Mac Pro Announced [Archive] - Page 2

shelterpaw

Aug 7, 2006, 10:50 PM

A note for 3rd party upgrades: If you want to upgrade your HD or RAM you can search New Egg, which does carry the RAM and they have a 1GB module that is cheapter to purchase than getting the 512MB or 2GB.

For general computer components, I often price things at Pricewatch.com.

Before you make a RAM purchase, be careful. I have no idea what the requirements, but from past experiece Apple hardware can be picky. The days of the old Blue and White G3's, which I owned, would call for ram with a latency of 2-2-2. If it didn't fit that bill, it didn't work. OWC used to sell that brand as well, but it caused crashes. Worked fine in a PC oddly enough.

The new RAM for these systems comes with different latency's. I highly recommend finding out what Apple's latency is and then only purchasing RAM with the same latency. Who knows, perhaps different latency's will work fine, but it's best to be on the safe side and avoid the headaches.

Hard Drives are different, but try to get liquid ball bearing drives. They're almost all quieter than regular drives.

I hope this info helps.

nerd

Aug 7, 2006, 10:54 PM

Spec'd the way I want, it's 7 grand.

I went through and selected all the available (and most expensive) options (maxed out the ram, 4 hard drives, a couple of 30 inch displays, etc.) and the total was only around.... $18000.00 (!)

I then became a little paranoid that I might accidentally hit some sort of 1-click shopping button and have to file for bankruptcy so I quickly closed my browser window.

milozauckerman

Aug 7, 2006, 11:01 PM

Your logic completely defeats my ability to understand it. I use Apple hardware and do not like being called a fool by a 'user of a lesser God'.
What?

I haven't owned a Windows desktop since the last millenium. Can you not read my signature (which is, actually, out of date - I'm typing this on a refurbed 17" iMac).

But, the rest of your post seems to be useless, irrational grandstanding. Dell does not offer any decent video card standard, nor do they offer 2 GB of RAM. You say the graphics card is useless, but it is fine for a high-end file-server. Those wanting high-end graphics have two solid options.
Yes, they do offer 2GB of RAM standard from the upper-level XPS410 on up. Along with a 500GB HD, and dual optical drives standard. And a slightly better graphics card. For about $1850-1900, from what I recall.

Gateway offers all of the above with an X1900 XT stock for under $2k.

Yep, they aren't quads but for the vast majority of potential buyers, a better GPU offers more value than a second processor (or, for $2499 it should be a dual Xeon and a reasonable GPU).

All the G5 towers you saw and Apple sold - were they 'high-end file-servers'? If that's all this new one is good for, where's the G5's actual replacement?

If you need to be schooled in "..but exactly which apps does that matter on?", this machine is definitely NOT for you. If you cannot find an Apple computer that fits your requirements, that is sad. But, you should have to walk away reluctantly, not "..turn and run from Apple hardware in a heartbeat."
I've yet to see a shred of evidence that four cores offers meaningful improvement over two cores running programs through Rosetta.

Apparently you didn't understand my post. At all.

JoshRtek

Aug 7, 2006, 11:11 PM

I can't decide if I should nix the 250 GB hard drive and save $67 and get the 160 GB drive. I already have 3 250 SATA hard drives in my pc that I plan to put in the empty drive bays, so it's not like I'd spend the saved money on another hard drive. I do plan on doing a Boot Camp partition, which is why I'm considering the 250 GB hard drive...suggestions?

I briefly considered getting the second SuperDrive, but then I realized that when I'm work, on our G5 Powermacs, I have never, ever needed a second drive (as disc-to-disc copying is kinda obsolete nowadays...I can't remember the last time I copied a disc for someone). Better to leave it open for a Blu-Ray drive anyways.

I also decided against the 2 gig of RAM upgrade, as Crucial should have a "guaranteed solution" for a much cheaper price than the Apple upgrade.

Not really in the need for a 512 MB video card... I do play games, but not enough to justify over $300 dollars worth. I can play Homeworld 2 on my 12" 1.5 GHz G4 Powerbook just fine...and I think I can get HL2 to run with the nVidia 7300 GT.

Any advice?

Multimedia

Aug 7, 2006, 11:14 PM

actually crucial already has your ram, apple's basically using an intel 5000 motherboard:

http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.asp?Mfr%2BProductline=Intel%2B+Motherboards&mfr=Intel&tabid=AM&model=S5000XVN&submit=GoOnly $344 a new low price (http://www.crucial.com/store/MPartspecs.Asp?mtbpoid=EE744046A5CA7304&WSMD=S5000XVN&WSPN=CT2KIT12872AF667).

Crucial Part Number: CT2KIT12872AF667
Module Size: 2GB kit (1GBx2)
Package: 240-pin DIMM
Feature: DDR2 PC2-5300
Specs: DDR2 PC2-5300 • CL=5 • FULLY BUFFERED • ECC • DDR2-667 • 1.8V • 128Meg x 72

Peace

Aug 7, 2006, 11:17 PM

I may have got the chip wrong but it IS a dual dual core.;)

Multimedia

Aug 7, 2006, 11:20 PM

I can't decide if I should nix the 250 GB hard drive and save $67 and get the 160 GB drive. I already have 3 250 SATA hard drives in my pc that I plan to put in the empty drive bays, so it's not like I'd spend the saved money on another hard drive. I do plan on doing a Boot Camp partition, which is why I'm considering the 250 GB hard drive...suggestions? Any advice?Lose the 250 and save $67. You can buy 400 GB/SATA/300 drives for $99. So the 250 is way overpriced for the 90GB difference. :)

You did right sticking with the base RAM. See Above. Buy the Crucial 2GB kit and you have 3GB in only 4 slots with the base 1GB costing only $44. If you bought Apple's 2GB "deal" for $300 you would only have 2GB in 4 slots - effectively paying $300 for 1GB in the form of an INFERIOR 2 x 512 sticks - INSANE. $344 for the 2x1GB Crucial Kit (http://www.crucial.com/store/MPartspecs.Asp?mtbpoid=EE744046A5CA7304&WSMD=S5000XVN&WSPN=CT2KIT12872AF667) Minus $300 you would have given Apple = $44 for the Apple 2x512 kit. See?

JoshRtek

Aug 7, 2006, 11:30 PM

So do I just get the 400 GB drive and run the restore disc on it, making it the main drive

And I'm going to go ahead and play devil's advocate and suggest that the Crucial RAM might not work since it's not Apple RAM? (or just since Crucial doesn't have a Mac Pro option on their upgrade guide...)?

Multimedia

Aug 7, 2006, 11:36 PM

So do I just get the 400 GB drive and run the restore disc on it, making it the main drive?Sure. Just reinstall off the DVD Install Disc. Takes only a few minutes. Put the 160 in an external USB 2 case you can get for $30 at Fry's. Or put it aside for when you sell it. Sales feature - New Home Drive NEVER USED. That's what i would do. I wouldn't even boot off it to begin with. I would remove it and replace it with a Maxtor, Western Digital or Seagate 400, 500 or 750 and install off the DVD first thing.

BTW for the $400 each Apple is selling 500GB HDs you can buy 750GB HDs for a total of 3TB not 2TB Apple says is the limit.And I'm going to go ahead and play devil's advocate and suggest that the Crucial RAM might not work since it's not Apple RAM? (or just since Crucial doesn't have a Mac Pro option on their upgrade guide...)?Now you're yanking my chain right? It says it is for the motherboard Apple is using. Intel S5000XVN Motherboard. It will definitely work. Since Mac Pro was just announced Crucial just hasn't updated that web page yet. No biggie. Don't worry. Crucial has a money back guarantee anyway man.

Apple RAM? There is no such thing as Apple RAM. They buy their RAM from third parties just like you and me. ;) It's one of their biggest profit centers - they are so making a killing on their ram upgrades it is almost at the Greedy stage of behavior.

JoshRtek

Aug 7, 2006, 11:42 PM

I'm also waiting on the Bluetooth and Wi-Fi option until I can buy the install kit in the Apple store down the street at the mall. I would have it pre-installed, but I need the computer next week for a job and it can't wait.

(and the G5 Powermac module does not work with the Mac Pro, or so the store tech told me on the phone today).

BTW, thanks for all the help. There are so many options with this new computer; it's like finally being able to afford a BMW and walking in and being dumbfounded by all the options.

And as far as Apple RAM, I should know better. I bought a gig stick Corsair Value Stick SO-DIMM at Fry's for my 12" Powerbook and it works great!

Multimedia

Aug 7, 2006, 11:47 PM

3CCD

Aug 7, 2006, 11:47 PM

Incredible. Love it. I still love my single 1.6Ghz PowerMac G5. Definitely going Intel once 10.5 is released.

Multimedia

Aug 7, 2006, 11:51 PM

Incredible. Love it. I still love my single 1.6Ghz PowerMac G5. Definitely going Intel once 10.5 is released.I'm with you unless I can get a "grant" from a relative. I'm more inclined to want a 17" Merom MBP this year. But I would pull the trigger on this model if I can get help. :) Truth is, while Apple is trying to say these are a lot faster than the G5 Quad, they are not. We need more cores.

But I do love the expadability of this new model. Way more easy to get a lot more stuff inside. Especially love the dual 5.25" Bays which could alternately be used to house a PATA HD above one optical on that PATA bus for a total of 3.75TB possible (5 x 750) inside. I do that on my G5 Quad for a total possible 2.25TB inside.

JoshRtek

Aug 7, 2006, 11:51 PM

So they are going to be selling the Bluetooth upgrade option alacarte? That's great news.

Haven't they been selling the G5 Powermac BT/AP module upgrade kit in stores for a while now? I even hear they install it for free...

...Anyhow...here it goes...baseline 2.66 GHz system, minus the 250 for the 160 GD drive...wish me luck, be back in a few minutes.

Agathon

Aug 8, 2006, 12:00 AM

Yes. I bought a work truck for $15000 and made them give me a $100 bedliner free. The amount I'm spending has nothing to do with my desire to extract the most value for myself.

Apple ain't a charity, I want every last penny I can squeeze from our transactions.

I laughed at this.

The problem here is that you're one of those awful tightwads. Don't go blaming Apple or anyone else for your personality disorder.

bloodycape

Aug 8, 2006, 12:03 AM

This is kind of interesting.
http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6625581.html?tag=blog

shelterpaw

Aug 8, 2006, 12:14 AM

I laughed at this.

The problem here is that you're one of those awful tightwads. Don't go blaming Apple or anyone else for your personality disorder.
Perhaps he just doesn't have as much discretionary income as you and he wants to get the most bang for his buck. :)

bloodycape

Aug 8, 2006, 12:15 AM

Has Apple given their ID department the year off? Or have the reassigned everyone to make the iPod look cooler? No I wasn't expecting a radical redesign, because aside from the MacBook there hasn't been one in a long time.
I miss the good old days when Apple would not only drastically change the case design every time a new processor was used, but they would also do some major tweeking of materials and color for minor speed bumps. I know it's hard with laptops and the mini because they are so simple all you can really do is change colors and materials used. But the towers and the iMacs.... :(

I hope Apple doesn't simplify themselves out of the industrial design business. Not yet. They do seem to be getting a little lazy though.

The second one of the bottom is an eMac and was suppose to be different from an iMac. BTW you kinda of skipped the iMac G5, granted it pretty much looked to the same (sans front row and isight on the earlier models). But yes I see what you are saying about the designs. I was thinking the same thing wondering why the mb was the only one to have a more major design change.

70355

Aug 8, 2006, 12:18 AM

The problem here is that you're one of those awful tightwads.

And you're a sucker.

Multimedia

Aug 8, 2006, 12:27 AM

This is kind of interesting.

Macs are cheaper than PCs? Yes (http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6625581.html?tag=blog) by CNET's Andrew GruenYeah this is definitely Apple's Power Move into high end PC sales. Anyone who wants a Quad Core PC is going to want to buy a Mac Pro no matter how much they hate OS X and love XP. The $1200-$1300 saved will buy 6GB of more ram and a copy of XP Pro. :p

The gloves are off. This is WAR.

Apple is now really STICKING IT to DELL and HP Big Time.

BenRoethig

Aug 8, 2006, 12:33 AM

Mac OS X not do anything for you? :) I do agree that there is space for a Mid-range desktop.

I think if Apple just made the Mac Mini a bit bigger. They could fit in a Core 2 Duo (Conroe) inside along with a 3.5" Hard Drive and GMA X3000. The 1.86 GHz Conroe kills the Yonah Core Solo in everything and costs less than the Core Solo. A 3.5" Hard Drive is also much better in the value department. Couple this with an option for a Single-Woodcrest Mac Pro and it completely eliminates the need for a mid-range tower.

I'm thinking something more like this myself:

Mac Express(working name)
All models:
Mac Pro case
16x Superdrive (extra drive bay)
SATA hard drive (2 extra bays)
1 x16 PCI-Express slot
3 x1 PCI-Express slot
Front Media card reader
2 Front USB 2.0, 3 rear USB 2.0
1 Front, 1 Rear Firewire 400
Gigabit Ethernet
Front headphone
7.1 Audio
Airport Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0EDR

3 configurations

1.8ghz Core 2 Duo (2.0ghz BTO) with intel p965 chipset
512mb DDR1066
160gb hard drive (250, 500gb BTO)
128mb GeForce 7300GS (256mb Geforce 7600GS, 512mb 7600GT, or 512mb 7900GS BTO)
$1099

2.4ghz Core 2 Duo (2.66ghz BTO) with intel p965 chipset
1gb DDR 1066
250gb hard drive (500gb BTO)
256mb Geforce 7600GS (512mb 7600GT or 512mb 7900GS BTO)
$1499

2.93ghz Core 2 Extreme with Nvidia Nforce570 SLI chipset
1gb DDR 1066
250gb hard drive
512mb GeForce 7600 GX2 SLI graphics card (1gb 7950 GX2 BTO)
$1999

JoshRtek

Aug 8, 2006, 12:35 AM

Anyone who wants top of the line Quad Core PC has got to want to buy a Mac Pro no matter how much they hate OS X and love XP.

My cousin was in the market for a new laptop about a month ago. He was quite jealous of my 12" Powerbook and wanted to make the switch, had it not been for a certain software program called Hyperion Essbase (database software).

However, when the MacbookPros came out with Bootcamp, the decision was non-existant. He doesn't use the Mac OS X side of his computer at all, but if it weren't for that one PC program, he'd have no use for Windows XP. Nonetheless, he loves his MBP and will probably never go back to non-Apple hardware again.

Multimedia

Aug 8, 2006, 12:54 AM

I'm thinking something more like this myself:

Mac Express(working name)
All models:
Mac Pro case
16x Superdrive (extra drive bay)
SATA hard drive (2 extra bays)
1 x16 PCI-Express slot
3 x1 PCI-Express slot
Front Media card reader
2 Front USB 2.0, 3 rear USB 2.0
1 Front, 1 Rear Firewire 400
Gigabit Ethernet
Front headphone
7.1 Audio
Airport Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0EDR

3 configurations

1.8ghz Core 2 Duo (2.0ghz BTO) with intel p965 chipset
512mb DDR1066
160gb hard drive (250, 500gb BTO)
128mb GeForce 7300GS (256mb Geforce 7600GS, 512mb 7600GT, or 512mb 7900GS BTO)
$1099

2.4ghz Core 2 Duo (2.66ghz BTO) with intel p965 chipset
1gb DDR 1066
250gb hard drive (500gb BTO)
256mb Geforce 7600GS (512mb 7600GT or 512mb 7900GS BTO)
$1499

2.93ghz Core 2 Extreme with Nvidia Nforce570 SLI chipset
1gb DDR 1066
250gb hard drive
512mb GeForce 7600 GX2 SLI graphics card (1gb 7950 GX2 BTO)
$1999I know what you mean. I agree this would be good territory to invade. But the top total 6GHz is in the same price range as the Quad 2 GHz = 8GHz Mac Pro. I don't see how the bottom can be less than 2GHz with the 4MB L2 shared cache. Middle is probably right, but maybe faster. So it looks to me like two models would work here or better yet just one plus faster and slower processor options like the Mac Pro setup. :)

wildmac

Aug 8, 2006, 01:03 AM

aswitcher

Aug 8, 2006, 01:19 AM

madoka

Aug 8, 2006, 01:22 AM

You can buy 400 GB/SATA/300 drives for $99.

Dude, you've mentioned this $99 400gb drive three times now and make it sound like everyone should be able to get this price at will, but you fail to mention that it was a ONE TIME deal that quickly sold out and hasn't since reappeared.

Multimedia

Aug 8, 2006, 01:32 AM

Dude, you've mentioned this $99 400gb drive three times now and make it sound like everyone should be able to get this price at will, but you fail to mention that it was a ONE TIME deal that quickly sold out and hasn't since reappeared.Labor Day. Meanwhile it's $119-$129 - still cheap.

ShnikeJSB

Aug 8, 2006, 01:40 AM

Meanwhile, I just purchased a brand new perpendicular recording Seagate 7200.10 320GB 16mb cache SATAII hard drive from NewEgg a couple weeks ago for $95 shipped...

:p

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148140

JoshRtek

Aug 8, 2006, 01:42 AM

Labor Day. Meanwhile it's $119-$129 - still cheap.

