Slow SATA performance on Mac Pro in XP/Bootcamp

[tobyg]

Anyone with a Mac Pro and XP installed native (bootcamp, or in my case, to a second drive) have very slow disk access in XP? It takes quite a while to boot up and seems pretty slow overall.

I did install the following chipset drivers.
http://support.intel.com/support/chipsets/inf/sb/CS-009270.htm
Note: When you go download the actual chipset files, it doesn't mention the 5000x chipset as it does on the main page, but when I installed it, it did install quite a few new drivers. It updated a lot of things, including SATA related drivers.

Without instaling the chipset drivers I couldn't get the nVidia video card to do anything more than 640x480.

I tried testing disk speed in SiSoft Sandra but I gave up, it was taking way too long. I installed 3dMark2006 and it took a long time to install, and its taking a long time inbetween tests. Much longer than my Athlon 64 3400+.

[JNaut]

Anyone with a Mac Pro and XP installed native (bootcamp, or in my case, to a second drive) have very slow disk access in XP? It takes quite a while to boot up and seems pretty slow overall.

Yep, disk access is very slow for me too. I haven't run any formal tests, but it just *feels* slow. Copying a 4GB file was going to take 20 minutes... ouch.

[kevin.rivers]

Maybe you will need the Apple drivers.

[tobyg]

Maybe you will need the Apple drivers.

Yes thank you, of course... but they aren't available yet.

And also, I did find this:

http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df-external/Detail_Desc.aspx?agr=N&ProductID=2308&DwnldID=10928&strOSs=All&OSFullName=All%20Operating%20Systems&lang=eng


Those seem to be newer and chipset drivers for the 5000 chipset. However, it still didn't help with the SATA speed. I am going to try a PATA HD and see if the speeds increase.

[CyberDoberman]

Yes thank you, of course... but they aren't available yet.

And also, I did find this:

http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df-external/Detail_Desc.aspx?agr=N&ProductID=2308&DwnldID=10928&strOSs=All&OSFullName=All%20Operating%20Systems&lang=eng


Those seem to be newer and chipset drivers for the 5000 chipset. However, it still didn't help with the SATA speed. I am going to try a PATA HD and see if the speeds increase.


Nope. I think it's a severe driver issue...

I'm getting the same thing. Anything accessing the disk is slooooooooooooow... but the same thing in cache is fast.

For instance... boot... then launch IE7... FORFREAKINGEVER...

Close IE7, open it again... *BAM* fast.

I did a DVDSHRINK rip of a dvd...

On the Mac Pro I'm getting 3400/k a second ripping FROM THE HARD DISK!

OUCH!

For comparison, with the right drivers, my Macbook Pro in BootCamp rips the same DVD off the Hard Disk at over 45000/k a second.

Over a 10X increase on the LAPTOP :)

It's all in the drivers, I'm sure.

Probably not ready yet, which is also probably why they don't have a new BootCamp release.

:(

[tobyg]

I ghosted my XP SATA drive to a PATA drive (ghosted using a different PC, not on the mac pro... haven't figured out how to boot off of a dos based usb flash drive on the mac) and plugged it in. Worked fine, booted right up. Speeds are much faster than running on the SATA channel. So this is fine for now, but of course in the future I will ghost my drive back to a SATA drive and use that, when real drivers are out.

So if anyone NEEDS to run native Windows on a Mac Pro right now, I recommend a PATA drive. Looks like i'll be just putting this in where the 2nd optical drive is supposed to go.

[tobyg]

I will tell you this... it's related to the SATA drives transfer mode being in PIO instead of UDMA. If you go into device manager and take a look at the properties of your "Primary IDE" channels, click on "Advanced Settings", you'll see the "Current Transfer Mode" will say PIO for your SATA HD's.

To me it looks like a driver issue, but also a problem with the EFI/bios hooks detecting the proper transfer modes of the HD.

It gets even more interesting if you try to use the PATA channel. My PATA HD will show up as UDMA mode 5 if I hook it up as a Master on the PATA channel. If I hook it up as a slave with the DVD drive on Master, the DVD drive shows up as UDMA 5 and the HD as UDMA 0. If I hook up the HD as a master and the DVD drive as slave, my HD shows up as UDMA 5 and the DVD drive is UDMA 2. However, when the DVD drive is on slave, I can't eject properly from OSX. F12 and also the eject menu option don't do anything (even tried option-eject, doesn't do anything). The only way to eject the DVD drive in OSX, that i've found, is from a shell by typing 'drutil eject'.

