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TyleRomeo
Mar 6, 2003, 11:25 PM
Anyone wanna start betting on dual G4 powerbooks.

the new G4 chips are supposed to run at 10W a piece, is it that impossible that apple would release dual G4 powerbooks but still maintain their 5 hour battery life?

I think apple will resprt to this tactic since Intel is about to roll out 2.6GHZ mobile chips. I mean the PoweMacs dual configurations looks a little better then their single counterparts.
What do you guys think?

I see it happening most likely early next year. but maybe sometime this fall.

Tyler

hugemullens
Mar 6, 2003, 11:32 PM
I don't think it will happen. Apple has got the heat issue down but not far enough. Maybe on the 17", but i dont even think then. By the time a dual g4 powerbook would be in the mix hopefully they will have the 970 in a working mobile chip and give us that instead.

NavyIntel007
Mar 6, 2003, 11:41 PM
Fat chance. Although they do say that the future hybrid handheld/phones will be dual processor. But no, Not on your powerbook. Thanks for coming out though.

ddtlm
Mar 7, 2003, 12:07 AM
Seems like a PPC-970 makes far more sense, seeing as how they are supposed to dissipate 18W (or something) at 1.2ghz, and be available late this year or early next year.

jefhatfield
Mar 7, 2003, 04:59 AM
a dual tibook/powerbook would definitely make the laptops fully function in the pro realm in terms of sheer computing power as they relate to their more robust desktop counterparts

but by the time the dual g4 is in a laptop, we will be screaming for the mobile 970:D

Chrisnorth
Mar 7, 2003, 10:12 AM
I would say that the chances of this happening are zero to nil.

TyleRomeo
Mar 7, 2003, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by Chrisnorth
I would say that the chances of this happening are zero to nil.

im curious why it's so hard to acomplish. if the new 970 runs at 18W and the new G4s run at 10W, put two of them together and you have 20W, which is probably less heat then the current 1GHZ 17' powerbook.

Personally, i'd like a dual 1GHZ powerbook in the fall over a 1.25 or 1.33 GHZ single chip one.

Tyler

FlamDrag
Mar 7, 2003, 11:28 AM
I'm not so sure it's a matter of "can't" as much as it is "won't" do it.

I think that if the 970 wasn't scheduled for another couple of years (maybe it's not...) and they'd pretty much maxed out the best processor they have THEN they'd go dual in the PB's.

But since it seems likely that they'll go to 1.25, 1.33, 1.42, 970v1 I wouldn't expect them to invest the resources in making a DP PB.

Although one thing to think about is: "What will the first 970 powerbooks look like?" Surely they'll update the case for them. You have to have some sort of announcement to the world that you have the newest and fastest PB. Same for the PM's of course.

utilizer
Mar 7, 2003, 11:29 AM
No duals in the portables, not with Motorola but maybe with IBM. Here's what I think will happen:
Come July, we'll see the laptops thrusted to 1.33 Ghz just like the current xServes but this will be the 7457 from Motorola, even though they say that they won't be shipping it until September.
That's perfect for Apple, seeing how they seem to enjoy people waiting for a product that isn't already being manufactured yet!

Let's take a look at this for a moment:
Jan. '03--17 in. PowerBook introed--Feb, Mar, Apr: Products shipped (so we hope, count your blessings!)
Jul. '03--17 in. 1.33 Ghz 7457 introed--Aug, Sept, Oct (so we hope, but count on November!)

Perfect timing for Apple! :D :p

jefhatfield
Mar 7, 2003, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by Chrisnorth
I would say that the chances of this happening are zero to nil.

does that mean you think the 970 will be in a laptop, or that we will chug along with single processor laptops while the desktops keep the dualie action to themselves

macphoria
Mar 7, 2003, 11:51 AM
It won't happen because of heat issue and power consumption.

Heat Issue:
People already complain about fan noises coming from recent PowerBooks. Even if power consumption went down with new chips, cooling TWO processors in even more cramped space is not going to be easy. Fans will come into play, which people despise.

