How To Become A 17-Year-Old Freelance Photographer

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

How To Become A 17-Year-Old Freelance Photographer : Post One

A number of MacRumorians have posted threads discussing the same topic: freelance photography. However, oftentimes they are met with a hesitant crowd, one which ridicules the idea of selling photos without very much experience. So, after a few requests, I decided that I’d post a thread on my own experiences as a young, not-so-experienced freelance photographer, and then let you discuss the rest.

The most difficult obstacle of becoming successful is, of course, advertising. My business prospered off of ‘word-of-mouth’, although I made a number of posters to jump start the process as well. All of the posters had my email address and phone number available to tear away, and they were posted in a number of public facilities - including a local barn.

Now, contrary to popular belief, you don’t become successful based on skill or quality alone - rather, price is the central tool in luring potential clients. Unlike local professional photographers, whose margins were extremely high but volume was relatively limited, I based my business off of high volume and low margins. Therefore, both the customer and I won.

My initial pricing was undoubtedly low: 1 dollar for a 4x6, 3 dollars for a 5x7, and 5 dollars for an 8x10. But the quality was horrendous compared to the pictures in iGary’s “Picture of the Day Thread.” Fortunately, customers could not care less - I’ve never in my four years of photography heard a single complaint about the quality of the pictures (due to the obvious fact that the photos were so damn cheap in the first place.)

As time progressed, however, I knew that some upgrades were needed. First of all, I simply learned how to use the camera better - I invested in more memory and ultimately, the pictures did get better. The prices rose slightly (to what they are today - basically double the above prices) and customers remained satisfied. More and more individual requests were made (senior pictures, family portraits, and quite a few pet shots as well), although because I don’t have my own studio, all those pictures were taken outside at a local park.

With word-of-mouth spreading fast, I became increasingly dissatisfied with my photos - the quality was limited, and the age of my Minolta camera became more and more evident.

End of First Post

In the next post, I’ll post some of my earliest work, as well as some copies of the posters I used. Plus, I’ll discuss the changes I made beginning in my fourth year of freelance photography

Table Of Contents
Post One : Introduction : #1
Post Two : Developing The Basics : #13
Picture Gallery One : My First Pictures : #14
Post Three : Marketing / Spreading The Word : #25
Picture Gallery Two : Signs of Improvement : #31
Post Four : Change is Good. : #35
Picture Gallery Three : Before and After : #38

[mlrproducts]

I look forward to your coming posts

It hurts me to hear a few things:
1) That you pretty much began charging when you didn't have the experience. I would think that would hurt your future prospects, sort of limit you in where you wanted to grow.
and
2)The prices you've charged. While I know for a fact that competitive pricing is sometimes necessary, I think you're doing yourself and other photographers a disservice. For you, people may find it hard to pay when you raise your rates and the lower that photos get, makes it harder on everyone else. I know it doesn't cost you much now, and you're often going to be giving away your time, but the longer you do it the more you realize that $20+ for an 8x10 is necessary to cover studio, equipment, etc costs.

Can't wait to see all those photos! And may I ask how long you've been doing this now?

[form]

...As he said, he doesn't have his own studio, so it can't cost anything extra.

It appears to me that he's been doing it for...four years?

Not that it isn't somewhat true, but he didn't specifically say that he was totally inexperienced at photography when he started. (believe it or not, MOST people are inexperienced when they first start - weird, I know.) Instead, he hinted that his equipment was poor. If the circumstances had hurt his future prospects, he probably wouldn't be still doing it today.

It would make sense that, as his skill and equipment improves, he might begin to attract a different kind of audience which would be willing to pay more, even if the old customers have more trouble affording higher prices (which mostly means that they were looking for cheap more than quality anyway). Besides, he still has the freedom to give certain discounts to his long-time customers.

[Applespider]

I'd guess his target market isn't those who'd go to a professional in any case - and wouldn't know the difference between a pro shot and snapshot particularly either.

I can imagine several people I know who perhaps don't have a decent camera (digital or film - or don't want to use a whole roll for one picture) who might want a quick snap of something. They'd never to go a pro-photographer and pay several hundred dollars for an heirloom. It's a market gap and he took it.

If he does become a pro photographer with a studio and set-up, then I'd imagine his prices will go up to reflect costs. But if you're not paying for studio time, lighting equipment and making do with a cheap camera and not much post-processing, his prices are fair. In fact, I'd say they were downright cheap given there must be some element of travelling/processing time involved.

[mlrproducts]

You guys got me all wrong, you think I'm doggin this guy. I'm not, just calling it as I see it and I think I have valid points of concern. Like I said, I can't wait to read more, it'll be interesting.

Not that it isn't somewhat true, but he didn't specifically say that he was totally inexperienced at photography when he started. (believe it or not, MOST people are inexperienced when they first start - weird, I know.)
Weird, I'm talking about starting to charge. Of course your'e going to be inexperienced, but I'm talking about charging at that stage.

I'd say they were downright cheap
Exactly. I understand his position, because I've been in the same boat myself. However, you'll quickly learn to NOT underprice yourself. Competitive is the key word here.

[ChrisA]

At your age (17) you have a huge advantage. You don't need to make money. But look at me. I live in So. Calif. Not one house anyplace near me sell for less than $500,000 (yu can figure the payments) and my wife and two kids like to do thing like eat and drive or ride on cars, fly off to vistit relatives and so on. So If I couldn't clear hundreds of dollars a day then I'd have no house, no food not cars. Bottom line is that no sane 40+ year old could do what you are doing. I'd literally have to sell a tall stack of photos at your price EVERY HOUR EVERY DAY.

