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MacRumors
Jul 26, 2006, 05:55 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Sonic Solutions (http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20060725005117&newsLang=en) announced that the newest version of Toast 7 will incorporate Blu-Ray support for the Mac.

This represents the first Blu-Ray support for Macs. With the new format, users will be able to store as much as 50GB of data per disc. The first supported Blu-Ray drives will be shipping later this quarter.

Toast's Blu-ray Disc features include Toast Dynamic Writing, which for the first time enables users to record files simply by dragging and dropping files onto a disc in the same convenient way they would move or copy files to a removable storage device. The ability to store as much as 50 GB of data makes Toast an ideal solution for archiving extensive digital music collections or protecting critical files and precious memories too large to fit on a standard DVD. In addition to its Blu-ray capabilities, Toast 7 is now also a universal application that runs natively on both Intel-based and PowerPC-based systems.

Little information about Apple's adoption of Blu-ray has been released. Analysts speculate (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/07/20060713232130.shtml) that the Mac Pro (Intel PowerMac) will be the first to incorporate the new drives, but not for a number of months.

Available rumors (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/07/20060714150350.shtml) about the upcoming Mac Pro expect a traditional DVD-R SuperDrive, but the new machines are said to offer an empty optical drive slot for future expansion.

The Mac Pro is expected to be announced on August 7th, 2006 at WWDC 2006.

WildPalms
Jul 26, 2006, 05:58 PM
Actually, its Blu-Ray AS WELL AS, not in place of HD-DVD. Both formats will be supported.

barneygumble
Jul 26, 2006, 06:01 PM
The cost of this equipment will have to come down substantially before i even think about adopting it, i am not going to pay $50 for a disc and $1500 for burner, a quarter of that and i may be able to stomach it. I have encoded all my DVDs and put them on my mediagate player, when these become cheaper i can actually back them up:o

p.s I am in australia hence the price points

enda1
Jul 26, 2006, 06:06 PM
Deadly!!

Wonder what price they will be by christmas (i bloody hate the term 'the holiday season'!!) anyone any thoughts?

New toast sounds tasty also. Drag and drop will be nice. I hate the procedure involved in burning discs.

Though this will I'm sure require some little toast prog to run in the backround, which is one of my big windows hates!!
Embed that feature in leopard I say.

quigleybc
Jul 26, 2006, 06:13 PM
Nice


Soon this will be standard, until then, I will be lurking and drooling

Multimedia
Jul 26, 2006, 06:18 PM
Deadly!!

Wonder what price they will be by christmas (i bloody hate the term 'the holiday season'!!) anyone any thoughts?

New toast sounds tasty also. Drag and drop will be nice. I hate the procedure involved in burning discs.

Though this will I'm sure require some little toast prog to run in the backround, which is one of my big windows hates!!
Embed that feature in leopard I say.I run multiple copies of Toast 7 simultaneously daily on the Quad. It's drag and drop feature is great and the custom encode parameters make fitting anything on one single layer disc a snap. When encoding HD Video from EyeTV2 digital broadcast recordings it can use up to about 2.5 cores at once.

However after running 7.1 a few days, I had to revert to 7.0.2 as 7.1 crashes way too often. :(

Marx55
Jul 26, 2006, 06:39 PM
Wow!

Apple, please, put Blu-ray drives in Macs! At least as an option.

We need them for handy backups of audio, images and video taking lots of GB.

PimpGGG
Jul 26, 2006, 06:49 PM
ok i have a powerbook g4...how will i be able to get this in here..will i have to buy an external one that i plug in this or take my drive out and put that in?

yac_moda
Jul 26, 2006, 06:52 PM
Is Blue-ray going to support the tech that etches the disk lable/graphics with the disk burner laser :confused:

ChrisA
Jul 26, 2006, 06:53 PM
Anyone Know if Blue-Ray discs are archival? The normal DVD have a high failure rate after a few year in storage. Even CD-R media will not last decades.

rxse7en
Jul 26, 2006, 06:56 PM
I hope this means we will see HDMI out on the next MacBook Pros. I really want to be able to use my soon-to-be-had MacBook Pro Core2Duo as a media center too. With that said, here's to hoping the new MBPs have HDMI and the ability to output Dolby PLII and at least 1080i. My current 1.25ghz G4 book chokes on 720p so I never hook it up to my plasma HDTV.

B

Added:
I'm still not convinced that Blu Ray is going to beat out HD-DVD.

retroneo
Jul 26, 2006, 07:05 PM
Apple supports both Blu-ray and HD-DVD.

In fact HD-DVD support has been in DVD Player for a while now, and DVD Studio Pro supports HD-DVD projects, but not Blu-ray.

Multimedia
Jul 26, 2006, 07:06 PM
I hope this means we will see HDMI out on the next MacBook Pros. I really want to be able to use my soon-to-be-had MacBook Pro Core2Duo as a media center too. With that said, here's to hoping the new MBPs have HDMI and the ability to output Dolby PLII and at least 1080i. My current 1.25ghz G4 book chokes on 720p so I never hook it up to my plasma HDTV.
Added:
I'm still not convinced that Blu Ray is going to beat out HD-DVD.Man you need EyeTV2 with an EyeTV 500 Digital Broadcast reccorder. You don't need no stinkin HDMI and it plays beautiful 1080p on any 24" Apple or Dell Display from your 1.25GHz G4 without choking at all.

bigjohn
Jul 26, 2006, 07:14 PM
great, now Toast can concentrate on compatibility issues on the DVD-R side... i've had nothing but problems with my Plextor 716A (DL) and I can't burn higher than 2x without underrun errors on either my new MBP or the Plextor. Different media hasn't helped.

mmmcheese
Jul 26, 2006, 07:22 PM
Since more people have Intel based Macs, than Macs with Blu-ray burners built in, it would be nice if maybe they prioritized on a Universal version instead...

Mac Rules
Jul 26, 2006, 07:23 PM
Actually, its Blu-Ray AS WELL AS, not in place of HD-DVD. Both formats will be supported.


Maybe the software, but the drive itself may be only compatible with Blu-Ray rather than HD-DVD. Different wavelenghts and all. Could be wrong though, I just think that Apple might let you REAd HD-DVD, just not write....

Cheers

Nermal
Jul 26, 2006, 07:27 PM
Since more people have Intel based Macs, than Macs with Blu-ray burners built in, it would be nice if maybe they prioritized on a Universal version instead...

There is already a universal version.

Maybe the software, but the drive itself may be only compatible with Blu-Ray rather than HD-DVD.

The original poster is talking about support in general. The original summary incorrectly states that Apple is preferring Blu-Ray over HD-DVD, when in reality they're in both camps.

poppe
Jul 26, 2006, 07:28 PM
Man you need EyeTV2 with an EyeTV 500 Digital Broadcast reccorder. You don't need no stinkin HDMI and it plays beautiful 1080p on any 24" Apple or Dell Display from your 1.25GHz G4 without choking at all.

Ooo that sounds nice... have to look in to that...

yac_moda
Jul 26, 2006, 07:29 PM
TALK ABOUT PRE-ANNOUNCING :confused: :eek: :confused:


Remember when SJ said we support BR ?!?!?!!?

From someone who SWORE NO pre-announcements :eek: :eek:

And still no BlueRay from Apple :eek: :eek: :eek:

SPG
Jul 26, 2006, 07:40 PM
Word is that this is a really really basic functionality intended for data and not meant to be any kind of HD video type of software.
This is however the first step to getting HD discs authored on the Mac.
Right now the only real HD authoring options each cost over $50,000 so if Apple is planning on getting an HD version of DVD Studio pro this would be a start in the right direction.

MikeT
Jul 26, 2006, 07:49 PM
At this point, I couldn't really care less about Blu Ray or HD-DVD. I'd be more excited if Apple included Lightscribe or equivalent capability in their drives. Unlabeled discs are piled high on my desk.

GFLPraxis
Jul 26, 2006, 07:52 PM
TALK ABOUT PRE-ANNOUNCING :confused: :eek: :confused:


Remember when SJ said we support BR ?!?!?!!?

