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Zoboomafoo
Jul 5, 2006, 07:38 AM
mmm. cheap imac.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060705/sfw046.html?.v=66

rdowns
Jul 5, 2006, 07:39 AM
Apple(R) today introduced a new $899 configuration of the 17-inch iMac(R) designed specifically for education customers featuring a 1.83 GHz Intel Core Duo processor, a built-in iSight(TM) video camera and iLife(R) '06, the next generation of Apple's award-winning suite of digital lifestyle applications. The 17-inch iMac for education is available immediately and will replace the eMac(R), Apple's last CRT based computer, providing students and teachers everything they need to learn and create in today's digital classroom, all in the ultra-efficient iMac design.

The ultimate in design simplicity, the iMac is ideal for the space saving needs of both the classroom and the dorm room with the entire computer built right into a two-inch thin display. The iMac design has continuously improved generation after generation, resulting in increased material efficiency, decreased packaging mass and volume, and decreased energy consumption -- all of which lead to a smaller environmental footprint.

Featuring a 17-inch widescreen LCD display, the iMac for education includes a Combo drive for burning CDs and reading DVDs, 512MB of 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM memory expandable up to 2GB and hard drive storage capacity up to 160GB. Every iMac also includes a built-in iSight video camera for video conferencing out-of-the-box using Apple's award-winning iChat AV, or recording a video podcast or iMovie(R) using iLife '06. Providing the latest in high-performance connectivity options, the 17-inch iMac for education includes built-in 10/100/1000 BASE-T Gigabit Ethernet for high-speed networking, built-in AirPort(R) Extreme 802.11g WiFi for up to 54 Mbps fast wireless networking*, a total of five USB ports (three USB 2.0) and two FireWire(R) 400 ports.

iGary
Jul 5, 2006, 07:41 AM
*integrated graphics*

Let the whine fest begin.

apunkrockmonk
Jul 5, 2006, 07:45 AM
Whats the difference between this and the regular 17"? Combo drive and maybe the video card?

Collin973
Jul 5, 2006, 08:00 AM
Well, this is the education model. It's not suppose to be some magnificent gaming/program intensive machine. It's meant for light to moderate use (word processing, internet access, calculations, maybe some programming). I think this machine is more for schools than a student-owned model. It's just a cheaper version of the iMac, so that its more affordable for education facilities to purchase.

Sam*
Jul 5, 2006, 08:12 AM
So Basically a desktop version of the macbook

Macmaniac
Jul 5, 2006, 08:15 AM
Why has this not hit page 1 yet?

Its the eMac reborn:D

bigandy
Jul 5, 2006, 08:16 AM
This is a fantastic thing - my uni were thinking of moving back to PCs in the computing department for the maths machines (mathmatica etc) but with this price they'll not be doing so :)

Only thing is, it's not appeared in the UK Edu store yet :(

Zoboomafoo
Jul 5, 2006, 08:17 AM
Why has this not hit page 1 yet?

Its the eMac reborn:D

i don't know, but i feel special for pointing this out. lol. mmm. street kred.

Queso
Jul 5, 2006, 08:23 AM
Weren't a lot of edu places staying away from iMacs because of the form factor? You do know they can fall over in earthquakes don't you? ;) :rolleyes:

nightelf
Jul 5, 2006, 08:24 AM
Whats the difference between this and the regular 17"? Combo drive and maybe the video card?


Smaller Hard Drive - 80GB vs 160GB
No Bluetooth
No Apple Remote
Combo Drive
Integrated Video Card

Macmaniac
Jul 5, 2006, 08:25 AM
Here are the specs for the lazy:
17-inch widescreen LCD
1440x900 resolution
1.83GHz Intel Core Duo processor (1)
512MB memory (2x256MB SO-DIMMs)
80GB Serial ATA hard drive
24x Combo drive (DVD-ROM, CD-RW)
Intel GMA 950 graphics with 64MB of shared memory
$899
Not bad, and its available to college students who want an iMac for cheap.
This looks like a much better deal then the Mac Mini!

MacRumors
Jul 5, 2006, 08:26 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple has quietly introduced an Education-Store-Only (http://store.apple.com/1-800-780-5009/WebObjects/EducationIndividual.woa/wo/StoreReentry.wo?family=iMac) model of the iMac to replace the removed eMac model.

The new low-end iMac sports a 1.83GHz Core Duo, 80GB hard drive, 24x Combo drive, and uses the GMA 950 shared memory video configuration found on the Mac mini and newly released MacBook. Bluetooth 2.0 and the Apple Remote are NOT included. Base price for the machine is set at $899 USD.

mark!
Jul 5, 2006, 08:27 AM
sweeet :)
all these people are gonna have a heart attack for the shared memory though

Eidorian
Jul 5, 2006, 08:28 AM
Well there goes the eMac rumors. Still, keeping the iSight still worries me a bit. I've still made the suggestion that future Apple purchases should be this new iMac model over a Mini + Dell LCD combo.

princealfie
Jul 5, 2006, 08:28 AM
where can we buy one of these? I can't seem to find one around the website! :eek:

generik
Jul 5, 2006, 08:29 AM
Hey this machine is actually pretty nice, just logged on to Apple's australian educational store and didn't see any sign of this model.

Is it available to individuals as well?

Yebot
Jul 5, 2006, 08:29 AM
Education-Store-Only

Sam*
Jul 5, 2006, 08:29 AM
where can we buy one of these? I can't seem to find one around the website! :eek:

Educational Store

Mudbug
Jul 5, 2006, 08:29 AM
not sure if that link will hold up to the edu store, so please report a post if it dies...

http://store.apple.com/1-800-780-5009/WebObjects/EducationIndividual.woa/wo/StoreReentry.wo?family=iMac

<edit> LINK DIED </edit>

technicolor
Jul 5, 2006, 08:30 AM
That's a nice little machine there.

amin
Jul 5, 2006, 08:30 AM
Hey this machine is actually pretty nice, just logged on to Apple's australian educational store and didn't see any sign of this model.

Is it available to individuals as well?

Yes, it's there in the US edu store. Maybe they haven't updated your page just yet.

thejadedmonkey
Jul 5, 2006, 08:30 AM
whoa....$300 difference for a DVD burner, 80gigs of space, Bluetooth, and an x1600? Isn't that a bit extreme?

Eidorian
Jul 5, 2006, 08:30 AM
Education-Store-OnlyDepartmental Education Store only.

whoa....$300 difference for a DVD burner, Bluetooth, and an x1600? Isn't that a bit extreme?$200 for education.

PlaceofDis
Jul 5, 2006, 08:31 AM
not sure if that link will hold up to the edu store, so please report a post if it dies...

http://store.apple.com/1-800-780-5009/WebObjects/EducationIndividual.woa/wo/StoreReentry.wo?family=iMac

already died. but this is good news for students and schools.

mark!
Jul 5, 2006, 08:31 AM
whoa....$300 difference for a DVD burner, Bluetooth, and an x1600? Isn't that a bit extreme?

I think it sounds about right.
Don't forget $30 for the remote...haha.

Stridder44
Jul 5, 2006, 08:32 AM
not sure if that link will hold up to the edu store, so please report a post if it dies...

http://store.apple.com/1-800-780-5009/WebObjects/EducationIndividual.woa/wo/StoreReentry.wo?family=iMac


It doesn't.

Nifty config tho. I'd rather pay the little extra and get the MacBook tho.

SpaceMagic
Jul 5, 2006, 08:33 AM
I love being a student :D

EDIT: Not on UK Edu Store :(

generik
Jul 5, 2006, 08:35 AM
whoa....$300 difference for a DVD burner, 80gigs of space, Bluetooth, and an x1600? Isn't that a bit extreme?

On hindsight that extra 200 bucks does give you a lot... :rolleyes:

LastLine
Jul 5, 2006, 08:36 AM
So the differences?

2 x256 ram sticks instead of a single 512mb.

80gb HDD instead of 160

Combo drive instead of superdrive

INtergrated graphics instead of dedicated

No Bluetooth, or Apple remote.

Mudbug
Jul 5, 2006, 08:36 AM
screen shot - since the links to the store will automatically die:

mark!
Jul 5, 2006, 08:37 AM
apple is the only computer company still using 256mb sticks.:rolleyes:

MacsRgr8
Jul 5, 2006, 08:38 AM
*integrated graphics*

Let the whine fest begin.

No no! No whining this time!

I think this is gr8 news. I whine about it when a family computer like a Mac mini gets the integrated graphics, end makes gaming no option as a result.

As for the educational Mac, I think cost reduction is the most important factor. Leaving out the SuperDrive, Front Row remote (ofcourse, it would have been stolen anyway...) and the X1600 card makes this Mac superb for schools.

Thumbs up on this!
:)

Eidorian
Jul 5, 2006, 08:41 AM
Hail Purdue (http://store.apple.com/AppleStore/WebObjects/HEDCustom?qprm=203451)?

thejadedmonkey
Jul 5, 2006, 08:41 AM
I quite agree! the one thing that worries me is, does this mean the G5 iMac enclosure is going to stay the same for some time longer now? Or do you think Apple will roll out a new enclosure with the updated iMacs (when ever that happens)

WillMak
Jul 5, 2006, 08:43 AM
I think this is a geat deal but something does worry me...If this is suppose to be for education, I just hope the schools that buy them remember to buy extra ram for Microsoft Office.

mark!
Jul 5, 2006, 08:44 AM
Hail Purdue (http://store.apple.com/AppleStore/WebObjects/HEDCustom?qprm=203451)?

ugh....IU (bloomington) isn't doing that :o

macdragonfl
Jul 5, 2006, 08:46 AM
Shame that it is sold only on ED site should sell for everyone! There are many who would buy at that price, and do not need the other features. My parents would buy and be very happy with the features and price. Hopefully it will be released for everyone soon!!!!!!

Eidorian
Jul 5, 2006, 08:47 AM
ugh....IU (bloomington) isn't doing that :o*shrug* You "know" things when you're staff.

mark!
Jul 5, 2006, 08:48 AM
maybe i should buy 10 and then sell them on ebay for $100 more each. :D :rolleyes: :eek: :)

joshwest
Jul 5, 2006, 08:49 AM
Im not sure if anyone else noticed but in the education store the iBook's are avaiable on the main page again.

http://store.apple.com/1-800-780-5009/WebObjects/EducationIndividual?type=higherEd&promo=StudentUnion&cid=EDU-AOSA10000008186

balamw
Jul 5, 2006, 08:49 AM
Hopefully it will be released for everyone soon!!!!!!
If it is, expect it to be $999 non-edu.

B

m-dogg
Jul 5, 2006, 08:51 AM
Looks like a great computer for the money to me.

(rest in peace eMac)

Zoboomafoo
Jul 5, 2006, 08:52 AM
ugh....IU (bloomington) isn't doing that :o

that's because IUB is janky.

I'd penalize IUB if I were apple for their "apple store."

They should just call it the ipod store.

ps. just how many IUB people are on this right now? lol.

mward333
Jul 5, 2006, 08:53 AM
Since your IU Bloomington Apple Store doesn't have it, then just click on the regular Apple Store for Education (instead of the customized IU version) after you choose the Bloomington campus. I just tried it, and it works great.

By the way, this works at all other universities too. Whenever a university has a customized Apple Store, they will also allow access to the regular Apple Store for Education instead.

imacintel
Jul 5, 2006, 08:54 AM
Can they sell this to the public rather than just edu??

I love the eMacs at my school.

ipacmm
Jul 5, 2006, 08:58 AM
Nice to see this lower end iMac, I like the iMac's a lot better over the eMac's and I think it was time to upgrade to all flat-panel computers and/or displays.

princealfie
Jul 5, 2006, 08:59 AM
cool but how do I procure one if I am not an educator or student?

iMeowbot
Jul 5, 2006, 09:02 AM
Shame that it is sold only on ED site should sell for everyone! There are many who would buy at that price, and do not need the other features. My parents would buy and be very happy with the features and price. Hopefully it will be released for everyone soon!!!!!!

