ship it in an it was back in about a week. Also another time I dropped something on my keyboard and broke a key, told them and a few days later I had a new keyboard. I have had other things happen like a bad power cord, and they always had my products to me ASAP.

Oh and if your troubled about it coming back not like new. Actually mine came back all shiny and clean :)

Apple care is a very wise investment, it would be stupid not to get it. Because you will never know what will happen, operator error is usually the case!

AndrewMT
Mar 3, 2003, 12:57 PM
Apple's repair service is the best in the business. I had to have my 15" Ti repaired twice for one thing or another and both times it came back in excellent shape. They even wash the case for you. So, saying the laptop will be less "pristine" is incorrect.

I hope you are not one of those people who likes to get replacements on their products to make you feel better about your purchase. For instance, maybe you scratched part of the case and you are going to use this defective cd drive to get a replacement. You wouldn't be doing that, would you?

pilotgi
Mar 3, 2003, 01:29 PM
You didn't say where you bought your PowerBook.

I bought my iBook from MacMall and I'm 98% certain that you could make a return to them citing "defective" or something similar and just order another one, no questions asked.

BubbaTAC
Mar 3, 2003, 01:40 PM
warm, yes...hot? no. It is not uncomfortable to put your hand there if thats what you mean. It gets hotter when it is on batter power then plugged in, but it is fine...best laptop, scrath that, best computer I have ever owned...I am not talking about OSX (which is awesome), but the hardware is amazingly well thought out and the performance is just fine

iJon
Mar 3, 2003, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by iChan
iJon, how can you be sure that they won't replace the PB for me? I'm going to bring my solictor into this and then i'm going to go to the director of cosumer affairs... they'll do something.

I mean, I'm a student of business and I know that any terms that Apple impose shall not and will not reduce any of my legal entitlements... it's is in addition to my statutory rights....

Ijon, why do you say that they won't give me a new one??? you had some experience with this before?
yes i do have experience with this. apple does not take back computers,its there policy. they will glady repair what is wrong free of cost. There is no need for them to replace the whole thing. you will have to do some major bitchin to get them to break that rule. good luck, although i dont think you will accomplish your goal.

iJon

patrick0brien
Mar 3, 2003, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by iChan
I can get it repaired, refund, or replace... why do I have to go for repair??? aren't the other two just as easy to do? I'm stressing that I want to stay with apple, I want to same Laptop... but I can't afford to have the same trouble again and if they are only going to repair it... it could happen again in another two weeks...

the only way I can be sure is if I get a brand new one... not because it is newer... because I want to excercise my rights... not for the sake of it... but so that these corporations don't get a grip on controlling what is right... because not giving me a refund (in accordance with the law) is simply wrong.

-iChan

The key phrase is "repaire, refund, or replace", which one the three is legally at the discression of the merchant, but they do have to address one of them.

hacurio1
Mar 3, 2003, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by patrick0brien
-iChan

The key phrase is "repaire, refund, or replace", which one the three is legally at the discression of the merchant, but they do have to address one of them.

Yess!!! so don't worry, just give them a call and they should take care of it!!!

beatle888
Mar 3, 2003, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by iJon
sorry to bust your bubble but apple wont replace it. they will repair it but they wont give you a new one.

iJon


they will have to replace it if they cant fix it. its the consumer lemon law. send it in three times for the same problem and bam....new powerbook.

iJon
Mar 3, 2003, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by beatle888
they will have to replace it if they cant fix it. its the consumer lemon law. send it in three times for the same problem and bam....new powerbook.
well duh, not to be mean but isnt that stating the obivous. the thing is they can fix it, its just a simple problem some of the powerbooks have had. they will put the part in and send it back to you, done. they make the computers, i dont think there is anyting they cant fix.

iJon

hinrgmike
Mar 3, 2003, 07:01 PM
interesting that iChan would mention a dvd getting "stuck" in his 12" PB. The same thing happened to myself and two other people I know of that have this model. In my case, I had been using the computer for 7 or 8 hours and went to put a cd in the slot and it just quietly sucked it in - not the usual THUD sound. I though, hmm that's interesting, and then I noticed that the cd did not mount and I could not get it to eject it. I ran the Apple System Profiler, and weirdly it indicated that I had NO internal Superdrive or any type of DVD/CD drive. I finally found on the applecare site http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=88275 and part way down it discusses when DVD-ROMS will not eject. I tried resetting the PRAM AND NVRAM and nothing happened. So then I clicked on the link and followed the steps to reset the Power Manager http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=14449 and lo and behold it worked, my superdrive reappeared in System Profiler, and my disc mounted normally. Since then, I've had two friends suffer the same problem with their 12" PB's so maybe their is some tendency for these computers to act up like this. No problems since....knock on wood.