Fry's always has crazy deals on any major holiday. Break out your wallets, 'cause Memorial Day is about up.

(BTW, that deal was on a Seagate drive, no? Pretty damn good).

iris_failsafe

Aug 8, 2006, 01:44 AM

That second dvd drive bay, is it for another superdrive or just have the hardware ready for a HdDVD or Blueray drive? I would love one of those on my Mac....

My ideal config as of today

Mac Pro
Part Number: Z0D8
Both Bluetooth 2.0+EDR and AirPort Extreme
Apple Keyboard and Mighty Mouse - Western Spanish
1 x SuperDrive
Accessory kit
Two 2GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
2GB (4 x 512MB)
500GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
Mac OS X - U.S. English
ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB (2 x dual-link DVI)
Estimated Ship: 3-5 weeks

Multimedia

Aug 8, 2006, 01:48 AM

Fry's always has crazy deals on any major holiday. Break out your wallets, 'cause Memorial Day is about up.

(BTW, that deal was on a Seagate drive, no? Pretty damn good).No, it was Maxtor 400 SATA/300. I'm sure one will be up on Labor Day. The 400GB HD size is rapidly becoming the new commodity size IE 25¢/GB.

Apple selling 500GB HDs for 80¢/GB is really obscene greed. Upsets me to see them trying to take advantage of their customers with very high prices on their HDs and RAM.

ImNoSuperMan

Aug 8, 2006, 01:49 AM

Hmmmmm....
It really seems like a good time to retire my old MDD. Still, $5400 is a lot of money. (what you have to pay here in sweden with edu discount for a 2.66 MP, X1900 XT, 500Gb + 23'')
Hmmmmm... tempted, very very tempted.

Side note: I have actually considered buying it in US and sneak it back to Sweden if I just could figure out how to transport it....

But if something goes wrong with your MacPro you`d have to send it back to USA to use applecare. Howzzat for a saving:p :p

Multimedia

Aug 8, 2006, 01:50 AM

That second dvd drive bay, is it for another superdrive or just have the hardware ready for a HdDVD or Blueray drive? I would love one of those on my Mac....Or one internal PATA HD. I have one on top of my Optical in my Quad G5.

madoka

Aug 8, 2006, 01:52 AM

Labor Day. Meanwhile it's $119-$129 - still cheap.

Yeah, I know, I got 3 of them back then. My point is that your posts are deceptive. It never went back to that price. And BTW, it's $140 +shipping +tax at Fry's right now. No one reputable has them for $119, let alone the $99 you keep quoting.

THX1139

Aug 8, 2006, 01:59 AM

Has anyone been able to watch that whole keynote without it breaking up like a bad windows-media straming feed?... egad. Apple makes themselves look bad if they can't dedicate enough server redundancy to meet the demand... I'm on a high-speed cable modem line and I still can't get more than 5 seconds without it breaking up....

Dude, there is already a thread for this..

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=222602

Multimedia

Aug 8, 2006, 02:07 AM

Yeah, I know, I got 3 of them back then. My point is that your posts are deceptive. It never went back to that price. And BTW, it's $140 +shipping +tax at Fry's right now. No one reputable has them for $119, let alone the $99 you keep quoting.If they were once $99, they will be $99 again. OK. I didn't mean NOW. I meant within a few weeks or a month or two. Excuse me for having a different opinion than you and for not being clear enough to avoid your need to criticise someone who puts something differently than you would.

madoka

Aug 8, 2006, 02:11 AM

If they were once $99, they will be $99 again.

Yeah, I guess everyone should wait for gas to go back down to $1.19 a gallon too. :rolleyes:

Yes dumbass, given the pace of technology, it will eventually go back down to that price, but the point is you cannot get one for $99 NOW like you've been claiming on these boards.

Seriously users should have to go through some sort of basic logic/IQ test before they are allowed to post.

THX1139

Aug 8, 2006, 02:12 AM

daneoni

Aug 8, 2006, 02:14 AM

But if something goes wrong with your MacPro you`d have to send it back to USA to use applecare. Howzzat for a saving:p :p

Not necessarily true AppleCare is now international for both desktops and laptops

Multimedia

Aug 8, 2006, 02:15 AM

I'll probably swap out the stock drive for a 10K Western Digital Raptor. I'll put the OS and all applications on that drive and then install a couple of 500GB for files. The Raptor will scream on startup and everything will be just that much snappier. It's the worlds fastest drive...

Western Digital's Raptor (http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=1799)

I love how easy it is to swap out drives! You can store projects on drives and then load the drive/project only when you need it. Great for large video projects! I almost don't need my external firewire drives anymore. :)That's a great plan. Yeah they are up to 150GB too. :) Unfortunately they are still only be offered with a 1.5 MB/sec transfer rate (buffer to host) instead of the 3MB/sec capacity of the new Mac Pro's SATA Bus. Kind of a bummer. :( Maybe if you can be patient they will come out with a 3MB/sec version. Worth calling them and asking if it's in the pipeline before you drop $250 on the current model.

JoshRtek

Aug 8, 2006, 02:15 AM

1. You are going to spend thousands on a Mac PRO and you are going to pitch a fit over adding wireless for less than 80 bucks?

Since I needed the computer right away, I'm hoping the offer an upgrade kit in store to be user-installable. If it's BTO only, I'm going to be pissed.

Or one internal PATA HD. I have one on top of my Optical in my Quad G5.

Does this mean the second optical drive bay is Parallel ATA and not Serial? That would be awesome because I could use my old Plextor 16x DVD burner from my PC.

THX1139

Aug 8, 2006, 02:18 AM

Yeah, I guess everyone should wait for gas to go back down to $1.19 a gallon too. :rolleyes:

Yes dumbass, given the pace of technology, it will eventually go back down to that price, but the point is you cannot get one for $99 NOW like you've been claiming on these boards.

Seriously users should have to go through some sort of basic logic/IQ test before they are allowed to post.

Or how about a civility test?

On behalf of Multimedia... I think you need to take a Quaalude. At the least, cut back on the caffeine dude.

madoka

Aug 8, 2006, 02:23 AM

Or how about a civility test?

On behalf of Multimedia... I think you need to take a Quaalude. At the least, cut back on the caffeine dude.

I was civil the first THREE times I replied. And each time he continued lying to cover up his deficiencies. First it was $99, then $119, then he couldn't point to one place less than $140. Sorry I don't like guys that BS that much.

ImNoSuperMan

Aug 8, 2006, 02:38 AM

Engadget also picked up on this but gave more detail - it's new universal applications that are being announced this week:
10:24AM - ".... I'm pleased to report that there are more than 3,000 universal applications and we at Apple would like to say, thank you, thank you guys. "You guys have done a phenomenal job and there are a lot more being announced at the developer conference this week."

Did anyone see the QT stream and find out what did steve actually say. The MRLIVE quotes it as "10:24 am lots more announcements during the next week"

Which one is true? The former seems to hint software announcements during WWDC:eek: while the latter makes me think more hardware announcements in the upcoming weeks:confused:

gnasher729

Aug 8, 2006, 02:38 AM

I've yet to see a shred of evidence that four cores offers meaningful improvement over two cores running programs through Rosetta.

Has nothing to do with Rosetta at all.

Rosetta translates PowerPC code to Intel code when you start a program. If the program is capabable of using four processors on a PowerPC, like Photoshop, then it will use the four processors on a Mac Pro and run faster.

As a result, the new Mac Pro machines are cheaper and will run _any_ code faster than the dual core G5 Macs.

aswitcher

Aug 8, 2006, 02:42 AM

Evangelion

Aug 8, 2006, 02:45 AM

I don't understand why people are complaining about the Bluetooth and wireless not being included. These are not portables, they won't move, and in many cases professionals don't care if the keyboard is wired or want it wired for some specific reason. Wireless internet is for portable computers folks, not a big hunk of aluminum that will sit on the floor or desk permanently. Wired is also still faster than wireless...if you are in a networked office environment that can make a massive difference.

Maybe. But last time I checked, Mac Mini and iMac both have wireless built right in, and those are desktops. And there ARE professionals who value clutter-free desktop. There ARE professionals who would like to use the PowerMac with WLAN. You are basically saying that "this is not an issue, since in many cases pro's don't need these features". You might be right, but you would be also wrong since many pro's do want these features!

You are basically making excuses for a lack of features.

Note: I do love the new MacPro's :). _almost_ everything I could wish for, for lower prices than I expected. And I must say that these fit my predictions almost perfectly. I said that MAcPro's would be all Quads. And I was right. I predicted three models with 2x 2Ghz Woodcrest for $1999, 2x 2.33GHz Woodcrest for $2499 and 2x 3Ghz Woodcrest for $3499. I was almost right. I wished for 4x drive-bays and I got it (although I did wish for hot-swappable drives in front-mounted drive-bays like in xServe).

Now, only thing left hoping for is MacPro Mini....

Multimedia

Aug 8, 2006, 02:46 AM

Since I needed the computer right away, I'm hoping the offer an upgrade kit in store to be user-installable. If it's BTO only, I'm going to be pissed.Well they didn't used to but maybe they do now. I guess it's something you will have to wait for short term - like that $99 deal on the 400GB SATA/300s. ;) Does this mean the second optical drive bay is Parallel ATA and not Serial? That would be awesome because I could use my old Plextor 16x DVD burner from my PC.Yes opticals all use PATA busses because they are naturally slow. And yes you can use your Plextor with Toast 7 UB. :)

Multimedia

Aug 8, 2006, 02:48 AM

I was civil the first THREE times I replied. And each time he continued lying to cover up his deficiencies. First it was $99, then $119, then he couldn't point to one place less than $140. Sorry I don't like guys that BS that much.I wan't lying and it wasn't BS. :eek:

You have 3 of them so how was I lying? And I wasn't "covering up" anything sir. You appear to have attack problems.

Evangelion

Aug 8, 2006, 02:51 AM

Some people may not use wireless, this stamps down on prices. As for the graphics card, you have to realize not all professionals need a super-duper chip. Lots of professional apps are more processor intensive then anything.

What is it with these excuses? It's OK so ship sub-par vid-card as standard with their hi-end workstation because not EVERYBODY needs fast vid-card? Hell by that token, maybe they should use Celerons as standard on these machines, since not _everybody_ needs fast CPU's?

They could offer a faster vid-card, and make the crappier vid-card a BTO for those who don't need fast graphics. GF7300 is a low-end GPU. And this is a hi-end machine.

Evangelion

Aug 8, 2006, 02:55 AM

Nice!!! Most likely you made a wise decision to purchase your addional RAM and HD from a third party. Apple requires arms and legs for their optional upgrades. ;)

FB-DIMM RAM is hard to find, and I bet it costs arm and a leg no matter where you buy it from

Multimedia

Aug 8, 2006, 03:00 AM

What is it with these excuses? It's OK so ship sub-par vid-card as standard with their hi-end workstation because not EVERYBODY needs fast vid-card? Hell by that token, maybe they should use Celerons as standard on these machines, since not _everybody_ needs fast CPU's?

They could offer a faster vid-card, and make the crappier vid-card a BTO for those who don't need fast graphics. GF7300 is a low-end GPU. And this is a hi-end machine.Hey calm down. 95% of users don't need anything faster than that base card. Remember they are going to ship the base config to all sorts of dealers who will not be doing BTO. It still supports one 30" as well as a 23/34" Monitor. Lighten up man. Offering the lower end card as regular config is the right thing for Apple to do. I would rather drive 4 screens for an extra $150 than a whole bunch of extra money for cards most don't need and never will need.

Multimedia

Aug 8, 2006, 03:03 AM

FB-DIMM RAM is hard to find, and I bet it costs arm and a leg no matter where you buy it fromNot bad. A Pair of 1GB sticks from Crucial for that motherboard is only $344 (http://www.crucial.com/store/MPartspecs.Asp?mtbpoid=EE744046A5CA7304&WSMD=S5000XVN&WSPN=CT2KIT12872AF667).

All Intel S5000XVN Memory Upgrades (RAM) - This is the Intel Motherboard Apple uses in the Mac Pro.

Crucial Part Number: CT2KIT12872AF667
Module Size: 2GB kit (1GBx2)
Package: 240-pin DIMM
Feature: DDR2 PC2-5300
Specs: DDR2 PC2-5300 • CL=5 • FULLY BUFFERED • ECC • DDR2-667 • 1.8V • 128Meg x 72

Looking forward to what OmniTech can offer them for in a month or so. I would say that $172 per GB is not an arm and a leg. Maybe a pinky finger... But not too dear - especially in light of what a bargain the Mac Pro is in the first place. It's $1200 cheaper than the same DELL. That's more than enough savings to fill it with 6GB more. ;)

Evangelion

Aug 8, 2006, 03:05 AM

There are many of you I want to beat with a spiky stick right now. Let's consolidate you into one bullet-point list of whiners:

Ah, more excuses

1. You are going to spend thousands on a Mac PRO and you are going to pitch a fit over adding wireless for less than 80 bucks? Guess what, these are PROFESSIONAL WORKSTATIONS, not consumer internet computers. The target demographic of these computers is a wired-network setting. Obviously home users and others may have use for wireless in a Mac Pro, so that's why Apple OFFERS IT.

Lets re-phrase that: "Apple is going to ask over two grand for this machine, and for that money I can't get the features that come standard in the bottom of the barrel model?!?! Features that cost about 20 bucks for Apple to implement!?"

2. What applications do you need that a Mac Mini Core Duo can't handle? Oh, games? Why in the sweet baby Jesus' name are you on MACrumors if you're a gamer?

You are saying that I can't (or shouldn't) install Windows on one of these machines for occasional game or two? I could use OS X for just about everything, and then dual-boot to Windows for occasional game or two. Apple is basically telling me that "yes please, give our competitors your money. We are not interested in having it". They are making it very easy for consumer to buy a cheaper Mac and a Windows-PC, instead of just getting a bit more expensive Mac, and dropping the PC entirely.

Which of those scenarion would benefit Apple more?

Leave the grownups alone.

Ah yes, the good 'ol "games are for kids!"-argument....

Evangelion

Aug 8, 2006, 03:14 AM

Hey calm down. 95% of users don't need anything faster than that base card.

And the default-card could be something faster, while the penny-pinchers could have a cheaper BTO-model. Fact is that there are PC's out there that cost maybe half of MacPro, that offer way better vid-cards.

Offering the lower end card as regular config is the right thing for Apple to do. I would rather drive 4 screens for an extra $150 than a whole bunch of extra money for cards most dont' need and never will need.

They could have a better vid-card in there, while keeping the price the way it is. Yes, Apple would have slightly less margins, but not that much. And there would still be an option for cheaper vid-card. 7300 is a low-end card. It really is.

In short: I'm saying that they should offer better vid-card as standard for that amount of money they are asking. You (and others) are basically saying that they shouldn't do that?

I might sound like I hate the new machine. I don't. It's a clear step forward, and I would REALLY like to have one :). But I dislike when we have such a great machine that have few flaws in it. The vid-card flaw would cost a bit for Apple to fix, but it shouldn't be anything major. The wireless-issue is just lame. It can be found in their bottom of the barrel machine (like Mini), yet their uber-machine doesn't have it?

CHROMEDOME

Aug 8, 2006, 03:20 AM

There should be a 7600 in there, that would be a better solution than the 7300 for sure.

Evangelion

Aug 8, 2006, 03:20 AM

Did anyone see the QT stream and find out what did steve actually say. The MRLIVE quotes it as "10:24 am lots more announcements during the next week"

Which one is true? The former seems to hint software announcements during WWDC:eek: while the latter makes me think more hardware announcements in the upcoming weeks:confused:

Since SJ said that when talking about third-party apps being made universal, I bet he meant that there will be more announcements regarding third-party software during the conference. In short: "There are over 3000 univerals applications, with lots more being announced during the conference".

Multimedia

Aug 8, 2006, 03:21 AM

And the default-card could be something faster, while the penny-pinchers could have a cheaper BTO-model. Fact is that there are PC's out there that cost maybe half of MacPro, that offer way better vid-cards.

They could have a better vid-card in there, while keeping the price the way it is. Yes, Apple would have slightly less margins, but not that much. And there would still be an option for cheaper vid-card. 7300 is a low-end card. It really is.

In short: I'm saying that they should offer better vid-card as standard for that amount of money they are asking. You (and others) are basically saying that they shouldn't do that?

I might sound like I hate the new machine. I don't. It's a clear step forward, and I would REALLY like to have one :). But I dislike when we have such a great machine that have few flaws in it. The vid-card flaw would cost a bit for Apple to fix, but it shouldn't be anything major. The wireless-issue is just lame. It can be found in their bottom of the barrel machine (like Mini), yet their uber-machine doesn't have it?I don't know video cards. Are you saying the "NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT 256MB" is a like a $75 list card they are selling multiples of for $150? I only have a "NVIDIA GeForce 6600 256MB" in the Quad G5 and I think it's great. So the 7300 GT has got to be a lot better 'cause it's got a higher number plus a GT on the end of the number doesn't it?

A lot of people don't need Wi-Fi or Bluetooth in their workstation. I don't have it in my Quad G5 and have never missed it. Direct hard wire to internet through a router is faster as well as on the local GB network. I am surprised to learn today that Wi-Fi in the Mac Pro will eat a PCI Express slot. That blows. In the G5's it's got a dedicated Airport slot - or did before PCI Express. I would have to look into if it still has a dedicated slot in the Dual Core and Quad G5's.

I hear you. But I doubt Apple will change their plan.

shompa

Aug 8, 2006, 03:22 AM

Does anyone know if this systems absolutely *REQUIRES* ECC RAM?

ECC is very expensive!

It is FULLY BUFFERED ECC in the MacPro. It is even more expensive.

But it is faster than normal ram, since it have a buffer.

It "feels" like EDO ram, back in time. A memory chip on the memory chip to speed up things.

Found som Crusial Fully buffered ECC. Really really expensive. 300% more than ordinary PC 5400 memory.

Multimedia

Aug 8, 2006, 03:32 AM

It is FULLY BUFFERED ECC in the MacPro. It is even more expensive.

But it is faster than normal ram, since it have a buffer.

It "feels" like EDO ram, back in time. A memory chip on the memory chip to speed up things.

Found som Crusial Fully buffered ECC. Really really expensive. 300% more than ordinary PC 5400 memory.$172 per GB Stick is Too Expensive? That's only a shade more than twice what I paid for PC2-4200 Quad G5 RAM. :p Seems reasonable to me. Why do you think it's too expensive? ;) :D :eek: :confused:

Multimedia

Aug 8, 2006, 03:35 AM

There should be a 7600 in there, that would be a better solution than the 7300 for sure.You video card know-it-alls should be providing links to card web-sites so we can read more about it. You toss model numbers around like everybody knows what the hell you are writing about when almost none of us do.

Evangelion

Aug 8, 2006, 03:39 AM

I still don't understand the people that complain about not having WiFi and Bluetooth standard. This is a Tower. You are not going to be moving it around too much so WiFi is pointless.

With WiFi you can eliminate one more cable. I want as few cables as possible

Also Bluetooth can be had with a $20 USB Adapter if you are going to use it all the time.

USB-dongles hanging from the back? No thanks.

I dare somebody to find any other computer that even has WiFi and or Bluetooth standard.

Mac Mini? the iMac?

Evangelion

Aug 8, 2006, 03:42 AM

I was thinking this myself until I saw it was 4 x 512mb sticks. That just sucks. If it was 2 x 1gb sticks I would say not bad but its not good.

Since the bus is 256bits wide, the RAM needs to be installed four at a time. OK, you COULD install it in pairs, but you would only get 128bit bus then.

Evangelion

Aug 8, 2006, 03:43 AM

$172 per GB Stick is Too Expensive? That's only a shade more than twice what I paid for PC2-4200 Quad G5 RAM. :p Seems reasonable to me. Why do you think it's too expensive? ;) :D :eek: :confused:

You basically need four of those sticks.

artpease

Aug 8, 2006, 03:44 AM

Not bad. A Pair of 1GB sticks from Crucial for that motherboard is only $344 (http://www.crucial.com/store/MPartspecs.Asp?mtbpoid=EE744046A5CA7304&WSMD=S5000XVN&WSPN=CT2KIT12872AF667).

Crucial Part Number: CT2KIT12872AF667
Module Size: 2GB kit (1GBx2)
Package: 240-pin DIMM
Feature: DDR2 PC2-5300
Specs: DDR2 PC2-5300 • CL=5 • FULLY BUFFERED • ECC • DDR2-667 • 1.8V • 128Meg x 72

The above is NOT the official Crucial Mac Pro memory, although it appears to have the same specs.

This is the link to the correct memory.

http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.asp?model=Mac+Pro

You can't find it by searching, I had to call Crucial to get the link.
The part number for the 2x1gb kit is: CT576475 at the same $343.99 price.
You also can't find that part number by searching.

The picture at the top of the page doesn't show a heat sink, so I won't know if they include it until I get it.

Multimedia

Aug 8, 2006, 03:46 AM

Maybe. But last time I checked, Mac Mini and iMac both have wireless built right in, and those are desktops. And there ARE professionals who value clutter-free desktop. There ARE professionals who would like to use the PowerMac with WLAN. You are basically saying that "this is not an issue, since in many cases pro's don't need these features". You might be right, but you would be also wrong since many pro's do want these features!NOT Many at all. A Handfull is a more accurate characterization.You are basically making excuses for a lack of features.

Note: I do love the new MacPro's :). _almost_ everything I could wish for, for lower prices than I expected. And I must say that these fit my predictions almost perfectly. I said that MAcPro's would be all Quads. And I was right. I predicted three models with 2x 2Ghz Woodcrest for $1999, 2x 2.33GHz Woodcrest for $2499 and 2x 3Ghz Woodcrest for $3499. I was almost right. I wished for 4x drive-bays and I got it.I made the same prediction in January. So what. Many of us thought it would be an all Quad line-up. Big deal.

The point is that mini and iMac are TRANSPORTABLE computers that also belong in places where wires don't work. Mac Pros are in fixed work situations that not only do not need wi-fi, in MOST cases they do not WANT Wi-Fi. :eek:

You are what is referred to in the business as an atypical consumer. I am also atypical. My immediate need is for 8 cores. I will have to wait. In your case you simply need to BTO your Wi-Fi Bluetooth parts.

macenforcer

Aug 8, 2006, 03:47 AM

The above is NOT the official Crucial Mac Pro memory, although it appears to have the same specs.

This is the link to the correct memory.

http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.asp?model=Mac+Pro

You can't find it by searching, I had to call Crucial to get the link.
The part number for the 2x1gb kit is: CT576475 at the same $343.99 price.
You also can't find that part number by searching.

The picture at the top of the page doesn't show a heat sink, so I won't know if they include it until I get it.

That makes no sense. It is the SAME exact memory.

Evangelion

Aug 8, 2006, 03:49 AM

You video card know-it-alls should be providing links to card web-sites so we can read more about it. You toss model numbers around like everybody knows what the hell you are writing about when almost none of us do.

Well, since you care anough about computers to hang around in web-forums dedicated to computers, I for one assumed that you have at least basic knowledge regarding current computer-hardware. Anyway, Google is your friend.

daneoni

Aug 8, 2006, 03:51 AM

macenforcer

Aug 8, 2006, 03:53 AM

Evangelion

Aug 8, 2006, 03:55 AM

NOT Many at all. A Handfull is a more accurate characterization.

I'm sorry, I forgot that you had that survey which told exactly what every single PowerMac-user wants from their computer :rolleyes:.

Again: You are saying that "Not EVERYBODY needs this feature, therefore not having it is OK

I made the same prediction in January. So what. Many of us thought it would be an all Quad line-up. Big deal.

Well EXCUUUUUSE me!

The point is that mini and iMac are TRANSPORTABLE computers that also belong in places where wires don't work. Mac Pros are in fixed work situations that not only do not need wi-fi,

Let me quote Steve Jobs (from memory):

"And let me point out that we are still the only company that puts handles on their computers. We know that our pro users like to move these machines around, so we built handles on the case"

Said during the introduction of the G5 PowerMac. So what were you saying again? And I don't see Apple advertising Mac Mini or iMac as "transportable" machines. Yes you can move them around (naturally), but that is not a major selling-point for them.

in MOST cases they do not WANT Wi-Fi. :eek:

Well, it CAN be switched off, right?

Multimedia

Aug 8, 2006, 04:04 AM

Well, since you care anough about computers to hang around in web-forums dedicated to computers, I for one assumed that you have at least basic knowledge regarding current computer-hardware. Anyway, Google is your friend.I am not a gamer and I don't do 3-D. So I go with the Base Apple tells me to go with and that's the end of it. Back in the day when I was trying to goose my Cube 500 - as in .5 GHz G4, I cared. I don't care any more cause they all seem more powerful than I will ever use.

artpease

Aug 8, 2006, 04:06 AM

That makes no sense. It is the SAME exact memory.
Crucial sent me the link and the part number page says:
2GB kit (1GBx2), 240-pin DIMM, DDR2 PC2-5300 Upgrade for the Apple Mac Pro Desktop Computer,
which was the clincher for me.

macenforcer

Aug 8, 2006, 04:09 AM

Crucial sent me the link and the part number page says:
2GB kit (1GBx2), 240-pin DIMM, DDR2 PC2-5300 Upgrade for the Apple Mac Pro Desktop Computer,
which was the clincher for me.

Yeah, I don't doubt its the right memory, I just think its the same memory as the link before. LOL. I just pressed submit order on the other link for the 2 x 1gb dimms then you posted that. I was like OH MAN! I emailed crucial. Will find out if I got the right one.

Multimedia

Aug 8, 2006, 04:21 AM

So whats the consensus, will we all be buying this MacPro revision at some point?. The Woodcrest chips seem to have a long cycle ahead of them meaning these should be around for a while.

Does anyone still have a link to the intel roadmap?Yeah when it goes 8 core and Leopard is on-board, I'll snatch a refurb from the SAVE page.

Intel Core Microarchitecture Roadmap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_Microarchitecture). Found it with Google in about 2 seconds. Did you know that Google is your friend? Some here like to say so without providing links. I on the other hand like to say so with the link you want.

Multimedia

Aug 8, 2006, 04:25 AM

Yeah, I don't doubt its the right memory, I just think its the same memory as the link before. LOL. I just pressed submit order on the other link for the 2 x 1gb dimms then you posted that. I was like OH MAN! I emailed crucial. Will find out if I got the right one.You did. But you might want to ask them about Apple's pitch that their RAM runs quieter than third party ram.

From the "Learn More..." drop down pane on the config page:

"Please note: Apple created a more robust thermal specification for the Mac Pro FB-DIMM heat sinks that provide more efficient cooling than many other FB-DIMMs. These FB-DIMMs require less airflow to stay cool and allow the internal fans to spin at slower speeds, improving system acoustics. FB-DIMMs made by other manufacturers that do not include a sufficient heat sink may cause the fans to run faster (and louder) or the memory chips to run slower so as not to overheat." :confused:

mkjj

Aug 8, 2006, 04:28 AM

Just for fun, a mega spec MacPro. I'll take two!

So at today's exchange rate that will be $15,832.84

macenforcer

Aug 8, 2006, 04:29 AM

You did. But you might want to ask them about Apple pitch that their RAM runs quieter than third party ram.

From the "Learn More..." drop down pane on the config page"

"Please note: Apple created a more robust thermal specification for the Mac Pro FB-DIMM heat sinks that provide more efficient cooling than many other FB-DIMMs. These FB-DIMMs require less airflow to stay cool and allow the internal fans to spin at slower speeds, improving system acoustics. FB-DIMMs made by other manufacturers that do not include a sufficient heat sink may cause the fans to run faster (and louder) or the memory chips to run slower so as not to overheat." :confused:

I would bet the crucial ram does not come with that big heatsink seen on the apple ram but thats nothing that something that some vga heatsinks won't cure. Just stick em on. I actually have a set sitting here. OR it could just be a marketing ploy. :eek:

daneoni

Aug 8, 2006, 04:56 AM

Yeah when it goes 8 core and Leopard is on-board, I'll snatch a refurb from the SAVE page.

Intel Core Microarchitecture Roadmap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_Microarchitecture). Found it with Google in about 2 seconds. Did you know that Google is your friend? Some here like to say so without providing links. I on the other hand like to say so with the link you want.

Thanx

JRM PowerPod

Aug 8, 2006, 05:05 AM

Just for fun, a mega spec MacPro. I'll take two!

So at today's exchange rate that will be $15,832.84

Hopefully you won't delay my order, i just ordered 3 of that exact same spec. what a coincidence

Multimedia

Aug 8, 2006, 05:53 AM

I would bet the crucial ram does not come with that big heatsink seen on the apple ram but thats nothing that something that some vga heatsinks won't cure. Just stick em on. I actually have a set sitting here. OR it could just be a marketing ploy. :eek:Please Explain VGA Heatsinks And Where We Get Them From Who For How Much Money? Yes it looks like a ploy to me. But just enough information to scare :eek: and confuse :confused: me. :p

vendettabass

Aug 8, 2006, 06:01 AM

Hopefully you won't delay my order, i just ordered 3 of that exact same spec. what a coincidence

whoah! three! what you gonna do with all that power!

Greenjeens

Aug 8, 2006, 06:08 AM

JRM PowerPod

Aug 8, 2006, 06:17 AM

whoah! three! what you gonna do with all that power!

I don't know yet, it was kind of an impulse buy:D

glassbathroom

Aug 8, 2006, 06:27 AM

Did everyone notice that they have priced the 2.66 GHz such that it makes no sense to buy 2GHz and 3GHz models? 2GHz is too little less and 3GHz is too much more. Crazy. Apple must have gotten an amazing price on the 2.66GHz Woodcrest.

Thanks for your posts Multimedia.

Last night I ordered a 3.0Ghz Mac Pro. Cancelled it this morning and ordered the 2.66GHz version. You always seem to have to pay disproportionally more for the top level. Financially it makes more sense to by the base model. Inside, I hate the idea that I am not getting the faster one, but the £500 or$800 difference is just too much!

daneoni

Aug 8, 2006, 07:00 AM

Thanks for your posts Multimedia.

Last night I ordered a 3.0Ghz Mac Pro. Cancelled it this morning and ordered the 2.66GHz version. You always seem to have to pay disproportionally more for the top level. Financially it makes more sense to by the base model. Inside, I hate the idea that I am not getting the faster one, but the £500 or$800 difference is just too much!

I guess when the prices come down you could buy the 3.0GHz chip and do a self upgrade assuming the new processors are socket based

cube

Aug 8, 2006, 08:00 AM

I would be happy even with less PCIs.

I think 1 full, thick x16 and 1 full x1 would be enough for me (I don't want less)
It would be good to offer Kentsfield, but I imagine it and Allendale would be ripoffs
compared to a Conroe configuration, like it happens with these Xeon speeds.

greenstork

Aug 8, 2006, 08:26 AM

macenforcer

Aug 8, 2006, 08:45 AM

jjd

Aug 8, 2006, 08:48 AM

My 2 cents: these seem like awesome machines, beautifully architected and fairly well priced all things considered (ignoring silly things like having to pay for wi-fi, Bluetooth). Superb machines for professionals. But, is there not a sizeable prosumer market out there too? I would put myself in that category, my needs/ uses being as follows:

Office type apps
Browsing
Webs site management
Music
Photo editing and management - personal only, using PS
Video editing and DVD authoring - personal only, using FC Express
Dual monitors (important)

Clearly the MacPro will (more than) comfortably manage all that - but at a price and form factor that really is overkill. I will order one, but I would much rather a mini-tower (cube sized) box with a decent video card with Dual monitor support, 1x HDD, dual core chips, 1 x Superdrive, 2gb RAM. Am I the only one?

Bring back Franklin!

glassbathroom

Aug 8, 2006, 08:58 AM

Does anyone know if the Mac Pros take the standard Airport Extreme Cards. I can't find details anywhere.

Including Airport as an option adds 3 weeks to your order time, so I am guessing it might not be the same.

Eidorian

Aug 8, 2006, 08:59 AM

ezekielrage_99

Aug 8, 2006, 09:03 AM

REPEAT AFTER ME: NOT EVERYONE NEEDS A VIDEO CARD WITH 512RAM. NOT EVERYONE IS PLAYING DOOM.

Seriously, a lot of these WORKSTATIONS will never use apps that require more than that video card. Many will be headless. Why put a $350 video card in there?..

It's called CHOICE.

It's not the fact that I want the best video card to play games with but I thought Apple would at least put an ATi X600 or the newer ATi X1600 as standard because of the iMac lines. I'd actually be very happy with an ATi X600 with 256MB in the Mac Pro instead of the nVidia GeForce 7300GT.

The other thing I have noticed (and I'm am sorry if I am repeating anything voiced before) but why doesn't the Mac Pro come with the Apple remote?

glassbathroom

Aug 8, 2006, 09:03 AM

No, it doesn't. It takes a special PCI Express x1 card.

Thanks Eidorian,

Super fast reply!!!

Do you know any details about cost etc on these? Is there anything on the website about this or have you asked someone at WWDC?

Eidorian

Aug 8, 2006, 09:09 AM

Thanks Eidorian,

Super fast reply!!!

Do you know any details about cost etc on these? Is there anything on the website about this or have you asked someone at WWDC?It looks like you're going to have to go to an Apple Store or get an AASP to order and install it.

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/HardwareDrivers/Conceptual/Mac_Pro_0608/index.html

Mac Pro Computers (August 2006)
The Mac Pro computers announced in August 2006, based on the Dual-Core Intel Xeon processor, have an optional, internal AirPort Extreme wireless LAN module. The AirPort Extreme module connects through a one-lane PCI Express bus to the South Bridge IC. The Mac Pro has built-in antennas. AirPort Extreme is available as a fully-integrated configure-to-order option or as an Apple Authorized Service Provider kit, which can be installed by an Apple retail store or an Apple Authorized Service Provider.

Note: The Mac Pro contains 802.11b, 802.11g, and 802.11a radios; however, Apple supports only 802.11b and 802.11g.

Mac Pro Computers (August 2006)
The Mac Pro computers announced in August 2006, based on the Dual-Core Intel Xeon processor, provide support for an optional, internal Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR (enhanced data rate) through a port on the USB 2.0 controller. Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR is available as a fully-integrated configure-to-order option or as an Apple Authorized Service Provider kit, which can be installed by an Apple retail store or an Apple Authorized Service Provider. Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR has an external antenna.

