PDA

View Full Version : Merom/Core 2 Duo (Mobile) Now Shipping?


Pages : [1] 2

MacRumors
Jul 21, 2006, 01:50 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Intel is shipping Core 2 Duo Mobile chips (Merom) to manufacturers, according to recent Intel financial report (http://download.intel.com/intel/finance/earnings/IntelQ22006earningsfoils.pdf). A recent AppleInsider story (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1890) had indicated that Intel may have plans to move up Merom's formal launch to next Monday, July 23rd, to coincide with the Core 2 Duo Desktop variant ("Conroe") launch. Despite the move, availablility at the time was still not expected until August.

Merom is expected to replace Core Duo "Yonah" CPUs found in the MacBook Pro. Apple could use the 2.0, 2.16, or 2.33 GHz variants of Merom in its MacBook Pro line, each of which sport 4 MB of L2 Cache (up from 2 MB in current MacBook Pros) and have a 667 MHz frontside bus.

hyperpasta
Jul 21, 2006, 01:53 PM
Niice. I would assume that they forgo using the 2.0 GHz chip though. Right now, their lineup is pretty solid using two different speeds. Unless the modify the structure of the lineup (as in lower prices), I think it would make sense.

WildCowboy
Jul 21, 2006, 01:54 PM
This definitely increases the chances of Apple introducing new MBPs at WWDC. Could be a huge event!

My PB is only a year and half old, but Merom-based MBPs are looking awfully tempting...

PlaceofDis
Jul 21, 2006, 01:55 PM
up the chips in the MBPs and up the speeds in the MBs?

seems likely to me.

Eidorian
Jul 21, 2006, 01:55 PM
I'm ready to pay Apple. Something under $1500 please. :cool:

AlBDamned
Jul 21, 2006, 01:57 PM
up the chips in the MBPs and up the speeds in the MBs?

seems likely to me.

Yup, possibly the cheap 2.0GHz Yonah's across the board in MacBooks and the 2.16 and 2.33 Merom's in the MBP. Plus a new enclosure at WWDC for MBP.

Get saving Al!

mcarnes
Jul 21, 2006, 02:01 PM
Sheesh. This is a 180 from waiting for G5 updates.

Eidorian
Jul 21, 2006, 02:03 PM
Sheesh. This is a 180 from waiting for G5 updates.They're much more predictable with Intel's roadmap.

bradc
Jul 21, 2006, 02:04 PM
^^^^No kidding eh? Intel is on the move this year! Releasing products left/right&centre!

This WWDC will either be amazing or a total letdown?

Core Trio
Jul 21, 2006, 02:04 PM
Noooo....must...resist urges to buy...new MBP's

Just have to keep reminding myself I cant afford these things right now..

Eidorian
Jul 21, 2006, 02:05 PM
^^^^No kidding eh? Intel is on the move this year! Releasing products left/right&centre!

This WWDC will either be amazing or a total letdown?I doubt we'll see Core 2 Duo machines next Tuesday, but it's possible. :rolleyes:

Otherwise I expect a WWDC rollout.

bigbossbmb
Jul 21, 2006, 02:05 PM
great news, but i think a few will vote it negative because they like to whine...

i may need to bump up my timeline for upgrading my dying 12"

andiwm2003
Jul 21, 2006, 02:07 PM
i thought the merom chips have the same pricing as the yonah 5 or 6 month ago. that would mean apple could switch to all merom (MB, mini, MBP). especially since they are compared to dell & co. in the windows world you are almost forced to use the better chip (merom) because the competition is fierce.

Nuc
Jul 21, 2006, 02:08 PM
It would be nice if they released the MBP before WWDC so that I can take advantage of the tax free holiday and the student discount here in NC...

Nuc

Eidorian
Jul 21, 2006, 02:08 PM
i thought the merom chips have the same pricing as the yonah 5 or 6 month ago. that would mean apple could switch to all merom (MB, mini, MBP). especially since they are compared to dell & co. in the windows world you are almost forced to use the better chip (merom) because the competition is fierce.Merom is launching with Yonah's original pricing. Yonah is going to get another price drop later this year.

bigandy
Jul 21, 2006, 02:09 PM
oh dear, i seem to be drooling....

macnews
Jul 21, 2006, 02:10 PM
Glad I didn't decide to buy a new MBP in June! I have plans to wait until after WWDC, but I think we might see a change in processor before than. I don't see moving to a newer Intel chip as being a "big" developer issue.

JackSYi
Jul 21, 2006, 02:17 PM
I really should of waited. *sigh

Poudresteve
Jul 21, 2006, 02:17 PM
This is not what I needed to maintain a productive Friday afternoon! My excitement level was already at "11" with new Mac Pro's coming out. I'll have to see what else I can cut out of the ol' budget to get all of these new toys... :D

toneloco2881
Jul 21, 2006, 02:19 PM
Glad I didn't decide to buy a new MBP in June! I have plans to wait until after WWDC, but I think we might see a change in processor before than. I don't see moving to a newer Intel chip as being a "big" developer issue.
Well, when you couple the fact it's an entirely new architecture for intel, along with being 64-bit, it might tie in nicely at the developer conference. I expect Leopard to evolve into a full 64-bit OS so these chips can would make for a great entrance at WWDC...IMO.

Slipmip
Jul 21, 2006, 02:19 PM
This may be a dumb question, but why would apple just use the new chips in mbp's and not the mb? Dosn't seem to make sense. As soon as core 2 merom comes out every pc notebook will have it. Price wouldn't be an issue cause merom is same price as yonah, correct?

QCassidy352
Jul 21, 2006, 02:19 PM
I doubt we'll see Core 2 Duo machines next Tuesday, but it's possible. :rolleyes:

Otherwise I expect a WWDC rollout.

I don't think we'll see these at WWDC unless there are other substantial changes. Going from a Yonah to a Merom chip may be great news, but it's hardly something Steve can crow about on stage. "Here's the new macbook pro... it looks and functions exactly like the old one, but 20% faster. Um, yeah. You already know all about the macbook pro, so there's really nothing else for me to say, is there?"

I expect we will see mac pros and leopard demo'ed at WWDC, plus the usual talk about how well apple is doing, etc. Maybe some talk about pro apps because it's a developer's conference. MAYBE a new ipod (nano) just because it's such big news, even tho it's not really for developers.

But as far as new MBPs go, I'd expect a quiet announcement some tuesday in the relatively near future.

Eidorian
Jul 21, 2006, 02:20 PM
This may be a dumb question, but why would apple just use the new chips in mbp's and not the mb? Dosn't seem to make sense. As soon as core 2 merom comes out every pc notebook will have it. Price wouldn't be an issue cause merom is same price as yonah, correct?The MBP is a PRO model. They can keep Yonah (Which is fast enough mind you) and still speed bump it/lower the price some more.

I don't think we'll see these at WWDC unless there are other substantial changes. Going from a Yonah to a Merom chip may be great news, but it's hardly something Steve can crow about on stage. "Here's the new macbook pro... it looks and functions exactly like the old one, but 20% faster. Um, yeah. You already know all about the macbook pro, so there's really nothing else for me to say, is there?"

I expect we will see mac pros and leopard demo'ed at WWDC, plus the usual talk about how well apple is doing, etc. Maybe some talk about pro apps because it's a developer's conference. MAYBE a new ipod (nano) just because it's such big news, even tho it's not really for developers.

But as far as new MBPs go, I'd expect a quiet announcement some tuesday in the relatively near future.So new iMacs next Tuesday? :eek:

I do agree that the new Pro towers need a much more proper launch while the other lines can just get a shiny new Core 2 Duo logo on their site and an update to Apple's Intel page.

I posted this very early on:

Yesterday, 09:36 PM #1
Apple Corps
macrumors regular

Location: Fresno, California
Core 2 Duo
Intel presentation slide confirms that the pc portable version of the Core 2 Duo is NOW SHIPPING - fully 1 month ahead of schedule.

Is that the Merom? What would that say about WWDC announcements :-)

READ SLIDE #3 http://download.intel.com/intel/fina...ningsfoils.pdf

Oh YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
Quad G5 / 4.5 GB / Two 20" ACD
Mac mini Core Duo 1.66 / 2 GB
17" iMac FP 1.25
15" TiPB 400 / 1 GB
Indigo Clamshell 366
Canon 20D / Canon i9900

Do you guys not give at least a tag line credit :-)Your copy pasta didn't work completely.

http://download.intel.com/intel/finance/earnings/IntelQ22006earningsfoils.pdf

Apple Corps
Jul 21, 2006, 02:20 PM
I posted this very early on:

Yesterday, 09:36 PM #1
Apple Corps
macrumors regular

Location: Fresno, California
Core 2 Duo
Intel presentation slide confirms that the pc portable version of the Core 2 Duo is NOW SHIPPING - fully 1 month ahead of schedule.

Is that the Merom? What would that say about WWDC announcements :-)

READ SLIDE #3 http://download.intel.com/intel/fina...ningsfoils.pdf

Oh YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
Quad G5 / 4.5 GB / Two 20" ACD
Mac mini Core Duo 1.66 / 2 GB
17" iMac FP 1.25
15" TiPB 400 / 1 GB
Indigo Clamshell 366
Canon 20D / Canon i9900

Do you guys not give at least a tag line credit :-)

dongmin
Jul 21, 2006, 02:26 PM
It'll be quite an action-packed WWDC, if all these rumors pan out--which of course they wont.

-Leopard preview
-Mac Pros
-new iPod Nanos
-true video iPods
-iTMS movie downloads
-MacBook Pros with Meroms

Crazy. I'm betting against the consumer-related announcements. And hoping for MBPs with new enclosure and features.

jonharris200
Jul 21, 2006, 02:28 PM
At this rate, I'll never buy another Mac for fear it'll be out of date tomorrow! :eek:

brepublican
Jul 21, 2006, 02:32 PM
Sheesh. This is a 180 from waiting for G5 updates.
One word: Roadmap.

heisetax
Jul 21, 2006, 02:35 PM
Sheesh. This is a 180 from waiting for G5 updates.


To date we have not seen Apple update any of their Intel products. So it may not be any different. The pressure will be on Apple with new processors coming out all of the time. Steve Jobs keps Apple from doing what you would exspect much of the time.

Bill the TaxMan

SC68Cal
Jul 21, 2006, 02:37 PM
Noooo....must...resist urges to buy...new MBP's

Just have to keep reminding myself I cant afford these things right now..

Oh, you can afford it.... it's just that you'll be eating ramen for quite a while.

Eidorian
Jul 21, 2006, 02:38 PM
To date we have not seen Apple update any of their Intel products. So it may not be any different. The pressure will be on Apple with new processors coming out all of the time. Steve Jobs keps Apple from doing what you would exspect much of the time.

Bill the TaxManThe MacBook Pro was speed bumped, twice.

Stridder44
Jul 21, 2006, 02:40 PM
This may be a dumb question, but why would apple just use the new chips in mbp's and not the mb? Dosn't seem to make sense. As soon as core 2 merom comes out every pc notebook will have it. Price wouldn't be an issue cause merom is same price as yonah, correct?


I 2nd this.

Why not update them too? I understand that the MBP is PRO but still. What would the MB's be getting then as far as an update at some point?

WildCowboy
Jul 21, 2006, 02:42 PM
I 3rd this.

Why not update them too? I understand that the MBP is PRO but still. What would the MB's be getting then as far as an update at some point?

If they continue to use Yonah, it differentiates the lines better and either allows Apple to reap a bigger profit as Yonah prices drop or they can pass that savings along to the consumer. (Or they can use the money saved on Yonah chips to up the standard RAM configuration to 1 GB...)

zac4mac
Jul 21, 2006, 02:42 PM
On one hand I'm bummed that new chips are hitting the street so quickly, and my expensive(Read - still paying for it) MBP is no longer top-line. It's still as blindingly fast as it was day1 and winter's just around the corner. Got my lap heater and it'll be paid for by then.

QCassidy352
Jul 21, 2006, 02:45 PM
I 2nd this.

Why not update them too? I understand that the MBP is PRO but still. What would the MB's be getting then as far as an update at some point?

oh, the MB will get Merom, probably just not for a little while. The MBP has been shipping for 6 months, the MB for only 2. The MBP looks a little weak on price/performance compared to similar PC laptops; the MB holds up very well in price/performance comparisons. The MB is still selling so well apple can hardly keep the white models in stock, whereas demand for the MBP is much lower.

So rest assured, the MB will see Merom, but the MBP will see it first. Probably soon. :)

ITASOR
Jul 21, 2006, 02:47 PM
With the more frequent processor changes/speed upgrades that goes along with switching to Intel, what is Apple going to do with all the "left overs" of old versions of products?

teme
Jul 21, 2006, 02:48 PM
About MacBook... when Merom is released, Yonah's price will drop. That would help Apple to make a

Eidorian
Jul 21, 2006, 02:48 PM
With the more frequent processor changes/speed upgrades that goes along with switching to Intel, what is Apple going to do with all the "left overs" of old versions of products?I really hope they do a budget line for awhile. Somewhat like the iMac G3 after the G4 was launched.

AvSRoCkCO1067
Jul 21, 2006, 02:51 PM
This may be a dumb question, but why would apple just use the new chips in mbp's and not the mb? Dosn't seem to make sense. As soon as core 2 merom comes out every pc notebook will have it. Price wouldn't be an issue cause merom is same price as yonah, correct?

Every PC Notebook? Eesh most of the notebooks my friends aren't purchasing (that aren't Macbooks - which is by far in the majority) have either AMD chips, P4 chips, or Pentium Mobile chips...

Apple has by far adopted Intel's new chips the fastest out of any other computer manufacturer I know - and hopefully they'll continue to do the same as Core 2 Duo chips are unveiled.

andiwm2003
Jul 21, 2006, 02:52 PM
I do agree that the new Pro towers need a much more proper launch while the other lines can just get a shiny new Core 2 Duo logo on their site and an update to Apple's Intel page.

Your copy pasta didn't work completely.

http://download.intel.com/intel/finance/earnings/IntelQ22006earningsfoils.pdf


wow, most importantly on slide 3 they say that they launched the 965 chipset. that means they can switch to the 965 integrated GPU across the board for consumer macs. that would certainly help the heat issues, make the macs cheaper and less complicated to design for apple. standard parts and boards allow for even faster updates. good news.

teme
Jul 21, 2006, 02:53 PM
About MacBook... when Merom is released, Yonah's price will drop. This would help Apple to make a $999 MacBook with 2.0GHz Core Duo. The more expensive model could be a $1299 Macbook with 2.0GHz Core 2 Duo.

toneloco2881
Jul 21, 2006, 02:54 PM
With the more frequent processor changes/speed upgrades that goes along with switching to Intel, what is Apple going to do with all the "left overs" of old versions of products?
Hopefully they hired a skilled inventory manager who is adept at these kind of matters. Intels roadmap so far has been pretty solid so they can just reduce manufacturing upon the imminent release of a new product. Any leftovers can be sold as refurbs?