redAPPLE
Mar 4, 2003, 05:03 AM
Originally posted by kwajo.com
for FCP (Express); I just finished editing an hour long film on my iMac 800, which has neither L3 cache nor more than 512ram, and it was more than worthy. I am not the most demanding video editor in the world, but final cut express worked at a good speed for me, and I was usually doing other things at the same time (like iTunes, or proteus). The one thing I would recommend is an external drive for the video files or scratch drive, because when you get down to under a gig free on a 60 gig HD, there is going to be trouble. . .

what is the L3 cache good for then? hmm? which apps would benefit from an L3 cache?

bivaughn
Mar 4, 2003, 12:04 PM
I do love my 12" PB so, but I have developed the following problems:

- My PB will no longer charge all the way, usually stopping at about 97%. xlr8yourmac.com has had some discussion about this, with some people saying a new AC adapter has fixed it, and some people saying new batteries, and some saying a software switch. I will take mine into the apple store soon to see if they can help me.

- The whole design was supposed to avoid latches or hinges that could "catch" and cause damage, but they apparently completely forgot about this with the plastic footies! I've lost one already, causing the darned thing to "rock" when I have it flat on a desk.

- Sometimes when it's been asleep for a while it just turns itself off and has to be started up from scratch again. Kind of annoying.

- Sometimes when sitting asleep, it will wake itself up periodically and then put itself back to sleep when the latch is closed. I know this because the throbbing LED goes blank and the HD spins up.

- When on battery with word open (I use it at school to take notes) there can be REALLY annoying 1 second or so delays. I think the problem with this is a lack of RAM, I only have 256M, and I think it keeps spinning the disk up.

And, finally:

Battery Life. Whoever decided that this thing can get 4 hours of battery life was LYING. The best I've gotten is 3:15 or so, running nothing, with the screen fully dimmed. I feel lied to and it really sucks.

But otherwise, the thing is so much better than the five PC laptops I have had previous to it. I would recommend it. And get the AppleCare!

-biv

Anticipat3
Mar 4, 2003, 12:37 PM
$20 says you didn't condition your battery properly right when you bought it.

My 12" pBook gets 4+ hours of battery life on a dimmed screen using only Word. by 4+ i mean 4:10 to 4:15, consistently, plus a couple hours of sleep time in there.

If you didn't condition your battery correctly, by first totally charging it, then totally letting it discharge, then charging it again right when you got the powerbook, then that's why your battery isn't performing so well. It has nothing to do with the Powerbook, it's how all Lithium Ion batteries work.

I also haven't ever had my powerbook wake up when closed, or turn off when it was asleep, but be advised that this is controlled by a magnetic switch between the screen and the palm-areas, so perhaps you have something in your backpack setting this off... ?

I also haven't lost any footies, but it doesn't sit even anyhow :-/, which is irritating, but a guitar pick seems just the right height to even it out, so I just carry one of those with me to prop up the high corner.

I'd give the thing two thumbs up for everything except gaming (pretty so-so, but then again I moved to this from a 2.8 p4 desktop with a geforce 4 ti), the touchpad button (which is a little chintsy), and the lack of a DVI port (it sucks that I have to hook my separate LCD panel up with a VGA port).

bivaughn
Mar 4, 2003, 02:03 PM
Okay...good for you. But you would lose your $20, because I can read directions, too, and I conditioned the battery properly. Charged the battery properly and ran it down (I did this TWICE) by playing a long DVD until the battery finally lost enough charge to force the system to go to sleep.

The waking up when closed I have noticed when sitting on a wooden countertop with nothing metallic nearby...

As I said, I'm taking it to the store with my complaints, and expect they will give me a new battery and AC adapter.

As for the mouse button, it's obviously there to support the screen from being broken when grabbed with a hand or whatnot...and I like the clickityness.