Also are you even leagal? Do you have a bussines license, do you do quarty estimated income payments to the state and feds. Social security payments (on both payroll and income). Do you pay workman's comp inssurance? Do you collect sales tax and forward the money to the state? If you are not doing ALL of these things then you are breaking the law and subject to a fine that would put you in brankrupcy. and at age 17 it's your parents who would have to pay. Also not paying the taxes and fees is the same as stealling from the local, state and federal governments and using that stolen money to substitize your bussines, possibly without such stolen money you would run a negative cash flow. OK lots of people work in the "underground economy" but in your case I'd bet non-payment of fees and taxes accounts for 1/2 your income so You might have to double your prices if you moved to a "leagal, above gound busines".

All that said. You are doing good. Keep at it. No one realy cares if a kid makes a few bucks under the table. But if ever you want to make more then a few bucks, like say enough to support a midle class lifestyle then the city, county, state and feds will all come looking for you.

You are right about two things. (1) Success depends more on advertizing, "value" in your product and self prometion then in anything else. and (2) Yes the general public is very non-critical of quality of images. I've heard from people who do weding videos that few customers care about the image. If they can make out the subject that's enough as long as there is no bad camera skale it's OK. But oddly even the smallest problem with audio quality and even undemending customers will judge the work as "rubish" so they are very carful to use multiple wireless mics, mini-disk recorders and carfully mix the sound. Odd that the public has more critical ears than eyes

[mlrproducts]

Thanks Chris for chiming in, I feel like the point I was hinting at was made well in your post.

Regardless of the tax nazi ;), it does give you an idea of why seemingly "expensive" prints are necessary.

[ChrisA]

Exactly. I understand his position, because I've been in the same boat myself. However, you'll quickly learn to NOT underprice yourself. Competitive is the key word here.

It depends on your goal and WHY you work

At age 17 he does not need the money. He is working for a differnt reason. He's not making two car payments and a mortgage and dosen't have any kids in colage. He is working for the experiance and money a seconary. His best bet is to set prices so as to maximize volume and gain what he values most whch is experiance. One good reason for him to slowly raise prices would be so that the _quality_ of the experiance could change. He would do less work but could spend more time on each and he would learn how to satisfy more demanding clients. The latter is importent If he ever wants to make big money he needs to know how to satisfy the most demending clients. It's those demending clients who are willing to pay more.

At age 17 it make purfect sense to work even at a negative cash flow. We call this "education". Heck I worked my ass off for years at a university and paid big bucks for the previlage. This guy is getting an education and pocket change at the same time, not a bad deal really. If the goal is "education"

[Moshiiii]

What camera did you start out with? I'm starting to get deeply into photography and would like to take some pictures to people but I'd probably get shooed away if I showed up with a Cannon Point & shoot.

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

What camera did you start out with? I'm starting to get deeply into photography and would like to take some pictures to people but I'd probably get shooed away if I showed up with a Cannon Point & shoot.

I started out with a Minolta DiMage 7i (not a bad camera - it's not an SLR, but it's pretty close, and with 1GB of professional memory it set me back about a grand...)

Thanks for all of those who have posted so far :) ! I'll post again later tonight - ultimately, I'll answer some of the more specific questions/comments you all have in a later post.

[ChrisA]

.... but I'd probably get shooed away if I showed up with a Cannon Point & shoot.

That is a very good point and explains why so many wedding photographers used Haselblads and Roli TLRs. The camera strongly influences the customer's, or subject perception of the photographer. You _could_ do most wedding photography with a small point and shoot but I doubt you could get a client to pay you $1,200 to shoot with a P&S. But if you spent $50 or $100 and rented some exotic looking camera for the day you could 4X the price.

Try it. I did. It's not expensive. Rent a Hasselblad CM500 Outfit for about $50 and take it to some public tourist area. Bring a stack of model release forms and they will line up waiting for their turn in front of the camera. I used to own a Mamiya RB67, same effect.
I rented the RB system before I bought one. (Had I been smarter and bought the Hassy I'd likey still own and use it RB67 was to big)

[Gil Bates]

The most difficult obstacle of becoming successful is, of course, advertising. My business prospered off of ‘word-of-mouth’, although I made a number of posters to jump start the process as well. All of the posters had my email address and phone number available to tear away, and they were posted in a number of public facilities - including a local barn.


You got that one right. You seem to be pretty smart for your age.

But your pricing seems to be very low. Other "professional" photographers wouldn't like that. Can you recover your equipment cost and other expenses from your "buisiness" income? If not, you are probably undercharging your customers. But, hey, it's a free world. You can charge whatever you want! :)

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

How To Become A 17-Year-Old Freelance Photographer : Post Two

What’s the key to taking good pictures? Is it based on natural talent alone? Experience? The camera itself, or the cameraman? Obviously, those of you who take pictures on a daily basis know that good pictures are a combination of all these keys and more. However, some are more important than others - fortunately, natural talent, in my opinion, plays the greatest role.

So, while I was just starting out, I did understand how to ‘frame’ a shot correctly (although I’ve gotten much better, and most photographers on this site are still light years ahead of me). Initially, I purchased a camera to take pictures at my annual Family Reunions, although I experimented with macros and portraits as well. Eventually, after learning how to use the ‘continuous shutter’ feature on my camera, I began taking pictures of horses for fun. And, after a few months, people requested to purchase the pictures, and before I knew it, ‘Peters Photography’ was born.