In the most recent Financial call, Apple aid they didn't even have enough chips for MacBooks to keep up with demand. With marketshare seemingly on the rise , hopefully surplus won't be of overly concern

j26
Jul 21, 2006, 02:54 PM
And not to plot my "But I really need a new computer, darling" onslaught.

QCassidy352
Jul 21, 2006, 02:54 PM
wow, most importantly on slide 3 they say that they launched the 965 chipset. that means they can switch to the 965 integrated GPU across the board for consumer macs. that would certainly help the heat issues, make the macs cheaper and less complicated to design for apple. standard parts and boards allow for even faster updates. good news.

mmm... GMA965. :D That should be a very nice improvement over the 950!

Shadow
Jul 21, 2006, 02:55 PM
Noo...! My MacBook is out of date before its even arrived :eek:!!!!!!

Slipmip
Jul 21, 2006, 02:59 PM
Every PC Notebook? Eesh most of the notebooks my friends aren't purchasing (that aren't Macbooks - which is by far in the majority) have either AMD chips, P4 chips, or Pentium Mobile chips...

Apple has by far adopted Intel's new chips the fastest out of any other computer manufacturer I know - and hopefully they'll continue to do the same as Core 2 Duo chips are unveiled.

But did those notebooks cost 1200 bucks

macaddict06
Jul 21, 2006, 03:00 PM
Noo...! My MacBook is out of date before its even arrived :eek:!!!!!!

Well, no it's not.
1) it is just as fast now as it will be when you get it (read: speed won't decline)
2) As a computer owner, you know something better is coming. It's just like buying a car - buy for what you need now, worry about upgrading when the time comes
3) The MacBook won't see an upgrade for a few months - maybe a speed bump in September, but otherwise, I wouldn't expect Core2Duo in it by maybe December or MWSF '07. Till then, your MB will be perfectly fine.

vaxt
Jul 21, 2006, 03:01 PM
G5 PowerBooks on Tuesday!

extraextra
Jul 21, 2006, 03:02 PM
Now all the MBP's need are new enclosures, and I'm sold!


MB's aren't going to get Merom so soon because they've only been out for a little while (as opposed to the MBP's) and I think there needs to be a bigger differentiation between the MB's and MBP's.

danr_97070
Jul 21, 2006, 03:05 PM
This definitely increases the chances of Apple introducing new MBPs at WWDC. Could be a huge event!

My PB is only a year and half old, but Merom-based MBPs are looking awfully tempting...

Here are my predictions for WWDC; I think it will be an amazing event!

* Quad core Woodcrest-based PowerMac. Overclocked with Intel's new
liquid cooling system (http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/295).

* Video iPod update; widescreen iPod with virtual controls.

* Compiler optimizations to take full advantage of multi-core processors.

* Processor updates for the MacBook Pro's (updated to Merom) with
associated heat/power reduction.

* More applications available as Universal binaries.

* Application updates:

+ Boot camp.
+ iWork with spreadsheet.
+ OS X (Leopard, Finder update, iTunes, etc.)

* New Apple applications (e.g., simple spreadsheet added to iWork).

* Demo of Parallels Workstation on new hardware (fastest Windows box on
the planet).

* Demo/mention of Nike + iPod sport kit.

* Higher capacity Nanos.

Long shots:

* Blu-ray drives.

* Cell phone.

* Cell phone with video conferencing capabilities.

* Windows applications without the need for emulation.

* Games.

* Media center box with HD downloads.

milo
Jul 21, 2006, 03:05 PM
This WWDC will either be amazing or a total letdown?

Or for the mac zealots with absolutely no perspective and impossible expectations...both!

-x-
Jul 21, 2006, 03:06 PM
Now all the MBP's need are new enclosures, and I'm sold!


MB's aren't going to get Merom so soon because they've only been out for a little while (as opposed to the MBP's) and I think there needs to be a bigger differentiation between the MB's and MBP's.

Geez!!! The Intel Imac has been out since what Janurary? Should the Imac not be the next to upgrade? Will it go with Conroe or Meron? Maybe a better videocard?

andiwm2003
Jul 21, 2006, 03:06 PM
.........................................3) The MacBook won't see an upgrade for a few months - maybe a speed bump in September, but otherwise, I wouldn't expect Core2Duo in it by maybe December or MWSF '07. Till then, your MB will be perfectly fine.

the macbook was released mid may 06. so i would expect some update in october given the fast processor updates.

certainly a good time for mac users.:)

WildCowboy
Jul 21, 2006, 03:08 PM
Here are my predictions for WWDC; I think it will be an amazing event!

* Quad core Woodcrest-based PowerMac. Overclocked with Intel's new
liquid cooling system (http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/295).

* Video iPod update; widescreen iPod with virtual controls.

* Compiler optimizations to take full advantage of multi-core processors.

* Processor updates for the MacBook Pro's (updated to Merom) with
associated heat/power reduction.

* More applications available as Universal binaries.

* Application updates:

+ Boot camp.
+ iWork with spreadsheet.
+ OS X (Leopard, Finder update, iTunes, etc.)

* New Apple applications (e.g., simple spreadsheet added to iWork).

* Demo of Parallels Workstation on new hardware (fastest Windows box on
the planet).

* Demo/mention of Nike + iPod sport kit.

* Higher capacity Nanos.



Good luck with all that...

No video iPod or nano...those are consumer products. No Leopard...preview, yes; release, no. No iWork...that comes out every January at MWSF.

Sam*
Jul 21, 2006, 03:08 PM
i think the macbook should get the chips with 2 MB of shared L2 cache,

and the pro's get the chips with 4 MB of shared L2 cache

There will be then a difference between the two models (is having 4mb of shared L2 cache a lot better than 2mb? i have no idea but i presume it is)

or perhaps just let the blackbook have the 2.0ghz chip with 4mb of shared l2 cache to compensate for them charging for colour

Mac Fly (film)
Jul 21, 2006, 03:08 PM
the macbook was released mid may 06. so i would expect some update in october given the fast processor updates.

certainly a good time for mac users.:)
For sure, they might even announce something at WWDC?

andiwm2003
Jul 21, 2006, 03:12 PM
i think the macbook should get the chips with 2 MB of shared L2 cache,

and the pro's get the chips with 4 MB of shared L2 cache

There will be then a difference between the two models (is having 4mb of shared L2 cache a lot better than 2mb? i have no idea but i presume it is)

or perhaps just let the blackbook have the 2.0ghz chip with 4mb of shared l2 cache to compensate for them charging for colour

some review of the core2duo (don't remeber the site but it was very reputable) showed that with current software the 4MB cache gives you only 5-7% over the 2MB cache. the 2MB cache chips are much cheaper so that would be a good alternative for the macbooks. i'd buy one.

BruinJohn
Jul 21, 2006, 03:12 PM
Well, since WWDC has been bumped from the usual June day, we all know something is coming. I kinda am hoping for a 13" MBP. They could introduce the 13" MBP along with bumped up 15" and 17" ones. Then, they could intro the MacPro. It would be one WWDC. Maybe they'll deliver something for the Paris Expo too. Maybe new iPods. They are trying to clear out the current ones with the Edu incentive of buy a mac, get a free nano. So, maybe a new nano is in the works. I can't wait. I won't be buying anything for a couple more years, but I love hearing about Apple stuff.

spriter
Jul 21, 2006, 03:15 PM
G5 PowerBooks on Tuesday!

:eek: :D

I think MacBooks will get Merom in their second revision. Either way, I'm liking Intel's relentless surge.

macnews
Jul 21, 2006, 03:17 PM
Well, when you couple the fact it's an entirely new architecture for intel, along with being 64-bit, it might tie in nicely at the developer conference. I expect Leopard to evolve into a full 64-bit OS so these chips can would make for a great entrance at WWDC...IMO.

I agree, 64 bit would be developer worthy, but why wait to introduce a new chip until then? Picture this - release new MBP and iMacs with the new chip before WWDC. At WWDC you annouce and showcase the OS, not the hardware, and at the end introduce a new desktop model and then say "all our pro line of computers and even the top consumer line support 64 bit NOW". Far more impact IMHO.

BlizzardBomb
Jul 21, 2006, 03:18 PM
I hope people don't get their hopes up, then start posting negative threads all over the place when not all the rumors come true at WWDC.

Unlikely - New iPods, Mini and MacBook
Not sure - New iMac, MacBook Pro
Likely - ACD update or price slash.
Highly likely - New Power Mac called Mac Pro.

tivoboy
Jul 21, 2006, 03:18 PM
I do wish they would update the macbooks, so Ican BUY ONE!

kenstee
Jul 21, 2006, 03:19 PM
I'll get a MBP once Apple or someone else figures out how to make them work on an air flight. There is no Empower solution and the draw of 85w exceeds the juice (75w) that the seatside powerports provide. It's amazing this is even an issue in a "pro" line of portables - let alone from Apple. No 3rd party solutions solve this isssue.

wangagat
Jul 21, 2006, 03:24 PM
something to remember about product update cycles:

iSight iMac G5 came out in October '05, Intel iMac came out just 3 months later... in January '06.

just thought I should remind everyone.

BlizzardBomb
Jul 21, 2006, 03:25 PM
something to remember about product update cycles:

iSight iMac G5 came out in October '05, Intel iMac came out just 3 months later... in January '06.

just thought I should remind everyone.

Remind us about what? Please be a little less cryptic because some people are tired here :p

milo
Jul 21, 2006, 03:26 PM
This may be a dumb question, but why would apple just use the new chips in mbp's and not the mb? Dosn't seem to make sense. As soon as core 2 merom comes out every pc notebook will have it. Price wouldn't be an issue cause merom is same price as yonah, correct?

Because yonah will be cheaper. Yonah prices will drop again when merom ships.

And "every PC notebook" will most certainly NOT have merom. Cheaper PC laptops will still have yonah.

To date we have not seen Apple update any of their Intel products. So it may not be any different. The pressure will be on Apple with new processors coming out all of the time. Steve Jobs keps Apple from doing what you would exspect much of the time.

They speed bumped the MBP before it shipped, didn't they also do a minor update when the 17 shipped?

With the more frequent processor changes/speed upgrades that goes along with switching to Intel, what is Apple going to do with all the "left overs" of old versions of products?

They can sell them at a discount. But there won't be many of these in most cases, since for example the MBP doesn't need any additional changes along with swapping in a merom chip. The imac and mini could take merom just by swapping a chip in a socket (so the user could even do it).

macaddict06
Jul 21, 2006, 03:31 PM
I'm thinking many people are going to be upset after WWDC because they didn't get what they wanted - there is too much expected here. WWDC is aimed at developers. The only reason they would roll out an iPod now instead of the norm of September is because they are putting games on it or making it a Ulta-portable. To rephrase it, there will be no iPod update at WWDC. New colors of tube socks? Maybe.

I agree with the other post about what is certain and what is not. However, I am not sure I see an update coming for the ACDs. They are hot, the Pro enclosure (G5 --> MacPro) is likely not to change, and they are selling well.

I think expecting Apple to dump everything they have been working on now is simply myopic. They will stagger releases as always, and no worries children, the Steve is a benevolent provider.

Gatorman
Jul 21, 2006, 03:31 PM
I'm just burnin' doin' the Merom Dance!

Sing it with me, now! :D

Regardless of what happens on the 7th, I'm ordering a MBP. Though, things look like they're shaping up for that! Apple would be nuts not to put that chip in the MBP now that it's shipping.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed! Can't wait....

wangagat
Jul 21, 2006, 03:35 PM
Remind us about what? Please be a little less cryptic because some people are tired here :p

lol sorry... just saying that products dont necessarily have to wait the 6 month grace period before bein upgraded.

iMac was drastically upgraded from G5 to Core Duo after just 3 months.

Could be the same with the current line-up.

deputy_doofy
Jul 21, 2006, 03:36 PM
Maybe I'm out in right field with this suggestion, but how about a further separation between the black Macbook and the white, other than color?

Macbooks (white) - Yonah and integrated graphics (960?)
Macbook (black) - Merom and the new integrated graphics (965???)

That would certainly justify the black's higher cost and would give it more of a punch to be that PB 12" replacement.

BlizzardBomb
Jul 21, 2006, 03:37 PM
lol sorry... just saying that products dont necessarily have to wait the 6 month grace period before bein upgraded.

iMac was drastically upgraded from G5 to Core Duo after just 3 months.

Could be the same with the current line-up.

Yup. But it works the other wey too, look at the ACDs and Power Macs.

QCassidy352
Jul 21, 2006, 03:39 PM
Here are my predictions for WWDC; I think it will be an amazing event!

It's posts like this that leave people disappointed after every keynote. When has apple EVER released that many things at once? WWDC will see the mac pro, a leopard demo, and maybe one other new product if we're lucky. Your expectations border on the absurd.

toneloco2881
Jul 21, 2006, 03:40 PM
I agree, 64 bit would be developer worthy, but why wait to introduce a new chip until then? Picture this - release new MBP and iMacs with the new chip before WWDC. At WWDC you annouce and showcase the OS, not the hardware, and at the end introduce a new desktop model and then say "all our pro line of computers and even the top consumer line support 64 bit NOW". Far more impact IMHO.
I don't think Apple would do a quiet release of a new MBP on their website, only to say "oh yeah......shipping in about a month". They'd rather just intro it at an event, and tell people your not going to be able to get their hands on it for a while.

Sort of like what they did at Macworld. Intel announcing a chip shipping, and actually being able to purchase a product with said chip inside, are two entirely different things. I seriously doubt anyone is going to be able to get their hands on a Merom-equipped notebook for at least a couple weeks, which happens to coincide with WWDC. Just imho....:)

SPUY767
Jul 21, 2006, 03:41 PM
Three words: Back to School.

shawnce
Jul 21, 2006, 03:45 PM
* Compiler optimizations to take full advantage of multi-core processors.

You don't know much about this topic do ya :p

macaddict06
Jul 21, 2006, 03:46 PM
Three words: Back to School.
One word: September.

MacBooks are not getting a big bump at WWDC. If anything, the website will post speed upgrades, but other than that, no.
iPods? Just no. They will come out in September, or else the September 17th due date for a free Nano would be dumb.

BlizzardBomb
Jul 21, 2006, 03:46 PM
Three words: Back to School.