From someone who SWORE NO pre-announcements :eek: :eek:

And still no BlueRay from Apple :eek: :eek: :eek:

Uh, genius, Apple doesn't make Blu-ray. Apple has to wait for Sony & Co to release Blu-ray drives, which we all knew would be in late 2006.

irmongoose
Jul 26, 2006, 07:53 PM
I hope this means we will see HDMI out on the next MacBook Pros.

HDMI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI) is a video/audio output standard that combines DVI video and optical out audio.
Sound familiar?
Yes, the MacBook Pro has both DVI out and optical audio out ports. Use a DVI to HDMI cable and a optical audio cable, and there is no need to have a dedicated HDMI output. In fact, as the MacBook Pro has a dual-link DVI port, it has the ability to power more than 1080p. Combine this with the included Apple Remote for Front Row, and you have yourself a (somewhat expensive) media center (with an unnecessary screen?;) ).




irmongoose

Greenjeens
Jul 26, 2006, 08:43 PM
At this point, I couldn't really care less about Blu Ray or HD-DVD. I'd be more excited if Apple included Lightscribe or equivalent capability in their drives. Unlabeled discs are piled high on my desk.



Get a $100 inkjet cd/dvd printer. I use the Epson R320 (has a few more bells and whistles). You can Google images and print just about any kind of image on your discs. They look GREAT!
Generic ink is about $15 for a complete set! Doesn't look the best for photos but works fine for labels.

http://www.supermediastore.com/epson-stylus-photo-r220-inkjet-cd-printer.html

http://www.supermediastore.com/what-is-thermal-inkjet-printing-how-to-print-dvd.html

-
Dave

Fabio_gsilva
Jul 26, 2006, 09:04 PM
Get a $100 inkjet cd/dvd printer. I use the Epson R320 (has a few more bells and whistles). You can Google images and print just about any kind of image on your discs. They look GREAT!
Generic ink is about $15 for a complete set! Doesn't look the best for photos but works fine for labels.

http://www.supermediastore.com/epson-stylus-photo-r220-inkjet-cd-printer.html

http://www.supermediastore.com/what-is-thermal-inkjet-printing-how-to-print-dvd.html

-
Dave

I have a R200 and made a bulk-in to save some money on ink... but i'm not so much satisfied... original ink looks better anyway.

Fabio_gsilva
Jul 26, 2006, 09:05 PM
Well, Blu-ray discs are taking data storage one step further...

Welcome to Apple.

stephenli
Jul 26, 2006, 09:06 PM
japan now selling external Bluray RW drive for.....USD1000....
so, if MacPro have BTO option for this...
we got to pay around USD5000 for the fastest Mac, right?
its terrible...

i hope apple will release a nice external drive...though, insofar the only external optical drive from apple can trace back to the age of CD-Rom...

MikeT
Jul 26, 2006, 09:09 PM
Get a $100 inkjet cd/dvd printer. I use the Epson R320 (has a few more bells and whistles). You can Google images and print just about any kind of image on your discs. They look GREAT!
Generic ink is about $15 for a complete set! Doesn't look the best for photos but works fine for labels.
Thanks for the tips. Still, Lightscribe or Labelflash or equivalent would be a nice feature, especially in a notebook computer. If you're out and about with your notebook and you want to burn a disc, it'd be convenient to be able to just burn a few words on to the disc rather than bothering with printers, inks, labels, markers, etc.

dosers
Jul 26, 2006, 09:21 PM
Actually,
there is a shipping Blu-Ray Drive from Sony right now (in reality, it's in the Vaio, the retail version, while out in SKU, ships the 1st week of August), which has a standard 5.25 form-factor and is below $1000.

Apple COULD make use of that if Sony ships in quantity, and to other manufacturers early on...



Uh, genius, Apple doesn't make Blu-ray. Apple has to wait for Sony & Co to release Blu-ray drives, which we all knew would be in late 2006.

hokullani
Jul 26, 2006, 09:27 PM
well if apple is going to rely on sony for bluray then they will have to wait cuz sony is gonna use them all up on the PS3

dosers
Jul 26, 2006, 09:27 PM
My understanding is, that is not 'quite' right:

Apple is firmly in the Blu-Ray camp (as Microsoft is firmly in HD-DVD).

While there is theoretical HD-DVD support in DVD Studio Pro (and DVD Player), this is ONLY for encoding and decoding mpeg-2 (or H.264). HD-DVD spec 'includes' those codes, but is designed for VC-1 (incidentally, a Microsoft-originated codec). Apple Software, at this time, cannot play VC-1 Video spec - regardless of the media.

It remains to be seen how Leopard changes that; since Apple IS in the Blu-Ray camp, but not HD DVD, I would argue they will probably not going to support VC-1 decoding, and certainly not encoding (why would they? They would have no hardware to burn it), while a Blu-Ray drive will certainly be supported by player and DVD Studio Pro; Blu-Ray does not use VC-1 (in fact, one could argue, currently they are behind the times as they still use mpeg-2, since the H. code, while written into Blu-Ray spec, is not efficient enough yet, and no Sony video release currently supports it, making for - at this time anyway - less efficient compression than HD-DVD).

cheers,
d

There is already a universal version.



The original poster is talking about support in general. The original summary incorrectly states that Apple is preferring Blu-Ray over HD-DVD, when in reality they're in both camps.

Multimedia
Jul 26, 2006, 09:34 PM
At this point, I couldn't really care less about Blu Ray or HD-DVD. I'd be more excited if Apple included Lightscribe or equivalent capability in their drives. Unlabeled discs are piled high on my desk.Get a Sharpie. :D

lhawkins
Jul 26, 2006, 09:40 PM
The problem with that is that without a real HDMI connector HD-DVD or Blue-Ray commercial disks will downsample the video due to the DRM restrictions. You have to have an actual HDMI connector on both ends and they have to support HDCP to get a fully digital, full resolution image on any monitor/HDTV.

--laurence

HDMI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI) is a video/audio output standard that combines DVI video and optical out audio.
Sound familiar?
Yes, the MacBook Pro has both DVI out and optical audio out ports. Use a DVI to HDMI cable and a optical audio cable, and there is no need to have a dedicated HDMI output. In fact, as the MacBook Pro has a dual-link DVI port, it has the ability to power more than 1080p. Combine this with the included Apple Remote for Front Row, and you have yourself a (somewhat expensive) media center (with an unnecessary screen?;) ).




irmongoose

Artful Dodger
Jul 26, 2006, 09:40 PM
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=215523

Try this link for more info...discs will be $20 and the link has prices from $499-$1000 as I posted before this was announced ;)

bigjohn
great, now Toast can concentrate on compatibility issues on the DVD-R side... i've had nothing but problems with my Plextor 716A (DL) and I can't burn higher than 2x without underrun errors on either my new MBP or the Plextor. Different media hasn't helped.

That's odd, my friend is using, well was, a 700Mhz G3 iBook with 640mb RAM and the same Plextor 716A FW drive which can burn at 16X :cool:
Same software, wonder what is going on with yours :o

Multimedia
Jul 26, 2006, 09:45 PM
japan now selling external Bluray RW drive for.....$1000....
so, if MacPro have BTO option for this...
we got to pay around $5000 for the fastest Mac, right?
its terrible...

i hope apple will release a nice external drive...though, insofar the only external optical drive from apple can trace back to the age of CD-Rom...Even better, the blank media are only $50 each. How economical. I can buy one 25GB Blue-ray blank for $50 or two-hundred seventy eight 4.3 GB SL DVD-R blanks = 1194 GB of space or 1.2 Terrabytes for the same $50. Blu-ray wins hands down. :rolleyes:

I love new technology. And spending tons more for it is the best.

Multimedia
Jul 26, 2006, 09:57 PM
The problem with that is that without a real HDMI connector HD-DVD or Blue-Ray commercial disks will downsample the video due to the DRM restrictions. You have to have an actual HDMI connector on both ends and they have to support HDCP to get a fully digital, full resolution image on any monitor/HDTV.

