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MacRumors
Jul 25, 2001, 08:49 PM
Go2Mac has (http://www.go2mac.com/story.lasso?newsID=8089) a small rumors/tidbit attributed to an Apple official regarding the release on an LCD iMac and revised TiBook at Apple-Expo in Paris (Sept 2001).

Ah... the rumor mills continue to churn...

menoinjun
Jul 25, 2001, 10:33 PM
Definetly a new TiBook. Will have a DVD/CDRW drive, and who knows about color options. (although if Apple is really serious about the professional image of the laptop, colors may not be available) Speed bumps are probable, but change in ram to PC-133 or DDR is doubtfull. I would say next revision would be the time for that.




About the iMacs...it's possible I guess. I am very hesitant to start up another frenzy of LCD rumors, but the LCD simply might not have been ready for MWNY, and that is why Steve was rumored to be so dissappointed. I would be more inclined to say that next San Fransico we will see new iMacs, not Paris.

-Who wants to give the French the benefit of the release anyhow?

-Pete

Anyone know when or if Netscape is planning to release a browser for OS X? I am sick of IE, and I don't want the Opera beta.

arn
Jul 25, 2001, 10:48 PM
Check out the Carbon Mozilla builds...

http://www.mozilla.org - you can download the most recent "release" OS X build...

or, if you're more adventurous...

ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/nightly/

Nightly builds...


arn

DaveGee
Jul 25, 2001, 11:07 PM
I've got no "inside sources" nor have I heard this from a "friend of a friend of a friend who's sisters cousin works for apple" so take this for what it's worth (pure speculation).

That being said... Could it be that the Hardware offerings at MWNY were.... shall we say 'less than expected' and/or 'out of character for Mr. Jobs' have something to do with the non-release of Mac OS X v10.1?

Think about it for a second...

Fact the iMac is the biggest selling computer Apple makes.
Fact the iMac is way over due for a face lift.
Fact doing such a face lift really shouldn't be THAT hard.

The cube proves they have the talent to shrink things down.
The iBook proves that they COULD build an LCD iMac NOW and still make a profit.

So lets assume Apple does have an LCD iMac...

Q: Why not show/sell it at MWNY?
A: No OS X, No LCD iMac!

While yes Mac OS 9.x must still be usable/bootable on any new Apple hardware it could very well be that Jobs wanted/wants to make a real push to get OS X out to the masses. What better way than to have each and every iMac-TNG (the NeXT gen) boot up with it! After all it (the iMac) is the best selling Mac and it's by far the best way to get OS X 'in use'.

Problem is 10.0.x just isn't ready for the iMac buyer (well many of them anyway) and while 10.1 would be (fingers crossed) it didn't make the cut for MWNY thus killing the 'major' hardware news for the keynote.

Some might say... So ship the machine with 9.2! But that goes against the 'best interest' of Mac OS X. The average iMac buyer might not be easy to 'covert' to Mac OS X once they get the machine home... After all how many of YOUR parents are still using Netscape 4.x or MSIE v3.x. Well unless YOU did the upgrade for them.

So long winded as my speculation is ... it does make some sence.

Dave

afs_nj
Jul 25, 2001, 11:19 PM
I no, I no. I shouln't wait to buy. But I waited for MWNY01 and September is right around the corner.

On the other hand, I wanted to purchse a laptop and be up and running by the time school starts in September.

AlexNJ

arn
Jul 26, 2001, 05:26 AM
Get the ibook.

The chance of an updated iBook is pretty slim... it's still pretty new.

arn

Megaquad
Jul 26, 2001, 07:16 AM
paris aple expo:
-mac os x 10.1/9.2 preinstalled on all computers
-os 9.2 is in complete background and steve want say nothing about it..
-PowerBook G4 500/600 Mhz/GeForce 2 Go 32 MB/20/30hdd/cd-rw/combo drive
-games,new software..

january 2001:
-new 15" LCD iMac g3 600/700/800 mhz/30/40/60 gb hdd/GeForce 2 MX 32 MB SDRAM/cd-rw/combo...
-rev.b iceBook G3 700 MHz/10/20gb/Ati Rage 128 or GeForce 2 GO 16 mb/cd-rw/combo
-new iPicture application,iTunes 2

mortigitempo
Jul 26, 2001, 07:36 AM
I agree that the only reason apple didn't release the new iMacs at NY is because 10.1 isn't ready. If that is indeed the case, then surely apple will want to release them as soon as they can- and the best date looks like Paris, which has had product announcements at before. And guess what- there's a 'mystery' key note speaker scheduled- Mr Jobs you'd think. Also, surely the new powerbooks are more likely to come at the business focussed Seybold conference a few days before?

blakespot
Jul 26, 2001, 08:09 AM
I'd say the hardware rumors at macworld NY were massive and impressive. The high-end pro machine bascially became the low end, at a $1,300 price cut. And a modified enclosure to boot. Yea...no new iMac enclosures, but that was on the wilder end of the rumor spectrum. And only a fool thought that new iBooks would come so close to the recent dual-USB iBook release.

