Just Curious.....Religion Poll

[iMacZealot]

I just wanted to see what everyone here believes in. No harm intended. Just to see what everyone believes in.

EDIT: How do I make a poll?? lol

[FFTT]

I believe many good people are being mislead by organized religion.

Even so, people of all faiths should be free to follow their hearts as long
as they do not force their beliefs on others.

[stoid]

I am a member of the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod, born into and raised into. I certainly believe in Jesus Christ as my only means of salvation, though I do not necessarily agree with every fine detail of the LC-MS or any other specific Christian denomination's dogma. I consider myself to be a personal and political conservative, while a social liberal. (Basically, I'm a 'prude' and I believe that the government is best when they don't interfere, but as long as other's actions do not affect my life then they should be allowed to live however they want.)

I believe many good people are being mislead by organized religion.

This is what pains me the most about Christianity, and Catholicism seems to be the worst at this. The hardest part is not my disagreement with their belief, but that many fellow students at my university reject God solely because the felt cheated or scammed by the church. It seems as though many Christian churches get so wrapped up in proclaiming the nuance of their faith that they forget about the key ingredients of God's unconditional love.

[GodBless]

What is your religious (or lack of religious) affiliation?:

- Christian (Open To All Types)
- Christian (Protestant With Denomination Affiliation)
- Christian (Nondenominational Bible-Based Protestant)
- Christian (Catholic)
- "Christian" (Special/Small Following Group)
- Messianic Jew
- Jew
- Mormon (I.e. Latter Day Saint)
- Islamic (Sunni)
- Islamic (Shiite)
- Agnostic
- Atheist
- Buddhist
- Hindu
- Sikh
- Wiccan
- Pagan
- Tribal
- Primal-Indigenoustic
- Chinese Traditionalist
- African Traditionalist
- Confucianist
- Juche
- Spiritist
- Baha'i
- Janist
- Shintoist
- Cao Dai
- Zoroastrianist
- Tenrikyoist
- Rastafarianist
- Cultist
- Satanism
- Unitarian Universalist
- Scientologist
- Other/Small Religions (Jedi, Personal Religion, Etc.)
- None/Not Religious

I may have spelled some of them wrong so please tell me so that I can correct them if needed.

If you have an even further sub-category be sure to let us know when we discuss. ;)

[Chundles]

Atheist, but it's not a religion.

[GodBless]

Atheist, but it's not a religion.Good point. ;)

Edit: Changed poll question.

[liketom]

Jedi :cool:

religion jedi am i

[GodBless]

What is your religious affiliation?:
- Christian (Nondenominational Bible-Based Protestant)

If you have an even further sub-category be sure to let us know when we discuss.For more information about my beliefs click here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2589393&postcount=81), here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2601031&postcount=398) and visit this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=214531).

[yg17]

Atheist, and I never will be anything else. And I certainly don't consider Atheism a religion either, I despise religion.

[GodBless]

Jedi :cool:

religion jedi am iAre you referring to belief in the "theology/doctrine" that is portrayed in Star Wars films? :confused:

I despise religion.What led you to this conclusion?

[liketom]

Are you referring to belief in the "theology/doctrine" that is portrayed in Star Wars films? :confused:

have a look here at Wiki Jedi census phenomenon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedi_religion

[eva01]

Atheist, but it's not a religion.

Same

[Chundles]

Are you referring to belief in the "theology/doctrine" that is portrayed in Star Wars films? :confused:

Referring they are.

[scem0]

I'm agnostic leaning towards the belief in an existent divine force of some kind. What that force may be is beyond me. It's probably perfect (Anselm), it's probably the first cause (Aristotle), it's probably the only thing that doesn't exist contingently (Ibn Sina), and it probably confers all meaning in this world. :)

I think there's great philosophical evidence for some kind of divinity, but trying to guess what that divinity is, or what it believes, is just silly.

e

[codo]

Not religions. I hate the ideology of religion and its use to make people conform to irrelevant norms and vales and repress people.

[FFTT]

Those who seek wealth and power have always been very clever in the way
they manipulate the masses.

[GodBless]

I'm agnostic leaning towards the belief in an existent divine force of some kind. What that force may be is beyond me. It's probably perfect (Anselm), it's probably the first cause (Aristotle), it's probably the only thing that doesn't exist contingently (Ibn Sina), and it probably confers all meaning in this world.

I think there's great philosophical evidence for some kind of divinity, but trying to guess what that divinity is, or what it believes, is just silly.I'd recommend reading this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=214531). Throughout the thread I relate real-world science, questions and circumstances to the Bible and faith in Jesus. ;)

[FFTT]

I have great faith in knowing the difference between the Word Of God
and the self serving divisive words of men.

[Thomas Veil]

Formally I am a Catholic. Although I have been moved by recent events (the actions of narrow-minded, hypocritical right-wing "Christians") to consider myself more of an independent, non-affiliated believer than part of any religious movement.

And though I'm not really tempted to re-join any particular religion, Foundationism has a rather obvious appeal to me.

[GodBless]

Foundationism has a rather obvious appeal to me.Are you referring to fundamentalism? :confused:

[Macmaniac]

Well you left out the Religious Society of Friends(Quakers) thats what I consider myself. Although I am more of a holiday Quaker. Our family never really goes to any kind of meeting they are all too far away, so its really more of a belief system for us.

[Queso]

I have no interest in organised religions. All of them are perversions of a central message and tainted by centuries of humans playing politics. However, I have no problem if people wish to get through life by finding comfort in them. Whatever works for you is my attitude.

BTW, I was raised as a Union Baptist.

[GodBless]

Well you left out the Religious Society of Friends(Quakers) thats what I consider myself.I'm sorry I thought that the Quakers would fit into the "Christian (Protestant With Denomination Affiliation)" category. :o

On a side note -- I do have respect for the Quakers.

[tobefirst]

I am a practicing Catholic who leans heavily toward believing in universalism.

[Chundles]

You forgot the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Better add it lest He smite you with his noodley appendage.

[Peterkro]

Atheist with some impatience with godbotherers a idea that reached it's peak in the middle ages but has no relevance to present day thought.Don't wish to offend those who see it as relevant,some are certainly not backward at trying to spread their ideas.:mad:

[GodBless]

Note: I added two more categories.

You forgot the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Better add it lest He smite you with his noodley appendage.Hopefully "cultic" fits the liking of FSM followers. ;)

[Thomas Veil]

I'm nominally a Catholic, and while I recognize that there are disillusioned Catholics, I'm not sure exactly what kind of "scam" stoid is referring to.

But then, I went to a Jesuit school, and Jesuits are kind of the open-minded, intellectual, liberal side of the Church.

The hypocrisy of right-wing "Christians" has driven me from participation in any one religion right now, and while I'm still a believer, I consider myself an unaffiliated one.

I'm not going to be joining any church anytime soon, but I do like the philosophy behind Foundationism.

[Chundles]

Note: I added two more categories.

Where's the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

[liketom]

Note: I added two more categories.
but not Jedi ?

you have Scientologist after all:rolleyes:

[eva01]

Where's the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

Where is my own personal religion? that i am going to create

[Chundles]

Where is my own personal religion? that i am going to create

Yeah, you shouldn't be forced into the "other" category.

[GodBless]

Wow... such small followings. If I listed everything a poll wouldn't work too well -- so just stick with the other category for those of you who don't fit elsewhere.

[Peterkro]

Maybe just a heathen category for us non-believers.

[liketom]

Wow... such small followings. If I listed everything a poll wouldn't work too well -- so just stick with the other category for those of you who don't fit elsewhere.
but again you have Scientologist

[GodBless]

but again you have ScientologistHow do you like the change?

[yg17]

What led you to this conclusion?

People like you perhaps?

[Queso]

GodBless, I'm not actually seeing a poll, just a list in your first post. Makes it a little difficult to vote.

[Chundles]

Wow... such small followings. If I listed everything a poll wouldn't work too well -- so just stick with the other category for those of you who don't fit elsewhere.

Yeah, just arsing about.

But on a serious note, where's Satanism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism)? Those guys are a fully organised religion with their own symbols, rituals (the black mass) and all sorts of stuff. Lots of followers too, I think it needs a category.

I'm really serious about this one.

[ksz]

I equate organized religion with organized crime. To me religion is our species' fabricated answers (note the plural) to questions we cannot (yet?) answer. It also serves as a psychological blanket against some of the harsher realities of life, strife and death. All too often and all too quickly religion gets perverted into evil. Those who think they've figured it all out begin to commit atrocities against those who believe in their own different fabrications.

Five different people with five different beliefs will assert five different truths. Is there any such thing as 5 different truths? Religion to me is therefore the pursuit of whatever one wishes and desires to believe. There is no upholdable truth in religion.

[liketom]

How do you like the change?
happy am I

:)

[GodBless]

Yeah, just arsing about.

But on a serious note, where's Satanism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism)? Those guys are a fully organised religion with their own symbols, rituals (the black mass) and all sorts of stuff. Lots of followers too, I think it needs a category.

I'm really serious about this one.I don't know how I forgot that one -- but it's there now.

[stoid]

I'm nominally a Catholic, and while I recognize that there are disillusioned Catholics, I'm not sure exactly what kind of "scam" stoid is referring to.

To clarify, I don't feel scammed, nor do I fully understand how others have felt scammed by the church. I'm not suggesting that the Catholic (or any specific denomination that I can recall off the top of my head, aside from Scientology) is a scam.

I only say that because I have had others ask me how I can follow a church that is nothing but a scam. Perhaps they feel that the church invented the notion of sinfulness so that we will repent and come to church and give them money?

[jelloshotsrule]

Formally I am a Catholic. Although I have been moved by recent events (the actions of narrow-minded, hypocritical right-wing "Christians") to consider myself more of an independent, non-affiliated believer than part of any religious movement.

And though I'm not really tempted to re-join any particular religion, Foundationism has a rather obvious appeal to me.

1. background sounds about the same as mine.

2. do you go to mass at all anymore? just curious.

3. what is foundationism?

[sushi]

I'm sorry I thought that the Quakers would fit into the "Christian (Protestant With Denomination Affiliation)" category. :o

On a side note -- I do have respect for the Quakers.
You might want to ad:

- New Order Brethren
- Old Order Brethren
- Mennonite
- Lutheran

While Christian of some sort, I don't think these fall under Christian (Protestant with Denomination Affiliation) or "Christian" (Special/Small Following Group). Just going by the folks that I know who practice these religions. They would say they do not fit into this category.

[Josh]

Christian - Protestant, though "Christimuslihindujew" would be more fitting.

However, I am not one to affiliate with any particular group and adopt the thinking of that sole group while denouncing any ideas from another group.

I study religion and philosophy vigorously, and I think it is foolish for anyone to allow a group to do their thinking for them.

From my experience, every single religion is the same at its core. It is the man-made "law" and manipulation that makes them different. Every society has contorted their dominant religion to suit their needs, and every religeous fanatic will tell your their religion is correct and all others are false. I will tell you this: all religions, their cores - not the man-made dogma, are correct.

Religions today are a lot like linux. On the outside, they can appear very different. But if you strip away all the additional additives and get to the core (kernel) they are much more similar than you'd ever imagine.

There is no one "true" religion that is above all others.

I will also not argue/debate religion. It is not a thing to be debated. If you are worshiping your God, whether you call him God, Allah, or Samuel - it does not matter. You are worshiping creation, life, and the same thing everyone else in every other religion is worshiping.

Only through cohesion, not conversion, will the world know peace and what it really means to worship your creator.

[GodBless]

"Christimuslihindujew" would be more fitting.Getting kind of close to Unitarianism-Universalism wouldn't you say?

Reading on I think Confusionism would describe your thoughts best -- which in my opinion is very odd. It's believing that God is out to trick us. I've experienced anything but that.

[Josh]

Getting kind of close to Unitarianism-Universalism wouldn't you say?

No, not really. Not universalism, that's for sure.

[jelloshotsrule]

Reading on I think Confusionism would describe your thoughts best --

as in, confusion? or confucious?

[XNine]

I believe there is a higher force, I believe there are good and evil forces, but that's all FAITH. It's not based on religion, it's not based on bed time stories. It's based on personal experiences and feelings.

