Nintendo DS Browser and WPA Security

[HiRez]

I've read that the DS browser addon is not going to support WPA encryption. This seems like a very very major flaw that is going to hamper widespread use. For your home, yes, you could drop down your wireless encryption to WEP if you really wanted to, just to use the DS. But most hotspots (and most any network you run across, be it at someone's home or business) nowadays are going to be using WPA, not WEP. If I understand it correctly, that's it: you can't use the DS with it, and that stinks, to put it mildly. Actually I think it's the DS itself that can't work with WPA, not the browser, but it'll affect a lot of people who want to use the browser. Is there any way the firmware could be updated to support WPA? This combined with the browser supposedly not supporting Flash (which increasingly a lot of sites require) really tempers my enthusiasm for it. Am I wrong in saying Nintendo has taken a short-sighted, half-assed approach to the whole internet-connectivity experience on the DS?

[screensaver400]

The DS probably only has a 11b chipset. I believe WPA is only available with 11g.

[GFLPraxis]

I've read that the DS browser addon is not going to support WPA encryption. This seems like a very very major flaw that is going to hamper widespread use. For your home, yes, you could drop down your wireless encryption to WEP if you really wanted to, just to use the DS. But most hotspots (and most any network you run across, be it at someone's home or business) nowadays are going to be using WPA, not WEP. If I understand it correctly, that's it: you can't use the DS with it, and that stinks, to put it mildly. Actually I think it's the DS itself that can't work with WPA, not the browser, but it'll affect a lot of people who want to use the browser. Is there any way the firmware could be updated to support WPA? This combined with the browser supposedly not supporting Flash (which increasingly a lot of sites require) really tempers my enthusiasm for it. Am I wrong in saying Nintendo has taken a short-sighted, half-assed approach to the whole internet-connectivity experience on the DS?

The DS itself doesn't support WPA for some reason- none of the WiFi games for it can use it. I don't think you can blame the browser for that.

Flash missing is the only thing that annoys me. Although I have heard that the PSP handles Flash badly, and the DS is only 1/3rd the power, so I can see why.

Either way; Nintendo aren't even developing the browser. Opera is.

[raggedjimmi]

I don't have any encryption up here, just a hidden SSID. chances are I won't be using the WiFi outside of uni, which again has no encryption. fine and dandy for me. not saying it will be for everyone mind.

[erickkoch]

I guess we'll have to wait for the "DS Lite Plus" or whatever upgrade name they call it. This is an annoying oversight. I had planned to use the browser function when I go out of town instead of taking my PB to browse and check e-mail. :mad:

[GFLPraxis]

I guess we'll have to wait for the "DS Lite Plus" or whatever upgrade name they call it. This is an annoying oversight. I had planned to use the browser function when I go out of town instead of taking my PB to browse and check e-mail. :mad:


...why can't you? I've yet to use WPA, even on my laptop. Most hotspots are either free or paid, not encrypted. The free ones are open, the paid ones require you to authenticate using a web browser before the router servers your computer. The only time I can see you needing WPA is if you use a company WiFi network, or a friend's network who uses it- resteraunts and hotels generally won't have WPA.

[ddrueckhammer]

I haven't tested outside of my apartment yet but I will start taking my DS Lite with me and see if I can get on with the networks at various schools, hotels, and restaurants. If MPH or MKDS will work I assume the browser will work.

I had to lower my security down to WEP 40-bit to use my DS Lite on my home network but I really don't care because I doubt anyone will try to break it if there is any security at all.

The Browser + Play-Yan Micro + fabled Organizer Plus + equally fabled Voip software + a TV tuner that actually works with US analog channels makes the DS Lite the ultimate convergence device in my mind...I never thought I would see a device that would be capable of so much in one package.