In 2003, my pricing structure looked like this:

4x6 : 1 dollar. 5x7 : 3 dollars. 8x10 : 5 dollars.


In 2004, my pricing structure looked like this:

4x6 : 1.50 dollars. 5x7 : 4 dollars. 8x10 : 7 dollars.

And in 2006, I raised my prices once more, to this:

4x6 : 2 dollars. 5x7 : 5 dollars. 8x10 : 10 dollars.


I’ve never charged a ‘session fee’ for individual orders; however, I do have a minimum order fee of 40 dollars. Basically, for the first few shows/orders I put through, I made an average of about 100 dollars for about 12 hours of work. Compare that to the last show I did, where I made about 400 dollars for closer to 8 hours of work.

Four years after ‘Peters Photography’ began, however, I finally realized that the quality of my shots weren’t cutting it. Continuous shutter mode, although offering more choice to the consumer, took shots in 2.8 megapixel resolutions. Plus, my camera didn’t shoot in standard 4x6 frames, so I was forced to crop pictures even further. Oftentimes, people’s heads were cut off, horse’s tails were cut off, or the pictures were so blurry you could hardly recognize the rider. And that was with a 4x6 picture. Imagine the problems I was seeing with 8x10 photos...

So I invested in a Nikon D50 with a 300mm telephoto lens (around 11x optical on a point and shoot). And the pictures, immediately, became immensely better...choice was reduced (as I no longer use the continuous shutter), but quality increased.

End Of Second Post

In the next post, I’ll focus on marketing with limited resources.

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

How To Become A 17-Year-Old Freelance Photographer : Picture Gallery One

I know, I know. These are absolutely terrible. And no, they weren't sold to anyone. But I do want to give you guys an idea of where I started and where I am today.

Well, here's where I started :p:

http://web.mac.com/c.peters06/iWeb/Site/17%20Year%20Old%20Freelancing_files/Ally%20on%20Rocky.jpg

http://web.mac.com/c.peters06/iWeb/Site/17%20Year%20Old%20Freelancing_files/AllyRocky3.jpg

http://web.mac.com/c.peters06/iWeb/Site/17%20Year%20Old%20Freelancing_files/PICT0029.jpg

[Applespider]

Hmm... got to admit that they'd be tough shots to take in a studio! ;)

[Drodr28]

This is a great idea for a post and I appluade you for starting it. My response to some of the obviously older, bitter, professional or semi-professional photgraphers is go back to your car payments and complaints. He is 17, not 47. For the OP, charge whatever you want. If you do not cover your costs, so what. Stepping on other Photographers toes may not be the best career move, but dam it last time I checked we practice capitalism in this country and the markets are controlled by supply and demand, not some unspoken Photographer's pricing plan.

It does not sound like you are in this for a steady income or are using these images for professional purposes. If this is something you would like to move towards, go ahead and make a career about it and then worry about the taxman. Have fun just taking great pictures, and be happy you are talented enough to even sell one $1 print. I doubt the IRS is gonna come down hard on back taxes owed on $1 prints advertised on a local barn.

A close friend of mine started like you did at around 15, and now at 25 he has built a solid career and portfolio and no longer needs to do wedding shoots or sell 5X7 prints to support himself. And yes he now pays taxes, both federally and locally.

Keep it up and I look forward to seeing more of your work.

[law guy]

This is a great idea for a post and I appluade you for starting it. My response to some of the obviously older, bitter, professional or semi-professional photgraphers is go back to your car payments and complaints.



I think all ChrisA and others were saying was that this is interesting but there are different rules when property taxes are $7000, annual mortgage is $32,000, montly car payments are $800, monthly gas is $200, $3200 a year for car insurance, weekly groceries are $150, winter heating oil is $2700, monthly electricity is $180, cable phone and cells is $260 every month, student loans are $1500 a month, your clothes, wife's clothes, kids clothes, medical co-pays, house up-keep, etc. and $160K might be your pre-tax breakeven point.

Is it obvious that lift makes the application of the 17-year old story limited in applicability? You'd hope, but I think that's all folks were noting. I didn't see them getting down on the OP and everyone seems to be saying "that's great. Keep it up".

[Clix Pix]

All I can say is, the customer is getting what he/she is paying for....

Too bad.

[prof-pixel]

Chris,

Congratulations on your start in photography as a career.

I, MANY years ago, as a 17 year old in college, worked in a photo store and did freelance photography work. It eventually led to me working for Eastman Kodak for 22 years as an imaging scientist and now a career as a writer/consultant on digital imaging technology.

Keep at it!

Prof. Pixel

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

All I can say is, the customer is getting what he/she is paying for....

Too bad.

I always look forward to your posts, as your photos are extremely good (although your posts are a bit harsh...:( ).

Anyway, hopefully as I post more and more photos in the 'Picture of the Day' thread and this thread, you'll offer some constructive criticism - I would truly appreciate it.

For now, though, let's be humane :p :rolleyes: .

[Cybix]

I found this thread a good read (so far).. both the story, and the criticism...

do what makes you happy, and if you make a buck at the same time, good for you. It seems you have an understanding of how much you should be charging your customer based on your quality of work.. in my opinion that on it's own is a valuable skill to have.

