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MacRumors
Aug 7, 2006, 01:47 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

During Apple's Annual Worldwide Developer Conference Keynote given by Steve Jobs and a host of other Apple top executives and product managers, Phil Shiller introduced the PowerMac's Intel replacement: the Mac Pro. Advertised as having "millions" of ways to configure the machine, the base configuration includes the following:

- Dual-Dual Core 2.66 GHz Xeon 5100 Processor, upgradeable to 2xDual 3 GHz.
- 1 GB FB-DIMM RAM (2x512 MB), expandable to 16 GB
- 250 GB Hard Drive, 3 empty slots (3 Gbps SATA)
- NVidia GeForce 7300 GT (256 MB VRAM), configurable to ATI Radeon X1900 XT or Quadro FX 4500 (512 MB VRAM)
- SuperDrive (2 5.25" slots total, 1 remaining)
- 4 PCI-Express Slots (One extra-wide, taken by GPU)

Visit the Apple Store (http://www.dailytunes.com/applestore.php)

Flowbee
Aug 7, 2006, 01:49 PM
Excellent. Now it's time to wait for the sub-$2000 "Pro" desktop announcement. There's a suspicious gap in their lineup. Mac Pro Cube (http://macprocube.com), perhaps?

G5Unit
Aug 7, 2006, 01:49 PM
Finally my dad can replace his 4 year old Dell.

Glen Quagmire
Aug 7, 2006, 01:50 PM
Pretty impressive specs, aside from the fairly hopeless 7300GT graphics card.

The internal design - the hard drive slots and the memory - seems particularly well thought out.

The Mac Pro will be my next computer. Time to configure one and see how much it would cost.

macEfan
Aug 7, 2006, 01:50 PM
one word : *drools*

I want one:D

slu
Aug 7, 2006, 01:50 PM
I think this is a great update. All Quad Core and many BTO options. I am glad there are more things you can BTO now. I wish I had enough money to get one!

nagromme
Aug 7, 2006, 01:50 PM
The Mac Pros sound great... I'm getting one! I hope to wait for quads-on-one-chip (Kentsfield, due later this year) in hopes of even more cost reduction, but I already like what I see today! And I'm curious: how good are the top BTO GPU options?

A smaller case seemed likely to me, but keeping the same case and fitting more expansion bays makes good sense too. But how about a mid-range tower? The market is there, and now you can't GET a dual-core Mac with choice of GPU--it's all quads. Sounds like there's a hole in the lineup. I bet Apple fills it... but "when" is the question. A dual-core Conroe headless with upradable GPU... I think it would sell well and draw Switchers, especially if priced as nicely as the new pro machines are.

Now we enter the era of "Merom MacBook Pros next Tuesday!" rumors :p

Anything that wasn't mentioned today can still come at any time :)

slu
Aug 7, 2006, 01:51 PM
Excellent. Now it's time to wait for the sub-$2000 "Pro" desktop announcement. There's a suspicious gap in their lineup. Mac Pro Cube (http://macprocube.com), perhaps?

Keep dreaming.

balamw
Aug 7, 2006, 01:51 PM
Excellent. Now it's time to wait for the sub-$2000 "Pro" desktop announcement. There's a suspicious gap in their lineup. Mac Pro Cube (http://macprocube.com), perhaps?
Core 2 Duo (Merom/Conroe) was conspicuosly absent from this Keynote.

I too hope when the consumer lineup gets Core 2 Duo that they'll fill this gap with either a high end consumer machine or a low end pro.

B

ScubaDuc
Aug 7, 2006, 01:51 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

During Apple's Annual Worldwide Developer Conference Keynote given by Steve Jobs and a host of other Apple top executives and product managers, Phil Shiller introduced the PowerMac's Intel replacement: the Mac Pro. Advertised as having "millions" of ways to configure the machine, the base configuration includes the following:

- Dual-Dual Core 2.66 GHz Xeon 5100 Processor, upgradeable to 2xDual 3 GHz.
- 1 GB FB-DIMM RAM (2x512 MB), expandable to 16 GB
- 250 GB Hard Drive, 3 empty slots (3 Gbps SATA)
- NVidia GeForce 7300 GT (256 MB VRAM), configurable to ATI Radeon X1900 XT or Quadro FX 4500 (512 MB VRAM)
- SuperDrive (2 5.25" slots total, 1 remaining)
- 4 PCI-Express Slots (One extra-wide, taken by GPU)


I can just hear everyone moaning....NO MEROM MBP??? :eek:

Only one model of the pro.... This leaves open the door for a new, headless iMac to fill the lower end of the product range

G5Unit
Aug 7, 2006, 01:52 PM
Keep dreaming.


Perhaps for a PowerBook G5?

eric_n_dfw
Aug 7, 2006, 01:52 PM
Excellent. Now it's time to wait for the sub-$2000 "Pro" desktop announcement. There's a suspicious gap in their lineup. Mac Pro Cube (http://macprocube.com), perhaps?
I was thinking exactly the same thing. (although the Mac Pro is VERY tempting right now.)

brap
Aug 7, 2006, 01:53 PM
Suppose it'd be a bit heretic to buy one of these solely for Windows, right?

I'd not get a quad Xeon Woodcrest anywhere else for less, and my Athlon 64 just doesn't cut it...

kbonnel
Aug 7, 2006, 01:54 PM
Quite a nice update, can't wait to see the disassembly photos that are sure to come :)

Kimo

slu
Aug 7, 2006, 01:55 PM
Perhaps for a PowerBook G5?

As far as I am concerned, it is the same sort of thing really.

baleensavage
Aug 7, 2006, 01:56 PM
All I can say is Apple better be coming out with a mid-range tower. Upping the baseline of the MacPro to $2500, what is that. Sure it looks like a sweet computer, but what about small businesses or starving artists who cant afford that. Now we're stuck with the all-in-ones.

Rocketman
Aug 7, 2006, 01:58 PM
Suppose it'd be a bit heretic to buy one of these solely for Windows, right?

I'd not get a quad Xeon Woodcrest anywhere else for less, and my Athlon 64 just doesn't cut it...


I do believe that is the entire point of this WWDC06 keynote presentation. Note if you get the chaeaper, faster, nicer MacPro computer you get OSX and bundled apps "for free".

Rocketman

slu
Aug 7, 2006, 01:59 PM
All I can say is Apple better be coming out with a mid-range tower. Upping the baseline of the MacPro to $2500, what is that. Sure it looks like a sweet computer, but what about small businesses or starving artists who cant afford that. Now we're stuck with the all-in-ones.

You can configure it down in price as well you know. You can get 2.0 Ghz Xeons instead. If the store did not keep timing out on me, I'd tell you how much cheaper that would make it.

vniow
Aug 7, 2006, 02:00 PM
Upping the baseline of the MacPro to $2500, what is that.

The baseline is actually somewhere around $2100, you can lower some of the options when configuring.

iGary
Aug 7, 2006, 02:00 PM
Anyone drop one of these in their cart and press order yet?

fastlane1588
Aug 7, 2006, 02:01 PM
Now we enter the era of "Merom MacBook Pros next Tuesday!" rumors :p

Anything that wasn't mentioned today can still come at any time :)


Yea got my hopes up on the mbp cuz everyone kept makin a big fuss bout it possibly being announced today. Oh well, hopefully itll be announced soon....maybe next tuesday?

gnasher729
Aug 7, 2006, 02:01 PM
Suppose it'd be a bit heretic to buy one of these solely for Windows, right?

I'd not get a quad Xeon Woodcrest anywhere else for less, and my Athlon 64 just doesn't cut it...

If that is what you want, Apple won't mind at all if you buy a Macintosh to run Windows.

miloblithe
Aug 7, 2006, 02:01 PM
For those of you hoping for a mid-range tower, you're looking at it. Take the processor down from dual 2.66Ghz to dual 2.0 and the HD down from 250GB to 160, and you're looking at a $2124 machine.

I sincerely doubt Apple will introduce any new model to its current lineup of mini/pro, macbook/macbook pro. Your best hope is a supermini.

Object-X
Aug 7, 2006, 02:03 PM
They updated the specs of the displays too along with lowering the price.

BlizzardBomb
Aug 7, 2006, 02:04 PM
106fps in Doom 3 at high quality with the X1900 XT :eek: :eek:

What a machine! I'll have 3 to go please.

2nyRiggz
Aug 7, 2006, 02:06 PM
If I had the money....I might of float away with a maxed out Pro but knowing that I can change up things is sweet enough....exactly what I was waiting for.






Bless

baleensavage
Aug 7, 2006, 02:07 PM
The baseline is actually somewhere around $2100, you can lower some of the options when configuring.
Thats a little better, but what about having a single processor $1500 model like they used to do with the G4s? If Apple really wants to build their market share, they have to realize that people often buy PCs because they can be customized and some of those people don't want $2500 computers. Not having a customizable model in the desktop lineup that is under $2000 is a bad idea.

Glen Quagmire
Aug 7, 2006, 02:09 PM
Anyone drop one of these in their cart and press order yet?

Someone on Ars has.

I am thinking about it.

brap
Aug 7, 2006, 02:09 PM
If that is what you want, Apple won't mind at all if you buy a Macintosh to run Windows.
It's almost at the price point where the OS comes for free, so a Windows OEM install wouldn't make much of a dent on top...

It's a very tasty option if you qualify for education pricing, the dual 2GHz/160GB option tips the scales at a measly £1350 all-in. Knew there was a reason for marrying a teacher.

The final, killer point though: video cards. Presumably we don't yet know if a standard PC video card would work, right?

andiwm2003
Aug 7, 2006, 02:10 PM
Pretty impressive specs, aside from the fairly hopeless 7300GT graphics card.

The internal design - the hard drive slots and the memory - seems particularly well thought out.

The Mac Pro will be my next computer. Time to configure one and see how much it would cost.


wow, it took a full three (3) posts till somebody complains about the GPU. that seems to be the only constant thing that survived even the intel transition.:D

MacNut
Aug 7, 2006, 02:12 PM
Its about time they FINALLY hit 3ghz. This is a big step for Apple.

BlizzardBomb
Aug 7, 2006, 02:12 PM
Hmm... Cinema displays also got a bump.

20" ACD
Brightness: 250 cd/m2 -> 300 cd/m2
Contrast Ratio: 400:1 -> 700:1

23" ACD
Brightness: 270 cd/m2 -> 400 cd/m2
Contrast Ratio: 400:1 -> 700:1

kainjow
Aug 7, 2006, 02:14 PM
Hmm... Cinema displays also got a bump.

20" ACD
Brightness: 250 cd/m2 -> 300 cd/m2
Contrast Ratio: 400:1 -> 700:1

23" ACD
Brightness: 270 cd/m2 -> 400 cd/m2
Contrast Ratio: 400:1 -> 700:1
Nice find, thanks. I was hoping they'd update the displays. Now to see when my local Apple Store will have them in stock :p

Dont Hurt Me
Aug 7, 2006, 02:17 PM
Powerful system for sure but looking at this thing it seems the base unit is a workstation to me. The 7300 GPU is a $99 Gpu so I was surprised they went so low with the base graphics. Good thing you can build like you want it and they offer better GPu's but it wont be cheap. Cpu wise its kicks rear end just as its expansion now does and can hold 4 GPU's:eek: PowerMac is again a butt kicking machine. Twice as fast as old & slow quad G5 thats kind of funny. At least this gigantic tower can put things into all that space now:) There is a gigantic hole now for the user with a monitor. MacMini and ProMac......hmmmm when is the next show?

As a side note a AMD3500/6800GT combo will still hammer the base unit in Doom3:p

gnasher729
Aug 7, 2006, 02:23 PM
Just checked the Intel July price list: Prices per Woodcrest processor are $851, $690 and $316 for one chip running at 3.0, 2.66 or 2.0 GHz, that is $1702, $1380 and $632 for two processors.

Somehow I suspect that Apple pays different prices, because you save $300 if you go down to 2 GHz and you pay $800 extra for 3.0 GHz. Should be the other way round according to the Intel price list. So the 2.66 GHz is a real bargain compared to the others.

If you subtract the processors from the price, then you pay $1597, $1119 and $1567 for the three models.

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 7, 2006, 02:23 PM
Hmmmmm....
It really seems like a good time to retire my old MDD. Still, $5400 is a lot of money. (what you have to pay here in sweden with edu discount for a 2.66 MP, X1900 XT, 500Gb + 23'')
Hmmmmm... tempted, very very tempted.

Side note: I have actually considered buying it in US and sneak it back to Sweden if I just could figure out how to transport it....

Pressure
Aug 7, 2006, 02:24 PM
As a side note a AMD3500/6800GT combo will still hammer the base unit in Doom3:p

The real question, however is, who even cares about Doomed III?

I surely don't hope you buy a Mac Pro to play that awful game . . .

The base unit will hammer the AMD Athlon64 3500+ into the ground in everything else ;)

bursty
Aug 7, 2006, 02:24 PM
I absolutely cannot believe airport and bluetooth are still options on the Pros. They are standard on EVERY other model. What the hell, Apple?

BlizzardBomb
Aug 7, 2006, 02:24 PM
Just checked the Intel July price list: Prices per Woodcrest processor are $851, $690 and $316 for one chip running at 3.0, 2.66 or 2.0 GHz, that is $1702, $1380 and $632 for two processors.

Somehow I suspect that Apple pays different prices, because you save $300 if you go down to 2 GHz and you pay $800 extra for 3.0 GHz. Should be the other way round according to the Intel price list. So the 2.66 GHz is a real bargain compared to the others.

If you subtract the processors from the price, then you pay $1597, $1119 and $1567 for the three models.

It's likely that Apple get a discount off all Intel products. The Dual-dual 2.66 GHz + X1900 XT seems like the sweet spot for me :)

As a sidenote, it appears the PM G5 and XServe G5 are still available on the Apple Store.

gnasher729
Aug 7, 2006, 02:24 PM
Powerful system for sure but looking at this thing it seems the base unit is a workstation to me. The 7300 GPU is a $99 Gpu so I was surprised they went so low with the base graphics.

I think there are many people who need all the CPU power they can get, and don't need that much graphics power at all.

TedSlawski
Aug 7, 2006, 02:25 PM
Well a really fast computer at a reasonable price that you don't have to wait months for? I'm pinching myself before I make the call and order one. The idea that this could be what the original dual 2gig G5 that I (and a lot of other people) waited months for and really was kind of a ho-hum experience updating from a dual 800 quicksilver. Just playing around with a dual core iMac and being impressed says "this has got to be the one". The promise that they made for the G5 and didn't come across with. I would really like to play around with one of thses and say WOW!, not try to remember if it opened Photoshop faster than my quicksilver or not. 4 X 2.66Ghz Woodcrest—oughta do it!

aswitcher
Aug 7, 2006, 02:26 PM
Excellent. Now it's time to wait for the sub-$2000 "Pro" desktop announcement. There's a suspicious gap in their lineup. Mac Pro Cube (http://macprocube.com), perhaps?