So tell them (http://www.apple.com/contact/feedback.html) already :D Apple changed their minds on the eMac a few years ago when they learned that the general public wanted them.

xPismo
Jul 5, 2006, 09:04 AM
That's a nice little machine there.

Yes it is. I really would be interested in checking one out. $899 for a iMac formfactor seems really sweet to me. I must inspect more....... heh. :)

supremedesigner
Jul 5, 2006, 09:05 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple has quietly introduced an Education-Store-Only (http://store.apple.com/1-800-780-5009/WebObjects/EducationIndividual.woa/wo/StoreReentry.wo?family=iMac) model of the iMac to replace the removed eMac model.

The new low-end iMac sports a 1.83GHz Core Duo, 80GB hard drive, 24x Combo drive, and uses the GMA 950 shared memory video configuration found on the Mac mini and newly released MacBook. Bluetooth 2.0 and the Apple Remote are NOT included. Base price for the machine is set at $899 USD.

I'm a bit confused (this is off topic) and why is this macrumor admin post this late? :confused:

jholzner
Jul 5, 2006, 09:06 AM
Shame that it is sold only on ED site should sell for everyone! There are many who would buy at that price, and do not need the other features. My parents would buy and be very happy with the features and price. Hopefully it will be released for everyone soon!!!!!!

Just have your parents use the EDU store to buy it. They never verify if the person ordering is a student or not. Just pick a University close to where you live and place your order.

mark!
Jul 5, 2006, 09:06 AM
that's because IUB is janky.

I'd penalize IUB if I were apple for their "apple store."

They should just call it the ipod store.

ps. just how many IUB people are on this right now? lol.

IUB has the iMac smartface...just not the image that purdue is.

wtf @ your face.

mark!
Jul 5, 2006, 09:08 AM
Since your IU Bloomington Apple Store doesn't have it, then just click on the regular Apple Store for Education (instead of the customized IU version) after you choose the Bloomington campus. I just tried it, and it works great.

By the way, this works at all other universities too. Whenever a university has a customized Apple Store, they will also allow access to the regular Apple Store for Education instead.

i meant the graphic that purdue has. we dont have the 'new imac omg its only 899 now' picture. but we do have the imac. gosh gosh.

Agent69
Jul 5, 2006, 09:08 AM
apple is the only computer company still using 256mb sticks.:rolleyes:

That's not true. Order a Dell Dimension with 512MB of RAM and it comes with two 256MB sticks.

mark!
Jul 5, 2006, 09:10 AM
That's not true. Order a Dell Dimension with 512MB of RAM and it comes with two 256MB sticks.

did you see this face:

>>>>>>>:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: <<<<<<<

RichP
Jul 5, 2006, 09:12 AM
Very nice addition.

To the whiners: There is more too it than the stuff missing that makes it so cheap. It is certain that their profit margins are less on the edu iMac than the student-discount machines. (faculty also get a bigger discount on Apple stuff than students, even teachers)

kingtj
Jul 5, 2006, 09:13 AM
Actually, while this might be generally true, I wouldn't push my luck. Apple has some legal notes in the fine print when you place an edu. store order which, among other things, state that your claim of educational status is subject to future verification after the initial purchase. And further, if they do one of these "audits" and find you falsely claimed eduational status to obtain a discount, you're subject to being billed the difference in price between what you paid and the retail price for the item(s).

Just have your parents use the EDU store to buy it. They never verify if the person ordering is a student or not. Just pick a University close to where you live and place your order.

mark!
Jul 5, 2006, 09:14 AM
Very nice addition.

To the whiners: There is more too it than the stuff missing that makes it so cheap. It is certain that their profit margins are less on the edu iMac than the student-discount machines. (faculty also get a bigger discount on Apple stuff than students, even teachers)

My dad doesn't get better discounts than students & he's in faculty...?

ahuman7341
Jul 5, 2006, 09:15 AM
My dad doesn't get better discounts than students & he's in faculty...?
I belive he speaks of the facilty who robs the apple store.

AvSRoCkCO1067
Jul 5, 2006, 09:17 AM
apple is the only computer company still using 256mb sticks.:rolleyes:

Haha...no :(

Dell still sells some base configuration models with only 256 MB of ram. Plus, if the school wasn't planning on upgrading to 1 GB anyway, 2x256 MB sticks are better than 1x512 MB stick, as you're supposed to use paired ram anyway...

EDIT: someone already pointed this out...don't tell me you were being sarcastic in the first place, though...:rolleyes:

Core Trio
Jul 5, 2006, 09:20 AM
This really makes the mini seem a bit over priced.

at edu prices, the high end mini is $779, and for $899 you get the iMac with a monitor, iSight, keyboard and mouse. Does anyone else see anything wrong with this picture??

AvSRoCkCO1067
Jul 5, 2006, 09:23 AM
This really makes the mini seem a bit over priced.

at edu prices, the high end mini is $779, and for $899 you get the iMac with a monitor, iSight, keyboard and mouse. Does anyone else see anything wrong with this picture??

There's no question that Apple's going to have to change something with the Mini (whether it be features or price) in the coming months (prior to Christmas), as it is an awful deal when looked at comparitively.

Both the Mini and the edu-iMac have similar ram and graphics capability...and at least the mini comes with a remote...but the monitor on the iMac is gorgeous, and worth about 200+ in my mind...

Does anyone else think that this low-low price has anything to do with the recent Intel reductions in its prices???

QCassidy352
Jul 5, 2006, 09:23 AM
mmm... these are nice, but I was expecting/hoping for a new imac soonish. Like, after conroe comes out on July 24. :cool: I just hope this doesn't mean that this form factor and the current yonah configurations are going to be around for a good while longer.

Zoboomafoo
Jul 5, 2006, 09:24 AM
IUB has the iMac smartface...just not the image that purdue is.

wtf @ your face.

eh?

I'm just talking about the physical apple store in the union. The only thing you can walk in and buy there is an ipod. Everything else you have to order.

I'm just making fun of the hole-in-the-wallness of the store.

(granted, it's quite possible that most colleges are like this. but i want my instant gratification.)

Core Trio
Jul 5, 2006, 09:24 AM
Im not sure if anyone else noticed but in the education store the iBook's are avaiable on the main page again.

http://store.apple.com/1-800-780-5009/WebObjects/EducationIndividual?type=higherEd&promo=StudentUnion&cid=EDU-AOSA10000008186


When i go to the Edu store the iBooks are still under "PowerPC Macs" with the G5's

Katharine
Jul 5, 2006, 09:24 AM
I have some question:
1.Does the free nano apply to these?
2. Can an Apple Remote work on these if you already have one or does it use bluetooth?
3. What difference does the 2 256 chips make vs. 1 512.

Thanks!

AvSRoCkCO1067
Jul 5, 2006, 09:25 AM
When i go to the Edu store the iBooks are still under "PowerPC Macs" with the G5's

The iBooks are PowerPC Macs...the MacBooks are Intel Macs...

Stridder44
Jul 5, 2006, 09:25 AM
This really makes the mini seem a bit over priced.

at edu prices, the high end mini is $779, and for $899 you get the iMac with a monitor, iSight, keyboard and mouse. Does anyone else see anything wrong with this picture??

Yet people will buy them.

And you wonder how Apple makes money....

AvSRoCkCO1067
Jul 5, 2006, 09:27 AM
I have some question:
1.Does the free nano apply to these?
2. Can an Apple Remote work on these if you already have one or does it use bluetooth?
3. What difference does the 2 256 chips make vs. 1 512.

Thanks!

1. I doubt it...but maybe??? :confused:
2. Absolutely - all Apple Remotes can work with any Front Row/Universal iPod Dock
3. 2x256 chips are actually superior to 1x512 chip in that paired-ram has higher performance than unpaired ram. The downside to this? Upgrading in the future becomes more costly, as you have 2x256 chips that are basically useless...

sushi
Jul 5, 2006, 09:27 AM
Apple(R) today introduced a new $899 configuration of the 17-inch iMac(R) designed specifically for education customers
Fantastic news!

The current iMac goes for $1,199 with education discount.

So you are saving $300 per iMac. This is significant for a school system. And what is missing will hardly be missed.

jwsmiths
Jul 5, 2006, 09:27 AM
The mini also includes a remote, full DVI output, bluetooth and the world's smallest fully functional computer that looks truly awesome. They do need to lower the price $100 again - until they do that it will just be a mediocre deal.

gekko513
Jul 5, 2006, 09:28 AM
I have some question:
1.Does the free nano apply to these?
2. Can an Apple Remote work on these if you already have one or does it use bluetooth?
3. What difference does the 2 256 chips make vs. 1 512.

Thanks!
Good questions...

1. I don't know, but I followed the iMac link from the promotion page and it did list the new model even though the price on the promotion page didn't reflect that.
2. It doesn't use bluetooth, it uses infrared... I don't know if the infrared receiver is removed in the new model, though.
3. It's more convenient to upgrade 1 512, but 2 256 can be faster.

Core Trio
Jul 5, 2006, 09:29 AM
The iBooks are PowerPC Macs...the MacBooks are Intel Macs...

thats almost insulting to read haha.

thats not what I was trying to point out at all. Someone said the iBook was missing from the edu store, but its still there under PowerPC...

Eidorian
Jul 5, 2006, 09:30 AM
The mini also includes a remote, full DVI output, bluetooth and the world's smallest fully functional computer that looks truly awesome. They do need to lower the price $100 again - until they do that it will just be a mediocre deal.You still have Mini-DVI out on the educational iMac.

technicolor
Jul 5, 2006, 09:30 AM
This really makes the mini seem a bit over priced.

at edu prices, the high end mini is $779, and for $899 you get the iMac with a monitor, iSight, keyboard and mouse. Does anyone else see anything wrong with this picture??
Apple does not care trust me. In the edu store, ibooks are still going for the 949 and 1199 .

eMagius
Jul 5, 2006, 09:32 AM
I have some question:
1.Does the free nano apply to these?
2. Can an Apple Remote work on these if you already have one or does it use bluetooth?
3. What difference does the 2 256 chips make vs. 1 512.

Thanks!

1. I'd assume so. Both deals show up on the edu store (Purdue, in my case).
2. Yes. Or you can add in another remote for $26.
3. It's harder to upgrade on your own (i.e., to get up to 1 GB you'll need to replace the 2 x 256 sticks with two 512 MB sticks instead of just adding another 512 MB stick).

Hmmm... An edu iMac + 160 GB HDD + 1 GB RAM + remote still costs $100 less than the standard iMac with 512 MB of RAM (even at EDU pricing); all you lose is DVD burning ($20 external burners are much better than Apple's anyhow) and Bluetooth. Sounds like a deal to me.

AvSRoCkCO1067
Jul 5, 2006, 09:32 AM
thats almost insulting to read haha.

thats not what I was trying to point out at all. Someone said the iBook was missing from the edu store, but its still there under PowerPC...

:D :D :D
Gotcha :o

Fearless Leader
Jul 5, 2006, 09:32 AM
Weren't a lot of edu places staying away from iMacs because of the form factor? You do know they can fall over in earthquakes don't you? ;) :rolleyes:

huh? :confused:
this is a great idea.

Cowinacape
Jul 5, 2006, 09:32 AM
So with the the introduction of hte new iMac, can this been seen as a way of trying to clear out stockpiles of excess chips and parts inpreperation for new products in the near future here?

AvSRoCkCO1067
Jul 5, 2006, 09:33 AM
1. I'd assume so. Both deals show up on the edu store (Purdue, in my case).
2. Yes. Or you can add in another remote for $26.
3. It's harder to upgrade on your own (i.e., to get up to 1 GB you'll need to replace the 2 x 256 sticks with two 512 MB sticks instead of just adding another 512 MB stick).

Hmmm... An edu iMac + 160 GB HDD + 1 GB RAM + remote still costs $100 less than the standard iMac with 512 MB of RAM (even at EDU pricing); all you lose is DVD burning ($20 external burners are much better than Apple's anyhow) and Bluetooth. Sounds like a deal to me.

No no no - you lose a dedicated graphics card as well.

Oh, and I'd rather have a SuperDrive than a 20 dollar external burner...but that's just me :o

Stridder44
Jul 5, 2006, 09:36 AM
I quite agree! the one thing that worries me is, does this mean the G5 iMac enclosure is going to stay the same for some time longer now? Or do you think Apple will roll out a new enclosure with the updated iMacs (when ever that happens)


I've been wondering this same thing! I kinda hope for new enclosures but my gut tells me they're sticking around.

dornoforpyros
Jul 5, 2006, 09:37 AM
hmm this is good news for schools and it certainly makes sense to have such a machine. But I still have to wonder about the durability of the current iMac design in a classroom. I mean the one big advantage of the emac is that it won't tip over easily.

weitzner
Jul 5, 2006, 09:37 AM
apple is the only computer company still using 256mb sticks.:rolleyes:

i was thinking that maybe using 256 MB sticks keeps the cost down as maybe they are left-overs from days gone... perhaps they are simpply clearly out their inventory, and then they will update the specs to 1 512 stick.

N10248
Jul 5, 2006, 09:38 AM
Another reason for no remote is that if you have a room with 50 iMacs in, 1 student with an Apple Remote can make Front Row appear on 50 screens at once, which i expect would not go down well with the other students, especially if they then press Play or somthing.

iEric
Jul 5, 2006, 09:38 AM
this is a awesome computer for high schools and for campus libraries where people write papers and surf the web. and at the same time, it saves space and allows for more computers or books to be placed on the desks.

they use eMacs at Simon Fraser University and they're so big and clucky and when you try to write a paper with like 10 books, you have no where to put them.

yay imac edu.

sushi
Jul 5, 2006, 09:39 AM
Oh, and I'd rather have a SuperDrive than a 20 dollar external burner...but that's just me :o
Yeah, an external DVD burner kind of defeats the purpose of the iMac.

BenRoethig
Jul 5, 2006, 09:41 AM
If I were Apple, I'd update the iMacs with the T2500 and T2600 and make this education model available to the general public and business community. Put in a box and sell it at best buy, Wal-Mart, and anywhere else they actually buy computers.

AvSRoCkCO1067
Jul 5, 2006, 09:42 AM
Another reason for no remote is that if you have a room with 50 iMacs in, 1 student with an Apple Remote can make Front Row appear on 50 screens at once, which i expect would not go down well with the other students, especially if they then press Play or somthing.

Well you could always "pair" each remote with each computer, so that wouldn't happen...

...but still, you're right. Schools don't have any need for "Front Row," unless maybe a teacher wants to show dvds in her class often and can just hook up a projector to the iMac to watch them (in which case she could just buy a 30 dollar remote...)

BenRoethig
Jul 5, 2006, 09:45 AM
Yeah, an external DVD burner kind of defeats the purpose of the iMac.

Depends what your purpose is. If you want a powerful, stylish, and easy to use consumer machine the notebook drive is adequate. If you use it as the closest thing Apple has to a prosumer model, it's better to have a full size drive. One isn't going to bit in that case.

sushi
Jul 5, 2006, 09:46 AM
Another reason for no remote is that if you have a room with 50 iMacs in, 1 student with an Apple Remote can make Front Row appear on 50 screens at once, which i expect would not go down well with the other students, especially if they then press Play or somthing.
For the most part, remotes are a waste of money in the classroom and office environment.

BTW, I would hate to be the person responsible for accountability of all the remotes.

mark!
Jul 5, 2006, 09:46 AM
eh?

I'm just talking about the physical apple store in the union. The only thing you can walk in and buy there is an ipod. Everything else you have to order.

I'm just making fun of the hole-in-the-wallness of the store.

(granted, it's quite possible that most colleges are like this. but i want my instant gratification.)

Ooooooooh. In the union you can buy stuff there! They have stuff under the displays. Right now they hvae like....10 macbook pros and 10 macbooks and a couple ibooks. my uncle bought his ibook there & i bought my macbook pro there.


but they have like 80 ipods :eek:

sushi
Jul 5, 2006, 09:47 AM
Depends what your purpose is. If you want a powerful, stylish, and easy to use consumer machine the notebook drive is adequate. If you use it as the closest thing Apple has to a prosumer model, it's better to have a full size drive. One isn't going to bit in that case.
As you say, it depends on your needs.

Personally, I like the all-in-one concept for the classroom and office environment. No need to keep track of external parts/add ons.

And it tends to keep the idiots from trying to troubleshoot their computers by taking them apart! Arg!

weitzner
Jul 5, 2006, 09:53 AM
This really makes the mini seem a bit over priced.

at edu prices, the high end mini is $779, and for $899 you get the iMac with a monitor, iSight, keyboard and mouse. Does anyone else see anything wrong with this picture??

if you already have a monitor you like and a keyboard and a mouse, saving $100 isn't a bad thing.

BenRoethig
Jul 5, 2006, 09:54 AM
As you say, it depends on your needs.

Personally, I like the all-in-one concept for the classroom and office environment. No need to keep track of external parts/add ons.

And it tends to keep the idiots from trying to troubleshoot their computers by taking them apart! Arg!

I agree. For those environments, the all in one concept works perfectly. As does it for those who just want an easy to use computer. This fulfills those needs perfectly and is a lot easier to service than the Mini.

For the most part, remotes are a waste of money in the classroom and office environment.

BTW, I would hate to be the person responsible for accountability of all the remotes.

Plus, it's a $26 option if you still want it. It would be great when used with keynote as a presentation tool though.

dbhays
Jul 5, 2006, 10:02 AM
...but still, you're right. Schools don't have any need for "Front Row," unless maybe a teacher wants to show dvds in her class often and can just hook up a projector to the iMac to watch them (in which case she could just buy a 30 dollar remote...)

That's me. My second graders love front row on the projector. If I don't use front row, they are very disappointed. Also, they consider VHS very uncool. If its not on the projector screen they really whine.:D

I use front row in the classroom for DVDs, imovies and photo slide shows. So cool:cool:

BTW - watching "Lost" downloaded from itunes is pretty good on the big screen (during my grading time, that is)

As for the new edu imac - about time. We were really getting worried about purchasing newer imacs at that price. The emac really is too bulky now a days.

MS bulldog
Jul 5, 2006, 10:08 AM
so can this edu imac do the screen spanning/sharing?

guzhogi
Jul 5, 2006, 10:08 AM
I'm the computer techie at an elementary school and this is a good and bad thing. Good b/c you get this all for fairly cheap. Unfortunately, we still use quite a bit of classic software which won't run on it so not only would we have to buy the new computers, but new software as well. And being a public school, e don't have the $$. :(

Yvan256
Jul 5, 2006, 10:09 AM
Okay... Now we have a "basic iMac" with the GMA950... Where's the "high-end Mac mini" with the X1600/128MB? :D

Not that it matters to me anyway, I've cancelled my WoW account. :rolleyes:

extraextra
Jul 5, 2006, 10:09 AM
hmm this is good news for schools and it certainly makes sense to have such a machine. But I still have to wonder about the durability of the current iMac design in a classroom. I mean the one big advantage of the emac is that it won't tip over easily.

Well in California (at least at my school), everything was bolted to the tables, walls, etc. For earthquakes/theft. They put a screw/latch on all the computers onto a base, and the base is drilled into the desk.

I think it's very nice for schools but I worry that kids will abuse/break them. It's such a nice design. Way better than those clunky Windows machines from the nineties that my school seemed to adore. And better than the old iMac G3/eMac (but that one seemed like it could take a lot of abuse).

mlrproducts
Jul 5, 2006, 10:11 AM
The downside to this? Upgrading in the future becomes more costly, as you have 2x256 chips that are basically useless...

Tell that to everyone who keeps SPAMMING the Marketplace trying to sell them, ha! NO ONE WANTS YOUR PIDDLY LITTE 256 STICKS!!!

dextertangocci
Jul 5, 2006, 10:12 AM
sweeet :)
all these people are gonna have a heart attack for the shared memory though

Why does everyone think shared video memory is so bad? I play 3D games such as Doom 3 on medium to high settings on my MB, and it runs perfectly:)

DaveGee
Jul 5, 2006, 10:13 AM
i was thinking that maybe using 256 MB sticks keeps the cost down as maybe they are left-overs from days gone... perhaps they are simpply clearly out their inventory, and then they will update the specs to 1 512 stick.


Congratulation, you're this years winner of the "Giving Apple Too Much Credit Award" :D :)

Sorry, I'm just having fun.... but Apple has A-L-W-A-Y-S pulled this kind of nonsense with it's hardware and especially with memory... Some of the stuff I've seen them do is crazy to the point that you'd wonder who in their right mind would ever buy a system with 'Apple Upgraded Ram'. You want 1GB okay we'll charge you Street-Price + A 42% Surcharge oh you want that 1GB in one stick instead of 2 512's??? Sorry make that Street-Price + A 64% Surcharge... :lol:

Dave

Sam*
Jul 5, 2006, 10:20 AM
£639 for us here in the uk

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?home&NewsID=15161

mark!
Jul 5, 2006, 10:21 AM
Why does everyone think shared video memory is so bad? I play 3D games such as Doom 3 on medium to high settings on my MB, and it runs perfectly:)

i don't mind it but i think everyone else will.

slu
Jul 5, 2006, 10:23 AM
Why does everyone think shared video memory is so bad? I play 3D games such as Doom 3 on medium to high settings on my MB, and it runs perfectly:)

That is because, unlike you who actually own a MB, most of these people don't own or have not tried out a new Mini or MB, so they are just spouting retoric.

Integrated graphics is not as bad as it is made out to be around here. If all you did was read the opinions around here, you'd think integrated graphics is the end of computing as we know it.

And the fact that this new iMac will eventually, like the eMac before it, be available to anyone, will prove that.

An iMac for less than $1000 would be the best selling Mac in my opinion.

QCassidy352
Jul 5, 2006, 10:29 AM
this would actually be perfect for my mom (a school librarian) as she's currently on a 1 Ghz emac that has gotten really slow. She doesn't have an external monitor so a mini is no good, and she doesn't want to spend a lot... this might work perfectly. :)

weitzner
Jul 5, 2006, 10:30 AM
Congratulation, you're this years winner of the "Giving Apple Too Much Credit Award" :D :)

Sorry, I'm just having fun.... but Apple has A-L-W-A-Y-S pulled this kind of nonsense with it's hardware and especially with memory... Some of the stuff I've seen them do is crazy to the point that you'd wonder who in their right mind would ever buy a system with 'Apple Upgraded Ram'. You want 1GB okay we'll charge you Street-Price + A 42% Surcharge oh you want that 1GB in one stick instead of 2 512's??? Sorry make that Street-Price + A 64% Surcharge... :lol:

Dave

well at least i won SOMETHING :)

SpaceMagic
Jul 5, 2006, 10:33 AM
£639 for us here in the uk

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?home&NewsID=15161

Yeh, I saw this, but still no show on the edu store. Plus this will be Edu pricing and I want to see Higher Edu pricing ;)

Voidness
Jul 5, 2006, 10:34 AM
Actually, intergrated graphics is even worse than I thought when I tried using a Macbook.

But the truth is, many people here are happy with graphical performace they got from the Macbooks and Mac Minis, and good for them :)

Stridder44
Jul 5, 2006, 10:37 AM
Why does everyone think shared video memory is so bad? I play 3D games such as Doom 3 on medium to high settings on my MB, and it runs perfectly:)


Wow really?

regre7
Jul 5, 2006, 10:40 AM
Yeah, I might be able to get my mom to spring the dough for one of these. She's working on a Gateway model with a 1GHz Celeron, 512MB RAM (I upgraded from 128MB), and 200GB HDD capacity (I upgraded from 20GB). Now I think the graphics card I got for it (GeForce2 MX400, sux0rz) is dieing, the artifacts that usually come from overclocking/extreme heat are popping up. I'm not going to try to fix it, as I hope I can get her to buy a Mac. Of course, we're going on a K-12 teacher's salary (which isn't much at all).

Macs are almost viral. One of my friend's dad moved his family here from Jersey (I think), and he uses Macs. He's converted his son (my friend) to Mac, and he has an iBook. I was forced to use his iBook at a study session (I literally mean forced, I was diehard Windows at the time). I liked it, and a few months later (i.e., last Friday) I got the jack for a MBP and it arrived. I've also converted another friend, and his MacBook arrived July 3. His brother, who owns a 3.6GHz Alienware machine, really liked the MacBook, as he's going off to college, and I don't even want to guess how much the Alienware weighs. The Alienware/MacBook guy's mom saw me and MB guy video chatting from different sides of their house (I stayed the day with them July 3), and went crazy. She saw how easy iPhoto was (she loves taking pictures, has a digital Rebel) and said the next desktop they get should be a Mac. Now I'm going to try to get my mom to get this

Sorry for the off-topic rambling, I'm at work and I'm bored.

bigandy
Jul 5, 2006, 10:42 AM
There's no question that Apple's going to have to change something with the Mini (whether it be features or price) in the coming months (prior to Christmas), as it is an awful deal when looked at comparitively.

Both the Mini and the edu-iMac have similar ram and graphics capability...and at least the mini comes with a remote...but the monitor on the iMac is gorgeous, and worth about 200+ in my mind...

Does anyone else think that this low-low price has anything to do with the recent Intel reductions in its prices???

you mean like the iPod with video is only a few quid more than the iPod nano, and the iPod nano is only a few more than the Shuffle, making the shuffle and/or the nano a bad deal?

or like a BMW 520i being only $1000 cheaper than a 535i, making the 520i pointless?

different people need different things.

primalman
Jul 5, 2006, 10:46 AM
Actually, while this might be generally true, I wouldn't push my luck. Apple has some legal notes in the fine print when you place an edu. store order which, among other things, state that your claim of educational status is subject to future verification after the initial purchase. And further, if they do one of these "audits" and find you falsely claimed eduational status to obtain a discount, you're subject to being billed the difference in price between what you paid and the retail price for the item(s).

Bump on this.

Apple will randomly ask for verification, usually a copy of your enrollment or some other kind of official certification. It does happen. in the past 3 years, 2 or 3 of my students have been asked to verify. As well, if you buy for EDU price in the Apple store, they want an ID and may still ask for other verification.

DTphonehome
Jul 5, 2006, 10:49 AM
Another advantage over the mini...this one comes with mighty mouse and keyboard. The mini really needs to come down in price, IMO. My sister wants to pick up 3 or 4 minis for her kids, but if they don't get bumped or lowered in price by the end of the summer, I'm going to recommend the iMac, even though she already has screens and keyboards (PS/2 though, not USB) from her old PCs.

Oh, and regarding the 256 x 2 RAM configuration...clearly Apple is trying to burn off excess 256 sticks in inventory. RAM manufacturers are already reducing output of 256 modules due to lack of demand. Very shortly 512 will be the smallest modules made.

iDrinkKoolAid
Jul 5, 2006, 10:51 AM
My luck. I've just bought an 17-inch iMac this past Saturday with my student discount. Well, at least I got my free 2GB iPod nano... (American promotion)

Stridder44
Jul 5, 2006, 10:56 AM
Oh, and regarding the 256 x 2 RAM configuration...clearly Apple is trying to burn off excess 256 sticks in inventory. RAM manufacturers are already reducing output of 256 modules due to lack of demand. Very shortly 512 will be the smallest modules made.


And 512 RAM should be a minimum when running OS X anyway..

Eidorian
Jul 5, 2006, 10:56 AM
My luck. I've just bought an 17-inch iMac this past Saturday with my student discount. Well, at least I got my free 2GB iPod nano... (American promotion)

Product: iMac
Last Release: January 10, 2006
Days Since Update: 176 (Average = 183)With the refresh being this late and WWDC just a few weeks away, you didn't wait? I am waiting for a refresh at least. Even if it's not Merom in the iMac.

Oh and my birthday is in two weeks. On a TUESDAY. :rolleyes:

jholzner
Jul 5, 2006, 10:58 AM
Another advantage over the mini...this one comes with mighty mouse and keyboard. The mini really needs to come down in price, IMO. My sister wants to pick up 3 or 4 minis for her kids, but if they don't get bumped or lowered in price by the end of the summer, I'm going to recommend the iMac, even though she already has screens and keyboards (PS/2 though, not USB) from her old PCs.

Oh, and regarding the 256 x 2 RAM configuration...clearly Apple is trying to burn off excess 256 sticks in inventory. RAM manufacturers are already reducing output of 256 modules due to lack of demand. Very shortly 512 will be the smallest modules made.

I don't think the RAM config. has anything to do with burning off excess 256 sticks. ALL macs using integrated graphics use the two-stick config.

081440
Jul 5, 2006, 11:04 AM
Well you could always "pair" each remote with each computer, so that wouldn't happen...

...but still, you're right. Schools don't have any need for "Front Row," unless maybe a teacher wants to show dvds in her class often and can just hook up a projector to the iMac to watch them (in which case she could just buy a 30 dollar remote...)


Or just use the keyboard to start up Front Row.....


anyhow this is a fantastic development.

I think the case could still change in the near future all Apple did was alter the components and use the 17" iMac's case.

DTphonehome
Jul 5, 2006, 11:09 AM
I don't think the RAM config. has anything to do with burning off excess 256 sticks. ALL macs using integrated graphics use the two-stick config.

Right...and they will do that until they run out of 256 modules. Then they will start using one 512 stick. Using the 256 sticks is the most cost-effective way of getting 512 MB into a machine, plus it uses up inventory which will soon be obsolete. When 1 GB becomes standard, they won't be using 4 x 256. They will use 512 x 2.

emotion
Jul 5, 2006, 11:10 AM
£639 for us here in the uk

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?home&NewsID=15161

Finally a frame of reference for UKers. Not on the Edu store in the UK yet but comparing this to the old lowest spec iMac which is £773 to contact educational purchasers.

£134 buys:

Superdrive
Dedicated graphics
Remote
Bluetooth
160GB vs 80GB HD

For personal purchases most people would rather pay the extra I think but if you're equipping a lab or the budget is tight it's nice this new model exists.

Stridder44
Jul 5, 2006, 11:11 AM
Or just use the keyboard to start up Front Row.....


anyhow this is a fantastic development.

I think the case could still change in the near future all Apple did was alter the components and use the 17" iMac's case.


Well I think it's horrible. I hate saving money and having nice computers.

Stella
Jul 5, 2006, 11:12 AM
This machine is a good general schooling machine - capable at word processing, spread sheet, programming etc.

There is no need for a high end graphics card, BT etc and the costs are kept down.

This obviously isn't a machine for a media course - animation etc.

081440
Jul 5, 2006, 11:16 AM
Right...and they will do that until they run out of 256 modules. Then they will start using one 512 stick. Using the 256 sticks is the most cost-effective way of getting 512 MB into a machine, plus it uses up inventory which will soon be obsolete. When 1 GB becomes standard, they won't be using 4 x 256. They will use 512 x 2.


uh..... There are only two RAM slots in the iMac so how could they possibly fit four sticks in? :eek:


As said before paired memory is used on all Macs with integrated graphics, it's because it lets the same amount of RAM move faster and therefore the shared memory is less of a drag.

bobber205
Jul 5, 2006, 11:28 AM
I will have to have my dad get one of those. He was going to get a Emac, but this is even better.

Eidorian
Jul 5, 2006, 11:29 AM
One more thing...

I linked you to the Departmental Education store (departments, labs, etc.) and NOT the Individual one (students, faculty, staff).

Chrysaor
Jul 5, 2006, 11:38 AM
Sorry if this was asked before..
Is this new model eligible for free iPod also?

boncellis
Jul 5, 2006, 11:44 AM
...Its the eMac reborn:D

Only better, in my opinion. I was on the fence about what to get for the wife, but this looks like a winner! At least she won't complain about the integrated graphics...;)

Agent69
Jul 5, 2006, 11:44 AM
Actually, while this might be generally true, I wouldn't push my luck. Apple has some legal notes in the fine print when you place an edu. store order which, among other things, state that your claim of educational status is subject to future verification after the initial purchase. And further, if they do one of these "audits" and find you falsely claimed eduational status to obtain a discount, you're subject to being billed the difference in price between what you paid and the retail price for the item(s).

Your right. Now, what is the retail price for this particular iMac.

BenRoethig
Jul 5, 2006, 11:45 AM
Finally a frame of reference for UKers. Not on the Edu store in the UK yet but comparing this to the old lowest spec iMac which is £773 to contact educational purchasers.

£134 buys:

Superdrive
Dedicated graphics
Remote
Bluetooth
160GB vs 80GB HD

For personal purchases most people would rather pay the extra I think but if you're equipping a lab or the budget is tight it's nice this new model exists.

Most mac users, yes. People, no. A lot of people don't need the superdrive, remote, dedicated graphics, bluetooth, or larger hard drive. The one thing they might need, but is not included for some reason is iWork.

Peace
Jul 5, 2006, 11:46 AM
Your right. Now, what is the retail price for this particular iMac.


I think this is only available to EDU users..

celebrian23
Jul 5, 2006, 11:49 AM
the isight concerns me for classroom use. Trust me, you don't want 14-18 year old boys playing with a webcam. :rolleyes: I can imagine a school that can afford mac computers can afford video cameras and the such. If I wanted a desktop instead of a laptop, I would get this in a second. I'm thinking maybe the mac minis might have some surprises for us in august now :eek:

boncellis
Jul 5, 2006, 11:55 AM
...I'm thinking maybe the mac minis might have some surprises for us in august now :eek:


Hmm...you may be onto something. Perhaps the Mini will see a price drop and/or a third model? Or will it just be revamped when Merom comes out? Decisions, decisions...

Agent69
Jul 5, 2006, 11:57 AM
I think this is only available to EDU users..

That's my point. Usually, you just pay back what you illegally saved, but since this model isn't normally available, how would they decide what to charge you?

Peace
Jul 5, 2006, 12:02 PM
That's my point. Usually, you just pay back what you illegally saved, but since this model isn't normally available, how would they decide what to charge you?


Ah so you're asking what the price would be if one illegally purchased it through the EDU store and was then later charged for the difference ?

First off.One shouldn't "illegally" purchase anything from Apple.
Secondly if one did do that i'm guessing the price difference would be up to Apple.In otherwords there is no "retail price".:)

macnews
Jul 5, 2006, 12:08 PM
This machine is a good general schooling machine - capable at word processing, spread sheet, programming etc.

There is no need for a high end graphics card, BT etc and the costs are kept down.

This obviously isn't a machine for a media course - animation etc.


Thank God some one on here understands! I am an education buyer and YES I will buy this mac. I upgrade the RAM anyway to 1GB or at least 712. The remote is a pain in the ass - just something to get lost or abused by students. Bluetooth - what in a school? No thank you. I don't want this keeds syncing their cell phones with the computer in the first place, after all, it isn't "their" computer. I also don't want wireless headphones/microphones. Batteries become a problem so I would prefer to use a wired version when and if I needed it. Ingetrated graphics work fine as Stella pointed out. Plus, what I think many non-institutional edu buyers don't understand is the plus side of 10/100/1000 ethernet. Sure, Safari might run faster with more ram but then you connect it via gigabit to a T3 and you don't notice much difference to a 1.5GB Ram machine on DSL or Cable.

Sure, I can't burn a DVD on these but if I need that kind of power than I don't buy an iMac anyway. If I am doing graphics in the edu market I use a powermac or its replacement.

Understand, I think this is geared more towards insitutional buyers than even students. But, even at the student level I have seen many students go for the sub $600/$500 PCs that have, guess what, integrated graphics. The educated student who wants more won't buy those same PCs and won't buy this Mac. To any student, I would recommend the next step up as it will do more longer but for those on a tight budget this will work fine for k-college.

count chocula
Jul 5, 2006, 12:13 PM
Sorry if this was asked before..
Is this new model eligible for free iPod also?
yep. any mac is eligible if its purchased by a college student or college/gradeschool teachers. because this is only available through the education store, every purchase will be eligible for the free ipod.

Agent69
Jul 5, 2006, 12:15 PM
Ah so you're asking what the price would be if one illegally purchased it through the EDU store and was then later charged for the difference ?

