Safari Beta v64

[MacRumors]

Safari v64 is making the rounds.

Safari v62 brought us Tabs, and this new version (v64) appears to provide increased stability, improved tab appearance, loading status for tabs, and enhanced autocomplete.

Meanwhile, David Hyatt posted (http://www.mozillazine.org/weblogs/hyatt/#002603) his perspective on Tabs in browsers as well as some implementation issues.

[arn]

Please no posts or requests of where to get Safari v64.

[e2chris]

when is this going to be released?

[MrMacMan]

Ah sweet, now I'll just check back here to see who has it already. :D

Originally posted by arn
Please no posts or requests of where to get Safari v64.

Are you begin threatend by apple again? :(

[e2chris]

I need tabs man! I need em! mmmm tabs!

[arn]

Originally posted by MrMacman
Are you begin threatend by apple again? :(

No...

It's just common sense.

arn

[MacAztec]

Heres a pic...

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by e2chris
I need tabs man! I need em! mmmm tabs!
v62 has tabs.

Check the v62 thread.

Originally posted by arn
No...

It's just common sense.

arn

sure no one needs 3 pages of WHERE DO I GET posts but if someone post a picture aint that fine?

[TMA]

I'm so happy!

Right clicking on a link and choosing "Open Link in New Tab" now opens the page in a background tab - leaving you free to carry on reading the first page. :) Also another excellent feature is that if you have folders in your bookmark bar you can open all its contents into multiple tabs with a single click. :)

On the minus side i'm experiencing alot of sites with green text where it should be black :( A very strange bug.

[synthetickittie]

I dont have v62 but how is that pic posted above any different the the pics Ive seen posted for 62 because assumming that pic was of a 64 verison that you have

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by synthetickittie
I dont have v62 but how is that pic posted above any different the the pics Ive seen posted for 62 because assumming that pic was of a 64 verison that you have

The only way is to find out under 'about- Safari' and for people not to edit images.... :rolleyes:

[TMA]

Piccy for you.

[e2chris]

oh that looks so cool. I wish they released this crap to everyone.

anyway... looks sweet!

oh and if v64 slips into your email then send it to e2chris@mac.com hehe

sorry arn!

[King Cobra]

Nice update.

A few hours after I got Safari v.62, the site hosting it got slapped with a Cease and Desist straight from Apple. I wonder if the same will happen for SpyMac.

Well, SpyMac seems to be generating some happy campers all of a sudden. :cool:

[rugby]

Originally posted by e2chris
oh that looks so cool. I wish they released this crap to everyone.

anyway... looks sweet!

oh and if v64 slips into your email then send it to e2chris@mac.com hehe

sorry arn!

First point, requesting pirated software isn't bright.

Second point, requesting it be email to you is a bit dumber.

Third point, requesting it be emailed to YOUR MAC.COM email address is borderline Canadien.

:D

[Freg3000]

Even though it was wrong for the person to break their NDA; and even though it was wrong for that person to post it on the web; and even though its wrong that Spymac lets the link remain on their website-I still am glad to get it.

Even though it's wrong....:(

But new features are so cool!

[medea]

Originally posted by rugby
First point, requesting pirated software isn't bright.

Second point, requesting it be email to you is a bit dumber.

Third point, requesting it be emailed to YOUR MAC.COM email address is borderline Canadien.

:D
LOL, that is pretty funny, but I hope you were not trying to spell Canadian....

[rickvanr]

Originally posted by rugby
First point, requesting pirated software isn't bright.

Second point, requesting it be email to you is a bit dumber.

Third point, requesting it be emailed to YOUR MAC.COM email address is borderline Canadien.

:D

Canadien is the french spelling and as an english CANADIAN i find it offensive... you cant call Canadian's stupid either... Watch CNN and then rethink who you're calling stupid

[MorganX]

Originally posted by arn
Please no posts or requests of where to get Safari v64.

Does Apple not release interim builds for continuous feedback?

[iSmell]

Camino 0.7 is out. I still think it works better with more pages than Safari does. Maybe once Safari is out of beta, it will be my main browser, but until then I'm sticking with Chimeramino.

el camino
el el camino
the front looks like a car
the back looks like a truck
the front is where you drive
the back is where you
el camino
el el camino

[BeigeUser]

If they fix some of the javascript bugs and text encoding problems for Japanese language web pages, I will switch over. In the meantime, the only browser that can accurately render Japanese language web pages is the Explorer. Apple will want to fix this if they want to make Safari the default browser someday.

[ennerseed]

Via the images posted here I really think the tabs should be reversed.

By that I mean the paticular page you are visiting would be indented in, ie pushed with the mouse upon clicking (it would seem odd , the tab, coming toward you with your mouse action pushing down). It would also look attached to the page you are viewing vs attached to the tool bar, as it is now.

Doesn't that seem right?

[saabmp3]

Well v.64 is working out nicly compared to v.62, but there are still some bugs when trying to open links using keyboard commands into new tabs.

I guess this is why this is a beta browser. I really wish that apple would release tabs into the open tho, it would be great!

BEN

[Xero]

wow these are some nice tabs. the option to open all links that reside in a folder on your bookmarks bar, into seperate tabs is pretty cool. man, apple knows how to take a good idea a step further. :)

[TMA]

Originally posted by saabmp3
Well v.64 is working out nicly compared to v.62, but there are still some bugs when trying to open links using keyboard commands into new tabs.

I guess this is why this is a beta browser. I really wish that apple would release tabs into the open tho, it would be great!

BEN

I've not had any problems with opening new tabs using keystrokes, I mostly right click and open in new tab (now opens in background tab !!! :) ) which one is causing you problems?

[odenshaw]

Originally posted by rickvanr
Watch CNN and then rethink who you're calling stupid

hahaha
thats just great!!! i think i need to pee my pants

[mdeschenes]

Quote from rugby
Third point, requesting it be emailed to YOUR MAC.COM email address is borderline Canadien.

Really? How political of you. I visit these sites for information and advice about Mac related issues. I had no idea that Macrumors was a place for venting issues of cross-border relationships.