Agreed.I was heartened to see no Core 2 duo low end for this very reason.

aswitcher
Aug 7, 2006, 02:28 PM
Hmm... Cinema displays also got a bump.

20" ACD
Brightness: 250 cd/m2 -> 300 cd/m2
Contrast Ratio: 400:1 -> 700:1

23" ACD
Brightness: 270 cd/m2 -> 400 cd/m2
Contrast Ratio: 400:1 -> 700:1

Oww.I saw the rpice drop but not the spec boost. I thought Apple was trying to clear older stock but now I think this is the new monitor and we caren't going to see one with an iSight built in. New iSight maybe...

aviationwiz
Aug 7, 2006, 02:30 PM
I just called my local Apple Store and they said they would have them in as early as just a bit later this week.

teme
Aug 7, 2006, 02:30 PM
Excellent. Now it's time to wait for the sub-$2000 "Pro" desktop announcement. There's a suspicious gap in their lineup. Mac Pro Cube (http://macprocube.com), perhaps?

I'll wait for that until Paris, and if it isn't available then, I'll buy a PC.

MacBoobsPro
Aug 7, 2006, 02:34 PM
If i stuck 4x nvidia whatchamacallit would it make any difference to gaming etc on one monitor? Or is an extra graphics card just for extra monitors?

:confused:

Glen Quagmire
Aug 7, 2006, 02:35 PM
If i stuck 4x nvidia whatchamacallit would it make any difference to gaming etc on one monitor? Or is an extra graphics card just for extra monitors?

:confused:

It's for extra monitors.

BlizzardBomb
Aug 7, 2006, 02:37 PM
I'll wait for that until Paris, and if it isn't available then, I'll buy a PC with Core 2 Duo E6600 and GeForce 7900 GT.

Mac OS X not do anything for you? :) I do agree that there is space for a Mid-range desktop.

I think if Apple just made the Mac Mini a bit bigger. They could fit in a Core 2 Duo (Conroe) inside along with a 3.5" Hard Drive and GMA X3000. The 1.86 GHz Conroe kills the Yonah Core Solo in everything and costs less than the Core Solo. A 3.5" Hard Drive is also much better in the value department. Couple this with an option for a Single-Woodcrest Mac Pro and it completely eliminates the need for a mid-range tower.

DakotaGuy
Aug 7, 2006, 02:43 PM
First of all...it seems to me they should have offered a single dual core processor model...like a single 2.6Ghz model for something like $1599. Second why do you only save $300 when you opt for the 2Ghz model but the 3Ghz model costs $800 more???

This machine would be complete overkill for me, still it is fun to see what it will do. There is a huge gap in their line up between the iMac and Mac Pro now.

Eidorian
Aug 7, 2006, 02:44 PM
The baseline is actually somewhere around $2100, you can lower some of the options when configuring.$1962 for US Education. w/2 GHz and 160 GB hard drive.

milozauckerman
Aug 7, 2006, 02:47 PM
For those of you hoping for a mid-range tower, you're looking at it. Take the processor down from dual 2.66Ghz to dual 2.0 and the HD down from 250GB to 160, and you're looking at a $2124 machine.
So if I want a mid-range tower, I can configured it to have less RAM, a smaller HD and a completely useless graphics card, and still come in $200-300 more than a comparable machine from Dell/Gateway/etc.? Why can't Apple sell me a desktop with 2GB RAM stock and a 250GB HD for less than two grand?

Yes, the Apple is a quad instead of a dual - but exactly which apps does that matter on? Is a quad really going to be a vast improvement for Photoshop through Rosetta over, say, a single Xeon or 2.4 Conroe?

All I ask for is a moderately priced OS X desktop that isn't crippled in any way (still paying for 802.11g! $350 to get a usable graphics card!).

If using Windows didn't make my eyes bleed, I'd turn and run from Apple hardware in a heartbeat. (And that, of course, is why fanboy dreams of a retail OS X package for any computer would never happen - you'd have to be a fool to use Apple hardware.)

MacBoobsPro
Aug 7, 2006, 02:52 PM
Second why do you only save $300 when you opt for the 2Ghz model but the 3Ghz model costs $800 more???


Its relative to the processor you have selected. If you clicked the lower CPU the 3Ghz would be + even more. :rolleyes:

gnasher729
Aug 7, 2006, 02:54 PM
First of all...it seems to me they should have offered a single dual core processor model...like a single 2.6Ghz model for something like $1599. Second why do you only save $300 when you opt for the 2Ghz model but the 3Ghz model costs $800 more???

The 2.66 GHz machine is a bargain. If you pick a different model, Apple will make a bit more money.

Keymaster
Aug 7, 2006, 02:54 PM
I don't understand why people are complaining about the Bluetooth and wireless not being included. These are not portables, they won't move, and in many cases professionals don't care if the keyboard is wired or want it wired for some specific reason. Wireless internet is for portable computers folks, not a big hunk of aluminum that will sit on the floor or desk permanently. Wired is also still faster than wireless...if you are in a networked office environment that can make a massive difference.

Tight.E.Whitey
Aug 7, 2006, 02:55 PM
I want to get one TODAY, I've been waiting since April for this. I wonder if they're available in the phyiscal apple stores. Someone else said their local apple store won't have them till later this week... but I live in NYC, so I could go to flagship 5th Ave. store, maybe they're more likely to have it today. I guess I'll have to break down and give them a call (as if they haven't already had 5,000 calls today asking the exact same question).

UmaThurman
Aug 7, 2006, 02:56 PM
SO in the Paris expo is where we'll most likely see updated MBP? :confused:

LaMerVipere
Aug 7, 2006, 02:56 PM
LAME

• $2,499 standard price of Mac Pro ($2,299 for Education)

——$2,124 is the lowest you can configure the Mac Pro ($1,962 for Education)

———To get it that low, you have to drop the processors from 2.66GHz to 2GHz and and the hard drive from 250GB to 160GB

• Airport Extreme & Bluetooth 2.0 still not standard

• Weak graphics card standard (GeForce 7300, ugh)

and as a sidenote:

• MacBook Pro & MacBook processors untouched

• iMac untouched

• iPod product line grows more stale by the day

BlizzardBomb
Aug 7, 2006, 02:57 PM
So if I want a mid-range tower, I can configured it to have less RAM, a smaller HD and a completely useless graphics card, and still come in $200-300 more than a comparable machine from Dell/Gateway/etc.? Why can't Apple sell me a desktop with 2GB RAM stock and a 250GB HD for less than two grand?

Yes, the Apple is a quad instead of a dual - but exactly which apps does that matter on? Is a quad really going to be a vast improvement for Photoshop through Rosetta over, say, a single Xeon or 2.4 Conroe?

We'll have to wait for some benchmarks, but I'm willing to bet that Photoshop even under Rosetta will be phenomenal.

All I ask for is a moderately priced OS X desktop that isn't crippled in any way (still paying for 802.11g! $350 to get a usable graphics card!).

Some people may not use wireless, this stamps down on prices. As for the graphics card, you have to realize not all professionals need a super-duper chip. Lots of professional apps are more processor intensive then anything.

SO in the Paris expo is where we'll most likely see updated MBP?

Yes, highly likely. Probably along with the Mac Mini, MacBook, iMac and iPod.

SteveRichardson
Aug 7, 2006, 02:58 PM
Yea okay so I'm leaving for Chicago on the 22nd of this month for school and I really wanted to get a MBP with merom before then.

boooo I'll have to settle for the current chips, which I'm sure are great anyway.

killr_b
Aug 7, 2006, 03:00 PM
Just ordered my Mac Pro!! :D

Quad 3Ghz, 4GB ram, 250GB HD + 500 GB HD, X1900 XT 512MB, Bluetooth+Airport, wireless keyboard and mouse, 1 Superdrive (holding out for BluRay) 30" ACD... $8264.23 :eek:
Estimated Ship Time... 3- 5 Weeks :eek: :eek:

This is gonna be good.

bursty
Aug 7, 2006, 03:04 PM
I don't understand why people are complaining about the Bluetooth and wireless not being included. These are not portables, they won't move, and in many cases professionals don't care if the keyboard is wired or want it wired for some specific reason. Wireless internet is for portable computers folks, not a big hunk of aluminum that will sit on the floor or desk permanently. Wired is also still faster than wireless...if you are in a networked office environment that can make a massive difference.
My house is not wired for ethernet. Which means, I would have to snake a wire through 3 floors, drill holes in the ceiling, etc etc. Its sooo much easier just to have airport. I have 3meg internet service and I cannot tell a difference between wired and wifi. My wireless will hit ~10mb/s transfer if I'm moving a large file from one computer to another. Obviously, that 10mb/s is faster then my 3meg internet service. My internet service is the bottleneck, not the wireless. Therefore....no difference in speed.

Second, I have BT keyboard, mouse, and phone. I use BT all the time. Sure, I can just order the option. However, that means I cant just run to my local apple store and pick up a Mac Pro. Its absolute crap that a ~$600 Macmini has these options standard, and yet Apples $4000 top of the line machine doesnt. Unacceptable.

milozauckerman
Aug 7, 2006, 03:09 PM
We'll have to wait for some benchmarks, but I'm willing to bet that Photoshop even under Rosetta will be phenomenal.
Core 2 chips by themself should be very good, but I'm talking single Core 2 vs. dual Core 2 - is the Quad capability going to matter with Rosetta?

I don't know anyone who doesn't use wireless of some kind now - there are three wireless networks that I can pick up from this desk. People either don't want to run cable from their cable/DSL outlet to a desk/modem, or they have multiple machines, or what have you. 802.11g should be standard on every machine, not a $40 charge.

Bluetooth, sure. I'll order it for future-proofing, but I don't use it at all. (For one thing, if your Mac craps out, you need a USB keyboard to boot it and figure out the problem), I can understand making that an option.

Graphics - sorry, this is just inexcusable to me. Apple isn't just selling these to developers and press-ganged media workers - they're selling them to 'small business' creative types and as personal PCs and (hopefully, one would think) as alternatives to Dell and Gateway machines for the common user. A decent graphics card is a must.

gugy
Aug 7, 2006, 03:09 PM
Nice machine indeed.
Good job Apple.
I would buy one in a heartbeat with Adobe apps were universal. Oh well, just wait for next year. Plus is always safe to get the rev.b for this Intel MacPro.

Love Leopard!
More things coming next week?

DakotaGuy
Aug 7, 2006, 03:11 PM
LAME
• MacBook Pro & MacBook processors untouched


Maybe they want to make sure all of the issues with the Core Duo models are resolved before they begin a processor switch on those models.

After some of the things that popped up on the MacBook and MacBook Pro, I think they will take a bit more time before they launch the revision to make sure it is perfect.

slu
Aug 7, 2006, 03:12 PM
Why can't Apple sell me a desktop with 2GB RAM stock and a 250GB HD for less than two grand?


They can. It is called an iMac, and the 17 incher with 2 GB of RAM and a 25o GB HDD goes for $1674.00

GFLPraxis
Aug 7, 2006, 03:12 PM
LAME

• $2,499 standard price of Mac Pro ($2,299 for Education)

——$2,124 is the lowest you can configure the Mac Pro ($1,962 for Education)

———To get it that low, you have to drop the processors from 2.66GHz to 2GHz and and the hard drive from 250GB to 160GB


It's still a QUAD at $2,124. Even if it's 2 GHz, that's still utterly insane, especially when a *single* 2 GHz Woodcrest outperforms a 3.5 GHz Pentium 4 easily IIRC.


and as a sidenote:

• MacBook Pro & MacBook processors untouched

• iMac untouched

• iPod product line grows more stale by the day


The lack of iMac updates was my greatest disappointment.

wildmac
Aug 7, 2006, 03:13 PM
LAME

• $2,499 standard price of Mac Pro ($2,299 for Education)

——$2,124 is the lowest you can configure the Mac Pro ($1,962 for Education)

———To get it that low, you have to drop the processors from 2.66GHz to 2GHz and and the hard drive from 250GB to 160GB

• Airport Extreme & Bluetooth 2.0 still not standard

• Weak graphics card standard (GeForce 7300, ugh)

and as a sidenote:

• MacBook Pro & MacBook processors untouched

• iMac untouched

• iPod product line grows more stale by the day

ITS A DEVELOPERS CONFERENCE !!!!!!!!!! NOT A GIVE-THE-WHINY-CONSUMERS-EVERYTHING-THEY-WANT-MACWORLD-CONFERENCE!!!!!!!!

Give it a rest!!!!

Do you really need a new #%&$*%^& iPod?...

Do you wnat a CPU update in your laptop weekly?...

sheesh!!!!

go buy a Dell and enjoy!!!!

shelterpaw
Aug 7, 2006, 03:13 PM
My house is not wired for ethernet. Which means, I would have to snake a wire through 3 floors, drill holes in the ceiling, etc etc. Its sooo much easier just to have airport. I have 3meg internet service and I cannot tell a difference between wired and wifi. My wireless will hit ~10mb/s transfer if I'm moving a large file from one computer to another. Obviously, that 10mb/s is faster then my 3meg internet service. My internet service is the bottleneck, not the wireless. Therefore....no difference in speed.

Second, I have BT keyboard, mouse, and phone. I use BT all the time. Sure, I can just order the option. However, that means I cant just run to my local apple store and pick up a Mac Pro. Its absolute crap that a ~$600 Macmini has these options standard, and yet Apples $4000 top of the line machine doesnt. Unacceptable.
I couldn't agree with you more. I'm almost in the exact same situation you're in and it doesn't make sense to me either. I've always felt the pro machine should incorporate everything a consumer model carries, plus pro features.

However, they're still pretty slick machines and I'm looking forward to getting one.

bradc
Aug 7, 2006, 03:15 PM
Just ordered my Mac Pro!! :D

Quad 3Ghz, 4GB ram, 250GB HD + 500 GB HD, X1900 XT 512MB, Bluetooth+Airport, wireless keyboard and mouse, 1 Superdrive (holding out for BluRay) 30" ACD... $8264.23 :eek:
Estimated Ship Time... 3- 5 Weeks :eek: :eek:

This is gonna be good.