Three more words: Worldwide Developer's Conference. Why would a back to school product be released at a developer's conference. It will have its own event or a silent release. And yes that was way more than three words. :p

daneoni
Jul 21, 2006, 03:50 PM
If there is so much as a hiss with the Merom MBPs then thats it no more Apple portables for me. Its straight to the Towers (iMac is a little too "white" for my taste)

Evangelion
Jul 21, 2006, 03:57 PM
some review of the core2duo (don't remeber the site but it was very reputable) showed that with current software the 4MB cache gives you only 5-7% over the 2MB cache. the 2MB cache chips are much cheaper so that would be a good alternative for the macbooks. i'd buy one.

there are other improvements besides more cache. core duo 2 has seriously beefed up vector-units, advanced memory prefetch and other goodies. iirc, it should be about 20% faster, clock for clock

NewbieNerd
Jul 21, 2006, 03:59 PM
there are other improvements besides more cache. core duo 2 has seriously beefed up vector-units, advanced memory prefetch and other goodies. iirc, it should be about 20% faster, clock for clock

He's not comparing 1's to 2's. 2's are being offered in 2MB and 4MB versions, and those are being compared.

technicolor
Jul 21, 2006, 04:01 PM
I think there needs to be a bigger differentiation between the MB's and MBP's.
I hope so.

Eidorian
Jul 21, 2006, 04:04 PM
wow, most importantly on slide 3 they say that they launched the 965 chipset. that means they can switch to the 965 integrated GPU across the board for consumer macs. that would certainly help the heat issues, make the macs cheaper and less complicated to design for apple. standard parts and boards allow for even faster updates. good news.Only one problem though. The scheduling for that release is quite messy. Santa Rosa is based on the G965 and won't launch until Q2 2007.

Demoman
Jul 21, 2006, 04:11 PM
It'll be quite an action-packed WWDC, if all these rumors pan out--which of course they wont.

-Leopard preview
-Mac Pros
-new iPod Nanos
-true video iPods
-iTMS movie downloads
-MacBook Pros with Meroms

Crazy. I'm betting against the consumer-related announcements. And hoping for MBPs with new enclosure and features.

I am hoping they are going to be showing off the new pro apps. In January there were hints of something revolutionary in the FCS. The sudden price whacking of Shake leads me to be hopeful that something is imminent.

jholzner
Jul 21, 2006, 04:20 PM
iPods? Just no. They will come out in September, or else the September 17th due date for a free Nano would be dumb.

Well, I guess Apple was pretty dumb last year when they annouced the Nano while the iPod mini promo was still going strong. The promo didn't change and the mini was only availabe to edu customers so they could finish up the promo.

September 7, 2005
Apple Introduces iPod nano

"Back to School Promo. College students — buy a qualifying Mac before September 25, 2005, and get a free iPod mini"

danr_97070
Jul 21, 2006, 04:25 PM
You don't know much about this topic do ya :p

This is the thing I was referring to; if I knew more about it, I'd be working for
Intel or Apple... I guess...

http://www.macosrumors.com/20060402B.php

BlizzardBomb
Jul 21, 2006, 04:28 PM
This is the thing I was referring to; if I knew more about it, I'd be working for
Intel or Apple... I guess...

http://www.macosrumors.com/20060402B.php

Just a hint, do NOT believe any of the rubbish from Mac OS Rumors. It is the World's worst Apple source.

Demoman
Jul 21, 2006, 04:29 PM
To date we have not seen Apple update any of their Intel products. So it may not be any different. The pressure will be on Apple with new processors coming out all of the time. Steve Jobs keps Apple from doing what you would exspect much of the time.

Bill the TaxMan

If Apple was to start upgrading existing Intel products before their entire product line was completely done, the rumors would be, "There must be problems with the < fill in the blank > conversion. Why would they already be on the 2nd revision of the Mini when the < fill in the blank > has not even been done."

There is no way to win the rumor war. So, staying with the original statement that the entire product line would be completed in 2006 is exactly what Apple should do, and probably is. Beyond that, it is anyone's guess how often they will offer product upgrades, or even how diverse the final product line will be. I also think Apple is excited about new opportunities, not feeling 'pressure'.

macaddict06
Jul 21, 2006, 04:31 PM
Well, I guess Apple was pretty dumb last year when they annouced the Nano while the iPod mini promo was still going strong. The promo didn't change and the mini was only availabe to edu customers so they could finish up the promo.

September 7, 2005
Apple Introduces iPod nano

"Back to School Promo. College students ó buy a qualifying Mac before September 25, 2005, and get a free iPod mini"

Point is, that was released in September. As in, not at WWDC, so the point is still the same.

p0intblank
Jul 21, 2006, 04:40 PM
This is awesome news! I can't wait to see what Apple releases at WWDC '06. :D

Collin973
Jul 21, 2006, 04:41 PM
Did any one notice that the 23rd is actually a sunday?

I didn't read through all of the posts, but monday is the 24th...

--CP

Shadow
Jul 21, 2006, 05:07 PM
Just a hint, do NOT believe any of the rubbish from Mac OS Rumors. It is the World's worst Apple source.
Agreed 100%. <Comic Book Guy voice>Worst. Website. Ever.</CBG voice>

ebuc
Jul 21, 2006, 05:16 PM
If Intel really can start shipping merom by early August (and we see another manufacturer or two ship such laptops), then WWDC would be a perfectly fine place to introduce new MacBook Pros. But I doubt they'll be ready that early.

Personally, I think its about time we have a major case revision. The aluminum PowerBooks have been out for almost three years (september '03 I believe). Don't get me wrong; current design is great: its functional and elegant, but change has to come eventually.

The iBooks got a big case revision when they moved into the Intel MacBook world, the MacBook-Pros-that-look-like-PowerBooks should, too.

meanmusic
Jul 21, 2006, 05:22 PM
If Intel really can start shipping merom by early August (and we see another manufacturer or two ship such laptops), then WWDC would be a perfectly fine place to introduce new MacBook Pros. But I doubt they'll be ready that early.


Intel has already started shipping Merom. According to Intel retail products should be arriving at the end of July.

xPismo
Jul 21, 2006, 05:24 PM
If Intel really can start shipping merom by early August...WWDC would be a perfectly fine place to introduce new MacBook Pros. But I doubt they'll be ready that early.

Personally, I think its about time we have a major case revision. The aluminum PowerBooks have been out for almost three years (september '03 I believe). Don't get me wrong; current design is great: its functional and elegant, but change has to come eventually...

True, but I like my Alu book look - I'd have no problem with a intel powered version. Although marketing being marketing, I'd like to see something new fresh, and awesome too.

BTW ebuc, your sig is nearly exactly what I'm planning on having. Looking at a cube 450 for a home server, and I already have a 20gb iPod. Cubes, insanely great.

ebuc
Jul 21, 2006, 05:27 PM
Intel has already started shipping Merom. According to Intel retail products should be arriving at the end of July.

Has any laptop manufacturer announced a specific ship date for laptops with Merom? What was the turnaround time for the original MacBook Pros from the time Intel announced they were shipping the processors to the time Apple announced they were shipping the laptops?

poppe
Jul 21, 2006, 05:28 PM
[QUOTE=ebuc]

Personally, I think its about time we have a major case revision. The aluminum PowerBooks have been out for almost three years (september '03 I believe). Don't get me wrong; current design is great: its functional and elegant, but change has to come eventually.

[QUOTE]

Agreed!... But so far anytime that topic is brought up, you know what alot are saying? They say "why fix a good thing, if it isn't broken."

If they just refined it at least. You know added magnetic latch and some other stuff...

bradc
Jul 21, 2006, 05:35 PM
Or for the mac zealots with absolutely no perspective and impossible expectations...both!


Hahaha, you said it! Some people are never satisfied:(

ebuc
Jul 21, 2006, 05:40 PM
True, but I like my Alu book look - I'd have no problem with a intel powered version. Although marketing being marketing, I'd like to see something new fresh, and awesome too.

BTW ebuc, your sig is nearly exactly what I'm planning on having. Looking at a cube 450 for a home server, and I already have a 20gb iPod. Cubes, insanely great.

<Apple Font>
The All New
Superfast
Doubly-Awesome
Blogging (wtf)
MacBook Pro
A New Look for the Newest Laptop from Apple
</AF>

(Cubes are the greatest. Put a radeon 9000 in there if you can. Mine needs a new hard drive right now, but its been going strong for over 5 years. And, truth be told, this isn't the original hard drive, so I can't really blame Apple!)

solvs
Jul 21, 2006, 05:57 PM
(iMac is a little too "white" for my taste)
Racist. :p

Kidding. I'm think they'll go with a high end black model eventually. Maybe give it a better video card or something to justify another hundred bucks or so. I'm hoping they do the same with the MacBooks. Maybe a new lowend pro, or a high end nonpro with a built-in video card. That would justify a $1500 purchase over a $1000 one to me.

iJawn108
Jul 21, 2006, 06:10 PM
I'm excited but... :( I kind of want to wait for the 800 Mhz FSB that will most likely come out next year. if it comes with a new case with the macbook styled keyboard ill snatch it up. :p

Tzu
Jul 21, 2006, 06:16 PM
Ohhhh BABY! Merom is all I'm waiting for before I get a new Pro. My old powerbook is just limping along... must.... hold out.... for new chipsets... arg!

bigrell486
Jul 21, 2006, 06:49 PM
Maybe I'm out in right field with this suggestion, but how about a further separation between the black Macbook and the white, other than color?

Macbooks (white) - Yonah and integrated graphics (960?)
Macbook (black) - Merom and the new integrated graphics (965???)

That would certainly justify the black's higher cost and would give it more of a punch to be that PB 12" replacement.

This makes perfect sense as Apple has already dub the Black Macbook the "Top of the Line" yet there isn't really a difference between it and the Midrange so by adding The new processor and graphics chip Apple would essentially create the Top of the Line MacBook

generik
Jul 21, 2006, 06:56 PM
I'm excited but... :( I kind of want to wait for the 800 Mhz FSB that will most likely come out next year. if it comes with a new case with the macbook styled keyboard ill snatch it up. :p

That is going to be a long wait, so you better get ready!

This makes perfect sense as Apple has already dub the Black Macbook the "Top of the Line" yet there isn't really a difference between it and the Midrange so by adding The new processor and graphics chip Apple would essentially create the Top of the Line MacBook

The price difference would be too small for Apple to do too much though, after all I'm pretty sure it does costs Apple a lot more to make a black casing.. plus with Core 2 chips being more expensive than Yonah...

shawnce
Jul 21, 2006, 07:17 PM
plus with Core 2 chips being more expensive than Yonah...

T2600 (Yonah @ 2.16GHz) currently goes for $423 (trays of 1000)
T2500 (Yonah @ 2.00GHz) currently goes for $294 (trays of 1000)
T2400 (Yonah @ 1.83GHz) currently goes for $241 (trays of 1000)

T7600 (Merom @ 2.33GHz) is reported to go for $637 (trays of 1000)
T7400 (Merom @ 2.16GHz) is reported to go for $423 (trays of 1000)
T7200 (Merom @ 2.00GHz) is reported to go for $294 (trays of 1000)

...in other words it looks like the Yonah is either being replaced whole sale or is going to see further price drops when the Merom comes out. Of course I am still not 100% convinced the reported pricing for Merom is correct.

iJawn108
Jul 21, 2006, 07:34 PM
That is going to be a long wait, so you better get ready!

I am. It's funny to me cause my current processor is only 700Mhz :p and my fsb is 200. :D and by then who knows it might have bluray.

Multimedia
Jul 21, 2006, 07:48 PM
up the chips in the MBPs and up the speeds in the MBs?

seems likely to me.Seems highly unlikely to me because above 2GHz, Merom's are way too expensive to go into MacBooks. But I would love to see 2GHz Meroms go into MacBooks sooner than later.

On the MBP front, we should see them go up to 2.16 and 2.33 GHz Meroms very soon.

EagerDragon
Jul 21, 2006, 07:55 PM
Don't get me wrong, I like to have the machines grow in power ever few months better than ever 12 to 18 months like we used to see before the switch.

However I wonder about the financials, how it will affect the inventories every time there is a new processor. Intel is competing for its life with AMD and we all get affected. But so do the manufactorers that have to time their productions so they don't end up with a lot of inventory with the old chip, If they wait too long to release improved machines then the competion gets all the good publicity and gets to be first. If too early, then have to discount a lot of inventory to move it.

Good news can also be bad news, but...... Bring it on, I like it, but watch the bottom line please.:o

louden
Jul 21, 2006, 08:07 PM
I'd like to see the merom with a new enclosure for the mbp. I like the magnetic latch, and I'd like to see something with a nicer screen and dedicated graphics.

That would look good for vista or macos.

macaddict06
Jul 21, 2006, 08:19 PM
Has any laptop manufacturer announced a specific ship date for laptops with Merom? What was the turnaround time for the original MacBook Pros from the time Intel announced they were shipping the processors to the time Apple announced they were shipping the laptops?

Yeah, CoreDuo was released at CES06, and then 3 days later (Friday release Mon/Tues Keynote, am I right?) Apple announced that it was in the iMac and the spanking new MBP. Turnaround was slow, about 5 weeks iirc. However, that was the first laptop to have an Intel processor in it, so that was the big part of the rush. Also, if the MacPro comes out, some prosumers will shift away from getting a laptop and just get a kickass Woodcrest-enabled MP. Overall, I should think that if it gets released at WWDC (MBP that is), it should be in our hot little hands by Sept 1. Any takers?

Macaddict06

iris_failsafe
Jul 21, 2006, 08:27 PM
It seems Intel is always on time or ahead g schedule, does anyone miss Motorola or IBM?

I don't

Unspeaked
Jul 21, 2006, 08:57 PM
People, they only released the MacBooks two months ago!

They're not gonna upgrade them in a matter of weeks.

It'll be the new chips in the Pro models, and AT BEST a slight speedbump to the Black MacBook (maybe the 2.16 GHz chip)...

heesey1010
Jul 21, 2006, 08:59 PM
I hope Meroms end up in MBs by the end of this year

And this is a little off-topic, but is it too late to speculate a release date for any other products? Only thing I can speculate is that something might be released in/around September, because the Mac + iPod rebate ends September 16th, and if anyone recalls last year, the Nano was intro'd in September.

I think it's too early for updated MBs, but I wish there'd be some. Either that, or cheaper MBPs with Merom.

Erasmus
Jul 21, 2006, 09:12 PM
Perhaps if I mention my wishes in every related thread, someone at apple will take note?

iMac Ultra: At least 2.4 Ghz Conroe, 512Mb ATI X1800, and a 23" Screen.

Macbook: I don't want Merom in it. I don't want a faster processor in it. I want a price drop!

I've said it before, I hardly think the iMac is unworthy of a WWDC appearance. In my opinion, it's close enough to a Professional machine. Albeit an inexpensive one in a compact enclosure.

Is there really any chance that the MBP's WON'T get an upgrade to 2.16/2.33 Meroms???

They can leave the faster Mac Minis, Macbooks and iPods for Paris Expo.