As to the Safari 6.4 issue. I have just downloaded the 6.2 version and I am very pleased with it. Being a "newbie" to Mac, I find using Safari so much easier than Explorer in every regard. To those who are developing this software - Keep up the good work!

Mike

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by rickvanr
Canadien is the french spelling and as an english CANADIAN i find it offensive... you cant call Canadian's stupid either... Watch CNN and then rethink who you're calling stupid

I'm sorry if there is something worse than the french it must be french canadians. I hear every year that Canada wants to become english as its language and every year the french canadians say never. Urg.
Don't call CNN stupid? Why are you saying this again. What are you opposed to war or something? CNN shows you Pro-War. Many americans are also anti-war...

Anyway SpyMac isn't stupid.. they pulled the link too. How about we all create a code word for 'gimme the latest safari build' And we all PM eachother for the word...
I think I'll give myself a pat on the back for that one. :rolleyes:

[tliptak]

Not much difference

[saabmp3]

TMA,

When a link is already supposed to open in a new window (coded on the page itself) then safari has problems opening it in a new tab while holding the command key (or the command + shift keys). It says in the info window at the bottom that it is going to open in a new tab, but it still doesn't.

BEN

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by tliptak
Not much difference

And now you notice there are about 50000 PM in your user cp box. Expect them all to want it.

I don't really care... oh wow I have the latest safari version, sure it might be better but... apple didn't post it. and arn is gonna flame me.

[jaykk]

This is becoming one of the best browser for any platform.
It seems snappier, great update.

Thanks KC for the spymac hint, i got there in time, a second later it was pulled :)

[tliptak]

Originally posted by MrMacman
And now you notice there are about 50000 PM in your user cp box. Expect them all to want it.

I don't really care... oh wow I have the latest safari version, sure it might be better but... apple didn't post it. and arn is gonna flame me.

No PM and I'm not going to give it to anyone anyway so no use asking

[sparkleytone]

much better rendering. mouseovers on tabs is a nice touch.

has anyone figured out how to disable link underlining?? apparently the hack to do it no longer works. :/

i hate underlined links.

[iJon]

is it just me or do i feel like apple are the ones releasing these builds. i mean come on think about it. they are getting free feedback on safari, without anyone having to jump on their ass. no one will go to apple saying safari .64 erased their whole computer because the person who used it technically didnt have it legally, although apple doest care.

iJon

[arn]

Originally posted by MorganX
Does Apple not release interim builds for continuous feedback?

no

[TMA]

Originally posted by iJon
is it just me or do i feel like apple are the ones releasing these builds. i mean come on think about it. they are getting free feedback on safari, without anyone having to jump on their ass. no one will go to apple saying safari .64 erased their whole computer because the person who used it technically didnt have it legally, although apple doest care.

iJon

Yep I get that distinct feeling too. The Dave Hyatt "Hypothetically Speaking" blog is a clue perhaps? oh... hold on Safari is doing something to /usr/.)@@ . . .> rm /user

[sparkleytone]

Originally posted by sparkleytone
much better rendering. mouseovers on tabs is a nice touch.

has anyone figured out how to disable link underlining?? apparently the hack to do it no longer works. :/

i hate underlined links.

fixed. apple seems to have removed the hover: declaration in the text decorations. if you have a modified html4.css, remove the line with the hover declaration. having it will give you text probs.

[liven2]

Ok I have Safari build v.64 but see no tab browsing or anything new.. AND yess it is a v.64 build so do not worry about that..Everyone else that got this build it seems to work fine but mine does not.. I have deleted and installed it 3 times now and still no go!.. No TABS Nothing.. Any suggestion why I can not get them to work!??... In fact it looks no different than the official Apple release version v.60

Any suggestions?.. HELP!!!

[iJon]

Originally posted by liven2
Ok I have Safari build v.64 but see no tab browsing or anything new.. AND yess it is a v.64 build so do not worry about that..Everyone else that got this build it seems to work fine but mine does not.. I have deleted and installed it 3 times now and still no go!.. No TABS Nothing.. Any suggestion why I can not get them to work!??... In fact it looks no different than the official Apple release version v.60

Any suggestions?.. HELP!!!
make sure you have the bsd subsystem installed, if you dont go find it in your startup disk, then go download safari enhancer. tell to open the debug menu. then open safari and go to the debug menu and tell it you want tabs.

iJon

[wHo_tHe]

Seems to me the tab UI is upside down; that the tab should be "sticking up" from the main content window, not "hanging down" from the bookmarks bar or rest of the interface. Or possibly least invert the active/inactive looks; in the examples that were posted, I feel the three "sunken tabs" associate more with the main window, since the shaded area runs the length of the window just above the actual content, rather than the light area, which, as I mentioned, abuts the rest of the UI, not the browser content.

[Ocelot]

I am unsure how a leaked beta can be considered piracy. For example, if you were to buy a newspaper a few hours before it was *officially released by the publisher* is that piracy? No.

A leaked Safari build is simply a broken contract between an employee, a tester, etc.

So I say download away, don't be afraid- last time I checked consumers still have some rights.

...and no I don't have a copy of Safari v64 but as soon as I do- I'll let ya know

:)

-Ry

[mac15]

I have recently switched over to camino , since I realised how much I missed it kicking ass.

[iJon]

Originally posted by Ocelot
I am unsure how a leaked beta can be considered piracy. For example, if you were to buy a newspaper a few hours before it was *officially released by the publisher* is that piracy? No.

A leaked Safari build is simply a broken contract between an employee, a tester, etc.

So I say download away, don't be afraid- last time I checked consumers still have some rights.

...and no I don't have a copy of Safari v64 but as soon as I do- I'll let ya know

:)

-Ry
you do make a stong point in my opinion. iwas reading the disclaimer for this build and i didnt find anything saying the average user may not use this. i did find this funny. check this out.

"THE APPLE SOFTWARE IS NOT INTENDED FOR USE IN THE OPERATION OF NUCLEAR FACILITIES, AIRCRAFT NAVIGATION OR COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS, AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL SYSTEMS, LIFE SUPPORT MACHINES OR OTHER EQUIPMENT IN WHICH THE FAILURE OF THE APPLE SOFTWARE COULD LEAD TO DEATH, PERSONAL INJURY, OR SEVERE PHYSICAL OR ENVIRONMENTAL DAMAGE."

Please guys, you all mean a lot to me I dont want any of you to die from using Safari, so please use Internet Explorer for the time being. this gives "iLife" a whole new meaning. now introducing iLife, apples consumer life support system, powered by unix so you dont die.

iJon

[arn]

Originally posted by Ocelot
I am unsure how a leaked beta can be considered piracy. For example, if you were to buy a newspaper a few hours before it was *officially released by the publisher* is that piracy? No.

Sigh... not to open this debate up.

It's not a question of "harm"... it's a question of ownership.

What if you spread around a copy of a early-draft of a newspaper story... even a story that was going to be given away in the end. Does that make it right? Debatable. Does that make it legal? No.

Is spreading a beta of an Apple free-ware app "wrong" - not by most people's reasoning.

Is it illegal? Yes.

arn

[Awimoway]

Receiving stolen goods is a crime, right?

Being a felon feels like... nothing. Hmph.

(Misdemeanor?)

[jgracia]

spread software is good... especially when is a beta...
The feed back is great!

[boobers]

is better.
Safari looks like a stereo system from the 70's..brush metal is dull and i'm sick of it..(yes i know about metalifizer or whateverskis) i think i'm going to switch back to camino...better rendering, tabbed browsing, seems faster also.
I tried to install Opera but it just crashes..i wanted to try the Browser zoom.

Although i recommend to anyone to have at least 3 browsers on your system of different code bases, i have Camino, Safari and internet Exploder in use.. soo i have gecko, konq, and M$ skunk code.

[Ocelot]

I am not sure how US law works- so perhaps Macrumors would be liable for giving a link that redistributes ANY version of Safari, official or not.

But perhaps it may fall solely on the head of the person who is hosting the file on their server.

There are no laws protecting release dates as far as I know (minus contracts), but there are laws for redistribution of copyrighted goods.

I guess one question is-- do you own software once you download it, or do you merely own a license?

Of course software companies say you own a license, but who knows- perhaps it could be argued [in a court] that you own what is on your computer (for example you use a program to hack into the bank and steal money... If it's not your software would the company that sold you the license be considered negligent? akin to a guy borrowing your car and running over his wife...)

I think it is something Macrumors should check out- allowing people to put links to pre-release software is kinda sneaky -but so is the whole premise to a rumor site.

-Ry

[arn]

Originally posted by Ocelot
There are no laws protecting release dates as far as I know (minus contracts), but there are laws for redistribution of copyrighted goods.

I guess one question is-- do you own software once you download it, or do you merely own a license?


Well, that may be a different issue. Copyright is not revoked when someone is sold a copy of a piece of work. If I buy a book... or even an eBook, it doesn't mean that the contents are no longer copyrighted.

What about books? Even if you say you own the "book", you don't have the right to copy it and distribute it... right?

arn

[Awimoway]

Originally posted by arn
Well, that may be a different issue. Copyright is not revoked when someone is sold a copy of a piece of work. If I buy a book... or even an eBook, it doesn't mean that the contents are no longer copyrighted.

What about books? Even if you say you own the "book", you don't have the right to copy it and distribute it... right?

arn

No, but you may own a copy of said book. You just don't have a copyright to it. I understand that copying the book without copyright is illegal and that distributing the copy is illegal. But if I happen to possess such an illegal copy, am I guilty of any crime? This seems fuzzier to me.

Frankly, this is just one more example of why digital content and the law do not mix very well. We are compelled to resort to analogies that never hold up very well and mislead as much or more as they illuminate.

[Xerov]

Originally posted by rugby
First point, requesting pirated software isn't bright.

Second point, requesting it be email to you is a bit dumber.

Third point, requesting it be emailed to YOUR MAC.COM email address is borderline Canadien.

:D


Funniest thing ive heard all day...I really did LOL...Thank you that.

[voicegy]

I don't see why arn should have to get into long drawn out discussions regarding what should be just common sense. It's a pain for Apple to cruise sites to catch unauthorized copies of beta test software. We shouldn't engage in it either. For me, I'm quite happy to let the beta testers do their thing, find the problems, and eventually allow it to come out in an OFFICIAL update release where 99% of the crap has been weeded out and I end up with a more stable, worthy product.

I engaged in a download from this site earlier (previous beta relase of Safari) and I got the debug menu to appear and played with the tabs for about an hour, then I chucked it all when I realized that I probably shouldn't have done that when the links started disappearing. I honestly thought I was downloading something that was "ok" to do so due to the courtesy of a fellow member, but since then I've learned to just respect the beta testers and allow the process to take its course.

I'm sure my patience will be rewarded. (But I DO understand the desire to get ahold of such things);)

[cnladd]

First off, Beta v64 is much better than v62 so far.

Next up, the legality of this. Sorry for the length of this, but this should help those folks wondering if distributing, downloading, or using this is illegal (in short: yes, no, no.)

If anyone signed an NDA with Apple before receiving this software they've broken their contract by distributing it. Now, what about for the rest of us? Nothing. Plain and simple. What about sites distributing it? Same thing. This isn't a copyright issue. Apple owns the copyright, plain and simple. This is a licensing issue. Take a look at the license for this software.

1. This license states that this is a public beta. It is pre-release software, time-limited, and for evaluation purposes only.

2. You can download and use the software for evaluation during the term of the license.

3. The term starts the moment you download the software and ends on either June 30, 2003 or when a final version is released, whichever comes first.

Other than the usual disclaimers (LGPL, warranty and liability disclaimers, controlling law, etc.) that's it. Nothing else. This may not have been intended to leak to the public, but it's availability to the public can't be fully controlled. In short, you can't get in trouble for downloading and using this beta.

For distributors, that's another matter. Anyone with a relationship with Apple, be it vendor, distributor, beta tester, developer, etc. walks a fine line when making this available to others. Not because of the language in Safari's license, but because of potential language in whatever other agreements you may have signed with Apple.