I went Quad 3Ghz, 1GB Ram, 160GB HD, X1900XT, Bluetooth and Fibre-Channel, 2-Superdrives. Then I'll buy more RAM and a bigger hd when it gets here. I am sooooooooo pumped!

gugy
Aug 7, 2006, 03:15 PM
on the Macrumors live feed Steve said new announcements coming in the week or next week. Any comments?

mrblah
Aug 7, 2006, 03:17 PM
My god thats an expensive computer. It seems like they went all out to try and make the most expensive computer possible. You HAVE to buy a quad Xeon desktop? Why? Some people need a tower for its PCI slots but dont want or need a quad Xeon setup. Cant they release a model that uses a regular processor like a Pentium 4 or whatever and price it for like $1000 cheaper? I guess Apple will continue to leave us middle-end users out in the cold. Mac Minis suck, iMacs dont meet the needs of a lot of people thanks to no PCI slots, Mac Pros only come with a quad Xeon(!?) and well set you back more than a used Honda Accord. Apple went WAY overboard with this thing without offering anything to fill in the gap between iMac and Mac Pro. Freakin hell.

UmaThurman
Aug 7, 2006, 03:17 PM
Ugh, I know people said this alot too, but I have to go to school next week without a laptop now. But oh well, it'll be worth it once they release them, hopefully in the paris expo. Do you think there'll be a huge diff b/w MBP and MB? I'll be using it just for everyday use, and if they both came out at the same time that'd be so sweet. I'd def go for the MB.

Bonte
Aug 7, 2006, 03:20 PM
wow, it took a full three (3) posts till somebody complains about the GPU. that seems to be the only constant thing that survived even the intel transition.:D

Are these specific Mac GPU's with Mac roms or can we finally use a selection of PC GPU's? If so then the base GPU isn't an issue, just use it for the second screen.

MacVault
Aug 7, 2006, 03:23 PM
I read a comment on Maccentral from someone saying they were going to wait for a "true" dual processor. What is not true about the Mac Pro configuration? Or did that poster not know what he was talking about?

shelterpaw
Aug 7, 2006, 03:24 PM
I went Quad 3Ghz, 1GB Ram, 160GB HD, X1900XT, Bluetooth and Fibre-Channel, 2-Superdrives. Then I'll buy more RAM and a bigger hd when it gets here. I am sooooooooo pumped!Nice!!! Most likely you made a wise decision to purchase your addional RAM and HD from a third party. Apple requires arms and legs for their optional upgrades. ;)

macten
Aug 7, 2006, 03:26 PM
on the Macrumors live feed Steve said new announcements coming in the week or next week. Any comments?


Tomorrow is Tuesday.... :o

killr_b
Aug 7, 2006, 03:27 PM
Nice!!! Most likely you made a wise decision to purchase your addional RAM and HD from a third party. Apple requires arms and legs for their optional upgrades. ;)


I like it to show up ready to go.

Plus, I know for sure the apple chosen ram will be flawless...
This is a rev. A. ;)

nsjoker
Aug 7, 2006, 03:27 PM
106fps in Doom 3 at high quality with the X1900 XT :eek: :eek:

What a machine! I'll have 3 to go please.

http://gear.ign.com/articles/721/721902p2.html

alienware, less expensive, 222 fps :D
granted no os x though so i understand.

maxp1
Aug 7, 2006, 03:28 PM
I thought the Woodcrest processors were unsuited for multi-processor configurations. Anyone with more info?

RedTomato
Aug 7, 2006, 03:28 PM
Apple's newest and greatest always has high prices, then they will come down.

With the Gx range, this didn't happen as IBM rarely changed their prices.

Welcome to the new Intel world where prices change on a monthly basis.

Remember when the Mac Mini were introduced?

First they were quite expensive, then prices came down within a few weeks.

I can't remember when the next Intel price drop is expected - someone tell us please? (probably in about 2 or 3 months time - Octoberish.)

milozauckerman
Aug 7, 2006, 03:28 PM
Can anyone tell what the holdups are on Mac Pros? Both the X1900 and bluetooth/airport seem to take it from 3-5 days up to 2-5 weeks.

LBmacman
Aug 7, 2006, 03:29 PM
Damn thats a lot of power. The 2.66 model seems to be the best deal. :)

zero2dash
Aug 7, 2006, 03:30 PM
I'm excited but disappointed at the same time.

It's nice to see some of the things they're incorporating into Leopard, and it's great to finally see a physical MacPro and read a spec sheet. You get a lot of processing power for the money, no doubt.

On the flipside -
the base video card is pretty meh. Additional HD options are ridiculously limited; you can only add 500g ones (no 250) for 2nd/3rd/4th HD. Base price on the dual 2.6 is..ok I guess. I join many others when I say I was hoping for lower cost but we'll see if they deliver a high end iMac with a Core 2 in the next few months.

Congrats to all the early adopters; I'm envious. :)
But I think the waiting game is best, even though it sucks. Then again I don't have the necessary funds so it's excusable. I'll be waiting til next year around the time Leopard launches I think and then I'll buy...mmm something. :D (Depends on what these are going for and also if we see any Core 2 iMacs.)

All in all though, way to go Apple...you've got yourself another customer. I can't wait to be able to use some of the new features in Leopard.

Thataboy
Aug 7, 2006, 03:30 PM
There are many of you I want to beat with a spiky stick right now. Let's consolidate you into one bullet-point list of whiners:


How could they not include Airport/Bluetooth? Screw you Apple, I'm going (to Win XP) home!
How could they not release a low-end non-pro Mac Pro? That's it! I'm getting a Fujitsu!!
How could WWDC be so lame?? I can't believe they didn't release an iPhone and new iPod! Don't these rumor sites verify their information with Apple first?? To hell with Macs, I'm Ubunting!


A bunch of wankers.

1. You are going to spend thousands on a Mac PRO and you are going to pitch a fit over adding wireless for less than 80 bucks? Guess what, these are PROFESSIONAL WORKSTATIONS, not consumer internet computers. The target demographic of these computers is a wired-network setting. Obviously home users and others may have use for wireless in a Mac Pro, so that's why Apple OFFERS IT.

2. What applications do you need that a Mac Mini Core Duo can't handle? Oh, games? Why in the sweet baby Jesus' name are you on MACrumors if you're a gamer? Apple cedes your kind to Dellienware. Go. Shoo. Leave the grownups alone. Some people want a "configurable" computer even though they will never have any need to configure anything (besides RAM). Niche of a niche. If you're such a geek that you want all the PCI express slots and hard drive bays and dual optical drives, get a newspaper route and bloody buy a Mac Pro. If Apple decides to release a Mac Cube, you'll be the first to know, pinky swear!

3. WWDC. D. C. ****D**** If you thought an iPhone was coming, you are certifiable.


From what I am reading, the Mac Pro seems to be the most mind-numbingly excellent computer and value to ever come out of Apple. Huge triumph. I can't wait to play with one in the stores.

And to those of you who so desperately want snazzy new consumer products, you'll always have Paris.

jonharris200
Aug 7, 2006, 03:30 PM
on the Macrumors live feed Steve said new announcements coming in the week or next week. Any comments?
Yeah, at 10.24am on the MRL feed, though it was slightly ambiguous. Engadget also picked up on this but gave more detail - it's new universal applications that are being announced this week:

10:24AM - "We had a sixth major release that we don't get much credit for. Tiger on Intel. Porting an OS is is no easy task. And our software team did a great job. They made it look really easy which has enabled this amazing transition. 86 million lines of source code that was ported to run on an entirely new architecture with zero hiccups. Along the way, we created a way to run universal applications that run on PowerPC and Intel. I'm pleased to report that there are more than 3,000 universal applications and we at Apple would like to say, thank you, thank you guys. "You guys have done a phenomenal job and there are a lot more being announced at the developer conference this week."

spicyapple
Aug 7, 2006, 03:30 PM
• Weak graphics card standard (GeForce 7300, ugh)
Is the GeForce 7300 better than the GeForce 6800 that was the high-end option with the PowerMac when Steve introduced the 30" Cinema Display?

If so, I'm really behind on the times. :o

shelterpaw
Aug 7, 2006, 03:32 PM
I like it to show up ready to go.

Plus, I know for sure the apple chosen ram will be flawless...
This is a rev. A. ;)I wasn't trying to put a digg on you, you're machine is awesome, but not everyone can put down the amount of money you did and aftermarket helps. But you're super stoked nonethelss. :D

JAT
Aug 7, 2006, 03:32 PM
Its absolute crap that a ~$600 Macmini has these options standard, and yet Apples $4000 top of the line machine doesnt. Unacceptable.
No, it means that the base Mini would be $530 instead of $600 if wireless wasn't standard. And the base Mac Pro would be $2570 instead of $2500 if it did. At least you have the choice on the Pro.

relimw
Aug 7, 2006, 03:34 PM
Anyone drop one of these in their cart and press order yet?
Yup :)
Dual 3Ghz, 4GB ram, bluetooth/airport, everything else stock.

Yum. :)

nagromme
Aug 7, 2006, 03:35 PM
Where are the wireless antennas on the new towers? No longer external, apparently?


LAME

• $2,499 standard price of Mac Pro ($2,299 for Education)

——$2,124 is the lowest you can configure the Mac Pro ($1,962 for Education)
And even without edu discount, still $1000 cheaper than a comparable Dell. Lame. ;)


I read a comment on Maccentral from someone saying they were going to wait for a "true" dual processor. What is not true about the Mac Pro configuration? Or did that poster not know what he was talking about?
It's two chips, each a dual... maybe the person meant they're waiting (as am I possibly) for "true quads," meaning 4 CPUs on one chip? That's expected (Kentsfield) by the end of the year. (But then after that, an even "truer" quad chip is expected :p ) Anyway, the benefit of 4-on-1-chip with Kentsfield may be mainly one of price. Which is enough to make me consider waiting, however.


There are many of you I want to beat with a spiky stick right now. Let's consolidate you into one bullet-point list of whiners:


How could they not include Airport/Bluetooth? Screw you Apple, I'm going (to Win XP) home!
How could they not release a low-end non-pro Mac Pro? That's it! I'm getting a Fujitsu!!
How could WWDC be so lame?? I can't believe they didn't release an iPhone and new iPod! Don't these rumor sites verify their information with Apple first?? To hell with Macs, I'm Ubunting!

A reasonable summation :p

tonyl
Aug 7, 2006, 03:36 PM
$1962 for US Education. w/2 GHz and 160 GB hard drive.
A 2.66GHz CPU is about $400 more expensive than a 2.0GHz, BTO only takes $300 off, so the base config is the best choice. There is a gap, no single processor mac pro, not like Apple's sale strategy. Either Cornore mac pro or iMac will be great.

jonharris200
Aug 7, 2006, 03:36 PM
No iMac update (but added expectation of one with the pro-sumer-sized 'gap' people have commented on) is good news for my wallet and my patience. :rolleyes:

milozauckerman
Aug 7, 2006, 03:36 PM
1. You are going to spend thousands on a Mac PRO and you are going to pitch a fit over adding wireless for less than 80 bucks?
Yes. I bought a work truck for $15000 and made them give me a $100 bedliner free. The amount I'm spending has nothing to do with my desire to extract the most value for myself.

Apple ain't a charity, I want every last penny I can squeeze from our transactions.

Guess what, these are PROFESSIONAL WORKSTATIONS, not consumer internet computers. The target demographic of these computers is a wired-network setting. Obviously home users and others may have use for wireless in a Mac Pro, so that's why Apple OFFERS IT.
These are PROFESSIONAL WORKSTATIONS that LOOK an awful lot like DESKTOP COMPUTERS shockingly enough.

I hear you can even buy one if you've never worked in an office.

I hear Apple's popular among 'creative types' who might work independently, even from home.

tokevino
Aug 7, 2006, 03:37 PM
A 2.66GHz CPU is about $400 more expensive than a 2.0GHz, BTO only takes $300 off, so the base config is the best choice. There is a gap, no single processor mac pro, not like Apple's sale strategy. Either Cornore mac pro or iMac will be great.


No, it's "TWO 2.66GHz CPUs are about $800 more expensive than TWO 2.0GHz.....".

MacBoobsPro
Aug 7, 2006, 03:39 PM
LAME

• $2,499 standard price of Mac Pro ($2,299 for Education)

——$2,124 is the lowest you can configure the Mac Pro ($1,962 for Education)

———To get it that low, you have to drop the processors from 2.66GHz to 2GHz and and the hard drive from 250GB to 160GB

• Airport Extreme & Bluetooth 2.0 still not standard

• Weak graphics card standard (GeForce 7300, ugh)

and as a sidenote:

• MacBook Pro & MacBook processors untouched

• iMac untouched

• iPod product line grows more stale by the day

It was WWDC not MacWorld you know?

tonyl
Aug 7, 2006, 03:41 PM
No, it's "TWO 2.66GHz CPUs are about $800 more expensive than TWO 2.0GHz.....".

That's what I'm saying, $400x2=$800-$300=$500 profit for Apple, That's wonderful for Apple.

MacsRgr8
Aug 7, 2006, 03:42 PM
It's still a QUAD at $2,124. Even if it's 2 GHz, that's still utterly insane, especially when a *single* 2 GHz Woodcrest outperforms a 3.5 GHz Pentium 4 easily IIRC.


That is information what I am waiting for before calling it lame or excellent...

Another problem IMHO is that you now must buy a Quad config, if you want 2 HD's or a good grfx card.

Many people will pay for the 3rd and 4th core without ever using it.

I think Apple could have done with a Dual Core config (Conroe) as low-end Mac Pro machine: give the buyer the expansibility of a Pro machine, but keep the price in a pro-sumer level.

I wonder how much faster the Quad 2.66 really is than a Quad 2.5 GHz G5. Something tells me that Apple is usually rather positive regarding the new machines.... ;)

teme
Aug 7, 2006, 03:45 PM
2. What applications do you need that a Mac Mini Core Duo can't handle? Oh, games? Why in the sweet baby Jesus' name are you on MACrumors if you're a gamer? Apple cedes your kind to Dellienware. Go. Shoo. Leave the grownups alone.

Here's other point of view: I want to use OSX in everyday use (Safari, Mail, iTunes, graphic design, Dreamweaver etc... and OSX overall). But sometimes I want to play games too, and it's awesome that nowadays it's possible to boot into Windows and play games there and then boot back into OSX. Are you saying that Apple should totally forget all users who would like to use OSX but occasionally play games on Windows, and let them buy PCs? Most of the gamers do not use their computer ONLY to play games. Consumer tower would be good for Apple to get new switchers and get more marketshare.

JAT
Aug 7, 2006, 03:45 PM
There are many of you I want to beat with a spiky stick right now. Let's consolidate you into one bullet-point list of whiners:


How could they not include Airport/Bluetooth? Screw you Apple, I'm going (to Win XP) home!
How could they not release a low-end non-pro Mac Pro? That's it! I'm getting a Fujitsu!!
How could WWDC be so lame?? I can't believe they didn't release an iPhone and new iPod! Don't these rumor sites verify their information with Apple first?? To hell with Macs, I'm Ubunting!


A bunch of wankers.

1. You are going to spend thousands on a Mac PRO and you are going to pitch a fit over adding wireless for less than 80 bucks? Guess what, these are PROFESSIONAL WORKSTATIONS, not consumer internet computers. The target demographic of these computers is a wired-network setting. Obviously home users and others may have use for wireless in a Mac Pro, so that's why Apple OFFERS IT.

2. What applications do you need that a Mac Mini Core Duo can't handle? Oh, games? Why in the sweet baby Jesus' name are you on MACrumors if you're a gamer? Apple cedes your kind to Dellienware. Go. Shoo. Leave the grownups alone. Some people want a "configurable" computer even though they will never have any need to configure anything (besides RAM). Niche of a niche. If you're such a geek that you want all the PCI express slots and hard drive bays and dual optical drives, get a newspaper route and bloody buy a Mac Pro. If Apple decides to release a Mac Cube, you'll be the first to know, pinky swear!

3. WWDC. D. C. ****D**** If you thought an iPhone was coming, you are certifiable.


From what I am reading, the Mac Pro seems to be the most mind-numbingly excellent computer and value to ever come out of Apple. Huge triumph. I can't wait to play with one in the stores.

And to those of you who so desperately want snazzy new consumer products, you'll always have Paris.
Sorry, I was only going to quote the relevant parts...but they're all relevant. And need to be repeated.

Spiky, cool....that's my nick everywhere else but here. Couldn't help but think of Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion.
Dellienware. :D Ugly + Ugly = Ugly

Although, the Macbook does compete for the "most mind-numbingly excellent computer and value to ever come out of Apple."

tokevino
Aug 7, 2006, 03:46 PM
That's what I'm saying, $400x2=$800-$300=$500 profit for Apple, That's wonderful for Apple.

On the other hand, internal pricing from Intel can be VERY different. So don't let it get too much into your head.

Bottom line, these quads are truly wonderful machines to buy.

Dont Hurt Me
Aug 7, 2006, 03:47 PM
The old Macfanclub hating the gamer , we have heard it before. There isnt any reason Macs cant game. You buy a thousand or two thousand machine it should be able to game. Mini cant.............Powermac is pure Overkill workstation. A gigantic hole for sure. Here's to the Mac gamers ! Its folks like you that have kept the fun in Mac :D Work Sucks:) edit in response to thataboy

tokevino
Aug 7, 2006, 03:47 PM
Here's other point of view: I want to use OSX in everyday use (Safari, Mail, iTunes, graphic design, Dreamweaver etc... and OSX overall). But sometimes I want to play games too, and it's awesome that nowadays it's possible to boot into Windows and play games there and then boot back into OSX. Are you saying that Apple should totally forget all users who would like to use OSX but occasionally play games on Windows, and let them buy PCs? Most of the gamers do not use their computer ONLY to play games. Consumer tower would be good for Apple to get new switchers and get more marketshare.


Bootcamp, how could you possibly miss that?!

jaydub
Aug 7, 2006, 03:48 PM
I, for one, am glad there wasn't an update to the MacBook Pro.

As for the Mac Pro, I am really impressed with everything except the video card. I haven't got the means to get one anytime soon since I just bought my MBP, but it's a great machine. The internals are really great looking. :cool:

tokevino
Aug 7, 2006, 03:49 PM
wwdc 2006 video is up now!

treysmay
Aug 7, 2006, 03:50 PM
friggin canada store isn't up yet. I want to know the canadian damn prices!!

treysmay
Aug 7, 2006, 03:50 PM
link?

tokevino
Aug 7, 2006, 03:51 PM
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/wwdc06

gugy
Aug 7, 2006, 03:53 PM
wwdc 2006 video is up now!


good man!

ImAlwaysRight
Aug 7, 2006, 03:57 PM
ITS A DEVELOPERS CONFERENCE !!!!!!!!!! NOT A GIVE-THE-WHINY-CONSUMERS-EVERYTHING-THEY-WANT-MACWORLD-CONFERENCE!!!!!!!!

Give it a rest!!!!

Do you really need a new #%&$*%^& iPod?...

Do you wnat a CPU update in your laptop weekly?...

sheesh!!!!

go buy a Dell and enjoy!!!!

And MacRumors.com is primarily a website populated by consumers, not developers. So now you know why at least. :o

treysmay
Aug 7, 2006, 04:00 PM
no frontrow?

scu
Aug 7, 2006, 04:00 PM
The last rumor I had read stated we would not see these machines for 5 or 6 weeks. They are available today. Glad we went to Intel.

Apple should sell a ton of these since there are those who waited for the Intel chips in the desktops. Once Photoshop comes out with the Intel version the transition is complete.

I was hoping to see some new displays but the drop in price was good news never the less.

By this time next year AAPL should be worth double:)

nagromme
Aug 7, 2006, 04:01 PM
Here's other point of view: I want to use OSX in everyday use (Safari, Mail, iTunes, graphic design, Dreamweaver etc... and OSX overall). But sometimes I want to play games too, and it's awesome that nowadays it's possible to boot into Windows and play games there and then boot back into OSX. Are you saying that Apple should totally forget all users who would like to use OSX but occasionally play games on Windows, and let them buy PCs? Most of the gamers do not use their computer ONLY to play games. Consumer tower would be good for Apple to get new switchers and get more marketshare.
I agree 100%. And I'll go one further: not only do I want to have ONE machine for work and play--a Mac--but I don't want to have to reboot, NOR buy a license for Windows :)

I've been buying Mac games and will continue to--and games are a big motivator for me to buy new Macs.

I don't think Apple will ignore the sub-Mac-Pro headless market forever. I think something is coming to fill the gap. I just don't know when :)

ElGringo
Aug 7, 2006, 04:01 PM
You know, I bought a dual core 2.0 G5 PowerMac a bit back for the ability to expand as needed. Since then I have added a second hard drive and NOT ONE PCIe card. Why? Because NO ONE out there makes a PCIe USB expansion card that is compatible with Deep Sleep Mode.

Maybe the new Mac Pro's will usher in some better options in this area. I don't want hubs and the subsequent extra wall warts that go with it. I want more USB prots, not more wall warts.

How long has PCIe been around in the PowerMac's and now Mac Pro's and there still isn't a solution for this????

Anyway, a bit of a sidetrack, but the new Mac Pro's do look sweet!!

shompa
Aug 7, 2006, 04:05 PM
Anyone drop one of these in their cart and press order yet?
Yepp.

Did order a quad 3gzh.

Estimated delivery date 11 september :(.

I wanted this to be the ultimate computer.
But no!

No SLI grafik.
Not even drivers for a Nvidia 7950 card.

If it had it, it would also be a good windows gaming computer.

Also, no Creative audio card.

So I still need a playstationsWindows and a work computer.
:(

wildmac
Aug 7, 2006, 04:07 PM
I'm excited but disappointed at the same time.
the base video card is pretty meh.

The need a low-end option for those that aren't doing PS, Doom, or 3-D rendering...

Keebler
Aug 7, 2006, 04:08 PM
love it love it love it...wish i had some cash for i would plunk it down on a new one right now.

love the 4 bay internal HDs...very sweet. cost savings right there of not buying externals

processors cool

2 opticals...very nice...shows expandability to bluray in the future and/or another dvd burner.

i see posts, yet again, screaming for a mid range tower and then they argue for mid range pcs. for the price of the 2.0 processors, you can get a mac pro for just over 2 Gs.

what people quickly...so very quickly seem to forget are the intangibles such as:

increased workflow - how anyone could possibly argue that working on windows xp is faster than os x is beyond me. colour coded folders and items; expose; spotlight; drop and dragging items etc.. etc.. etc..

stability - no crashes...things run very smooth compared to a peecee world.

for anybody working on these machines, these 2 factors are HUGE. saved time = saved money = more projects done = more billable hours

i can't understand why graphic designers/ video and photo folks would want to work on a pc.. macs are the way to go.

these are intangibles which allow me to work faster, which saves me money. unfortunately, there is no up front cost associated for these so when ppl start looking at a 'lack of mid range'...they forget the additional savings and VALUE which you could say are 'built in'.

wrt to the gaming issue, from what i understand, macs are great for gaming. personally, i wouldn't own a personal computer for just one thing. that sounds pretty darn silly. i'd like it to be multi-functional. if anyone has the cash to have a machine just for gaming, they could surely afford a mac then b/c they must have some cash...

gnasher729
Aug 7, 2006, 04:12 PM
I thought the Woodcrest processors were unsuited for multi-processor configurations. Anyone with more info?

You got the exactly the wrong way round. Conroe can only be used in single chip/dual core configurations, Woodcrest allows dual chip/quad core.

whatever
Aug 7, 2006, 04:12 PM
All I can say is Apple better be coming out with a mid-range tower. Upping the baseline of the MacPro to $2500, what is that. Sure it looks like a sweet computer, but what about small businesses or starving artists who cant afford that. Now we're stuck with the all-in-ones.
A small business that can't afford the low end MacPro at $2,124.00 should really take a good look at there business plan (it sounds more like a hobby than a business). A starving artist should invest their money on developing some new skills, so that they're not starving (I guess art just isn't it for them).

These a PRO machines! If you can't afford them, then you should be looking at the iMac, a Mac Mini or shopping on eBay for a used computer.

The price points are perfect.

And for those people still whining about a mini-tower I have a suggestion for you. Try holding your breath until the announcement. That way we won't have to hear from you any more.

I'm just wondering why adding an Airport or a different video card changes the estimate ship time from 3 to 5 business days to 3 to 5 weeks. Does it really take that long to open a box?

glassbathroom
Aug 7, 2006, 04:15 PM
Just ordered a 3.0 GHz Mac Pro.

I didn't bother with the Airport Card as this seemed to make the order time jump to 3-5 weeks! Estimated ship date - 14th August.

Loge
Aug 7, 2006, 04:16 PM
SO in the Paris expo is where we'll most likely see updated MBP? :confused:

They don't need a special event for what will most likely just be an updated processor.

shompa
Aug 7, 2006, 04:18 PM
Nice!!! Most likely you made a wise decision to purchase your addional RAM and HD from a third party. Apple requires arms and legs for their optional upgrades. ;)

FB Dimms ECC are really expensive.

Anyone knows where to get them cheaper?

I plan to use 4 gig FBdimm 4x1024
and 4 750 gig disks.

Then Bittorrent wont be slow!

Dont Hurt Me
Aug 7, 2006, 04:18 PM
ProMac is a workstation, Consumer is still king though and I suspect something new the next few months because Mini aint enough and ProMac is a beast. Still waiting for my Cube Jobs:D

Keebler
Aug 7, 2006, 04:22 PM
Heres a funny idea, dont put words in peoples mouths. Why do you just assume people dont want a mini because they want to play games? And who the hell do you think you are thinking people want PCI slots only to never use them? Instead of acting like some rich pompous ass you could actually listen to what people need and not assume things based on your secluded little fantasy world where everything is wrong unless it revolves around you. There are a lot of 2D designers/artists, iMacs are not suffecient for obvious reasons and Mac Minis arent either, a Mac Pro is their only option and its a HUGE waste of power and money. Anyone who thinks a quad Xeon will somehow help a 2D worker in Photoshop is an idiot, Photoshop/Illustrator has been absolutely fine for years as long as you have enough ram. The fact is that Apple gave no option for a reasonable proffessional computer, they only gave us an extravagent workstation more suited for professional 3D and video editting. Why the hell should people have to pay several hundred dollars more for things they wont use? Before you run your mouth you need to think about what OTHER people need rather than whatever grand delusions youve come up with about yourself.


i completely disagree that it's a waste of money for 2d folks.

stability and increased speed of workflow...ie. being able to do things faster and smarter, saves ppl time and that means saves them money and helps them earn more. anyone in that biz, who doesn't want to spend a couple of extra hundred dollars for those reasons which unfortunately don't have an 'upfront' price tag, should rethink their career path.

i can't put a number to it, but i know i save plenty of time working on my macs compared to my pc. things just work faster, smarter and they rarely crash on my macs. now, when i work on my pc...i scream at it..."Why won't you do this!!!! or that!!!! or i hit the wrong keys expecting expose to kick in...instead of i have to click a window there..and there.. etc. .etc..

those are intangibles which people forget. they are truly important.

Multimedia
Aug 7, 2006, 04:23 PM
Not really significantly faster than the G5 Quad. Maybe 50% faster at best. As owner of a Quad G5 my motivation would be more about the 6 bays and the FW 800 and extra USB 2 port on the front than the speed. :) Not worth the extra money to go 3GHz - 33% more money for 12% more speed doesn't make economic sense. Need 8 cores inside.

shompa
Aug 7, 2006, 04:23 PM
Are these specific Mac GPU's with Mac roms or can we finally use a selection of PC GPU's? If so then the base GPU isn't an issue, just use it for the second screen.

what will happen if I use bootcamp and put in a PC grafic card?

whatever
Aug 7, 2006, 04:23 PM
Thats a little better, but what about having a single processor $1500 model like they used to do with the G4s? If Apple really wants to build their market share, they have to realize that people often buy PCs because they can be customized and some of those people don't want $2500 computers. Not having a customizable model in the desktop lineup that is under $2000 is a bad idea.
One of the big complaints I hear about Dell from my friends in IT that buy computers for our company (10,000+ employees) is that Dell has to many product lines and to many options. All with prices and specs that change daily.

Are you forgetting that you can buy a Mac for as low as $599.00 and it's customizable too!

People who are buying Mac Pros are not the casual shopper, who walks into an Apple store to look at the latest iPods and walk out with a computer (those people buy iMacs).

treysmay
Aug 7, 2006, 04:24 PM
It's almost exactly what I was looking for. I am a student and semi-proffessional artist, the Imac didn't cut it, hd's to slow in macbook pro for video work, and only expandable to 2 gigs of ram for both. the dual 2.0 config will be perfect for running photoshop off of rossetta, FCP, after effects, solid works in bootcamp. Good pricepoint, the dual 2.0 in canadian student discount is close to 50bucks more than the old dual 2.0 OMG WTF. but I was kind of hoping for front row for those nights of book reading and listening to radiohead while stoned, so I dont have to get up if a less ambient song comes on

macenforcer
Aug 7, 2006, 04:26 PM
Ordered!


What a deal. Got the base config for $2500. I can't wait.

shompa
Aug 7, 2006, 04:26 PM
Not really significantly faster than the G5 Quad. Maybe 50% faster at best. As owner of a Quad G5 my motivation would be more about the 6 bays and the FW 800 on the front than the speed. :)

The G5 is almost as fast per clock cycle.
Apple COULD have released quad G5 3ghz instead, but they want us to use Intel.

