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nickelbackmac
Jul 16, 2006, 11:14 PM
Fellow 2006 or older Navigator drivers, post your pix here! My cashmere one is 2006 and FULLY LOADED but sadly my camera is at work. I'd love to see other Navigators!!!

celebrian23
Jul 16, 2006, 11:17 PM
...I thought this would be about lincoln logs ;)

nickelbackmac
Jul 16, 2006, 11:19 PM
...I thought this would be about lincoln logs ;)

They're always fun :D

mark!
Jul 16, 2006, 11:21 PM
lincolns :mad:
oversized ''SUVs'' :mad:

nickelbackmac
Jul 16, 2006, 11:27 PM
lincolns :mad:
oversized ''SUVs'' :mad:


Don't think so.

Now ready to purchase my 2007 and I'm getting impatient with Ford! The "oversizedness" of them gives me more space than my Tahoe did. Plus, family trips are important so we need a big SUV.

iMacFan78
Jul 16, 2006, 11:27 PM
Fellow 2006 or older Navigator drivers, post your pix here! My cashmere one is 2006 and FULLY LOADED but sadly my camera is at work. I'd love to see other Navigators!!!Boy would I hate to pay for your gas.

nickelbackmac
Jul 16, 2006, 11:28 PM
Boy would I hate to pay for your gas.

Mileage is not too bad actually, plus have you heard of the ethanol process, I'm not sure if I should try that.

steamboat26
Jul 16, 2006, 11:33 PM
ethanol actually doesn't increase gas mileage by that much, and requires fossil fuels to harvest the corn. It cuts down on certain gasolene emissions, but increases other pollutants. And it isn't that much cheaper, so you won't be saving much money.

Platform
Jul 17, 2006, 12:16 AM
Don't think so.

Now ready to purchase my 2007 and I'm getting impatient with Ford! The "oversizedness" of them gives me more space than my Tahoe did. Plus, family trips are important so we need a big SUV.

Need a big car, not a car that sucks up every gram of petrol/gas in it's path.

There are many cars that have the same amount of space, safer, smaller engine but = power because of less weight with great range ;)

w_parietti22
Jul 17, 2006, 12:25 AM
I hate Navigators. No offence.

Koodauw
Jul 17, 2006, 12:25 AM
You must have a small.... trailer hitch.

w_parietti22
Jul 17, 2006, 12:26 AM
You must have a small.... trailer hitch.

Voted post of the day award :D

cycocelica
Jul 17, 2006, 12:37 AM
I love how this thread got so critical of SUVs. I am pretty sure he only asked for pictures (a little weird but hey). Obviously he can afford it so why keep telling them they are expensive and gas hogs? Granted it is a forum and you can post whatever you want. But really...

leftfoot
Jul 17, 2006, 12:41 AM
Used to have a Navigator, was a peice of crap (lemon). I traded it in for this.

Edit (dont want people to think I'm a dick.): I liked the Navigator while I had it, It served its purpose, and was a nice car, untill it started to fall apart.

http://static.flickr.com/74/177299756_97acc4c36f_m.jpg
http://youtube.com/profile_videos?user=leftfoot

mark!
Jul 17, 2006, 12:51 AM
I love how this thread got so critical of SUVs. I am pretty sure he only asked for pictures (a little weird but hey). Obviously he can afford it so why keep telling them they are expensive and gas hogs? Granted it is a forum and you can post whatever you want. But really...

well when i said something it wasn't about gas prices at all.

...but just saying.

technicolor
Jul 17, 2006, 07:05 AM
I love how this thread got so critical of SUVs. I am pretty sure he only asked for pictures (a little weird but hey). Obviously he can afford it so why keep telling them they are expensive and gas hogs? Granted it is a forum and you can post whatever you want. But really...
Exactly. People on this board love to get so preachy and high and mighty about how OTHER people spend their money.

Lord Blackadder
Jul 17, 2006, 07:31 AM
I have to say that I'm not much of a fan of SUVs either - but people shouldn't ruin this thread by attacking the OP. If you just want to rip up SUVs there are plenty of old threads on that topic laying aroiund waiting to be resurrected...

