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MacRumors
Jul 22, 2006, 08:30 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Engadget claims (http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/22/apple-to-do-ebooks/) that according to two separate "trustworthy" sources, Apple is working on incorporating electronic books into the next versions of the iPod.

We'd say the possibility is very real, since according to a source at a major publishing house, they were just ordered to archive all their manuscripts -- every single one -- and send them over to Apple's Cupertino HQ.

They also claim that the upcoming iPod will have "a substantial amount of screen real estate" alongwith a book-reading mode for easy reading. This rumor is consistent with long-standing rumors of a full screen video iPod (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/03/20060302125931.shtml) that would launch alongside iTunes Movie sales.

Engadget believes that Apple would also launch electronic book sales via iTunes as well to provide content for this new iPod functionality. The reliability of Engadget's sources are unknown.

PlaceofDis
Jul 22, 2006, 08:32 PM
honestly. i would love this.

andiwm2003
Jul 22, 2006, 08:33 PM
i'm using my ipod 90% for audiobooks. if i could read books and journals it would be great. damn, apple, another $400 goes down......:eek:

atticus1178
Jul 22, 2006, 08:35 PM
i think i would rather read a paperback

wouldnt the screen strain the eyes?

boncellis
Jul 22, 2006, 08:37 PM
I agree that this would be cool, but what would make it even better is enhanced iSync or other capability for third parties to take advantage and make content available. I suppose the iTMS could handle it, but the user should be able to load whatever he or she wants on it, I would think.

PlaceofDis
Jul 22, 2006, 08:39 PM
I agree that this would be cool, but what would make it even better is enhanced iSync or other capability for third parties to take advantage and make content available. I suppose the iTMS could handle it, but the user should be able to load whatever he or she wants on it, I would think.

well as long as it can be imported into iTunes then its all good.

Marble
Jul 22, 2006, 08:42 PM
And I was hoping I wouldn't go blind before forty. Sheesh.

rye9
Jul 22, 2006, 08:45 PM
kinda useless for such a small screen i think

mark!
Jul 22, 2006, 08:51 PM
didn't people read about it having a bigger screen?

david_r_p
Jul 22, 2006, 09:00 PM
If it's going to have a huge screen why not make it have a satellite based navigation system too. That would be handy...

As for the reader, sounds cool to me! :)

narco
Jul 22, 2006, 09:03 PM
I remember reading rumors that there will also be text-to-speech features in the new iPod. If they combine books and this, that'd be awesome.

I don't care about screen real estate, eBook readers or any of that. Give me a 100GB hard drive!

Fishes,
narco.

TheAnswer
Jul 22, 2006, 09:05 PM
Throw in a spanish-english dictionary with either voice recognition or the ability to spell out the word to find the meaning and I am there.

And add the ability to make voice notes in the margins, and highlight text.

If this is true, it will probably be the end of buying books for me. Imagine the trees saved, the gas and space saved in moving vans. The empty spaces in shopping malls and big block shopping centers.

"What's a book mommy?" "Well, It was like an iPod, but made out of trees"

Evan_11
Jul 22, 2006, 09:06 PM
I'm not sure about novels but I would love to be able to read articles from Time, Wired, New Yorker et cetera on my iPod. In the past I've copied them from the web and transferred them into a 'note' file for viewing on my iPod. However I'd love to be able to download them from iTunes like a podcast. 99 cents wouldn't be un-reasonable if it's a well written article and it's advertisement free.

Fabio_gsilva
Jul 22, 2006, 09:07 PM
I think that the more, the merrier.

I'd would be cool to keep the hype about the iPod high, including a completely new funcionality in mp3 players. IMHO, it would capitalize more sales to Apple and a whole knew interest in iPods.

Specially now that Microsoft confirmed the Zune...
http://www.macuser.com/rivals/microsoft_confirms_zune_a_stor.php

g-man2
Jul 22, 2006, 09:10 PM
Maybe a whole new kind of display using E ink. Sony has something called a Reader that uses it. It draws very little power, none at all if the background is static and unmoving.

Look at it here. http://www.eink.com/

nagromme
Jul 22, 2006, 09:11 PM
This rumor has popped up before--and I think it's almost a BETTER use of a large(r) screen than videos. If my music was already in my pocket, and then as an "extra" with no additional bulk I could also have a book to read, that would be very cool.

As with movies, though, I'd prefer a subscription model (and priced low accordingly). I seldom watch the same movie--or read the same book--twice. It's not like music.

Stella
Jul 22, 2006, 09:16 PM
Sounds great. Better than carrying a real book around (*assuming you don't run out of batteries ).

There are ebook readers for PDAs and Smartphone - there's no reason why it shouldn't work with iPods.

Good progression of the iPod.

bretm
Jul 22, 2006, 09:16 PM
Last time I checked iPods and batteries aren't much of a renewable resource. Throw in a spanish-english dictionary with either voice recognition or the ability to spell out the word to find the meaning and I am there.

And add the ability to make voice notes in the margins, and highlight text.

If this is true, it will probably be the end of buying books for me. Imagine the trees saved, the gas and space saved in moving vans. The empty spaces in shopping malls and big block shopping centers.

"What's a book mommy?" "Well, It was like an iPod, but made out of trees"

blueflame
Jul 22, 2006, 09:19 PM
apple needs to fix the video handling of movies in itunes before anyhting can really be done, its a real mess right now
andreas

rockthecasbah
Jul 22, 2006, 09:23 PM
meh i don't fancy eBooks, give me a plain ol' paperback or hard cover anyday, even if it is a bit larger :p

thedude110
Jul 22, 2006, 09:27 PM
wouldnt the screen strain the eyes?

Yes. Yes it would.

Until display resolution matches paper resolution, the e-book will remain relatively unpopular.

This does seem to make a serious run at the "iPod for Education" crowd, though -- fighting to keep brand loyalty with the kids, I spose ...

Max on Macs
Jul 22, 2006, 09:27 PM
Well if they make it so you can zoom in or choose your text size then that'd be awesome. Otherwise, for those of us who are visually impaired, it's a load of *****.

Luis
Jul 22, 2006, 09:30 PM
I think reading from my ipod would give me headaches..... It would maybe be okay for short stories or headlines you could load on it, but a whole book??? cmon even if they make a big screen it would never be bigger than the screen of a paperback and just imagine if reading a really long text from the computer strains some peoples eyes what would a small screen do to you?

gregbenj
Jul 22, 2006, 09:30 PM
Integrate motion sensors! With a flick of the wrist, the page will turn. Hot Damn!

bigjohn
Jul 22, 2006, 09:31 PM
i hope it comes with a battery that lasts two or three days. the last thing i'd do is read a book connected to an adapter.

richdun
Jul 22, 2006, 09:48 PM
Integrate motion sensors! With a flick of the wrist, the page will turn. Hot Damn!

Three words: Etch. A. Sketch.

jwp1964
Jul 22, 2006, 09:48 PM
"a substantial amount of screen real estate" ...

This sounds like the 8lb iPod SJ previously mentioned! I am looking forward to this thing...whatever form it takes...:p

zim
Jul 22, 2006, 09:48 PM
this would be fantastic.. ebooks and i would also like to see pdf added to the list!! the current text feature is nice but adding pdf abilities would be better :)

kev0476
Jul 22, 2006, 09:55 PM
Last time I checked iPods and batteries aren't much of a renewable resource.


But wind energy is, so one ipod versus piles of books, we could finally stop all this senseless logging.

banjomamo
Jul 22, 2006, 10:08 PM
But wind energy is, so one ipod versus piles of books, we could finally stop all this senseless logging.


Save 5,000 trees with your iPod.

ceruleanventure
Jul 22, 2006, 10:12 PM
First my poor Palm Zire got replaced as an mp3 player by my ipod....and now this lol. Goodbye Zire :D

animefan_1
Jul 22, 2006, 10:16 PM
I agree that this would be cool, but what would make it even better is enhanced iSync or other capability for third parties to take advantage and make content available. I suppose the iTMS could handle it, but the user should be able to load whatever he or she wants on it, I would think.

pdf's sound like a good start to me. :D

dllavaneras
Jul 22, 2006, 10:16 PM
This could help many students take a quick look at an e-book to verify or check some info while studying, instead of lugging around a ton of books

EDIT: Just a quick question: would this e-book feature be able to see images embedded in the e-book? or just text?

animefan_1
Jul 22, 2006, 10:19 PM
"a substantial amount of screen real estate" ...

This sounds like the 8lb iPod SJ previously mentioned! I am looking forward to this thing...whatever form it takes...:p

Except this iPod would only be 2 lbs...or less.

sam10685
Jul 22, 2006, 10:20 PM
kinda useless for such a small screen i think

dude-- they're making the screen bigger. i don't know how, but they are.

msandersen
Jul 22, 2006, 10:20 PM
Integrate motion sensors! With a flick of the wrist, the page will turn. Hot Damn!
Heh, and just like a real book, if there's a sudden draft, all the pages will flick past and you'll lose you place.

Considering that one of the first uses for most new technologies (such as the "book" and "moving pictures") has traditionally been porn, why not have an emergency "boss" or "wife" button to flick to a boring business report or something else preconfigured. Of course that might only work if they don't know of the feature themselves. iPorn. Gotta Love It.

sam10685
Jul 22, 2006, 10:26 PM
Save 5,000 trees with your iPod.

people are always worried about "save the trees..." and "there's too much over-population..." Have u ever flown over this country? there's thousands of acres of nothingness. i'm confused.

msandersen
Jul 22, 2006, 10:28 PM
eInk sounds interesting for B&W eBook readers and the like, less so if you want a Video iPod as well, at least at this stage.
http://www.eink.com/products/matrix/High_Res.html

Mac Fly (film)
Jul 22, 2006, 10:33 PM
http://www.macsimumnews.com/index.php/archive/will_apple_challenge_sonys_upcoming_ebook_due_this_summer/


Need I say more...

qwerter
Jul 22, 2006, 10:35 PM
I use an ancient Handspring Visor to read ebooks and random articles I find online. The notes feature on the iPod is useless to me because it's too small. If Apple makes a decent e-reader for a big-screen iPod, it means one less thing I have to carry around with me on the train.

Me likey. Bring it.

JackSYi
Jul 22, 2006, 10:37 PM
I would definitely want to read it in print form.

Mac Fly (film)
Jul 22, 2006, 10:52 PM
..ok I will!

Quote from Macsimum News's article on Apple's patent: ”Further on, the patent goes on to describe a new multiple-page-swipe technology that will allow users to virtually-flip through pages quickly as they naturally do today with a magazine or technical book" Wow wow wow!!