And, of course, since Apple owns the copyright, they can control distribution. The license grants you the right (not explicitly, but implicitly via the language) to download and use the software. The license grants you the right to make one backup copy only. It does not grant you the right to share it with others. So yes, Apple can legally stop a site from making this available to others. And, just as they do with their other apps (such as iPhoto, iTunes, etc.) that are free, they enforce that right -- you can't find those anywhere else other than Apple's site.

The only times you can't use this software legally is either: after June 30, 2003; after Apple releases the final build; or if Apple notifies you in writing that it is directly revoking the license agreement with you.

So, in the end, if you find yourself with access to Safari, go ahead and grab it without fear.

[cnladd]

This won't be as long as my last one, I promise. :-)

With all the talk about tabs (which have been greatly refined between v62 and v64), I haven't seen anyone talking about something that's a bit less visible, but just as (if not more) important.

v64 introduces two new items on the "Debug" menu: "AutoComplete Forms with Past Data" and "AutoComplete Forms with Address Book".

Also, there's a bit of extra help in the "Debug" menu in an item labeled "Keyboard and Mouse Shortcuts". Selecting that opens up a new browser window pointing to file:///Applications/Safari.app/Contents/Resources/English.lproj/Shortcuts.html (included in the hopes that it may work for folks who aren't using v64 yet...) This file seems to list all of the shortcuts available for users. Not that big a deal, unless you make a LOT of use of keyboard shortcuts when browsing and are looking for more to save time and keystrokes.

[Wonder Boy]

I care more about the auto-fill then I do about the tabs. Looks like I'm in the minorty, though.

[From Win to Mac]

Hey Rugby, how about learning to spell Canadian properly ?

Marc K

[cnladd]

Originally posted by From Win to Mac
Hey Rugby, how about learning to spell Canadian properly ?

Marc K

He did. As mentioned in a previous post, that's the French spelling.

[Dale Sorel]

Originally posted by TMA
On the minus side i'm experiencing alot of sites with green text where it should be black :( A very strange bug.

Go in to Preferences and turn off the html4.css stylesheet. If you have Safari Enhancer you will have to turn on underline links.

[Sedulous]

v64 seems pretty good. What are some of the other items under the debug menu for?

[alset]

I'm still not impressed.

Dan

[shadowfax]

How come Camino 0.7 didn't make the news here?

Camino is the coolest mac browser, if now with the WORST name ever. compromise, compromise.Originally posted by übergeek
i'm a really stupid teenage girl. things you never thought you'd see but feel so much :p :p ;)

[melchior]

safari v64 provides everything i need in a browser. while chimera had a better name, camino does not.

safari v64, with a milk them is almost perfect and i have now officially switched. the only thing missing is when you click a link in say mail, it opens in a new window instead of a new tab. this is bliss. opening folders in tabs. opening tab in background. ahhhh, david hyatt is doing a good job.

[boskie]

i like that they've added the option to open a folder of bookmarks in a nested window.

If only by defualt it would open in a new window, this is the second time i've tried writing this post - lucky i'm not lazy.

Oh wait yes i a



Just had i thought about another feature i would like (i know its the wrong place for this, but hey if the shoe fits give it to somebody who needs it):

I would like to browse bookmarks in the dock such as with chimera/camino...

have it include the above and thats all i need from safari - apart from gaurding me from the Lions and Tigers and Bears which fill the Void Which Binds

[MetallicPenguin]

I know a perfect place to get the safari things

[backspinner]

Hurray! There is now a throbber in the tab showing that it's busy. That's what I was missing in the main window.

[Raiden]

Originally posted by iSmell

el camino
el el camino
the front looks like a car
the back looks like a truck
the front is where you drive
the back is where you
el camino
el el camino

Hahahaha good song!

Anyway, I cant wait to use the tabs features, because I have heard so much about them.

[DakotaGuy]

Ok I found the v.64 and wanted to play with it, but have decided just to continue to use the v.60 released version, because to me v.64 is slow. I went into the terminal and did the thing to add the debug menu, now I still have that dumb menu on my v.60. What do I type to hide that again? Thanks...

[cnladd]

Originally posted by Abercrombieboy
Ok I found the v.64 and wanted to play with it, but have decided just to continue to use the v.60 released version, because to me v.64 is slow. I went into the terminal and did the thing to add the debug menu, now I still have that dumb menu on my v.60. What do I type to hide that again? Thanks...

defaults write com.apple.safari IncludeDebugMenu 0

[MarkCollette]

Originally posted by rugby
First point, requesting pirated software isn't bright.

Second point, requesting it be email to you is a bit dumber.

Third point, requesting it be emailed to YOUR MAC.COM email address is borderline Canadien.

:D

Isn't it opensource? How can that be pirating?
Also, why make fun of Quebecois, when their girls are so pretty? It's like biting the hand that scratches your back ;)

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by MarkCollette
Isn't it opensource? How can that be pirating?
Also, why make fun of Quebecois, when their girls are so pretty? It's like biting the hand that scratches your back ;)

Safari is not opensource. Also Apple provides select betas for free to the public. If they don't officially release it to the public then it isn't legal for distribution under the NDA aggreement that Apple has with the only people that can get ahold of it legally.

[davy the bunny]

dang it and I just got v.62, now it's gonna take me another while to get my hands on this one. I hate having to use P2P over dial-up.

[Doctor Q]

I was quite impressed with David Hyatt's comments on tab design. No, I don't agree with some of the design choices. But he understands the issues and tradeoffs and he made decisions based on experience and clear thinking. As a program designer, I really admire that type of work. And good designers who can also explain/defend their design so well are hard to find.

[Tenacious B]

I wish they had fixed the problem where closing the tabs shrinks the window the width of the tab bar. I would send a comment with the bug button, but I don't want legal hassles.

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by ennerseed
Via the images posted here I really think the tabs should be reversed.

By that I mean the paticular page you are visiting would be indented in, ie pushed with the mouse upon clicking (it would seem odd , the tab, coming toward you with your mouse action pushing down). It would also look attached to the page you are viewing vs attached to the tool bar, as it is now.

Doesn't that seem right?

Well, sure, except that it completely defies all known UI human interface guidelines.

I mean, you "push" on a window to make it come "up", too, and i don't think that that is a broken concept at all. I think the thing that is broken is the equating of a mouse "click" to physically "pushing" on something. A mouse "click" is a "selection", not a "push".