Jbook

Aug 8, 2006, 09:13 AM

Where Is Frontrow??????

glassbathroom

Aug 8, 2006, 09:20 AM

It looks like you're going to have to go to an Apple Store or get an AASP to order and install it.

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/HardwareDrivers/Conceptual/Mac_Pro_0608/index.html

Thanks again, Eidorian. Cancelled my order (again). I will get it pre-installed. I think you saved me a lot of hassle later!

aiongiant

Aug 8, 2006, 09:37 AM

anyone know if this is possible

order the normal dual 3ghz config with the 7300 vid card
but i want to install bootcamp in this system..
Can i use the Nvidia 7300 vid card for OSX but let say bootcamp to windows with a Nvidia 7950GX2?
so i'll have 2 vid cards in the system since it's up to 4 hehe

Man can't wait to order this system! althought i play alot of games.. so i kinda want the faster graphics chip..

JoshRtek

Aug 8, 2006, 09:39 AM

It looks like you're going to have to go to an Apple Store or get an AASP to order and install it.

I called the Apple Store online and they told me there would definitely be a kit available at the Apple store.

Eidorian

Aug 8, 2006, 09:44 AM

I called the Apple Store online and they told me there would definitely be a kit available at the Apple store.I might just have to do that myself.

Alenate

Aug 8, 2006, 09:51 AM

ezekielrage_99

Aug 8, 2006, 09:57 AM

Will the next round of MacPro's have the Kentfield or Clovertown chip? I can't seem to get a straight answer on this.

Also, why would it be worth the wait? Are these chips expected to be cheaper?

Just curious.

Thanks.

I think it's way too early to speculate what install for the Mac Pro considering the fact that no consumer will get them before September. Still I doubt if Apple will drop any prices.

JoshRtek

Aug 8, 2006, 10:01 AM

I might just have to do that myself.

However, from the sound of things, it seemed that the kit is not available yet. I would give three two to three weeks for it to appear on the shelves at your local Apple store.

I need the Mac ASAP as I sold my PC...and I need some of parts inside before I hand it over. I've also got to get all my data off the PC before it goes away, which would be well before the Mac Pro would've arrived.

However, would this work?:

Can I plug the Mac Pro into my Airport Express to get internet while I wait for the kit to become available?

Eidorian

Aug 8, 2006, 10:08 AM

However, from the sound of things, it seemed that the kit is not available yet. I would give three two to three weeks for it to appear on the shelves at your local Apple store.

I need the Mac ASAP as I sold my PC...and I need some of parts inside before I hand it over. I've also got to get all my data off the PC before it goes away, which would be well before the Mac Pro would've arrived.

However, would this work?:

Can I plug the Mac Pro into my Airport Express to get internet while I wait for the kit to become available?I meant that I'll buy a stock Mac Pro instead of ordering it online. I can take it back to the store later for AirPort/Bluetooth. I need my computer ASAP as well. Seeing as I'm not using my own. :D

You're not going to be able to use the AirPort Express until you have wireless.

JoshRtek

Aug 8, 2006, 10:14 AM

You're not going to be able to use the AirPort Express until you have wireless.

Wait, can't I just plug an ethernet cable from the Mac Pro to the port on the Airport Express? I have it in the computer room because the Airport Extreme in the living room is too far away and the signal gets weak...

MacBoobsPro

Aug 8, 2006, 10:14 AM

shelterpaw

Aug 8, 2006, 10:30 AM

If they were once $99, they will be $99 again. OK. I didn't mean NOW. I meant within a few weeks or a month or two. Excuse me for having a different opinion than you and for not being clear enough to avoid your need to criticise someone who puts something differently than you would.
About once a month Fry's sells the Seagate SATA II 3.0 300GB drives for $99.00. August 4th they had 400GB SATA 300 drive for $139.99. Right now they have a 10GB Ultra DMA 100 drive for $14.99, don't everyone run over there at once. :p You can go here to see their newspaper adv: http://newspaperads.mercurynews.com/ROP/ads.aspx?adid=3334374&advid=32664&type=

shelterpaw

Aug 8, 2006, 10:35 AM

Please Explain VGA Heatsinks And Where We Get Them From Who For How Much Money? Yes it looks like a ploy to me. But just enough information to scare :eek: and confuse :confused: me. :p Newegg and a slew of otheres have RAM heatsinks for sale. Some look just like Apple's heatsinks. http://www.casecooler.com/vico.html

You can also get passive heatsinks for your video card. I put one on video card in my PC. It's tricky and not for the faint at heart, if you screw up, you're screwed. But it helps keep the noise down and the card cool.

:cool:

JoshRtek

Aug 8, 2006, 10:41 AM

Right now they have a 10GB Ultra DMA 100 drive for $14.99

If you had the right enclosure...a crap-load of these you could RAID 0 together, but then again...what am I talking about, 10 gigs is small potatoes.

gnasher729

Aug 8, 2006, 10:43 AM

Will the next round of MacPro's have the Kentfield or Clovertown chip? I can't seem to get a straight answer on this.

Also, why would it be worth the wait? Are these chips expected to be cheaper?

Conroe (two core) and Kentfield (four core) are sold as "desktop" chips, Woodcrest (two core) and Cloverton (four core) are sold as "server" chips. Obviously Apple doesn't care whether Intel calls them "desktop" or "server" chips, they do what they think is best for the customer.

The main difference is that you can have only one Conroe or Kentfield chip, but two Woodcrest or Cloverton chips. There is quite a difference in the design of a motherboard for Conroe/Kentfield and for Woodcrest/Cloverton. So using Kentfield would mean a very substantial redesign, and you still wouldn't get more than four cores. Using Cloverton for an eight core machine would be much easier. If all the Mac Pros were shipping with Conroe chips, then it would be the other way round.

The first generation of four core chips will be just two dual core chips in one package, so I doubt they will be much cheaper than two separate dual core chips. You can expect eight core machines at some point in the future, but don't expect machines with a single Cloverton that are much cheaper than the quad core machines today.

wildmac

Aug 8, 2006, 10:48 AM

With WiFi you can eliminate one more cable. I want as few cables as possible

And you get the limitations of WiFi as well. IF your cable/DSL modem is downstairs or something like that, fine, but otherwise why would you not hook up directly to router and get faster speeds than WiFi?.. Especially if your router is Gigabit?...

Eidorian

Aug 8, 2006, 10:52 AM

About once a month Fry's sells the Seagate SATA II 3.0 300GB drives for $99.00. August 4th they had 400GB SATA 300 drive for $139.99. Right now they have a 10GB Ultra DMA 100 drive for $14.99, don't everyone run over there at once. :p You can go here to see their newspaper adv: http://newspaperads.mercurynews.com/ROP/ads.aspx?adid=3334374&advid=32664&type=I don't get why Fry's is dumping those puny drives. I have tons of 10 GB drives just laying around my office shelves. They're bound to be good for something. Even a 40 GB SCSI drive from 1998. It's huge! :eek:

carlos700

Aug 8, 2006, 11:04 AM

I'd actually be very happy with an ATi X600 with 256MB in the Mac Pro instead of the nVidia GeForce 7300GT.

I don't know why. GeForce 7300 GT is faster than the X600. Look at PC benchmarks, it also outperforms the GeForce 6600 GT. The X600 is a 4 Pixel Pipeline design, the 7300 GT has 8 Pixel Pipelines. It's not a bad card.

bense27

Aug 8, 2006, 11:05 AM

did anybody here buy one yet?

gnasher729

Aug 8, 2006, 11:15 AM

I just went to the Dell UK webpage and checked what a top-of-the-range machine would cost: Dell Precision 390 Workstation with one dual-core Conroe chip at 2.93 GHz, 4 x 500 GB harddisks, one 1GBit ethernet, 8 GB of RAM costs £11355 including tax, without shipping. There is no quad core (at least I couldn't find it).

Mac Pro, with TWO dual-core Woodcrest chips at 3.0 GHz each, 4 x 500 GB harddisks, two 1GBit ethernet, 8 GB of RAM, four Firewire ports, costs £4859, including tax, including shipping.

That is less than half the price. What a ripoff!

(We don't need to compare Windows and MacOS X here, because you can buy a copy of Windows and install it on the Mac if you feel like it. It is still less than half the price.)

macenforcer

Aug 8, 2006, 11:17 AM

aiongiant

Aug 8, 2006, 11:19 AM

Erm... thats kind of stupid! Why dont you just pay for the expensive card and use it on both OS's?

Why pay extra for a crappier card just to run OSX? :confused:

well i wasn't sure that OSX will support the Nvidia 7950GX2 since it's a PC graphics card...

so by this you mean the Mac Pro will take the Nvidia 7950GX2 for OSX and Windows??

daneoni

Aug 8, 2006, 11:32 AM

did anybody here buy one yet?

Yeah some guy said he ordered a stock model with the X1900 card a few posts back

Weaselboy

Aug 8, 2006, 11:38 AM

I would bet the crucial ram does not come with that big heatsink seen on the apple ram but thats nothing that something that some vga heatsinks won't cure. Just stick em on. I actually have a set sitting here. OR it could just be a marketing ploy. :eek:

This (http://www.powermax.com/articles_reviews/article.php?id=32) page has some photos of the ram heatsinks. Does not look like any of the aftermarket ram comes with the heat sink, so for the extra $100 I am okay with the Apple installed memory just not to worry about this heatsink issue.

I can see where one may be more inclined to experiment with this if you are adding more than the extra one gig I am. The aftermarket savings could really add up with a eight gig or so upgrade.

macenforcer

Aug 8, 2006, 11:41 AM

This (http://www.powermax.com/articles_reviews/article.php?id=32) page has some photos of the ram heatsinks. Does not look like any of the aftermarket ram comes with the heat sink, so for the extra $100 I am okay with the Apple installed memory just not to worry about this heatsink issue.

I can see where one may be more inclined to experiment with this if you are adding more than the extra one gig I am. The aftermarket savings could really add up with a eight gig or so upgrade.

The ram will be fine with whatever it comes with from crucial. There is a big fan blowing on them. I wouldn't worry about it.

glassbathroom

Aug 8, 2006, 11:43 AM

did anybody here buy one yet?

Yes, see below. Estimated ship date 5th September.

Eidorian

Aug 8, 2006, 11:50 AM

Yes, see below. Estimated ship date 5th September.Are they in stores? I might get one tomorrow. I think someone will buy my free iPod Nano. :D

shelterpaw

Aug 8, 2006, 12:02 PM

I've read some reports that the CPU's may be swappable, but judging by the price on newegg, I think that wont be happening for quite some time. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?N=50001157+2010340343+1050706986+1050922423&Submit=ENE&Subcategory=343

View Pic

* Intel Xeon 5160 Woodcrest 1333MHz FSB Socket 771 Processor Model HH80556KJ0804M - OEM
64 bit Support: Yes
Hyper-Threading Support: No
L1 Cache: 32KB+32KB
L2 Cache: 2 x 2MB
Multi-Core: Dual-Core
Operating Frequency: 3.0GHz
Process Type: 65 nm
Series: Xeon
Virtualization Technology Support: Yes
Vista Ready: Yes
* Model #: HH80556KJ0804M
* Item #: N82E16819117100
* Out Of Stock
* $4.99 Three Day Shipping
* Move item to Wish ListMove To Wish List
* $916.99
so two of these will cost you a mere 1833.98.

Multimedia

Aug 8, 2006, 12:04 PM

I've been itching for a new Tower for a year. My trusty G4 is running very slow and acting goofy...so I ordered a 2.6 tonight, thinking I could not get it. It popped up, ready to go. $3,100 US. I'm going to have to think about this purchase for a bit.

It's very helpful to read others configurations stratagies, as well as the hunt to get cheaper parts and figure out what the upgrades do.

Like any new release, it's going to take time fort he parts suppliers to get geared up to serving the Quads. Nothing like contemplating spending $3k to help slow down the thought process. Time to read reports from the brave group of beta testers, to become better informed.

I like the idea that unless one has a special need, just go with stock, it will probably run faster on everything than I ever need!

And we all know in about a week in a half there will be a brand new crop of BUG reports! There _always_ is.
Such a short honeymoon for some...

I'm guessing a few minor component heat problems.

Think I'll wait for those reports, now that the Quads are finally here, I can take my time. If my G4 breaks, then I'll hurry.Greenjeens' 7 Year Itch

Going from a 400MHz G4 - That is the original 1999 G4, I think, to the base 2.66 Quad Mac Pro is going to freaking blow your mind. Base Minus the 250 to 160 perhaps plus Bluetooth is going to be the way to go IM not so HO.

Remember, you are going to have to pay $688 for FOUR 1GB RAM Sticks. Or at least $344 for two. And 250-SATA/300 HDs cost around $60-$70 now. So dumbing down the base HD is like getting a 160 GB drive FREE.

Hope you are able to screw up the courage to pull the trigger sooner than later. You are definitely running on extremely slow borrowed time - lots of borrowed time that you will be able to save as soon as you take the plunge to Mac Pro. :eek: :)

Rad

Aug 8, 2006, 12:14 PM

shelterpaw

Aug 8, 2006, 12:21 PM

Can anyone verify what version of Windows is need to run Bootcamp - or even Parallels? Xeon is 64 bit. Do I need to get Windows XP Pro 64? Of course I just bought a full version of trhe 32-bt XP in anticiaption of my Mac Pro order!:confused:
It looks that way according to 3DProfessor: http://www.3dprofessor.com/review.asp?id=201

Google is your friend.

JoshRtek

Aug 8, 2006, 12:22 PM

Yes, see below. Estimated ship date 5th September.

Mine's supposed to ship on August 21st...:D

Multimedia

Aug 8, 2006, 12:22 PM

Newegg and a slew of otheres have RAM heatsinks for sale. Some look just like Apple's heatsinks.

RAM Cooling Heatsinks For Sale at CaseCooler.com (http://www.casecooler.com/vico.html)

You can also get passive heatsinks for your video card. I put one on video card in my PC. It's tricky and not for the faint at heart, if you screw up, you're screwed. But it helps keep the noise down and the card cool. :cool:So which one should we buy? Give us a recommendation since you are the expert. I have no idea which one looks just like Apple's. Please help us know what to do.

I really hate NOISE. The G5 Quad is DEAD SILENT. I mean like my Cubes. Like BLOWS YOUR MIND SILENT. :eek: I FEAR :eek: more noise like the Pre-Quad G5s made. They were GOD AWFUL Noisy. :eek: This is a very big deal to me.

BTW does anyone know if the base GeForce 7300 GT video card is heatsink only or does it have a fan on it?

Eidorian

Aug 8, 2006, 12:26 PM

It looks that way according to 3DProfessor: http://www.3dprofessor.com/review.asp?id=201

Google is your friend.I see 32-bit XP tests.

shelterpaw

Aug 8, 2006, 12:26 PM

So which one should we buy? Give us a recommendation since you are the expert. I have no idea which one looks just like Apple's. Please help us know what to do.

I really hate NOISE. The G5 Quad is DEAD SILENT. I mean like my Cubes. Like BLOWS YOUR MIND SILENT. :eek: I FEAR :eek: more noise like the Pre-Quad G5s made. They were GOD AWFUL Noisy. :eek: This is a very big deal to me.

BTW does anyone know if the base GeForce 7300 GT video card is heatsink only or does it have a fan on it?
I'm not an expert on it, and made no such claims, but I have used various passive heatsinks on my PC. I have no experience with the DDR2 modules. However, I think if you want to get the most bang for you buck, go with copper heatsinks.

Google search for reviews on various products. You'll find what you're looking for. You may also want to contact the manufacturer of the RAM you're buying and see what they recommend.

macenforcer

Aug 8, 2006, 12:26 PM

gugy

Aug 8, 2006, 12:28 PM

About once a month Fry's sells the Seagate SATA II 3.0 300GB drives for $99.00. August 4th they had 400GB SATA 300 drive for $139.99. Right now they have a 10GB Ultra DMA 100 drive for $14.99, don't everyone run over there at once. :p You can go here to see their newspaper adv: http://newspaperads.mercurynews.com/ROP/ads.aspx?adid=3334374&advid=32664&type=

It's true, I have been buying them. The ultra ATA goes for $89 and you buy a RAID case(OWC $129) put 2 drives and get a 600gb RAID for less than $300. It seems a good deal to me.
There are cheaper cases out there too

cusqueno

Aug 8, 2006, 12:38 PM

You video card know-it-alls should be providing links to card web-sites so we can read more about it. You toss model numbers around like everybody knows what the hell you are writing about when almost none of us do.

Here's a review from TechSpot comparing the 7300GT and X1600Pro which should give a general idea of the performance you can expect:

http://www.techspot.com/review/7-nvidia_geforce_7300gt_vs_ati_radeon_x1600pro/page2.html

Eidorian

Aug 8, 2006, 12:47 PM

Here's a review from TechSpot comparing the 7300GT and X1600Pro which should give a general idea of the performance you can expect:

http://www.techspot.com/review/7-nvidia_geforce_7300gt_vs_ati_radeon_x1600pro/page2.htmlI'd like to know the clock speeds on the 7300GT we're getting in the Mac Pro. It looks like the overclocked it in those tests. So it's quite competitive for its price but not against the X1600 Pro.

