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MacRumors
Aug 7, 2006, 02:18 PM
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Although not mentioned during the keynote, Apple has reduced the prices on its Cinema Displays. The 20" Cinema Display now sells for $699 (down from $799), the 23" Cinema Display now sells for $999 (down from $1299), and the 30" Cinema Display now sells for $1999 (down from $2499), representing cuts of $100, $300, and $500 respectively.

Update: MacForum member BlizzardBomb notes that the specifications for the 20 and 23" displays have been bumped. The 20" display now has a brightness of 300 cd/m2 (up from 250 cd/m2), and the 23" display has a brightness of 400 cd/m2 (up from 270 cd/m2). Both models also now feature 700:1 contrast ratios (both up from 400:1). The 30" display remains at 400 cd/m2 and a 700:1 contrast ratio.

nagromme
Aug 7, 2006, 02:24 PM
New Intel towers could have made a good time for new displays too... but there's another good time coming up: new displays might come alongside Leopard, with higher DPI and full resolution-independent GUI?

Meanwhile, price drops are nice :)

Atlasland
Aug 7, 2006, 02:25 PM
Makes them a little more attractive to the penny concious buyer.

More importantly, cutting price of the current design signals the arrival of a new design in the not-too-distant-future.

Plymouthbreezer
Aug 7, 2006, 02:26 PM
Sweet. $500 for the 20" with the edu discount??

michaelrjohnson
Aug 7, 2006, 02:26 PM
Very nice to see. Can't complain.

balamw
Aug 7, 2006, 02:27 PM
As has been reported in other threads (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2692066&postcount=32) the specs appear to have been bumped too.

Better brightness and contrast are now reported for the 20" and 23".

B

andyblac
Aug 7, 2006, 02:51 PM
UK prices have not changed still 529 for the 20" and 779 for 23", i'm ready to buy a new Mac Pro 2.66 & a Cinema Display but not if the UK prices dont drop.

extraextra
Aug 7, 2006, 02:55 PM
I just saw a guy buy a 23" yesterday. Hope he got the new pricing for it!

dizastor
Aug 7, 2006, 02:57 PM
outstanding. Time to pounce on a new Mac Pro and a Cinema display.

mdntcallr
Aug 7, 2006, 03:05 PM
Sounds like a good idea. Clear out inventory. make some sales. As LCD prices come down, so should apple's list price.


But I am not into these models, I want a HDTV compliant model with speakers.

so i can watch HDTV via HDMI, ie plug in a blu-ray movie or watch HD directv.

give us HDMI with 1080P ability Apple.
with nice speakers, so we can have all in one!!

basically i want a tv/monitor

superleccy
Aug 7, 2006, 03:06 PM
UK prices have not changed still 529 for the 20" and 779 for 23", i'm ready to buy a new Mac Pro 2.66 & a Cinema Display but not if the UK prices dont drop.

Grrrrrrrrrrrr. Come on Apple. And God bless the BBC.

thedude110
Aug 7, 2006, 03:06 PM
Sweet. $500 for the 20" with the edu discount??

I wish.

edu discount has the 20" at $649.

KingYaba
Aug 7, 2006, 03:08 PM
Yeah and refurb lcs are even cheaper 599 for the 20" 849 for the 23" and its like 1699 for the 30"

Even more so with EDU discount (as stated above me)

sam10685
Aug 7, 2006, 03:15 PM
it's about time... the price is still kinda steep though...

nsjoker
Aug 7, 2006, 03:17 PM
Sweet. $500 for the 20" with the edu discount??

$649 w/ edu my friend

soosy
Aug 7, 2006, 03:29 PM
Unfortunately they are still seriously lacking in ports. Digital DVI only...no VGA, S-Video, etc with input toggle switch. No easy way to hook up an Xbox 360 for instance. Or to give the monitor a second life as a tv if you upgrade to larger displays.

I hope they change their stance on this because it's a deal breaker for me.

w_parietti22
Aug 7, 2006, 03:36 PM
Is there still a chance for an update?

Chupa Chupa
Aug 7, 2006, 03:37 PM
The 20" is still way over-priced.

BlizzardBomb
Aug 7, 2006, 03:38 PM
Is there still a chance for an update?

There were updates. (http://guides.macrumors.com/Apple_Cinema_Displays) Better brightness and contrast ratio on the 20" and 23".

Deefuzz
Aug 7, 2006, 03:40 PM
Price drops are always a good thing ;)

CEAbiscuit
Aug 7, 2006, 03:46 PM
Unfortunately they are still seriously lacking in ports. Digital DVI only...no VGA, S-Video, etc with input toggle switch. No easy way to hook up an Xbox 360 for instance. Or to give the monitor a second life as a tv if you upgrade to larger displays.

I hope they change their stance on this because it's a deal breaker for me.

Um, hate to say it, but the Dells have most of those things. My xbox is plugged in right along side my computer. Just hate that d*ll logo staring me in the face all the time.

turtlebud
Aug 7, 2006, 03:54 PM
price drop = good, improved specs = good, but i think they could have done better. i see the ACD as a premium monitor so I think they should at least be comparable a similar dell (in terms of specs). If you're looking for a 30", then the ACD is now a very good deal ($1999 vs $2149 and the specs are a little better on the ACD). Personally, I'm looking into the 23/24" monitor (though I wouldn't mind the 30". Here's what I see:

Dell - 24", 0.270 mm, 450 cd/m, 1000:1, 16 ms, $879 (on sale right now for $747)
Apple - 23", 0.258 mm, 400 cd/m, 700:1, 14 ms, $999 ($899 through edu store)

The price drop and improved specs are good, but it's too bad that they don't match or exceed the dell monitors in all categories - maybe I'm just expecting too much. Oh well, a guy can dream right?

balamw
Aug 7, 2006, 03:57 PM
it's too bad that they don't match or exceed the dell monitors in all categories
You're free to dream, but they don't plan to meet or exceed the Dell in number of units sold, so I wouldn't expect them to meet or exceed them on price either.

B

nagromme
Aug 7, 2006, 03:57 PM
There were updates. (http://guides.macrumors.com/Apple_Cinema_Displays) Better brightness and contrast ratio on the 20" and 23".
Someone said those brightness updates happened weeks ago. True?

Nice either way!

I too am holding out for a true next generation... maybe with new larger sizes, iSight, or new connectivity. But if I needed a display now, it's not as easy to choose a Dell anymore :)

appleforever
Aug 7, 2006, 04:02 PM
Sweet. $500 for the 20" with the edu discount??


What school. I logged in under education and it is $649 for the 20".

andyblac
Aug 7, 2006, 04:04 PM
the specs for the UK model has NOT been updated UK Specs (http://www.apple.com/uk/displays/specs.html) compared to the US model US Specs (http://www.apple.com/displays/specs.html)

ipacmm
Aug 7, 2006, 04:21 PM
I might be picking up a new 30" ADC now. :)

spicyapple
Aug 7, 2006, 04:21 PM
Remember, the original 22" Cinema Display sold for $3999. And at the time, buying one in Canada with an exchange rate of 1.5 meant the lcd sold for nearly $6,000 CDN. :eek:

$2000 for 30" LCD... haha that's cheap! :D

HiRez
Aug 7, 2006, 04:24 PM
The 20" is still way over-priced.I agree, I just picked up a pretty nice 19" LG for $299. Would I rather have a 20" Cinema Display? Yes, but for over 2X the price it's not even a consideration. Still way overpriced. Even the Sonys are considerably less expensive.

thl
Aug 7, 2006, 04:45 PM
Let's go for the 23 inch:)
Pricedrop and better specs, that's all I wanted

Stridder44
Aug 7, 2006, 05:41 PM
So is contrast ratio just mean it can be brighter (700:1 compaired to 400:1)?

crazydreaming
Aug 7, 2006, 05:48 PM
The new educational pricing of the 23" makes it $899 now. That makes it much closer to the dell 24" price. Somewhere in the future (most likely far :p ) I want to buy a big display to go with my powerbook and use with my photography. I thought that display would be the 24" dell because the cinema was way more $$. However now, it's a much closer competition...

Object-X
Aug 7, 2006, 06:25 PM
Be careful when buying at an Apple Store that they don't pawn off on you the previous generation model. I was told by an employee that they were the same except for the price. If your not careful they may try to sell their existing stock at the reduced price. Buy online for now. I can't see a way to tell which model is current and which is prior, except for the obvious brightness.

Object-X
Aug 7, 2006, 06:25 PM
Be careful when buying at an Apple Store that they don't pawn off on you the previous generation model. I was told by an employee that they were the same except for the price. If your not careful they may try to sell their existing stock at the reduced price. Buy online for now. I can't see a way to tell which model is current and which is prior, except for the obvious brightness.

ipacmm
Aug 7, 2006, 06:31 PM
Be careful when buying at an Apple Store that they don't pawn off on you the previous generation model. I was told by an employee that they were the same except for the price. If your not careful they may try to sell their existing stock at the reduced price. Buy online for now. I can't see a way to tell which model is current and which is prior, except for the obvious brightness.

The cinema display's didn't change, all that changed was the price. So there isn't any "previous generation model" from what I understand.

mwswami
Aug 7, 2006, 06:37 PM
Makes them a little more attractive to the penny concious buyer.

More importantly, cutting price of the current design signals the arrival of a new design in the not-too-distant-future.