Don't care about iPods.

This is what Lord Erasmus wants. If he is not appeased, Steve himself will bear the brunt of my experiments into human nature!
(For all you Legends of Dune fans out there. For all who haven't read the BEST TRILOGY OF ALL TIME, that means dissection!)

nsjoker
Jul 21, 2006, 09:27 PM
now if apple can build a laptop that won't give me a first degree burn we're in business :cool:

coffey7
Jul 21, 2006, 09:32 PM
now if apple can build a laptop that won't give me a first degree burn we're in business :cool:

Tell me about it!

daneoni
Jul 21, 2006, 09:41 PM
now if apple can build a laptop that won't give me a first degree burn we're in business :cool:

As well as one that won't gimme a headache nor react with my body (http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=518047&tstart=0)

islanders
Jul 21, 2006, 10:00 PM
Can someone tell me the advantages of the Merom chip?

More Speed? Less Heat? Improved battery performance?

And Iíll tell you what will happen at MWDC. ;)

WildCowboy
Jul 21, 2006, 10:05 PM
Can someone tell me the advantages of the Merom chip?

More Speed? Less Heat? Improved battery performance?

http://guides.macrumors.com/Merom

Intel claims that it will have 20% more performance at the same clock speed when compared to the current Yonah processor.

Eidorian
Jul 21, 2006, 10:10 PM
http://guides.macrumors.com/MeromUh, thank you? :rolleyes:

xPismo
Jul 21, 2006, 10:25 PM
Regarding hot laptops:

Tell me about it!

Add a pro book that lasts ~5hours and I'd be one happy man. Lets hope Apple can crack the heat / battery / weight triangle of pain this time around.

islanders
Jul 21, 2006, 10:26 PM
Thanks for the links.

I donít see why a 20% increase in speed is going to rock the boat. Especially if itís in the MBP. So if it is ready for shipment I donít see any advantage in waiting for the MBP line to upgrade.

I guess Iíll have to do some research about the battery performance.

Noone knows what Steve Jobs will do, but I think he had been roper-doping long enough with the G3 and G4. What 6 years with the same G4? He needs to come out swinging while Apple still has a strong brand name from the iPod.

I hope to see some changes. The last 5 years have been so slow that it hasnít been worth keeping up with.

fastlane1588
Jul 21, 2006, 11:04 PM
so what exactly is rumored to be changed on the mbp, the new chip, a new case and a new graphics card? if so im really glad i decided to wait it out, i was getting kind of worried bout college coming up!

milozauckerman
Jul 21, 2006, 11:05 PM
Apple can't not update at least the top-end MacBooks. Dell & Co. will be putting Core 2 in comparably priced machines - $1299/1499 - as the price breaks down similarly to Core Duo chips.

Apple doesn't want switchers going "hmmm, I can get a MacBook for <x> or a Dell with a better newer processor for the same."

runninmac
Jul 21, 2006, 11:12 PM
Im 99.99999% sure they won't update the white MacBooks with Core 2 Duo. Why you ask? Well they doing the back to school promo which is already losing them enough cash with the nano rebate. They also still have a wait or 3-5 days for them. A wait since launch? I highly doubt they will update a product that has a waiting list for it. Milk it for all its worth. The BlackBook is another story though.

Chef Medeski
Jul 21, 2006, 11:40 PM
Apple can't not update at least the top-end MacBooks.
Wow, that only took 5 minutes for me to understand.

You mean Apple has to update.... you know that whole double negative thing

Snowy_River
Jul 22, 2006, 12:29 AM
...
The iBooks got a big case revision when they moved into the Intel MacBook world, the MacBook-Pros-that-look-like-PowerBooks should, too.

Just so long as they don't make the glossy screen standard on the MBP, like they did on the MB. I can't stand that glare ridden, reflective surface finish!

adrock
Jul 22, 2006, 12:55 AM
Monday is the 24th not the 23rd

Chuck
Jul 22, 2006, 01:17 AM
Geez!!! The Intel Imac has been out since what Janurary? Should the Imac not be the next to upgrade? Will it go with Conroe or Meron? Maybe a better videocard?

I'm with you -X-

Doesn't the iMac use the same intel chip as the MBP? Why all the hoohah about an impending MBP release, when it might also mean an upgrade for the iMac - which hasn't been bumped since it's announcement in Jan?

Now before I'm lambarsted because the iMac is not a 'pro' machine, I am a professional graphic designer and I am in the market for one.

Bring on the merom iMac! :cool:

Chuck.

solvs
Jul 22, 2006, 02:33 AM
Now before I'm lambarsted because the iMac is not a 'pro' machine, I am a professional graphic designer and I am in the market for one.
I was surprised that my iMac was as good as it was at doing Pro stuff, and it's a lowly G5. Just buy lots of RAM. Especially while you wait for Adobe to update to UBs.

-x-
Jul 22, 2006, 02:59 AM
I'm with you -X-

Doesn't the iMac use the same intel chip as the MBP? Why all the hoohah about an impending MBP release, when it might also mean an upgrade for the iMac - which hasn't been bumped since it's announcement in Jan?

Now before I'm lambarsted because the iMac is not a 'pro' machine, I am a professional graphic designer and I am in the market for one.

Bring on the merom iMac! :cool:

Chuck.

Well I have a 17" Intel Imac and would sell it in a heart beat for a merom conroe setup if a better video-card was involved. X1800 or something to that extent.

The clock speed alone from my 1.8ghz yonah to a 2.3ghz meron or a 2.4ghz conroe would be over 60% speed increase. That is not including the over 20% increase from architecture change. We would be talking about a 80% to 100% increase speed on most apps when you consider clock speed increase and architecture change. :eek:

Mind you it must have a videocard change as I am looking to never buy a pc gaming rig again. I currently have a A64 3000+ OCED at 2.4ghz with a x800xl and a gig of ram. If the Imac is twice as fast as my current gaming machine then I am sold. If not then Mac Pro would be the machine for me.

I no longer want to spend $1500 on a mac $1500 on a gaming pc. When I can get a faster mac at $2500 and at the same time dual-boot that machine and get a gaming rid simultaneously. Lower price all together and a faster machine.

Of course if the Imac has a better video-card then it I only need to spend $1600. :)

generik
Jul 22, 2006, 03:11 AM
Bring on the merom iMac! :cool:

Chuck.


Isn't the Conroe cheaper than the mobility line of chips? Plus they deliver a lot more performance too!

Silentwave
Jul 22, 2006, 03:36 AM
I'm with you -X-

Doesn't the iMac use the same intel chip as the MBP? Why all the hoohah about an impending MBP release, when it might also mean an upgrade for the iMac - which hasn't been bumped since it's announcement in Jan?

Now before I'm lambarsted because the iMac is not a 'pro' machine, I am a professional graphic designer and I am in the market for one.

Bring on the merom iMac! :cool:

Chuck.


There's actually been a bit of discussion about this for some time. The debate is whether or not Conroe will be in the iMac upgrade instead of Merom- the computer could probably handle it heatwise, and it would offer a better performance level: 2.4-2.67GHz with a faster FSB than merom.

My thinking is that if they don't go Conroe now, it'll happen when the 800MT/S FSB Meroms require the socket change next year, forcing a new logic board for the imac anyways.
I hope it comes sooner though, and with 4GB RAM capacity.

BlizzardBomb
Jul 22, 2006, 05:42 AM
Isn't the Conroe cheaper than the mobility line of chips? Plus they deliver a lot more performance too!

Yes and yes.

Erasmus
Jul 22, 2006, 05:49 AM
I suppose we are all relying on Apple to do what they do best: To give us what we want, to not skimp on performance regardless of cost, and to provide us with the best hardware in the world. Don't let us down.

svenas1
Jul 22, 2006, 06:13 AM
I don't think we'll see these at WWDC unless there are other substantial changes. Going from a Yonah to a Merom chip may be great news, but it's hardly something Steve can crow about on stage. "Here's the new macbook pro... it looks and functions exactly like the old one, but 20% faster. Um, yeah. You already know all about the macbook pro, so there's really nothing else for me to say, is there?"


Trust SJ to be able to say something amazing about that !! That's why he is CEO... he can make the smallest thing look like it's the coolest thing on earth. RDF at full swing...!

CJM
Jul 22, 2006, 06:49 AM
I'm with you -X-

Doesn't the iMac use the same intel chip as the MBP? Why all the hoohah about an impending MBP release, when it might also mean an upgrade for the iMac - which hasn't been bumped since it's announcement in Jan?

Now before I'm lambarsted because the iMac is not a 'pro' machine, I am a professional graphic designer and I am in the market for one.

Bring on the merom iMac! :cool:

Chuck.

/agreed.

I don't want to see laptop updates, which seems to me to be the most reported thing on Macrumors right now. Bring on the iMac!!!

MacSA
Jul 22, 2006, 07:42 AM
/agreed.

I don't want to see laptop updates, which seems to me to be the most reported thing on Macrumors right now. Bring on the iMac!!!

Don't forget the Mac Mini :D

xnu
Jul 22, 2006, 07:42 AM
DailyTech previously reported that according to IBM, yields on the Cell processors were extremely poor, and that most Cell processors would ship without all eight cores working. According to IBM, some PlayStation 3 units will have 7-core Cell processors and some with 8-core Cell processors.

what a difference using Intel chips have made. Who would have predicted that they would actually be shipping chips ahead of their own road map after the whole PowerPC painful journey.

Mac Fly (film)
Jul 22, 2006, 08:03 AM
I can't wait 'till WWCD :D

j26
Jul 22, 2006, 08:05 AM
Don't forget the Mac Mini :D

Surely they can't continue to justify a Core Solo.

islanders
Jul 22, 2006, 08:08 AM
Don't forget the Mac Mini :D


Itís not a stretch to assume all the lower end consumer level units will see upgrades as well.

iMac
MBP
MBB (black)
Mini


The Pro Mac is overdue, but the software isnít ready. Maybe keep a G5 in the works, for people who work and move on with the new Pro Macs.

If we donít see it all on Tuesday. What is the longest Apple can wait? And why would they choose to wait?

Fiveos22
Jul 22, 2006, 08:25 AM
Well this should mean that the NDA's for Merom are up, where are some benchmarks? I want to know why I almost waited until fall to get a laptop

(Merom was supposed to be the true "new" Intel mobile chip design, unlike the mix and match Yonah proc, but what does that mean as far as numbers are concerned?)

MacSA
Jul 22, 2006, 08:48 AM
Surely they can't continue to justify a Core Solo.

I hope not, it seems even Apple are embarassed by them, they only have the dual core models out on the shop floors.

BlizzardBomb
Jul 22, 2006, 09:00 AM
Surely they can't continue to justify a Core Solo.

Not with a dual 1.66GHz Merom taking its price point.

CaptainValor
Jul 22, 2006, 10:01 AM
Don't get too pumped up about this, everyone. The guys on TWIT were discussing these new Intel chips the other day and the indication from the first evaluation models is that the Mobile is not as much of a leap in performance over the previous generation as the new Desktop Core 2 Duo. I just bought a MBP 2ghz a month ago and as long as the rest of specs remain relatively unchanged, I'll stay happy with this model. :)

DJMastaWes
Jul 22, 2006, 10:02 AM
I'm just burnin' doin' the Merom Dance!

Sing it with me, now! :D

Regardless of what happens on the 7th, I'm ordering a MBP. Though, things look like they're shaping up for that! Apple would be nuts not to put that chip in the MBP now that it's shipping.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed! Can't wait....
I know the odds are riseing for merom MBPs at WWDC, but anyone have opinions on a new enclosure for them at WWDC?

Poudresteve
Jul 22, 2006, 10:26 AM
If we donít see it all on Tuesday. What is the longest Apple can wait? And why would they choose to wait?

I could see Apple waiting a while (at least through the back to school season) while the prices on the Yonah processors plummet, and Apple's laptop profit margin skyrockets to even higher levels. I'm guessing Merom's in the MBP and iMac in September (along with the new nano), just in time for the holiday shopping season.

islanders
Jul 22, 2006, 10:31 AM
Ok guys. I just got the word from a neighbor who is a contractor for one of the upper brass Apple engineers. There is going to be a whole new revolution this Tuesday!

The new MMP will no longer use conventional batteries. Instead, they will be run off of propane. Apple is now trying to get the BTUs up to 15000, and be energy star certified for a multi room space heater.

There will be a small propane fireplace, with a small childproof screen, in bottom center of the screen.

There is a little portable propane bottle that is the exact size of the battery compartment.


:rolleyes:

islanders
Jul 22, 2006, 10:34 AM
I could see Apple waiting a while (at least through the back to school season) while the prices on the Yonah processors plummet, and Apple's laptop profit margin skyrockets to even higher levels. I'm guessing Merom's in the MBP and iMac in September (along with the new nano), just in time for the holiday shopping season.



The other side of August does sound reasonable enough to me. Although they may have one MBP with the new chip before then.

Snowy_River
Jul 22, 2006, 10:58 AM
...
The Pro Mac is overdue, but the software isnít ready. Maybe keep a G5 in the works, for people who work and move on with the new Pro Macs.
...

Overdue? How do you figure that? If anything, the entire line is being changed faster than anyone expected. And, given the faster pace, most people have guessed that the MP will arrive at WWDC. So how can it be overdue?

Eidorian
Jul 22, 2006, 11:04 AM
Nearly the entire line of majot Apple products is in need of an update.

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/

reflex
Jul 22, 2006, 11:10 AM
As soon as core 2 merom comes out every pc notebook will have it.

This is simply not true. Even though Core Duo has been out for about half a year, a lot of pc laptops are still sold with Pentium-M or Celeron-M cpus.

MacBook can keep the Core Duo for a while longer (until November, for example).

islanders
Jul 22, 2006, 11:31 AM
Overdue? How do you figure that? If anything, the entire line is being changed faster than anyone expected. And, given the faster pace, most people have guessed that the MP will arrive at WWDC. So how can it be overdue?




When Apple announced the switch to Intel a lot of people predicted this happening sooner than what was projected. The Power Macs with G5 are the only non Intel Macs. Thatís why I thought they were behind the others and overdue. The sooner this transition is over the better. I think the pros will need G5 for a while because it is stable and the Adobe software is not yet ripe enough for the Intel. There is also a demand for a desktop Intel Mac, for non pros. Some people like the open architecture and would rather buy into the future and use it for over 5 or 6 years. (just speculation)

I wonder if Apple will upgrade all models as fast as possible to expand market share and increase demand for third party apps to make the switch sooner than later?

milozauckerman
Jul 22, 2006, 11:38 AM
Even though Core Duo has been out for about half a year, a lot of pc laptops are still sold with Pentium-M or Celeron-M cpus.
Not those competing with the MacBook.