--laurenceI guess I'm not as much of a purist as some here. I make DVDs off EyeTV digital HD broadcast recordings with Toast 7 and they look and sound very close to the original HD broadcasts on my 24" Dell 1920 x 1200 display. I cannot see much nor hear any difference.

Call me old fashioned but I just don't see why I would want Blu-ray or HD-DVD until they are cost competitive with good old fashioned single layer 4.38 GB DVDs. :rolleyes:

Tommyg117
Jul 26, 2006, 09:58 PM
This is awesome news. I can't wait.

iMikeT
Jul 26, 2006, 10:11 PM
Why announce the support of one standard now when there is another competing standard?

KingYaba
Jul 26, 2006, 10:15 PM
Burn High Def movies to Blu-Ray disk. Stick in PS3, watch on DLP tv :cool: life will be sweet.

Analog Kid
Jul 26, 2006, 10:26 PM
Thanks for the tips. Still, Lightscribe or Labelflash or equivalent would be a nice feature, especially in a notebook computer. If you're out and about with your notebook and you want to burn a disc, it'd be convenient to be able to just burn a few words on to the disc rather than bothering with printers, inks, labels, markers, etc.
Seems like a lot of hassle to avoid using a Sharpie...

[Edit: guess I'm not the only one thinking this way....]

Analog Kid
Jul 26, 2006, 10:33 PM
Why announce the support of one standard now when there is another competing standard?
There's two camps (HD-DVD and BluRay) trying to rally support. This tends to make even small announcements into huge press events.

TerryJ
Jul 26, 2006, 10:44 PM
The problem with that is that without a real HDMI connector HD-DVD or Blue-Ray commercial disks will downsample the video due to the DRM restrictions. You have to have an actual HDMI connector on both ends and they have to support HDCP to get a fully digital, full resolution image on any monitor/HDTV.

--laurence
No movie studios have enabled this feature ("ICT" Image Constraint Token), nor have they stated that they intend to enable this feature in the future (although that is possible). All HD DVDs and Blu-Ray discs AND players currently available can send a full high definition image over analog component outputs as well as HDMI.

Do some research.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/03/27/universal-wont-downsample-hd-dvd-content/

-Terry

Analog Kid
Jul 26, 2006, 10:47 PM
Usually, I get pretty excited about new technologies and standards, but this just isn't doing it for me...

I've finally resigned myself to having a mirror set of hard drives for backup. Storing to removable media is too hard to organize, requires too many discs, and the optical discs don't have a life span long enough to make me comfortable. With the information density of BluRay I'm sure the recordables are going to have lousy longevity. I'll stick with live copies that I can keep testing the checksums on.

So, for me they're nothing more than a distribution method for high-def video and the fun has even been taken out of that by all the DRM shackles they've wrapped around it. I wonder how many people are really going to throw out their whole home entertainment system just to be able to play BR discs. If the recordable discs are $50, I'm sure discs with content will be at least that much-- and I can't back up this expensive, fragile data? I've got enough $12 DVDs I can't watch on my Mac because they've gotten scratched. Can't watch it on any computer I chose? Can't rip it to my iPod?

(come to think of it, $50 recordable media is probably all the DRM they need... Who's going to make an illegal copy when the blank media costs more than a DVD player?)

And doesn't the DRM phone home?!?

Nah. I'll wait. Hopefully by the time the media price has gotten low enough to make it worth it I'll have found myself with the equipment to actually view them and some Scandinavian kid will have cracked the encryption.

gugy
Jul 26, 2006, 10:55 PM
Man you need EyeTV2 with an EyeTV 500 Digital Broadcast reccorder. You don't need no stinkin HDMI and it plays beautiful 1080p on any 24" Apple or Dell Display from your 1.25GHz G4 without choking at all.

Just make sure your cable provider allows you to record from it. Make sure the signals are not encrypted.
I purchased EyeTV500 and after I figure out the only way to record HDTV was from over the air antenna. I returned it to Elgato after I found out I would have to spend good amount of money buying a really good outdoor antenna plus make holes in the wall and etc. to be able to connect it to my EyeTV and computer.

Analog Kid
Jul 26, 2006, 10:58 PM
No movie studios have enabled this feature ("ICT" Image Constraint Token), nor have they stated that they intend to enable this feature in the future (although that is possible). All HD DVDs and Blu-Ray discs AND players currently available can send a full high definition image over analog component outputs as well as HDMI.

Do some research.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/03/27/universal-wont-downsample-hd-dvd-content/

-Terry
Thanks. Did the research and am now convinced that they'll wait until after we've drank the Kool-Aid to enable the ICT.

Multimedia
Jul 26, 2006, 11:03 PM
Just make sure your cable provider allows you to record from it. Make sure the signals are not encrypted.
I purchased EyeTV500 and after I figure out the only way to record HDTV was from over the air antenna. I returned it to Elgato after I found out I would have to spend good amount of money buying a really good outdoor antenna plus make holes in the wall and etc. to be able to connect it to my EyeTV and computer.Nonsense. I record facing South from North tower off air signals with the Terk TV5 amplified low-profile antenna and it works like a dream. Don't need no stinkin' cable nor satellite. All the rabbit ears were useless. This portable indoor antenna, availble from Circuit City for $50, is in a class of its own. Just point it out the window and turn to tweak reception. :)

WildPalms
Jul 26, 2006, 11:04 PM
Maybe the software, but the drive itself may be only compatible with Blu-Ray rather than HD-DVD. Different wavelenghts and all. Could be wrong though, I just think that Apple might let you REAd HD-DVD, just not write....

Cheers

Correct. The operating system will support both formats, you then require a Blu-Ray drive for Blu-Ray support and/or HD-DVD drive for HD-DVD support. The ability to write as well as read will not be limited, it will depend on the hardware.

gugy
Jul 26, 2006, 11:08 PM
Nonsense. I record facing South from North tower off air signals with the Terk TV5 amplified low-profile antenna and it works like a dream. Don't need no stinkin' cable nor satellite. All the rabbit ears were useless. This antenna, availble from Circuit City, is in a class of its own.

Maybe where you live. I tried it in La Jolla, CA with Terk TV5 and I just was able to get couple channels and very choppy.
Sorry Multimedia. I even joined your yahoo group and I was very excite about the possibilities of the EyeTV500. I just turned out to be not the way you said.
It works maybe for you, but in some cases like mine require way more than what your are just saying.
I am just trying to make sure people are not going through the same hassle and disappointment I had.
so be aware!

WildPalms
Jul 26, 2006, 11:08 PM
At this point, I couldn't really care less about Blu Ray or HD-DVD. I'd be more excited if Apple included Lightscribe or equivalent capability in their drives. Unlabeled discs are piled high on my desk.


Just replace your burner with a LightScribe unit and use the HP burning s/w.
....unless you have a laptop and dont wish to lug around an external burner?

rxse7en
Jul 26, 2006, 11:17 PM
HDMI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI) is a video/audio output standard that combines DVI video and optical out audio.
Sound familiar?
Yes, the MacBook Pro has both DVI out and optical audio out ports. Use a DVI to HDMI cable and a optical audio cable, and there is no need to have a dedicated HDMI output. In fact, as the MacBook Pro has a dual-link DVI port, it has the ability to power more than 1080p. Combine this with the included Apple Remote for Front Row, and you have yourself a (somewhat expensive) media center (with an unnecessary screen?;) ).




irmongoose

That would work--when I get a MBP (D2C). My current 'book has S video and 1/8" audio out, which was fine three years ago. I currently run component from my HD sat receiver to the plasma, optical to my HT system and HDMI from the HT to the plasma. I like Multimedia's idea of using an EyeTV DVR and a Mac Mini I have sitting in the play room. I've got DVR on my standard sets upstairs and it's quite addicting.

Multimedia--thanks for reminding me about the ElGato systems. My wife and I were just talking about upgrading the HD receiver to a DVR but for the same price I can own the EyeTV DVR and use my Mac Mini with it.

B

Multimedia
Jul 26, 2006, 11:18 PM
Maybe where you live. I tried it in La Jolla, CA with Terk TV5 and I just was able to get couple channels and very choppy.Yeah I have to move my Terk TV5 antenna every time I change the channel. It's not easy. Very sensitive to antenna position A LOT.Sorry Multimedia. I even joined your yahoo group and I was very excite about the possibilities of the EyeTV500. I just turned out to be not the way you said.
It works maybe for you, but in some cases like mine require way more than what your are just saying.
I am just trying to make sure people are not going through the same hassle and disappointment I had.
so be aware!Sorry. Off air recording is obviously a crap shoot. I do have to tweak the antenna every time I change channels. So there is a lot of baby sitting the antenna I have to do all the time. Digital Broadcast TV is both a blessing and a curse. I wonder if it's a conspiracy by the cable operators to force subscriptions.

MikeT
Jul 26, 2006, 11:18 PM
Seems like a lot of hassle to avoid using a Sharpie...

[Edit: guess I'm not the only one thinking this way....]
Luddites. :p

Aside from the fact that we don't all pack around Sharpies, Lightscribe and Labelflash offer a little more in the way of neatness.

Anyhow, it's only a matter of time before Apple implements some sort of disc-labeling system. I'd just rather see something sooner rather than later.

amols
Jul 26, 2006, 11:21 PM
Wow!

Apple, please, put Blu-ray drives in Macs! At least as an option.

We need them for handy backups of audio, images and video taking lots of GB.

BR drives costs 1000$ (cheap ones) and disks no less than 40$. You can buy over 3 TB of reusable/reliable/much faster HD Storage in that amount. I think that should be more than enough for any backups.

Multimedia
Jul 26, 2006, 11:28 PM
That would work--when I get a MBP (D2C). My current 'book has S video and 1/8" audio out, which was fine three years ago. I currently run component from my HD sat receiver to the plasma, optical to my HT system and HDMI from the HT to the plasma. I like Multimedia's idea of using an EyeTV DVR and a Mac Mini I have sitting in the play room. I've got DVR on my standard sets upstairs and it's quite addicting.

Multimedia--thanks for reminding me about the ElGato systems. My wife and I were just talking about upgrading the HD receiver to a DVR but for the same price I can own the EyeTV DVR and use my Mac Mini with it.Well I guess you should check your luck with a Terk TV5 off air antennae direct connect to your Digital TV tuner to confirm you can receive decent HDTV Broadcast signals before buying the EyeTV 500.

rxse7en
Jul 26, 2006, 11:28 PM
Just make sure your cable provider allows you to record from it. Make sure the signals are not encrypted.
I purchased EyeTV500 and after I figure out the only way to record HDTV was from over the air antenna. I returned it to Elgato after I found out I would have to spend good amount of money buying a really good outdoor antenna plus make holes in the wall and etc. to be able to connect it to my EyeTV and computer.

That's a good point! Grrrr... Always something. I just checked ElGato's site and they don't offer an HDTV over Sat solution that I can see.

B

rxse7en
Jul 26, 2006, 11:30 PM
Well I guess you should check your luck with a Terk TV5 off air antennae direct connect to your Digital TV tuner to confirm you can receive decent HDTV Broadcast signals before buying the EyeTV 500.

I receive 1080i HDTV signal via satellite. Gotta love MonstersHD. :D

B

Multimedia
Jul 26, 2006, 11:39 PM
I receive 1080i HDTV signal via satellite. Gotta love MonstersHD. :DHow do you record shows on your Mac and archive into mp4 files?I can't! That's why I'm looking for a DVR solution. I can get an HD DVR receiver from Dish for $200 and that's looking like my best option at this point. I just garaged my Yamaha surround system and picked up a Samsung Home Theater system--the HT-Q70 system. 1,000 watts, 5 dvd carousel, HDMI out, plays DIVX and has a USB port that allows me to play DIVX movies off of a thumb drive. I think the HT-Q80 is out now and it has HDMI in and out.Bummer. I guess we're in the twilight zone of non-archival capability so far. Hopefully solutions will surface in the next 12 months. You guys are making me feel very lucky to have 3 off air HD sources (CBS, NBC, Fox) and 1 SD (PBS) that work with EyeTV 500. I didn't realize how hard it is for many others to get HDTV broadcasts off the air as well.

rxse7en
Jul 26, 2006, 11:45 PM
How do you record shows on your Mac and archive into mp4 files? :confused:

I can't! That's why I'm looking for a DVR solution. I can get an HD DVR receiver from Dish for $200 and that's looking like my best option at this point. I just garaged my Yamaha surround system and picked up a Samsung Home Theater system--the HT-Q70 system. 1,000 watts, 5 dvd carousel, HDMI out, plays DIVX and has a USB port that allows me to play DIVX movies off of a thumb drive. I think the HT-Q80 is out now and it has HDMI in and out.

B

rxse7en
Jul 27, 2006, 12:58 AM
BTW, DVD Player only supports HD-DVDs created in DVD Studio Pro. It will not play retail HD-DVDs. :(

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=2041618�

B

Peel
Jul 27, 2006, 01:44 AM
I guess I'm not as much of a purist as some here. I make DVDs off EyeTV digital HD broadcast recordings with Toast 7 and they look and sound very close to the original HD broadcasts on my 24" Dell 1920 x 1200 display. I cannot see much nor hear any difference.

Call me old fashioned but I just don't see why I would want Blu-ray or HD-DVD until they are cost competitive with good old fashioned single layer 4.38 GB DVDs. :rolleyes:

Well maybe on the 24" screen, but go to play it on a 42" or larger plasma monitor, and the difference will become apparent. On the 24" screen you've got a pitch of about 92 ppi, the plasma screens run from 53 ppi for the 42" down to 37 ppi on a 60" screen (remember the resolution doesn't change, just the screen size). On these less dense screens, the full resolution of the HD image, along with the greater color depth that HD provides over NTSC is significant.

LimeiBook86
Jul 27, 2006, 02:39 AM
Anyone Know if Blue-Ray discs are archival? The normal DVD have a high failure rate after a few year in storage. Even CD-R media will not last decades.
Actually this has been proved wrong. As long as your careful, keep them in a good tempered area they'll be fine. I still have some of my original CDs and DVDs that I burned that work fine - of course it doesn't hurt to backup those discs though. Scratching them is easy. ;)

Shadow
Jul 27, 2006, 05:23 AM
I hope this means we will see HDMI out on the next MacBook Pros. I really want to be able to use my soon-to-be-had MacBook Pro Core2Duo as a media center too. With that said, here's to hoping the new MBPs have HDMI and the ability to output Dolby PLII and at least 1080i. My current 1.25ghz G4 book chokes on 720p so I never hook it up to my plasma HDTV.

B

Added:
I'm still not convinced that Blu Ray is going to beat out HD-DVD.
Well the MacBooks Pros already have DVI-out which uses the same protocal as HDMI (the only difference is that HDMI also carries audio, which DVI does not). Adapters are going for only a few £/$.

Gurutech
Jul 27, 2006, 08:28 AM
Well..
I'd like to see BR players or HD-DVD players becoming standard at right price just like DVD players.
However, I don't see BR or HD-DVD as my backup media.
I'd rather use several external hard disk due to cheap price/ gig and easy of use.

starflyer
Jul 27, 2006, 09:19 AM
Do we know at what speed these drives will burn?

dtm

supafly1703
Jul 27, 2006, 09:46 AM
What if they made a high, fast I/O version of the drive so that you could run your entire OS from a BD-RW?

JGowan
Jul 27, 2006, 09:48 AM
I've got a thought...

You've probably already been slapped about this but I haven't read through all the posts...

Dude... I'm assuming you're a Christian to be so up-in-arms about the holiday (but I don't think that's the right example, honestly) -- you need to also be more tolerant of other religious holidays at the same time such as Hananachaka (butchered that) and Kwanza as well as some others, I'd imagine.