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by liven2
Ok I have Safari build v.64 but see no tab browsing or anything new.. AND yess it is a v.64 build so do not worry about that..Everyone else that got this build it seems to work fine but mine does not.. I have deleted and installed it 3 times now and still no go!.. No TABS Nothing.. Any suggestion why I can not get them to work!??... In fact it looks no different than the official Apple release version v.60

Any suggestions?.. HELP!!!

To get tabs you need to turn on the hidden Debug menu (look to the MacRumors 0.62 beta discussion for how to do this). Then, you need to click on the Debug menu and select "Tabbed Browsing" ... THEN, you need to open a window in a new tab before you'll see the tab bar, using keyboard shortcuts or right-clicking on a link and selecting "Open in New Tab".

IMHO, both v0.62 and from what I hear 0.64 are too buggy for general consumption. Tabbed browsing is great, but I'm back to "vanilla" 0.60 for browsing as 0.62 had too many display defects. Which, of course, is why Apple hasn't released 0.62 or 0.64 ... they aren't ready yet, and the paradigm hasn't yet completely solidified (a lot of Mozilla tabbing features aren't in there yet).

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by wHo_tHe
Seems to me the tab UI is upside down; that the tab should be "sticking up" from the main content window, not "hanging down" from the bookmarks bar or rest of the interface. Or possibly least invert the active/inactive looks; in the examples that were posted, I feel the three "sunken tabs" associate more with the main window, since the shaded area runs the length of the window just above the actual content, rather than the light area, which, as I mentioned, abuts the rest of the UI, not the browser content.

As has been discussed before, the tabs relate not only to the content area but (less obviously) to the controls on the top of the page. IMHO, there are two HIG-compliant locations for the Tab Bar: just below the window's title bar (ie, above the forward/back/address bar) facing down, or at the bottom above the status bar facing up. You would also be able to get by with having the tabs run on the left or right of the window (past the scroll bar), as one would see in the pioneer of tabbed documents, Quattro Pro's spreadsheet program from the early '90's. From a pure HIG perspective, the tabs as seen in Mozilla et al are just plain wrong, and Safari is just perpetuating their mistake. On the other hand, that's where people "expect" tabs to be (the people that have used tabs before now at least, which is really a minority of future users), and I suspect that's where Apple is coming from.

Personally, I'd love to see Apple bring something original to the tabbed browsing metaphor. I'm not overly impressed, so far, with Safari's implementation. On the other hand, there is a reason that 0.62 and 0.64 are not public betas, and maybe Apple is thinking along the same lines (not wanting to just replicate someone else's somewhat broken hack of a design).

[Dunepilot]

enjoying tabbed browsing!

nice feature, and v64 seems to be quite a bit quicker too!

[bigjohn]

Camino 0.7 is the best - nice and speedy, everyone get this fine piece from work from the people that brought you Chimera™. The only way Camino will ever be the ultimate is to put in bookmark separators.

[cnladd]

Originally posted by MacBandit
Safari is not opensource. Also Apple provides select betas for free to the public. If they don't officially release it to the public then it isn't legal for distribution under the NDA aggreement that Apple has with the only people that can get ahold of it legally.

Please see my earlier post. Part of what you said was correct -- it isn't legal for distribution under the NDA. The last part, though ("the only people that can get ahold of it legally") is incorrect and misleading. If you can find a copy of Safari v64 (or any other version, for that matter), then it is perfectly legal for you to download it and use it.

For example, I'm not allowed to offer up Safari v64 for distribution from my site (http://www.laddonline.com). If, for some reason, you happen to find it on my site, it is perfectly legal for you to download it and use it. The only time that it would be illegal for you to use it is if Apple specifically revokes your license to use it.

Also, let's all stop using the terms "legal" and "illegal", because they're not completely correct in this context. We're talking about a licensing agreement with a corporation here, folks. It can be enforced through the courts if determined to be valid but is not, in and of itself, a law.

Finally, Safari in and of itself is not open source, though it is based upon open source code -- namely, the rendering engine -- which is bundled with the browser.

[MetallicPenguin]

how do you get the autocomplete to work?

thanks

[MetallicPenguin]

oh..I figured it out nevermind.

[PieMac]

When I open a new tab or window the text will vary greatly in size. Sometimes it's normal size and other times it's huge. It just does this arbitrarily in both v62 and the latest v64. I was hoping that maybe the bug would be corrected in the latest version, but not to be....had to uninstall again *sigh*.

[MetallicPenguin]

In case I'm just missing something I think I found out that you don't have to have the debug menu, activate the debug menu, then open safari, insert the code to make the menu go away (while safari is open), then restart safari

[MarkCollette]

Originally posted by MrMacman
I'm sorry if there is something worse than the french it must be french canadians. I hear every year that Canada wants to become english as its language and every year the french canadians say never. Urg.
Don't call CNN stupid? Why are you saying this again. What are you opposed to war or something? CNN shows you Pro-War. Many americans are also anti-war...

Anyway SpyMac isn't stupid.. they pulled the link too. How about we all create a code word for 'gimme the latest safari build' And we all PM eachother for the word...
I think I'll give myself a pat on the back for that one. :rolleyes:

First of all, forget all of the BS you've been taught, in your village, about France. It shows your ignorance too well. No, right now you're thinking about explaining to me how you actually know what you're talking about, but trust me, you're wrong. See, now you're thinking about how I'm not providing proof for my statements, but my proof is in the public history, which they simply never taught you in your village. Read a book.

Secondly, do not assume you, or anyone in your media knows anything about issues of Quebec or Canada. You don't, so just move along to some other topic. I don't care that you may think you do.

Thirdly, your media is useless, and filters most topics. Try alternative media or any foreign media. You will then understand why we say that CNN is BS. Whether you are for or against war, CNN is useless.

[arn]

please... no more off-topic discussion. Future posts in this thread that are off topic or have off-topic portions will be deleted.

arn

[foofan]

i tried v64 and have already trashed it. it worked good for a little while , then everything went nuts. There is a reason why the public can't download it yet. this is the last time I try a version before it is released to the public.