Right now I'm finishing up an archeological dig I've been doing since May, and every day I've been driving around in the university truck, an early 90's Ford F-350 crew cab monster...I have to parallel park it every morning and that ain't fun, but it does have a switch to swap between its two fuel tanks. How cool is that? :p

A friend of mine just switched from a '97 Expedition to a '02 Navigator...haven't ridden in it yet but I imagine it's the same as the big Ford.

Sun Baked
Jul 17, 2006, 07:33 AM
ethanol actually doesn't increase gas mileage by that much, and requires fossil fuels to harvest the corn. It cuts down on certain gasolene emissions, but increases other pollutants. And it isn't that much cheaper, so you won't be saving much money.Actually ethanol reduces the fuel mileage by a significant amount, since it has less energy per gallon than gasoline.

In general a quick measurement of the fuel economy of E85 is the highway mileage dropping to the old gasoline city mileage and the city mileage being near the old spread below that.

A Ford F150 FFV will be
Gas 14 18
E85 10 13

Dodge Durango
Gas 12 15
E85 9 11

So unless E85 cost a bit less than gasoline, it will end up costing you a bit more for fuel -- due to the need to top up more.

jrk07
Jul 17, 2006, 11:52 AM
If you really NEED that SUV you should go a little more environment friendly with a nice Highlander Hybrid (http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/2006/highlander/models.html). I really don't get why most American's think that Hybrids are only about saving money at the pump. Its about something way more important, the environment.

On a more on topic note, you really thought there were going to be enough Lincoln Navigator owners to warrant a thread for that specific SUV? Why not just post in the "post a pic of your car" thread?

steamboat26
Jul 18, 2006, 09:40 PM
Actually ethanol reduces the fuel mileage by a significant amount, since it has less energy per gallon than gasoline.

In general a quick measurement of the fuel economy of E85 is the highway mileage dropping to the old gasoline city mileage and the city mileage being near the old spread below that.

A Ford F150 FFV will be
Gas 14 18
E85 10 13

Dodge Durango
Gas 12 15
E85 9 11

So unless E85 cost a bit less than gasoline, it will end up costing you a bit more for fuel -- due to the need to top up more.

Thats good to know, thanks for the info:D

Platform
Jul 19, 2006, 01:56 AM
I love how this thread got so critical of SUVs. I am pretty sure he only asked for pictures (a little weird but hey). Obviously he can afford it so why keep telling them they are expensive and gas hogs? Granted it is a forum and you can post whatever you want. But really...

No you got me wrong, I said so because it pollutes...more fuel used = more pollution ;)

No objection to spending money.....spend it if you can ;)

munkees
Jul 19, 2006, 03:26 AM
Well we are growing from a family of 3 to 6, my wife has triplets, so, I want a 4x4, but landrover or chevy, the cost of gas is so high, we are going for a AWD dodge caravan, will set 7, burn less gas and AWD will help when I hit the grave trails for camping / fishing

pilotError
Jul 19, 2006, 09:27 AM
Well we are growing from a family of 3 to 6

You shouldn't feel bad about owning one. I'm in the same boat. I have an expedition right now, but I'm looking for a new truck. Was looking at the Escalade and the GL450. They are supposed to completely change the Navigator for 2007 from what I heard.

I'd love to see someone fit 3 car seats across in one of them battery powered milk containers.

As for gas... I don't find the mileage all that bad. If I could have a smaller practicle vehicle, I might look at it. Even minivans aren't all that much better on gas.

Sun Baked
Jul 19, 2006, 09:52 AM
There is always the Freightliner Sprinter if you want a full sized people mover that will get 25 MPG.

But that is a full size van, so a bit bigger than some of the other vehicles mentioned here -- but it is also called a Mercedes Benz outside the US, or a Dodge at the Dodge dealer where it is probably more expensive.

Of course driving around a van sized Fedex/UPS vehicle isn't what some would want either. Still a decent vehicle though.

---

Of course it isn't a battery powered milk vehicle either, more like a diesel powered milk delivery van.

BakedBeans
Jul 19, 2006, 09:59 AM
I love the navigators. They looks great. I've been looking for something a bit sportier though as I already have the hummer for long distance.

e˛Studios
Jul 19, 2006, 11:10 AM
I would probably bet that my 2004 Range Rover gets worse gas mileage than the Lincoln Navigator, but I cant say for sure. I dont drive it all too much, thinking to sell it by the years end.

