Just Curious.....Religion Poll

[Mord]

to put so much faith in a book written ultimately by man over what your moral conscience as (according to you) is created and defined by god is counter to all logical reason.

[mjstew33]

I don't follow the bible...never have and never will, but who the hell are you to tell me that I'm living my life the wrong way?
:confused:

I never said you are living your life the wrong way.

I said it's the one of the ways to live your life... :confused:

Oh, my bad.. worded that wrong... edited. :o

but, in my opinion, MY opinion, it's the right way to follow the bible.

[Mord]

I am extremely religious and as "corny" or "weird" as it may sound, the bible is ]ONE of the right way to live your life, no matter what way you put it. maybe, just maybe, you should study the New Testament instead of the Old. ;)


pre edit it makes out like your saying it's wrong, editing and making out like it was always like that is sneaky and wrong, part of being a good person is fessing up when you make a mistake.

edit: for the record i made this pre edit of the post before hand (when you edit very quickly the "last edited" thing does not come up)

[mjstew33]

pre edit it makes out like your saying it's wrong, editing and making out like it was always like that is sneaky and wrong, part of being a good person is fessing up when you make a mistake.
yup, it sure is. :)

[leekohler]

Part of being a good person is fessing up when you make a mistake.

No, it's not! Stay the course! Don't back down and don't admit you're wrong! You're a whiny heathen "librool" if you think that way! :rolleyes: :mad:

[wmmk]

dammit, someone argue with me.

usually people tend to throw more fits whenever i talk about religion.

for one i despise any "holier than thou" attitude because "i chose the correct religion".

every other religious person thinks they chose the correct religion and half will probably be more inteligent and better informed than you are, so to say that you know you chose the correct religion out blind faith is well, silly.
of course ill argue. well duh im better than you , i mean i eat tortellini while worshipping the flying spaghetti monster! duh! i mean, the flying spaghetti monster wouldn't get a cube, he'd get a meatball and stick a 7457 G4 upgrade in it. you've got it all wrong, man!
:p

[Mord]

you'd have an unreliable meatball right their, beef panics all day.

[wmmk]

you'd have an unreliable meatball right their, beef panics all day.
no, because the flying spaghetti monster would be happy because i am holier. (i saw the flying spaghetti moster in a vision and he told me that i must build a meatball cmputer!)

[iMacZealot]

But does your Church have a cross in it? Possibly even made of gold?

My Catholic church's crucifix is made out of wood. When we have statues, etc. of saints and other religious people, we don't pray to the statue; we don't believe the statue is a power, but just a symbol of what that person has done, etc.

[jared_kipe]

of course ill argue. well duh im better than you , i mean i eat tortellini while worshipping the flying spaghetti monster! duh! i mean, the flying spaghetti monster wouldn't get a cube, he'd get a meatball and stick a 7457 G4 upgrade in it. you've got it all wrong, man!
:p
Hector doesn't even eat meat!! He doesn't know how to embrace the FSM, and he is weak from getting his proteins from genetically modified plants. He is not worthy of the calling.

[wmmk]

Hector doesn't even eat meat!! He doesn't know how to embrace the FSM, and he is weak from getting his proteins from genetically modified plants. He is not worthy of the calling.
Ah! That did I not know! Hector, you will be condemned by the Flying Spaghetti Monster! You are an ungrateful Jrglr Grasshopper!
We seriously need to make a fake cult that pretends to worship a flying spaghetti monster!:p

[wmmk]

Update: There's actually a religion about the Flying Spaghetti Monster! (http://www.venganza.org/) I thought Chundles just made it up for fun! This is wonderful!

[zimv20]

Update: There's actually a religion about the Flying Spaghetti Monster! (http://www.venganza.org/) I thought Chundles just made it up for fun!
have you seen the pirate chart?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/98/Pirateschart.jpg

[aquajet]

Wow. (http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6011889705)

[calculus]

This all reminds me of the great Emo Phillips joke...

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump. I ran over and said: "Stop. Don't do it."

"Why shouldn't I?" he asked.

"Well, there's so much to live for!"

"Like what?"

"Are you religious?"

He said, "Yes."

I said, "Me too. Are you Christian or Buddhist?"

"Christian."

"Me too. Are you Catholic or Protestant?"

"Protestant."

"Me too. Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?"

"Baptist."

"Wow. Me too. Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?"

"Baptist Church of God."

"Me too. Are you original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?"

"Reformed Baptist Church of God."

"Me too. Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915?"

He said: "Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915."

I said: "Die, heretic scum," and pushed him off.

[wmmk]

have you seen the pirate chart?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/98/Pirateschart.jpg
I hadn't until now. That's pretty funny!

[wmmk]

Wow. (http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6011889705)
something about that image just doesn't look right to me;) :p :cool:

[Mord]

i choose not to lower the spaghetti monster to my level by consuming meat balls, such behavior is blasphemous.

[kevin.rivers]

Believing in god is silly.

Oh no, I used a lower case "g"! Silly people, I am sure god isn't concerned with our stupid human writing, I bet god is happy we even gave god a name. "god", i bet god thinks it is good name. Short, sweet, and powerful. I wonder if god would give godself another name if god could speak to us again. We need a new prophet one who can spew more senseless garbage to us. Then have his henchmen, i mean disciples, write a book. Most assuredely over time people will accept it and once again argue about things they do not know.

In the book, the name that god wants for godself would be revealed as
Yes thats right it will be

[freeny]

The problem with Christianity is that part of your duties as a Christian is to spread the word of Jesus. In other words, to push your beliefs on others.

If the the duty was to "keep your religion to yourself" or "dont burden others with your beliefs" people may not find them so annoying....

[jared_kipe]

i choose not to lower the spaghetti monster to my level by consuming meat balls, such behavior is blasphemous.
No true you sinner. Not consuming meat is sacrilege. Christianity has problems with its "gays", and we of the FSM have problems with out "vegans". Veganism is such a sin in the eyes of the FSM that he shalt make the built in Mac spell-check proclaim it is misspelled, and give it the red mark of shame.

[count chocula]

dammit, someone argue with me.
thats how i feel :o

[FFTT]

I've always found it deeply disturbing when I think of how many people have
died "In The Name Of God"

Even today people are so easily manipulated by those who benefit from sending men into battle under false pretenses.

[Cooknn]

I just wanted to see what everyone here believes in.I believe I would like to hang with the Big J in the afterlife. I suppose it might be pretty crowded though, so I would be happy with a corner of heaven that looks like this (http://interfacelift.com/goto/wallpaper/00814_epicfalls_1920x1200.jpg). Hopefully I'll have a fast Ferrari to drive on that road - I don't think it goes to Damascus...

[gekko513]

Religion is perhaps one of the strongest supporting observations/proofs of the meme theory and meme's having an influence not only on human culture, but eventually on human evolution.

