To Experienced World of Warcraft Players: WoW Questions from a Newbie

[ScarletRed]

Hello. I have some questions to a selected few of you who play World of Warcraft on MacBook Pro (fully upgraded). From herein, any references to an MBP is assumed to be the fully upgraded model such as the one shown in my signature below unless stated otherwise.

I am a Mac convert who recently purchased a brand new MacBook Pro (my first Mac ever). While I bought it for primarily work purpose, I thought it would add some flavor by adding on some decent games so I started looking around and WoW caught my attention. After determining that MBP is enough to run the World of Warcraft (WoW) at maximum settings at very reasonable framerates, I am beginning to seriously consider buying WoW. There are a few questions that need to be answered before I make such commitment, however. The questions are:

1. From one of the pages on Blizzard website Game Guides/Getting Started/Quick Start (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/basics/gettingstarted.html), it is written, "To select an object, monster, or character, left-click it. To interact with it, right-click it."

Since majority of mac users have only one mouse button, how do they interact with an object? Obviously not with the second mouse button since the chances are, there isn't one on yours (unless you bought a multi-button mouse). But for those of you who use the original Mac mouse or the trackpad (not likely), how do you interact with an object?

2. What is the lowest frames per second (fps) you've experienced on your MBP? Please be sure to state the location of your character in WoW, time of the day, your time-zone, (real time, not game time). This will give me a good idea how well the MBP will perform on the upcoming expansion pack (which will, undoubtedly, require higher system specs).

3. The last MMORPG I played was about 6 years ago (Everquest). I quit the game eventually because of overcrowding, long lines of waiting to camp out certain locations, numerous bugs which have led to loss of several highly coveted items, lousy customer service and indifference in attitude of in-game GMs, ...etc. With these in mind, what is your WoW experience in general? If applicable, please be sure to state the followings:

a) Instances of game bug(s) resulting in loss of one or more of your prized possessions.
b) 3D character model clipping issues which caused your character to get stuck in some narrow/crowded areas.

4. One of the many big mistakes in Asheron's Call 2 was that high level quest areas and certain quest-related items were in the middle of a PvP area, causing source of endless gripes and complaints from many players. Are there areas like this in a typical Normal Realms server in WoW?

5. To those of you who have had experience with Asheron's Call 2, are the character development model similar in concept to Asheron's Call 2? In the game, you had a limited number of character development points to assign to a particular skill. Once spent, these points could not be recovered. So if you poured xx amount of points to raise Hamstring skill to a certain level of proficiency and later found out that this skill is a total waste of pts, you could not recover the pts allotted into the skill. Is this also the case with WoW character development?

More questions will be coming next week...

[HiRez]

1. Command (cloverleaf)-clicking is the same as a right mouse click, so you can play with one mouse button (although I'd definitely recommend a multibutton mouse for WoW). But I'm not sure what they mean by "interact with". You left-click on a monster, player, or NPC to select them, and them initiate an action with another button (such as casting a spell on them, attacking them with a melee weapon, and so on). Right-clicking on a character's portrait (upper-left corner after you select them, normally) brings up a drop-down menu with some choices.

2. I don't have a MacBook Pro, however I have seen these perform with very high frames rates in general (well over 40-50 fps on high settings, which is very good for WoW). I play comfortably on a a dual G5 with an old 64 MB Radeon 9600 Pro, which is far inferior to the Radeon 1600 Mobility in your MBP. Also, I don't think the expansion is adding anything in the way of eye candy, it's just more content. So don't worry about it, your machine is more than capable of a great WoW experience.

3a. I have never personally lost an item due to a game bug (and I have been playing since Day One a year and a half ago). The game is good about rolling back if it goes down, even items in transit in the mail or being traded are very rarely lost or mishandled. I do have a friend who because of a full-inventory bug in one quest lost her quest reward item, but she ticketed a GM and got the item back (it was a known bug).

3b. It's very rare to get stuck anywhere, they've done a pretty good job finding potential places and fixing them so this can't happen. There are a few places where it can still happen, however there is a command to get yourself unstuck which often works, or you can (in-game) petition a GM with your situation. Or in the worst case, you can use your hearthstone (or mage/druid teleport spell) to get you out.

4. If you are on a PvE ("normal") server this will never happen, as you are never forced into PvP. You can choose to flag yourself at any time for PvP, but if you are unflagged there is nothing the other faction can do to attack you (although you have to be careful, if you cast a buff on a friendly player who is flagged, it will flag you...takes 5 minutes for the PvP to unflag). However, you are often competing with players of both factions for resources and quest items. It just depends on the quest and the time of say and the population of your servers. I've never found it to be too much of a problem. If an area is crowded I'll just work on something else for a few minutes and generally people will have moved on.

5. Don't know Asheron's call, but in regards to Talent points, no, you cannot recover them once spent (you get one point per level starting at level 10). However, you can pay gold to "respec", where you get all your points back and can respend them all. The first time is cheap (1 gold), the second time more expensive (5 gold), then each additional time it's an additional 5 gold up to a maximum of 50 gold. In the latest patch there's a new thing where if you wait a while, the cost starts decaying over time. Also, if Blizzard does a total overhaul on a character class that really messes witht he talents, they'll generally give everyone in that class all their points back to respend.

[ScarletRed]

Thank you for taking your valuable time to provide detailed response. I appreciate it.

As for right-clicking to interact, how would you go about speaking to an NPC quest giver to receive or to activate a quest?

[madog]

I wrote a huge reply but macrumors doesn't like me this morning. This is the second topic that has "disappeared" after trying to post a reply only to "reappear" after I refresh the forums. Just enough for me to lose my entire freakin' reply. Win some lose some.

And HiRez seemed to cover it all =)

[ScarletRed]

Don't worry, madog. I am a very patient person. I'll read yours when (and if) you can find the time to retype a detailed response. While HiRez did provide a good response, I know it is one person's experience. Yours would be invaluable.

[HiRez]

As for right-clicking to interact, how would you go about speaking to an NPC quest giver to receive or to activate a quest?Same way, hold down the Command key and click on them. A Command-click simulates a right-click so you can use it anytime you would right-click.

Just get the game already, you know you wanna. ;)

[ScarletRed]

One of the many major issues I've had in Everquest was kill-stealing. I encountered many rude and inconsiderate high-level players who delighted at ruining fun by stealing their kills, pulling trains on hapless and unwary players....etc.

How are these issues handled in WoW?

...Just get the game already, you know you wanna. ;)
Not just yet. I need to know a little more before I make a 6 months commitment. You can tell by the questions I ask that I may be new to WoW, but not to MMORPGs.

[madog]

Same way, hold down the Command key and click on them. A Command-click simulates a right-click so you can use it anytime you would right-click.


Oh! One thing I had in my response was: "Get a 2+ button mouse!" Of course you can play with a single button mouse but even then you are also restricted to the trackpad on your MBP. There are certain key moments in a tough battle where reflexes are the key to victory. Sometimes there are split second decisions in which you need to get one more heal or one more hit in order to stay alive. That applies to dungeons, duels, 'regular' world quests and especially PvP.

Also, being able to map a spell/macro to an extra button on a 3+ button mouse is a big advantage in my opinion for any battle.

[ScarletRed]

Oh! One thing I had in my response was: "Get a 2+ button mouse!" Of course you can play with a single button mouse but even then you are also restricted to the trackpad on your MBP. There are certain key moments in a tough battle where reflexes are the key to victory...
Having been a loyal user of trackball for about 10 years, I recently bought a Logitech Marble Mouse (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=212465). Despite the name, it's actually a trackball and mine is the four-button version. Has anyone here have had any experience with trackballs in MMORPGs, particularly in regard to WoW?

[madog]

One of the many major issues I've had in Everquest was kill-stealing. I encountered many rude and inconsiderate high-level players who delighted at ruining fun by stealing their kills, pulling trains on hapless and unwary players....etc.

How are these issues handled in WoW?



This is somewhat of a problem in WoW in certain areas where large amounts of gold can be found from monsters. In these areas "farmers" are sometimes a problem as they are constant and unyielding. However, most of these areas have few or no quests.

When a high level player is killing in a low level area he usually won't be around for long. They might be doing old quests in order to gain favor with a particular faction or just to help a low level friend blow through an otherwise tedious quest. Other than that, it might mean the person is just bored and being an ass.

In all these circumstances it might be in your best interest to just move on to another quest and return later. Otherwise, you can wait in the area, sit up and take a stretch or get something to drink or eat [sometimes I'd forget!] and wait for the respawn which is about 5-10 minutes. More if it is a world-boss or rare spawn.

Having been a loyal user of trackball for about 10 years, I recently bought a Logitech Marble Mouse. Despite the name, it's actually a trackball and mine is the four-button version. Has anyone here have had any experience with trackballs in MMORPGs, particularly in regard to WoW?

As for a trackball I have never used one. From what I understand it fits into the "use what you know" category. So if it works for you and you like using it in WoW.... then go for it. I've heard from people that swear by them and won't use anything else in WoW or any other game for that matter.

[ScarletRed]

...Also, being able to map a spell/macro to an extra button on a 3+ button mouse is a big advantage in my opinion for any battle.
Are these button-mapping done in-game or out of game?

In-game configuration of mouse buttons will restrict the button assignments to in-game only. Once you exit the game, the buttons should return to their previous state.

[HiRez]

Are these button-mapping done in-game or out of game?

In-game configuration of mouse buttons will restrict the button assignments to in-game only. Once you exit the game, the buttons should return to their previous state.There's a key binding preference screen where you can map just about anything to anything, including key-combos (shift-option-control-a, for example), mouse buttons (including mouse buttons 4 and 5, scroll wheel, and "chording" button actions), and combo-clicks (shift-comman-right-click, for example). They don't affect anything outside of the game (other applications). The things that are bindable are just about everything, from movement to view switching to targeting to combat and spell slots to opening info panes such as Guild and Character and Inventory. Also, many addons (plugins you can download and easily install) can add their own bindable actions to the key bindings interface. Just about anything you can do in the game can be bound to a key or controller action. Additionally, you can create macros to do more complex things, which are in turn also bindable.

[madog]

Are these button-mapping done in-game or out of game?

In-game configuration of mouse buttons will restrict the button assignments to in-game only. Once you exit the game, the buttons should return to their previous state.

It would depend on your trackball. For example, I had a MS Intellimouse and I was able to map the additional thumb/side buttons but not the left/right scroll wheel clicks. There actually was a period when OS X recognized them but that didn't last too long [I have no idea what happened] and was after I stopped playing WoW. This was without any additional drivers as MS didn't even support the scroll wheel clicks on that particular mouse.

Basically, I'd guess that if you can map/use them in OS X then you should be able to in WoW.

Otherwise, there are programs like USB Overdrive which allow you to map buttons on a USB device specifically for certain applications 'out of game'. So when you have Safari open button #4 will go back a page, but when you are in WoW button #4 will melt faces.

[Jovian9]

Having been a loyal user of trackball for about 10 years, I recently bought a Logitech Marble Mouse (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=212465). Despite the name, it's actually a trackball and mine is the four-button version. Has anyone here have had any experience with trackballs in MMORPGs, particularly in regard to WoW?


I use a logitech trackball mouse (trackball, 2 buttons, and scroll wheel) to play WoW and love it. I use it for any game I play on my Macs, even unplug it from my iMac to use on the PowerBook if I'm gonna play some games on it.

[ddrueckhammer]

I was a long time Eq player and played WoW for about a year but have recently put it on hold because it was sucking up my life.

About Kill stealing...I never found this to be a problem in WoW so much as there are areas that are fairly well hunted but there are many places that can be hunted at a particular level and it is easy to find one that is uninhabited at any time. For quests, there really isn't any camping because most of the mobs with good drops are located in instances. (a dungeon that is a specific version for you and your party). Also, many quests can be shared with people of the same faction as you so if someone is camping something they will ususally team up with you and share that quest..

I've also never got a character stuck although I did it a few times in Eq. Wow is overall a better game than Eq (especially when I started Eq in '98) Leveling is quick and there isn't an experience penalty for dying so it is easier to take risks you wouldn't have in Eq) If you die in a place that you cannot get your body, you can resurrect in the cemetary and your equipment will take damage and you will have to pay to repair it. This can get expensive if you die repeatedly...

Finally, I would recommend joining a PvP server in WoW. I know it wasn't that appealing in Eq but in WoW you probaby won't even see the opposite faction until you are in your 20's or 30's. There are areas like near Scarlet Monastery or Stranglethorn Vale that the Alliance and Horde clash at lower levels but usually the high levels are just passing through to get to an instance and won't be there long. Most of the below level 20 areas would be very difficult for the opposite faction to get to without having to fight guards and other high level characters. PvP adds an extra layer of fun at higher levels and it is highly recommended for this game. You don't have to PvP at all if you want even on a PvP server but you will want to once you see a raid going on in Hillsbrand or visit your first battle ground...If you want to avoid the opposite faction for as long as possible play a Night Elf as they start on an island all by themselves...

Finally, you need to get a USB laser mouse to play this game. At lower levels a trackpad will be fine but try to take the Temple Zul'Farrack or finish the Uldaman instance and you will see that a track pad will just not work. There are higher level instances like Molten Core where this is more true but these instances will be among the first really challenging places to play....at least they were for me. ( I solo healed the Temple in ZF with my Resto druid at lvl 40 for the first time and it was very intense..) The first insance you will do (at least if you are alliance will be the Deadmines in Westfall usually called VC for the main boss Edwin Vancleef (there is a fun quest series involving this instance). There is 1 decently challenging room in VC and it serves as a good place for people to learn to work together...If you are Horde then Wailing Caverns will probably be your first instance and you can fish for Deviate Fish here which sell pretty good to Alchemists...

Good Luck and I hope you have fun with WoW, I know I have. Man this thread makes me want to pick it back up but I will fail out of school if I do...

[madog]

Side note: Just came to this topic again and at the bottom was an Ad for buying gold in WoW. :( :( :( :(

[ScarletRed]

As the acronym MMORPG implies, most of online games such as WoW are designed with group combats/adventures in mind. Although solo'ing is frowned upon my the majority of die-hard players, there are cases where solo'ing is the only viable option (time constraint, for instance, where one cannot spend too much time searching for an able party).

I searched through WoW forums and found that the Mage and Rogue class are the two most solo'able class. But solo'able upto what level? And is high level solo'ing really practical? Can a level 60 character be expected to enter an instance/zone/whatever alone and come out of it alive? I remember Everquest claiming solo'ing was a viable option but to those of us who actually tried the game, we knew that wasn't true. Is this also the case with WoW? Can a high level character still have a chance to grab NICE gears and equipments by solo'ing?

Btw, what do you mean by gold in WoW? Buying in-game currency with real money? If so, then that's absolutely absurd.

[ddrueckhammer]

As the acronym MMORPG implies, most of online games such as WoW are designed with group combats/adventures in mind. Although solo'ing is frowned upon my the majority of die-hard players, there are cases where solo'ing is the only viable option (time constraint, for instance, where one cannot spend too much time searching for an able party).

I searched through WoW forums and found that the Mage and Rogue class are the two most solo'able class. But solo'able upto what level? And is high level solo'ing really practical? Can a level 60 character be expected to enter an instance/zone/whatever alone and come out of it alive? I remember Everquest claiming solo'ing was a viable option but to those of us who actually tried the game, we knew that wasn't true. Is this also the case with WoW? Can a high level character still have a chance to grab NICE gears and equipments by solo'ing?

Btw, what do you mean by gold in WoW? Buying in-game currency with real money? If so, then that's absolutely absurd.

Yes you can solo fine into higher levels with many classes In fact you can solo all the way to 60 with most if you want...Locks, Priests, and Druids all make easy soloing as well in my experience because most classes can be specced with talent points for optimal soloing...You will want to group up for instances that are at a similar level as you but you can usually solo instances that are 10-20 levels below you such as the Deadmine, WC, SM etc. Higher level instances are not soloable however. You will probably want to group up at least some just to get your skills up for instances as they can be really challanging but you can definately solo all the way to 60...

[ScarletRed]

What is your #1 choice in race/class for kiting?
What about for solo'ing?

... but you can definately solo all the way to 60...
So you are saying that it IS practical to solo in WoW?

ddrueckhammer, when did you stop playing WoW? I ask this so I have an idea how long you have been out of touch with the game. I know that in MMORPGs, rules tend to change quite often...

[ddrueckhammer]

What is your #1 choice in race/class for kiting?
What about for solo'ing?

Unfortunately, Kiting doesn't work all that well in WoW. I fear kited with my lock but there are better ways to get exp. Shadow Priests and Locks are absurdly powerful though. Lock's pets keep mobs off of them so they don't have to use that much mana. Shadow priests are damage dealing monsters but they need to team up with a warrior or druid to do optimal damage. Feral Druids do tons of damage too but shifting correctly takes practice. Mages are great to have around in instances for crowd control and DPS but mana is limited. Any class can eat food to gain mana or hp or drink pots. Professions are important in this game. I did really well soloing with my feral druid. Druids are jacks of all trades masters of none so they can solo very well. They shapeshift to different animal forms to get those skills. They are fun to level but they aren't that great end game because they end up being healbots with a spell that can give others an extra mana bar instantly. They are always welcome in groups though because they can heal. All of the classes in WoW are pretty balanced so just pick one that appeals to you. I wouldn't play a Pally though personally.

[ddrueckhammer]

I quit about a month ago. There have been a couple of updates since then I think but I don't think it has changed that much. I will probably go back to it but I need to focus more on school now.

Get WoW, pick whatever character you want and just play. You will have fun.

[ScarletRed]

From someone named Suialthor on WoW forums, posted on June 26, 2006:
----------------------------------------------------------
Must be nice.
All I see are guilds with multiple aoe classes going non stop to prevent ANYONE from tag'n a mob. They even justify this saying they "NEED" the gear for their instance and scrubs should leave.
Often they will train mobs to help encourage people to leave.
----------------------------------------------------------

This is just one of the many complaints and gripes from ordinary players. Posts like these appear to be in contradiction to what you people have stated about WoW... So I checked their servers (and a long list at that!). Majority of them (normal ones and not PvP) were highly populated (I guess this means 3000+ players per server?). So if I were to buy WoW and sign in, I'd probably find myself as a victim of marauding guilds... unless I join a guild. But I have no desire to associate myself with such players as I despise their conduct.

Anyway, if you were to find yourself the victim of plundering guilds/parties, what would you do?

The reason why I quit Everquest 6 years ago was because of rude and inconsiderate players. I don't see why WoW would be any different unless they had very strict rules against such conduct and the power to enforce such policies.

[madog]

Yes, using real currency to buy virtual gold for a make believe world. It does screw up the economy a bit and inflate prices in the game.