One thing i can say is that for most people if you can afford the car chances are you can afford the fuel and upkeep on it. It probably costs me $75 to fill the tank on the Range Rover but it in no way breaks me.

Why sell it? Its not the fuel economy or fuel costs, its because i have had nothing but problems with the damn thing. 2 years old and its already had its transmission replaced, the ECU replaced, and the navigation system replaced, Rovers arent made very well imo.

To the OP, my friend has a Navigator and she loves it, its a comfortable ride, have fun. On an off note if you want a 2004 Range Rover ill sell you mine, it has a new drivetrain :D

Ed

nickelbackmac
Jul 19, 2006, 12:54 PM
I love the navigators. They looks great. I've been looking for something a bit sportier though as I already have the hummer for long distance.


THANK YOU! I have a friend who ad a Hummer but it was breaking down so much she traded it for on '06 Chevy SUV

nickelbackmac
Jul 19, 2006, 12:57 PM
I would probably bet that my 2004 Range Rover gets worse gas mileage than the Lincoln Navigator, but I cant say for sure. I dont drive it all too much, thinking to sell it by the years end.

One thing i can say is that for most people if you can afford the car chances are you can afford the fuel and upkeep on it. It probably costs me $75 to fill the tank on the Range Rover but it in no way breaks me.

Why sell it? Its not the fuel economy or fuel costs, its because i have had nothing but problems with the damn thing. 2 years old and its already had its transmission replaced, the ECU replaced, and the navigation system replaced, Rovers arent made very well imo.

To the OP, my friend has a Navigator and she loves it, its a comfortable ride, have fun. On an off note if you want a 2004 Range Rover ill sell you mine, it has a new drivetrain :D

Ed







I love the R.R. we own a body repair shop to repair cars and transmission, and we have a towing business. A-1 Towing LLC and Southwest Collision, Auto Sales and Transmission/Body Repair. Not to mention the real estate. By the way, we are currently working on a R.R. and I love the inside. But for now, I'll stick with my Lincoln.

Anybody got a recommendation for a good SUV?

dpaanlka
Jul 19, 2006, 01:17 PM
The Lincoln Navigator, and all Lincolns for that matter, are the textbook example of gaudy to the point of disgusting. They wonder why most Luxury car buyers don't take them very seriously. There is essentially no refinement in Lincolns compared to say BMW, MB, and even Cadillac and current Buicks.

A Navigator is also a "fake" SUV in the sense that it's two purposes is to be gaudy and carry a lot of people. It has all off-road capeability and "truck-ness" removed from the car wheras Tahoe Z71, while a hair smaller than a Navigator, would climb all over it. The comparison of the two is unfair, not only for that reason, but because they are in a different size class. A better size comparison would be the Suburban - which of course ousts the Navigator, as does it's Cadillac cousin, the Escalade ESV.

If your so concerned about moving people around, why not buy a similarly priced Mercedes R class or GL class. Twenty times more refined, and way cooler than a Navigator... and faster too. Even an Escalade ESV would be a better choice. All those cars, while having similar off-road capeability of a Navigator, are way more prestigeous, refined, *cooler*, just plain better.

Lincoln is a joke. The Luxury car for people who don't care about cars. The Luxury car for people who don't do real-life test drives, or do real research, or (most commonly) continue to insist on buying Fords even though every other brand has higher quality products - including GM.

michaeldmartin
Jul 19, 2006, 01:29 PM
Get a caddalac cien when they come out; why not?? V12 engine at 750 horsepower! :D

Silencio
Jul 19, 2006, 01:29 PM
Exactly. People on this board love to get so preachy and high and mighty about how OTHER people spend their money.

Too bad that gas is a global commodity. Higher demand caused by many people driving lower-mileage vehicles drives up gas prices for everyone. And SUVs are subject to less stringent emissions standards -- everyone has to breathe air that is more polluted when the mix of SUVs and light trucks on the road is higher.

Personal choices do affect others. I am all for rugged individualism, but we must remember our lives and choices don't exist in a vacuum.