[GodBless]

as in, confusion? or confucious?You'll have to describe the differences between the two before I can answer the question. Perhaps I mixed them up. :confused:

[Josh]

Reading on I think Confusionism would describe your thoughts best -- which in my opinion is very odd. It's believing that God is out to trick us. I've experienced anything but that.

Not quite. Confused are those who let others do their thinking for them and lead themselves like sheep into mass "preachings" to hear one man or woman's interpretation of the perversed and manipulated text they call The Bible, The Torah, The Koran, or whatever sacred text is affiliated with their religion.

To read the books of of one religion and let dust settle on the books of others is for confused, small minds.

[scem0]

Reading on I think Confusionism would describe your thoughts best -- which in my opinion is very odd. It's believing that God is out to trick us. I've experienced anything but that.

Erm, Confucianism is hardly that. It is more of a philosophy than a religion, it is not theistic, and its root is in tradition. Confucians believe that we should live in the spirit of Jen, which means being an upstanding citizen, following traditional rules, obeying one's elders, etc.

Now I'm confused along with Jello... are you talking about Confucius, the Chinese philosopher, or confusion?

e

[jelloshotsrule]

You'll have to describe the differences between the two before I can answer the question. Perhaps I mixed them up. :confused:

well, quite simply, confucious is an ancient chinese thinker.... whereas confusion is when you can't tell your head from your ass

pretty big difference..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucious

[stoid]

From my experience, every single religion is the same at its core.

I believe that you could not be more wrong.

My faith is based on complete and total redemption by God's grace with absolutely nothing on my part. Other faiths (even Catholicism, a closely related faith to my own) require some action (good works, sacrifice, etc.) on the part of the sinner to attain eternal life.

[Josh]

I believe that you could not be more wrong.

My faith is based on complete and total redemption by God's grace with absolutely nothing on my part. Other faiths (even Catholicism, a closely related faith to my own) require some action (good works, sacrifice, etc.) on the part of the sinner to attain eternal life.
And that is your faith.

Who are you to tell me that your faith is greater than mine?

While I disagree, I cannot call your faith wrong.

But I have to ask: Is that your faith, or the faith of millions of others that have taught it to you?

[GodBless]

Not quite. Confused are those who let others do their thinking for them and lead themselves like sheep into mass "preachings" to hear one man or woman's interpretation of the perversed and manipulated text they call The Bible.Well first of all I was referring to the religion that thought that a higher power was behind making all the religions to confuse people about god/a higher power.

Secondly if the Bible is so manipulated then why is it the most accurate historical text from the it's time period and any time period before it? Also if it is perverse then why is it scientifically reasonable? -- Here's the link to that thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=214531) again.

[GodBless]

I'll chat later. Bye. :)

[yellow]

I follow the teachings of JesusSpanker.

[stoid]

And that is your faith.

Who are you to tell me that your faith is greater than mine?

While I disagree, I cannot call your faith wrong.

But I have to ask: Is that your faith, or the faith of millions of others that have taught it to you?

Yes, my faith is not your faith. All faiths are not alike. All faiths DO NOT lead to the same end. That is my point.

While I was raised into the Lutheran faith, I have studied it to the point where I think that the Lutheran's believe closest to what I believe, and therefore I consider myself to still be Lutheran. I certainly don't agree on all points with my parents or pastor, but we respect one another's different views and are able to focus on worshiping God, and following His teachings.

Did my upbringing effect my choices, I'm certain it did. But I am who I am, and I make my own choices, and tearing myself to shreds over trying to be a 'me' beyond that what I am is an exercise in futility.

[GodBless]

I believe that you could not be more wrong.

My faith is based on complete and total redemption by God's grace with absolutely nothing on my part. Other faiths (even Catholicism, a closely related faith to my own) require some action (good works, sacrifice, etc.) on the part of the sinner to attain eternal life.Yes. This is one thing that makes Bible-Based Christianity different from all other religions -- its core.

[ksz]

Religions today are a lot like linux. On the outside, they can appear very different. But if you strip away all the additional additives and get to the core (kernel) they are much more similar than you'd ever imagine.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but religion is NOT like the Linux core. The core itself is not usable; you need the layers and layers of code built on top of the core to get to something workable.

I don't agree that all religions have the same core. But even if I did, I would not be defining religion, I would only be defining some vague abstract core. People do not identify with the core; they identify with the layers and layers of dogma built upon the core. They fight for that dogma; they kill for it; they close their minds to any change in that dogma.

In Afghanistan, a man who converted from Islam to Christianity was condemned to death until Western powers intervened on his behalf. You can check in, but you can't check out. Christian history (particularly Roman Catholic) is filled with genocide (the eradication of Pagans) and unspeakable cruelty. More recently, there is Andrea Yates (http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/07/10/yates.trial.ap/index.html) who drowned her five children because, "In their innocence, I thought they would go to heaven."

A suggested reading is Karen Armstrong's book A History of God. Fascinating story about the invention and evolution of religion to suit prevailing needs.

[yg17]

Secondly if the Bible is so manipulated then why is it the most accurate historical text from the it's time period and any time period before it? Also if it is perverse then why is it scientifically reasonable? -- Here's the link to that thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=214531) again.
oh jesus ***** christ....not this again.

[Queso]

Secondly if the Bible is so manipulated then why is it the most accurate historical text from the it's time period and any time period before it? Also if it is perverse then why is it scientifically reasonable? -- Here's the link to that thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=214531) again.
Nice way to completely forget about China, not to mention Egypt :rolleyes:

[Josh]

Secondly if the Bible is so manipulated then why is it the most accurate historical text from the it's time period and any time period before it? Also if it is perverse then why is it scientifically reasonable? -- Here's the link to that thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=214531) again.

The Bible is nothing close to accurate or well-preserved. The Bible is a collection of smaller books that were compiled into one (called a Canon). These smaller books were a) written no sooner than 30-80 years after (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_history#New_Testament.2FGreek_Bible) the death of Jesus b) hand-selected by men (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon) which to include and which not to in the full composition c) composed of second-hand stories and d) created SEVERAL different versions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible#Bible_versions_and_translations)of The Bible.

The earliest references to Jesus are from Paul - who never even met Jesus. Paul had "seen" Jesus only in "visions."

If you wish to call that sort of compilation accurate or well preserved, you might as well leave the rest of your facts at the door.

You have read the Bible...but have you read about it?

[yellow]

Secondly if the Bible is so manipulated then why is it the most accurate historical text from the it's time period and any time period before it?

What could you possibly be basing this on?
Why is the bible more accurate than the torah (slightly older than the bible)?
And you don't think that after 1500+ years or oral retellings of stories, translations, dialects, that it's in the EXACT same place as it's pieces were when it was first thrown together X years after jesus supposedly lived and died?

Seriously?

Wow, blind faith.

Remember, in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. Bow before me.

[atszyman]

...Remember, in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. Bow before me.

Wait... Jesus only had one eye!?

[yellow]

Wait... Jesus only had one eye!?

Who knows how many he had when they made up the character?

[yg17]

Wait... Jesus only had one eye!?

He had 2, but one was covered up by an eye patch because he was a pirate. Jesus was so powerful, he was able to pirate Metallica's music 2,000 years before they recorded their first song.

[atszyman]

He had 2, but one was covered up by an eye patch because he was a pirate. Jesus was so powerful, he was able to pirate Metallica's music 2,000 years before they recorded their first song.

so he had one good eye, a hook for a hand, and a peg leg?...

Next your going to tell me he wasn't a long haired white dude with blue eyes ;)

[Dont Hurt Me]

Man is a screwed up mess because of religion & tradition, sorry not me:)

[zimv20]

shouldn't the list in the first post at least have been alphabetized?

[Josh]

shouldn't the list in the first post at least have been alphabetized?
No, because then he wouldn't have been able to list Christianity first. ;)

[zimv20]

No, because then he wouldn't have been able to list Christianity first. ;)
exactly.

[Queso]

Why does it say Jew, Christian, Agnostic, but then Islamic? Surely the equivalent term is Muslim?

[zimv20]

Why does it say Jew, Christian, Agnostic, but then Islamic? Surely the equivalent term is Muslim?
or Islam. 'Islamic' is an adjective.

[yellow]

Jebus godBless. "know thine enemy" :rolleyes:

[yg17]

And he needs to add Pastafarian to his list :D

[thegreatluke]

I'm a Unitarian Universalist.

Note the spelling. :)

Considering only 0.02% of the American population is UU, I'll probably be the only person to say this.

[Chacala_Nayarit]

atheist

[princealfie]

LDS aka Mormon :)

[~Shard~]

What could you possibly be basing this on?
Why is the bible more accurate than the torah (slightly older than the bible)?
And you don't think that after 1500+ years or oral retellings of stories, translations, dialects, that it's in the EXACT same place as it's pieces were when it was first thrown together X years after jesus supposedly lived and died?

The Bible is nothing close to accurate or well-preserved. The Bible is a collection of smaller books that were compiled into one (called a Canon). These smaller books were a) written no sooner than 30-80 years after the death of Jesus b) hand-selected by men which to include and which not to in the full composition c) composed of second-hand stories and d) created SEVERAL different versions of The Bible.

Completely agree. I wonder how many Christians have read the Gospel of Mary or the Gospel of Judas. Probably not many, since the Church didn't choose to include them - hell, many Christians probably aren't even aware of their existence and their content. :rolleyes: Sad, really...

Wow, blind faith.

Exactly. There was an earlier comment along the same lines I think, regarding being confused and just blindly following teachings like a mindless sheep...

He had 2, but one was covered up by an eye patch because he was a pirate. Jesus was so powerful, he was able to pirate Metallica's music 2,000 years before they recorded their first song.

Pirate?!? Now you're talking my language! Arrr, I's believe in ye Jebus!!! :D

[yellow]

drug user

[leekohler]

I was raised Methodist in a fundamentalist area of Ohio (where there are enough churches for every single person to have his own). I've never seen a bigger bunch of hypocrites, liars and adulterers in my life. It's a means of control for many people.

I do realize that many people find some sort of comfort in religion, but I have found it to be frightening, strict and flat out unloving.

[stoid]

Completely agree. I wonder how many Christians have read the Gospel of Mary or the Gospel of Judas. Probably not many, since the Church didn't choose to include them - hell, many Christians probably aren't even aware of their existence and their content. :rolleyes: Sad, really...

So, are you basing this "the church is misleading you!" thing on actual knowledge, or on that fictional conspiritorial book by Dan Brown?

The church leaders at the Council of Nicea chose the books they did becaue they unanimously argeed that Jesus was fully God. Those is disagreement (the Arians) were convinced in the course of the council be the evidence presented that Jesus was God.

The books rejected were generally written later than thouse included, and did not point to Jesus as God. Now, if you don't believe that Jesus is God, then Christianity is not for you. But I believe that Jesus is God, and therefore consider myself to fal under the general heading of Christianity.

Matthew - 60-65AD
Mark - 66-70AD (maybe as late as 90AD)
Luke - 60-64AD (maybe as late as 100AD)
John - 65-85AD (maybe as late as 120AD)

Mary - 120AD (maybe as late as 180AD)
Judas - probably sometime before 180AD

[Peterkro]

Jesus, get over this now, religion superstition hobgoblins call it what you will,arguing the toss over some obscure scratchings on some parchment that may or may not have been written 2 or 3 hundred years either side of someone who may or may not have been called Jesus is a waste of bleeding space.It's been done to death by bloody christians who come here and try to make out it has some relevance to anybody or anything.

[leekohler]

Jesus, get over this now, religion superstition hobgoblins call it what you will,arguing the toss over some obscure scratchings on some parchment that may or may not have been written 2 or 3 hundred years either side of someone who may or may not have been called Jesus is a waste of bleeding space.It's been done to death by bloody christians who come here and try to make out it has some relevance to anybody or anything.

Agreed. It is splitting hairs at this point, no?

[yg17]

So, are you basing this "the church is misleading you!" thing on actual knowledge, or on that fictional conspiritorial book by Dan Brown?

The church leaders at the Council of Nicea chose the books they did becaue they unanimously argeed that Jesus was fully God. Those is disagreement (the Arians) were convinced in the course of the council be the evidence presented that Jesus was God.

The books rejected were generally written later than thouse included, and did not point to Jesus as God. Now, if you don't believe that Jesus is God, then Christianity is not for you. But I believe that Jesus is God, and therefore consider myself to fal under the general heading of Christianity.

Matthew - 60-65AD
Mark - 66-70AD (maybe as late as 90AD)
Luke - 60-64AD (maybe as late as 100AD)
John - 65-85AD (maybe as late as 120AD)

Mary - 120AD (maybe as late as 180AD)
Judas - probably sometime before 180AD

So if jesus is god, and then there's the other god who created everything, then there's 2 gods, and isn't that a direct violation of the 1st commandment?

[w_parietti22]

I was born into a Catholic family and consider myself a practicing Catholic but I don't believe in many things the church says. For example: I'm pro-choice and am for gay rights.

[Josh]

So, are you basing this "the church is misleading you!" thing on actual knowledge, or on that fictional conspiritorial book by Dan Brown?

The church leaders at the Council of Nicea chose the books they did becaue they unanimously argeed that Jesus was fully God. Those is disagreement (the Arians) were convinced in the course of the council be the evidence presented that Jesus was God.

The books rejected were generally written later than thouse included, and did not point to Jesus as God. Now, if you don't believe that Jesus is God, then Christianity is not for you. But I believe that Jesus is God, and therefore consider myself to fal under the general heading of Christianity.

Matthew - 60-65AD
Mark - 66-70AD (maybe as late as 90AD)
Luke - 60-64AD (maybe as late as 100AD)
John - 65-85AD (maybe as late as 120AD)

Mary - 120AD (maybe as late as 180AD)
Judas - probably sometime before 180AD

Perhaps you could show us where in The Bible Jesus claimed to be God?

Or, perhaps, I could show you where he assured others he wasn't.

You choose :)

[w_parietti22]

So if jesus is god, and then there's the other god who created everything, then there's 2 gods, and isn't that a direct violation of the 1st commandment?

There is actually 3 (the Holy Spirt) that "are all part of" one God. :rolleyes:

[yg17]

There is actually 3 (the Holy Spirt) that "are all part of" one God. :rolleyes:


Oh, so breaking the 10 commandments is OK if you slightly mess with the meaning of things and it's for the good of religion. Huh, I guess that explains the crusades.

[stoid]

Oh, so breaking the 10 commandments is OK if you slightly mess with the meaning of things and it's for the good of religion. Huh, I guess that explains the crusades.

Which is why it's bad for the decisions of a large and powerful organization to be run by one person. Example: George Bush has entire branches of the goernment that should be a check and balance on his actions, and look at that **** he's pulled! Imagine if he had free reign to do whatever he wanted. :eek:

[EGT]

I worship the (Power)book of his holiness, Steve Jobs. Much can be learned from it. It even has a dictionary! :eek:

[trebblekicked]

i was raised catholic, and still consider myself a catholic, but it's hard to be compassionate, educated and religious in today's world. since i can do more good on this earth pacticing the former two, the latter just falls into disrepair.

fwiw, my beef ain't with god; it's with the wolves who'd have you believe they were shepherds.

[jelloshotsrule]

i was raised catholic, and still consider myself a catholic, but it's hard to be compassionate, educated and religious in today's world. since i can do more good on this earth pacticing the former two, the latter just falls into disrepair.

fwiw, my beef ain't with god; it's with the wolves who'd have you believe they were shepherds.

sums me up nicely

i'm going to just start finding other peoples' posts who say what i want to say and then support them from now on. hah

[count chocula]

i wasnt raised with any religion in my life (my mom is agnostic and dad christian), when i was exposed to religion, i found it to be pretty ridiculous and hard for me to believe.
that said, i have nothing against anybody's religion, whatever works for you and helps you lead a good life is good for you to have. i live a very good life and i do not need religion to help me do so.
i believe things that can be proven, i am a very scientific person. The bible has been around a long time and is still popular, however, that does not make the things it says true. i have read the Mahabharata (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahabharata) and it has been around for a long time (dating back to the 5th century bce). this does not make it true and i do not believe the things it details to be true.

godbless, i think it is fantastic that christianity seems to work well for you and help you lead a good life. i do not need religion to help me live a good life. i do not believe in god or any higher power, nor do i believe in heaven, hell, the devil, etc. i'm an athiest to answer the question, but its not my religion. i do not practice not believing in god, its just the absence of religion.

i was disappointed to miss out on the last thread (i read the whole thing last night), but please dont make me need the hammer. i respect you're religious beliefs, so please respect mine. do not tell me i'm wrong, because i will not tell you that you are wrong.

[ham_man]

So if jesus is god, and then there's the other god who created everything, then there's 2 gods, and isn't that a direct violation of the 1st commandment?
It's called the Trinity. Jesus is one of three ways we experience God (one being). Get your facts right.

Personally, I am a Christian and a member in the United Church of Christ.

[Queso]

It's called the Trinity. Jesus is one of three ways we experience God (one being). Get your facts right.
He is getting his facts right. The Trinity only works if you believe. If you don't, it's a pretty ridiculous construct.

[yellow]

I've often wondered if the "holy spirit" was Everclear.

[Josh]

It's called the Trinity. Jesus is one of three ways we experience God (one being). Get your facts right.

Personally, I am a Christian and a member in the United Church of Christ.

And the 99+ forms a Hindu experiences God is wrong and polytheistic according to Christians. But if it's just 3, and Christians doing it...wellll....we'll let it slide :rolleyes:

[Queso]

I've often wondered if the "holy spirit" was Everclear.
It's vodka round at my place :D

[yg17]

It's called the Trinity. Jesus is one of three ways we experience God (one being). Get your facts right.

Personally, I am a Christian and a member in the United Church of Christ.


christains sure are good at twisting around their beliefs to ever so slightly fit within laws. Must explain why so many republicans are christain.

[Macmaniac]

I do realize that many people find some sort of comfort in religion, but I have found it to be frightening, strict and flat out unloving.
Not all religion is strict, flat and unloving. For instance, from my interpretation of Quakerism people should be accepting of everyone since we are all gods children no matter race, creed, or orientation.
Quakerism is also a lot less organized then Catholicism for instance, the emphasis of Quakerism is more around the persons personal relationship with god, be it through the bible prayer or other means.

I am really not much of a practicing Quaker, however I believe in many of the Quaker ideals, and I am proud of Quakerism's history here in America.

[2nyRiggz]

I follow God...not the religion background so I'm none but I do know that theres a God and Jesus that saved me....I don't limit myself to just one church.


Bless

[atszyman]

I always have a healthy dose of self doubt, it's what keeps me humble. That being said, no matter which religion you choose more than half of the people on the earth believe something different. Many of these people are smarter than me. Who am I to say that they are wrong?

I'm an engineer, analytically minded since birth. I would like to believe there is a God, I tell myself there is one, but there's always the small part of my mind saying, "prove it." That being said if there is a God, we are it's reality show. We were created/evolved to have free will and have done a wonderful job of ***** up this planet. God has nothing to do with natural disasters, sporting events, or anything else, good or bad that happens. Life is a test to see if you are worthy. Either that or nothing happens when you die and if that's the case I won't be around to give a ******.

I think God just watches us for entertainment. I cannot reconcile any diety that would wipe out thousands of innocent people in natural disasters in any given year. If God truly wanted to send a message, selective smiting of wicked people would be much more effective. Where's the incentive not to sin if you are going to be punished for your neighbor's sinning?

I guess where I'd fit in would be wanting to believe but always skeptical. I find myself talking to God (anyone seen the Tao of Steve?) rather than praying on occasion. When I'm having a particularly rough time or think something bad is about to happen I ask for things from my father who died when I was very young. I figure God is a busy diety, my dad on the other hand only has my mom, my brother, his granddaughter, and me to watch over so he can probably handle the micromanagement more easily. If there is no God and afterlife then I'm only moderately insane since I don't converse out loud with any of these entities, if they do exist then good for them and thanks for the little help I ask for and receive.

[ham_man]

christains sure are good at twisting around their beliefs to ever so slightly fit within laws. Must explain why so many republicans are christain.
There is no twisting around of our beliefs. Period. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost (or Holy Spirit) are the three ways which Christians experience the same divine being. End of statement.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Like I said Man has twisted religion into a zillion different forms of spin. Im sure if God walked the Earth he would say they all are screwed up.

[Josh]

There is no twisting around of our beliefs. Period. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost (or Holy Spirit) are the three ways which Christians experience the same divine being. End of statement.

You seem awful sure of things which you yourself cannot prove.

I understand that you believe that what the Bible says is "fact."

But imagine if your kidss science books were littered with "facts" that not one single person has ever proved.

I reckon you might switch schools :)

[mactastic]

Recovering Catholic if you must know... 12 years clean now.

[zimv20]

I've often wondered if the "holy spirit" was Everclear.
seems not (http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playlistId=1386257&s=143441&i=1386236).

[ham_man]

But imagine if your kidss science books were littered with "facts" that not one single person has ever proved.
Now I'm confused...

[dornoforpyros]

Athiest, although the church of satan does have some pretty reasonable suggestions for personal conduct (I'm not kidding, they are reasonable)

[yg17]

Now I'm confused...

Nothing confusing about it. People believe the bible is 100% fact without an ounce of proof behind it. Yet if your kid's elementary school textbooks made claims such as the moon is made of cheese, Abraham Lincoln loved the bitches and hos, 2+2=eleventy billion, and everyone had their own personal internets that were connected with tubes, without having any sort of proof to back up its claims, you'd be pissed.

[yellow]

Athiest, although the church of satan does have some pretty reasonable suggestions for personal conduct (I'm not kidding, they are reasonable)

I hear they have killer health plan too.

[floriflee]

The hubby and I are Mormon (i.e. Latter-day Saints). Not to be confused with the polygamist/fundamentalist groups that have broken off from the Mormon church.

[zimv20]

Athiest, although the church of satan does have some pretty reasonable suggestions for personal conduct (I'm not kidding, they are reasonable)
not only are some reasonable, but i see the more unreasonable ones being practiced by self-identified christians.

[yg17]

Athiest, although the church of satan does have some pretty reasonable suggestions for personal conduct (I'm not kidding, they are reasonable)

Indeed. Satanism, well LaVeyan Satanism at least, is misunderstood. It's not some "lets worship satan and cast wicca spells" crap like everyone thinks it is.

[dornoforpyros]

not only are some reasonable, but i see the more unreasonable ones being practiced by self-identified christians.

good point, where the bible (be it the old testistment mind you) teaches you to kill homosexuals, un-wed mothers and alike. The church of Satan teaches you to only destroy those who have personal wronged you. Seems pretty reasonable to me

[mactastic]

BTW, where's Voodoo and Santeria on that list?

[zimv20]

Indeed. Satanism, well LaVeyan Satanism at least, is misunderstood. It's not some "lets worship satan and cast wicca spells" crap like everyone thinks it is.
can you imagine how much better off we'd be if the bush adminstration followed The eleven Satanic rules of the Earth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVeyan_satanism)? (aside from 4, of course)


1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3. When in another’s lair, show him/her respect or else do not go there.
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him/her cruelly and without mercy.
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he/she cries out to be relieved.
7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9. Do not harm little children.
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him/her to stop. If he/she does not stop, destroy him/her.

[Josh]

Santeria?

Great song.

[Thomas Veil]

There is no twisting around of our beliefs. Period. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost (or Holy Spirit) are the three ways which Christians experience the same divine being. End of statement.Well. That settles that. I guess the mods can close this thread now. ;)

Are you referring to fundamentalism? :confused:Foundationism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundationism)

(BTW, that was awesome. I submitted a post suggesting the two threads be merged; when I went back to look at the other thread it had "mysteriously" vanished and turned up inside this one. I had no idea I had that kind of instantaneous power!

(I promise to use it only for good. :D )

[zimv20]

(BTW, that was awesome. I submitted a post suggesting the two threads be merged; when I went back to look at the other thread it had "mysteriously" vanished and turned up inside this one. I had no idea I had that kind of instantaneous power!

(I promise to use it only for good. :D )
can we add autodeism to the list? :-)

[count chocula]

godbless, could you clear these things up for me?

Now in the bible it says
thou shall not watch two lesbians in bed
having homosexual sex
unless of course you were given the consent to join in
then of course it's intercourse and it bisexual sex
which isn't as bad as long as you show some remorse for your actions
either before, during, or after performing the act of that which
is normally reffered to as such more commonly known phrases
that are more used by today kids
in a more derogatory way
but who's to say what's fair to say and what not to say?
let ask godbless
godbless,
I got a question if i may
is it gay to play putt putt golf with a friend
and watch his butt butt when he tees off?
but but i aint done yet
in football a quarterback yells out hut hut
while he reaches in another grown man's ass
grabs on his nuts, but just what if
it was never meant, it was just an accident
but he tripped, fell, slipped and his penis went in
his teeny, tiny, little, round hiney
and he didn't mean it but his little weenie flinched just a little bit
and I don't need to go into any more details
but what if he pictured it as a female's butt
is that gay? I just need to clear things up

[link92]

Protestant Christian, although to quote The Edge, on something that I very much agree with:I have no trouble with Christ, but I have trouble with a lot of Christians.

[aquajet]

You seem awful sure of things which you yourself cannot prove.

I understand that you believe that what the Bible says is "fact."

But imagine if your kidss science books were littered with "facts" that not one single person has ever proved.

I reckon you might switch schools :)

I took Ham's point as being that the Trinity is indeed part of Christian theology and calling it polytheistic is a misunderstanding of what the Trinity actually is. Are you trying to refute this point?

[EricNau]

I am Lutheran, but I do not feel bound strictly to their teachings alone. For the most part, I consider myself a Christian.

One of my favorite quotes regarding organized religions was, "Jesus would be rolling over in his grave right now if hadn't crawled out of it first." :D



You might want to ad:

- New Order Brethren
- Old Order Brethren
- Mennonite
- Lutheran

While Christian of some sort, I don't think these fall under Christian (Protestant with Denomination Affiliation) or "Christian" (Special/Small Following Group). Just going by the folks that I know who practice these religions. They would say they do not fit into this category.
Actually, Lutheran fits perfectly under the "Protestant" category. After all, we were the main protestant group against the Catholic Church in the 1500s. Martin Luther himself is often credited with starting the protestant reformation (making Lutheran the original protestant religion).

[Josh]

I took Ham's point as being that the Trinity is indeed part of Christian theology and calling it polytheistic is a misunderstanding of what the Trinity actually is. Are you trying to refute this point?

Are you refuting the point that Christians do the same thing by calling Hindu's views polythestic simply due to a misunderstanding, yet accept that as being "OK" ?

[aquajet]

...and I don't need to go into any more details...

Just as I was beginning to sweat a bit...

[MACDRIVE]

You forgot the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Better add it lest He smite you with his noodley appendage.

LOL!!! If everybody was as happy and whacky as Chundles is, they wouldn't need a religion. ;)

[wmmk]

I am a practicing Jew, but my mother is Catholic, and I really believe in Universalism. I have attended Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, and Christian services because I have friends from many different religions. To be honest, I believe in evolution (not creation), I think of G-d as a spiritual being, almost a felling or force, but definitely not an old guy with a big long white beard, and I most definitely do not believe the Torah (or Christian bible, for that matter) word for word. One big reason that I like Judaism is that we don't believe in Evangelism. And for that matter, I especially don't live evangelism on computer forums. So to all of you out there who believe that only you own religion is "truth" and feel like you must try to convert me, please stop. I'm a completely open minded person to other open mimded people. If you can't change your own beliefs, you won't be changing mine.

[aquajet]

Are you refuting the point that Christians do the same thing by calling Hindu's views polythestic simply due to a misunderstanding, yet accept that as being "OK" ?

I'm just asking a question. I wasn't certain what your point was. :confused:

[yellow]

I am a practicing Jew, but my mother is Catholic

You lost me right there.. you can't be a "real" jew if your mom is catholic! :)

[yg17]

I am a practicing Jew, but my mother is Catholic, and I really believe in Universalism. I have attended Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, and Christian services because I have friends from many different religions. To be honest, I believe in evolution (not creation), I think of G-d as a spiritual being, almost a felling or force, but definitely not an old guy with a big long white beard, and I most definitely do not believe the Torah (or Christian bible, for that matter) word for word. One big reason that I like Judaism is that we don't believe in Evangelism. And for that matter, I especially don't live evangelism on computer forums. So to all of you out there who believe that only you own religion is "truth" and feel like you must try to convert me, please stop. I'm a completely open minded person to other open mimded people. If you can't change your own beliefs, you won't be changing mine.

I was raised Jewish, and while I no longer practice that religion or believe in the existance of a god, one thing I agree with is we never practiced evangelism. 11 years of sunday school and not once did they ever tell us to go convert our non-Jewish friends or even teach them about Judaism. We were never sent door-to-door in a neighborhood to bother everybody at the most inconvienent time. We were never told that non-believers are destined for a life in hell. I've never seen a synogauge air a TV commercial spreading their beliefs. When it comes to different religions and beliefs, Jews have the tendency to be very open and tolerant. The religion doesn't teach us to hate gays. If you're Jewish, great, but if you aren't, you're not going to piss off too many Jews, and you're certainly not going to get a lecture.

[yg17]

You lost me right there.. you can't be a "real" jew if your mom is catholic! :)


Most synagouges and rabbis won't turn you away if you want to become a part of the religion. You will never be a Jew by ethnicity, but you can still be one by belief, and still get a Bar/Bat Mitzvah and all that.

Put it this way: He's more of a Jew than me, and I have 2 Jewish parents, and had a bar mitzvah

[wmmk]

You lost me right there.. you can't be a "real" jew if your mom is catholic! :)
Oy vey! Only the Orthodox community states that your mother must be Jewish for you to also be. Both the Reform and Conservative movements left that behind about 100-40 years ago.

[yellow]

You will never be a Jew by ethnicity, but you can still be one by belief, and still get a Bar/Bat Mitzvah and all that.

Yeah I know, I was just teasing him.

As a longtime goy-toy I'm pretty well versed in the House of David.

[vniow]

A good description of the various religions of the world.

http://www.ubersite.com/m/87559

[iMacZealot]

...I think of G-d as a spiritual being, almost a felling or force, but definitely not an old guy with a big long white beard, and I most definitely do not believe the Torah (or Christian bible, for that matter) word for word. One big reason that I like Judaism is that we don't believe in Evangelism. And for that matter, I especially don't live evangelism on computer forums. So to all of you out there who believe that only you own religion is "truth" and feel like you must try to convert me, please stop. I'm a completely open minded person to other open mimded people. If you can't change your own beliefs, you won't be changing mine.
I agree with you there. While most of my friends are Catholic like myself, I do respect every religion, and, many of them are pretty similar as I've studied in school and while travelling.

Now, as for God, people have always had the impression that "he" is an old man sitting on a cloud ready to strike lightning on you. Those people forget that that's Zeus, not God. I believe that God does not have a gender and did create everything and I believe that evolution (or "natural selection" as the polittically correct term) explains how God has done this in a scientific form.

[wmmk]

Put it this way: He's more of a Jew than me, and I have 2 Jewish parents, and had a bar mitzvah
My Bar Mitzvah is in October, actually. So, so, so much to study!:eek: Still gotta learn 4 more verses of Hebrew for the Torah portion, then on to the Haftarah and D'Var Torah
And I have Hebrew School tomorrow......

[yellow]

If you are a christian, you will appreciate this video...

http://dustin.imeem.com/video/pAnV0xO_

If not a christian, it might inspire you to become one.

[wmmk]

Yeah I know, I was just teasing him.

As a longtime goy-toy I'm pretty well versed in the House of David.
which meaning of goy-toy were you using?
there a few
(I'm guessing you mean person who's not Jewish but knows about Judaism. The other definition is.... oh, nevermind;))

[yellow]

As in a goyim who has dated a lot of jewish chicks over the years.
A self-created word play on "boy-toy".

[vniow]

As in a goyim who has dated a lot of jewish chicks over the years.
A self-created word play on "boy-toy".

That's not the only thing it means (first link).

http://www.google.com/search?lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=goy-toy

[iMacZealot]

Nothing confusing about it. People believe the bible is 100% fact without an ounce of proof behind it. Yet if your kid's elementary school textbooks made claims such as the moon is made of cheese, Abraham Lincoln loved the bitches and hos, 2+2=eleventy billion, and everyone had their own personal internets that were connected with tubes, without having any sort of proof to back up its claims, you'd be pissed.

There are many Christians out there, BornAgains, some Protestants, even some Catholics, etc., that do take the Bible as fact. As a Catholic speaking here, the Bible, since the Council of Nicaea, has never meant to be encouraged too much, because, yes, I will admit, the Bible is contradictory. The point of the Bible is to understand the good advice and points that those people convey, not to proove fact. For example, the creation story was written so long ago and does seem a little ridiculous now, but I believe that it's the general concept that God has created everything (at least in my opinion.) As for the Trinity, we have three gods in one: The father (God, the creator), the son (Jesus, the human version of God), and the Holy Spirit (the spiritual version of God.) We will never know the specifics of the Trinity, which is one of the mysteries of our faith, among many others. Simply put, it's one god in three different forms. Happy?

[count chocula]

i have a friend with a shirt that says this:

A SHORT GUIDE TO COMPARATIVE RELIGIONS


TAOISM **** happens.

CONFUCIANISM Confucius say, "**** happens".

CALVINISM **** happens because you don't work
hard enough.

BUDDHISM If **** happens, it really isn't ****.

SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST No **** on Saturdays.

ZEN What is the sound of **** happening?

HEDONISM There's nothing like a good **** happening.

HINDUISM This **** happened before.

MORMON This **** is going to happen again.

ISLAM If **** happens, it is the will of Allah.

MOONIES Only happy **** really happens.

STOICISM This **** is good for me.

PROTESTANISM Let the **** happen to someone else.

CATHOLICISM **** happens because you are BAD.

HARE KRISHNA **** happens rama rama.

JUDAISM Why does this **** always happen to us?

ZOROASTRIANISM **** happens half the time.

CHRISTIAN SCIENCE **** is in your mind.

ATHEISM Sheeit.

EXISTENTIALISM What is **** anyway?

RASTAFARIANISM Let's smoke this ****.

[yellow]

That's not the only thing it means (first link).

http://www.google.com/search?lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=goy-toy

Kick ass.. I'm a giant one of those too.

[iMacZealot]

Completely agree. I wonder how many Christians have read the Gospel of Mary or the Gospel of Judas. Probably not many, since the Church didn't choose to include them - hell, many Christians probably aren't even aware of their existence and their content. :rolleyes: Sad, really...


The church chose the four most accurate and earliest gospels. I belive this happened at the Council of Nicaea. Ever heard of that? Before then, people read whatever and nobody really knew what Christianity was, and the Christian Romans needed to know what they were dying for. So, the Church got together and chose the most accurate. The four official gospels were all written before 100 AD, and the Gospel of Judas was written far after that. John actually had personal contact with Mary (the mother of "Jebus" as you call him, ever heard of her?) This is why the church took the 180 gospels and made an official and accurate book about Jesus.

[scem0]

That's not the only thing it means (first link).

http://www.google.com/search?lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=goy-toy

I'm a goy toy then :P.

Hah, I'm surprised I didn't know that! I need to study up on my nasty terminology.

e

[wmmk]

Kick ass.. I'm a giant one of those too.
:eek: erm :squirms uncomfortably: no comment;) :cool:

[~Shard~]

The church chose the four most accurate and earliest gospels. I belive this happened at the Council of Nicaea. Ever heard of that?

Yep, well aware of it, thanks for asking.

John actually had personal contact with Mary (the mother of "Jebus" as you call him

Awww, did my use of the word "Jebus" offend you? It was a joke, I should hope you have a sense of humor. :cool:

This is why the church took the 180 gospels and made an official and accurate book about Jesus.

So let me get this straight - the Church, made up of humans, (who are inherently flawed and imperfect), chose which books should represent Jesus and which should not, essentially deciding how to portray Jesus. So for the past several centuries, everyone has been taught to believe what some guys hundreds of years ago decided was right. Yeah, no flaws with that at all... :rolleyes:

[yellow]

:eek: erm :squirms uncomfortably: no comment;) :cool:

Yes, I'm a giant penis. It usually takes people time to get used to it. As long as they don't kick me in the balls it ends up being cool.

[homerjward]

"religion is the opium of the masses." -karl marx

i'm an atheist, and i try to follow a lot of taoist principles (not very well though :o) but i guess that's not exactly a religion.

[wmmk]

Yes, I'm a giant penis. It usually takes people time to get used to it. As long as they don't kick me in the balls it ends up being cool.
don't you mean giant uncircumsized penis? well, I'd better not make things get any more off topi than they already are;)

[Queso]

John actually had personal contact with Mary (the mother of "Jebus" as you call him, ever heard of her?)
Yeah we know about Mary. Along with Jesus and the cross itself, an idol of her is worshipped in most Churches. Shame about that First Commandment isn't it?

I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; you shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,
Best warn your Grandkids not to get their hopes up about heaven then :cool:

[~Shard~]

I think it's great to see so much diversity in beliefs (or non-beliefs in some cases!) in this thread. It's encourgaing to see that so many people have a mind of their own, question things, attempt to seek out what they truly believe and don't just blindly go along with the masses or what was impressed on them at an early age.

I always get a kick out of people who state that they believe what they were raised to believe by their parents. If they truly do, okay, great, but if someone was born and raised in a Catholic family, does that automatically mean they truly believe (or have to believe) in Catholicism? Sheesh, get a mind of your own and decide for yourself instead of being brainwashed and influenced... :rolleyes: Good parents should allow their children to find their own path and a religion that makes sense to them, not try and ram thier beliefs down their children's throats. :cool:

[iMacZealot]

Awww, did my use of the word "Jebus" offend you? It was a joke, I should hope you have a sense of humor. :cool:

I respect your religion (or lack of religion), you should respect mine.



So let me get this straight - the Church, made up of humans, (who are inherently flawed and imperfect), chose which books should represent Jesus and which should not, essentially deciding how to portray Jesus. So for the past several centuries, everyone has been taught to believe what some guys hundreds of years ago decided was right. Yeah, no flaws with that at all... :rolleyes:
Yes, humans make mistakes, but the people at the Council of Nicaea were smart people. They knew what they were doing. If ten people gave you a slightly different story about a scandal involving your friend, shouldn't you be able to figure out which of those stories is the most accurate?

[yg17]

If ten people gave you a slightly different story about a scandal involving your friend, shouldn't you be able to figure out which of those stories is the most accurate?



Or.....all 10 stories could also be complete ************ and you just have to pick out the one with the least amount of ************.

[mactastic]

So proof that the Bible is accurate relys on the people of the Council of Nicaea being smart, and the proof of them being smart is that the Bible is accurate?

I'm sensing a circular logic pattern here...

[~Shard~]

I respect your religion (or lack of religion), you should respect mine.

I wasn't disrespecting your religion. I was quoting a funny reference from "Family Guy". It's called a joke. No need to take things so seriously. Have a little fun like so many others of us in this thread. God has a sense of humor, I'm sure he wants you to as well. :)

Yes, humans make mistakes, but the people at the Council of Nicaea were smart people. They knew what they were doing.

Smart != all-knowing and infallible. Plus, how can you be sure of that? Is that enough to base an entire belief system on? Some guys being "smart" and knowing what is best for everyone?!? :confused:

If ten people gave you a slightly different story about a scandal involving your friend, shouldn't you be able to figure out which of those stories is the most accurate?

Depends how well I know my friend, or more accuratrely how well I think I know my friend, how well I know the circumstances, and lastly how good at lying/convincing those ten people are, taking into account possible ulterior motives and other influences. :cool:

[mactastic]

"Save me Jeebus!" is from The Simpsons, not Family Guy.

[XNine]

Hitler was smart. Stalin was smart. Gangus Khan was smart. Did they not commit their lives to wrong-doing? Did they not make mistakes?

This is why I have such a hard time swallowing any religion. Except for Buddhism. Anyway.... So many people think they're "right" and point fingers at everyone else.

Sorry. I refuse to believe a book who continuously contradicts itself.

[blackfox]

There is no twisting around of our beliefs. Period. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost (or Holy Spirit) are the three ways which Christians experience the same divine being. End of statement.
iirc, not if you are an Eastern Orthodox Christian. I believe arguments over how to interpret God's divinity (and the idea of the Trinity) were what split the Christian Church.

So, there are many Christians who may not agree with your statement.

Coincidentally, was Orthodox Christian on the (poll) list?

[iMacZealot]

Sorry. I refuse to believe a book who continuously contradicts itself.

Yes, I do believe that the Bible is somewhat contradictory, but it's truly the message that matters. I don't read the Bible every five minutes, nor do I really, but I do follow the messages it contains.

[ham_man]

iirc, not if you are an Eastern Orthodox Christian. I believe arguments over how to interpret God's divinity (and the idea of the Trinity) were what split the Christian Church.
I thought it had to do with a split over who should be the head honcho in the Christian Church - the Pope in Rome or the Patriarch in Constantinople (sp), which language holy texts and masses should be held in (Greek v. Latin), and various other things.

Also, "Orthodox Christians believe in a single God who is both three and one (triune): Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, 'one in essence and undivided'." (Wikpedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodox_Church))

Are you refuting the point that Christians do the same thing by calling Hindu's views polythestic simply due to a misunderstanding, yet accept that as being "OK" ?
I told you. We believe in one God. We experience him three different ways. Let me tell it to you this way. You can "experience" a baseball game by either being at the game, watching it on TV, or listening to it on the radio. Three different mediums, same ball game. Get it yet? :confused:

Nothing confusing about it. People believe the bible is 100% fact without an ounce of proof behind it. Yet if your kid's elementary school textbooks made claims such as the moon is made of cheese, Abraham Lincoln loved the bitches and hos, 2+2=eleventy billion, and everyone had their own personal internets that were connected with tubes, without having any sort of proof to back up its claims, you'd be pissed.
All the textbooks I know (except for my history textbook) have no bias one way or the other pertaining to religion. I don't know what your source is when you say "people". Are you basing your information on stereotypes? :confused:

[Dont Hurt Me]

Trinity spin, sorry but thats a lot spin in my view, I guess Jesus prayed to himself? Thats a good example of religious spin, they all take something different from the same book.

[stillwater]

I think the Austin Lounge Lizards summed up my feelings about organized religion in their song "Jesus Loves Me (But He Can't Stand You)".

I know you smoke I know you drink that brew
I just can't abide a sinner like you
God can't either. Thats why I know it to be true that
Jesus loves me but he can't stand you

I'm goin' straight to heaven boys, when I die
Because I've crossed every T and dotted every I
Why, my preacher tells me that I'm god's kind of guy
That's why Jesus loves me but you're gonna fry

God loves all his children by gum
That don't mean he won't incinerate some
Can't you feel those hot flames licking you
woo woo woo

I'm raisin' my kids in a rightious way
So don't be bringin' your kids over to my house to play
Why, yours will grow up stoned left leaning and gay
I know, Jesus told me on the phone today

Jesus loves me, this I know
And he told me where you're gonna go
There's lots of room for your kind down below
wo wo wo

Jesus loves me but he can't stand you
Jesus loves me but he can't stand you.......

[mactastic]

I loves my some Austin Lounge Lizards.

Available on iTMS BTW...

And here I thought the trinity was 2 parts diced onion, 1 part diced peppers, and one part diced celery.

Shows how much I know!

[amateurmacfreak]

I cannot fit myself into organized religion... it just doesn't work for me. I love Unitarian beliefs, but really I try to just think of myself as not having any religion. I think I believe in God, but I'm not sure. I think I believe in a life after death, but I'm not sure.
I like seeking spiritual truth on my own, but I rarely ever hold any strong beliefs for too long.

EDIT: And I think whatever religious path one wants to take or whatever one wants to believe is fine, as long as it is not harming other people.

[amateurmacfreak]

I'm agnostic leaning towards the belief in an existent divine force of some kind. What that force may be is beyond me. It's probably perfect (Anselm), it's probably the first cause (Aristotle), it's probably the only thing that doesn't exist contingently (Ibn Sina), and it probably confers all meaning in this world. :)

I think there's great philosophical evidence for some kind of divinity, but trying to guess what that divinity is, or what it believes, is just silly.

You're too eloquent. :p
The only thing I take issue with and have my beliefs differ from really is.... actually, nevermind, I think I agree with everything you said. :o

[amateurmacfreak]

Well you left out the Religious Society of Friends(Quakers) thats what I consider myself. Although I am more of a holiday Quaker. Our family never really goes to any kind of meeting they are all too far away, so its really more of a belief system for us.
I like Quakers. :) If I was a Christian, I'd probably be a Quaker.

[sushi]

I think it's great to see so much diversity in beliefs (or non-beliefs in some cases!) in this thread. It's encourgaing to see that so many people have a mind of their own, question things, attempt to seek out what they truly believe and don't just blindly go along with the masses or what was impressed on them at an early age.
I think that I am going to start up Sushism, the worship of raw fish on rice. Sort of has a Zen like feeling!

Anyone care to join? ;) :D

I always get a kick out of people who state that they believe what they were raised to believe by their parents. If they truly do, okay, great, but if someone was born and raised in a Catholic family, does that automatically mean they truly believe (or have to believe) in Catholicism? Sheesh, get a mind of your own and decide for yourself instead of being brainwashed and influenced... :rolleyes: Good parents should allow their children to find their own path and a religion that makes sense to them, not try and ram thier beliefs down their children's throats. :cool:
Well said -- completely agree.

I have known folks who had marriage, or maybe pre-marriage is a better way to put it, religious issues because one believed in religion A and the other believed in religion B, but both religions required the other to change to theirs. In some cases the religion issue was non-negotiable. Makes no sense to me.

[blackfox]

I thought it had to do with a split over who should be the head honcho in the Christian Church - the Pope in Rome or the Patriarch in Constantinople (sp), which language holy texts and masses should be held in (Greek v. Latin), and various other things.

Also, "Orthodox Christians believe in a single God who is both three and one (triune): Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, 'one in essence and undivided'." (Wikpedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodox_Church))

There is this matter, however:
To this day, the Orthodox Church uses the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed of 381 without the filioque. Many times, the Eastern Churches have rejected the phrase as an unauthorized interpolation, an example of what they consider to be Western hubris. Even more, they objected to the teaching it expressed, as conflicting with biblical and accepted doctrine. They said that for the Holy Spirit to proceed from the Father and the Son there would have to be two sources in the deity, whereas in the one God there can only be one source of divinity or deity.
Western theologians anticipated this objection by saying the Spirit proceeds from the Father and Son "as from one principle." The East, however, again objected that this formulation would merge and confuse the persons of the Father and the Son. It was also pointed out that if Father and Son are sources of deity (and only the Holy Spirit is not), it follows that the status of the Spirit is diminished, relative to the Father and the Son, by excluding the Spirit alone as a source of divinity, making the Spirit, rather, a recipient of it--as if the Son and Spirit were both subordinate in their own doctrine. Finally, if one says that the divine essence itself is the source of deity in God, which they took the Latin theologians to say, then (as the Eastern theologians pointed out) another problem is created, a suggestion that the Holy Spirit proceeds from himself, since he is certainly not separate from the divine essence. (By the same reasoning, the Father and Son would also proceed from Themselves. The typical Eastern approach to Triadology avoids this problem by starting with Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and considering that the unique divine Essence is the content of these Three, rather than that the Three "proceed" from the Essence.)
So, while your original statement (from which I first quoted a few posts back) is technically true, the manner of interpretation is somewhat muddled among Christians.

You other reasons for the Schism of the Christian Church are also true and notable. In light of, you would have to acknowledge the place that wordly power and politics had in the formulation of Christian doctrine - which would lead one to believe that all doctrine must be taken with a grain of salt - as the context of doctrinal choices over the millenia casts doubt on their exclusive divine origin and subsequent infallibility.

[wmmk]

I have known folks who had marriage, or maybe pre-marriage is a better way to put it, religious issues because one believed in religion A and the other believed in religion B, but both religions required the other to change to theirs. In some cases the religion issue was non-negotiable. Makes no sense to me.
makes no sense to me either. good thing my parent's weren't like that! if they were, I wouldn't exist!:eek:

[benthewraith]

Protestant

[EricNau]

"Save me Jeebus!" is from The Simpsons, not Family Guy.
Actually, I believe it was on both. (Note the difference in spelling).

Although, the term Jebus/Jeebus was along long before either The Simpsons or Family Guy.

[.Andy]

Human.

[kevin.rivers]

I don't really adhere to a religion. The only one I can really identify with is Buddhism. I am not really buddhist, though I do practice some things in Buddhism.

There may be a God. However, I don't think I like God too much. I am little perturbed that he created me. Not that I don't enjoy life, but what is the point of all this. To go to heaven? Why didn't God just put everyone in Heaven to hang out with him? It doesn't make much sense.

Besides that, there is no proof of God. I don't feel God has spoken to anyone on this earth.

Then there is Jesus for Christians. He may have existed, and the message is awesome. However, what is the point of Jesus also being God? I mean really, how does this help anyone? You can't be God. So you can't be Jesus, which means you will never be free from this "sin". If Jesus was just a normal guy(which is what I think) that would be a better guide for us. Considering he was man and "sinless"

Do you know where I think this "sin" originated. God. God was selfish and created beings that can't understand there existence for God's own personal gain. To be loved, to rule. Whatever. You can argue that he loves you. I disagree however. If he loved me, he wouldn't make me suffer in trying to understand the point of my existence. Heaven or not, whats the point? Anyhow, we are also selfish, like God. We want and want, and try to manipulate to get what we want. So where did "sin" come from? The creator himself.

So, while God may exist. I don't like him too much.

The one thing I do know however is this: While I am on this earth I will be the best person I can be to the people of this world. Because that makes sense. I don't want to be hurt by anyone, so why would I do it to someone else. I don't need Jesus, or anyone else to tell me this. We all know it. It is in everyone's heart.

I think holding to the idea of God or Jesus, or anything else for that matter is foolish. We don't need God, or anything else to tell us to be a good person. Because we see what happens, we manipulate that too.

"Well, I can't be perfect so I can sin as long as I repent". Give me a break. If you are that strong in your faith there is no reason to "sin". That is weakness. And why would that person be weak? Because they feel they have to grab onto something higher than themself to live without "sin". I believe the answer is in everyone.

So I guess i am in the "Good people" religion.

[nbs2]

- Mormon (I.e. Latter Day Saint)
Christian (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints a/k/a Mormon)

[EricNau]

Christian (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints a/k/a Mormon)
That is highly debatable.

[iShane]

I really am not sure...yet.

[benthewraith]

<snipped>

Actually, no. The reason why you are here was because he tried to make beings similar to himself. He created the angels to be loyal (well, he altered them after the Rebellion). Why did God create man? Because he wanted beings to willingly choose him rather than be forced. Why do you need to understand the point of your existence? That's to be decided by yourself and not God. The problem is, everyone has the vision of God as some tyrannical dictator when the concept of who he is is so much more. God isn't some ascended three dimensional being that is personified with the old man view. The concept of God is far greater.

God plays a big hand on how the universe evolved (or was created). The problem is, everyone's trying to prove God doesn't exist by proving Evolution. If God (or gods) was the cause of that, then their very argument disproves them. As for Jesus, God obeys his own rules, that's why he had a son.

Another error in most Christians eyes is their view of Revelations. All of these biblethumping priests and reverands walk around with these bibles saying that the Rapture is about to occur. Yet, the very book of Revelations is defined as a "prophetic" book. It's subject to interpretation. I could link it to many of the circumstances that have occured over the generations and generations, and yet someone see it in an entirely different manner.

[adroit]

Buddhist.

I only believe in a religion for the moral, not the supernatural of it.

[kevin.rivers]

Actually, no. The reason why you are here was because he tried to make beings similar to himself. He created the angels to be loyal (well, he altered them after the Rebellion). Why did God create man? Because he wanted beings to willingly choose him rather than be forced. Why do you need to understand the point of your existence? That's to be decided by yourself and not God. The problem is, everyone has the vision of God as some tyrannical dictator when the concept of who he is is so much more. God isn't some ascended three dimensional being that is personified with the old man view. The concept of God is far greater.

God plays a big hand on how the universe evolved (or was created). The problem is, everyone's trying to prove God doesn't exist by proving Evolution. If God (or gods) was the cause of that, then their very argument disproves them. As for Jesus, God obeys his own rules, that's why he had a son.

Another error in most Christians eyes is their view of Revelations. All of these biblethumping priests and reverands walk around with these bibles saying that the Rapture is about to occur. Yet, the very book of Revelations is defined as a "prophetic" book. It's subject to interpretation. I could link it to many of the circumstances that have occured over the generations and generations, and yet someone see it in an entirely different manner.

God may exist. In fact I would say God probably does exist. Can I prove it, no. I also don't know who God is, yet you seem to know him so let him know I'd like to chat with him.

No one knows anything about why we are here. Anyone who thinks they do im my opinion are full of it. All I know is that I am here, and if it is Gods doing I have some beef with that.

I don't think of God as anything. I can judge God based on his actions, which is creating me for no apparent reason. Which I have a problem with. I don't think od strikes people down, or anything like that. I am sure God would be capable of that though.

"Why do you need to understand the point of your existence? That's to be decided by yourself and not God."

So I can decide myself, but I don't need to understand it? Of course I need to understand my existance. I am here, I want a reason. And I have a right to have a reason. Whether I get it or not, I feel that I have a right.

Also, I never viewed evolution as the answer to creation. Because as you stated, that leaves the question of "how did the thing we evolved from get here?". The Big Bang as well, sure it could of happened that way, but how did that initial "spark" happen. Spontaneous? I don't know. It could be though.

So to recap:
If god exists, I have a beef with him for creating me.

[~Shard~]

"Save me Jeebus!" is from The Simpsons, not Family Guy.

"Save me Jebus" is from the Simpsons, however the word "Jebus" used in place of "Jesus" actually first appeared in Family Guy, before The Simpsons used the same word. Just a little bit of trivia for you. Trust me, I know my Family Guy. :cool:

[~Shard~]

I think that many people misuse religion, or use it as a crutch, which is wrong. If you need religion to give your life meaning, to explain things and give you that warm fuzzy feeling inside, great - but guess what, not everyone does. So many people seem to use religion as a "psychological blanket" or "safety net", which I think is one of the wrong reasons to believe in something.

I also think people fear what they do not know or do not understand. They fear the unknown. Religion sometimes gives them explanations which suits their purposes. When the real fact is that we, as the human race, are extremely primitive when it comes to the grand scheme of the universe. Our feeble, limited human minds would not even be able to comprehend the true nature of "God", and if even if said God spoke to us and revealed his "word" to us, our limited human minds would not be able to properly understand it - talk about the ultimate "lost in translation".

I realize many people have faith and religious beliefs for other reasons, which are far more noble and completely fair enough, but it's for reasons that I've stated above that I shake my head at.

In conclusion, for those of you who try to use religion to explain everything in this world, read my sig. :cool:

[iJon]

As being a vetran MacRumors poster, I remember ol' Shrek (http://forums.macrumors.com/member.php?u=10128), who was always participating in those controversial religious threads and eventually was banned. He was a little more harsh than GodBless though.

Now that I think of it, I started a "Do You Believe in God? (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=19031)" back in the day. It's a pretty good read, a lot more tame then GodBless' hijacked OS X thread that was closed down. You can tell my views have changed quite a bit since. Shows you what two life changing experiences, getting older and world traveling can do to the mind.

jon

[FFTT]

I believe mankind would be far better off not trying to categorize or stereotype others to fit into some artificial mould.

I also strongly consider the possibility that God ( by any name )
might have a female counterpart as with all things in nature
providing balance.

[iMacZealot]

As being a vetran MacRumors poster, I remember ol' Shrek (http://forums.macrumors.com/member.php?u=10128), who was always participating in those controversial religious threads and eventually was banned. He was a little more harsh than GodBless though.

Now that I think of it, I started a "Do You Believe in God? (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=19031)" back in the day. It's a pretty good read, a lot more tame then GodBless' hijacked OS X thread that was closed down. You can tell my views have changed quite a bit since. Shows you what two life changing experiences, getting older and world traveling can do to the mind.

jon

Quite honestly, I just started this thread to see what everyone believed in. No harm intended.

[GodBless]

BTW, where's Voodoo and Santeria on that list?The "Cultic" category works for both of those.

[zimv20]

The "Cultic" category works for both of those.
that's really condescending. i think christianity is a cult, so there.

[count chocula]

that's really condescending. i think christianity is a cult, so there.
cult
noun
a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing

yep, sounds like christianity to me

[solvs]

Yet, the very book of Revelations is defined as a "prophetic" book. It's subject to interpretation.
That's because it's not a prophecy, it's a warning. ;)

I refuse to define my beliefs with organized religion. To me, religion is the corruption of God. The power hungry use it to gain further power over the willing, just as some will hide behind it to justify the otherwise unjustifiable. People use it as a crutch so they don't have to think for themselves or question the reality of their existence. While it can bring people together, often even helping the helpless as it's supposed to (see church outreach programs or the nonprofit hospital I work for), it's too easily perverted to be exactly the opposite. My beliefs are my own, as I'm sure y'alls are, and I would prefer to keep it that way. Though I am more than happy to share if you ask.

Though I will not say there is no God, because I do not know. I will also neither claim for sure there is, because I do not know. I do have my faith, but it is open and free of the burden of dogma. I wouldn't even say I believe, I just have a pretty good idea. ;)

[aquajet]

from wiktionary:

pissing contest
noun phrase

2. (idiomatic) (slang) (coarse) A contest, especially between males, over some trivial matter, or in an effort to demonstrate superiority for its own sake.

[GodBless]

that's really condescending. i think christianity is a cult, so there.If you are running Tiger hold down the "command-ctrl-d" keyboard shortcut on both of those. Cult is in the definition of both.

And by the way thinking isn't knowing. ;)

[gekko513]

I'm atheist, but agnostic on occasion.

[solvs]

And by the way thinking isn't knowing.
Wow, that was incredibly condescending. People like you are the reason I turned my back on organized religion. And why so many turn their backs on God.

Way to get another thread closed.

[GodBless]

Wow, that was incredibly condescending. People like you are the reason I turned my back on organized religion. And why so many turn their backs on God.

Way to get another thread closed.I am sorry I wasn't more clear. I was just saying that we should more deeply understand things before we move forward as thinking we "know" something. Thinking is just one part of coming to know something. Often times we should test what we think in order to be certain of it's existence and how it interacts with other things.

[scem0]

And by the way thinking isn't knowing. ;)

What is knowing? What is knowledge?

I'd like to know your views on epistemology.

e

[GodBless]

By the way how do you make a thread into an actual poll (like on macpolls.com)? I tried to do it but I couldn't find a poll-making forum thread tool when I created this (now merged) thread.

Also it would be great if the mods would be able to make it into a poll if there is a way.

[count chocula]

By the way how do you make this into an actual poll (like on macpolls.com)? I tried to do it but I couldn't figure it out.
thread tools on the top of the first post of the page should do it, but i think now it says the thread was started by imaczealot (i think 2 threads were merged), so you may not be able to add a poll.

[iMacZealot]

thread tools on the top of the first post of the page should do it, but i think now it says the thread was started by imaczealot (i think 2 threads were merged), so you may not be able to add a poll.

I tried doing that but it didn't come up. Don't know why.

[GodBless]

I am sorry I wasn't more clear. I was just saying that we should more deeply understand things before we move forward as thinking we "know" something. Thinking is just one part of coming to know something. Often times we should test what we think in order to be certain of it's existence and how it interacts with other things.

Wow isn't that amazing!! I've been sorting my papers and I was in the middle of typing a quote of mine into Word (that I wrote down on paper back in October) just before I made this post (that is quoted above) and it matches up with it perfectly, here it is:

"We have the knowledge but have failed to deeply perceive it and utilize it -- we are the average American Church." -GodBless (no this isn't my actual name ;) ) (Date of quote: 20051004)

I think that most of the people who go to Church don't know God even though they have gone to Church year after year. Nobody can tell a person what to believe -- each person has to choose that for himself/herself. That is why people can go to Church without knowing God. It is not going to Church that saves a person, it's knowing and trusting God.

[count chocula]

It is not going to Church that saves a person, it's knowing and trusting God.
i disagree that knowing and trusting god will save anybody from anything. anyways, i've already said my view in post #97

[scem0]

If I go to church and I know and trust in a God that I believe wants me to kill non-Christians, then I'm right in that belief because it's written in the Bible?

You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11

e

[EricNau]

Another error in most Christians eyes is their view of Revelations. All of these biblethumping priests and reverands walk around with these bibles saying that the Rapture is about to occur. Yet, the very book of Revelations is defined as a "prophetic" book. It's subject to interpretation. I could link it to many of the circumstances that have occured over the generations and generations, and yet someone see it in an entirely different manner.
Next time you want to teach me about the Book of Revelation, you might want to learn the correct title. ;)

[GodBless]

If I go to church and I know and trust in a God that I believe wants me to kill non-Christians, then I'm right in that belief because it's written in the Bible?

You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

Jesus came as a sacrifice of all sin so that we (and others) may live to find what is true -- which is God's love through Jesus and His Holy Spirit. Jesus' living sacrifice now allows us as followers of Jesus to love our enemies. (Luke 6:27-36 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%206:27-36;&version=51;))

Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11Yes -- suffering nations today do not allow religious freedom.

[GodBless]

I tried doing that but it didn't come up. Don't know why.A site admin did a poll for me in another thread after I posted questions (without a poll) some time ago (in this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=131285)).

[count chocula]

has anybody else noticed the ads at the bottom of this thread? they made me laugh.

[Queso]

Far away in the tropical waters of the Caribbean, two prawns were swimming around in the sea - one called Justin and the other called Christian. The prawns were constantly being harassed and threatened by sharks that inhabited the area. Finally one day Justin said to Christian, "I'm fed up with being a prawn, I wish I was a shark, then I wouldn't have any worries about being eaten."

A large mysterious cod appeared & said, "Your wish is granted", and lo and behold, Justin turned into a shark. Horrified, Christian immediately swam away, afraid of being eaten by his old mate.

Time passed (as it invariably does) and Justin found life as a shark boring & lonely. All his old mates simply swam away whenever he came close to them. Justin didn't realise that his new menacing appearance was the cause of his sad plight.

Whilst swimming alone one day he saw the mysterious cod again and he thought perhaps the mysterious fish could change him back into a prawn. He approached the cod and begged to be changed back, and lo and behold, he found himself turned back into a prawn.

With tears of joy in his tiny little eyes Justin swam back to his friends and bought them all a cocktail. Looking around the gathering at the reef he realised he couldn't see his old pal. "Where's Christian?" he asked.

"He's at home, still distraught that his best friend changed sides to the enemy and became a shark",was the reply. Eager to put things right again and end the mutual pain and torture, he set off to Christian's abode. As he opened the coral gate, memories came flooding back. He banged on the door and shouted, "It's me, Justin, your old friend, come out and see me again."

Christian replied,"No way man, you'll eat me. You're now a shark, the enemy, and I'll not be tricked into being your dinner."

Justin cried back "No, I'm not. That was the old me. I've changed...."

**Select below for punchline**

"I've found Cod. I'm a Prawn again Christian" .

[GodBless]

i was disappointed to miss out on the last thread (i read the whole thing last night), but please dont make me need the hammer. i respect you're religious beliefs, so please respect mine. do not tell me i'm wrong, because i will not tell you that you are wrong.Are you sure that you read post 407 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2601162&postcount=407) of mine on the other thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=214531)?

Also take a look at James Dobson's son's (Ryan Dobson) book and title here (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590521528/sr=8-1/qid=1152694631/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-4922329-1922262?ie=UTF8). ;)

Also I live by God's Word. Exodus 20:3 says this, "Do not worship any other gods besides me. (NLT)"

[Chundles]

Are you sure that you read post 407 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2601162&postcount=407) of mine on the other thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=214531)?

Also take a look at James Dobson's son's (Ryan Dobson) book and title here (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590521528/sr=8-1/qid=1152694631/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-4922329-1922262?ie=UTF8). ;)

Also I live by God's Word. Exodus 20:3 says this, "Do not worship any other gods besides me. (NLT)"

Any other gods? So god is saying there are other gods?

[gekko513]

Any other gods? So god is saying there are other gods?
Yes, but you shouldn't worship them. ;)

[GodBless]

Any other gods? So god is saying there are other gods?There are other things to worship as "gods" such as idols and imaginary "gods" (notice the lowercase "g").

[Queso]

There are other things to worship as "gods" such as idols and imaginary "gods" (notice the lowercase "g").
Idols. Like Christ on a Crucifix found in nearly every Church?

[GodBless]

Idols. Like Christ on a Crucifix found in nearly every Church?There's a reason why I am not a Catholic. ;)

[Queso]

There's a reason why I am not a Catholic. ;)
But does your Church have a cross in it? Possibly even made of gold?

[EricNau]

But does your Church have a cross in it? Possibly even made of gold?
While churches may have a cross, this does not mean that the congregation worships the cross.

[Queso]

While churches may have a cross, this does not mean that the congregation worships the cross.
Good point. I get that now.

But going back to GodBless's statement about Catholics. Since they pray to the Virgin Mary as well as Jesus, does this mean they are actually breaking the First Commandment?

[GodBless]

But does your Church have a cross in it? Possibly even made of gold?My Church does have a cross on it, but not for the purpose of idolatry -- and no it's not gold -- my Church does better things in the world with it's money. Objects are useful as tools and/or representations (i.e. a computer helps me with ministry and a cross helps my Church represent itself as a Church). Idolatry is different it's worshiping things -- not worshiping the creator of things.

An artistic representation of Jesus is good too -- I don't mind being reminded about Jesus dying on a cross. I do think however that since Jesus was beaten so badly that He was unrecognizable the artwork should match up with that better -- although some might mistaken Him with some one else) -- so I guess I don't mind it too much.

[blackfox]

Jesus came as a sacrifice of all sin so that we (and others) may live to find what is true -- which is God's love through Jesus and His Holy Spirit. Jesus' living sacrifice now allows us as followers of Jesus to love our enemies. (Luke 6:27-36 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%206:27-36;&version=51;))

I'll pick this quote to comment on, although there are so many which illustrate the same point.

The following point coincidentally sums up my religious beliefs:

God represents an ideal - an perfect ideal state if you will - omniscient and omnipotent. This state of being is unattainable for humans - we are relatively stupid and we make many mistakes - which rather regrettably, are named "sins" by Christianity (and some others). Catholicism, as I understand it, makes these "sins" especially guilt-laden, which I believe is the wrong tact to take - though it may have been (or still is) an effective motivator in the political/social arena.

So Jesus came down to Earth and lived as a human and a God - as fallible, but representative of an ideal (or set of them), which he died for - to make a point. I am not sure his point has survived.

I believe his point, or that of most Religion, is to remind humanity that we have the faculties to recognize and strive towards ideals that we can barely conceptualize or understand - that we have the capacity to better ourselves in ways we can barely fathom, despite our numerous capacities to fail and to fall short. This can only be done by allowing ourselves to submit to some concept higher than ourselves (our ego), to some ideal sufficiently grand and transcendant. Some may call this God.

Insofar that there is evil in this world, it can probably be tied to narcissism and laziness. The former, involved as it is with self-absorption leads to neither the search for an ideal to aspire towards outside of the self, or to realistic self-criticism, both of which are necessary to lead some sort of healthy, moral life. The latter demands effort to overcome, as Entropy is the natural state of things - and anything worth accomplishing takes effort - that should be self-evident to most. Living morally and justly, truly loving those around you requires tremendous effort - though the rewards are great, so is the suffering - Jesus could be an example of this. Living decent, meaningful lives also requires one to make many judgements - often moral ones - which are often difficult and painful to make. We must be able to recognize the potential for evil in judgements and to appropriately self-criticize beforehand. We must also remember the purpose for which we judge - if it for our own self-esteem or pride, then we lack the appropriate perspective beyond ourselves, and that judgement is questionable.

We may never discern the meaning of human existence, including why this person tends to be good and that one evil - but it is still our responsiblity to live the best we can. We are permitted to choose whether to live in a state of greater or lesser ignorance. We must learn how and when to to judge wisely. Great spiritual leaders have given us the basics as to how - but to depend on dogma or scripture is a lazy way of avoiding the tough choices - and as such can easily lead to evil. It is, of course, appropriate to refine our wisdom through methods available to us - through the scientific method, through great authors, artists and philosophers - as well as great religious figures and thinkers. They give us the tools to conceptualize greater and more complex ideals, and offer us guidlines to acheive them. To me it makes no sense to dismiss any potential source of wisdom, nor to cleave to tightly to any specific creed - which is why I am non-denominational.

To effect any meaningful change in the world, it all starts with the individual - they make up and influence the ever-enlarging groups that make larger and larger decisions that effect us. Many Christians know how pivotal the individual is, which is why the "saving" of an individual sole is so important - it may always prove pivotal. I think many, however, make the wrong assumption on which individual to concentrate on. I don't believe it is someone "out there" who needs saving, but of oneself - a process which takes a lifetime and will never be perfected. I think this is a major stumbling-bloc for all too many.

One important point, illustrated by Huxley (paraphrased):

It is important to be able to work primarily for God in oneself, because the effects of working against the devil in others are often disastrous. By thinking primarily of evil we tend, despite best intentions, of creating occasions for evil to manifest itself. To be more against the devil than for God (however you conceptualize either), you are apt to become haunted by the very wickedness which you attribute to your enemies - it becomes a part of you.

Wise words indeed. So I have a great affinity for many Religions and their wisdom, as I do for many thoughtful practitioners of them - but it ends at the insistence that they are unquestionably correct and we outside are in need of guidance to that fact - as this is obviously nonsense. It fits none of the criteria for Godlike behavior, and many of the criteria for occasion of evil.

sorry to ramble - I hope I got my point across.

[riciad]

Christian replied,"No way man, you'll eat me. You're now a shark, the enemy, and I'll not be tricked into being your dinner."

Justin cried back "No, I'm not. That was the old me. I've changed...."

**Select below for punchline**
[/COLOR]

Thanks for giving me a good laugh to enjoy with my morning coffee.

[GodBless]

Since they pray to the Virgin Mary as well as Jesus, does this mean they are actually breaking the First Commandment?That's another reason why I'm not a Catholic -- I follow the Bible.

[Music_Producer]

Jesus is our savior.. no wait, Mohammad, no.. Krishna/Shankar/Rama..no, Buddha.. Guru Nanak.. Sai Baba.. etc etc.

I'm an atheist, and glad to be one. It amuses me when people argue about their religious beliefs.. my salvation currently is my macbook :p

[Music_Producer]

Oh and don't even drag my wife into this.. she's a Jehovah's witness. God knows I've studied probably every religion during my lifetime and they're all just the same.. so it pisses me off when I see differences when the underlying principle is the same damn thing!

[nbs2]

That is highly debatable.
Huh? How is it possible to exclude a Mormon from Christianity?
Is it because we don't subscribe to the Nicene Creed (which was the result of a bunch of man postulating and debating and eventually voting on the nature of God)?
Or is it because we believe in prophesy (like a surprising many other Christian churches, to the consternation of many other Christians)?
Or is it that we believe that God is just and that he would not condemn most of the world simply because they were born at a time/place where they couldn't be taught?
Or is it because we believe that the Bible is but one testament of Christ?
Or is the that we believe that God did care about the 10 tribes after they were scattered?
Or is it the fact that we don't have crosses anywhere in or around our buildings - seems disturbing to focus on a crucifixion since that doesn't make Jesus a Christ (otherwise we would have so many Christs we wouldn't know what to do with them), but rather look to a living Christ for hope and inspiration?
Or is it something else?

Please, do explain.

[yg17]

Are you sure that you read post 407 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2601162&postcount=407) of mine on the other thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=214531)?

Also take a look at James Dobson's son's (Ryan Dobson) book and title here (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590521528/sr=8-1/qid=1152694631/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-4922329-1922262?ie=UTF8). ;)

Also I live by God's Word. Exodus 20:3 says this, "Do not worship any other gods besides me. (NLT)"


The Dobson family is a bunch of worthless pricks. If you want anyone to take you even remotely seriously, get a source that isn't so biased and doesn't have its head shoved far up its ass.