ShnikeJSB

Aug 8, 2006, 01:24 PM

Greenjeens' 7 Year Itch

Going from a 400MHz G4 - That is the original 1999 G4, I think, to the base 2.66 Quad Mac Pro is going to freaking blow your mind. Base Minus the 250 to 160 perhaps plus Bluetooth is going to be the way to go IM not so HO.

Remember, you are going to have to pay $688 for FOUR 1GB RAM Sticks. Or at least $344 for two. And 250-SATA/300 HDs cost around $60-$70 now. So dumbing down the base HD is like getting a 160 GB drive FREE.

Hope you are able to screw up the courage to pull the trigger sooner than later. You are definitely running on extremely slow borrowed time - lots of borrowed time that you will be able to save as soon as you take the plunge to Mac Pro. :eek: :)

I've got you ALL beat! My parents are STILL using their Beige G3/333 from October '98!!! They expect a computer to last them AT LEAST 7 years... So sad... And now they don't want to spend more than $2000 on a system... I try and try to explain to them they need to spring twice that for a Mac that will last 7 years, but they won't listen!

Actually, if it weren't for OS9 and all the crashing that comptuer does, it's still pretty speedy for such an old computer...

(PS - You can get a 7600GT for $150, and a 7900GT for $250 -- so WHY are we straddled with a $75 7300GT POS in a $2500+ and more likely $3500+ computer??? Ridiculous...)

Dr.Gargoyle

Aug 8, 2006, 01:27 PM

But if something goes wrong with your MacPro you`d have to send it back to USA to use applecare. Howzzat for a saving:p :p
Last time I talked to the Apple store they claimed that the warranty for desktops nowdays is worldwide and not country specific. A year ago only laptops and iPods had a worldwide guarantee. Still, I haven't double checked this info.
Moreover, since I fly back and forth to US at least 6 times per year, it wouldn't cost me anything more than a lot of hassle if anything happened to the MP.

BUT then again, in Sweden they have a special offer (ends Oct 7th) that more or less gives you an iPod for free if you buy a MP, so I guess it wont be worth the trouble to buy it in US.

fred123

Aug 8, 2006, 01:29 PM

I have a old dual 2.7 G5 that sounds like an airplane revving up when only a few applications are going. Should this unit be more quiet or are there any specifications where I can see how it relates to other machines.

boncellis

Aug 8, 2006, 01:34 PM

Not really significantly faster than the G5 Quad. Maybe 50% faster at best. As owner of a Quad G5 my motivation would be more about the 6 bays and the FW 800 and extra USB 2 port on the front than the speed. :) Not worth the extra money to go 3GHz - 33% more money for 12% more speed doesn't make economic sense. Need 8 cores inside.

They really surprised me by going quad across the line. I admit, I didn't see that coming at all.

The most intriguing thing about WWDC to me was the statement that new things will be coming out relatively soon. With the Mac Pro all Woodcrest, it's just a matter of time before a Conroe machine comes out--at least I would assume. I suppose Apple could forego Conroe altogether and put Merom in the iMac, but I doubt it.

Now the question becomes--what's next?

shelterpaw

Aug 8, 2006, 01:36 PM

I've got you ALL beat! My parents are STILL using their Beige G3/333 from October '98!!! They expect a computer to last them AT LEAST 7 years... So sad... And now they don't want to spend more than $2000 on a system... I try and try to explain to them they need to spring twice that for a Mac that will last 7 years, but they won't listen!

Actually, if it weren't for OS9 and all the crashing that comptuer does, it's still pretty speedy for such an old computer...

(PS - You can get a 7600GT for $150, and a 7900GT for $250 -- so WHY are we straddled with a $75 7300GT POS in a $2500+ and more likely $3500+ computer??? Ridiculous...) I'd put my parents on an iMac. I'm sure it will last them 7 years. I imagine your parents would be stoked with it. Sound s to me like you're trying to sell them what you want instead of what might be the best computer for them. ;)

ShnikeJSB

Aug 8, 2006, 01:50 PM

I'd put my parents on an iMac. I'm sure it will last them 7 years. I imagine your parents would be stoked with it. Sound s to me like you're trying to sell them what you want instead of what might be the best computer for them. ;)

Kind of, yeah... LOL! But also, we expanded the old one to its limits long ago, and you can't really "expand" an iMac. They want something expandable and more futureproof. I can see a Blue-Ray drive swap and such in my head... ;)

shelterpaw

Aug 8, 2006, 02:01 PM

Kind of, yeah... LOL! But also, we expanded the old one to its limits long ago, and you can't really "expand" an iMac. They want something expandable and more futureproof. I can see a Blue-Ray drive swap and such in my head... ;) You can always get an external Blue-Ray drive, but I don't think you'll see a need for it for 3 or 4 years. There's relatively no media for it. You can put a good amount of RAM in the iMac and the processor is upgradable, but I personally wouldn't mess with it.

For backups you might be well served using an external harddrive or perhaps turn your Blue and White into a backup server on a network.

What addons do you see beyond Blue-Ray?

JAT

Aug 8, 2006, 02:05 PM

Let me quote Steve Jobs (from memory):

"And let me point out that we are still the only company that puts handles on their computers. We know that our pro users like to move these machines around, so we built handles on the case"

Yeah, I'm going to sell my wife's Macbook since the MacPro is out, there just isn't any point to these worthless "portable" computers when you can have a tower that has HANDLES! :rolleyes:

Your wish is a BTO option. Don't forget it, and you'll be fine.

ShnikeJSB

Aug 8, 2006, 02:12 PM

You can always get an external Blue-Ray drive, but I don't think you'll see a need for it for 3 or 4 years. There's relatively no media for it. You can put a good amount of RAM in the iMac and the processor is upgradable, but I personally wouldn't mess with it.

For backups you might be well served using an external harddrive or perhaps turn your Blue and White into a backup server on a network.

What addons do you see beyond Blue-Ray?

Well, considering they want it to last like 7 years -- I'm guessing something like the 1 GB/s Wireless USB in 2010, future wireless standards, maybe a TV tuner card, hell I dunno -- a wireless robot that cleans your office that only an add-in card can support...

All this "external" stuff gets cluttered and more expensive.

shelterpaw

Aug 8, 2006, 02:26 PM

Well, considering they want it to last like 7 years -- I'm guessing something like the 1 GB/s Wireless USB in 2010, future wireless standards, maybe a TV tuner card, hell I dunno -- a wireless robot that cleans your office that only an add-in card can support...

All this "external" stuff gets cluttered and more expensive.
Well I'm rooting for you, but if you can't convince me, how are you going to convince them?

daneoni

Aug 8, 2006, 02:44 PM

it seems we're still stuck with the Brushed Metal UI and the same type of Finder in Leopard. Hopefully this isn't true and is part of the Top Secret features that weren't disclosed.

Leopard seems nice overall though and looks like it'll scream on the MacPros (and future 64 bit systems). Time Machine seems noice although i dont really see myself using it, so does Spaces. I see myself using the realtime widgets though. Steve definately looked ill (skinny and somewhat disheveled), hopefully he's alright. I guess steve is slowly on his way out.

shompa

Aug 8, 2006, 03:19 PM

Yeah this is definitely Apple's Power Move into high end PC sales. Anyone who wants a Quad Core PC is going to want to buy a Mac Pro no matter how much they hate OS X and love XP. The $1200-$1300 saved will buy 6GB of more ram and a copy of XP Pro. :p

The gloves are off. This is WAR.

Apple is now really STICKING IT to DELL and HP Big Time.

If Dell/HP has SLI or Crossfire, then Apple NEED to be 1000 dollar cheaper.

Why not even DRIVERS for the Nvidia 7950 card? I have 4 processors, let me use at least dual graphics.

shompa

Aug 8, 2006, 03:23 PM

Since the bus is 256bits wide, the RAM needs to be installed four at a time. OK, you COULD install it in pairs, but you would only get 128bit bus then.

AMEN!

Read the article on Tomshardware about Xeons.

You need 4 FB-Dimms to get the full bandwith.

You otherwise cripple the system.

The same misstake that many people does with Macbook pros with just one DIMM.

Bring back the G4s. Only needed one DIMM, and a whooping 133mhz!

neilg

Aug 8, 2006, 03:25 PM

I guess steve is slowly on his way out.

Dude, we're ALL slowly on our way out...

;)

Grokgod

Aug 8, 2006, 03:37 PM

Yea, thats right about the pairs of ram for the new MacPro's.

Thats why I got the 4X512 from Apple with my new system.

Multimedia said it was a bad idea but I dont agree!

Also i realize that this may be perceived as a flame BUT i dont like your Avatar, Multimedia!:rolleyes:

For a Multimedia guy, you should have an animated one and not a face that looks like a uhh PC reviewer like Dvorkian ,or whatever he is called.

Is that your real face?

Ok, I apologize but thats my feelings.

dante@sisna.com

Aug 8, 2006, 03:58 PM

I don't know video cards. Are you saying the "NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT 256MB" is a like a $75 list card they are selling multiples of for $150? I only have a "NVIDIA GeForce 6600 256MB" in the Quad G5 and I think it's great. So the 7300 GT has got to be a lot better 'cause it's got a higher number plus a GT on the end of the number doesn't it?

A lot of people don't need Wi-Fi or Bluetooth in their workstation. I don't have it in my Quad G5 and have never missed it. Direct hard wire to internet through a router is faster as well as on the local GB network. I am surprised to learn today that Wi-Fi in the Mac Pro will eat a PCI Express slot. That blows. In the G5's it's got a dedicated Airport slot - or did before PCI Express. I would have to look into if it still has a dedicated slot in the Dual Core and Quad G5's.

I hear you. But I doubt Apple will change their plan.

Exactly. Well Said. The stock 6600 with 256 in the G5 Quad is a fantastic card for 95% of all uses -- and I push my Quad very hard in the areas of Very Large Photoshop Files (large means 1.2 Gig FILES from full size fine art scans), 3D, Video, Flash, and Large Format design.

Same with Wi Fi. Never miss it in my Quad.

Too many people complain about things based on numbers and specs. I for one like Apple's business model and applaud their profit incentives as it keeps R&D strong in areas that are more important to me than mere numbers -- areas like OSX, Xserve, Case Design, Quality of Build, iPod (important as an end user media vehicle for my work), etc.

Well Said.

DJO

bloodycape

Aug 8, 2006, 04:23 PM

I'd like to know the clock speeds on the 7300GT we're getting in the Mac Pro. It looks like the overclocked it in those tests. So it's quite competitive for its price but not against the X1600 Pro.
If I am thinking right, I have a feeling that the 7300GT(hell I got the same feeling about ATI and Quadro) is underclocked like the the ATI X1600 and the Intel GMA.

MacBoobsPro

Aug 8, 2006, 04:35 PM

AMEN!

Read the article on Tomshardware about Xeons.

You need 4 FB-Dimms to get the full bandwith.

You otherwise cripple the system.

The same misstake that many people does with Macbook pros with just one DIMM.

Bring back the G4s. Only needed one DIMM, and a whooping 133mhz!

Oh Assflaps!

So Apple again have us over a barrel with RAM :rolleyes:

Still its damn hard to get mad at them :D

Multimedia

Aug 8, 2006, 04:38 PM

Kind of, yeah... LOL! But also, we expanded the old one to its limits long ago, and you can't really "expand" an iMac. They want something expandable and more futureproof. I can see a Blue-Ray drive swap and such in my head... ;)They can get a Quad Mac Pro @ 2GHz with a 160GB HD for $1962 Educational. Maybe you pitch in the other $270 to make it 2.66GHz? :p

macenforcer

Aug 8, 2006, 04:44 PM

AMEN!

Read the article on Tomshardware about Xeons.

You need 4 FB-Dimms to get the full bandwith.

You otherwise cripple the system.

The same misstake that many people does with Macbook pros with just one DIMM.

Bring back the G4s. Only needed one DIMM, and a whooping 133mhz!

I have a funny feeling that even with 2 dimms the computer will be faster than anything out there. Remember the old days of the 8500s when if you put the dimms in pairs the interleaving increased performance? I did that and had a big eye roll afterwards as I noticed NOTHING.

Jbook

Aug 8, 2006, 04:46 PM

Mine ships september 13th :(

let the wait begin

Multimedia

Aug 8, 2006, 04:48 PM

Yea, thats right about the pairs of ram for the new MacPro's. Thats why I got the 4X512 from Apple with my new system.

Multimedia said it was a bad idea but I dont agree!Instead of paying Crucial $344 for TWO MORE GB for a total of 3 occupying only 4 slots, you paid Apple $300 for ONE MORE GB taking up the same 4 slots for a total of 2GB. You are a regular rocket scientist Grokgod. :rolleyes: :eek:

BTW according to tests, the gain from two same size sticks in the MBP turns out to be NOMINAL. Similar results may come to pass for the 4 at-a-time theory in Mac Pro.I have a funny feeling that even with 2 dimms the computer will be faster than anything out there. Remember the old days of the 8500s when if you put the dimms in pairs the interleaving increased performance? I did that and had a big eye roll afterwards as I noticed NOTHING.Thank you. Zactly my point. The bottle neck for me will not be in the speed of the RAM but in the number of cores. I suppose it matters what application might be RAM speed Max critical, but I can't think of any can you? :rolleyes:

Spaceman Spiff

Aug 8, 2006, 04:54 PM

Mine ships september 13th :(

let the wait begin

In my experience the "Ships By" date is really just the date that they are absolutely certain it will, well, ship by. No Apple product I've ever ordered has shipped on the "Ships By" date, always earlier. The page where you configured your Mac Pro probably stated a 3-5 week shipping date. Well guess what? 5 weeks from now is September 13th.

You can start hoping on the 29th, I should think.

On a side note, does anyone if have 3 gigabytes of RAM is a bad thing? I've heard various things about having these chips be identical and values being even and so on, and I haven't a clue. I was going to put two 1 gig sticks in alongside the two 512s that my Pro is coming with, for a 3 gig 2x512, 2x1024 setup. But would it be that much better to say, sell of the 512s and get a couple more 1 gig sticks for 4 gigabytes? I'd only do this is it's going to be much better. I only have a bit over a thousand dollars left for RAM and displays, and I'm even more confused about getting a display.

SPUY767

Aug 8, 2006, 04:54 PM

This is kind of interesting.
http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6625581.html?tag=blog

Andrew Gruen Looks like a red-headed satan.

SPUY767

Aug 8, 2006, 04:57 PM

On a side note, does anyone if have 3 gigabytes of RAM is a bad thing? I've heard various things about having these chips be identical and values being even and so on, and I haven't a clue. I was going to put two 1 gig sticks in alongside the two 512s that my Pro is coming with, for a 3 gig 2x512, 2x1024 setup. But would it be that much better to say, sell of the 512s and get a couple more 1 gig sticks for 4 gigabytes? I'd only do this is it's going to be much better. I only have a bit over a thousand dollars left for RAM and displays, and I'm even more confused about getting a display.

No difference. As long as corresponding banks are matched. I ran a G5 on 3.5 Gigs of Ram for months and months with not a single hitch. When i finally upgraded to 4 gigs and dropped the 2 PC3200 chips in a wintel box, I noticed no increase in performance.

Spaceman Spiff

Aug 8, 2006, 04:59 PM

No difference. As long as corresponding banks are matched. I ran a G5 on 3.5 Gigs of Ram for months and months with not a single hitch. When i finally upgraded to 4 gigs and dropped the 2 PC3200 chips in a wintel box, I noticed no increase in performance.

Neat, thanks! Then I still have a fair bit of money to deal with the display thing.

macenforcer

Aug 8, 2006, 05:00 PM

Mine ships september 13th :(

let the wait begin

Mine ships Aug. 10th on Thursday. I have been refreshing every 10 seconds for a tracking number as it says 1-3 business days. I placed the order the second the apple store came up.

Multimedia

Aug 8, 2006, 05:15 PM

On a side note, does anyone if have 3 gigabytes of RAM is a bad thing? I've heard various things about having these chips be identical and values being even and so on, and I haven't a clue. I was going to put two 1 gig sticks in alongside the two 512s that my Pro is coming with, for a 3 gig 2x512, 2x1024 setup. But would it be that much better to say, sell of the 512s and get a couple more 1 gig sticks for 4 gigabytes? I'd only do this is it's going to be much better. I only have a bit over a thousand dollars left for RAM and displays, and I'm even more confused about getting a display.You did the right thing IMO. You can save a lot buying Dell Displays. You should be able to find teh 24" 1920 x 1200 - same source as Apple - for $800 on EBay. There's a Dell reseller there who buys them in bulk from Dell and resells them super cheap with a good resale rating. I love mine next to the 1600 x 1200 20" Dell. :D

Grokgod

Aug 8, 2006, 05:30 PM

Multimedia

The point here is that if you want optimum performance which the purpose of buying this type of MacPro, the ram is supposed to be placed in fours!

"Mac Pro uses 667MHz DDR2 fully buffered ECC memory, a new industry-standard memory technology that allows for more memory capacity, higher speeds, and better reliability. To take full advantage of the 256-bit wide memory architecture, four or more FB-DIMMs should be installed in Mac Pro."