What more do you want? I'm amazed at people's takes on this.


blakespot

mymemory
Jul 26, 2001, 08:28 AM
From my humble point of view, I'll be the last person in buying/ getting OS X. Still very experimental, almost "none" aplications, takes more ram and I'll have to learn lots of other things too, that simple. OS 9.x can not be underated, OS X didn't have a reason to exist anyway, just because it was the version #10 of the system?

For the guy that is going to school (Powerbooks), the best deal actually is to buy a G3/500 Firewire, they are cheap, faster than the new iBook, lot of expansions, lots of ports, big LCD, 1MB back side cache, 2 bateries, burning CD/DVD optional, Airport, etc.

Apple have a real problem right now, to many things to resolve. In the last years they speed up the consumer with so many changes, now they are slowing down the production (OS X, iMac, G4...). They better pull up very hard this year because remind me some other story (Atari).

john123
Jul 26, 2001, 11:04 AM
You've gotta count on a new TiBook -- just because the product will have been sitting the same for nine months and that's just too long for any computer to go without change, no matter how innovative it was when it was introduced. Personally, I was hoping for (but not expecting) a TiBook revision at MWNY, but it's almost a guarantee at Paris.

That said, I wouldn't expect any major changes to the iBook. Education sales will continue to drive demand for the iBook all the way up to mid-September, and you do get a lot of bang-for-your-buck with the new iBooks (anything with a 500 Mhz processor for 1199, which is the edu price, kicks butt). Expect Apple to adopt a strategy similar to the one it did when it made the rev B PowerBooks: very minor upgrades (hard drive capacity or baseline memory) and perhaps a change in price to keep pace with the industry.

Scab Cake
Jul 26, 2001, 11:26 AM
Of course, you realize that there's going to have to be some sort of update to the iMac in September. With the release of OS 10.1, there's DVD playback. Right now, there are no DVD-playing iMacs. And I'm sure there's a market in that. I know my girlfriend wanted to get an iMac, but won't now because the DVD playback is something she really wants.

What better way to push some of the new features of OS 10.1 than to include a DVD drive (or perhaps a combo drive) in iMacs, whether they're redesigned or not, in September? Though this all makes sense to me right now, the problem is that I can't recall a keynote where Steve introduced the same machines that were being sold online with only a new optical drive. But, who knows? Maybe there wasn't such a big market for the DVD iMacs....

MattB
Jul 26, 2001, 11:34 AM
DaveGee made a great point!

Why not introduce OS 10.1 standard in a new version of Apple's best selling computer? Do you all realize how quickly the use of OS X would spread?!?!

It all makes PERFECT sense!

Luckster
Jul 26, 2001, 02:14 PM
I would not hold my breath for a brand new Ti Book. First, the 7410 processor is getting older. Motorola has a 600/700 Mhz laptop processor, but it requires a 133 board. Additionally, it generates more heat which needs to be disapated. I was disapointed that they did not include a combo drive, but at the same time, I don't believe a combo drive has been made which uses slot loading capabilities. Could someone check their iBook to see if Matshita made it? I am hard time deciding between a Ti or QS for school becuase the laptops have been stuck at 400/500 so long. Last time they stalled at about 100/117 Mhz. Then, they jumped to 240 Mhz. I would not be entierly suprised if the same thing happens to the Ti.

As for OS X being the hold up, I don't thinks so. The iMac already ships with OS X, so the possibility of an update really does not make all that much sense.

envirium
Jul 26, 2001, 02:33 PM
Hi Everybody..
Im currently a windows user with a IBM A22p Laptop and very interested in getting a powerbook. I was wondering if apple is trying to make there powerbook tailored to the professional market, do anyone think they are going to upgrade the resolution of the powerbook in the "onyx" version?... The Powerbook is running at a resolution of 1128x768 which is really really crappy for running any professional level software like dreamweaver and photoshop which I use everyday. That is why I chose the ThinkPad. I really want a powerbook but the resolution is horrible. Any Ideas?. Both laptops has a 15 inch LCD.

My ThinkPad - IBM A22p 15 inch LCD with native 1600x1200 resolution. (You should check it out it's super clear) Intel Mobile p3 1ghz, CDRW, 32 meg graphics, WINDOWS 2000, 32 gig HD. 256 RAM. All for 3100.00

Thanx,

A feature powerbook user (i hope)!

Luckster
Jul 26, 2001, 03:40 PM
I have a Ti G4 and the resolution is really very nice. It is really an unbeatable screen. Apple chose the 15.2 widescreen display to have a max resolution of 1152x768 so that the text and icons on the screen were not miniscule. I mean, can you work well without squinting on 1600x1200? Really, the display is very sharp. If you think that the onboard display is not enough for you, then you may always use an external monitor (the G4 has a VGA port which supports up to 21").

t^3
Jul 26, 2001, 05:04 PM
Another new iMac in September after only two months seems too short, and the 700MHz model would only exist for a month! But Apple has done it once after the introduction of the original iMac. It is possible that the new iMacs at MWNY were just a 'holdover' solution: something didn't make the LCD iMacs ready, and Jobs had to have an interim update. The 10.1 idea seems to make sense, because there were no DVD iMacs at MWNY. If there were, I would seriously doubt that we would see any change to the iMacs in September.

As for the iBooks, I doubt that there will be major changes. A minor speed boost, HD size and/or RAM increase is possible, but these would be small, if any. An update at MWSF '02 is more likely, because it would continue sales after the Christmas shopping season.

mortigitempo
Jul 26, 2001, 07:31 PM
also, there was no move to nvidia cards in the iMacs- at odds with Apple's general attitude, it seems. The nvidia card would require a new motherboard- the extra vram is to shore up sales for a little bit. The mods are nice for anyone buying one of these macs, but they're going to be culled soon enough.

PyroTurtle
Jul 27, 2001, 04:23 AM
actually, i've found 1024x768 a nice resolution. i've been using photoshop and illustrator and golive for a very long time, and i've used most resolutions at some time or another. 1024 is basicly what i keep comming back to, esp for GoLive. the majority of people have their monitors at 1024 as it. and i've seen the think pad, looks ok, but it's a little flimsy and doesn't always work for games...summoner looks very very bad on it...

JereIC
Jul 27, 2001, 12:30 PM
I can't imagine Apple refreshing the iMac line after only two months, no matter how convincing the update. The only other times Apple does that are silent updates; for example, the iMac rev. B, released shortly after the first iMac, was very silent and secretive, and Apple deliberately tried to hide it. It was also really minor, just a change in the graphics card, not something major like a new monitor.

But still, rumors of an LCD iMac remain. This reminds me of the rumors of a 17" iMac shortly after the original iMac. A few months later, Apple announced a 17" monitor that had the iMac's bulbous design. My guess is that this "LCD iMac" isn't an iMac, but something totally different, possibly some kind of LCD all-in-one Mac, in the spirit of the late Cube. Or, it could be an iBook dock with an LCD monitor on the front. It could be a hydrogen fuel cell, to replace the TiBook battery. Maybe it's a mirror with voice recognition. Perhaps a portable Playstaion 2. With Airport. Whatever. It's not an iMac. But it probably does require Mac OS 10.1, which is why it wasn't announced at MWNY.

As for TiBooks: definately be updated in Sept, maybe even at Seybold, but definately by Paris. I was looking at getting a TiBook for school this year, but decided instead on a Quicksilver G4, becuase it was so much more convincing than the TiBook. I'm guessing the major changes will be a combo drive, NVIDIA2GO, and a speedbump. I'd love to see a Superdrive, at least in the high end, multiprocessing, at least as an option, and colors, although I'd personally stick with titanium.

Luckster
Jul 27, 2001, 03:25 PM
Owning a Ti Book, I can say that the speedbump, Combo drive, nVidea and colors are a possiblitiy (less likely for colors). However, there will not be a superdrive. This is based upon the A03 mechanism from Pioneer and requires a full height drive. As for multiprocessing, that certainly would be unprecedented in a laptop, but I think that the motherboard is alread saturated. They essentially squeezed as much as possible into that tiny case.
- Andrew

Mariner77
Jul 27, 2001, 04:25 PM
After musing over the entire Apple product line for a very LONG time, I have gradually come to the conclusion that the best computer for me is the new LCD iMac (I know I know, it's not out yet and I hope it doesn't look ugly)

There are many reasons behind this conclusion. One of the key benefits of the iMac/iBook/PB that's often overlooked, is their silence. Granted, iBook and PB both have fans but they so rarely come on that you can practically claim they are not there. Another obvious advantage is that, well, LCD displays don't have electrons shooting at you head every second. When you use the computer 8 hours a day, noise stress and eye strain really add up.

Now, both high end desktop and laptop are out of my selection because of price, that leaves the iBook competing with the iMac. Given the fact that the current iBook has about the same speed as a 350 MHz iMac and a tiny 12.1 inch LCD display, it just cannot be my primary computer. Yes, it's extremely portable and I know how nice that can be, but right now that's simply a luxury I can't afford.

Now look at the new LCD iMac. It has no fan, 14/15 inch LCD display, full size keyboard/comfortable mouse, 700+ MHz CPU, 40+ GB harddrive, and an awesome price of around $1300. Plus, it has style. It simply can't be beaten.

I sure do hope Apple releases the new LCD iMac soon.

Luckster
Jul 27, 2001, 05:54 PM
And my quad GHz G4 with DDR, Superdrive and G5 upgradeability is on the way too...

While Apple may decide in the future to release such a computer as an LCD consumer machine, the iMac's shape itself is a statement. If the iMac were simply flat, it would look like the IBM or Gateway all-in-one (which to my recollection is not a hot seller). It is not that the iMac's looks are its only selling feature, but the iMac really stands out. As for colors, I was never too crazy about them, but they seem to be cropping up everywhere from phones to a George Forman Grill – all in the same five Apple iMac colors. Call it coincidence if you like, but Apple is dependent upon comming up with a product people identify. People see it, they want it, they buy it. Then they look at the specifications. I have had Windows people want to buy a Ti Powerbook simply because of the design without knowing a thing about Apple or the performance.

One day you may see a consumer machine using an LCD screen, I grant you that it is comming, but I do not think that it is this soon. As for an LCD based iMac, I would file that under remote. If they release a new computer, it will be just that, a NEW computer, not a restyled iMac.

mortigitempo
Jul 27, 2001, 07:10 PM
the current iMac is surely just a stopgap measure- they couldn't release the tessera iMac (whether it is LCD or not) for whatever reason, probably the lateness of 10.1, so they updated a flagging product line with a token gesture.

Mariner77
Jul 27, 2001, 07:16 PM
Granted, the iMac is very much about style but it doesn't mean that if Apple uses LCD, it can't differenciate itself from the other players. If anything, LCD is easier to style with. The regular O' CRT is horror to most industrial designers, it's amazing that Apple made iMac look as sexy as it is. I believe they'll do an great job with the LCD as well (not as amazing as the original iMac but still pretty darn good).

Also, if you paid any attention to Steve Jobs recent interest in LCD displays you'll know that the man himself very much want an LCD display in the iMac. If HE wants to happen, there is no stopping it. In recent meetings with analysts he even went as far as "confirming" their existance and the eagerness to bring them to market. I think I'm not the one who's off about an LCD iMac in the near future, you are. Of course time will tell who's right.

Scab Cake
Jul 28, 2001, 11:53 AM
Don't know if any of you have seen this, but I have a connection with Apple's advertising company and this is what they're saving for September...

http://www.poop.com/pics/044.jpg

I guess this confirms that there's no new LCD iMac...

JereIC
Jul 28, 2001, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by Scab Cake:
---------------
http://www.poop.com/pics/044.jpg
--------------

LOL, I want it already!

Although, the new product is rumored to use injected molds in an odd way, so this may not be so far off...

Megaquad
Jul 28, 2001, 02:43 PM
whats wrong with you guys? that is an photoshoped *rev.A* iMac,nothing more

MrMacMan
Jul 28, 2001, 04:07 PM
Halt before you go any futher. LCD are still to expensive to be made into a imac. I'm sorry apple has alot in to design but I don't think it for this.

MattB
Jul 28, 2001, 06:16 PM
If a top-of-the-line iBook only costs $1700, Apple could surely price an LCD iMac or whatever Apple chooses to call it comparabily to that.

Think about it.

If Apple spends the money that it would save by not having to use miniature components like those in the iBook and invest it in bigger 15" LCD moniters, there's your LCD iMac for $1700!

An LCD iMac will not cost as much as everyone thinks! Besides even if the model topped out at $2000, I bet Apple would have people standing in line.

People spend thousands on PowerMacs rigth now and they don't even include a moniter. Yes I know that people spend that becuase it has the G4, but there are people that buy PowerMacs becuase they think that the iMac's screen is too small and I bet those users would pay for the LCD.

MrMacMan
Jul 29, 2001, 09:19 AM
U are wrong. If apple just put a Lcd screen into the imac for that little $$$, people would buy the imac for the screen and scrap the rest of it. We would all Love the macheine, but the cost... You said $1700, it would be higher cause of the new design. The education system wouldn't buy them cause of cost and maybe security problems.

MattB
Jul 29, 2001, 04:52 PM
I think Apple learned their lesson with the Cube and won't overprice anything that much again. We all know Apple has one of the highest profit margins in the industry, perhaps it's time to cut back.

Also, Gateway sells an all-in-one LCD all day long for $1800 surely the LCD iMac could be priced competitively.

Xistor
Jul 29, 2001, 05:00 PM
Can someone tell me the difference between an LCD iMac and an iBook? Realisticly, now.. if you want an LCD iMac, buy the cheapest iBook, with an Apple Pro keyboard and an Apple Pro optical mouse, and there you go!!!!

The iMac hasn't got anything over the iBook in any sense except better speakers. I think to slim it down that much makes it very close to portable.. and with the added cost of an LCD versus saving a couple hundred bucks for a desktop brick.. why not just buy the portable? I think it will cause them problems with product differentiation..

The current low end LCD is $599... probably that's a low-profit item for Apple as well considering that they would rather dump their low end screen for near cost and have people be able to afford buying their low end Power Mac, than to force them to buy an iMac. iMac was the savior of Apple, but it's not necessarily the future of Apple. I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to scrap the iMac within a couple of years for a lower cost, more expandable G3 or G4 short tower with the next drop in LCD prices.

Really, my feeling is that laptops are so good now, and the screens are of such high quality now (at least on the Apple ones), it is dramaticly decreasing the need for a clunky desktop.. I mean, the iMac isn't expandable anyways, and its too damn bulky and heavy to be considered truly portable.. more like a luggable. lol.. I predict moving it towards LCD *might* be a step towards its extinction as people wake up and realize laptops are excellent replacements for desktop for many low to medium end users in the modern computer era. Power users wouldn't buy an iMac anyways.. so, how do you differentiate the product line?

PyroTurtle
Jul 29, 2001, 10:44 PM
alrighty...

i have a Rev A iMac. and i'd love an LCD display...but...there is some things that laptops still can't do, and that's be a server, and be upgraded easily. now i know that the Rev E-new aren't very expandable, but i now have a G4 iMac with a VooDoo 2x in it and 80 Gigs of HD and 512 MB RAM. let me tell you, it cooks.
so what does this have to do with anything? just this....

(RevA Expandability) + LCD + (all new and nifty stuff) = one kick butt little computer

besides, as it is CRT's are getting to be 2" thick with some new IBM (i think) equipment....

as a side note, remember that IBM now gets 1 GB into the size of a quarter....

john123
Jul 30, 2001, 01:49 PM
Laptops are a lot more expandable than they're being given credit for...for example, a TiBook can be taken up to a gig of RAM for $390 (or, if you just want 512 MB, that can be done for about $100) and IBM Travelstar HD's can replace whatever is built-in on your laptop ($145 for a 20 GB internal, and less if you can find a buyer for your built-in drive).

If you want your laptop to be a "server," then simply leave it on your desk....planning to lug your computer around isn't a prerequisite to buying a laptop.

About the only place you get shorted on with laptops is video and graphics. Most people don't use their PCI slots anyway -- and iMac users don't *get* PCI slots to begin with....so what's wrong with buying an iBook? If your grievance is the 12.1" screen, then go ahead and buy an external (third party) LCD...you could get the laptop and the LCD all for the $1700 price point mentioned earlier -- and you'd be able to take your computer on the go if and when you so choose...go figure.

MrMacMan
Jul 30, 2001, 08:29 PM
Right I think not apple would of released the imac's during MWNY cause it has more people. And when did the imac's first come out? Apple would of had a special thing going if they did a LCD imac. Still apple has spent alot on the designing of a new........

MattB
Jul 31, 2001, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by MrMacman
Right I think not apple would of released the imac's during MWNY cause it has more people.

When were the iBooks released?!?! Weren't they released before MWNY?!?!

MrMacMan
Jul 31, 2001, 05:44 PM
...then a ibook. imac's were the Turning point of apple I think.

mischief
Aug 1, 2001, 11:12 AM
what happened to Paris?

I don't think it would be wise to put OS X on the Imac.
It's very powerful but WAY too geeky for joe-user. All the average guy cares about is: Does it work (all senses) and : Can I use it Drunk, Stoned and Stupid?

I think Steve's push for One OS may turn into a permanent Classic veneer on the Imac/Ibook to avoid frustrating or alienating those who HATE having to hunt around to tweak stuff.

menoinjun
Aug 1, 2001, 11:47 AM
no one is going to buy an iBook to use as a permanent desktop computer or server because the motherboard throughput just isn't fast enough. Don't forget that the bus speed is 66mhz v. 100mhz on the new iMacs, and probably 133 or 166 on the LCD ones. (whenever they may come) There is a definet advantage to buying a desktop computer over a laptop. The cost/technology ratio will ALWAYS be much better.

-Pete

john123
Aug 1, 2001, 12:23 PM
As for the bus speed, sure it's a speed issue but it isn't THE most important issue in the world. The truth of the matter (gasp) is that contrary to what we may think, 90% of us don't really need the newest and the fastest machine on the market. What a few weeks ago was top of the line at $3500 now ranks in as an entry-level model at about $1700 retail...bus speed is just one part of the speed equation, and if you are really feel the "need for speed" then you're going to go buy a top-of-the-line desktop anyway. But given the choice between a portable and a low-end desktop that is just some percentage points faster than that portable, I'll take the former...