In short, the meme theory says that humans carry and replicate idea and thoughts, these ideas can be called memes. These memes spread in a way that has quite a few things in common with how genes spread. Hence the name meme. In the same way that genes "use" humans to spread, memes also "use" humans to spread. The strongest memes will be the ones that causes humans to be more successful and influencial and thereby spreading the meme further, in the same way that the strongest genes are the ones that causes humans to be more successful and reproductive and thereby spreading the gene further.

Christianity is a strong meme or rather a set of memes (memeplex) because it contains a message to spread itself and to stomp out other competing memes.

Some will probably say that meme theory is just stating the obvious, but I think it's quite interesting because it makes sense to me to study the spreading of ideas using humans and our brains as more passive carriers than we usually think of ourselves as.

[solvs]

You are "GodBless" and you are saying all this religious stuff, yet, you can't even come to appreciate other's religion and give them respect for following that? WTF? How is that serving God, buddy?!
Hi, you must be new here. :p At least he didn't call your religion a cult. Well, he kinda alluded to it. Like I said, people like him made me leave the church. I don't plan on ever going back either. Some people like having organized religion to find God. Some people need it. And some people can't possibly understand how anyone can live without it. Everyone else is worse than misguided or deluded, they are flat out wrong. Even evil.

I prefer my God to be the question, not the answer.

[ahunter3]

There is a set of processes/experiences that, if not quite as common to our species as hunger for food, fear of pain, or lust for sex, is still something that a lot of folks have known firsthand, and many of them have sought to communicate about it, because they had reason to think it had relevance to other people, and because it affected them so profoundly.


• It seems to involve communication. Communion, if you will. It is traditionally held, within most religions, that this communication is between you and The Almighty, an external and divine entity. I've had the experience and yet I would not describe it as so, although it's a compelling metaphor. (I think the reality is a bit more complicated. That which has been given the name of God — among other names — is not best described as an entity. Not because God is less than an entity, but because "entityhood" is so much less than God)

• Atheists and agnostics hold the notion in abeyance because the natural and rational world that constitutes reality does not include "supernatural entities" and the tales told of "God", etc, do not seem to them to describe anything real. Indeed, anyone who approaches life with a healthy skepticism combined with the courage to learn from experience and evidence should be on the road to seeing things as they, in fact, are. While it is possible that such a person could select a sufficiently narrow and empirical definition of "real" as to rule out anything that cannot be measured and weighted, most such people can comprehend the utility of concepts and abstractions and have sufficient questions about life to be open to spiritual exploration if it doesn't involve blind acceptance of things simply because they are told to accept them in order to be "right with God" or otherwise spiritually proper.

• Wisdom is as light, and its source shineth of its own accord. If religion or spirituality has insights and understandings, and language use is an art not inaccessible to those who have had religious or spiritual experiences, then those who have had such experiences and wish to tell of them should be able to describe in new terms and phrases that which is of importance to them, whether their inclination is to develop and derive philosophically or to describe from personal experience. If they can only blather on in the same timeworn phrases that both they and the atheists & agnostics have heard over and over ad infinitum, it is reasonable to assume they have nothing to say.

• Yes. Yes I have, yes I do, yes I can. God is a sense of Self, as well as the Source of All. You know English grammar, yes? You say "I" to speak of first person singular. You say "we" to speak of first person plural. Two senses of self, one singular (just you as an individual), one plural (you-all, collectively, still very much a sense of self, but shared with others, and a sense of belonging and membership and connection, yes?). You ever had a "we"? For real? To the point that "you" were the "group you", primarily, and not just the "individual you"? Then you know about sense of self and how it can exist at different levels. Now think of God as a sense of self that is all-encompassing. That Which Is. You are part of that.

• That Which Is is sentient. Not an "entity". All "entities" are mere subsets. What is "universe"? I will tell you about "universe". Fifteen billion years ago a vacuum fluctuation manifested itself. We call it the Big Bang. It had no prior cause. It came into existence because it chose to, essentially. And, as events go, it's the only event that has ever occurred in our universe, and it is, in fact, our universe. Everything else is an artificial subdivision, someone putting a line and saying "starting from here I'm calling this subevent ThisNewName". You and I and every other human (plus the kitty cats and the volcanos and the shrimp and forests and stars) are a subset of the Big Bang. And, as an event, it is self-aware. We're a part of it and we're self-aware.

• Communion is with the total self, the larger self, the That Which Is. The ancient Jews, in their Torah, had God identifying as "I Am That I Am". I am That Which Is. Fundamental. Every viable religion began with someone who had an understanding and put it into words, followed by an unfortunate tendency towards institutionalization and the parroting of those words. Anyway, the process has been called "prayer", "meditation", and probably thousands of other things. It isn't always quiet and peaceful: sometimes it is emphatic and demanding and desperate. What is isn't is bogus, even if some of the content thusly acquired is. Insofar as the all-encompassing sense of self is genuinely, logically, atheistically, gramatically VALID, one can enter such a state of awareness and perceive things as if from a great height; the process is internal, it is, after all, of SELF, even if the sense of self is not individual. No "invisible pink unicorns" or "sky gods" need make an appearance. One could use terms such as "the unconscious" or "the gestalt", but are they, in any appreciable sense, an improvement?

•*The way the mind functions is still something we don't know well, and a lot of what we do "know" is wrong, corrupted by our intentions going in (desire for control or for legitimating systems designed to control people). But it's pretty clear that the rational front-of-the-mind conscous portion could not function without the underlevels doing their thing in the background. Only the interesting or spectacular observations tend to break through to the conscious mind; the unconscious mind is the one that recognizes them as such and flags them and passes them to the conscious mind. The processes of "prayer" and "meditation" (among others) are means of issuing a query to the unconscious, asking for understandings and answers and insights. The content received, in my personal experience, does not come with any footnotes explaining how one came to understand such things, and indeed, may be understood in a very very abstract way that can only be put into words with a bit of practice (because, again, it's not the conscious, verbal mind that got you there!). The phrase "leap of faith" comes to mind! But the healthy skeptic says "OK, let's see if it still makes sense on Tuesday. Let's see if we can put it into words with a bit of practice, and, once having done so, whether we can make sense to people unimpressed with this 'God told me so' stuff". And the skeptic is 100% right. Cook it. Dwell on it. Bring it down, learn how to put it into words. Wisdom is as light and its source shineth of its own accord. If it is genuinely meaningful, you'll be able to convey content and importance to people without resorting to "This is from God, I am a prophet".

[Thomas Veil]

Okay, it's late, and I have to admit I got lost in all that. :o

The problem with Christianity is that part of your duties as a Christian is to spread the word of Jesus. In other words, to push your beliefs on others.