Wonder what price they will be by christmas (i bloody hate the term 'the holiday season'!!) anyone any thoughts?

rxse7en
Jul 27, 2006, 10:53 AM
I've got a thought...

You've probably already been slapped about this but I haven't read through all the posts...

Dude... I'm assuming you're a Christian to be so up-in-arms about the holiday (but I don't think that's the right example, honestly) -- you need to also be more tolerant of other religious holidays at the same time such as Hananachaka (butchered that) and Kwanza as well as some others, I'd imagine.

Can't wait for the Ramadan Rush Sales!

Lighten up PC police.

morespce54
Jul 27, 2006, 12:48 PM
Actually this has been proved wrong. As long as your careful, keep them in a good tempered area they'll be fine. I still have some of my original CDs and DVDs that I burned that work fine - of course it doesn't hurt to backup those discs though. Scratching them is easy. ;)

Well I guess not all DVDs were created equal... :D
I have quite a few (both original DVDs and CDs) that aren't working anymore... :(

morespce54
Jul 27, 2006, 12:55 PM
Well..
I'd like to see BR players or HD-DVD players becoming standard at right price just like DVD players.
However, I don't see BR or HD-DVD as my backup media.
I'd rather use several external hard disk due to cheap price/ gig and easy of use.

I wonder how long does it take to burn a BR (or HD-DVD) with that new version of Toast
:rolleyes: :confused: :D

It use to be more than an hour for burning a DVD (x1) of 4 GB...
:rolleyes:

Eidorian
Jul 27, 2006, 01:34 PM
I wonder how long does it take to burn a BR (or HD-DVD) with that new version of Toast
:rolleyes: :confused: :D

It use to be more than an hour for burning a DVD (x1) of 4 GB...
:rolleyes:Blu-Ray: 1x = 36 Mbps
DVD 1x = 11.08 Mbps
HD-DVD: 1x = 36.55 Mbps

seashellz
Jul 27, 2006, 02:11 PM
Dont count HD out as of yet SONY has recieved 2-3 pieces of very bad news.

1. A High Court in the UK has ordered SONY to disolve its merger with BMG.
Fighting this could cost valuable resources.
If they lose, the cost of breakup could well put SONY under. Remember BETAMAX. Yes, I know SONY/BMG is the music arm of the company-but it will be a drain on the whole company.

2. The chipmakers for the PSP3 are having a bitch of a time making any that are worth using in the player-they have a 1 out of 5-6 usable chip ratio.
The rest get used in other less demanding hardware, or get tossed out-. SONY still pays for them-good or not-talk about bleeding.
They are very expensive.

3. Poor PQ reviews, the lack of BR2 (yes folks youve been had-the current discs -or BR1- are not the 'final' version, those COULD be out by November, optimistically-they were rushed out so they could say "Were first!"

They are said to be 'fine tuning' the "real" BR2 disc spec and manufacture.
Translation-it isnt working very well, like the PSP chips.

Briefly king of the world, suddenly things dont bode well for SONY or the BR disc.

JackSYi
Jul 27, 2006, 02:59 PM
Blu Ray is becoming more and more of a reality. :)

Lynxpro
Jul 27, 2006, 04:23 PM
A High Court in the UK has ordered SONY to disolve its merger with BMG. Fighting this could cost valuable resources.
If they lose, the cost of breakup could well put SONY under. Remember BETAMAX. Yes, I know SONY/BMG is the music arm of the company-but it will be a drain on the whole company.

Dude, seriously give it a rest. You've just shot down your credibility because SonyBMG is a separate division that Sony Corp. itself owns a 50% stake in with Bertlesman(n) owning the other 50%. That ruling has no effect on Sony Corp. itself. You citing this on a forum is as lame as the many people on Digg or Slashdot who rush to any thread concerning Sony and post about RootKits when again, it was SonyBMG that did that and not any other SonyCorp. division. Point is, any negative ruling against SonyBMG has no impact at all on Blu-Ray development nor will it give any traction to HD-DVD.

Plus, a UK High Court does not have the power to dissolve SonyBMG. Perhaps for the UK subsidiary division but not for the entire worldwide operations of SonyBMG. The only way SonyBMG would be forced to break up would be if the European Commission or the U.S. Justice Department took action and won in their respective court systems.

The chipmakers for the PSP3 are having a bitch of a time making any that are worth using in the player-they have a 1 out of 5-6 usable chip ratio. The rest get used in other less demanding hardware, or get tossed out-. SONY still pays for them-good or not-talk about bleeding. They are very expensive.

First off, you mean the PS3. Are you a Microsoft shill? The chipmaker is IBM. IBM, Sony, and Toshiba all have vested interests in making the Cell chip a success (although Toshiba would rather not see the PS3 a success because it would wipe out HD-DVD's chance at success). Failure rates will not have an impact on the MSRP of any Sony product for the consumer because they will want the PS3 to obliterate the Microsoft Xbox360 and the HD-DVD platforms all at once.

Poor PQ reviews, the lack of BR2 (yes folks youve been had-the current discs -or BR1- are not the 'final' version, those COULD be out by November, optimistically-they were rushed out so they could say "Were first!" They are said to be 'fine tuning' the "real" BR2 disc spec and manufacture. Translation-it isnt working very well, like the PSP chips.

First off, it was HD-DVD that jumped the gun and shipped first in a desperate attempt to solidify itself before Blu-Ray (and later, the PS3) shipped, not the other way around.

Now with that having been said, get some perspective. The original DVD platform didn't reach maturity or success until the 3rd Generation players were brought out. Both the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray decks currently are on their first generation, and both are showing signs of quality issues. The Toshiba HD-DVD deck had to have a firmware update to keep it from crashing due to Microsoft's usual software krappiness in the form of the iHD software. Both the current HD-DVD and Blu-Ray machines aren't using the greatest chip decoders which are causing both to not truly output at 1080i, let alone 1080p. This will be corrected when the second generation decks from both platforms ship with the new Sigma Designs decoders in the next couple of months. While it is true that Sony is shipping titles in MPEG2 until they bring out their own hardware, once that happens, the encoding in H.264 will be noticibily better than the HD-DVD titles that will continue to ship in Microsoft's inferior VC-1 (ahem, Windows Media 9) codec because Microsoft in truth is supporting HD-DVD simply because it uses the Microsoft iHD software instead of Java (like Blu-Ray does) and thus earns royalities with each HD-DVD deck shipped and every VC-1 encoded movie title also shipped. While Blu-Ray spec wise supports VC-1 (in addition to H.264 MPEG4 and MPEG2), it will be a very cold day in Hell when Sony decides to ship a Blu-Ray disc encoded in VC-1.

The moral of the story is to pick up a Blu-Ray deck when the second (or third) generation hits, and only buy discs encoded in the H.264 codec instead of the current MPEG2 versions. At that time, HD-DVD will be as useful as a Philips CD-i deck or a Circuit City DIVX player.

Briefly king of the world, suddenly things dont bode well for SONY or the BR disc.

Right. I bet you are anxiously awaiting the Microsoft Zune.

TerryJ
Jul 27, 2006, 04:38 PM
The Toshiba HD-DVD deck had to have a firmware update to keep it from crashing due to Microsoft's usual software krappiness in the form of the iHD software.
The firmware update had nothing to do with iHD software.

Both the current HD-DVD and Blu-Ray machines aren't using the greatest chip decoders which are causing both to not truly output at 1080i, let alone 1080p.
Any 1080p television worth anything can easily deinterlace the 1080i signal from the Toshiba HD DVD player with zero image degradation. There simply is no difference. The 1080p vs. 1080i thing (for HD DVD and BD) is a myth.

While it is true that Sony is shipping titles in MPEG2 until they bring out their own hardware, once that happens, the encoding in H.264 will be noticibily better than the HD-DVD titles that will continue to ship in Microsoft's inferior VC-1 (ahem, Windows Media 9) codec because Microsoft in truth is supporting HD-DVD simply because it uses the Microsoft iHD software instead of Java (like Blu-Ray does) and thus earns royalities with each HD-DVD deck shipped and every VC-1 encoded movie title also shipped. While Blu-Ray spec wise supports VC-1 (in addition to H.264 MPEG4 and MPEG2), it will be a very cold day in Hell when Sony decides to ship a Blu-Ray disc encoded in VC-1.

The moral of the story is to pick up a Blu-Ray deck when the second (or third) generation hits, and only buy discs encoded in the H.264 codec instead of the current MPEG2 versions. At that time, HD-DVD will be as useful as a Philips CD-i deck or a Circuit City DIVX player.
Sony has not stated any plan to use H.264 encoding. No studio has stated any plans for H.264 encoding either. It's either MPEG-2 vs. VC-1, and if you've watched anything on HD DVD, you'd know it's capable of amazing results. Compared to all available Blu-Ray discs, VC-1 beats MPEG-2. A better Blu-ray deck will not make the crappy MPEG-2 discs look better, because the problem is with the disc, not the player. Even when BD50 discs are viable (some day!), they'll still use MPEG-2. Warner, who has already released VC-1 encoded HD DVDs, will be releasing the same titles on BD in... you guessed it... MPEG-2.

Furthermore, iHD is apparently much easier to develop for than BD-J. That's one reason why there are already HD DVDs with interesting new features (like the "In Movie Experience" on Bourne Supremacy) vs. no new extra features for any BD discs, nor are there any discs announced with new (BD-J) features.

-Terry

JGowan
Jul 27, 2006, 04:49 PM
Can't wait for the Ramadan Rush Sales!

Lighten up PC police.Bite me. People need to have more tolerance to other religions. Period. Christianity is not the only religion on the planet, though some seem to think it should be.

Artful Dodger
Jul 27, 2006, 04:57 PM
BR drives costs 1000$ (cheap ones) and disks no less than 40$. You can buy over 3 TB of reusable/reliable/much faster HD Storage in that amount. I think that should be more than enough for any backups.

Players are that much but burners are not and discs are about $20. Just read my post on page 2 with the link for a drive and media :cool:
I started that whole thread with the hopes that others had other links of good burners and media that would show how prices were not as high as some "Corporate" companies would have us believe (yeah that sounds odd).
Also the discs are either 1X or 2X to start but with every new day it could change as releases are on the rise.

Lynxpro
Jul 27, 2006, 06:26 PM
Any 1080p television worth anything can easily deinterlace the 1080i signal from the Toshiba HD DVD player with zero image degradation. There simply is no difference. The 1080p vs. 1080i thing (for HD DVD and BD) is a myth.

First, I mentioned that the outputting problem is common with both formats the existing HD-DVD AND Blu-Ray decks currently on the market because the decoder chip is just not that great. That is why people are making a big deal about the upcoming Sigma Designs decoder chip that will come standard in both formats' second generation machines. Look it up.

And deinterlacing an input signal is not as good as the outputting device outputting in progressive scan in the first place. Do you want to argue that upscaling DVD players are just as good as the current HD formats while you are at it?

Sony has not stated any plan to use H.264 encoding. No studio has stated any plans for H.264 encoding either. It's either MPEG-2 vs. VC-1, and if you've watched anything on HD DVD, you'd know it's capable of amazing results. Compared to all available Blu-Ray discs, VC-1 beats MPEG-2. A better Blu-ray deck will not make the crappy MPEG-2 discs look better, because the problem is with the disc, not the player. Even when BD50 discs are viable (some day!), they'll still use MPEG-2. Warner, who has already released VC-1 encoded HD DVDs, will be releasing the same titles on BD in... you guessed it... MPEG-2.

Nobody is arguing that VC-1 does not outperform MPEG2. However, it is nowhere near as good as H.264 MPEG4. We know it, the SMPTE knows it, and of course in their dark hearts, Microsoft knows it too. The problem currently is that the machines on the market do not have good enough decoder chips - again, referencing the problems that will be solved with the Sigma chip hits the market - to decode the H.264 codec. But once the good chips hit the market, it is doubtful that the HD-DVD format will ever back H.264 because that would cheese off Microsoft. And the success of VC-1 and iHD is crucial to Microsoft's entertainment expansion plans. If HD-DVD dies, Microsoft loses out on both VC-1 royalities as well as iHD licensing and places the Xbox360 ultimately at a competitive disadvantage.

Just because Sony hasn't announced H.264 support does not add up to much. They don't even have their own player on the market yet. And until then - as well as the PS3 launch - I doubt they will announce support. After all, currently, Sony is only interested in Blu-Ray being viable for upcoming consumers; they really do not want us buying the Samsung player currently. So no, I (also) highly doubt your assertion that Sony will still cling to MPEG2 when the higher capacity discs hit the market. Furthermore, Sony already uses H.264 on their PSP UMD titles. Obviously, the reason why they haven't done likewise on Blu-Ray discs has to do with the decoder chips, not due to any sort of conspiracy or incompetence factor that you seem to be asserting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Media_Disc

Based upon the info on that link, it is apparent that Sony is no stranger to encoding using H.264 and thus there is no logical reason to conclude that Sony won't shift to using H.264 on all of their Blu-Ray titles once their own players and the PS3 ships.

As for Warner Home Video, they have a vested interest in making sure Blu-Ray does not succeed. Warner and Toshiba both make quite a sizeable fortune off the royalties from the DVD standard. They both want HD-DVD to succeed so they can maintain those royalities. Had Sony and the rest of the Blu-Ray Disc Association agreed to preserving the Warner/Toshiba royalities, there would not be a format war currently, and Toshiba would not have prostituted itself to Microsoft over iHD and VC-1.

Furthermore, iHD is apparently much easier to develop for than BD-J. That's one reason why there are already HD DVDs with interesting new features (like the "In Movie Experience" on Bourne Supremacy) vs. no new extra features for any BD discs, nor are there any discs announced with new (BD-J) features.

Can any other posters shill the Microsoft party line more? "They" said the Sony Playstation2 was "too hard" to program for versus programming for the Microsoft Xbox. Which platform won again? Which platform had the most third-party support? That's right, the "too hard to program for" Playstation2. The reason why there are extra features on the current HD-DVD titles has to do with the fact that they are using VC-1 and the Blu-Ray titles are using the space-hungry MPEG2 codec currently. There's no room right now on Blu-Ray releases for the "extras" you are bringing up. It has nothing to do with "how hard" it is to program BD-J.

Reminds me of how Warner Bros. people started the whole "Brandon Routh is so well endowed that special effects are having to be used to tone down his crotch for *Superman Returns*" rumor that was circulating in the trades and online months before the film debuted. It was a recycled rumor that Warners had used back before the release of the original *Superman* with Christopher Reeve to generate buzz for potential female viewers. Kinda like how you are recycling/repeating the "BD-J is too hard to program for" rumor.

Let us also remember that Apple sits on the Blu-Ray Disc Association board. They could have supported either format, but they chose Blu-Ray for some reason...hmmm... Kinda like how they chose Dolby's AAC format as their "next generation" audio codec instead of Microsoft's (tin can sounding) WMA audio format. That speaks volumes.

TerryJ
Jul 27, 2006, 07:42 PM
Can any other posters shill the Microsoft party line more? "They" said the Sony Playstation2 was "too hard" to program for versus programming for the Microsoft Xbox. Which platform won again? Which platform had the most third-party support? That's right, the "too hard to program for" Playstation2. The reason why there are extra features on the current HD-DVD titles has to do with the fact that they are using VC-1 and the Blu-Ray titles are using the space-hungry MPEG2 codec currently. There's no room right now on Blu-Ray releases for the "extras" you are bringing up. It has nothing to do with "how hard" it is to program BD-J.
Look... honestly the only "winner" I want in this format war is the disc that has the best high definition image and sound, has the most actual (good) movies available, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

I thought, on paper, Blu-ray had the most compelling feature set of the two discs. I pre-ordered a Sony BD deck. That got pushed way back. (I ended up cancelling it. I'll buy it when it comes out... I don't expect shortages.) In the interim, I bought an HD DVD deck. I can afford it and I have a decent sized Hi-def LCD rear projection set that is ISF calibrated that begs for HD content. I love watching stuff in HD. I can't stand watching stuff in SD. My HD DVR is filled to the brim.

HD DVD right now has 5gb more capacity. The VC-1 encoded discs look amazing. The special features are cool on a couple of the discs. The (mandatory) higher bit-rate sound formats sound better.

If Blu-ray (software and hardware) can do it better, then I welcome it. Get those damn 50gb discs out. Start using better codecs now! Start putting innovative features using BD-J. Get some good movies out there. And get some GOOD decks out there. THEN I will believe it. Only then will I buy it. Until then...in my opinion, there is nothing on the BD side of things worth buying.

-Terry

LimeiBook86
Jul 27, 2006, 08:11 PM
Well I guess not all DVDs were created equal... :D
I have quite a few (both original DVDs and CDs) that aren't working anymore... :(
Well some can't last the test of time (I've had some that stopped working myself) but, as long as from now on you get good quality media you'll be fine. :D

stephenli
Jul 27, 2006, 10:24 PM
well if apple is going to rely on sony for bluray then they will have to wait cuz sony is gonna use them all up on the PS3

Hay. PS3's drive is not BD-R drive. You can't burn disc in PS3. btw Sony have already shipped Bluray burners with their new VAIO.

Why announce the support of one standard now when there is another competing standard?

I heard that Final Cut Pro support HD-DVD workflow. Don't be sad. you can still buy an external drive.

groovebuster
Jul 28, 2006, 02:06 AM
Actually this has been proved wrong. As long as your careful, keep them in a good tempered area they'll be fine. I still have some of my original CDs and DVDs that I burned that work fine - of course it doesn't hurt to backup those discs though. Scratching them is easy. ;)
Tell me about it! :rolleyes:

Many of the CDs I burned before 2000 are coasters by now. And they were handeled with extreme care... No UV light and room temperature. I was so stupid to believe the industry claims of '100 years longevity' and used them for archiving my projects.

Now a big part of my 90's projects is lost and I will never get them back. Redundant HD-Backups are the way to go. CDs and DVDs I only use anymore for transporting data (blanks are cheap, they then can stay at their destination) or when I have to hand out a copy of a project to a customer. And of course for music and movies in order to be compatible to the rest of the world. But I would never again archive my projects on any DVD or CD. Too risky...

Blue-Ray as well as HD-DVD are not interesting at all for me at the moment, so I couldn't care less if they are incorporated in the upcoming Mac Pros...

Maybe that changes when the prices come down and HDTV finally gets into a stage where it actually really works flawlessly. Since I am not that big of a TV fan anyway, I don't see the need for it... When HDTV equipment costs as much as the 'normal' equipment these days and my current CRT-TV imploded, I might maybe consider it buying that stuff... Until then I have all I need to be happy...

groovebuster

gugy
Jul 28, 2006, 04:44 PM
Interesting that you had problems with your cds. Usually I never encountered such a thing. I take care of them but not spend too much time worrying about it. Lots of my work are backed up on cd's and dvds as early as the 90's.
I agreed that having a Hard Drive backup is a good thing. I am interested in the high capacity of the BR and HD-DVD discs, but I refuse to pay $50 for a disc. I rather buy at Fry's on promotion a 300GB hard drive for $89. Much better deal.

Until then I think Hard drives are the way to go to archive huge files. It will be interesting when these new dvd discs cost around $5 for 50GB, then I will jump on it.

bigjohn
Jul 30, 2006, 01:21 AM
At this point, I couldn't really care less about Blu Ray or HD-DVD. I'd be more excited if Apple included Lightscribe or equivalent capability in their drives. Unlabeled discs are piled high on my desk.

use a sharpie :)

bigjohn
Jul 30, 2006, 01:30 AM
I've got a thought...

You've probably already been slapped about this but I haven't read through all the posts...

Dude... I'm assuming you're a Christian to be so up-in-arms about the holiday (but I don't think that's the right example, honestly) -- you need to also be more tolerant of other religious holidays at the same time such as Hananachaka (butchered that) and Kwanza as well as some others, I'd imagine.

Kwanzaa has two a's in it. Before you go slapping on others for posts about meaningless things (the guy can't wait for christmas, so what), you might want to open a dictionary yourself and get a clue.

Agnostically,

bigjohn
Jul 30, 2006, 01:35 AM
Interesting that you had problems with your cds. Usually I never encountered such a thing. I take care of them but not spend too much time worrying about it. Lots of my work are backed up on cd's and dvds as early as the 90's.

same here, i just finished moving everything off CD-R, some as old as '97 to DVD-R, DVD-R DL. i figure it's a few years before i start moving everything off the DVD's and onto my new GREEN-RAY burner, cause those 100TB GR-R discs will be bleading edge yo.

XForge
Jul 30, 2006, 10:42 AM
Heh, cool, and as with other similar storage technologies, a disc will take 123087012863018 hours to write and blank media will cost $120370860861 each for about the next 10 years. Still, cool!!!! nonetheless.

rxse7en
Jul 30, 2006, 02:30 PM
Bite me. People need to have more tolerance to other religions. Period. Christianity is not the only religion on the planet, though some seem to think it should be.

Whaaaa!!! An anonymous poster on a computer website doesn't think like I do! Whaaaa!!!!

Practice what you preach, punk.

Multimedia
Jul 31, 2006, 06:34 PM
At this point, I couldn't really care less about Blu Ray or HD-DVD. I'd be more excited if Apple included Lightscribe or equivalent capability in their drives. Unlabeled discs are piled high on my desk.Get a Sharpie. :DJust got word there is a new New CD/DVD Specific Sharpie. Rumor on internet is that regular Sharpie ink leeches into DVDs and CDs destroying the data on them in a few years. Anyone can confirm or refute this rumor?

I just got my first Sharpie "CD/DVD Marker" today - new product that will not do the above damage. :confused: :eek: :(

groovebuster
Jul 31, 2006, 11:48 PM
Usually I never encountered such a thing...
But that is exactly the point... 'Usually' is already no enough for a back-up medium.

The coaster rate for me is around 1:4 for the old burned CDs.

Just check your old CDs for fun. I am pretty sure you'll find some little surprises, also called 'read errors'... ;)

Sometimes just a few files are screwed, but if these files happen to be the file map in the root, the CD definitely has a new life as a coaster.. ;)

groovebuster

groovebuster
Jul 31, 2006, 11:58 PM
It will be interesting when these new dvd discs cost around $5 for 50GB, then I will jump on it.
Are you sure? By then you will get at least 1TB hard drives for 100$ (there are already 750GB drives on the market). I still would prefer the hard drive. Faster data access and easier handling...

groovebuster

poppe
Aug 1, 2006, 12:35 AM
Are you sure? By then you will get at least 1TB hard drives for 100$ (there are already 750GB drives on the market). I still would prefer the hard drive. Faster data access and easier handling...

groovebuster

To me I think Discs need to me eliminated in all forms. No blue Ray no HD-DVD no dual layer anyhting.

Lets just use memory sticks and Hard drives.

Can you imagine if You Car stero no longer had CD player slots, but Say a new Credit Card size flash drive with 8 GBs... that'd be nice...

To me the whole Disc format in every way is a pain...

groovebuster
Aug 1, 2006, 01:52 AM
Can you imagine if You Car stero no longer had CD player slots, but Say a new Credit Card size flash drive with 8 GBs... that'd be nice...
Yes, I can... and that would be awesome! It's nice that you can connect your iPod to the car stereo (if it has a line-in), but just another expensive gadget you need to carry around all the time and overall very expensive. Since years I am waiting for a car stereo that is capable of using SD or CF cards. MP3 playback from CDs is already no issue anymore since years. When the next logical step is finally coming?