I think some of these functions will eventually come to the iPod and cell phones but probably at a greater cost and less functionality. The iPod will probably eventually have a web browser for downloading songs on the go and cell phones already have internet and audio/video/pda/tv functionality but are too expensive and actually a much worse interface than the DS Lite. I have read some complaints about having to put a cart in to browse but really is it that hard to change carts? If any of this software doesn't make it to the US I plan on importing the ones that work here and come in multi-regional format...

[raggedjimmi]

Yup, my cousins pub has a paid (Cloud) wifi service. no WPA. pub nextdoor? free and open to anyone (even me if I'm in the garden :D ). ok thats it for the hills. Macdonalds don't use WPA as they're advertising the ability to play DS in their crap-factories.

[CubeHacker]

I don't think the DS has any hardware supported networking capabilities. What I mean by that is that the CPU is doing all the packet decrypting/encrypting, etc. I say this because i've noticed a lot of slowdown in games occasionally when I play multiplayer that simply doesn't exist when I play single player.

Since WPA encryption is far more complex compared to WEP, thats most likely the reason the DS does not support it - not enough CPU power.

As for only 802.11g devices having WPA support, I don't believe thats true because my original Airport card (11b) supports WPA just fine. Its WPA2 that requires a G hardware I believe.

[GFLPraxis]

I say this because i've noticed a lot of slowdown in games occasionally when I play multiplayer that simply doesn't exist when I play single player.

Oh no, that's lag, caused by internet connections. On a PC, Playing online with a lot of people, or vs people with slower connections, does that a lot too.

[JDOG_]

Ideally Nintendo would do a firmware update that would:

A. Add WPA support

B. Get rid of the health warning screen. Can't believe it's somehow okay to have that on there EVERY time you boot up the system and have it require user input.

[shadowmoses]

Ideally Nintendo would do a firmware update that would:

A. Add WPA support

B. Get rid of the health warning screen. Can't believe it's somehow okay to have that on there EVERY time you boot up the system and have it require user input.

Never thought about it but its true the health warning screen is silly and should only be up on the intial boot....

SHadOW

[CubeHacker]

Oh no, that's lag, caused by internet connections. On a PC, Playing online with a lot of people, or vs people with slower connections, does that a lot too.

No, its slowdown, not lag. Reason I say this is because:

1.) I'm playing local multiplayer, not over WFC
2.) The game (specifically Mario Kart balloon battle multiplay) slows down, as in slow-mo.
3.) I know the difference between lag and game slowdown/choppy framerates.

Its quite possible that its CPU AI thats slowing the game down that much. But then it should technically do it in singleplayer mode too. But it doesn't - only in multiplayer.

Still however, I have not noticed any slowdowns when playing Mario Kart DS over WFC, so... who knows?

[GFLPraxis]

Ideally Nintendo would do a firmware update that would:

A. Add WPA support

B. Get rid of the health warning screen. Can't believe it's somehow okay to have that on there EVERY time you boot up the system and have it require user input.

I've already hacked my firmware to kill the health and saftey warning screen (I don't have one on my DS, w00t) and let me tell you, Nintendo won't have an easy time delivering an update.

A considerable chunk of the DS's firmware, the deepest stuff, is physically write protected. I had to physically disassemble my DS and hold a bent paperclip in the right position to short both the SL1's to completely overwrite the firmware.

[GFLPraxis]

No, its slowdown, not lag. Reason I say this is because:

1.) I'm playing local multiplayer, not over WFC
2.) The game (specifically Mario Kart balloon battle multiplay) slows down, as in slow-mo.
3.) I know the difference between lag and game slowdown/choppy framerates.

Its quite possible that its CPU AI thats slowing the game down that much. But then it should technically do it in singleplayer mode too. But it doesn't - only in multiplayer.

Still however, I have not noticed any slowdowns when playing Mario Kart DS over WFC, so... who knows?

Hmmm, okay, you're right, hardware slowdown then.

[2nyRiggz]

Ideally Nintendo would do a firmware update that would:

Get rid of the health warning screen. Can't believe it's somehow okay to have that on there EVERY time you boot up the system and have it require user input.

I find it really nice that they would put that in front of all of there games....shows that they care(HA, they just don't want to get sued)...I don't mind it....doesnt take more than a touch of the screen to get rid of it.


Bless

[buffalo]

a little off topic...

How much will the internet browser be, and when will it be out (in the US)?

[mark!]

a little off topic...

How much will the internet browser be, and when will it be out (in the US)?

It is $33 in Japan. I don't think any release date has been....released.

[mkrishnan]

Mmmmm, I too want to see WPA on the DS...

But WPA at hotspots? In the US? I don't think so? I don't think I have ever seen that....

[ddrueckhammer]

It is $33 in Japan. I don't think any release date has been....released.

I think it will either be $34.99 or $29.99 in the states and they are supposed to say more about future release dates on July 24th. The higher cost is mainly because the package includes a memory upgrade for saving favorites and faster browsing.

[mark!]

I think it will either be $34.99 or $29.99 in the states and they are supposed to say more about future release dates on July 24th. The higher cost is mainly because the package includes a memory upgrade for saving favorites and faster browsing.

Cool. I want it. I'm glad there is a DS version and a DS lite version though.

Do you live in Florida? haha. just guessing from your location thingy.

[ddrueckhammer]

Cool. I want it. I'm glad there is a DS version and a DS lite version though.

Do you live in Florida? haha. just guessing from your location thingy.

Yes I live in Florida! I'm glad they are coming out with a DS Lite one too. Hopefully, they don't pull a Play-Yan and just leave us hanging. The only reason I haven't imported a Play-Yan Micro for .mp3 and mpeg 4 is the hope that they will release a DS Lite version in white that doesn't stick out so far...

[mark!]

Yes I live in Florida! I'm glad they are coming out with a DS Lite one too. Hopefully, they don't pull a Play-Yan and just leave us hanging. The only reason I haven't imported a Play-Yan Micro for .mp3 and mpeg 4 is the hope that they will release a DS Lite version in white that doesn't stick out so far...

Yeah, I wouldn't get either one (Play-Yan micro/ds ... if the ds one every comes out). Most of my movies/tv shows/music videos come from iTunes, so I wouldn't be able to put it on there anyway.

Browsing on the internet on the DS lite is going to be so much easier than it is on the PSP!

[ddrueckhammer]

Yeah, I wouldn't get either one (Play-Yan micro/ds ... if the ds one every comes out). Most of my movies/tv shows/music videos come from iTunes, so I wouldn't be able to put it on there anyway.

Browsing on the internet on the DS lite is going to be so much easier than it is on the PSP!

I would just get an iPod w/ Video but after my 4G iPod died I told myself I wouldn't buy another HDD based player. The Play-Yan used flash memory which is a big advantage.

[mark!]

iPod nano?

[ddrueckhammer]

iPod nano?

Ah but no video playback too...Thats why the Play-Yan is nice...its one of the only flash based video players.

[mark!]

iPod linux for nano?

[ddrueckhammer]

iPod linux for nano?

Goodpoint...Do they have video playback for iPod Linux worked out yet? The last time I tried it was buggy....Still the screen on the DS is better and there is some software for Mac to organize the files called iPlay-Yan...

[mark!]

Linux for DS?

haha, I wish. I don't know. I never had a problem with my iPod mini....'till I dropped it & killed the clickwheel. It was because I took the bottom thingy off and it ruined the connector, so it was my fault. So I loooove the iPod with video. yayayay for hd iPods.

[HiRez]

Mmmmm, I too want to see WPA on the DS...

But WPA at hotspots? In the US? I don't think so? I don't think I have ever seen that....Not hotspots but other networks, residential and corporate. I spend a lot of time at random Silicon Valley corporate sites, would be nice to be able to get online there without having to bring my PowerBook every time. Or let's say I travel to visit my family. Their network is WPA. Of course since they're my family I can probably switch it over to WEP while I'm there and back when I leave, it's just a bit of a PITA.

I do have a question about that though. I have a linksys travel router. If I tap into a WPA connection with that and rebroadcast it using WEP or no encryption, could I then use the network with a DS?

[bobber205]

I would just get an iPod w/ Video but after my 4G iPod died I told myself I wouldn't buy another HDD based player. The Play-Yan used flash memory which is a big advantage.

Like the above dude posted, get an ipod nano. It's flash based.

[GFLPraxis]

Like the above dude posted, get an ipod nano. It's flash based.

Better yet, get a student to buy you a new Mac and get a new iPod Nano with it free :D

[ddrueckhammer]

Better yet, get a student to buy you a new Mac and get a new iPod Nano with it free :D

Haha...I am a student. I will probably do this when I order my Core 2 Duo iMac when they come out. I still think the fact that the Play-Yan Micro for DS can play video from flash cards if pretty sweet. Sadly, the screen on a Nano is too small for video IMO even if it could play them...

[GFLPraxis]

Haha...I am a student. I will probably do this when I order my Core 2 Duo iMac when they come out. I still think the fact that the Play-Yan Micro for DS can play video from flash cards if pretty sweet. Sadly, the screen on a Nano is too small for video IMO even if it could play them...

I decided to buy an iMac at the end of August, regardless (the back to school deal ends at the beginning of September)- hopefully new iMacs will come out at WWDC in August.

[mkrishnan]

I do have a question about that though. I have a linksys travel router. If I tap into a WPA connection with that and rebroadcast it using WEP or no encryption, could I then use the network with a DS?

Is that technically possible with the router? I know a Mac laptop can do this (see earlier discussion of internet sharing). But I'm not sure how to do it with a router. If you can do it in the sense that you can get the router on the network and make it broadcast a separate lower-grade encryption network, then, sure, it ought to be possible...

[ddrueckhammer]

Is that technically possible with the router? I know a Mac laptop can do this (see earlier discussion of internet sharing). But I'm not sure how to do it with a router. If you can do it in the sense that you can get the router on the network and make it broadcast a separate lower-grade encryption network, then, sure, it ought to be possible...

I'm not sure if your router would do it or not you will just have to experiment but you can always get a Nintendo Wi-Fi USB Connector (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_Wi-Fi_USB_Connector) if you have a laptop that can boot into Windows XP. Too bad it isn't Mac compatible.

[ddrueckhammer]

I decided to buy an iMac at the end of August, regardless (the back to school deal ends at the beginning of September)- hopefully new iMacs will come out at WWDC in August.

To be honest, I think they will be at MacExpo Paris. That would suck for you if they are. I will wait for that, even if they don't come out before the end of the Student Union promo. The $1199 (after mail in rebat) and not tax/ no shipping deal from Amazon is pretty good considering you have to pay that plus Tax which is almost a Nano from Apple. I might buy the iMac from Amazon and get a refurbed Nano with free accessory...

[GFLPraxis]

To be honest, I think they will be at MacExpo Paris. That would suck for you if they are. I will wait for that, even if they don't come out before the end of the Student Union promo. The $1199 (after mail in rebat) and not tax/ no shipping deal from Amazon is pretty good considering you have to pay that plus Tax which is almost a Nano from Apple. I might buy the iMac from Amazon and get a refurbed Nano with free accessory...


Yes...yes, it would suck :) But...


When you buy a Mac and iPod Nano by September 16, 2006, your iPod nano is free after mail-in rebate.* Or choose another iPod and enjoy big savings after mail-in rebate.* Plus, use your education discount to save even more.

MacExpo Paris is September 12th through 16th. So I suspect I will be buying my iMac on...September 15th or 16th if no iMac is released or announced at WWDC :)

[ddrueckhammer]

Ah good point...I'm doing the exact same thing as you then. iMac for the home and Opera on DS for browsing on the road!