Wrong To Wave Mexican Flag, But Not Israeli Flag At Rallies? [Archive]

mactastic

Jul 18, 2006, 04:08 PM

So about a month ago we were subjected to all kinds of righty claims that it was un-American for people protesting the proposed GOP immigration plan to carry or to wave Mexican flags at these rallies. They were widely denounced by many prominent members of the right as having "divided loyalties" because of it.

So if we are to take them at their word, wouldn't you think they would be just as upset about people's "divided loyalties" if they were waving the Israeli flag at a rally?

No, once again we see the rank political posturing of the right -- calling their opponents un-American for doing the same thing their own supporters get a pass for doing.

If the truth mattered to anyone who complained about people waving Mexican flags on American soil, then they will condem these people (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2006/07/stand_with_isra.html) as well...

Chacala_Nayarit

Jul 18, 2006, 04:23 PM

Viva La Raza!

SurenoXIII (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpgKfeUJMlo)

XNine

Jul 18, 2006, 04:37 PM

pseudobrit

Jul 18, 2006, 04:40 PM

Persoanlly, I think if you're in America, you should be waiving the American flag. If you go to another country, waive their flag. How hard is it?

I don't run around with a Germany flag spouting german everywhere I go. So why in the hell should anybody else do the same with another flag and language?

Why not? Just because you don't do it?

I don't play golf. Why in the hell should anybody else play?

zimv20

Jul 18, 2006, 04:42 PM

I don't run around with a Germany flag spouting german everywhere I go. So why in the hell should anybody else do the same with another flag and language?
there were a bunch of italian flags being waved 'round the world, including the US, after they won the world cup. anything wrong with that?

XNine

Jul 18, 2006, 04:45 PM

there were a bunch of italian flags being waved 'round the world, including the US, after they won the world cup. anything wrong with that?

No, that's in celebration. That's fine.

But I think using a flag of a place you don't even live anymore to make a political point is quite pathetic, and shows that you don't care for the place that you moved to one damn bit, is all.

pseudobrit

Jul 18, 2006, 04:47 PM

there were a bunch of italian flags being waved 'round the world, including the US, after they won the world cup. anything wrong with that?

It's a disgrace to win on penalty kicks.

pseudobrit

Jul 18, 2006, 04:48 PM

But I think using a flag of a place you don't even live anymore to make a political point is quite pathetic, and shows that you don't care for the place that you moved to one damn bit, is all.

You think everyone who attends immigration rallies is an immigrant? Why can't one be proud of one's heritage?

zimv20

Jul 18, 2006, 04:49 PM

It's a disgrace to win on penalty kicks.
as disgraceful as losing on penalty kicks? :-)

Atlasland

Jul 18, 2006, 05:04 PM

Persoanlly, I think if you're in America, you should be waiving the American flag. If you go to another country, waive their flag. How hard is it?

I don't run around with a Germany flag spouting german everywhere I go. So why in the hell should anybody else do the same with another flag and language?

Before extolling the virtues of using the American/English language, you might want to check that you're using it correctly youself.

XNine

Jul 18, 2006, 05:07 PM

You think everyone who attends immigration rallies is an immigrant? Why can't one be proud of one's heritage?

I didn't say they couldn't be proud, did I? Let's not twist words here.

I just think it's disrespectful to waive another country's flag when you're trying to be a part of another country. That's all. It's my personal opinion is all. Whether it's right or wrong, black or white isn't up to me, but that's my view and I'll stick with it.

IJ Reilly

Jul 18, 2006, 05:09 PM

I don't play golf. Why in the hell should anybody else play?

Stupid game. Ought to be illegal.

XNine

Jul 18, 2006, 05:09 PM

Before extolling the virtues of using the American/English language, you might want to check that you're using it correctly youself.

No extolling here, pal. Did I say that waiving a (insert your preffered country here) flag in AMERICA was wrong? No, I didn't mention any specific area, which means I believe it holds true for all nations. Mind you're P's & Q's.

balamw

Jul 18, 2006, 05:15 PM

Did I say that waiving a (insert your preffered country here) flag in AMERICA was wrong?
I think the point is that waiving (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/waive) the US flag in the United Stated of America, is almost up there with burning it. Waving is quite another thing.

B

XNine

Jul 18, 2006, 05:21 PM

I think the point is that waiving (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/waive) the US flag in the United Stated of America, is almost up there with burning it. Waving is quite another thing.

B
meh, whatever. IE sucks, and I'm too tired to actually go back and think about spelling. I was up half the night at this girl's house I'm seeing and had to get up early to get back home to wear the corporate noose. Gotta stop these late nights.

solvs

Jul 18, 2006, 05:36 PM

nbs2

Jul 18, 2006, 06:27 PM

That's the nice thing about our flag. You can wave other flags under it. Sure, you're an American, but you can still be a Mexican-American, or an Italian-American, or an Israelie-American. Or even an African-American, but that can mean something else than what you'd think.
To me, underneath is fine and dandy. But, people don't seem to get that. They seems to think that the other country comes first. Makes me sad and angry...

mactastic

Jul 18, 2006, 06:48 PM

To me, underneath is fine and dandy. But, people don't seem to get that. They seems to think that the other country comes first. Makes me sad and angry...
So you're saying that all the people waving Israeli flags in that crowd think that Israel comes first?

solvs

Jul 18, 2006, 07:16 PM

So you're saying that all the people waving Israeli flags in that crowd think that Israel comes first?
Now that's an interesting question.

aquajet

Jul 18, 2006, 07:26 PM

Before extolling the virtues of using the American/English language, you might want to check that you're using it correctly youself.

Indeed.

:rolleyes:

XNine

Jul 18, 2006, 08:02 PM

Indeed.

:rolleyes:

Represent homie! :D

Don't get me wrong, being proud of where you came from and your heritage is something everyone is entitled to. I just think, if you're going to be in a country, you should demonstrate why you ARE there. The flag to me, represents all of those who have fought and died for our country. It's a matter of respect with me, and I'm sure natives of other countries feel the same way.

Atlasland

Jul 18, 2006, 08:46 PM

Indeed.

:rolleyes:

Yes, I noticed that error after the fact, but left it all the same.

And the point was that he was "extolling the virtues of using the Engligh language". I wasn't.

And mine was a typo. His was a serious spelling mistake.

:rolleyes:

thedude110

Jul 18, 2006, 08:50 PM

The flag to me, represents all of those who have fought and died for our country.

That "to me" in your statement seems crucial, though. Would you agree that, as a symbolic object, the flag is decidedly interpretive? I mean, there's no "right" way to read the flag -- or is there?

It seems to me that the flag would mean one thing to a veteran of World War II and another thing to someone looking for a way out of the draft during Vietnam, for example.

dornoforpyros

Jul 18, 2006, 09:13 PM

damn, I feel like I should put a flame suit on just from viewing this thread.

mactastic

Jul 18, 2006, 09:34 PM

Actually I'm not so much pointing this out to re-hash the whole flag debate, but to point out the unsurprising quiet from the right-wing noise machine about waving foreign flags at a US rally.

I point this out for all our posters who insist that the GOP cares more about the sanctity of the flag than they do about scoring political points. The GOP does not care about the sanctity of the flag. They care about holding and expanding their power and the power of government.

That is all.

pseudobrit

Jul 18, 2006, 11:05 PM

I didn't say they couldn't be proud, did I? Let's not twist words here.

I just think it's disrespectful to waive another country's flag when you're trying to be a part of another country. That's all.

I think you'd have to understand why the person was waving the flag in the first place. Just because I'm a US citizen doesn't mean I can't be proud of my Irish hertiage and display an Irish flag.

Do you really think one's personal identity cannot span more than one nationality?

On a related note: is it disrepectful to put a rebel flag bumper sticker on yer pickemup truck? 'Cause I see plenty o' good ol' boys sporting the stars and bars, and I doubt you could convince them they're being unpatriotic.

It's my personal opinion is all. Whether it's right or wrong, black or white isn't up to me, but that's my view and I'll stick with it.

Is it necessary to point that out? Of course what you say is your opinion. I'd just like to understand why you hold it.

There must be some reasoning behind it other than a gut feeling, right?

steamboat26

Jul 18, 2006, 11:31 PM

Do you really think one's personal identity cannot span more than one nationality?

On a related note: is it disrepectful to put a rebel flag bumper sticker on yer pickemup truck? 'Cause I see plenty o' good ol' boys sporting the stars and bars, and I doubt you could convince them they're being unpatriotic.

Good points :D . I see no problem being proud of your heritage, but i can understand where Onizuka is coming from.

Queso

Jul 19, 2006, 03:58 AM

Too much emphasis being put of national pride and national symbols. Countries are fast becoming an outdated concept, and the sooner the better IMO. Take a look at the EU for instance. 25 member states gradually moving towards some form of federalisation. That means no more war in Western Europe, and with further expansion no war in Eastern Europe either. Great!!

All this tribal warfare nonsense has to come to an end. There are now so many of us on the planet that we have to start working together. If we don't they'll soon be no human race at all.

XNine

Jul 19, 2006, 09:48 AM

That "to me" in your statement seems crucial, though. Would you agree that, as a symbolic object, the flag is decidedly interpretive? I mean, there's no "right" way to read the flag -- or is there?

It seems to me that the flag would mean one thing to a veteran of World War II and another thing to someone looking for a way out of the draft during Vietnam, for example.

I don't disagree with that. I believe the flag is highly interpretive. But that's why I said that it's *my* opinion. If there are others, that is fine. :)

solvs

Jul 19, 2006, 04:23 PM

On a related note: is it disrepectful to put a rebel flag bumper sticker on yer pickemup truck?
That's a good point, and I was thinking of that too. But apparently that's still considered patriotic. Even if it's anything but.

Counterfit

Jul 27, 2006, 08:31 PM

That's the nice thing about our flag. You can wave other flags under it.
Actually, that's against the law if it's the flag of another country during a time of peace (i.e., now, sorta) according to USC Title 4, Chapter 1, Sub-section 7, paragraph g. When flags of two or more nations are displayed, they are to be flown from separate staffs of the same height. The flags should be of approximately equal size. International usage forbids the display of the flag of one nation above that of another nation in time of peace.

xsedrinam

Jul 27, 2006, 09:24 PM

Actually, that's against the law if it's the flag of another country during a time of peace (i.e., now, sorta) according to USC Title 4, Chapter 1, Sub-section 7, paragraph g.
True. My daughter (just back from Pakistan) captured the border changing of guards (India/Pakistan). She was impressed how they kept both flags "exactly" on even levels through the lowering and raising.

mactastic

Jul 27, 2006, 09:38 PM

Ooo, I've heard that's quite the scene to witness.

solvs

Jul 27, 2006, 10:38 PM

Actually, that's against the law if it's the flag of another country during a time of peace (i.e., now, sorta) according to USC Title 4, Chapter 1, Sub-section 7, paragraph g.
I wasn't being literal. Let's just say "next to". ;)

Don't panic

Jul 27, 2006, 11:08 PM