Give me a good, working SUV any day. No leather seats. No flip-screen LCDs with DVD player. Something that can actually, you know, go off-road. For moving people around, a good minivan will do the trick nicely and cost less money to purchase and keep filled with gas, but I suppose they won't be quite as fulfilling in a Freudian kind of way...

nickelbackmac
Jul 19, 2006, 01:30 PM
The Lincoln Navigator, and all Lincolns for that matter, are the textbook example of gaudy to the point of disgusting. They wonder why most Luxury car buyers don't take them very seriously. There is essentially no refinement in Lincolns compared to say BMW, MB, and even Cadillac and current Buicks.

A Navigator is also a "fake" SUV in the sense that it's two purposes is to be gaudy and carry a lot of people. It has all off-road capeability and "truck-ness" removed from the car wheras Tahoe Z71, while a hair smaller than a Navigator, would climb all over it. The comparison of the two is unfair, not only for that reason, but because they are in a different size class. A better size comparison would be the Suburban - which of course ousts the Navigator, as does it's Cadillac cousin, the Escalade ESV.

If your so concerned about moving people around, why not buy a similarly priced Mercedes R class or GL class. Twenty times more refined, and way cooler than a Navigator... and faster too. Even an Escalade ESV would be a better choice. All those cars, while having similar off-road capeability of a Navigator, are way more prestigeous, refined, *cooler*, just plain better.

Lincoln is a joke. The Luxury car for people who don't care about cars. The Luxury car for people who don't do real-life test drives, or do real research, or (most commonly) continue to insist on buying Fords even though every other brand has higher quality products - including GM.


I had a Z71 and I hated it. I never really bought this, it was an anniversary gift from my wife, and she pays for it. Personally, I like the ESV Platinum better, but she doesn't want to trade until October, so I will personally let you know what she chooses. You don't need to discriminate our car choices, you may like what you like, but I'm not some idiot like you think. You're the one who just won't shut up. And Lincoln is not a joke... you are.


To everyone else: Thanks for not being such an ******* like this member is.

michaeldmartin
Jul 19, 2006, 01:31 PM
Too bad that gas is a global commodity. Higher demand caused by many people driving lower-mileage vehicles drives up gas prices for everyone. And SUVs are subject to less stringent emissions standards -- everyone has to breathe air that is more polluted when the mix of SUVs and light trucks on the road is higher.

Personal choices do affect others. I am all for rugged individualism, but we must remember our lives and choices don't exist in a vacuum.

Give me a good, working SUV any day. No leather seats. No flip-screen LCDs with DVD player. Something that can actually, you know, go off-road. For moving people around, a good minivan will do the trick nicely and cost less money to purchase and keep filled with gas, but I suppose they won't be quite as fulfilling in a Freudian kind of way...

No, it's because new leaders of oil countries decide "Why not just drive the price up two dollars per gallon? No one will notice!" Then everyone else follows suit. ;)

Silencio
Jul 19, 2006, 01:31 PM
THANK YOU! I have a friend who ad a Hummer but it was breaking down so much she traded it for on '06 Chevy SUV

Aren't the H2 and H3 built on Chevy chassis to begin with? Do they use Chevy drivetrains, as well?

Silencio
Jul 19, 2006, 01:33 PM
No, it's because new leaders of oil countries decide "Why not just drive the price up two dollars per gallon? No one will notice!" Then everyone else follows suit. ;)

True, that. Plus there are pinch points in the oil supply at the refinery level in the US, leaving yet another opportunity for the oil companies to arbitrarily set supply and price.

The only way we can fight all this is to simply lower our demand for oil.

nickelbackmac
Jul 19, 2006, 01:35 PM
Aren't the H2 and H3 built on Chevy chassis to begin with? Do they use Chevy drivetrains, as well?

I'm not sure. They remind me of the Chevy HHR. This is so weird, I own a body repair shop, yet I am unable to answer this question.

dpaanlka
Jul 19, 2006, 02:03 PM
You don't need to discriminate our car choices, you may like what you like, but I'm not some idiot like you think.

It has nothing to do with *liking* as I like normal cars more than SUVs. It's a matter of common sense. If you don't want to hear what others think, then don't post about your car in a public forum. I can't see how anybody who is searching for a car in the $50k - $60k price range could possibly select a Lincoln as the best choice. They simply don't cut it when compared to the competition.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but I want everyone who is considering a Lincoln to, you know, actually look at other cars. I'm sure you'll change your mind once you do.

You're the one who just won't shut up. And Lincoln is not a joke... you are.