[MacMumm]

I was wondering if having a separate download window open in web browsers bothers anybody but myself?

Since Apple has gone with the "drawers" on things such as Mail, why don't they add something like that to Safari? Instead of having a separate window hiding behind your browser, or moving your browswer window open, wouldn't it be nice to have a mailboxes style drawer that would just pop in and out on the side of your browswer window?

Just my 2 cents. :)

[pyrotoaster]

I'm running v64 (you can get it off Limewire), and I like it. The tabs do so much more than those in other apps.

I really like what I see here, and I haven't run into any problems (yet...).

[void]

i have v64, but how do I make a tab?

[pyrotoaster]

How to make tabs in Safari v62 and v64:
1. Close Safari
2. Open Terminal
3. Type: defaults write com.apple.Safari IncludeDebugMenu 1 and hit Return
4. Terminal should not display any message after doing this
5. Close Terminal and open Safari
6. A menu called "Debug" will now be available, you can activate tabbed browsing through there

You can now open new tabs with command-T, and open links in tabs with command-click.

[cnladd]

Originally posted by foofan
i tried v64 and have already trashed it. it worked good for a little while , then everything went nuts. There is a reason why the public can't download it yet. this is the last time I try a version before it is released to the public.

Umm, whether it was released to the public or not doesn't matter. There's a reason that it's considered beta software. Anyone downloading and using this version (or any other pre-release version of this program, even if publicly released by Apple) could have serious consequences. Anyone with this kind of adverse reaction to an issue shouldn't have installed beta software on the first place.

With that said, I've been running each of the development (non-public) betas as they've been released and I haven't encountered a single problem yet. As always with this sort of thing, YMMV.

[Awimoway]

We all understand that it's a beta, thank you very much.

As for my mileage, I think v62 was more stable than v64. Page loading hangs all too often. I kept my copy of v62 handy, and I am going back to it. I heard that a public beta may be released next week. Here's to hoping it's stabler than v64.

[irobot75]

I just hooked my brand new imac 1 ghz up to the internet and downloaded safari from apple,
very fast!

I just purchased my imac today and I'm in love!


I've waited 1 year for this day!

[MetallicPenguin]

fun...

(admin delete this post if you want to it won't let me)

[Tariq]

Originally posted by PieMac
When I open a new tab or window the text will vary greatly in size. Sometimes it's normal size and other times it's huge. It just does this arbitrarily in both v62 and the latest v64. I was hoping that maybe the bug would be corrected in the latest version, but not to be....had to uninstall again *sigh*.

Delete the Preferences for Safari. I had the exact same thing happen and this fixed it.

[PieMac]

Great I'll give it a go...do you delete the preferences before you install v64 or after or does it matter?

[GPTurismo]

First, I agree with arn about the piracy. b60 is a publically licensed beta, b64 is not, and is a privately held code source. Use at your own risk.

As for Safari b64, I am using it alot. I forgot how much I love tabs.

Just a pic of it without the brush metal look,

http://www.mindspring.com/~c.c.norris/0000/safari_64.jpg

Camino is a good bit faster on my Dual 1250 and my Dual 800. I still use safari more simply because I find the interface elegant, beautiful and much more user friendly. I think that's what the browser wars that seem to be coming up around the corner will be about.

GPT

[GPTurismo]

BTW, since I skipped over most of the PIRACY bs, I didn't notice if anyone mention that you have to go into the Debug menu to enable tabbing and I haven't had any issues with it without deleting the preferences.

[edesignuk]

Originally posted by GPTurismo
Just a pic of it without the brush metal look,

How do u remove the brushed metal look? Thanks.

[Doctor Q]

Originally posted by irobot75
I just purchased my imac today and I'm in love! I've waited 1 year for this day!I see that this was your first post, irobot75, so welcome to MacRumors and congratulations on your new iMac. You posted at 2am Pacific Time, which makes me curious what time zone you are in.

If you are new to Macs (or even if you are not), you can get advice and help here. Just post a question in the "Mac Help/Questions and Tips" forum.

Here's a tip to start with: If Safari is your main web browser, but you have trouble with a web site (e.g., an e-commerce site), try another browser. For example, some web sites are designed for and only tested with Internet Explorer. No single web browser is best for all sites.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by edesignuk
How do u remove the brushed metal look? Thanks.

Also when you remove the burshed metal will the button bar become transparent when the window is in the background?

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by GPTurismo
BTW, since I skipped over most of the PIRACY bs,

This is TROLL flame bate if I ever saw it.

[cnladd]

Originally posted by Awimoway
[B]We all understand that it's a beta, thank you very much.

Most of us do. I think Apple made a big mistake, though, releasing the public beta on SUPP. Both here and on other forums I've heard a ton of people complaining -- not just about how buggy Safari is, but about how Apple shouldn't release software before it's ready. They're surprised when people point out that it's beta.

I wasn't trying to be disparaging or condescending in my previous post -- if I came across that way, I'm sorry. I'm just trying to be helpful as well and, since I'm new to these boards (and Macs in general) I'm still learning my own way. :-)

[chmorley]

1) I downloaded v64 from 2 different places, and neither one worked. At first it simply crashed on startup (about 5 times in a row). After that I would double-click on it and it would open iMovie. I restarted, booting from my Norton Systemworks CD, and it found the 3 major errors it finds when things go wrong (VHB, B-tree, etc.). It fixed them. I rebooted. Safari crashed on startup. V62 still works just fine.

Any ideas?

2) The plural of Canadian is "Canadians", not "Canadian's". Funny when someone is trying to point out how stupid someone else is and they can't even pluralize a simple word.

Thank's in Advance's,
Chris

[iJon]

Originally posted by chmorley
1) I downloaded v64 from 2 different places, and neither one worked. At first it simply crashed on startup (about 5 times in a row). After that I would double-click on it and it would open iMovie. I restarted, booting from my Norton Systemworks CD, and it found the 3 major errors it finds when things go wrong (VHB, B-tree, etc.). It fixed them. I rebooted. Safari crashed on startup. V62 still works just fine.

Any ideas?

2) The plural of Canadian is "Canadians", not "Canadian's". Funny when someone is trying to point out how stupid someone else is and they can't even pluralize a simple word.

