an Open Letter to Steve Jobs

[Jeff Williams]

Mr. Jobs,

I am a long-time Apple customer, writing you regarding my purchase of (and ensuing problems with) an Apple Titanium PowerBook.

I originally purchased this computer on August 30, 2001. My home office had been burglarized, and my PowerBook G3 (Pismo) had been stolen.

The PowerBook G4 I purchased was defective out of the box with a malfunctioning power manager module.

Apple REPLACED that PowerBook on October 6 of 2001 with a new unit.

Between October 2001 and August 2002, my PowerBook received warranty repair three times. The CD-ROM drive failed, the hard drive failed, and several other components proved to be defective.

Apple REPLACED that PowerBook on August 28 of 2002 with a new unit.

The PowerBook G4 replacement was defective out of the box with some kind of ground fault issue, the speakers buzzed and provided distorted playback audio.

Apple REPLACED that PowerBook on October 7 of 2002 with a new unit.

Approximately four weeks ago, this Titanium PowerBook also began experiencing technical problems. The combo drive failed, and then apparently so did the logic board. It was returned to Apple for warranty repair, where those items, and OEM memory were replaced. I was assured that before being returned to me, that this computer would be THOROUGHLY tested, to avoid any future problems, and hopefully end this chain or apparent bad luck.

Unfortunately, that did not happen.

When I received the computer from warranty repair, the Target Disk Mode (TDM) did not function properly. This problem was remedied by a clean install of system software, but the bottom line is that the computer was not appropriately tested, if it had been, this problem would have been discovered easily.

Secondly (and most important) it appears that during installation the antenna lead for my AirPort card was pinched between the two halves of the case. This problem also exhibited itself immediately – as intermittent AirPort reception. I also believe that had the unit been properly tested, this issue would have been discovered prior to shipping.

In order to avoid any potential voiding of my warranty, I brought my PowerBook to the computer service center at the University of Idaho Bookstore in Moscow, ID, where it was inspected by Apple-certified technicians.

Also, during this visit the tech inadvertently scratched the computer case. A minor annoyance at best, unless compounded with the frustrations of the past 18 months.

I have been working on this ongoing issue with Robin Roberts of Apple Executive Relations since late August of last year. The last time major components of this computer failed and required warranty service, I requested that instead of a warranty repair, I would prefer that Apple either refund my purchase price or allow me to use that amount of credit towards the purchase of a new computer. Frankly, regardless of the overall consumer satisfaction rate of the line, I have lost complete confidence in this product and regardless of outcome, I no longer am interested in owning an Apple Titanium PowerBook.

I am not asking for the replacement of my additional battery, custom case, or any of the additional peripherals that would not work with a new model PowerBook. Nor am I motivated by the desire for a computer upgrade. You will note that the August 28 replacement increased the speed of my machine and included a combo drive, I never requested this upgrade, although I certainly appreciated it. However, in the long run, what I am most interested in is a computer that works reliably, and does not have to be repeatedly returned to Apple for warranty service.

Of course, this request was subsequently denied.

I am therefore, asking again.

I do not believe this is an unreasonable request. Case in point, I have been told by no fewer than a dozen Apple employees and certified technicians - that for any one person to have the amount of difficulties I have had with what is otherwise an extremely reliable product is unheard of.

However, regardless of the norm, this is the situation I have been dealt. Because of the current economy and my employment situation, I do not have the financial ability to simply replace this computer. Even if I did, I still feel that Apple should bear the brunt of responsibility in this matter, as I spent over three thousand dollars for a computer that has never functioned reliably for as little as 11 consecutive months.

I would really appreciate it if your company would do the right thing, and help me resolve this situation once and for all.


Sincerely,
Jeff Williams
jeff@williamsdesign.com


Hardcore mac addict, enthusiast and evangelist since 1984, Apple IIe user before that.

[iGav]

I kind of know how you feel, it took apple 3 attempts to provide me with a quality PowerBook 1GHz that didn't have any kind of glaring fault over December to Jan this year!!

The first one had an iffy graphics card, the second one they sent out had a 1 and half inch scratch on the lid, the lid didn't always catch properly and it suffered from really bad screen interference after an hours worth of use when touching the machine. The 3rd one they sent me, touch wood seems fine!!!

I do wonder sometimes about Apples QA process for the TiBooks though!!

My previous Apple TiBook (Rev A 500) required a replacement HD after 3 months and then a new screen in the November 2001, I didn't see the laptop again until the next year (January) as a freelancer I lost alot of work because of Apple, and the totally ***** service they provided during that repair, (incompetence, lies etc etc) in the end UK Trading Standards had to become involved to get my PowerBook returned....

Sometimes Apple do seem to shoot themselves in the foot, especially to more loyal buyers such as ourselves.....

I can only imagine that had either yours or my experience had happened to a switcher, Apple would have lost a customer..... and in your case it sounds like you'll consider switching if Apple doesn't help solve your problem, and who'd blame you!!

I hope you manage to get the service you deserve but more importantly a product that represents the substantial amount of cash you paid to Apple!!

Good luck buddy!!

G

[Independence]

does this kind of problem happen often?

[evoluzione]

wow, i feel for you guys. at first i though you must've been doing something wrong, not knowing how to treat a computer, but then i see that obviously isn't the case. i used to work on a bunch of macs and they all ran completely glitch free for me, and then when my assistant used them, she always managed to break them somehow, incredible.

i had a wallstreet 300 when they came out and only sold it this time last year, to pay for rent unfortunately, otherwise i would have had no intention of getting rid of it. it was flawless. the only problem i can think of was the dvd hardware decoder card got jammed once, the pcmcia cage got bent so wouldn't always eject. TekServe here in NYC took a pair of thin nosed pliers to it and yanked it out, then proceeded to try plugging it in again upside down! other than that, i replaced the HD twice, eventually with a 28GB when Apple had just started using 12's and said that it couldn't be done. took that thing completely apart and powersanded the top of the case so it had a brushed metal centre stripe to it. looked awesome. not one problem. It's a shame that I don't have the same confidence about the TiBooks, or now the AiBooks, they just don't seem as rock steady as my wallstreet was. anyone beg to differ??

[iJon]

you really want to get your word around dont you jeff. first spymac now here.

iJon

[swahilibill]

I dont exactly know how you feel, but I had a similar problem with apple with my ibook i had before i got my imac. THe p.o.s. never worked and the problem with some of these large companies is that they automatically assume that you did something terrible to it and that the computer was perfect and something never could be faulty, etc...I finally bitched them out and i got my ibook replaced, but it is frusterating. Maybe you should just get another type of mac, one of the new 17 or 12 powerbooks? I dont know, but hang in there, its worth it!!!

[Jeff Williams]

Originally posted by iJon
you really want to get your word around dont you jeff. first spymac now here.

iJon

Yes I do. In as many places as I can find.

[macmax]

i have never had an apple that doesn't work well, but i feel for you and i hope your problem gets solved

[Jeff Williams]

You know, last night I counted up the actual numbers of Apple computers I have owned since 1987, and the number was over a dozen. Before that I had an Apple IIe.

The only problems I have had - have occured in the past 18 months.

Before the PowerBook, my Dual Processor G4 tower died. Apple replaced the Logic Board and both processors, now it is back in business. That machine cost nearly $6000, and did not live a full year.

I bought a first generation iPod - it was taken by the click of death. Apple replaced it, and I have had no problems thus far.

And of course, this was happening the entire time.

Makes you wonder just what the heck is going on with their quality control lately. One thing is certain, based on the number of times I have posted this message on different boards and the responses I have received, I am NOT alone in this, there are a lot of disgruntled Apple customers, and people need to know this is how Apple is currently treating their customers - especially their loyal and long-time ones.

It's not so bad to get a defective piece (or pieces) of gear, it's the customer service (or lack thereof) that counts.

[Chad4Mac]

Jeff-

Does your computer work properly now? The Apple Techs fixed the TDM and the Airport antenna, right?

It sucks that you had to go through this terrible situation. Have you ever dealt with Gateway? or Dell? HP? I'm not saying your experience would have been worse (I don't think it possible could) but you might have found that Apple service is equal to or better than these companies. This is what I have found in my experiences.

Anyway, you could always sell your Powerbook, count your losses and save, and buy a new updated Al Powebook.

Chad4Mac

[cr2sh]

I don't believe this story. Not that I'm calling him a liar, but there's something else that's ruining his powerbooks. That type of record, no way... I don't buy it. I'd invest in a voltage regulator.

Just my .02, but something's screwing him and I doubt its Apple.

[Jeff Williams]

Originally posted by Chad4Mac
Jeff-

Does your computer work properly now? The Apple Techs fixed the TDM and the Airport antenna, right?

Sending off the computer today. The antenna lead was completely severed, so they are going to have to replace that wiring. I fixed TDM myself, that was a software issue this time around.

cr2sh - sorry you don't believe me. All of my computers are on dedicated circuits and expensive surge protectors in my multimedia studio. I have had an independent computer consultant come in and check things out, and had an electrician in as well... this is not a problem I am causing.

[ewinemiller]

Originally posted by Chad4Mac
It sucks that you had to go through this terrible situation. Have you ever dealt with Gateway? or Dell? HP? I'm not saying your experience would have been worse (I don't think it possible could) but you might have found that Apple service is equal to or better than these companies. This is what I have found in my experiences.

In a little defense of Dell, I've found them to be quite responsive and friendly for service calls. My last Dell laptop had a few problems. In every case they overnighted a part if it was something I could replace (power cord and CD drive), or had a guy there the next day if it was something I couldn't (a latch). The cord and latch were definitely issues with me being rougher than I should with a laptop and they didn't care, they just replaced it. In the case of the cord, the new part got there before I even ran out of battery. I've seen dell replace a power supply that a buddy lost for no charge. I think the Dell service has been amazing, on the PC side I won't buy anything else now.

[alex_ant]

However, in the long run, what I am most interested in is a computer that works reliably, and does not have to be repeatedly returned to Apple for warranty service.

Of course, this request was subsequently denied.

I am therefore, asking again.

"Dear Apple. This is the most defective computer I've ever owned. By all accounts it is a complete piece of junk and these problems are inherent in the design of the machine. After the first time it failed, I was disappointed. After the second time it failed, I was angry. After the third time it failed, I was mad! After the fourth time it failed, I was really, really pissed! Now it has failed a fifth time, and please Apple, you'd better fix this thing before I get really, really, REALLY steaming mad! You don't want to lose my business, Apple, because I'll leave you, I swear, I'll leave you, I swear! Don't try me, because I'll do it!"

You should have posted this open letter the first time Apple sent you a defective machine to replace your defective machine. You should be suing Apple and asking for your money back under a lemon law, not begging for a working machine. How do you expect such a ***** (synonym for cat) letter to be taken seriously? The only reason Apple (or any company) even has warranties is to ensure customer satisfaction (which they hope will lead to repeat business). If you show Apple that you are a Mac loyalist who will never abandon the platform, well, it doesn't matter what steaming pile of **** computer they send you because you'll be their customer no matter what, so what should they care?

Mac loyalists are the #1 reason sponsor of unreliable Macs (weak Ti paint, defective eMac CRTs, cracked Cube plastic, random defects such as yours). They encourage Apple to be complacent. Dude, you're getting a Dell.

[alex_ant]

By the way, what's changed in the past 18 months (actually the past few years) is that Apple no longer manufactures its own computers. Quanta, Flextronics, etc. do. These are the same companies that manufacture e.g. Compaqs.

[Chad4Mac]

Originally posted by ewinemiller
In a little defense of Dell, I've found them to be quite responsive and friendly for service calls. My last Dell laptop had a few problems. In every case they overnighted a part if it was something I could replace (power cord and CD drive), or had a guy there the next day if it was something I couldn't (a latch). The cord and latch were definitely issues with me being rougher than I should with a laptop and they didn't care, they just replaced it. In the case of the cord, the new part got there before I even ran out of battery. I've seen dell replace a power supply that a buddy lost for no charge. I think the Dell service has been amazing, on the PC side I won't buy anything else now.

Yea, I'll back you up on that one. Dell service is better than the rest.

We have a account with them; deal with Dell all the time. Good service, nice people, decent product.

Chad4Mac

[Jeff Williams]

Originally posted by alex_ant
Mac loyalists are the #1 reason sponsor of unreliable Macs (weak Ti paint, defective eMac CRTs, cracked Cube plastic, random defects such as yours). They encourage Apple to be complacent. Dude, you're getting a Dell.

Believe it or not, I agree with this statement - except I don't think I am being complacent. Maybe the first few times, but it seemed as if Apple was making an effort. Now it seems as if they are going through the motions.

I have been posting this letter everywhere I can... on SpyMac this morning some snot nose kid said this (and this is a DIRECT quote): "I should just warn you that if your complaint is aimed at Apple, the company and their products then your complaint is empty and unjust simply because apple is in fact a noble company "

Noble? Did I read that right? Noble?

I tell you, the next time some Mac evangelist (like myself) calls wintel users something like "mindless automatons" I am gonna tell them to shut the hell up.

I can just see some guy at their repair center asking himself which would be cheaper... replacing the computer or doing yet another stupid thing that would cause my head to explode.

I guess I better lay down some plastic.

As for suing Apple, there is no computer lemon law, and if I wanted to take Apple to small claims court, I would have to go to Cupertino and file there. I can't file in my own county. If I could, I would file paperwork today.

[SBG88]

So when I see a lonely black cloud in the sky I will be certain it must be following you.

If you get some that find it hard to believe your story, its because it is. It sounds like everything Apple you own is no good. What about other products, cars, phones, audio, video...or is it just Apple products?

[Jeff Williams]

Originally posted by SBG88
It sounds like everything Apple you own is no good. What about other products, cars, phones, audio, video...or is it just Apple products?

And it sounds like you must be a shill for Apple computer, right?

Currently I own and operate half a dozen macs, and one iPod. I am only having problems (currently) with one Powerbook.

But if I see a lonely dark cloud anytime soon, I'll be sure to tell you. Any explanation would be better than none.

[SBG88]

A shill, hardly. I just started using Macs. I'm not saying I doubt you, I was trying to convey you have to be the "unluckiest" person on the face of the earth with regards to Apple.

[Jeff Williams]

I would agree with that statement, at least it sure feels that way sometimes.

[Timothy]

I've had great experience with every Mac I've ever owned, including my TiBook...

What confuses me about your story, however, is that it appears that Apple HAS been responsive to your issues, replacing your computer not once, not twice, but THREE TIMES according to your story.

Now, you are asking for a fourth replacement, for a problem that will be solved by changing out some simple airport attenna wiring? That request seems a bit excessive.

If your experience were the rule, and not the exception, I think we'd have something to discuss here. But, for the most part, most people I know are satisfied with their Tibooks. I know I am.

