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MACDRIVE
Jul 4, 2006, 10:45 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/4022307.html

NEW YORK - Along the tree-lined streets of a Brooklyn neighborhood, the American flag waves proudly from porches and cars, even from the back of a 3-year-old's tricycle.

So when residents in Marine Park awoke last month to discover the "Stars and Stripes" had been torched outside eight homes — including one where a firefighter killed in the 2001 terrorist attacks grew up — they raised new and bigger flags.


"We don't want these cowards to win," said Regina Coyle, whose son James died at the World Trade Center. "People are angry and hurt. We're fighting back."

The American flag outside the Coyles' home was burned down to the scorched white flagpole fastened to the front of their red-brick house, where Coyle and her husband, a state court officer, raised James and two siblings. It had flown outside the home every day since the death of her son, a 26-year-old firefighter.

Coyle recalled the shock of discovering a pile of ashes flecked with red, white and blue nylon on her front stoop as she left to walk her dog on the morning of June 22.

"I lost my son, how could someone do this to us?" she wondered. On Sept. 11, her son jumped into a taxi with two other firefighters and headed to Ground Zero.


Marine Park, known for its patriotic fervor, is a blue-collar community of firefighters, police officers and transit workers. Scores of their relatives and friends were lost in the attack.

The corners of six streets are named for fallen comrades; the Coyles' corner is named for their son. A pair of fire hydrants are striped with red, white and blue paint. It's a close-knit neighborhood where block parties and garage sales are common, where World War II veterans sit on porches as kids ride past on bicycles.

"For someone to burn the flag was like a smack in the face," said Barbara Davis, a 45-year-old mother of three whose flag was set ablaze. "We were always taught to have such reverence for the flag."

Her 6-year-old son, Benjamin, begged his father not to hang another flag for fear of a repeat attack.

"My husband said: 'No son, we have to stand up for our flag,' " Davis said.



Many families in Marine Park supported the constitutional amendment to ban flag desecration that died in the Senate last week by a single vote. The proposal was drafted in response to Supreme Court rulings in 1989 and 1990 that protected flag burning as free speech.

"The American flag ... represents honor and respect, our values and the people. America is you and me," Coyle said.


"They can smash pumpkins, steal your flowers, but burn the flag?" Coyle said. "They should be ashamed."



iGary
Jul 4, 2006, 10:48 AM
Burning flags as a political statement and vandalism of private property are two different things. ;)

eva01
Jul 4, 2006, 11:08 AM
Maybe I should have my own good ol flag burning today the 4th of July in America's Hometown.

Now wouldn't that be fun

iGary
Jul 4, 2006, 11:10 AM
Now wouldn't that be fun

If the locals didn't hang you, maybe. :)

Thomas Veil
Jul 4, 2006, 11:31 AM
Burning the flag can be a political statement. But in this case it seems to be a statement of pure ignorance.

I still wouldn't ban flag-burning. The worst thing you do is acknowledge these creeps in any way. Better to ignore 'em and let their execrable act speak for itself.

iGary
Jul 4, 2006, 11:41 AM
Burning the flag can be a political statement. But in this case it seems to be a statement of pure ignorance.

I still wouldn't ban flag-burning. The worst thing you do is acknowledge these creeps in any way. Better to ignore 'em and let their execrable act speak for itself.

There is already a law against vandalism and trespassing, so this act is covered already.

ahunter3
Jul 4, 2006, 11:43 AM
I've got one set aside to burn in public in the event that Congress ever passes an amendment against doing so.

it5five
Jul 4, 2006, 12:38 PM
I've got one set aside to burn in public in the event that Congress ever passes an amendment against doing so.

As do I. I'm sure if Congress passes this amendment eventually we will see a huge increase in flag burning in this country.

atszyman
Jul 4, 2006, 12:54 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/4022307.html

Does anyone really think that this would have happened if there hadn't been the high profile amendment in Congress recently? If Congress had not issued the Amendment and it had not been in the press I doubt that the act would have even passed by the minds of the vandals. In effect this becomes a self-fulfilling legislation with the publicity around it giving some delinquents the idea to burn the flag, and thus providing the epidemic we need a law for.

mactastic
Jul 4, 2006, 01:05 PM
Burning flags as a political statement and vandalism of private property are two different things. ;)
Amen.

These are cowards who burn other people's flags in secret, not protesters.

But I'm sure there will be elements on the right who will make no distinction between the two...

Ugg
Jul 4, 2006, 01:24 PM
Amen.

These are cowards who burn other people's flags in secret, not protesters.

But I'm sure there will be elements on the right who will make no distinction between the two...


Who's to say that it isn't someone on the right torching the flags simply to inflame the issue further? It seems to be a blue collar kind of neighborhood and I can't imagine a bunch of radicals hanging out there. Of course, it could also simply be bored suburban kids looking for something to do. Until those who committed the crime are caught, it seems sort of silly to declare them leftist radicals....

ahunter3
Jul 4, 2006, 01:59 PM
It could even be semi-ignorant suburbanites with a bunch of old, worn-out frayed flags.

What do you do with flags when they are too worn to display (it's disrespectful to display a worn-out American flag)? You burn them (http://www.esquilax.com/flag/).

The preferred method is in a cardboard tube or other vessel so that you don't see the flag itself in mid-conflagration.

eva01
Jul 4, 2006, 02:00 PM
If the locals didn't hang you, maybe. :)

Which they probably would :/

iGary
Jul 4, 2006, 02:00 PM
It could even be semi-ignorant suburbanites with a bunch of old, worn-out frayed flags.

What do you do with flags when they are too worn to display (it's disrespectful to display a worn-out American flag)? You burn them (http://www.esquilax.com/flag/).

The preferred method is in a cardboard tube or other vessel so that you don't see the flag itself in mid-conflagration.

What's your point?

solvs
Jul 4, 2006, 10:12 PM
I would have never burned the flag before. Especially someone else's flag. That's just stupid. This is all about vandalism. If you're going to burn a flag, burn your own. But if you're going to burn someone else's, you should be prosecuted for vandalism and arson, not being unpatriotic. Hopefully, if they catch them, they treat it as such.

I just hope this doesn't turn into a First Amendment issue because it isn't.

leekohler
Jul 4, 2006, 11:16 PM
Amen.

These are cowards who burn other people's flags in secret, not protesters.

But I'm sure there will be elements on the right who will make no distinction between the two...

Bingo- thinking is tough for people on the right. ;)

Thomas Veil
Jul 5, 2006, 01:22 PM
Anyone seen Doonesbury lately?

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/uc/20060702/ldb060703.gif

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/uc/20060703/ldb060704.gif

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/uc/20060704/ldb060705.gif

hulugu
Jul 5, 2006, 07:12 PM
Well this should feed the FoxNews propaganda machine, I think I can already hear this issue shudder to life; and of course, the difference between a random act of vandalism will be conflated with political speech and the distinctions will be ignored or brushed aside.

Oh joy.

solvs
Jul 6, 2006, 12:52 AM
Well this should feed the FoxNews propaganda machine
I doubt it. The flag burning thing was a nonissue from the getgo. Too few wanting to make it into an amendment, and far too many people saying go ahead and burn it.

Which is actually kinda sad if you think about it.

mactastic
Jul 6, 2006, 11:12 AM
Too few wanting to make it into an amendment...
Wasn't this the issue that failed in the Senate by a single vote? :confused:

solvs
Jul 6, 2006, 10:40 PM
Wasn't this the issue that failed in the Senate by a single vote? :confused:
I was talking about people (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-06-26-poll-results_x.htm) (scroll down), not politicians. ;)