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MacRumors
Aug 7, 2006, 10:22 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple introduced the Mac Pro (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/08/20060807144713.shtml) at WWDC today. A few photos and videos of the new machine have been circulating:

* Photos inside the Mac Pro (http://www.powermax.com/articles_reviews/article.php?id=32) - PowerMax
* Hands on (video) (http://reviews.cnet.com/Apple_Mac_Pro/4660-3118_7-6625612.html?tag=feed?=rss&subj=video) - CNet
* Hands on (photo) (http://www.engadget.com/2006/08/07/apple-mac-pro-hands-on/) - Engadget
* More Photos (http://www.macobserver.com/article/2006/08/07.19.shtml) - MacObserver

Apple also gives its developers some Apple-branded items for attending:

* Apple gear given out at WWDC (photos) (http://theappleblog.com/2006/08/07/wwdc-swag/) - TheAppleBlog

Readers are reminded that despite detailing many features of the upcoming Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, Steve Jobs opened his presentation (http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/060807/1327582.html?.v=1) by stating "There's some top secret features we're going to keep a little close to the vest."

Other tidbits from WWDC:

* XCode 2.4 was released today.
* An unconfirmed forum post claims (http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=304580) that the Mac Pro CPUs are swappable.
* Leopard Server Sneak Peak (http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/leopard/simplesetup.html) with iCal Server, Wiki Server, Spotlight Server and Podcast Producer.

Finally, higher quality versions of the promotional screenshots from Leopard have been posted to our guides page (http://guides.macrumors.com/Leopard).

spicyapple
Aug 7, 2006, 10:23 PM
This was a good WWDC. :D Quad Xeons... what I was hoping for since 2004!

noservice2001
Aug 7, 2006, 10:25 PM
hmmm...swapping out mac pro chips you say?

swingerofbirch
Aug 7, 2006, 10:34 PM
I'm not holding my breath on the Top secret features...it could have been a joke.

ALTHOUGH, Tiger included some features that were so top secret--like the exclusive dotMac widgets--that Apple couldn't even include them in the final release, so you never know! ;)

nagromme
Aug 7, 2006, 10:34 PM
Very similar external case, but the insides are totally new and different--so I think we'll see this case design for quite a while to come. That answers that, you can stop waiting for a new design :)

Lots of great attention to detail--like the way the drive-holders are numbered in case you take more than one out and forget where they came from.

I still wonder where the Airport and Bluetooth antennas are.

mdntcallr
Aug 7, 2006, 10:36 PM
Neat stuff.

thanks for putting all of this in a convienent form!! with easy links

leistnerm
Aug 7, 2006, 10:37 PM
I'm not holding my breath on the Top secret features...it could have been a joke.

ALTHOUGH, Tiger included some features that were so top secret--like the exclusive dotMac widgets--that Apple couldn't even include them in the final release, so you never know! ;)

I think ZFS may be one of the top secret features. Now, maybe that's because I would love to have ZFS running on my Power Mac. However I did see mention of the kernel now implementing DTrace, an open source project that also comes from Solaris... if they took one, maybe they took ZFS as well..

Wishful thinking?

http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/xcode.html

JoshRtek
Aug 7, 2006, 10:46 PM
FYI...anyone that is considering getting the in-store BT/AP module...

The tech on the phone told me that the G5 Powermac module will NOT work in the Mac Pro case...as the internals have been redesigned (power supply at the top, not bottom, new motherboard, etc.)

Also, seems the SATA interface is the newer "II" standard with twice the throughput, but it IS backwards compatible with SATA-I drives :D

szark
Aug 7, 2006, 10:46 PM
I still wonder where the Airport and Bluetooth antennas are.

They stick out from underneath the case. I'm pretty sure you can see that at some point during the Keynote speech (look for the blue "transmission circles" next to the Mac Pro -- the antenna is at the center of the circles).

swedeykx
Aug 7, 2006, 10:48 PM
Something tells me that core animation is going to be iPhoto for multi-touch. It reminds me a lot of the NYU video demo of multi touch interaction experiment photo editing tool. It would not surprise me at all if some feature use this soon.

my 2 cents.

his is pure speculation so dont read anything into it. I am just making a correlation between the look of the two softwares.

Flowbee
Aug 7, 2006, 10:49 PM
I've never really paid much attention to Apple's server software, but the Leopard Server sneak peek was pretty interesting.

swingerofbirch
Aug 7, 2006, 10:49 PM
I'm curious to know whether these Top Secret features have been excluded from the developer preview as well........

Would they purposefully give developers a beta with striped down features?

And if the point of not publicly releasing them is that they dont want Microsoft to copy the features but they DO include those features in the developer preview, I have to imagine that Microsoft will see those features as I assume it is an official Apple developer and would receive these materials!

Object-X
Aug 7, 2006, 11:01 PM
Top Secret stuff? You mean like a movie download service? Or a Front Row PVR? iPhone software?

I find it interesting that he didn't say anything about Front Row and how it would be improved. He didn't say anything about iChat and how it might evolve into a phone service with an integrated iPod/iPhone. In fact, everything they did show are pretty much improvements to existing technologies, except Time Machine (way cool). They didn't add HD-DVD/Blueray to the Mac Pros. I guess what I'm getting at are things that didn't show up are most likely software technologies that have an accompaning hardware device to go with it, and since those products aren't ready they can't spill the beans just yet.

Mac World in January is going to be amazing!

Eidorian
Aug 7, 2006, 11:14 PM
FYI...anyone that is considering getting the in-store BT/AP module...

The tech on the phone told me that the G5 Powermac module will NOT work in the Mac Pro case...as the internals have been redesigned (power supply at the top, not bottom, new motherboard, etc.)

Also, seems the SATA interface is the newer "II" standard with twice the throughput, but it IS backwards compatible with SATA-I drives :DCheck the developer's notes. The Airport module runs on a x1 PCi Express slot and Bluetooth via internal USB 2.0.

motulist
Aug 7, 2006, 11:28 PM
I find it weird that you get a remote control and front row on a lower end machine but you can't even get it as a custom configuration option on the higher end machines. I understand that these are supposed to be the "professional" machines and iMacs are for "consumers," but in the real world that delineation doesn't mean much. Many people buying Mac Pros are getting them as their home computer, and it's pretty lame that you drop extra money on the high end and can't do some of the really cool things that can be done on a lower end model.

That said, I'd gladly accept a Mac Pro if someone wanted to buy me one so they can prove that it doesn't matter. ;)

p0intblank
Aug 7, 2006, 11:31 PM
Top Secret stuff? You mean like a movie download service? Or a Front Row PVR? iPhone software?

I find it interesting that he didn't say anything about Front Row and how it would be improved. He didn't say anything about iChat and how it might evolve into a phone service with an integrated iPod/iPhone. In fact, everything they did show are pretty much improvements to existing technologies, except Time Machine (way cool). They didn't add HD-DVD/Blueray to the Mac Pros. I guess what I'm getting at are things that didn't show up are most likely software technologies that have an accompaning hardware device to go with it, and since those products aren't ready they can't spill the beans just yet.

Mac World in January is going to be amazing!

I'd say chances are very good we will see Steve give another keynote before the holidays roll around. This will be an event focusing on those "Top Secret" features. Afterall, they can't just release Leopard in early 2007 without showing off these features first. They just have to time it right so Microsoft doesn't "photocopy" it. :p

By the way, I love Apple's random stabs at Microsoft and Windows Vista. I love it! :D

summit99
Aug 7, 2006, 11:34 PM
I know we've overdosed on speculation recently, but the MacRumors live transcript from the keynote today contained the following line (from Steve I believe):

10:24 am lots more announcements during the next week

best to just wait and see......

akac
Aug 7, 2006, 11:39 PM
I know we've overdosed on speculation recently, but the MacRumors live transcript from the keynote today contained the following line (from Steve I believe):

10:24 am lots more announcements during the next week

best to just wait and see......

I thought that was for the Universal Binary third party - not Apple's.

shawnce
Aug 7, 2006, 11:41 PM
I know we've overdosed on speculation recently, but the MacRumors live transcript from the keynote today contained the following line (from Steve I believe):

10:24 am lots more announcements during the next week

best to just wait and see...... They may not be public announcements but announcements made to developers at the conference under NDA.

dttyszka
Aug 7, 2006, 11:42 PM
* An unconfirmed forum post claims (http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=304580) that the Mac Pro CPUs are swappable.


An Apple sales rep via the Apple Store chat applet answered this same question for me earlier. Keegan's response was:
"Great question! This would definitely not be supported, but it may certainly be possible."

I would interpret that as: This is normal PC hardware for the most part, so sure the procs are replaceable, but don't expect Apple to be in the market of selling you processor upgrades and your warranty is gone if you make any such modifications.

ImAlwaysRight
Aug 7, 2006, 11:46 PM
I find it weird that you get a remote control and front row on a lower end machine but you can't even get it as a custom configuration option on the higher end machines. I understand that these are supposed to be the "professional" machines and iMacs are for "consumers," but in the real world that delineation doesn't mean much. Many people buying Mac Pros are getting them as their home computer, and it's pretty lame that you drop extra money on the high end and can't do some of the really cool things that can be done on a lower end model.

No remote? No Photo Booth? That's got to be a deal breaker for a lot of folks. ;)

As for the real world, many professionals have funds to purchase these machines as they will use the speed. It seems to me that most "consumers" are not able or willing to plop down the cash to buy a Mac Pro when an iMac or MacBook or even Mac Mini will more than suit their needs.

chiamon
Aug 7, 2006, 11:48 PM
http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/leopard/podcastproducer.html
Notice the phone besides the ipod and itunes? This page is about podcasts and what is a phone doing there alongside ipod and itunes? Does this spell something
about what we all wanted from apple: the iphone? Just my 2 cents. Leopard rox!

kalisphoenix
Aug 7, 2006, 11:53 PM
Top Secret stuff? You mean like a movie download service? Or a Front Row PVR? iPhone software?

I find it interesting that he didn't say anything about Front Row and how it would be improved.