No, I'm pretty sure Lincoln is.

To everyone else: Thanks for not being such an ******* like this member is.

Nobody is swearing but you. Nice private message, by the way.

I'm not sure. They remind me of the Chevy HHR. This is so weird, I own a body repair shop, yet I am unable to answer this question.

Maybe in appearance, but they're both much larger. As for Chevy drivetrains - All GM consumer trucks use Chevy drivetrains, or variants of them.

e˛Studios
Jul 19, 2006, 02:33 PM
As for Chevy drivetrains - All GM consumer trucks use Chevy drivetrains, or variants of them.

GM Transmissions are one of the most widley used in both foreign and domestics. German manufacturers, Japanese manufacturers and American manufacturers all use GM transmissions in some if not most all their vehicles. I read an article online about this and it jsut amazed me.

Ed

dpaanlka
Jul 19, 2006, 03:14 PM
GM Transmissions are one of the most widley used in both foreign and domestics. German manufacturers, Japanese manufacturers and American manufacturers all use GM transmissions in some if not most all their vehicles. I read an article online about this and it jsut amazed me.

Ed

Interesting... I'm not so sure about that though. GM transmissions are rather low grade, they are only now finally putting six speeds into their cars. Some GMs don't even have GM transmissions, such as certain GMC products which use Allison transmissions.

Honda does use GM diesels in Europe though. GM uses some Honda V6s in the United States, however.

CompUser
Jul 19, 2006, 03:21 PM
With the newer style expedition and navigator, I just think they are massive on the outside, wide in the inside, but not as spacious as they should be considering the size of the car. My dad had a rental one once it appeared that the distance between the grill and the radiator was 1 foot

My dad''s 2003 Land Rover Discovery has a 4.6l V8, the same engine used in pre 2003 Range Rovers. This thing guzzles gas faster than you can chug a little box of milk. It averages 13mph around town. 16-17mpg max on the highway. It just had a massive amount of work done. New computer, new battery, alternator, new door lock, new A/C system, and an oil change. All of the work was done out of warranty. We were supposed to get it back monday, but they ordered the wrong part. We picked it up today, my mom paid the enormous bill, and we left. About 5 min after leaving the radio went out and water was leaking onto my moms feat. She turned around drove back really fast and yelled at them (she just spent thousands and thousands fixing the car)- I love when she is mad- she flipped the s*** on them.

Anyways don't buy a land rover. They are too unreliable. At least we got a better loaner car this time- LR3 HSE (you know they want us to buy a new car after this ordeal, and we are, but probably not an LR3)

jamesW135
Jul 19, 2006, 04:14 PM
The Lincoln Navigatior just dosn't look like a good car to me. It's comfy and all but does anyone really like the design?

mark!
Jul 19, 2006, 04:57 PM
The Lincoln Navigatior just dosn't look like a good car to me. It's comfy and all but does anyone really like the design?

People for some reason think oversized vehicles are attractive.
They are wasteful & pointless & take up the road, and the majority that drive them are jack asses.

CompUser
Jul 19, 2006, 05:16 PM
People for some reason think oversized vehicles are attractive.
They are wasteful & pointless & take up the road, and the majority that drive them are jack asses.

I guess everyone in my town is a Jackass. Everyone here has an SUV. If they don't they have a volvo xc70.

Platform
Jul 20, 2006, 01:13 AM
I love the navigators. They looks great. I've been looking for something a bit sportier though as I already have the hummer for long distance.

H1, H2 or H3 ?

The H1 is amazing in the terrain...I guess it's a H2 (long trips or?)

Chip NoVaMac
Jul 20, 2006, 01:43 AM
Don't think so.

Now ready to purchase my 2007 and I'm getting impatient with Ford! The "oversizedness" of them gives me more space than my Tahoe did. Plus, family trips are important so we need a big SUV.

Not sure how big your family is. But in my "family" of "four" we were able to deal with the likes a an Olds Vista Cruiser.

We have become a nation of excess. Big SUV's. 2000sf+ homes. 40# "carry-on" bags.

Never mind in 20+ years we still have an average 20mpg or so. We should have learned that personal greed is not good for the world needs.

NGC 104
Jul 29, 2006, 06:04 PM
I guess everyone in my town is a Jackass. Everyone here has an SUV. If they don't they have a volvo xc70.

In the very rural place I live most people have town cars, because that's all they need for the most part. The SUVs are owned by farmers and people who actually need the utility of a 4x4 occasionally. The rest are urban refugees trying to look like landed gentry. That's pretty much how it is throughout the whole country. The locals here laugh at city dwellers who seem to be so fixated with looking 'manly' as they drive to and from the supermarket. To see city streets crammed full of huge gas-guzzling SUVs tricked out with spotlights, bullbars, winches, snorkels, etc, being driven by guys in suits and women in evening dresses is just plain hilarious.

Somebody already mentioned something about a right to rugged individualism, but it's hard to see why some city CPA (who only ever goes 'offroad' when he has one vino too many after work and accidentally backs over the geraniums) should even be permitted to cause so much damage and hardship to the rest of the world by owning an utterly inappropriate and useless (to him) vehicle. I'm in favor of new licence restrictions which require a would-be 4x4 owner to demonstrate a genuine need for an SUV (other than "Oh, we ski!" or "I plan to go offroading...sometime...eventually...") . I know that's an unpopular opinion, but I standby it. :p

Oh and "Hi all, first post!" and all that! :)

Sun Baked
Jul 29, 2006, 07:04 PM
This is the Dodge Sprinter poeple mover with a MB grill and bumper cover -- it is after all a MB with a Dodge or Freightliner badge.

http://www.beckerautodesign.com/jetvan/images/newjet3.jpg

But it also gets about 25MPG, so compared to the SUV... :p

Of course, there are AWD options available for retrofit.

Of course it is a van (used by UPS and Fedex), and those and station wagons are avoided because they are not as sexy as SUVs.

quagmire
Jul 29, 2006, 07:54 PM
The 2007 Lincoln Navigator: http://forum.avtoindex.com/foto/data/media/51/2007_lincoln_navigator_1.jpg

Ugly( IMO, since looks are subjective), and still uses the antique 300 HP V8. For my money give me the Escalade with the Vortec 6200(403 HP) with the Hydra-Matic 6L80 6 speed transmission. :D The new trucks and SUV's were originally going to have 6 speeds across the board, but GM sped up the release date of the 900's, but couldn't speed up retooling for the 6 speed. The 6 speed transmission should be in the 900's by 2008.

Interesting... I'm not so sure about that though. GM transmissions are rather low grade, they are only now finally putting six speeds into their cars. Some GMs don't even have GM transmissions, such as certain GMC products which use Allison transmissions.

Honda does use GM diesels in Europe though. GM uses some Honda V6s in the United States, however.

It is true in the most part I have read. I know BMW has used the 5 speed Hydra-Matic in there cars, not sure about any other company though. GM and Ford worked on a FWD 6 speed together, but the RWD 6 speed is all GM. GM makes pretty dependable automatic transmissions. I am not surprised other companies buy the Hydra-Matics. While, the Hydra-matic 4 speeds are old, there sure are dependable. Nothing low grade about them besides the number of gears inside of them.

As good as the Hydra-Matics are though, for Heavy Duty purposes, the Allison transmission is the most dependable Heavy Duty transmission there is. Mated to the Duramax Diesel V8, it is a killer combo. The Allison is in the Silverado/Sierra 2500 HD and up and only available if you get the Duramax Diesel. The gasoline variants have Hydra-Matics. It is true that Honda uses GM Diesel engines in Europe and a 3.5 V6 from Honda in the Saturn Vue. Really, GM was the one that really benefited. Come 2008 when the Vue gets redesigned it will not have the Honda V6 anymore as the deal ends in '07.

CompUser
Jul 29, 2006, 10:30 PM
This is the Dodge Sprinter poeple mover with a MB grill and bumper cover -- it is after all a MB with a Dodge or Freightliner badge.

http://www.beckerautodesign.com/jetvan/images/newjet3.jpg

But it also gets about 25MPG, so compared to the SUV... :p

Of course, there are AWD options available for retrofit.

Of course it is a van (used by UPS and Fedex), and those and station wagons are avoided because they are not as sexy as SUVs.

From what I heard they put the "Freightliner" name on them in america because these are mainly work vans and customers of plumbers, electricians, etc, might think that they are being overcharged if the workman is driving a mercedes.