More quotes: 2004 - Jobs stated that “I’ve always wanted to own and control the primary technology in everything we do.” Close to a year later, MacWorld UK recorded Steve Jobs stating that “No other company does it all. The PC ecosystem where one company makes the hardware another makes the software doesn’t work, we do all of them”, he added.” So if the Apple Doctrine prevails, then I’d be expecting some kind of news concerning an advanced e-book reader by the time Leopard rolls out.:eek:

msandersen
Jul 22, 2006, 10:54 PM
people are always worried about "save the trees..." and "there's too much over-population..." Have u ever flown over this country? there's thousands of acres of nothingness. i'm confused.
I guess you are at that. If you fly over my country, Australia, you'll see huge deserts for thousands of kilometers and not much population. That's the ecology for most of Australia, save the East coast. What population Australia can sustain has long been hotly disputed. But that's not the point. You fly over the Arabian deserts or Siberia in Russina, you won't see a lot of vegetation or people either. Not everywhere is suitable for people, livestock or agriculture. America has a lot of different climates and ecosystems too, including vast deserts. But some of those wide open spaces used to be covered in forest, remember. It's the deforestation of the fertile areas, which are also ideal for agriculture and populations, which is a worry. None more so than the Amazon or Malaysia.

Since the dawn of the PC era, they predicted that computers would cut our use of paper drastically, since we would have little need of it. The reality is vastly different. Our consumption doubled in short order with the advent of the affordable printer. We are far more prone to wasting paper than ever; a tiny typo, or a smudge on the page? Reprint the entire 50-page report. Photocopiers has thousands of students copying entire sets of books from the library. It's easy, convenient and cheap. Rainforest timber is what makes it cheap, alas. iPods and an iTunes Store with eBook functionality, however popular, even if it starts a huge fad in other brands as well, such as Sony's offerings, won't make much of a difference in the scheme of things, and any savings easily eroded by continual growth in consumption.
Well, in the affluent countries, it could affect the printers of periodicals and maybe newspapers if they're all offered online, or if you can go to the newsagency, download Wired or The Times via BlueTooth with an automatic transaction approved with a thumbprint. Who really want to struggle with huge broadsheet newspapers in the train. Good for publishers, not for printers.

swingerofbirch
Jul 22, 2006, 10:55 PM
This is interesting. Quite a long way from the days of 32 MB Mp3 players.

Apple with their success I am sure has long term visions for the iPod as a platform beyond music. In a way it's a new computer platform for them.

They have already pushed iPods into education at the university level (I never got the utility in that), but with eBook functionality the plot thickens. Students could buy all their textbooks from iTunes. In fact, there already are specific iTunes stores for colleges (the one I am familiar with is Stanford). And of course, some iTunes albums already come with PDFs. This could herald true album art along with the entire booklet stored on the iPod.

iPods are ubiquitous. But books are even more ubiquitous. But what could be even more ubiquitous than a book? An iPod that is both and iPod and a book!

They were smart to give it such a generic name (iPod) with as broad of a platform as it is becoming.

MattyMac
Jul 22, 2006, 11:00 PM
man...I cant WAIT to see what they roll out with!!!

Mac Fly (film)
Jul 22, 2006, 11:01 PM
They were smart to give it such a generic name (iPod) with as broad of a platform as it is becoming.You're smart, I never thought of that. Damn they are smart :cool:

Arclite
Jul 22, 2006, 11:05 PM
Although I would love this idea (I'm an avid eBook reader), I've got a major project for next year in school that hinges on there being no majorly popular online eBook retailer.

MikeTheC
Jul 22, 2006, 11:14 PM
Throw in a spanish-english dictionary with either voice recognition or the ability to spell out the word to find the meaning and I am there.
Oh, I could sooooo say something here, but it would probably be considered a racist flame-bait, so I'll just steer clear of it.

But I would say that it won't be me needing that particular feature...

*mumbles something to self about this being an English-speaking country and runs out of the thread*

stunna
Jul 22, 2006, 11:24 PM
If this is this an add on feature to the ipod video rumors thats been going around
this will be amazing.

xfiftyfour
Jul 22, 2006, 11:29 PM
this might be sweet if i could buy my text books in an e- format (though i'd probably load them into my MB before i would load them onto my ipod). but as it stands (with no option but to cause severe back problems for myself later in life), i'm really not interested in trying to read my ipod.

i want to LISTEN to MUSIC on it.

sheesh. first movies, now books? apple is trying to take over the world! :p ;)

sPAULj
Jul 22, 2006, 11:33 PM
Oh, I could sooooo say something here, but it would probably be considered a racist flame-bait, so I'll just steer clear of it.

But I would say that it won't be me needing that particular feature...

*mumbles something to self about this being an English-speaking country and runs out of the thread*


The internet has no country lines; you arn't racist, but you may possibly be unsensitive to the enviorment in which you are speaking as there are a lot of people who would like to learn the spanish language outside the United States.

Additionally, please remember that although America's most commonly spoken language is English (or several varients of true English), there is no official national language in the United States. The easiest way to make sure that the U.S. stays mainly english (if you want it to) is by simply refusing to do otherwise. Complaining about people who want to learn another language in an atempt to get your point across only makes you look uneducated and rude (and thus is why people would jump to use the term "racist").

appleface
Jul 22, 2006, 11:36 PM
With newspaper profits tanking, this may be the way to resurrect the American newspaper. Grab your iPod off the dock in the morning and read the Times on your iPod while you're sitting on the train.

msandersen
Jul 22, 2006, 11:37 PM
Oh, I could sooooo say something here, but it would probably be considered a racist flame-bait, so I'll just steer clear of it.

But I would say that it won't be me needing that particular feature...

*mumbles something to self about this being an English-speaking country and runs out of the thread*
You probably would. I think Spanish is the world's 2nd-most spoken language. Well, don't know about Chinese... Besides, you are being America-centric here, there are markets outside the US, you know, like Spain. Reference works like Dictionaries and Thesauruses will probably be bestsellers for such a device. If I go somewhere, I could load it with a dictionary for the national language for the country, say English-Spanish. My Spanish is not good, so if it could pronounce it for me, all the better. And I know of English speakers who can't read or spell very well either. My brother's dyslexic, and yet also a programmer. The Spanish were the first to discover and explore America, you know (though 500 years after the Vikings). In Canada they're split between English and French. They're like Americans without the attitude or penchant for invading other countries.

zim
Jul 22, 2006, 11:39 PM
just thinking... add built in text to speech and you have listen to the paper on the way to work :)

what i Love about the iPod is that it is undefined, sure originally released as a music player but it truly has unlimited possibilities. I just wish Apple would speed things up.

macsrockmysocks
Jul 22, 2006, 11:39 PM
I would really rather have a paperback or hard cover book to read than look at a bright light to read. I can see maybe lyrics for songs, but books-no.

sPAULj
Jul 22, 2006, 11:44 PM
I think Spanish is the world's 2nd-most spoken language.

It's the fourth most behind Mandarin, English, and Hindi.

http://www.krysstal.com/spoken.html


(just in case you were wondering)

OdduWon
Jul 22, 2006, 11:45 PM
i think that this is great news. i use my ipod to go over my notes before tests at school and shopping list etc. also in the process of making my notes i thought it would be handy to be able to either use the text to speech command in tiger on the ipod, or to be able to have a free converted to rip text files to an audio format similar to the program that features at&t voices only minus the $29 to get it ( i forget what the app. is called). ebooks are great i know my apt. space is 90% books and i've always thought that paperless books were the way to go. less space and ultra portable. hope to see this in the wide screen ipod. also... if they go touch screen it would be great to be able to edit text and use the dictonary command too. oh man this is going to be soooo cool :D

ZoomZoomZoom
Jul 22, 2006, 11:49 PM
I think that this is a really good idea, if they can get a large enough screen. Add in a few tools like highlighting and a dictionary, and I might consider replacing my nano.

OdduWon
Jul 22, 2006, 11:55 PM
i hope the eventually come out with the macpod concept featured in icreate and also on one of these pages. this would be great and i think that is is a better solution to the screen realestate issue because i know that the finger prints on my psp are anoying and if you are to be constantly scrolling in a circle on this new ipod it would only take a little dirt on the screen to create a permanent "scratch" wheel on your screen and thats about a anoying as watching drawn together through a scratched agent 18 case on a ipod with video.


(edit) oh this is what i'm talki'n about

Mac Fly (film)
Jul 22, 2006, 11:56 PM
I think that this is a really good idea, if they can get a large enough screen. Add in a few tools like highlighting and a dictionary, and I might consider replacing my nano.
I'll quote you on that ;)

YoGramMamma
Jul 22, 2006, 11:56 PM
I think it would be neat to not only add ebooks... but MAGAZINES!

i mean, the ipod is a teen/young person trend for the most part anyway.... why not make Seventeen/Vogue/Vibe/XXL/Cosmopolitan for the iPod. Make it categorized like a podcast... so you scroll to what chapter you want.... then read the articles and see the images that correspond with them. You could subscribe to them like you do podcasts but the magazine companies could make you pay to subscribe. Something along the lines of what you'd pay to buy the paperback... or heck... even more since people would pay it.

You would have to regulate the content though for what is sold in the iTMS. Sure a playboy/hustler magazine would sell a gazillion subscriptions but i dont think you could get away with selling it in the itunes store.... Just make it an open .pdf type of file (or even a proprietary kind, that incorporates .pdfs with .jpg's .aac's and .mov's) where joe schmoe can make his own for his friends... or for his business... and Hugh Hefner can make his own and sell it on his own website. This way any blame of inappropriateness would fall on an external site (ie playboy.com) not Apple.

Think of the possibilites.

THough i HATE DRM you could restrict the ".imagazine" file it to the 5 or 7 people who have your account enabled like they do with music. You could have a parental setting in iTunes for what grade of content was allowed....

you could do a whole bunch.... NY times in your palm, Recipe magazines for mom.... porn for timmy.... Businessweek/ PC Mag for dad....

ANd you would have have have to make it where one could view the paper/magazine from the computer. Maybe this could be via Bluetooth or USB.

My mind is going cuh-razy

Demoman
Jul 23, 2006, 12:00 AM
apple needs to fix the video handling of movies in itunes before anyhting can really be done, its a real mess right now
andreas

please rethink that statement.

OdduWon
Jul 23, 2006, 12:04 AM
does anyone else feellike the ipod needs to be quicker? some times it takes like five to ten seconds for it to start playing songs of movies, maybe the interface is so simple that i tell it what to do too fast and get ahead of it? also if you listen to music and browse your pics some times the music skipps. maybe the nvidia chips will cure this?

OdduWon
Jul 23, 2006, 12:07 AM
[QUOTE=YoGramMamma]I think it would be neat to not only add ebooks... but MAGAZINES!

if they did this like on the icreate web page, where the sample mag is, it would be cool. you click and drag the page to turn it. would be cool to use the core technologies to bring the magazines to life on the ipod

Iroganai
Jul 23, 2006, 12:09 AM
I hope the new iPod's ebook mode can handle PDF files. That would rock.