I was thinking about that just now as I watched the Keynote. Many of the features demonstrated today seem to have been specifically mentioned because of their importance to developers. They're either new or improved resources for the devs to work with, or they are "quality of life" improvements. Notice that a lot of items on developer/advanced user wish lists were granted today -- multi-user iCal, multiple iChat enhancements for teleconferencing and so forth, multiple desktops, various organization-related advances in Mail, automated backups (what developer wouldn't want that?), and so forth. This is definitely "Developers! Developers! Developers!" type stuff. Some of the biggest complaints (valid or not) are centered around the lack of various programs for OS X. This is a big gambit, and we should be looking at it in terms of its potential, not of its explicit results to Apple's product line. This WWDC was very strategic in nature -- Apple's going for the throat.

The top secret features? I expect that the mention was made largely to allay Apple fanboy fears of a underwhelming OS update, to keep Microsoft nervous, and to keep developers on their toes as well. That being said, I think there's a large grain of truth in it. As previously-mentioned, a good number of the improvements mentioned today were at least debatably for power users (not the Mail stationery, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a connection somewhere).

The features that sell us on Leopard (and convince stragglers and non Mac-users to buy new Macs) are going to be impressive in function and not have much bearing on developers (at least, not like the Intel switch ;)). I mean enhancements to Front Row, iTunes, Quicktime (Just give us the @#$%ing Pro features), and other media-centered technologies. Enhancements to Safari, Finder (I hope), iCal, Address Book. Enhancements to consumer hardware, like the Airport base stations and (possibly) a TV-capture device.

In other words, I think Apple's flanking their competitors in the media center world and are preparing to do with video what they've done with audio. They might even attempt to crush Microsoft right around the Vista launch, when consumer confidence is at a low, by making their OS's entire software library just another feature of OS X.

Now, this probably isn't so. Apple might be resting on their Tiger laurels. But I think, after careful consideration, that Apple is going for the throat.

kalisphoenix
Aug 7, 2006, 11:54 PM
http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/leopard/podcastproducer.html
Notice the phone besides the ipod and itunes? This page is about podcasts and what is a phone doing there alongside ipod and itunes? Does this spell something
about what we all wanted from apple: the iphone? Just my 2 cents. Leopard rox!

What kind of phone is that? Just a mockup?

arn
Aug 7, 2006, 11:56 PM
What kind of phone is that? Just a mockup?

Looks like it might say "Sony Ericsson" on it.

arn

kalisphoenix
Aug 8, 2006, 12:06 AM
Looks like it might say "Sony Ericsson" on it.

arn

Makes sense.

Lest iGary mock me, I didn't mean "mockup" as in "iPhone beta," I meant "here's a generic multimedia phone to make the idea clear."

mwswami
Aug 8, 2006, 12:11 AM
No remote? No Photo Booth? That's got to be a deal breaker for a lot of folks. ;)

As for the real world, many professionals have funds to purchase these machines as they will use the speed. It seems to me that most "consumers" are not able or willing to plop down the cash to buy a Mac Pro when an iMac or MacBook or even Mac Mini will more than suit their needs.

No front row and no photo booth was definitely a downer for me. I expect to see iSight 2.0 with better optics and IR sensor built-in released later this year.

chiamon
Aug 8, 2006, 12:14 AM
it does not even make sense to put a phone there, since when can phones do RSS? Its just really fishy tt it is placed alongside the ipod and itunes.

shawnce
Aug 8, 2006, 12:30 AM
it does not even make sense to put a phone there, since when can phones do RSS? Its just really fishy tt it is placed alongside the ipod and itunes. Many web capable phones can get RSS streams...

sam10685
Aug 8, 2006, 01:03 AM
I'm not holding my breath on the Top secret features...it could have been a joke.

ALTHOUGH, Tiger included some features that were so top secret--like the exclusive dotMac widgets--that Apple couldn't even include them in the final release, so you never know! ;)

hopefully we do get some really good "top-secret" stuff. Time Machine sounds like the utility in windose xp called systen restore and Spaces sounds like Exposť.

miketcool
Aug 8, 2006, 01:04 AM
That phone has been on the Quicktime site for months now, its just a pretty sony ericsson.

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/technologies/3gpp/

http://images.apple.com/quicktime/technologies/3gpp/images/title_3gppmobile101805.jpg

Looks like the Sony Ericsson K608i, Ive been dying to get my hands on one for awhile now, but tech changes and that lust faded. I have a p900 and I am enthraled with the phone OS. Motorola can eat it here.:p

Looks like it might say "Sony Ericsson" on it.

arn

miketcool
Aug 8, 2006, 01:07 AM
it does not even make sense to put a phone there, since when can phones do RSS? Its just really fishy tt it is placed alongside the ipod and itunes.

Quicktime delivers mobile content and that is decent 3gpp phone. The phone is just one possible device Apple's software ends up compressing for. Woo-hoo scalable HD video!

voyagerd
Aug 8, 2006, 01:09 AM
Has anybody found Xcode 2.4 yet? It's not up on ADC as far as I can see.

mdntcallr
Aug 8, 2006, 01:28 AM
I know we've overdosed on speculation recently, but the MacRumors live transcript from the keynote today contained the following line (from Steve I believe):

10:24 am lots more announcements during the next week

best to just wait and see......

My bet is on Macbook pro update. with merom processor. maybe even a new form.

chorn
Aug 8, 2006, 01:45 AM
Perhaps the Time Machine feature is built around ZFS snapshots!?!

http://blog.beefstew.net/2006/08/200608-1h-os_x_leopard_time_machine_zfs.html

ShnikeJSB
Aug 8, 2006, 01:49 AM
My bet is on Macbook pro update. with merom processor. maybe even a new form.

It had BETTER be...

e-coli
Aug 8, 2006, 01:59 AM
Steve looks unhealthy. He's not as sharp as he used to be. His keynotes were flawless. He stuttered several times, forgot what he was saying in mid sentence, and handed a considerable amount of the keynote to other people. Steve was a control freak in past WWDC keynotes.

I think he may be in not-so-good health. But I've said that before.

MacinDoc
Aug 8, 2006, 02:10 AM
hopefully we do get some really good "top-secret" stuff. Time Machine sounds like the utility in windose xp called systen restore and Spaces sounds like Exposé.
Time Machine is nothing like System Restore. Time Machine allows you to find multiple previous versions of a file. For example, if you accidentally save a revised file without changing the name with "Save As", you can still go back to the previous version of the file if you decide you don't like the revisions or if a file is lost or damaged (I remember one occasion when a child in my home deleted all the contents of an important document and then saved it, and another occasion when a document was corrupted by a drive error; Time Machine would have saved me hours of work on both occasions). System Recover is used to revert to a previous version of an OS when an OS update causes problems (although that would also be a useful utility to have, but its significance pales in comparison to Time Machine).

Spaces is like Exposé on steroids.

I agree with those who believe that, as Jobs said, Apple still has something up its sleeve, more consumer-oriented, likely to be announced at MWSF.

Now if Apple can only beat MS out of the gate on the release date...

They could do ads like this:

(Cue I'm a Mac/I'm a PC music.)
Mac: Hello, I'm a Mac.
PC: And I'm a PC.
Mac: You know, I'm really excited, I have this new operating system called Leopard...
PC: Oh yes, I 'm going to have a new operating system too, called Vista...sometime soon...I think...well, at least there's an 80% chance I will...
Mac: That's great! So, what are some of the new things you'll be able to do...when it comes out, that is...
PC: Well, just about everything Apple said it would give you when it previewed your new OS five months ago, except for that cool Time Warp feature, and I guess that Spotlight search feature is kind of cool too, and all those great new Mail features...
Mac: That's nothing! Have you seen my (insert mind-blowing new feature here)!
PC: Well, just you wait! I'll have all of those features, too, when my next OS after Vista is introduced...in another five years...I hope.

Robtastic
Aug 8, 2006, 02:56 AM
Although some will argue this, I think the exclusion of the remote on the Mac Pro is because it will be on the new displays that will most likely come out in January... I would also expect the new displays to have iSight's built in... clearly this is something Apple is heavily pushing and I think you'll see this across the line... I can't see Apple updating the actual iSight (note in the Keynote he said the new version in Leopard will support MANY new kinds of cameras)... I think you'll see Apple leave the 'external' camera options to third party developers or simply just encourage people without Sights to use FW camcorders... besides, what good would an IR receiver be on the tower for those who put it on the floor...

Overall, the Pro's are amazing (except will need to wait for PS CS3) and the Leopard demo was, at points, jaw dropping... I second one of the previous posters at awesome MacWorld is going to be in January... it will be quite a show...

MacSA
Aug 8, 2006, 03:56 AM
Time Machine sounds like the utility in windose xp called systen restore

No, It doesn't.

CavemanUK
Aug 8, 2006, 04:00 AM
anyone else notice that on the leopard server sneak preview video on apples website, at the end of the intro, she guy shows a widget that doesnt look like its running in a background layer

CavemanUK
Aug 8, 2006, 04:05 AM
No, It doesn't.

this is funny, this one subject is really bringing out the mac and windows hardcores!

I fall into both categories so I like to think im neutral. What I see in Time Machine is System Restore:The Next Generation

System restore did allow you to step back in time thru save points to a point where everything was ok.

Apple have taken it even further by allowing you to do this firstly on the fly, and have also given you the ability to pick out a single file or files to restore. By allowing it to backup to other media they also allow you to recover from a dead hd... all in all a nice feature... shame the space design looks a little naff. personally i would have prefered if they had just gone with there normal shiny black (like frontrow).

iMikeT
Aug 8, 2006, 04:11 AM
I can't wait until I can afford to get a Mac Pro.

axman6
Aug 8, 2006, 04:36 AM
Has anybody found Xcode 2.4 yet? It's not up on ADC as far as I can see.
I haven't heard anything about Xcode 2.4 anywhere apart from here. are you sure about it? i really don't think it has been released. been checking as much as i can everywhere, and i've seen nothing. might be getting it mixed up with Xcode 3.0 that's going to be in Leopard? maybe?

Cya
http://axman6.homeip.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/weblogo-al7.png (http://axman6.homeip.net/blog/)

Erasmus
Aug 8, 2006, 04:46 AM
*cries*

*snuffle*

No iMac Ultra!!!

*cries again*

*snuffle*

Maybe tomorrow? Can only hope. They can't not update the iMac forever...

BTW. I don't think many people expected the Mac Pro to be quite that awesome. FOUR slots that support graphics cards??? WOOHOO! And how many people doubted the quad 3Ghz? A lot, I know you're out there. Eight 30" screens??? That's INSANE!