What is your #1 choice in race/class for kiting?
What about for solo'ing?

So you are saying that it IS practical to solo in WoW?

ddrueckhammer, when did you stop playing WoW?


Pretty much the ONLY kiteable class are Paladins. Furthermore I would personally say that that they are also the best for soloing most non-dungeon/boss quests 1-59 which is pretty much what I did. That is in terms of survivability. Paladins are the weakest chars in the game but can stay alive the longest. Alternately, Mages/"Shadow" spec'd Priests/Rogues can dish out huge amounts of damage in a shorter time but have extremely weak defenses. So depending on how you measure it, whether it be by doing the most damage or staying alive the longest, many of the classes are easy to solo with if you know how to play it. I'd have to say that "Holy" spec'd Priests would be difficult to solo with along with certain Warlocks.

1-59 one could solo with ANY class while avoiding dungeons and finishing the more difficult quests at a higher level. Anything is possible.

However, the game changes at 60. Once you get there you MUST work with a group in order to advance through a 5-man or 40 man dungeon in order to get better equipment.

[ScarletRed]

Unfortunately, Kiting doesn't work all that well in WoW. I fear kited with my lock but there are better ways to get exp. Shadow Priests and Locks are absurdly powerful though. Lock's pets keep mobs off of them so they don't have to use that much mana...
Locks? The only locks I am aware of are the metallic gadgets to securing valuables. But something tells me that is not what you are referring to... Would you care to elaborate on that?

[ddrueckhammer]

Eh, there are juvenile guilds and players on every server on every online game. If you just want to solo then play eq for Mac. Nobody will bother you believe me....WoW has its areas like STV that are very contested but there are many that one can solo in fine. The beaches in Hillsbrand and the Wetlands can be contested but islands and places like Desolace can be great for soloing...

People just like to complain in forums. There aren't any long camps in WoW so anyone who needs an item will get it and leave or they will offer to group up with you. There are some powerlevelers who will dominate a camp but there are alternative places to hunt that are just as good. This island of Feathermoon is great in your early 40s and I rarely saw many people hunting there. Instances can't be entered by anyone but who you are in a group with so there is no contest there...

[madog]

Locks? The only locks I am aware of are the metallic gadgets to securing valuables. But something tells me that is not what you are referring to... Would you care to elaborate on that?


Warlocks!

Oh yeah, in my last post I stated that Paladins are great for solo PvE [player vs. environment, as opposed to PvP] but that doesn't mean they are good for anything else. Some people like them, but most prefer some other class who's combat system isn't based on random rolls and waiting. Also, at 40-50 they are considerably powerful as their survivability makes them a formidable opponent, but at 60 their power does not scale as well as every other class.

I mean, they serve their purpose but it is definitely more fun in the long run to choose a different class.

Alternately, Warriors are one of the classes that start out fairly weak and then later become the most important class in the game as they are the only ones who can effectively tank end game bosses in 40 man raids. They are also a class whos strength is highly dependant on their equipment.

[ddrueckhammer]

Locks? The only locks I am aware of are the metallic gadgets to securing valuables. But something tells me that is not what you are referring to... Would you care to elaborate on that?

Warlocks...Its a class similar to Necromancers in Eq.

[ddrueckhammer]

Yes, using real currency to buy virtual gold for a make believe world. It does screw up the economy a bit and inflate prices in the game.

Pretty much the ONLY kiteable class are Paladins. Furthermore I would personally say that that they are also the best for soloing most non-dungeon/boss quests 1-59 which is pretty much what I did. That is in terms of survivability. Paladins are the weakest chars in the game but can stay alive the longest. Alternately, Mages/"Shadow" spec'd Priests/Rogues can dish out huge amounts of damage in a shorter time but have extremely weak defenses. So depending on how you measure it, whether it be by doing the most damage or staying alive the longest, many of the classes are easy to solo with if you know how to play it. I'd have to say that "Holy" spec'd Priests would be difficult to solo with along with certain Warlocks.

1-59 one could solo with ANY class while avoiding dungeons and finishing the more difficult quests at a higher level. Anything is possible.

However, the game changes at 60. Once you get there you MUST work with a group in order to advance through a 5-man or 40 man dungeon in order to get better equipment.

You put it perfectly...The reason why I said I wouldn't play a Pally is because they are so weak. I did like my Feral druid though and they are kind of weak. Any class can solo if correctly specced in this game. Talent points are extremely fun to play with and I could never figure out exactly how I wanted to be specced although I did settle on one over time..

[ScarletRed]

Yes, using real currency to buy virtual gold for a make believe world. It does screw up the economy a bit and inflate prices in the game.
I retract what I have stated a few posts ago about paying real money for auctioned in-game items being absurd. I guess it's not that absurd. Afterall, many millions of americans do it everyday. It's called the stockmarket. You know how the game goes...Ordinary players are suckered into investment by buying x shares of XYZ stock. They base their buy/sell decisions on quarterly, semi, and annual earnings reports (which are, more often than not, doctored or falsified by corrupt and dishonest businessmen (i.e. con-artists)) and those who end up making real money are the insiders. So I guess we can't be so quick to judge RPGers for participating in similar act. The only difference here being that the sellers, in this case, are less likely to be a con-artist than those corrupt businessmen (i.e. former Enron CEO Kenneth Lay and Jeffrey Skilling).

Stockmarket is a government sanctioned gambling just as auctioning of in-game WoW equipments are sanctioned by Blizzard (correct me if I am wrong).

[ddrueckhammer]

No it's pretty much absurd...Nobody uber in one of these games would ever pay for Gold in game. Gold can be made at lower levels just fine with professions. Cheating on a game is stupid becuase the fun of the game is the journey. Especially, in MMORPGs.

[ScarletRed]

With regard to twinking (which is a term reserved for the act of transferring nice equipments to a low level character under the same account), how how easy is it in WoW? Is there a safe way to do it all by yourself or must you rely on a buddy or someone you can trust?

[ddrueckhammer]

You can send gold to another character in the mail if they are the same faction and there are ways to get gold to the other faction if you have one on the other side but it can be dangerous (ie you could lose your money). The really good items are all BOE or BOP (Bind on Equip, Bind on Pickup) and can't be traded so money is the main way that characters can be twinked...Because of the mail system you don't have to transfer any items or gold by hand if you don't want to...

[madog]

I retract what I have stated a few posts ago about paying real money for auctioned in-game items being absurd. I guess it's not that absurd. Afterall, many millions of americans do it everyday. It's called the stockmarket. You know how the game goes...Ordinary players are suckered into investment by buying x shares of XYZ stock. They base their buy/sell decisions on quarterly, semi, and annual earnings reports (which are, more often than not, doctored or falsified by corrupt and dishonest businessmen (i.e. con-artists)) and those who end up making real money are the insiders. So I guess we can't be so quick to judge RPGers for participating in similar act. The only difference here being that the sellers, in this case, are less likely to be a con-artist than those corrupt businessmen (i.e. former Enron CEO Kenneth Lay and Jeffrey Skilling).

Stockmarket is a government sanctioned gambling just as auctioning of in-game WoW equipments are sanctioned by Blizzard (correct me if I am wrong).


By purchasing stock in a company you are essentially investing in something that you believe has the potential to make you money. If it doesn't make money, you don't make money. However in WoW, you are investing money in something that has zero return potential on it. Unless of course you're the type who likes to sell characters on eBay.

Either way, purchasing WoW gold encourages more farmers to go out and get more gold to sell [supply and demand]. The more gold people have the more items start to cost. The more those items cost, the more gold people need/buy to afford those items. That can ruin it for people who don't buy gold.

[madog]

With regard to twinking (which is a term reserved for the act of transferring nice equipments to a low level character under the same account), how how easy is it in WoW? Is there a safe way to do it all by yourself or must you rely on a buddy or someone you can trust?


Horde characters can send gold/items to other Horde characters including any that are on your account. Alliance characters can do the same.

Items take an hour to send through the mail, gold is instant.

Exception: BoP or Bind on Pickup items. These items are bound to that character once they are picked up and can only be sold to a merchant. Furthermore there are BoE items which bind to the character once they are equipped but can be traded before.

The only cross-faction method of trading is through the third Auction House located in a nuetral town. I believe same account trades through this AH are not possible.

[ScarletRed]

You can send gold to another character in the mail if they are the same faction and there are ways to get gold to the other faction if you have one on the other side but it can be dangerous (ie you could lose your money). The really good items are all BOE or BOP (Bind on Equip, Bind on Pickup) and can't be traded so money is the main way that characters can be twinked...Because of the mail system you don't have to transfer any items or gold by hand if you don't want to...
So then what are these items for sale outside the game? If they really are BoE & BoP, then obviously you cannot sell them....unless you sell the account. And based on what madog has stated about the negative impact this could have on in-game economy, I can only hope that Blizzard won't and doesn't sanction out-of-game equipment/account sales and enforce such policy very harshly.

[ScarletRed]

I noticed that WoW website has added two new races for a new total of 8 instead of 6 it used to be. Are these additions already in effect or are they for the upcoming expansion pack later this year?

To my knowledge, there hasn't been any expansion packs released for WoW as of yet, but as I am not in the game, I don't know this for sure...

Oh, and sorry for bombarding you guys with so many questions. I know I tend to ask a lot and drive others nuts sometimes. :)

[madog]

So then what are these items for sale outside the game? If they really are BoE & BoP, then obviously you cannot sell them....unless you sell the account. And based on what madog has stated about the negative impact this could have on in-game economy, I can only hope that Blizzard won't and doesn't sanction out-of-game equipment/account sales and enforce such policy very harshly.

Blizzard has recently banned around 30,000 [I believe that was the number] for buying/selling gold. They would mark the farmer and track the gold he sent through the in game mail system. I believe buying gold is in violation of WoW's ToS [terms of service] though I'm sure it's not easy to find everyone who does it.

As for selling items outside the game. It is possible with BoE items as they only become soulbound [bound to a character] once they are equipped. So they can be traded or sold at anytime until a player equips it [in which case a dialog pops up asking if you are sure]. I just checked eBay and I couldn't find any items being sold. Mainly it is gold, power leveling, and characters at level 60 or with high PvP ranks. I don't imagine much items are sold through eBay either as it would be as profitable as selling gold and such.

[HiRez]

I have leveled a paladin, a druid, and a mage so far (with others part-way). The druid was definitely the most fun. Can dish out good damage in feral form (I was full feral specced with 25% crit), and tank and be a defensive force in bear form, can heal almost as well as a priest, and get some other useful abilities, plus probably the game's best general buff, Mark of the Wild. Paladin was neat because he could take on 3-5 enemies at once and survive it. But without full Retribution talents and epic gear, paladins take a long time to level because they have the lowest DPS in the game generally. Mages are fun (mine is frost-specced) but they tend to have a lot of downtime inbetween battles, drinking to replenish mana. You can definitely level any class all the way to 60 without every grouping once, although it's a bit easier and more fun if you do group up sometimes (you pretty much have to for all the instance dungeons, although you could skip these if you really wanted to).

Some general tips I would give you:

-- Try a bunch of different classes and races (and even sexes). The experience can be quite different, and each person has things they prefer. One person I roll with just loves hunters, she has at least 5 of them. Me, I like to be able to heal myself so I tend to go for healer types. Try to get them up to at least level 30, since many of the class' defining abilities do not become available/effective until that time. Even if you don't end up playing that class forever, it's good to have the "insiders" perspective which will help you understand the other classes when you group with them and how to best interact with them in battle. Play on both the Alliance and Horde sides. I was surprised how interesting playing a Horde member was once I finally tried it. It's neat to see things from "the other side", and you'll get to see parts of the game world you won't from the other faction.

-- Don't be afraid of grouping. You'll have some bad experiences in groups, that's unavoidable, just try to be nice and in the end karma will reward you by meeting some cool people. Start grouping early, as early as your first 10 levels. When you get used to it early, you get to learn about the group dynamics and class roles when everyone else is. If you wait til the end to group, you're going to generally be in higher-pressure situations where people are expected to know their roles and have some "game".

-- Join a guild. Not just any guild, wait until you meet some people you like and they invite you. You'll end up getting a lot of nice weapons and armor from your guildmates (even hand-me-downs can be nice), plus extra resources for crafting skills, and being in a guild will facilitate finding groups for instances (and having someone you know with you is usually better than a random PUG, or pickup group).

-- Take up Skinning and either Herbalism or Mining early in the game, these are pretty easy ways to make good money. Later on you can drop one for a crafting profession (Alchemy, Blacksmithing, Enchanting, etc.)

-- Auction every non-grey (grey color text for an item indicates it's crap, usually) item you can instead of selling to the vendor, it'll add up over time. Herbs are great to auction because the auction fee for them is very low so there is little penalty for a failed auction.

-- No matter what class you're playing, start First Aid early and continue to level it. It can and will be a lifesaver at some point. Cooking is also useful for just about every class, even those who can heal themselves (cooked food can provide stat bonuses).

-- To optimize your leveling while soloing, you should be fighting mobs 1-4 levels below your level. You can kill stuff of a higher level than you, but generally it's going to take a lot more time and the extra experience you get won't be worth it.

-- Alternate between serveral characters to maintain "rested state". When your character is rested, they gain experience from grinding monsters (where the majority of your experience comes from) at 2X the unrested rate. By playing two or three characters you can always be getting this bonus, switching to another when they become unrested.

-- Try a roleplaying (RP) server if that interests you. Even if you don't do much roleplaying, I find the people on those servers are a little nicer and more helpful, in general. There are both PvE RP and PvP RP servers.

-- Try really hard to take breaks. Seriously. Rest your eyes and hands and fingers every once in a while. Take some long breaks when you start getting frustrated with the game, just shut it down for a week or so. You'll be surprised how much more you appreciate it when you come back and what a better state of mind you'll be in.

-- Install addons. These can make your life a lot easier in so many ways I can't even begin to count. Some of my favorites are BuffAhoy, BestBuff, FlightTracker, Recap, Persistence of Chattiness, LocationCoordinates, Gatherer, GathererShare, ItemRack, flagRSP, and Auctioneer. Try Curse-Gaming (http://www.curse-gaming.com/en/wow/addons.html) and ui.worldofwar.net/ (http://ui.worldofwar.net/)

-- The most important thing, bookmark Thottbot (http://www.thottbot.com). This is an invaluable resource that can answer lots of questions (How much can I sell this dagger for? Where do I find silver mines? Where are the monsters I'm supposed to be killing for this quests? What quests should I be working on in this zone? What zones should I go to next for my level?)

NOTE: the two additional races and are part of the expansion pack, not yet released (probably around Christmas but with Blizzard who knows).

[ScarletRed]

Thank you for the many helpful hints and suggestions. When and if I decide to take up WoW, they'll be invaluable.

[madog]

Thank you for the many helpful hints and suggestions. When and if I decide to take up WoW, they'll be invaluable.

After all of this info you'd better at least try it!

I hope I didn't browse macrumors all day at work for nothin'! :p

My boss was getting suspicious. :cool:

[ScarletRed]

After all of this info you'd better at least try it!

I hope I didn't browse macrumors all day at work for nothin'! :p

My boss was getting suspicious. :cool:
Your boss? On Sunday? You are at work on Sunday?

If it was free or if they offered some kind of a trial period, then I'd give it a try.

Anyway, I did an online search for World of Warcraft Mac. It seems there's only one version of this game as I didn't see one specifically made for Mac OS X.

[ScarletRed]

Thanks to invaluable inputs from HiRez, madog, ddrueckhammer, and hundreds of reviewers from Amazon.com, I think I have gathered enough information on the World of Warcraft to decide whether it is a worthy investment for a long term MMORPG. The WoW can be summarized as follows:

1. The game is a blast to play for levels 1-59. Depending on the number of hours you devote into the game, it can take you anywhere from 4 weeks to 3 months to reach level 60.
2. Once you reach level 60, it's a whole new ballgame. Majority of the updates and game contents are only for Level 60 hard-core players.
3. Hard-core players are those affiliated with rairders guild where members devote considerable amount of time into the game to gain access to special instances that are catered for large parties. And these special instances are the only way to obtain best gears.
4. Unless you are a hardcore player who spends at least 4-6 hrs daily in the game, you don't stand a chance of obtaining some of the best class-specific equipments the game has to offer. Thus, you will be missing out on most of the high level contents.
5. Ordinary players like me (and lot of others out there) who don't/can't spend more than 4 hrs per day on weekdays are not likely to be admitted to big guilds because they are only interested in hard core players who are willing to devote large amount of time in the game to accompany the party to special instanced dungeons.

It sounds like WoW is really not that different from other MMORPGs out there. Big on hype, yet falls short of expectations.

I think I'll pass. I am only interested in long term MMORPGs (1+ yr) and I've determinded that WoW is not it.

[madog]

Your boss? On Sunday? You are at work on Sunday?

If it was free or if they offered some kind of a trial period, then I'd give it a try.

Anyway, I did an online search for World of Warcraft Mac. It seems there's only one version of this game as I didn't see one specifically made for Mac OS X.

Yup, just got home :p

I try to get in most of my 'net time at work since I'm stuck to a 56k at home. And if I wasn't about to go buy a Nintendo DS Lite I'd get cable internet back :o

As for longevity, I feel I got my fun out of WoW. For about 5 months I got my character to level 60 with alternates to about 40 and played pretty much all of the soloable content. After that, 40 man raids were not an option on my outdated G4. Good thing though, because I would most likely be playing it right now and be socially retarded.

Anyway, as great as Blizzard is [most of the time] it is most definitely out for OS X/XP only. They did their standard simultaneous release for the OS's and made it into one nice package. That, coupled with the "ease" of WoW has contributed greatly to it's success. The other MMORPG's that came to Mac were too little too late. I think they are still updating the code for Intel Mac's and as far as I know runs natively on them, but I'm not sure how optimized the code is right now.

Also, I have heard that there IS a demo/trail version of WoW. Also, you could get the CD's from a friend and use the guest pass. It gives you 10 days of free play. After that, you need to purchase the game yourself in order to get a unique CD key in which you can continue your account that you created using the guest pass.

And one more thing: yes, hardcore players rule WoW. Equipment > spec of character > skill of player. At least 4-5 hours spent with your guild raiding/farming the same content over and over again in order to get the best equipment which then allows you to go to the next dungeon to farm and get the best equipment so you can do it all again for the next end game dungeon. Rinse. Wash. Repeat until dead or broke.

[ScarletRed]

After that, 40 man raids were not an option on my outdated G4. Good thing though, because I would most likely be playing it right now and be socially retarded.

Anyway, as great as Blizzard is [most of the time] it is most definitely out for OS X/XP only. They did their standard simultaneous release for the OS's and made it into one nice package. That, coupled with the "ease" of WoW has contributed greatly to it's success. ...
So to make sure I understand this correctly, you mean to tell me that the same CD (or is it a DVD?) that will install on a PC will also install on a Mac because the both versions are on a same disc?

And it sounds as if you are going to quit WoW very soon... Am I correct to presume so?

[Mord]

be prepared to be shunned if your a paly, i refuse to take paladins with me on quests as the always without fail are either retarded or they steal loot and run away, they are the official n00b class, i'd go with a priest or a rouge.

[HiRez]

be prepared to be shunned if your a paly, i refuse to take paladins with me on quests as the always without fail are either retarded or they steal loot and run away, they are the official n00b class, i'd go with a priest or a rouge.Well...I don't doubt you've had bad experiences with paladins, there are a lot of bad ones out there, but there's some good ones too and they can be a valuable addition to the right party. I know I've never stolen loot or run away. And I've seen more than my share of lamer rogues too, when you look up ninja looter in the dictionary, there is a picture of a Night Elf Rogue right there. Priests not so much, for some reason they seem to appeal less to losers/n00bs/idiots.

[Mord]

rouges tend not to be stupid, if i must go with a paladin I tend to make them do some basic maths to prove they are not below 14 or so, rouges tend to be usefull and if you get talking to them and are friendly enough to chat about other things dureing an instance run they are less likely to do a runner with a locked chest.

[Quantum Man]

ScarletRed, yes both versions for PC and Mac are on the same discs, 5 CDs. Blizzard has been doing this for all their games, Diablo, StarCraft, Warcraft games.

As far as not being able to get good gear if you don't play at least 6 hours a day, that's not true. Depending on your class and profession, you can craft your own armor, and some very very good armor at that. Plenty of great gear also drops in the regular 5-man instances which can take 1-2 hours to do.

Don't think you can't have a great time playing this game if you don't devote countless hours to it. You still can. I wouldn't pass this up just because of the stereotype of hard-core end game raiding guilds and hard-core members only get the good gear. If you learn how to make gold for yourself vis a vis your professions or other means, you can buy good gear on the Auction Hall as well.

If you know anyone that has a copy of the game, they can give you the 10-day free trial for you to try out.

[ChrisWB]

be prepared to be shunned if your a paly, i refuse to take paladins with me on quests as the always without fail are either retarded or they steal loot and run away, they are the official n00b class, i'd go with a priest or a rouge.I agree with this. When I played paladins were typically played by the slow crowd. As a priest, I would have to teach paladins how to act as tanks in sub-40 instances.

I also agree with Scarlet's impression of the game for the most part. It gets boring quite quickly as every bit is the same until you're 60.

[Mord]

i know, with my priest i tended to end up tanking as the paladin refused to and just did his own thing.

yes, a priest tanking, i had a **** load of extra stamina from gear but still...

[ddrueckhammer]

To be honest, it sounds like you really just don't like online RPGs. The complaints you have about them apply to all of them to some degree.

1. The game is a blast to play for levels 1-59. Depending on the number of hours you devote into the game, it can take you anywhere from 4 weeks to 3 months to reach level 60.

Most people I have talked to enjoy level 60 content as much or more than 1-59. It is just different...

2. Once you reach level 60, it's a whole new ballgame. Majority of the updates and game contents are only for Level 60 hard-core players.

This is untrue. There is plenty of good content for level 60s but don't expect to always get into a 40 man raid without a guild...

3. Hard-core players are those affiliated with rairders guild where members devote considerable amount of time into the game to gain access to special instances that are catered for large parties. And these special instances are the only way to obtain best gears.

No you can obtain good gear by leveling up your profession, buying some, or even in 5-10 man instances which don't require a good guild. The best of the best gear is found in 40 man raids or from honor points obtained through PvP kills in battlegrounds but very good gear can be found outside this system.

4. Unless you are a hardcore player who spends at least 4-6 hrs daily in the game, you don't stand a chance of obtaining some of the best class-specific equipments the game has to offer. Thus, you will be missing out on most of the high level contents.

It is possible to get into 40 man raids without a guild, but as you can imagine, they reserve the spots for guild members first...I have heard of smaller guilds teaming up to do 40 man raids so it is possible to be in a small guild and experience this...

5. Ordinary players like me (and lot of others out there) who don't/can't spend more than 4 hrs per day on weekdays are not likely to be admitted to big guilds because they are only interested in hard core players who are willing to devote large amount of time in the game to accompany the party to special instanced dungeons.

Well the thing is that the large raids can take 4 hours to complete so if you can't spend that time they don't want you to quit in the middle of a game..


For what an online RPG cost you can save your pennies and get one of the consoles out there. If graphics aren't important to you I would recommend getting a DS Lite or Wii when they come out as they are very very fun. Xbox 360s are nice but they are a whole different level of monetary commitment since you need a HD TV to get those great graphics. The PS3 IMHO will be flat out overpriced so that isn't an option for most. Finally, another great game that can be had for cheap these days is UT2004 for Mac. It is really fun and you can play 30 minutes or less a day and have fun with it. You have to like online FPS action though...

[ScarletRed]

Thanks for the input, ddrueckhammer. I'll consider it.

Only RPGs, SRPGs, and MMORPGs genres interest me. I shun FPSs or anything that requires clickfest.

Suppose I sign up for WoW and after about a couple of months or so, I deactivate my account. How long will Blizzard keep my account and character information saved on file?

Recommendations Needed on followings:

World of Warcraft Official Strategy Guide (Brady's): Buy or No Buy?

World of Warcraft Atlas Gift Pack: Buy or No Buy?

[weldon]

I saw a couple questions that maybe didn't answered fully...

Killstealing - can't really happen in WoW because you "tag" a mob as soon as you do some damage to it. At that point, it's portrait icon becomes greyed out for anyone else indicating that they won't get experience if they kill it. I've found that this system actually encourages the opposite result of killstealing where I will finish off a mob for a lower level character if they are in trouble because I know they will still get the experience points for fighting it.

UI Mods - I would recommend Titan Panel, Auctioneer, and Gatherer. I find those mods are really useful and a good place to start. I also use FishingBuddy because I like having my secondary skills maxed out.

Main & Alt - play with a main character and an alternate on the same server and make them the same faction (Horde or Alliance) and two different classes. You'll get the rested bonus mentioned earlier and you can send gear that one can't use to the other. You can also create some synergies with professions (eg. your skinning toon can supply your leatherworking toon).

Professions - definitely take the gathering professions early on in the game. It is probably best to take skinning and either mining or herbalism. If you're really interested in one of the crafting professions, you can change drop one of the two professions and add it later or you can pick that profession with one of your alts. In some respects it's best to have your main be the gatherer because they will have access to high level zones where the high-level resources/materials are found.

Secondary Skills - Secondary skills can be really useful, but it's almost easier to just power level these once you get to level 40+. I got cooking and fishing together (by getting the fish recipes) and first aid up to 300 (the max) in about 4 hours of game time. Most of that time was spent fishing because it's a slow process. You can power level first aid in under an hour of game play if you have money and the flight paths to the trauma surgeon trainers. Having a high skill level in first aid is really useful in certain situations because you can heal 1000+ HP in seconds between fights.

Trial version - If you PM me, I can send you a key for a 10-day trial. You have to download the 4GB client (better have fast broadband) and then buy the full game to convert to a standard account. I would get a free month of play once you buy a new month of gameplay. Of course, almost anyone can refer you and give out the 10-day key (there is a limit so some might not have any referrals left). You might prefer to give that referral credit to someone that answered your questions earlier, but I thought I would offer.

[ScarletRed]

UI Mods - I would recommend Titan Panel, Auctioneer, and Gatherer. I find those mods are really useful and a good place to start. I also use FishingBuddy because I like having my secondary skills maxed out.
I have no idea what you mean by Titan Panel and Gatherer UI Mods. Are you saying that the WoW game screen can be configured by downloading some kind of user interface modules?

Trial version - If you PM me, I can send you a key for a 10-day trial. You have to download the 4GB client (better have fast broadband) and then buy the full game to convert to a standard account. I would get a free month of play once you buy a new month of gameplay. Of course, almost anyone can refer you and give out the 10-day key (there is a limit so some might not have any referrals left). You might prefer to give that referral credit to someone that answered your questions earlier, but I thought I would offer.
Thank you for the offer. I will consider it. :)

[weldon]

I say "no" to the game guide and the atlas. I don't think you need the strategy guide because you'll learn as you go. I don't have the strategy guide myself, so I'm not really commenting on the quality of the guide as much as I don't think you really need a strategy guide for this game. There are some good guides and FAQ's on the Internet for different professions and classes.

What you really need is to bookmark thottbot.com (as was suggested earlier) if you get stuck on a quest.

I wouldn't get the atlas because part of the real fun of the game in the early levels (IMHO) is discovering things and watching your world map "fill-in" as you visit new areas. You can always get the Atlas later if you like but then it will be more sentimental than for game help. If you think you'll get stuck, you can always download the Atlas mod for free which gives you in-game access to some extra maps and information to help you get around.

[weldon]

I have no idea what you mean by Titan Panel and Gatherer UI Mods. Are you saying that the WoW game screen can be configured by downloading some kind of user interface modules?
Yes, the UI can be customized quite extensively. The layout can be changed, and some elements can be scripted to make things simpler. Here is some info on the mods that I recommended...

Titan Panel - kind of a framework for mods that adds two "bars" to the top and bottom of your screen where you can place info displays for useful information. Examples, EXP mod shows what you are averaging for exp per hour this session and how long till you reach your next level at the current rate. Really interesting because you will spend some time grinding. Loc shows your location in grid coordinates (just like /loc in EQ). Time can adjust the displayed server time to your local time zone. Gold shows how much you currently have and can show you what you started with this session and where you are at now and show you the average earned per hour. It's nifty and there are lots of other mods that use the Titan Panel framework to display their information.

check http://ui.worldofwar.net for the latest version

Gatherer - keeps track of either the mining or herbalism nodes that you find when using the related gathering profession. It expands on the built-in functionality by displaying the locations on your zone map so you can go back to places to find specific resources. The mod hooks into the UI by recording the location of the node when you right-click on it to gather the resource.

http://gathereraddon.com

Auctioneer - includes a database of NPC vendor prices for items in the game and also builds a database of auction prices as you "scan" the auctions as you play. This database of auction information becomes a valuable resource as you check to see what items are worth. You can check the value of an item against auctions that are on your server. A "tool tips" bubble appears when you mouseover an item and auctioneer adds all this extra information about prices to the info bubble. You can configure it to automatically set prices for items based on historical averages so you can get close to the full value for all items that you put up for sale at the auction house. Really, really useful.

http://auctioneeraddon.com

[ddrueckhammer]

I have no idea what you mean by Titan Panel and Gatherer UI Mods. Are you saying that the WoW game screen can be configured by downloading some kind of user interface modules?
Thank you for the offer. I will consider it. :)

You can modify your inferface with addons which can be downloaded from

http://www.curse-gaming.com/

You are getting alot of insider information here as most people play for a long time with the basic WoW interface before they mod it but it is worth doing if you are planning on raiding or PvPing. Bar mods are especially useful as it is very frustrating losing a duel because you have a slow interface..

I can't remember all of my mods but I liked: CTmod, CTraid, Gbars, Wardrobe, and some auction mod I can't remember the name of.

The problem is that if you enable too many addons then it will slow you down in big raids. For this reason, many hardcore raiders stick with one or two mods like CTraidassist..

The problem with kill stealing is not so much kill stealing (as it doesn't really exist in WoW) but pwrlevelers dominating a hunting area if you know what I mean...

I know what you mean about FPS, I normally only like RPGs and Strategy games but UT2K4 is a break from the norm for me because it is fun with its break-neck pace. The next big game I am looking forward to is FFIII (the only one that hasn't come to the US) for the DS Lite...

Goodluck again in WoW...

BTW, I would take him up on his 10 day trial if it were me...

[HiRez]

How long will Blizzard keep my account and character information saved on file?Supposedly they will keep your characters "on ice" for you indefinitely, although I'd check on this. But I have definitely read that.

I have no idea what you mean by Titan Panel and Gatherer UI Mods. Are you saying that the WoW game screen can be configured by downloading some kind of user interface modules?
Yep, Blizzard has included a very extensive system for extending WoW via third-party plugins, including their own sort of programming languange. There are some limitations in place to eliminate cheating (and Blizzard has done a very good job off shutting down cheating in WoW) but there's an enormous amount of flexibility of how you play the game via addons, Just to mention a few of thousands of things that are possible with the addon system:

-- Check vendor and average auction prices from anywhere in the world (shows up right in the item's tooltip). Rescan the auction house for the latest prices.

-- Mark all the gathering nodes (herbs, ore veins) on your map and minimap so you can see what you've gathered and know where to return to for the best odds of finding more. Also can link your gathering to everyone else in the world if you're feeling altruistic (although you get back too, getting to see the nodes they've discovered).

-- Completely reconfigure how action buttons (and other UI elements) are seen on your screen. Change their size and layout, add more, etc.

-- Swap out entire sets of gear on your character with a single click (switch from a healing set to a tanking set or PvP set), for example.

-- Semi-automate buffing a group (or raid). If you have to manually buff 5, 10, or 40 people every 30 minutes or less you're going to be hating life. Also some addons will automatically select the proper level (or most efficient level) of a spell to cast depending on who you have targetted).

-- Tally comprehensive stats on your combat including, damage dealt, damage taken, healing performed and taken, breakdown of which spells or attacks contributed which % of your DPS, etc. This can be useful for analyzing yourself. Let's say I'm wondering whether I want to put points into a talent that increases my damage from using wands. Well, if I check my battle stats and find that my wand is only doing 3% of my total damage, I know it's probably not worth sinking 5 talent points into. If I'm doing 30% of my damage with my wand, it probably is worth it. You can also see the stats for everyone in your party, including pets, as well as stats for the monsters you face. Let's say your facing a mixed group of like-level mobs, plague hounds and plague bats. If I look and see that the hounds are doing 50 DPS but the bats are doing 35 DPS, I know which I want to get rid of first when I pull some of each.

-- Lots of other stuff.

So addons are almost essential in my opinion. They are easy to install (you just drag the downloaded folder into your WoW/Interface/AddOns folder), however there are a few drawbacks to them:

1. You have to update them manually. This can take a lot of time when you have a lot of them.

2. They use RAM, some of them hardly anything, some use quite a lot. My addons are currently using 48 MB of RAM, and I don't even have that many installed.

3. When new WoW versions come out, they can break addons, which need to be fixed before you can use them again. Sometimes what's broken when something isn't working can be a vexing problem to figure out.

4. Some addons can conflict with other addons. In my experience this is rare unless you're trying to install two of them that do the same thing, but it can happen.

5. Some mods can slow down play. Most don't but some can (or too many loaded).

6. If you get used to your setup and them for some reason have to play on a stock setup, you're screwed. :)

[ScarletRed]

*Sigh* So much information, so overwhelming and intimidating... I'm going to be a so clueless when and if I ever sign up.

Right now, I am having enough trouble as it is trying to understand the talent/skills (http://www.thottbot.com/?ti=Rogue) build. This alone could easily take me weeks to figure out.

[HiRez]

*Sigh* So much information, so overwhelming and intimidating... I'm going to be a so clueless when and if I ever sign up.

Right now, I am having enough trouble as it is trying to understand the talent/skills (http://www.thottbot.com/?ti=Rogue) build. This alone could easily take me weeks to figure out.I wouldn't worry about it too much, most people are clueless when they start. It's a lot easier figuring it out while you're playing than it is to read about it. And don't worry about making mistakes, I just go with whatever talents seem useful at the time and end up respeccing later once I understand the class better. Also you can check out the WoW forums (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/), where you will find a mountain of general and class-specific advice (good and bad).

[homerjward]

since yall are talking about wow addons/mods, i had a question about one i saw. my friend has a mod that shows how much health/mana/whatever enemies have in their icon, and when you mouse over a monster it will show their health, class, what experience youll get, etc. but he couldnt remember what it was called. anyone know?

[ScarletRed]

HiRez and ddrueckhammer,

Do you think Blizzard will ever release all-in-one DVD version of this game that has both WoW and the upcoming expansion sometime in the next year?

[ScarletRed]

Chances are that the mod you're looking for is one of these:

Most Popular Mods (from one of the WoW forums):

Titan Panel (http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=860) (forms a little bar on top with a bunch of usefull information)
MyTitanBar (http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=1852) (a compilation of Titan Panel and AddOns)
Discord Action Bars (http://www.discordmods.com/) (very configurable bar mod)
Discord Unit Frames (http://www.discordmods.com/) (mod your info, party info, pet info, etc
HitsMode (http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=467) (makes combat chat a lot more readable)
CleanMinimap (http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=1521) (make your minimap pretty)
Warsong Commander (http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=1716) (WSG helper)
Atlas (http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=539) (a bunch of maps for instances)
Gatherer (http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=44) (keeps track of mining veins, herb locations and treasure)
AllInOneInventory (http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=117) (have all your bags into one)
MonkeyQuest (http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=343) (keeps track of quests)
Flexbar (http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=42) (96 buttons at your disposal)
ScrollingCombatText (http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=222) (a combat text at the center of your screen)
Auctioneer (http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=146) (keeps track of the Auction House prices)
Reputation (http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=299) (numerical values that describe how much reputation you have with each faction)
CTRaidAssist (http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=694) (a must have for Raids)
QuuSpellAlert (http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=1001) (displays a message alert informing you of the spell being cast)
StatusBar (http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=388) (keeps track of your health/mana/energy/combo points and mob health/mana)
CoolDownCount (http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=33) (shows a cooldown timer for each ability)
MoveAnything (http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=601) (allows you to move pretty much everything on your screen)

[ddrueckhammer]

I wouldn't worry about it too much, most people are clueless when they start. It's a lot easier figuring it out while you're playing than it is to read about it. And don't worry about making mistakes, I just go with whatever talents seem useful at the time and end up respeccing later once I understand the class better. Also you can check out the WoW forums (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/), where you will find a mountain of general and class-specific advice (good and bad).

This is good advice. For allocating talent points, just put them where they seem like they will do the most damage while leveling. When you understand the class better you can respec for cheap...

For instance for druids, you can see druid talent specs like 0/21/30 Hybrid. This is a very common spec indicating 0 balance, 21 feral, 30 restoration. Many times the three numbers are dropped for a name like HOTW for druids which indicates that the druid has enough talent points in Feral to have this talent, making them mainly a feral druid.

Choosing talents for a druid becomes very complicated depending on how you choose to shapeshift and attack. For instance, you might wonder why anyone would want a talent that creates more threat as a druid but if you are primarily a feral druid who uses bear form then you want as much threat as possible so that casters don't pull agro from you. Druids eventually can heal themselves in bear form or if they are good shift into human form for a quick heal (its a better heal) and back to bear or cat depending on the number and difficulty of the mob. Or you could go a completely different way and be a Moonkin or a Resto druid...I am just using druids as an example to show how complicated it can be. You can spend ages on the talent calcuators on WorldofWarcraft.com just playing with specs. Even after you respec sometimes you won't know how it works until you try it out.

All in all, don't worry about talents until you are in your 40s or even 59 then go respec because you will have a better idea of how you want to play your class. For instance, I put everthing into Feral until I was in my 40s so that I could fight one mob after another and level very quickly. However, I got bored with this and respeced to full Resto so that I could heal instances 5 to 10 levels higher than me and level this way. It was more fun for me than grinding all day every day...From what I understand druid talents have been changed since I played my druid last (I quit playing my druid sometime in the Spring to work on alts and then decided to quit playing altogether a few months later because it was affecting my schoolwork) so I would have to go check them out to see if I would need to repec again...

HiRez and ddrueckhammer,

Do you think Blizzard will ever release all-in-one DVD version of this game that has both WoW and the upcoming expansion sometime in the next year?

I can see them doing this but not in the next year....

since yall are talking about wow addons/mods, i had a question about one i saw. my friend has a mod that shows how much health/mana/whatever enemies have in their icon, and when you mouse over a monster it will show their health, class, what experience youll get, etc. but he couldnt remember what it was called. anyone know?

I think that CTmod might be able to do this but don't hold me to it. Go to www.curse-gaming.com (http://www.curse-gaming.com) and look for it. I'm sure what you are thinking of is there somewhere.

[ScarletRed]

Mage and Rogue are two of my favorite class. These are the two I played when I was playing Everquest many years ago. When and if I do take up WoW, I'll most certainly play this two classes exclusively. With this in mind, do you have any advice that will come in handy for playing these two classes? (FYI, I have already browsed thru WoW forums on these classes).

And as for buying Official Atlas and Strategy guides being not necessary, it would make sense. Afterall, Blizzard keeps changing the rules of the game which in turn will probably have an impact (to a varying degree) on strategy.

[Mord]

mages are decent but they cant heal themselves so tend to die allot, potions have cooldown so you cant guzzle them like with D2.

[ddrueckhammer]

Mage and Rogue are two of my favorite class. These are the two I played when I was playing Everquest many years ago. When and if I do take up WoW, I'll most certainly play this two classes exclusively. With this in mind, do you have any advice that will come in handy for playing these two classes? (FYI, I have already browsed thru WoW forums on these classes).

And as for buying Official Atlas and Strategy guides being not necessary, it would make sense. Afterall, Blizzard keeps changing the rules of the game which in turn will probably have an impact (to a varying degree) on strategy.

You will level faster as a rogue but mages are more powerful in endgame and are more sought after for instances. Rogues can be useful but can also get a party killed...Don't be one of those rogues...Rogues are one of the best PvP classes though and mages can be too...

[ScarletRed]

I have an important question about spellcasting for mages. In Everquest, as long as you are locked onto a target, you don't have to be facing them to cast a spell. As long as the target-lock is engaged, you can cast a spell with your back turned to the target. This has a huge impact on kiting (via solo). When combined with spell items/equipments such as Boots of Speed that bestow permanent run speed boost, kiting becomes very viable and practical.

Kiting isn't as useful for archers because after running for a while, you need to stop, turn around, and aim to fire at your target. These can take up valuable time during which the chasing mob/enemy can catch up with you. Mages didn't have this problem, making them very soloable class.

I wonder if spellcasting in WoW is similar as it was in Everquest...


1. Another important question I need to ask: How does a mage's attack spell range compare to that of a ... hunter?

2. How does a character's run speed compare to those of mobs? Does a character's run speed depend on his/her Agility score?

3. Are there any items in the game that affect one's run speed?

[weldon]

Rogues are fun. My alt is a rogue and it's amazing how well they do because DPS is so high. I have found that there is very little down time with a rogue.

My main is a mage. The big choice here is between fire or frost specialization. I started out fire and after the recent patch switched to frost. It's fully viable to spend your talent points one way and then respec. This makes it kinda fun to relearn your class. My point is, don't worry overmuch about which type to start with - you'll actually enjoy changing later.

Your attack range can be improved with certain talents (which are among the most important talents IMHO). With these talents maxed, I can typically get 2-3 fireballs off or 3-4 frost bolts (because of the frost slow down effect). Fire does higher damage and has better DPS, but frost can improve your chances to crit (shatter talent) and survivability with armor improvements and some "in case of emergency" spells like ice block and ice barrier.

It's not uncommon to get a mob down to half-health before he reaches you. Here's the strategy I use... start at max range with fireballs or frostbolts, frost nova (think root) when the mob reaches me, run SIDEWAYS (this is the key because running sideways is full speed) fireball or frostbolt again at max range and then finish with instant cast spells when the mob reaches you again. I typically take 2-3 hits from the mob during this procedure. Sometimes I don't lose any health.

To keep downtime to a minimum, I use evocation to restore mana, first aid to restore health, always keep a mana jewel equipped, use potions and jewels during fights, and use food and water in between fights.

You must be standing still and you must be facing the mob when you finish casting for most ranged spells. Arcane missiles will automatically turn you as the mob runs away which is helpful for those mobs that run straight through you to get away. You can start a spell while facing away and turn towards the mob so that you are facing it when you finish casting.

[Badradio]

Mage and Rogue are two of my favorite class. These are the two I played when I was playing Everquest many years ago. When and if I do take up WoW, I'll most certainly play this two classes exclusively.
These are both great classes, but the choice depends on your play style. Mages are in demand for groups (though nowhere near as much as priests) while rogues are great for soloing. On my server, the number of LFM messages that specify "No Rogues" is noticeable. I play a mage as my primary and they're one of the best classes. I wouldn't rule out priests as an alternative caster class though - they can own almost any class in pvp.

[ScarletRed]

You must be standing still and you must be facing the mob when you finish casting for most ranged spells. Arcane missiles will automatically turn you as the mob runs away which is helpful for those mobs that run straight through you to get away. You can start a spell while facing away and turn towards the mob so that you are facing it when you finish casting.
If you must face a mob to cast, then why not go with a petless hunter? Don't hunters have longer radius of attack than mages do?

And does running speed depend on your character's Agility score?

To Badradio,

What does LFM mean? I am not familiar with that lingo.

[AoWolf]

If you must face a mob to cast, then why not go with a petless hunter? Don't hunters have longer radius of attack than mages do?

And does running speed depend on your character's Agility score?

To Badradio,

What does LFM mean? I am not familiar with that lingo.

No hunters do not have a longer attack range and no running speed has nothing to do with agility.

LFM = Looking for More

[Badradio]

If you must face a mob to cast, then why not go with a petless hunter? Don't hunters have longer radius of attack than mages do?
Because all of a hunter's skill is in the pet (invites flaming from hunters :D ). Their DPS without a pet is not enough to compete against the other classes.
The only things I know that increase runnning speed are the rogue's sprint ability (fixed duration with long cooldown) or an enchantment you can get on boots that gives about a 3% increase. Oh, and druids get a travel form that gives them a 60% boost, but with the limits of being in that form (not sure if you can cast spells or attack - never played a druid high enough).

Nearly forgot: Hunters have a minimum range. You get inside that fast and it's all over - even with casters.

[Mord]

ironically i left WoW because i could never find groups without spending half an hour in ironforge spamming and both my main and alt were priests. (one holy dwarf one NE shadow.

[ScarletRed]

Hector,

Were you in a guild? Correct me if I am wrong but if you belong to a large guild, then finding a group is rather easy, no? Just like you, I too, experienced the same frustrations except that I played as a rogue and a mage (Everquest). And soloing is not practical in EQ if you have ever tried the game.


Badradio,

It seems rogues aren't very popular among players. Why is that? All those LFM messages not wanting rogues in their group implies there's a good reason. What reason(s) might that be? Since Rogues and Mages are two of my favorite class, if I were to sign up for WoW today, how do I know I won't experience the same problems I've had in Everquest?

[marcfiszman]

You're talking too much :)

Why don't you just play the game and find out if you like it?

[Badradio]

It seems rogues aren't very popular among players. Why is that? All those LFM messages not wanting rogues in their group implies there's a good reason.
Rogues are probably the most popular class, so they're always available to group as there are so damn many of them. It's rare to find a group that doesn't include one. Priests are one of the least popular, and one of the core group components (tank, dps, healer) so they're in high demand. If I get invited to a dungeon run, first thing I ask is "Do you have a healer already?" as it can take a long time to find one. A priest who knows how to play the class will never be short of a group to join.

Don't get me wrong though - rogues kick ass. If you want to take one to 60 and solo it most of the way, there's no better class.

[ddrueckhammer]

Oh, and druids get a travel form that gives them a 60% boost, but with the limits of being in that form (not sure if you can cast spells or attack - never played a druid high enough).


I had a 60 druid...Druids can only cast a couple of spells in animal form...a weak Heal over time in Bear and Faerie Fire which is a Debuff and is good for pulling while shifted. The increase in speed from Travel Form etc is nice but not necessisary because you will get your mount at 40 that is faster. The only thing better about travelform than mounts is that you can't get dismounted.

[ddrueckhammer]

Rogues are probably the most popular class, so they're always available to group as there are so damn many of them. It's rare to find a group that doesn't include one. Priests are one of the least popular, and one of the core group components (tank, dps, healer) so they're in high demand. If I get invited to a dungeon run, first thing I ask is "Do you have a healer already?" as it can take a long time to find one. A priest who knows how to play the class will never be short of a group to join.

Don't get me wrong though - rogues kick ass. If you want to take one to 60 and solo it most of the way, there's no better class.

The other thing about rogues is that other classes can do DPS almost as good and a bad rogue can get the entire group killed easily. If you are seen as a rogue in an instance you die don't bring the mobs back to your group...

I have played many of the classes in WoW and by far my favorites are Priest, Mage, Locks, and Druids. Priests aren't healbots while leveling in this game which is nice and druids are fun because they are so complicated and versitile. Out of these, Priests and Mages are best for endgame so I would choose one of these...

And I agree with the post earlier...you should just play...You won't know what you like until you do. WoW isn't comparable that much to Eq.

[HiRez]

One thing about hunters is that they're kind of screwed if they aggro anything that comes to chase them (that gets into their "dead zone" where they can't use their powerful ranged attacks). Although mages have weaker armor than hunters, they also have more tools at their disposal for these situations (Fire Blast for instant damage, Cone of Cold, Frost Nova, Blink, Mana Shield, Ice Barrier, Ice Block, Polymorph, Wand). So yeah, hunters really need their pets to be effective.

As far as druid speed goes, there is a Feral talent (Feline Swiftness) that increases cat form speed by 30% which is very useful. It works in stealth mode too, where your movement is normally slowed, but the problem is it only works outdoors, and many instances are not outside. They also get the Dash spell with which they can move up to +60% faster in cat form, which works anywhere but it only lasts 15 seconds and is on a 5 minute cooldown.

[ScarletRed]

While I was shopping for WoW online (yes, I decided to go for it), I found two ads on amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0744004055/ref=ord_cart_shr/002-8882576-8472041?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance&n=283155) website: Killer Guides (http://www.killerguides.com/guides/wow/guide/world-of-warcraft/hints?OVRAW=World%20of%20Warcraft%20Official%20Strategy%20Guide&OVKEY=world%20warcraft%20official%20strategy%20guide&OVMTC=standard) & World of Warcraft Mastery (http://www.worldofwarcraftmastery.com/indexy.html?OVRAW=World%20of%20Warcraft%20Official%20Strategy%20Guide&OVKEY=world%20of%20warcraft%20official%20strategy%20guide&OVMTC=standard). Has anyone here heard of them? Do you know of anyone who has purchased guides from either of the two? I wonder just how much of their claims is hype.

And then there's the brogame.com (http://www.brogame.com/world-of-warcraft-us-c-167.html) who promises to power-level your character and/or gold in exchange for real $$$. If I remember correctly, one of you guys have told me this sort of thing is illegal IAW WoW gaming rules set forth by Blizzard.

Anyway, BradyGames is releasing World of Warcraft Dungeon Companion (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0744006996/ref=pd_rvi_gw_3/002-8882576-8472041?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155) on July 12,2006. I know many of you advised me not to buy the strategy guide. But this isn't exactly a strategy guide. Its 464 pages of detailed data would make it an excellent reference book. What do you think?

Happy Fourth of July, everyone! I'm grilling some dry-aged black angus steaks marinated in my own special sauce. Yum!

[Mord]

www.thottbot.com

dont buy guides, thats such a silly thing to do.

[HiRez]

World of Warcraft Dungeon Companion (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0744006996/ref=pd_rvi_gw_3/002-8882576-8472041?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155) on July 12,2006. I know many of you advised me not to buy the strategy guide. But this isn't exactly a strategy guide. Its 464 pages of detailed data would make it an excellent reference book. What do you think?Well, not having seen this, I can't recommend or dissuade you from it. Certainly strategy guides aren't necessary and there's lots of reference material online, but I understand wanting to have it all in one nice printed package too. If you like that then go for it. Only problem with guide books apart from the extra $ is that they'll slip out of date somewhat as Blizzard updates the game (I know the original booklet that came with the game when I bought it is very out of date and inaccurate now). They've already made major changes to lots of the classes that really change strategies, although I'm sure the majority of the material still applies. Also consider it won't have any info about the expansion.

And yes, selling game gold and items for real money is against the TOS, but Blizzard can't shut everyone down. In fact, I doubt they have the legal authority to go after many of these people even if they wanted to, all they can do is ban accounts when they catch people (I'm not sure how they prove this).

[rumbletum]

Why would you want to power level your way through the game, kind of defeats the point doesn't it :confused:

[bobber205]

Sure wish there was some definite way to see how WoW would perform on my MacBook... :D

[AoWolf]

Any "guide" is likely to be out of date before it arrives at your house, stay away from them.

[weldon]

Sure wish there was some definite way to see how WoW would perform on my MacBook... :D
Download the 10-day trial from Fileplanet (I think you have to have a paid subscription?) or ask a friend to send you a referral (I have a few left that I can share, if you like).

[ScarletRed]

I finally bought the game. I should be receiving a few packages in the mail sometime during the last week of July. In the meantime, I would like to gather various resources to ensure my WoW experience goes smoothly. Among these is to find and download an appropriate software to monitor framerates. Does anyone here know what the program is called and where I can download it? There are lot of MacBook Pro owners here at macrumors.com who would be interested in finding out just how well WoW will run on their MBP.

Secondly, how do I go about finding out which of the WoW servers are the latest? At first, I thought I could tell their age by server population but this hasn't proven to be very reliable as even those with LOW population all day long still possesses many level 60 players.

[weldon]

appropriate software to monitor framerates.
You can hit ctrl-r to show it on screen, or you can use the performance module in Titan Panel to show high, low and average.

Secondly, how do I go about finding out which of the WoW servers are the latest? At first, I thought I could tell their age by server population but this hasn't proven to be very reliable as even those with LOW population all day long still possesses many level 60 players.
I'm not really sure, but I would check the "news" section on the web site to find the announcements for new servers. With paid character transfers now in effect, you might find high levels transferring from "full" servers to the new servers anyways. You will probably have fewer 60's though.

[HiRez]

I'd caution against signing up on a new server. The reliability will be unknown. Some servers are definitely better than others in this regard. Unless you're playing 18 hours a day, you're quickly going to have many level 60s before you get there anyway. You will have fewer people available to group with. And auctioning things will be difficult and chaotic with a small immature economy. Selling because there are not as many buyers, buying because there are fewer items and less competition. I also play on an Oceanic (Aus/NZ) server even though I'm in California because I'm a night owl and there's tons of people around in the middle of the night for me (which is their prime time). There are pros and cons to high/low populations on servers, but in my opinion it's a better overall experience to play on a high population server when there are a lot of people around. I would recommend Stormrage (US) as a good mature high-population PvE server with good reliability.

[Mord]

i used to play on earthen ring shadowsong and argent dawn on my old account (euro servers)

[Badradio]

I would recommend Stormrage (US) as a good mature high-population PvE server with good reliability.
A carebear server? Might as well roll a hunter.

Only joking ;), but the pvp/pve decision is one that needs making early, although ScarletRed sounds like an experienced player who will understand the implications.

My first toon was on a pve, and it's still there at lvl 24, which was where I got bored. Pvp is the best part of the game for me, and no battlegrounds either. If I want to grind honour, I'll head to The Barrens and start something. The new mods in patch 1.12 look like some more pvpers might be tempted out of the battlegrounds and into the big, dangerous world as well.

[lasuther]

I also recommend PvP servers. PvP is a whole aspect of the game that you would miss on a PvE server. During your first 20 levels of your character, you are in zones that are PvE. After that, everything is game. Sure, you'll get jumped and killed. But you'll also do some jumping and killing. Its hard at your lower levels, but you'll get help from other players and build good relationships. I recommend PvP servers so you can have the complete WoW experience.

[ScarletRed]

I'd caution against signing up on a new server.....You will have fewer people available to group with. And auctioning things will be difficult and chaotic with a small immature economy. Selling because there are not as many buyers, buying because there are fewer items and less competition.....There are pros and cons to high/low populations on servers, but in my opinion it's a better overall experience to play on a high population server when there are a lot of people around. I would recommend Stormrage (US) as a good mature high-population PvE server with good reliability.
Back six years ago, I chose a least populated server I could find for Everquest. Unlike now, I could devote considerably more time into MMORPGs back then and it wasn't long before I became the first player to max out on fletching (the art of making bows and arrows). Because of this, I've made a name for myself on that server and I made ton of money (game money and not real $$$), something I would not have been able to achieve had I logged into a high population server. In highly populated servers, competitions were fierce. So fierce, in fact, that for casual players such as myself, there would be virtually no chance of profiteering from trades against hard-core players who spends 12 hrs or more per day.

HiRez, you've given many good advice and while I respect your inputs, I must disagree with you in several areas:

1. Sometimes, fewer competition is a good thing. This gives other players a shot at the fame and fortune.

2. While most would tend to agree that it'd be easier to find players to group with on a highly populated server, my experience has been to the contrary. I found that the majority of the players in highly populated servers were hard-core and tightly knit guild members who did not deal much with outsiders. And because there were so many players at any given time, players could afford to be very choosy about whom they admit to the group. And if you happened to be one of those who did not play one of the holy trinity classes (i.e. warrior/tanker, priest/healer, and mage/nuker), it was very difficult to find a group at all. I found that on relatively unpopulated servers, players aren't very choosy about whom they group with as they tend to be thankful for finding someone to group at all.

3. Kill-stealings were rampant in highly populated servers. Too many times I've had high level players (mostly guilds) walk in on me and simply take over my hunting area without so much as asking, "May I?". And I frequently found myself (and the rest of my group) pushed aside by groups of rude and inconsiderate high level players (again, guild members) who simply decided to take over an occupied area deep down in some boss's lair, ruining any chance at the boss-level loots me and my group worked so hard for. Since I don't have the power to suspend or punish these undesirable players, the best I can do is to avoid them. And for that, least populated servers is the answer.

I wouldn't mind joining a guild consisting of mature and responsible players. HiRez, you sound like one. However, it appears that you only play on highly populated servers...

[ddrueckhammer]

One thing you should know is that the auction system on WoW is much better than Eq. It doesn't matter much about skill because there will always be players with the same skill as you in a profession. Whoever has the cheapest prices will sell the most. I say it doesn't really matter what kind of server you get on it will be fun. Just get a PvP one...if you try both, the PvP will be the more enjoyable experience. I came from PvE in Eq...

The only thing is if you choose PvP do the quests in Desolace instead of STV. You will get killed every five seconds there (this is in your 30s)...

[Badradio]

The only thing is if you choose PvP do the quests in Desolace instead of STV. You will get killed every five seconds there (this is in your 30s)...
Gankerthorn Vale :p. Love that place...
ScarletRed: your logic on server selection is sound, apart from one thing that may or may not be WoW-specific: Transfer Servers. My friends and I set up on a low-pop server, but didn't know that it had been opened and populated with transfers from high-pop servers. That means large, established guilds of high-level players coming across. On my server, Horde outnumber Alliance (very rare) and a lot of the Horde are pvp and high-level-raid-focussed. It's a strange demographic to play in - the battleground queues are messed up, but the economy is very strong. I'd recommend checking out the realm forums of any realm you're looking at joining to see what the vibe is before you roll there.

[HiRez]

Well the thing is, every server becomes a highly-populated server before too long, there are 6.5 million people playing WoW and expanding, they can't add servers fast enough. And, Blizzard encourages character transfers from high-pop to low-pop servers. So the time of immaturity and growing pains and the window for, as you put it, fame and fortune, for any server is limited. I just think grouping and buying/selling are easier with more people around, and I just think things are more interesting when the world is not completely empty (being a night owl I've gotten to experience this a lot). But as I said, there are pros and cons. I've played on both low-pop and high-pop servers, and I've not noticed much difference in the percentage of "hard-core" players around. However, I don't play on PvP servers much, it's just not my bag. So that is an aspect that definitely might affect your decision more than mine. If you want to try a new server, go for it. Most people end up with characters on multiple servers anyway.

[weldon]

Back six years ago, I chose a least populated server I could find for Everquest.
I think you are overly influenced by EQ and shouldn't worry so much about server pop in WoW. I started EQ when it first opened (I was in on the beta) and was one of the early players to reach the max in fletching. The tradeskills work differently in WoW. Many trades produce goods that are useful to many players so there is a bigger market to sell to. Anyone can max a profession at level 35 so it's not that hard to max out a trade. Most of the big money is made in trading blue or purple items anyways.

Killstealing is not a problem in WoW. And over-camping certain areas is alleviated by instances and the wide variety of locations that are suitable for different levels.

There are always people to group with if you really want to. If not, there are always areas that you can solo. You just have to be smart about where you go when alone.

[Mord]

kill stealing is impossible in WoW as if you are grouped you take turns looting and rare items are rolled for on a need/greed basis if your out on your own the person who lays the first blow gets the loot and EXP.

[Gasu E.]

ironically i left WoW because i could never find groups without spending half an hour in ironforge spamming and both my main and alt were priests. (one holy dwarf one NE shadow.

On my server priests can find groups at will for most instances.

[Gasu E.]

Hector,
It seems rogues aren't very popular among players. Why is that? All those LFM messages not wanting rogues in their group implies there's a good reason. What reason(s) might that be? Since Rogues and Mages are two of my favorite class, if I were to sign up for WoW today, how do I know I won't experience the same problems I've had in Everquest?

The problem with rogues is that they are a very popular class to play (as are hunters, at least for Alliance on my server). I've never seen an LFM saying "We don't like rogues" (except for some very specific quests); but an instance group can usually fill the rogue slot right away. Healers, tanks, and dps casters are harder to find, with healers the toughest roles to fill.

[Josh]

Another problem with groups not looking for rogues (mostly at end-game instances) is that rogues don't offer much utility to the group.

Rogues can do a ton of damage, but a warrior who specs fury can meet or excede a rogue's damage. All this while being able to take much more damage than a rogue.

Rogues cannot heal, cannot buff group members, have low HP and die fast if they don't manage agrro correctly. Because of this, rogues often will not get heals in raids because at this point they are a liability, not an investment to the group. A warrior who is tanking, or a fury warrior who is doing a lot of damage while not dying easily, will get the heal instead. Healers have to be careful with their mana and who gets the heals, and in a raid, rogues are at the bottom of the list.

Wearing leather, having low HP, and being at the bottom of the list for heals is no fun.

Sap is a nice crowd control feature that rogues have, but in current patches, it doesn't work as well as it used to.

Plus, as said above, there are incredibly high populations of rogues. Everyone wants to "go invisible and gank lowbies or twink in battle grounds." Most guilds and people have rogues that they can ask to come along, and don't need to do much searching to find one.

This is why I stopped playing my rogue, and started a mage. The mage is much more useful as far as group work goes, I believe. The rogue is only fun for PvP to me.

(I've got a 60 rogue, 29 hunter, 28 shaman, and 12 mage)

[Gasu E.]

Back six years ago, I chose a least populated server I could find for Everquest. Unlike now, I could devote considerably more time into MMORPGs back then and it wasn't long before I became the first player to max out on fletching (the art of making bows and arrows). Because of this, I've made a name for myself on that server and I made ton of money (game money and not real $$$), something I would not have been able to achieve had I logged into a high population server. In highly populated servers, competitions were fierce. So fierce, in fact, that for casual players such as myself, there would be virtually no chance of profiteering from trades against hard-core players who spends 12 hrs or more per day.

HiRez, you've given many good advice and while I respect your inputs, I must disagree with you in several areas:

1. Sometimes, fewer competition is a good thing. This gives other players a shot at the fame and fortune.

2. While most would tend to agree that it'd be easier to find players to group with on a highly populated server, my experience has been to the contrary. I found that the majority of the players in highly populated servers were hard-core and tightly knit guild members who did not deal much with outsiders. And because there were so many players at any given time, players could afford to be very choosy about whom they admit to the group. And if you happened to be one of those who did not play one of the holy trinity classes (i.e. warrior/tanker, priest/healer, and mage/nuker), it was very difficult to find a group at all. I found that on relatively unpopulated servers, players aren't very choosy about whom they group with as they tend to be thankful for finding someone to group at all.

3. Kill-stealings were rampant in highly populated servers. Too many times I've had high level players (mostly guilds) walk in on me and simply take over my hunting area without so much as asking, "May I?". And I frequently found myself (and the rest of my group) pushed aside by groups of rude and inconsiderate high level players (again, guild members) who simply decided to take over an occupied area deep down in some boss's lair, ruining any chance at the boss-level loots me and my group worked so hard for. Since I don't have the power to suspend or punish these undesirable players, the best I can do is to avoid them. And for that, least populated servers is the answer.

I wouldn't mind joining a guild consisting of mature and responsible players. HiRez, you sound like one. However, it appears that you only play on highly populated servers...

The only part of your analysis that applies in WOW has to do with the economics. Yes, your economic skills may be more rare in a low-populated server.

Otherwise,

- there is no kill-stealing in WOW.

- You will have an easier time finding groups to run instances on a HIGH-density server

- Battlegrounds need high density or the waiting can be horrendous

[ScarletRed]

I just looked at the Tier 3 Raid armor sets for various classes and I am amazed. What would I have to do to get my hands on one of these? How long would it take for a casual rogue player to obtain a complete set of Tier 3 Raid armors? Would 6 months be a reasonable estimate?

I ... must ... have ... them.

Btw, what is the difference between an instance and a raid? Since I am not sure, I will make an educated guess here... I think instance is when a group of adventurers invade a dungeon that is inhabited by mobs whereas raid is an invasion of city/town controlled by an opposing faction. Am I correct?

Would someone please rank the various classes in the order of their usefulness to the raiding group from most important to the least important? (Why do I get the feeling that rogue is going to be at the bottom of the list?)

Would the list above be different for a high level instances? If yes, would someone please list them (again, from most important to the least important)

[Josh]

I just looked at the Tier 3 Raid armor sets for various classes and I am amazed. What would I have to do to get my hands on one of these? How long would it take for a casual rogue player to obtain a complete set of Tier 3 Raid armors? Would 6 months be a reasonable estimate?

I ... must ... have ... them.

Btw, what is the difference between an instance and a raid? Since I am not sure, I will make an educated guess here... I think instance is when a group of adventures invade a dungeon that is inhabited by mobs whereas raid is a invasion of city/town controlled by an opposing faction. Am I correct?

Would someone please rank the various classes in the order of their usefulness to the raiding group from most important to the least important? (Why do I get the feeling that rogue is going to be at the bottom of the list?)

Would the list above be different for a high level instances? If yes, would someone please list them (again, from most important to the least important)

As a "casual" player, you would never, ever, see the tier 3 set. Not even tier 2, and tier 1 would be very difficult and take much longer than that.

The tier 1-3 sets are for hardcore players in hardcore guilds. These set items drop very rarely, and it takes a long time for all the players of one class to get geared up in just one set even with raiding as much as possible.

A typical raid for the tier sets, with a good, experienced guild, will take you about 4 hours, and you can only do the major instances (Molten Core, Onyxia's Lair, Nax) once per week. You will have to raid one of these instances over, and over, and over, and over, and over to get an item. To get your whole set....well, let's just say you will be VERY familiar with that instance, and could probably do it in your sleep by the time you got all the items.

As a hardcore player who plays 6+ hours a day, it will take you longer than 6 months to get full tier 1.

And you can't get tier 3 without 2, nor 2 without 1. Technically, you could - but it isn't realistic. Any guilds who are getting tier 3 stuff are VERY experienced and VERY hardcore, and won't let just anyone do that kind of raid. You will have to be very geared up for this type of instance, and anything less than tier 2 would be hard to do.

Casual players usually go for the tier 0 and 0.5 sets as that is much more reasonable. Running Blockrock Spire/Strat/Dire Maul/etc to get those blues is much easier, and most take only 5 people, except BRS is 10 man.

But, unfortunately, any of the tier 1-3 sets, which require experienced 40-man raids, will take you a very, very long time.

You'd have be playing A LOT more than what I'd consider 'casual' to aquire tier 1 in 6 months - and that is if your lucky. Remember: all the other players in your class in your guild are trying the same thing, and any fair guild is going to distribute items evenly. For example, you won't have one rogue in full night slayer before the others in the raiding group have any.

The difference between instance and raid is this: an instance is basically just what WoW players call a "dungeon." The reason it is called an instance is because when your group enters it, no other plays can enter that instance of the dungeon. That way, you will not have to compete with another group to kill the boss and get the treasure.

A raid is a group of players of 6 to 40. Groups of 2-5 are called parties. In a parties, you get less xp per monster killed than when you solo, and in raids you get less than when in a party. But sometimes you need the extra help to complete the task.

All instances will require at least a party (though some can be solo'ed by some classes). The beginning ones are usualy 5 man parties, while the end-game instances will require 5 man parties, and 10,20, or 40 man raids.

The list of useful classes in instances will vary from person to person. Healers and tanks will ALWAYS be very high on the list (priests,druids,shamans,paladins,warriors) while either damage dealers (rogues) or crowd control (mages, warlocks) could come in second or third depending on the instance.

Rogues just dont offer much more than high damage. Sure they can sap for crowd control, but it isn't as effective as it used to be, and well-played fury warriors can do equal or more damage and take more hits at the same time. If it came down to a rogue vs a warrior for the last pick, more often than not, the warrior would get picked. Rogues are nice for 1-on-1 damage, or when only one monster needs to be killed. But verse multiple opponents, the rogue is not very useful.

If there were more locked doors, or if rogues would unparralled in damage, that would make rogues more useful. But with the current "balance," rogues are often a last pick. And since there are so many of them, and 1 rogue per 5 players in a group is enough, you'll often find it more difficult as a rogue to get a spot in a group that is already forming.

[ddrueckhammer]

From WoWWiki...


Instance-

World Dungeons typically have sub-areas called "Instance Dungeons", or just "Instances". These Instances are special areas in the World of Warcraft where your group or raid party is able to interact with a dungeon privately; that is, without interference from other parties. Instance dungeons tend to feature the most difficult and rewarding content, both in terms of enemies and items, but also in terms of level design. Getting through an instance requires a well-trained and well-balanced group of players that are of an appropriate level for the challenge.

Raids are 10 man or 40 man groups who attempt to complete an instance....There are also five man instances that generally aren't considered raids because it is only one group...

The order of usefulness to a group is a matter of opinion but here is my list...

Healers-

1. Priest
2. Druid
3. Shaman

Tank-
4. Warrior
5. Paladin

DPS/Crowd Control
6. Mage
7. Rogue
8. Lock
9. Hunter

Also, just because you can't get your tier 1-3 sets that easily, don't think there is a lack of content or things to do for casual gamers....

[bobber205]

When I start my trial, I want to be a night elf as they're my favorite race.
But do they have a good healer?

What's it like playing WoW being a healer, except for being wanted so badly?

[ScarletRed]

As a "casual" player, you would never, ever, see the tier 3 set. Not even tier 2, and tier 1 would be very difficult and take much longer than that......The tier 1-3 sets are for hardcore players in hardcore guilds. These set items drop very rarely, .....A typical raid for the tier sets, with a good, experienced guild, will take you about 4 hours, and you can only do the major instances once per week. You will have to raid one of these instances over, and over, and over, and over, and over to get an item.....As a hardcore player who plays 6+ hours a day, it will take you longer than 6 months to get full tier 1.....And you can't get tier 3 without 2, nor 2 without 1. Technically, you could - but it isn't realistic. Any guilds who are getting tier 3 stuff are VERY experienced and VERY hardcore, and won't let just anyone do that kind of raid. You will have to be very geared up for this type of instance, and anything less than tier 2 would be hard to do.....
*Sigh* Thank you for the honest answer. I should have known better than to ask.

Since becoming a hardcore isn't likely, I'd better learn to solo very well. What are the top three most solo'able classes?

[AoWolf]

*Sigh* Thank you for the honest answer. I should have known better than to ask.

Since becoming a hardcore isn't likely, I'd better learn to solo very well. What are the top three most solo'able classes?
I am one of those t3 guilds (4 bosses into naxx iirc) and yeah you need to be really good. Most people play at least 8 hours a day 5 days a week. Our pvp team puts in at least 10 hours a day every week.(not including the time there chars are botted). That said MC/ZG is really really easy I mean you could suck very badly and still clear most of MC. There are also lots of smaller crappier (from my point of view) guilds that run it.

[ScarletRed]

I am one of those t3 guilds (4 bosses into naxx iirc) and yeah you need to be really good. Most people play at least 8 hours a day 5 days a week. Our pvp team puts in at least 10 hours a day every week.(not including the time there chars are botted). That said MC/ZG is really really easy I mean you could suck very badly and still clear most of MC. There are also lots of smaller crappier (from my point of view) guilds that run it.
How can anyone afford to devote so much time in this game? What about their job? How do they make a living?

And what do you mean by "botting"? Is that what I think it is? Using some sort of macros to play WoW automatically while AFK?

[AoWolf]

How can anyone afford to devote so much time in this game? What about their job? How do they make a living?

And what do you mean by "botting"? Is that what I think it is? Using some sort of macros to play WoW automatically while AFK?

I am 17 so I don't have to work to support myself. I also cannot get a job do to medical reasons. That said most people I play with are collage students other then that either rich kids here and there or the wellfair type. In my guild at least...

Botting means having one of us playing one of them so that they get CP while sleeping/eating.

[HiRez]

What are the top three most solo'able classes?Meh, any class is soloable fairly easily in the grand scheme of things. In my experience, Feral druid is probably the best all-around soloing class (with Herbalism/Alchemy as skills). Feral druids can dish out good damage, can tank and stun, root enemies, are quite good healers, get a great general buff, get a fast pre-40 travel form, and can stealth (this skill is immensely useful for soloing). Also decent are Shadow-specced priests, rogues, hunters, warlocks, and Fury-specced warriors. Worst has got to be Holy-specced priests or paladins (again, these are soloable, but will be slow to level because of their emphasis on healing instead of damage, and healing is more useful to groups). Restoration-specced druids would also be not ideal, but better than priest or pally because they can still shift forms at will to specialize roles.

[Josh]

*Sigh* Thank you for the honest answer. I should have known better than to ask.

Since becoming a hardcore isn't likely, I'd better learn to solo very well. What are the top three most solo'able classes?

I think Rogues, Hunters, and Mages are great for soloing.

Rogues and Hunters definitely are a fun class to solo (this is what I do, too. I don't have time to play 24/7 either).

[kaboutertje]

When I used to play WoW I had a hunter but how can you say it's a fun soloing class. Just let your pet attack press serpent sting and wait 30 seconds. Rinse and repeat.
It was a fun (and overpowered) class in pvp though :).

Ah WoW all the bad memories are coming back :), I want three months of my life back! :P

[ScarletRed]

I think Rogues, Hunters, and Mages are great for soloing.

Rogues and Hunters definitely are a fun class to solo (this is what I do, too. I don't have time to play 24/7 either).
Maybe I should look you up one of these days when I look for someone to group with. :)

So Mage and Rogue it is. Are there any broken skills for these two classes? In MMORPGs, rogues often had the short end of the stick when it came to full functionality of their skills list. In Everquest, for instance, rogues couldn't pick lock because there were no locked chests nor doors/gates for them to pick. Are there any broken skills I should watch out for before choosing a class for my main character? How about class-specific quests? Are any broken?

How does one tell an eastern server from a western one? I didn't see geographical location of servers on WoW website so I wonder how people know this...

[ddrueckhammer]

If you want a good solo class that has the option of endgame raiding when you get there choose a Mage, Feral Druid, or Shadow Priest...Rogues or Hunters probably are fun to solo or PvP but it will be hard if you decide you want to raid later on. You can spec any class for solo but not every class is as useful in raids...I would suggest a warrior but I find soloing with them boring...

Rogues don't get the short end of the stick in WoW. They are very useful for PvP....A druid and a rogue are a great wrecking crew for capture the flag...The problem with them is not the doors thing. It is that there are too many of them and they aren't that useful even if there were more locked doors. Several other classes can do DPS as a ranged attack which makes them less vulnerable. Rogues who don't manage agro or are detected while stealthed can get a group killed easily. They have a decent crowd control ability but Mages have much better options... Also, many rogues run around Azeroth just trying to gank people and get honor points. People don't like rogues because they slow down leveling and don't offer much for groups. Finally, there are better solo classes because rogues do great DPS but can't heal themselves and take too much damage. For those who play rogues in a mature manner they are great but there are too many irresponisble rogues who get their groups killed and go around doing nothing but ganking people. Thus, they don't have a good reputation in general...

[ScarletRed]

ddrueckhammer,

Great advice. However, I don't think ganking rogues would be a problem in my case since I plan to play on a PvE server. That means Normal or RP. While my personal preference is towards RP, most of them are highly populated. So it looks I'll be playing on a normal server where I don't have to worry about being ganked unless I enter a specially designated PvP zone.

You and others have mentioned that mages are better at both solo'ing and in high level instances & raids than rogues. I am puzzled as to how this can be since they have even less armor than rogues, and mages have no ability to heal themselves (except by drinking potions and applying First Aid). And once they're out of mana, mages are dead meat.

Another thing I don't understand: When a mage solo's a dungeon and finds several locked chests, how do they open them? If they are randomly generated chests, then the chances are that there are no mobs that will carry key(s) specific for that chest. And from what I've seen so far, each character has a very limited inventory space which I presume will be occupied with various potions, first aid bandages, and food items, leaving very little room, if any, for additional loots found during adventures.


Back to rogues, I read somewhere that Detect Traps and Disarm Traps are mostly useless. Does this mean there are hardly any traps in dungeons? When a party encounters traps in a dungeon, what are their options if they have no rogue in the group?

[AoWolf]

ddrueckhammer,

Great advice. However, I don't think ganking rogues would be a problem in my case since I plan to play on a PvE server. That means Normal or RP. While my personal preference is towards RP, most of them are highly populated. So it looks I'll be playing on a normal server where I don't have to worry about being ganked unless I enter a specially designated PvP zone.

You and others have mentioned that mages are better at both solo'ing and in high level instances & raids than rogues. I am puzzled as to how this can be since they have even less armor than rogues, and mages have no ability to heal themselves (except by drinking potions and applying First Aid). And once they're out of mana, mages are dead meat.

Another thing I don't understand: When a mage solo's a dungeon and finds several locked chests, how do they open them? If they are randomly generated chests, then the chances are that there are no mobs that will carry key(s) specific for that chest. And from what I've seen so far, each character has a very limited inventory space which I presume will be occupied with various potions, first aid bandages, and food items, leaving very little room, if any, for additional loots found during adventures.


Back to rogues, I read somewhere that Detect Traps and Disarm Traps are mostly useless. Does this mean there are hardly any traps in dungeons? When a party encounters traps in a dungeon, what are their options if they have no rogue in the group?


Honestly dude you are thinking this over way to much. Just pick based off your personality. If you want to rip into flesh with a huge sword play a warrior. If you want to melt people into smelling piles off goo play a mage. If you want to incinerate the infidels with holy fire play a priest.

[ddrueckhammer]

The soloable instances end at about level 30 and you must be 20 levels higher to solo those dungeons. Chests don't drop that great of loot in most cases so I wouldn't worry about them. Also, you can get skeleten keys later on in the game. Mages are better than rogues because they have great crowd control spells so they never get hit. It is true that when you are oom you are in trouble but that is what food and pots are for.

The advice that was given to choose a class that suits your personality is good. Just pick a class and go with it. It isn't that important...If you don't like the class you choose after about lvl 20 go start another character.

I know that you are basing alot of your questions on your experience from Eq. I was the same way when I started. Eq is a totally different game and the classes and gameworld play much differently.

Choose a PvE server if you feel like that will suit you best but I can't say enough that WoW is a much better PvP game than PvE. You can't group with the opposite faction irregardless and people will be asking you to duel constantly in PvE. There are designated areas for PvP and you will not even do much PvP until about lvl thirty on a PvP server. Maybe you should start characters in both PvE and PvP servers just to get an idea how it is. Eq and WoW are different and PvP play is completely different in WoW. I started a character on a PvE server at first and one of my friends talked me into changing over to PvP. The game is far more interesting when you are in your 30s and trying to do SM and both alliance and horde are both trying to get to the same instances...

Good luck with your choice and have fun with WoW!

[rumbletum]

Honestly dude you are thinking this over way to much. Just pick based off your personality. If you want to rip into flesh with a huge sword play a warrior. If you want to melt people into smelling piles off goo play a mage. If you want to incinerate the infidels with holy fire play a priest.


What he said. It's a game, play it and enjoy it, you're stressing about it way too much, and you haven't even started it yet :)

[mishi]

Ok, i got wow the day it came out. I initially chose a hunter, this seemed like a really good idea while i was leveling because of the ease and speed of leveling. my brother who plays a warrior was on the verge of quitting because i always stompped him in duels and was able to level much quicker.

however once we both reached level 60 things turned for the worse...he was able to get into a hardcore guild very quickly beacuse of the lack of warriors...i was left searching for 3 months for a good guild. do not get me wrong hunters are a good class, but there are far too many of them.

after 6 months of my hunter and getting absolutley nowhere i decieded to reroll. the class was a difficult choise, i was so sick of being the most common class/race (NE hunter) so i went undead priest. After i reached 60 i was able to get into one of the best guilds on the server and get some good healing gear.

however i found raiding MC and BWL hopelessly boring and was going to quit wow since i initially wanted to play wow for pvp...my hunter could not get good gear and i assumed a priest would be stomped in pvp. i was wrong.

as a priest it is pointlessly difficult to get good pvp gear from instances. for example a warlocks MC set is equal...if not better for pvp than the actual pvp set. the priest tier 1 set (and tier 2 and tier 3) is useless for pvp. this forces priests to get a custom pvp set...MORESO even if a peice of non class specific gear drops that is good for pvp...a mage or warlock will get it over a priest.

however as i found if you are somehow able to get together a decent pvp set as a priest and you spec shadow you will be very hard to kill. as my priest there are only about 5 people on the allience that i will not attack 1v1 without being pretty sure that i will win.

however alot of people assume that for example a priest will be a better healer than a druid hands down. not true. if you put a T2 priest vs a T2 druid the druid will be able to heal much faster. in addition druids have natures swiftness and innervate which counters the priests much higher spirit.

in answer to your question to what the top 3 solo classes are:
1) HUNTER
reasons:
-you have a pet to take the damage and that is very quick to heal
-high damage
-fun class to grind with
-you have feign death so there is no durability loss from double or triple pulls
-you should are able to kill elites of your level (or a few levels lower) fairly easy.

2)Mage
reasons:
-very high damage
-most fun class to grind with
-you are able to summon food and water
-ability to AOE (area of effect) grind lower lvl mobs
-mages are usually quite high on group lists

3) rogue
reasons:
-high damage
-good for pvp
-vanish to reduce deaths and therefore money loss
-good for stealth instance runs and getting chests

if you have any class specific questions i will be able to help you just PM me

BTW: 100th post :D

[ScarletRed]

however i found raiding MC and BWL hopelessly boring and was going to quit wow since i initially wanted to play wow for pvp...my hunter could not get good gear and i assumed a priest would be stomped in pvp. i was wrong.
I found out today that Paladins and Shamans clearly have the best advantages in PvP. Even for the most experienced rogue players, their chance of winning against these two classes are slim to none.

Paladins: nearly all the benefits of a warrior and ability to heal instantly. Not uncommon to find Level 60 Paladins running around with excess of 7000 armor (roughly 50% dmg reduction) which renders rogues' Ambush and Backstabs mostly ineffective.

Shamans: Damage shields, instant cast spells (which means rogues cannot interrupt their spellcasting), ability to heal, lots of totems and above average melee capability. Rogues are no match against them in PvP.

In PvP: Shaman > Paladin > Rogue > Mage

Sorry I wasn't there to tell you these when you began WoW. :D

.....as a priest it is pointlessly difficult to get good pvp gear from instances. for example a warlocks MC set is equal...if not better for pvp than the actual pvp set. the priest tier 1 set (and tier 2 and tier 3) is useless for pvp. this forces priests to get a custom pvp set...
Since I have not played the game yet, I will make an educated guess as to what you mean by "MC"....Mithril Casing? But Warlocks can only wear clothing armor (I think) so that can't be...which means MC = Molten Core? I believe that is a 40-man high level instance. This would make sense since you mentioned tier 1, 2, and 3 sets which are obtainable only in high level dungeons from certain bosses.

if you have any class specific questions i will be able to help you just PM me
Becareful what you say, because I just might take up on that offer with barrage of questions.:D

[ddrueckhammer]

I found out today that Paladins and Shamans clearly have the best advantages in PvP.\

PvP for BGs requires the talents of many different classes. As a feral Druid I was one of the most sought after classes as a flag runner and the ability to debuff rogues (Look up how many HP druids have in Dire Bear form)....You can't judge how good a class is at PvP by their HP and the ability to heal. For instance, Pallys may be able to outlast a lock's attacks but maybe not...I've gotten Pwed by locks and priests and mages as a Druid in dire bear plenty...(Actually I found rogues easier because I could debuff their stealth...) Locks and Priests can fear and outlasting a barrage of fear is difficult....the same goes for sheep or freeze or whatever. Druids have the advantage of shifting which clears movement impairing effects and gives them the skills of any class which makes them incredibly hard to beat as you have to shift tactics on them. Warriors, Druids, and Pallies can charge but ususally it is hard to do enough damage before you are feared or sheeped against a caster...

You just can't assume anything until you play the game. If you play a Pally or Warrior I guarantee you will get owned by a Lock, Mage, or Priest many times before you figure out how to beat them. And it is even more difficult to beat a rogue unless you can debuff his stealth like a Druid. Druids are hard to beat but hard to play so you will get beat alot if you choose one of them because you have to master your craft....Also, this only applies to one-on-one duels. In BGs and world PvP you will face many classes at once and have specific goals so using your strengths in a group becomes most important to acheive a goal. If you are alone and someone attacks you in World PvP then the best bet is to run until you know who is attacking you (this gives druids an advantage as they can't be dismounted in travelform and can stealth if need be). Also, you will see them spam moonfire continuously. Instantcast spells are very useful in PvP as you can't get inturrupted....A good feral druid will have you dead before you know it because they have so many strengths...they can counter any strength by shifting...

Hunters are difficult to PvP but if you can sleep or otherwise get rid of their pet they are easier. Locks are much harder IMHO because they fear, dot, dd, and have their pet hit you all at once...

If you are going by the stats you listed Druids have the advantage because they can run away easier to heal...It doesn't matter if you can heal if you can't get it off...

[mishi]

actually to tell you the truth...i have very little trouble with paladins(fear and mana drain). shamans are by far the hardest class for me to beat as a priest mainly because of earthshock.

this is only my opinion but i think the three classes with the most advantage in pvp (if specced/geared correctly) are:
1)shaman
2)warrior
3)priest

and yes MC=Molten Core.

Tier 1 comes from Molten Core
Tier 2 comes from Blackwing Lair
Tier 3 comes from Naxxramas(not sure on spelling)

tier 1 is actually not that hard to get. but tier 2 and 3 you will be VERY UNLIKLEY to get unless you are in a hardcore guild.

seriously dude, ask any questions you have i am on holidays at the moment :p

P.S
here are my toons:
http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=loth6nr.jpg

http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=background9jf.jpg

[ddrueckhammer]

I forgot to address Shamans...They rock the house but you won't see many of them around....Druids and Priests are more sought after for healing so most people who want to be a healer roll a druid or priest....

Most classes are balanced in WoW such that they have an opposite class that can own them in PvP (the exception being Druids..everyone can own them unless they are very well specced and very well played eg they know how to shift appropriately for changing situations) so it really doesn't matter which class you choose for this aspect. I will say that the Shaman's Earthshock is a big advantage though...

I have beat plenty of warriors when I was a feral druid because I have only a few thousand less health than them in Dire Bear and a whole bag of tricks up my sleeve. Paladins can't really stop you from shifting even with mana drain so they are dead pretty easy too..Shadow priests (because they do rediculous damage and don't let you hit them) and mages (same reason as preists) are pretty hard for me to beat though and destruction locks can be hard too...

[Josh]

Maybe I should look you up one of these days when I look for someone to group with. :)

So Mage and Rogue it is. Are there any broken skills for these two classes? In MMORPGs, rogues often had the short end of the stick when it came to full functionality of their skills list. In Everquest, for instance, rogues couldn't pick lock because there were no locked chests nor doors/gates for them to pick. Are there any broken skills I should watch out for before choosing a class for my main character? How about class-specific quests? Are any broken?

How does one tell an eastern server from a western one? I didn't see geographical location of servers on WoW website so I wonder how people know this...

Rogues currently are what would be called a "broken class." Their the last to get a review, so everyone else is much more "complete" than rogues currently are. This is not to say they don't work or anything that - rogues are great. But there are some trouble areas - most of which are PvP related. The only big issues with PvE and raiding is the lack of group utility. Their review notes/previews look REALLY good though, and I can't wait to play my rogue then. Right now, it is a bore to play (1-59 was FUUUN!!! 60....*snore*). No class-specific quests are broken for the rogue (the only one you really have is one to learn poisons, and it is working fine). Don't let this scare you away from rogues. Considering that they are somewhat broken, yet still work very well - that only means that the rogue is a GREAT class, and when working completely, as they should after the review, they should be very, very good to play. The downside is this made them very popular, and getting group spots can be troublesome at times. Rogues are awesome for PvP, and if that's what you want, a rogue will be a good class to choose. 1-59 few classes can conistently beat a rogue (hunters/mages can give you trouble from kiting you (running you around like a kite, keeping you at a distance so they can hit you while you cannot reach them)).

I'm only lvl 12 with my mage, so I don't have in-depth knowledge of the class as much as I do with rogues, so I can't really say. So far though, it is a blast. I play my mage just to have fun. I've already done the 1-60 thing, so now I am just taking my time and having fun. To be honest, this mage will probably never see lvl 60, and I'll be doing LOT more PvP :)

As far as the west/east server thing goes, it should say on the server list panel when you select one in-game. I live in Michigan, and I have one character on an east server (Shattered Hand) and 3 on a west coast server (Spirestone). I prefer the west-coast servers for one reason: the time-adjustment. Because I can only play after work (6pm-1am EST), I was always playing when the WoW world was dark. I never saw daylight in WoW.

Now, I get to play the majority of my time in daylight, since 6-1 for me is 3-10 on the server.

Don't base your server selection on proximity thinking it will reduce lag or something. Theoretically it should, but in actuallity, with each server running at an individual different level of performance (some have problems, some don't), any difference is cancelled right out.

Base it on when you can play, if you are playing with others in your area you know, and if the whole dark time/light time matters to you.

If you're starting out, I'd be happy to team up with ya :) I can get you in a very large guild too, with vent (voice chat), website, and a 60-only raiding guild as well (both opperated by the same leader - a REALLY awesome guy).

[Gasu E.]

Honestly dude you are thinking this over way to much. Just pick based off your personality. If you want to rip into flesh with a huge sword play a warrior. If you want to melt people into smelling piles off goo play a mage. If you want to incinerate the infidels with holy fire play a priest.

I agree. ScarletRed, do you realize you can create as many characters as you want? Pick one and play for a week. If you're not thrilled create a different class. You can have up to 10 chars on a server and you can play on as many servers as you want.

[shortyjj]

I have 3 60s that are in MC+ gear (druid, mage, and shadow priest) and I've had a LOT of fun with each of them. Mage has so much versatility due to all the spells, but can still only perform one "role." The other two can go dps or healing whenever they want, and perform admirably.

That said, I still think the mage is more "fun" overall, and the priest excels in PvP.

[ScarletRed]

Thank you for the offer, Josh. One of the reasons why I quit Everquest was because I had difficulty finding a decent guild to join (among several other reasons). As long as the attendance is not mandatory (I heard that hard-core guilds require you to be online at certain time for long sessions everyday), and you do not play on a PvP server, I'd be interested in joining your guild. Please message me privately the name of the server, name of your character, and your contact info.

As for Rogue class being "broken", does it have something to do with patch 1.11.x (Shadow of Necropolis)? I read lot of complaints at WoW's official rogue forum regarding recent changes.

[ScarletRed]

I am a bit unclear on the usefulness of Improved Sap (Rogue's Subtlety talent) in high level instances. According to the various online guides about rogues (including the Osiris and Cerias guides), Improved Sap is essential for crowd control in high level dungeons. I've been also told by some that Sap and Improved Sap are useless because most, if not all, mobs in high level instances cannot be sapped.

Would someone care to clear up this issue, please?

[mishi]

in 5-15 man instances most mobs can be sapped...however in 40 man instances mobs will simply be immune to all forms of crowd controll and slowing effects. and this is indeed why rogues are rather useless in 40 man instances simply because a fury specced warrior...while having much more health and armor will most likley be able to outdamage a rogue...

but yes in a 5-15 man instance rogues with improved sap are invaluable

[Josh]

I am a bit unclear on the usefulness of Improved Sap (Rogue's Subtlety talent) in high level instances. According to the various online guides about rogues (including the Osiris and Cerias guides), Improved Sap is essential for crowd control in high level dungeons. I've been also told by some that Sap and Improved Sap are useless because most, if not all, mobs in high level instances cannot be sapped.

Would someone care to clear up this issue, please?

(trying to answer your post before this one as well)

Some things problems with rogues are fairly recent, such as vanish not working properly since 1.10 I believe. For example, if you are in combat with a hunter/warlock with a pet, and you vanish, the player will not see you, but the pet still will. It will attack you, take your right out of vanish, and the hunter/warlock can begin attacking you. It happens so fast, it is like you never vanished - and you wasted a reagent. Vanish is supposed to be "improved stealth." Pet's won't see you if you stealth up to them first, so they definitely should lose track of you in an improved stealth.

The sap/improved sap thing will vary from rogue to rogue. Personally, I find improved sap worthless.As said above, sap is useless in large raids as the monsters are immune (most being immune to poisons as well - another loss of utility for the rogue).

Since improved sap just increases your chance to remain stealthed when you sap, which would mean nothing would gain aggro until the mage sheeps or the hunter pulls, which gives the tank more of an oppertunity to gather the aggro and begin tanking.

However, without improved sap, you can vanish instantly after sapping, which removes all agro from you, and would give the tank that same oppertunity. I have *never* been in a group that failed because I did not have improved sap. With another crowd control (mage/warlock) and a tank that knows what they're doing, you will not need improved sap.

Another reason I feel it is useless is that the talent points are MUCH better spent elsewhere in the talent trees. Improved sap can help you in group instances, but spending those points more wisely can help you EVERYWHERE - not just in instances.

I use a Seal Fate build (31/8/12) which is amazing in PvP, and also in instances if you are not in tier 1-3 gear. Since seal fate does not rely heavily on your gear, it is a good build for casuals who raid occasionally and do a lot of pvp. Once you start getting sweet gear (purples) then a combat build will be much more helpful, since it is more reliant on your gear and you will do more damage than a seal fate rogue - but only when you have really nice gear. With level 60 blue items, a seal fate rogue will out damage a combat rogue.

I will also say the "cookie cutter" pvp build is much better than combat for leveling, which goes against the most common suggestion. The reason is that combat will allow you to kill things fast, they also do nothing to stop you from being attacked as they do not focus on stunning at all - this means you will have more down time waiting for health to build (eating, etc) between fights. With the cookie cutter build, you will keep your enemy stunned for 95% of the fight, meaning you are the only one doing damage and are taking very little yourself. This allows you to jump from monster to monster without the downtime.

1-20 quests are the best way to get XP and level up, but after that, grinding (killing monster after monster) is the fastest way to level. I went from 36 to 60 in a week and a half by doing nothing than killing monsters over and over.

A typical quest at level 36 for example gives you about 3000xp and will take you 30-45 minutes. That is about 6000xp per hour. By grinding, you can easily exceed 20,000 XP per hour :)

(there is more info on rogue talent builds in the rogue faq on Blizzard's rogue forums)

I also play on a PvP server, so if you don't like the idea of PvP, you may not want to join it. I will say this though: PvP can be easily avoided, and you will not encounter it until level 30 or so. It is actually more fun than anything - and like I said, can be avoided. Especially as a rogue - you could avoid 100% PvP encounters easily, since rogues can choose their battles (you can stealth and hide if you need).

PvP offers a lot more fun and experience to the game. If you go to a PvE server, you lose that. Sure, you can PvP, but not fully. If you go PvP, you can avoid it if you want, which gives you access to the entire experience. In a PvE server you get about 70% the experience, which you can never change . On a PvP server, you have the option to do whatever you want, even if you never want to do PvP at all. I feel that you'd be hindering yourself by choosing PvE.

Additionally, if you choose, there is nothing like a full-on raid of an opposing city. It's a blast! Again though, you can avoid this entirely if you want - it is very easy, definitely as a rogue.

My guilds (I am in both the 1-60 casual guild and its "counterpart" 60-only raiding guild) do not require mandatory on time. Well, the 60-only raiding guild does require you to raid, but not the sister guild for casuals. You can be on as much or as little as you like, with access to special channels to chat between the two guilds, our allianced guilds (we are partnered with 4 other raiding and casual guilds), the voice chat, and websites.

[bobber205]

Does anybody enjoy playing a priest?

[Mord]

yes.

[ScarletRed]

Does anybody enjoy playing a priest?
I think a more appropriate question would be, "Does anybody enjoy preaching & healing others all day long and when time permits, smite a troll or two squarely on the forehead with a mace?"

[ddrueckhammer]

Does anybody enjoy playing a priest?

Yeah! Priests are definately not relegated to being healbots in WoW. (Although I enjoy being a healbot in challanging instances)...Shadowpriests are one of the most powerful classes in the game...

[bobber205]

I'm really enjoying my priest so far.

Lots of people want me to join their groups and stuff.:cool:

[mishi]

Does anybody enjoy playing a priest?


leveling a priest is so boring mainly becuase its painfully slow...however once you reach 60 there is no shortage of groups and you will kick ass in pvp...very enjoyable experience once you reach 60.

[ddrueckhammer]

leveling a priest is so boring mainly becuase its painfully slow...however once you reach 60 there is no shortage of groups and you will kick ass in pvp...very enjoyable experience once you reach 60.

Leveling a priest is pretty fast if you spec shadow and get a Warrior, Paladin or Druid to help keep mobs off of you...Also, lots of pots and food helps too..

[bobber205]

Warning: "Newbie question" ahead. You have been warned. :cool:

I am currently on a PvE server... is there anyway I could use my character on a PvP server w/o paying?

[Quantum Man]

Nope, no way to transfer a character from PvE to PvP, let alone without paying. It's $25 to transfer from same type of realm to another.

I love playing my priest. Shadow priests rock the house in PvP. And levelling him was pretty fast too.

[Veldek]

I play a Shadow priest and mainly do PvP. I only lost one 1on1 in the last weeks and this was because I was too sure to win too early. I'm the number 1 non-60 player in the PvP ranking on my server just because Shadow priests are so good :) On level 50 I could even beat level 58 chars in 1on1s.

Leveling with Shadow priests is fast, too, and mostly easy. All you have to do is to get water from a mage before you go grinding, because you need a lot of mana.

[shortyjj]

Leveling with Shadow priests is fast, too, and mostly easy. All you have to do is to get water from a mage before you go grinding, because you need a lot of mana.

SPs also have a talent called Spirit Tap, which will regen a could portion of your mana after killing a mob. Keeping mobs off of you isn't so hard by using Fear, which causes them to run around for 10+ seconds. Most mobs die before they even touch me...

Also, SPs have one of my favorite spells in the game: Vampiric Embrace. With it, not only are you rivaling the damage of mages, warlocks and rogues, but 1/5 of your damage amount is returned as healing to *each* member of your party. It kicks serious patooty.

[Veldek]

SPs also have a talent called Spirit Tap, which will regen a could portion of your mana after killing a mob. Keeping mobs off of you isn't so hard by using Fear, which causes them to run around for 10+ seconds. Most mobs die before they even touch me...Yes, but I didn't take this skill because the 10% chance for a blackout is much better for Warsong Gulch IMO.

Also, SPs have one of my favorite spells in the game: Vampiric Embrace. With it, not only are you rivaling the damage of mages, warlocks and rogues, but 1/5 of your damage amount is returned as healing to *each* member of your party. It kicks serious patooty.I agree, this spell is great and you can even skill it to give back 30% (I think) life to you and your party.

I remember party members asking me why I healed them ;)

Some time ago we were in Maraudon with two Shadow priests. The tank afterwards just said that he won't go into instances anymore with less than two SPs :)

[sketchy]

WOW forums -- the only people who post are those who are pissed off.. the mage and priest forums were all complaints till they reviewed the classes.
People like to complain, makes them feel important.

you can easially solo to 60.. though you will be doing a lot of repetative grinding.

non raiders can get good gear.. though you will be doing a lot of repetative grinding.

non raiders cannot get great gear.

lvl 60 is about raiding. wow is about community, that is why most people play.

you can ask 1000000 questions. get the game or don't. it starts off really easy and you learn the things you keep asking question about. don't buy a guide, don't buy gold. and play horde -- we need more players

[bobber205]

How do PvP and PvE servers differ in the beginning game?

[Josh]

How do PvP and PvE servers differ in the beginning game?

They really don't, since you don't really begin venturing to far off "enemy" lands until your 20's or 30's.

PvP can easily be avoided on a PvP server. You can choose when and where you will go, so if you don't want to risk PvP, don't go to the places it can happen.

In PvE, there's no such thing as world PvP, so you are losing a good part of the game that you won't be able to get back.

A PvP server is *both* PvE and PvP. PvE is only PvE.

[bobber205]

It's a good thing I read this topic.

I should start a new character. I was a Night Elf. Maybe I should be a human priest instead so it's a little different to begin with. I was only level 7 anyway. :)

[Veldek]

A PvP server is *both* PvE and PvP. PvE is only PvE.Although this might change with 1.12 when new PvP content is added outside battlegrounds.

[Gasu E.]

Although this might change with 1.12 when new PvP content is added outside battlegrounds.

... and we already have the arena in STV.

[Ayre]

I'm a bit disappointed in the upcoming PvP changes in the 1.12 patch. Apparently, the only "World PvP" being added is in Silithus or Eastern Plaguelands. In Silithus, you have to gather objects by right clicking on them, but in doing so, you get flagged for PvP. Gather enough objects and turn them in, and everyone in your faction in the zone gets a buff.

Same thing for EPL, except slightly different. There are currently abandoned towers scattered around the zone. In the patch, you'll be able to capture these towers, and if your faction holds all of them, everyone in your faction in that zone gets a buff.

A lot of people are up in arms about this, because they're basically buffs for raids, so that guild raids that want to go to Naxxramas in EPL or Ahn'Qiraj in Silithus do these World PVP buffs to do the raid dungeon of their choice. Because of the Alliance/Horde imbalance on most servers, there will be more Alliance completing these tasks, thus proving more that the Alliance is more of a PvE/Raiding faction.

Don't let that scare you off though. WoW is a very fun game. I've been working on getting my Tier 0 armor set from Strathome, Scholomance, etc. and upgrading them to Tier 0.5. After that, I can't really see myself playing WoW any longer until the expansion comes out, however, I have been playing the game since beta.

[ScarletRed]

Is there a way to fix my worn armors without having to go see a vendor? I'm trying to find a way to conserve money.

Would Blacksmithing or Leathercrafting help?

[bobber205]

Actually if an armor is broken, it's best just to throw it out. I find it much easier to buy new as you're going to need that armor probably by that stage in the game anyway.

I don't think there's anyway to repair outside of a vendor.

BTW what realm are you in?

[ScarletRed]

Actually if an armor is broken, it's best just to throw it out. I find it much easier to buy new as you're going to need that armor probably by that stage in the game anyway.

I don't think there's anyway to repair outside of a vendor.

BTW what realm are you in?
Hi, Bob (May I call you "Bob"?) Let's suppose you just earned yourself a full set of Tier 2 armors. If they get damaged, are you going to throw them away? Tier 1, 2, and 3 are extremely difficult to find and you won't be able to find them on your own. They require a small army of experienced players and several months of hard work, if you're lucky. But I am nowhere near this stage yet. I haven't even installed the game yet because I am still in the process of gathering quests, skills, and talent build info while I wait for the Atlas and the Dungeon Companion to arrive.

Bob, you should try to save as much money as possible so you have enough money to buy your very first mount when you reach level 40.

As for which server I'll be in, Ysera looks good. Very few players and it's a regular PvE type. If you play as a rogue on PvP servers, prepare to get ganked by hunters mercilessly. Rogue class isn't very balanced right now and lot of rogue players are upset at Blizzard and Drysc about the upcoming new talent build.

[anshod]

A tip from an experienced wow player, play the game. To be honest, the various guides out there are just fluff and not really necessary. Playing your class of choice is the only real way of getting an understanding of the game contents and the roles of the classes in party play, both early and late game. Have fun, and trust me, ganking is not as big an issue as your posts during this thread suggests. Good luck.

[ddrueckhammer]

Yeah, you will never know if it is really that bad unless you play the game on a PvP server. Much of the complaints you read on Blizzard's forums are from people just complaining for the sake of complaining. Ganking isn't that big of a problem, if you know how to play your class you won't get ganked too much.

[ScarletRed]

Yeah, you will never know if it is really that bad unless you play the game on a PvP server. Much of the complaints you read on Blizzard's forums are from people just complaining for the sake of complaining. Ganking isn't that big of a problem, if you know how to play your class you won't get ganked too much.
For those of you who think there aren't any issues with the current Rogue class, for those of you who believes that those who post in WoW Rogue forum are bunch of whiners who can't play their class properly, here are some of the posts that I've come across:

From Letter to the devs; please support/pass on (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=1297715&p=1&tmp=1#post1297715)
1. Do you realize that Fury Warriors out-dps us? I'm not talking about Molten Core, 20-man instances, or 5-15 instances. I'm talking when everyone is in the best gear in the highest instances, when it really matters.. do you realize that a player with 3-4x our armor and 2k or more health, 50% more attack power, and more utility, scaling abilities... does our job better than us? Tanks can DPS better than the DPS class? Do you recognize that this is true, all feint-related theorycraft aside? This is OK with you?

2. Do you realize that vanish, and stealth in general, is completely broken? I'm not just tossing that word out.. I mean BROKEN. Rank 1 AoE breaks it, any and all pets will break it after vanishes, auto-attacks break it. Do you realize that a cooldown that you believe is so powerful that it requires a 5-minute cooldown is completely broken?

3. Do you listen to naysayers and "haters" from other classes? The Roguecraft videos, for example? All of our nerfs almost exactly coincide with the sort of complaints we get from other classes. Do you realize that while we may occasionally get the jump on these players, that nearly every other class can dish our more than double our burst damage? 1.5k-3k dmg from ranged, usually with snares, stuns, burn, or bleed effects on top of that. Why do you feel that allowing ambush to do over 2k damage is completely overpowered, but a 2k+ fireball can hit us from 41 yards away and then burn us for another 800 or more? And stun us 10% of the time on top of that? PLEASE explain this.

4. Do you realize that "picking your fights" as the response to 5 minute cooldowns and lack of survivability/escape options is counterproductive to BG success? That stealthing around looking for favorable matchups hurts your teammates? If a flag carrier is about to run by while you are in stealth... but you have no cooldowns ready... what do you do? Stand there and say "oh, well.. I'm picking my fights" and let them score or try to help, only to fail miserably because cooldowns aren't up? Same goes for nodes/GY's and such in AB/AV, etc. If you pick your fights in BG's, you hurt your team. Is that acceptable to you, to have rogues be the anti-team class?

5. Do you realize that we have a 100% chance to lose to any skilled player of specific classes without cooldowns? Shadow priests and hunters come to mind. There is no such thing as a paper to our scissors.. we are the scissors to everyone else's rock. Do you honestly think this is OK, to lose every single time?

6. Do you realize that we are effectively off-tanks in terms of damage taken with much lower health, armor, and overall damage reduction that require healing second only to the primary tanks? You honestly think that "barely" more damage than other classes justifies THAT much healing power and mana? PLEASE explain why we are glass cannons and everyone else is just.. a cannon.

7. Do you realize that a priest with two self buffs, Fort and Inner fire.. has both more health AND more armor than a rogue? You believe this is OK?

8. Do you realize that dodge is useless against every class except paladins and other rogues? Do you realize that this is our primary defensive ability and that it doesn't help defend us against anything? If you mention picking your fights.. refer to number 4.

9. Do you realize that most level 60 rogues in awesome gear have less attack power than a non-60 warrior with battle shout up? What is the rationale for having our attack power so low? If you are afraid of ambushes and backstabs doing too much damage, please remember that our crits are the least impressive of other DPS classes.. by a large margin.

10. Do you realize that any rogue who wants to do any sort of reasonable damage and be effective outright HAS to spec at least 17/0/0? And that ANY effective dagger build HAS to spec 17/8/10? Do you honestly believe that such restrictive build options are OK? Do you promote having certain talents that are outright a requirement for the entire class base? Innervate was an important ability for *most* druids, certainly not all.. and yet they received it. 17/8/10 is a requirement for *ALL* dagger rogues, and 17/0/0 is a requirement for *ALL* rogues period. Do you realize this?
From The Rogue Class is Dead (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-rogue&T=1380007&P=3):
too bad mages can Ice Block out of basically anything in the game, try again. That blind is just a waste of gold, and they just re-sheep you, you lose and have just wasted all your cooldowns, and now you pray that you don't encounter anyone for another 5 minutes to let your cooldowns regen.

I love theorycraft.
There are many such posts floating around in WoW rogue forum but I am quoting these two because they appear to be some of the more readable and coherent ones out there, lost in a sea of unintelligible and unreadable garbage clogging up the site. Apparently lot of the posters can't spell, have horrible grammar, and/or just doesn't know how to write (not that I am much better, but that's besides the point.)

For many players of WoW who have leveled a rogue to 60 and have spent considerable amount of time in various high level instances/raids and/or participated in PvP against experienced players of classes other than rogue, their valid points can be highlighted/summarized as follows:

1. Rogues are obsolete. Rogues are not wanted in raids because their sole purpose in high level instances, which is to provide high DPS can be bested by warriors spec'ed in fury and high damage gear. Mages can also out DPS rogues. Rogues' crowd control abilities/skills do not work in raids because the monsters in high level dungeons are highly resistant, if not immune, to such tactics.

2. Rogues are a liability. Being the only melee class in leather gear, they have very poor survivability. So tanking is out of the question. If rogues can't tank, then they should at least provide high DPS. But other classes can provide better DPS than rogues. (read #1) Warriors, for instance, can switch their gear from tanking to high DPS gear in an instant to DPS better than Rogues. With this kind of flexibility, the group has no need for Rogues. In raids, the survivability of the entire team depends on 100% contribution from every member. Poor viability and survivability of the Rogue class makes them a liability. For this reason, raid spots are better reserved for players of other classes.

Then there are more issues with Rogues in PvP. Since I haven't PvP'ed in WoW yet (I haven't even installed WoW yet!), I won't get into this for two reasons; (1) I haven't played the game as of yet, (2) there are many well written intelligent posts in WoW Rogue Discussion forums that makes valid points about the class needing some serious re-adjustments with talents/skills. What's unfortunate is that many of such posts are lost in a sea of incoherent ramblings from presumably prepubescent teensters. Then there are players who retaliate vehemently to such posts in fear that devs might respond by nerfing their class to better balance the game. The forums are further crowded with non-rogues or inexperienced rogue players masquerading as level 60 rogues to shoot down every legitimate concerns brought up by true rogues. And the devs (especially Drysc) who are in position to help resolve these issues are overwhelmed and frustrated by waves of incessant complaints from the general rogue population, not to mention that they are currently aware of the real problems with the Rogue class and yet they aren't sure themselves how to fix them. Then throw in some Blizzard fanboys who defends every comments the devs make, and the naysayers who has to dissect and nitpick anything and everything what others have said about on any topic (they choose Rogue Discusson forum because that's what's *HOT* right now) because they live/love to argue. Then there are those who tell others that everything's fine, that there's nothing wrong with the Rogue class, telling others to shut up and just play the game, not understanding the real issues at hand. And last but not least, casual players and general population trying to stay informed about current events and issues with the Rogue class who has to wade thru piles of rubbish mile high just to get to the real story.

I admit that it has been ALWAYS difficult to implement rogue class properly. This comes from my own prior experience with EQ and what I know about similar and subsequent MMORPGs such as DAoC. Stealth classes have never been easy to implement properly and the end result is game imbalance. And they'll never be easy unless the game developers go back to the drawing board and redesign the game from foundation up with specifically stealth in mind. Until then, reading the WoW Rogue Discussion board (aka charade) may ultimately provide more entertainment than playing the game itself. :rolleyes:

[ddrueckhammer]

So what rogues aren't that badly needed in raids. Rogues are nice PvP though. As I said before, a rogue and a druid are the perfect wrecking crew in the BGs. You can get extremely high level gear by raiding BGs...Also, rogues are ridiculously nice is world PvP.

Reasons why people don't like rogues on raids include:

1. If they run around stealthed inexperienced rogues who are seen will pull a train to the group.
2. Rogues who don't manage agro are dead. The main problem I see with rogues is that they fail to manage agro. If they do so much damage that they take agro away from the tank, then they aren't far away from the mob like a Mage, and don't have pets like Locks/Hunters to divide up their damage. In short, if they get agro they die. IMHO people who take the agro away from the tank are noobs and deserve to die. Also, if the tank doesn't taunt properly he is a noob and deserves to die too. I have main tanked some pretty high instances with my Feral Druid.

[ScarletRed]

Correct me if I am wrong but the very best of the gears are obtained from raids, no?

Unless you happen to be one of the very few who were 'lucky' enough to secure a position in a hardcore raiding guild (they limit rogues only to a tiny fraction of their guild population for a good reason), the endgame raids are out of most Rogue players' reach. And in the endgame, WoW is all about raids, yes? So there goes the fun for rogues...

So what rogues aren't that badly needed in raids. Rogues are nice PvP though. As I said before, a rogue and a druid are the perfect wrecking crew in the BGs. You can get extremely high level gear by raiding BGs...
Thank you for acknowledging that rogues are useless in raids. As for your other comment, I guess you didn't read the long quote I posted above by one of the top ranking rogue players from Onyxia server. He is one of the most well equipped rogue there. Currently he is so fed up with the Rogue imbalance, he has recently started playing a warrior instead.

[ScarletRed]

From New names for talent trees in 1.12! (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-rogue&t=1380336&p=1&tmp=1#post1380336)
Seriously, from Blizzard:

The Assasination tree will be renamed "Mandatory" in the next patch, as it really isn't related to killing targets faster and a minimum of 15 points (16/17 preferred) are absolutely required in any rogue build. We hope that this name change will clarify the purpose of the tree.

The Combat tree will be renamed "Bloated" in the next patch, as the sheer number of talents needed from this tree for any raiding build prevents players from getting useful talents in other trees.

Finally, the Subtlety tree will be renamed "Random" as this tree has absolutely no central feature or purpose beyond where we have tossed random, unrelated talents together. The previous name is no longer useable due to the attack power, armor penetration, and other new talents introduced in the patch and the fact that it doesn't assist the rogue in maintaining stealth or with PVP survival in any significant way.

We will continue to evaluate and modify talent and tree names in the future as the need occurs to prevent confusion when choosing talents for a spec.
This has to be one of the funniest things I've read from WoW Rogue Discussion forum.:D

[ddrueckhammer]

Nope Raiding isn't the only way to get the top gear in endgame, you can get great gear from BG rewards but you have to be really good at PvP, and have a solid group as well, so it isn't geared toward the solo player but you could do it with a smaller group than is required for endgame raiding.

The guy who posted that may or may not be the best equipped on Onyxia and alot of what you read about is hyperbole. Rogues are useful in raids, they just have to manage agro like everyone else. They are spectacular in PvP though and PvP is another great way to go besides raiding but requires just as much time if not more to get great gear. The only way to see what the people on the WoW boards are whining about is to play a rogue to 60 yourself. If you want to play a rogue, play a rogue. Be the best rogue you can be and you won't have problems finding groups for instance raids, BGs or anything else.

[ScarletRed]

I am very unclear on which trade skills are primary and which are secondary.

A character is limited to two primary skills while there is no limit on the number of secondary skills that he/she may learn. I tried WoW professions forum and none of the FAQs there have clarified this issue. Does anyone here know which are primary and which are secondary?

[Kaioshin]

I am very unclear on which trade skills are primary and which are secondary.

A character is limited to two primary skills while there is no limit on the number of secondary skills that he/she may learn. I tried WoW professions forum and none of the FAQs there have clarified this issue. Does anyone here know which are primary and which are secondary?

Primary: Skinning, Mining, Leatherworking, Blacksmithing, Herbalism, Alchemy, Engineering, Enchanting, Tailoring.
Secondary: Fishing, First Air, Cooking.

...for now.

[ScarletRed]

Thank you. It looks like the game manual is wrong... They have First Aid listed as one of the primary skills.

[Kaioshin]

Oh, I completely forgot to mention. I think you're warned in-game when you choose a primary profession that this is either "the first of two you may learn" or "the second and final".

I don't have my game manual at hand (heck, I haven't seen it in months) to check what it says about the professions, but I am very certain that First Aid is a secondary profession.

[ScarletRed]

You play a mage, don't you? If you have, which primary skill sets would make an effective combination? Would your answer depend on which side you're on (Alliance or the Horde)? Which would you choose if you were to play as a Blood Elf Mage in the upcoming expansion? (Jewercrafting is an option here!)

[Kaioshin]

To tell the truth I never put too much thought into this. When I played as a mage for a bit my skills were Herbalism and Alchemy, mainly because I wanted easy access to mana potions.
At the present moment, I use two gathering professions (skinning and mining) so I make money.

Sorry, but I cannot give any advice here.

[ScarletRed]

I take it that Alchemy/Herbalism professions did not bring you much money? Aren't mana potions in high demand? Or any of the other products made by alchemists for that matter.

[rumbletum]

I don't have my game manual at hand (heck, I haven't seen it in months) to check what it says about the professions, but I am very certain that First Aid is a secondary profession.


You're right, First Aid is a secondary profession

[Badradio]

For those of you who think there aren't any issues with the current Rogue class...
I only read the start of your post as I recognised it as something you see a lot of on the WoW class forums. Before you buy into the rogue issues listed, check out the other class forums - there'll be a vocal minority calling the end of the world for each class. When the mage talents were announced for patch 1.11, the mage forums were buried under "I'm leaving the game, this is terrible" threads, but I took the respec and it's revolutionised my game - the changes were amazing and I'm performing much better in both PvP and PvE.
People always want their class to be the top performers, and complain when they aren't. I find the classes to be well balance right now, and the rogue respec in the next patch shouldn't do much to change that.

[ddrueckhammer]

You want to take two gathering professions at first and sell everything you get. Get Mining/Skinning or Skinning/Herbalism probably. Once you get to a higher level dump one of them and pick up Enchanting or Alchemy. Finally, after you level that skill up get rid of your final gathering profession and get two professions like Alchemy/Enchating (for a mage). You want to get first aid, and cooking for sure as a Mage, as well and work on fishing in your spare time for some extra cash...

[ScarletRed]

You want to take two gathering professions at first and sell everything you get. Get Mining/Skinning or Skinning/Herbalism probably. Once you get to a higher level dump one of them and pick up Enchanting or Alchemy. Finally, after you level that skill up get rid of your final gathering profession and get two professions like Alchemy/Enchating (for a mage). You want to get first aid, and cooking for sure as a Mage, as well and work on fishing in your spare time for some extra cash...
How would this change if I were planning Blood Elf mage as my main? I was thinking about starting as an undead mage now with specialty in Herbalism/xxxx. This way, by the time the expansion set is released in November, the undead mage should be high enough of level with large amassed herbs and xxxx. With the Blood Elf mage as my new main, I should be able to start off in Alchemy/Enchanting right away. Just an idea.

[ddrueckhammer]

How would this change if I were planning Blood Elf mage as my main? I was thinking about starting as an undead mage now with specialty in Herbalism/xxxx. This way, by the time the expansion set is released in November, the undead mage should be high enough of level with large amassed herbs and xxxx. With the Blood Elf mage as my new main, I should be able to start off in Alchemy/Enchanting right away. Just an idea.

I'm not sure I haven't played that race yet but you want to do the gathering professions first to get money. Money is in short supply early in the game and if you have two gathering profs then you will be rich. My main is a master alchemist and transmutes and some pots sell for good but it takes a long time to start making money with these. Enchanting is a very lucrative trade and very useful for casting classes but you simply won't be able to get the gold to level it up that much early in the game as it is the most expensive trade-skill at the moment. You can always change trade-skills you just have to start from scratch leveling. If you choose herbalism you will eventually want Alchemy but I would start out with skinning first to make the money to finance your endeavors. Once, you max out Alchemy then I would pick up enchanting as you will be able to powerlevel it up at that point. Of course, you will be saving for your epic mount at this point too. Also, whenever you get extra cash, buy recipies for high level transmutes and pots from the vendors and resell them on the AH. It is a really quick way to make some easy cash. For alchemy, I made good money on Air Transmutes and Arcanite Transmutes I think. There are some other good ones but the recipes are expensive of course. Eventually, you will want to find some good selling high level pots as transmutes can only be done once every 24-48 hours...

[ScarletRed]

I don't suppose you know of any PvE servers with newbie-friendly guilds (Horde)?

[ddrueckhammer]

Sorry most of my characters are Alliance because thats what my friends in real life were when I began playing...Just level and make sure and do some instances like Shadow Fang Keep, Wailing Caverns, RFD, RFK, and Scarlett Monestary early on and you will get invited to a guild. I don't know all of the horde instances but other good ones later are Uldaman, ZF, and Scholo before you get to endgame level instances at least. You can do any instance in the game if you have a group but some are more accessible to Horde and some more to Alliance. Even if you are on a PVE server you will want to watch for gaurds...

[weldon]

Alchemy isn't a great money maker. Transmutes can give good stuff, but they have a 24 hour cooldown timer. Can't get rich that way.

I would definitely pick skinning and either mining or herbalism. Use the Gatherer UI mod to help you out. You can have either the mining or herbalism finder on your mini map, but not both. You can switch back and forth, but it's a pain.

It's worthwhile to keep the gathering professions as you get up in level because your higher level characters can gather the rare resources found in dangerous zones or off dangerous mobs (skinning). Some of the other professions don't really require that you enter high level zones (blacksmithing has some things where you have to work at a forge in a high-level instance).

Your alts can take up some of the crafting professions to make things from the resources gathered by your main character.

The secondary skills are useful, particularly first aid. I ignored first aid at first and then powerleveled to 300 skill points at level 40 or so. It was pretty easy to just buy the required cloth materials and complete the quest/test to get to 300. It's highly useful because I can heal 1000+ HP on several different party members very quickly. And most humanoid mobs drop cloth of various types.

You can also powerlevel fishing and cooking together by collecting the right fish recipes and fishing for those fish in the right places. My cooking is 300 and my fishing is at 250 or so.

[ddrueckhammer]

That is a good point. I have friends who keep gathering skills even at lvl 60. I got to the point that I really didn't need money that much anymore as I have plenty of ways of making a few hundred gold if I needed to. (I was in one of the top guilds on my server..) He's right alchemy isn't a good money maker at all but it can make some money at higher levels. The pots come in handy in long fights though....

[ScarletRed]

But my primary interest in Herbalism is for potions with all those herbs gathered on my first character.

[weldon]

But my primary interest in Herbalism is for potions with all those herbs gathered on my first character.
At lower levels, the materials gathered are worth more than the finished potion. You would be better off selling the materials and buying the potions. Even at high levels, the herbs often sell for very close to the price of the potions you can make but at higher levels the potions sell faster than the herbs (elixir of agility is a constant moneymaker). I did herbalism/alchemy because I thought it was cool, but it's not the best way to make money.

[ScarletRed]

Who here have participated in guild raids using Ventrilo? Since I have never used it, I don't know anything about their compatibility with macs. Would the compatibility depend on the version of codec in use? I am so clueless when it comes to softwares...

[Plutonius]

Who here have participated in guild raids using Ventrilo? Since I have never used it, I don't know anything about their compatibility with macs. Would the compatibility depend on the version of codec in use? I am so clueless when it comes to softwares...

Ventrilo works well with Macs. You just need your Ventrillo admin to select the speex codec on the Ventrillo server (pulldown menu). All the pc users also need to update to the latest Ventrillo or you will get sound quality issues. Go to the Ventrillo homepage and check out the Mac forums.

One note is that Macs require a powered microphone (you can not just plug in a pc microphone). You can get a USB powered microphone and they work well. Just be sure it's Mac compatible.

[ScarletRed]

For MacBook Pro users, how do we toggle run mode so that we can type in the chat window while running? I was following a person to Brill last night and he asked me a few questions along the way. He did this while running but I had to stop moving to answer his questions. And he couldn't help me because he was a PC user and didn't know how UI worked on a mac. Kinda inconvenient.

[ddrueckhammer]

For MacBook Pro users, how do we toggle run mode so that we can type in the chat window while running? I was following a person to Brill last night and he asked me a few questions along the way. He did this while running but I had to stop moving to answer his questions. And he couldn't help me because he was a PC user and didn't know how UI worked on a mac. Kinda inconvenient.

Just go in and customize the command. I changed the command to \ on mine...

[ScarletRed]

Just go in and customize the command. I changed the command to \ on mine...
Yes, customize was what I tried. I resized the chat window and did other minor cosmetics by using Right-Clicking. But for toggling run-mode, I have no idea. Key-Bindings didn't do the trick either. So just telling me to "customize the command" isn't going to help.

EDIT: In Key-Bindings window, next to Run-Toggle, there are two columns of pre-assigned keys. The left column says CLEAR and the right column says Mouse Button #4. I searched on my MBP for a key labeled "Clear" but I didn't see it.

Does anyone here play WoW on their MBP? If so, how do you handle the run-toggle issue?

[ddrueckhammer]

Well by "customize the commands" I meant change the keybindings....Sorry without having it up on the screen i can't tell you how to do it specifically but you are in the right area. You're right there is not a clear...you need to change that to something else...

[weldon]

to set the "Autorun" key...

Press "esc" to bring up the main menu
click "key bindings"
click the red button next to "Toggle Autorun"
press the key you want to bind to this command
you should see a message "Key Bound Successfully" at the bottom of the window
click "OK"
click "return to game" (or press "esc")

[ddrueckhammer]

Thats how you do it. Sorry I couldn't visualize it without having the game in front of me.

[ScarletRed]

I am an idiot. It just occurred to me that if there is no CLEAR key on MBP, I can assign another one! Ugh...sometimes I can be so utterly hopeless, it never ceases to amaze me.

Thank you for the help, weldon and ddrueckhammer. :)

[ScarletRed]

I am using Logitech Marble Mouse (four buttons) on my MBP whenever I play WoW. It appears that auto-looting does not work as advertised.

SHIFT-RIGHT Clicking does not auto-loot so what I end up doing is manually clicking each and every item in the lootbag. I am curious how other mac users deal with auto-looting.

[Gasu E.]

I am using Logitech Marble Mouse (four buttons) on my MBP whenever I play WoW. It appears that auto-looting does not work as advertised.

SHIFT-RIGHT Clicking does not auto-loot so what I end up doing is manually clicking each and every item in the lootbag. I am curious how other mac users deal with auto-looting.


I'm using the cheapest Logitech mouse (2-button plus scroll) I could find (sorry, don't know the model, and I'm at work right now). Auto-looting works fine with it. Are you sure your "right" button is properly bound? Have you tried swimming (also requires the right mouse button)?

[ScarletRed]

I'm using the cheapest Logitech mouse (2-button plus scroll) I could find (sorry, don't know the model, and I'm at work right now). Auto-looting works fine with it. Are you sure your "right" button is properly bound? Have you tried swimming (also requires the right mouse button)?
My character can swim. But swimming does not require Right mouse button. To swim, you simply run thru water. What I cannot make my character do, however, is to swim underwater (as in Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion). I heard that one can swim underwater but I have not been able to. How is swimming underwater done in WoW?

And yes, my Right mouse button is properly bound. As to why auto-looting does not work, it's a mystery.

[rumbletum]

TO swim underwater, you use the right mouse button

[ScarletRed]

Just so there's no confusion:

right button = correct button (right vs. wrong)

Right button = the button on the right side (left vs. right)


When you say "you use the right button to swim underwater", that does not help me much at all since I don't know what the 'right' button is for swimming underwater. I did try every single button on my keyboard and on my mouse. None of them made my character dive underwater.

[Gasu E.]

To swim underwater and auto-loot, you use the

Right

dexter

droit

derecha

reactionary

mouse button, not the

Left

sinistre

gauche

commie-pinko

southpaw

mouse button

[ScarletRed]

And the Right button does not work as intended.

Right button does not auto-loot on my MBP. Shift-Right button does not auto-loot either.

Right button does not make my character swim underwater. Neither does Shift-Right click.

[bobber205]

Have you tried just pressing down. Or maybe jumping "down" into the water?

[ScarletRed]

Yes.

[Mord]

i just use ctrl clicking to swim underwater, just hold it and point where you want to swim.

[rumbletum]

Just so there's no confusion:

right button = correct button (right vs. wrong)

Right button = the button on the right side (left vs. right)


When you say "you use the right button to swim underwater", that does not help me much at all since I don't know what the 'right' button is for swimming underwater. I did try every single button on my keyboard and on my mouse. None of them made my character dive underwater.

The correct button to swim underwater is the right mouse button (assuming that you have set up your mouse the standard way with the left button being the primary button). :rolleyes:

And you do have to hold it down to swim underwater, rather than just press it once

[Abulia]

I just read the last few pages of this post. Some friendly advice for Scarlet Red:

1) Dude, it's a game. Don't stress out over a game. You're putting way too much thought and planning into an experience that can't be "won." In doing so you're missing the obvious. Bob wasn't suggesting you destroy Tier 2 items instead of repairing them, he was talking about while you level from 1-10 for example. And he's RIGHT! No there's no "clear" key on your keyboard but if you were not so stressed out about how to "beat" WoW and maximize it you would have noticed that immediately.

2) Stay away from the official WoW forums. Seriously. You'll get more from sites like this than the reams of dribble you'll get on the WoW forums. EVERY class "is dead." EVERY class needs to be nerfed. EVERY class is "totally useless."

3) Don't worry about the endgame until you get there. Levels 1-59 are totally different than 60. It sounds silly but 60 is "a whole new game." You'll change the way you play at 60. You'll change your talent spec. Etc, etc.

4) Try and learn. Try Alchemy. Don't like it? Drop it! You can drop tradeskills and leveling them is fast. You want cash? Get two gathering professions. You want some nifty gear? Try blacksmithing. The same with classes. Every class is fun in its own way. Until you play each of them to 20 (easily done in a weekend, per class) you really won't get a good feel for them.

WoW is a very fun game with a minimal learning curve. There's no penalty for death so go nuts. Characters are quick to level. Alts are a dime a dozen. There's no way to really mess up the game. After a few weeks you'll probably start with UI enhancements to extend the gaming experience further. Join a guild, play with some friends and have a good time.

It is, after all just a game!