[mlrproducts]

This is a great idea for a post and I appluade you for starting it. My response to some of the obviously older, bitter, professional or semi-professional photgraphers is go back to your car payments and complaints. He is 17, not 47. For the OP, charge whatever you want. If you do not cover your costs, so what. Stepping on other Photographers toes may not be the best career move, but dam it last time I checked we practice capitalism in this country and the markets are controlled by supply and demand, not some unspoken Photographer's pricing plan.

It does not sound like you are in this for a steady income or are using these images for professional purposes. If this is something you would like to move towards, go ahead and make a career about it and then worry about the taxman. Have fun just taking great pictures, and be happy you are talented enough to even sell one $1 print. I doubt the IRS is gonna come down hard on back taxes owed on $1 prints advertised on a local barn.

A close friend of mine started like you did at around 15, and now at 25 he has built a solid career and portfolio and no longer needs to do wedding shoots or sell 5X7 prints to support himself. And yes he now pays taxes, both federally and locally.

Keep it up and I look forward to seeing more of your work.

Everything I've said is because I HAVE BEEN IN HIS SITUATION! Man, learn from those who travelled the hard road before you!

I began taking an interest in photography when I was 16. I'm now in my twenties and do pretty well on my photography, considering it is my "second job" after my real (read: salaried) job.

[form]

I love the adults who live their lives making all those payments, doing things the way they know how, talking of the hard effort required to stay afloat in their situations. It's really worth applause, that they should be able to manage under such circumstances.

I also think it's wonderful how 40+ year olds, thanks to their vast experience, can be so skilled at complimenting someone's efforts while simultaneously attacking them. For me, the question of priority arises: Is it their intent to give praise, or are they really trying to scare somebody out of their wits? I must wonder, and in wondering, I may find less desirable possibilities to be safer bets.

Subject to a fine that would put him in bankruptcy? Well...you, sir, might as well go ahead and make the call on him right now. I congratulate you on your discreet manner of intimating, intimidating and castrating - all in one post. Many people have far less skill in that field.

Surely you are right, no sane 40+ year old could...so that means all sane 40+ year olds do all the things you do, pay all the same things you do, and could never sell photos in the manner he does. You are the standard, Mr. A-1 Law-abiding citizen. Good for you, that you pay this tax, pay that insurance, pay for these licenses, respect all those government entities, and so forth.

He's not 40+, he's not supporting a family, owning his own house, paying for god knows what that he doesn't need. Somehow, I DOUBT very seriously that he will be in the exact same position in...20 years?...as he's in now, with regards to the way he handles business. Prices will change, Quality will change, Circumstances will change. Why, in 20 years, he might have a career in an entirely different field. Your points are moot...but congratulations, again, on your being the standard for a 40+ year-old male.

I'm not defending the original poster. I'm merely finding it extremely difficult to perceive ChrisA's comments as anything but disgruntled, resentful, and perhaps even jealous complaints, scare tactics, and even threats.

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

To both those defending my business and arguing against it, I appreciate your feedback - but this thread is really aimed at those interested in freelance photography or those who have previously asked me how I've managed to charge for my pictures (Clix Pix, for example :p ).

Peters Photography is not my job. I work at Sears - Sears is my 30+ hour per week job. Obviously, I pay taxes on the money I make from Sears - comparatively, Peters Photography's income is much less. I'm not quite sure what the laws are, but in Colorado I believe there is a minimum 2000 dollar annual amount before you have to file for income taxes if you are under 17 per job. Again, don't quote me on that! Next summer, if I choose to continue this endeavor, will be the first summer that I'll file for income tax on Peters Photography income as well as raise prices (hey, it had to happen sometime...). Ultimately, I'd have to pursue a number of other 'business licenses', but I'm 17. Let's be real ;) .

Now, onto my next post...(below)

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

How To Become A 17-Year-Old Freelance Photographer : Post Three

Marketing. We all know how hard it can be to ‘spread the word’. Take Apple, for example: who would’ve thought that with all of its genius, it would remain below 5% market share through 2006? I know it’s difficult for many of us to comprehend how the everyday user couldn’t realize that Macs run Microsoft Office...but it’s true. Every time I go into my local Apple Store, there are new customers asking the sales associates, “what do Macs use to run Word?”

Successful marketing is based on a number of factors (unfortunately, many of these factors are beyond my control). For example, it becomes increasingly difficult to market a product when you’re a 14-year-old male. And, photography isn’t exactly the least competitive industry out there (just look at some of the angry posts in this thread!)

The key to marketing at my young age was not, surprisingly, producing a number of posters or business cards. Rather, it was finding the appropriate demographic. There is a huge population out there looking for expensive, one-of-a-kind portraits (and there are a number of photographers out there willing to meet that need). There is also a huge population out there looking for basic, reasonably priced photos - in my mind, those potential clients remain somewhat untapped...

Now, I have volunteered at a professional photography studio during one of my many summers. Therefore, I’m familiar with the pricing and quality that comes out of these professional studios - do not, for one second, think that I’m competing against these photographers. I am, however, competing against two other types of photographers - those who specifically take shots of horses and the mom’s and dad’s of the riders who take their own pictures. It’s true: I do sell photos that I take (primarily macro shots) and I have done senior photos and pet portraits in the past, but horseback riding shows are my main focus.

Therefore, to market myself successfully, I had to price my pictures far below industry average (to compete with those taking pictures of horses) while retaining some level of quality (the pictures I took were, for the most part, superior in quality to the point-and-shoot pictures that many of the mom’s and dad’s took).

Fortunately, that did the trick. Word of mouth spread very quickly, and today I’m filling out individual orders on a fairly regular basis.