There're some portable ebook reader out there, say Sony's, but they
are too closed source and you can only put documents you bought, not the documents you made yourself. I hope Apple won't take that stupid approach...

OdduWon
Jul 23, 2006, 12:12 AM
i think that since you can create your own pics, movies, podcasts, and text for the i pod know, that they will let you expand your ilife tools to create pdf too without having to buy them.

treysmay
Jul 23, 2006, 12:18 AM
this document reading feature just coincides with the wireless rumors. If the Ipod can load web pages. why wouldn't it be able to translate Word, PDF and other popular formats. I would by one, but this sounds as if it would be more delicate than the 5g that I own, the 5g is definitely on the breakable side. could you imagine how much more screen you have to crack, and more pixels to go dead?

OdduWon
Jul 23, 2006, 12:26 AM
this document reading feature just coincides with the wireless rumors. If the Ipod can load web pages. why wouldn't it be able to translate Word, PDF and other popular formats. I would by one, but this sounds as if it would be more delicate than the 5g that I own, the 5g is definitely on the breakable side. could you imagine how much more screen you have to crack, and more pixels to go dead?

true, there is more to break. apple should make it's own brand of cases. the agent 18 that i have is great but it have defects in the viewing area and ( at certain angles ) an multi color look that looks like gas on water. in the sun this is annoying. apple should make cases that fit perfectly and are economical enough that they can be replaced or repaire. though this might make the ipod look fragile if they have to create a seperate case to protect it. but anything is better that the lame leather case that comes with the nano

noservice2001
Jul 23, 2006, 12:26 AM
oh my... will the nano do ebooks?

GoCubsGo
Jul 23, 2006, 12:30 AM
If it's going to have a huge screen why not make it have a satellite based navigation system too. That would be handy...

As for the reader, sounds cool to me! :)
OK for the navi I would do it in a heartbeat! I'd buy another I mean. Right now, full touch screen makes me giggle, but doesn't make me want to write a check for it.

stcanard
Jul 23, 2006, 12:38 AM
i think i would rather read a paperback

wouldnt the screen strain the eyes?

I used to think that, but then I started using my old (now deceased) Kyocera 7135 smartphone to read books. Smaller screen than the iPod, not as high resolution. At one point I read Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire in a single weekend on it, with absolutely no feelings of eye strain. It's not an issue any more.

I found when reading on a smart phone I actually preferred it over a paperback -- easier to hold open (so I could sip my coffee), no worries about losing the page, backlight meant that I could read on the bus in the morning on the way to work, or other places where lighting wasn't always convenient.

Additionally I found I read more, because I always had several books with me, and they were always handy -- standing in a supermarket lineup, I could pull it out and read 2 or 3 pages while waiting.

These days I've even experimented with using j2me to read books on my T610. Not as comfy as the Kyocera, but again no issues with eye strain.

If the T610 is readable, the iPod will be no problem...

peterjhill
Jul 23, 2006, 12:45 AM
http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/06/sony-reader-details-and-pics/

I have been waiting for the release of Sony's product. As a network engineer, I would love to download all of Cisco's PDF release notes and command references and have them at hand. I would also be able to upload pdfs of network maps. Plus it will be able to deal with RSS feeds, so I could subscribe to NYT feeds and have a personal newspaper.

If the ipod can top the ereader, it will drive sony crazy.

msandersen
Jul 23, 2006, 12:56 AM
It's the fourth most behind Mandarin, English, and Hindi.

http://www.krysstal.com/spoken.html


(just in case you were wondering)
Well there you go, was wondering about Chinese (mainly Mandarin), didn't think of Hindi. So English is only the 2nd most spoken language, huh. Add Spanish and Portuguese, and it would be 2nd! Well OK, not how it works...
So Mandarin, English, Spanish and possibly Hindi dictionaries should be hot sellers on an eBookPod then.

Compatiblepoker
Jul 23, 2006, 12:58 AM
I'm personally not a huge fan of ebooks in the first place but on an iPod....come on. Too much strain for me.

the.snitch
Jul 23, 2006, 01:02 AM
This makes perfect sense - it fits in well with Apple's iPod/iTMS business model.
I have a ton of eBooks, but i never end up reading a lot of them as I dont like sitting infront of a computer to read them. I was just thinking the other day how i wanted someone to make a stylish, lighweight eBook reader that i could take with me and view in public without looking like an uber dork reading my laptop on the bus etc.
I think Apple may be able to pull this one off. Hopefully the support current formats like .pdf and .chm (also .cbr for comic books) so that i can use my own stuff, as well as some DRM'd apple format for the iTMS content. Much like how we have mp3 and aac support for the audio.

Please apple, something lighweight, long battery life, thin and portable, scratch-resistant, and super high res/high contrast screen (OLED/eInk?).
:)

edit: also magazine support for those macworlds I have in the Zinio reader format would be awesome

fblack
Jul 23, 2006, 01:06 AM
This rumor has popped up before--and I think it's almost a BETTER use of a large(r) screen than videos. If my music was already in my pocket, and then as an "extra" with no additional bulk I could also have a book to read, that would be very cool.

As with movies, though, I'd prefer a subscription model (and priced low accordingly). I seldom watch the same movie--or read the same book--twice. It's not like music.

Interesting...I love to read, the screen would have to be a good size and sharp, if I can adjust the size of the fonts it might save my eyes. This has possibilities...

They should offer both a subscripion model for you and a straight purchase for me. My books are my resources and I refer to them often. I think academics might like this, provided ITMS doesn't offer only pulp.

know-it-all5
Jul 23, 2006, 01:15 AM
As we all have seen over the past few months, there have been loads of rumors going around about these new TRUE video, Gaming, Ebooking, Bluetooth, Internet Capable, Large screened, touch screen, non-touch IPODS.

Honestly, only an idiot would believe each and every rumor. One reason for this is they can't all work together. The other is just reality. Apple prolly could make a productt like this. Some day this super POD may come. Not now. As someone who has followed apple closely for years, here is my opinion on what you will see in new Ipods...

Widescreen (good resolution<not super>)

One form of wireless capabilty (this could be bluetooth, or this could be wireless internet capability to get more music) Im betting bluetooth.

Some form of touchscreen ( there will have to be some special casing, as to prevent scratches)

No REAL games, just stuff that is cooler to play than the crap thats on ipods now (thats not too tough to come up with)

I dont think apple will go into the ebook buisness however i do believe ipods will be pdf capable (likely other formats). This won't be no ipodEBOOK. It will be more of an oppurtunity to have written document easily on an ipod. Personally, I use my ipod hard for important documents. Lets be able to view them.

Saladin
Jul 23, 2006, 01:32 AM
Hasn't anyone played Brain Age on the Nintendo DS? The text does not hurt my eyes at all and I have perfect 20/10 vision. I can play that game for hours straight with no problem. Apple can conquer any resolution problems. The only thing they can't fix is how much people bitch.

sisyphus
Jul 23, 2006, 01:53 AM
oh my... will the nano do ebooks?

Dear God! i hope not! That would practically be an exercise in utter futility!

Good thing my upgrade cycle is coming along... Hmmmm... wait for the 4 core Conroe or not... :D

This large screen iPod (Newton 2? ;-) has potential to become many many things... Interesting times we live in.

dongmin
Jul 23, 2006, 01:53 AM
All gloves are off. Apple has been anticipating this moment for a long time, waiting for Microsoft got in the game to raise the stakes. There's a reason Apple hasn't updated the iPod in so long; they didn't want to tip their hand to Microsoft. As soon as Zune hits the market, Apple will counter with iPod 2.0:

-large screen covering the full face
-touch technology that's activated as you hover your fingers over it
-new Nvidea-powered multimedia chip capable of doing video and 3D
-classic Nintendo games
-eBook reader
-wireless capabilities (I'm not sold on the usefulness of this yet)

This is exciting times...

bobborries
Jul 23, 2006, 01:57 AM
I think I remember Jobs saying that no one wants to read a book with clunky low rez text, an e-book would have to have a sharp high resolution text.

You would have to make a screen that was 300 dpi, people with bad eye sight could enlarge the text.

Measure a paperback book without the margins, it comes to 6.4" X 3.6" at 300dpi that comes to 1920 by 1080 pixels, and that happens to be a HD Video ratio.

wizz0bang
Jul 23, 2006, 02:07 AM
now we have the iPDA or iPalm

mozmac
Jul 23, 2006, 02:17 AM
I would seriously be all over this product. I am still using a 2G iPod that I bought before they even ran on Windows. I've had no reason to switch because it still plays music just fine. However, if I could carry all my music AND all my books in my pocket, I would be sold.

There are many moments throughout the day where you find yourself with 5-10 minutes of downtime. Usually I pull out my BlackBerry and try to find something on the internet to read. I've always wished there was a way I could get some books on there in a format that would be easy to read. Please, Apple, make my dream come true.

thejadedmonkey
Jul 23, 2006, 02:17 AM
All these rumors seem to be leading up to a PDA that doesn't have any input ability. and I think that's exactily what we need.

GregA2
Jul 23, 2006, 02:27 AM
Imagine the trees saved, the gas and space saved in moving vans.

Yeah, but without trucks to move the books around, they would all have to come through the Internet. The Internet isn't something you just dump stuff on. It's NOT a BIG TRUCK. It's a SERIES OF TUBES! ;) :D

c-Row
Jul 23, 2006, 02:46 AM
[...]or if you can go to the newsagency, download Wired or The Times via BlueTooth with an automatic transaction approved with a thumbprint.

The thumbprint thing might turn some people off, but just downloading the latest issue of whatever magazine you want to your iPod at the newsagency... mmh! :)

odedia
Jul 23, 2006, 03:12 AM
1. Engadget are very reliable IMO.
2. This furthers the estimation that the next iPod will have an OLED display. You really can't read an eBook normally on an LCD display, cause your eyes will hurt and the battery will die afte 2 chapters.

Oded S.

eXan
Jul 23, 2006, 03:39 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Engadget claims (http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/22/apple-to-do-ebooks/) that according to two separate "trustworthy" sources, Apple is working on incorporating electronic books into the next versions of the iPod.



They also claim that the upcoming iPod will have "a substantial amount of screen real estate" alongwith a book-reading mode for easy reading. This rumor is consistent with long-standing rumors of a full screen video iPod (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/03/20060302125931.shtml) that would launch alongside iTunes Movie sales.

Engadget believes that Apple would also launch electronic book sales via iTunes as well to provide content for this new iPod functionality. The reliability of Engadget's sources are unknown.