Thank's in Advance's,
Chris
i have no idea. these are the same reasons why apple has this in beta mode. i havent expreienced those problems. sorry.

iJon

[mrodgers79]

Subject about says it all... had v62, now have v64... have turned on the feature in the debug menu, but am having no success in the autocomplete forms feature actually working... any details would be appreciated

[chmorley]

Originally posted by iJon
i have no idea. these are the same reasons why apple has this in beta mode. i havent expreienced those problems. sorry.

iJon What made you want to reply?

Chris

[ennerseed]

Originally posted by cnladd
Most of us do. I think Apple made a big mistake, though, releasing the public beta on SUPP. Both here and on other forums I've heard a ton of people complaining -- not just about how buggy Safari is, but about how Apple shouldn't release software before it's ready. They're surprised when people point out that it's beta.

I wasn't trying to be disparaging or condescending in my previous post -- if I came across that way, I'm sorry. I'm just trying to be helpful as well and, since I'm new to these boards (and Macs in general) I'm still learning my own way. :-)

I think the idea of the beta was to get feedback on websites so as they were finishing the "Tabs, Auto-Fill, etc" they could get all the "HTML, CSS, etc" worked out.
Remember it was said at the expo that there was no way they could go and check out all the web to test it so you, and I, are doing that for them.

And thats why they are not releasing interim betas... the second v60 was released because of the deleted home directory bug. You are not ment to be testing the tabs etc you are ment to be testing the way it handles web code. Didn'y you (you being a general term) notice that the report bugs does not have any Feedback Types, i.e. Design / Ease of Use, Efficiency, ect included in it, it is all about the web page you are having a problem with.

[Tariq]

Originally posted by PieMac
Great I'll give it a go...do you delete the preferences before you install v64 or after or does it matter?

Just make sure Safari is not running and then delete the Prefs. I did not have to re-install.

For the guy who wants to get rid of that Gaudy Metal look, Download Safari enhancer from versiontracker. THat will give you an option to get rid of the metal look and also activate the debug menu to get the tabs(use the v62 of enhancer)

[PieMac]

So far, so good. The text display has only gone bonkers a couple of times (vs most the time) since I deleted the prefs. Thanks for the tip!

[Awimoway]

Originally posted by cnladd
Most of us do. I think Apple made a big mistake, though, releasing the public beta on SUPP. Both here and on other forums I've heard a ton of people complaining -- not just about how buggy Safari is, but about how Apple shouldn't release software before it's ready. They're surprised when people point out that it's beta.

Mostly I agree. But I like Safari's feature set--the google toolbar, the bookmark borowser, and the snapback button. I like its UI better than Camino (I don't understand what people have against brushed metal, and I think that it's the right metaphor for a browser).

My point being that if mostly/somewhat stable software is in existence, I would rather be able to use it now than have to wait another 6 mos. to a year for the official release. I felt the same way about Chimera when I used it. But you're right in pointing out that Apple is wrong to downplay the beta-ness of Safari.

Originally posted by cnladd
I wasn't trying to be disparaging or condescending in my previous post -- if I came across that way, I'm sorry. I'm just trying to be helpful as well and, since I'm new to these boards (and Macs in general) I'm still learning my own way. :-)

I was a little uncharacteristically snappish, I admit (and apologize for any offense). I've just read this comment so much on the Safari threads that I got tired of seeing it. People who want to should share their troubles with Safari, even if it is a beta. I'm fairly new to Macs and public betas myself.

[Tariq]

Originally posted by PieMac
So far, so good. The text display has only gone bonkers a couple of times (vs most the time) since I deleted the prefs. Thanks for the tip!

Your very Welcome. Also, a cool feature in the debug menu with tabs is the option to open tabs in the front - I'm not sure if this would affect text rendering or not but since enabling, I have not noticed any large text.

[MaxArturo]

Maybe... maybe not

[irobot75]

Doctor Q,

Thanks for the welcome. Yes, I am new to macs but I've been doing my homework here for about a year.

My four year old has my PC now, poor kid.

My wife and I want to use the mac for audio visual production and web design.

I'll never go back.

[mads]

it also has a slightly different user agent:

5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/62 (like Gecko) Safari/62

5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/64 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/64

Now they included KHTML...

[chmorley]

Originally posted by chmorley
1) I downloaded v64 from 2 different places, and neither one worked. At first it simply crashed on startup (about 5 times in a row). After that I would double-click on it and it would open iMovie. I restarted, booting from my Norton Systemworks CD, and it found the 3 major errors it finds when things go wrong (VHB, B-tree, etc.). It fixed them. I rebooted. Safari crashed on startup. V62 still works just fine.If anyone else has been having this problem. PithHelmet was/is the culprit. The new version (http://versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/moreinfo.fcgi?id=18158&db=macosx) fixes this issue.

Chris

[Traveler]

So,

I DL'd v64 but have thus far been unsuccessful in my attempts to activate the debugger menu. Both Safari Enhancer and manually typing commands into Terminal yield the following negative result:

"defaults: command not found" or "sh: defaults: command not found"

WTF. Has anybody else experienced similar difficulties? Does this indicate a larger problem with my OS? Should I be typing something else?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Traveler

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Traveler
So,

I DL'd v64 but have thus far been unsuccessful in my attempts to activate the debugger menu. Both Safari Enhancer and manually typing commands into Terminal yield the following negative result:

"defaults: command not found" or "sh: defaults: command not found"

WTF. Has anybody else experienced similar difficulties? Does this indicate a larger problem with my OS? Should I be typing something else?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Traveler

Sounds to me like when you installed OSX you did a custom install and chose not to insall the developer stuff. I have the same problem and will be reinstalling the system so I can have my terminal window goodness back.

[cnladd]

Originally posted by Traveler
So,

I DL'd v64 but have thus far been unsuccessful in my attempts to activate the debugger menu. Both Safari Enhancer and manually typing commands into Terminal yield the following negative result:

"defaults: command not found" or "sh: defaults: command not found"

WTF. Has anybody else experienced similar difficulties? Does this indicate a larger problem with my OS? Should I be typing something else?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Traveler


Not positive on what's wrong, but I've got two ideas. First, when you installed Mac OS X, did you make sure to install the BSD subsystem?