A quick search at CompUSA reveals that every manufacturer (as well as Dell, obviously not represented) have Core Duo machines in competition with the MacBook's price and size.

reflex
Jul 22, 2006, 11:43 AM
Not those competing with the MacBook.

A quick search at CompUSA reveals that every manufacturer (as well as Dell, obviously not represented) have Core Duo machines in competition with the MacBook's price and size.

Every pc laptop being sold at a lower price than the MacBook is also competing with the Macbook. Some people look at price before features.

duffman9000
Jul 22, 2006, 11:43 AM
Negative? How can this news be negative? Only the most diehard G4 lovers would call this news negative.

milozauckerman
Jul 22, 2006, 11:58 AM
Every pc laptop being sold at a lower price than the MacBook is also competing with the Macbook. Some people look at price before features.
By this logic Yugos and Ferraris are also in competition. Hey, they both drive!

A $499 Dell laptop is not Apple's direct competition - to find that you look at price, features and size. Which is where every manufacturer will start to move their $1299 and $1499 laptops over to Core 2 Duo. The $1099 is a little more problematic (the low-end Core 2 being more expensive than Core Duo's low-end), but maybe Apple will take a small hit in order to push the MacBook market even harder.

"You can buy that $1000 Windows laptop with old technology - or you can get this new Apple laptop with the latest and greatest for the same money, Mr. Switcher."

islanders
Jul 22, 2006, 12:01 PM
Nearly the entire line of majot Apple products is in need of an update.

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/



Thanks for the link. Your right they are all in need of an update. I assumed most of them were brand new. Wow.

Eidorian
Jul 22, 2006, 01:14 PM
Thanks for the link. Your right they are all in need of an update. I assumed most of them were brand new. Wow.I just spam that link and the one to my Merom guide. Someone is bound to listen.

Multimedia
Jul 22, 2006, 01:45 PM
Perhaps if I mention my wishes in every related thread, someone at apple will take note?

iMac Ultra: At least 2.4 Ghz Conroe, 512Mb ATI X1800, and a 23" Screen.

Macbook: I don't want Merom in it. I don't want a faster processor in it. I want a price drop!
______________
Powermac G4 Cube, 450Mhz ATI Rage 128 with 16mb VRAM, 512Mb System RAM, 250GB HDD but silly computer will only recognise 128Gb of it. Merom in MacBook will not cost Apple more than Yonah and it will run cooler and faster even at the same 2GHz.

Erasmus ,
Do you have any idea how much slower your Cube is running because you haven't maxed out the RAM to 1.5 GB? Just by adding two 512 Sticks for only $140 will almost double your speed.

amateurmacfreak
Jul 22, 2006, 02:04 PM
I would really like to see Apple have a laptop cheaper than $1,100, and I think there would be a definite market for the, especially for teenagers looking into getting a Mac. I know that's unlikely, but...
Anyways I hope that the MBPs get the processor update (and a new enclosure) very soon and I really hope the MBs and Mac Minis follow soon after.
I don't get any reason for Apple not too, and I think with Intel it would be possible for Apple to get some cheaper computers out there. It would be nice, but seems unlikely.... *sighs*

guzhogi
Jul 22, 2006, 02:27 PM
I'd like to see Mac Minis start at $499, MacBooks & iMacs start at $999, MacBook Pro start out at $1499 and the Mac Pro at $1999. Maybe add a midtower mac at $1499. Don't know how likely this is, but just a thought

poppe
Jul 22, 2006, 02:32 PM
I'd like to see Mac Minis start at $499, MacBooks & iMacs start at $999, MacBook Pro start out at $1499 and the Mac Pro at $1999. Maybe add a midtower mac at $1499. Don't know how likely this is, but just a thought

Or other wise keep the prices and go 1 gig RAM all up and down the system

DwightSchrute
Jul 22, 2006, 02:44 PM
Why does everyone want Apple to change the enclosure of the MBP when it's already perfect?

DHagan4755
Jul 22, 2006, 03:07 PM
Why does everyone want Apple to change the enclosure of the MBP when it's already perfect?

It's time for a new enclosure. The one used right now is from the PowerBook G4 days and goes back to 2003.

More importantly, the MacBook Pro's hinge design limits how far the display can open. Just about every other laptop has a screen that can open 180į. Secondly, while it's not horrible, the MacBook Pro display needs to have a wider viewing angle. It's VERY HARD to replace the MBP's hard drive. I don't want to see a magnetic latch. I would prefer to see something more in-line with the clamshell iBook, which snapped shut.

Those are just a few things.

Apple needs to create a whole new MacBook Pro to deal with heat issues alone. Having that battery inset in the middle must be a nightmare on the logic board designers. And Apple must be paying a fortune to repair the MBP because it's so intricate and hard to get into.

BlizzardBomb
Jul 22, 2006, 03:10 PM
I would really like to see Apple have a laptop cheaper than $1,100, and I think there would be a definite market for the, especially for teenagers looking into getting a Mac. I know that's unlikely, but...
Anyways I hope that the MBPs get the processor update (and a new enclosure) very soon and I really hope the MBs and Mac Minis follow soon after.
I don't get any reason for Apple not too, and I think with Intel it would be possible for Apple to get some cheaper computers out there. It would be nice, but seems unlikely.... *sighs*

Agreed. A light, small, cheap Apple laptop targeted at students would be excellent, and an education iMac that's available to the public would be great too. Unlikely, but I'm with you on this one.

In other news, I expect the iMac to stay with an X1600 series card (because Apple have historically used the mid-range cards: 9600, X600, X1600 and possibly the rumored X2600s next year) so maybe an X1600 Pro and/or an XT. I also think that they should update the MacBook Pros graphics card because its a Pro laptop with a mid-range card so a Mobility X1800 would be nice.

EagerDragon
Jul 22, 2006, 03:11 PM
Ok guys. I just got the word from a neighbor who is a contractor for one of the upper brass Apple engineers. There is going to be a whole new revolution this Tuesday!

The new MMP will no longer use conventional batteries. Instead, they will be run off of propane. Apple is now trying to get the BTUs up to 15000, and be energy star certified for a multi room space heater.

There will be a small propane fireplace, with a small childproof screen, in bottom center of the screen.

There is a little portable propane bottle that is the exact size of the battery compartment.


:rolleyes:

I already have that in my 15" PB 1.67, the heat from it has so far made some changes to the skin on my legs where it rest and keeps me nice an cosy in the winter.

Wont need a bigger space heater for a while.
LOL
:D

Flying Llama
Jul 22, 2006, 03:30 PM
awesome...

I'm just sad we'll never truly be able to say the long awaited:

"Ah, the G5 Powerbooks are here!".

All those G5 PB on tuesday jokes, in vain... :(

It would have been awesome if Apple introduced some, just out of principle. :D


/rant

Can't wait for WWDC!!

--flyingllama

DwightSchrute
Jul 22, 2006, 03:42 PM
More importantly, the MacBook Pro's hinge design limits how far the display can open.

Okay, that is one thing I will agree that they need to change. I'm pretty tall and I have noticed when I go to the Apple store that I could put the screen back a little futher than they allow me to. Well, I can only hope they make that change on August 7th.

Eidorian
Jul 22, 2006, 04:15 PM
Agreed. A light, small, cheap Apple laptop targeted at students would be excellent, and an education iMac that's available to the public would be great too. Unlikely, but I'm with you on this one.

In other news, I expect the iMac to stay with an X1600 series card (because Apple have historically used the mid-range cards: 9600, X600, X1600 and possibly the rumored X2600s next year) so maybe an X1600 Pro and/or an XT. I also think that they should update the MacBook Pros graphics card because its a Pro laptop with a mid-range card so a Mobility X1800 would be nice.X600 Pro (iSight iMac G5 17") and X600 XT (iSight iMac G5 20") Hopefully we'll see a slight bump on the GPU.

wizz0bang
Jul 22, 2006, 04:29 PM
Nearly the entire line of majot Apple products is in need of an update.

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/

Now that we are using Intel, I wonder if we will start to see speed bumps every three months instead of every six.

Multimedia
Jul 22, 2006, 04:30 PM
I would really like to see Apple have a laptop cheaper than $1,100, and I think there would be a definite market for the, especially for teenagers looking into getting a Mac. I know that's unlikely, but...
Anyways I hope that the MBPs get the processor update (and a new enclosure) very soon and I really hope the MBs and Mac Minis follow soon after.
I don't get any reason for Apple not too, and I think with Intel it would be possible for Apple to get some cheaper computers out there. It would be nice, but seems unlikely.... *sighs*Refub 1.83GHz MacBooks Are Only $949.

gerrycurl
Jul 22, 2006, 04:30 PM
i'm still baffled why nobody's answered my question. anyone with a g5 powermac upgrade to an off the shelf video card yet?

i wonder about video card compatibility because i don't see a single driver on nvidia or ati for mac. and the specifications for the 1900 xfx and nvidia 7950 both don't even list mac compatibility. this is really making me think twice about buying from apple.

anyone please help??

Multimedia
Jul 22, 2006, 04:45 PM
i'm still baffled why nobody's answered my question. anyone with a g5 powermac upgrade to an off the shelf video card yet?

i wonder about video card compatibility because i don't see a single driver on nvidia or ati for mac. and the specifications for the 1900 xfx and nvidia 7950 both don't even list mac compatibility. this is really making me think twice about buying from apple.

anyone please help??You have to buy your Mac Video cards from Apple or from ATI which makes some retail models. But none of ATI's retail models are PCIe yet - IE they will not go into Dual Core G5's including the Quad and obviously not in what's next. Can't count on any PC version of anyone's cards working in Macs. Sorry. Sad but true.

I wish someone would tell me I'm wrong on this please. I don't want to be right. :( I want to buy an ATI PCIe Dual DVI card for my Quad, but no such animal exists.

tekmoe
Jul 22, 2006, 05:21 PM
Negative? How can this news be negative? Only the most diehard G4 lovers would call this news negative.

it's probably the people who just bought macbook pro's a few weeks ago. hah!

glad i haven't bought a macbook pro yet. must have merom! woooohoooooo!

tehdee
Jul 22, 2006, 05:43 PM
it's probably the people who just bought macbook pro's a few weeks ago. hah!

glad i haven't bought a macbook pro yet. must have merom! woooohoooooo!

seven months from now, some yutz is going to be saying the same thing about merom.

jiggie2g
Jul 22, 2006, 05:50 PM
Merom in MacBook will not cost Apple more than Yonah and it will run cooler and faster even at the same 2GHz.

Erasmus ,
Do you have any idea how much slower your Cube is running because you haven't maxed out the RAM to 1.5 GB? Just by adding two 512 Sticks for only $140 will almost double your speed.


I'm with Multimedia i don't see why Apple would intentionally cripple the Macbook with yonah when they coast exactly the same and are just a drop in upgrade. seeing as how Apple now has to complete the rest of the industry with the same hardware they will have to offer similar configuration.

Here's how is see it.

MacBook Pro

15in 512MB 2.1ghz 80GB HD ,

15 in 1GB DDR2 100GB HD 2.1ghz w/option for 2.33

17in 1GB DDR2 2.33ghz 120GB HD

MacBook

13in 1.86ghz 512mb 60GB HD both B&W

13in 2.0ghz 512mb 80GB HD both B&W

MacSA
Jul 22, 2006, 06:22 PM
I'm with Multimedia i don't see why Apple would intentionally cripple the Macbook with yonah when they coast exactly the same and are just a drop in upgrade.

But this is Apple we're talking about lol

bigbossbmb
Jul 22, 2006, 06:46 PM
i'm still baffled why nobody's answered my question. anyone with a g5 powermac upgrade to an off the shelf video card yet?

i wonder about video card compatibility because i don't see a single driver on nvidia or ati for mac. and the specifications for the 1900 xfx and nvidia 7950 both don't even list mac compatibility. this is really making me think twice about buying from apple.

anyone please help??

It is definitely more difficult to find video cards for g5 powermacs. If ATI or Apple carry the card you want, then you're just find and it's very easy. I bought an X800 and swapped out my 9600xt for Aperture. Works great and was very easy to install.

Hopefully with the intel machines it will be easier to find cards, but it will depend on Apple. It is really up to them.

I've got a 9600XT for sale if anyone wants one :D

iJawn108
Jul 22, 2006, 07:57 PM
Thanks for the links.

I donít see why a 20% increase in speed is going to rock the boat. Especially if itís in the MBP. So if it is ready for shipment I donít see any advantage in waiting for the MBP line to upgrade.

I guess Iíll have to do some research about the battery performance.

Noone knows what Steve Jobs will do, but I think he had been roper-doping long enough with the G3 and G4. What 6 years with the same G4? He needs to come out swinging while Apple still has a strong brand name from the iPod.

I hope to see some changes. The last 5 years have been so slow that it hasnít been worth keeping up with.
64 bit addressing. :rolleyes:

Val-kyrie
Jul 22, 2006, 08:12 PM
Maybe I'm out in right field with this suggestion, but how about a further separation between the black Macbook and the white, other than color?

Macbooks (white) - Yonah and integrated graphics (960?)
Macbook (black) - Merom and the new integrated graphics (965???)

That would certainly justify the black's higher cost and would give it more of a punch to be that PB 12" replacement.

Or preferably a MB with a discrete gfx option.

Val-kyrie
Jul 22, 2006, 08:22 PM
Thanks for the links.

I donít see why a 20% increase in speed is going to rock the boat. Especially if itís in the MBP. So if it is ready for shipment I donít see any advantage in waiting for the MBP line to upgrade.

I guess Iíll have to do some research about the battery performance.

Noone knows what Steve Jobs will do, but I think he had been roper-doping long enough with the G3 and G4. What 6 years with the same G4? He needs to come out swinging while Apple still has a strong brand name from the iPod.

I hope to see some changes. The last 5 years have been so slow that it hasnít been worth keeping up with.

At the same clock rates, the battery life for Yonah and Merom are the same, just a boost in computational performance (and slightly less heat, I think?).

jwp1964
Jul 22, 2006, 09:50 PM
Does this current set of chips include some very low power consumption chips for use in the Apple ultra-portable I want so badly?:confused:

Eidorian
Jul 22, 2006, 09:56 PM
Does this current set of chips include some very low power consumption chips for use in the Apple ultra-portable I want so badly?:confused:No

DavidCar
Jul 22, 2006, 10:38 PM
I'm with Multimedia i don't see why Apple would intentionally cripple the Macbook with yonah when they coast exactly the same and are just a drop in upgrade.
Maybe the low end MacBook will keep Yonah and get a price drop, while the higher end MacBook, black and white, will get Merom. That might lead to the most sales, to both those looking for a cheaper MacBook, and those waiting for Merom.

Erasmus
Jul 22, 2006, 11:03 PM
Merom in MacBook will not cost Apple more than Yonah and it will run cooler and faster even at the same 2GHz.