Of course, while word of mouth did most of the marketing, I ultimately needed to add a website and make some memorable posters to become more competitive...

End Of Third Post

Up Next: The Fourth Year - a transition from amateur to advanced amateur, from point and shoot to dSLR, from pamphlets to a website...

[kodiak]

OP, do you do mainly 'Event Photography' or sell stock photos?
by events, i mean local events, shoots for races, fetes, familys... which are then sold directly to relatives/friends/participants... (defn might even exclude weddings, which are a bit different)

-looked at your website, seems to be a mix, but unsure which ones you actually sell more of.

i think event photography is rather a different market to studio based.
quality can (not saying they are :)) be lower, and also price usually is too, aim is to sell many shots in one outing.

with event photos i thought, key to success in this, is getting the right events, and agreements with organiser - particularly good events are ones involving children/pets. then making sure you get pictures of everyone/thing.

i think event photography is not as difficult to get into, in the uk you can buy a franchise to get you going,
perhaps a good place to start for youngsters?

[jelloshotsrule]

All I can say is, the customer is getting what he/she is paying for....

Too bad.

great post! :rolleyes:

keep up the good work peter, it's awesome to see such motivation and obvious business sense at such a young age. i wish i had your motivation.

[Applespider]

All I can say is, the customer is getting what he/she is paying for....

Too bad.

Did you even read the line at the top where he says

I know, I know. These are absolutely terrible. And no, they weren't sold to anyone. But I do want to give you guys an idea of where I started and where I am today.


Since he seems to be into multipart posts, I imagine that his Picture Gallery 1 is where he started and his next post will show some of his better pictures.

Incidentally, having seem some 'special event' snapshots by family members, these at least have both horse and rider in them without having part cut-off or being entirely blurry.

[Clix Pix]

I always look forward to your posts, as your photos are extremely good (although your posts are a bit harsh...:( ).

Anyway, hopefully as I post more and more photos in the 'Picture of the Day' thread and this thread, you'll offer some constructive criticism - I would truly appreciate it.

For now, though, let's be humane :p :rolleyes: .

Sometimes I do come across a bit too bluntly....sorry about that!

Yes, I'll be interested in seeing how you do with your new camera and gear!

The POTD thread is a fun one for all of us and a great way to share progress!

[Clix Pix]

Peters Photography is not my job. I work at Sears - Sears is my 30+ hour per week job. Obviously, I pay taxes on the money I make from Sears - comparatively, Peters Photography's income is much less. I'm not quite sure what the laws are, but in Colorado I believe there is a minimum 2000 dollar annual amount before you have to file for income taxes if you are under 17 per job.

If you are already working and are being taxed on earned income, you had better take a good look at federal, state and local tax laws to be sure that you are not doing something that could be regarded as illegal. The fact that you have a website advertising "Peters Photography" with your prices and such makes it all too easy for the revenue boys to come after you if they think you're running a business without proper licensing and raking in loads extra "under the table." This is a little different situation than the kid who babysits from time to time and doesn't declare that income in addition to his or her job at a supermarket.

While I know some of us on here sound like fuddy-duddies or bitter or jaded, we are also coming from the perspective of experience -- not necessarily just years of experience in photography, but years of experience in life, in the working world, in the world where we sit down every March and calculate how much Uncle Sam is extorting from us come April 15th.... and we pay real estate taxes, pay to keep a roof over our heads and food in our families' mouths, etc., etc. Those who are in business for themselves are mindful of all the p's and q's of such a venture.

You seem like a smart, ambitious young man, so take some time now to be sure that you are doing everything legally and aboveboard, getting a business license if it is required, paying the necessary taxes, etc. It's not as simple as putting up a website advertising a "business" and charging people for your photos...

Oh -- and keep taking photos, whether or not you are paid for them, as you do show promise.

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

How To Become A 17-Year-Old Freelance Photographer : Picture Gallery Two

Now, I recognize that the quality in the shots below is still very, very low - we're talking around 2.5 megapixels :eek:. But, the technique clearly improved over the shots I was taking in 2003.

Still, it requires very little skill to take pictures of horses jumping - at least, when your using continuous shutter mode. On my Minolta DiMage 7i, I could take 7 frames per second - effectively sucking out all the skill that was required in taking shots of horses jumping. Today, I use a Nikon D50; while it is a much better camera, it is much more difficult to take pictures with, as its continuous shutter mode is far too slow to take pictures of horses jumping.

Anyway, here's a look at the pictures I was taking in 2004 (now, these are pictures of a white horse - which, believe it or not, turn out much, much better than pictures of darker horses - this is one of my best 2004 shots, so you can see how much room I still had for improvement! :o )

http://web.mac.com/c.peters06/iWeb/Site/17%20Year%20Old%20Freelancing_files/b%20%282%29.jpg
As you can see, the background was very distracting - sure, sometimes busy backgrounds are inevitable, but in this case, it's really inexcusable...

http://web.mac.com/c.peters06/iWeb/Site/17%20Year%20Old%20Freelancing_files/b%20%289%29%208x10_%201_%20B44.jpg
2.5 megapixel shots made cropping effectively impossible - as you can see, this shot would have benefited tremendously with a bit of cropping around the sides...

Because I had a strong desire to get better (I was only 15 at this time), I decided to practice on my dogs as well (you'll enjoy these shots! :D ):

http://web.mac.com/c.peters06/iWeb/Site/17%20Year%20Old%20Freelancing_files/PICT0048.jpg
My Jack Russel Terrier, "Pika"

http://web.mac.com/c.peters06/iWeb/Site/17%20Year%20Old%20Freelancing_files/PICT0038.jpg
My Weiner Dog, "Heidi"

Hopefully you're beginning to see that my biggest problem was not only the resolution of the pictures, but the 'blur' that the continuous shutter mode produced. Some of the pictures I took at horse shows were so dissapointingly blurry that I never even made them available for sale. Clearly, a new technique or camera was in my future...;)

[dextertangocci]

...A number of MacRumorians...

lol. MacRumorians:D

[njmac]

I'm glad you are able to find a market for your photography. Have you checked out SportsShooter.com (http://www.sportsshooter.com)? Browse the articles and the forums and see what you can learn from the pro sports photographers.

Good luck with your next shoot.

[kodiak]

are you panning the camera with the subject?
or just trying to freeze it with shutter speed?

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

How To Become A 17-Year-Old Freelance Photographer : Post Four

Change is good. Just look at Apple - I know it may seem like they take forever to update their products, but for those who don’t follow Apple on a day-to-day basis, it seems like they’re always coming out with something new (remember Madonna? She said that “every time she buys an iPod, Apple replaces it with a newer model.”)

Well, after three years of consistent, but relatively limited, improvement, I knew that I needed to invest more in my ‘photography adventure’ than I had previously. Previously, I based my business model off of my local professional photography studio - I gave the customer a ‘binder’ full of color thumbprints, and allowed them to order which pictures they wanted with a ‘purchase order’ form. Ultimately, however, customers (especially older ones) wanted to see their pictures blown up. So, I started taking my laptop to their house, and going through each picture individually. Finally, with the advent of iWeb and my purchase of .mac, I was able to make a basic website that people could visit and view their photos on in the comfort of their own home.

Unfortunately, customers (notably teenage horseback riders) copied a number of the pictures straight from the website and pasted them in their MySpace profiles or printed the pictures themselves. So, I’ll have to figure out a way to combat that in the future...

After the June 6th show at Cottonwood, I also finally realized that I needed to purchase a new camera. While continuous shutter mode was easy to use and offered more pictures-per-jump, the quality was terrible. Therefore, I went ahead and purchased the Nikon D50.

Now, it is much more difficult to ‘snap’ a single picture with the D50 than it was to use continuous shutter mode to ‘snap’ 14 pictures on my Minolta. The skill required to use the D50 is much higher than the Minolta - and therefore, I’ve been practicing quite a bit in preparation for the August 5th show. But, the quality is undoubtedly higher, and hopefully I’ll feel less guilty charging for my pictures.

I mentioned in an earlier post that I competed with two distinct groups of photographers - the moms and dads with their point and shoots, and the more advanced photographers that focus solely on equine photography. Clearly, I had to strike a balance between price and quality - and, after buying a new camera, I’ll have to adjust my prices accordingly (although I won’t be changing them midseason).

End Of Post Four

In the final few posts, I’ll focus specifically on my website and on where I see myself going from here. However, look for more photo galleries to come soon!

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

This isn't one of my 'official' posts ( :p ) but I think it's important nonetheless.

The best way to improve, other than simply going out and practicing, is to compare yourself to other photographers doing similar work. And that's what I did - beginning a few months ago.

By the way, since pricing is such an interesting point of discussion to so many, this is also how I got an idea about how much I would charge...

Here's a gallery from one of the 'professional' equine photographers I've looked at recently.

Main Site: http://rhoodphoto.tripod.com/id4.html
Gallery: http://www.shutterfly.com/progal/album.jsp?aid=768a5498cf45c402efdf

Personally, I believe that my shots are competent (or even superior in some cases) to his shots - although I tend to focus more on jumping than he does, jumping is more difficult to capture than a horse doing flat work...

His pricing structure (in a nutshell) looks like this:
4x6 : 5 dollars
5x7 : 10 dollars
8x10 : 15 dollars

As you can see, it's not too different from my pricing structure (yeah, it's a bit more expensive, but not lightyears ahead of what I charge...)

Eventually, I got to looking at other, (better) photographers - especially those that focused on jumping. That's when I realized that I needed a new camera.

Here's an example of one of their shots: http://www.christinahandley.com/details.php?gid=90&sgid=&pid=1094 (I can't post the picture in this thread, due to copyright violations...)

...And here's one of mine (with the old camera):
http://web.mac.com/c.peters06/iWeb/Site/Group%20D_files/PICT0226.jpg

...And here's one of mine (with the new camera):
http://web.mac.com/c.peters06/iWeb/Site/Brittany,%20Mia,%20Haley,%20and%20Savannah%20%3A%20Lesson%207-12_files/DSC_0137.jpg

Clearly, she had some advantages (she was out in an open field, whereas I was stuck in an arena) - but, she charges 20 dollars for a 4x6 (10 times what I charge). You can, however, see how much improvement there is between my old camera and my new camera...

Hopefully, you're beginning to understand how difficult it is for a 17-year-old like myself to make sure that everything he does is 'fair' and successful.

[iGary]

Hopefully, you're beginning to understand how difficult it is for a 17-year-old like myself to make sure that everything he does is 'fair' and successful.

I really don't understand the whole point of this post other than to give yourself a big ol' self gratuitous pat on the back, personally.

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

How To Become A 17-Year-Old Freelance Photographer : Picture Gallery Three

Note: I'll try my best to use similar jumps so that you can get an idea of how much the shots have improved...

Before:
http://web.mac.com/c.peters06/iWeb/Site/Group%20D_files/PICT0214.jpg

And After:
http://web.mac.com/c.peters06/iWeb/Site/Brittany,%20Mia,%20Haley,%20and%20Savannah%20%3A%20Lesson%207-12_files/DSC_0067.jpg

Before:
http://web.mac.com/c.peters06/iWeb/Site/Group%20D_files/PICT0274.jpg

And After:
http://web.mac.com/c.peters06/iWeb/Site/Brittany,%20Mia,%20Haley,%20and%20Savannah%20%3A%20Lesson%207-12_files/DSC_0136.jpg

Before:
http://web.mac.com/c.peters06/iWeb/Site/Group%20D_files/PICT0290.jpg

And After:
http://web.mac.com/c.peters06/iWeb/Site/Brittany,%20Mia,%20Haley,%20and%20Savannah%20%3A%20Lesson%207-12_files/DSC_0146.jpg

Obviously, I still have a lot of work to do - but it's improving...right?

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

I really don't understand the whole point of this post other than to give yourself a big ol' self gratuitous pat on the back, personally.

Glad you understand where I'm coming from :p - it is slightly annoying to be told I'm charging too much...

[JosiahPB]

Is it bad to say I think anyone with the camara you have could produce these shots. Although your pictures do look good, it seems as if your knowledge doesn't exceed that of a member of a high school photography class...Just my opinion.

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

Is it bad to say I think anyone with the camara you have could produce these shots. Although your pictures do look good, it seems as if your knowledge doesn't exceed that of a member of a high school photography class...Just my opinion.

It's taken me about four years to get to where I am today - a lot of photography lies in skill, in luck, or in natural talent. I've seen phenomenal pictures taken by other high school students - then again, I've seen terrible pictures taken by them as well (just looking at my high school newspaper).

Surprisingly, the D50 is a lot more complicated and difficult to use than the Minolta. I said a number of times that anyone could take the shots I was taking with the Minolta (very little skill was required) - the D50, however, is a different story

[njmac]

What do you plan on majoring in at College? Do you want to do this as a career? (I'm just curious..... has nothing to do with that other thread:p )

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

What do you plan on majoring in at College? Do you want to do this as a career? (I'm just curious..... has nothing to do with that other thread:p )

Well I want to be a chemical engineer (which, obviously, has tons to do with photography ;) ). To be honest, I don't see myself pursuing photography mcuh after this summer...too 'competitive' of a market :p

[Dr_Maybe]

Also not paying the taxes and fees is the same as stealling from the local, state and federal governments and using that stolen money to substitize your bussines, possibly without such stolen money you would run a negative cash flow.

That doesn't make any sense, unless you think the government owns everyone and everything.

If someone gives me their money for work, it is my money. When did it become the governments money? Taxation is robbery.

[form]

If only everyone came to that conclusion.

I think ChrisA just believes everyone else should have to pay because he does.

[Nuc]

That doesn't make any sense, unless you think the government owns everyone and everything.

If someone gives me their money for work, it is my money. When did it become the governments money? Taxation is robbery.
I like how you think. Unfortunately I don't want to end up in jail...

Nuc

Edit: on a side note why not add a watermark to your photos on your website. I did a quick search at the apple download site and found EasyBatchPhoto (http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/imaging_3d/easybatchphoto.html). You could also try version tracker but I'm to lazy.

[seenew]

Interesting posts, all around. I do think the criticisms were a bit harsh, especially ChrisA's first post. :\

But yeah, I'm just posting to say that I'm 18, and I tried freelancing for a short while (horses as well, actually!), and I found it just to be more trouble than it was worth. I couldn't charge high prices, though I did charge more than you did/do, and it still wasn't enough to justify the gas and equipment expenses that came along with it. Not to mention the time involved. Finishing up high school, I had a lot on my plate already.
So I just continued to shoot for fun, got recommended and hired to head the digital post-processing section of a local studio. That was more fulfilling; getting to work around pros, ask questions, observe, and even borrow equipment-- all while getting paid $7/hr to work literally whatever hours I wanted.
I started my site, just for fun, to show off my work, and a few people have asked me to shoot photos for them, or paint, or draw. I've never pursued clients, they just fall into my lap sometimes and I get to make some extra cash and get some more experience. Like this past week when I went out on a shoot with a local band, had a lot of fun, learned a lot about my new 350D, and just charged them $250 for the session, didn't offer prints, just a DVD with all the best shots (about 125 good ones).
I guess I'm just saying I can appreciate what you're doing, but I myself don't think it's worth it until you get the experience/skills to charge pro prices and open a studio of your own.
Plus, I've got college in less than 2 months, no time to run a small business!

[beavo451]

After the June 6th show at Cottonwood, I also finally realized that I needed to purchase a new camera. While continuous shutter mode was easy to use and offered more pictures-per-jump, the quality was terrible. Therefore, I went ahead and purchased the Nikon D50.

Now, it is much more difficult to ‘snap’ a single picture with the D50 than it was to use continuous shutter mode to ‘snap’ 14 pictures on my Minolta. The skill required to use the D50 is much higher than the Minolta - and therefore, I’ve been practicing quite a bit in preparation for the August 5th show. But, the quality is undoubtedly higher, and hopefully I’ll feel less guilty charging for my pictures.



To be honest, your before and after shots show improvement. You now are exposing the pictures correctly. However, composition and technique is still quite poor. There are some obviously misfocused shots. Even the photo that you linked is not very good.

The next step is to learn the panning technique. Set a slower shutter speed on your camera and put it on AF-C (does the D50 have lock on? if so, turn it off). Follow the horse and rider in your viewfinder so that you are turning the camera smoothly. Right before the jump, start the burst and follow the horse through the jump and after the land. You should see an improvement in keeper photos. Also, since the background will be motion blurred, the composition and feel of the photo should be improved as well. Try new angles as well. Or if you are feeling brave, stand next to the obstacle and use a wide angle lens.

My view onb photography is 1/3rd gear and 2/3rd photographer. You have the gear part down, now just work on the photographer part.

[Chip NoVaMac]

That doesn't make any sense, unless you think the government owns everyone and everything.

If someone gives me their money for work, it is my money. When did it become the governments money? Taxation is robbery.

Nice thought, but roads, police/fire protection, and so much more requires that we all pay taxes.

[seenew]

I think there are some limitations, but I'm fairly sure you can make money and not have to procure a buisness license, as long as it's like, a hobby or something. A friend of mine works on cars out of his house like this.

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

To be honest, your before and after shots show improvement. You now are exposing the pictures correctly. However, composition and technique is still quite poor. There are some obviously misfocused shots. Even the photo that you linked is not very good.

The next step is to learn the panning technique. Set a slower shutter speed on your camera and put it on AF-C (does the D50 have lock on? if so, turn it off). Follow the horse and rider in your viewfinder so that you are turning the camera smoothly. Right before the jump, start the burst and follow the horse through the jump and after the land. You should see an improvement in keeper photos. Also, since the background will be motion blurred, the composition and feel of the photo should be improved as well. Try new angles as well. Or if you are feeling brave, stand next to the obstacle and use a wide angle lens.

My view onb photography is 1/3rd gear and 2/3rd photographer. You have the gear part down, now just work on the photographer part.

Thanks for the advice (usually when I try using a slower shutter, though, the rider gets blurred...) - does anyone know how to avoid this? Oh, and what particular 'linked' picture are you talking about? Thanks :)

[seenew]

Thanks for the advice (usually when I try using a slower shutter, though, the rider gets blurred...) - does anyone know how to avoid this? Thanks :)

I think he means something like 1/30 or 1/40s shutter. Then, when you're panning with the rider and take a shot, the rider should come out relatively clear, and the background will have a nice motion blur to it. That's how they take road shots of cars.

[beavo451]

Eventually, I got to looking at other, (better) photographers - especially those that focused on jumping. That's when I realized that I needed a new camera.

Here's an example of one of their shots: http://www.christinahandley.com/details.php?gid=90&sgid=&pid=1094 (I can't post the picture in this thread, due to copyright violations...)


That is the particular linked photo I am talking about.

To avoid the blurred rider, pan the camera smoothly and in pace with the rider. If my previous explanation of panning is unclear, look up some panning techniques on Google. I don't have any good illustrations to show how to do it.

Here's a gallery from one of the 'professional' equine photographers I've looked at recently.

Main Site: http://rhoodphoto.tripod.com/id4.html
Gallery: http://www.shutterfly.com/progal/alb...98cf45c402efdf


There are one or two really good photos in the first link, but the rest are more or less snap shots. The portraiture and wedding section is pretty good, but could use improvement.

The second link is more snapshots. Could use some post processing work to bring out the dark face more. Fill flash would have been ideal, but I don't think it would be ideal. There is even one photo with severe lens flare (IMG_1216).

If you want a very good learning resource and community, fredmiranda.com is a very informative site. They can be pretty brutally honest at times, but don't become discouraged.

I would suggest to practice more and since the horses aren't always around, the best way to practice would be to shoot moving cars. Practice the panning technique, post more photos, and ask more questions will help you improve. Then you will start taking pictures that are worth buying.

I started out with a fully manual film camera and it has taken me nearly 5 years of learning and practicde to produce acceptable results where people will actually consider hiring me and buying my photos. You have plenty of time to learn and practice.

[gekko513]

That doesn't make any sense, unless you think the government owns everyone and everything.

If someone gives me their money for work, it is my money. When did it become the governments money? Taxation is robbery.
That's bull. There's no such thing as the governments money. Unless you've noticed, all the taxes that people pay are used on the people or on behalf of the people.

People who don't pay their fair share of taxes steal from the people who do pay taxes, because the expenses in the budget are the same and the cost is spread out on the tax payers.


And for AvSRoCkCO1067. I'm glad you started this thread. I think the main thing to learn here is that you need to find a niche where there's an unfilled demand. There's no use in doing what everyone else does even if your skills and equipment are decent. You need to find a market.

[mlrproducts]

And for AvSRoCkCO1067. I'm glad you started this thread. I think the main thing to learn here is that you need to find a niche where there's an unfilled demand. There's no use in doing what everyone else does even if your skills and equipment are decent. You need to find a market.

Take full advantage of and maximize that demand.

[FrankieTDouglas]

From reading this thread and viewing your website, and seeing how you word everything...

I really don't feel like photography is a passion in your life. Something to make some money in, maybe, but not much else. You focus on the equipment and the monetary issues, but nothing about creating pictures that "say something."

In my opinion, I'd spend more time to devoting yourself to photography for the sake of photography. Do that for six months or a year. Do it until you can find a REASON or an IDEA in the picture. Until you can observe the whole scene in your viewfinder, not the single instance in the center of the frame. THEN return to the marketplace and bring this mentality to the events. You'll find the photos will be a LOT better.

[Doctor Q]

Thread closed by request.