Pbookgeek
Aug 1, 2001, 03:17 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by envirium
[B]Hi Everybody..
Im currently a windows user with a IBM A22p Laptop and very interested in getting a powerbook. I was wondering if apple is trying to make there powerbook tailored to the professional market, do anyone think they are going to upgrade the resolution of the powerbook in the "onyx" version?... The Powerbook is running at a resolution of 1128x768 which is really really crappy for running any professional level software like dreamweaver and photoshop which I use everyday. That is why I chose the ThinkPad. I really want a powerbook but the resolution is horrible. Any Ideas?. Both laptops has a 15 inch LCD.
____________________________________

IBM A22p 15 itīs a nice laptop and of all wintel laptopmakers my favorite vendor. But if you use the machine for webpublishing itīs usually easier to work in resolutions below 1600 x 1200. At my work where 18 programmers do webpublishing i donīt know anyone that work with that resulution when making webpages!
- but if you absolutely want to have that kind of resulotion when you work, you simply add an good 19" monitor to it.

/be well citicen

ThlayliTheFierce
Aug 1, 2001, 04:57 PM
Here's a thought I think people have overlooked: lcd screens aside, why do laptops cost more than desktops? Because they have more expensive components! It costs more money to produce mobile processors, ram, hd's, and mobos. If Apple can make an iBook for $1300, they could certainly match or possibly beat that price in an lcd iMac, because the components would cost less. Also, don't forget that schools get discounts when buying these things, so you can't take the full retail price into account.

MattB
Aug 1, 2001, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by ThlayliTheFierce
Here's a thought I think people have overlooked: lcd screens aside, why do laptops cost more than desktops? Because they have more expensive components! It costs more money to produce mobile processors, ram, hd's, and mobos. If Apple can make an iBook for $1300, they could certainly match or possibly beat that price in an lcd iMac, because the components would cost less. Also, don't forget that schools get discounts when buying these things, so you can't take the full retail price into account.

Finally! Someone who gets the math. I mentioned this in a previous post and no one seemed to catch on!

MrMacMan
Aug 1, 2001, 08:24 PM
The cost part is true and does the ibook have the capibality to hook up to a Lcd. (maybe it's the Radition going to my head or that it's not late and I haven't slept in 2 day since I sent the e-mail to macrumors about something. And if you look at this Check ur e-mail.) The price of the extra or bigger Hard drive the Dvd or Cd-Rw, the extra ports that you need. The imac is a better choice than a ibook.

john123
Aug 1, 2001, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by MrMacman
The cost part is true and does the ibook have the capibality to hook up to a Lcd. (maybe it's the Radition going to my head or that it's not late and I haven't slept in 2 day since I sent the e-mail to macrumors about something. And if you look at this Check ur e-mail.) The price of the extra or bigger Hard drive the Dvd or Cd-Rw, the extra ports that you need. The imac is a better choice than a ibook.

Yeah you can hook an LCD up to an iBook. The iMac only has one more port than the iBook -- a FireWire port (that you don't need anyway). And the HD size differences can be remedied by simply swapping your internal iBook HD with an inexpensive third party drive. Once again, all of the benefits of that desktop -- plus the portability as a minimum of cost (if you shop around).

MrMacMan
Aug 2, 2001, 06:59 PM
The imac is a All around Computer the ibook is for portability. The ibook's Keyboard is small, and there are many other problems too.
To get off this subject and switch to the origanal
Has anybody heard new news on the Lcd imac's ?

DarkNovaMatter
Aug 3, 2001, 05:24 AM
Ok, I would like to know where this LCD screen is that can be hooked to the iBook. Ok, the lcd iMac would be very cheap because of it non-restrictions of a portable. Portables are more expensive because...A-They have smaller technology in them, so you need peeps to develope the current tech into smaller sizes.B- they have to use less power because hey if its truely portable then u need a portable power source to it (and I don't think they make portable fusion generators). Another is (like the cube) the need for a processor that doessn't give off as much heat, this is because of having certain other components (like the battery acid, that is combutable at high temps) and I don't think peepswant to handle a comp that would elevate their pantleg to flood-relief wet. An Lcd iMac would cost less because it doesn't have to worry about these things. Portable puts a bundle onto a comp by all the things it has to do, by having to by something other or directly by the portability. One that I will directly point at John123 is that YES, once again YES, people do use Firewire. The point is cameras all work on this,its great to use for transmission to other comps, its like a higher speed/higher bandwidth USB (we all know what you can have in USB) and also the removable HD buisness, the transfer rate for Firewire is great compared to USB. the lcd iMacs will more than likely be soon (around january's show), and there is a good reason. Simpley OSX would be greatly introduced with the one mac that was a very top seller. and the plastic injsection should allow for some very good things(hint- dalmation and flower power, just not those designs)

MrMacMan
Aug 3, 2001, 08:01 AM
The imac has all the things that he said and more. The ibook is a little skimpy.

MattB
Aug 3, 2001, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by MrMacman
Has anybody heard new news on the Lcd imac's?

Yes! I read that Hitachi, Apple's providor of short neck CRTs, will suspend production of CRTs indefinetly in December. Instead, they will switch to producing LCDs. Here's the Article from MacOSRumors.com (http://www.macosrumors.com):

"In the wake of a confusing Macworld last month, many questions remain about the most-hoped-for product of the show - a new iMac that breaks the mold of its predecessors and offers up the kind of dramatic advance that the original iMac and later the Cube both brought about. We don't have any major new information for you yet, but we do have some interesting tidbits from readers:

The Register has brought to light the fact that Hitachi (Apple's supplier of short neck CRT displays for iMac's) announced they will cease to make CRT displays by the end of 2001. According to the article Hitachi doesn't even plan to out-source production anymore - instead focusing on LCD production.

Perhaps - like it or not - CRT based iMac's will go extinct by the end of year (if Apple's doesn't license another company to make short neck CRT displays which would more than likely require a minor case redesign to accommodate them). It would seem - even if Apple has made special arrangements for continued production of it's iMac displays - that the current iMac design will have outlasted it's technology.

From what we're hearing, Hitachi's decision does indeed play into Apple's move toward a new-form-factor iMac with a flat panel display. Apple has virtually all of the short-neck iMac 15-inch CRTs (the only CRT it continues to utilize!) it will need for the remainder of the lifetime of the current iMac family already in its warehouses, and should be able to get more than enough before Hitachi shuts down production completely. Once that supply runs out, the new-form iMac should hit the streets - pointing to sometime near the end of the year. Late September has widely been discussed as a possible timeframe for the new iMac, but we're skeptical of that - November (as-yet unannounced Apple Event) or January (Macworld San Francisco) seem the likeliest announcement venues at present."

john123
Aug 3, 2001, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by DarkNovaMatter
Ok, I would like to know where this LCD screen is that can be hooked to the iBook.....One that I will directly point at John123 is that YES, once again YES, people do use Firewire. The point is cameras all work on this,its great to use for transmission to other comps, its like a higher speed/higher bandwidth USB (we all know what you can have in USB) and also the removable HD buisness, the transfer rate for Firewire is great compared to USB.

You can hook any LCD screen up to an iBook. The new iBook models introduced this year finally support external monitors, so you can hook a monitor -- 17" or 21" or whatever, LCD or CRT or whatever -- to the iBook, just as you could with the PowerBook G4 or Pismo.

As for the FireWire....I wasn't saying that people don't use it!!! I was saying that the iBook comes with just one FireWire port whereas the iMac comes with two...however, you really only need the one FireWire port. For most devices, you can just daisy chain them, just as you used to do with SCSI devices, only with higher bandwidth with FireWire. People who really do need two FireWire ports usually need them for reasons for *power*, in which case it's smart to buy a powered hub anyway.

As for the *keyboard*....isn't that nit-picking just a little bit??!?! Anyway, if you find the keyboard objectionable, hook up your own. All I'm saying is that you can turn your little iBook into a full-fledged desktop machine if you want to, and if you weren't looking at the tiny case, you'd never know the difference. That is precisely what I did with my Pismo when I bought it -- it was a desktop machine when I was at my desk, but when I needed to be on the go, it could accomodate those needs, too. There was once a time when people really couldn't do all their work on a laptop. Those days have passed.

[Edited by john123 on 08-03-2001 at 06:02 PM]

MrMacMan
Aug 4, 2001, 10:07 AM
If only we hade a pict. Oh wait I'm Steve, Silly me. I'll be back with the pict in a Sec.

DarkNovaMatter
Aug 6, 2001, 09:20 PM
ok, is there some usb or other type of connection to a screen that i don't know about? I know it can't be apple, thats an obvios. So how are u going to connect this? VGA, hmmmm i would like to find one of those. Also and LCD imac would cost lower. Soon when apple revises them will more than likely be introduced with the imacs, thus the iBooks will be back up in price. Most peeps are really wanting a bigger keyboard. And most peeps that use Firewire do use more than one port. Hinting transferable Firewire drives ans also their cameras. The general of more bang for your buck does apply. people who will be mostly looking into the iMac/iBook are first buyers. What do first buyers look for? lower price, and most don't need a portable. Most look for the lower price and more power, and that will soon be the lcd imacs.

john123
Aug 7, 2001, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by DarkNovaMatter
ok, is there some usb or other type of connection to a screen that i don't know about? I know it can't be apple, thats an obvios. So how are u going to connect this? VGA, hmmmm i would like to find one of those. Also and LCD imac would cost lower. Soon when apple revises them will more than likely be introduced with the imacs, thus the iBooks will be back up in price. Most peeps are really wanting a bigger keyboard. And most peeps that use Firewire do use more than one port. Hinting transferable Firewire drives ans also their cameras. The general of more bang for your buck does apply. people who will be mostly looking into the iMac/iBook are first buyers. What do first buyers look for? lower price, and most don't need a portable. Most look for the lower price and more power, and that will soon be the lcd imacs.

As for the VGA: it is *built into* the new iBooks. A brand new port on the 2001 models. Read about it at http://www.apple.com/ibook. As if that weren't enough, the iBook *also* sports an AV port so you can also put your screen on your TV. Good stuff, all standard on all the iBook models.

As for the keyboard: if you really long for a bigger keyboard, simply buy one and put it on your desk. You aren't going to ever get a bigger keyboard on your laptop anyway for obvious reasons.

As for Firewire ports: a few arguments. 1) Even the TiBook has just one port. 2) FireWire devices, by and large, are daisychainable. If you buy a burner, it's got 2 ports on it. If you buy a harddrive, it's got 2 ports on it. If your camera doesn't, then it can go at the end of the chain (and it doesn't require termination like SCSI did). And if you *are* chaining 3 or more devices together, you need to buy a powered hub anyway, even with FireWire.

As for bang for buck: for now, that LCD iMac is simply rumor, obviously. If you shop around, you can get a new iBook for $1200. An iMac, entry level, will run you $1000. A couple hundred bucks gets you portability, with the only practical loss between the two being the loss of the CD-RW drive (which can, of course, be purchased externally for sub-$200). That's pretty attractive to a lot of consumers -- maybe not as a "family computer," but for someone really interested in a personal computer for their own use, it's hard to beat.

MrMacMan
Aug 7, 2001, 09:18 AM
I gotta disagree, man You use a laptop for the ability to move with it. The Desktops are great for what people use them for.

john123
Aug 7, 2001, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by MrMacman
I gotta disagree, man You use a laptop for the ability to move with it. The Desktops are great for what people use them for.

OK, this is getting more than a little old, so I'll leave it at this:
Just because you *CAN* use a laptop for portability doesn't mean you *HAVE* to. Novel concept, I realize. The point is that if your iBook has everything your iMac does or can be *configured* to have everything your iMac does, for a modicum of additional cost, the laptop makes more sense all the way around...you always have the potential benefit of portability at your disposal.

It's really simple, guys...maybe what I am just detecting is some regret at having shelled out $1000 for an iMac when just a tad more might have bought you an iBook. ;-)

MattB
Aug 7, 2001, 04:12 PM
Yes, an iBook might make more sense than an iMac becuase of it's portability and it's ability to be configured the same as an iMac, but some people just prefer desktops.

Some users prefer to use a full size keyboard with a full size 10-key and others prefer using a mouse to a trackpad. Yes, you are correct all of these can be connected to an iBook, but there's just something about placing a laptop on a desk and having to connect peripherals to it in order to make it seem like a desktop, but a desktop it will never be.

If I had to use a laptop as my primary computer, I'd go insane. Have you ever tried to type a term paper on a undersized laptop keyboard; or had to edit a spreadsheet using a trackpad? It's murder!

Some people just prefer desktops, plain and simple.

MrMacMan
Aug 7, 2001, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by MattB
Yes, an iBook might make more sense than an iMac becuase of it's portability and it's ability to be configured the same as an iMac, but some people just prefer desktops.

Some users prefer to use a full size keyboard with a full size 10-key and others prefer using a mouse to a trackpad. Yes, you are correct all of these can be connected to an iBook, but there's just something about placing a laptop on a desk and having to connect peripherals to it in order to make it seem like a desktop, but a desktop it will never be.

If I had to use a laptop as my primary computer, I'd go insane. Have you ever tried to type a term paper on a undersized laptop keyboard; or had to edit a spreadsheet using a trackpad? It's murder!

Some people just prefer desktops, plain and simple.
I like my USB and all the Stuff at my desk the Power right here in my room. Now Imagine this me Dragin my
Macally USB Port
My new Macally Optical mouse
My Espon color 740i printer
A normal Keyboard
My Crappy Scanner
MY Digatal Camera,
and the flash card USB port thingy
And my normal Stuff that I have on my desk
You give me a Normal Suit Case that fits my Stuff in it.

john123
Aug 7, 2001, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by MrMacman

I like my USB and all the Stuff at my desk the Power right here in my room. Now Imagine this me Dragin my
Macally USB Port
My new Macally Optical mouse
My Espon color 740i printer
A normal Keyboard
My Crappy Scanner
MY Digatal Camera,
and the flash card USB port thingy
And my normal Stuff that I have on my desk
You give me a Normal Suit Case that fits my Stuff in it.

That isn't really the point...you can very easily take your mouse and camera with you on your weekend trips, and then come back and put it all together. It's extra flexibility, pure and simple. Again, just because you have a laptop doesn't mean that somehow you *have* to always use it on-the-go....

MrMacMan
Aug 8, 2001, 05:29 PM
On a Desk perhaps? I like my mouse and my keyboard and everything attached to it. Like that my mouse lights up (u know the hockey puck mouse trick? I did that to my opical mouse!) I wouldn't scariface my hardware for portability!