No IR sensor on Mac Pro seems to suggest that as well.

digitalbiker
Aug 7, 2006, 06:42 PM
it's about time... the price is still kinda steep though...

I agree. I don't know why Apple keeps charging a premium for these displays. LCD monitors have come down substantially in price and Apple just gives us these mediocre price breaks.

The Cinema displays are nice and well designed but not worth the extra cost.

aswitcher
Aug 7, 2006, 06:52 PM
New Intel towers could have made a good time for new displays too... but there's another good time coming up: new displays might come alongside Leopard, with higher DPI and full resolution-independent GUI?

Meanwhile, price drops are nice :)


And maybe inbuilt isight and even ir receiver.

aswitcher
Aug 7, 2006, 06:55 PM
price drop = good, improved specs = good,

The price drop and improved specs are good, but it's too bad that they don't match or exceed the dell monitors in all categories - maybe I'm just expecting too much. Oh well, a guy can dream right?


Given the Dell monitor has all those TV/video inputs as well,and can rotate to portrait mode,i think Apple is still over priced. Sure the alu shell is very nice but not for the extra cash and without these features.

stoid
Aug 7, 2006, 06:58 PM
The cinema display's didn't change, all that changed was the price. So there isn't any "previous generation model" from what I understand.

Did you miss the part about brighter and greater contrast ratio? :confused:

RichP
Aug 7, 2006, 07:01 PM
Hmm..I wonder if this means that we wont see the issues plaguing the 23"s (poor color, banding, etc etc etc)

If so, time to make an upgrade!

stoid
Aug 7, 2006, 07:05 PM
Hmm..I wonder if this means that we wont see the issues plaguing the 23"s (poor color, banding, etc etc etc)

If so, time to make an upgrade!

I called my local Apple Store and the guy I talked to didn't even know that there were 'new' monitors. So I ordered mine online, pronto!

zane
Aug 7, 2006, 07:24 PM
making the acds a higher resolution definitely means that there will be new ones soon just like the powerbooks screen before the macbook pro

gootz
Aug 7, 2006, 07:24 PM
I called my local Apple Store and the guy I talked to didn't even know that there were 'new' monitors. So I ordered mine online, pronto!

Yeah, I'm paying cash so I'm calling my local Apple store tonight (Stoneridge Pleasanton) to see if they have the newer ones? I doubt it, they always lag on the new stuff. I've been holding off on buying now for a few weeks... Thank god!

mandis
Aug 7, 2006, 07:29 PM
Woooohoooo! Now the 20" ACDs go for around 410.00 (with edu discount)!! ;)

I'm buying two in September!! :D

gootz
Aug 7, 2006, 07:50 PM
Yeah, I'm paying cash so I'm calling my local Apple store tonight (Stoneridge Pleasanton) to see if they have the newer ones? I doubt it, they always lag on the new stuff. I've been holding off on buying now for a few weeks... Thank god!

So I talk to the Apple store dude who knows nothing about any updates except price. Whay are the chances the ACD I buy tonight is a newer model? How long do I wait?:rolleyes:

thegreatluke
Aug 7, 2006, 07:59 PM
What school. I logged in under education and it is $649 for the 20".
Apple is usually slow to update things like Education pricing etc.

The Edu price will go down within a few days. :)

iMikeT
Aug 7, 2006, 08:15 PM
Here comes my 23" display.

stoid
Aug 7, 2006, 08:18 PM
making the acds a higher resolution definitely means that there will be new ones soon just like the powerbooks screen before the macbook pro

Well then I guess it's awhile until we get new ACDs then, since the resolution stayed the same.

stoid
Aug 7, 2006, 08:21 PM
Apple is usually slow to update things like Education pricing etc.

The Edu price will go down within a few days. :)

The old edu discount on the 20 inch was $699 (yesterday and this morning), so unless Apple drops the price AGAIN.

The price drops for the 20 and 23 inch are as follows

size old (edu) -> new (edu)
20" 799 (699) -> 699 (649)
23" 1299 (1099) -> 999 (899)

I'm not sure on the 30", but I reckon it followed a similar pattern.

wnurse
Aug 7, 2006, 08:26 PM
Makes them a little more attractive to the penny concious buyer.

More importantly, cutting price of the current design signals the arrival of a new design in the not-too-distant-future.

20' for $699?. I bought the dell version a year and a half ago for $600. Wow, yeah, sure puts the scare into Dell.. Dell is practically giving away their 20 inches now. No thanks, I'll take my 699, add a few more dollars and get a Dell 23 inch.

One good thing, Apple 30 inch is now cheaper than Dell's!!!.. If I had the money for a 30 inch (man, oh man) this would definetly be a deal for me. Oh well.

Anyone want to donate a $1 towards my "Get a 30 inch apple display" Foundation?. You'll get a tax writeoff!!.. All i need is 2000 people donating $1 each.

deadpoet
Aug 7, 2006, 08:29 PM
The Apple Cinema Displays are expensive, but these are high-end professional grade LCDs. If you're going to be using them only to surf the web and watch TV then your money is wasted -- go and get a cheap Dell instead.

I know what I'll get when I'm looking for an LCD for my graphics work.
Take a look at this report:
http://images.apple.com/pro/pdf/AppleReport2005_rc1_051214.pdf

We use EIZO and Apple Cinema Display LCDs at work (we do web and print design and photography/digital imaging), and they are worth every dollar. We would not settle for anything less.

So in conclusion: for gaming and general web surfing, get a cheap consumer LCD. For serious graphics work, design and digital imaging, get a high-end LCD from trusted makers such as Apple, LaCie or EIZO.

I'm sick of people whining about the Apple Cinema Displays and how Apple is "ripping" people off. Booohooo. If you're complaining, then the ACD isn't meant for you. And if you think the ACDs cost a lot, you haven't seen the prices for the EIZOs!

wnurse
Aug 7, 2006, 08:33 PM
The Apple Cinema Displays are expensive, but these are high-end professional grade LCDs. If you're going to be using them only to surf the web and watch TV then your money is wasted -- go and get a cheap Dell instead.

I know what I'll get when I'm looking for an LCD for my graphics work.
Take a look at this report:
http://images.apple.com/pro/pdf/AppleReport2005_rc1_051214.pdf

We use EIZO and Apple Cinema Display LCDs at work (we do web and print design and photography/digital imaging), and they are worth every dollar. We would not settle for anything less.

So in conclusion: for gaming and general web surfing, get a cheap consumer LCD. For serious graphics work, design and digital imaging, get a high-end LCD from trusted makers such as Apple, LaCie or EIZO.

I'm sick of people whining about the Apple Cinema Displays and how Apple is "ripping" people off. Booohooo. If you're complaining, then the ACD isn't meant for you. And if you think the ACDs cost a lot, you haven't seen the prices for the EIZOs!

Dell monitors use the exact same panel as the apple monitors do and the Dells have more features.. I think you meant that the Dells are professional grade monitors just like apple but if you want to waste your money, buy an apple display, if you want to actually save some bucks, buy a Dell.
Don't worry, you can thank me later for correcting you. Just donate $1 to my "get a 30 inch apple display" foundation. Thanks.

stoid
Aug 7, 2006, 08:48 PM
Dell monitors use the exact same panel as the apple monitors do and the Dells have more features..

If Dell uses the same panel, how do they fit the 23" panel in the 24" enclosure without an inch border? Or how does Apple shrink the 24" panel to fit in a 23" frame?

Also how does Dell claim higher contrast ratios and greater brightness?

Dell and Apple may use the same panel manufacturer, but clearly they are NOT identical panels.

wnurse
Aug 7, 2006, 09:00 PM
If Dell uses the same panel, how do they fit the 23" panel in the 24" enclosure without an inch border? Or how does Apple shrink the 24" panel to fit in a 23" frame?

Also how does Dell claim higher contrast ratios and greater brightness?

Dell and Apple may use the same panel manufacturer, but clearly they are NOT identical panels.

Yes, obviously a 23 inch and a 24 inch cannot be the same panel. You are such a genius. But I wonder.. can a 30 inch apple and a 30 inch dell be the same panel?.. how about a 20 inch apple and a 20 inch dell?.
But forget all about that.. Are you saying the manufacturer gives apple the superior panels and leave the rejects for Dell?.. So cause Dell panel is 24 inch, they suck compared to apple 23 inch cause logically, since they are not the same size, it implies the Dell panel sucks!!!...

We must all get together and donate a nobel prize to you. You are such a genius, you make Einstein pale in comparison.

I don't want to leave you hanging but here's what happens.. The manufacter makes the panels. They cut a panel to apple specs and then the make the exact same panel (or one like it, hopefully, this manufacturer has quality control like every other company and can reproduce panels to exact specifications) and cuts the same panel to 24 inch to dell specifications.
Simple enough for you Einstein?.

stoid
Aug 7, 2006, 09:07 PM
Yes, obviously a 23 inch and a 24 inch cannot be the same panel. You are such a genius. But I wonder.. can a 30 inch apple and a 30 inch dell be the same panel?.. how about a 20 inch apple and a 20 inch dell?.
But forget all about that.. Are you saying the manufacturer gives apple the superior panels and leave the rejects for Dell?.. So cause Dell panel is 24 inch, they suck compared to apple 23 inch cause logically, since they are not the same size, it implies the Dell panel sucks!!!...

We must all get together and donate a nobel prize to you. You are such a genius, you make Einstein pale in comparison.

I don't want to leave you hanging but here's what happens.. The manufacter makes the panels. They cut a panel to apple specs and then the make the exact same panel (or one like it, hopefully, this manufacturer has quality control like every other company) and cuts the same panel to 24 inch to dell specifications.
Simple enough for you Einstein?.

Did you bother to read my whole post? Or were you too excited upon you first glorious revelation?

And maybe I'm not familiar enough with the LCD production process, but I understood that the pixel size was part of the panel so a 24 inch slab would have more pixels than a 23 inch slab. Both monitors have the same resolution.

I also asked how Dell claims greater contrast ratio and brightness (800:1 and 300cd/m2 on the 20 inch) than the Apple? Either someone's lying, or they aren't using identical parts.

edit: BTW, I'm just asking some simple questions trying to clear up my own confusion, there's no need to be a prick

Multimedia
Aug 7, 2006, 09:48 PM
Anyone Here Think We Should Buy Dell 30" Displays Instead? They are still a lot less money with more inputs. :)

Timepass
Aug 7, 2006, 09:51 PM
Did you bother to read my whole post? Or were you too excited upon you first glorious revelation?

And maybe I'm not familiar enough with the LCD production process, but I understood that the pixel size was part of the panel so a 24 inch slab would have more pixels than a 23 inch slab. Both monitors have the same resolution.

I also asked how Dell claims greater contrast ratio and brightness (800:1 and 300cd/m2 on the 20 inch) than the Apple? Either someone's lying, or they aren't using identical parts.

edit: BTW, I'm just asking some simple questions trying to clear up my own confusion, there's no need to be a prick

umm no neither is lying. They both are using the same panel but DIFFERENT backlights. Dell back lights are brighter so it allows for a larger contrast ratio and more cd/m2

edit: The panel is pretty much just a color filter. It takes the white light from the back light and filters it colors for what you see on the screen (it more complex than that but it is the simplest way to explain it)

theregoesmybus
Aug 7, 2006, 10:00 PM
I purchase an Apple 30" display 2 1/2 weeks ago for $2499. Before I think about calling Apple, anyone have any thoughts on whether they would issue a refund for the difference? Or suggestions on how to ask?

Thanks, Andy

BenRoethig
Aug 8, 2006, 12:22 AM
Still way too expensive.

wnurse
Aug 8, 2006, 12:25 AM
Did you bother to read my whole post? Or were you too excited upon you first glorious revelation?

And maybe I'm not familiar enough with the LCD production process, but I understood that the pixel size was part of the panel so a 24 inch slab would have more pixels than a 23 inch slab. Both monitors have the same resolution.

I also asked how Dell claims greater contrast ratio and brightness (800:1 and 300cd/m2 on the 20 inch) than the Apple? Either someone's lying, or they aren't using identical parts.

edit: BTW, I'm just asking some simple questions trying to clear up my own confusion, there's no need to be a prick

Who said anything about Dell claiming greater contrast. Which of my post said that Dell claimed greater contrast ratio and brightness?. I would never make that claim (The dell website claims that the Dell 24 inch is 700:1 contrast, same as the Apple panels, which just got that upgrade while the Dell panels where that for a while). As to brightness, Dell 24 inch is 400 cd/m2 while the apple 23 inch is also 400 cd/m2. I'm neither a Dell fanboy nor an apple fanboy (as i so fondly point out time after time, i have a apple power G5 mac with a 20 inch Dell monitor). I would never make claims such as Dell monitor is better than Apple monitor unless I knew that to be true.. I pointed out that they used the same panels. Yes, the size may be different but they come off the same manufacturing line. To see Dell specs, here is the link for the 24 inch http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=222-0863

They are the same panels except notice Dell has more features which puzzles me greatly. Apple wants to charge a premium for their monitor and that is fine with me but come on!!!.. have more features than the other guy please!!!.. you know how annonying it is for a Dell fanboy to come up to you and say.. hey, our monitor is the same but mine is better and cheaper (better in terms of more features, not brightness or contrast). If you think features don't matter, you are living in la la land. I like the fact that i can hook up more things to my Dell monitor than i could have with an apple monitor. If the apple monitor was more versatile and offered more features, i'd consider paying the premium but i am not gonna get an overpriced apple monitor cause stevie says so.. I don't see him offering me rides on his boat.. why the hell should i get trapped in his reality distortion field?. Give me something better and i will gladly hand over my money to Stevie so he can get a bigger boat (and without any complaints).

As to my first glorius revelation, you must be a newbie. you should search for my name in other apple forums. I don't suffer fools gladly (or people who reply to a post too quickly). When i post, i do not expect an instantaneous response. It's ok to google the information before you respond. I can wait!!. If you don't know or understand, say so but do not try to make a point about something you don't know about. You replied to one of my post about how wrong I was that dell and apple were using the same panel and now you claim you don't know about the lcd production process?.. and you complain about me being mean?.. you leave yourself open to such an attack when you start making statements you have no idea are true or not.

Google is a great resource.. I don't know everything either (i wish i did but unfortunately, time is finite and my brain only has so much capacity).. but I always research stuff on google before posting. It helps (also helps to view the company you are bashing website to see their monitor specs before posting).

BTW, since the apple 30 inch is definetly a better value than Dell 30 inch (although i am sure Michael will not take that lying down.. watch for dell to suddenly drop prices on their monitors) i am soliciting funds to my "get a apple 30 inch monitor" foundation. I get the feeling i will not be seeing your dollar. Oh well. Maybe I haven't antagonized everyone in all the forums and i can get some donations to my wonderful foundation (whoose sole purpose is to get me a 30 inch apple monitor).

Fearless Leader
Aug 8, 2006, 12:35 AM
go apple for having the 30" as cheap or cheaper than every one else. now the other models are getting better. most 20" are sub 300, 24" sub 800. if i had 2000 to spend the apple 30" is my choice.

the 20 isnt appeal cuase i just bought a 19wide for 170.

Fearless Leader
Aug 8, 2006, 12:36 AM
Anyone Here Think We Should Buy Dell 30" Displays Instead? They are still a lot less money with more inputs. :)

umm dell's 30" is 200 more...

luismagda94
Aug 8, 2006, 01:00 AM
Just checked Dell's 30" and apart from the built-in card reader (woohoo) and a USB Upstream port and a slightly faster response time 11 ms vs. 14 ms, the two are nearly identical. Apple's has two firewire ports and looks a lot cleaner and more elegant and is $200 cheaper.

Now if Dell drops their price by $500, then the $300 price difference might make the Dell version tempting again.

Nah, I like beauty, even if it costs a little extra.

daneoni
Aug 8, 2006, 01:57 AM
I think they should have dropped the Cinema Display updates now. We need adjustability. The drop in prices still won't make me consider one....Dells are still a better deal to be honest.

br-
Aug 8, 2006, 02:36 AM
The Cinema Displays aren't for general consumers like most of you posting in this thread. They're for professionals who need even backlighting, excellent color accuracy, and a large viewing angle. That's why Apple charges a premium for them. If you don't care about these things get a Dell.

However, Apple monitors (especially the 23") have had issues with a pink/yellow hue. Hopefully these issues are resolved with the new panels.

Evangelion
Aug 8, 2006, 04:03 AM
The Cinema Displays aren't for general consumers like most of you posting in this thread. They're for professionals who need even backlighting, excellent color accuracy, and a large viewing angle. That's why Apple charges a premium for them. If you don't care about these things get a Dell.

What makes you think that you can't get those features in a Dell? Do you have any facts?

aleck
Aug 8, 2006, 04:07 AM
The real problem with ACD is that they don't have HDCP in the DVIs. Bying such a large monitor (I'm targeting 23") is 5-year investment. And bying one now, without HDCP is a wasted money because in 2 years HD movies would be mainstream and you could not watch them on that nice big monitor you bought.

I was hoping Apple would present new ones now, but I guess it's not in the immediate plans.

20" is still way too overpriced for the qualities it offers. That LG.Philips S-IPS panel has nice colours, but so is P-MVA in the Viewsonic wide range, with added benefit of being GBP150 cheaper in UK.

macaddict23
Aug 8, 2006, 04:35 AM
A $500 reduction on the Apple 30" is great, but what else does this mean? Apple wants to remain competitive? Is it to clear out inventory for new displays? I've been wanting to buy one of these 30" monitors ever since they came out. My friend, who works for Apple here in Elk Grove, CA can use his discount to buy to buy the monitor for $1499 (before taxes). That's a heck of a deal! But at the same time, I can wait 1–2 months if I know that Apple will come out with a new design.

danny_boy
Aug 8, 2006, 05:46 AM
the specs for the UK model has NOT been updated UK Specs (http://www.apple.com/uk/displays/specs.html) compared to the US model US Specs (http://www.apple.com/displays/specs.html)

Will the UK get the updated Apple Cinema Displays specs? As well as the price drops? I'm looking to get either a 20" or 23" display with educational discount before going back to Uni in Sept.

Danny

blonde redhead
Aug 8, 2006, 06:19 AM
umm no neither is lying. They both are using the same panel but DIFFERENT backlights. Dell back lights are brighter so it allows for a larger contrast ratio and more cd/m2

edit: The panel is pretty much just a color filter. It takes the white light from the back light and filters it colors for what you see on the screen (it more complex than that but it is the simplest way to explain it)


Sorry to say this, but you're simplifying things too much. Just because a monitor has the same size/resolution, doesn't mean that the LCD sources are identical.

FYI, Apple is using LCDs from Lg.Philips, Dell's LCDs come from Samsung. As a matter of fact, the 30" from Samsung for example is an exact copy of the Lg.Philips panel that they developed for Apple: same module dimensions (even fixation holes), electrical interface, etc.
Because Dell is doing copy-paste, some of the specs are indeed identical. However, Apple displays use IPS (in-plane switching) LCD technology, while Samsung uses PVA (patterned vertical alignment). Consequence of this is that optical specs are slightly different:
- higher brightness for Dell (because of higher LCD transmission of PVA)
- higher contrast for Dell (but only perpendicular: contrast decreases very rapidly if you look off-axis at PVA-based panels)
- superior color stability for Apple (large color shift with viewing angle for PVA, especially for grey tones)

The latter characteristic is why Apple chooses for Lg.Philips, and why Apple displays are better for graphical applications, despite the slightly lower specifications on paper.

glassbathroom
Aug 8, 2006, 06:19 AM
This is great news. We asked for it and we got it. Thanks Apple.

stoid
Aug 8, 2006, 07:20 AM
Sorry to say this, but you're simplifying things too much. Just because a monitor has the same size/resolution, doesn't mean that the LCD sources are identical.

FYI, Apple is using LCDs from Lg.Philips, Dell's LCDs come from Samsung. As a matter of fact, the 30" from Samsung for example is an exact copy of the Lg.Philips panel that they developed for Apple: same module dimensions (even fixation holes), electrical interface, etc.
Because Dell is doing copy-paste, some of the specs are indeed identical. However, Apple displays use IPS (in-plane switching) LCD technology, while Samsung uses PVA (patterned vertical alignment). Consequence of this is that optical specs are slightly different:
- higher brightness for Dell (because of higher LCD transmission of PVA)
- higher contrast for Dell (but only perpendicular: contrast decreases very rapidly if you look off-axis at PVA-based panels)
- superior color stability for Apple (large color shift with viewing angle for PVA, especially for grey tones)

The latter characteristic is why Apple chooses for Lg.Philips, and why Apple displays are better for graphical applications, despite the slightly lower specifications on paper.

Be careful! wnurse may not have gotten a nap, and can get very cranky when people point out differences between Dell and Apple monitors. ;)

Seriously though, wnurse, lighten up and chill out! :cool:

patseguin
Aug 8, 2006, 08:24 AM
I hope this means that they have eliminated the pink cast (and other issues) in the 23" ACD.

wnurse
Aug 8, 2006, 08:32 AM
Be careful! wnurse may not have gotten a nap, and can get very cranky when people point out differences between Dell and Apple monitors. ;)

Seriously though, wnurse, lighten up and chill out! :cool:

Actually stoid, i really don't care about Dell monitors or Apple's for that matter. It's not a religious matter to me. I'm apple worst nightmare. A customer that is not passionate about their products. I would drop apple in a minute if something better comes along or something just as good with a cheaper price (hence the dell monitor). I just hate to read people making comments like "if you think apple monitors are expensive, enjoy your sucky dell monitor". It's annonying and childish. You have no idea on the quality of Dell or anyone else monitor. That was not the bad part.. that's ok, not everyone knows everything.. then when someone points out something to you, you attack without any facts. Maybe I was rough with you but I think my initial post was gentle.. I only got rough when you when into auto robot apple fanboy mode.
Apple fans are supposed to be different, think different. I thought that meant using our brains and being smarter than the average mindless pc sheep. To me, apple fans are mindless sheep just like the PC users, except they like apple products. I'm a user of apple products and unless windows dramatically improves, i intend to continue buying apple computers but it doesn't blind me to specific faults of the system. Just as I appreciate Apple strengths, I am aware of their weaknesses. Saying an Apple monitor is affordable is disingenius. This attitude is what has allowed apple to basically steal our money because they know the apple fanbase will not protest. I don't mind paying a premium for apple computers (actually, i did pay a hefty premium for my G5 computer) but paying a premium for a monitor?.. what?.. apple monitors crash less than Dells? (tongue in cheek here.. i know monitors don't crash). Maybe Apple monitors do not contract viruses as often as Dells (haha, funny). I mean, other than a nice case and the apple logo, exactly what am i paying for here?. I guess I would stop bitching if Apple made a 30 inch for graphic professionals and a 30 inch for the rest of us (although i doubt the Dell panels cost less than the apple panels so that might not be a price break anyway). It breaks my heart really that i had to resort to getting a Dell monitor (actually, at the time, Dell 20 inches were $609, apple 20 inch was over $1200). I couldn't imagine paying twice for basically the same thing but with an apple logo and a nice case.

stoid
Aug 8, 2006, 08:46 AM
I just hate to read people making comments like "if you think apple monitors are expensive, enjoy your sucky dell monitor". It's annonying and childish.

Please tell me where I said that I thought that Apple monitors were better than Dell monitors in anything other than asthetics? I have not made any claim anywhere!

All I said was that tech specs in some places were listed different so something about the panel seems to be different. Yes I bought an Apple monitor, yes I'm an Apple fanboy because I like the look of their electronics, but no I never stated that Apple's monitors were functionally better. On the contrary my statements are to the effect that Dell montiors show functionally better specs, so logically aren't they (not Apple) using the better panel.

Also, what say you to blonde redhead's post about Apple and Dell using different suppliers? Is that correct, or more disinformation.

Get off your soap box, have a cup of tea (or whatever will calm your attitude) and let's have a civil discussion.

gugy
Aug 8, 2006, 11:50 AM
Guys, I must be missing something.
Everybody is saying here that Dell 30" monitors are cheaper than Apple's 30"
Check the link bellow and you'll see that is actually more:

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&sku=222-0863

I understand that maybe there are rebates and so on, but seriously I rather pay more for an Apple display than a Dell. First the design of Apple is better and second I can get Applecare included if I purchase it with a ProMac or PowerMac.

I am not going to discuss the specs of each display. I rather see each side by side to analyze which is better.

Patch^
Aug 8, 2006, 12:05 PM
is it me or has the 20" ACD just dropped by 20 and still has the same specs as before?

Why has is dropped by $100 in the US and got better specs? o well, maybe they being lazy to update it or get rid of old stock. I think there will be some new ACDs coming soon and the Dells seem quite tempting at the moment.

davepoint
Aug 8, 2006, 12:06 PM
So am I right in thinking that the 23" now has a new 'panel' - so there shouldn't be pink cast etc issues with these new ones?
Also seeing as they're cutting the prices is it worth waiting for true next gen monitors or what...

gugy
Aug 8, 2006, 12:15 PM
I have an old 23" monitor and it's flawless.
I heard about people having issues, but I guess I am a lucky guy.

MacSedgley
Aug 8, 2006, 01:05 PM
I managed scrape together enough money together for a 20 incher and a mini last year (1000). They gave me the wrong box (a 23") which was the nicest thing thats ever happened to me.

Its a lovely screen, but the colours are all over the place (and people should be very wary when using front row with the macbook linked to a cinema - for some reason it doesnt go to sleep, and this could lead to some nasty screen burn.)

A decent screen is a big investment - you would expect a good LCD to last you at least 5 years if your paying a grand for it. At the moment, Dell's is much better value in my book, even though it is hideously ugly.

Anyone tried the new NECs?

davepoint
Aug 8, 2006, 01:33 PM
By the way - the apple uk store lists the 23" as 779 - yet earlier in this thread people were saying that the prices had not yet dropped..I was under the impression that 779 was the reduced price..is it going down further or are the wrong?

ShnikeJSB
Aug 8, 2006, 01:35 PM
...and this could lead to some nasty screen burn.)

I was under the impression LCD's can't GET "Burn-In"... And that they MIGHT get "Image Persistance", which isn't permanent.

thl
Aug 8, 2006, 01:40 PM
Does anyone knows what happens when you orde an ACD online en you notice that there are deadpixels? Do you get a new one or do you have to keep the one with the deadpixels?

MacSedgley
Aug 8, 2006, 01:48 PM
I was under the impression LCD's can't GET "Burn-In"... And that they MIGHT get "Image Persistance", which isn't permanent.

I stand corrected. 'Image Persistance' took about a week to go away on mine, and it was left on front row for about an hour.

HelloKitty
Aug 8, 2006, 02:02 PM
I think the new specs and price cuts are good. I'm so tempted in buying one 23" with a new Mac Pro..

But somehow I think that Apple will come up with a new Mac Pro (new case enclosure) with new lineup of Apple Cinema Display in Spring 2007. Does anyone agree with me?..

Boy..I really don't know what to do now..

gugy
Aug 8, 2006, 02:14 PM
I think the new specs and price cuts are good. I'm so tempted in buying one 23" with a new Mac Pro..

But somehow I think that Apple will come up with a new Mac Pro (new case enclosure) with new lineup of Apple Cinema Display in Spring 2007. Does anyone agree with me?..

Boy..I really don't know what to do now..


If you really need it now, buy it.
I don't think any major cosmetic design on the enclosure is happening anytime soon as well as the displays. The current designs are just beautiful. Plus the extra space now for hard drives and optical drive just make me think Apple will keep the same look for awhile.
Only in 2008 maybe they will update IMHO.

dante@sisna.com
Aug 8, 2006, 03:51 PM
Yes, obviously a 23 inch and a 24 inch cannot be the same panel. You are such a genius. But I wonder.. can a 30 inch apple and a 30 inch dell be the same panel?.. how about a 20 inch apple and a 20 inch dell?.
But forget all about that.. Are you saying the manufacturer gives apple the superior panels and leave the rejects for Dell?.. So cause Dell panel is 24 inch, they suck compared to apple 23 inch cause logically, since they are not the same size, it implies the Dell panel sucks!!!...

We must all get together and donate a nobel prize to you. You are such a genius, you make Einstein pale in comparison.

I don't want to leave you hanging but here's what happens.. The manufacter makes the panels. They cut a panel to apple specs and then the make the exact same panel (or one like it, hopefully, this manufacturer has quality control like every other company and can reproduce panels to exact specifications) and cuts the same panel to 24 inch to dell specifications.
Simple enough for you Einstein?.

Hello "Einstein," -- while the panels may be the same, and they are, you should do a bit more research before tagging others with hostility.

The color management of Apple Cinema HD is superior to that of the Dell due to firmware differences and interaction with Colorsync in the actual OS. We do high-end color management on both 23 and 30" Cinema HD's -- we have a Dell 24 inch as well. Without custom profiles the Dell pales in comparision to the Mac Cinema HD's -- Even with a Custom Profile the Dell is less useful to us as most of our nationwide clients have Mac OS systems with Cinema HD's -- we can send a digital proof and insure that our client sees what we see thanks to the firmware/OS Sync.

In this respects Dells are very expensive monitors for us to use as they force us to burn physical color prints and FEDEX to clients. We cannot afford this in our job costs. So for our business we'll take the Cheaper, Superior Apple Cinema HD's over the less predictable, more expensive Dell's.

You really should consider all angles before bashing.

DJO

drlunanerd
Aug 8, 2006, 04:07 PM
Hello "Einstein," -- while the panels may be the same, and they are, you should do a bit more research before tagging others with hostility.

The color management of Apple Cinema HD is superior to that of the Dell due to firmware differences and interaction with Colorsync in the actual OS. We do high-end color management on both 23 and 30" Cinema HD's -- we have a Dell 24 inch as well. Without custom profiles the Dell pales in comparision to the Mac Cinema HD's -- Even with a Custom Profile the Dell is less useful to us as most of our nationwide clients have Mac OS systems with Cinema HD's -- we can send a digital proof and insure that our client sees what we see thanks to the firmware/OS Sync.

In this respects Dells are very expensive monitors for us to use as they force us to burn physical color prints and FEDEX to clients. We cannot afford this in our job costs. So for our business we'll take the Cheaper, Superior Apple Cinema HD's over the less predictable, more expensive Dell's.

You really should consider all angles before bashing.

DJO

Does this superior colour management include the horrendous pink colour casts the 23" ACD is notorious for?

Of course if all your clients are using ACDs then it makes your job easier. Your logic is flawed as this does not mean ACDs are therefore superior monitors.

nsbio
Aug 8, 2006, 06:39 PM
The apple store at Southpoint (Durham, NC) has no new hardware yet:( . Worse, out of the four (maybe five - might have missed one) 23'' displays two are obviously pink. I even pointed that to one of their geniuses about a month ago. She had responded, "yeah, I see that", but the same pink displays are still there to see... Is that ignorance or arrogance, I wonder.

Hopefully, they will soon be replaced with defect-free ones from the new iteration.

macenforcer
Aug 8, 2006, 07:50 PM
Just picked up the 30" today. WOW!

This monitor is so choice. If you have the means, I highly suggest you pick one up.

- (Ferris Bueller)

daneoni
Aug 9, 2006, 09:02 AM
Im quite torn. The 20" Cinema Display is cheaper than the dell BUT the limited adjustability is turning me off plus the fact that the UK specs are still yet to be updated. The Dell is an obvious better buy but it just doesn't look as good as the Cinema Display and its resale value won't be close to that of the Cinema Display.

I dont know why apple made the adjustibilty so limited. Even steve tends to bend his head at times to see the display he uses properly.

Sigh i dunno......

daneoni
Aug 9, 2006, 09:12 AM
UK specs have been updated.

andyblac
Aug 9, 2006, 11:58 AM
UK specs have been updated.

:), just ordered myself a Mac Pro 2.66 with 20" ACD. shipping on the 15th August :D

emw
Aug 9, 2006, 12:09 PM
Does this superior colour management include the horrendous pink colour casts the 23" ACD is notorious for?This has been a continual problem with the 23". With decent color management you can "fix" the cast by changing the RGB values sent to the monitor in an effort to counterbalance the pink. This has limitations, however, and tends to impact the overall consistency of color reproduction.

Most color-savvy companies will agree that the 20" and especially the 30" are more suited to color-managed workflows. Hopefully this new generation fixes that.

Viking Quest
Aug 9, 2006, 12:23 PM
Hey guys quick question:

Is it possible to plug an Xbox 360 into one of the Apple displays? I'm looking into getting the 20inch at the new reduced price.

Thanks for your help!

bowens
Aug 9, 2006, 12:29 PM
I would love to have an Apple display, but I just can't make myselft spend $700 for a 20". I bought a 19" LCD a few months ago for $139. It's also got a 3 year warranty.

davepoint
Aug 9, 2006, 12:31 PM
This has been a continual problem with the 23". With decent color management you can "fix" the cast by changing the RGB values sent to the monitor in an effort to counterbalance the pink. This has limitations, however, and tends to impact the overall consistency of color reproduction.

Most color-savvy companies will agree that the 20" and especially the 30" are more suited to color-managed workflows. Hopefully this new generation fixes that.

The pink cast etc are the main things holding me back, and even if they are 'really' fixed with this revision there's still the dodginess of whether or not you're getting a new or old revision. I suppose if you buy direct from the apple store that would be less of an issue but then it's a hassle if you need to return it etc

zooey91
Aug 9, 2006, 12:37 PM
OK, since the specs changed on the 23" but the model number stayed the same (M9178LL/A), how can I tell whether the monitor that I ordered from Apple is old stock or new?

Jim

emw
Aug 9, 2006, 12:42 PM
I'd hope that anything purchased online would be new stock, since it lists the new specs at the store.

The only way to really tell would be to test it when you received it, or if someone had a some way to identify new model serial numbers.

RichP
Aug 9, 2006, 12:59 PM
Im waiting to see what the revision brings, and if the panel actually changed. I had the pink cast issue on the 23s I owned, and, even worse, it takes time to develop, which makes a quick return and replace impossible, as apple then considers them "repairable" and not eligible for a return.

For all we know, they could have had the new specs for some time, and now they are advertising it.

Anyone with a "new" 23?

bitfactory
Aug 9, 2006, 01:10 PM
I'm apple worst nightmare.

[sic]

I'll give you one of those words.

faketom
Aug 9, 2006, 04:43 PM
Just ordered a 30" with my Mac Pro. Stuck with the stock graphics card however. It was a huge decision of whether to go for the single 30" or the two 23" displays - which is actually cheaper. Did I make the right choice?
Anybody who has a 30" have anything good or bad:( to say about them?

stoid
Aug 9, 2006, 04:54 PM
Anyone with a "new" 23?

I ordered the 'new' 23 inch display within 30 minutes of the store being back online, and I just unpacked it. Having no frame of reference to compare to an 'old' 23 inch, I can say that it is ridiculously bright and clear, has no pink cast whatsoever, and from a first careful look over it, 0 dead pixels!

Hopefully no pink cast will develop (I've had it plugged in for about 10 minutes now.

I'm off to get one of those dead pixel checker programs...

Links
Aug 9, 2006, 06:49 PM
Would someone who bought what they assume to be the newer
version of this display with improve brightness and contrast
please post part of your serial number.

Mine: 2A6211XXXXX (Xs represents the rest of my number)
date of manufacture: May 2006

Determined from the decoder at:
http://www.chipmunk.nl/klantenservice/applemodel.html

I'm trying to detemine if the one I just bought is in this new batch.
And if it isn't I want to return it quickly.
I have 15 days to return it and exchange if I don't want this display to the store
where I bought it (not from an Apple store).

stoid
Aug 9, 2006, 06:54 PM
Would someone who bought what they assume to be the newer
version of this display with improve brightness and contrast
please post part of your serial number.

Mine: 2A6211XXXXX (Xs represents the rest of my number)
date of manufacture: May 2006

Determined from the decoder at:
http://www.chipmunk.nl/klantenservice/applemodel.html

I'm trying to detemine if the one I just bought is in this new batch.
And if it isn't I want to return it quickly.
I have 15 days to return it and exchange if I don't want this display to the store
where I bought it (not from an Apple store).

Mine is 2A6241XXXXX
manufacture date: June 2006

Links
Aug 9, 2006, 07:00 PM
Mine is 2A6241XXXXX
manufacture date: June 2006
Thanks stoid, Just trying to determine when the specs actually changed,
RATHER than when Apple decided to announced the changes.
Must have been before August 7 2006 when they were "updated".

It looks terrific, no problems so far.
Just want to be sure I have the "latest and greatest" right?

davepoint
Aug 10, 2006, 11:58 AM
Curious that they haven't changed the revision??

Russell L
Aug 10, 2006, 01:56 PM
Stoid and Links: Is there a spec sheet enclosed with your new displays? Do they reflect the updated specs? I'm thinking of getting a 23" myself (directly from a local Apple Store), but I'd want to check the serial # (if possible) before I commit.

Thanks,
Russell

Links
Aug 10, 2006, 02:22 PM
Stoid and Links: Is there a spec sheet enclosed with your new displays? Do they reflect the updated specs? I'm thinking of getting a 23" myself (directly from a local Apple Store), but I'd want to check the serial # (if possible) before I commit.

Thanks,
Russell

Yes and no.
The spec sheet avoids any mention of brightness or contrast ratio.
Guess Apple doesn't want to be bothered printing a new manual every time the panel manufacturer does an update.
Does come with a nice cloth for cleaning the screen though.

I would make sure you serial number is in the 2A62XXXXXXX range.
2A7XXXXXXXX would be later if they are at that number yet.

zooey91
Aug 10, 2006, 03:32 PM
Thanks stoid, Just trying to determine when the specs actually changed,
RATHER than when Apple decided to announced the changes.
Must have been before August 7 2006 when they were "updated".

It looks terrific, no problems so far.
Just want to be sure I have the "latest and greatest" right?

I ordered mine on Monday and got it yesterday (ground shipping!). I just got off the phone with tech support (customer service had no clue about the change in specs). He actually had no clue either. He'd never heard of any color or pink cast problems, surprise surprise, and said that that kind of thing is just a matter of opinion. I said that bumping brightness to 400 cd/m2 (up from 270 cd/m2) and contrast ration to 700:1 (up from 400:1) isn't a matter of opinion, so they should have some way of confirming that I received what I paid for.

In any event, he did tell me that mine was manufactured in June (sn 2A6221XXXXX). I would hope and assume that this means it's the newer LCD. It looked great from my powerbook, and I'm looking forward to checking it out with my new Mac Pro when it arrives tomorrow.

Jim

Links
Aug 10, 2006, 03:41 PM
I ordered mine on Monday and got it yesterday (ground shipping!). [...]
Jim
Reminds of an issue many years ago when Apple released the G3 (B&W).
The first batch had a crippled ATA bus due to the wrong chip.
If you bought the same machine, same model number, same specs
a month later you had a different chip and much improved Hard Drive performance.
How could you tell them apart?
You had to search out the chip inside the G3 and find the number on the chip to compare with the newer one.

MUCKYFINGERS
Aug 10, 2006, 03:45 PM
You're free to dream, but they don't plan to meet or exceed the Dell in number of units sold, so I wouldn't expect them to meet or exceed them on price either.

B

Even then I doubt Apple would really lower their prices. They're famous for overcharging customers.

steve_hill4
Aug 10, 2006, 04:07 PM
To be honest, the only things putting me off a future purchase of an ACD are connectors, possible incompatibility and cost. If they were a little more affordable for me, (as they are sure to be by the time I think of a purchase), I would get one of the 23" models. However, I would be planning on using it as a display for my PC which also doubled as a second display for my iMac and MBP. Therefore I would need ideally either one VGA and one DVI, two DVI and a VGA or a pair of DVIs. It just wouldn't be practical switching back and forth all the time for me.

BeefUK
Aug 10, 2006, 04:31 PM
wnurse I see what your sayin but, i'm lookin to buy and ACD and Dells are much cheaper plus they support HDCP.

The real problem with ACD is that they don't have HDCP in the DVIs. Bying such a large monitor (I'm targeting 23") is 5-year investment. And bying one now, without HDCP is a wasted money because in 2 years HD movies would be mainstream and you could not watch them on that nice big monitor you bought..

I agree with aleck, I want to be able to connect the monitor to the PS3 when they are released, and not have to buy a new one to watch films.

However I have done alot a reserach into ACD and Dell monitors and there seems to be problems with banding in dells monitors. This maybe another valid reason to put people off Dell.

But the more I read the more it seems people are starting to nit pick and look for problems with there Dells. I still agree that ACD's are all over priced, maybe except for the 30".

MacFan26
Aug 10, 2006, 04:49 PM
w00t. I'll be buying a 23" real soon at the edu price. I'm excited! I was hoping they'd add built in iSight or the ability to use Front Row with it, but oh well, It'll be sweet to use with my powerbook. I doubt they'd update them soon, seems like they would have just released new ones with the Mac Pro if they were going to do that.

wnurse
Aug 10, 2006, 05:51 PM
Guys, I must be missing something.
Everybody is saying here that Dell 30" monitors are cheaper than Apple's 30"
Check the link bellow and you'll see that is actually more:

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&sku=222-0863

I understand that maybe there are rebates and so on, but seriously I rather pay more for an Apple display than a Dell. First the design of Apple is better and second I can get Applecare included if I purchase it with a ProMac or PowerMac.

I am not going to discuss the specs of each display. I rather see each side by side to analyze which is better.


huuh.. no one is saying Dell 30 inch is cheaper now (used to be.. so maybe you read an old post before the current price drop). Heck, don't you see I have started a foundation to get me a Apple 30'?. I think some people prefer Dell because their monitors have more options (connections wise). I know I'm glad i got my 20 inch Dell over a 20 inch apple. But I really wanted an apple monitor (even with limited connectivity).. now all you have to do is send me a buck, persuade 1999 other people to do the same (I promise to burn every contributer name onto the back of the monitor). hahaha..

Anyway, I think everyone now knows apple 30 inch is cheaper.

wnurse
Aug 10, 2006, 05:54 PM
Please tell me where I said that I thought that Apple monitors were better than Dell monitors in anything other than asthetics? I have not made any claim anywhere!

All I said was that tech specs in some places were listed different so something about the panel seems to be different. Yes I bought an Apple monitor, yes I'm an Apple fanboy because I like the look of their electronics, but no I never stated that Apple's monitors were functionally better. On the contrary my statements are to the effect that Dell montiors show functionally better specs, so logically aren't they (not Apple) using the better panel.

Also, what say you to blonde redhead's post about Apple and Dell using different suppliers? Is that correct, or more disinformation.

Get off your soap box, have a cup of tea (or whatever will calm your attitude) and let's have a civil discussion.


Sorry took so late to get back to you..
1. I'm not even sure you were the one that said Dell monitors suck (notice i said "i get annonyed when people.. not I get annonyed when stoid". Anyway, as to different suppliers?.. I was not the one that made that observation/comment. I suppose whoever made that comment can verify for you if that is correct.

ezekielrage_99
Aug 10, 2006, 08:44 PM
I thought the Apple Displays might sport an iSight Camera....

Still uping the specs and dropping the price is enough for me :cool:

benbow
Aug 11, 2006, 12:27 AM
The 23" display is now $999
The 30" display is now $1999

Apple could fill that $1000 hole with a nice 26" cinema display. It would be perfect in our household.

Are there "25-27" LCDs out there that Apple could sell for say $1499? Has Dell or HP filled this hole yet?

davepoint
Aug 11, 2006, 06:04 AM
I agree, some middle ground would have been nice

Viking Quest
Aug 11, 2006, 09:55 AM
The 23" display is now $999
The 30" display is now $1999

Apple could fill that $1000 hole with a nice 26" cinema display. It would be perfect in our household.

Are there "25-27" LCDs out there that Apple could sell for say $1499? Has Dell or HP filled this hole yet?


I'm about to pull the trigger on the Dell 2407WFP. 24" monitor with Component, VGA, S-Video, and DVI inputs. It's a sweet monitor and blows the Apple 23" out of the water. And it's only $703!!!!!!!!!!!!!

davepoint
Aug 12, 2006, 05:42 AM
would anyone care to explain why the uk price for a 30" cinema display is 1549 whereas in the US it is $1999 (around 1054.71) even with VAT included this still only comes to 1,239.28 - so why the huge margin...I guess it's not called rip-off Britain for nothing eh...

skunk
Aug 12, 2006, 05:49 AM
would anyone care to explain why the uk price for a 30" cinema display is 1549 whereas in the US it is $1999 (around 1054.71) even with VAT included this still only comes to 1,239.28 - so why the huge margin...I guess it's not called rip-off Britain for nothing eh...Excluding VAT, my edu disc price is 1,213.00. I'm sorely tempted to order.

klaus
Aug 12, 2006, 04:03 PM
Okay,

The left display in the pic below is one I bought 2 years ago, it was replaced 2 times (this is the 3rd display). The display on the right is brandnew, I bought it on wednesday from the online apple store.

The colors in the picture are exagerated because of the photo itself. The background of the screens is black and the backlight leakage is white irl.

The effect is also not as obvious as in the picture but however, it is there, very visible.

If you look at the highres - http://users.skynet.be/bk318948/macosx.nl/schermen.jpg - then you can clearly see there is ghosting on the right screen.

I've requested for a replacement for the new one. The old one (left) was bought at a dealer. It's still in warranty (applecare) but i'm in some kind of dispute with that dealer, so i'm hoping to take care of it directly through Apple.

On a sidenote, I payed almost 2400 euro (vat incl.) for the left one 2 years agon, the right one, which I bought this week, cost me 1150 euro. Should be enough to be eligible for 2 perfect displays no?

maxdet
Aug 12, 2006, 04:06 PM
The official reason for the price drop was to meet dell prices or get close to them. To what extent could Apple have dropped their display prices to come back a little later with a new model with new features (built-in iSight, better specs or any new crazy thing like an integrated coffee machine) that would justify more expencive models.

I know it sounds crazy but it came to my mind and seemed quite possible after all.

your opinion?

davepoint
Aug 12, 2006, 04:31 PM
surely they wouldn't update the specs only to release something new in a month or so..

klaus
Aug 12, 2006, 04:37 PM
Someone over at the Display forum at Apple's discussion boards mentioned he had a chat with someone from Apple Support and that he told him the specs were already in circulation from April but that they were only now updated on the webpages.

There is also no way of telling if you have a display with the newer specs or not, since there isn't another product code for this.

Links
Aug 12, 2006, 05:07 PM
There is also no way of telling if you have a display with the newer specs or not, since there isn't another product code for this.
Oh yes there is.
See my Post #105 and use Chipmunk.

klaus
Aug 13, 2006, 04:30 AM
Sure, I know Chipmunk and have used it in the past too.

But since you cannot know when exactly the new panels were used, this data is useless.

The product code is the same, and every lcd has a serial, but it's not like Apple tells us which serial nr was the last one of the old batch is it.

RichP
Aug 13, 2006, 12:13 PM
klaus,
so, based on your experience, we can still say the "new" 23s are junk? That really is upsetting.

I gave up on 23s a while ago, although I would really like the increased resolution. I agree with what you said, for the price we pay, we should get quality and consistency, (especially with a company that really pushes dual screen configurations) There is NOTHING more irritating than when the monitors dont "match"

3CCD
Aug 13, 2006, 02:32 PM
If they came out with new displays by the new year that would be wonderful. Looking to get a MBP with the new OSX when it comes out. If new displays come out, I'll be tempted to get one.

WhiteShadow
Aug 13, 2006, 10:50 PM
price cut? the displays still seem a bit over priced.

wmmk
Aug 13, 2006, 10:59 PM
The 20" is still way over-priced.
yeah, but it has an apple logo and is made of brushed metal. if you don't like to pay for design, run unix on a homebuilt PC in a square plastic case.

davepoint
Aug 14, 2006, 01:52 AM
You're telling me they haven't recouped costs for designing the things yet? Or that we should always have to pay..

wmmk
Aug 14, 2006, 11:44 AM
You're telling me they haven't recouped costs for designing the things yet? Or that we should always have to pay..
Of course they've recouped costs for designing products. My point is, if one product has superior design, there is high demand for it. Considering that the global economy is based on supply & demand, well designed products will always cost more than poorly designed products, unless the creator of the product with superior design chooses to discount their product to gain market share and popularity.

davepoint
Aug 14, 2006, 01:29 PM
the world sucks

wmmk
Aug 14, 2006, 02:40 PM
the world sucks
the world sucks because good things cost more than not quite as good things? as economically left as i am, i struggle to see your reasoning. in capitalism, there are free markets. in free markets, manufacturers price their own merchandise to be competitive with other manufacturers.

davepoint
Aug 14, 2006, 06:28 PM
capitalism is hardly ideal, but given human nature what can you do.

It's a pity we can't live in a utopian society, and even more of a pity that we seem so very capable of a dystopian one

BenRoethig
Aug 14, 2006, 08:01 PM
Hey guys, when did we stop talking about displays and start the communism discussion?

Links
Aug 14, 2006, 09:37 PM
I ordered the 'new' 23 inch display within 30 minutes of the store being back online, and I just unpacked it. Having no frame of reference to compare to an 'old' 23 inch, I can say that it is ridiculously bright and clear, has no pink cast whatsoever, and from a first careful look over it, 0 dead pixels!

Hopefully no pink cast will develop (I've had it plugged in for about 10 minutes now.

I'm off to get one of those dead pixel checker programs...

This is getting very messy.
Another purchaser of the 23" contacted AppleCare and reported this in Apple's Monitor Forum:

"I just talked to an AppleCare specialist and he said that this is still the old model based on my serial number. 2A6241XXXXX and manufactured June 2006"

"I called the apple store online on the phone and asked them how I would get the new one that is as the one they sell now. They said, it is guaranteed 100% that I would get the new one online, but through their retail stores, it is very likely to get the previous model, because they still have the old ones."

So both of us (mine made in May ( 2A6211XXXXX) and yours in June 2006 (2A6241XXXXX) have the old model with the following specs according to his report:
Brightness 270cd/m2
contrast ratio 400:1

So I guess no one can be sure of what they are getting, no matter how or where they buy it.

wmmk
Aug 14, 2006, 09:44 PM
Hey guys, when did we stop talking about displays and start the communism discussion?
in posts 135-139. still, this is related to the price of the displays, so we're not totally off topic.

gootz
Aug 15, 2006, 12:43 AM
I went into my local Apple store yesterday and they denied that there were even upgrades? WTF? I guess they want to sell off there current stock?

Links
Aug 15, 2006, 01:17 AM
I went into my local Apple store yesterday and they denied that there were even upgrades? WTF? I guess they want to sell off there current stock?

New stock old stock?
From all the reports I've seen so far, no one at Apple knows for sure what they are selling.
Here's another report posted at Apple's Monitor forum dated August 10.

I spoke with Apple today to determine what the deal was with the recently upgraded brightness and contrast specs for the 20" and 23" Cinema Displays. They indicated that the change was actually (quietly?) made back in April 2006, and that any monitor recently sold directly by Apple should be one of the newer models.

Russell L
Aug 15, 2006, 01:21 AM
This is getting very messy.
Another purchaser of the 23" contacted AppleCare and reported this in Apple's Monitor Forum:

"I just talked to an AppleCare specialist and he said that this is still the old model based on my serial number. 2A6241XXXXX and manufactured June 2006"

"I called the apple store online on the phone and asked them how I would get the new one that is as the one they sell now. They said, it is guaranteed 100% that I would get the new one online, but through their retail stores, it is very likely to get the previous model, because they still have the old ones."

So both of us (mine made in May ( 2A6211XXXXX) and yours in June 2006 (2A6241XXXXX) have the old model with the following specs according to his report:
Brightness 270cd/m2
contrast ratio 400:1

So I guess no one can be sure of what they are getting, no matter how or where they buy it.

Well, I sprung for a new 23" at the Apple Store in SF last Friday (along with a new Mac Pro!). I asked the salesman to find me one with the highest serial number, which was 2A6251xxxxx (also June 2006). FWIW, the display was set at its highest brightness setting and was just too bright--I've now got it set at about 25% and it looks terrific. No obvious dead pixels, no pink cast. I also purchased the AppleCare warranty, so I should be covered over the next 3 years.

Russell

davepoint
Aug 15, 2006, 02:19 AM
I was looking at buying a 30" anyway - it was march when they updated those right? I don't think they got updated at wwdc did they?

sejanus
Aug 15, 2006, 03:53 AM
I just bought a 30" from apple online and i doubt it's "really new" but i have no way of telling.

The box looked a little dusty but i didn't really care, it looks great.




I was looking at buying a 30" anyway - it was march when they updated those right? I don't think they got updated at wwdc did they?

wiz7dome
Aug 15, 2006, 12:16 PM
I just bought the 23 inch several days ago. My serial is 2A6251XXXXXX and it shows up with a june 2006 production date. Like the earlier poster, it is very bright and I also turned it down a little. I also turned the color down to Thousands instead of Millions as a psychological trick for when i need it. Now after reading the pink hue replies (which i totally forgot about) I can't tell if i have a pinkish hue or if its my own paranoia.

1. Does anyone have a pic or example of the Pinkish hue?

2. Is there a way to test or tell which 23" model you have?l

donbadman
Aug 15, 2006, 04:19 PM
why?

Those dual optical slots in the mac pro, one of them's obviously for a Blue Ray / HD-DVD drive, both of which use HDCP content protection. HDCP isn't supported currently on the ACD.

I think this is probably the reason for no Blue Ray drive option on the mac pro not price as has been suggested. If you've got customers spending 1400+ on a graphics card I'm sure you can sell a Blue Ray drive for 600 - 700 They sell them here (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Blu_Ray_Drives.html), so I'm sure Apple could get hold of them.

This is of course unless Apple's going to seize the opportunity for stealing the thunder from both HD-DVD and Blue Ray. The easiest method for delivering HD content to users is via the internet, Apple is in a perfect position to do so:

1. It has lots of customers running intel macs all of which support at least 720p in the proper 16:9 aspect ratio, this is a huge untapped market which already has the equipment to view HD content, especially in areas such as the UK where HDTV sales have been very slow and finding content is almost impossible.

2. It has iTunes.

3. The whole HDCP, HDMI, HDTV debacle with 1st gen investors in equipment unable to view content. Apple could have a field day with this one, even better than the jibes at ms.

4. it could avoid the HDCP content protection in favour of the itunes variant, thereby negating the need for new displays whilst providing that much needed ease of use to consumers, and satisfying the studios.

So that second optical slot could be rendered useless, there'd be no need for new displays, we'd see the widescreen ipod and Apple laughs all the way to the bank...

Links
Aug 15, 2006, 04:44 PM
why?
Those dual optical slots in the mac pro, one of them's obviously for a Blue Ray / HD-DVD drive, both of which use HDCP content protection. HDCP isn't supported currently on the ACD.
...
...nor is HDCP support enabled on your current graphics card.
For more on the current state of HDCP and computer monitoring:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20060119095559.html

fortetfn
Aug 15, 2006, 11:06 PM
Mine was manufactured in June 2006 and Apple said that it was the old stock. I really wish if it was like someone here said that the new specs were quietly going back in April which means that mine would possibly be the new stock.

How I could possibly determine whether mine is the new one or not is by turning all the lights off in my room. This is a brand new 23"ACD from an Apple store. I don't need to set the brightness setting to 25% or more... definitely you would agree that a 23" display is a fairly big monitor as a big canvas in front of me. With no other lighting in the room, wouldn't I want to turn the brightness setting all the way down to the bottom if I don't want to burn my eyes with it. The answer is no. I let this display stay on for a while, but it is still not much brighter than when I just turned it on.

For a new monitor, i don't think I would need to turn the brightness setting so high up to impress myself with its brightness. I can positively say that if mine display was the new stock, Apple didn't do a good job on tweaking up to the new specs... I'm not going to talk about my ghosting problem, though that is a slight issue.

Hope someone has a different serial number, so we could differentiate between the new stock and the old stock. It's been really frustrating....:(

fortetfn
Aug 16, 2006, 12:14 AM
As I mentioned earlier about the ghosting thing, it mostly happens when I play a movie on it. When it is not in full screen mode. I hope this will help some people in this forum.

imuk
Aug 16, 2006, 09:14 AM
I received a 2A62XXX Display last week with a May production date. No idea whether it is an old or a new one. However, I did notice a few dead pixels last night after watching a movies. (The movie credits came with a black background. Great for dead pixel discovery!)

By just looking at it, I noticed at least 4 dead pixels, some appeared stronger than others. They are all on the left half of the screen. Is this considered an acceptable or normal number of dead pixels? I am tempted to return it while I can. Any suggestions?

fortetfn
Aug 16, 2006, 11:32 AM
I received a 2A62XXX Display last week with a May production date. No idea whether it is an old or a new one. However, I did notice a few dead pixels last night after watching a movies. (The movie credits came with a black background. Great for dead pixel discovery!)

By just looking at it, I noticed at least 4 dead pixels, some appeared stronger than others. They are all on the left half of the screen. Is this considered an acceptable or normal number of dead pixels? I am tempted to return it while I can. Any suggestions?


Yes, you should definitely return it and get a new one. I can never accept any dead pixels. It is annoying to see them there. Call Apple and tell them that.

klaus
Aug 17, 2006, 04:22 PM
Received my replacement display today:

Stuck green pixel.
Gray dot in the center, looks like dust behind lcd glass?
Even backlight, or sort off.
Lots of ghosting...

This display is going back as well. I'll call tomorrow. I'll ask for one more replacement, otherwise i want a refund.

C'mon Apple, how hard is it to get me a nice 23" display? I have one already, without ghosting, some backlight leakage ok, but I just want a second display to go with it. Is it that hard?

You can't see the issue as clearly as in real life, but you can see the edges of the windows clearly. I can still read the songs of my itunes library while I closed iTunes 20 seconds ago.

elsiedee
Aug 23, 2006, 01:06 AM
So both of us (mine made in May ( 2A6211XXXXX) and yours in June 2006 (2A6241XXXXX) have the old model ... So I guess no one can be sure of what they are getting, no matter how or where they buy it.

The following was posted on www.barefeats.com last Friday:

"August 18th, 2006 -- New Apple 23" Cinema impresses. We ordered a new 23" Cinema display for our Mac Pro 3GHz. This new model (numbers starting with 2A6281 or higher) is brighter with better contrast than the previous model. Best of all, the pink hue on grey screens is gone."

http://www.barefeats.com/quick.html

Links
Aug 23, 2006, 01:22 AM
The following was posted on www.barefeats.com last Friday:

"August 18th, 2006 -- New Apple 23" Cinema impresses. We ordered a new 23" Cinema display for our Mac Pro 3GHz. This new model (numbers starting with 2A6281 or higher) is brighter with better contrast than the previous model. Best of all, the pink hue on grey screens is gone."

http://www.barefeats.com/quick.html

Guess they got lucky.
Gus, at Apple's Cinema Displays (Mid 2004) forum, wasn't and his is also a "newer" version than the one barefeats got.

"I ordered my ACD 23'' online, on August 14th, and I got a display serial number 2A6290, with serious backlight leakage, and a magenta cast on the left side. I am going to the store to exchange it or return it."

thesheep
Aug 23, 2006, 08:26 AM
I bought a new 23" display last week, from the UK Apple Store website. I rang them before I ordered to check that it would be one with the new specs. They confirmed that it would be.

Now the monitor has arrived and it has serial number 2A6171XXXXX. Apparently manufactured in April 2006. I just rang technical support and they said it isn't one with the new specs. They didn't know if there was a new model number, or when they're getting the new specs in, or anything at all really.

If anyone is very keen to get the new version in the UK, I suggest you wait a while and try to be extremely specific when you do order.

Other than that it seems to be a really great display and I'm probably not going to bother sending it back.

However, I do have one issue with it. It seems that certain shades of bright green are much more saturated and more 'garish' on the display than they are on my Powerbook display. If I look at the same image on both, the difference is really noticeable. Not really sure what to do about it. I imagine it is probably the display that's inaccurate, rather than the powerbook, but I can't be sure. Anyone had any experiences like this? It is particularly noticeable on 'yellowy-green' colours, which look much more garish on the cinema display.

machappymeal
Aug 23, 2006, 08:31 AM
thesheep

Do you not feel you should push for the latest spec one as it may well affect any possible re-sale value in the future?

donbadman
Sep 4, 2006, 05:43 PM
...nor is HDCP support enabled on your current graphics card.
For more on the current state of HDCP and computer monitoring:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20060119095559.html

That's totally off point, read my post again, there's no need for HDCP over HDMI if you have a DRM that the studios have signed up to, looking at the sept 12th announcement apple have already got everybody on board, im hexpecting a video ipod, new MBP's and apple cleaning up on the HD content providing. As I said before it's the only HD platform that has a user base already in place with the required equipment, sony have loads of probs with supply issues on Blue Ray, no consumers are even close to buying PS3's or Blue Ray drives, no computers have these either therefore Apple can catch everyone out and release HD content through iTunes to a user base that already have the required equipment. oh yeah, 1080p is only certified via HDMI but most consumers are happy to accept 720p as "true" HD and the download times of 720p content over the net via broadband is not too much to ask. My 2 pence...

Waiting for the core 2 duo / LV woodcrest MPB's
I've 2500 waiting to go, hurry up Apple and get the products out...:eek:

belkjab
Feb 8, 2007, 03:20 PM
The article at the following URL explains "in great detail" how the Dell & Apple Flat Panels differ:
http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=2400

Apple seals the panel and associated electronics inside of a case thus protecting these delicate components from dust. Unfortunately, the Dell Flat panel has vents on the top, back of the case which expose these components to dust. I would expect Apple's display to out last that sold by Dell.


Who said anything about Dell claiming greater contrast. Which of my post said that Dell claimed greater contrast ratio and brightness?. I would never make that claim (The dell website claims that the Dell 24 inch is 700:1 contrast, same as the Apple panels, which just got that upgrade while the Dell panels where that for a while). As to brightness, Dell 24 inch is 400 cd/m2 while the apple 23 inch is also 400 cd/m2. I'm neither a Dell fanboy nor an apple fanboy (as i so fondly point out time after time, i have a apple power G5 mac with a 20 inch Dell monitor). I would never make claims such as Dell monitor is better than Apple monitor unless I knew that to be true.. I pointed out that they used the same panels. Yes, the size may be different but they come off the same manufacturing line. To see Dell specs, here is the link for the 24 inch http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=222-0863

They are the same panels except notice Dell has more features which puzzles me greatly. Apple wants to charge a premium for their monitor and that is fine with me but come on!!!.. have more features than the other guy please!!!.. you know how annonying it is for a Dell fanboy to come up to you and say.. hey, our monitor is the same but mine is better and cheaper (better in terms of more features, not brightness or contrast). If you think features don't matter, you are living in la la land. I like the fact that i can hook up more things to my Dell monitor than i could have with an apple monitor. If the apple monitor was more versatile and offered more features, i'd consider paying the premium but i am not gonna get an overpriced apple monitor cause stevie says so.. I don't see him offering me rides on his boat.. why the hell should i get trapped in his reality distortion field?. Give me something better and i will gladly hand over my money to Stevie so he can get a bigger boat (and without any complaints).

As to my first glorius revelation, you must be a newbie. you should search for my name in other apple forums. I don't suffer fools gladly (or people who reply to a post too quickly). When i post, i do not expect an instantaneous response. It's ok to google the information before you respond. I can wait!!. If you don't know or understand, say so but do not try to make a point about something you don't know about. You replied to one of my post about how wrong I was that dell and apple were using the same panel and now you claim you don't know about the lcd production process?.. and you complain about me being mean?.. you leave yourself open to such an attack when you start making statements you have no idea are true or not.

Google is a great resource.. I don't know everything either (i wish i did but unfortunately, time is finite and my brain only has so much capacity).. but I always research stuff on google before posting. It helps (also helps to view the company you are bashing website to see their monitor specs before posting).

BTW, since the apple 30 inch is definetly a better value than Dell 30 inch (although i am sure Michael will not take that lying down.. watch for dell to suddenly drop prices on their monitors) i am soliciting funds to my "get a apple 30 inch monitor" foundation. I get the feeling i will not be seeing your dollar. Oh well. Maybe I haven't antagonized everyone in all the forums and i can get some donations to my wonderful foundation (whoose sole purpose is to get me a 30 inch apple monitor).