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mwswami
Jul 25, 2006, 01:19 AM
If the Mac Pro is designed around the Bensley platform (which works with Dempsey, Woodcrest, and Clovertown) Mac Pro can be 4 cores now and 8 cores in the very near future using the same design.

Same is true with the platform for Pentium D, Conroe, and Kentsfield. If Mac Pro decides to use this then 4 core is the end of the line before doing a complete redesign with whatever Intel comes up with next.

I am eagerly looking forward to hearing some details on CSI and what's after 4 cores at the Intel Developer Conference (http://www.intel.com/idf/us/fall2006/index.htm) in Sept. You don't have to attend the conference, the keynotes will all be available online.

-x-
Jul 25, 2006, 07:57 AM
Well I have been following a thread over at Macnn for the last several days that have claims of OS X with Conroe using Photoshop (Rosetta) is faster then a native windows. I can not understand what is going on with these test, , but could OS X for intel have been built upon those extra instructions that Core Duo 2 have over processors before it?

Here is the thread


http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=302585

Here is the test

http://www.retouchartists.com/pages/speedtest.html???

Here are the results the individual got on the same machine with two different OS'S.

Under OS X 2 minutes and 24 seconds.
Under Windows 3 Minutes and 37 seconds

With a 20-inch Intel Imac with 1.5GB of ram it takes 4 minutes and 9 seconds.

If the poster is being truthful then I am in shock and can not comprehend why these scores are the way they are.

I know that Rosetta uses SSE instuctions to help its functions. Here is an Article on how SSE is improved for Conroe.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1935731,00.asp

gnasher729
Jul 25, 2006, 09:33 AM
So you don't expect the Mac Pro at WWDC?? Or only a dual core version using Conroe?

It is hard to predict what will happen. Apple has two reasonable choices:

Choice 1: Develop two different motherboards. By doing that, they can give customers the choice between single Conroe (dual core) and dual Woodcrest (quad core) very soon and replace the whole G5 line after WWDC, and have an option at single Kentsfield (quad core) and dual Clovertown (eight core) soon. Pros: Obvious. Cons: More cost developing two motherboards, Woodcrest is more expensive. And dual Clovertown will be really expensive.

Choice 2: Go with one Conroe motherboard only. By WWDC, the low end Mac Pros are replaced with machines at an excellent price, the quad G5 has to stay. Quad core Kentsfield can be used in a few months, and at that time the quad G5 dies. Pros: Less cost, less work. Cons: G5s live longer, maximum performance is lower.

Both are in my opinion reasonable choices. So what I definitely expect is Conroe Mac Pros, Merom in MacBook Pro, some Core2 variant in iMac. What I think is fifty-fifty: Merom in MacBook and MacMini, Merom or Conroe in iMac, Woodcrest MacPro now or Kentsfield later.

shamino
Jul 25, 2006, 11:36 AM
It is hard to predict what will happen. Apple has two reasonable choices:

Choice 1: Develop two different motherboards. By doing that, they can give customers the choice between single Conroe (dual core) and dual Woodcrest (quad core) very soon and replace the whole G5 line after WWDC, and have an option at single Kentsfield (quad core) and dual Clovertown (eight core) soon. Pros: Obvious. Cons: More cost developing two motherboards, Woodcrest is more expensive. And dual Clovertown will be really expensive.
This is keeping in line with all prior PowerMac systems. Two motherboards - one for single-processor systems and one for dual-processor systems.

And there's no special reason why the single-chip boards have to be Conroe. They could just as easily use a single Woodcrest. This would be cheaper to design, since both boards would use the same chipsets.

As for the price of the processor modules, you really can't assume anything. Apple does not pay retail prices for their chips. They don't even pay the published wholesale prices. They have negotiated contracts, just like those used by Dell, HP and other large manufacturers. You don't know what the difference in price will be - it may be far far less than the difference in retail prices.
Choice 2: Go with one Conroe motherboard only. By WWDC, the low end Mac Pros are replaced with machines at an excellent price, the quad G5 has to stay. Quad core Kentsfield can be used in a few months, and at that time the quad G5 dies. Pros: Less cost, less work. Cons: G5s live longer, maximum performance is lower.
I can't see this happening. The G5 is not going to be sticking around.

And I don't think you can assume that Conroe and Kentsfield chips will be pin-compatible with each other. Apple may very well have to design a few different motherboards for this solution anyway. And if they're doing that, then there's no advantage over your first option.

Multimedia
Jul 25, 2006, 04:20 PM
If the Mac Pro is designed around the Bensley platform (which works with Dempsey, Woodcrest, and Clovertown) Mac Pro can be 4 cores now and 8 cores in the very near future using the same design.

Same is true with the platform for Pentium D, Conroe, and Kentsfield. If Mac Pro decides to use this then 4 core is the end of the line before doing a complete redesign with whatever Intel comes up with next.

I am eagerly looking forward to hearing some details on CSI and what's after 4 cores at the Intel Developer Conference (http://www.intel.com/idf/us/fall2006/index.htm) in Sept. You don't have to attend the conference, the keynotes will all be available online.So you think the 8 core Yorkfield will not fit in the Pentium D, Conroe, and Kentsfield type platform? (I don't know what it is called.)

See that title at the top of your browser? I wonder how many more days before someone in control of this website corrects the misspelling of Clovertown from the Cloverton they put up to begin with. Seems like a very big oversight to have lasted so long.

Check the Road Map for proof Clovertown is the correct spelling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_Microarchitecture).

gnasher729
Jul 25, 2006, 04:25 PM
Well I have been following a thread over at Macnn for the last several days that have claims of OS X with Conroe using Photoshop (Rosetta) is faster then a native windows. I can not understand what is going on with these test, , but could OS X for intel have been built upon those extra instructions that Core Duo 2 have over processors before it?

There was one webpage which made these claims, but it had a "System Profiler" screenshot that was a clear fake.

glassbathroom
Jul 26, 2006, 08:10 AM
I don't know. Almost-two-years seems like enough time :p

("coming in the spring" would mean spring-2007, since we're in summer 2006 right now. "next spring" means the one after that - spring-2008.)

Man A - "Surely "next spring" is 2007, regardless of the fact that "this spring" is over now."

Man B - "You might be right, but don't calll me "Shirley""

rxse7en
Jul 26, 2006, 09:05 AM
http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0607intelcore2.html

8-core in Q4! :D

glassbathroom
Jul 26, 2006, 09:10 AM
http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0607intelcore2.html

8-core in Q4! :D

I am not sure if this is true. I don't trust Think Secret that much.

I have become one of those people who is always waiting for the next update before I purchase. There is always something exciting coming up. Not this time though. I am ordering a Mac Pro on 7th August, just don't tell me what I am missing later.:)

rxse7en
Jul 26, 2006, 09:51 AM
I am not sure if this is true. I don't trust Think Secret that much.

I have become one of those people who is always waiting for the next update before I purchase. There is always something exciting coming up. Not this time though. I am ordering a Mac Pro on 7th August, just don't tell me what I am missing later.:)

I don't blame ya. Personally, I'm done with desktops. Merom (C2D) 'books will be replacing my PB G4 and dual G4 1ghz. Should be more than enough power for me until the next rev. of Intel procs. My one worry is the speed of Adobe CS2 under Rosetta on the C2D 'books. I can live with it if it's anywhere near my current 1.25ghz G4 PB's speed until the release of CS3/Universal.

B

Multimedia
Jul 26, 2006, 12:25 PM
8-core in Q4! (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0607intelcore2.html) :D

Now we're talking. Dual Clovertown. SteveNote January 9, 2007 introduces Mac Pro OctoCore 2. :eek: :cool:

Progressing from two 32-bit cores a year ago to eight 64-bit cores today. Aren't all you early adopters glad you didn't wait? jk :D

Joe The Dragon
Jul 26, 2006, 02:09 PM
http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0607intelcore2.html

8-core in Q4! :D
Amd will kick intel a** with 4 or more cpus. The FSB will be come a big bottleneck with quad-core and a Quad Socket Woodcrest will suck next to a Quad Socket amd system.

twoodcc
Jul 26, 2006, 03:18 PM
Amd will kick intel a** with 4 or more cpus. The FSB will be come a big bottleneck with quad-core and a Quad Socket Woodcrest will suck next to a Quad Socket amd system.

sure it will

JackSYi
Jul 26, 2006, 03:25 PM
Now we're talking. Dual Clovertown. SteveNote January 9, 2007 introduces Mac Pro OctoCore 2. :eek: :cool:

Progressing from two 32-bit cores a year ago to eight 64-bit cores today. Aren't all you early adopters glad you didn't wait? jk :D

Mmmmmmmmm....octocore.

Multimedia
Jul 26, 2006, 04:53 PM
Amd will kick intel a** with 4 or more cpus. The FSB will be come a big bottleneck with quad-core and a Quad Socket Woodcrest will suck next to a Quad Socket amd system.Last time I looked Mac OS X doesn't run on AMD processors. :rolleyes: :eek: :confused: You think the slower FSB will keep 8 cores from running fast?

NewSc2
Jul 27, 2006, 01:21 AM
It's the future, you know, soon the clock speed will be irrelevant and we'll be expressing processor speed in number of cores octocore, hexacore, tricontradicore, hexacontetracore, hecticosoctocore, and such and such

haha, soon enough we'll be going "remember the days we used to only have 1 core?"

aswitcher
Jul 27, 2006, 02:19 AM
haha, soon enough we'll be going "remember the days we used to only have 1 core?"

"1 core should be enough for anyone" ;)

Macinposh
Jul 27, 2006, 03:43 PM
Intresting tidbit in that thinksecret article : Intel is preparing a 4 socket mobo for Q4.

Soo,with the clovertowns in Q1 07(?),that would add up to a hefty 16 cores then.



Then it would be just to wait for the os and applications to catch up on mp support...

patrick0brien
Jul 27, 2006, 07:48 PM
... 16 cores...

-Macinposh

Hefty nothing. That qualifies for an unadulterated 'Holy Crap!'.

Multimedia
Jul 27, 2006, 09:46 PM
Intresting tidbit in that thinksecret article : Intel is preparing a 4 socket mobo for Q4.

Soo,with the clovertowns in Q1 07(?),that would add up to a hefty 16 cores then.

Then it would be just to wait for the os and applications to catch up on mp support...I think it means 8 Cores not 16. I think each Clovertown will use two of those sockets. Or four Woodies would equal 8 cores.

My cautious opinion. :) I wish you were right, but i doubt it.

ampd
Jul 27, 2006, 10:20 PM
I have been waiting till I have enough cash to finally make the switch over to Apple and I should have enough come around Aug. 7th. My dilemma is that I just don't want to buy a regular computer but rather a bamf (ahhh dane cook) 8 core computer. I know I dont need it, I know I shouldnt be wasting my money on it, but I think ill figure out a way to justify me buying such a crazy computer. But the real question im still thinking about is if apple is really going to be releasing a machine like this hopefully by christmas...cause I dunno how much longer I can deal with windows...

sam10685
Jul 27, 2006, 10:26 PM
("coming in the spring" would mean spring-2007, since we're in summer 2006 right now. "next spring" means the one after that - spring-2008.)

"next spring" is the next spring. it is summer 2006 right now so "next spring" would be spring 2007. spring 2008 would be "in twenty months."

Multimedia
Jul 27, 2006, 11:21 PM
I have been waiting till I have enough cash to finally make the switch over to Apple and I should have enough come around Aug. 7th. My dilemma is that I just don't want to buy a regular computer but rather a bamf (ahhh dane cook) 8 core computer. I know I dont need it, I know I shouldnt be wasting my money on it, but I think ill figure out a way to justify me buying such a crazy computer. But the real question im still thinking about is if apple is really going to be releasing a machine like this hopefully by christmas...cause I dunno how much longer I can deal with windows...8 cores won't be until after MacWorld SF 2007. It'll first be done with two Clovertowns, later with one Harpertown in the Woodcrest family. A pair of Harpertowns will be used to deliver 16 cores in one Mac or PC. In the Conroe family 8 cores will first be delivered with one Yorkfield.

Here's the Road Map (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_Microarchitecture). Scroll down to see the processor names & known specs in each series.

aswitcher
Jul 27, 2006, 11:24 PM
8 cores won't be until after MacWorld SF 2007. It'll first be done with two Clovertowns, later with two Yorkfields.


Cores will be the new GHz race :)

Macinposh
Jul 28, 2006, 05:46 AM
I think it means 8 Cores not 16. I think each Clovertown will use two of those sockets. Or four Woodies would equal 8 cores.

My cautious opinion. :) I wish you were right, but i doubt it.




That is what i was thinking about too.

But.

As AMD is apparently preparing a 4 socket desktop mobo (Q1 07?) to compete with intel, i have strong suspicion that intel is looking at that option too.


I dont know how economically viable that option is, or how difficult it is to implement tech wise (the more wise can educate me on this one...) but it could be one approach to keep the game up and running.


As you have multiple socket mobos on the server side,how difficult would it be to bring them to the desktop side? Anyone?

weldon
Jul 28, 2006, 11:46 AM
"next spring" is the next spring. it is summer 2006 right now so "next spring" would be spring 2007. spring 2008 would be "in twenty months."
This is so much more clear in Russian, where you would say "in the spring to mean Spring 2007" and "through (a) spring to mean Spring 2008." Oh well.

Looking forward to massively-multi-core-Macs no matter which Spring they ship in.

patrick0brien
Jul 28, 2006, 11:49 AM
This is so much more clear in Russian...

My thinking exactly.

ampd
Jul 29, 2006, 11:54 AM
i've been reading around, and i think i will be purchasing the new mac pro if and when it is released, however, being someone who likes to keep his technology top of the line, i was wondering if the new intel chips will be the same socket as the assumed woodcrest in the mac pro. I would like to be able to switch em' out and upgrade at a later time.

Multimedia
Jul 29, 2006, 07:27 PM
i've been reading around, and i think i will be purchasing the new mac pro if and when it is released, however, being someone who likes to keep his technology top of the line, i was wondering if the new intel chips will be the same socket as the assumed woodcrest in the mac pro. I would like to be able to switch em' out and upgrade at a later time.I wouldn't count on it.

shawmanus
Jul 29, 2006, 10:51 PM
I wouldn't count on it.

Clovertown would definately work in bensley platform. So one could potentially replace woodcrest with clovertown. I cant see Apple soldering chips in Mac Pros or xServers.



http://www.intel.com/technology/architecture/coremicro/

ampd
Jul 29, 2006, 10:56 PM
Well, since I can't see myself waiting till January for a mac, I think ill manage with 2 woodcrests...but just thinking about 8 cores gets me all excited. Such a tough dilemma... Ill have to think some more and see what comes out soon and then gauge how long ill be able to resist whipping out my credit card. I wonder if people will jump on the 2 woodcrests right away knowing that 8 is around the corner... I know its giving me problems...

Renovatio
Jul 29, 2006, 11:17 PM
Well, since I can't see myself waiting till January for a mac, I think ill manage with 2 woodcrests...but just thinking about 8 cores gets me all excited. Such a tough dilemma... Ill have to think some more and see what comes out soon and then gauge how long ill be able to resist whipping out my credit card. I wonder if people will jump on the 2 woodcrests right away knowing that 8 is around the corner... I know its giving me problems...

Same here ... same here. However, upgrading from a rev. A 17"PB I think I will be plenty blown away by the speed of these things and have thus decided not to put it off but to buy when the Intel Mac Pro's are released. I'll be listening to the keynote ready to place my order the instant those things are announced. I am so excited! :D

Multimedia
Jul 29, 2006, 11:17 PM
Clovertown would definately work in bensley platform. So one could potentially replace woodcrest with clovertown. I cant see Apple soldering chips in Mac Pros or xServers.

http://www.intel.com/technology/architecture/coremicro/Sure it'll work on that platform. But I doubt the sockets will be the same for Clovertown that are for Woodcrest.

ampd
Jul 30, 2006, 10:14 AM
I know its a stretch, but I would have to hope that since clovertown is 2 woodcrests that just maybe they will be the same socket. But I would have to agree that it is highly unlikely

ampd
Jul 30, 2006, 01:56 PM
Is it hard to get your hands on an apple motherboard used in their computers. Im always interested in upgrading my computer and if I get get the individual apple parts that would be amazing.

mwswami
Jul 31, 2006, 10:28 AM
Sure it'll work on that platform. But I doubt the sockets will be the same for Clovertown that are for Woodcrest.

Clovertown has to use the same packaging as Woodcrest (LGA 771) for it to work with the Bensley platform.

mwswami
Jul 31, 2006, 10:33 AM
Clovertown would definately work in bensley platform. So one could potentially replace woodcrest with clovertown. I cant see Apple soldering chips in Mac Pros or xServers.



http://www.intel.com/technology/architecture/coremicro/
The problem of replacing Woodcrests with Clovertowns is NOT a technical one. It will work. The problem is going to be a financial one. Clovertown is going to be introduced at the top of the Xeon line and will probably start well over a $1000.

ampd
Jul 31, 2006, 02:42 PM
Well if thats true then I guess ill just have to suffice with having 4 cores rather than 8... That top end mac is sure gonna cost a pretty penny when it hopefully comes out in January... $2000+ on the processors alone...I think ill order the dual woodies and be happy with my first mac...Maybe once the price comes down on the chips ill drop em in but thats if it is even possible...we really dont know just yet...I hope...