Originally posted by Anticipat3
$20 says you didn't condition your battery properly right when you bought it.

My 12" pBook gets 4+ hours of battery life on a dimmed screen using only Word. by 4+ i mean 4:10 to 4:15, consistently, plus a couple hours of sleep time in there.

If you didn't condition your battery correctly, by first totally charging it, then totally letting it discharge, then charging it again right when you got the powerbook, then that's why your battery isn't performing so well. It has nothing to do with the Powerbook, it's how all Lithium Ion batteries work.

I also haven't ever had my powerbook wake up when closed, or turn off when it was asleep, but be advised that this is controlled by a magnetic switch between the screen and the palm-areas, so perhaps you have something in your backpack setting this off... ?

I also haven't lost any footies, but it doesn't sit even anyhow :-/, which is irritating, but a guitar pick seems just the right height to even it out, so I just carry one of those with me to prop up the high corner.

I'd give the thing two thumbs up for everything except gaming (pretty so-so, but then again I moved to this from a 2.8 p4 desktop with a geforce 4 ti), the touchpad button (which is a little chintsy), and the lack of a DVI port (it sucks that I have to hook my separate LCD panel up with a VGA port).

iJon
Mar 4, 2003, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by redAPPLE
what is the L3 cache good for then? hmm? which apps would benefit from an L3 cache?
pretty much everything benefits from the extra cache. it just gives your machine more power and its more memory the computer can hold when it does things. i have noticed the powermac g4 1ghz is somewhat faster and things than the 1ghz imac, not enough though to justify a price difference. a processor guy will explain more to you about it in geeky terms, thats more of a real world explanation.

iJon

Soma_Addict
Mar 4, 2003, 02:39 PM
I have had an experience with replacing a defective iBook. When I bought my girlfriend her iBook it came with a defective CD drive. The drive would not open at all. I called apple and they wanted me to send it in for repair. I said that I did not pay for a repaired computer. I paid to have a fully functional working computer right out of the box. Also I told them that I would not trust the computer since it already had one defect. I wanted a replacement. After a little discussing my position apple relented and sent a brand new iBook.

So iJon, I have personal experience with getting a replacement for a defective computer. It is possible.

dabirdwell
Mar 4, 2003, 03:30 PM
Apple is replacing my 12".

It had a bent lid, I sent it for service (after some hassle), and it came back with a different bend in it. They had forced the lid to close at the edge by hand-bending it in the middle.

This is Apple Service?

Technical support said it was within specs. and said I could send them some more photos. They basically told me that they would rather I return it than them fix the lid.

I called Apple developer and bitched at them a little, and I'm getting a refund, an ADC asset, and I can order a new one or wait for a 15".

Now, how long to wait for the 15?...

Macmaniac
Mar 4, 2003, 09:14 PM
One question does it play warcraft 3 well??
I may by a superdrive one with my sis, we share the cost and get a kicka$$ notebook in the process. Talk about brother sister copoperation.

iJon
Mar 4, 2003, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by Macmaniac
One question does it play warcraft 3 well??
I may by a superdrive one with my sis, we share the cost and get a kicka$$ notebook in the process. Talk about brother sister copoperation.
warcraft played very nicely on my computer. i will go back later tonight and tell you what it settings it sets for me for you.

iJon

samsflagdrummer
Mar 5, 2003, 11:38 PM
Yeah, my dads is AWESOME, just wish I had it...

it does get pretty hot though, but who cares...

john123
Mar 6, 2003, 12:50 AM
Originally posted by iChan
iJon, how can you be sure that they won't replace the PB for me? I'm going to bring my solictor into this and then i'm going to go to the director of cosumer affairs... they'll do something.

I mean, I'm a student of business and I know that any terms that Apple impose shall not and will not reduce any of my legal entitlements... it's is in addition to my statutory rights....

Ijon, why do you say that they won't give me a new one??? you had some experience with this before?

You misunderstand your statutory rights. Repair is at the discretion of the manufacturer -- not you.

You are also not entitled to a refund. Your entitlement to a refund is only per the terms of the merchant from which you purchased the product. If you bought from Apple, the terms of that agreement are spelled out clearly and plainly on their web site.

Replacement is the final alternative. Quite rare...