The whole Intel project is beacuse of no G5 laptop.

Stupid IBM. I do not like X86, the play plattform.
But, I have changed all my PPC macs to Intel now.
Macbook pro, Macbook, macmini and today a Macpro.

LaMerVipere
Aug 7, 2006, 04:26 PM
I wonder why Apple didn't include an IR port & remote with the Mac Pro? It also doesn't ship with Front Row.

It's especially odd considering Apple was touting Front Row as part of Leopard.

Hmm...

Also, if you hit the EJECT key on the keyboard while you have two optical drives installed, will they both open?

Questions, questions...

combatcolin
Aug 7, 2006, 04:30 PM
Just got home from work and went on line as fast as my slow PC would boot.

Lots of power, loads of expansion and 2 optical drive slots! (:p )

But still way way too expensive.

Still going to build a Core Duo 2 2.13Ghz PC, and still wishing Apple would create a computer that i want to buy.

Peel
Aug 7, 2006, 04:32 PM
ITS A DEVELOPERS CONFERENCE !!!!!!!!!! NOT A GIVE-THE-WHINY-CONSUMERS-EVERYTHING-THEY-WANT-MACWORLD-CONFERENCE!!!!!!!!

Give it a rest!!!!
Ahh! I share your sentiments completely. Developer's tools at the developers conference. Simple isn't it?

The next comsumer show is Paris in September. That's where we're likely to see the ipods and other goodies.

Frobozz
Aug 7, 2006, 04:33 PM
Core 2 Duo (Merom/Conroe) was conspicuosly absent from this Keynote.

I too hope when the consumer lineup gets Core 2 Duo that they'll fill this gap with either a high end consumer machine or a low end pro.

B

It's pretty obvious what they'll be doing now. Core 2 Duo iMacs, Merom MacBook Pro's, MacBook and Mac mini stay the same.

SPUY767
Aug 7, 2006, 04:34 PM
I absolutely cannot believe airport and bluetooth are still options on the Pros. They are standard on EVERY other model. What the hell, Apple?

A lot of these will be in a work environment where wireless networking would be a hinderance more than a help. If anything, they should bundle it with the same price and subtract 49$ if you take it off of BTO.

50548
Aug 7, 2006, 04:38 PM
And there are still people looking for a "minitower" Mac...can't we put this rumor to rest???

Headless/minitower Mac = PowerBook G5

typecase
Aug 7, 2006, 04:42 PM
The power supply is on top like the rumor sites said it would be. This seems like a stupid design decision to me. The power cord will hang over everything else. They probably did it out of necessity, but my dual G5 is still prettier.

Also, with the move to intel, can I use the PC version of the same card?

treysmay
Aug 7, 2006, 04:49 PM
boo this no frontrow!!! boooooo!!!!

it is a great tool, My dad loves it for doing presentations, and making the work environment for relaxed. he owns a 3 man company

wildmac
Aug 7, 2006, 04:53 PM
A lot of these will be in a work environment where wireless networking would be a hinderance more than a help. If anything, they should bundle it with the same price and subtract 49$ if you take it off of BTO.

Yep. Where I work, something where an iSight, bluetooth or Airport can't be removed doesn't come in the door.

motulist
Aug 7, 2006, 04:54 PM
Jobs finally delivered on his 3 Ghz promise! ;) :D :D

KindredMAC
Aug 7, 2006, 04:56 PM
And there are still people looking for a "minitower" Mac...can't we put this rumor to rest???

Headless/minitower Mac = PowerBook G5
Don't forget... =iPhone

I still don't believe in the whole iPhone jazz.

carlos700
Aug 7, 2006, 04:56 PM
The NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT is cool with me. It is actually based on the same chip the GeForce 7600 GT is, just with 4 Pixel Pipelines disabled. It should have been called the GeForce 7600 LE since it is closer to the 7600 than it is to the other 7300s, but whatever...

macenforcer
Aug 7, 2006, 04:57 PM
The NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT is cool with me. It is actually based on the same chip the GeForce 7600 GT is, just with 4 Pixel Pipelines disabled.


Exactly. And here's to hoping it doesn't have a fan so it is quiet. :)

SPUY767
Aug 7, 2006, 04:57 PM
Jobs finally delivered on his 3 Ghz promise! ;) :D :D

With the Wicked cooling system that I'm sure these beasts have. It won't be long until some fool writes a firmware patch that boosts the output up to 4G's at least.

KindredMAC
Aug 7, 2006, 04:58 PM
Mac Pro:
Not bad. Not bad at all. A couple gripes if you'll bear me the minute...
#1- Everything is BTO.
What is this going to do for the Apple Stores? There will no longer be a Good, Better, Best with a set price point for each.
It is almost feeling too much like a PC seller now.
BUT, I do love the fact you can purchase extra installed GPU's at the store for your model.

#2- Brand New Tech that is not backwards compatible.
I went to Apple.com to see if the new GPU's would work in my late 2005 G5 and the answer appears at this point to be no.
Same goes for the RAM from what I can tell.

#3- Abscense of an IR sensor for Front Row.
Being a professional, I use my G5 at home for work but also as the family work horse for EVERYTHING. The MacBook and iBook we have
are merely for surfing and email from the living room or while out on the road. To watch heavy web videos or movies or music, the G5
takes to the task. I keep the G5 as the home base of everything iLife related. I have 3 LCD's hooked up to and use all 3 for work and fun.

#4- Not a significant enough difference in case design.
People are still going to refer to it as the G5 or PowerMac in art departments across the country. Hell, at times I call the MacBook "iBook".


That is it for gripes. Otherwise I am very impressed with the models, but not impressed enough at this venture to part ways with my PM G5 that runs CS2 like a dream compared to my MacBook. I will hold onto this great G5 for at least another 2 years before going to the Mac Pro.

Who knows... maybe we will be at Quad-16 Core Motorola PPC chips when I'm ready to give up my PM G5!!! ;)

iHotu
Aug 7, 2006, 05:00 PM
I bet they will still have a nice selection

gerrycurl
Aug 7, 2006, 05:01 PM
And still..... nobody knows if you can just buy a random off the shelf nvidia 7800 and plop it into this sucker.

my powermac g4 died, but can SOMEONE, just ANYONE go into their 'system profiler' and see if they have a list of all the compatible video cards? i seem to remember you could get some information like that in the profiler or some other such app. or if you're an elite hacker, open up terminal and go to /usr/x.org or wahtever it is and see if the nvidia drivers are there.

overall excited. definitely buying a 2ghz mac pro as soon as it's in the stores.

Marx55
Aug 7, 2006, 05:05 PM
Anyone specs about noise level (db) when..?:

- Sleep.
- Idle.
- Low load.
- Medium load.
- High load.
- Maximum load

Thanks.

ickies
Aug 7, 2006, 05:06 PM
I absolutely cannot believe airport and bluetooth are still options on the Pros. They are standard on EVERY other model. What the hell, Apple?

I am very much a pro user and I very much have no use for airport or bluetooth. So I'm glad that it's not being forced on me.

Cobrien
Aug 7, 2006, 05:07 PM
Geez, have you seen the specs you can upgrade to.

2TB hard drive and 16000MB ram, omggfg.

Horst
Aug 7, 2006, 05:07 PM
As for prices, any word on compatibility with 3rd party Ram and internal hard drives ?
You can't possibly run a Pro rig on a meager 1 Gb of Ram, and Apple charges 1100$ for a the minimum 4 gig upgrade :rolleyes: .

Also, the new HD slots look kinda custom...

Without non-Apple options, the real price of the new desktops will make them very expensive for serious users, at least for early adopters.

ntg
Aug 7, 2006, 05:08 PM
The power supply is on top like the rumor sites said it would be. This seems like a stupid design decision to me. The power cord will hang over everything else. They probably did it out of necessity, but my dual G5 is still prettier.

simple, really - heat rises...;)

Thunderbird
Aug 7, 2006, 05:15 PM
Anyone specs about noise level (db) when..?:

- Sleep.
- Idle.
- Low load.
- Medium load.
- High load.
- Maximum load

Thanks.

Thanks for raising the noise question. My thoughts exactly. Since there wasn't a case redesign, I suspect the noise specs to be similar to G5.

Anyone?

macenforcer
Aug 7, 2006, 05:19 PM
Thanks for raising the noise question. My thoughts exactly. Since there wasn't a case redesign, I suspect the noise specs to be similar to G5.

Anyone?


No way. The G5s main problem was the fan that cooled the HDs and the main motherboard chipset, it wasn't the cpu fans that were loud. This machine will be much quiter.

These new xeons require 1/4 the watts.

SPUY767
Aug 7, 2006, 05:20 PM
Thanks for raising the noise question. My thoughts exactly. Since there wasn't a case redesign, I suspect the noise specs to be similar to G5.

Anyone?

I'd say less. The fans in the G5's had to work like dogs because the chips were actually overclocked and were pumping out a lot of heat. The woodcrests should run quite a bit cooler, and the noise level should be less. Notice from the internal views that there are fewer fans than appear on the G5?

bogen
Aug 7, 2006, 05:21 PM
Can't wait to get one for work, ok I really really can't wait

silverblue3
Aug 7, 2006, 05:21 PM
I think it would be quieter. Considering, the processors will run cooler and less cooling power is needed. So the fans may be relatively muted.

KindredMAC
Aug 7, 2006, 05:22 PM
I am very much a pro user and I very much have no use for airport or bluetooth. So I'm glad that it's not being forced on me.
I'm a Pro too...BUT I did get my PM G5 with APE and BT installed and I DO think they should be standard.

My reasoning was the "Future" and "Wirelessness".

I knew that my Airport Extreme station sits right above my set up on a shelf, but I don't know where my G5 might end up down the road in my house, especially if I finish my basement and put a seperate Studio in there. I will probably need to put the Airport somewhere in the middle of the house so our laptops can still get it put not right where the G5 is.

As for BT... #1 Reason- Wireless Keyboard, Mouse and Tablets.
#2 Reason- Many rumors have circulated for almost a year of possible BT integration into the iPods. Maybe for Headphones? Maybe for file transfers? Who knows at this point! So I wanted it JUST IN CASE. As it is, you can't add those items after market into the Macs so why not do it now.

As for "forcing" a tech on someone, I think FW 800 is a forcing of tech on people. I don't need FW 800. I make use of it because it is there in place of extra FW 400 plugs. I would like to know how many out there use their FW 800 ports on their G5's and for what. Ya know what I use mine for? My 3G iPod. Whuppdy Doo!

Frobozz
Aug 7, 2006, 05:25 PM
what will happen if I use bootcamp and put in a PC grafic card?

This is a good question. What happens if I put my x1900xt from my PC into one of these? Would it run under windows? If it would, then it should run under OS X with the correct driver, because it wouldn't be a hardware issue.

I am willing to bet that, at least for the graphics cards with mac specific drivers, you could buy the PC equivalent. If you branch out to different model numbers, you might run into problems.

Anyone have a MacPro they could lend me to test out my theory? :-)

Marx55
Aug 7, 2006, 05:25 PM
About the cube pro or headless iMac

I was thinking exactly the same thing. (although the Mac Pro is VERY tempting right now.)

Yes, but quiet. Without fans, if possible.

For those of you hoping for a mid-range tower, you're looking at it. Take the processor down from dual 2.66Ghz to dual 2.0 and the HD down from 250GB to 160, and you're looking at a $2124 machine.

I sincerely doubt Apple will introduce any new model to its current lineup of mini/pro, macbook/macbook pro. Your best hope is a supermini.

Whatever. But WITHOUT fans (quiet). Please!

thegreatluke
Aug 7, 2006, 05:29 PM
So if I want a mid-range tower, I can configured it to have less RAM, a smaller HD and a completely useless graphics card, and still come in $200-300 more than a comparable machine from Dell/Gateway/etc.? Why can't Apple sell me a desktop with 2GB RAM stock and a 250GB HD for less than two grand?

Yes, the Apple is a quad instead of a dual - but exactly which apps does that matter on? Is a quad really going to be a vast improvement for Photoshop through Rosetta over, say, a single Xeon or 2.4 Conroe?

All I ask for is a moderately priced OS X desktop that isn't crippled in any way (still paying for 802.11g! $350 to get a usable graphics card!).

If using Windows didn't make my eyes bleed, I'd turn and run from Apple hardware in a heartbeat. (And that, of course, is why fanboy dreams of a retail OS X package for any computer would never happen - you'd have to be a fool to use Apple hardware.)
I'm SO angry too! I'm seriously going to be PISSED OFF until Apple offers a 50 GHz workstation with 32 GB of RAM and a 4 TB hard drive for free!

:rolleyes:
This and the MacBook are probably Apple's most competetively-priced computers.

Go ahead - buy a Mac Pro. When you get it, send me the useless graphics card. I wouldn't mind.

This is a good question. What happens if I put my x1900xt from my PC into one of these? Would it run under windows? If it would, then it should run under OS X with the correct driver, because it wouldn't be a hardware issue.

I am willing to bet that, at least for the graphics cards with mac specific drivers, you could buy the PC equivalent. If you branch out to different model numbers, you might run into problems.

Anyone have a MacPro they could lend me to test out my theory? :-)
Most PCI-express graphics cards would work in a Mac Pro without a problem.

mdntcallr
Aug 7, 2006, 05:34 PM
Basic graphics card is kinda weak.

need to have a midground option which is a bit better, but not as much as the ATI x1900

also, where is the option of getting Blu-Ray Drive?

We need high def drives. and why have to buy them elsewhere. want a full HDMI compliant system, that can interface with LCD monitors/tv's made by apple also with speakers.

cmon apple!!!

Bonte
Aug 7, 2006, 05:39 PM
Are these specific Mac GPU's with Mac roms or can we finally use a selection of PC GPU's? If so then the base GPU isn't an issue, just use it for the second screen.
what will happen if I use bootcamp and put in a PC grafic card?

Interesting, if we get Windows to work with PC GPU cards then Apple has no other option than to support these cards also or at least try to. If these are normal PC cards then the MacPro wil be the coolest machine on earth in the hard core gaming community. :cool:

davisjw
Aug 7, 2006, 05:43 PM
Time to sell the wife and kids...

Stridder44
Aug 7, 2006, 05:43 PM
Basic graphics card is kinda weak.

need to have a midground option which is a bit better, but not as much as the ATI x1900

also, where is the option of getting Blu-Ray Drive?

We need high def drives. and why have to buy them elsewhere. want a full HDMI compliant system, that can interface with LCD monitors/tv's made by apple also with speakers.

cmon apple!!!