So, fun stuff.

SO, for now, i'm running with my PATA HD as a master, dvd drive as slave, and sata drive. PATA drive has XP, SATA has OSX. And that means from OSX I have to go to a shell to eject the dvd.

I have a feeling that the 'fix' will probably come via new bootcamp/drivers... and possibly a new firmware. I believe the system isn't detecting the proper transfer rate from the HD, and that could only be fixed in firmware/bios.

[JNaut]

Thanks for the update. I don't have access to a PC right now so I don't really have a way to clone my SATA drive to IDE. However, if this is really an issue that only new Apple drivers can fix, I may just go ahead and reinstall Windows from scratch on the IDE drive.

[faketom]

So if anyone NEEDS to run native Windows on a Mac Pro right now, I recommend a PATA drive. Looks like i'll be just putting this in where the 2nd optical drive is supposed to go.

Okay, I just took apart this POS external drive I bought from ebay and the drive inside is a Maxtor Diamondmax 10 250GB PATA133
Model #: 6L250R0

So can I hook it directly to the ribbon in the optical drive bay of my new Mac Pro or do I need adaptors and that sort of thing?
It is currently formatted for Mac as I used it with my powerbook. Will I be able to access it as a drive in OSX?

[tobyg]

Okay, I just took apart this POS external drive I bought from ebay and the drive inside is a Maxtor Diamondmax 10 250GB PATA133
Model #: 6L250R0

So can I hook it directly to the ribbon in the optical drive bay of my new Mac Pro or do I need adaptors and that sort of thing?
It is currently formatted for Mac as I used it with my powerbook. Will I be able to access it as a drive in OSX?

Yes but make sure you set the jumpers right. And you may still not get great performance from that drive.

You should be able to read the data off of the drive.

If it's external, why not keep it external?

You wouldn't need an adapter to hook it up, but you would need an adapter to mount it. And be careful with the adapter you get to mount it. The adapter needs to make sure the back of the drive lines up flush with the back of the DVD drive, and even then the cable connecting between the dvd drive and hard drive will be tight. The cable is very short and the connector on the HD when mounted will be quite a bit offset (from side to side) and not in line with the connector on the dvd drive. That's why it's also critical to make sure the backs of the hd and dvd drive line up as flush as possible, because you're already going to be fighting the fact that the connectors on the drives won't lign up. For instance, the HD connector will basically be centered and the DVD drive will be skewed to one side. The cable they provide assumes you'd be putting two optical drives in there. If that were the case, you'd have plenty of play in the cable. With a HD in there, my cable is pretty tight. Not tight where it's pulling away from anything, but its a tight fit.

Good luck! Oh and the only way I could make it fit properly, even with everything I said about aligning the drive, is to put the HD on top and the dvd drive on bottom. Same reason, the HD ends up being too far to the side and the cable just doesn't have enough length.

Sorry, I definitely didn't explain this very well.... but maybe someone else can rephrase what I've said in a way that makes more sense.

[Mr. Mister]

So when do we get performance SATA, huh?

[tobyg]

So when do we get performance SATA, huh?

When Apple decides to fix the problem, either with drivers, a firmware update, or both.

[faketom]

If it's external, why not keep it external?

As I mentioned the external case is really crappy. It is USB 2.0 (I used to be an idiot) and when transferring data there is always a loud click and i get the multicolored wheel of death and have to diconnect the drive without ejecting it.

I am hoping this is just the hardware built around the drive in the case and not the drive itelf.

Thanks a lot for the info though, any ideas on what type of mounting hardware to get and where it can be found?

[macenforcer]

As I mentioned the external case is really crappy. It is USB 2.0 (I used to be an idiot) and when transferring data there is always a loud click and i get the multicolored wheel of death and have to diconnect the drive without ejecting it.

I am hoping this is just the hardware built around the drive in the case and not the drive itelf.

Thanks a lot for the info though, any ideas on what type of mounting hardware to get and where it can be found?