To me the whole Disc format in every way is a pain...
Yup,... it is yesterday's technology on steroids...

groovebuster

groovebuster
Aug 1, 2006, 01:59 AM
It shows that I didn't check on that subject for a while... :)

Pretty cool:

http://mobile.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL027692&pathId=54&page=1

groovebuster

Multimedia
Aug 2, 2006, 11:13 AM
Japanese Mac users get first OS X-friendly Blu-ray burner from Logitech mid-August (http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/08/02/logitec_mac_blu-ray_disc_burner/). Only $1148 folks. :eek: I guess somebody's gotta start somewhere. At least we know they are really almost for sale somewhere on planet Earth. :rolleyes: ;) Comes with Blu-ray version of Toast 7 Titanium.

"Logitec also said the drive - dubbed the LBD-A2FU2/WM - will support DVD-RAM, DVD±R/RW, dual-layer DVD±R and CD-R/RW discs. The unit has both USB 2.0 and Firewire interfaces on board."

Wonder how much these burners will cost this time next summer?

For $1148 you can buy 4 Terabytes of Hard Drives today. That would be eighty 50GB Blu-ray discs @ $50 each would be $4,000 for the blank media to record 4 Terabytes. $1,000 per Terabyte Vs. $250 per Terabyte of HD storage. I just don't get the economics of this Blu-ray thing at all. :eek: :confused:

Turbojugend27
Aug 2, 2006, 01:33 PM
I'd wait until they get BR working fine, last I checked they couldn't get 50 gigs working properly, only 25. So as of right now, HD-DVD holds more at 30 gigs than Blu-ray at 25.

kauthor
Aug 4, 2006, 05:29 PM
I went to Comic-Con and they mentioned that Blu-Ray and HD-DVD does not work very well.

Mac Rules
Aug 4, 2006, 05:31 PM
:eek: Japanese Mac users get first OS X-friendly Blu-ray burner from Logitech mid-August (http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/08/02/logitec_mac_blu-ray_disc_burner/). Only $1148 folks. :eek: I guess somebody's gotta start somewhere. At least we know they are really almost for sale somewhere on planet Earth. :rolleyes: ;) Comes with Blu-ray version of Toast 7 Titanium.

"Logitec also said the drive - dubbed the LBD-A2FU2/WM - will support DVD-RAM, DVD±R/RW, dual-layer DVD±R and CD-R/RW discs. The unit has both USB 2.0 and Firewire interfaces on board."

Wonder how much these burners will cost this time next summer?

For $1148 you can buy 4 Terabytes of Hard Drives today. That would be eighty 50GB Blu-ray discs @ $50 each would be $4,000 for the blank media to record 4 Terabytes. $1,000 per Terabyte Vs. $250 per Terabyte of HD storage. I just don't get the economics of this Blu-ray thing at all. :eek: :confused:

OUCH!!!!!:eek: But very cool!

poppe
Aug 4, 2006, 06:29 PM
Yes, I can... and that would be awesome! It's nice that you can connect your iPod to the car stereo (if it has a line-in), but just another expensive gadget you need to carry around all the time and overall very expensive. Since years I am waiting for a car stereo that is capable of using SD or CF cards. MP3 playback from CDs is already no issue anymore since years. When the next logical step is finally coming?


Yup,... it is yesterday's technology on steroids...

groovebuster

I know Radio about 3 years ago had a memory stick option, but it never caught on...

The CyberPoet
Nov 15, 2006, 12:56 PM
In doing some research, I found out that the basic Pioneer DVR-111 series SuperDrives Apple uses (some G4/all G5/all Intel towers) have the hardware capability to do LabelFlash direct-to-disk-surface label burning with the compatible disks. LabelFlash is the NEC-originated competitor to LightScribe, does basically the same thing on LightScribe-compatible disks.
On the Windows side, there are lots of sites out there that talk about flashing the ROMs to enable the feature for certain revision letters & firmware versions of the DVR-111 drives, while other versions of the drive (DVR-111L) are already fully capable (no clue on the ones Apple shipped with the Macs -- I stopped paying attention when I found there were ZERO software apps to support it on the Mac side that I could find).

Personally, I would really like to see Apple provide the feature as an OS-bundled utility app or added-feature in an existing Apple burner app (like the one in the iLife bundle).

As of March '05, Roxio also said they were going to support LightScribe (and possibly LabelFlash) in their future Mac releases, but I didn't see any mention of it in the feature sets of Toast & Toast Titanium 6 & 7, both of which were either updated or released after that date. Theoretically, they could also support LightScribe (if licensed) to burn images into unused portions of the dataside (as could any other burner app), to create a label effect (see http://www.yamahamultimedia.com/yec/tech/discta2_01.asp for details on the technology).

The epson CD-printer solution seems a bit silly for my uses, if I have no other use for the printer, mostly because of the consumables costs (and, indeed, with a big HP laser color printer here, I have zero other use for the Epson and am not thrilled by their putty-style inks and subsequent print head maintenance/cleaning processes that waste a goodly chunk of the ink reservior).

As for the sharpie comments, I create CD's & DVD's for clients and would prefer to present a more "professional image" on the disks than hand-written solutions. I was printing color labels through my laser printer and setting them in (usually using Avery CD labels), but some of the clients, esp. those with very thin portables seemed to be having issues with the thicker disks as a result, so I went back to sharpies as a general rule. The ability to do LabelFlash disks with hardware I already own would be great...

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

SFVCyclone
Nov 15, 2006, 01:13 PM
Anyone know how much Blu ray RW disc will cost here in the states?

twoodcc
Nov 15, 2006, 03:49 PM
In doing some research, I found out that the basic Pioneer DVR-111 series SuperDrives Apple uses (some G4/all G5/all Intel towers) have the hardware capability to do LabelFlash direct-to-disk-surface label burning with the compatible disks. LabelFlash is the NEC-originated competitor to LightScribe, does basically the same thing on LightScribe-compatible disks.
On the Windows side, there are lots of sites out there that talk about flashing the ROMs to enable the feature for certain revision letters & firmware versions of the DVR-111 drives, while other versions of the drive (DVR-111L) are already fully capable (no clue on the ones Apple shipped with the Macs -- I stopped paying attention when I found there were ZERO software apps to support it on the Mac side that I could find).

Personally, I would really like to see Apple provide the feature as an OS-bundled utility app or added-feature in an existing Apple burner app (like the one in the iLife bundle).

As of March '05, Roxio also said they were going to support LightScribe (and possibly LabelFlash) in their future Mac releases, but I didn't see any mention of it in the feature sets of Toast & Toast Titanium 6 & 7, both of which were either updated or released after that date. Theoretically, they could also support LightScribe (if licensed) to burn images into unused portions of the dataside (as could any other burner app), to create a label effect (see http://www.yamahamultimedia.com/yec/tech/discta2_01.asp for details on the technology).

The epson CD-printer solution seems a bit silly for my uses, if I have no other use for the printer, mostly because of the consumables costs (and, indeed, with a big HP laser color printer here, I have zero other use for the Epson and am not thrilled by their putty-style inks and subsequent print head maintenance/cleaning processes that waste a goodly chunk of the ink reservior).

As for the sharpie comments, I create CD's & DVD's for clients and would prefer to present a more "professional image" on the disks than hand-written solutions. I was printing color labels through my laser printer and setting them in (usually using Avery CD labels), but some of the clients, esp. those with very thin portables seemed to be having issues with the thicker disks as a result, so I went back to sharpies as a general rule. The ability to do LabelFlash disks with hardware I already own would be great...

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

interesting. i would also be interested in this, but depending on the cost of the disks. and i already have over 100 regular dvd+r's (on sale) waiting to be burned

iSee
Nov 15, 2006, 03:58 PM
At this point, I couldn't really care less about Blu Ray or HD-DVD. I'd be more excited if Apple included Lightscribe or equivalent capability in their drives. Unlabeled discs are piled high on my desk.

Sharpie

Edit: never mind, I see this was beaten to death on p 4