At the price, you could buy a new car.

kadajawi
Aug 7, 2006, 05:45 PM
Noticed that if you take down the HD to 160 GB you safe enough money to buy another 250 GB HD? Now 160 + 250 makes 410 GB... essentially for the work of building it into the computer, which, as Apple tells us, should be pretty easy. Hmm...

I wish they would sell a baseline version with some sort of a single Core 2 Duo CPU and onboard graphics... anything to reduce price but keep it possible to upgrade.

iGary
Aug 7, 2006, 05:47 PM
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/08/dsc_0631.jpg

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/08/dsc_0641.jpg

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/08/dsc_0636.jpg

Kinda ugly.

macenforcer
Aug 7, 2006, 05:47 PM
3ghz Xeon = 80W
2.66ghz Xeon = 65W
2ghz Xeon = 65W


Looks like the 2.66ghz Xeon is the best bang for buck and heat.

macenforcer
Aug 7, 2006, 05:49 PM
Kinda ugly.


Somewhat. I definately will miss the cool clear shade on the G5. I would always run that computer with the aluminum cover off. Looked so nice. It would have been nice if they put XEON on the inside somewhere. Just too plain inside.


I would swear the mac pro is shorter though. Is it just me?

EDIT: No, its the same exact size. Just 2lbs lighter.

ampd
Aug 7, 2006, 05:51 PM
Well after using a Powerbook G4 for the longest time which was given to me for work, i decided that today I would make my first mac purchase and bought the new mac pro... I finally made the complete leap and soon I will be fully rid of Windows as I will be running only Gentoo and OS X. I'm overjoyed that I will be getting my first mac however I know I won't be so happy seeing the credit card bill...heres what I got:

Two 3GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
Apple Wireless Keyboard and Apple wireless Mighty Mouse
Both Bluetooth 2.0+EDR and AirPort Extreme
250GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s (Ill be adding in my 2 750gb hds)
NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT 256MB (single-link DVI/dual-link DVI)
1GB (2 x 512MB)
1 x SuperDrive

2ndPath
Aug 7, 2006, 05:54 PM
Why is everyone complaining about the graphics card? The baseline option should not be an expensive card as not everyone needs that. And opposed to all other current macs, it can be upgraded when the machine is bought or even down the road. A better base line card would just mean an even higher base line price.

The Mac Pro looks like a really nice work station now in terms of processing power and, compared to the G5, also in terms of expandability of drives. It would be nice to have something with the processing power and pricing like the iMac and some expandability. However I guess Apple expects most people, who buy Mac Pros now, would buy these machines instead and this would mean much less profit for Apple. So it's unlikely to happen.

bleachthru
Aug 7, 2006, 05:56 PM
I find it funny that the online apple store has the Quadcore G5 still listed at $3299. $800 dollars more than the default MacPro which has 1GB ram as opposed to the meger 512MB in the G5, Quad 2.66 vs Quad 2.5, a GeForce 7300 vs the Geforce 6600, not to mention the many other bad ass features like 4 HD bays etc. Is it just me, or should the G5 price come down a bit, at least lower than the new MacPro...But then what do I know, I am still running a 500Mhz G3 as my primary machine, by the time all my student loans are paid perhaps the Quad Quad core will be out : )

iGary
Aug 7, 2006, 05:59 PM
I find it funny that the online apple store has the Quadcore G5 still listed at $3299. $800 dollars more than the default MacPro which has 1GB ram as opposed to the meger 512MB in the G5, Quad 2.66 vs Quad 2.5, a GeForce 7300 vs the Geforce 6600, not to mention the many other bad ass features like 4 HD bays etc

And it still doesn't run Adobe/Macromedia products. ;)

DakotaGuy
Aug 7, 2006, 06:00 PM
About the cube pro or headless iMac
Yes, but quiet. Without fans, if possible.

I'm pretty much sure anything at this performance level will need fans. We are not dealing with a G3 processor anymore.

Anyhow I agree with the people that want a tower in between the iMac and these new Mac Pros. In fact, I would say these new models are probably complete overkill for 80% of Mac users. The 20% that really need this kind of power know who they are. The rest only need it for bragging rights.

I like the iMac it is perfect in my eyes, but many people like to have something that is expandable. Something they can get inside of and change things.

I don't even know if Apple needs a whole new case for that. Just a single dual core processor model would be fine. Either a single Xeon or a single Core 2 Duo. Something priced around $1,500 (+ or - a few dollars) fairly well equipped.

Like I said before these things are beasts almost to the point of overkill except for professionals. Not everyone wants an all-in-one and the Mac Mini is not comparable to a tower in any way. So I think these people's complants are justified.

TedSlawski
Aug 7, 2006, 06:02 PM
Just ordered my Mac Pro!! :D

Quad 3Ghz, 4GB ram, 250GB HD + 500 GB HD, X1900 XT 512MB, Bluetooth+Airport, wireless keyboard and mouse, 1 Superdrive (holding out for BluRay) 30" ACD... $8264.23 :eek:
Estimated Ship Time... 3- 5 Weeks :eek: :eek:

This is gonna be good.
I got the base model, really don't find that graphic cards make much difference to me, RAM is usually less than half of what Apple wants in the aftermarket, putting my lightscribe in the other optical bay, Hard drives are usually close to free with my Staples office rewards, so I'll pick up the pieces to deck it out while I wait 3 weeks to get mine. Plus the place I bought it from gave me a $1200 trade in on my moderately upgraded original 2gig G5. I envy the 3gig processor though but that was financially just out of reach.

ChrisA
Aug 7, 2006, 06:02 PM
.... I have 3meg internet service and I cannot tell a difference between wired and wifi. My wireless will hit ~10mb/s transfer if I'm moving a large file from one computer to another. Obviously, that 10mb/s is faster then my 3meg internet service. My internet service is the bottleneck, not the wireless..

That works for you because you only use the network to connect to the Internet. For someone with a larger setup who keeps all the user files (and home folders) on a file server wireles is not fast enough. You really need gigabit Ethernet to make it work transparently. One you put the home folders on a server then your users can walk up to ANY random machine, log in and see there own desktop and their own files. You get the effect of Sun's Scott Mcneally's famos quote "The network is the computer."

You talk about "moving a large file from one computer to another." with a fastr network you would not care what computer a file was on and have no need to move it. With fast enough network remote files are faster than local files because the remote file server can be very high performance. We have one of those here wioth about a hundred or so SCSI drives in it. Pulling data off 100+ drives at one, in parllel is very fast.

One other thing with wireless that 56Kbps is a shared resource. Every computer has to wait it. If you have a wired network every wire carries twice the nominal bandwidth and it is not shared. The "bottle neck" is the bandwidth of the switch backplane which typically ismany gitabits.

So, bottom line. Lots of people need this. some home users don't but these new machines are not designed for home users

shigzeo
Aug 7, 2006, 06:03 PM
Suppose it'd be a bit heretic to buy one of these solely for Windows, right?

I'd not get a quad Xeon Woodcrest anywhere else for less, and my Athlon 64 just doesn't cut it...

I like your style. i sold my beloved ibook in order to get a new bicycle which is not good for cs2.

DakotaGuy
Aug 7, 2006, 06:05 PM
I got the base model, really don't find that graphic cards make much difference to me, RAM is usually less than half of what Apple wants in the aftermarket, putting my lightscribe in the other optical bay, Hard drives are usually close to free with my Staples office rewards, so I'll pick up the pieces to deck it out while I wait 3 weeks to get mine. Plus the place I bought it from gave me a $1200 trade in on my moderately upgraded original 2gig G5. I envy the 3gig processor though but that was financially just out of reach.

That brings up a question I was wondering about...since they only offer 1 model that can be customized by Apple...what will the Apple Stores and Authorized Resellers have in stock...Just the base model?

milozauckerman
Aug 7, 2006, 06:14 PM
I'm SO angry too! I'm seriously going to be PISSED OFF until Apple offers a 50 GHz workstation with 32 GB of RAM and a 4 TB hard drive for free!
Reductio ad absurdum only works if the original argument/request was absurd (hmmm...).

I, for one, am not asking for anything extraordinary or underpriced. I think the people looking for a $999 desktop are nuts, too. That's a market where Apple doesn't have a niche to get into.

But a sub-$2k desktop with a decent-to-good graphics card (and yes, the 7300 GT is completely useless - the x1600 in the iMac I'm using right now

I want something in competition with the mid-range PCs of the world - a tower with a 2.4GHz Conroe or a 2.0GHz single Xeon, with a graphics card at least capable of playing whatever games are out (once upon a time, I remember playing games now and then), two hard drive bays (four is nice, but two gives me a boot drive and a media drive, backups can go external), for $1599-2000 retail.

If Gateway can sell me a 2.4GHz Conroe with X1900 XT - more than adequate for my needs in photography and design, with the added benefit of games - for $1850, why the hell can't Apple sell me one for $2k? I'll happily pay the Apple Tax for something that genuinely fits my needs.

Marx55
Aug 7, 2006, 06:14 PM
ProMac is a workstation, Consumer is still king though and I suspect something new the next few months because Mini aint enough and ProMac is a beast. Still waiting for my Cube Jobs:D

Me too!

2ndPath
Aug 7, 2006, 06:16 PM
That brings up a question I was wondering about...since they only offer 1 model that can be customized by Apple...what will the Apple Stores and Authorized Resellers have in stock...Just the base model?

I was also wondering about that. The stores also have additional configurations of the MacBooks and MacBook Pros available. Probably Apple will have three standard configurations in the Stores. The stores could also just customize the machines for the customers. I don't know how easy it is to switch the CPUs, but all the other components, which can be customized, seem to be easily changable.

Weaselboy
Aug 7, 2006, 06:17 PM
As for prices, any word on compatibility with 3rd party Ram and internal hard drives ?

Looks like the extra one gig from Apple is $300 and what appears to be the same ram from Crucial is $202. If you go into the custom config screen for a Mac Pro there is a drop down box that explains the memory requirements. In the box there is a caution about some sort of fancy memory heat sink Apple uses that is not on other memory modules. That kind of scared me, so I just went with the Apple memory upgrade. For the extra $98 I figured it was not worth the chance of Crucial memory not working properly.

I see on Newegg there is a Kingston module with the right specs, and the picture looks like there is a heat sink attached... but who knows if it is like the one Apple specifies.

sejanus
Aug 7, 2006, 06:18 PM
Does anyone know if this systems absolutely *REQUIRES* ECC RAM?

ECC is very expensive!

Multimedia
Aug 7, 2006, 06:18 PM
SO in the Paris expo is where we'll most likely see updated MBP?They don't need a special event for what will most likely just be an updated processor.I am one who thinks the Merom MBP will be a new design including user installable HD like on the MB. :) So I am still thinking Paris Apple Expo. Apple loves the French. ;)

Weaselboy
Aug 7, 2006, 06:19 PM
Just ordered with the X1900 upgrade, memory upgrade, and Bluetooth. Says three to five weeks to ship.

If I check the order status twice a day, will that make my system ship faster? :)

Multimedia
Aug 7, 2006, 06:24 PM
The G5 is almost as fast per clock cycle.
Apple COULD have released quad G5 3ghz instead, but they want us to use Intel.

The whole Intel project is beacuse of no G5 laptop.

Stupid IBM. I do not like X86, the play plattform.
But, I have changed all my PPC macs to Intel now.
Macbook pro, Macbook, macmini and today a Macpro.Congrats on making the shift. I will probably wait for 8 cores. But I am tempted because of the 6 Bays and the additional front ports. Maybe I'll get a refurb in the Fall. Still want a Core 2 MBP more I guess. Really want 8 cores. Might just hold out until Spring so Leopard is inside 8 cores. Love Leopard features. :)

Stupid IBM...

Hattig
Aug 7, 2006, 06:31 PM
Does anyone know if this systems absolutely *REQUIRES* ECC RAM?

ECC is very expensive!

Wait until you see the FBDIMM pricing ...

JoshH
Aug 7, 2006, 06:34 PM
Also, if you hit the EJECT key on the keyboard while you have two optical drives installed, will they both open?

Questions, questions...

On my dual G4, the Eject key opens the top tray, and Option Eject opens the bottom. I suspect it is the same...

Multimedia
Aug 7, 2006, 06:36 PM
Just ordered with the X1900 upgrade, memory upgrade, and Bluetooth. Says three to five weeks to ship.

If I check the order status twice a day, will that make my system ship faster? :)Two 1 GB Sticks are only $386 from Third Parties. (http://www.wiredzone.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=32003196&source=froogle)

2x1 = 2GB = $386 vs Apples 4x 512 NOT 6x 512 = + $386 Plus the One GB from Apple for total of 3GB.
4x1 = 4GB = $772 vs. Apple's $990 Plus the One GB you get base from Apple for total of 5GB.

I think you really should change your order to base ram and add TWO 1GB sticks for only $386 for a total of 3GB to begin with for only $116 more than the cost of TWO from Apple taking up only 4 slots. :)

When you buy 2 GB (4 x 512) from Apple you are paying Apple $270 for ONE GB (because you get ONE GB Base anyway) Instead of $193 per ONE GB from Third Parties plus the ONE it comes with no matter what.

$386 MINUS $270 = $116 for that first GB it comes with. See?

dante@sisna.com
Aug 7, 2006, 06:37 PM
Not really significantly faster than the G5 Quad. Maybe 50% faster at best. As owner of a Quad G5 my motivation would be more about the 6 bays and the FW 800 and extra USB 2 port on the front than the speed. :) Not worth the extra money to go 3GHz - 33% more money for 12% more speed doesn't make economic sense. Need 8 cores inside.

Agreed!

The next 2 releases of the MacPro are the ones I'll buy.

I am very happy I purchased my PowerMac Quad -- It has made me a lot of money in production multitasking. Fantastic Machine with NATIVE software that works NOW, with few minor bugs which I am sure will surface with the MacPros.

DJO

guzhogi
Aug 7, 2006, 06:39 PM
I don't know if this was said, but no dual grpahics cards in SLI/Crossfire mode? Many PeeCee motherboards support it. If the Mac Pro is supposed to be a workstation, why no SLI/Crossfire?

I think I'll wait until MWSF or whenever Apple releases 10.5 and see what's out (and to save up money). I checked to see how much it would cost to buy one w/ the specs I want (bluetooth & Airport, superdrive, GeForce 4500, smallest RAM & hard drive, 30" apple display) and it cost over $7,000. That's almost half a year's pay for me (I work in a public elementary school as their computer geek so the pay's lousy, but still fun).

PCMacUser
Aug 7, 2006, 06:40 PM
Well it's certainly good to see new computers, but they really are aimed at high level tasks. These machines use server technology, rather than technology developed for the retail sector.

Interesting points I see are the use of ECC RAM (this is not at all unusual for servers, but very expensive because it's usually paid for by a company's server budget), and I didn't see any mention of onboard hardware RAID, which is a bit disappointing when you've got all of this other fancy stuff going on.

I'd also be interested to see, from an environmental perspective, how its power consumption levels compare with an equivalent consumer PC.

guzhogi
Aug 7, 2006, 06:41 PM
1 GB Sticks are only $125 each from Third Parties. (http://www.oempcworld.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=1.0G-PC2-5300E&Category_Code=240pin)

2x1 = 2GB = $250 vs Apples 4x 512 NOT 6x 512 = + $270
4x1 = 4GB = $500 vs. Apple's $990

I think you really should change your order to base ram and add TWO 1GB sticks for only $250 for a total of 3GB to begin with for less than the cost of TWO from Apple taking up only 4 slots. :)
A good site for RAM is www.dealram.com. A lot (as in most, if not all) of the RAM is generic, but much cheaper than Apple's!

dante@sisna.com
Aug 7, 2006, 06:44 PM
And it still doesn't run Adobe/Macromedia products. ;)

Amen -- For me Adobe and Macromedia are huge apps -- I would never run them under Rosetta and chance my business to this setup.

The Quad G5 is a great machine: worth the cash -- cheap RAM, native performance, 64-bit, good graphics, nice SATA and decent bus.

macenforcer
Aug 7, 2006, 06:46 PM
1 GB Sticks are only $125 each from Third Parties. (http://www.oempcworld.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=1.0G-PC2-5300E&Category_Code=240pin)

2x1 = 2GB = $250 vs Apples 4x 512 NOT 6x 512 = + $270
4x1 = 4GB = $500 vs. Apple's $990

I think you really should change your order to base ram and add TWO 1GB sticks for only $250 for a total of 3GB to begin with for less than the cost of TWO from Apple taking up only 4 slots. :)


But are they FB-DIMMs?

milozauckerman
Aug 7, 2006, 06:51 PM
1 GB Sticks are only $125 each from Third Parties.

That isn't a heatsinked FB-DIMM.

RAM is truly the dealbreaker here. EDU prices bring the 2.0 model down to a reasonable price, but I want 4GB - I'd like to scan my 4x5 film, so the more RAM the better - thanks to Xeon and the need for the ECC heatsinked stuff, I'm looking at $800 from Crucial. No way, man, not gonna do it.

The more I look at it, the more I believe a reasonable mid-tower option has to be in the pipeline.

Multimedia
Aug 7, 2006, 06:52 PM
But are they FB-DIMMs?Yes I corrected my pricing on post #188 to reflect that. Still cheaper than Apple (http://www.wiredzone.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=32003196&source=froogle).

$386 per pair of 1GB sticks.

tonywalker23
Aug 7, 2006, 06:52 PM
this may be a dumb ? but . . .

as far as the empty drive bay, i already have a pionner 109 superdrive i bought for my old powermac g4. would that be compatible?

Multimedia
Aug 7, 2006, 06:54 PM
this may be a dumb ? but . . .

as far as the empty drive bay, i already have a pionner 109 superdrive i bought for my old powermac g4. would that be compatible?Latest Pioneer DVR-111 is only $35.

Multimedia
Aug 7, 2006, 06:57 PM
That isn't a heatsinked FB-DIMM.

RAM is truly the dealbreaker here. EDU prices bring the 2.0 model down to a reasonable price, but I want 4GB - I'd like to scan my 4x5 film, so the more RAM the better - thanks to Xeon and the need for the ECC heatsinked stuff, I'm looking at $800 from Crucial. No way, man, not gonna do it.

The more I look at it, the more I believe a reasonable mid-tower option has to be in the pipeline.Yeah I know what you mean. I fixed my post #188 to reflect that higher price. How About $770 From Kingston Technology? (http://www.wiredzone.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=32003196&source=froogle)

bigmc6000
Aug 7, 2006, 07:11 PM
FB Dimms ECC are really expensive.

Anyone knows where to get them cheaper?

I plan to use 4 gig FBdimm 4x1024
and 4 750 gig disks.

Then Bittorrent wont be slow!


Newegg has 512's for about 100 and 1GB chips for $200. Way cheaper than apple's upgrades. And they are retial crucial chips...

Hope that helps. Also, I don't know about the 750GB HD's - apple only offers 500GB drives - there may be a reason for that...

Grokgod
Aug 7, 2006, 07:13 PM
Is this whole heat sinked ram issue for real?

I just ordered the top o line, Macpro. but with base ram as usual onoly to see the FB- blah blah heat sinked, get nothing else or your computer will become the wind tunnel of hell, Is this true.

Should I get a 2gig base and try to work up from there?

Hellllpppp!

OMG estimated shipping date Sept 12th, they gotta be kidding!

tipdrill407
Aug 7, 2006, 07:14 PM
There are many of you I want to beat with a spiky stick right now. Let's consolidate you into one bullet-point list of whiners:


How could they not include Airport/Bluetooth? Screw you Apple, I'm going (to Win XP) home!
How could they not release a low-end non-pro Mac Pro? That's it! I'm getting a Fujitsu!!
How could WWDC be so lame?? I can't believe they didn't release an iPhone and new iPod! Don't these rumor sites verify their information with Apple first?? To hell with Macs, I'm Ubunting!


A bunch of wankers.

1. You are going to spend thousands on a Mac PRO and you are going to pitch a fit over adding wireless for less than 80 bucks? Guess what, these are PROFESSIONAL WORKSTATIONS, not consumer internet computers. The target demographic of these computers is a wired-network setting. Obviously home users and others may have use for wireless in a Mac Pro, so that's why Apple OFFERS IT.

2. What applications do you need that a Mac Mini Core Duo can't handle? Oh, games? Why in the sweet baby Jesus' name are you on MACrumors if you're a gamer? Apple cedes your kind to Dellienware. Go. Shoo. Leave the grownups alone. Some people want a "configurable" computer even though they will never have any need to configure anything (besides RAM). Niche of a niche. If you're such a geek that you want all the PCI express slots and hard drive bays and dual optical drives, get a newspaper route and bloody buy a Mac Pro. If Apple decides to release a Mac Cube, you'll be the first to know, pinky swear!

3. WWDC. D. C. ****D**** If you thought an iPhone was coming, you are certifiable.


From what I am reading, the Mac Pro seems to be the most mind-numbingly excellent computer and value to ever come out of Apple. Huge triumph. I can't wait to play with one in the stores.

And to those of you who so desperately want snazzy new consumer products, you'll always have Paris.

AMEN!!!!

I LOVE YOU!!!

Multimedia
Aug 7, 2006, 07:22 PM
In the past, Apple has always issued a "White Paper" on new leading products. I can't see the link for that yet. Anyone find it? :confused:

Multimedia
Aug 7, 2006, 07:29 PM
Is this whole heat sinked ram issue for real?

I just ordered the top o line, Macpro. but with base ram as usual onoly to see the FB- blah blah heat sinked, get nothing else or your computer will become the wind tunnel of hell, Is this true.

Should I get a 2gig base and try to work up from there?

Hellllpppp!

OMG estimated shipping date Sept 12th, they gotta be kidding!No you did the right thing. Anything more will still cost less from third parties.

bodeh6
Aug 7, 2006, 07:30 PM
I still don't understand the people that complain about not having WiFi and Bluetooth standard. This is a Tower. You are not going to be moving it around too much so WiFi is pointless. Also Bluetooth can be had with a $20 USB Adapter if you are going to use it all the time.

I dare somebody to find any other computer that even has WiFi and or Bluetooth standard.

JoshRtek
Aug 7, 2006, 07:33 PM
Everyone's been complaining about the nVidia GeForce 7300 GT...

All I want to know is how it compares to the ATI Radeon x800xt? I currently have one in my PC and it has served me well for almost 2 years; I can play any game that's out today (maybe not at huge resolutions, but with all options turned on). Anyone?

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 7, 2006, 07:36 PM
After some serious thinking I have come to the conclusion that $5K for a Rev. A is a bit too much of a gamble for me, especially considering the "normal" expected Rev. A snags. I wish Apple had better quality control.
However, I might get a Rev. A MP if early adaptors doesn't report too much of glitches.

janstett
Aug 7, 2006, 07:36 PM
Wow, I want one! This will be my next PC desktop, definitely. Now it's a question of timing.

I have a 15" MacBook Pro, and my PC desktop is a 3.6 GHz Pentium D Extreme (two cores each with Hyperthreading, looks like 4 cores) that doesn't really need to be replaced yet. I want my first desktop Mac, but I'm trying to work down my debt and then save for a sports car, so I have to make some sacrifices...

The Mac Pro will have to wait (as long as I can resist the temptation). Besides, by that time something better will inevitably come along. But I have to give Apple applause. I like the SATA drive cages. And finally nVidia support for X86 (I wonder if the MacVidia project is now dead). 3 GHz dual Woodcrest is very, very tempting :) Maybe I can get my job to buy one...

rinconj
Aug 7, 2006, 07:37 PM
Is this whole heat sinked ram issue for real?

I just ordered the top o line, Macpro. but with base ram as usual onoly to see the FB- blah blah heat sinked, get nothing else or your computer will become the wind tunnel of hell, Is this true.

Should I get a 2gig base and try to work up from there?

Hellllpppp!

OMG estimated shipping date Sept 12th, they gotta be kidding!


Their estimated shipping date is on the safe side that it's how long it'll take if it has to be shipped from Mars. I ordered two BT mighty mice the day it came out and the shipping date was said to be some time late Auguest, but it arrived two days later ( late July).

thegreatluke
Aug 7, 2006, 07:37 PM
Newegg has 512's for about 100 and 1GB chips for $200. Way cheaper than apple's upgrades. And they are retial crucial chips...

Hope that helps. Also, I don't know about the 750GB HD's - apple only offers 500GB drives - there may be a reason for that...
Are they fully buffered 667 MHz ECC RAM? :)

killr_b
Aug 7, 2006, 07:41 PM
Also, if you hit the EJECT key on the keyboard while you have two optical drives installed, will they both open?

Option+Eject for the lower drive.

Multimedia
Aug 7, 2006, 07:58 PM
For the budget conscious, you can order a 2GHz MacIntel Pro for only $1962 with a 160GB HD. Since 250 GB Hds are only $70 these days - recently 400 GB was $99 at Fry's, yes SATA/300 Maxtor - Getting rid of the Apple 250 for a 160 is worth saving $67.

Apple's $400 price for 500GB HDs is Absurd. Fry's $99 for 400GB Maxtor SATA/300 on Memorial Day is more reasonable wouldn't you say?

The above is all based on the Educational pricing. But even the retail pricing is better saved than spent. ;)

My GUESS is that the 2GB MacIntel Quad is about the same speed or a little slower than the G5 Quad. But I love the 6 bays and additional ports in it.

I'm looking forward to teh benchmarks on the 2GHz Mac Pro Quad Vs. The 2.5GHz PM G5 Quad. That will tell quite the story. Note the SATA bus is 300 vs 150 on the G5.

But it is only about 15% more money - $270 Ed or $300 Retail - for 33% More Power. So the 2GHz model becomes an "it's all I can afford" model. Or only need for non-speed intensive applications.

Looks like a 3GB RAM config will cost at least almost $400 more - getting 2GB from third party. So pretty much a $2900 deal - Educational (plus HDs) for minimum 3GB setup on the 2.66GHz model - including 8% CA Sales Tax.

Evergreen
Aug 7, 2006, 08:05 PM
Is it liquid cooled?

skellener
Aug 7, 2006, 08:07 PM
How about a 23" or 30" iMac?

Multimedia
Aug 7, 2006, 08:11 PM
Is it liquid cooled?Probably not.

shelterpaw
Aug 7, 2006, 08:15 PM
Apple's $400 price for 500GB HDs is Absurd. Fry's $99 for 400GB Maxtor SATA/300 on Memorial Day is more reasonable wouldn't you say?
.
It is quite a hight price, but when looking into hard drives keep in mind how loud they are. Apple tends to choose quiet drives and Maxtor tends to make really loud drives. Would be a shame to buy such a lovely machine only to put a bunch of loud and whinig drives in it. silentpcreview.com is a good place to go to see which drives are the best. http://www.silentpcreview.com/

Seagate tends to do a good job of keeping the noise down.

poe diddley
Aug 7, 2006, 08:17 PM
ok im super duper glad they finally released it
and i'm happy about it being quad processor and the quad 3ghz is soooo dreamy
but i have mixed feelings about the case
on one hand i'm glad they stuck with the look of the g5 powermac,
and didnt go to some plastic looking crap (i love the brushed aluminum look)
but i wish they would have made it a little different looking

iMikeT
Aug 7, 2006, 08:18 PM
I can't wait until I have the money for one of these.:rolleyes:


Anyway, I am surprised that they were announced so early during the keynote.

Grokgod
Aug 7, 2006, 08:29 PM
well I called back and upped the ram to 2 gigs which is what i consider the base really.

I just didnt want to go running around looking for ram to get to work.

Crucial doesnt have anything for the MacPro yet and I was fooled by the strange new words and the "you will have heat problems if you buy other ram from other makers that dont have heat sinks!"

What the??

So I feel for it and bit another 300 offa my wallet.

figure that with this base i can then search at a somewhat leisurely pace to get the other 4 gigs kits that will fit in the remaining slots.

Please someone tell me it was a smart move?

TIA

p0intblank
Aug 7, 2006, 08:32 PM
I thought the keynote was awesome! :D The Mac Pro definitely seems like one kick ass computer. $2499 isn't bad at all for what you are getting. Dual Xeon processors? I'll take one (if I had the money)!

macenforcer
Aug 7, 2006, 08:33 PM
well I called back and upped the ram to 2 gigs which is what i consider the base really.

I just didnt want to go running around looking for ram to get to work.

Crucial doesnt have anything for the MacPro yet and I was fooled by the strange new words and the "you will have heat problems if you buy other ram from other makers that dont have heat sinks!"

What the??

So I feel for it and bit another 300 offa my wallet.

figure that with this base i can then search at a somewhat leisurely pace to get the other 4 gigs kits that will fit in the remaining slots.

Please someone tell me it was a smart move?

TIA


I was thinking this myself until I saw it was 4 x 512mb sticks. That just sucks. If it was 2 x 1gb sticks I would say not bad but its not good. Give crucial a few days to look into it. They guarantee compatibility, if it doesn't work you can return it. I am holding out for third party ram and staying with the 1gb base. Thank god its 1gb and not 512mb they usually throw at us.

Sorry to cast a shadow over your decision but hey if you can afford it who cares right.

shelterpaw
Aug 7, 2006, 08:35 PM
I was fooled by the strange new words and the "you will have heat problems if you buy other ram from other makers that dont have heat sinks!"

TIA
haha sucka!

Just kidding... :p

macenforcer
Aug 7, 2006, 08:37 PM
Anyone have their shipment notification yet? When I ordered my mighty mouse it shipped the same day at 8pm and the ship time was the same as the MacPro so I am hoping. I opted for overnight shipping. I was dreaming of getting this tomorrow but at latest they said I will get it Friday.

Fingers Crossed.

finchna
Aug 7, 2006, 08:42 PM
Sure hope these new machines are really 1.6 to 2x faster than quads on everything and not just select benchmarks. They do sound good!

ezekielrage_99
Aug 7, 2006, 08:48 PM
These sound sweet, I want one.

But it's funny how the whole Mac Pro is a killer machine but they still neglect the video cards, seriously a nVidia Geforce 7300GT.

VanMac
Aug 7, 2006, 08:52 PM
Nice specs on this machine. Exactly what I've been waiting for. I purchased my 1.33GHz G4 iBook one year ago just to get into macs, and see if I liked them. Stellar machine, so I'm looking forward to move up to the big kahuna and play around with things like FCP, etc.

I will likely wait a month or so while the dust settles, and monitor the situation. Nice to see the price drops in displays as well. Everytime I look at the 30" display at the store I cant seem to walk away :)

RichP
Aug 7, 2006, 08:55 PM
So..I have one on order too, not sure if I am all that excited, which sounds ridiculous. Ive been holding out replacing my 1.8G5 for a while, and my plan was to get a cheapo quad g5 once these things came out, but the 2.66 quad is pretty damn cheap compared to what the old quad was. Hell, ebay wont have deals on used G5 quads that are worth the "used" risk for ages now.

About the RAM, I ordered mine with the Radeon card, which will postpone my order some. By then, someone will have one of these machines, and figure out what the deal is with the RAM heatsinks so I can order more..i hope :o

edit: dont forget, you get a free nano with edu purchase!

Multimedia
Aug 7, 2006, 08:55 PM
ok im super duper glad they finally released it
and i'm happy about it being quad processor and the quad 3ghz is soooo dreamy
but i have mixed feelings about the case
on one hand i'm glad they stuck with the look of the g5 powermac,
and didnt go to some plastic looking crap (i love the brushed aluminum look)
but i wish they would have made it a little different lookingIt does look completely different. Are you blind? Two Optical Ports. 5 front ports. Rear layout is completely different as well. Looks only a little like the G5.

ampd
Aug 7, 2006, 08:56 PM
These sound sweet, I want one.

But it's funny how the whole Mac Pro is a killer machine but they still neglect the video cards, seriously a nVidia Geforce 7300GT.

If you don't like the video card then upgrade it to the quadro and go play your Doom 3 at 110fps...

Multimedia
Aug 7, 2006, 08:59 PM
It is quite a hight price, but when looking into hard drives keep in mind how loud they are. Apple tends to choose quiet drives and Maxtor tends to make really loud drives. Would be a shame to buy such a lovely machine only to put a bunch of loud and whinig drives in it. Quietpcreview.com is a good place to go to see which drives are the best.

Seagate tends to do a good job of keeping the noise down.That URL is no good. Would you please go to the site and COPY the URL and then PASTE it here with the LINK tool?

Did you mean SILENT PC REVIEW (http://www.silentpcreview.com/)?

spicyapple
Aug 7, 2006, 09:00 PM
The GeForce 7300GT is more than adequate to power a Final Cut edit session, edit multi-track audio, surf the web or email, while working on a 30" LCD and a 23" LCD.

Not everyone is going to use a powerful card for gaming, and I wouldn't want to pay more than I need for my uses.

wildmac
Aug 7, 2006, 09:00 PM
These sound sweet, I want one.

But it's funny how the whole Mac Pro is a killer machine but they still neglect the video cards, seriously a nVidia Geforce 7300GT.

REPEAT AFTER ME: NOT EVERYONE NEEDS A VIDEO CARD WITH 512RAM. NOT EVERYONE IS PLAYING DOOM.

Seriously, a lot of these WORKSTATIONS will never use apps that require more than that video card. Many will be headless. Why put a $350 video card in there?..

It's called CHOICE.

aafuss1
Aug 7, 2006, 09:01 PM
macpro.pdf is the service manual for those who have GSX and Service Source access (eg. AASP's do). Can't find public info on how to add/remove user installable part yets.

kaneda
Aug 7, 2006, 09:07 PM
I want a new look....but nice specs...

Zoowatch
Aug 7, 2006, 09:10 PM
how about frontrow and Apple remote?

i know this is a pro machine...

but having these built-in would be great

besides... SJ mentioned that frontrow would be enhanced in Leopard

does this mean that the new Mac Pro would have frontrow as well?

Grokgod
Aug 7, 2006, 09:16 PM
Yea the 4x512 does suck, there wasnt even an option to put 2x1 gigers.

Weird!

But I figure that I will get a 4 giger kit, slap that in and revel in my 6 gigs.

A personal best.

oh , how sad my life has become when the acquisition of ram beyond the past has replaced my once formidable tales of conquest and achievement.

I make myself sick,:D but why am i smiling?

Cause its 6 gigs man, that should scream!:p

Multimedia
Aug 7, 2006, 09:17 PM
well I called back and upped the ram to 2 gigs which is what i consider the base really.

I just didnt want to go running around looking for ram to get to work.

Crucial doesnt have anything for the MacPro yet and I was fooled by the strange new words and the "you will have heat problems if you buy other ram from other makers that dont have heat sinks!"

What the??

So I feel for it and bit another 300 offa my wallet.

figure that with this base i can then search at a somewhat leisurely pace to get the other 4 gigs kits that will fit in the remaining slots.

Please someone tell me it was a smart move?

TIAYou can get third party 1GB sticks for about $200 each. No point in wasting slots with more 512 sticks. You can run fine with 1GB out of the box. It will be plenty fast. I would also dumb down the HD to 160 and save another $75 which is what you can buy a 250 for IN ADDITION TO THE 160 you will get - even 400GB/300 SATA for only about $99 - $129.

I recommend base MINUS $75 HD DOWN to 160GB plus maybe ADD Bluetooth for $29 and perhaps ADD a second video card if you have three or four monitors for $150 more and that's IT.

$2603 List Retail or $2393 Educational Plus Tax.

That's less than I paid for this Refurbed G5 Quad - such a deal. ;) BTW, I looked and they haven't lowered the price of the Refurbished SAVE G5 PMs yet. They are now officially OVERPRICED BIG TIME.

RAM and HDs from third parties. Airport can be done later if you don't need it now.

Did everyone notice that they have priced the 2.66 GHz such that it makes no sense to buy 2GHz and 3GHz models? 2GHz is too little less and 3GHz is too much more. Crazy. Apple must have gotten an amazing price on the 2.66GHz Woodcrest.

KindredMAC
Aug 7, 2006, 09:35 PM
You can get third party 1GB sticks for about $200 each. No point in wasting slots with more 512 sticks. You can run fine with 1GB out of the box. It will be plenty fast. I would also dumb down the HD to 160 and save another $75 which is what you can buy a 250 for IN ADDITION TO THE 160 you will get - even 400GB/300 SATA for only about $99 - $129.

I recommend base MINUS $75 HD DOWN to 160GB plus maybe ADD Bluetooth for $29 and perhaps ADD a second video card if you have three or four monitors for $150 more and that's IT.

$2603 List Retail or $2393 Educational Plus Tax.

That's less than I paid for this Refurbed G5 Quad - such a deal. ;)

RAM and HDs from third parties. Airport can be done later if you don't need it now.
I'd watch that last sentence... Airport was NOT an option you could add on LATER with the PowerMac G5's. Are you sure about that statement?

Multimedia
Aug 7, 2006, 09:38 PM
I'd watch that last sentence... Airport was NOT an option you could add on LATER with the PowerMac G5's. Are you sure about that statement?Yes it was and still is. I'm 100% Certain. You can put it in in about 2 minutes. Nothing to it. :) You're probably thinking of Bluetooth which is not user installable which is why I recommend it since it's only $29 extra. Will be a resale feature.

gerrycurl
Aug 7, 2006, 09:49 PM
actually crucial already has your ram, apple's basically using an intel 5000 motherboard:

http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.asp?Mfr%2BProductline=Intel%2B+Motherboards&mfr=Intel&tabid=AM&model=S5000XVN&submit=Go

I was thinking this myself until I saw it was 4 x 512mb sticks. That just sucks. If it was 2 x 1gb sticks I would say not bad but its not good. Give crucial a few days to look into it. They guarantee compatibility, if it doesn't work you can return it. I am holding out for third party ram and staying with the 1gb base. Thank god its 1gb and not 512mb they usually throw at us.

Sorry to cast a shadow over your decision but hey if you can afford it who cares right.

macenforcer
Aug 7, 2006, 09:55 PM
actually crucial already has your ram, apple's basically using an intel 5000 motherboard:

http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.asp?Mfr%2BProductline=Intel%2B+Motherboards&mfr=Intel&tabid=AM&model=S5000XVN&submit=Go


Nice. So this is it huh?


RAM 2 x 1GB (http://www.crucial.com/store/MPartspecs.Asp?mtbpoid=EE744046A5CA7304&WSMD=S5000XVN&WSPN=CT2KIT12872AF667)

milozauckerman
Aug 7, 2006, 09:59 PM
Not everyone is going to use a powerful card for gaming, and I wouldn't want to pay more than I need for my uses.
Uh, that's the point: you shouldn't have to 'pay more' - it should be standard, and shouldn't raise the price-point, if other manufacturers can do it.

I don't get the apologists who defend every questionable component from Apple by saying 'well, I don't want to pay extra in the base price' (for a reasonable amount of RAM or for a decent videocard) - demand more from Apple.

Ask why you can't have a $2500 flagship desktop with a graphics card that didn't cost Apple $40, why Apple can't eat the extra $45 to offer their consumer items with a usable amount of RAM standard.

milozauckerman
Aug 7, 2006, 10:00 PM
I don't see a heatsink on that Crucial RAM.

gammamonk
Aug 7, 2006, 10:02 PM
If I had 3 months salary to blow-- I would get one. Does anyone else have the problem where you can't say Quad Xeon 3Ghz without saying it, "Quad F---ing Xeon 3Ghz?" I would say it that way infront of my Grandma.

Spec'd the way I want, it's 7 grand.

tipdrill407
Aug 7, 2006, 10:03 PM
Uh, that's the point: you shouldn't have to 'pay more' - it should be standard, and shouldn't raise the price-point, if other manufacturers can do it.

I don't get the apologists who defend every questionable component from Apple by saying 'well, I don't want to pay extra in the base price' (for a reasonable amount of RAM or for a decent videocard) - demand more from Apple.

Ask why you can't have a $2500 flagship desktop with a graphics card that didn't cost Apple $40, why Apple can't eat the extra $45 to offer their consumer items with a usable amount of RAM standard.

The base model offers more than enough features for a pro to work blazingly fast. The graphics card is adequate for A LOT of things, except maybe hardcore gaming. But again Apple never intended the Mac Pro to be used for shooting ppl.

aafuss1
Aug 7, 2006, 10:04 PM
http://search.info.apple.com/?q=mac+pro&lr=lang_en&search=Go&type=- DIY parts instructions.

Demoman
Aug 7, 2006, 10:27 PM
So if I want a mid-range tower, I can configured it to have less RAM, a smaller HD and a completely useless graphics card, and still come in $200-300 more than a comparable machine from Dell/Gateway/etc.? Why can't Apple sell me a desktop with 2GB RAM stock and a 250GB HD for less than two grand?

Yes, the Apple is a quad instead of a dual - but exactly which apps does that matter on? Is a quad really going to be a vast improvement for Photoshop through Rosetta over, say, a single Xeon or 2.4 Conroe?

All I ask for is a moderately priced OS X desktop that isn't crippled in any way (still paying for 802.11g! $350 to get a usable graphics card!).

If using Windows didn't make my eyes bleed, I'd turn and run from Apple hardware in a heartbeat. (And that, of course, is why fanboy dreams of a retail OS X package for any computer would never happen - you'd have to be a fool to use Apple hardware.)

Your logic completely defeats my ability to understand it. I use Apple hardware and do not like being called a fool by a 'user of a lesser God'.

There does seem to be a market for a mid-range tower/desktop, user-configurable Apple computer. I am sure that if Apple can make the manufacturing and numbers come out, they will do this.

But, the rest of your post seems to be useless, irrational grandstanding. Dell does not offer any decent video card standard, nor do they offer 2 GB of RAM. You say the graphics card is useless, but it is fine for a high-end file-server. Those wanting high-end graphics have two solid options.

If you need to be schooled in "..but exactly which apps does that matter on?", this machine is definitely NOT for you. If you cannot find an Apple computer that fits your requirements, that is sad. But, you should have to walk away reluctantly, not "..turn and run from Apple hardware in a heartbeat."

THX1139
Aug 7, 2006, 10:30 PM
I wonder if those processors are soldered. I suppose they aren't since it's build to order? Anyone know if there is a way to verify that? It would be nice to finally get a machine from Apple that won't be cost prohibitive to upgrade to faster chips later.

shelterpaw
Aug 7, 2006, 10:36 PM
That URL is no good. Would you please go to the site and COPY the URL and then PASTE it here with the LINK tool?

Did you mean SILENT PC REVIEW (http://www.silentpcreview.com/)?
Yes I did.. My bad, sorry... I'm a little out of it today. :confused:

DISCOMUNICATION
Aug 7, 2006, 10:45 PM
Has Apple given their ID department the year off? Or have the reassigned everyone to make the iPod look cooler? No I wasn't expecting a radical redesign, because aside from the MacBook there hasn't been one in a long time.
I miss the good old days when Apple would not only drastically change the case design every time a new processor was used, but they would also do some major tweeking of materials and color for minor speed bumps. I know it's hard with laptops and the mini because they are so simple all you can really do is change colors and materials used. But the towers and the iMacs.... :(

I hope Apple doesn't simplify themselves out of the industrial design business. Not yet. They do seem to be getting a little lazy though.

http://apple-history.com/images/models/blueg3.gifhttp://apple-history.com/images/models/g4_2.jpghttp://apple-history.com/images/models/g4_quick.jpghttp://apple-history.com/images/models/g4_mdd.jpghttp://apple-history.com/images/models/g5.jpg

http://apple-history.com/images/models/imac_dv_se_side.jpghttp://apple-history.com/images/models/emac.jpghttp://apple-history.com/images/models/imac_flat_down.jpghttp://apple-history.com/images/models/imac_g5_isight.jpg