It doesnt take a rocket scientist to read the data on the ram.

It merely takes someone that isnt always searching for the LOWEST common denominator to save 67 bucks on lowering a HD configuration.

I want the best computer that I can buy and therefore i got the 4 sticks with the intention of filling the other ram slots.

I plan to have a total of 10 gigs when done or perhaps take out the 4x512 later and fill them for a total of 16 gigs.

Depending on performance with the various applications I use.

I dont spend most of my time in Safari and mail as you do.

I spend it in High End graphics from 3d to 2d.

I use my computer to create beyond the average user and am not seeking the lowest to merely get by, I am seeking the best.

And isnt that what APPLE is all about?

I still think your AVATAR says it all! LOL:D

Flame off.:p

Friendly flames,only look and sound hot, for entertainment purposes only.

No children were burned in creating this post.

Thank you

piltupso

Aug 8, 2006, 05:31 PM

Sorry in advance if this has been answered already. I have read the first 8 pages on this thread and just need a summary. I have finally decided to plop down the cash for a MacPro and want to clear some things up before I order. Most of the complaints I have read so far are about the graphics card and though I have been shopping since April I never thought about graphics cards. I am currently using a 5 yr old Generic PC with a nvidia Ge Force 5700 Ultra in it that is a couple years old so I am thinking the base card in the MacPro must be way better? I would not consider myself a gamer but one of the duties of my new machine will be a home computer that does play an occansional game any thoughts about the dissapointment level with an occansional game use? I have heard some talk about revisions, anyone have any ideas about a typical revision cycle or how far I would sticking my neck out if I bought one today? Thanks

macenforcer

Aug 8, 2006, 05:50 PM

No where does it say the ram in the mac pro needs to be installed 4 of the same size dimms. So is it safe to assume 2 x 1gb and 2 x 512mb dimms would allow 256bit?

gwangung

Aug 8, 2006, 05:54 PM

Grokgod

Aug 8, 2006, 06:22 PM

lol ziiipppp!

i thought it was a little entertaining! no?

Mac Rules

Aug 8, 2006, 06:39 PM

I'm impressed with the pricing, for exmple, I just configured a Mac Pro, with the full 3GHz cores, 16Gb RAM, 2TB of HDD, etc The works, and it cam to under £9000, I seem to remember doing somthing very similar to the G5, and it was much much more, like over £12,000...

Not bad at all, but at the mo, its way more than I need! lol

Cheers

macenforcer

Aug 8, 2006, 06:53 PM

Oh snap. Wife just stopped at the apple store on her way home from work and got me a 30" Cinema Display to go with my Mac Pro. God I love her. Hooking up on my PC now. MAN!

Peter Weisz

Aug 8, 2006, 07:05 PM

Send a message via AIM to Peter Weisz

Did you hear this one?
Can anyone confirm the rumor that Apple has removed the OPTION key from all new Mac Pro machines?
I guess Options are a sensitive subject in Cupertino these days.

Yes, Steve did look rather gaunt at yesterday's keynote. But bear two things in mind:
1. He is a recovering pancreatic cancer victim.
2. He is either a vegan or vegetarian.

Steve did seem to rely upon his exec staff more than in the past, but it did give us the opportunity to size them up a bit. A few observations...

1. Phil Schiller looks as though he could hold his own in a Sumo wrestling bout with Steve Ballmer.

2. Bertrand sounded as though he was auditioning for the Inspector Clouseau part in The Pink Panther.

3. Scott Forrestall appeared to be aping Steve Jobs' gestures, mannerisms and speech patterns. Is he the anointed one? Is he being groomed as Jobs' successor? If it happens, you read it here first.

Like most of Wall Street and the world, I hope that neither illness nor executive shuffling prevent Steve from helming Apple for many decades to come.

Willis

Aug 8, 2006, 07:34 PM

I still don't understand the people that complain about not having WiFi and Bluetooth standard. This is a Tower. You are not going to be moving it around too much so WiFi is pointless. Also Bluetooth can be had with a $20 USB Adapter if you are going to use it all the time.

I dare somebody to find any other computer that even has WiFi and or Bluetooth standard.

how about the iMac? :rolleyes:

Willis

Aug 8, 2006, 07:53 PM

Has anyone been able to watch that whole keynote without it breaking up like a bad windows-media straming feed?... egad. Apple makes themselves look bad if they can't dedicate enough server redundancy to meet the demand... I'm on a high-speed cable modem line and I still can't get more than 5 seconds without it breaking up....

Its only because EVERYONE has tried to view it. i got 20 mins before it decided to break up. then i had no connections for about an hour. tried again after... perfect stream from start to finish.

Willis

Aug 8, 2006, 07:55 PM

Oh, a sidenote about RAM.

Ive read that the RAM can only be placed in pairs. its a shame Apple went OTT on the FBDIMM as its soo expensive. Im sure that'll change in 6 months.

minnesotamacman

Aug 8, 2006, 09:04 PM

You did the right thing IMO. You can save a lot buying Dell Displays. You should be able to find teh 24" 1920 x 1200 - same source as Apple - for $800 on EBay. There's a Dell reseller there who buys them in bulk from Dell and resells them super cheap with a good resale rating. I love mine next to the 1600 x 1200 20" Dell. :D

I would take the Apple Cinema Display in the 23" model for $999 any day, or at $899 for educational.. AT the end of the day, the extra couple hundred is worth it to get away from the cheap plastic crap Dell is passing off.

Multimedia

Aug 8, 2006, 10:38 PM

I would take the Apple Cinema Display in the 23" model for $999 any day, or at $899 for educational.. AT the end of the day, the extra couple hundred is worth it to get away from the cheap plastic crap Dell is passing off.Wow I didn't realize how much the displays got reduced in price yesterday. The 30" are only $1800 refurb. So I guess this is a matter of personal preference. You see I prefer the Dell dark brown frames to the shiny Aluminum Apple frames. Plus the Dell Rotate 90°. Unfortunately the NVIDIA graphics cards don't support Pivot like ATI cards do. I had Pivot support on my Dual 2.5GHz G5 but don't on my Quad G5. Bummer. Stupid NVIDIA. :eek:

Moreover the Dell Monitors have video inputs as well as analog VGA inputs so I can view two computers on the same monitor by switching the Dell input from DVI to VGA. I really like that a lot MN MacMan.

I don't think of the Dell enclosures as "cheap plastic crap" at all. I really like Dark Brown Plastic more than shiny Aluminum. I am working in the dark most of the time and the dark Dell frames are invisible in the dark. I'm afraid Apple's Aluminum would be reflecting all sorts of distractions in the dark. ;) With the Dell monitors in the dark I only see the screens.

Multimedia

Aug 8, 2006, 10:48 PM

Oh snap. Wife just stopped at the apple store on her way home from work and got me a 30" Cinema Display to go with my Mac Pro. God I love her. Hooking up on my PC now. MAN!Man you are so lucky to have such a thoughtful loving woman. :)

artpease

Aug 8, 2006, 11:03 PM

That makes no sense. It is the SAME exact memory.
macenforcer,
Well, after all that fuss last night about the Mac Pro Crucial P/N for the 2x1gb Kit being CT576475, I received my shipping notice and invoice and they are shipping me CT2KIT12872AF667.

So as you said, "It is the SAME exact memory".:D

Of course, we'll see what shows up in the box...

artpease

Aug 9, 2006, 12:07 AM

Moreover the Dell Monitors have video inputs as well as analog VGA inputs so I can view two computers on the same monitor by switching the Dell input from DVI to VGA.
I like all of the inputs on the Dell also and the 24" is on sale at Dell for $747.15 at the moment. I'd buy another 24" to replace my 20" palete monitor, but I don't have the desk space. On the 20", I have a PMG5 secondary on the DVI and a mini on the vga.
My Mac Pro arrives Thursday to replace the PMG5! :D :D :D

macenforcer

Aug 9, 2006, 12:31 AM

Multimedia

Aug 9, 2006, 12:57 AM

I like all of the inputs on the Dell also and the 24" is on sale at Dell for $747.15 at the moment. I'd buy another 24" to replace my 20" palete monitor, but I don't have the desk space. On the 20", I have a PMG5 secondary on the DVI and a mini on the vga.
My Mac Pro arrives Thursday to replace the PMG5! :D :D :DHere's a link to that sale page. (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-4335) I might buy one. Oops they're dopping the ball on their 30". Priced at $2199 (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=222-0863), the Apple is now only $1799 on the refurb page. So Apple wins the 30 price war for now. But I did see a guy on EBay selling those 30's for a lot less. He buys them in bulk from Dell wholesale. Can't remember the price right now. But looking closer at the spcs Apple has Dell beat on the 30" because the Dell has no FW hub while Apple has both FW and USB hubs in theirs. VGA is not a factor on the 30's nor is video. So have to vote for Apple on the 30". Wish I had that money to burn. ;) Don't.

I'm gonna keep my Quad G5 even if I buy the Mac Pro. I need all the cores I can get.

But the selling point for me isn't speed as much as it is the capacity for 6 SATA Drives inside. That is killer. Opticals are OPTIONAL (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2698846&postcount=141).

shompa

Aug 9, 2006, 03:02 AM

Will the next round of MacPro's have the Kentfield or Clovertown chip? I can't seem to get a straight answer on this.

Also, why would it be worth the wait? Are these chips expected to be cheaper?

Just curious.

Thanks.

Since Steve Jobs does not work at MacRumors, we don't know! :)

Since the processor in MacPro is in a socket, you can change it. It may require a firmware, but you can change it.

So, is Clowertonw pin compatible?
If it is. Buy a 2ghz system today and put in a Clowertown chip in 8 month.

I will not ask what you want to do with 8 processors.

I had huge problems with dual G5, that they were to slow for me. Just remember that I/O is really a system killer.

Anyone who buys a 4x3ghz system, and uses a stock 160/250 gig harddrive...
WHY?

I have over 1000 I/0s per sec. (and I use 5gig memory)

Multimedia

Aug 9, 2006, 03:24 AM

Will the next round of MacPro's have the Kentfield or Clovertown chip? I can't seem to get a straight answer on this.

Also, why would it be worth the wait? Are these chips expected to be cheaper?Since the processor in MacPro is in a socket, you can change it. It may require a firmware, but you can change it.

So, is Clowertown pin compatible?
If it is. Buy a 2ghz system today and put in a Clowertown chip in 8 month.

I will not ask what you want to do with 8 processors.

I had huge problems with dual G5, that they were to slow for me. Just remember that I/O is really a system killer.

Anyone who buys a 4x3ghz system, and uses a stock 160/250 gig harddrive...
WHY?

I have over 1000 I/0s per sec. (and I use 5gig memory)It will be Clovertown. But I don't see the point of wanting to change out processors when you can simply wait for the Clovertown 8 Core Mac Pro all optimized and bug fixed for that processor to ship this Winter shortly after or during the SF MacWorld Expo '07. What else is Steve gonna talk about in his January 9 SteveNote? :p

I am going to try and hold out for Dual Clovertown with Leopard on board. But I may not make it all the way til Spring. Gotta have more cores that's for sure. The G5 and Mac Pro Quads are good. But not really good enough for heavy video transcoding work. And even 8 cores won't be enough for me. :eek:

FYI Kentsfield - not Kentfield -are only Quad Core for Single Conroe socketed motherboards. iMacs may get Kentsfield if they re-design them to handle more heat. iMacs are due for a re-design IMO.

glassbathroom

Aug 9, 2006, 05:14 AM

glassbathroom

Aug 9, 2006, 06:10 AM

Anyone suggest a good supplier of memory in the UK (or Europe) for a Mac Pro?

I know about Crucial, but would rather not buy from there if I can avoid it. They have some dodgy pricing thing going on with their website.

vendettabass

Aug 9, 2006, 06:44 AM

ebuyers pretty good for prices....
http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/search/?strSearch=Crucial&bolShowAll=true&intStoreID=2

daneoni

Aug 9, 2006, 08:10 AM

orcalogic.co.uk is also pretty good

woolfgang

Aug 9, 2006, 08:49 AM

Am I crazy, or has the store web page not been available for about 24 hours.

macdragonfl

Aug 9, 2006, 09:12 AM

It seems that a real media center style mac could nicely fit in between the mini and the pro. It then could offer upgrades graphic cards and price points in the middle of the two lines. The consumer lines and updates are never shown at WWDC they would be at there own event.

MauiBoy

Aug 9, 2006, 09:13 AM

Trekkie

Aug 9, 2006, 09:53 AM

So, is Clowertonw pin compatible?

I believe it is supposed to be, I'm sure after IDF we will know more. AMD is saying theirs is, I can't see Intel not doing it.

Trekkie

Aug 9, 2006, 09:54 AM

Maybe this is a stupid question, but are the days of needing a "Mac" video card over now, with the Intel transition? Or, do the manufacturers still need a Mac ROM to be compatible with the new Mac Pro? In other words, can I stick any PCI-e-compatible video card into a Mac Pro?

Architechture was never the issue, Device drivers are.

Unless Apple opens up the device driver model to let the vendors make their own, i doubt it. Plus I don't want to have to update video drivers every few weeks like you do on a PC if you play any games. It seems like every time I get a new game on my sony it needs a new level of the video driver to work.

MauiBoy

Aug 9, 2006, 11:51 AM

Architechture was never the issue, Device drivers are.

Unless Apple opens up the device driver model to let the vendors make their own, i doubt it. Plus I don't want to have to update video drivers every few weeks like you do on a PC if you play any games. It seems like every time I get a new game on my sony it needs a new level of the video driver to work.

I see. So, for example, I could get a generic (say, Abit or Gigabyte) ATI X1900 and stick in there? Or, a generic nVidia 7300GT? Just as long as the model numbers match what is "officially supported" by Apple. Just curious, as it seems like the Apple-branded models are always underclocked.

artpease

Aug 9, 2006, 03:27 PM

My Mac Pro arrives Thursday to replace the PMG5! :D :D :D
WOW, so much for Thursday, 49 hours and 16 minutes after order it came through the door. (ground shipping yet, Elk Grove to Seattle) Double :D :D :D :D :D :D

Trekkie

Aug 9, 2006, 03:48 PM

I see. So, for example, I could get a generic (say, Abit or Gigabyte) ATI X1900 and stick in there? Or, a generic nVidia 7300GT? Just as long as the model numbers match what is "officially supported" by Apple. Just curious, as it seems like the Apple-branded models are always underclocked.

That and the adapter you put in must recognize EFI instead of BIOS

THX1139

Aug 9, 2006, 08:05 PM

WOW, so much for Thursday, 49 hours and 16 minutes after order it came through the door. (ground shipping yet, Elk Grove to Seattle) Double :D :D :D :D :D :D

That was fast! I wonder if I can just drive over and pick mine up since I only live a half hour from Elk Grove? Does anyone know if all the Macpros, including the BTO, come from the Sacramento area? I thought Apple did most of the fabrication in China, or is that just the consumer products?

kbonnel

Aug 10, 2006, 08:26 AM

That was fast! I wonder if I can just drive over and pick mine up since I only live a half hour from Elk Grove? Does anyone know if all the Macpros, including the BTO, come from the Sacramento area? I thought Apple did most of the fabrication in China, or is that just the consumer products?

I picked mine up at my apple store yesterday, and they didn't have any BTO options available. Heck, they just got the Mac Pro in that day. (It was overnighted from the factory)

I haven't done a whole lot with it, but I have already noticed it being so much faster than any other Mac I have used / owned. Word loads super fast :) I am looking to buy memory, and would rather not buy the apple ram just due to the price increase.

Kimo

kbonnel

Aug 10, 2006, 08:51 AM

micxmac

Aug 10, 2006, 09:01 AM

It's finally here...

Pros

1. Same case as old one (nice visually)
2. Quad processors across the line
3. 4 hard drives vs 2
4. 2 optical drives vs 1
5. a couple more I/O ports

Cons

1. Any dimwit knows the last 3 items should have been in the G5 design years ago
2. The Xeon CPU's are designed for servers not workstations - marginal performance improvement for way more $$$
3. Windows graphics cards won't work in it even though it is an Intel M/B - tell me that is not a deliberate abuse to OSX supporters.
4. They want you to pay $2,500 for a computer with a $50 graphics card?
5. Your choice of graphics cards are the $50 one or a $500 one or a $1,500 one. There are zillions of great cards between $50 and $500 available to PC users.
6. They increased the base price from $2,000 to $2,500. The whole rest of the world has dramatically reduced prices in the same time frame.
7. The only other choice in the product line is a laptop that you have to bolt to a desk (iMac) or a toy (Mac Mini) - complete void in the product line for the average power user. Neither of these other slugs is expandable.
8. Only has PCI-Express slots - not sure if regular PCI cards will work, I have some expensive PCI cards that do video conversion,SCSI etc.

The new Power Mac is probably great for people that render videos for a living on tight deadlines. Not sure who else it is intended for, it is way over priced for any other application.

And finally, on the posted tests to date, it only does Photoshop (under Rosetta) at the same speed as the old dual G5. i guess that there is some hope when PS is universal though. I can build an AMD Dual CPU PC that will kill this thing in Photoshop for about $500. Hell, I can build 5 of them for the price of the base unit Mac Pro.

My conclusion, Apple is out to lunch, I would feel really stupid buying one of these. They have no computer for the average power user.

JoshRtek

Aug 10, 2006, 09:15 AM

The new Power Mac is probably great for people that render videos for a living on tight deadlines.

Yup, that'd be me. When you buy a Mac, your getting a system built for you with generally high-end components at a standard that I've not seen by any PC manufacturer (or myself, when building a PC) adhere to.

Not satisfied? Buy Applecare.

Cowinacape

Aug 10, 2006, 09:36 AM

FYI

Called Kingston to see if a specific memory module worked, and they indicated they do have a specific MacPro kit avaialbe (1Gig and 2Gig). The part numbers are:

KTA-MP667K2/1G KTA-MP667K2/2G

(The MP = Mac Pro)

Just thought you all would like to know.

NOTE: So far I only find one place that carry's them:
http://www.neutronexpress.com/prod.cfm/463872/KINGSTON/KTAMP667K21G/1GB_667MHZ_KIT_FOR_APPLE_DESKTOP_PC_APPLE_MAC_PRO_DESKTOP_APPLE_XSERVE_XEON_LIFETIME_WARRANTY

Kimo

For my fellow Canucks, this ram also seems to be available north of the border (US pricing though) a F.Y.I.

[URL="http://www.neutroncanada.com/prod.cfm/467490/KINGSTON/KTA-MP667K2/1G"]

Thanks to kbonnel for the original link!

Cowinacape

Aug 10, 2006, 09:38 AM

FYI

Called Kingston to see if a specific memory module worked, and they indicated they do have a specific MacPro kit avaialbe (1Gig and 2Gig). The part numbers are:

KTA-MP667K2/1G KTA-MP667K2/2G

(The MP = Mac Pro)

Just thought you all would like to know.

NOTE: So far I only find one place that carry's them:
http://www.neutronexpress.com/prod.cfm/463872/KINGSTON/KTAMP667K21G/1GB_667MHZ_KIT_FOR_APPLE_DESKTOP_PC_APPLE_MAC_PRO_DESKTOP_APPLE_XSERVE_XEON_LIFETIME_WARRANTY

Kimo

For my fellow Canucks, this ram also seems to be available north of the border (US pricing though) a F.Y.I.

http://www.neutroncanada.com/prod.cfm/467490/KINGSTON/KTA-MP667K2/1G

Thanks to kbonnel for the original link!

kbonnel

Aug 10, 2006, 09:44 AM

I love mine :)

You have some valid points, but some I don't think are correct. Such as number 6. They didn't increase the price; the $2500 is actually the middle system, which has always been $2500. You have the option of using the 2.0Ghz cpu's, which lowers the cost. Also, the $2500 system, from the benchmarks out there right now, is faster than the previous top of the line Quad G5, so you are actually getting more for your money, and even more for your money if you were to compare it too the last middle of the range G5. (which is how technology works, the longer you wait, the more you get for you dough).

The whole Photoshop comparison is crap, as everybody knows that the current CS2/Photoshop are no compiled for Intel CPU's. This isn't Apples fault. If you need serious Photoshop work, then stick with the Quad G5, or build a window's box. Don't compare the new Mac Pro to a bunch of cheaper AMD's just because it can't run Photoshop as fast. (I am not bashing AMD, as I love their CPU's, and have a couple of them)

The video card isn't the best, but it is more than enough for a workstation machine where you don't need GPU power. If you need a workstation to perform GPU intensive work, Apple does provide available, albeit limited, video options. I didn't buy my Mac Pro to play games, as there aren't any out there that I want to play right now. When games become more popular, then I am sure GPU's will follow.

Of course, these are my opinions :)

Kimo

It's finally here...

Pros

1. Same case as old one (nice visually)
2. Quad processors across the line
3. 4 hard drives vs 2
4. 2 optical drives vs 1
5. a couple more I/O ports

Cons

1. Any dimwit knows the last 3 items should have been in the G5 design years ago
2. The Xeon CPU's are designed for servers not workstations - marginal performance improvement for way more $$$
3. Windows graphics cards won't work in it even though it is an Intel M/B - tell me that is not a deliberate abuse to OSX supporters.
4. They want you to pay $2,500 for a computer with a $50 graphics card?
5. Your choice of graphics cards are the $50 one or a $500 one or a $1,500 one. There are zillions of great cards between $50 and $500 available to PC users.
6. They increased the base price from $2,000 to $2,500. The whole rest of the world has dramatically reduced prices in the same time frame.
7. The only other choice in the product line is a laptop that you have to bolt to a desk (iMac) or a toy (Mac Mini) - complete void in the product line for the average power user. Neither of these other slugs is expandable.
8. Only has PCI-Express slots - not sure if regular PCI cards will work, I have some expensive PCI cards that do video conversion,SCSI etc.

The new Power Mac is probably great for people that render videos for a living on tight deadlines. Not sure who else it is intended for, it is way over priced for any other application.

And finally, on the posted tests to date, it only does Photoshop (under Rosetta) at the same speed as the old dual G5. i guess that there is some hope when PS is universal though. I can build an AMD Dual CPU PC that will kill this thing in Photoshop for about $500. Hell, I can build 5 of them for the price of the base unit Mac Pro.

My conclusion, Apple is out to lunch, I would feel really stupid buying one of these. They have no computer for the average power user.

kbonnel

Aug 10, 2006, 09:52 AM

For my fellow Canucks, this ram also seems to be available north of the border (US pricing though) a F.Y.I.

http://www.neutroncanada.com/prod.cfm/467490/KINGSTON/KTA-MP667K2/1G

Thanks to kbonnel for the original link!

If anybody finds out if they have them in stock, please post. I called neutron this morning, and they weren't sure. I don't think they do, as Kingston indicated that they are not yet released, and still in development/research.

I also called Crucial about the memory previously listed, and they indicated that they pulled the memory off the website, as their heatsinks are not "apple certified", or something like that. They have not ETA.

And to make matters worse, Apple indicated that memory won't be shipping for a week if you order it through them!!!!

Kimo

Cowinacape

Aug 10, 2006, 10:26 AM

For those still playing along with the ram game at home, CanadaRam is advertising the new ram on their site now

http://canadaram.com/macram.html

$311.00 for 2x512 - Available now (?)
$479.00 for 2x1gig - In stock Aug. 12th
$1006.00 for 2x2gig - Taking orders

All in CDN $

No, I do not have any connection to Canadaram.

bloodycape

Aug 10, 2006, 02:41 PM

It's finally here...
My conclusion, Apple is out to lunch, I would feel really stupid buying one of these. They have no computer for the average power user.

I think you might be wrong. I think Apple will bring a tower with a the Core 2 Duo to fill the gap.

Can anyone tell me how good the Quadro is and if it really cost $1,500 retail or if that is the price apple is charging? Besides 512mb of GFX memory doesn't always mean it is better. Many windows gamers and video people will tell you, that a 256mb card with a higher gpu clock will give you better performance and fps than a 512mb with a lower clock.

kbonnel

Aug 10, 2006, 02:56 PM

FYI

http://www.datamem.com has the 512MB Dimms in stock for $125, and they said they would be getting the 1GB sticks in tomorrow (8/11). The 1GB sticks are $189.

I ordered the 1GB kit (2x512), so hopefully that will be enough. If not, then crap, guess I will have to buy more.

Kimo

artpease

Aug 10, 2006, 03:14 PM

macenforcer,
Well, after all that fuss last night about the Mac Pro Crucial P/N for the 2x1gb Kit being CT576475, I received my shipping notice and invoice and they are shipping me CT2KIT12872AF667.

So as you said, "It is the SAME exact memory".:D

Of course, we'll see what shows up in the box...

UPDATE :( :( :(
Just received this memory. Because it looked so different than Apple, I rechecked Crucial website and Mac Pro memory is no longer available. I called Crucial Tech Support and asked if it was OK to install.

THEY SAID NO! and gave me an RMA.

It also appears that Kingston has pulled their part number also.

I had called RamJet on Monday after the announcement and they said it would be next week before they would have any information.

Grokgod

Aug 10, 2006, 03:21 PM

Aha! Crucial pulled the memory because it didnt meet Apple specs!

Wow, So I DID make the right choice by getting the 2 gigs of ram with my MacPro when I ordered and there so many that said NO.

This way I get 2 gigs so I acan get some work done and be able to wait till Crucial gets their stuff together and gets Apple approved!

I wonder who is making Apple's ram for the MAcpros then?

aswitcher

Aug 10, 2006, 03:27 PM

It's finally here...

My conclusion, Apple is out to lunch, I would feel really stupid buying one of these. They have no computer for the average power user.

I agree in that Apple have widened the Gap between Mini and Pro. I think thats deliberate to allow them to slot a Core 2 Duo machine in.

If they weren't going to do that then they should have produce a Core 2Duo model of the Pro for the low end or a single Xeon model like they bhad for the early part of their G5 line.

I hope this machine will appear at Paris, which is far enough away to get production up on the C2D half sized model.

Eidorian

Aug 10, 2006, 03:33 PM

I agree in that Apple have widened the Gap between Mini and Pro. I think thats deliberate to allow them to slot a Core 2 Duo machine in.

If they weren't going to do that then they should have produce a Core 2Duo model of the Pro for the low end or a single Xeon model like they bhad for the early part of their G5 line.

I hope this machine will appear at Paris, which is far enough away to get production up on the C2D half sized model.That or Apple will just put Merom into the iMac and call it a day...

aswitcher

Aug 10, 2006, 03:40 PM

That or Apple will just put Merom into the iMac and call it a day...

Which would be disappoiting because;

I want dual HDDs - especially now we have Time Machine coming.
I want to run my LCDTV - much better for me to have a headless Mac for that.
I want to run my sound through my TV or surround sound not my Mac.
I want 4 ram slots for cheaper ram or more ram latter for work horse studd like HD video etc.
I want to be able to upgrade to Bluray without having to buy a new machine.
Slots give me better options for HDTV recording.

and

I think other people want to source their own video cards and upgrade them easily.
Replace HDDs with 10,000rpm ones.
Use slots for other more fringe things.

artpease

Aug 10, 2006, 05:17 PM

Aha! Crucial pulled the memory because it didnt meet Apple specs!

Wow, So I DID make the right choice by getting the 2 gigs of ram with my MacPro when I ordered and there so many that said NO.

This way I get 2 gigs so I acan get some work done and be able to wait till Crucial gets their stuff together and gets Apple approved!
I said no because I didn't want (4) 512s...I wish I had them now! :o

milo

Aug 10, 2006, 05:40 PM

Architechture was never the issue, Device drivers are.

Actually, architecture was an issue with previous macs, don't know if it still is. For a while, mac cards needed to be physically different. In more recent generations, the cards could usually be the same but usually had different firmware. Hopefully with the new intel systems that won't even be necessary.

2. The Xeon CPU's are designed for servers not workstations - marginal performance improvement for way more $$$

The xeon is what allows four cores. Conroe would be cheaper but only two cores, probably slower than a quad G5. Four cores instead of two is WAY more than a marginal improvement, it approaches double the speed if your app is ready for it.

3. Windows graphics cards won't work in it even though it is an Intel M/B - tell me that is not a deliberate abuse to OSX supporters.

Is that just speculation or has it been confirmed? And if they don't work, is that a permanent situation or just a delay on drivers?

4. They want you to pay $2,500 for a computer with a $50 graphics card?

It's all about BTO. That's just the base model, get whatever you want. And there's no jump from 50 to 500, they have cards that are $150 and $300 upgrades.

6. They increased the base price from $2,000 to $2,500. The whole rest of the world has dramatically reduced prices in the same time frame.

That's the price of the stock model. You can take it down to $2124 if you want to go cheaper, which I believe is about what the last base model cost (it was more than $1999). Not to mention that for the same price you're getting a quad instead of a dual. That's a damn good deal. And if you price out quad PC's, you're looking at the same price range as well - Dell hasn't dramatically reduced prices for their xeon quads.

I agree that the product line could use a midrange product for people with moderate power needs.

The new Power Mac is probably great for people that render videos for a living on tight deadlines. Not sure who else it is intended for, it is way over priced for any other application.

Audio and music guys will go nuts for this box, it's a dream come true. But yeah, it's a premium product. Nobody's going to buy one to surf the web.

And of course rosetta is slow. This box isn't for people who are still waiting for universal apps. Photoshop users might as well wait to upgrade until it's native, by then there will probably be an even faster machine.

My conclusion, Apple is out to lunch, I would feel really stupid buying one of these. They have no computer for the average power user.

Apple is out to lunch because it's not the machine for YOU? This is an absolutely killer machine for pro users who want a ton of power. I hope that an additional midrange model is on the way. I'm optimistic they'll have a cheap midtower with conroe fairly soon.

Here's a benchmark question - does the xeon 2.0 beat the G5 quad on universal benchmarks? Apologies if that's already been posted.

combatcolin

Aug 11, 2006, 06:27 AM

aswitcher

Aug 11, 2006, 06:43 AM

Be nice if they also put in one of thos great upscaling DVD chips, to upsacel DVD to 720p/1080p.

MacsRgr8

Aug 11, 2006, 07:04 AM

If you want a normal computer to which you attach the display of your choice from Apple then theres either the very cheap and limited Mac Mini or the insanely powerful and "How Much??" Mac Pro.

So yes, Apple is out to Lunch.

I don't want an iMac and i don't want a bloody Laptop as a desktop machine.

I want an affordable, expandable and upgradable Mac.

And as Apple can't sell me one im having to self build a Core Duo 2 PC system.

Not what a really want to do, but Apple have nothing to offer me.

I am no longer effected by the "Reality Force Field", my mortage, bills and debt come 1st.

Yep, I totally agree.
I think it's great that the top-end is a Quad. Also for the mid-level having a Quad is fine with me.
But I really miss a Conroe Desktop Mac.

Why couldn't Apple have built a Core 2 Duo Conroe 2.66 GHz?

Why a lower-clocked Quad instead of a higher clocked Dual?

If you really need 4 cores, you'll buy a high-end Mac Pro anyway.
But most of us who love a fast Mac at home with a 23" ACD attached to it, now have to get a Quad without hardly ever using it. Having a higher clocked Dual would have been a faster Mac in the home-user experience, and probably very affordable too.
:(

Eidorian

Aug 11, 2006, 07:45 AM

Which would be disappoiting because;

I want dual HDDs - especially now we have Time Machine coming.
I want to run my LCDTV - much better for me to have a headless Mac for that.
I want to run my sound through my TV or surround sound not my Mac.
I want 4 ram slots for cheaper ram or more ram latter for work horse studd like HD video etc.
I want to be able to upgrade to Bluray without having to buy a new machine.
Slots give me better options for HDTV recording.

and

I think other people want to source their own video cards and upgrade them easily.
Replace HDDs with 10,000rpm ones.
Use slots for other more fringe things.We all want that but I doubt Apple is going to do it. Merom is an easy choice for the iMac. Conroe is one as well. It's just much easier to go with Merom due to socket compatibility.

rickag

Aug 11, 2006, 08:29 AM

BenRoethig

Aug 11, 2006, 08:55 AM

If you want a normal computer to which you attach the display of your choice from Apple then theres either the very cheap and limited Mac Mini or the insanely powerful and "How Much??" Mac Pro.

So yes, Apple is out to Lunch.

I don't want an iMac and i don't want a bloody Laptop as a desktop machine.

I want an affordable, expandable and upgradable Mac.

And as Apple can't sell me one im having to self build a Core Duo 2 PC system.

Not what a really want to do, but Apple have nothing to offer me.

I am no longer effected by the "Reality Force Field", my mortage, bills and debt come 1st.

I agree 100%. Apple could make such a machine by simply putting a conroe in the existing mac pro case. Lets look at the price difference here:
5000x $500
P965: $150

2x 2.0ghz Xeon $632
Core 2 Duo E6400 $224

That's not even taking into account Apple's expensive memory. Apple could make an affordable 2.1ghz Conroe MacPro while keeping similar margins easily for $1299.

milo

Aug 11, 2006, 10:43 AM

If you want a normal computer to which you attach the display of your choice from Apple then theres either the very cheap and limited Mac Mini or the insanely powerful and "How Much??" Mac Pro.

I agree that apple needs a midrange machine.

But you assume that apple won't release this machine in the future (if you think about it, it wouldn't really make sense to release it at the same time as the pro). I'll bet they do. Time will tell.

I agree 100%. Apple could make such a machine by simply putting a conroe in the existing mac pro case.

But they might as well make a smaller case, even cheaper, with a bit less expansion. They need to have a completely different motherboard anyway. I'd love to see the midrange box be as affordable as possible, and while a Pro in the big case would save some money, an economy case would save more.

combatcolin

Aug 11, 2006, 11:44 AM

I agree that apple needs a midrange machine.

But you assume that apple won't release this machine in the future (if you think about it, it wouldn't really make sense to release it at the same time as the pro). I'll bet they do. Time will tell.

COMBATCOLIN CAN PREDICT THE FUTURE!!

I can, i really can!

;)

Just wait until the day after i shell out £500 on a self-build Core Duo 2 PC and then see what some black polo-shirted neo hippie who lives a million miles from the UK where it never rains decides to release at the same price as the iMacs.

