Bush to Larry King: Ken Lay a "Good Guy"

[mactastic]

KING: The death of Ken Lay.

G. BUSH: Yes, yes.

KING: I know he was your friend. How do you feel? Were you shocked?

G. BUSH: I was. I was very surprised. You know, just -- my hope is that his heart was right with the Lord, and I feel real sorry for his wife. She's had a rough go, and she's now here on earth to bear the burdens of losing her husband, a man she loved.

KING: Was that whole thing, the whole Enron story shocking to you?

G. BUSH: Yes, yes.

KING: Because, I mean, you knew him pretty well from Texas, right?

G. BUSH: Pretty well, pretty well. I knew him. I got to know him. This -- people don't believe this, but he actually supported Ann Richards in the '94 campaign.

KING: She told me that.

G. BUSH: She did?

KING: She liked him a lot.

G. BUSH: Yes, he's a good guy. And so what I did -- then did was we had a business council, and I kept him on as the chairman of the business council. And, you know, got to know him and got to see him in action.

One of the things I respected him for was he was such a contributor to Houston's civil society. He was a generous person. I'm disappointed that there was this -- he betrayed the trust of shareholders, but...

KING: Did you know him well, Mrs. Bush?

L. BUSH: I knew him. Not really well, but I did know him.

KING: Did you know his wife?

L. BUSH: And I know Linda and I'm sorry for her.

KING: Did you contact her?

L. BUSH: I haven't.

G. BUSH: I haven't yet. I'm going to write her a letter at some point in time.

Glad to know Bush thinks the guy behind the Enron fiasco is a good guy. I wonder what you have to do (besides be a Democrat NOT named Lieberman) to get Bush to think you're not a good guy...

Link'd (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0607/06/lkl.01.html)

[zimv20]

I wonder what you have to do (besides be a Democrat NOT named Lieberman) to get Bush to think you're not a good guy...
i suspect anyone who practices pure capitalism -- free from oversight and ruthless -- will be an okay guy by bush.

an unused resource is a wasted resource, right?

[Sun Baked]

As people are now dragging up a similar situation that crashed Enron, one a couple years after the merger in the mid 80s.

Ken Lay just happened to do everything he could to save the company from rouge traders/entities, just happened to include coverups and lying to everyone -- just long long enough to prevent a run on the bank.

Problem was a decade later, he couldn't lie his way through it.

[mactastic]

i suspect anyone who practices pure capitalism -- free from oversight and ruthless -- will be an okay guy by bush.

an unused resource is a wasted resource, right?
Well, he thinks Putin is a good guy too, and we know how ruthless that guy is...

[iGary]

I wonder what you have to do (besides be a Democrat NOT named Lieberman) to get Bush to think you're not a good guy...

Be a gay.

[mactastic]

Be a gay.
True.
Or an atheist, if he's anything like his dad.

[iGary]

True.
Or an atheist, if he's anything like his dad.

I was going to say "Jesus Hater," but you know...

[rdowns]

Someone at work today shared this. He was at a birthday party last night and the bday boy was quite drunk. Was trying to get someone to film him burning a flag while kissing a guy. Wanted to share something with Bush besides his birthday.

[yg17]

I was going to say "Jesus Hater," but you know...

Yeah, if you ask the religious right, they're synonomous now.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Good guys allways screw people out of thousands,millions. George & Ken Lay anyone shocked? Our President had a pardon waiting for this guy. Anyone get the feeling the American people are for the taking.

[tristan]

i suspect anyone who practices pure capitalism -- free from oversight and ruthless -- will be an okay guy by bush.


Ken Lay wasn't a capitalist. He was a crook who defrauded his stockholders and lenders. There are thousands of CEOs of thousands of public companies, don't drag them all down to Ken Lay's level.

I think this thread is a cheap shot - Bush also says that Lay betrayed his shareholder's trust, which is an accurate description of events. The guy died, it doesn't hurt to find something decent to say.

[zimv20]

Ken Lay wasn't a capitalist. He was a crook who defrauded his stockholders and lenders.
i'm talking about the kind of capitalism where all's fair, including fraud, raping "worker ants" of everything they've got, and relying on gov't collusion to get away with it.

you'll find no sympathy from me.

[Dont Hurt Me]

i'm talking about the kind of capitalism where all's fair, including fraud, raping "worker ants" of everything they've got, and relying on gov't collusion to get away with it.

you'll find no sympathy from me.Like Apple in China?

[zimv20]

Like Apple in China?
don't know, actually. is there something i can look at?

[FFTT]

I suppose George Bush still believes in honor among thieves

[mactastic]

I think this thread is a cheap shot - Bush also says that Lay betrayed his shareholder's trust, which is an accurate description of events. The guy died, it doesn't hurt to find something decent to say.
Well, where are your accolades for al-Zarqawi then? Will you find something decent to say about bin Laden when he passes?

This thread isn't a cheap shot, it's about Bush being unable to unequivocably say that what Lay did was bad. He sees no shades of grey when it comes to his opponents, or people like Saddam, but get him talking about "Kenny Boy" and suddenly it's all about the shades of grey...

[leekohler]

Ken Lay wasn't a capitalist. He was a crook who defrauded his stockholders and lenders. There are thousands of CEOs of thousands of public companies, don't drag them all down to Ken Lay's level.

I think this thread is a cheap shot - Bush also says that Lay betrayed his shareholder's trust, which is an accurate description of events. The guy died, it doesn't hurt to find something decent to say.

Sorry but- Ken Lay was an a**hole. He was the lowest form of scum on the planet an you think we should feel bad he died? :confused:

[Desertrat]

A bio on Lay said he started out from a poor family. IIRC, he finally got an accounting degree. Fell in with folks who built up Enron and got rich; spent a ton of money on charities and public stuff in Houston.

Somehow, the decision was made at Enron to invest in derivatives; they bet wrong, just like the guy at Barclay's bank or the Nobel Laureates at LTCM. Oops! And that's when the top management of Enron all went to squirming and lying, trying to save the company. Sure, save themselves, but the company was the Big Deal of their lives.

Lots of folks are honest as the day is long, while things are okay financially. If they get in over their heads, all you can do is hope they don't owe you money. Self-preservation is the #1 priority and everything else is in last place.

So if you've ever gone without in order to pay off a debt that someone's chicanery cost you, you have a real right to bitch. Otherwise, be a little thoughtful--you might just get yourownself in a jam someday.

None of which means that I'd invite a Ken Lay to my house for supper.

:), 'Rat

[leekohler]

e.So if you've ever gone without in order to pay off a debt that someone's chicanery cost you, you have a real right to bitch. Otherwise, be a little thoughtful--you might just get yourownself in a jam someday.


:), 'Rat

Huh? When you get yourself in a jam, you admit it and ask for help no matter how embarrassing the situation. Lying and fraud are not the way to go. They just make any situation worse.

[ham_man]

Really? That's what ya'll think he was saying? What I got out of it was Bush basically said, "The Ken Lay I knew was a good guy. I just can't believe he would do something like this..."

:confused:

[Queso]

Well, he thinks Putin is a good guy too, and we know how ruthless that guy is...
Putin is a necessary bastard. Until Russia matures into a stable entity, no-one else can hold it together. He's Russia's General Tito.

[mactastic]

Sorry, "he's" is a contraction for "he is", not "he was".

[ham_man]

Sorry, "he's" is a contraction for "he is", not "he was".
Well, considering he was living and is now dead, I figured "was" would be the proper verb...

[IJ Reilly]

None of which means that I'd invite a Ken Lay to my house for supper.

Not especially now, though I suppose you could serve anything and it wouldn't matter.

[mischief]

Not especially now, though I suppose you could serve anything and it wouldn't matter.

Soylent Green?

:confused: :eek: ;) :D

[Queso]

Soylent Green?

:confused: :eek: ;) :D
Laying the table for dinner :D

[tristan]

I agree with 'Rat - I think Lay was probably a "good guy" who didn't understand the complexity of the business and got in way over his head and then started trying to cover his losses while things hopefully turned around. (Which they didn't at all.) Skilling was more manipulative - he was CEO for the worst of it and much smarter and most likely knew that the company was a house of cards. Andy Fastow, the CEO, was an outright crook and embezzeler.

So Lay comes off as the best of the bunch in my opinion. Still, he had important oversight responsibilities that he didn't fulfill and there need to be consequences. I think Lay would have made a good audit partner at a big Five. Enron CEO was just too ambitious for him, and rather than rise to the occasion or admit that he couldn't handle it, he just tried to ride the wave and cover up the problems.

[Desertrat]

leekohler, you're absolutely correct. Howsomever, that's rarely what anybody does. Wiggle, squirm, twist, run and hide.

tristan, that's what bothers me about this whole derivatives thing. I've read that there's some $80 trillion "out there". Wrong bets, a la Enron, and a lot more people lose jobs and retirement.

"...tried to ride the wave and cover up the problems."

Sounds a lot like Congress, these last forty-some years.

'Rat

[leekohler]

leekohler, you're absolutely correct. Howsomever, that's rarely what anybody does. Wiggle, squirm, twist, run and hide.
'Rat

And look what happens. Better to be honest about your failings. That way people still have some measure of respect for you due to your honesty. Many times, that will even save a situation. Trust me, I've been in plenty of tight spots in my business. It's far better to come out and say what's not working EVEN IF IT'S YOUR FAULT. Discuss the mistakes and then figure out how to fix it. Lack of trust is one of the things killing this country. People think that if they are even perceived as screwing up once, everyone will think they're weak. Not true- strength lies in trust, teamwork and having the balls to admit you ********* up. THAT is how you earn respect and allegiance.

[tristan]

tristan, that's what bothers me about this whole derivatives thing. I've read that there's some $80 trillion "out there". Wrong bets, a la Enron, and a lot more people lose jobs and retirement.


A lot of the derivative risk is overstated IMO - people throw out huge numbers of the "derivative market", but that includes, for example, the entire options market, currency swaps, interest rate swaps, etc, all perfectly reasonable uses of derivatives. Also a $1B fixed-floating swap sounds like a lot of money, but the payments are relatively small so not many dollars are really changing hands.

I think there's more risk in the long bond market because people think a US Treasury is "safe" and next thing you know it's lost 40% in real terms because interest rates are up and the dollar is down. Same with residential and commercial real estate under somewhat different circumstances.

I know, I know, LTCM, Barings Bank, California Energy trading, etc but those losses are dwarfed by the $8T lost in the two years after the dot com bubble. (Remember when Infospace was worth more than Boeing?) And I think the financial industry learned something from the previous mismanagement of derivatives trading. Maybe the unsophisticated investors still don't get it, but they don't have as much money and would probably lose it all another way if they did - trading Ethanol or something dumb like that.

That raises another interesting point - the financial system does almost nothing to protect investors against buying inflated assets. You have some legal recourse if the assets were fraudently inflated, but good luck getting your money back, it just means the fraudsters will find it much harder to profit and may go to jail. But noone's going to reimburse you for those Iridium shares you bought when the stock was trading at $70 -the market doesn't and shouldn't work that way. There is no safe investment any more except maybe the 90-day US treasury, which pays about 4.8% now, perhaps 1% more than inflation.

Still I am concerned about one thing regarding derivatives - the GSEs, Freddie & Fannie. How sophisticated are they really? Every day they go head to head in the markets with the quants at Goldman, Citibank, etc. How often do you think they come out a winner? :eek: Scary thought.

[zimv20]

There is no safe investment any more except maybe the 90-day US treasury, which pays about 4.8% now.
are you saying that being long in stocks is not safe?

[tristan]

By safety I'm referring to short and medium term principal protection. Stocks are fine if you diversify, but you still have to mentally prepare yourself for bad months where even your well diversified portfolio will lose 10% because a Fed Chairman was extra gloomy and Iran decided it needed a nuke. If you don't want those short term swings, then you're stuck with short term bonds.

For the long-term the situation is almost reversed - over a 25 year period, a well diversified portfolio stock with reinvested dividends is practically a sure thing and a short-term bond isn't much better than burying your cash in the backyard. Real estate kind of falls in the middle.

Single stocks are incredibly risky and people massively understate the risk. 10 years ago did anyone think that MCI would be bankrupt and AT&T would be purchased for pennies on the dollar by a baby bell? Enron was at one time the 9th largest company in the US, by market value, right after it announced it was getting into broadband trading and would generate $280m a year by 2001 in that business, which it would then spin off into a separate $21B company. The street ate it up - but in fact, Enron never made a dime on broadband and never even had the capability to trade in that way.

[zimv20]

over a 25 year period, a well diversified portfolio stock with reinvested dividends is practically a sure thing
just wanted to make sure we were still on the same page...

[solvs]

A bio on Lay said he started out from a poor family. IIRC, he finally got an accounting degree. Fell in with folks who built up Enron and got rich
That's the point I made in another thread. It all went wrong from there. I'm sure a lot of his friends feel sorry for him, wasted potential and all, but he still did what he did. The fact that he's dead doesn't change that. To the dead we owe nothing but the truth. Not saying I'm happy he's dead, I try not to wish ill will on anyone, but he helped ruin the lives of a lot of people.

Considering everything Bush has done, not expecting him to start talking smack about him, but he did seem to defend him a lot more than he should have.

[zimv20]

perhaps some conspiracy theororists can chime in about this (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/4042707.html):

Reports: British banker found dead

LONDON — A British banker who was questioned by U.S. authorities in connection with the Enron scandal has been found dead, British media said Wednesday. The man's body was found Tuesday in a park in east London, but police declined to identify him.

The Royal Bank of Scotland, however, sent condolences to the family of Neil Coulbeck, one of the bank's senior employees who had been questioned by the FBI in the case of three British bankers facing Enron-related fraud charges. The British Broadcasting Corp. and other media outlets also identified the man as Coulbeck, 53.

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