If the the duty was to "keep your religion to yourself" or "dont burden others with your beliefs" people may not find them so annoying....Well, there's no problem with folks trying to spread Christianity. People are trying to "sell" you things and ideas every hour of every day. But if you tell someone you're not interested, that should be that.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/98/Pirateschart.jpg

Well, that proves it!!

Proves what, I don't know. :D

[zimv20]

Proves what, I don't know. :D
global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of pirates since the 1800s. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_spaghetti_monster)

[wmmk]

Well, there's no problem with folks trying to spread Christianity. People are trying to "sell" you things and ideas every hour of every day. But if you tell someone you're not interested, that should be that.
Problem is, many Evangelicals really try to stuff Christianity down your throat. When people walk up to me as I'm walking into or out of Synagogue, telling me that I need to be saved by Jesus, or else I will go to Hell, that is over the top and inappropriate.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/98/Pirateschart.jpg

Well, that proves it!!

Proves what, I don't know. :D
I just noticed something really funny about this chart. Look at the scales......
:p

[ham_man]

global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of pirates since the 1800s. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_spaghetti_monster)
Wait a tic...I thought the reason those were happening was because we weren't donating enough to the 700 Club...

Anyways, where's my damn eyepatch? :mad:

[zimv20]

I just noticed something really funny about this chart. Look at the scales......
:p
ha! i hadn't noticed before.

[FFTT]

The gullibility of the human race never ceases to amaze me.

[DZ/015]

I am an atheist, but that FSM thing looks pretty seductive. Might try pirating also. Wouldn't want the world to overheat.

[wmmk]

I am an atheist, but that FSM thing looks pretty seductive. Might try pirating also. Wouldn't want the world to overheat.
yeah. If I wasn't Jewish, I'd definitely go for the FSM thing;) No, just kidding. I'd actually probably be a confuscianist, which isn't really a religion at all, but whatever...

[dornoforpyros]

I'm switching my vote to zombie-ism (http://www.zombiejesus.com), born again zombie!

[zimv20]

I'm switching my vote to zombie-ism (http://www.zombiejesus.com), born again zombie!
did you make that?

[scem0]

I think Zombie Jesus gained his fame because of the Dawn and Drew podcast (back when they were still funny :().

e

[Ish]

One Bahá'í checking in here . . . (link) (http://www.bahai.org/faq/facts/bahai_faith)

[dornoforpyros]

did you make that?

yes, I'm easily amused and I have too much time on my hands :p

[mactastic]

Problem is, many Evangelicals really try to stuff Christianity down your throat. When people walk up to me as I'm walking into or out of Synagogue, telling me that I need to be saved by Jesus, or else I will go to Hell, that is over the top and inappropriate.
Which brings me to one of my favorite Christian hipocrisies -- that pushing their lifestyle and agenda is fine, even when it involves them actually knocking on your door and asking if you've heard the good news. Yet the same fundies who are willing to do that are often also the ones complaining that gay people are pushing an agenda and lifestyle just by being themselves and that they are offended that someone would dare to push those kinds of values on them.

You have to wonder how they'd react if someone came knocking on their door one morning asking if they'd heard how good gay sex was...

[Josh]

You have to wonder how they'd react if someone came knocking on their door one morning asking if they'd heard how good gay sex was...

Wouldn't be a bad idea for someone to start doing:)

[dornoforpyros]

You have to wonder how they'd react if someone came knocking on their door one morning asking if they'd heard how good gay sex was...

Haha I think it would be a great experiment to try out! Get dressed up like the door to door christians do, carry a nice leather bound book and then give it a go. Actually next time a christian comes to my door I think I might ask them if they've heard how good gay sex is.

[Dagless]

What am I?

I'm church of England, but since I've grown up I disagree with the Queen heading the church. I'd rather be a roman Catholic, just that it normally runs in the family and my girlfriend is Catholic. plus I follow some of the rules (no sex before marriage probably the biggest) so it would be good to officially be one, i suppose.

Do I believe in a god? Yes. Do I know anything about it or practice my religion? No. Do I follow my own rules for personal pride and other religious side effects? Yes.

[calculus]

Antidisestablishmentarianism - I'm against it!

[zimv20]

Antidisestablishmentarianism - I'm against it!
so are you prodisestablishmentarianism or antiestablishmentarianism?

[calculus]

so are you prodisestablishmentarianism or antiestablishmentarianism?
I think they are the same...

[gekko513]

You have to wonder how they [Christians] would react if someone came knocking on their door one morning asking if they'd heard how good gay sex was...
That's an amazingly good point. I wonder why I've never seen that turning of tables before. It makes it so bloody obvious how out of line the most conservative Christians are.

[zimv20]

I think they are the same...
not at all. prodisestablishmentarianism means you are for the disestablishment of the CoE. antiestablishmentarianism means you're opposed to conventional social and political values.

[mactastic]

I can just imagine their faces if you were to show up on their doorstep and offer to read your favorite passages from 'The Joy of Gay Sex' to them...

:eek:

[calculus]

not at all. prodisestablishmentarianism means you are for the disestablishment of the CoE. antiestablishmentarianism means you're opposed to conventional social and political values.
You are of course correct sir

[zimv20]

You are of course correct sir
in reviewing those two definitions, i find that i am a bit of both. you?

[gekko513]

What's the CoE?

Center Of Excellence, Church of England, Common Operating Environment, Corps Of Engineers (US Army), Coefficient of Expansion (glass and lampwork), College of Engineering, Computer Engineering, Code of Ethics, College of Education, Chief Of Engineers, Course of Empire (band), Certificate of Entitlement (Singapore), Church of Euthanasia, Council Of Europe or Council on Education?

[calculus]

in reviewing those two definitions, i find that i am a bit of both. you?
Well, I am certainly for the disestablishment of the Church of England - although I am not going to lose any sleep if it doesn't happen (or even campaign for it for that matter). As regards the second one I am a bit of that (although I wouldn't mind betting that everyone says that they are - it reminds me of how many CDs come back from CDDB with the genre 'alternative')

[calculus]

What's the CoE?

Center Of Excellence, Church of England, Common Operating Environment, Corps Of Engineers (US Army), Coefficient of Expansion (glass and lampwork), College of Engineering, Computer Engineering, Code of Ethics, College of Education, Chief Of Engineers, Course of Empire (band), Certificate of Entitlement (Singapore), Church of Euthanasia, Council Of Europe or Council on Education?
In this context it's the Church of England

[zimv20]

it reminds me of how many CDs come back from CDDB with the genre 'alternative'
ha!

[Kingsly]

- Christian (Nondenominational Bible-Based Protestant)

[count chocula]

I'm switching my vote to zombie-ism (http://www.zombiejesus.com), born again zombie!
this should help you protect yourself from jesus:

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1400049628.01._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_V1056513481_.jpg

the back says:

Top 10 Lessons for Surviving a Zombie Attack

1. Organize before they rise!
2. They feel no fear, why should you?
3. Use your head: cut off theirs.
4. Blades don’t need reloading.
5. Ideal protection = tight clothes, short hair.
6. Get up the staircase, then destroy it.
7. Get out of the car, get onto the bike.
8. Keep moving, keep low, keep quiet, keep alert!
9. No place is safe, only safer.
10. The zombie may be gone, but the threat lives on.

[iBlue]

atheist bitch

[solvs]

I wonder, for those of you saying atheist, do you really believe there is nothing more out there? You know, contrary to what :ahem: some say, God does not have to equal Jehovah/Allah. Or any deity for that matter. If you believe in some form of nature or even the great ecosystem in general, that can count.

You don't have to be "religious" to believe in "God". ;)

[dornoforpyros]

I wonder, for those of you saying atheist, do you really believe there is nothing more out there? You know, contrary to what :ahem: some say, God does not have to equal Jehovah/Allah. Or any deity for that matter. If you believe in some form of nature or even the great ecosystem in general, that can count.

You don't have to be "religious" to believe in "God". ;)

Nope! I don't think there's anything else out there, I just think humans are the smartest of all the animals and thats about it. I understand what your saying about people who are spiritual but not religious.

But I don't think most atheist fit into this category.

[gekko513]

I wonder, for those of you saying atheist...
When I say I'm atheist I mean that I don't think or see that there are any holy powers or spirituality affecting our day to day life. I also think that when I die, my consciousness dies with it and I don't believe that a spiritual "soul" that has any significant part of me in it lives on in any form. The memory of me and the effects my life has had on the world may live on, but that's another thing entirely.

I do not have any deep theories on why we're here or how the universe came into existence in the first place. I'm sure there's more to that than what science has been able to figure out or guess, but I don't think we'll ever get that fully answered.

I said I'm agnostic on occasion, and that's when I think about the unanswerable questions about how and why, but even if that leaves room for "gods" of some kind, I don't think it really qualifies as a religion or spirituality.

[FFTT]

I often wonder what will happen to the poor souls who have entrusted their
deepest beliefs to organized religion when everything they believe true
is indisputably proven false.

[iMacZealot]

I often wonder what will happen to the poor souls who have entrusted their
deepest beliefs to organized religion when everything they believe true
is indisputably proven false.

How do you know I'm wrong? Nobody knows if they're right, but nobody knows if they're wrong.

[solvs]

Nope!
Not even nature? Gravity, time, space? My point wasn't even about spirituality. Just that "God" may not be what everyone thinks. They may believe in some piece of it and not even realize.

The fundies seem to have ruined it for everyone, even those of us who believe in a different form of "God".

[FFTT]

I think it's safe to believe that some superior entity made all of these wonders possible, but that does not mean I have faith in any man's personal interpretation of truth or reality.

For all we know, we're nothing more than an ant farm or a test tube
overrun with a self destructive virus.

[Mord]

Not even nature? Gravity, time, space? My point wasn't even about spirituality. Just that "God" may not be what everyone thinks. They may believe in some piece of it and not even realize.

The fundies seem to have ruined it for everyone, even those of us who believe in a different form of "God".

my inability to explain natural phenomena does not make me want to believe in a "magical imp" that made it all, it makes me want to go take a degree in physics and make my career in it.

i don't feel the need to believe in anything for the heck of it, people always ask me "but what do you believe in", and i tend to say "what i see/hear/touch".

[Thomas Veil]

One Bahá'í checking in here . . . (link) (http://www.bahai.org/faq/facts/bahai_faith)I'm sorry, sir, you can't check in here without luggage.

This is a respectable forum. http://users.adelphia.net/~tjveil/images/yeahright.gif

[~Shard~]

my inability to explain natural phenomena does not make me want to believe in a "magical imp" that made it all, it makes me want to go take a degree in physics and make my career in it.

Unfortunately, if you think our limited understanding of "physics" will explain everything, you couldn't be further from the truth. We as humans are so primitive in our understanding of how the universe works it isn't even funny. :cool:

[xsedrinam]

I'm sorry, sir, you can't check in here without luggage.

This is a respectable forum. http://users.adelphia.net/~tjveil/images/yeahright.gif
With or without religious reservations, even agnostics and atheists have baggage. :)

[dornoforpyros]

Not even nature? Gravity, time, space? My point wasn't even about spirituality. Just that "God" may not be what everyone thinks. They may believe in some piece of it and not even realize.

The fundies seem to have ruined it for everyone, even those of us who believe in a different form of "God".

I'm not quite sure where you going with this.

But I personally (and I believe most atheist share this belief) that there is no "god" of any kind. Everything that's happened is just a coincidence and the result of different factors.

If you leave a pile of fruit rotting on the counter, does "god" create the fruit flies? Nope, so why is there any reason to believe that humans are the result of any other master plan? We're just the fruit flies on this big banana called earth

[Mord]

Unfortunately, if you think our limited understanding of "physics" will explain everything, you couldn't be further from the truth. We as humans are so primitive in our understanding of how the universe works it isn't even funny. :cool:

so you think i'd be better off putting faith in books written a thousands of years ago instead.

do you actually know much about physics, because allot of people spurt out the same sentiment, we still have allot to learn, but to just scoff at it give up and pray is idiocy, i don't require a complete explanation for everything the prospect of jumping on one train or another is not a requisite.

[xsedrinam]

so you think i'd be better off putting faith in books written a thousands of years ago instead.
Only if interested in origins. "If God intended mankind to walk, She wouldn't have created them with rockets" is too shallow a reference point. :p

[FFTT]

Organized religion is the greatest threat to the Big Banana

[Mord]

Only if interested in origins. "If God intended mankind to walk, She wouldn't have created them with rockets" is too shallow a reference point. :p

lets just say i have one of these on the back of my car.

http://www.briancoad.com/dictionary/DicPics/darwin%20fish.JPG

[asherman13]

Jewish. :)

[xsedrinam]

lets just say i have one of these on the back of my car.
<briancoad.com/dictionary/DicPics/darwin%20fish.>
That calls for a considerable oversight of empirical evidence, though. ;)

[~Shard~]

Boy, must your face be red... :D

so you think i'd be better off putting faith in books written a thousands of years ago instead.

Absolutely not. I never said anything of the sort. You jumped to completely the wrong conclusion. Read my previous posts in this thread, you will see that I am suggesting pretty much the opposite.

Never assume - it makes... well, you know. ;) :cool:

do you actually know much about physics, because allot of people spurt out the same sentiment

Yes, actually, I do. And furthermore I can guarantee I know a lot more about physics than you, including the flaws and limitations of it, as I eluded to above. :p :cool:

Sorry, normally I don't make such comments, but you have come across with a condescending tone and jumped to conclusions without asking me for clarification, all of which is unnecessary and which I don't appreciate (we're all adults here), so that's why I've responded how I have. We're probably more similar in our outlook on religion, etc. than you think and are on the same side. Please try thinking before you post in the future, as I wasn't arguing with you in the least. :cool:

I'll give you a chance to take the foot out of your mouth before you reply... :p ;) :)

[Mord]

hence the "do you" part, some do some don't, unless you took a physics degree i'll probably know more/equal to (no doubt jared_kipe will bust out telling me how little i know, damn him)

i'm not saying their are not flaws and limitations, just that we have not yet reached them and to assume we'll never have a complete believable explanation to out own existence is foolish.

[~Shard~]

hence the "do you" part, some do some don't, unless you took a physics degree i'll probably know more/equal to

And as I eluded to above, I've never been one to get into trivial pissing contests, such as "I know more about x than you so :p" but you came across with a certain tone in your post which I thought was unfair and judgmental. Yes, the education I received in university probably puts me ahead of you in fundamental knowledge, etc., but that's neither here nor there. Much of what I have picked up (if not the majority) has been through other means anyway.

i'm not saying their are not flaws and limitations, just that we have not yet reached them and to assume we'll never have a complete believable explanation to out own existence is foolish.

Well, we've definitely reached a few of them. Gravity, magnetism - we can't even fully explain those things and why they behave the way they do.

Physics is just a model. And it's a damn good model, but that's all it is. And at the end of the day, physics as we know it is only half the picture of the universe. And no, religion is not the other half - let me just state that so you don't jump to conclusions again. :p ;) :cool:

[Mord]

so that other 50% is what? the flying spaggetti monster?

i rest my case.

sorry if i sound angry and angsty in my posts, i'm used to arguing with tory party member privet school types which insist that CS lewish has proved jesus was the son of god and Gödel's Completeness Theorem proves god himself must exist.

[Stridder44]

Christian here!

[~Shard~]

so that other 50% is what? the flying spaggetti monster?

i rest my case.

You rest your case? So therefore you have no further arguments? Okay, guess that means I get the last word... unless you're a hypocrite... :p :cool:

The other 50% is more complicated, because, as previously stated, we don't fully understand it and it doesn't conform to our current models and way of thinking. And of course I don't have all the answers (no one does). I'd be willing to go into more detail with you in private, but to be blunt, I'm not sure if you're up for it. The material I'd go over requires a very open mind, someone who's open to new ways of thinking and who isn't skeptical. I'm not getting that vibe from you. PM me if you'd like to discuss it further, otherwise, no worries, it's all good. :cool:

[Mord]

that in-fact was a joke, PM me with the jist of what your on about, i'm only skeptical of wishfull and illogical thinking.

[~Shard~]

that in-fact was a joke, PM me with the jist of what your on about, i'm only skeptical of wishfull and illogical thinking.

And I was essentially joking as well (hence the :p) so it's all good. ;)

I'll PM you once I've collected my thoughts in a coherent, appropriate manner, as not to waste your time and in order to get my thoughts across as best as possible. Look for it in the next day or so...

[ChrisWB]

lets just say i have one of these on the back of my car.

http://www.briancoad.com/dictionary/DicPics/darwin%20fish.JPG
That's great! Where do you get one of those?

[Mord]

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?client=safari&rls=en&q=darwin%20fish&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&ie=UTF-8&tab=if

[solvs]

I'm not quite sure where you going with this.
My point was that there are far greater things in this world than are dreamt of in your imagination. ;) I can't say for sure there is a God, let alone which God, if anyone is even close to the idea. But I am open to the idea of one, if nothing else than in the abstract, because I can't say for certain what is or isn't out there. Atheists complain about the close mindedness of religious people (often a valid complaint), yet suffer the same affliction. It's one thing to be agnostic, I flirt with that myself as I really don't know the answers. Atheism just seems so absolute. The truth is, none of us knows for sure either way, so the least you could do is be open to the possibility.

And as I've said, it doesn't even have to be a "deity" or a belief... just an idea. ;)

[Mord]

it's not that we are closed minded we just think religion is mentally retarded, as in akin to beliveing in the boogie man or father christmas, that one christmax may have felt all magical but it was just a fat man in a suit.

i mean look, i could be god myself, my bank account could just fill itself with money, gambling could just pay off, that weather balloon could be a flying saucer and david blane may just be able to fly.

[solvs]

it's not that we are closed minded we just think religion is mentally retarded
You are confusing religion with God. It's a common misconception, and given it's most vocal members, as I've said before I don't blame you. I often feel the same way. Organized religion and it's dogma does not equal God. Religion is the enemy of God.

And I'm pretty sure David Blaine can fly, dwah! :p

[dornoforpyros]

My point was that there are far greater things in this world than are dreamt of in your imagination. ;) I can't say for sure there is a God, let alone which God, if anyone is even close to the idea. But I am open to the idea of one, if nothing else than in the abstract, because I can't say for certain what is or isn't out there. Atheists complain about the close mindedness of religious people (often a valid complaint), yet suffer the same affliction. It's one thing to be agnostic, I flirt with that myself as I really don't know the answers. Atheism just seems so absolute. The truth is, none of us knows for sure either way, so the least you could do is be open to the possibility.

And as I've said, it doesn't even have to be a "deity" or a belief... just an idea. ;)


ahhh ok, that's much clearer, although I still consider myself an atheist I can understand your viewpoint.

[Mord]

You are confusing religion with God. It's a common misconception, and given it's most vocal members, as I've said before I don't blame you. I often feel the same way. Organized religion and it's dogma does not equal God. Religion is the enemy of God.

And I'm pretty sure David Blaine can fly, dwah! :p

i feel that way about the concept of god, organized religion i disdain for other reasons.

[iGary]

I'm agnostic.

[FFTT]

I've always wondered what would happen in todays world if someone did show up proclaiming to be the Son Of God, The True Messiah, returned to
save the world.

They'd probably send him to a shrink then lock him up under heavy sedation.

If he possessed supernatural powers, he'd be a threat to national security,
so they'd put him in solitary confinement at Guantanamo.

[dornoforpyros]

I've always wondered what would happen in todays world if someone did show up proclaiming to be the Son Of God, The True Messiah, returned to
save the world.

They'd probably send him to a shrink then lock him up under heavy sedation.

If he possessed supernatural powers, he'd be a threat to national security,
so they'd put him in solitary confinement at Guantanamo.

there was a movie about this, I can't remember the title or anything but I do remember jesus getting drunk and hanging with floozies.

[ham_man]

If he possessed supernatural powers, he'd be a threat to national security
Jesus was a "threat to national security"...

[solvs]

I've always wondered what would happen in todays world if someone did show up proclaiming to be the Son Of God, The True Messiah, returned to save the world.
The neocons would call him a hippy and the fundies would burn him as a witch. So in other words, he would be feared by politicians and religious leaders who would then smear his message, chastise him and his followers, and turn him into a martyr in the worst possible way for all to see. Pretty much what happened last time.

Those people wouldn't know Jesus if he smacked them with a fish... which he never actually would, but they wouldn't know that.

[Electro Funk]

i am god... ;) as are all of you...

[solvs]

i am god... ;) as are all of you...
You're only a demigod. ;) And I'm too cheap to cough up the $25 right now.

[xsedrinam]

there was a movie about this, I can't remember the title or anything but I do remember jesus getting drunk and hanging with floozies.
The book is usually much better, and sequels force the usual lack of creativity. ;)

[stillwater]

If he possessed supernatural powers, he'd be a threat to national security,
so they'd put him in solitary confinement at Guantanamo.

Actually, the Pentagon would probably try to weaponize him.

[Queso]

Those people wouldn't know Jesus if he smacked them with a fish... which he never actually would, but they wouldn't know that.
No, he'd smack them with 5,000 fishes. And some loaves too.

[FFTT]

Oh great Jesus The Terminator

[Ish]

I'm sorry, sir, you can't check in here without luggage.

This is a respectable forum. http://users.adelphia.net/~tjveil/images/yeahright.gif

Ah, but I reckon I could make a very good case . . . :)

[~Shard~]

Oh great Jesus The Terminator

Well, he did say he'd be back, didn't he? :D

[sushi]

Oh great Jesus The Terminator
Well, he did say he'd be back, didn't he? :D
LOL! You're bad! :D

[~Shard~]

LOL! You're bad! :D

Hey, it's what I do... :D :cool:

Jesus the Terminator says, "I'll be back - on Judgment Day..."

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/514/blogimagethumbkrockterminatorvz5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

"... and I'm bringing my ass-kicking sidekick Moses with me!"

http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/5884/mosespkgno9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[sushi]

Hey, it's what I do... :D :cool:

Jesus the Terminator says, "I'll be back - on Judgment Day..."

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/514/blogimagethumbkrockterminatorvz5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

"... and I'm bringing my ass-kicking sidekick Moses with me!"

http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/5884/mosespkgno9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Uncle. Uncle. I give! ROTFMLOL! :D :D :D

[count chocula]

I wonder, for those of you saying atheist, do you really believe there is nothing more out there?
yep, nothing.

[count chocula]

lets just say i have one of these on the back of my car.

http://www.briancoad.com/dictionary/DicPics/darwin%20fish.JPG
me too :cool:

[Don't panic]

We're just the fruit flies on this big banana called earth
was it ever formally proven that earth is in fact a big banana?

[dornoforpyros]

was it ever formally proven that earth is in fact a big banana?

of course it was, Zombie Jesus foretold of it.

I take all this religious stuff serious, I wouldn't just make up stories/websites of giant bananas & zombies just to amuse myself

[FFTT]

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/514/blogimagethumbkrockterminatorvz5.jpg

Just imagine the expression on the faces of all the crooked thieving scumbags on his hit list.

[~Shard~]

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/514/blogimagethumbkrockterminatorvz5.jpg

Just imagine the expression on the faces of all the crooked thieving scumbags on his hit list.

And once again, don't forget about his sidekick as well! Wouldn't want to run into that guy either... :D

[FFTT]

Moses wouldn't be in much better shape trying to explain his abduction.

Haven't you ever wondered why that bush was buring in the first place?

[xsedrinam]

The Return

[~Shard~]

Moses wouldn't be in much better shape trying to explain his abduction.

Haven't you ever wondered why that bush was buring in the first place?

Ah, excellent point! :D

[spinne1]

I am a Latter-day Saint (Mormon) and I am very happy with that.

[KingYaba]

Well as a kid I was forced into attending a church. As a preteen i developed a distrust for christian leaders. I still do.

I had a huge debate/argument with my parents over this. Found myself being accused of not looking at this intelligently. They felt threatened becuase I dared to question their faith. I ended up getting reprimanded for that. Though I felt I raised excellent arguments. For instance, I asked where did jesus preach against homosexuals, where did jesus preach against weed (I admit, i said that to piss 'em off) but the question is still valid. If god is the creator of everything, then what is the purpose of marijuana? Why is it these so called god-fearing god-loving poeple are so adamantly opposed to legalizing weed for at least industrial purposes when it was god's will (obvoiusly) to have marijuana placed on this earth. Don't tell me the devil made it. hahahahaha

second questoin, if there can be one god, why cant there be multiple gods? Boy did they get pissed :rolleyes:

So basically my experience with the christian faith has been very awful. forced to do this, forced to believe that...

So basically I stand by this. It wouldn't suprise me if there is a creator god(s). Wouldn't suprise me if an alien race came here and spawned a race of beings to mine the earth of it's resources hence where humans came from. But i'm not going to devote my life to uncertainty. What I know is to study hard/work hard and be the best individual i can. If that's all I do and it turns out there IS a ONE god then I should be fine, right? Surely he/she has the wisdom to see I raised up valid points to questoin the existance of a god(s). Plus I'm not living my life like some little hellraiser. I'm simply saying that religion is not nessesary to my well being and stop shoving it down my throat. :mad:

[solvs]

So basically my experience with the christian faith has been very awful.
Sorry that you've had similar experiences as I have. Glad you haven't closed off your mind though. Best to be open to possibilities IMO. It's a very healthy attitude.

[KingYaba]

Yeah...

[KingYaba]

Kinda makes me wonder if I wasn't pushed so hard, would I still maintain a christian faith? I would like to think to a lesser extent. attending church? hell no. but maybe i'd do more of a meditatoin kind of thing.

[mannix87]

i was raised catholic but I'm not sure now what to believe in. all i know is that I believe that there is a God.

[Jesus]

I'm an atheist, and I will never (without proof of god) accept any religion beyond being an ancient attempt at making sense of the world.

[TequilaBoobs]

Im a follower of Heaven's Gate.

[Don't panic]

I'm an atheist, and I will never (without proof of god) accept any religion beyond being an ancient attempt at making sense of the world.

we just needed Jesus to resurrect this thread....

[yg17]

Oh, the irony....an Atheist Jesus bring a thread back from the dead. I love teh internets :D

[psychofreak]

I'm a non-believer, but still consider myself Jewish...

And Matt, I just quoted you because you're the only person from MR I know in real life and have come across in a thread...

I'm an atheist, and I will never (without proof of god) accept any religion beyond being an ancient attempt at making sense of the world.

[Chef Medeski]

I'm an atheist, and I will never (without proof of god) accept any religion beyond being an ancient attempt at making sense of the world.

But of course some things still aren't explained by science. And what if you had a religion that actually accepted science and developed along with science in order to make a "modern day" religion where there are no contradictions between science and religion.


I'm down for small religion. Definetly have strong faith, but do belief most religions are an ancient attempt at making sense of the world and now we need a modern-day attempt at making sense of the world. Simple. Religions become outdated. They should be changed.

[Don't panic]

But of course some things still aren't explained by science. And what if you had a religion that actually accepted science and developed along with science in order to make a "modern day" religion where there are no contradictions between science and religion.


I'm down for small religion. Definetly have strong faith, but do belief most religions are an ancient attempt at making sense of the world and now we need a modern-day attempt at making sense of the world. Simple. Religions become outdated. They should be changed.

but wouldn't this imply that also a modern-religion attempt would become outdated? if you think religion is just a temporary fix to explain some phenomena that science hasn't explained yet, but eventually will, can you truly believe? or do you see more as a moral guidance, with some value and necessary authority but without an intrinsic truth?

[Queso]

but wouldn't this imply that also a modern-religion attempt would become outdated? if you think religion is just a temporary fix to explain some phenomena that science hasn't explained yet, but eventually will, can you truly believe? or do you see more as a moral guidance, with some value and necessary authority but without an intrinsic truth?
Surely if the central tenet of a religion was that the truth of the universe would only be revealed over time, each scientific discovery would actually affirm the faithful.

It would also speed scientific progress, as those who seek new knowledge would see themselves as working for their almighty. Disproving previous knowledge would be seen as part of god's plan.

[Don't panic]

Surely if the central tenet of a religion was that the truth of the universe would only be revealed over time, each scientific discovery would actually affirm the faithful.

It would also speed scientific progress, as those who seek new knowledge would see themselves as working for their almighty. Disproving previous knowledge would be seen as part of god's plan.

is this new religion called "science" by any chance? :)

[Queso]

is this new religion called "science" by any chance? :)
Scientology? :D

Maybe not....

[twistedlegato]

Im a Bahai!

Better add that!

[Don't panic]

Scientology? :D

Maybe not....

no.
scientology is the same wacky stuff as all the old religions and has very little to do with science.

what you described before is basically the belief in science itself.
which makes all the sense.

[princealfie]

LDS and lovin' it :D

[Chef Medeski]

but wouldn't this imply that also a modern-religion attempt would become outdated? if you think religion is just a temporary fix to explain some phenomena that science hasn't explained yet, but eventually will, can you truly believe? or do you see more as a moral guidance, with some value and necessary authority but without an intrinsic truth?

Isnt science the same thing? Something is true until proven false. Newtonian physics was proven false. Do you no longer believe in science because its absolutely true? Of course not, you understand that its the best you got. You assume its the absolute truth until you can disprove it. And thus I treat religion as a science. Yes my current beliefs will become outdated in future centuries with new revelations about the universe create new hypocrisies with my current faith and science. And then at that time one would have to revise it in order to cope with that world. But right now my beliefs make sense in the modern day circumstances. Right now my beliefs have helped me and made me a better person and they have not infringed on any others. My beliefs make sense and really Ive never seen been proven wrong through all debate, so why isn't it good enough? I don't see why religion can't be treated as a science?

[Chef Medeski]

is this new religion called "science" by any chance? :)

It is really. Its viewing spirituality and religion as science. The term science commonly referring to the natural sciences is a way to explain phenomenon in the natural world. Well my religion through logic and a certain defining principles seeks to define what spirituality or the other world is like. So its purely the belief in science in spirituality. And while it is harder to use empirical data in spirituality I think Einstein shows how not all science has to necessarily be derived from direct empirical data and experimentation such as in his formulation of the theory of Special Relativity. He thought about it, set some defining rules, and engineered an entire new system to replace Newtonian physics. All in his mind. I think the same thing can be done in spirituality and that is what my religion has sought out to do. Simple and most importantly a modern day approach to religion that makes sense in every explanation.

Oh and its not a cult or sceintology where you charge money for religion. Which is just nuts. Its religion that believes in tolerance, opennes, and freedom. So its not a couple nut jobs in the woods on shrooms deciphiring the universe.

[Don't panic]

chef, you make some interesting points

i agree with you to a degree, but (and i may just discuss semantics here) isn't an essential characteristic of a 'religion' the belief in one or more 'superior powers', in the supernatural in other words?

and if you accept that with increased scientific knowledge nature can be eventually explained -without having to resort to some sort of divine intervention that can't (and shouldn't) be questioned- is yours still a 'religion'?

once the 'divine' is eliminated as a 'necessity', even in perspective, you have a phylosophical system rooted in reality, not in superstition, hence not a 'religion'.

The fact that current scientific knowledge might be insufficient to explain some phenomena (but with the expectation that future science will), doesn't make a current explanation based on the supernatural 'true'.

In the past, natural events where explained as acts of god(s) that are now perfectly explainable by scientific means. Those explantions were reasonable and consistent with their knowledge.
but they weren't 'true' then as they aren't now.

[SMM]

Religion should be a benefit, or benign to the society it exists in. The judgement as to whether it achieves either status should not be self-determining. It should be how the society perceives it.

The general feeling seems to be, "religion is a personal matter and people should be free to practice their faith as they see fit". It made sense when religions needed protection from government, and society. Now, Government and society needs protection from some of the religions.

Most western religions are christian and the members share a fellowship amongst other church members. They are usually content with that. Where they begin to cross the line with me is when they start coming to my door. When they organize to force society to live according to their beliefs, they are totally out of line. They have betrayed the right given to them to practice their faith, by denying those same rights to others. At that point, I do not see them as a religious entity, but rather a social-political group.

[Chef Medeski]

chef, you make some interesting points

i agree with you to a degree, but (and i may just discuss semantics here) isn't an essential characteristic of a 'religion' the belief in one or more 'superior powers', in the supernatural in other words?

and if you accept that with increased scientific knowledge nature can be eventually explained -without having to resort to some sort of divine intervention that can't (and shouldn't) be questioned- is yours still a 'religion'?

once the 'divine' is eliminated as a 'necessity', even in perspective, you have a phylosophical system rooted in reality, not in superstition, hence not a 'religion'.

The fact that current scientific knowledge might be insufficient to explain some phenomena (but with the expectation that future science will), doesn't make a current explanation based on the supernatural 'true'.

In the past, natural events where explained as acts of god(s) that are now perfectly explainable by scientific means. Those explantions were reasonable and consistent with their knowledge.
but they weren't 'true' then as they aren't now.
And some of our theories of science will be proven wrong 2morrow. They are not absolutely true either. Yes certainty is a bear of a guy.

But one thing, I cant explain this truly on my own. In no ways am I eloquent enough to express the complete complexity of the idea. And I do believe in God, and I'm sure science will never solve all the unknowns such as chance, luck, and the after life. It will never. The believe is that there is divine intervention, most certainly, so I guess its hard to follow your argument if the basis of it is having no divine intervention. If you want do find this topic interesting and wish to read more about it, just PM me and I'll give you a name of some of our books. Even if you are not interested in the religion, they are interesting reads to look at the history of religions from a spirtual stand point. Since most books take the fact that their religion is the one, true religion it is interesting to get a spiritual explanation that is not self-assured that this is the forever perfect way. So I have a couple nice books to read just to mull over the ideas. Just to think how religion could co-exist with science. If you are interested PM me. I assure you they explain things a lot more eloquently than I do and you will not be able to find no such contradictions in the theory once its well-explained.

[NATO]

Non-Theist.

Religion and its believers both amuse and irritate me on so many levels.

[FreeState]

Mormon (I.e. Latter Day Saint)


Born and raised Mormon - and not happy about it. Not a believer any longer but still claim it (its so ingrained in my family its impossible not to identify with it culturally).

Oh and GodBless you have a typo its "Latter-day Saint".

[Thomas Veil]

Im a follower of Heaven's Gate.That was a terrible movie. :D

[TequilaBoobs]

That was a terrible movie. :D

dont know what movie youre referring to, was it the one aboot the video game? most of the followers of heaven's gate commited suicide together a few years ago. I didn't get the memo in time...

[Thomas Veil]

iMDB is your friend. (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0080855/)

"Heaven's Gate" was considered to be an enormous bomb. It didn't end the career of Michael Cimino, but it did hurt his attempts to make other films.

[kainjow]

I'm an atheist, and I will never (without proof of god) accept any religion beyond being an ancient attempt at making sense of the world.

Proving God exists or doesn't exist will never happen beyond a case-by-case basis. The people who do believe in some type of god believe because they grew up with the idea, or some type of traumatic event occurred in their life and the existence of a god is the only plausible solution.

Prove to me God doesn't exist and I will be an atheist. Prove to me he does, and I will be religious. :)

[skinnylegs]

I'm Roman Catholic.

LDS and lovin' it Location: Salt Lake City UT.....imagine that. LOL

[FFTT]

I tend to believe there is some sort of superior entity by what ever name we choose to call it, but I absolutely do not trust "the church" or man's attempt to explain the unknown.

If the Word of God is beyond question, then why were so many ancient
works hidden or destroyed?

It was the leadership of the orthodox church who decided what we should accept as truth and what we should consider heresy.

Should we not be able to study everything and make that determination for ourselves?

It certainly makes you wonder what knowledge may still be hidden in the sands of the ancient world.

How far would the church go to hide the truth from us?

[KingYaba]

I find church redundant. There is absolutely no point, in my mind, to attend a church and sing about how sovereign the lord is. It's all talk and no walk. If one truly believes in Jesus and his principles, might I suggest spending sunday mornings at a homeless shelter helping people. Attending a service, a mosque, a temple is not for me.

I fully understand churches do community outreach and I applaud them for it. Just look at the way churches stepped up after katrina.

The thing is I have issues with full-time priests, like I do with full-time politicians. I don't trust them!

Enough of the anti-church rant, here is my stance. I meditate by myself on occasion. I read a lot of literature and poetry on the subject of religion and life. Plain and simple I do not know if there is a god or gods. I do not know why I was placed here on Earth. I do not know the why. But I figure this will be answered when I die (I hope).

[skunk]

Plain and simple I do not know if there is a god or gods. I do not know why I was placed here on Earth. I do not know the why. But I figure this will be answered when I die (I hope).If there are no gods, it won't. You can't get much plainer and simpler than that.

[FFTT]

In all of nature there is balance.

So where is Mrs. God or shall we say a female counterpart to the almighty?

Are we so full of ourselves that we would deny God a companion?

The orthodox church would have us believe that any such thoughts to be heresy, but I would argue that they simply did not wish to give any sense of power or authority to women.

[wmmk]

In all of nature there is balance.

So where is Mrs. God or shall we say a female counterpart to the almighty?

Are we so full of ourselves that we would deny God a companion?

The orthodox church would have us believe that any such thoughts to be heresy, but I would argue that they simply did not wish to give any sense of power or authority to women.

Or what if G-d herself was really Ms. G-d?

[DakotaGuy]

I was born and raised Catholic, however as I became older I lost my way in the church. Since I am 30 and not married it was almost like I was looked down upon, by the members with big families. I was tired of the dog and pony show.

I now attend the United Church of Christ. It is a liberal church, but I feel much more welcomed by the members. We spend more time in worship then worrying about what everyone else is doing.

I think the straw that broke the camels back with regards to attending the Catholic Church is when last fall they played a CD during the mass right before the election telling us how we should vote on the abortion law and the marriage amendment. I was offended by it.

[FFTT]

Or what if G-d herself was really Ms. G-d?



Well at least we know who's boss right? :D

It just makes more sense to me that there would be this male-female balance.

The ancient Sumerian texts spoke of male and female counterparts long before the Bible was drafted.

It saddens me to think of what the church elders may have hidden or destroyed in order to enforce their way of thinking.

[wmmk]

Well at least we know who's boss right? :D

It just makes more sense to me that there would be this male-female balance.

The ancient Sumerian texts spoke of male and female counterparts long before the Bible was drafted.

It saddens me to think of what the church elders may have hidden or destroyed in order to enforce their way of thinking.
Yeah. I was just throwing around the idea. I actually don't feel that any spiritual being could be classified with gender. For that matter, I doubt a spiritual being would even have physical form. To me, G-d is a concept, and a wonderful one at that. It's easier for me to pray to something that I find feasible and is closer to me than the archetypal G-d figure.

This flexibility of ways to think of higher beings and afterlife really are what make me love Judaism. It's just nice to be able to do good for reasons other than fear of Satan swallowing me up if I make a mistake.

[Stampyhead]

I'm an atheist, and I will never (without proof of god) accept any religion beyond being an ancient attempt at making sense of the world.

How do you define "proof of God?" Even if God himself came down and said "here I am, I exist" people still wouldn't believe. You can't gain proof of spiritual things using your physical senses.

[.Andy]

You can't gain proof of spiritual things using your physical senses.
Then you can't prove spiritual things period.

[FFTT]

In the grand scale of things we don't even have enough matter to matter much.

[solvs]

It helps if you think of god as more of a concept than a person.

[juanm]

Another atheist here. :)

[Blue Velvet]

Just one of these at a time, thanks.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=334845

;)