Power Consumption:
Even if new chips consume less power, two will most certainly drain the battery at faster rate. Apple could perhaps come up with new type of battery that can support two processors. But if they were able to do that, I think they would rather go with 1 processor and double the usage time instead.

jefhatfield
Mar 7, 2003, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by macphoria
It won't happen because of heat issue and power consumption.

Heat Issue:
People already complain about fan noises coming from recent PowerBooks. Even if power consumption went down with new chips, cooling TWO processors in even more cramped space is not going to be easy. Fans will come into play, which people despise.

Power Consumption:
Even if new chips consume less power, two will most certainly drain the battery at faster rate. Apple could perhaps come up with new type of battery that can support two processors. But if they were able to do that, I think they would rather go with 1 processor and double the usage time instead.

but the second processor is not always being used

but that second processor could come in handy during high end stuff like photoshop

and if need be, have an option where you can turn off the second processor during battery use if you want and have it automatically default to dual processor use when it gets plugged into the ac adapter

macphoria
Mar 7, 2003, 01:26 PM
-----but the second processor is not always being used

-----but that second processor could come in handy
-----during high end stuff like photoshop

-----and if need be, have an option where you can turn
-----off the second processor during battery use if you
-----want and have it automatically default to dual
-----processor use when it gets plugged into the ac adapter

What you mentioned makes sense. But I still doubt Apple would allow that much customization of processors to users.

Sun Baked
Mar 7, 2003, 01:58 PM
Without a lot of the power management features of the G3s incorporated into the G4s and 970 -- it doesn't make much sense to incorporate duals into portables.

And it's not just the CPUs sucking power, it's all the support chips, circuits, and memory that's doubled in a dual configuration. It's a little more than just an extra 10 watts of power drain.

monkeydo_jb
Mar 7, 2003, 03:00 PM
Well my idea is a little out there, but nothing Apple couldn't handle.

They should make docking stations for the powerbook. Simple. However the docking station would contain a second processor.

This would allow you to keep your battery life, have more speed (only at your desk, though :( ) and keep the heat down.

It may be hard to accomplish, but at least it would satisfy some of you.


Just an idea......



-jeff


I guess a removable base would work, as well.

Chrisnorth
Mar 7, 2003, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by jefhatfield
does that mean you think the 970 will be in a laptop, or that we will chug along with single processor laptops while the desktops keep the dualie action to themselves

Apple is in an interesting position; they own an entire market niche. That is, they aren't just another PC player. Ultimately, this is both good and bad. They make the decisions on how much rope to use at any given time. They can take enough rope to hang themselves, or so little that they loose audience interest. I think that Apple is very good at apportioning just enough.

Building dual processor power books would be like taking too much rope. Their laptops are comparable to the best that the PC world has to offer and one of their advntages is long battery life. Multiprocessor architechture in a power book would negate this.

Another reason to doubt this is that with the latest Power Book introductions, the next units to concentrate on will either be the desktop line or new consumer devices like iPod. Apple must balance its resources wisely by developing new products in a balanced way, and the Power Macs and iMacs are in the greatest need of an overhaul at this time.

I think that the powerbooks will langush now until the 970 is introduced.

Beyond all of that, I just have a gut feeling that without a major change in processor technology, dual processor powerbooks just won't happen.

KingArthur
Mar 8, 2003, 07:17 AM
Originally posted by monkeydo_jb
Well my idea is a little out there, but nothing Apple couldn't handle.

They should make docking stations for the powerbook. Simple. However the docking station would contain a second processor.

This would allow you to keep your battery life, have more speed (only at your desk, though :( ) and keep the heat down.


Does this remind anyone else of a similar Apple product? I think they called that the DUO?! My friend had one;) Anyway, I don't think that Apple will resort back to that for quite a while unless the PC market started doing that. Most people would rather just get a second computer for that that has more computing power and expandability.

Also, battery life. Not only are you talking about twice the processors draining from it, but you are also talking about twice the power being drained by FANS!

