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View Full Version : Radeon 9800 release big whoop.


ottonian
Mar 6, 2003, 09:22 AM
So, as we [still] sit on the sidelines waiting for Apple to let us order our new machines with the radeon 9700 pro, ATI announced yeasterday the release dates for thier next generation of chips.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=581&e=1&cid=581&u=/nm/20030306/tc_nm/tech_ati_dc

ANYBODY out there have an idea what the hold up on the 9700 is?

I know, I should be more patient but this is getting a bit sad.

KingArthur
Mar 6, 2003, 10:59 AM
Remember, Apple is only about 2.5% of the market out there. ATI and nVidia are not too interested in putting forth a bunch of resources in a market that small, so you just have to be patient. It is probably a driver hold-up.

MacBandit
Mar 6, 2003, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by KingArthur
Remember, Apple is only about 2.5% of the market out there. ATI and nVidia are not too interested in putting forth a bunch of resources in a market that small, so you just have to be patient. It is probably a driver hold-up.

It's closer to 3 or 4% of all pc sales. If you are talking about actual installed hardware Apple computers are closer to 8% of the market. Apple is like the 2nd largest pc producer in the world. They are an undeniable market and NVidia recognizes it by giving us new products first. The least ATI could do is make there products available before they are updated.

ottonian
Mar 6, 2003, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
It's closer to 3 or 4% of all pc sales. If you are talking about actual installed hardware Apple computers are closer to 8% of the market. Apple is like the 2nd largest pc producer in the world. They are an undeniable market and NVidia recognizes it by giving us new products first. The least ATI could do is make there products available before they are updated.

exactly my feeling. At least let us order the machine. HAving the option there without the ability to order seems like business suicide. Wouldn't it look better on the books to have more orders pending then no orders from those waiting in the wings to spend thier money?

Sheesh!

TyleRomeo
Mar 6, 2003, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by ottonian
So, as we [still] sit on the sidelines waiting for Apple to let us order our new machines with the radeon 9700 pro, ATI announced yeasterday the release dates for thier next generation of chips.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=581&e=1&cid=581&u=/nm/20030306/tc_nm/tech_ati_dc

ANYBODY out there have an idea what the hold up on the 9700 is?

I know, I should be more patient but this is getting a bit sad.

check out tom's hardware.com for info on it. or check out ati.com. Its just slightly faster then the 9700.

Tyler

dstorey
Mar 6, 2003, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by ottonian
[B]So, as we [still] sit on the sidelines waiting for Apple to let us order our new machines with the radeon 9700 pro/B]

The APPLE front page has changed to 1.42 Powermac now shipping. Does this not mean the 9700 is ready and shipping?

MrMacMan
Mar 6, 2003, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by dstorey
The APPLE front page has changed to 1.42 Powermac now shipping. Does this not mean the 9700 is ready and shipping?

No the 1.42 does not come with the 9700 without customizing it, AND then it is still listed as availble soon.

yzedf
Mar 6, 2003, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
It's closer to 3 or 4% of all pc sales. If you are talking about actual installed hardware Apple computers are closer to 8% of the market. Apple is like the 2nd largest pc producer in the world. They are an undeniable market and NVidia recognizes it by giving us new products first. The least ATI could do is make there products available before they are updated.

How much of that is iMac/iBook/PowerBook sales? PowerMac sales suck. Have for quite some time. Something to do with overpriced underpowered hardware... or so I have heard ;)

ddtlm
Mar 6, 2003, 02:43 PM
MacBandit:

It's closer to 3 or 4% of all pc sales. If you are talking about actual installed hardware Apple computers are closer to 8% of the market. Apple is like the 2nd largest pc producer in the world.
Regarding this hypothetical 8% figure, nVidia and ATI don't care how many 5-year old Macs people are clinging to because they do not represent a market. Regarding the relevant number, 3%-4% of the computers actually being sold, only perhaps 15% of those 3%-4% even have an AGP slot, and of those, most people just get the cheap cards anyway. Even in the PC market the money is made with normal high-volume cards, so I figure Apple can't be making much if anything off their few high-end cards they ship. I think that they offer them more to appear compeditive that anything else.

On the other hand, people might recall that the Radeon 9000-M in the 15" TiBook was one of the first 9000 Mobility's on the market in any laptop, so clearly when there are sales to make, ATI and Apple can make it happen.

