9 Dead, 12 Injured When SUV Attempts to Flee Border Patrol

[clayj]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14233044/

Idiots. Cram 22 illegal immigrants into a single SUV and then enter the US, then try to run from the Border Patrol and kill almost half the people in the vehicle (and injure almost all of the others).

Now I expect we'll hear more condemnation from the Mexican government about how these folks had some sort of RIGHT to be in the US and how the US government is evil for attempting to apprehend them.

[zimv20]

compassionate as usual, i see.

[nbs2]

compassionate as usual, i see.
Compassion has little to do with the truth.

[Lau]

Are they idiots because they're illegal immigrants or idiots because they rolled their car?

[clayj]

Compassion has little to do with the truth.Exactly.

These folks are dead because the idiot behind the wheel attempted to elude the Border Patrol while driving a seriously overloaded (and probably top-heavy) SUV, not because the Border Patrol tried to stop them... if they'd surrendered peacefully, they'd've been deported back to wherever, but they'd still be alive.

Are they idiots because they're illegal immigrants or idiots because they rolled their car?They're idiots because they rolled their car while attempting to escape the authorities.

They're criminals for having been there in the first place. When someone dies in the commission of a crime, I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for them. They should have stayed home, where they'd be still alive, or they should have surrendered, where (again) they'd still be alive.

[mactastic]

So I guess the question is, how angry are people going to get that these criminals are receiving medical care with taxpayer money? I bet it's pretty angry...

[clayj]

So I guess the question is, how angry are people going to get that these criminals are receiving medical care with taxpayer money? I bet it's pretty angry...Let's see... 12 people in the hospital, with 5 of them in "critical" condition.

That bill ain't gonna be cheap... I'd suggest that the US bill the Mexican government for the expense of patching these folks up until they're well enough to be deported.

[mactastic]

Yep... pretty angry all right. So what's your reasoning behind why the Mexican government should pay? Was it their fault these 'idiots' did what they did?

Should the US government pay for any damages caused by private citizens abroad? Would you feel good as a taxpayer about paying for hospital care or other costs incurred by the drunken American idiots who frequent TJ?

[xsedrinam]

So I guess the question is, how angry are people going to get that these criminals are receiving medical care with taxpayer money? I bet it's pretty angry...
Well, mac. I took that to be somewhat sarcastic, and if so, here's one who got it. If not.......
edit: Okay, good to see.

[mactastic]

Well, mac. I took that to be somewhat sarcastic, and if so, here's one who got it. If not.......
Nah, I'm cool with national healthcare. Even the high cost of this incident is but a drop in the bucket in terms of health care costs in this country.

I'm not interested in turning people away from emergency rooms...

[pseudobrit]

more condemnation from the Mexican government about how these folks had some sort of RIGHT to be in the US and how the US government is evil for attempting to apprehend them.

Nice straw man. Knock it down some more.

[xsedrinam]

Nah, I'm cool with national healthcare. Even the high cost of this incident is but a drop in the bucket in terms of health care costs in this country.

I'm not interested in turning people away from emergency rooms...
I'm concerned with the tenor of hatred and lack of compassionate commentary around these parts. It's beyond scary. Anyway, good to know I heard you right.

[solvs]

Now I expect we'll hear more condemnation from the Mexican government about how these folks had some sort of RIGHT to be in the US and how the US government is evil for attempting to apprehend them.
I don't see anyone doing that. They may have been criminals, but they were still people. Not saying what they did was right, but I can't say I take pleasure in their deaths.

[zimv20]

Compassion has little to do with the truth.
damn them for wanting a better life! damn them all to hell!

have i got it right?

[clayj]

I don't see anyone doing that. They may have been criminals, but they were still people. Not saying what they did was right, but I can't say I take pleasure in their deaths.I don't think I expressed anywhere that I took any pleasure in people dying. I don't. I just think they died very, very stupidly.

But I guarantee you that someone in the Mexican government will condemn the US for having chased these folks in the first place.

[xsedrinam]

damn them for wanting a better life! damn them all to hell!

have i got it right?
Regrettably, I'm afraid so. I like your glasses, though.

[skunk]

Compassion has little to do with the truth.So does derision of lesser species.

[zimv20]

I like your glasses, though.
can you see me!?!?!