If this is what Apple bring out for their Mac Pro, my standards for iMac Ultra have now changed.
30" HD screen, 2x SLI X1900's (do they make gig x19's? If they do, they'll be in it) and the 3.2 Ghz C2DE. The new Macbook Pro will surelly get a single x1900, and a 2.67 C2D. Maybe a 19" version? The former still less than 4G, the second less than 5G ($AU).

Both with an overdrive function that overclocks both CPUs and GPUs by a factor of 2. After all, if this beast can dissipate 300W in just graphics cards, let alone 160W of CPU power, plus four high performance hard disks, power supply, etc, etc, etc, surelly my expectations aren't too high...

Sounds reasonable to me after meeting the one true beast.

steviem
Aug 8, 2006, 04:57 AM
No front row and no photo booth was definitely a downer for me. I expect to see iSight 2.0 with better optics and IR sensor built-in released later this year.

Why does IR sensor in iSight make me think of Paris Hilton?! :confused:

kresh
Aug 8, 2006, 05:12 AM
Steve looks unhealthy. He's not as sharp as he used to be. His keynotes were flawless. He stuttered several times, forgot what he was saying in mid sentence, and handed a considerable amount of the keynote to other people. Steve was a control freak in past WWDC keynotes.

I think he may be in not-so-good health. But I've said that before.

I was thinking the same thing. He was not mentally very sharp.

Normally he is so excited and pumped. In past keynotes when he was sitting at the computer and grabbed his water, it with a purpose, excited to get on with it. In past keynotes it was the minor things, his body language and such, that would get me so pumped, I would be bouncing in my chair watching the keynote.

All of that was missing yesterday. He was distracted, and acted as if he had no energy at all.

But I think what tipped me off that something was wrong, was him allowing others to take up half of the presentation time.

I know that when Wal-Mart found out that Sam Walton was going to pass, they scrambled trying to absorb as much of Sam into the "Corporate Culture" as they could. For example, his dog Roy on the dogfood ect.

With Steve sharing the stage with his subordinates as much as he did, it was like Apple is now trying to show that there were other people besides Steve at Apple that have the passion.

Their mode of dress was even contrived. You could tell that not all of them were used to wearing thier shirt tales out. hehe The big guy's, that did the Mac Pro presentation, shirt was wrinkled where it had been tucked in his pants all morning long.

Sorry to ramble, but I just have a bad feeling that something is up with Steve. If there is, I hope there is enough time to absorb Steve into the Corporate Culture (instead of the tyrant image he has now) and cultivate someone to quickly step up.

heh, That was selfish, sorry. If something is up with Steve, I wish him all the best and hope that he can cured, and if not, pass in peace. :(

I would prefer to be totally wrong, and that he was just having a bad day!

Nutter
Aug 8, 2006, 05:21 AM
Guys, the Finder is the top secret feature. It doesn't take a genius to work that out. That's why the Finder shown in the preview yesterday is exactly the same as the Finder in Tiger.

kresh
Aug 8, 2006, 05:40 AM
I don't mean to sound dumb, well to be honest I can't help it :p

But just how much space is this time machine going to eat up?

If it stores a backup of everything, that's going to get huge in a hurry. For example. What happens if I have a 400 MB video file and I make 20 changes, and save the file after every change.

I could see this growing to be a storage monster if it keeps every iteration of everything that I do. That 400 MB video would take up 8GB in my time machine, with 20 copies of it. Do that 100 times over a couple of years and that just gets nuts

Is it only going to store the actual changes and not the whole file again? This is making my head spin, could someone explain how it's going to store backups physically? I know it's not even out yet, but I figure that one of you really smart people already know how this will work. (You're all smarter than me hehe)

Thanks in advance :)

steviem
Aug 8, 2006, 05:52 AM
I think you can control when the data gets backed up, and it would be good if you could delete versions after a certain time. They must have the scenarios worked out, otherwise for my 40GB iBook HD and 80GB LaCie external drive, I'd need about a TB * to be able to go back in time for the year of changes.

*This wasn't a true estimate, just an exagerrated guess...

gnasher729
Aug 8, 2006, 06:10 AM
Has anybody found Xcode 2.4 yet? It's not up on ADC as far as I can see.

There is a link to a disk image at "http://developer.apple.com/tools/download/", but when I click on it I am asked for my ADC member password, and on the next page there is no trace of Xcode 2.4. Only a link to XCode 2.3 download. Maybe they just got the name wrong, but I won't download 915 MB to find out.

gnasher729
Aug 8, 2006, 06:15 AM
* An unconfirmed forum post claims (http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=304580) that the Mac Pro CPUs are swappable.

Intel price for 2.66 GHz woodcrest is $690, 3.00 is $851, and you need two of them. Instead of upgrading, you might as well buy another Mac Pro.

arn
Aug 8, 2006, 06:20 AM
More photos

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/0808/wwdc02.htm

More screenshots

http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?story=2006080714382835

motulist
Aug 8, 2006, 06:32 AM
What happens if I have a 400 MB video file and I make 20 changes, and save the file after every change.

When you save a video project it does not rewrite all the video files you're using as a source of footage, it just writes a new project file which describes how those source video files should be edited together. So Time Machine would not resave all the source files over and over, just the very small video project file that changed.

Squire
Aug 8, 2006, 06:34 AM
Several members have voiced their disapproval over the Mac Pro's exclusion of Front Row and Photo Booth. However, Jobs did say that 10.5 would include "the complete package." He then went on to say that Boot Camp, Front Row, and Photo Booth would be included in the OS. So my question is this: How will one use Front Row on the new Mac Pro?

-Squire

-hh
Aug 8, 2006, 06:40 AM
Time Machine is nothing like System Restore. Time Machine allows you to find multiple previous versions of a file. For example, if you accidentally save a revised file without changing the name with "Save As", you can still go back to the previous version of the file if you decide you don't like the revisions or if a file is lost or damaged...

Time Machine reminds me a little bit about how MS-Word allows "Quick Saves" to documents: what it basically does is leave the original file alone, but then appends the incremental changes to the end of the file. It makes saving the file faster, at the expense of making the file slower to load (and larger).

From here, its not too much of a leap. Simply:
a) Take what MS had had for years and make it crash-proof
b) Extend it from one Application to be supported System wide.

Now if Apple can only beat MS out of the gate on the release date...

They could do ads like this:

(Cue I'm a Mac/I'm a PC music.)
Mac: Hello, I'm a Mac.
PC: And I'm a PC.
Mac: You know, I'm really excited, I have this new operating system called Leopard...
PC: Oh yes, I 'm going to have a new operating system too, called Vista...sometime soon...I think...well, at least there's an 80% chance I will...
Mac: That's great! ...


Personally, I don't think that's going to be Apple's strategy: I think Steve's laying the groundwork for a big "Mindshare" grab by raising the bar right after Vista finally ships.

(Cue I'm a Mac/I'm a PC music.)

Mac: Hello, I'm a Mac.
PC: And I'm a PC.

Mac: Hey, congratuations - Vista has finally shipped!

PC: Well, thanks. As you see, I can now do this...
Mac: Yeah, I had that last year (Tiger)

PC: And I can now also do this...
Mac: That's really great (2004; Panther)

PC: And I can now also do this...
Mac: And its about time (2003; Jaguar)

PC: so I now just about have everything Apple said it would give you when it previewed your new OS five months ago.

Mac: yeah, well now that Vista's shipped, we no longer have to worry about being too distracting to Vista's developers.

PC: you, distracting?
Mac: Uh, yeah. I mean, you really, really, needed a more secure OS.

PC: Gosh, you can say that again. But...distracting?

Mac: Well, we didn't exactly announce everything we shipped. Ever heard of "One More Thing"? (insert mind-blowing new features here).

PC: That's not in Vista.

Mac: Oh, and this stuff has already shipped too...its included -free- in Leopard. Mac users just need to do a "Software Update" to get it activated.

PC: you know, come to think of it, I haven't opened that Vista upgrade yet, so I can still return it. And my hardware is getting pretty old. Hey Mac, think you might be able to help me pick out a new machine?

Mac: Have you been to 5th Avenue in New York recently...?


-hh

aafuss1
Aug 8, 2006, 06:49 AM
Anyone who is a AASP or has a Service Source account would have Service Source access to a restricted area, service.info.apple.com , the service manual is available-macpro.pdf.

It is 28MB.

Training-http://service.info.apple.com/service_training/macpro-aasp/index.html (anyone who is a AASP or has a Service Source account would have Service Source access, so they can use this link).
There's a RSS feed there now-giving a list and details of manuals that have been revised-a bit like what Sony ESI's manuals have-a revision history page.
Developer note-public:
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/HardwareDrivers/Conceptual/Mac_Pro_0608/index.html
The computer comes with Mac OS X version 10.4.7 installed.
ADC site redesigned too.
The value of the computer model machine identifier string is MacPro1,1.

Notes from the service manual for those who have access to it:
On page 65, there is a procedure for removing the Xeons-as a photo on page 66 indicates, these are socketed dual 771 pin LGA sockets. That means it is possible to change the processor yourself, but Apple obviously won't support 3rd-party swaps.

As, I expected-multiple PCI-E slots, so you can a multi display set up-up to 8. NVIDIA and ATI
RAM-is on a riser card (p19)
Power Supply-is at the top (p 26), cables- custom, 4 cables, unlike with many other Core 2's which have a single ATX cable. Connector-is it still F-Type or back to 3 pin, kettle style?
SuperDrive-which model?, procedure-p 14
BT-separate, as is AirPort-the card looks the iMac's card (p 44/47)
Antenna-on the bottom-covered by a plastic cover (procedure-p 96)

Mac OS X Server-is now universal:
Using Mac OS X Server on Mac Pro
Mac OS X Server can run on Mac Pro as a supported configuration; in fact, it is available through the Apple Store as a Configure-to-Order option. Mac Pro is the first Intel-based Mac to support Apple's server software. Mac Pro uses the Universal (v. 10.4.7) version of Mac OS X Server.


Mac OS X Server v10.4.7 (Universal) supports installation onto any Macintosh server or desktop computer with an Intel or PowerPC G4 or G5 processor. Mac OS X Server v10.4.7 (Universal) is available through the Apple Store as a Configure-to-Order option for Mac Pro.

This release of Mac OS X Server v10.4 continues to support upgrades from Mac OS X Server v10.2 and Mac OS X Server v10.3. Upgrades from Mac OS X Server v10.4 (PowerPC) to Mac OS X Server v10.4 (Universal) are not supported.

Improvements in Mac OS X Server v10.4.7 (Universal) include:

Improved performance (AFP, SMB/CIFS, NFS, Java JVM).


VNC support is enabled by default when installing Mac OS X Server for remote installation and setup from non-Mac OS X systems.


64-bit MySQL.


Xcode 2.4 with support for developing 64-bit applications for Intel processors.

Ktulu
Aug 8, 2006, 07:17 AM
When I first saw Core Animation and Spaces and how they worked and what they were capable of I immediately thought of what many people here have said before when Boot Camp first came out.

These two technologies, when combined, could make possible the idea of "Fast OS Switching". Could one of the "Top Secret" features be that Boot Camp was just there as a primer. It will still be there and operate in the same way but without the re-booting hassle. With Core Animation and Spaces, you could possibly have it running just as another user and "Fast Switch" between them. Being a part of Leopard now-(Boot Camp) it would stand to reason that these new technologies will be more easily accessable and used by Boot Camp.

Just a thought, let me know what you think.:D

Core Trio
Aug 8, 2006, 07:40 AM
Im surprised we havent seen anyone ranting about the fact that there were no obvious hints to UI changes in the preview. Even the desktop wallpaper was the same as tiger.

Roller
Aug 8, 2006, 07:55 AM
Steve looks unhealthy. He's not as sharp as he used to be. His keynotes were flawless. He stuttered several times, forgot what he was saying in mid sentence, and handed a considerable amount of the keynote to other people. Steve was a control freak in past WWDC keynotes.

I think he may be in not-so-good health. But I've said that before.

I had the same reaction... he almost looked gaunt. I just compared shots of Steve yesterday with his appearance at the January Macworld Expo, and there's a noticeable difference. Plus, the tag team approach to demoing Leopard's features made it seem as if he needed time to rest in between the parts of his presentation.

DavidLeblond
Aug 8, 2006, 08:07 AM
I enjoyed the new features. They seemed "meh" to me when I was reading the live transcript, but when I actually saw them they impressed me. Timewarp is so much more than "volume shadow copy" and Spaces is much more than "virtual desktops ala X11"

Anyway, this developer preview is suppose to have the 10 new features in it... does that mean it will have the new Frontrow and the new Photobooth? Because weren't they part of the "whole package" feature?

pherplexed
Aug 8, 2006, 08:21 AM
does anybody know if Spaces is supposed to replace expose? or is it just another tool that works with Expose?

and i'm curious...there's only one eject button on a standard mac keyboard. now there's two drives :confused:

Oh, i know: ctrl+cmd+opt+shift+eject!

freeny
Aug 8, 2006, 08:23 AM
10:24 am lots more announcements during the next week

best to just wait and see......

Last time Steve promised More announcements to come we got that boom box thing:rolleyes:

I wouldnt hold your breath on anything profound or ground breaking.....

easlerjj
Aug 8, 2006, 08:39 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)
"* An unconfirmed forum post claims (http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=304580) that the Mac Pro CPUs are swappable."

It's true. The Mac Pro service manual is now available to technicians, which includes instructions for replacing the CPUs.

jephrey
Aug 8, 2006, 08:54 AM
My speculation is simple... Front row wasn't shown just because they're not ready to release the new cinema displays with built-in cameras yet. My guess is that the price-drop on the existing displays is to move them before the ones with integrated cameras are intro'd.

Jephrey

aafuss1
Aug 8, 2006, 08:57 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)
"* An unconfirmed forum post claims (http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=304580) that the Mac Pro CPUs are swappable."

It's true. The Mac Pro service manual is now available to technicians, which includes instructions for replacing the CPUs.

I confirmed it too-technicians who have the manual, can go to page 65/66 to see the 2 sockets.

No Xserve manual yet.

MacBoobsPro
Aug 8, 2006, 09:16 AM
Im surprised we havent seen anyone ranting about the fact that there were no obvious hints to UI changes in the preview. Even the desktop wallpaper was the same as tiger.

Yeh suspiciously 'samey' :D I think it will change when Leopard finally ships. Did you notice iChat UI had changed ;)

Also I think FrontRow will be bluetooth enabled (with new remote) when Leopard ships so MacPros can use it.

As well as some REALLY cool stuff that will take OSX even further in front of Vista.

Oh and a feature I requested by Apple Feedback is in Leopard. Woohoo!!! Its only the pixel dimensions when dragging out a screenshot but i asked for it. Maybe a few others did too? :D

smeager
Aug 8, 2006, 09:18 AM
I haven't heard anything about Xcode 2.4 anywhere apart from here. are you sure about it? i really don't think it has been released. been checking as much as i can everywhere, and i've seen nothing. might be getting it mixed up with Xcode 3.0 that's going to be in Leopard? maybe?

Cya
http://axman6.homeip.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/weblogo-al7.png (http://axman6.homeip.net/blog/)

They do have a download image on their site but it dosen't lead to anything. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/smeager/Xcode2.png

mwswami
Aug 8, 2006, 09:18 AM
My speculation is simple... Front row wasn't shown just because they're not ready to release the new cinema displays with built-in cameras yet. My guess is that the price-drop on the existing displays is to move them before the ones with integrated cameras are intro'd.

JephreyI believe Apple could address this in the (near) future in the following ways:

1. New Cinema Displays with IR (and iSight), or

2. Separate IR accessory (USB/IR and Apple Remote) that can be used with older Macs as well, or

3. iSight 2.0 with built in IR sensor.

In my opinion 1. is unlikely because unlike iMacs and notebooks, Mac Pros are frequently used with multiple monitors. It doesn't make sense to build this function in every monitor. So we may see larger and better Cinema Displays but I don't expect to see iSight/IR built-in.

2. is better but 3. is the best because it solves two problems with the same solution. The iSight is in need of better optics as well. I expect to see it later in the year especially as the accessory would also make a good Xmas stocking stuffer.

sunfast
Aug 8, 2006, 09:29 AM
Also I think FrontRow will be bluetooth enabled (with new remote) when Leopard ships so MacPros can use it.

Provided they added the BT option.....

ArizonaKid
Aug 8, 2006, 09:50 AM
Steve looks unhealthy. He's not as sharp as he used to be. His keynotes were flawless. He stuttered several times, forgot what he was saying in mid sentence, and handed a considerable amount of the keynote to other people. Steve was a control freak in past WWDC keynotes.

I think he may be in not-so-good health. But I've said that before.

He was probably up all night worried about how Apple has to restate their earnings. And Stevo is a big part of the SEC's probe.

shawnce
Aug 8, 2006, 09:56 AM
There is a link to a disk image at "http://developer.apple.com/tools/download/", but when I click on it I am asked for my ADC member password, and on the next page there is no trace of Xcode 2.4. Only a link to XCode 2.3 download. Maybe they just got the name wrong, but I won't download 915 MB to find out.

Since it is a large download Apple is doing a staggered roll out of the download (Apple folks stated this). It appears to be rolled to premier members, then select, and finally free members.

chiamon
Aug 8, 2006, 09:56 AM
Anyone knows if the mac pro allows us to upgrade to PCI graphics cards bought from retail stores? Will there be any driver issues? Do graphics card vendors include Mac drivers on their installation disc? Never seen one that does though..

shawnce
Aug 8, 2006, 09:57 AM
does anybody know if Spaces is supposed to replace expose? or is it just another tool that works with Expose? No. Yes.

ArizonaKid
Aug 8, 2006, 09:57 AM
I have to descent from the mass and say I was not impressed by the Keynote. What the hell is with Safari still having the brushed metal interface, as well as the finder, etc...

I thought they were finally going to get rid of that and get some consistency in their GUI. :mad:

Overall, I am much more interested in the developers. When is OS X going to be more than a different OS and get some key native applications? Apple continues to lead the show, as they should, but they should take a hint from Microsoft and promote their developers more. Like it or not, it's not Apple, but ultimately their developers that will grow the platform.

Steve really should have pressed the developers to commit on stage to release dates...if that was possible. Microsoft should have been present to provide some information in regards to the next version of Office and its time frame for release.

spinko
Aug 8, 2006, 10:00 AM
I had the same reaction... he almost looked gaunt. I just compared shots of Steve yesterday with his appearance at the January Macworld Expo, and there's a noticeable difference. Plus, the tag team approach to demoing Leopard's features made it seem as if he needed time to rest in between the parts of his presentation.

jobs quote:

"money is not everything".

Has his recent illness has made him more humble and wise ?

MacBoobsPro
Aug 8, 2006, 10:02 AM
Provided they added the BT option.....

Oh yeh... bugger! :o

MacBoobsPro
Aug 8, 2006, 10:09 AM
I have to descent from the mass and say I was not impressed by the Keynote. What the hell is with Safari still having the brushed metal interface, as well as the finder, etc...

I thought they were finally going to get rid of that and get some consistency in their GUI. :mad:

Overall, I am much more interested in the developers. When is OS X going to be more than a different OS and get some key native applications? Apple continues to lead the show, as they should, but they should take a hint from Microsoft and promote their developers more. Like it or not, it's not Apple, but ultimately their developers that will grow the platform.

Steve really should have pressed the developers to commit on stage to release dates...if that was possible. Microsoft should have been present to provide some information in regards to the next version of Office and its time frame for release.

How can he press them for release times when they haven't even got their hands on the new Developer kit?

Also its up to the developers i.e. Adobe et al to get the key native apps out the door. Apple is doing everything it can to help them. i.e. Xcode 2.x, hands on labs etc. Thats what WWDC is for.

chiamon
Aug 8, 2006, 10:12 AM
Anyone knows if the mac pro allows us to upgrade to PCI graphics cards bought from retail stores? Will there be any driver issues? Do graphics card vendors include Mac drivers on their installation disc? Never seen one that does though..

joeboy_45101
Aug 8, 2006, 10:12 AM
Steve looks unhealthy. He's not as sharp as he used to be. His keynotes were flawless. He stuttered several times, forgot what he was saying in mid sentence, and handed a considerable amount of the keynote to other people. Steve was a control freak in past WWDC keynotes.

I think he may be in not-so-good health. But I've said that before.

He might be a little under the weather, but he'll be fine. If you go back and watch the video from the WWDC '05 he looked totally out of place; dressed in all black and very little energy. It's a fluxional phenomenon with his appearance. WWDC '05 he looked terrible, Apple Special Event #1(Intel iMac & iPod Nano) he looked great, Apple Special Event #2 (iPod Video) he looked great, Macworkd '06 he looked fine, Apple Special Event #3(iPod HiFi announcement) he looked like he had just woke up.

The one thing to remember is that this is a Developer's Conference so there is not going to be a lot of pizazz with flashy announcements. There was not a whole lot of new mind-blowing things announced so he could have been a little bit bored with it.

No matter what, with the transition to Intel chips complete now Apple can start devoting more time to truly new designs and hardware.

MacBoobsPro
Aug 8, 2006, 10:16 AM
He might be a little under the weather, but he'll be fine. If you go back and watch the video from the WWDC '05 he looked totally out of place; dressed in all black and very little energy. It's a fluxional phenomenon with his appearance. WWDC '05 he looked terrible, Apple Special Event #1(Intel iMac & iPod Nano) he looked great, Apple Special Event #2 (iPod Video) he looked great, Macworkd '06 he looked fine, Apple Special Event #3(iPod HiFi announcement) he looked like he had just woke up.

The one thing to remember is that this is a Developer's Conference so there is not going to be a lot of pizazz with flashy announcements. There was not a whole lot of new mind-blowing things announced so he could have been a little bit bored with it.

No matter what, with the transition to Intel chips complete now Apple can start devoting more time to truly new designs and hardware.

This kind of talk happens every keynote. Pardon my ignorance but what is wrong with him exactly? :confused:

Schado
Aug 8, 2006, 10:21 AM
Regarding Steve and arguably not his best keynote - What if in fact he did have a 'one more thing' but for some reason at the last minute was decided not to announce due to quality control, lack of quantity, a contractual hurdle, etc. He keeps those close hold and well its a possibility, especially that 'odd' comment up front about 'Money isn't everything'. Cryptic msg? Then again maybe he just had a bout of flu!

As far as the 'gap' between consumer and pro machines. MacWorld would be an ideal place to launch a prosumer device that has core duo, meet the mid-level user reqts but still be at nice pricepoint, and as an added bonus, now incorporates full home media functionality via BT or Airport :cool:

Would give the pro line a few months to get established, not take away from bottom line and would be so hot and in demand would be another home run :p

dashiel
Aug 8, 2006, 10:41 AM
I have to descent from the mass and say I was not impressed by the Keynote. What the hell is with Safari still having the brushed metal interface, as well as the finder, etc...

I thought they were finally going to get rid of that and get some consistency in their GUI. :mad:


you mean dissent. great feature of OS X, hover over a word and hit control-command-D and you get a pop-up dictionary element defining the word.

as for the UI, that's the easiest thing in the world to implement at the last minute. it would be dumb from a marketing stand point to release that now 9 months or so prior to leopard's release. right now microsoft has caught up in many ways to the aqua look and feel (okay will catch up), while i don't think microsoft has the kind of time to implement GUI ideas in to vista, the general public are easily distracted. release the GUI now then tell them not for 9 months and they're going to get bored with it. when leopard ships the GUI will have a "been there, done that" feel about it. now announce it at MWSF '07 and tell everyone you're shipping in april, now you're on. you scuttle vista by showing off a UI that is different, and hopefully superior to vista's rip off of aqua and you have a better chance of maintaining interest.

i saw some hints to this effect when the french gentleman was poking fun at vista.


Overall, I am much more interested in the developers. When is OS X going to be more than a different OS and get some key native applications? Apple continues to lead the show, as they should, but they should take a hint from Microsoft and promote their developers more. Like it or not, it's not Apple, but ultimately their developers that will grow the platform.

what do you mean by "native"? all OS X apps not running in classic or rosetta are native. photoshop is never going to have OS X exclusive features, it's never going to feel like an application from the omni group because it has to work cross platform.

as for developers, things like core audio, core video, core data, etc... are huge.

michaelrjohnson
Aug 8, 2006, 10:46 AM
Aas for the UI, that's the easiest thing in the world to implement at the last minute. it would be dumb from a marketing stand point to release that now 9 months or so prior to leopard's release. right now microsoft has caught up in many ways to the aqua look and feel (okay will catch up), while i don't think microsoft has the kind of time to implement GUI ideas in to vista, the general public are easily distracted. release the GUI now then tell them not for 9 months and they're going to get bored with it. when leopard ships the GUI will have a "been there, done that" feel about it. now announce it at MWSF '07 and tell everyone you're shipping in april, now you're on. you scuttle vista by showing off a UI that is different, and hopefully superior to vista's rip off of aqua and you have a better chance of maintaining interest.
I agree 100% with your assessment. I am certain that Apple will be modifying the Finder in the final release of Leopard (They have in every other major OS X release), and I fully expect to see that at a major demo at MWSF 07. I feel that's really where we're going to see Leopard, and hopefully by then, Vista will have gone GM, but who knows...

playaj82
Aug 8, 2006, 10:57 AM
I agree 100% with your assessment. I am certain that Apple will be modifying the Finder in the final release of Leopard (They have in every other major OS X release), and I fully expect to see that at a major demo at MWSF 07. I feel that's really where we're going to see Leopard, and hopefully by then, Vista will have gone GM, but who knows...

I don't see how adjusting the UI at the last minute could be any sort of OK. Do you really want developers using the Tiger finder for the next 7 months, and then all of the sudden Apple goes BAM (Emeril Style) and puts in a brand new finder.

I want those developers to be able to integrate the finder with their apps. If all Apple is doing is adjusting some colors or icons or something, then we shouldn't be excited about the new finder in the first place. But if Apple is going to do some major revamping, shame on them for keeping it a secret.

People need time to work with it and find all the kinks, especially if it is dramatically different from Tiger.

odedia
Aug 8, 2006, 11:12 AM
jobs quote:

"money is not everything".

Has his recent illness has made him more humble and wise ?

To be fair, the exact quote if i can recall was "money isn't everything in R&D". meaning, we can give you a better OS with less money than Microsoft.

LtRammstein
Aug 8, 2006, 11:13 AM
Apple may have released Xcod 2.4. But it's only for those at the WWDC. I checked Apple's ADC website, and they have it listed, but it redirects you to http://connect.apple.com. I did some more digging, and they only have 2.3 on the site. They might upload it after the WWDC.


Steve

PS: I'm at work.

Update:

http://www.uwyo.edu/sigma_nu/Pictures/Xcode.jpg

michaelrjohnson
Aug 8, 2006, 11:24 AM
I don't see how adjusting the UI at the last minute could be any sort of OK. Do you really want developers using the Tiger finder for the next 7 months, and then all of the sudden Apple goes BAM (Emeril Style) and puts in a brand new finder.

I want those developers to be able to integrate the finder with their apps. If all Apple is doing is adjusting some colors or icons or something, then we shouldn't be excited about the new finder in the first place. But if Apple is going to do some major revamping, shame on them for keeping it a secret.

People need time to work with it and find all the kinks, especially if it is dramatically different from Tiger.
I understand your point. I do, however, feel that Apple has more of the platform's long-term best interests at heart, versus the developers delay of a UI for 5 months.

If we're to assume the "Top Secret to prevent photocopying" theory, then these next 5 months are more crucial to Apple's development than the platform developers. Come January, Apple might spill all the details of the (currently speculative) Finder, and developers have from then until release date to incorporate it. Sure, it's a delay of 5 months, but think big-picture. If Apple's secretiveness prevents Vista from incorporating Leopard UI traits, it's worth the wait to make Leopard appear further ahead.*

*We all know this is a rumor site, but the above is purely speculation on my part.

Zadillo
Aug 8, 2006, 11:30 AM
I have to descent from the mass and say I was not impressed by the Keynote. What the hell is with Safari still having the brushed metal interface, as well as the finder, etc...

I thought they were finally going to get rid of that and get some consistency in their GUI. :mad:

Did you stop to think for just a second that Apple is not showing the new Finder yet, and that the Finder included with Leopard right now is the Tiger one?

-Zadillo

Zadillo
Aug 8, 2006, 11:33 AM
I don't see how adjusting the UI at the last minute could be any sort of OK. Do you really want developers using the Tiger finder for the next 7 months, and then all of the sudden Apple goes BAM (Emeril Style) and puts in a brand new finder.


Just because they aren't showing the Finder yet doesn't m ean they will only spring it on devs the day that Leopard ships commercially. There's a significant amount of time between now and then.

Probably when they do though, it will be under NDA, and they'll try and keep as much of it under wraps for as long as possible.

-Zadillo

Sky Blue
Aug 8, 2006, 11:44 AM
Apple may have released Xcod 2.4. But it's only for those at the WWDC. I checked Apple's ADC website, and they have it listed, but it redirects you to http://connect.apple.com. I did some more digging, and they only have 2.3 on the site. They might upload it after the WWDC.


Steve

PS: I'm at work.

Update:

http://www.uwyo.edu/sigma_nu/Pictures/Xcode.jpg

Ha! TOAD!

pyramid6
Aug 8, 2006, 11:46 AM
It's a http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?cc=gb&lc=en&ver=4000&template=pp1_loader&php=PHP1_10297&zone=pp&lm=pp1&pid=10297.

:(

playaj82
Aug 8, 2006, 11:48 AM
I understand your point. I do, however, feel that Apple has more of the platform's long-term best interests at heart, versus the developers delay of a UI for 5 months.

If we're to assume the "Top Secret to prevent photocopying" theory, then these next 5 months are more crucial to Apple's development than the platform developers. Come January, Apple might spill all the details of the (currently speculative) Finder, and developers have from then until release date to incorporate it. Sure, it's a delay of 5 months, but think big-picture. If Apple's secretiveness prevents Vista from incorporating Leopard UI traits, it's worth the wait to make Leopard appear further ahead.*

*We all know this is a rumor site, but the above is purely speculation on my part.

I guess I'm just not seeing the point in keeping stuff secret.

I understand that Apple uses the photocopy thing as a joke, but in all reality, it isn't like Microsoft is stealing lines of code. The features that Apple has included are not necessarily original. They are just original as being "incorporated" in the OS.

Big picture, they should have spilled it all. The reaction to Leopard has already been rather blah. And so what if Microsoft steals one or two "top secret" features.

Time Machine - nothing new conceptually, just graphically improved
Spaces - A blatant rip of "Virtue" for OS X
Mail Improvements - I already have plugins that do most of that
iChat - About 1000 people have already pointed out a been there, done that for iChat

All of Apple's supposed "new" features are not as new as they seem.
I like what they are doing with the stuff, but right now they need to save their *** and give away some "secret" features before people stop caring.

michaelrjohnson
Aug 8, 2006, 11:56 AM
All of Apple's supposed "new" features are not as new as they seem.
I like what they are doing with the stuff, but right now they need to save their *** and give away some "secret" features before people stop caring.
I don't think that they're in any danger of that. This was a sneak peek. It was not a Beta Release, it is not a "features complete" release. Come January, if there aren't major improvements, then I think what you're suggesting could be discussed further. Until then, it's not fair to say that Leopard isn't going to be a success. We simply don't know enough about the final version to make any level of educated statement in that regard.

playaj82
Aug 8, 2006, 12:03 PM
I don't think that they're in any danger of that. This was a sneak peek. It was not a Beta Release, it is not a "features complete" release. Come January, if there aren't major improvements, then I think what you're suggesting could be discussed further. Until then, it's not fair to say that Leopard isn't going to be a success. We simply don't know enough about the final version to make any level of educated statement in that regard.

The only problem with that is from a business standpoint, Apple needed to come out and shine. In previous releases, Win XP was just a stagnant operating system, so OS X always looked light years ahead.

The deal now is that Apple is on a head to head collision course with Microsoft as to whose OS grabs the consumer. I just think Apple had a huge opportunity to get the Mac Community excited or would be Mac users excited and to completely outshine Vista, and they didn't reach nearly as high as they should have.

I have no question in my mind that Leopard will be amazing, it will have a number of great new features, it will be fast, etc... but Apple had tons of amazing products in the mid-1990s that were poorly executed and died before they ever got off the ground. These products died from a business end, not a technological end.

Lollypop
Aug 8, 2006, 12:16 PM
Does anyone know more about the FB-dimm memory used on the mac pro? from what I know its still ultra new, and only used by intel on their xeon line. Shouldn't this mean supper expensive and rare memory???

Kingsly
Aug 8, 2006, 12:36 PM
I asked a nice lady at the information booth if there were any leftover tickets for the keynote, and If I could have a WWDC2006 computer bag.


















'no,' she said. :o

dashiel
Aug 8, 2006, 12:51 PM
I don't see how adjusting the UI at the last minute could be any sort of OK. Do you really want developers using the Tiger finder for the next 7 months, and then all of the sudden Apple goes BAM (Emeril Style) and puts in a brand new finder.

a) apple did the exact same thing with OS X. aqua was kept under wraps for a long, long time from the general public and public developers. up until maybe a year before hand we all though OS X was going to look like OS 9.

b) if you work with big software makers you'll know that top tier developers get access to things that aren't made publicly available months and years in advance. the last alpha/beta cycle i participated in started one month after the latest release (and i was on the second invite list).

I want those developers to be able to integrate the finder with their apps. If all Apple is doing is adjusting some colors or icons or something, then we shouldn't be excited about the new finder in the first place. But if Apple is going to do some major revamping, shame on them for keeping it a secret.

People need time to work with it and find all the kinks, especially if it is dramatically different from Tiger

a) see above regarding developers. just because we didn't see it in the keynote doesn't mean that the developers haven't

b) app developers don't really integrate with the finder.

c) tiger represented a big shift in OS X development. apple publicly stated that their APIs, previously a moving target, were basically being locked down. what that means is developers don't have to worry (as much) about under the hood changes. if the file browser dialog changes dramatically between now and next spring developers should theoretically have to do nothing, their function/method calls are just calls.

briansolomon
Aug 8, 2006, 01:04 PM
Does anyone else find it strange/ridiculous that AirPort Express and Bluetooth come standard on every system except the high end Mac Pro?

danielwsmithee
Aug 8, 2006, 01:28 PM
Does anyone else find it strange/ridiculous that AirPort Express and Bluetooth come standard on every system except the high end Mac Pro?No I find that personally reasonable. How often are you going to be moving around your desktop? Many companies would not allow them in the building with those features. The upgrade price is reasonable.

danielwsmithee
Aug 8, 2006, 01:28 PM
I'm hopping for this case with a e6600 Core 2 Duo. I love the new HD Bays.

loebjack
Aug 8, 2006, 01:29 PM
I just received my Mac Pro and started opening it up to see how it was put together. I wanted to know what parts Apple used. A Sony super drive and a Seagate SATA hard drive. I am adding pictures as I take them. More than what I posted before.

http://digg.com/apple/More_Take_apart_pictures_of_the_Mac_Pro

enda1
Aug 8, 2006, 01:29 PM
Does anyone else find it strange/ridiculous that AirPort Express and Bluetooth come standard on every system except the high end Mac Pro?


I do. But I'm sure someone will tell us that we are idiots for thinking so and why it is sooo obvious why they don't include them. My guess is they will use loads of acronyms ;)

michaelrjohnson
Aug 8, 2006, 01:33 PM
a) apple did the exact same thing with OS X. aqua was kept under wraps for a long, long time from the general public and public developers. up until maybe a year before hand we all though OS X was going to look like OS 9.

b) if you work with big software makers you'll know that top tier developers get access to things that aren't made publicly available months and years in advance. the last alpha/beta cycle i participated in started one month after the latest release (and i was on the second invite list).



a) see above regarding developers. just because we didn't see it in the keynote doesn't mean that the developers haven't

b) app developers don't really integrate with the finder.

c) tiger represented a big shift in OS X development. apple publicly stated that their APIs, previously a moving target, were basically being locked down. what that means is developers don't have to worry (as much) about under the hood changes. if the file browser dialog changes dramatically between now and next spring developers should theoretically have to do nothing, their function/method calls are just calls.
You hit a lot of points here that I chose not to present. You are correct.
a) The OS X preview UI was definitely a surprise, that's for sure.
b) Very true.
a) True, but I think this only applies to the "top tier" developers, as you suggest. (Adobe, for example)
b) Exactly! Other than visually... (Which it's easy to skin your app to match (see Uno))
c) If this is true (which I could understand, but have no evidence of) are you suggesting Apple laid the groundwork for a UI overhaul in Tiger and didn't apply it?

michaelrjohnson
Aug 8, 2006, 01:37 PM
I do. But I'm sure someone will tell us that we are idiots for thinking so and why it is sooo obvious why they don't include them. My guess is they will use loads of acronyms ;)
Well the GBT Standard Methodology of Computer Hardware End-User Inclusions (GBT-SMCHEUI, for short) indicates that any machine weighing over 9.732 lbs. Must not, under the authority of the GBT-SMCHEUI, include the hardware in question, under penalty of law. Duh.

:D

Acually, I'm a bit surprised myself. I mean, they're not going to gain a huge amount of profit by charging people for it. Oh well, my guess in Rev. B it'll be included.

DJS1234
Aug 8, 2006, 01:50 PM
I can offer a reason as to why some Mac Pro models don't have BT or Airport Extreme, a great deal of the corporate market don't want their machines to be equipped with them.

The company I work for will not purchase any machine with Bluetooth as it represents a risk to our highly confidential data. We could not allow a security vulnerability in a Bluetooth stack to allow security to be compormised or indeed just a rogue employee using BT to transfer data to a cell phone or other device.

Same goes for WiFi, although for some reason we don't see that as being that high a threat (Hey I don't make the rules I just have to follow them!)

This could be why the top end model is sans Bluetooth and WiFi, to keep the Corporate market sweet.

Just my 2 cents anyways:D

tny
Aug 8, 2006, 01:56 PM
Several members have voiced their disapproval over the Mac Pro's exclusion of Front Row and Photo Booth. However, Jobs did say that 10.5 would include "the complete package." He then went on to say that Boot Camp, Front Row, and Photo Booth would be included in the OS. So my question is this: How will one use Front Row on the new Mac Pro?

-Squire

There are five possibilities, in order of (to my mind) decreasing likelihood:

1. New displays will come out by then with both IR and iSight
2. A new iSight will come out by then with built-in IR
3. A little USB device providing IR will become available.
4. A slight update to the Mac Pro will come out by then incorporating IR; PhotoBooth will require the iSight.
5. It won't work on Mac Pro.

EDIT: Missed mwswami's earlier post with some similar comments. Sorry.

Unspeaked
Aug 8, 2006, 02:06 PM
I can offer a reason as to why some Mac Pro models don't have BT or Airport Extreme, a great deal of the corporate market don't want their machines to be equipped with them.

The company I work for will not purchase any machine with Bluetooth as it represents a risk to our highly confidential data. We could not allow a security vulnerability in a Bluetooth stack to allow security to be compormised or indeed just a rogue employee using BT to transfer data to a cell phone or other device.

Same goes for WiFi, although for some reason we don't see that as being that high a threat (Hey I don't make the rules I just have to follow them!)

This could be why the top end model is sans Bluetooth and WiFi, to keep the Corporate market sweet.

Just my 2 cents anyways:D


I've worked with several companies in this same situation.

It's the same reason I doubt we'll see Cinema Displays with built-in iSights.

neonfever
Aug 8, 2006, 02:21 PM
Very similar external case, but the insides are totally new and different--so I think we'll see this case design for quite a while to come. That answers that, you can stop waiting for a new design :)

Lots of great attention to detail--like the way the drive-holders are numbered in case you take more than one out and forget where they came from.

I still wonder where the Airport and Bluetooth antennas are.

The new internal layout of the Mac Pro is ultra-wicked...

Couldn't agree with you more. It seems even if they bring new displays to Paris in Sept they will have the same basic design cues. Which also means that any design update to the macbook pro will be pretty subtle as well. Apple's Pro line-up is destined to carry the same design and silvery/slightly champagne-ish anodized look for quite some time in the future. Why fix something that's not broken?

ArizonaKid
Aug 8, 2006, 02:24 PM
Continuing On...

The Register had a good article that reflects how I feel:

Whatever happened to... Mac OS X Leopard? (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08/08/mac_os_x_leopard_preview/)

I don't like the Microsoft bashing either...it's just something that gets to me. Microsoft bashing is a waste of energy. Who cares what company did what first, as a consumer I don't care about originality. Just give me something that works. Whatever company can implement the idea the best to provide a benefit to ME, gets my business. Just shut up and innovate (like Apple has been doing), the products will speak for themselves.

I don't see iTunes making any references to Windows Media Player in their advertising. They don't have to. That's what is great about being No 1, you really don't care that much about who is below you making noise. I just wish that same mentality was applied to the OS.

Derekasaurus
Aug 8, 2006, 02:24 PM
My bet is on Macbook pro update. with merom processor. maybe even a new form.

Jobs was referring to third-party software announcements. He would have mentioned something big like an MBP update in the keynote.

Derekasaurus
Aug 8, 2006, 02:28 PM
I don't like the Microsoft bashing either...it's just something that gets to me. Microsoft bashing is a waste of energy. Who cares what company did what first, as a consumer I don't care about originality. Just give me something that works. Whatever company can implement the idea the best to provide a benefit to ME, gets my business. Just shut up and innovate (like Apple has been doing), the products will speak for themselves.

I agree totally. If anything all the bashing makes Apple (and its fans) seem insecure. Just deliver the goods and let the marketshare speak for itself. (Plus the mightier-than-thou attitude alienates PC users and makes them think twice about joining "the cult".)

ArizonaKid
Aug 8, 2006, 02:35 PM
Did you stop to think for just a second that Apple is not showing the new Finder yet, and that the Finder included with Leopard right now is the Tiger one?

-Zadillo

I have the same speculation that Apple will overhaul the Finder; however, it would have been nice to have an updated GUI (with no brushed metal) simply for consistency in the preview.

...part of that speculation is hope. Windows Vista's Explorer is nice. It is so easy to navigate folders, and it looks amazing. I really hope the Finder gets a past due overhaul.

dbit
Aug 8, 2006, 02:36 PM
I was quite bummed out about no core 2 duo announcement. Can anybody tell me which, if any, pc companies are shipping with core 2 duo yet? Is this possibly going to be a silent release, and is it perhaps still happening in August or are we in for another long wait? :confused:

tyler999
Aug 8, 2006, 02:38 PM
The video of the wireless mac hack has finally been made publically available on Kaneva:

http://www.kaneva.com/asset/8469.storeItem

Just in time for developcon...

ArizonaKid
Aug 8, 2006, 02:38 PM
I was quite bummed out about no core 2 duo announcement. Can anybody tell me which, if any, pc companies are shipping with core 2 duo yet? Is this possibly going to be a silent release, and is it perhaps still happening in August or are we in for another long wait? :confused:

For the Desktop
LINK TO CORE 2 DUO DESKTOPS (http://www.intel.com/buy/core2duo.htm)

Add: I checked Dell, and their ship date for a Core 2 Duo System is August 12

dbit
Aug 8, 2006, 02:40 PM
For the Desktop
LINK TO CORE 2 DUO DESKTOPS (http://www.intel.com/buy/core2duo.htm)

Ah. I'm drooling for the Merom. Anybody know if it's just not ready yet?

Solver
Aug 8, 2006, 02:46 PM
Did you notice that their were two cameras attached to the Mac screen?

Is this be the beginning of 3D iChat, photos and movies?

shawnce
Aug 8, 2006, 02:59 PM
Did you notice that their were two cameras attached to the Mac screen?

Is this be the beginning of 3D iChat, photos and movies? No. They had two demo systems with matching configurations so if one failed they could switch to the other with a touch of a button. ...in other words one iSight for each demo system they had setup.

MacinDoc
Aug 8, 2006, 03:02 PM
The video of the wireless mac hack has finally been made publically available on Kaneva:

http://www.kaneva.com/asset/8469.storeItem

Just in time for developcon...
That was actually a hack of a wireless USB card, not a hack of the Mac itself; the Mac was just used for publicity. The hack only works with this wireless USB card, not with the built-in wireless. The news stories attached to this stunt were quite misleading...

Plugging a wireless USB card into any computer is just like handing a hacker your keyboard, the computer handles it just like any other input device. So, if you handed a hacker your keyboard and didn't encrypt and password protect your files, would you expect the OS to protect them?

MacBoobsPro
Aug 8, 2006, 04:19 PM
That was actually a hack of a wireless USB card, not a hack of the Mac itself; the Mac was just used for publicity. The hack only works with this wireless USB card, not with the built-in wireless. The news stories attached to this stunt were quite misleading...

Plugging a wireless USB card into any computer is just like handing a hacker your keyboard, the computer handles it just like any other input device. So, if you handed a hacker your keyboard and didn't encrypt and password protect your files, would you expect the OS to protect them?

Also if im not mistaken, the guy actually had to use the mac to get connected to the PC so really its showing us shitall!

MacBoobsPro
Aug 8, 2006, 04:26 PM
Ah. I'm drooling for the Merom. Anybody know if it's just not ready yet?

Why do 'top of the range' PCs all look like they are designed and built by kids using Lego and LEDs?

ArizonaKid
Aug 8, 2006, 04:32 PM
Why do 'top of the range' PCs all look like they are designed and built by kids using Lego and LEDs?

http://home.hawaii.rr.com/chowfamily/lego/

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?contentid=596

http://www.directron.com/contest1win.html

MacBoobsPro
Aug 8, 2006, 04:39 PM
http://home.hawaii.rr.com/chowfamily/lego/

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?contentid=596

http://www.directron.com/contest1win.html

Thats what Im talking about!

Dells new lineup is looking a bit chunky!

Multimedia
Aug 8, 2006, 05:18 PM
I just received my Mac Pro and started opening it up to see how it was put together. I wanted to know what parts Apple used. A Sony super drive and a Seagate SATA hard drive. I am adding pictures as I take them. More than what I posted before.

http://digg.com/apple/More_Take_apart_pictures_of_the_Mac_ProThanks.

Looks like TWO display adapters instead of the usual ONE. Can you tells us what each are please?

Multimedia
Aug 8, 2006, 05:39 PM
Ah. I'm drooling for the Merom. Anybody know if it's just not ready yet?Not shipping in quantity to Apple until early September.

Peter Weisz
Aug 8, 2006, 07:00 PM
Can anyone confirm the rumor that Apple has removed the OPTION key from all new Mac Pro machines?
I guess Options are a sensitive subject in Cupertino these days.

Yes, Steve did look rather gaunt at yesterday's keynote. But bear two things in mind:
1. He is a recovering pancreatic cancer victim.
2. He is either a vegan or vegetarian.

Steve did seem to rely upon his exec staff more than in the past, but it did give us the opportunity to size them up a bit. A few observations...

1. Phil Schiller looks as though he could hold his own in a Sumo wrestling bout with Steve Ballmer.

2. Bertrand sounded as though he was auditioning for the Inspector Clouseau part in The Pink Panther.

3. Scott Forrestall appeared to be aping Steve Jobs' gestures, mannerisms and speech patterns. Is he the anointed one? Is he being groomed as Jobs' successor? If it happens, you read it here first.

Like most of Wall Street and the world, I hope that neither illness nor executive shuffling prevent Steve from helming Apple for many decades to come.

loebjack
Aug 8, 2006, 07:21 PM
Someone just pointed out that the Mac Pro logic board has two SATA drive ports marked as ODD SATA. We think it is for an Optical Disc Drive SATA connection. Blu-ray perhaps?

http://www.powermax.com/articles_reviews/article.php?id=33

Look at the "Fans removed!" picture in the uper left

Mac Rules
Aug 8, 2006, 07:30 PM
it does not even make sense to put a phone there, since when can phones do RSS? Its just really fishy tt it is placed alongside the ipod and itunes.

Many phones are capable, they can use 3rd party apps etc, but new phones such as the Sony Ericsson K800 has a built in RSS reader!

As for the phone in the picture, it looks like a Sony ERicsosn K608 or someting along those lines....not a very good phone, so lets hope Apple doesnt use that as a bas to model the iPhone on...lol

Cheers

Zargot
Aug 8, 2006, 08:18 PM
*snip* Time Machine sounds like the utility in windose xp called systen restore and Spaces sounds like Exposť.

Time Machine seems more like the Shadow Copies on Server 2003, only on a local level rather than a network drive. (example attached)

I'm assuming they will use a form of Single Instance Storage with TM, so you have one copy of the file and only the deltas from any changes to reduce space requirements.

e-coli
Aug 8, 2006, 08:30 PM
The one thing to remember is that this is a Developer's Conference so there is not going to be a lot of pizazz with flashy announcements. There was not a whole lot of new mind-blowing things announced so he could have been a little bit bored with it.


Bored with such trivial things as THE OPERATING SYSTEM that runs his entire corporation! I highly doubt that's the case.

filmguy
Aug 8, 2006, 08:34 PM
I find it weird that you get a remote control and front row...Many people buying Mac Pros are getting them as their home computer, and it's pretty lame that you drop extra money on the high end and can't do some of the really cool things that can be done on a lower end model.

Hi,

You've raised some good points.

However, many of the people buying Mac Pros are in the creative services industry (film, graphic design, audio engineering). I don't know how processor hungry remote control and front row are, but I do know these users require the most power out of their machines.

Having said that, with ever faster machines, I see no reason for them not to include these two programs in the "complete Leopard package" in 2007 for all Macs sold.

My 2 cents worth. ;)

Regards, filmguy

Sun Baked
Aug 8, 2006, 08:44 PM
Someone just pointed out that the Mac Pro logic board has two SATA drive ports marked as ODD SATA. We think it is for an Optical Disc Drive SATA connection. Blu-ray perhaps?

http://www.powermax.com/articles_reviews/article.php?id=33

Look at the "Fans removed!" picture in the uper leftThose are the 2 SATA ports on the 5000 chipset that Apple didn't use (there are 6 SATA ports.)

Apple notes them as future expansion...In addition, the Mac Pro has two unpopulated 3 Gbps SATA buses for expansion.Since they have a connector use a PCIe cover plate and convert them to external use if you so wish.

JoshRtek
Aug 8, 2006, 08:47 PM
Those are the 2 SATA ports on the 5000x chipset that Apple didn't use (there are 6 SATA ports.)

So what is the bus for the Superdrive? Is it the old Parallel ATA with the ribbon cable?

Sun Baked
Aug 8, 2006, 08:53 PM
So what is the bus for the Superdrive? Is it the old Parallel ATA with the ribbon cable?Yes the chipset has PATA for optical right now, they also show the two unused SATA over by the Optical drive -- but use them for whatever if they are there.

Doesn't mean Apple won't switch and make use of them for optical if there is need.

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/HardwareDrivers/Conceptual/Mac_Pro_0608/Art/060634001312_01.jpg

JoshRtek
Aug 8, 2006, 08:56 PM
Yes the chipset has PATA for optical right now.

Awesome! So this means I can use my Plextor 16x burner in the second optical bay? Or will that not work with an Apple?

kaneda
Aug 8, 2006, 09:22 PM
New Chassis for MAC PRO please..

motulist
Aug 8, 2006, 09:24 PM
... I don't know how processor hungry remote control and front row are, but I do know these users require the most power out of their machines...

The remote and Front Row use essentially no system resources when they are not in use. So they do not take away any processor power or anything else when people are working on power hungry projects. So that's not the reason they were omitted.

So far the best answer I've heard is that the tower will often be under a desk where the remote wouldn't work because it needs a line of sight, but that still doesn't explain why they don't allow it as a custom option.

chiamon
Aug 8, 2006, 10:33 PM
Anyone knows if the mac pro allows us to upgrade to PCI graphics cards bought from retail stores? Will there be any driver issues? Do graphics card vendors include Mac drivers on their installation disc? Never seen one that does though..
Thx for answering.

Multimedia
Aug 8, 2006, 11:43 PM
Awesome! So this means I can use my Plextor 16x burner in the second optical bay? Or will that not work with an Apple?Didn't I tell you yes yesterday? Just buy a copy of Toast 7 for full support. You can also run multiple copioes of Taost 7 on one Mac. I run up to 4 or 5 simultaneously sometimes on my Quad G5 writing DVD Images to multiple HDs.

Multimedia
Aug 8, 2006, 11:52 PM
Yes the chipset has PATA for optical right now, they also show the two unused SATA over by the Optical drive -- but use them for whatever if they are there.

Doesn't mean Apple won't switch and make use of them for optical if there is need.

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/HardwareDrivers/Conceptual/Mac_Pro_0608/Art/060634001312_01.jpg
Wow. Where did you find this schmatic? This means you can alternately run your opticals external on a FW bus outside and put two more SATA Drives inside the "optical is optional" bays for a total of 4.5 TB possible inside (6 x 750GB). Fantastic and Awesome!!

Make them all 400GB @$100 each and you can have 2.4 TB inside for $600.

You can have your system stuff running on one of those with a second for scratch - video - then have 4 removables under the shelf for different clients. KILLER for Client management. This is incredible. I am really getting crazy excited about the new Mac Pro's design. :eek:

Also just went over all the Leopard previews today and am now getting a Jones for Leopard's new features big time. Now for the 8 or 9 month wait. Wow. :eek:

Multimedia
Aug 8, 2006, 11:58 PM
Anyone knows if the mac pro allows us to upgrade to PCI graphics cards bought from retail stores? Will there be any driver issues? Do graphics card vendors include Mac drivers on their installation disc? Never seen one that does though..
Thx for answering.No there are not Mac drivers for cards that aren't Mac specific. So we are always in the dog house when it comes to video cards. It's tragic. :( I don't know if being on an Intel motherboard will help or not. Anyone know?

Sun Baked
Aug 9, 2006, 12:17 AM
Wow. Where did you find this schmatic?Usually it is in the Developer Notes ... we usually look at these to see what Apple is really doing with machines.

Mac Pro Developer Note (http://developer.apple.com/documentation/HardwareDrivers/Conceptual/Mac_Pro_0608/index.html)

Then the are the usual DIY pictures of the machine at...

Mac Pro Support link (http://www.apple.com/support/macpro/)

Until the picture showing the "unpopulated" SATA connector was actually "unused" we were wondering about the 6 SATA ports. But yes, the 2 extra SATA ports mean a lot more options than people first thought.

MacBoobsPro
Aug 9, 2006, 03:16 AM
Time Machine seems more like the Shadow Copies on Server 2003, only on a local level rather than a network drive. (example attached)

I'm assuming they will use a form of Single Instance Storage with TM, so you have one copy of the file and only the deltas from any changes to reduce space requirements.

I think the actual automated backing up of stuff has been aound for years. Its the way Apple does it that makes it great. I mean cmon. Look at the screen shot you posted and then time machine! :D

JoshRtek
Aug 9, 2006, 09:47 AM
Didn't I tell you yes yesterday? Just buy a copy of Toast 7 for full support. You can also run multiple copioes of Taost 7 on one Mac. I run up to 4 or 5 simultaneously sometimes on my Quad G5 writing DVD Images to multiple HDs.

Well, I think you said "maybe," but it's all good now. I will put the Plextor DVD-RW Drive in the bottom bay. Question though, I have Toast 7 for Power PC, but will it work alright under rosetta, or do I have to buy a Universal Binary?

ArizonaKid
Aug 9, 2006, 10:35 AM
Time Machine seems more like the Shadow Copies on Server 2003, only on a local level rather than a network drive. (example attached)

I'm assuming they will use a form of Single Instance Storage with TM, so you have one copy of the file and only the deltas from any changes to reduce space requirements.

I use Shadow Copies on our network all the time, it is very handy. The concept and implementation of Time Machine is not original. Apple simply slapped Eye Candy on it and raved about how it is a revolution.

Outside of my company's network, which has tons of server space, I don't know if I would want Time Machine to automatically make backups. Guess I am just old school and prefer to manually make backups. That way I am maximizing my personal hardrive space.

maxdet
Aug 9, 2006, 12:16 PM
This was a good WWDC. :D Quad Xeons... what I was hoping for since 2004!

When Phil announced the MacPro and the Xeon chip he stressed on an amazing performance per watt ratio. That sounded a lot like Steve introducing the MacBook Pro and iMac with the first Intel chips. At the time the performance per watt ratio was an important criteria for battery life on notebooks, which is apparently why the PowerBook never got a G5.

With the Xeons high perf/watt, should we be expecting them to be fitted in later MacBook and MacBook Pros?

Multimedia
Aug 9, 2006, 12:24 PM
Well, I think you said "maybe," but it's all good now. I will put the Plextor DVD-RW Drive in the bottom bay. Question though, I have Toast 7 for Power PC, but will it work alright under rosetta, or do I have to buy a Universal Binary?No I most certainly did not say "maybe". I said "definitely". The Toast 7.1 update is UB. It's FREE.

Multimedia
Aug 9, 2006, 12:27 PM
When Phil announced the MacPro and the Xeon chip he stressed on an amazing performance per watt ratio. That sounded a lot like Steve introducing the MacBook Pro and iMac with the first Intel chips. At the time the performance per watt ratio was an important criteria for battery life on notebooks, which is apparently why the PowerBook never got a G5.

With the Xeons high perf/watt, should we be expecting them to be fitted in later MacBook and MacBook Pros?No. Mobiles get Merom processors which are made to get maximum performance on the go.

yojitani
Aug 10, 2006, 01:16 PM
Hey, it's thursday. Where are those announcements that were supposed to come out through the week?

JoshRtek
Aug 10, 2006, 01:32 PM
Do Configure-To-Order Macs ship from overseas, or from within the United States? Or does it depend on what it chosen as one's configuration?

kbonnel
Aug 10, 2006, 02:23 PM
Do Configure-To-Order Macs ship from overseas, or from within the United States? Or does it depend on what it chosen as one's configuration?

My standard config from the apple store indicates on the box that it was assembled in China.

Kimo

Lgreer
Aug 10, 2006, 02:30 PM
Did we ever see what was under the covers of the other banners at the WWDC? Was it just pictures of the mac pro?

milo
Aug 10, 2006, 03:04 PM
These are great boxes, and fairly priced for what you get. Should sell like hotcakes to the pros.

But these new machines just make the hole in Apple's product line that much more obvious. No headless machine between $799 and about $2199? No machine between yonah dual 1.6 and xeon quad 2.0? No machine with swappable video card for under two grand??? You'll be able to get a smoking dual core conroe PC for probably half that.

I just hope this isn't the last of the line (hopefully apple is just saying that to brag on the transition speed) and there's a cheap midrange tower running conroe on the way.

If that doesn't happen, Apple needs to update imac and even the mini to fast conroes ASAP. Both were great models at reasonable prices when they shipped, but they're looking long in the tooth and overpriced now. Updates would help close that gap in the product line.

The pros are a HUGE improvement in expandability over the crappy internals of the G5 tower, and the extra usb ports (even 800 on the front!) are very nice. I think it's a bit cheap to leave off the BT and wifi at those prices though, and even though they're pro machines they should throw in Front Row and the remote.

Warbrain
Aug 10, 2006, 06:50 PM
Is it me, or is the internals of the Mac Pro not as sexy as the internals of the PowerMac G5? It just doesn't feel the same.

Maybe it's just me.

milo
Aug 10, 2006, 06:55 PM
Is it me, or is the internals of the Mac Pro not as sexy as the internals of the PowerMac G5? It just doesn't feel the same.

Maybe it's just me.

Doesn't feel the same at all. The new one is WAY sexier. The G5 was a turd of a kludge. You think that big plastic tumor was sexy?

Squire
Aug 10, 2006, 07:10 PM
But these new machines just make the hole in Apple's product line that much more obvious. No headless machine between $799 and about $2199? No machine between yonah dual 1.6 and xeon quad 2.0? No machine with swappable video card for under two grand??? You'll be able to get a smoking dual core conroe PC for probably half that.

I just hope this isn't the last of the line (hopefully apple is just saying that to brag on the transition speed) and there's a cheap midrange tower running conroe on the way.

Well, with the downgraded specs (Quad 2.0 GHz and 160 GB hard drive) and educational discount, I believe it comes out to $1924. You're right-- there's still room for another machine between that and the top-end iMac but I think the gap price-wise is less than some realize.

-Squire

3CCD
Aug 10, 2006, 07:40 PM
I don't think a new computer will come out but I could be wrong. I was thinking, a redesigned iMac utilizing the construction and materials of the Mac Pro would be gorgeous. The only thing is that it would make it much heavier which I doubt they would do. I'm excited to see what is to become of the MacBook Pro.

andrewm
Aug 13, 2006, 08:30 PM
I do *not* like the G5's case design. It's bulky as heck and all those tiny holes bug me for some reason. It's also a very inconveniently-large size, IMO. Couldn't Apple have done some more shrinking when they created this new monster?

Although bravo to Apple for replacing the ageing PowerMac G5 with something new and faster.

Now that we've got a Mac Pro, what about a plain, old "Mac"? ;)