It will happen!

:o

elsiedee

Aug 11, 2006, 11:14 PM

It's all about BTO. That's just the base model, get whatever you want. And there's no jump from 50 to 500, they have cards that are $150 and $300 upgrades.

No, they don't. The base card is a NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT. For $150 you can get 2 of them. For $300 you can get 3 of them. But to get a different card, the ATI Radeon X1900 XT, you have to spend $350. There's no mid-range offering.

JoshRtek

Aug 12, 2006, 04:29 AM

Just got my Mac Pro by Fedex today. Filled the three open drive bays with some old Western Digital SATA-I 250 gig drives. Apparently you can software-RAID 0 an odd number of drives...

Also took my NEC ND-3500 DVD+-RW drive in the second optical slot; works fine...

The standard 1.0 gig of RAM could be better...going to get some more once I can afford to. Still haven't gotten around to testing speed yet...

gnasher729

Aug 12, 2006, 06:21 PM

I agree 100%. Apple could make such a machine by simply putting a conroe in the existing mac pro case.

No they couldn't. There is a huge difference in the design of a motherboard for Conroe and for Woodcrest. For starters, Conroe cannot handle the memory chips used by Woodcrest.

BenRoethig

Aug 12, 2006, 06:47 PM

No they couldn't. There is a huge difference in the design of a motherboard for Conroe and for Woodcrest. For starters, Conroe cannot handle the memory chips used by Woodcrest.

4 regular DIMM slots could easily fit where those risers are.

McFoxy

Aug 12, 2006, 07:10 PM

I just can't decide what to do. I feel like getting a Mac Pro (even the 2.0 GHz) is probably a bit of, but not a lot of, overkill for me. I do like a fast computer!

I find my current 1.83 GHz iMac a bit slow at times. For example, if I am running FFMpegX, iSquint, and Toast all at the same time it is soooooo slow. Do you think the new iMacs will be noticeably faster, or should I just get a Mac Pro?

The one downside to the Mac Pro is that it doesn't come with some of the fun stuff like the remote, isight, etc. And, the iMacs are just a cleaner set up.

I'm torn. What would you do?

chatin

Aug 12, 2006, 07:41 PM

Bought mine today from Crossgates, Albany Mac store which was in the process of selling out of Mac Pros!

Only 2 left when I got mine. A large heavy duty packing carton contained my 65 pound work of art.

At last, the Mac I had been waiting for to tear loose my Sony FX1 HD Video and Final Cut Express on.

These are amazingly smooth machines. Silent running. Just one CPU blows away the fastest AMD64 based PC.

A look inside confirms that this machine is the ultimate mac power machine. I wasn't expecting all four drive brackets to come with the system. In the Xserve, they are expensive extras.

After being dissapointed with all the previous Intel processors, this is the one you've been waiting for!

:)

aswitcher

Aug 12, 2006, 08:15 PM

piltupso

Aug 12, 2006, 09:24 PM

COMBATCOLIN CAN PREDICT THE FUTURE!!

I can, i really can!

;)

Just wait until the day after i shell out £500 on a self-build Core Duo 2 PC and then see what some black polo-shirted neo hippie who lives a million miles from the UK where it never rains decides to release at the same price as the iMacs.

It will happen!

:o

I know the feeling. I just pulled the trigger on a Mac Pro yesterday and I am just sure any day now I am going to hear that some neo-hippie who lives a million miles from AK where it never snows has released something between the laptop on a stick (imac) and the nuclear powerhouse of the Mac Pro.

Eidorian

Aug 12, 2006, 09:28 PM

Wait for the new iMacs which will almost certainly have Core 2 Duo and be 30-40% faster from what I read. Hopefully will be out in September.If it's Conroe you're going to get a big leap over Yonah. You have a faster bus, more cache, and it clocks higher much faster then Merom for the same price.

If we get Merom in the iMac you're only going to see 10-15% at best in rendering and encoding. A few more fps in games if you're lucky. The video card is going to be a bigger bottleneck then the CPU.

Thunderbird

Aug 13, 2006, 05:17 PM

When I make the switch to Apple, I will be deciding between an iMac and the Mac Pro, with the main criterion being noise.

If Conroe gets put in the iMac, it will probably mean there will be an extra fan, which means noise. From what I understand, the Yonah iMac is virtually silent (<23 dBA). A Merom iMac, at only slightly higher wattage, may or may not need a fan.

Does anyone have any sources for the noise characteristics of the new Mac Pro yet?

I could only find these for the G5 tower and the intel iMac:

http://images.apple.com/environment/resources/pdf/apes_PMG5_2-22-06.pdf
http://images.apple.com/environment/resources/pdf/apes_iMac_7-12-06.pdf

THX1139

Aug 13, 2006, 06:32 PM

When I make the switch to Apple, I will be deciding between an iMac and the Mac Pro, with the main criterion being noise.

You're buying a computer based on noise? What about power requirements for tasks? Price? Purpose? If noise is your only concern, then just get a mini or an iMac. Both are quiet and you will save money. However, the Macpro will also be quiet if you only use it to surf the web or do email, but you will be buying more computer than you need if that is all you use it for.

Let me see if I can help you out... The first rule of buying a computer is deciding what you need it for and what software you plan to run. Then you figure out which computer will give you the most bang for your dollar to complete the tasks you require based on your budget. Finally, aesthetics such as noise, form factor, expansion and availability come into play. However, you often have to make a compromise based on your needs and budget. If you reply back with what software you plan to use and what type of work you do, then we might be able to help you make an informed decision.

The Macpro is a workstation class computer. It's not intended for average home users or folks who have little processing needs. I'm amazed at how many people are considering Macpros when they don't need one. They are obviously caught up in the hype and have money to flush down the toilet. :eek:

Thunderbird

Aug 13, 2006, 08:16 PM

I wasn't asking for help. I already know what my computing needs are. After assesing my needs and doing some research, I've boiled my decision down to either the iMac or the Mac Pro, with the main deciding factor being noise (along with price, upgradability, performance, etc.). I am leaning towards an iMac, which is why I am hoping whichever chip it gets upgraded to will not require a fan. But if the Mac Pro turns out to be quieter than the upgraded iMac, it could swing my decision.

AidenShaw

Aug 13, 2006, 09:43 PM

They can get a Quad Mac Pro @ 2GHz with a 160GB HD for $1962 Educational. Maybe you pitch in the other $270 to make it 2.66GHz? :p
It is pennywise - pound foolish to buy a disk smaller than the biggest possible.

The most expensive thing on a typical computer is the disk slot - you only get a few (or one) of them. Fill the slots with small disks, and you'll soon run out of space.

You'll soon regret wasting the 90 GB or so that you saved 60 dollars on.

The "cost per GB" of a disk is nothing compared to the "cost per disk slot".

JoshRtek

Aug 13, 2006, 11:15 PM

The "cost per GB" of a disk is nothing compared to the "cost per disk slot".

Unless, of course, you're giving said 160 GB drive to someone as a gift...in which case, you've won :D

kbonnel

Aug 14, 2006, 07:51 AM

Hi,

As far as noise is concerned, the Mac Pro is very, very quiet. I have been doing some minor stuff for the past few days, and I never hear it. I will be doing a lot more in the next couple of days, as my 2GB upgrade will arrive today. I can give a better idea of noise then. (I will be doing a lot more FCE, and Photo work).

I would say the loudest part of the mac pro is the hard drives, I can tell when they are spinning, and when they are sleeping. ( i currently have 2 WD 250GB in mine)

Kimo

When I make the switch to Apple, I will be deciding between an iMac and the Mac Pro, with the main criterion being noise.

If Conroe gets put in the iMac, it will probably mean there will be an extra fan, which means noise. From what I understand, the Yonah iMac is virtually silent (<23 dBA). A Merom iMac, at only slightly higher wattage, may or may not need a fan.

Does anyone have any sources for the noise characteristics of the new Mac Pro yet?

I could only find these for the G5 tower and the intel iMac:

http://images.apple.com/environment/resources/pdf/apes_PMG5_2-22-06.pdf
http://images.apple.com/environment/resources/pdf/apes_iMac_7-12-06.pdf

AidenShaw

Aug 14, 2006, 09:11 AM

Unless, of course, you're giving said 160 GB drive to someone as a gift...in which case, you've won :D
Wouldn't the gift of a 250 GB be even better? ;)

RUAerospace

Aug 14, 2006, 11:34 AM

The whole Photoshop comparison is crap, as everybody knows that the current CS2/Photoshop are no compiled for Intel CPU's. This isn't Apples fault. If you need serious Photoshop work, then stick with the Quad G5, or build a window's box. Don't compare the new Mac Pro to a bunch of cheaper AMD's just because it can't run Photoshop as fast. (I am not bashing AMD, as I love their CPU's, and have a couple of them)

Exactly, the Core 2 completely wipes out (http://reviews.cnet.com/Intel_Core_2_Duo_E6700/4505-3086_7-31973836-2.html?tag=nav) the Athlon64 in the pc version photoshop, the problem simply lies in Adobe's inability to port their existing pc photoshop program onto the mac platform (not to bash Adobe of course as the difficulties are probably signficant).

As far as a G5 comparison is concerned, a 2.6 GHz Athlon 64 Quad is already 20-30% faster (http://www.barefeats.com/macvpc.html) than a 2.5 GHz G5 Quad, As the Core 2 Duo is 20% faster than a 2.8 GHz Athlon64 in the same benchmark program, it is undoubtedly far faster than the top G5 system, at least as far as hardware is concerned.

JoshRtek

Aug 14, 2006, 01:06 PM

Wouldn't the gift of a 250 GB be even better?

Not when you use the saved $70 to buy yourself something bigger than 250 GBs.

ender78

Aug 14, 2006, 02:45 PM

It is pennywise - pound foolish to buy a disk smaller than the biggest possible.

The MP comes with FOUR slots. While I would not put 20GB drives in the machine, the downgrade to 160 is very worthwile. For $90 you can buy an extra drive. Second, with the advent of external storage, smaller drives can always be used for backup purposes. The $90 you save on the MP can be put to a much larger drive. Second, The price point for the biggest drives is outrageous [even more outrageous is what apple charges for the drives]. A 750GB drive should not be 4x the price of a 320GB drive. Where is the sense in that.

Thunderbird

Aug 14, 2006, 07:55 PM

Hi,

As far as noise is concerned, the Mac Pro is very, very quiet. I have been doing some minor stuff for the past few days, and I never hear it. I will be doing a lot more in the next couple of days, as my 2GB upgrade will arrive today. I can give a better idea of noise then. (I will be doing a lot more FCE, and Photo work).

I would say the loudest part of the mac pro is the hard drives, I can tell when they are spinning, and when they are sleeping. ( i currently have 2 WD 250GB in mine)

Kimo

Thanks kbonnel, that's good to know. So, you don't hear the fans much?

I understand that hard drive noise is difficult to completely get rid of. Though I don't mind HD seeking sounds too much. It's actually sometimes reassuring to know when the HD is kicking in and working properly.

kbonnel, please return to this thread when you have more to share about the Mac Pro and its sound levels. I'd be really interested.

kbonnel

Aug 14, 2006, 08:06 PM

Thanks kbonnel, that's good to know. So, you don't hear the fans much?

I understand that hard drive noise is difficult to completely get rid of. Though I don't mind HD seeking sounds too much. It's actually sometimes reassuring to know when the HD is kicking in and working properly.

kbonnel, please return to this thread when you have more to share about the Mac Pro and its sound levels. I'd be really interested.

Well, I have been using my Mac Pro most of the day with the additional Datamem.com memory (addition 2GB (1GB sticks), and I can report that I don't notice anything different. It sounds the same, though I doubt I could hear the fans ontop of the hard drive hum. (which is also not really noticable unless you put your ear close to the box, or you have a super quiet office/room.)

The additional ram made a very big difference in how fast this beast runs, and photoshop elements is moving very good.

For those of you who wanted to know, I plugged in my watt reader, and got these readings:

Powered off: 1Watt
Running Hardware Test: Range from 170watts - 202watts
Idle in OSX: 160 - 170watts
Doing some mild photoshop work (tops out so far at around 208watts)

When I find something that is really killing the processors, I will do another check.

Kimo

chatin

Aug 15, 2006, 03:51 AM

Well, I have been using my Mac Pro most of the day with the additional Datamem.com memory (addition 2GB (1GB sticks), and I can report that I don't notice anything different. It sounds the same, though I doubt I could hear the fans ontop of the hard drive hum. (which is also not really noticable unless you put your ear close to the box, or you have a super quiet office/room.)

The additional ram made a very big difference in how fast this beast runs, and photoshop elements is moving very good.

For those of you who wanted to know, I plugged in my watt reader, and got these readings:

Powered off: 1Watt
Running Hardware Test: Range from 170watts - 202watts
Idle in OSX: 160 - 170watts
Doing some mild photoshop work (tops out so far at around 208watts)

When I find something that is really killing the processors, I will do another check.

Kimo

1GB memory is still a problem for me. This new fb-dimm memory is pricey ($380 for 2GB)

3GB sounds out of balance!

Trekkie

Aug 15, 2006, 06:54 AM

1GB memory is still a problem for me. This new fb-dimm memory is pricey ($380 for 2GB)

3GB sounds out of balance!

Eh, 3GB isn't that out of balance when it's your best option over 1GB :)

For excercising the processors, how about downloading the BOINC client and connecting to World Community Grid and doing some genetic research? That should excercise all four coures pretty good and give you an idea of power consumption maximums.

But those numbers are really nice for a dual proc quad core system!

grouse

Aug 16, 2006, 04:05 AM

regarding the drives debate. My thinking would be to get the cheapest smallest option on the build to order Mac Pro (ie the 160GB) and then in the future save up for a second 160GB drive to fully utilise Leopard's Time Travelling thing. I suspect secondary drives are going to become crucial for that (or possibly partitions, but a second drive would be better).

Also with the advent of new disc removable disc techonologies, a really large single hard drive could actually be considered it's own bottle neck, they become messed up over time so I'd think about using the four drive bays as time progresses. One for back up/time machine, one for boot camp, etc...

I think that's gotta be the way to go.

And I can't wait.

Also regarding the iMac/Mac Pro debate. I too have been wrestling with this. The clean simplicity of the all in one solution vs being stuck with a machine that you can't upgrade. I'm still writing this on the angelpoise G4 which I will always keep as a design classic, but I can't do anything to speed it up, not a thing. And the lovely 20- inch screen is stuck in place obviously too! So if you really are weighing it up between a specced to the max iMac 20 inch and a cheap as you can get (but with at least 2GB RAM) Mac Pro, I think I'd lean towards the latter, whatever upgrades are about to hit. Don't get the Apple monitor (save money and get a better product elsewhere), get the smallest Hard drive and you can always replace or add drives/cards/possibly chips etc down the line and plump for the Mac Pro.

combatcolin

Aug 16, 2006, 01:11 PM

Just read the Andaltech review of the Mac Pro.

http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816

The overwealming feeling is that they too want a cut down version of the mac Pro.

milo

Aug 16, 2006, 01:33 PM

It is pennywise - pound foolish to buy a disk smaller than the biggest possible.

The most expensive thing on a typical computer is the disk slot - you only get a few (or one) of them. Fill the slots with small disks, and you'll soon run out of space.

You'll soon regret wasting the 90 GB or so that you saved 60 dollars on.

The "cost per GB" of a disk is nothing compared to the "cost per disk slot".

But when you run out of HD slots, you can always just dump the small HD you had originally. I'd totally recommend getting the smallest available boot drive and adding a big third party drive with the money you save, unless you plan on filling all four slots reasonably quickly.

aswitcher

Aug 16, 2006, 02:55 PM

Just read the Andaltech review of the Mac Pro.

http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816

The overwealming feeling is that they too want a cut down version of the mac Pro.

Works for me :)
A really need a media centre mac

combatcolin

Aug 16, 2006, 03:27 PM

Works for me :)
A really need a media centre mac

Greedy sod you already have a MacBook Pro.

:D

Multimedia

Aug 16, 2006, 09:25 PM

I just can't decide what to do. I feel like getting a Mac Pro (even the 2.0 GHz) is probably a bit of, but not a lot of, overkill for me. I do like a fast computer!

I find my current 1.83 GHz (Core Duo) iMac a bit slow at times. For example, if I am running FFMpegX, iSquint, and Toast all at the same time it is soooooo slow. Do you think the new iMacs will be noticeably faster, or should I just get a Mac Pro?Yes you need the 4 cores to run all those programs at once. They each want more than one core. Toast will sometimes use more than 3 cores with the Mac Pro and the new Toast 7.1 UB. Handbrake will use 2. I know because I ran tests in the Apple Store Saturday.The one downside to the Mac Pro is that it doesn't come with some of the fun stuff like the remote, isight, etc. And, the iMacs are just a cleaner set up.You can set up the remote later with a USB IR interface that is coming. Any DV camera will work like iSight only better.I'm torn. What would you do?I don't know why you are torn. Mac Pro can run much bigger monitors. Put the Mac Pro on the floor and you have plenty of space on the desktop for TWO monitors. It's a no brainer. That "sooooo slow" you experience with the iMac is telling you that you are past needing only two cores. Buy a Mac Pro. You'll never go back. :)