First off.One shouldn't "illegally" purchase anything from Apple.
Secondly if one did do that i'm guessing the price difference would be up to Apple.In otherwords there is no "retail price".:)

See, that would be my thing. I don't mind paying the difference if caught, but I would like to know what the penality is beforehand.

macnews
Jul 5, 2006, 12:16 PM
the isight concerns me for classroom use. Trust me, you don't want 14-18 year old boys playing with a webcam. :rolleyes: I can imagine a school that can afford mac computers can afford video cameras and the such. If I wanted a desktop instead of a laptop, I would get this in a second. I'm thinking maybe the mac minis might have some surprises for us in august now :eek:

I think there is a way to turn off the iSight. I am researching this myself since I have some recent PPC and Intel iMacs I am looking at this for. Apple also released a new version of Remote Desktop (ARD) and I am hoping this might allow for some remote viewing as well. However, even given potential problems with the iSight I also see potential benefits. Imagine video conferencing with other students in the same building or a different school or even business far away! The potential is awesome!

iShane
Jul 5, 2006, 12:17 PM
I really don't think its a good idea to have LCD screens around kids. I know when my friends come to my house and we use my computer they poke the screen because they're used to their glass CRT moniters. But anyways I can't wait to see these start showing up in my school.

mhuk01
Jul 5, 2006, 12:26 PM
it is available in the uk, u just have to look for it :)
http://www.apple.com/uk/education/imac/

DTphonehome
Jul 5, 2006, 12:27 PM
uh..... There are only two RAM slots in the iMac so how could they possibly fit four sticks in? :eek:


As said before paired memory is used on all Macs with integrated graphics, it's because it lets the same amount of RAM move faster and therefore the shared memory is less of a drag.

I was saying that obviously Apple has to use these sticks before they become totally useless. The reason that all "integrated graphics" machines use 2 x 256 is that it's cheaper and it uses up inventory.

As for the matched pairs myth, it's barely faster in benchmarks, and marginally faster in real-world usage (from barefeats.com):

"DO MATCHING MEMORY PAIRS MAKE IT GO FASTER?
We tested the MacBook Pro with both matching pairs of 1GB SDRAM and non-matching pairs (one 1GB and one 256MB module). None of the GPU test results were affected but the matching pairs did provide a small gain in CPU intensive tests (2.5% in iMovie, 3.5% in Photoshop CS)."

Anyway, I think this point has been debated to death, so this is all I have to say about it.

mhuk01
Jul 5, 2006, 12:30 PM
the isight concerns me for classroom use. Trust me, you don't want 14-18 year old boys playing with a webcam. :rolleyes:

and what would you mean by that??!;) maybe its just in america:)
(joke!!!!!!!!!)

Lancetx
Jul 5, 2006, 12:32 PM
Sorry if this was asked before..
Is this new model eligible for free iPod also?

Yes it is...

1. Buy a Mac.
Buy a new MacBook, MacBook Pro, iMac, or Power Mac G5.

2. Buy an iPod nano.
Purchase your iPod with a Mac.

3. Submit your rebate.
Your iPod nano is free after mail-in rebate.* Or choose another iPod and enjoy big savings after mail-in rebate.* After you receive your products, start your rebate online for fastest processing. Or download and mail the rebate form.

081440
Jul 5, 2006, 12:40 PM
Anyway, I think this point has been debated to death, so this is all I have to say about it.

I Agree! :D (But I'm still not saying your correct)

I really don't think its a good idea to have LCD screens around kids. I know when my friends come to my house and we use my computer they poke the screen because they're used to their glass CRT moniters. But anyways I can't wait to see these start showing up in my school.


WHY DO PC PEOPLE POKE THE SCREEN?!?!?!?!?!??!?!? It's so annoying, I had one friend come over and was pointing out something on my bran new 23" Cinema Display and he poked so hard it turned the spot pink for a couple minutes, I was ready to kill him!! (He has since converted to the Mac :D (redeeming himself, somewhat)) Luckily it left no lasting damage, but all my PC friends seem to poke their screens, even those with LCDs and the Mac people seem not to..... I can't figure it out.....:confused:

Agent69
Jul 5, 2006, 12:41 PM
I think there is a way to turn off the iSight. I am researching this myself since I have some recent PPC and Intel iMacs I am looking at this for. Apple also released a new version of Remote Desktop (ARD) and I am hoping this might allow for some remote viewing as well. However, even given potential problems with the iSight I also see potential benefits. Imagine video conferencing with other students in the same building or a different school or even business far away! The potential is awesome!

I have heard that there is a kernel extension that allows the iSight to work and that all you have to do is remove it. I will look around and see if I can find where I read that.

macnews
Jul 5, 2006, 12:44 PM
I have heard that there is a kernel extension that allows the iSight to work and that all you have to do is remove it. I will look around and see if I can find where I read that.

I was going to look in system prefs when you create multiple users. I also may have some option since I also use LDAP users - although not sure on that one since my server is a Panther server and thus doesn't have all the Tiger system prefs.

Bill Gates
Jul 5, 2006, 12:47 PM
I was saying that obviously Apple has to use these sticks before they become totally useless. The reason that all "integrated graphics" machines use 2 x 256 is that it's cheaper and it uses up inventory.

As for the matched pairs myth, it's barely faster in benchmarks, and marginally faster in real-world usage (from barefeats.com):

"DO MATCHING MEMORY PAIRS MAKE IT GO FASTER?
We tested the MacBook Pro with both matching pairs of 1GB SDRAM and non-matching pairs (one 1GB and one 256MB module). None of the GPU test results were affected but the matching pairs did provide a small gain in CPU intensive tests (2.5% in iMovie, 3.5% in Photoshop CS)."

Anyway, I think this point has been debated to death, so this is all I have to say about it.
That's for a MacBook Pro, which has a dedicated graphics card. It makes a difference for integrated graphics.

mccldwll
Jul 5, 2006, 12:47 PM
This was predicted by many on here weeks back when rumor of a late fall new emac surfaced (this had to come in July). Only surprise to me is including isight. Possibility a marketing plan. On bulk edu orders, apple can remove camera and add "iplug/epatch" for $ discount (much better approach than using plugged isight as standard offering). Allows Apple to use up imac casings and continue to use moulds. Presages intro of new form factor (my guess is beefing up/expanding mini line, but pair 2 piece imac mini w/ a dock/screen--the home entertainment imac).

Metatron
Jul 5, 2006, 12:48 PM
The sad thing is these are perect business PCs. They can run any OS, no small picese like remote to lose, comes with the essentials. Most office use ....office and the internet. No need for iLife, remote, bluetooth, dedicated graphics.... I would order 100 today if apple made these for business purchase as well. But you know apple, $100,000 is nothing to them these days.

chairguru22
Jul 5, 2006, 12:56 PM
now once apple fully supports bootcamp and windows use then PCs in schools will start to become nonexistent.

mccldwll
Jul 5, 2006, 12:58 PM
Yes it is...

Nope. Unless Apple changes the rebate program/form, it says only includes imacs w/ superdrive!

Plecky
Jul 5, 2006, 01:05 PM
Nope. Unless Apple changes the rebate program/form, it says only includes imacs w/ superdrive!

Well that makes the deal for personal purchase a lot less sweet. Now one thing you also have to add that the 899 model doesn't include is a free 2 GB Nano. That $300 premium for education consumers (personal purchases mostly) is looking that much sweeter, considoring it's a $179 rebate value there alone! 899 with the free nano though would've been a good deal for many, I'm starting to think otherwise. Even if you already have a ipod, music player, etc. you could still ebay it or sell it off... Regardless, are the 599 and 799 Mac's elgible for the free nano?

WildCowboy
Jul 5, 2006, 01:10 PM
Regardless, are the 599 and 799 Mac's elgible for the free nano?

No...Mac minis are not part of the promotion.

Here (PDF) (http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/bts/BTS2006Rebate.pdf) is the rebate form...qualifying machines are at the bottom of the document.

Product Family Qualifying Models
iMac
17-inch 1.83GHz Intel Core Duo with SuperDrive
20-inch 2GHz Intel Core Duo with SuperDrive
iBook
14-inch 1.42GHz PowerPC G4
MacBook
13.3-inch 1.83GHz Intel Core Duo
13.3-inch 2GHz Intel Core Duo
MacBook Pro
15.4-inch 1.83GHz Intel Core Duo
15.4-inch 2GHz Intel Core Duo
15.4-inch 2.16GHz Intel Core Duo
17-inch 2.16GHz Intel Core Duo
PowerBook
12-inch 1.5GHz PowerPC G4
Power Mac
Dual 2GHz PowerPC G5
Dual 2.3GHz PowerPC G5
Quad 2.5GHz PowerPC G5

Qualifying iPod Rebate Amount
2GB iPod nano $179
4GB iPod nano $179
30GB iPod $179
60GB iPod $179
1GB iPod nano $129
1GB iPod shuffle $89
512MB iPod shuffle $69

wmmk
Jul 5, 2006, 01:26 PM
See, that would be my thing. I don't mind paying the difference if caught, but I would like to know what the penality is beforehand.
Is buying a computer the normal legit way just too hard? If you really must have this, buy an iMac for $1299, rip out the superdrive, rip out the graphics, rip out the HDD, and throw your apple remote in te trash. Oh yeah, and uninstall iLife.
:rolleyes:

Agent69
Jul 5, 2006, 01:27 PM
Is buying a computer the normal legit way just too hard? If you really must have this, buy an iMac for $1299, rip out the superdrive, rip out the graphics, rip out the HDD, and throw your apple remote in te trash. Oh yeah, and uninstall iLife.
:rolleyes:

Yes, it is. I have just enought for the educational iMac, so unless you want to give me the difference, stop rolling your eyes.

LieutenantLefse
Jul 5, 2006, 01:32 PM
Plus, what I think many non-institutional edu buyers don't understand is the plus side of 10/100/1000 ethernet. Sure, Safari might run faster with more ram but then you connect it via gigabit to a T3 and you don't notice much difference to a 1.5GB Ram machine on DSL or Cable.

I still don't understand. An entire T3 is about 45Mbps, and 45Mbps < 100Mbps, so what advantage does gigabit to the desktop give you for web browsing?

Peace
Jul 5, 2006, 01:33 PM
Yes, it is. I have just enought for the educational iMac, so unless you want to give me the difference, stop rolling your eyes.

I need to inform you that what you keep writing about is illegal.Period.It's called fraud.

Either keep it to yourself or one of the mods is gonna eventually ban you.

celebrian23
Jul 5, 2006, 01:38 PM
now once apple fully supports bootcamp and windows use then PCs in schools will start to become nonexistent.

wrong. Theoretically yes, but Macs are very expensive for your average public school. Money is very tight for a lot of public schools, and macs don't fit into that equation

Mechcozmo
Jul 5, 2006, 01:48 PM
I still don't understand. An entire T3 is about 45Mbps, and 45Mbps < 100Mbps, so what advantage does gigabit to the desktop give you for web browsing?

None whatsoever. But when you are transferring files between two computers, GigE is wonderful. Example: I had to transfer a disk image to a friend of mine. ~650MB of data. With gigabit, it would have taken a few seconds. With normal Base 10/100-T ethernet, it took close to 5 minutes (IIRC).

But you are right; there is no gain to web browsing. Although I'd like a T3 in my house! :D

codo
Jul 5, 2006, 01:54 PM
wrong. Theoretically yes, but Macs are very expensive for your average public school. Money is very tight for a lot of public schools, and macs don't fit into that equation

I've argued this several times and agree with you fully. Apple would need to do some more subsidising to get into state schools over Dell.

I can’t even see this new iMac on the NUS HE store even though Apple state in their UK PR statement it's available. Odd.

QCassidy352
Jul 5, 2006, 01:55 PM
yep. any mac is eligible if its purchased by a college student or college/gradeschool teachers. because this is only available through the education store, every purchase will be eligible for the free ipod.

almost... the mac mini is not eligible no matter who it is purchased by. The margins aren't high enough, I guess. (damn, took too long to post... someone beat me too it!) Yet another reason to buy this over a mini. :)

Weighing in on the mini/edu imac debate...
Yes, this is a much better deal for someone starting from scratch. But, if I were in the market for a low end desktop, I'd get a core duo mini. Why? I have a bluetooth mouse, a bluetooth keyboard, and a 20" apple cinema display. Superdrive, bluetooth, and the remote, all standard on the mini, are all unavailable (or an add-on, in the remote's case) on the edu imac. And the mini is $120 cheaper; that's not a fortune, but it's not nothing. So yes, I think this makes the mini look a lot worse, and I think the mini could really use a nice bump and/or price cut, but the mini is a legitimate choice for some people.

inkswamp
Jul 5, 2006, 02:06 PM
The sad thing is these are perect business PCs.

That's the first thing that crossed my mind. Where I work, we could use machines like this for some routine tasks or clerical positions where graphics and processor power are not necessary. I don't understand Apple's need to make these "educational only" machines. Why can't they offer a mid-range, mid-priced machine, somewhere between the Mini and the iMac, but with a display and just make it available to everyone?

And not only that, but there are probably loads of people wanting a machine like this. I would buy one for my daughter in an instant. She's been wanting a computer in her room but I can't see shelling out $1200+ for an iMac or a laptop, and the Mini is not a solution because I would need to buy a display, keyboard, mouse, etc.

I don't get why Apple feels the need to quarantine machines like this. They did it with the eMac at first too.

nem3015
Jul 5, 2006, 02:10 PM
I think this is a geat deal but something does worry me...If this is suppose to be for education, I just hope the schools that buy them remember to buy extra ram for Microsoft Office.

They can just use openoffice for free. Is 100% compatible with Microsoft Office. Also is a good way of getting rid of Microsoft from you computer (unlike windows users that still need the operating system at least)

BlizzardBomb
Jul 5, 2006, 02:42 PM
That's for a MacBook Pro, which has a dedicated graphics card. It makes a difference for integrated graphics.

http://www.barefeats.com/mincd.html
For 6 out of 7 tests, the difference is so tiny, it wouldn't be noticeable. In one test, unmatched even beats matched.

p0intblank
Jul 5, 2006, 03:01 PM
Wow, this is very cool! $899 for a iMac with a Core Duo is cheap. Hopefully this will catch on very quickly.

Some_Big_Spoon
Jul 5, 2006, 03:07 PM
I need to inform you that what you keep writing about is illegal.Period.It's called fraud.

Either keep it to yourself or one of the mods is gonna eventually ban you.

Yes, lord (and the republican party) forbid you discuss things in a theoretical fashion. We wouldn't want people thinking, that's just too dangerous.

On topic, the isight built in is still going to be a deal breaker for many institutions. I don't understand why they just don't make a slight case mod at design and offer it without the cam?

Plecky
Jul 5, 2006, 03:09 PM
If I was personally in the market for a 17" iMac, I'd say the 899 is a good deal. Although given the free nano promotion I think I'd put in the extra busy work and eblow grease to snag a 17" $1,199 iMac, sell the Nano for $150-200 on ebay and have a iMac for close to a grand as a final price. Especially if you considor adding any upgrades to the 899 base model such as the larger hard drive and remote. At least you get a video card which will take strain off the RAM making the upgrade to 1 gig less necessary (unlike it being quite important with integrated graphics and a extra $90 cost if done through apple), and if you want to upgrade the higher end model you just have to buy one 512 stick oppose to two. Also, bluetooth and a superdrive may be nice to have in the future... you never know right? Well maybe you do... Regardless, that's only for personal purchase. For bulk purchases, educational institutes, or young kids 899 is fine. But then again a dropped down priced eMac would be fine too. Is it true that it doesn't come preinstalled with iLife '06? I can't seem to find information regarding this but read that in a few posts up. Not having iLife '06 is huge, that's one of the things I love most about the Mac Experience and really serves as a gateway to Apple's wonderful application world. That, in my opinion, would be a crucial 60 dollar value - making this computer seem like even less of a deal. It's gotta come with iLife '06! If the mini's can afford having iLife '06 bundled, so can this right?

Eidorian
Jul 5, 2006, 03:12 PM
All new Macs come with iLife...

celebrian23
Jul 5, 2006, 03:13 PM
On topic, the isight built in is still going to be a deal breaker for many institutions. I don't understand why they just don't make a slight case mod at design and offer it without the cam?

Me neither. I don't see how an isight could possibly benefit a classroom. At the school I recently graduated from, image searches were blocked. I highly doubt they'd be thrilled to see an isight on it.

aafuss1
Jul 5, 2006, 03:15 PM
All it's missing is a encyclopedia-multimedia (they could use Boot Camp to run Encarta-which is leading brand).

aafuss1
Jul 5, 2006, 03:15 PM
All it's missing is a encyclopedia-multimedia (they could use Boot Camp to run Encarta-which is leading brand). O

aafuss1
Jul 5, 2006, 03:16 PM
All it's missing is a encyclopedia-multimedia (they could use Boot Camp to run Encarta-which is leading brand). Or Wikipedia.

http://tinyurl.com/o92cq

Eidorian
Jul 5, 2006, 03:17 PM
All it's missing is a encyclopedia-multimedia (they could use Boot Camp to run Encarta-which is leading brand). Or Wikipedia.

http://tinyurl.com/o92cqhttp://www.mackiev.com/world_book.html

That and you made a TRIPLE post. :rolleyes:

dejo
Jul 5, 2006, 03:19 PM
Me neither. I don't see how an isight could possibly benefit a classroom.

How 'bout maybe chatting with a class from another school, perhaps even internationally?

generik
Jul 5, 2006, 03:21 PM
I need to inform you that what you keep writing about is illegal.Period.It's called fraud.

Either keep it to yourself or one of the mods is gonna eventually ban you.

Really? Is it a felony?

Strange, I don't care about "crimes" like this, especially going by your thinking Apple can dictate what I can and can't do. It is not like Apple is selling at a loss to us students either.

iMeowbot
Jul 5, 2006, 03:28 PM
Me neither. I don't see how an isight could possibly benefit a classroom. At the school I recently graduated from, image searches were blocked. I highly doubt they'd be thrilled to see an isight on it.
Here's (http://www.apple.com/education/ichat/) the Apple thinking on that. They even offer lesson plans :)

codo
Jul 5, 2006, 03:29 PM
Really? Is it a felony?

Strange, I don't care about "crimes" like this, especially going by your thinking Apple can dictate what I can and can't do. It is not like Apple is selling at a loss to us students either.

Do you have no morals? Since when was fraud an acceptable thing? I don't know about your state, but its certainly illegal here. It makes life a bit easier for students, if it was widely abused I have no doubt that Apple would remove it or push up the price points - They are after all, a business, not a charity.

How 'bout maybe chatting with a class from another school, perhaps even internationally?

Maybe have one iSight enabled machine for the teacher. Makes sense, although I guess it depends how much you would actually save by not having it there - If it’s little ($20? Maybe less) then it probably wouldn’t sway them that much. Every Dollar/Pound/Euro/Yen/Etc counts however.

celebrian23
Jul 5, 2006, 03:33 PM
Here's (http://www.apple.com/education/ichat/) the Apple thinking on that. They even offer lesson plans :)

That's nice, but I don't see the average school doing this. It's kind of unrealistic. I think the isight's cons are a lot more prevelant than its pros for a classroom setting.

ichat would never last at my school- no messenger programs are ever allowed

081440
Jul 5, 2006, 03:47 PM
Yes, it is. I have just enought for the educational iMac, so unless you want to give me the difference, stop rolling your eyes.

Then why don't you, and all the rest of the people plotting to rip off Apple and abuse the very helpful educational store, save up some more cash and buy it legally. Or if thats too hard to do - save some $$

My god if you can only afford the $899 then buy a Mac mini and using your logic go rob the local computer store for a screen, keyboard, and mouse. Guess where you live you'd only have to pay for them if the cops get you. :mad:

Agent69
Jul 5, 2006, 04:00 PM
Then why don't you, and all the rest of the people plotting to rip off Apple and abuse the very helpful educational store, save up some more cash and buy it legally. Or if thats too hard to do - save some $$

My god if you can only afford the $899 then buy a Mac mini and using your logic go rob the local computer store for a screen, keyboard, and mouse. Guess where you live you'd only have to pay for them if the cops get you. :mad:

In my case, it no longer matters, as I have found someone who is a teacher to buy it for me. Hopefully, Apple will offer this to everyone, like they did with the eMac.

bigmc6000
Jul 5, 2006, 04:01 PM
Then why don't you, and all the rest of the people plotting to rip off Apple and abuse the very helpful educational store, save up some more cash and buy it legally. Or if thats too hard to do - save some $$

My god if you can only afford the $899 then buy a Mac mini and using your logic go rob the local computer store for a screen, keyboard, and mouse. Guess where you live you'd only have to pay for them if the cops get you. :mad:

Dang people - simmer. Let's make 1 thing perfectly clear - you aren't ripping Apple off if you buy an $899 iMac. To rip someone off they'd actually have to take a loss and seeing as how Agent69 seems to be saying "Edu iMac or nothing" it's actually adventageous to Apple if he does buy it. If he's willing to risk the consequences of a couple hundred dollards down the line then go for it - you guys act like you've never pushed something a little more than intended. Let me ask this - how many people speed? And your argument when you get caught speeding? Nothing - you took the risk to speed and you got caught. If Agent69 takes the risk and buys the Edu iMac than he's accepting the risk.

It's all about if you're willing to accept the risk now everybody stop getting their panties in a bunch :p

javierbds
Jul 5, 2006, 04:03 PM
I think this is a geat deal but something does worry me...If this is suppose to be for education, I just hope the schools that buy them remember to buy extra ram for Microsoft Office.

You sure mean OpenOffice (NeoOffice) ... You save on Hw to give the money to MS? :(

boncellis
Jul 5, 2006, 04:05 PM
I think the iSight is so inexpensive for Apple to include that they just threw it in to entice students who might buy the machine--not really university IT departments or school districts. What's the harm in including it if the school can just disable it?

bigmc6000
Jul 5, 2006, 04:06 PM
That's nice, but I don't see the average school doing this. It's kind of unrealistic. I think the isight's cons are a lot more prevelant than its pros for a classroom setting.

ichat would never last at my school- no messenger programs are ever allowed

They might use them in computer labs where test taking is and having the administrator have kind of a "watch everyone" type of thing and have some software that will store everyone on the HD. Talk about stopping people from cheating. We've got a camera right in front of your face and we save the whole thing!! haha:D

javierbds
Jul 5, 2006, 04:19 PM
The other iMacs should have a slightly faster Processor?!
Or does the iMac have heating problems ?
Why are the laptops still faster than the iMac? :mad:

Anybody knows if the Edu iMac has the processor soldered? (Merom ... :rolleyes: )

Eidorian
Jul 5, 2006, 04:26 PM
Anybody knows if the Edu iMac has the processor soldered? (Merom ... :rolleyes: )The interior appears to be more or less the same when compared to the normal models.

Doctor Q
Jul 5, 2006, 04:36 PM
Apple's press release mentions iDVD without noting that the education iMac can't burn DVDs. They mention iDVD because it's part of iLife '06, so anybody paying half attention will no that iDVD won't be very useful.

Since our school's education store doesn't yet have this model, I can't tell for sure yet if you can order it with a Superdrive. The press release implies that you can't by mentioning only other upgrade options (RAM, disk, iWork).

Eidorian
Jul 5, 2006, 04:39 PM
Since our school's education store doesn't yet have this model, I can't tell for sure yet if you can order it with a Superdrive. The press release implies that you can't by mentioning only other upgrade options (RAM, disk, iWork).There's no Super Drive option.

shawnce
Jul 5, 2006, 04:49 PM
Let's make 1 thing perfectly clear - you aren't ripping Apple off if you buy an $899 iMac. To rip someone off they'd actually have to take a loss and seeing as how Agent69 seems to be saying "Edu iMac or nothing" it's actually adventageous to Apple if he does buy it.

Faulty logic.