Erasmus ,
Do you have any idea how much slower your Cube is running because you haven't maxed out the RAM to 1.5 GB? Just by adding two 512 Sticks for only $140 will almost double your speed.

I did double the ram from 256 to 512, and didn't notice anthing, however upgrading it now would just be another reason for not upgrading to an iMac. Do you have any idea how much faster my iMac Ultra would be? I'm sure you do. ;)

I just don't see much point in upgrading a computer that I expect will only be useful for its hard-drive on a home network.
But you are right, RAM is dirt cheap nowadays.

I think you missed my point about Yonah Macbooks. I want the price to drop. There is no point in me owning a Merom Macbook if I buy an iMac. The present Macbook is easily fast enough for writing essays on the train, wouldn't you agree?

Eidorian
Jul 22, 2006, 11:14 PM
Maybe the low end MacBook will keep Yonah and get a price drop, while the higher end MacBook, black and white, will get Merom. That might lead to the most sales, to both those looking for a cheaper MacBook, and those waiting for Merom.I don't think Apple should divide a single line between Core Duo and Core 2 Duo. The average idiot customer won't be able to conprehend why Merom is performs better at the same clock speed as Yonah. Between two entirely separate product lines it's not a problem. Unless you start throwing in products with Yonah/Merom at the same clock speed. Watch those heads spin.

Multimedia
Jul 22, 2006, 11:40 PM
I did double the ram from 256 to 512, and didn't notice anthing.That's because you have to get to 1GB before you see the substantial increse in speed. Both my Cubes have 1.5 GB inside and I'm sure it's the only way to fly them properly. That 256 Module was a waste of money. You should put a 512 in that last empty slot at least for only $70 to get it up to a Gig.

I just don't see much point in upgrading a computer that I expect will only be useful for its hard-drive on a home network.
But you are right, RAM is dirt cheap nowadays.

I think you missed my point about Yonah Macbooks. I want the price to drop. There is no point in me owning a Merom Macbook if I buy an iMac. The present Macbook is easily fast enough for writing essays on the train, wouldn't you agree?Price is not going to go down. That's where Apple wants it. You'll have to get a refurb for $949. Lower than that will probably not happen until next year - if they still have them in stock. For writing, you can still buy a 14" iBook for $999 - the 12" iBook refurbs are all gone and the 14" iBook is $999 - in other words, rediculously overpriced. So no money can be saved and you appear to have no imagination for how you could use the additional power in future.

$949 seems reasonable to me. But I don't want Yonah inside. So I will continue to wait for the 17" MBP with Merom+Santa Rosa+Leopard+802.11n inside next Spring. I might pull the trigger on a Merom refurb MacBook later this year. Knowing what's coming next year makes me want to wait for the whole shebang. But I may cave once Merom MacBooks go refurb to tide me over.

ArizonaKid
Jul 23, 2006, 12:05 AM
recent AppleInsider story[/url] had indicated that Intel may have plans to move up Merom's formal launch to next Monday, July 23rd, to coincide with the Core 2 Duo Desktop variant ("Conroe") launch.

Monday is the 24th. This is the third post on this. How long does it take for an admin to correct a simple mistake?

solvs
Jul 23, 2006, 12:30 AM
I would really like to see Apple have a laptop cheaper than $1,100, and I think there would be a definite market for the, especially for teenagers looking into getting a Mac. I know that's unlikely, but...
I don't know, I'm kinda expecting it. As seen in the past, I'm sure they'll drop to ~$1000. Maybe even cheaper once they get some of their R&D back and chip prices start to fall. Eventually I see a sub $800 laptop even. Maybe.

Multimedia
Jul 23, 2006, 01:48 AM
I don't know, I'm kinda expecting it. As seen in the past, I'm sure they'll drop to ~$1000. Maybe even cheaper once they get some of their R&D back and chip prices start to fall. Eventually I see a sub $800 laptop even. Maybe.I seriously doubt it. It's not part of Apple's style to appeal to the masses by offering something CHEAP. :eek:

"Profits" on those sub $1k notebooks are next to nothing. Apple wouldn't want to make so little per unit. Plus they don't need to do that. You can buy old Macs for under $1k all the time. Since the refurbished 1.83 GHz Combo MacBook is already only $949, what's the problem? :confused:

You think that isn't low enough? You want Apple to be a welfare agency for those who can't afford $949? Because given the slim margins that would be involved in such a product, that is what they would be doing. Plus they would be canibalizing their above $1k sales. Makes no sense to me. :rolleyes:

MacinDoc
Jul 23, 2006, 02:00 AM
i think the macbook should get the chips with 2 MB of shared L2 cache,

and the pro's get the chips with 4 MB of shared L2 cache

There will be then a difference between the two models (is having 4mb of shared L2 cache a lot better than 2mb? i have no idea but i presume it is)

or perhaps just let the blackbook have the 2.0ghz chip with 4mb of shared l2 cache to compensate for them charging for colour
...only if the Macbooks also get a price drop, because the Core Duo chips should get a price drop, if Intel even keeps making them.

What everyone keeps forgetting in this discussion, however, is that the Core2 Duo chips will be considerably more energy efficient, reducing heat production and prolonging battery life. Considering that they will be introduced at the same price as the current Core Duo chips, why not use them in the Macbook, at the 2 GHz speed?

Furthermore, transitioning all Macs to 64 bit chips as quickly as possible would also hasten the transition to a true 64 bit system, as developers would have more reason to develop for a 64 bit environment (assuming that OS X 10.5 is truly 64 bit).

Multimedia
Jul 23, 2006, 02:20 AM
...only if the Macbooks also get a price drop, because the Core Duo chips should get a price drop, if Intel even keeps making them.

What everyone keeps forgetting in this discussion, however, is that the Core2 Duo chips will be considerably more energy efficient, reducing heat production and prolonging battery life. Considering that they will be introduced at the same price as the current Core Duo chips, why not use them in the Macbook, at the 2 GHz speed?

Furthermore, transitioning all Macs to 64 bit chips as quickly as possible would also hasten the transition to a true 64 bit system, as developers would have more reason to develop for a 64 bit environment (assuming that OS X 10.5 is truly 64 bit).I'm with you MacInDoc. Intel is not going to keep selling Yonah for long before they stop making them. Anyone who does the least amount of research should see that Merom is a much better way to go for all the reasons you mention. If Apple is really trying to stay state-of-the-art, they will lose Yonah as soon as Intel's supply can keep up with Apple's production volume. On the MacBook front, this should be able to happen by October-November, I imagine.

If Apple doesn't put Core 2 Duo in MacBooks @ 1.83 & 2GHz by November, the competition on the PC front is going to make Apple look like they are selling outdated products as if they are current. This will not fly among savy buyers and MacBook sales might falter - perhaps even tank without such a switch. :eek:

Almost all mobile computers selling for more than $1k by November will be Core 2 Duo. So for the holiday shopping season, Apple has got to put them inside MacBooks by then.

iJawn108
Jul 23, 2006, 02:48 AM
seven months from now, some yutz is going to be saying the same thing about merom.
that will be me with santa rosa. :cool:

Multimedia
Jul 23, 2006, 03:43 AM
[/SIZE]seven months from now, some yutz is going to be saying the same thing about merom.Merom won't be going away in 2007. So no yutz need apply for next mobile processor amticipation duty all of next year, unless of course you mean the 4 core Mobile version of Merom coming next Fall '07. :)that will be me with santa rosa. :cool:And Santa Rosa will add to Merom's Power next Spring. That's what I'm waiting for as well. :)

Trouble with this forum is a whole bunch of folks have just come in after we've already spent the past 6 months discussing this stuff and most of the newbies are completely
Intel Processor Roadmap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_Microarchitecture#Road_map) illiterate. :(

Erasmus
Jul 23, 2006, 04:50 AM
(Stuff...)

You may be right, who knows? There seems to be good arguments on both sides to whether Macbooks get Merom in August.
One of the reasons I want an iMac with Conroe (or any intel processor I suppose) is for Boot Camp, and SolidWorks for uni (plus random games, ie. Quake 4, Doom 3 etc ;)). Other than the fact that my cube would die trying to pull along this extremely demanding application, I am 99% certain that it will not run on System anyway. This is another reason I am wanting a Conroe and the X1800, other than for games, it would be perfect for running Solidworks.

Therefore I don't care what's in the Macbook, as I only need it for non processor intensive purposes, with anything else optional. My motive is purely cost-cutting.

Also, I've looked, and I do not believe Australia has a Refurb section of its Store, and I refuse to buy something from eBay.

Chuck
Jul 23, 2006, 05:21 AM
I posted this question in another thread but no one has answered it, so... I was wondering what thoughts you had on this:

Will this upgrade to Core 2 Duo be considered a RevB strictly speaking, for the iMacs? I mean, since it's a new generation of Intel chip as opposed to a speed bump of an existing chip, is it likely to cause any unknown bugs or dramas that the Core Duos didn't?

I'm in the market for a new iMac when they put the new chips in, but I want to be confident that this time they'll have ironed out all the bugs from the initial release of Intel iMacs, plus not be likely to have new bugs caused by the new architecture of the Core 2 Duos.

Thoughts?

Chuck.

BlizzardBomb
Jul 23, 2006, 05:59 AM
I posted this question in another thread but no one has answered it, so... I was wondering what thoughts you had on this:

Will this upgrade to Core 2 Duo be considered a RevB strictly speaking, for the iMacs? I mean, since it's a new generation of Intel chip as opposed to a speed bump of an existing chip, is it likely to cause any unknown bugs or dramas that the Core Duos didn't?

I'm in the market for a new iMac when they put the new chips in, but I want to be confident that this time they'll have ironed out all the bugs from the initial release of Intel iMacs, plus not be likely to have new bugs caused by the new architecture of the Core 2 Duos.

Thoughts?

Chuck.

If iMacs get Merom its highly likely there'll be 0 new problems. If they get Conroe there is a very very small possibility of heat issues.

dannyallen34
Jul 23, 2006, 09:28 AM
[/SIZE]Merom won't be going away in 2007. So no yutz need apply for next mobile processor amticipation duty all of next year, unless of course you mean the 4 core Mobile version of Merom coming next Fall '07. :)And Santa Rosa will add to Merom's Power next Spring. That's what I'm waiting for as well. :)

I was wondering where you heard that there is going to be a 4 core mobile version of Merom coming Fall '07. Any roadmaps i've read for intel, including that one you linked to (and the Tom's Hardware one) don't mention it. In fact, I didn't even read of a desktop 4 core processor being released until 2008, let alone 2007 in a laptop.

I'm wondering where you heard this because I'm getting a MBP for college next summer and if there were quad core MBPs coming out in the fall I would wait.

(Oh, and if I misinterpreted 4 cores to equal Quad core on a single processor, please clarify what you meant.)

iGary
Jul 23, 2006, 09:31 AM
Why do I have some weird feeling that they will update the entire product line at WWDC?

islanders
Jul 23, 2006, 09:36 AM
If Apple is really trying to stay state-of-the-art, they will lose Yonah as soon as Intel's supply can keep up with Apple's production volume. On the MacBook front, this should be able to happen by October-November, I imagine.

If Apple doesn't put Core 2 Duo in MacBooks @ 1.83 & 2GHz by November, the competition on the PC front is going to make Apple look like they are selling outdated products as if they are current. This will not fly among savy buyers and MacBook sales might falter - perhaps even tank without such a switch. :eek:

Almost all mobile computers selling for more than $1k by November will be Core 2 Duo. So for the holiday shopping season, Apple has got to put them inside MacBooks by then.



This seems to be a realistic approachÖ how long can Apple wait?

Just because Intel is shipping Merom, who are they shipping to? Apple? Dell? Sony?

When are these chips going to be delivered to Apple for at least one line of MBP?

Is it possible we are getting ahead of ourselves here? After all Apple was the last player to sign with Intel.

Or has Intel already produced enough chips to satisfy demand before shipping to any single company?

BlizzardBomb
Jul 23, 2006, 10:03 AM
Why do I have some weird feeling that they will update the entire product line at WWDC?

If they did, it could work out quite well from a marketing point of view. However, I doubt it will all happen at WWDC. Maybe around September.

GFLPraxis
Jul 23, 2006, 11:12 AM
If they did, it could work out quite well from a marketing point of view. However, I doubt it will all happen at WWDC. Maybe around September.


Why not? Conroe will have availability by WWDC, IIRC, and Merom won't be far behind- they could announce a MBP with Merom, shipping in two weeks after WWDC.

MBP with Merom, iMac with Conroe, Mac Pro's with either Conroe and a Woodcrest quad or all Woodcrest, MacBook's with Merom or Yonah w/price drop, and Mac Mini price drop back to $499.

John Jacob
Jul 23, 2006, 11:56 AM
Well, since WWDC has been bumped from the usual June day, we all know something is coming. I kinda am hoping for a 13" MBP. They could introduce the 13" MBP along with bumped up 15" and 17" ones.

I would love that. I really want a MBP to replace my PB12, but the current MBPs are too bulky. What I really want is a 13" MBP of the same general form factor as the MacBooks, but with a dedicated pro graphics card and everything else the MBPs have...

uv23
Jul 23, 2006, 12:02 PM
I too am holding out hope for a 13" MBP. The 13" MB isn't powerful enough graphically and the 15" MBP is too big.

wizz0bang
Jul 23, 2006, 12:24 PM
I too am holding out hope for a 13" MBP. The 13" MB isn't powerful enough graphically and the 15" MBP is too big.

Besides, the aluminum is just stylin!

BlizzardBomb
Jul 23, 2006, 12:47 PM
Why not? Conroe will have availability by WWDC, IIRC, and Merom won't be far behind- they could announce a MBP with Merom, shipping in two weeks after WWDC.

MBP with Merom, iMac with Conroe, Mac Pros with either Conroe and a Woodcrest quad or all Woodcrest, MacBooks with Merom or Yonah w/price drop, and Mac Mini price drop back to $499.

Just because something is available doesn't mean it will be updated.

poppe
Jul 23, 2006, 01:10 PM
(qoute above me). Let alone isn't it that Apple orders for such an amount of processors for such a price (discounted over market price), and then puts those in laptops. So what I mean it really doesn't matter if Yonah is reduced does it?

islanders
Jul 23, 2006, 01:12 PM
(i tried to edit this and lost my post!)

TangoCharlie
Jul 23, 2006, 01:53 PM
Niice. I would assume that they forgo using the 2.0 GHz chip though. Right now, their lineup is pretty solid using two different speeds. Unless the modify the structure of the lineup (as in lower prices), I think it would make sense.
I aggree that Apple will only use two speeds in the upgraded MBP... but it'll be the slower two speeds. Even tho' Merom is supposed to be more energy efficent than Yonah, Apple will opt for the "cooller" lower speed cpus in the MBP. Similarly, when the "cut-down" Meroms come out (slower and smaller L2 cache), they'll be the CPUs used in the MacBook and Mac mini.

As an aside, TFA states that Merom will be used in the MBP.... which is true, but Apple are also going to use it in an updated iMac too :-)

Multimedia
Jul 23, 2006, 01:53 PM
I was wondering where you heard that there is going to be a 4 core mobile version of Merom coming Fall '07. Any roadmaps i've read for intel, including that one you linked to (and the Tom's Hardware one) don't mention it. In fact, I didn't even read of a desktop 4 core processor being released until 2008, let alone 2007 in a laptop.
Desktop 4 core processors with 8 MiB L2 cache - called Kentsfield are now planned for release in 4th quarter of this year 2006. Desktop 8 core processors with 12 MiB L2 cache - called Yorkfield are planned for next Spring 2007.

On the server-worstation front these are the planned processors coming next year and in 2008:
Woodcrest, first eighth-generation server and workstation chip, 65 nm, dual-core, 4 MiB L2 cache (Released on June 26, 2006)
Clovertown, quad-core MCM, consists of two Woodcrests, with 2 × 4 MiB L2
Tigerton, quad-core MCM. MP-capable version of Clovertown.
Harpertown, either a dual-core, 45 nm shrink of Woodcrest, or an eight-core, 45 nm MCM with 12 MiB L2
Dunnington, four to thirty-two cores, successor to Tigerton

I'm wondering where you heard this because I'm getting a MBP for college next summer and if there were quad core MBPs coming out in the fall I would wait.

(Oh, and if I misinterpreted 4 cores to equal Quad core on a single processor, please clarify what you meant.)4 Mobile Cores In One MBP by end of 2007 Is An Expectation Not A Known Fact. Obviously Intel is not going to project that possability until it knows it can do it sometime next year either possibly by end of 2007 or almost certainly by end of 2008. Sorry for the certain tone of my mention. I put a smillie after that sentence to indicate it was sort of a hopeful joke. :)

We will all have to wait for the '07 WWDC next summer to tell what's going on for the mobile Macs then. Way too early to tell now. I would just be as patient as possible before you have to pull the trigger for school in the fall of '07. In other words, don't put any weight into my hopeful expectation for 4 cores in a mobile Mac by two years from now.

I think it will depend on how well the 45nm production process develops as to how soon Intel will feel confident they can put 4 mobile cores with 12-16 MB of L2 cache in one piece of 45nm silicon and still keep it cool and energy efficient. This is a long term hope and dream for me, nothing substantiated by any sources. Not fantasy. But a realistic hopeful expectation that will most likely be fulfilled in 3 years worst case after Core 3 comes to market which will be about 2 years from now. :)

Each of these Core Families has a life expectancy of about two years of reign plus the half year preceeding early deployment and ramp up.

Core 2 - late 2006-2008
Core 3 - late 2008-2010
Core 4 - late 2010-2012
etc.

And each Family represents significant changes in both the processor architecture and the manufacturing process. We will have to see how the Intel long range plan unfolds as planned or not as planned to determine what will be available in long range future. IE - nobody knows for sure. Right now I can't see beyond a 2.33 GHz Merom with the Santa Rosa support set + 802.11n and 10-Gigabit Ethernet next Spring. Can anyone else here see further?

Multimedia
Jul 23, 2006, 02:17 PM
Why do I have some weird feeling that they will update the entire product line at WWDC?Why not? Conroe will have availability by WWDC, IIRC, and Merom won't be far behind- they could announce a MBP with Merom, shipping in two weeks after WWDC.

MBP with Merom, iMac with Conroe, Mac Pro's with either Conroe and a Woodcrest quad or all Woodcrest, MacBook's with Merom or Yonah w/price drop, and Mac Mini price drop back to $499.This is the scenario I would love to see unfold including slowest 1.66 GHz Core 2 Duo in the $499 mini Combo. I think following this path would be the best way for Apple to gain significant market share this Fall. Be boldly state-of-the-art 64 bit all the way right away. :eek: :) :D :cool: ;)

Multimedia
Jul 23, 2006, 02:26 PM
(qoute above me). Let alone isn't it that Apple orders for such an amount of processors for such a price (discounted over market price), and then puts those in laptops. So what I mean it really doesn't matter if Yonah is reduced does it?Apple probably has a JUST-IN-TIME arrangement with Intel that keeps an obsolete processor inventory from ever building up. This would be pared with an auto price reduction scheme as Intel lowers prices to the public. Just guessing.

Multimedia
Jul 23, 2006, 02:31 PM
I aggree that Apple will only use two speeds in the upgraded MBP... but it'll be the slower two speeds. Even tho' Merom is supposed to be more energy efficent than Yonah, Apple will opt for the "cooller" lower speed cpus in the MBP. Similarly, when the "cut-down" Meroms come out (slower and smaller L2 cache), they'll be the CPUs used in the MacBook and Mac mini.

As an aside, TFA states that Merom will be used in the MBP.... which is true, but Apple are also going to use it in an updated iMac too :-)I will be very surprised if Apple doesn't use the 2.16 & 2.33 GHz Meroms in the next MacBook Pros to fully separate them in speed from the 2GHz MacBook. 2.33 Merom should be as cool as the 2.16 Yonah no?

What is TFA? Link?

mdntcallr
Jul 23, 2006, 02:33 PM
I'll get a MBP once Apple or someone else figures out how to make them work on an air flight. There is no Empower solution and the draw of 85w exceeds the juice (75w) that the seatside powerports provide. It's amazing this is even an issue in a "pro" line of portables - let alone from Apple. No 3rd party solutions solve this isssue.

This is a big issue for me also. I can't believe they havent released a air/auto power adapter yet for the magsafe power design.

APPLE WAKE UP!!! i want to upgrade from my powerbook, but need this!

mdntcallr
Jul 23, 2006, 02:41 PM
Racist. :p

Kidding. I'm think they'll go with a high end black model eventually. Maybe give it a better video card or something to justify another hundred bucks or so. I'm hoping they do the same with the MacBooks. Maybe a new lowend pro, or a high end nonpro with a built-in video card. That would justify a $1500 purchase over a $1000 one to me.

yeah i would love a MBP with:

Black Case
Better Graphics Chip
Blu-ray drive (perhaps? apple is cutting edge in HD this would solidify it)

islanders
Jul 23, 2006, 02:50 PM
I lost my post up above. So, Iíll try and rephrase.

I donít think we will see any portables with Merom for MWDC.

Donít expect Apple to announce early then be up to 6 weeks behind demand on delivery. This could attract negative publicity, negative image.

Historically, Apple has been reluctant to upgrade portable lines, especially ibook, that had strong sales.

Anyone waiting for MBP Merom should be prepared to wait until November/December.

Apple is advertising stability, user friendly, integration with digital camerasÖ

As far as the transition into Intel, it must be going as well as could be expected. Apple may want to keep their powder dry and update when there is a falter in sales, or just before.

They may wait to update everything at once, November/December, which will give smooth sailing into next year when 3rd party apps will be fully developed.

I also donít think we will see another 12Ē MBP.

mdntcallr
Jul 23, 2006, 02:53 PM
Just so long as they don't make the glossy screen standard on the MBP, like they did on the MB. I can't stand that glare ridden, reflective surface finish!

Yeah the glossy screen is annoying, reason enough to order a custom job.

daneoni
Jul 23, 2006, 04:14 PM
Personally, i'd love Apple releasing a intermediate desktop solution (between iMac and Mac Pro) sporting a not-yet-released 3.2GHz Conroe porcessor. That would be my dream machine BUT this is unlikely as its clocked higher than the top Woodcrest chip which tops out at 3.0GHz.

I might just get a windows box and dump linux on it....after all i already own a mac (PowerBook) with lots of life left. So if i miss Mac OS X i'll simply use my PB.

Other alternative would be to buy any conroe machine and just swap out the CPU with the 3.2 GHz chip launches. Too bad conroes will most likely be launching on iMacs though.

boncellis
Jul 23, 2006, 06:35 PM
Personally, i'd love Apple releasing a intermediate desktop solution (between iMac and Mac Pro) sporting a not-yet-released 3.2GHz Conroe porcessor. That would be my dream machine BUT this is unlikely as its clocked higher than the top Woodcrest chip which tops out at 3.0GHz.

I might just get a windows box and dump linux on it....after all i already own a mac (PowerBook) with lots of life left. So if i miss Mac OS X i'll simply use my PB.

Other alternative would be to buy any conroe machine and just swap out the CPU with the 3.2 GHz chip launches. Too bad conroes will most likely be launching on iMacs though.

Don't do it man! You deserve better!

daneoni
Jul 23, 2006, 07:01 PM
Don't do it man! You deserve better!

lol...lets hope it doesnt come to that.

solvs
Jul 23, 2006, 08:16 PM
Makes no sense to me. :rolleyes:
Wow, why all the hatin'? This is what they did before. This is the way things are headed. I see another sub $1000 just like the iBook, that's a given. I'm hoping for a cheaper one, but not expecting it for awhile. Could be months, could be years. But as prices drop, it will happen. It's only a matter of time.

Eidorian
Jul 23, 2006, 08:34 PM
Wow, why all the hatin'? This is what they did before. This is the way things are headed. I see another sub $1000 just like the iBook, that's a given. I'm hoping for a cheaper one, but not expecting it for awhile. Could be months, could be years. But as prices drop, it will happen. It's only a matter of time.The iBook never went under $999. I barely call that a sub-$1000 laptop. But whatever you say. I'll agree that $999 looks better then $1000 though. :p

yeah i would love a MBP with:

Black Case
Better Graphics Chip
Blu-ray drive (perhaps? apple is cutting edge in HD this would solidify it)All of these Blu-Ray fans scare me. Considering they're having trouble fabricating the 50 GB discs..

Multimedia
Jul 23, 2006, 09:42 PM
The iBook never went under $999. I barely call that a sub-$1000 laptop. But whatever you say. I'll agree that $999 looks better then $1000 though. :p

All of these Blu-Ray fans scare me. Considering they're having trouble fabricating the 50 GB discs..Speaking of Blu-ray, last night NBC broadcast the pilot of Miami Vice in Widescreen HD along with shorts on the upcoming movie by Michael Mann. I mean this was a pristine Film Transfer to 1080i HD with incredible Dolby Sound. Then at the end they try and hawk 4x3 SD DVD sets of the first two seasons (22 episodes each) for $40 each. What an absurd offer after watching the pilot in HD. No way would I want go back and watch the rest in SD 4x3. We need either Blu-ray or HD-DVD to meet market demand for fare like this ASAP.

solvs
Jul 23, 2006, 10:02 PM
The iBook never went under $999.
I said sub-$1000. $999 is sub-$1000. ;) The iMac started out at $1300, and dropped to $800 at one point. Stuff it getting cheaper. I don't know when a cheaper laptop will be coming out, but I'll bet one is.

ezekielrage_99
Jul 23, 2006, 10:12 PM
Why not? Conroe will have availability by WWDC, IIRC, and Merom won't be far behind- they could announce a MBP with Merom, shipping in two weeks after WWDC.

MBP with Merom, iMac with Conroe, Mac Pro's with either Conroe and a Woodcrest quad or all Woodcrest, MacBook's with Merom or Yonah w/price drop, and Mac Mini price drop back to $499.

It sounds very plausible plus didn't Apple say with the introduction of Intel Processers there would be more hardware updates through the year?

Even so I'm up for the entire line update :D :cool:

Eidorian
Jul 23, 2006, 10:33 PM
I said sub-$1000. $999 is sub-$1000. ;) The iMac started out at $1300, and dropped to $800 at one point. Stuff it getting cheaper. I don't know when a cheaper laptop will be coming out, but I'll bet one is.The iMac hit $799 later in the G3's life and when the G4 came out. Apple was still selling the older G3 as a budget model.

islanders
Jul 23, 2006, 10:33 PM
We may see a drop in the MB at the end of a production run.

$1099 is very reasonable, esp if it is a quality productÖ

at that price consumers are going to evaluate features, longevityÖ

although I think it is a valid point to consider pricing for consumer end.

iBorg20181
Jul 23, 2006, 10:38 PM
I lost my post up above. So, Iíll try and rephrase.

I donít think we will see any portables with Merom for MWDC.

Donít expect Apple to announce early then be up to 6 weeks behind demand on delivery. This could attract negative publicity, negative image.

Historically, Apple has been reluctant to upgrade portable lines, especially ibook, that had strong sales.

Anyone waiting for MBP Merom should be prepared to wait until November/December.

Not likely.

In the "old days" (i.e. pre-Intel) Apple could do this, keep selling outdated technology to clear out inventory before updating processors, graphics cards/chips, etc.

But now that they're competing head-to-head with PC technology, this won't EVER happen. It was not accidental that Yonah debuted on MBP's before Dell, HP and Sony started selling them. No, Apple will have them out of the chute as soon as anyone else does (Intel probably won't give Apple first dibs this time - that was probably a Yonah bribe to get Apple to commit to Intel), which means there's no way we'll be waiting until Christmas (unless some production snafu makes EVERYONE wait that long.)

Announcement in August, shipping in September maybe?

:cool:

iBorg

macman4291
Jul 23, 2006, 10:57 PM
If the new macbook pros are only different in the chips, will there be a way to upgrade to core 2 duo if you have a previous macbook pros?

islanders
Jul 23, 2006, 11:01 PM
Not likely.

In the "old days" (i.e. pre-Intel) Apple could do this, keep selling outdated technology to clear out inventory before updating processors, graphics cards/chips, etc.

They had no other choiceÖ g3 or g4.


But now that they're competing head-to-head with PC technology, this won't EVER happen. It was not accidental that Yonah debuted on MBP's before Dell, HP and Sony started selling them. No, Apple will have them out of the chute as soon as anyone else does (Intel probably won't give Apple first dibs this time - that was probably a Yonah bribe to get Apple to commit to Intel), which means there's no way we'll be waiting until Christmas (unless some production snafu makes EVERYONE wait that long.)

Announcement in August, shipping in September maybe?

:cool:

iBorg



September ďmaybeĒ is not to far from November!

Someone had to take a pragmatic position. Might as well be me.

Ok. Merom is going to happen for MBP September (maybe), October and Novermber (probably) December (maybe).

However, it has always been my conviction that not even Apple knows these exact dates. If sales are strong they put off updates, if they are slack they roll out new stuff.

This time Intel jumped the gun so Apple may take longer to respond.

iBorg20181
Jul 23, 2006, 11:14 PM
If sales are strong they put off updates, if they are slack they roll out new stuff.

This time Intel jumped the gun so Apple may take longer to respond.

You missed my entire point - Apple can't put off updates just because "sales are strong." The "other guys" (Dell, HP, Sony, etc.) upgrade to new technology as soon as they can ramp up production, and Apple won't be, and can't be, "late to the dance" with technology that they all have simultaneous access to. Particularly CPU's. Graphics chips .... well, there they may fudge a bit, especially with 2 brands to select from, but not processor upgrades.

There's no way we'll wait until "November/December," unless Intel fails to deliver Merom, as predicted. If any laptops have Merom sooner, so will Apple.

:cool:

iBorg

Multimedia
Jul 23, 2006, 11:24 PM
If the new macbook pros are only different in the chips, will there be a way to upgrade to core 2 duo if you have a previous macbook pros?No. Processors Are Soldered In MacBooks and MacBook Pros So No Upgrades Are Possible.

The way you do the upgrade is by selling your current model and buying the next one. It's called rolling over your Mac for the next one. Some of us here have done it numerous times. It's not hard to get a good price for your used Mac. By doing this at the beginning of every update, it only cost you a few hundred dollars to move up each time.

islanders
Jul 23, 2006, 11:36 PM
You missed my entire point - Apple can't put off updates just because "sales are strong." The "other guys" (Dell, HP, Sony, etc.) upgrade to new technology as soon as they can ramp up production, and Apple won't be, and can't be, "late to the dance" with technology that they all have simultaneous access to. Particularly CPU's. Graphics chips .... well, there they may fudge a bit, especially with 2 brands to select from, but not processor upgrades.

There's no way we'll wait until "November/December," unless Intel fails to deliver Merom, as predicted. If any laptops have Merom sooner, so will Apple.

:cool:

iBorg






I think you have a reluctance to find some common ground, as was suggested in my previous post.

I said November.

You said ďSeptember Maybe.Ē

Which leaves August unlikely, and December pushing it.

However I will stand by my original post, that if I was planning to upgrade to a MBP Merom, I would be prepared to wait until December. As most experts have predicted a switch before the new year.

Otherwise I think everyone understands both schools of thought here, which have already been suggested numerous times in previous post.

Although, I think Apple will hurt themselves more in the long run if they announce an update and canít meet demand.

:cool:

DJMastaWes
Jul 23, 2006, 11:46 PM
Anyone waiting for MBP Merom should be prepared to wait until November/December.
This better not be the case. There is NO way I'm waiting untill then for a MacBook Pro. I don't think apple will wait that long, I think WWDC is likely, and if not I would say at Paris.

Multimedia
Jul 23, 2006, 11:46 PM
I said November for Merom MacBook Pros.

You said “September Maybe.”

Which leaves August unlikely, and December pushing it.

However I will stand by my original post, that if I was planning to upgrade to a MBP Merom, I would be prepared to wait until December. As most experts have predicted a switch before the new year.

Otherwise I think everyone understands both schools of thought here, which have already been suggested numerous times in previous post.

Although, I think Apple will hurt themselves more in the long run if they announce an update and can’t meet demand.I agree with you about November. But not for MBP - for Merom in MacBooks. I think since Merom is already shipping early it's a safe bet we'll see Merom MacBook Pros running @ 2.33GHz in September. November would have to be the drop dead date for Merom MacBooks still running @ 2GHz since above that speed they are way too expensive to go into MacBooks.This better not be the case. There is NO way I'm waiting untill then for a MacBook Pro. I don't think apple will wait that long, I think WWDC is likely, and if not I would say at Paris.Exactly. The Tuesday September 12 Paris Apple Expo Keynote is the latest MBP will be announced as "shipping today".

islanders
Jul 23, 2006, 11:50 PM
Also, I have been inconsistent in my post. On page 5 or so, I was crying for a roll out, then did a 180 after a little research.

Some call it speculation. It's also more fun if you don't research.

Iím going to cut my losses and leave it up to the pros.

I enjoyed the ride. Thanks for the responses!

DJMastaWes
Jul 24, 2006, 12:00 AM
I agree with you about November. But not for MBP - for Merom in MacBooks. I think since Merom is already shipping early it's a safe bet we'll see Merom MacBook Pros running @ 2.33GHz in September. November would have to be the drop dead date for Merom MacBooks still running @ 2GHz since above that speed they are way too expensive to go into MacBooks.Exactly. The Tuesday September 12 Paris Apple Expo Keynote is the latest MBP will be announced as "shipping today".
I guess I can wait till then. But do you think they will annouce at WWDC, and then say Shipping soon or something, like they did in january?

ezekielrage_99
Jul 24, 2006, 12:19 AM
Not likely.

In the "old days" (i.e. pre-Intel) Apple could do this, keep selling outdated technology to clear out inventory before updating processors, graphics cards/chips, etc.

But now that they're competing head-to-head with PC technology, this won't EVER happen. It was not accidental that Yonah debuted on MBP's before Dell, HP and Sony started selling them. No, Apple will have them out of the chute as soon as anyone else does (Intel probably won't give Apple first dibs this time - that was probably a Yonah bribe to get Apple to commit to Intel), which means there's no way we'll be waiting until Christmas (unless some production snafu makes EVERYONE wait that long.)

Announcement in August, shipping in September maybe?

:cool:

iBorg

That's a pretty good analysis, all probability Applw will have to update their products very soon and it wouldn't surprise me to see a new Mac Pro and Macbook Pro update in August.

macman4291
Jul 24, 2006, 12:39 AM
No. Processors Are Soldered In MacBooks and MacBook Pros So No Upgrades Are Possible.

The way you do the upgrade is by selling your current model and buying the next one. It's called rolling over your Mac for the next one. Some of us here have done it numerous times. It's not hard to get a good price for your used Mac. By doing this at the beginning of every update, it only cost you a few hundred dollars to move up each time.

Would it be worth it rolling over my 17 in macbook pro, w/ a 2.16 core duo to a macbook pro w/ merom chip and other new attributes. Would there be a significant difference in speed , ect. that would make it worth it. , and if so, what would i do about my registered applecare protection plan?

Multimedia
Jul 24, 2006, 12:40 AM
I guess I can wait till then. But do you think they will annouce at WWDC, and then say Shipping soon or something, like they did in january?It's anybody's guess. They are due a refresh. And with Merom already shipping it's a 50-50 chance Steve will do that. I'm saying September 12 Paris is the latest. WWDC August 7 is certainly possible. I have no clue if he will or not. Anyone else here have a clue? If so, they're probably pulling it out of their butt. :D :eek: :p ;)

Multimedia
Jul 24, 2006, 02:31 AM
Would it be worth it rolling over my 17 in macbook pro, w/ a 2.16 core duo to a macbook pro w/ merom chip and other new attributes. Would there be a significant difference in speed , ect. that would make it worth it and if so, what would i do about my registered applecare protection plan?Your Applecare is transferable to the next owner not to your next Mac. I doubt your 17" top of the line MBP will be much different from the next version. But if they go Black Anodized Aluminum - as some of us think they will (including me) - cosmetically it will be very different. Best way to stay current is to sell on eve of or right at the point of the announcement. If you can swing it, buying the next one before selling what you have is the easiest way since you don't have to be without one.

I'm looking for:

1. Merom @ 2.33 GHz
2. User Upgradable HD like in the MacBook
3. 4GB RAM possible
4. Santa Rosa chipset (not due 'til Spring '07)
5. 17" like you have
6. Black Anodized Aluminum
7. 802.11n
8. 10-Gigabit Ethernet
10. Leopard Onboard
11. Refurbished

So I'm gonna only go refurb MacBook meanwhile if anything at all. I really spend most of my time on the Quad since it is so powerful. I'm multitasking something fierce lately. But I don't want 4 other cores. I want 8 with Leopard. So I'm pretty much in a holding pattern until all the above happen on the mobile front. I will especially NOT pull the trigger until they redesign to make upgrading the HD as easy as it is to do on the lowly MacBook.

spetznatz
Jul 24, 2006, 03:12 AM
Aplogies if this has been done before, and it's a little off-topic, but this is a link to an article about OS X performance on Core 2 Extreme (Conroe)

http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/article.php?id=461

Basically, they've installed a "floating" copy of OS X intel onto an intel mobo with C2E.

I thought this line was particularly impressive:

"These last two tests were also conducted on that same PC with Windows installed and we see the Mac performing as well as Windows in Cinebench and a mere 3% slower in Photoshop which is especially impressive considering that Photoshop CS2 was running under Rosetta on the Mac. "

Who needs to wait for CS3?

Edit: on reflection, I'm not sure if I believe this...do you think it might be a hoax?

daneoni
Jul 24, 2006, 03:28 AM
Aplogies if this has been done before, and it's a little off-topic, but this is a link to an article about OS X performance on Core 2 Extreme (Conroe)

http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/article.php?id=461

Basically, they've installed a "floating" copy of OS X intel onto an intel mobo with C2E.

I thought this line was particularly impressive:

"These last two tests were also conducted on that same PC with Windows installed and we see the Mac performing as well as Windows in Cinebench and a mere 3% slower in Photoshop which is especially impressive considering that Photoshop CS2 was running under Rosetta on the Mac. "

Who needs to wait for CS3?

Edit: on reflection, I'm not sure if I believe this...do you think it might be a hoax?

Yeah something just doesnt feel right. OS X recognises a 2.93GHz chip as 4GHz? and since when does Apple put in CPU features in system profiler?

Half Glass
Jul 24, 2006, 07:54 AM
Yeah something just doesnt feel right. OS X recognises a 2.93GHz chip as 4GHz? and since when does Apple put in CPU features in system profiler?

Ok, so I hate to admit it, but I can confirm from my experimental days that OSX 86 reports at least P4 CPUs innaccurately as mentioned above. The system profiler in OSX86 does attempt to describe the chip. My HT P4 2.4 GHz was reported as a 3.something. Don't know if it was the hyperthreading or the HT coupled with the OSX86 hacked version itself was the problem in the reporting.

I can say that I never got anywhere in terms of stability with the experiment. Video card was the biggest problem. Hey, I was curious.

I still have an eMac (wife's) and just like Multimedia mentioned above, I sold my PowerMac dual 2.0 last week for top $$ before the new ones are released. Have you ever met anyone who made a profit on a computer 9 months later? Bought the dual processor from the apple store *right* after the dual cores were announced. They took $500 off. I can't believe what people are paying on eBay knowing that the change is days away. But, they still got a great machine below current market value.

Since I don't make a living on my Mac and I have my wife's for email/internet I can go without one for a few weeks (but it's hard!). I am anxiously awaiting the announcements with Conroe/Merom. I bought my P-Mac only because of the original deal I got. With the $$ from it's sale, I don't know if I'll be getting a P-Mac or an iMac.

Add my name to the list of people wanting a midrange tower.

--Half Glass

Eidorian
Jul 24, 2006, 07:58 AM
Ok, so I hate to admit it, but I can confirm from my experimental days that OSX 86 reports at least P4 CPUs innaccurately as mentioned above. The system profiler in OSX86 does attempt to describe the chip. My HT P4 2.4 GHz was reported as a 3.something. Don't know if it was the hyperthreading or the HT coupled with the OSX86 hacked version itself was the problem in the reporting.Yeah, OS X seems to report non-standard Intel chips as "Genuine Intel". I wouldn't be surprised if it goes into a debug mode.

Willis
Jul 24, 2006, 08:41 AM
hmm, just checked the Apple Edu Store (UK) and i noticed the 20" iMac was a 5-7 day. Checked the standard Store, same thing. Wonder if that means they may put the Merom/Conroe in a 20" and keep the yonah in the 17?

Most likely not, but no harm in having a shot in the dark.

bryanc
Jul 24, 2006, 09:58 AM
I'm going to be using my laptop for teaching in the fall, which means some fairly strenuous 3D molecular rendering, large movies, wireless internet and standard keynote (all simultaneously, of course), as well as the standard day-to-day chores.

I could manage with my ageing G4 AlBook (it continues to run like a champ, but it's a bit slow for the 3D molecular rendering, and it staggers a little with the big animations) but it occurred to me that, even with daily backups, should I have a catastrophic system failure, I couldn't get a replacement in time for the next lecture. So I've decided to buy a new laptop, and keep my venerable G4 AlBook as a backup system.

But I want any new system to be 64-bit, and otherwise as 'future-proof' as possible, so I'm going to hold out for the new merom-based MBPs. I'm really excited about the possibility of going top-of-the-line for the first time ever. I'm hoping for a system that looks like this:

17" anodized black MBP, with 2.66 GHz Core 2 Duo CPU, 1 GB RAM, a 7200 rpm 120 GB HD, 802.11n, and a blu-ray Superdrive. Should be just over $3k with my educational discount, right?

Cheers

Surreal
Jul 24, 2006, 10:04 AM
I bought the 17" MBP the day it came out and i must say;


i don't care about these new chips.


that feels really good.


thank you apple. finally.

Multimedia
Jul 24, 2006, 11:49 AM
I'm going to be using my laptop for teaching in the fall, which means some fairly strenuous 3D molecular rendering, large movies, wireless internet and standard keynote (all simultaneously, of course), as well as the standard day-to-day chores.

I could manage with my ageing G4 AlBook (it continues to run like a champ, but it's a bit slow for the 3D molecular rendering, and it staggers a little with the big animations) but it occurred to me that, even with daily backups, should I have a catastrophic system failure, I couldn't get a replacement in time for the next lecture. So I've decided to buy a new laptop, and keep my venerable G4 AlBook as a backup system.

But I want any new system to be 64-bit, and otherwise as 'future-proof' as possible, so I'm going to hold out for the new memrom-based MBPs. I'm really excited about the possibility of going top-of-the-line for the first time ever. I'm hoping for a system that looks like this:

17" anodized black MBP, with 2.66 GHz Core 2 Duo CPU, 1 GB RAM, a 7200 rpm 120 GB HD, 802.11n, and a blu-ray Superdrive. Should be just over $3k with my educational discount, right?Some of your feature list is not imminent. Blu-ray is too expensive. 802.11n is still another 6+ months off. Merom tops out at 2.33GHz for now. :)

Multimedia
Jul 24, 2006, 11:55 AM
I sold my PowerMac dual 2.0 last week for top $$ before the new ones are released. Have you ever met anyone who made a profit on a computer 9 months later? Bought the dual processor from the apple store *right* after the dual cores were announced. They took $500 off. I can't believe what people are paying on eBay knowing that the change is days away. But, they still got a great machine below current market value.So how much did you sell it for and what technique did you use to sell it? :)

BYW I would advise against selling a G5 Quad no matter how much more powerful the Intel Quad is. The first and only PPC with 4 cores is a true collectors' item that I would encourage anyone to buy instead of a Conroe Core 2 Duo Mac Pro. 4 cores trumps 2 cores no matter what the processor.

Wonder if that's true or not. :confused: :eek: