Iranian Soldiers Assist Hezbollah in Southern Lebanon

[MACDRIVE]

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=189178348&p=y89y79x54

Israel accuses Iranian guards of helping Hezbollah
15/07/2006 - 18:07:40

Hezbollah guerrillas who are bombarding Israel with missiles are being helped by members of Iran’s revolutionary guards, Israel said tonight.

Israel also warned the terror group has Iranian missiles that could hit Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, major Israeli cities that sit up to 124 miles from the Lebanese border.

In almost four days of fighting, Hezbollah has fired longer range rockets that have hit Tiberias – a resort city on the Sea of Galilee, where tradition says Jesus performed some of his best-known miracles – and Israel’s third-largest city, Haifa, both about 25 miles from the border.

In total, Hezbollah has fired more than 350 rockets at Israel since fighting erupted on Wednesday, the army said. But Hezbollah has so far refrained from using the approximately 20 longer-range rockets it has at its disposal, a move that would likely broaden the scope of fighting to include Syria, and possibly even Iran.

“They might attack Tel Aviv with their long-range rockets. This is in the (military’s) assessment,” a senior Israeli intelligence said on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the information. It is unclear why Hezbollah had not yet used the longer-range rockets, he said.

In a meeting of police, rescue and municipal officials in Tel Aviv on Friday, it was decided to increase the readiness of the rescue services due to the possibility that Hezbollah could attack the city, officials said. Ambulance drivers were instructed to be near their vehicles at all times, they added.

Israeli officials have repeatedly accused Syria and Iran of assisting Hezbollah and other militant groups, including Hamas. Military officials said Iranian troops were directly involved in an attack late Friday on an Israeli warship that killed four soldiers.

About 100 Iranian soldiers are in Lebanon and helped fire the Iranian-made, radar-guided C-802 missile at the ship that was cruising off the coast of Lebanon when it was hit, the official said. The troops involved in firing the missiles are from the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, the official added.

The missile has a range of approximately 100 kilometres, or 60 miles.

Another Hezbollah missile also hit and sank a nearby civilian merchant ship at around the same time, Twelve Egyptian sailors were on board the Cambodian merchant ship and were rescued from the water by other passing ships.

The current round of Hezbollah-Israeli fighting erupted Wednesday after the guerrillas attacked an Israeli military patrol, killing eight soldiers and capturing two others. Since then, more than 105 Lebanese, most of them civilians, and four Israeli civilians have been killed.

Israel has bombarded Lebanon’s airport and main roads in the most intensive offensive against the country in 24 years, while Hezbollah has fired an almost non-stop barrage of rockets at northern Israeli towns and cities.

In Haifa on Saturday, the Israeli army deployed a Patriot missile battery, the army said. The missile defence system cannot destroy Katyusha rockets – hundreds of which have been fired at Israel from Lebanon in recent days – but could protect against surface-to-surface missiles, such as those possessed by Syria, the army said.

The deployment of the US-made defence system appeared to signify that Israel was bracing for the possibility that fighting could spread to Syria.

On Saturday, Hezbollah rockets hit Tiberias three times, the first attack on the city since the 1973 Mideast war. At least two houses were directly hit, but only a few light injuries were reported, medics said.

Earlier today it was reported that at least 12 Lebanese villagers, including women and children, were killed in what appeared to be an Israeli airstrike on a convoy of vehicles fleeing a village near the border with Israel in southern Lebanon, a witness said.

The Lebanese convoy was leaving the border village of Marwaheen, when it was attacked. An Associated Press photographer said he counted 12 bodies in two cars that were destroyed by the attack shortly after midday (10am Irish time).

Several hours earlier, Israeli forces across the border told villagers by loudspeaker to leave the area or else the village would be destroyed. They did not give a reason for the ultimatum.

[Ugg]

Your title is erroneous. Israel accuses but provides no proof. Even the title of the article makes this clear.

[zimv20]

all the western stories covering those mention how many rockets hezbollah has launched, but there's no estimate for how many shells and rockets israel has fired.

why is that?

[FFTT]

I'm with you there Zim.

Even CNN is reporting a rather slanted view of the situation.

[MACDRIVE]

Your title is erroneous. Israel accuses but provides no proof. Even the title of the article makes this clear.

I posted this thread to keep you guys talking. There is nothing good on TV tonight and I need my entertainment. Whether the posted quote is true or not, is for you guys to decide. :p

[zimv20]

I posted this thread to keep you guys talking.
but i assume you want us to talk about the content and not how you posted it.

[MACDRIVE]

^^ Yes, and I can change the topic title to whatever you guys want. Let me know what you want it to say. ;)

[DZ/015]

Would you consider "Does Anyone Here Like Kittens and Puppies"?

[MACDRIVE]

^^ That's a nice title, but it doesn't match the content of the thread. :)

[MACDRIVE]

Ugg, what does erroneous mean anyway? :confused:

[iTwitch]

How about "Hezbollah fires Kittens and Puppies into Israel".

[FFTT]

Now this is an issue that all Americans can stand behind!

A Constitutional amendment banning the use of kittens and puppies
as Weapons Of Mass Destruction.

[MACDRIVE]

Oh for crimany sakes... you guys are unreal. :rolleyes:

[pseudobrit]

all the western stories covering those mention how many rockets hezbollah has launched, but there's no estimate for how many shells and rockets israel has fired.

why is that?

Lead story from Yahoo:

"Israel tightens noose around Lebanon"

A more fitting description of the situation I think. I saw a photograph earlier tonight of Beirut, power knocked out and much of the city aflame. A more fitting picture of the situation.

CNN last night had Anderson Cooper in an Israeli bomb shelter. It's scary that Yahoo!(!) has been providing better balance than CNN.

[MACDRIVE]

What we need is a Mad Jew to go in there and take Hezbollah out. ;)

[Dont Hurt Me]

I doubt very much Hezbolla would have the know how on making and using missiles, Im sure someone like Syria or Iran has advisors on how to store,maintain and fire these systems. Spinning this off like so many masters here love to do is still spin. Someone has given them these missiles and the knowhow to use. Lets refrain from spin.we get enough of that.

[stubeeef]

Part of the determination will come for comint, dialects-terms used and such. It fill be post facto built and will only be a guess till hard proof is provided if there is any and it is true. I hope it is not proven.

[Ugg]

Part of the determination will come for comint, dialects-terms used and such. It fill be post facto built and will only be a guess till hard proof is provided if there is any and it is true. I hope it is not proven.

What?

[Dont Hurt Me]

A biq question here is this terrorist group having these missiles, we are talking medium range missiles given to terrorist groups by Iran. Some of these things are radar guided. Hezbollah is asking for it, Israel will chase em out of Lebanon but it wont be pretty.

[adroit]

Talking about bias.

I just read the news from both CBC and Fox News, and find it very interesting how Fox news leaves a lot of facts out.

For example:
1.
The attack on Haifa raised Israel's death toll from the fighting to at least 24, including 12 civilians. Israeli air strikes in Lebanon have killed 130 people, mostly civilians.

There is no mention of the death toll of the Lebonese in Fox news.


2. CBC also talks about how Israel bombed power station near Beirut.

The attack, which marked a continuing increase in violence after five days of back-and-forth attacks, flattened Beirut apartment buildings and knocked out power around the city.

Fox News never mentioned that the power was out because the power station was and bombed. They make it sounds like a few power poles accidently got knocked down.

I am not saying that either source is any better than the other. But it is important to find information from both side of the story.

[zimv20]

I am not saying that either source is any better than the other. But it is important to find information from both side of the story.
most stories mention how many rockets hezbollah have fired and the israeli casualities. i had to do some looking for the other side, but here it is (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/16/mideast/index.html):

Lebanese security sources said on Sunday that 90 civilians and three soldiers have been killed and 262 have been wounded since Wednesday.

Sunday, the AP put the Lebanese death toll at 148.

A total of 12 Israeli civilians and 12 Israeli military personnel have been killed since Wednesday. More than 100 others have been wounded.

148 lebanese vs 24 israeli. and the US media and gov't are sympathetic to the israelis. i conclude that, again, the lives of white people count for more than the lives of brown people.

[FFTT]

It just keeps getting better.:(

India has postponed peace talks with Pakistan because it suspects that militants based there are responsible for the train bombings that killed 179 people in Mumbai.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/76A98F09-E93F-4F96-A92B-A97D1C6B27C3.htm



Israeli warplanes have killed at least 25 civilians and wounded 33 others in a series of new air attacks on southern Lebanon.


One air strike killed at least 10 people in the coastal city of Tyre on Sunday evening. Another raid destroyed several houses near the Israeli border and killed at least 16 civilians.

The latest deaths mean that Israel's offensive against Hezbollah and Lebanon has killed at least 130 people since Wednesday.

Most of the civilian victims of today's attacks died when their homes were struck by Israeli bombs or missiles, Lebanese police said.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E821E46B-A4DA-46B9-8FD5-FE461210664B.htm

[thedude110]

And we've got a a suicide bombing in Iraq that seems to have killed 25 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13858530/).

It's an ugly, ugly time right now ...

[satty]

On a German news site is a report of 8 Candians killed in Lebanon:


Acht Kanadier im Libanon getötet

Im Libanon sind acht kanadische Staatsbürger ums Leben gekommen. Das teilte der kanadische Außenminister am Abend mit.

[stubeeef]

What?
Is the terminal velocity of an unladen sparrow?

[PlaceofDis]

so when does World War III offically begin?

[iGary]

so when does World War III offically begin?

Tomorrow at noon. Wanna go out? :D

[FFTT]

It began with the hostage crisis in Iran

It's been simmering ever since then, but now we're looking at an endless
attempt to control terrorist reprisals.

[zimv20]

so when does World War III offically begin?
it began 8 Dec 2000 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/00-949.ZPC.html).

[j26]

so when does World War III offically begin?

About 5 days ago.

[FFTT]

it began 8 Dec 2000 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/00-949.ZPC.html).

I think that was the beginning of the war against our Constitution

[lord patton]

most stories mention how many rockets hezbollah have fired and the israeli casualities. i had to do some looking for the other side, but here it is (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/16/mideast/index.html):

148 lebanese vs 24 israeli. and the US media and gov't are sympathetic to the israelis. i conclude that, again, the lives of white people count for more than the lives of brown people.

jesus christ, man. There are plenty of brown Israelis.

As for your moral equivalence, there's more to the story than how many people have been killed. Israel withdrew from Lebanon in 2000, and asked the U.N. to verify the new international border. The U.N. complied, and everyone was supposed to be peaceful now that Israel finally took away the "root cause", i.e., occupation.:rolleyes:

And look at them now. Southern Lebanon is controlled by Hezbollah, who is armed with 10,000 rockets (some of which they've been firing into Israel since at least 2002) and takinig orders from Tehran.

What's Israel supposed to do? Re-occupy Lebenon? They have to force Beirut, Syria, and Iran to back down, or they'll be lit up even worse when Hezbollah gets better weapons.

They're the only liberal republic in that part of the world, and I'm glad they take their self-defense seriously.

[thedude110]

so when does World War III offically begin?

Ha! According to the Bushies, we're in World War IV already (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_IV)!

[solvs]

What we need is a Mad Jew to go in there and take Hezbollah out. ;)
He doesn't come here because it doesn't raise your post count. :p

Seriously though, it's going to take some brilliant strategies and a lot of cool heads to come to a peaceable solution to this. Their leaders and ours all need to put aside the past and think about what's best for all of the innocent people caught in the crossfire. In other words, we're all doomed.

[MACDRIVE]

zimv20 man, there are a lot of casulties on the Lebanese side because Hezbollah keeps firing their rockets from heavily populated areas. Sure the Israelis could just not fire on them until Hezbollah gets away from the populated areas, but Hezbollah's tactics are to draw fire from the Isaelis towards populated areas so they can use the media to instill anger in other ME countries.

[zimv20]

there are a lot of casulties on the Lebanese side because [...]
the point i was making is that the TV news i'm watching (non-cable, usually ABC) and the articles i'm reading (CNN and the like) first and foremost mention the israeli casualties, but often don't mention the lebanese casualties.

even on the 10 o'clock news tonight, they provided a rather unhelpful total of both sides added together. it's as if they're trying to hide the fact that israel is doing more killing.

[sushi]

Part of the determination will come for comint, dialects-terms used and such. It fill be post facto built and will only be a guess till hard proof is provided if there is any and it is true. I hope it is not proven.
Agreed.

Unfortunately, many of the weapons they are using are from Iran so that would indicate some possible on site support/advisors.

Waiting to see.

[IJ Reilly]

the point i was making is that the TV news i'm watching (non-cable, usually ABC) and the articles i'm reading (CNN and the like) first and foremost mention the israeli casualties, but often don't mention the lebanese casualties.

even on the 10 o'clock news tonight, they provided a rather unhelpful total of both sides added together. it's as if they're trying to hide the fact that israel is doing more killing.

Yes, Israel has the better weapons. But I'm not sure what that proves.

[zimv20]

Yes, Israel has the better weapons. But I'm not sure what that proves.
my comments aren't about the facts on the ground, but the way they're reported: the ally gets favorable media treatment. i guess that falls in the "what did you expect?" category, but it seems slanted to turn popular opinion against lebanon (as if the populace needed any help with that).

[IJ Reilly]

my comments aren't about the facts on the ground, but the way they're reported: the ally gets favorable media treatment. i guess that falls in the "what did you expect?" category, but it seems slanted to turn popular opinion against lebanon (as if the populace needed any help with that).

I don't know, maybe. Do you think Israel comes off looking good in all of this? I think their ability to respond to rocket attacks with major air strikes makes the conflict look lopsided and unfair to most people, whether the death statistics are broken down by nationality or not. I suspect the subtle fact that Israel's real target is the dysfunctional Lebanese government, and how their strings are being pulled from Damascus and Tehran is lost on most people anyway.

[zimv20]

Do you think Israel comes off looking good in all of this?
to the lightly informed, yes. after all, they're simply responding to muslim terrorists who fire hundreds of rockets a day into israeli homes, operate independently of their government, and refuse to disarm. and what's that? they're being backed by iran? does that mean they have a nuke?!?! aghhhhh!!!!!!

i really have very little faith in the american populace. and i've yet to hear one statement from the MSM that even hints that the israeli reponse may either be:
1) an overreaction
2) a deliberate tactic to further a hidden agenda

[blackfox]

All I know is that the most dangerous movements are often composed of war orphans - who are particularily brutal because they are unsocialized.

Many have never known the company of women, and retreat into a male-brotherhood (a la the Crusaders).

They also are generally incompetent, naive and cruel, as they are begot by isolation from the outside world and by growing up during war without parents.

They are also creatures of Globalization - influenced by imported ideologies (certain strains of Islam, Marx) and financed by foreigners.

They are the Taliban, the Khymer Rouge and the Revolutionary United Front, to name a few. Add names at your leisure - there are plenty of examples.

So while Israel's actions may seem necessary or justified to some, they are just creating the scene for the next wave of terror.

So are the US in Iraq.

This is not to say that those actions should be unilaterally condemned, but it is important to remember what the consquences will likely be - consequences that may very well be the next generations' problem.

It is important to ask then, under these circumstances, whose responsibility is it to take the higher road?

[FFTT]

One point often gets overlooked.

The majority of hard line conservative Muslims see us as trying to change
their way of life.

The majority can't comprehend the importance of the separation of church and state.

We're having our own problems with that now in the U.S.

These are the dangers of a faith based society manipulated by those who benefit from the power of organized religion.

[IJ Reilly]

to the lightly informed, yes. after all, they're simply responding to muslim terrorists who fire hundreds of rockets a day into israeli homes, operate independently of their government, and refuse to disarm. and what's that? they're being backed by iran? does that mean they have a nuke?!?! aghhhhh!!!!!!

i really have very little faith in the american populace. and i've yet to hear one statement from the MSM that even hints that the israeli reponse may either be:
1) an overreaction
2) a deliberate tactic to further a hidden agenda

Maybe my mistake is not watching more cable network news, so I can be better misinformed. Israel is being criticized for overreacting. I believe Putin was the last major world leader to make such a statement, at the recent economic summit conference I believe. I could also say just as easily that the media tends to romanticize the Palestinian cause. Even as Hezbollah and Hamas were shooting it out in the streets of Gaza after the election, I didn't hear much questioning about whether the Palestinians were capable of governing themselves, even given the opportunity.

[Dont Hurt Me]

They cant, to many extreme muslim groups all wanting war with Israel , No one can govern with constant fighting,killing & murder of anyone who has opposing views. The Palestinians cant govern themself,history has shown it, just like Lebanon cant history has showed that also now ask why? Extremist,Islamic Extremist willing to murder,murder and more murder.

[solvs]

to the lightly informed, yes.
I was going to agree with IJ, but this article has me confused: Israel floats idea to end Lebanon fighting (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13897540/). Sounds good, but then if you really read the article (and pretty much every other one on that same subject), it seems like it's telling a completely different story. :confused:

To quote Ellen Feiss, "eh?"