I'd rather read normal book. Screens will make your eyes cry.

ipacmm
Jul 23, 2006, 03:41 AM
I'd rather read normal book. Screens will make your eyes cry.

I agree. I have already lost good eyesight thanks to laptops, computers, blackberries, ipods and the last thing I need is another small device to read off of.

yoak
Jul 23, 2006, 03:45 AM
I think it would be nice for short stories, I donīt think I could finish a novel on an iPod

mstur
Jul 23, 2006, 04:19 AM
Have you ever used a Palm ? Palm ebooks have been around for years, and could not save the Palm platform...
I have bought several of these, stored them on a SD card, and: never got around to read them. It is simply not good to read on such a small screen ! When the first Voyager Hypercard ebooks came out, I used my Powerbook 100 to read "Jurassic Park" during a beach vacation (of course not on the beach, but in the evenings). I kept several of these Hypercard books in my Mac, and used to read them in my office when I had some spare time. I am also using my iPods for audible audiobooks. But even on my PAlm TX I never read more than necessary. It is annoying to have these short lines and to scroll all the time. This is definitely NOT a reading experience !!

And: Steve Jobs never will NEVER implement anything in an iPod which has such a long and miserable history as ebooks...

RodThePlod
Jul 23, 2006, 04:28 AM
I'd rather read normal book. Screens will make your eyes cry.

This is why the content is crucial.

Since April, I have been offering downloadable text-based content for all iPods, (apart from the Shuffle and early models), from my web site.

These are mainly guides that people traveling from place to place would find useful - although I've also got sports guides such as a Wimbledon Tennis guide (which took me ages to create) also available for free download.

I call these Pod SnapShots rather than eBooks because that's what they are - a snapshot of a particular subject that you can flick through quickly to get the information that you need - be that airport guides, store guides, etc.

These are ideally suited to iPods screen size and resolution - any document bigger/longer than that needs a much better screen IMHO - so if these rumors are true it's possible that this new iPod device may be a completely new model focused on documents.

While everyone is focusing on Apple opening a Music Store - they may well be about to pull a fast one and open a Book Store instead! This would be *much* easier technically to implement! ;)

RodC
--
www.expodition.com - for iPod users who love to travel

RedTomato
Jul 23, 2006, 05:47 AM
I read books off electronic devices all the time. The first machine I used was the Nokia 9500

http://reviews.zdnet.co.uk/i/z/rv/2004/09/nokia-9300-400x480.jpg

That's actually a Nokia 9300 but it's similar.

Having the right software is crucial. It needs to be tweakable to show the text at exactly the right font size.

I found it easier to hold the phone vertically not horizionally, and read the text like a vertical newspaper column.

The way the page is turned is crucial too.

Some software can scroll it automatically for you (you pickthe scroll speed, but sometimes it's just a little too fast or a little too slow)- thats suitable for undemanding books or ones where you can read at the same rate for all the way, but for most books manual turn is preferable.

The button to click to turn pages has to fall under your thumb or the right finger to make it an automatic action. For technical books, you need to be able to scroll back and forwards without changing your hand grip.

An unobtrusive system of marking your place, making notes, or marking paragraphs that you want to return to later is also important, but not always available.

When I got fed up with the Nokia 9500 being too big, (and I broke mine) I brought the O2 XDA Mini S

http://www.mobiles.co.uk/cache/2006-07-20-18-06-20/b582200e-0a96-4845-9f49-0ba9d7df606d/o2-xda-mini-s.jpg

It has a tiny screen, 1.5 inches x 2.25 inches (45mm x 65mm) which is getting to be about the same size as the iPod video but I can still read books on it, and have read about 20 so far. I'm very short sighted but I can read it without glasses - just hold it a bit closer.

That tiny screen is probably too small for most people, so I hope Apple's is a bit bigger.

I have a friend who uses his old Palm PDA solely for reading - never mind all the pda functions - he only uses it for reading ebooks.

Platform
Jul 23, 2006, 06:15 AM
This would be great, espessialy if the display would be of a more "reader pleasant" kind, like the new digital paper books from Sony & Co ;)

Piarco
Jul 23, 2006, 06:23 AM
This would persuade more to get the new iPod more than the ability to play full screen movies.... all the rumours around the 6G are quite interesting, lets hope it plays out into something that lives up to them.

mi5moav
Jul 23, 2006, 06:45 AM
I guess we'll see the second coming of the ibook shortly. This will probably be a small tablet size. Is it possible to use two different kind of screen technology on the same screen. OLED and TFT. The only thing is that when I was in Japan earlier this year I saw and used the Sony ereader with eInk it was really a very nice device and the screen feels like a paperback book, it isn't true white and doesn't strain the eyes. I guess, this new device is going to use text recognition and voice over, I don't know if this is going to work since Agnes is not really that great wih expressions, but we'll see. I really have no clue how this is going to pan out, I really would rather have Apple release a gread digital video camera with HD/HD but they have some sort of deal with sony or panasonic that they won't what gives!!!!

Lepton
Jul 23, 2006, 06:57 AM
i think i would rather read a paperback
wouldnt the screen strain the eyes?
Good point, one key to a good book reader is a high pixel density. Of course, that would be great for viewing video, as well..

mi5moav
Jul 23, 2006, 07:01 AM
Are foldable/flexible displays ready? Strange that Xerox shut down Gyricon. I wonder if this product could actually, be sold to Borders and Barnes and Nobles. When you walk into the store instead of seeing paperback and hardbound books, you see hunreds of thousands of these on shelves. This could totaly change the way the publishing/library system works. You have a few of these flexible OLED displays that you just bring or rent from your local library or the book store and then you just go back or download a new one. The only problem is that there would have to be a simple way to charge these since it would be crazy to just stick them in thousands of bases, need to be as easy as slipping them into the shelf. So, if they created som sort of mat like SplashPower they would charge through the plastics. So, you could have these wonderfully moddern bookshelves that actually were splashpowered...And since covers sell books when and individual picked up one of these new Apple ibooks the cover art would have an animation sequence not just a static image. I can just see it now all these ladies picking up and seeing Fabio flexing his muscles on Appple's newest Ibook Ereader with it's flexible OLED display.

Chris Bangle
Jul 23, 2006, 07:11 AM
I think it would be neat to not only add ebooks... but MAGAZINES!

i mean, the ipod is a teen/young person trend for the most part anyway.... why not make Seventeen/Vogue/Vibe/XXL/Cosmopolitan for the iPod. Make it categorized like a podcast... so you scroll to what chapter you want.... then read the articles and see the images that correspond with them. You could subscribe to them like you do podcasts but the magazine companies could make you pay to subscribe. Something along the lines of what you'd pay to buy the paperback... or heck... even more since people would pay it.

You would have to regulate the content though for what is sold in the iTMS. Sure a playboy/hustler magazine would sell a gazillion subscriptions but i dont think you could get away with selling it in the itunes store.... Just make it an open .pdf type of file (or even a proprietary kind, that incorporates .pdfs with .jpg's .aac's and .mov's) where joe schmoe can make his own for his friends... or for his business... and Hugh Hefner can make his own and sell it on his own website. This way any blame of inappropriateness would fall on an external site (ie playboy.com) not Apple.

Think of the possibilites.

THough i HATE DRM you could restrict the ".imagazine" file it to the 5 or 7 people who have your account enabled like they do with music. You could have a parental setting in iTunes for what grade of content was allowed....

you could do a whole bunch.... NY times in your palm, Recipe magazines for mom.... porn for timmy.... Businessweek/ PC Mag for dad....

ANd you would have have have to make it where one could view the paper/magazine from the computer. Maybe this could be via Bluetooth or USB.

My mind is going cuh-razy




Itunes already has FADER magazine

Chris Bangle
Jul 23, 2006, 07:12 AM
does anyone else feellike the ipod needs to be quicker? some times it takes like five to ten seconds for it to start playing songs of movies, maybe the interface is so simple that i tell it what to do too fast and get ahead of it? also if you listen to music and browse your pics some times the music skipps. maybe the nvidia chips will cure this?


I feel the same... My sisters 5g takes days to play a video... My mini on the other hand takes splitseconds.

mac-er
Jul 23, 2006, 07:19 AM
Fake. Apple "ordered" a company to send all its manuscripts to it?

Companies don't "order" each other around....that wouldn't get very far in the business world.

GregA
Jul 23, 2006, 07:27 AM
this would be fantastic.. ebooks and i would also like to see pdf added to the list!! the current text feature is nice but adding pdf abilities would be better :)
And websites, RSS etc. We need a simple way of quickly grabbing a lot of webstuff to synchronise.

Then again - if you take the current iPod, make it full screen, replace the hard disk with 10GB flash ram & bluetooth/wireless (will that combo increase battery life?).... maybe we'll update on the go.


Please apple, something lighweight, long battery life, thin and portable, scratch-resistant, and super high res/high contrast screen (OLED/eInk?).
:)

edit: also magazine support for those macworlds I have in the Zinio reader format would be awesomeIf this happens, would it be as an extension of the existing iPod, or as a similar/related product? Can you imagine a light & thin iPod nano with an 8x6 inch eInk screen, for instance?

Takeo
Jul 23, 2006, 08:25 AM
Fake. Apple "ordered" a company to send all its manuscripts to it?

That's not what the article says. I interpreted it to mean that someone or some department within some publishing company was told... by someone else at the publishing company... to get all of their manuscripts archived and sent over to Apple.

Detlev
Jul 23, 2006, 09:10 AM
I absolutley like this idea. Imagine college professors being able to produce podcast notes (some type of e-book podcast) and students being able to download them.

I also see it being useful for short things like Cliff Notes, written (typed) podcasts, concert programs, newspaper or magazine subscriptions but not front line books. Although, it could work in concert with Project Gutenberg or UPenn's online book programs. The extra screen real estate would be important.

msandersen
Jul 23, 2006, 09:11 AM
That's not what the article says. I interpreted it to mean that someone or some department within some publishing company was told... by someone else at the publishing company... to get all of their manuscripts archived and sent over to Apple.
That was my reading, that they were ordered by their sbosses in the company to get the manuscripts ready and sent to Apple, presumably because of a deal between the two companies.

bigjohn
Jul 23, 2006, 09:20 AM
As soon as Zune hits the market, Apple will counter with iPod 2.0:

Jobs doesn't exactly respond to what other people do, he does his own thing.

That's why we like him so much :)

inkhead
Jul 23, 2006, 09:29 AM
I'd like to point out the reason it is being released at WWDC. It has a form of widgets and internet connectivity options. It will be a whole new platform for developers to release apps. I was told this 6 months ago, by somebody who has always given me Apple rumors correctly.

KingYaba
Jul 23, 2006, 09:42 AM
These white ear budded headphones remind me of the book fahrenheit 451. Soon iPods will now dictate what people read, on top of what people listen to (music, podcasts, audiobook) and what people watch (movies, tv shows).

iPods will rule the world. :eek:

hyperpasta
Jul 23, 2006, 09:44 AM
lakjshdfkljhadsf.

How? Why? Seriously guys. Maybe Apple WILL implement eBook functionality. But if I know something about Apple, they take baby-steps. You can expect ONE insanely-great new feature in the new iPod. No more.

Keebler
Jul 23, 2006, 09:45 AM
If it's going to have a huge screen why not make it have a satellite based navigation system too. That would be handy...

As for the reader, sounds cool to me! :)

this is a great point and something that would totally enhance the ipod line.

here's why:
1. points of reference - my garmn gps has PORs for anywhere i go...picture it: gas stations, restaurants, historical landmarks etc.. i believe it even has cinemas too. think of walking around as a tourist after dloading the map to a new city and know exactly where you are going.

2. memory - maps don't take a lot of memory. my garmin only has 64 or 128 MBs...so, a few songs worth, of maps. and i have ALOT of territory on it. in fact, about 18 driving hours worth, including fully maps of major cities.

3. ipods are already integrated into vehicles and personal gps' are growing huge in popularity. combine this with an impatient society wanting everything in 1 gadget :)

of course, i'm sure the electronic side of things in terms of connecting to sats etc.. might cause issues, but it's an interesting thought at least.

AP_piano295
Jul 23, 2006, 10:07 AM
next ipod to cure cancer

DaveGee
Jul 23, 2006, 10:16 AM
Hey,

Anyone else remember iBrary? A rumor circa 2002 if I remember... Check out the screen shot (luckily I founded still floating around thanks to google).

Edit:

Link to 2002 MOSR discussion (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=13443&highlight=ibrary)

It works by browsing a local book repository, a public Internet library, or a global Internet library (dunno which repository) for books or periodicals. It presently uses a format (.ibook) that is a sort of hybrid between eBooks and Audible.com (it seems that Harry Potter is available in this format). You can listen to the recording of the book as you read, since iBrary syncs the book's text with the recording.

I am also told that it utilizes dramatically improved text-to-speech, which suggests that may be a built-in feature of an upcoming OS update. This allows books which don't have soundtracks to be read by the computer, in any of 4 (currently) voices: Storytime, Narrator, Novella, and Anchorman. The synthesis quality is outstanding, seemingly able to handle emotion quite well.

Services are also available which allow you to lookup words in a dictionary or thesaurus, which may have a connection to Sherlock, or be handled within the app. When you click on the curled page corners there is an (OpenGL powered?) animation of the page flipping.

Dave

Yvan256
Jul 23, 2006, 10:16 AM
Not sure if it's been mentionned, but will this thing be PDF compatible? Or if it's a special format, will OS X have an update to add "print/export" capability for it or will iTunes simply be able to import a lot of different formats and convert for the iPod? :confused:

As for GPS/maps, well, I'd have no choice but to buy this new iPod if it had that feature, especially if it also had speech capabilities ("turn right at next stop", etc).


I'd like to point out the reason it is being released at WWDC. It has a form of widgets and internet connectivity options. It will be a whole new platform for developers to release apps. I was told this 6 months ago, by somebody who has always given me Apple rumors correctly.

I also expect the new iPod, if it's touch-screen and the whole surface is a widescreen display, to have custom apps/games and a new special version of Xcode to develop iPod apps/games. Maybe even the possibility to add your apps/games to iTMS (iTunes Media Store, obviously).

And while we're at it, put Wi-Fi and Safari on it. :D

Chris Bangle
Jul 23, 2006, 10:17 AM
FADER Magazine already on itunes...... If thres already a magazine it cant be hard to get more

tny
Jul 23, 2006, 10:28 AM
Well there you go, was wondering about Chinese (mainly Mandarin), didn't think of Hindi. So English is only the 2nd most spoken language, huh. Add Spanish and Portuguese, and it would be 2nd! Well OK, not how it works...
So Mandarin, English, Spanish and possibly Hindi dictionaries should be hot sellers on an eBookPod then.

Those actually look more like the figures for first languages. English is the most spoken language; Chinese is the most common first language. (English is far and away the most common second language, and many English speakers live in cultures where second-language learning is effectively deprecated, such as the US). However, the difference between English and Chinese is less than 10% for first and second language speakers. (It's even more complicated than that, as the definition of "Chinese" is really more a political matter than a linguistic one; in Europe, the various Chinese "dialects" would be considered separate languages, but they are joined together by a common writing system.)

MacsomJRR
Jul 23, 2006, 10:30 AM
I hope that the screen is nice and easy on the eyes. The issues that I've had with devices that try to do this plus other features (i.e. like a palm device) is that: 1) the screens aren't big enough (the iPod mockups look like they will be OK) 2) scrolling is funky (fluid wheel scrolling could be accurate, fun and easy to use and 3) staring at a bright screen for hours of reading is tough on the eyes and feels a little weird.

This is a pretty exciting feature though, can't wait!:D

MacsomJRR
Jul 23, 2006, 10:33 AM
Fake. Apple "ordered" a company to send all its manuscripts to it?

Companies don't "order" each other around....that wouldn't get very far in the business world.

Obviously they are paying them to do it. I order McDonald's around every time I walk in there and order them to make me a McFlurry. I order Rubio's to make me a 99 cent fish taco. I order myself to shut up now or this could go on for hours:)

tny
Jul 23, 2006, 10:33 AM
That was my reading, that they were ordered by their sbosses in the company to get the manuscripts ready and sent to Apple, presumably because of a deal between the two companies.

The problem with this rumor is that publishing companies most certainly would not send over *manuscripts*, which lack production editing, but rather *page proofs* or even *mechanicals*, which are post-production editing, or (since they're far more likely to have these than proofs), *loose pages* from remaindered or warehoused books. I can't imagine that they would be working from manuscripts, as they would have versioning issues (the manuscript is not the final version of what it published, as authors nearly always make changes to galley proofs, and editors *always* make changes between the manuscript and the galleys; but changes are rarely made after the page proofs, and almost never after the mechanicals); and I can't imagine that anyone in the publishing business would speak of "manuscripts" when what they much more likely to be talking about is loose pages.

50548
Jul 23, 2006, 12:19 PM
You probably would. I think Spanish is the world's 2nd-most spoken language. Well, don't know about Chinese... Besides, you are being America-centric here, there are markets outside the US, you know, like Spain. Reference works like Dictionaries and Thesauruses will probably be bestsellers for such a device. If I go somewhere, I could load it with a dictionary for the national language for the country, say English-Spanish. My Spanish is not good, so if it could pronounce it for me, all the better. And I know of English speakers who can't read or spell very well either. My brother's dyslexic, and yet also a programmer. The Spanish were the first to discover and explore America, you know (though 500 years after the Vikings). In Canada they're split between English and French. They're like Americans without the attitude or penchant for invading other countries.

Agreed...one day "americans" will learn that there is a world (and a much bigger market) out there, before making such comments...

quigleybc
Jul 23, 2006, 12:37 PM
so....let me get this straight..

The new iPod is going to Play Movies, TV, Music, Nintendo games, eBooks, and have a big touch screen....will it have a flip out knife and spoon too? :p

guzhogi
Jul 23, 2006, 12:45 PM
Maybe a whole new kind of display using E ink. Sony has something called a Reader that uses it. It draws very little power, none at all if the background is static and unmoving.

Look at it here. http://www.eink.com/
But does it do color? It would suck if you it was b/c you'd have to buy one iPod that uses this for books/artricles and another for videos.

Porchland
Jul 23, 2006, 01:22 PM
The current iPod is 4.1 x 2.4 inches. A mass market paperback -- which ain't big -- is roughy 7.1 x 4.3 inches, which is almost twice as large as an iPod. Most eBook devices are the size of a mass market paperback or larger. Portable DVD/DVR players are also typically larger than the iPod enclosure.

I am all for a wide format iPod where the screen is the thing, but I'm not sure I want to read a book (or watch movies) on it if it's going to be the same size as the current iPod enclosure.

I suspect it will be larger.

Porchland
Jul 23, 2006, 01:26 PM
These white ear budded headphones remind me of the book fahrenheit 451. Soon iPods will now dictate what people read, on top of what people listen to (music, podcasts, audiobook) and what people watch (movies, tv shows).

iPods will rule the world. :eek:

No, that was commercial radio and network television.

The iPod -- and satellite radio, cable, broadband Internet, etc. -- have diversified what people read, watch and listen to. An iPod video player would continue to broaden the availabilities of diverse content.

dernhelm
Jul 23, 2006, 01:27 PM
didn't people read about it having a bigger screen?
Sure we did. Will it be as big as a paperback?

brepublican
Jul 23, 2006, 02:06 PM
So does this mean brand spanking new eBook capable iPods, with built in WiFi, Bluetooth, Toaster & George Foreman next Tuesday??/

Bonte
Jul 23, 2006, 03:07 PM
Just a quick question: would this e-book feature be able to see images embedded in the e-book? or just text?

I surely hope so, comics and manga would be a huge hit especially in Japan.

The next big thing can be games via iTunes, talk about a controllable environment for the publishers. :rolleyes:

Bonte
Jul 23, 2006, 03:12 PM
I'd like to point out the reason it is being released at WWDC. It has a form of widgets and internet connectivity options. It will be a whole new platform for developers to release apps. I was told this 6 months ago, by somebody who has always given me Apple rumors correctly.

3P apps and games? I'm all for it but it would blur the simplicity of the ipod and effectively make it a PDA, i'm not sure Apple/iPod/iTunes is ready to take this step.

GregA
Jul 23, 2006, 04:58 PM
I surely hope so, comics and manga would be a huge hit especially in Japan.I agree that comics etc would be big.

However - I'm also interested in the electronic Ink technologies that are easy on the eyes and require almost no battery. I doubt Apple would make such a simple device, but who knows.

It would be very interesting to read Lord of the Rings and have the soundtrack playing - synchronised to where you're up to in the book. Or the book with excerpts from the movie.

Yvan256
Jul 23, 2006, 05:09 PM
3P apps and games? I'm all for it but it would blur the simplicity of the ipod and effectively make it a PDA, i'm not sure Apple/iPod/iTunes is ready to take this step.

The competition is ready. Wether they have a good product or not is besides the point. Apple needs to enter that "merged market" soon or the iPod will lose its edge.

The fact is, the less gadgets we have to carry around, the better it is. Except that the "merged gadget" needs to be able to do all things perfectly, no half-baked solutions.

I wouldn't mind an iPod that could play music, play movies, have games/apps, Safari, Mail (and Wi-Fi, obviously). How about a built-in iTMS access too? These things wouldn't make the iPod "not an iPod" as long as its well implemented.

stunna
Jul 23, 2006, 05:47 PM
It's funny because there are devices that allow you to do these things.
Apple allows the normal people to move forward in the technology world.

balamw
Jul 23, 2006, 05:55 PM
The new iPod is going to Play Movies, TV, Music, Nintendo games, eBooks, and have a big touch screen....will it have a flip out knife and spoon too? :p
No need. You'll have the IV for the continuous Kool Aid drip applied subcutaneously at the Apple store when you pick up your new iPod with Kitchen Sink.

B

boncellis
Jul 23, 2006, 06:29 PM
It's funny because there are devices that allow you to do these things.
Apple allows the normal people to move forward in the technology world.

You're right. Apple is a prime example of making otherwise foreign technology mainstream with a little cachet. Sounds simple, but it ain't.

dllavaneras
Jul 23, 2006, 07:05 PM
It would be very interesting to read Lord of the Rings and have the soundtrack playing - synchronised to where you're up to in the book.

WOW! Either you're a really fast reader or that's one long soundtrack! :p

Seriously, from comic books to my college textbooks to CD booklets, this feature would rock! Don't remember exactly how cAMP regulates a particular intracellular reaction? Just head to page XX on your Cellular & Molecular Biology ebook. Wanna read your comic book collection on the bus? Done. Don't remember the name of the Orchestra Director in S&M? (The Metallica album, nothing dirty :rolleyes: ) there you go, check out the booklet.

I see a lot of possibilities!

Tommyg117
Jul 23, 2006, 08:05 PM
This option would be cool. I wouldn't really use it much, but I guess it is nice to know it is available. I read a lot, but I really enjoy books rather than ebooks. They make a nice collection.

Inkling
Jul 23, 2006, 08:15 PM
Most iPods are used in situations where our eyes aren't free to focus on a screen however good--commuting, jogging, biking or whatever. To compete with ebooks from Sony and others, this ebook iPod needs to be able to read text aloud as well as display it on screen.

It also needs to bookmark text and audio files well, so we can resume where we left off and shift between reading and listening without losing our place. And that means multiple bookmarks, not just a mark for the last place we were. (Marking text like a post-it note would also be a plus.)

In addition, iTunes needs to be able to download text books and newscasts (free and by subscription) as easily and automatically as it now does podcasts. Pushing content is always better than pulling it.

Those are things existing ebooks don't do. Add those features to an ebook iPod, and Apple will be miles ahead of the competition. Sony and (soon) Microsoft will be eating their dust.

--Mike Perry, Inkling Books, Seattle
Author: Untangling Tolkien (the one & only book-length chronology for The Lord of the Rings

Me1000
Jul 23, 2006, 08:20 PM
This could be cool!

pubwvj
Jul 23, 2006, 09:03 PM
This is getting closer to an iPal - a handheld computer that does it all. That is my next purchase. It needs to be small but with a full screen and real-world-rugged. Will Apple release it this year?

ezekielrage_99
Jul 23, 2006, 09:41 PM
Sounds like we are getting an iPod Pro if that is at all possible. Personally I think putting too much functionality in to an item like the iPod is a bad idea, I use my iPod Video for music and sometimes a movie or TV episode.

The beauty of the iPod is its simplicity, elegance and ease of use once you start stuffing around with a winning formula then it's doomed to fail.

With that said if an iPod is released with a bigger LCD or OLED screen and a PDA type function I probably would buy it :D :cool:

mccoma
Jul 23, 2006, 09:42 PM
I guess we'll see the second coming of the ibook shortly. This will probably be a small tablet size. Is it possible to use two different kind of screen technology on the same screen. OLED and TFT. The only thing is that when I was in Japan earlier this year I saw and used the Sony ereader with eInk it was really a very nice device and the screen feels like a paperback book, it isn't true white and doesn't strain the eyes. I guess, this new device is going to use text recognition and voice over, I don't know if this is going to work since Agnes is not really that great wih expressions, but we'll see. I really have no clue how this is going to pan out, I really would rather have Apple release a gread digital video camera with HD/HD but they have some sort of deal with sony or panasonic that they won't what gives!!!!

At this point, I hope they split the iPod line into iPods (music / video) and iBooks (music, ebooks).

I, like many on this forum given the comments, cannot read an LCD for a long period of time. Also, the power consumption of a LCD for reading the text probably wouldn't be good. The real promise of the Sony and Royal (?) readers is the eInk. Looking at eInk displays, you get the true white with no eye strain (you have to be told that is not a sticker of the screen it is an actual image on the screen). The power consumption is measured in pages (it has to redraw, not refresh like an LCD). There is a color version, but it doesn't look as developed. All this is perfect for books, but would not work for video. This would seem to be a real problem with an all in one unit. You could allow reading on the LCD, but it would be a pain.

Since Apple just freed up a great trademark, come out with an iBook ebook reader. Allow it to play music, but not video. Make it paperback size with a good interface / spotlight search / bookmarks. Use the standard iPod cord and iTunes. Allow it to read PDF, RTF, DOC, HTML, Text and whatever format Apple uses for the DRM version. Get a lot of textbook companies to sell their books on it and replace a lot of backpacks. A color version would be better so you could get comics / anime.

SiliconAddict
Jul 23, 2006, 11:16 PM
No. Please god no. I don't know how many of you have done e-books but e-books on anything smaller then a 4" screen sucks. HARD.

What Apple needs to do is come out with a dedicated device. Integration seems the only way they can push into another market at this point. (Shades of MS Windows with [insert anything here.] integration.)

What Apple needs to do is form an alliance with E-Reader / Peanut Press and having it integrate with iTMS. Then come out with an e book reader that uses digital ink. This is the tech that can paint a screen then cut power to the screen yet still have the image remain. In cases such as this we are talking WEEKS of battery life. Use digital ink + Apple's standard design flare + iTMS and I can guarantee people will eat it up.

Does anyone know how big this would be? It would be huge. No beyond huge. Literature is as universally accepted as music. It's used everywhere from text books in schools, to training manuals, to maintenance manuals, to entertainment in the home, to entertainment while you are sitting waiting for the dentist. Imagine subscribing to a magazine and having it downloaded off of iTMS like a podcast.

In short I would sell my first, second, third born sons, and cut off a pinky toe for Apple to release an e-book reader. This is Sony's attempt:

http://dynamism.com/images/extra/DSCN0862.jpg

No one in the market has done the design right yet. There is this huge market waiting for someone to step up to the plate and get it done right, easy, and elegant. Sound familiar?


But above all please PLEASE PLEASE donít integrate it into the iPod. It would be doing major disservice to the emerging industry.

dontmatter
Jul 24, 2006, 12:26 AM
a move to text based mediums would be great. It's easy to see that increases in technology should lead to increasingly technically difficult entertainment (hence ipod -> photo -> video), but it's not about the technology. It's about the entertainment of it and it's suitablility to the medium (ipod).

And in the hightech, fast paced world we live in, books, magazines, and newspapers are a welcome change and a fantastic form of entertainment, as they have been for centuries. Combining written text with the technology in the form of screens you want to read on all day long would be an excellent advance. It would be very cool if the ipod got wifi capabilities and you could download print media from ITMS and work RSS into the ipod too.

Imagine- wherever you go, the ipod finds internet access and updates itself automatically, and allows you to purchase books whenever you like. Fit the whole library in your pocket if you like.

The clincher is going to be the screen, though. Particularly because nothing is nicer than reading outside on a sunny day, but LCDs tend to suck at that. Also important would be wireless capabilities- could it use phone networks for internet access? Speeds wouldn't be a problem for text.

mmm, now if only all the rumors come together in one device without it becoming muddled or oversized, this could be spectacular.

dontmatter
Jul 24, 2006, 12:33 AM
No. Please god no. I don't know how many of you have done e-books but e-books on anything smaller then a 4" screen sucks. HARD.

What Apple needs to do is come out with a dedicated device. Integration seems the only way they can push into another market at this point. (Shades of MS Windows with [insert anything here.] integration.)

What Apple needs to do is form an alliance with E-Reader / Peanut Press and having it integrate with iTMS. Then come out with an e book reader that uses digital ink. This is the tech that can paint a screen then cut power to the screen yet still have the image remain. In cases such as this we are talking WEEKS of battery life. Use digital ink + Apple's standard design flare + iTMS and I can guarantee people will eat it up.

Does anyone know how big this would be? It would be huge. No beyond huge. Literature is as universally accepted as music. It's used everywhere from text books in schools, to training manuals, to maintenance manuals, to entertainment in the home, to entertainment while you are sitting waiting for the dentist. Imagine subscribing to a magazine and having it downloaded off of iTMS like a podcast.

In short I would sell my first, second, third born sons, and cut off a pinky toe for Apple to release an e-book reader. This is Sony's attempt:

http://dynamism.com/images/extra/DSCN0862.jpg

No one in the market has done the design right yet. There is this huge market waiting for someone to step up to the plate and get it done right, easy, and elegant. Sound familiar?


But above all please PLEASE PLEASE donít integrate it into the iPod. It would be doing major disservice to the emerging industry.

On second thought, silicon addict, you just might be right. big enough to read on just might be too big for the ipod. hrm.

dontmatter
Jul 24, 2006, 12:39 AM
At this point, I hope they split the iPod line into iPods (music / video) and iBooks (music, ebooks).


I agree that a split might be in order, but I'd have to disagree on that split. If a split makes sense (and i'd have to see potential products to commit one way or the other), it should be between iPods (music) and multi-media pods (ebooks, video, and no reason to get rid of music, so leave it in). video and reading both require looking at the screen and less frequent input, and therfore would work well with a big screened, controls on back or sides style device. But if my ipod could fit in the credit card slot of my wallet and somehow still be able to be controlled, I'd buy it and put it there.

mccoma
Jul 24, 2006, 12:51 AM
video and reading both require looking at the screen and less frequent input, and therfore would work well with a big screened, controls on back or sides style device.
The big problem is that the best display technology for reading (eInk) does not work for video, currently (too slow refresh rate). I would love one device for video and books, but it comes back to the ease of reading / power issue.

darrens
Jul 24, 2006, 01:06 AM
I'm not sure about novels but I would love to be able to read articles from Time, Wired, New Yorker et cetera on my iPod. In the past I've copied them from the web and transferred them into a 'note' file for viewing on my iPod. However I'd love to be able to download them from iTunes like a podcast. 99 cents wouldn't be un-reasonable if it's a well written article and it's advertisement free.


I think this would be great - I already read news articles on my 3G phone, and the iPod screen is bigger than that. Novels? No thanks.

Syncing today's news to my iPod in the morning to read on the way to work sounds great. No need for pesky slow download from a 3G network, or fiddly applescripts to download a website to notes on the iPod (sure someone would suggest it - sounds pretty awful to me!).

the.snitch
Jul 24, 2006, 01:08 AM
No. Please god no. I don't know how many of you have done e-books but e-books on anything smaller then a 4" screen sucks. HARD.

What Apple needs to do is come out with a dedicated device. Integration seems the only way they can push into another market at this point. (Shades of MS Windows with [insert anything here.] integration.)

What Apple needs to do is form an alliance with E-Reader / Peanut Press and having it integrate with iTMS. Then come out with an e book reader that uses digital ink. This is the tech that can paint a screen then cut power to the screen yet still have the image remain. In cases such as this we are talking WEEKS of battery life. Use digital ink + Apple's standard design flare + iTMS and I can guarantee people will eat it up.

Does anyone know how big this would be? It would be huge. No beyond huge. Literature is as universally accepted as music. It's used everywhere from text books in schools, to training manuals, to maintenance manuals, to entertainment in the home, to entertainment while you are sitting waiting for the dentist. Imagine subscribing to a magazine and having it downloaded off of iTMS like a podcast.

In short I would sell my first, second, third born sons, and cut off a pinky toe for Apple to release an e-book reader. This is Sony's attempt:

http://dynamism.com/images/extra/DSCN0862.jpg

No one in the market has done the design right yet. There is this huge market waiting for someone to step up to the plate and get it done right, easy, and elegant. Sound familiar?


But above all please PLEASE PLEASE don’t integrate it into the iPod. It would be doing major disservice to the emerging industry.

First Off, that's sony's Attempt?? Talk about a stupid design for an ebook reader. Whats all that keyboard/bezel/page margin doing apart from wasting space? Compare the enormous size of the device vs the actual size used to display the book:
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/5671/dscn0862vm8.jpg

Remember folks, its supposed to be an ebook reader. We dont need any of that other crap thats on the Sony device, just a huge screen and small bezel to be able to see the document effectively.
Now i dont know too much about industrial design, but apparantly neither does Sony. Apple could do so much better than this.

eji
Jul 24, 2006, 02:02 AM
I do some third-party writing for Sony. I'm so sick of writing about how beautiful and elegantly designed their products are. They aren't. They always look like what a 5-year-old would draw if you told him to imagine product X. Oh, and we'll put a cool blue light here! ...and a neat racing stripe here! ... and a really cool airfoil (who care's if it's a notebook computer?) here!

Tacky, gaudy. Ugh. Their desktop VAIO makes me want to puke.

In any case, an Apple eBook reader would probably be done right, but as it's been said in this thread, there has to be a BIG, non-glare screen in order for it to be of any use.

Cobrien
Jul 24, 2006, 06:46 AM
I think this is a cool idea but I dont think that the screen is big enough to read a book, youll only be able to get a few lines on the screnn, sony's idea looks cool but its too big.

If it was to come out I think that you would have to have free downloads or downloads at a very little cost eg $0.10 for a downloadable newspaper, that is the only way I can see it working.

PS. I think Apple will have to do more with this iPod with all the features coming with Microsoft's Zune, I cant wait to see.

Bonte
Jul 24, 2006, 07:20 AM
It would be very interesting to read Lord of the Rings and have the soundtrack playing - synchronised to where you're up to in the book. Or the book with excerpts from the movie.

Or pictures synchronized with an audiobook, or an ebook together with the preferred music from the author. This ads a whole new dimension to everything, Music, text, pictures and movies can all be combined into 1 work of art.

mikes63737
Jul 24, 2006, 07:38 AM
Throw in a spanish-english dictionary with either voice recognition or the ability to spell out the word to find the meaning and I am there.

For students taking Spanish in the US this would be really good. It would really help with some people's grades. Maybe people would learn that "No havo my homeworko" doesn't mean anything.

I also like that newspaper idea - it would be really nice if it came from an RSS feed so you can pick any source, not only Apple's sources.

paz117
Jul 24, 2006, 08:52 AM
If apple does this right, it would be awesome. A screen similar to the sony ereader for reading and widescreen for movies.

eji
Jul 24, 2006, 09:16 AM
I like the dictionary idea. But aren't we getting into the realm of the tablet/PDA now?

DrFrankTM
Jul 24, 2006, 09:45 AM
[...]
Does anyone know how big this would be? It would be huge. No beyond huge. Literature is as universally accepted as music. It's used everywhere from text books in schools, to training manuals, to maintenance manuals, to entertainment in the home, to entertainment while you are sitting waiting for the dentist. Imagine subscribing to a magazine and having it downloaded off of iTMS like a podcast.

In short I would sell my first, second, third born sons, and cut off a pinky toe for Apple to release an e-book reader. This is Sony's attempt:

http://dynamism.com/images/extra/DSCN0862.jpg

No one in the market has done the design right yet. There is this huge market waiting for someone to step up to the plate and get it done right, easy, and elegant. Sound familiar?


But above all please PLEASE PLEASE donít integrate it into the iPod. It would be doing major disservice to the emerging industry.

I cannot agree more. Apple would need to add another product to their line, not replace the actual iPod with something bulkier. Some people enjoy the iPod as a music player/portable HD. Why lose their business by breaking their favorite toy (by making it bigger to accomodate functions they might not care about)?

A few random thoughts on form and function...

I don't have an iPod yet because I don't think I'd enjoy reading a lot of text on any of the actual models. Like any other university student, I have tons of academic books and articles on top of my novels, short stories and such. Since I move and travel a lot, I often have to leave many - or most - of my books behind. With e-books, I could simply bring along a small, light-weight reader and I'd have my whole library with me, easily accessible, 24/7, no matter where I am. That would be beyond cool!!! A gadget integrating music and video too would be awesome, but adding video means an LCD, which means much shorter battery life, so there is a trade-off there: the do-it-all gadget that I am longing for just doesn't seem to be here yet.

Of course, you can read e-books on a laptop, but as has already been mentioned in this thread, reading from your laptop on the bus isn't enjoyable. It can be done, but few bother. I've had a laptop for over four years and I can't say I carried it around all that much. I need something smaller... but that can grow bigger when need be!!! I'll try to explain myself... When listening to music, you don't need a big screen and you don't want to lump around a big device for no reason. When watching video, a bigger screen is a good thing. However, an LCD isn't good for battery life and an e-ink screen isn't good for video, so how about having one of each on the same device? Or have two devices that integrate together flawlessly while addressing different needs?

For example, think iPod video with an LCD taking the whole "face" of the iPod. The device has a hard drive so you can carry a lot of stuff with you at all times. Then fold it open and you'll find an e-ink screen. The e-ink screen could be roughly twice as big as the LCD if it takes all of the surface inside, so you wouldn't be reading on a tiny screen. Maybe the e-ink screen could have its own flash memory, so the device could load the documents that you want to read on there. You'd need to access the hard drive only when you want to read/listen to/watch something that isn't on the flash drive, so I assume it would help the battery life a lot. (Actually, I'm starting to think that the flash memory/hard drive combo could be cool whatever screen the iPod uses, but I'm getting off-topic.) Or maybe the screen could be something you unroll from a tube. Anyways, I think that you could have your library on one device (that has a hard drive), yet read your stuff on another one (which has a much better battery life), or on another part of the same device. It poses challenges, obviously, as you don't want to waste time transfering stuff all the time, but I think it might be the closest we can get to having our cake and eating it too.

ChrisA
Jul 24, 2006, 11:25 AM
[It should be prety clear to most people that an iPod with a screen large enough to read would be WAY to large to cary around on a belt clip and use as a music player.

It would be hard to make a good book reader. Even the screen on the Mac Book is not nearly as good as a printed page and I can't image a MB like screen on an iPod

What I'm waiting for are the "iGlasses". It is a display that look like a pair of eye glasses. Some kind of projector is built into the frame.

steveh
Jul 24, 2006, 12:47 PM
i think i would rather read a paperback

wouldnt the screen strain the eyes?

I've been reading books on a Palm Tungsten T5 for a couple of years now.

It's a lot easier to carry around 75+ books in it than on paper.

And at night, my wife isn't kept away with a light on in the room, as long as I don't keep the T5 in front of her face.

With a bigger screen, a "bookPod" should be just as good.

Multimedia
Jul 24, 2006, 12:57 PM
If apple does this right, it would be awesome. A screen similar to the sony ereader for reading and widescreen for movies.Yeah this would be a killer application and open up a whole new world of remote reading. Imagine having a whole ton of books including illustrations and graphics in that little iPod Video. Wow. :eek: :cool:

heffledave
Jul 24, 2006, 12:59 PM
Dude...

BOOKS ON TAPE!

...unless you're one of "those" people who likes to "read." Though having a newspaper front on my iPod would be convenient.

SiliconAddict
Jul 24, 2006, 01:16 PM
Ummm you guys do realize my post with the Sony picture was to emphasize that no one has done it right...yet. Right? Sony's e-book reader sucks. They all do.
Hence the desire for Apple to pull an iPod on the market.

morespce54
Jul 24, 2006, 01:30 PM
i hope it comes with a battery that lasts two or three days. the last thing i'd do is read a book connected to an adapter.

LOL !!! :D

Bonte
Jul 24, 2006, 02:33 PM
I like the dictionary idea. But aren't we getting into the realm of the tablet/PDA now?

The big difference is extreme simplicity and loads of content on a central and popular place, iTunes. Its amazing to see the iPod gradually grow into a multifunctional device and the road it took to get there.

j.mcc
Jul 24, 2006, 02:43 PM
If it hooked up to a wiki with the old wireless and allowed approved paid contributors/users to edit and add entries from the magippear keyless keyboard, it would truly become the essential traveller's instructional companion. Pop it in a sock, because you should always know where your sock is. Yes, it's a hitch-hiker's guide, no less...

welborn
Jul 24, 2006, 02:50 PM
It would be cool if you could buy comics this way as well. Maybe when you buy a physical comic, it could give you a code to enter at the iTMS (iTunes Media Store) to download a CBR version of it.

Right now, you can download all sorts of comics on BitTorrent as CBR or PDF format, and Marvel (www.marvel.com) has a pretty cool online (Flash-based, I think) comic reader from their website.

I'd love to be able to pony up some amount of money and have, say, the entire run of X-Men at my disposal for reading. And controlling the DRM on a comic would be easier than that of music, or even text.

Thanatoast
Jul 24, 2006, 03:15 PM
I like the dual screen idea, one for video, one for e-ink.

Imagine today's 60-gig 5G iPod. For our new model, there's a hinge on the top and a crease down the middle between the plastic and the chrome. The device is magnetically sealed, just like the macbooks.

Simply flip the full-screen oled over to the back, so it's now flush with (and protected by) the back of the iPod. Now, instead of seeing your full size video you're seeing a full size e-ink screen.

Sweetness.

DavidLeblond
Jul 24, 2006, 03:20 PM
*WARNING* The following post was posted without me having read the previous 7 pages of posts.

I use to have an eReader. It was excellent for reading books in bed. Unfortunately, you couldn't read books in the bath, at the beach, in sunlight, or anywhere where you could drop it. Actually you could pretty much only read books in bed.

eBooks aren't the future, they are the past. There is a reason the craze didn't take off last time. You just can't beat a book.

network23
Jul 24, 2006, 03:30 PM
The big problem is that the best display technology for reading (eInk) does not work for video, currently (too slow refresh rate). I would love one device for video and books, but it comes back to the ease of reading / power issue.

True. There is also the fact that the e-paper technology is B&W only. Certainly Apple does not and will not want to step backward from the color screeens we enjoy now. But... why not two screens?

Correct me if I am misremembering technologies, but aren't color LCD screens, when "off" essentially transparent as the crystals are aligned a certain way (or maybe it's "on")? Either way, if there is a state where the color LCD can be transparent, why not put the e-paper screen behind the color LCD. The e-paper will have the benefit of higher resolution, contrast and lower battery consuption, the color LCD benefits of color.

Hmmm. Did not consider lighting just now. Can e-paper be lit from behind? If so, then the technology is still viable as the backlighting can illuminate the LCD.

Okay, posted this before reading the last page of posts and see Dr. Frank posted a similar idea.

morespce54
Jul 24, 2006, 03:39 PM
The current iPod is 4.1 x 2.4 inches. A mass market paperback -- which ain't big -- is roughy 7.1 x 4.3 inches, which is almost twice as large as an iPod. Most eBook devices are the size of a mass market paperback or larger. Portable DVD/DVR players are also typically larger than the iPod enclosure. I am all for a wide format iPod where the screen is the thing, but I'm not sure I want to read a book (or watch movies) on it if it's going to be the same size as the current iPod enclosure.


...but then, I wouldn't want to listen to my music on a paperback size device... :rolleyes:

Damek
Jul 24, 2006, 03:53 PM
people are always worried about "save the trees..." and "there's too much over-population..." Have u ever flown over this country? there's thousands of acres of nothingness. i'm confused.

And if we filled it all with people, they would all die. We need that space. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_footprint)

Specifically, however, I'm not sure how much of anything iPod ebooks would save. Sure, if everyone switched to electronic books, all the printing & transportation infrastructure surrounding printed books would stop consuming resources. And just one iPod could function in place of hundreds of books. Want to read a new book? Copy it to your existing iPod.

However, the duplication/transfer of all those ebooks would be carried out by computers, and many more iPods would have to be made to display them to people. The production of so many devices and the running of so many ebook servers would use resources, and electronics are chemically dirty to produce.

Someone would have to do a rigorous resource-use trade-off analysis. I don't think the sustainability benefit of one or the other is at all obvious.

hoppo99
Jul 24, 2006, 06:40 PM
I would say this is probably not for books. We already have audiobooks after all and reading a book from a screen is not ideal. Where this really would be useful is for articles and blogs, in fact this could be linked up with Safari so that you could download the RSS feed of your favourite sites to read on the go. This would be a great feature and could be a free part of the iTMS (in need of a new name perhaps) like podcasts. Movies will be problematic because of battery life, they're going to deplete any battery very quickly compared to music and even more if with text. Would be a great feature and to keep at least one step ahead of the competition.

Drewys
Jul 24, 2006, 08:29 PM
One of the most practical/feasible forms may be to just have 2 screens...an iPod as one screen AND a Tablet screen (i.e. eInk, LCD, etc.). In this way, regular iPod users can CHOOSE to just carry around JUST their iPod for music/video, or take along an ADDITIONAL tablet screen if they desire to watch a movie on the larger screen or read documents (e-books) or email or other apps (albeit with a shorter battery life).

Need to still have a "cool" form factor, such that the iPod nests into the tablet screen seamlessly and not some stupid corded device.

This idea would give the consumer both expandability and more incentive to buy an iPod. What most consumers DON'T want is to buy more and more devices that don't "leverage" each other. MOST consumers don't have an unlimited amount of disposable income to buy a shuffle, a nano, an iPodV, a Mac Tablet, an iPhone, etc.

Your thoughts?

mccoma
Jul 24, 2006, 08:36 PM
True. There is also the fact that the e-paper technology is B&W only.

I am not sure about the physics of a double screen, but eInk has a color screen (not quite as nice as the B&W model :( ).

now, why I want one......

My main reason for wanting one is the increasing number of PDF technical books from places like Apple (ADC library), Pragmatic Programmers, APress, and SpiderWorks. I want to have one device I can take with me (perhaps with some of my own notes and graphics outputed from various programs in PDF on the Mac) that can view all these works. The eInk screens are really, really nice and don't fatigue your eyes like an LCD. Audiobooks tend not to work for programming books and references.

ClimbingTheLog
Jul 24, 2006, 10:21 PM
eInk sounds interesting for B&W eBook readers and the like, less so if you want a Video iPod as well, at least at this stage.

The One Laptop Per Child project is using a display that's full color but has a 1-bit mode that uses no or very little power when it's in its 'off mode'. I'm not sure what technology they're using but we do know that Steve Jobs and Nicholas Negroponte have talked last year when Jobs offered OSX for the olpc.

But wind energy is, so one ipod versus piles of books, we could finally stop all this senseless logging.

Good, we can burn those logs for electricity. Carbon net-neutral for a short period of time, unlike coal or oil.

Engadget believes that Apple would also launch electronic book sales via iTunes as well to provide content for this new iPod functionality.

Why would Apple go about doing all this work when Steve Jobs's friend Jeff Bezos has been spending the past several years scanning all of his inventory for the 'Look Inside' feature? And they cover just about every book on Earth. And they've been in the default Safari bookmarks for years. Etc.

SiliconAddict
Jul 24, 2006, 11:04 PM
Why would Apple go about doing all this work when Steve Jobs's friend Jeff Bezos has been spending the past several years scanning all of his inventory for the 'Look Inside' feature? And they cover just about every book on Earth. And they've been in the default Safari bookmarks for years. Etc.

Just because you have the content scanned doesn't mean its ready for e-book format. As I said before Apple would be better off working with e-reader who has something along the lines of 16,000+ books ready to go.

bloodycape
Jul 24, 2006, 11:45 PM
Interesting ebook idea from sony getting ebooks from connect service in theory? Could itunes be next?
http://reviews.cnet.com/4660-10619_7-6556035.html?tag=vid&autoplay=true#mgallery

DrFrankTM
Jul 25, 2006, 07:42 AM
One of the most practical/feasible forms may be to just have 2 screens...an iPod as one screen AND a Tablet screen (i.e. eInk, LCD, etc.). In this way, regular iPod users can CHOOSE to just carry around JUST their iPod for music/video, or take along an ADDITIONAL tablet screen if they desire to watch a movie on the larger screen or read documents (e-books) or email or other apps (albeit with a shorter battery life).

Need to still have a "cool" form factor, such that the iPod nests into the tablet screen seamlessly and not some stupid corded device.

This idea would give the consumer both expandability and more incentive to buy an iPod. What most consumers DON'T want is to buy more and more devices that don't "leverage" each other. MOST consumers don't have an unlimited amount of disposable income to buy a shuffle, a nano, an iPodV, a Mac Tablet, an iPhone, etc.

Your thoughts?

Yeah, I think the big-screen (e-ink?) add-on the way you describe it makes the most sense. I was clueless as to how the second screen could fit on the iPod, but I think your idea's pretty feasible with today's tech and would be pretty usable too. If you want to read for just a few minutes, then you don't need the add-on. But if you sit down to read for a few hours, then you plug the bigger screen and you're ready to go. Chances are you won't try to read War and Peace on your way to the supermarket, so you don't need to lug the second screen around all the time. If Apple came out with something like that, I'd buy one right away, although I must say I'd like a color screen, even if it only displays a few really basic colors.

Of course, if the reader does not require the iPod but merely uses it as a storage device to pull stuff from, I think it would indeed boost iPod sales because the iPod would effectively become an add-on for the reader, so it would become attractive to some people who just don't care about the iPod's music capabilities. If the reader is built with the iPod in mind, it could easily have some kind of built-in iPod "dock", as you suggested. Yeah... It seems so perfect that I wonder why Apple hasn't released it yet!!! :P

corky
Jul 25, 2006, 03:17 PM
i thinking of getting an ipod but i need to know your opinion of it should i stick with an mp3 player? what can an ipod do that an mp3 player can't?

balamw
Jul 25, 2006, 03:23 PM
i thinking of getting an ipod but i need to know your opinion of it should i stick with an mp3 player? what can an ipod do that an mp3 player can't?
You might want to take this to a new thread.

That said, an iPod is an "MP3 player", but one that has a great user interface and complete integration with iTunes and the iTunes Music Store where you can buy music, audiobooks and even videos.

B

kingtj
Jul 25, 2006, 04:28 PM
Despite all the talk about paper having "superior resolution" to displays, the human eye can't really tell the difference in the size of the dots making up the print past a certain point.

The main reason displays cause eyestrain when trying to read something like a book is the fact that they're backlit. Basically, it's akin to staring into a small flashlight. The much talked-about "e-ink" or "e-paper" is interesting because it would simply work with reflected light from existing sources - just like reading real paper.

If the other "video ipod" rumors are true, Apple is looking at using the new "OLED" display technology for the next iPod. That's not going to be quite as "paper-like" as the "e-ink/e-paper" technologies, but should provide better contrast (and resolution) than LCD technology. So that means it will be better than most devices at reducing eyestrain while reading, but not as easy on the eyes as a real paper book either.


Yes. Yes it would.

Until display resolution matches paper resolution, the e-book will remain relatively unpopular.

This does seem to make a serious run at the "iPod for Education" crowd, though -- fighting to keep brand loyalty with the kids, I spose ...

Mammoth
Aug 4, 2006, 02:48 AM
Apple can conquer any resolution problems. The only thing they can't fix is how much people bitch.
Print that on a t-shirt and watch the PC fanboys cry. :D

Thanatoast
Oct 18, 2006, 02:45 PM
Books are expensive these days. How much would e-books go for?

balamw
Oct 18, 2006, 02:46 PM
Books are expensive these days. How much would e-books go for?
If audiobooks are any indication, don't expect to save any money by saving trees. :p

B

minnesotamacman
Oct 18, 2006, 05:51 PM
i think i would rather read a paperback

wouldnt the screen strain the eyes?

I have seen ebooks in the past, of course a few years ago, but the eye strain was there. Sony has a new one, but they don't have a backlight, so they say it is just like reading a book. The cost of the books is what bothers me. For that amount, I like a hard copy on my office bookshelf.