[Josh]

I am sorry I wasn't more clear. I was just saying that we should more deeply understand things before we move forward as thinking we "know" something. Thinking is just one part of coming to know something. Often times we should test what we think in order to be certain of it's existence and how it interacts with other things.

It would do wonders if you took your own advise from time to time.

[scem0]

Often times we should test what we think in order to be certain of it's existence and how it interacts with other things.

I'm wish Josh - how did you test your belief in God?

e

[Mord]

church of the flying spaghetti monster

gain salvation via meat balls.

i have a simple three option dilemma which prevents me from ethically believing in any god

either:

1) god made us and needs us to worship/thank him for our existence to satisfy his petty ego, in which case i say "***** god"

2) god made us and does not care if we believe in him or not, in which case i choose not to align myself to any particular religion and continue my life unchanged

3) god does not infact exist and it's all pointless and when you die you die

1),2) are hypotheticals and i in no way believe in any possibility that they are true.


Now, you may be thinking "I have faith that my religion is the true one and thats what makes me magical", the fact is that their are a bunch of religions which are not unethical in some way thats obvious (for example, i'd never be muslim due to many islamic laws i disagree with fiercely, the same goes for most forms of christianity)

Their are many religions that are equally ethical and impossible to tell the "true religion" if their is one at all, what type of god would be so petty that he would require you to by chance make the right choice, if you even make a choice seeing as most people are conditioned into religion by their parents.

feel free to argue with me but try actually making counter points rather than getting angry, criticizing my spelling/grammar, or general irrational posting.

[Mord]

Huh? How is it possible to exclude a Mormon from Christianity?
Is it because we don't subscribe to the Nicene Creed (which was the result of a bunch of man postulating and debating and eventually voting on the nature of God)?
Or is it because we believe in prophesy (like a surprising many other Christian churches, to the consternation of many other Christians)?
Or is it that we believe that God is just and that he would not condemn most of the world simply because they were born at a time/place where they couldn't be taught?
Or is it because we believe that the Bible is but one testament of Christ?
Or is the that we believe that God did care about the 10 tribes after they were scattered?
Or is it the fact that we don't have crosses anywhere in or around our buildings - seems disturbing to focus on a crucifixion since that doesn't make Jesus a Christ (otherwise we would have so many Christs we wouldn't know what to do with them), but rather look to a living Christ for hope and inspiration?
Or is it something else?

Please, do explain.


all of the above, islam states that many profits were legit, that does not make them jews/christians.

[kevin.rivers]

church flying spaghetti monster

gain salvation via meat balls.

i have a simple three option dilemma which prevents me from ethically believing in any god

either:

1) god made us and needs us to worship/thank him for our existence to satisfy his petty ego, in which case i say "***** god"

2) god made us and does not care if we believe in him or not, in which case i choose not to align myself to any particular religion and continue my life unchanged

3) god does not infact exist and it's all pointless and when you die you die

1),2) are hypotheticals and i in no way believe in any possibility that they are true.


Now, you may be thinking "I have faith that my religion is the true one and thats what makes me magical", the fact is that their are a bunch of religions which are not unethical in some way thats obvious (for example, i'd never be muslim due to many islamic laws i disagree with fiercely, the same goes for most forms of christianity)

Their are many religions that are equally ethical and impossible to tell the "true religion" if their is one at all, what type of god would be so petty that he would require you to by chance make the right choice, if you even make a choice seeing as most people are conditioned into religion by their parents.

feel free to argue with me but try actually making counter points rather than getting angry, criticizing my spelling/grammar, of general irrational posting.

I actually like 1 and 2....

[jelloshotsrule]

Since they pray to the Virgin Mary as well as Jesus, does this mean they are actually breaking the First Commandment?

no. basically, catholics are praying to mary, the saints, etc. for intercession on their behalf. in other words saying to them "you guys are pretty good folks, can you ask god to help me out?" i'm sure there are some catholics that don't really understand this, but that's the jist of it.

just fyi

[yellow]

Becuase it's time..

I've GOT to get myself one of these to lay waste to the unbelievers!

http://www.atomicathletic.com/store/images/products/rogergianthammer300.JPG

[Queso]

no. basically, catholics are praying to mary, the saints, etc. for intercession on their behalf. in other words saying to them "you guys are pretty good folks, can you ask god to help me out?" i'm sure there are some catholics that don't really understand this, but that's the jist of it.

just fyi
But the "virgin" Miriam (;)) had a child out of wedlock, so how can that be in keeping with Catholic teaching? Or were they just doing the Yuletide/Christmas thing and changing history again to suit their needs?

[jared_kipe]

Huh? How is it possible to exclude a Mormon from Christianity?
Is it because we don't subscribe to the Nicene Creed (which was the result of a bunch of man postulating and debating and eventually voting on the nature of God)?
Or is it because we believe in prophesy (like a surprising many other Christian churches, to the consternation of many other Christians)?
Or is it that we believe that God is just and that he would not condemn most of the world simply because they were born at a time/place where they couldn't be taught?
Or is it because we believe that the Bible is but one testament of Christ?
Or is the that we believe that God did care about the 10 tribes after they were scattered?
Or is it the fact that we don't have crosses anywhere in or around our buildings - seems disturbing to focus on a crucifixion since that doesn't make Jesus a Christ (otherwise we would have so many Christs we wouldn't know what to do with them), but rather look to a living Christ for hope and inspiration?
Or is it something else?

Please, do explain.
All christians put their faith in strait up fairy tales. But mormons take it farther as they believe in fairy tales that are said to have happened AFTER we stopped believing in those sorts of things.

Hey, but how do Mormons believe "that God is just and that he would not condemn most of the world simply because they were born at a time/place where they couldn't be taught?"
Do you not believe that all non mormons will basically go to purgatory until they choose to become mormon? But even then they cannot go to the highest kingdom? So how is that NOT saying that they will be condemned for not believing or not being around?

[MacNut]

Catholic here.

[zimv20]

And by the way thinking isn't knowing. ;)
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. - Bertrand Russell

[mjstew33]

Idols. Like Christ on a Crucifix found in nearly every Church?There's a reason why I am not a Catholic. ;)
My Church does have a cross on it, but not for the purpose of idolatry -- and no it's not gold -- my Church does better things in the world with it's money. Objects are useful as tools and/or representations (i.e. a computer helps me with ministry and a cross helps my Church represent itself as a Church). Idolatry is different it's worshiping things -- not worshiping the creator of things.

An artistic representation of Jesus is good too -- I don't mind being reminded about Jesus dying on a cross. I do think however that since Jesus was beaten so badly that He was unrecognizable the artwork should match up with that better -- although some might mistaken Him with some one else) -- so I guess I don't mind it too much.
That's another reason why I'm not a Catholic -- I follow the Bible.
WTF!!??!

You are "GodBless" and you are saying all this religious stuff, yet, you can't even come to appreciate other's religion and give them respect for following that? WTF? How is that serving God, buddy?!

you say we worship IDOLS? LMAO.

WE DON'T FOLLOW THE BIBLE? hehehe...

Listen dude, you've pissed off a number*of people, people who have contacted me and made me look at this thread, I'd stop with this whole Catholic bashing thing.. now.

but that is just if i were you, but i wouldn't say those rediculous things, however. :rolleyes:
which is PLURAL :rolleyes:

And, FYI, I'm a strong catholic - been going to a catholic school since preschool. For you to say those extremely, for a lack of a better word, absurd comments, just pisses me and a lot of other people off, big time. :mad:

[wmmk]

My Church does have a cross on it, but not for the purpose of idolatry
Wow! Even though only half of my family is Catholic and I am a practicing Jew, I found that to be very offensive! I will have you know that my mother does not pray to idols, and I believe you know that Catholics are not actually praying to statuesw of Mary, jst honoring them.

-- and no it's not gold -- my Church does better things in the world with it's money.
Such as what? I'm hoping this will be doing charity work as opposed to paying for 'missions' on which you force and/or encourage people to convert.

Objects are useful as tools and/or representations (i.e. a computer helps me with ministry and a cross helps my Church represent itself as a Church). Idolatry is different it's worshiping things -- not worshiping the creator of things. Again, who ever said Catholics worship things any more than your religion?

That's another reason why I'm not a Catholic -- I follow the Bible.
OK, I'm Jewish, so I know the Torah (or as you'd call it, the old testament) very well. If you followed everything written completely literally, you'd kill people, start wars for no reason, and do many other senseless things that are stated in the Bible. Times have changed since 4000BCE-200CE. Laws now are different than laws then.

Anyway, about your, 'If I had a bias then I wouldn't be reasonable.' sig. WTF!?!?!?!?! You are certainly unreasonable in that case! If you refuse to listen to people of other faiths and people who do not believe in G-d, you are biased and closed minded.You have truly offended many people, including myself. Please go evangelize somewhere other than MR.

[mjstew33]

OK, I'm Jewish, so I know the Torah (or as you'd call it, the old testament) very well. If you followed everything written completely literally, you'd kill people, start wars for no reason, and do many other senseless things that are stated in the Bible. Times have changed since 4000BCE-200CE. Laws now are different than laws then.

I agree with everything you said, but this.

In his defense, I *think* he was "following" the New Testament, but who knows. :rolleyes:

[wmmk]

I agree with everything you said, but this.

In his defense, I *think* he was "following" the New Testament, but who knows. :rolleyes:
true. I was using the Torah as an example, but I doiubt that every single word in the new testament is necesarrily the best advice for leading a good life in 2006 either.

[Mord]

dammit, someone argue with me.

usually people tend to throw more fits whenever i talk about religion.

for one i despise any "holier than thou" attitude because "i chose the correct religion".

every other religious person thinks they chose the correct religion and half will probably be more inteligent and better informed than you are, so to say that you know you chose the correct religion out blind faith is well, silly.

[Queso]

dammit, someone argue with me.

usually people tend to throw more fits whenever i talk about religion.

for one i despise any "holier than thou" attitude because "i chose the correct religion".

every other religious person thinks they chose the correct religion and half will probably be more inteligent and better informed than you are, so to say that you know you chose the correct religion out blind faith is well, silly.
Are you talking religion, or Mac vs. Windows? :D

[mjstew33]

for one i despise any "holier than thou" attitude because "i chose the correct religion".

every other religious person thinks they chose the correct religion and half will probably be more inteligent and better informed than you are, so to say that you know you chose the correct religion out blind faith is well, silly.
EXACTLY how I feel. Just plain arrogance, GodBless. :rolleyes:

and, wmmk-
I do, however disagree with your comment again.

I am extremely religious and as "corny" or "weird" as it may sound, the bible is ]ONE of the right way to live your life, no matter what way you put it. maybe, just maybe, you should study the New Testament instead of the Old. ;)

[MacNut]

I'll stir the pot a bit........

Religion, whatever one you may believe is meant to be a spiritual guide to help you along the way when you feel you need it. The problem is when you get the "jesus saves" and the "Holy Rollers" that want to spread a one sided view and just spend there whole lives preaching what they think is right. Pat Robertson comes to mind as one who is so far off base and thinks that if you don't follow him and what he says then you will be doomed for life. Religion is good but too much of it can be harmful too. People need to think outside the box when it comes to religion and not rely strictly on the teachings but make up there own conclusions.

Im Catholic, do I believe in the core teachings yes, but I also disagree on a lot of what the church tells me is right.

[Mord]

EXACTLY how I feel. Just plain arrogance, GodBless. :rolleyes:

and, wmmk-
I do, however disagree with your comment again.

I am extremely religious and as "corny" or "weird" as it may sound, the bible is the right way to live your life, no matter what way you put it. maybe, just maybe, you should study the New Testament instead of the Old. ;)

i've studied both, but i'm on no road to Damascus.

edit: just realised that's not to me, anyway, my point stands.

[steamboat26]

Atheist

[yg17]

I am extremely religious and as "corny" or "weird" as it may sound, the bible is the right way to live your life, no matter what way you put it. maybe, just maybe, you should study the New Testament instead of the Old. ;)

I don't follow the bible...never have and never will, but who the hell are you to tell me that I'm living my life the wrong way?