MaxArturo
Mar 6, 2003, 04:31 PM
Yeah, a friend sent that to me like 5 hours ago

bousozoku
Mar 6, 2003, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
It's closer to 3 or 4% of all pc sales. If you are talking about actual installed hardware Apple computers are closer to 8% of the market. Apple is like the 2nd largest pc producer in the world. They are an undeniable market and NVidia recognizes it by giving us new products first. The least ATI could do is make there products available before they are updated.

NVidia isn't doing anyone any favours. Apple has to integrate the hardware and create the drivers. NVidia only provides a reference design and chips from which all board makers work.

Here it's ATI which has to do the hard work. They're providing the boards, retail and otherwise, that go into the machines. They're writing the drivers to work with Apple's hardware.

iJon
Mar 6, 2003, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
They are an undeniable market and NVidia recognizes it by giving us new products first. The least ATI could do is make there products available before they are updated.
For one we have yet to see anything on the Geforce FX. Nvidia has done that same thing ATI did, remember the Geforce4 Ti came out for mac, nobody say one forl ike 2 or more months months. 3rd, ati is just like apple, releasing products they cant provide at the moment.

iJon

MacBandit
Mar 7, 2003, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by iJon
For one we have yet to see anything on the Geforce FX. Nvidia has done that same thing ATI did, remember the Geforce4 Ti came out for mac, nobody say one forl ike 2 or more months months. 3rd, ati is just like apple, releasing products they cant provide at the moment.

iJon

Absolutely and I understand that. At least NVidia made them available for order either simultaneously or slightly before the PC market. I would even handle slightly after but not 6 months after as it is with ATI. I'm not sure we will see the FX for Apple computers any day soon. They will most likely have tested the card with Apple and Apple have told them it's too loud. Why would Apple want to put that card in there computers when they are currently in the throws of paying out huge sums of money to change out fans and powersupplies for all the new towers from August to December because they were TOO loud.

barkmonster
Mar 7, 2003, 06:05 AM
Regarding this hypothetical 8% figure, nVidia and ATI don't care how many 5-year old Macs people are clinging to because they do not represent a market. Regarding the relevant number, 3%-4% of the computers actually being sold, only perhaps 15% of those 3%-4% even have an AGP slot, and of those, most people just get the cheap cards anyway.

If you think of all the macs in people's homes and offices right now that don't have a card than can handle Quartz Extreme but they do have AGP, both graphics card companies have quite a market on the mac just from existing users, let alone people buying new models this year.

Granted, you don't need a really fast graphics card to run most software but for people with Rage 128 pro cards in everthing from the earliest sawtooth G4s to all but the high end digital audio G4s, buying a new graphics card to extend the life of their current model would be something at least some people would be thinking. If it wasn't for quartz extreme support, it could just be for faster screen redraws, dual head support or even just playing games with a reasonable framerate.

As for the Radeon 9800 or even 9700 vs the GeForce FX series, who wants more fan noise and 1 less PCI slot just to get less performance than even the 9700 in a lot of tests and only get 10 fps or so more than a 9800 in a test that's already got both cards pushing past 60fps in the first place ?

I think this quote from the Tom's hardware review (http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030306/radeon9800pro-01.html) of the new Radeon series vs the GeForce FX series might explain why there's a delay bringing out the Mac 9700 card :

ATi is updating it's entire product line. All cards of the 9000, 9500, and 9700 series will be replaced by successors named 9200, 9600, and 9800, respectively.

iJon
Mar 7, 2003, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Absolutely and I understand that. At least NVidia made them available for order either simultaneously or slightly before the PC market. I would even handle slightly after but not 6 months after as it is with ATI. I'm not sure we will see the FX for Apple computers any day soon. They will most likely have tested the card with Apple and Apple have told them it's too loud. Why would Apple want to put that card in there computers when they are currently in the throws of paying out huge sums of money to change out fans and powersupplies for all the new towers from August to December because they were TOO loud.
that makes sense. i wasnt bashin you bandit. i was trying to make a point, and i just found out that you already made that point. but you are right about nvidia. you could go ahead and order a powermac with one, but with ati we have to keep checking back everynow and then to see if we can order one with a 9700.

iJon