While your previous THREE swaps may have been legitimate, you clearly came out ahead with faster and more powerful computers. Are you sure you aren't just asking for another free upgrade? Because from my perspective, that's what it looks like.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Wow this is really amazing, I wonder if there is more to this then meets the eye? Any chance this thing was exposed to radioactive or strong magnetic fields? you live under or near a transformer?Powerlines next to your home?Very strange. I have had 4 macs with only 1 problem. my wifes imac 500 and they replaced the hard drive in a day and that was that. didnt cost me anything. Sorry to hear you have had so many headaches. Good luck

[Jeff Williams]

Originally posted by Timothy
I've had great experience with every Mac I've ever owned, including my TiBook...

With few exceptions, I felt the same way. Even the other problems I had were dealt with quickly and permenantly.

Now, you are asking for a fourth replacement, for a problem that will be solved by changing out some simple airport attenna wiring? That request seems a bit excessive.

Actually, no. I asked for the replacement following the spontaneous failure of the logic board, OEM memory and combo drive.

Every time this goes bad, I have to spend a week getting the unit back up and running with all the software installed and configured. Frankly, in my work environment, that is quite a hindernace, not to mention a big time and money waster.

If your experience were the rule, and not the exception, I think we'd have something to discuss here. But, for the most part, most people I know are satisfied with their Tibooks. I know I am.

If my experience were the rule, Apple would not be in business. I think it's pretty clear this is an exception from the norm.

While your previous THREE swaps may have been legitimate, you clearly came out ahead with faster and more powerful computers. Are you sure you aren't just asking for another free upgrade? Because from my perspective, that's what it looks like.

Actually, I was only upgraded once - and it was not at my request. that resulted in a decent speed bump and a built in CD burner that I rarely use. Of course, this begs the question... if that unit had not been defective, I would not be in this situation, and I would not have written this letter.

[Rower_CPU]

Sorry to hear about your problems, Jeff.

I've used 4 TiBooks in the last 18 months, one from each revision, and only one had any sort of problem (line of stuck pixlels on display, immediately returned for a replacement). All have been in service and running great the whole time.

You understand that the severity and persistence of your problems sound quite incredulous to those of us how haven't had these sort of issues. Good luck getting things sorted out.

[alex_ant]

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Believe it or not, I agree with this statement - except I don't think I am being complacent. Maybe the first few times, but it seemed as if Apple was making an effort. Now it seems as if they are going through the motions.

The problem is that Apple will read this letter and call your bluff. You're not going to leave the Mac platform. You know it, they know it, and everyone who will read the letter will know it because it's obvious. Therefore, Apple just doesn't feel inclined to do anything for you, because they know they've got your business in the bag. My instinct is that if they are just going through the motions, they don't deserve your business. I feel for you, as I would feel bad about leaving OS X as well. I know what it's like to be frustrated by computers, as my similarly frustrating Windows 98 problems were what convinced me to buy a Mac.

I'm sure that if you were to consult with a lawyer and take whatever action that lawyer were to recommend, you would have no problems winning any sort of suit you would file, including receiving possible damages for inconvenience and/or lost productivity, as you are the one who is clearly getting screwed here. But if that were not an option, here is what I would do:

1) Demand a full refund. If the Apple support person refuses, ask to speak to their manager. Work my way up through the chain of command until I get that refund. (If this still wouldn't work, I'd hawk the "fixer-upper" PowerBook on eBay.)
2) Take my cash and buy a similarly-performing PC notebook. Spend the $500 I saved on... whatever
3) Take a photo of my new PC.
4) Write a letter much more caustic than the one you just wrote. Rather than including a vague threat to leave the Mac platform, inform Apple that I already have and that I'll be recommending to all my friends not to buy Apple products, as they are junk. End it with "My name is alex_ant and I'm a switcher! And here is my far superior new computer:"
5) Include the photo I took in step 3.

Good luck...

-Alex (fellow owner of a defective Ti, although not nearly that defective)

[timbloom]

Very unlucky that you have had so many bad products. Ever thought of taking it to a priest?!

Only thing i could guess is your consistent problems are a result of Apple giving you bad refurbs. This is quite unfortunate, because most refurbs are often very good. But with these kinds of problems... [shudder]

[MrMacMan]

Wow call an excorsist because that is CURSED.

Damn... (no offense) but that is a very very bad string of bad computers.

Jobs should break this curse, take the computer, and smash it into a billion peices.

That should do it.
You should really really contact the Major apple people about this... I mean something is realllyyy wrong there.

[Jeff Williams]

OK... time for a brief update, and answers to some common questions or responses to comments I have heard more than once.

First, thanks to those of you who have chosen to write me personal emails. Actually, I wish you all would post your experiences, because it tends to lend credibility to my account - but at the same time, after being flamed for communicating information in this manner, I can totally understand your public silence.

This process has been an eye opening experience for me. I am absolutely shocked by the number of people who claim I am some kind of anti-mac crusader, an outright liar or perhaps the most inept computer user of all time.

That's okay. Aside from straight out name calling, I can handle that kind of stuff. I assumed that by utilizing public forums like this I would catch some flak.

So... answers to questions:

(1.) No, I am not a windows user. Mac only, since 1985.

(2.) No, I am not doing anything odd with my computers. If anything, I am overly conservative with their use.

(3.) Yes, I am in contact with Apple Executive Relations. I have been been working with them for several months on multiple issues. From my understanding of how the system works, I cannot go any higher unless I talk to Steve Jobs himself, and no - he has not responded to any of my emails. My Apple Executive Relations rep has decided that the details of my case do not warrant another replacement.

(4.) No, I do not agree with that assessment.

And now, an update to my situation. As Apple has decided a replacement is not appropriate, they instructed me to send the PowerBook back to them for warranty service. I did so on Wednesday, March 5th. At that time I indicated that I needed to have my laptop back by Monday (3/10) for impending work. Apple repaired the unit and overnighted it back to me. I received my computer on Friday, March 7th.

One compliment I can pay them is that their repair turnaround is impressively quick.

The results? Well, the airport antenna is clearly fixed. In fact, it works better than ever. I get full strength signal in areas I used to get 1/2 strength, and I can't explain that, but I know I like it. So there's the good news.

Now for what *could* be the bad news.

During my first hour of using the PowerBook after taking it out of the shipping box, I was carrying it between my recording studio and my workstation. As I walked with the unit on and screen in it's vertical position, the computer just turned itself off with no warning. *Blink* and it was off.

It reminded me of when I accidentally dislodged my battery some months ago, while working without external power. That kind of shut down... no warning. Additionally, as the computer does some kind of self-diagnosis in these situations, the next start up takes significantly longer than normal.

I thought I might have done the same, so I didn't think much of it.

When it happened again, it was sitting at my desk, plugged in. That made it pretty clear to me that this was not a battery issue. At that time, I reset PRAM and the power manager. I then ran the hardware test CD-ROM which showed no errors.

The next day (Saturday) this situation repeated itself five more times. I therefore did a search on the Apple website and called tech support for assistance. We then reset open firmware. Right after that the computer blinked out again, it was actually kind of funny. Well, guess we can rule that out.

Saturday night before I went to bed, I booted from the hardware test CD-ROM, The tech I had spoken to indicated that this issue is most likely hardware related, but this would be a good course of action to confirm it. Sure enough, when I woke up this morning, the computer was off.

Sleeping the computer doesn't seem to have any effect on this issue. I have come downstairs to my office after closing the lid and putting it to sleep, only to find it shut down.

Just to reiterate, this happens randomly... it has happened as little as 30 minutes apart, and on the flipside only happened twice today. I assume that tomorrow I will spend a fair amount of time talking to Executive Relations (time I would rather spend working) and I will probably have to have the unit repaired. Again.

I'll keep you posted...

[cr2sh]

Okay, I'm going to just say it because I think its the truth. I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time and its just my opinion, but this is total nonsense. I'm guessing Apple refuses to replace his laptop, because they consider his claims totally bogus too. I don't believe him, I think he has some sort of weird fixation or need for attention, whatever it is, his story sounds ****ing ridiculous.

I'm now going to unsubscribe from this thread.

[ELYXR]

Never had a bad Apple... (no pun intended, har). ;)

[beatle888]

"One compliment I can pay them is that their repair turnaround is impressively quick."


this is so true. i just had that painted plastic around the edge of the ti case replaced under warranty. I sent it out, they had it for one day and sent it back that night, got it the next morning looking perfect. :D

im really sorry to hear about your computer experience with apple. i would look into the lemon law. i hear that if you have to send the item back for repairs three times you can act on the lemon law. but it MIGHT be three times for the SAME problem. damn this sucks. i would definitely look into it.

take it easy and dont listen to these guys. they should be counting their blessings.

[onetime]

I can tell you now that you're not getting a refund.. That may be obvious for most, but I'm amazed they replaced the system three whole times with one outside of a year. Good call on the Apple Care at least.

I can also tell you that if that PowerBook had been a Dell, there's nearly no chance in Hell that you'd have gotten three exchanges. I can't say it hasn't been done, but in my year to date servicing dimensions over the phone for Dell, a third exchange (or second even) is terribly unlikely while the refund is obviously out of the question. Especially since you've been so kind in giving such bad publicity.

Two words: E BAY... let some unworthy switcher thing he's getting a sweet deal. Hell, it was probably a refurb in the first place, huh?

In the meantime, my Pismo from 5/00 is remains flawless...

[boskie]

Originally posted by onetime


Two words: E BAY... let some unworthy switcher thing he's getting a sweet deal. Hell, it was probably a refurb in the first place, huh?



Why would a switcher be unworthy? Shouldn't he/she get the best mac poss to bring them into our fold?

I think you miss understand the meaning of a switcher - they are switching by their own choice as they have come to realise that an Apple computer is a better computing experience than what they were previously using.

We should be embracing the switcher and helping them with regards to their switch - not giving them a bum deal.

To Jeff:

Although i have never had any BAD mac experiences that warrant the amount of bad luck you've had, i feel for you and hope that your problems are sorted out.

[Jeff Williams]

Originally posted by onetime
I can tell you now that you're not getting a refund...

Not asking for a refund. Only an purchase value exchange, where I am willing to pay the difference.

Two words: E BAY... let some unworthy switcher thing he's getting a sweet deal. Hell, it was probably a refurb in the first place, huh?

I'm not willing to do that until all known technical issues are resolved. While I want to resolve this issue personally, I am not going to pawn the problem off on someone else... someone who coould sue me if the problems continue. Besides, that just wouldn't be ethical.

In the meantime, my Pismo from 5/00 is remains flawless...

Wish I still had mine. The Pismo was a nice powerbook.

[janey]

oooh that's not good...five times.
You said you were in contact with Apple Executive Relations...go up HIGHER and e-mail Steve himself. Demand that he do something about your problem. his e-mail address is sjobs@apple.com and yes he does personally read all of his e-mails (i believe) and replies to them if he has time.
Man you've had bad luck with the powerbook :rolleyes: i wish you luck...because you might need it.

[onetime]

Originally posted by boskie

Why would a switcher be unworthy?

While I don't misunderstand the definition of a switcher, I do feel that some people simply don't deserve the Mac experience. There are some who will switch because it's becoming some type of fad. That's the last thing I want.. a bunch of windows punks posing they realize what a nice machine they have. Pessimistic I know, but some are better off stuck in their windows world. An unworthy switcher would be he who buys a Mac so he can complain about how different it is, thereby refusing to use it. Let that person receive Jeff's TiBook.

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
Not asking for a refund.
Actually, you are:
Originally posted by Jeff Williams
...prefer that Apple either refund my purchase price or allow me to use that amount of credit towards the purchase of a new computer.

I agree, your best chance would be credit towards another purchase.

While eBay is a bit extreme, as long as it's not DOA, (to my knowledge) nobody could sue you for selling them a cursed PowerBook. Someone mentioned there's no computer lemon-law, right? Surely I would hate to purchase this Book on eBay, but I think I'm a bit more wise than that.
As for ethics, maybe that's an area where I could self-reflect a bit... But if you'd have sold your bad luck the third or forth exchange, you wouldn't be filling our ears now.

[Jeff Williams]

Originally posted by onetime
Actually, you are

Augh, you got me. To my defense, when I wrote the letter, I guess I added that to give them an option, never considering it would happen. So, you're right - I asked for that, but the thought that would occur never crossed my mind.

[Jeff Williams]

I would like to make you aware of an ongoing problem I have had with Apple Computer.

Let me first say that I am not a troll. I am a huge fan of Apple and have never owned another brand of computer, starting with my Apple IIe in 1983, and many years of experience working exclusively on the Mac OS computers that have followed. In fact, I have taken a lot of grief for my use of Apple products, and probably even limited my own job opportunities by being so devoted to the platform. I have been a stalwart and steadfast customer of Apple for over 18 years, am proud of my Apple Computer purchases, and have recommended and assisted in the sales of many Mac OS systems over time.

In short, I purchased a Titanium PowerBook in August of 2001. Talk about a bad omen, that computer was defective out of the box with a failed power manager. It was replaced by Apple within a week of purchase, and then functioned flawlessly for nearly nine months before the wheels fell off that proverbial wagon.

Since then, I have had the computer REPLACED two times (including one more PowerBook that was defective out of the box) and it has been returned to Apple at least a dozen times for a variety of problems, including failing hard drives, combo drives, logic boards, RAM SIMMS, AirPort issues, and the list goes on...

Despite these negative experiences with my PowerBook over the past several months, I still champion Apple products.

That is, I did... until today.

On Friday, I sent my computer to Apple for service on what was diagnosed (for the second time) as a bad RAM issue. The last time this happened, Apple replaced the memory and the logic board, and according to the enclosed invoice, had done so again. However, this time when I received the computer back from service, it did not function. It was as if I had never returned it to Apple, and someone had emailed me a bogus invoice. Now, the computer does nothing. When I push the power button, it seems to give a mechanical gasp - and then immediately shuts down. Was it my imagination, or did I just smell smoke? To say I am frustrated is the understatement of the century.

More so, the techs at Apple seem to be content to swap out parts rather than look for underlying causes of the problems I have experienced. Sorry, but that no longer works for me. Tell me why the component in question failed and why the same thing will not happen again, or send me a new computer. I run two businesses, I have a one year old son, and I don't have time to deal with this constant inconvenience. The bottom line is I want (and deserve) a computer that WORKS. And, for the first time in my life, I am beginning to believe that computer may be something other than an Apple product. In fact, if I had the cash, I would have already purchased something else.

I have sent letters, made phone calls, elicited the help of other friends, colleagues and Apple customers - even recruited a nationally syndicated consumer radio program ("The Clark Howard Show") for assistance. And, I have posted details on these problems on no fewer than three dozen websites, resulting in tens of thousands of people becoming aware of my plight. At the same time, I have also been made aware of hundreds of people across the country with similar issues and bad experiences with defective Apple products. It seems Apple is more content to deny problems exist, blame consumers, and alienate customers rather than deal with these types of problems in a straightforward manner.