[solvs]

I don't think I expressed anywhere that I took any pleasure in people dying. I don't. I just think they died very, very stupidly.
Stupid? Yes. Doing something wrong? Yes. For the right reason at first? Yes. I just feel they deserve pity more than scorn because of the apparent desperation. But I can't really say what I would have done because I am not in their shoes.

But I guarantee you that someone in the Mexican government will condemn the US for having chased these folks in the first place.
I still don't see that happening, but if so I doubt anyone who isn't a crackpot will agree with them. I just don't agree with the straw man approach, nor of the tone of your first post. I would think you'd be more sympathetic than judgmental. Not that I agree with what they did either, just happen to feel bad for them. Especially those not driving, who also must have desperate.

[aquajet]

They're criminals for having been there in the first place. When someone dies in the commission of a crime, I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for them. They should have stayed home, where they'd be still alive, or they should have surrendered, where (again) they'd still be alive.

Which crime do you refer to, exactly? Illegally crossing the border, or evasion of border patrol officers? Does it matter to you?

Your article provides little detail. How do we know what transpired in the vehicle when the driver detected the first sign of trouble? Did they all agree to flee recklessly in an overloaded vehicle? Did some scream in terror and disagreement as the driver fled? We don't know, and I think it's a bit cold to discount all sympathy simply because they shouldn't have been here in the first place. Remember, they likely just wanted better lives for themselves.

[nbs2]

damn them for wanting a better life! damn them all to hell!

have i got it right?
No. The truth is that it would not be surprising to see "more condemnation from the Mexican government about how these folks had some sort of RIGHT to be in the US and how the US government is evil for attempting to apprehend them." Such a comment may not be compassionate, but compassion is irrelevant when considering the truth of the matter asserted.

[Ugg]

No. The truth is that it would not be surprising to see "more condemnation from the Mexican government about how these folks had some sort of RIGHT to be in the US and how the US government is evil for attempting to apprehend them." Such a comment may not be compassionate, but compassion is irrelevant when considering the truth of the matter asserted.

The Mexican gov't has been pretty careful about what statements are released to the press. I seriously doubt that they would make a stink about this one. Had the SUV been shot at by the National Guard, it would have been different.

I really fail to see the reason for your and clayj's outrage. Something tells me it's not about the crash of the SUV and more about American xenophobia.

[skunk]

I really fail to see the reason for your and clayj's outrage. Something tells me it's not about the crash of the SUV and more about American xenophobia.I don't think nbs' comment has anything to do with xenophobia or outrage, he's just commenting on the first exchange of posts.

[hulugu]

No. The truth is that it would not be surprising to see "more condemnation from the Mexican government about how these folks had some sort of RIGHT to be in the US and how the US government is evil for attempting to apprehend them." Such a comment may not be compassionate, but compassion is irrelevant when considering the truth of the matter asserted.

So, has the Mexican government complained or made any noises about this incident, yet?

[Ugg]

So, has the Mexican government complained or made any noises about this incident, yet?


It's not about what they have done, it's about what they may have done in clayj's parallel (paranoid?) universe.

[nbs2]

It's not about what they have done, it's about what they may have done in clayj's parallel (paranoid?) universe.
It's not about what they did this time. It's about what their past responses have been to incidents involving Mexicans illegally in the US.

[seenew]

If Mexican citizens are repeatedly breaking US laws, I do think the Mexican government should step in at some point. Perhaps even... help patrol the border?!

(they don't do that, already, do they?)

[Ugg]

If Mexican citizens are repeatedly breaking US laws, I do think the Mexican government should step in at some point. Perhaps even... help patrol the border?!

(they don't do that, already, do they?)

Once again, there's no proof that these were Mexicans, just that they were in the US illegally. More and more illegal immigrants are coming from south of Mexico.

Actually, they do patrol the border. Mexico has a lot of border guards on its southern border to prevent central and south americans from entering Mexico. People caught illegally in Mexico are automatically bused back to the border. They also have significant numbers of guards in the northern border cities. They aren't nearly as strong of a force as in the US and don't have the resources, but I believe there is a fair amount of cross border cooperation.

[seenew]

Actually, they do patrol the border. Mexico has a lot of border guards on its southern border to prevent central and south americans from entering Mexico. People caught illegally in Mexico are automatically bused back to the border. They also have significant numbers of guards in the northern border cities. They aren't nearly as strong of a force as in the US and don't have the resources, but I believe there is a fair amount of cross border cooperation.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up, that's why I asked.