First, it could be a pathing issue. Try this out: /usr/bin/defaults write com.apple.safari IncludeDebugMenu 1. The difference here is that you're specifying the full path (/usr/bin/) for the defaults command. If that doesn't work then you may need to do a reinstall. Make sure you install the BSD Subsystem -- it's not necessary for normal system operation, but it enables additional advanced functionality.

You've got me really intrigued -- I'm going to look into this. If you figure it out first, let me know (via Private Message, if nothing else.) I always that the defaults system (and commands) were part of the core OS. Now I'm not sure. :) If someone else knows the answer for sure, let me know.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by cnladd
Not positive on what's wrong, but I've got two ideas. First, when you installed Mac OS X, did you make sure to install the BSD subsystem?

I am sure that that is there problem because I have the same problem. I am going to remedy it soon though.

[Traveler]

Macbandit and cnladd:

Thanks for the advice. You're dead on. I was running low on HD when I installed jaguar so I left out the BSD. It had completely escaped my mind.

I guess defaults is not a part of the core system OS.

Unfortunately, I don't think I will be doing a reinstall. I'm not actually a developer so it seems like an awful lot of effort just to preview a beta release of Safari (especially given all the software updates I have already piled on top of it). If only there were a way to augment the system software as opposed to wiping the slate and starting fresh...

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Traveler
Macbandit and cnladd:

Thanks for the advice. You're dead on. I was running low on HD when I installed jaguar so I left out the BSD. It had completely escaped my mind.

I guess defaults is not a part of the core system OS.

Unfortunately, I don't think I will be doing a reinstall. I'm not actually a developer so it seems like an awful lot of effort just to preview a beta release of Safari (especially given all the software updates I have already piled on top of it). If only there were a way to augment the system software as opposed to wiping the slate and starting fresh...

You can always do as I am going to do and that is a archive and install. It will archive you old system and copy over your preferences to the new one your installing. This is of course only if you have the hard drive space to do so. Also all the system updates you download using Software Update are saved in the hard drive/library/receipts folder. That way you don't have to download them again just run them to update your newly installed system.

[cnladd]

Originally posted by Traveler
Macbandit and cnladd:

Thanks for the advice. You're dead on. I was running low on HD when I installed jaguar so I left out the BSD. It had completely escaped my mind.

I guess defaults is not a part of the core system OS.

Unfortunately, I don't think I will be doing a reinstall. I'm not actually a developer so it seems like an awful lot of effort just to preview a beta release of Safari (especially given all the software updates I have already piled on top of it). If only there were a way to augment the system software as opposed to wiping the slate and starting fresh...

The BSD subsystem doesn't have anything to do with development, really -- the developer tools are something completely different (sorry Macbandit, that's why your first post confused me a bit....) While not necessary for regular system use, there are a fair number of tools, utilities, and regular applications that requires the presence of the BSD subsystem.

BSD stands for "Berkeley System Distribution," for the version of UNIX that Mac OS X is primarily based upon. The BSD subsystem is all of the command-line tools and utilities that help to make up BSD UNIX. It's a good thing to havve (if you've got space) and, IMHO, provides much of Mac OS X's power and flexibility.

[MacBoy88]

How do you turn on the Dedug Menu, in v64:confused:

[FredAkbar]

Originally posted by MacBoy88
How do you turn on the Dedug Menu, in v64:confused:

Guys...just read some of the thread...you'll see about 600 posts about how to turn on the debug menu.

Anyways...make sure Safari isn't running, open up a terminal window, and type:

defaults write com.apple.Safari IncludeDebugMenu 1

--Fred

[Awimoway]

Originally posted by FredAkbar
Guys...just read some of the thread...you'll see about 600 posts about how to turn on the debug menu.

Anyways...make sure Safari isn't running, open up a terminal window, and type:

defaults write com.apple.Safari IncludeDebugMenu 1

--Fred

Diplomatically put. I was tempted to say something much nastier, so I decided it would be better if I said nothing at all. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who reads ALL of a thread.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Awimoway
Diplomatically put. I was tempted to say something much nastier, so I decided it would be better if I said nothing at all. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who reads ALL of a thread.

I had the same feeling but I don't think it has to do with you and I and a few others choosing to read the whole thread as much as it is some people just can't read at all.

[Pedro Estarque]

Is it just me or does 64 fells much slower then the current one? It seems to take it some time before it actually starts loading the page.

[appleguru1]

So,

I DL'd v64 but have thus far been unsuccessful in my attempts to activate the debugger menu. Both Safari Enhancer and manually typing commands into Terminal yield the following negative result:

"defaults: command not found" or "sh: defaults: command not found"

WTF. Has anybody else experienced similar difficulties? Does this indicate a larger problem with my OS? Should I be typing something else?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Traveler

If you want to enable the safari debug menu without the BSD subsystem, open the com.apple.Safari.plist which is in ~/Library/Preferences (~ means you home folder) in a Text Editor (Like BBedit).

Anywhere between the <dict> and </dict> entries (After the <dict> entry near the top is fine), paste this text:

<key>IncludeDebugMenu</key>
<true/>


(Make sure its properly tabbed over like the rest of the <key> entries)

Alternativley, if you don't want the Debug menu, and you just want to use tabs or auto complete, enter any/all of the following (I fell they are self evident, and you don't need to enter these manually if you enable the debug menu)

<key>TabbedBrowsing</key>
<true/>

<key>FormAutoCompleteEnabled</key>
<true/>

<key>AddressBookAutoCompleteEnabled</key>
<true/>

[e2chris]

I think it is sad how many people dont "THINK" out there. How to turn on debug mode... come on... i have no sympathy for stupidity.

[forcelite]

just so yall know v67 is out

thats the newest as far as I know

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by forcelite
just so yall know v67 is out

thats the newest as far as I know

yes, it's been discussed on the forums, namely here. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?threadid=22767)
but thanks for trying to help. next time, put it in a search first ;)

[iTarzan]

Would someone mind IMing me, I would like to get my hands on the latest Safari leak :-)