Does Apple have quality control problems? In my opinion, yes. But more important than the hardware issues, which can ultimately be repaired or replaced, my customer service experience with Apple has been substandard. In fact, this whole TiBook cluster-foxtrot is cumulatively the worst consumer purchase/service experience I have received in my entire life. I'm sorry, but if you spend $3000 plus on a professional portable computer, you should be able to use it for many, many years without issue.

As I said before, I personally love the Mac OS. I am not going to say "don't buy Apple," however, as things stand, the hardware and service leave MUCH to be desired. I certainly wouldn't spend any more of my money with them until my faith in the product is restored (and it's going to take a lot) and I certainly wouldn't recommend their products to friends, family or colleagues. Nearly two decades of goodwill down the toilet, I guess that's life in the big city.

In an era where Linux is poised to surpass the market share of Apple, the fine folks at Cupertino need to decide if they want to become more than a proprietary (fringe) OS / hardware combo, or if they ever want to be something truly outstanding - with significant market share. In case they are listening, that means providing quality control and customer service worth telling others about. That means fixing problems like those I have experienced THE FIRST TIME, rather than waiting until I am standing on a street corner, banging pots and pans together and going out of my way to share my bad experiences with anyone that will listen.

Like I just did.

[Rower_CPU]

Man, the troubles you're having with your TiBooks is just unreal.

As has been said previously, many of us have experienced the complete opposite with our Macs and can only be skeptical about your story.

At any rate, good luck getting things straightened out. :)

[Stelliform]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU

I've used 4 TiBooks in the last 18 months, one from each revision, and only one had any sort of problem (line of stuck pixlels on display, immediately returned for a replacement). All have been in service and running great the whole time.


Rower's experience with TiBooks parallels my own.

I have been using a TiBook 1Ghz since November. I have to say that it is absolute best computer that I have ever owned. (And I currently own 10 computers at my office.)

I am sorry to hear about your troubles, but I can't find a bad thing to say about my TiBook. (But I am a switcher, so my tolerance for computer pain is higher than the average Mac user. :))

I hope you get it resloved!

[MrMacMan]

I still live my idea, drive to the office.

Drop the computer at the desk with an angry note. Specs, wtf apple did.

why they suck for doing this, etc. and then leave. :rolleyes:

of coarse leave on the note where they can send you the fixed one.

[bokdol]

all i have to say is i do believe him and as apple users we should support him. i have many expirences with bad apples. in my job we purchased 40 ibooks. 4 of them went bad. that may not seem like a lot but that is 10% of our machines. 10 % in any industry is too much. if 10 percent of a type of car had a problem thats a recall. but in apple's world they tell you to buy apple care and dont worry about it. but if apple is selling defective products then why should i buy apple care when it's there fault. i understand if i made a mistake i should pay for it. but if the computer comes to us messed up because of how is made then why am i shelling out for it? and many ibook owners know of the problem i am talking about (as there is a discussion forum on apples site about it). so yes he should complain and yes apple shoule address the problem they have been having about lemon computers. and i hope there well be a lemon law made for comuters because of the amount invested in them. and if there was a law apple would see their problem as soo many computer would have been returned.

[GeneR]

Wow. What patience! I feel for you too. Best of luck. :(

[Gus]

Hey Rower, nice use of "incredulous". :)

Man, I hope you get some satisfaction soon. A colleague of mine has had similar logic board problems with his iBook 700. He's going on his 3rd iBook, with 5 different logic boards between them. Good luck, and keep us posted!

Regards,
Gus

[yzedf]

That sucks man...

Sounds like it is time to do a experiment with a PC laptop and $1500. All this wasted time and effort is costing you money.

Remember, your computer doesn't define you; the work you produce with it does. If you can do the same thing with a Dell (best service of the PC's) and you have good luck with it... go for it.

Also, why did you buy the PB to begin with? It sounds like it never leaves the office. Desktop time?

Any way, good luck.

[Abstract]

"APRIL FOOLS!!!"

Heh, if only that were true. ;) Good luck to you. Maybe instead of asking Apple to double check the laptop via email or phone, slip a Post-It note on the keyboard and close it before you send it. That way whoever is fixing the computer will know. Or just include a letter similar to the posts you have made here describing your computer troubles, except make them shorter and more concise because nobody will read it if its too long: "3 Replacements over 18 months, 6 logic board replacements; plus, I've sent it to you 22 times for repairs. Pleeeaase double check to see if it works before you send it back to me." Just slip this short letter on the keyboard, close the lid and off it goes.

[mangoduck]

i've had a couple hard drives die, one to the clicik of death and the other developed some sort of scraping noise and spat out endless transfer errors. not rare problems.

but the logic board in my imac died twice - i attribute the second to hotter than normal conditions where i was using it. small room during the florida summer with no a/c (to save on the electric bill), and 24/7 uptime. this imac g3 is also a fanless type, which didn't help the situation. however it was within warranty, barely, and was fixed. been fine since.

i've dealt with many many macs, and various apple models before, and bad luck definitely seems to come in streaks. haven't had one as bad as yours though, and the vast majority of machines have been trouble free. hope you find a sympathetic ear at apple.

[celaurie]

The man's jinxed! Nothing more to it! A good exorcism should fix him out...

[Rezet]

Jeff,

Maybe you should buy your mac stuff from a different store?
Maybe the place you buy them from isn't that reliable?
Try different store next time.

Sorry, I can't help with more...

-Rez

[Moxiemike]

I dunno. maybe its me but it's gotta be the guy's hair. Have you seen his website??? (its in his sig on the letter...)

God. It's.... i dunno. That had to have killed his mac. it looks so... static-y. teehee

[ Image removed at person's request. ]

[eyelikeart]

wow...yeah...

can u say "pretty boy?" :D

[Jeff Williams]

You want to have a discussion about facts? Fine.

You want to rip me, call me names? What ever makes you feel better.

However, now you are posting a copyrighted image without my permission. You'll note right underneath the photo in question the text...

"A quick note about copyright: as a commercial artist, I am committed to protecting the intellectual property rights of myself, my clients, and other artists. Please be aware that images displayed on this website are intended for viewing purposes only. Permission is NOT granted for you to download, archive, transport or transmit these files electronically for any reason without prior written consent. Individuals who choose to ignore this notice will be prosecuted under the U.S. Digital Millennium Copyright Act, Title II, Section 512(c)."

So are you so ignorant that you cannot read?

[Moxiemike]

Originally posted by Jeff Williams
You want to have a discussion about facts? Fine.

You want to rip me, call me names? What ever makes you feel better.

However, now you are posting a copyrighted image without my permission. You'll note right underneath the photo in question the text...

"A quick note about copyright: as a commercial artist, I am committed to protecting the intellectual property rights of myself, my clients, and other artists. Please be aware that images displayed on this website are intended for viewing purposes only. Permission is NOT granted for you to download, archive, transport or transmit these files electronically for any reason without prior written consent. Individuals who choose to ignore this notice will be prosecuted under the U.S. Whiney Stick in the Mud Act, Title II, Section 512(c)."

So are you so ignorant that you cannot read?

Well, it's actually mirroring a direct link from your site. Wasn't copied, downloaded, archived, transmitted... nothing. :)

Take a joke man. Calm down. Maybe that's why your stuff is breaking on you. You seem to be way too uptight my friend.

Ya gonna give yaself an ulcer. Maybe worse.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Jeff Williams]

"...or transmit" would include this use.

Bottom line, you are using a copyrighted image, and my personal likeness, without my permission.

I'll "take a joke" when you write something funny.

Remove the link.

[Grimace]

play nice boys...

Apple is not ever going to flat out refund any money. Applecare is their answer to that problem. When it next goes in for service, make sure that the expert technician knows the FULL history of the Tibook. If a separate person repairs one small thing each time, the real issue may not be addressed.

[Jeff Williams]

Originally posted by carletonmusic
Apple is not ever going to flat out refund any money. Applecare is their answer to that problem...

Apple's current Apple One (1) Year Limited Warranty for the U.S., Canada, Latin America and the Caribbean states:

Apple Computer, Inc. ("Apple") warrants this hardware product against defects in materials and workmanship for a period of ONE (1) YEAR from the date of original retail purchase. If a defect exists, at its option Apple will (1) repair the product at no charge, using new or refurbished replacement parts, (2) exchange the product with a product that is new or which has been manufactured from new or serviceable used parts and is at least functionally equivalent to the original product, or (3) refund the purchase price of the product.

However, I agree it's quite unlikely. Which is why I am taking them to small claims court in about 2 weeks.

[Jeff Williams]

BTW: http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/wty-post1997.html

[kylos]

Moxie, I'd have to say you're crossing the line there. You'd do well to stop 'mirroring' his image.

[herr_neumann]

Originally posted by Chad4Mac
Yea, I'll back you up on that one. Dell service is better than the rest.

We have a account with them; deal with Dell all the time. Good service, nice people, decent product.

Chad4Mac

I dont know about that one, I hae ordered from them three times and all three times they have screwed with me. First order it took four months to get the damn nics. Second order, they sent the wrong products. Third order, was sent as shipp recipent. Dell can lick my arse. THey need to start dug testing their stoner shipping people or something.

[Jeff Williams]

Just so you know, this is a really old thread. Not sure why the attacks started up again here, but just so all you malcontents are aware, the discussion has moved to: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25923

And for the rest of you who are a bit more open minded, I will only say that my experience with Apple has gotten MUCH worse since this post.

This is not an Anti-Mac rant. I love the Mac, and have major issues with Apple customer service right now - with good reason.

For people who want to stick their heads in the sand and believe everything Apple does is perfect, that is your right, ignorance isn't against the law.

But people with legitimate claims have the right to publicise their cause and seek appropriate action - even if that involves a legal remedy.

I would be more than happy to still be using the original titanium PowerBook I purchased. Unfortunately, Apple can't seem to deliver one to me that works.

I don't want to get into debates like compaq vs. apple vs. gateway vs. dell... each company has a horror story out there. However, it's about time people get a grip on reality and realize that these corporations are all out trying to seperate the consumer froom their money. None of them "care" and all of them are probably equally bad!