Also, Utilizer, I think that your time frame makes good sense. At least you are not one of those people who is expecting the 970 in a laptop this year;) :D Sorry, just had to bring up old flames (j/k).

utilizer
Mar 9, 2003, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by KingArthur


Also, Utilizer, I think that your time frame makes good sense. At least you are not one of those people who is expecting the 970 in a laptop this year;) :D Sorry, just had to bring up old flames (j/k).

Yeah, I figure it's good to be pessimistic about the 970 chances of getting into an Apple machine this year. Personally, I think IBM will want to have any of their supplies available for their own workstations (the Blades) and not have to worry about Apple until early next year.
Believe me, I've learned about being disappointed. I thought the G5s would be here in the summer MWNY of 2001 (yep, that one with the DVD software being the star of the show!)

macphoria
Mar 9, 2003, 08:00 PM
IBM 970 processor should become available in at least Power Macs within this year. If G5/970 does not materialize this year, Apple would be making monumental mistake.

Over Achiever
Mar 10, 2003, 08:19 AM
"This is the year of the laptop"

Ok, so it may have been hype, but think about it...it makes some sense. I expect the 970 to hit laptops shortly after the desktops get them. I'd be surprised if they didn't.

As for duals...when Apple switches to the 970, I expect them to go away from duals, as it isn't really needed anymore to compete w/ the PC market.

Rustus Maximus
Mar 11, 2003, 12:14 PM
I think we'll see 970 desktop systems intro'd at MWNY...and the laptop 970's will get intro'd shortly after IBM goes to the .09 micron process for the 970.

The PowerBook will go 970 since it falls into the professional user category. I just can't see the sense in a dualie PB, not with the 970 right around the corner.

Rustus

jefhatfield
Mar 11, 2003, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by Rustus Maximus
I think we'll see 970 desktop systems intro'd at MWNY...and the laptop 970's will get intro'd shortly after IBM goes to the .09 micron process for the 970.

The PowerBook will go 970 since it falls into the professional user category. I just can't see the sense in a dualie PB, not with the 970 right around the corner.

Rustus

i hope you are right

i don't see why our desktop brethern/sisteren ;) have to be the only ones with access to dual G4s

...it's ok if it only works in dual mode plugged in...some of us need the laptop if we travel, go to class, or live in a small living space

Catfish_Man
Mar 11, 2003, 07:24 PM
A dual 1GHz 7457 would probably use less power than a 1GHz 7455 (Moto's pages seem to indicate that a 1GHz 7455 is around 30 watts, while a 1GHz 7457 is about 10). Also, the 7457 is a smaller chip. I think duals in the 17" is quite reasonable, although probably not in the 15" and definitely not in the 12" (I think the 12" will get L3 cache when the 7457 comes out). It also might be practical to do a single 867MHz 7447 iBook.

jefhatfield
Mar 11, 2003, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by Catfish_Man
A dual 1GHz 7457 would probably use less power than a 1GHz 7455 (Moto's pages seem to indicate that a 1GHz 7455 is around 30 watts, while a 1GHz 7457 is about 10). Also, the 7457 is a smaller chip. I think duals in the 17" is quite reasonable, although probably not in the 15" and definitely not in the 12" (I think the 12" will get L3 cache when the 7457 comes out). It also might be practical to do a single 867MHz 7447 iBook.

i think mac based graphics pros can live with a dualie in the 17" powerbook:D

ddtlm
Mar 11, 2003, 08:28 PM
Catfish_Man:

Also, the 7457 is a smaller chip.
No, it is pin-compatible and therefore will take the same space.

I think duals in the 17" is quite reasonable, although probably not in the 15" and definitely not in the 12"
Yeah they could do duals but it would be stupid with the PPC-970 looming. Compared to 2 G4's, a PPC-970 would probably be cheaper and certainly be faster for most tasks, while consuming less power.

daniel77
Mar 12, 2003, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by TyleRomeo
blah blah blah

Tyler


For gosh sakes one processor in the 12'' powerbook is enoguh to make the wrist areas almost too hot to touch after a few hours. add another one, and you could cook 2 kinds of eggs and bacon. :cool: