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MacRumors
Aug 9, 2006, 02:39 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

The presence of a Teams (http://trac.macosforge.org/projects/collaboration/wiki/Teams) project at Mac OS Forge (http://www.macrumors.com/c.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.macosforge.org%2F&t=1155152102) prompted a lot of speculation about what Apple's "Teams" could be.

An update describes Teams as "feature of Mac OS X Server, slated for Leopard (10.5). Among its features, it includes a web-based calendar client which works with the Calendar Server."

Apple's Eric Zelenka offers some additional details on the OS X Server mailing list:

Teams is a revolutionary new way for people to work together. Teams lets people share contacts, resources, information and communicate more effectively—as a team.

With Teams, groups receive their own website--an online Wiki Server-- listing the latest news, upcoming events and providing people access to online documents. This Wiki-powered website makes it easy for people within the group to create and edit web page content, hyperlink and crosslink between page and maintain history of all past changes. In addition, this group website provides web-based access to a shared group calendar, and a blog communication and podcasting.

But thats not all. Launching the new Teams Directory application gives you access to shared accounts for people, groups, locations and resources within your organization. You can use Teams Directory to find information, or define new shared contacts, assign people to groups and logically organize groups based on hierarchy. With Teams Directory you can define office locations complete with searchable building and location maps, as well as manage shared resources such as conference rooms and projectors.

Apple's Leopard Server Sneak Peak (http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/leopard/) pages provide some screenshots of the features described.

Frisco
Aug 9, 2006, 02:45 PM
Looks like Apple is finally paying some attention to the Enterprise market!

odedia
Aug 9, 2006, 03:07 PM
Looks like Apple is finally paying some attention to the Enterprise market!

Exactly! Hit Microsoft right where it hurts the most.

Lukasha
Aug 9, 2006, 03:21 PM
But does this mean we'll FINALLY have an Exchange killer that will connect not only to Mail/Address Book/iCal/Whatever in Leopard but Thunderbird/Entourage/Outlook/etc.? If Apple or a 3rd party can replicate the functionality of Exchange at a much cheaper price point and make it work seamlessly across all those clients, Microsoft will be dead.

Jeff

csubear
Aug 9, 2006, 03:21 PM
Looks like Apple is finally paying some attention to the Enterprise market!


Enterpriese, yes, but also home. A whole lot of those features I'd like to have at home ^.^

MacVault
Aug 9, 2006, 03:23 PM
Looks like Apple is finally paying some attention to the Enterprise market!

I hope so! It's about time! But to compete with MS Apple better put more effort into the design, integration and marketing of their Enterprise offerings. Apple hasn't seemed very interested in pushing a Directory Services product and if Teams is any good it will have to include more than calendering. How about a total Active Directory & Exchange killer product from Apple? I would love to see that!

~Shard~
Aug 9, 2006, 03:24 PM
Interesting development... Microsoft ain't gonna be happy... ;) :cool: Which of course is a good thing.

shelterpaw
Aug 9, 2006, 03:49 PM
I hope so! It's about time! But to compete with MS Apple better put more effort into the design, integration and marketing of their Enterprise offerings. Apple hasn't seemed very interested in pushing a Directory Services product and if Teams is any good it will have to include more than calendering. How about a total Active Directory & Exchange killer product from Apple? I would love to see that!
Well they're pushing OpenDirectory: http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/opendirectory.html

Seems to me they're trying to get all their ducks in a row before they push things hard. Some of the features sound awesome, hopefully they work as well as they sound.

IJ Reilly
Aug 9, 2006, 03:59 PM
Enterpriese, yes, but also home. A whole lot of those features I'd like to have at home ^.^

My thoughts exactly. I don't want to have to buy into OSX Server to get these features. I hope they include at least a limited-client version for us small office/home office folks.

Shintocam
Aug 9, 2006, 04:02 PM
Hmmm....a lot of the features sound sort of like Plone (http://plone.org) (http://plone.org) to me which would be nice if it were well integrated.

ickies
Aug 9, 2006, 04:08 PM
Can anyone make out what kind of phone that is in the podcasting screenshot? I don't recognize it. Is it something on the market or perhaps...something else?

http://images.apple.com/server/macosx/leopard/images/podcastproducertop20060807.png

MacsRgr8
Aug 9, 2006, 04:11 PM
Man.. an iCal server would be SO GREAT!!

For such reasons many use Kerio Mailserver with M$ Entourage client... (no way an Exchange Server should EVER be used... :D )

So, integrate iCal, Address Book, Mail into it all!

Can't wait for this. :cool:

mkrishnan
Aug 9, 2006, 04:11 PM
I never know how to feel about a feature like this. It's very innovative and I love the concept, but then it fills me with sadness that I will never get to use it unles it gets copied by Microsoft or... shudder ... Novell. God, Groupwise makes me pine for Exchange, it's such a piece of garbage. :(

Evangelion
Aug 9, 2006, 04:23 PM
Can anyone make out what kind of phone that is in the podcasting screenshot? I don't recognize it. Is it something on the market or perhaps...something else?

http://images.apple.com/server/macosx/leopard/images/podcastproducertop20060807.png

looks like Sony-Ericsson. If THAT is the rumoured Apple-phone, I would be SERIOUSLY disappointed. It would look like yet another generic cell-phone!

ickies
Aug 9, 2006, 04:29 PM
looks like Sony-Ericsson. If THAT is the rumoured Apple-phone, I would be SERIOUSLY disappointed. It would look like yet another generic cell-phone!

Yeah, it looks pretty butt to me, too.

the_ki
Aug 9, 2006, 04:30 PM
Shared resources? Team blogs and wikis? Document storage? Sounds to me like they're not only going after Exchange, they're going after SharePoint (http://www.microsoft.com/sharepoint/default.mspx). And if anyone here has ever tried to set up and use SharePoint, you know what a pain in the a$$ it is.

medazinol
Aug 9, 2006, 04:35 PM
But does this mean we'll FINALLY have an Exchange killer that will connect not only to Mail/Address Book/iCal/Whatever in Leopard but Thunderbird/Entourage/Outlook/etc.? If Apple or a 3rd party can replicate the functionality of Exchange at a much cheaper price point and make it work seamlessly across all those clients, Microsoft will be dead.

Jeff

This is the beginning of a collaboration system from Apple. To think that everyone will replace Exchange with this is just crazy. They have a lot invested in Exchange, it works (unless you're on a Mac and it a bit of a headache). I think it's a great thing they are finally realizing they need such a system but integrated like Exchange is not likely. MS has a HUGE head start on Apple in this area and Microsoft will not lose any of this market share to Apple.

bjdku
Aug 9, 2006, 04:41 PM
Shared resources? Team blogs and wikis? Document storage? Sounds to me like they're not only going after Exchange, they're going after SharePoint (http://www.microsoft.com/sharepoint/default.mspx). And if anyone here has ever tried to set up and use SharePoint, you know what a pain in the a$$ it is.


My thoughts exactly! This is gonna be sharepoint done right plus some! Leopard server just might be the OS version where I start to suggest to my clients as an alternative to Windows Small Business Server......

twoodcc
Aug 9, 2006, 05:03 PM
Interesting development... Microsoft ain't gonna be happy... ;) :cool: Which of course is a good thing.

that's right ....:p

MacVault
Aug 9, 2006, 05:12 PM
My concern though is will Apple really push it for the long run into the enterprise? I think Apple should take on Exchange, Active Directory, SharePoint, Outlook, etc for the business/enterprise market. So is Apple Teams gonna be a really good product but end up just fading into history on MacOSForge, as has been the case with their implementation of Open Dirctory????

ifjake
Aug 9, 2006, 05:19 PM
To me I think this stuff would be best implemented when starting from scratch, not upgrading from another system. This will only sell to companies looking to totally redo what they have. If they aren't, they won't. Smaller businesses also seem more likely. I also hope some of this stuff works with the regular version of Leopard, else that "Whole Package" talk just turns into a whole lotta crap. Families and households shouldn't have to buy a server to get their computers to work this way.

MacNemesis
Aug 9, 2006, 05:21 PM
The project itself is not open source as may be implied by the article. Or at least it's not listed. Given what it does, I don't see Teams being open sourced. The CalDAV server, however is. Or am I missing something?

That being said, it's an amazing integration of existing technologies and probably the best use of AJAX outside of Google.

MacG
Aug 9, 2006, 06:29 PM
Damn one more reason why its frustrating that my corp IT department refuses to support macs at the office. Wintel only. And my Mac usage is reserved for home/personal. :mad:

I'd love to have that at the office. We've recently begun using Wiki's at the office as a way for software engineering teams to collaborate - they're very effective. I'd love to see Apple's spin on this concept. :)

iMeowbot
Aug 9, 2006, 06:51 PM
My thoughts exactly. I don't want to have to buy into OSX Server to get these features. I hope they include at least a limited-client version for us small office/home office folks.
Since both Teams and Calendar Server are out there under Apple's festering heap of Open Sores, it will be available in some form. At worst, people in the cheap seats will have to edit a few configuration files to get it set up.

I'd love to have that at the office. We've recently begun using Wiki's at the office as a way for software engineering teams to collaborate - they're very effective. I'd love to see Apple's spin on this concept. :)
The Apple spin on the wiki is a wiki (http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/leopard/wikiserver.html) :) It's not yet really clear if this will have any integration with the iCal Server, or if the Teams thing is a separate project.

MattInOz
Aug 9, 2006, 07:02 PM
Seems to me Leopard server is really shaping up to be what some of us Mac token "Admins" have been asking for (and my friendly mac sales man tells me i'm not the only one) ...

It's our own little .Mac server in a box.
It's shaping up to be a very nice upgrade, it seems to have everything built in that I was hoping to getting around to setting up some time, between the real fee paying work.

dernhelm
Aug 9, 2006, 07:27 PM
I never know how to feel about a feature like this. It's very innovative and I love the concept, but then it fills me with sadness that I will never get to use it unles it gets copied by Microsoft or... shudder ... Novell. God, Groupwise makes me pine for Exchange, it's such a piece of garbage. :(

As I was reading, I kept expecting a Lotus Notes reference. And you come dropping the "G" bomb. And here I was thinking I was the only person around that was victimized by Groupwise...

dernhelm
Aug 9, 2006, 07:29 PM
Seems to me Leopard server is really shaping up to be what some of us Mac token "Admins" have been asking for (and my friendly mac sales man tells me i'm not the only one) ...

It's our own little .Mac server in a box.
It's shaping up to be a very nice upgrade, it seems to have everything built in that I was hoping to getting around to setting up some time, between the real fee paying work.

Agreed! For the first time, the OS/X server "fee" actually may seem to be worth the price.

The same features in Linux will not be anywhere near as nice.

evil0ne
Aug 9, 2006, 09:51 PM
Shared resources? Team blogs and wikis? Document storage? Sounds to me like they're not only going after Exchange, they're going after SharePoint (http://www.microsoft.com/sharepoint/default.mspx). And if anyone here has ever tried to set up and use SharePoint, you know what a pain in the a$$ it is.


+1. That was the first thing I thought of. I used that POS once and would never recommend it to anyone, I asked why they didn't just use Wiki.

h00ligan
Aug 9, 2006, 10:09 PM
ooo.. taking a stab at MS portal server.... LONG way to go though to be a real competitor.

Sharepoint is not a pain in the ass to use.. it is somewhat difficult to configure correctly though.

ssteve
Aug 9, 2006, 11:46 PM
Shared resources? Team blogs and wikis? Document storage? Sounds to me like they're not only going after Exchange, they're going after SharePoint (http://www.microsoft.com/sharepoint/default.mspx). And if anyone here has ever tried to set up and use SharePoint, you know what a pain in the a$$ it is.

It sounds like a SharePoint thing to me. I think it will be great if Apple puts their version out. I don't think SharePoint is that hard to set up, but if Apple puts an Apple version of it out, just remember it will be very easy to set up.

ssteve
Aug 9, 2006, 11:52 PM
ooo.. taking a stab at MS portal server.... LONG way to go though to be a real competitor.

Sharepoint is not a pain in the ass to use.. it is somewhat difficult to configure correctly though.

I agree with you on the part of it not being a pain to use. I am fair that I will give Microsoft their due when they earn it. DO NOT be hard on Microsoft on their SharePoint. That piece of software is really cool for both big and small business. Even Microsoft gets things right every once in awhile.

SPUY767
Aug 10, 2006, 06:10 AM
But does this mean we'll FINALLY have an Exchange killer that will connect not only to Mail/Address Book/iCal/Whatever in Leopard but Thunderbird/Entourage/Outlook/etc.? If Apple or a 3rd party can replicate the functionality of Exchange at a much cheaper price point and make it work seamlessly across all those clients, Microsoft will be dead.

Jeff


Well, if anyone can orchestrate a paradigm shift, it's Apple.

mkrishnan
Aug 10, 2006, 06:41 AM
As I was reading, I kept expecting a Lotus Notes reference.

I think I just threw up a little in my mouth™. :o

erikh
Aug 10, 2006, 07:09 AM
Can anyone make out what kind of phone that is in the podcasting screenshot? I don't recognize it. Is it something on the market or perhaps...something else?


That is the Sony Ericsson K600i, their first small-size 3G (UMTS) phone, from as long back as one year ago. :-)

I don't know if it ever gained any popularity, at least not in the US...?

Let's get back on topic: Apple Teams, along with iCal server, wiki server and (I hope) even more collaboration functionality packed into the OS X Server, and with out-of-the-box support for both Apple-branded clients and 3rd party clients (at least Outlook and the Mozilla Suite), makes me want to postpone our small business' server upgrade for, like, half a year...

Lollypop
Aug 10, 2006, 07:35 AM
It sounds like a SharePoint thing to me. I think it will be great if Apple puts their version out. I don't think SharePoint is that hard to set up, but if Apple puts an Apple version of it out, just remember it will be very easy to set up.

Never installed sharepoint but I really think apple should make Teams available for the home, a lot of people use something at home and then want it at work. Apple could create a cost effective Exchange/Sharepoint competitor and compete with Microsoft by going home to busines or by having a viable easy to use competitor for the small business, a lot of small business would pay for a feature that could let htem compete with their bigger competitors and apple needs to take adavantage of that.

mkrishnan
Aug 10, 2006, 07:49 AM
Never installed sharepoint but I really think apple should make Teams available for the home, a lot of people use something at home and then want it at work.

It would be interesting to see some of these features combine with the existing Ad Hoc capabilities in OS X to allow for these kinds of functions in the absence of a server. I totally agree....

Lollypop
Aug 10, 2006, 08:08 AM
It would be interesting to see some of these features combine with the existing Ad Hoc capabilities in OS X to allow for these kinds of functions in the absence of a server. I totally agree....


you mean like with Bonjour... that could be very cool! Maybe apple could place a limit in the amount of "clients" if bonjour is used, that way a small company or SOHO could use the cool features for free and once they scale and have the money they can invest in a decent server.

nash
Aug 10, 2006, 08:48 AM
Notice, Apple left the "i" out of Teams. :)

mkrishnan
Aug 10, 2006, 08:55 AM
Notice, Apple left the "i" out of Teams. :)

Sounds like a motivational poster. :D

iriejedi
Aug 10, 2006, 09:45 AM
Interesting development... Microsoft ain't gonna be happy... ;) :cool: Which of course is a good thing.


I do not know if this has been mentioned (didn't see it while skimming this thread) but maybe this could be a Mac version of MS PRoject - an incredibly powerful project team managament tool. I can only imagine how awesome an Apple version would be since so far they do everything better on the first try.

Irie:p

mdntcallr
Aug 10, 2006, 10:30 AM
sounds great. more enterprise capability, terrific.

now if only apple could setup an exchange type service which would allow your emails to push to your phone/pda, update contact databade, and changes to your calendar and immediately sync/coordinate with your mac at office/home.

jbass
Aug 10, 2006, 10:32 AM
Everything they seem to be doing sounds like it might mimic some of Zimbra's (http://zimbra.com/) efforts. Check out their AJAX collaboration suite at http://zimbra.com/products/hosted_demo.php. Apple is listed as one of the corporate partners.

lillianad
Aug 10, 2006, 10:51 AM
Let's get back on topic: Apple Teams, along with iCal server, wiki server and (I hope) even more collaboration functionality packed into the OS X Server, and with out-of-the-box support for both Apple-branded clients and 3rd party clients (at least Outlook and the Mozilla Suite), makes me want to postpone our small business' server upgrade for, like, half a year...

Me too. I'm currently the only Mac use on a network based on Linux. I made the Windows boxess dual boot with Linux but the server is 100% Linux.

When Leopard is released and stabilises somewhat, I'm moving the entire system to Mac - including the server! Can't wait for that level of collaboration - much more that I'd hoped for. Good think it's a small company which I own so what I say goes :D

Now to look for the money...

Sabon
Aug 10, 2006, 11:17 AM
I've used GroupWise for years. I've also had to use Outlook too. Outlook has some good things but I'll stick with GroupWise with the account that has that. As for Outlook/Exchange, I'll keep using 3rd party pop clients instead of Outlook. The less I use MS products the happier I've been. And I've been supporting their "stuff" since 1983.

iGuy
Aug 10, 2006, 12:28 PM
Shared resources? Team blogs and wikis? Document storage? Sounds to me like they're not only going after Exchange, they're going after SharePoint (http://www.microsoft.com/sharepoint/default.mspx). And if anyone here has ever tried to set up and use SharePoint, you know what a pain in the a$$ it is.

To be honest, I never found Sharepoint very useful. It seemed to be just a portal to a volume (folder in macspeak) of documents. You could just as easily surf your way to the folder. I'm sure you could do more with it, but like any technology, it's how you set it up and use it that makes it useful. No one really seemed to know what to do with it.

I remember thinking that unless the documents it pointed to were both organized and structured (yes, in an XML/SGML sort of way), it really wasn't helpful. People just dumped stuff in a central place but without an understanding of why they were putting it there and what value it provided. It became a dumping ground for a lot of junk.

Collaboration tools sound wonderful but the reality is that most are implemented badly. They work best when some structure is applied but that very structure can limit creativity. I'm not aware of any one group that uses these tools well.

Just my thoughts.
~iGuy

Sabon
Aug 10, 2006, 12:57 PM
To be honest, I never found Sharepoint very useful. It seemed to be just a portal to a volume (folder in macspeak) of documents. You could just as easily surf your way to the folder. I'm sure you could do more with it, but like any technology, it's how you set it up and use it that makes it useful. No one really seemed to know what to do with it.

I remember thinking that unless the documents it pointed to were both organized and structured (yes, in an XML/SGML sort of way), it really wasn't helpful. People just dumped stuff in a central place but without an understanding of why they were putting it there and what value it provided. It became a dumping ground for a lot of junk.

Collaboration tools sound wonderful but the reality is that most are implemented badly. They work best when some structure is applied but that very structure can limit creativity. I'm not aware of any one group that uses these tools well.

Just my thoughts.
~iGuy

I agree. It just puts a web interface on a ugly folder view. I believe SharePoint's main purpose is to mess up Linux and other OSs trying to get NTFS read/write working on their OS. Basically moving the field again.

LagunaSol
Aug 10, 2006, 01:35 PM
"And if anyone here has ever tried to set up and use SharePoint, you know what a pain in the a$$ it is."

I agree. I use SharePoint at work all the time. I was excited about the concept, but the implementation is horrible. Apple could outdo SharePoint without even trying.

Project
Aug 10, 2006, 01:52 PM
So true. As a new starter at Microsoft i'm having to learn it intimately given the widespread use of it at the company. Its just horrible. Great idea, but the implementation and the UI is just awful. Seriously. None of the less technical people here can use it properly, and therein lies a failure at what it was set out to do.

mdriftmeyer
Aug 10, 2006, 03:18 PM
The project itself is not open source as may be implied by the article. Or at least it's not listed. Given what it does, I don't see Teams being open sourced. The CalDAV server, however is. Or am I missing something?

That being said, it's an amazing integration of existing technologies and probably the best use of AJAX outside of Google.

http://trac.macosforge.org/projects/collaboration/wiki

morespce54
Aug 10, 2006, 04:06 PM
As I was reading, I kept expecting a Lotus Notes reference. And you come dropping the "G" bomb. And here I was thinking I was the only person around that was victimized by Groupwise...

Nope. That makes at least 3 of us... :( ;)

mkrishnan
Aug 10, 2006, 04:29 PM
Nope. That makes at least 3 of us... :( ;)

Maybe someday Google Calendar will just take over and we'll all be using plugins. :o

playaj82
Aug 10, 2006, 06:29 PM
Maybe someday Google Calendar will just take over and we'll all be using plugins. :o

I'm not looking forward to that

ezekielrage_99
Aug 10, 2006, 08:35 PM
I worked as a Systems Developer for some schools and a New Media Lecturer at a university a few years ago, this new Leopard Server will definantly been high on the want list of heaps of schools and university.

Let's face it schools and univeristies love to use Apple and they love having fast commication via the web and intranets I can see both of these institutions want it and really using it.

louden
Aug 11, 2006, 12:40 AM
"And if anyone here has ever tried to set up and use SharePoint, you know what a pain in the a$$ it is."

I agree. I use SharePoint at work all the time. I was excited about the concept, but the implementation is horrible. Apple could outdo SharePoint without even trying.

Sharepoint does take a bit to configure, but you need security and you need that type of control when setting up a portal. To use - I think it's already pretty easy, and it's getting updated in Office 12. Any portal solution Apple comes up with will need to grow several versions before it comes anywhere near the features. Don't get your hopes up too high.

If Microsoft was smart they'd hire the same actors who do the Mac commercials and show the actors working in a business setting. They could even start it with the end of the pie chart vacation commercial (which is hilarious):

The fat guy (MS): I need to share this presentation with a co-worker in Australia. And I need to share this other with a team in Prague.

The skinny guy (Apple): Well... Hey! I can share songs with both of them! but a presentation? Hmm.. Can I just post it to my .mac site?

The fat guy (MS): Well, little fella, I think that might allow our competitors to see our trade secrets.

The skinny guy (Apple): Oh, you need it secured...

The fat guy (MS): Not only that, but I want to keep prior versions on the portal, track comments, and allow specific users specific access...

The skinny guy (Apple): Well, I think I have pictures from a Prague trip in iPhoto here. Let me just look for them...

The fat guy (MS): Sure thing, sonny. While you're at it, you might want to surf the web and post to forums out there.


I love Apple and I can't wait to update my PowerBook to a Merom, but in the Enterprise space - portals, mail, database, development platforms - MS rules. In the Internet space - public anything - Google rules.

groovebuster
Aug 11, 2006, 03:07 AM
Teams is a revolutionary new way for people to work together.
How I hate this marketing blah blah blah... :rolleyes:

Collaboration Software is as old as networked computing. There are some really good solutions out there since years!

To call Teams 'revolutionary' or even 'innovative' is a big joke and just embarassing.

But at least Apple finally got that there is a need for such functionality.

Cupertino, start your photocopiers!!! ;)

groovebuster

the_ki
Aug 11, 2006, 07:27 AM
It sounds like a SharePoint thing to me. I think it will be great if Apple puts their version out. I don't think SharePoint is that hard to set up, but if Apple puts an Apple version of it out, just remember it will be very easy to set up.

Well, I'm a graphic designer, and I was charged with redesigning the SharePoint portal at my office. After several days of trying to decipher the code and make styles that would work on everyone's PCs and the six Macs in the office, I finally told them they'd have to hire a specialist. Perhaps on the server side SharePoint is a cinch, but it gave me great pains.

Given the obfuscated markup that iWeb writes, I'll withhold my judgement on designing for Apple Teams until I see it.