Apple is selling these system at educational pricing which has much narrower margins then the consumer pricing. The intent is to benefit students and institutions by giving them a lower price (and of course attempt to push their products in this market segment)... in other words Apple is gifting a part of their profits to this specific market (as defined by Apple in their purchase agreement, which you have to agree with before you can purchase). If someone from outside this specific market purchases such a system you are benefitting from this gift when you should not be (you are or someone on your behalf is fraudulently stating you are a member of this market segment). In other words you are pocketing a gift meant for others.

Yes people speed and yes people commit minor fraud like the above but doing so is illegal and amoral to some degree (depending on your moral standards and relativism).

Apple's purchase agreement...
Who is Eligible To Purchase
The following education individuals are eligible to purchase through the Apple Store for Education individuals:

Faculty or staff member of a public or private Higher Education Institution in the United States
Student currently attending or accepted into a public or private Higher Education Institution in the United States
Purchase Quantity
Faculty, Staff and Students purchasing from the Apple Store for Education Individuals will be allowed to purchase the following quantities of product per academic school year:

Desktop: One (1) may be purchased per academic year
Mac mini: One (1) may be purchased per academic year
Laptop: One (1) may be purchased per academic year
Display: A maximum of two (2) may be purchased per academic year
Software: A maximum of two (2) per software title may be purchased per academic year
iPod: One (1) per iPod family (iPod, iPod nano, iPod Shuffle 1GB) may be purchased per academic year (Note: there is no quantity limitation on iPod Shuffle 512MB)
iSight: One (1) may be purchased per academic year
**The above purchases can be made either online or through your Apple Authorized Campus Store. Total product quantities remain the same regardless of where your purchase is made.

Statement of Eligibility
I represent that I am a member of one of the defined groups above eligible to purchase and that the products being purchased direct from Apple Computer, Inc. are for my own personal, education, and/or research use.

balamw
Jul 5, 2006, 04:55 PM
anybody paying half attention will no that iDVD won't be very useful.
:confused: Sure it can. I was using iDVD on my Combo drive iBook very happily before I got my superdrive iMac...

Burn projects to video_ts folders or ISO images. Transfer them to a Mac or PC with a DVD burner and you're on your way. Or, now that iLife supports third party burners, just use an external Firewire USB burner that can be connected to the iMac at will...

B

steve_hill4
Jul 5, 2006, 04:59 PM
Apple's press release mentions iDVD without noting that the education iMac can't burn DVDs. They mention iDVD because it's part of iLife '06, so anybody paying half attention will no that iDVD won't be very useful.

Since our school's education store doesn't yet have this model, I can't tell for sure yet if you can order it with a Superdrive. The press release implies that you can't by mentioning only other upgrade options (RAM, disk, iWork).
Like our website, offering DVD Studio Pro with the combo drive MacBook.
http://www.johnlewis.com/Computing/Computers/+Computers+/Laptops/230397328/Product.aspx
I think actually judging by the price it should be Final Cut Studio, (why anyway with the combo MacBook). I still rang them up earlier and pointed out the problem, but obviously not changed just yet.

brepublican
Jul 5, 2006, 05:03 PM
Very nice. Great marketing for Apple, and it should definitely sell well

boncellis
Jul 5, 2006, 05:06 PM
...Yes people speed and yes people commit minor fraud like the above but doing so is illegal and amoral to some degree (depending on your moral standards and relativism).

I think you mean immoral as opposed to amoral. An immoral act is one that goes against the morality of an individual or society, whereas something or someone that is amoral is without moral persuasion altogether.

Btw shawnce, I think you're awesome.

celebrian23
Jul 5, 2006, 05:15 PM
I quite frankly don't understand how anyone could think there's nothing wrong with stealing. I don't care if you're stealing from someone who only has a dollar or someone who has 90 billion big ones- it's still wrong.

Eidorian
Jul 5, 2006, 05:18 PM
I might get an educational iMac for myself and then "sell" it to my brother when I get a MacBook Pro. That or if I want to buy another iMac, I'll get it through the department.

50548
Jul 5, 2006, 05:21 PM
Faulty logic.

Apple is selling these system at educational pricing which has much narrower margins then the consumer pricing. The intent is to benefit students and institutions by giving them a lower price (and of course attempt to push their products in this market segment)... in other words Apple is gifting a part of their profits to this specific market (as defined by Apple in their purchase agreement, which you have to agree with before you can purchase). If someone from outside this specific market purchases such a system you are benefitting from this gift when you should not be (you are or someone on your behalf is fraudulently stating you are a member of this market segment). In other words you are pocketing a gift meant for others.

Yes people speed and yes people commit minor fraud like the above but doing so is illegal and amoral to some degree (depending on your moral standards and relativism).

Apple's purchase agreement...

Sorry, Shaunce, but the excerpts you've just showed prove exactly the opposite...in order for you to enjoy the benefits, you MUST be a member of the EDU community...and when you use that privilege, you forfeit yourself the possibility of buying other products on a certain timeframe.

Therefore, there is no fraud AT ALL if someone you know wishes to "spend" his/her EDU quota for the benefit of another person. Apple is certainly aware of that in its business plan, and has established such a limit to avoid abusive practices.

You HAVE to show yourself (signing a term or giving a copy of your ID) when buying something for EDU purposes, and you are NOT able to buy more than one product a year (as per your post above), so the main condition is perfectly fulfilled...you ARE an EDU-eligible person purchasing an Apple product...period. It would have been illegal only if Apple had decided for a sort of "reversed first sale doctrine", forbidding people from selling or giving out the products they purchase in the first place...which would have been legally absurd anyway.

pilky
Jul 5, 2006, 05:28 PM
Why are the laptops still faster than the iMac?

The only laptops which are faster than the iMac are the MBPs which are meant to be faster as they are for professionals. I expect to see the iMac jump up a sometime before the end of the summer

As to those questioning the iSight, have you considered that it might be cheaper to include the iSight than to manufacture cases without them?

shawnce
Jul 5, 2006, 06:13 PM
Sorry, Shaunce, but the excerpts you've just showed prove exactly the opposite...in order for you to enjoy the benefits, you MUST be a member of the EDU community...and when you use that privilege, you forfeit yourself the possibility of buying other products on a certain timeframe.

Therefore, there is no fraud AT ALL if someone you know wishes to "spend" his/her EDU quota for the benefit of another person. Apple is certainly aware of that in its business plan, and has established such a limit to avoid abusive practices.

You miss the following...?

"Statement of Eligibility - I represent that I am a member of one of the defined groups above eligible to purchase and that the products being purchased direct from Apple Computer, Inc. are for my own personal, education, and/or research use."

If you are purchasing it for someone else it isn't for your own personal use is it now... which was my point. The purchase limits exist to reduce the purchase then later sell type behavior but if you purchase the system on behalf of someone not eligible you are committing fraud (you purchased it never having the intent of using it yourself).

Doctor Q
Jul 5, 2006, 06:25 PM
:confused: Sure it can. I was using iDVD on my Combo drive iBook very happily before I got my superdrive iMac...

Burn projects to video_ts folders or ISO images. Transfer them to a Mac or PC with a DVD burner and you're on your way. Or, now that iLife supports third party burners, just use an external Firewire USB burner that can be connected to the iMac at will...I see. Thanks. So iDVD isn't useless as I thought, just less convenient to use. At our school, we could use this workaround if the teacher had one Superdrive-equipped Mac and students transferred files as you suggest.

monke
Jul 5, 2006, 06:41 PM
I see. Thanks. So iDVD isn't useless as I thought, just less convenient to use. At our school, we could use this workaround if the teacher had one Superdrive-equipped Mac and students transferred files as you suggest.

That would work. It is just alot easier having a computer with Superdrive, rather than transferring files between multiple computers. But in your scenario you don't have the choice.

whee900
Jul 5, 2006, 06:57 PM
This thing will be great for education; tasks like word processing, internet research, etc will run well even on this. But there remains to be a couple of minor problems with using an iMac for education:
1. Many will find it necessary to poke the screen!!!!!, which personally annoys me a lot.
2. The Mighty Mouse will need new batteries, and when you have 50 iMacs in a room, 100 AA batteries is a lot to put in.
3. Durability is an issue. Less immature children may damage the hinge on the aluminum stand (which seems easy to do), and poke the screen. Abuse of the computer is common in classrooms, and the camera can be used in an inappropriate manner as well.
4. iMacs, though stable in regular use, can tip over in an earthquake. 50 iMacs tipping over will not be very pretty.

Ultimately, the good side overcomes the bad side of using this computer.

And to all of you planning to rip Apple off: don't do it! If you have any sense of morality, then you won't.

GregA
Jul 5, 2006, 06:58 PM
As for the educational Mac, I think cost reduction is the most important factor. Leaving out the SuperDrive, Front Row remote (ofcourse, it would have been stolen anyway...) and the X1600 card makes this Mac superb for schools.

Thumbs up on this!
:)I agree it looks good.

I'm wondering about the Bluetooth removal though. Their target audience are probably the sort of people to play with the features of their mobile phones, and I'm sure that phones could be used as remotes for FrontRow, which would be a great work around.

Also, I'm wondering how this plays on rumours of a wireless iPod. IF there is one in the works, Apple wouldn't be removing connectivity to it in new products. Does the iMac come with Airport?

thogs_cave
Jul 5, 2006, 07:02 PM
I see. Thanks. So iDVD isn't useless as I thought, just less convenient to use. At our school, we could use this workaround if the teacher had one Superdrive-equipped Mac and students transferred files as you suggest.

Or, a portable DVD burner that could be connected for the final burn. Actually, that sounds like a good idea.

Eidorian
Jul 5, 2006, 07:03 PM
Does the iMac come with Airport?Yes, it comes with an Airport Extreme.

Specifications

512MB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x256
24x Combo Drive (DVD-ROM, CD-RW)
Accessory kit
Keyboard & Mighty Mouse + Mac OS X - U.S. English
80GB Serial ATA drive
17-inch widescreen LCD
1.83GHz Intel Core Duo
AirPort Extreme

No Superdrive option or Bluetooth.

thogs_cave
Jul 5, 2006, 07:04 PM
I'm wondering about the Bluetooth removal though. Their target audience are probably the sort of people to play with the features of their mobile phones, and I'm sure that phones could be used as remotes for FrontRow, which would be a great work around.

I would imagine that Bluetooth would be a nightmare in a school environment. I'd be nervous having it in a computer lab.... :eek:

balamw
Jul 5, 2006, 07:05 PM
1. Many will find it necessary to poke the screen!!!!!, which personally annoys me a lot.

Me too, and both my kids have been trained to not poke the iMac.

FWIW, my wife noticed that computer lab at our son's new elementary school was predominantly populated with iMac G5s (pre-iSight) and they had placed a plexiglas-like box around each of them, presumably to protect the LCD from poking fingers... I have yet to see this myself.

B

gekko513
Jul 5, 2006, 07:08 PM
I agree with the screen poking problem, but the inappropriiate use of the camera shouldn't be an issue. All the kids have mobiles with a camera, anyway.

balamw
Jul 5, 2006, 07:11 PM
Or, a portable DVD burner that could be connected for the final burn. Actually, that sounds like a good idea.
Yeah, I mentioned that too. Good thing iLife 06 doesn't require the built in superdrive anymore...

Keep in mind also that these machines only have internal 80 GB drives themselves so you wouldn't be able to put too many DVD projects on them anyhow, so you'd want either a server with more storage space, or to use an external HDD...

B

Doctor Q
Jul 5, 2006, 07:15 PM
Many will find it necessary to poke the screen!!!!!, which personally annoys me a lot.Even businesspeople do that. :(

Less immature children may damage the hinge on the aluminum stand (which seems easy to do), and poke the screen. Abuse of the computer is common in classrooms, and the camera can be used in an inappropriate manner as well.The camera provides the problem AND the solution! Set the cameras to watch what the kids do. When they harm equipment, send their parents a copy of the video along with the repair bill. And automatically make extra copies of any photos they take, to e-mail to the principal's office when they get caught! :D

Edit: An afterthought - Having kids learn NOT to poke screens at school might eventually stop the problem that adults poke screens, because the kids will grow up having already learned that lesson!

Chundles
Jul 5, 2006, 07:17 PM
Or does it? It's not listed on the front page but it is listed underneath the price in the top right. Hmmm.....

Front Page:
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/6466/picture25bh.png

Inside:
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/6761/picture15cp.png

Vehry Eeeenterestinnngggg.....

Eidorian
Jul 5, 2006, 07:19 PM
Or does it? It's not listed on the front page but it is listed underneath the price in the top right. Hmmm.....


Vehry Eeeenterestinnngggg.....Wow, that is very interesting. :eek:

Chundles
Jul 5, 2006, 07:26 PM
Wow, that is very interesting. :eek:

I think it's just a stuff-up, it's not listed on the specs page either. It'll probably be fixed soon.

coffey7
Jul 5, 2006, 07:28 PM
My Mom works at a school but is not a teacher can she buy one?

Fiveos22
Jul 5, 2006, 07:54 PM
sweeet :)
all these people are gonna have a heart attack for the shared memory though

I can't feel the shared memory "problem" in my Macbook... of course that is after I dropped an extra gig of RAM in it.

CHROMEDOME
Jul 5, 2006, 08:05 PM
My Mom works at a school but is not a teacher can she buy one?

I don't even go to any school and I can buy one....not saying its right or I'm going too, but sure.

generik
Jul 5, 2006, 08:09 PM
Do you have no morals? Since when was fraud an acceptable thing? I don't know about your state, but its certainly illegal here. It makes life a bit easier for students, if it was widely abused I have no doubt that Apple would remove it or push up the price points - They are after all, a business, not a charity.


Who said anything about fraud?

What's next? Not showing up to work is considered AWOL? A chargeable offense? It is apple's responsibility to check on customer eligibility before they ship said product, sorry, but the way I see it, trusting a customer's "morals" to protect your business's bottom line is pure negligence.

MattyMac
Jul 5, 2006, 08:10 PM
My Mom works at a school but is not a teacher can she buy one?
I think so...if you read the fine print on apple's site, it tells you who is eligible...faculty, staff, PTA, etc.

WildCowboy
Jul 5, 2006, 08:16 PM
. . .sorry, but the way I see it, trusting a customer's "morals" to protect your business's bottom line is pure negligence.

So as long as a store's video surveillance system isn't good enough to catch you, it's okay to shoplift? :confused:

KingYaba
Jul 5, 2006, 08:18 PM
I'm willing to bet you'll find these new "educational iMacs" on ebay in the really really near future. Let's say like in a week or less. Let someone else commit the fraud...

Doctor Q
Jul 5, 2006, 08:18 PM
Can somebody help me with my research? How would prices compare if I bought a Windows PC from a well-known PC vendor, equipped to match the specs of this new iMac for Education, including camera, speakers, Wifi, keyboard, mouse, Windows instead of Mac OS X, and the equivalent of the iLife applications?

shawnce
Jul 5, 2006, 08:20 PM
17-inch iMac for Education Developer Note

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/HardwareDrivers/Conceptual/iMac_17inchEdu/Art/060505001316_01.jpg (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/HardwareDrivers/Conceptual/iMac_17inchEdu/Articles/M50_arch.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40004369)

...and for comparison...

iMac Developer Note

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/HardwareDrivers/Conceptual/iMac_06Jan/Art/051183001314_01.jpg (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/HardwareDrivers/Conceptual/iMac_06Jan/Articles/iMac_0601_archi.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40004538)

Eidorian
Jul 5, 2006, 08:25 PM
Can somebody help me with my research? How would prices compare if I bought a Windows PC from a well-known PC vendor, equipped to match the specs of this new iMac for Education, including camera, speakers, Wifi, keyboard, mouse, Windows instead of Mac OS X, and the equivalent of the iLife applications?Yeah, that's not happening even with Dell. I went over this when the Core Duo mini was released.

runninmac
Jul 5, 2006, 08:41 PM
2. The Mighty Mouse will need new batteries, and when you have 50 iMacs in a room, 100 AA batteries is a lot to put in.


Um, unless im missing something the Mighty Mouse is powered by USB.

Chundles
Jul 5, 2006, 08:47 PM
2. The Mighty Mouse will need new batteries, and when you have 50 iMacs in a room, 100 AA batteries is a lot to put in.


Er yeah, that's incorrect. The Mighty Mouse is wired, it draws power from the USB port. There are no batteries in a Mighty Mouse.

shawnce
Jul 5, 2006, 08:49 PM
Um, unless im missing something the Mighty Mouse is powered by USB.

Yup it is USB powered... I guess whee900 got confused and thought they are the Apple wireless mouse.

illegalprelude
Jul 5, 2006, 08:57 PM
There's no question that Apple's going to have to change something with the Mini (whether it be features or price) in the coming months (prior to Christmas), as it is an awful deal when looked at comparitively.

Both the Mini and the edu-iMac have similar ram and graphics capability...and at least the mini comes with a remote...but the monitor on the iMac is gorgeous, and worth about 200+ in my mind...

Does anyone else think that this low-low price has anything to do with the recent Intel reductions in its prices???

I couldnt agree more. When the units were $499 and $599, i thought of getting one for the hell of it but when each was jacked up by $100, killed the idea super fast

sushi
Jul 5, 2006, 08:59 PM
2. The Mighty Mouse will need new batteries, and when you have 50 iMacs in a room, 100 AA batteries is a lot to put in.
Huh?

MM does not need batteries.

Les Kern
Jul 5, 2006, 09:01 PM
Smaller Hard Drive - 80GB vs 160GB
No Bluetooth
No Apple Remote
Combo Drive
Integrated Video Card

Smaller Hard Drive - 80GB vs 160GB : So? I use Open Directory/Workgroup Manager. Local drives are pretty unimportant.
No Bluetooth - So? My students will not be syncing palms or have wireless keyboards/mice.
No Apple Remote - So? They are not in school to idle the hours away playing music they are not allowed to have in their home directories anyway.
Combo Drive - Hmmm... We DO make a lot of Multi-media stuff. But that's only in a 3 of the labs. Maybe an upgrade here.
Integrated Video Card - Hmmm... Not a huge issue for what we do... and I can always outfit the MM labs with better units.

So all-in-all this is PERFECT for MCHS. I'm looking to replace about 300 of the old iMacs in modulars, classrooms, some Pearson testing rooms, and the like. And I get to save the taxpayer a HEAP of money in a volume purchase.
Thanks Apple. See you next year with a cool mil in my hand!

WildCowboy
Jul 5, 2006, 09:03 PM
Combo Drive - Hmmm... We DO make a lot of Multi-media stuff. But that's only in a 3 of the labs. Maybe an upgrade here.

FYI, you can't upgrade the EDU model to a SuperDrive.

Les Kern
Jul 5, 2006, 09:05 PM
Huh?

MM does not need batteries.

I THINK he means the wireless Apple mouse... which is a single button of course.
But he DOES have a point. Keyboards and mice of the wireless kind in EDU is a COLLOSAL waste of dough. Anyone who does that should be canned. My job as a tech director is to manage the taxpayers money. If I start buying crap that has another, cheaper solution, the board is welcome to can ME.

andrewag
Jul 5, 2006, 09:21 PM
Great move Apple. The eMac was way too dated to be of any use these days.

The integrated graphics shouldn't be a problem for most and I am very pleased they stuck with the dual core processor.

Eidorian
Jul 5, 2006, 09:22 PM
FYI, you can't upgrade the EDU model to a SuperDrive.You can buy the full blown iMac then for your SuperDrive labs. That or just get external burners. *shrug*

Demoman
Jul 5, 2006, 09:39 PM
Actually, while this might be generally true, I wouldn't push my luck. Apple has some legal notes in the fine print when you place an edu. store order which, among other things, state that your claim of educational status is subject to future verification after the initial purchase. And further, if they do one of these "audits" and find you falsely claimed eduational status to obtain a discount, you're subject to being billed the difference in price between what you paid and the retail price for the item(s).

Beside, just because our government, and major corporations are full of liars and cheats, it does not mean we have to follow their example!

aquanutz
Jul 5, 2006, 10:59 PM
I want one. :-( too bad i'm poor.

thogs_cave
Jul 6, 2006, 12:10 AM
Keep in mind also that these machines only have internal 80 GB drives themselves so you wouldn't be able to put too many DVD projects on them anyhow, so you'd want either a server with more storage space, or to use an external HDD...

Wow, it's still hard to think of 80G as small.

For that matter, since they have gigabit, the school could (assuming they have the infrastructure) just have a central file server for student projects. That would also allow logins on any Mac to work on your project.

bobber205
Jul 6, 2006, 12:14 AM
For real dvd authoring, my school and I would think others would use a G5.

Silentwave
Jul 6, 2006, 01:06 AM
Wow, it's still hard to think of 80G as small.

For that matter, since they have gigabit, the school could (assuming they have the infrastructure) just have a central file server for student projects. That would also allow logins on any Mac to work on your project.

My school has had that for years even with 10mbit and 100mbit. Works well, even though we're on wintel and not mactel. In practical school cases I would think most machines are on a server with the students' logins and/or files stored on a network linked drive.

whenders0n
Jul 6, 2006, 01:10 AM
Buy the $899 iMac with an iPod Nano, get $179 back and sell the iPod for $200ish on ebay. crazy cheap...

WildCowboy
Jul 6, 2006, 01:13 AM
Buy the $899 iMac with an iPod Nano, get $179 back and sell the iPod for $200ish on ebay. crazy cheap...

The free nano offer isn't good on that iMac model.

whenders0n
Jul 6, 2006, 01:16 AM
I take that back, then. here's the official word:
Note: The entry iMac 17-inch 1.83GHz Intel Core Duo with Combo Drive (part number MA406LL/A) and any configure-to-order version of this product are not eligible for this offer.

from:
http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/bts/bts_faq.html

wmmk
Jul 6, 2006, 01:20 AM
a thought just popped into my head:
what happens if you buy this as a student or teacher then graduate or retire?

WildCowboy
Jul 6, 2006, 01:22 AM
a thought just popped into my head:
what happens if you buy this as a student or teacher then graduate or retire?

That's fine...as long as you meet the eligibility requirements at the time of purchase...

ezekielrage_99
Jul 6, 2006, 01:44 AM
About time they revamped the "eMac", it was a great valued product for schools and students on a budget. I wouldn't mind one of these iMacs for the prices they seem the have reasonable specs and features for the price.

sushi
Jul 6, 2006, 04:26 AM
Combo Drive - Hmmm... We DO make a lot of Multi-media stuff. But that's only in a 3 of the labs. Maybe an upgrade here.
Maybe put the regular iMac in these labs.

Superdrive, bigger HD and video card would be worth the price difference I would think.

Also, I would assume that you will upgrade the memory for the Multi-media labs. The regular iMac has a slot open where as the edu iMac does not so that would save a bit on the memory upgrade.

rdowns
Jul 6, 2006, 04:30 AM
How to Get your Free iPod nano.
1. Buy a Mac.
Buy a new MacBook, MacBook Pro, iMac with SuperDrive, or Power Mac G5.

Gasu E.
Jul 6, 2006, 07:56 AM
I think this is a geat deal but something does worry me...If this is suppose to be for education, I just hope the schools that buy them remember to buy extra ram for Microsoft Office.

It's sad if any schools feel the need to buy Microsoft Office. It is absolute overkill for students (unless it is a trade school training people to use Microsoft Office).

sushi
Jul 6, 2006, 08:38 AM
It's sad if any schools feel the need to buy Microsoft Office. It is absolute overkill for students (unless it is a trade school training people to use Microsoft Office).
Unfortunately, whether we like it or not, Microsoft Office is the business standard. And it allows compatability with Windows computers.

Personally, we can use whatever we want. But for compatability with Microsoft Office for Windows you need to have the Mac version.

As for needing extra RAM to run Microsoft Office that is debatable. More RAM is always better. However, Office 2004 seems to run fine with 512MB of RAM.

FWIW, the license fee for Microsoft Office for the Mac is very reasonable (Regular or Professional).

Eidorian
Jul 6, 2006, 08:42 AM
I honestly find the OS X version of Office to be a good program. It seems like Microsoft put some polish and thought into it. I'm much more productive in it when compared to the Windows version.