There are a multitude of usb 2.0 cases that are NOT mac compatible. Yeah, believe it. I went round and round with a company over the 3 cases I purchased. The same thing happened, beach ball, no eject. Its your case, the HD is fine.

[egeis]

well, ive got the same problem with the speed of my SATA drive. Cant believe I was getting 28-35 FPS in Quenos Harbor on EQ2. Second I pressed forward to move it went down to 1 fps as my HD was being accessed. Load times are pretty bad to.

Ive found several responses to generic posts about slow SATA drives. Install the drivers with you Motherboard CD, Download drivers, and even installing a SATA controller board**.

**Not a solution for a Mac Pro.

Going to keep looking for SATA drivers right after i figure out what make the HD drive is. If not there is always the next Boot Camp Update.

(oh: I call the wheel of death, the spinning Beach Ball of Death)

[tobyg]

I'm getting pretty frustrated at the SATA speed. I'm worried about trusting that apple will fix this problem. My intention is to use the Mac Pro as my only PC, for Windows and OSX. If I can't use it for Windows, if they don't fix this problem, I can't use it this way.

Last night I reinstalled OSX from the 'superdrive' being a slave on the PATA channel. If anyone saw my other messages, the superdrive being a slave on the PATA channel drops it down to UDMA2.. UDMA2 is still quite slow, it took forever to reinstall OSX. This is not a good option. The HD has to be 'master' for it to get the full speed, so the superdrive being slave is the only option.

We need the SATA speeds fixed, ASAP.

I've tried all the drivers I could find so far. Even went to tyan and supermicro and tried installing drivers they have posted for their workstation boards, but none of them helped. I followed many articles I found on the 'net regarding trying to fix DMA/enable DMA under Windows. No matter what I do, the SATA drives remain in PIO mode. Quite frustrating. It is the ONLY obsticle I have left in making this my main do-everything machine.

[Sun Baked]

The 4 SATA drives may be non-standard since it is using backplane for the carriers.

Have you tried using one of the 2 regular SATA ports (#5 & 6) for Windows.

[tobyg]

Haven't tried them yet, but they are going to be the same from what I can see in how Windows is detecting everything. I'll probably try it, but I'm not holding my breath.

I also need to try reinstalling OSX with the optical back on the master. If OSX installs fast, then I know the optical was probably at UDMA2 when set to slave even in OSX, which is bad. That tells me it is probably a firmware update we're looking at to fix this problem. But I'm worried apple will just say "Screw Windows, use Parallels if you want Windows". That's not an option for gaming, of course. Not only that, but Parallels only communicates with 1 CPU.

[Sun Baked]

Haven't tried them yet, but they are going to be the same from what I can see in how Windows is detecting everything. I'll probably try it, but I'm not holding my breath.

I also need to try reinstalling OSX with the optical back on the master. If OSX installs fast, then I know the optical was probably at UDMA2 when set to slave even in OSX, which is bad. That tells me it is probably a firmware update we're looking at to fix this problem. But I'm worried apple will just say "Screw Windows, use Parallels if you want Windows". That's not an option for gaming, of course. Not only that, but Parallels only communicates with 1 CPU.Probably is something in how Apple set up the machines, they tend to do stuff "different" from standard -- even when using standard PC parts.

Should be interesting to see if the PCIe slot manager causes problems for those that decide to change to one of the alternate settings.

Edit: something is up this the SATA bus, since the Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 drives have problems -- even in OS X, according to barefeats.

[omfgninja]

Hey everyone.
I too am hoping the driver thing gets fixed ASAP (since my Mac Pro will be here soon, and I wanna do some gaming danmit!)

But I thought of a possible temporary solution.

How about putting in a PCIe SATA card, and then trying to install Windows onto a drive hooked up through that?
That way you can use drivers for that card, rather than waiting for apple...

I know that buying hardware isnt aways a good option, but I figure... If you really need it now, you might wanna buy it... hang onto it, and maybe.. .*cough*returnit*cough* when the drivers come out....

:D

[tobyg]

Hey everyone.
I too am hoping the driver thing gets fixed ASAP (since my Mac Pro will be here soon, and I wanna do some gaming danmit!)

But I thought of a possible temporary solution.

How about putting in a PCIe SATA card, and then trying to install Windows onto a drive hooked up through that?
That way you can use drivers for that card, rather than waiting for apple...

I know that buying hardware isnt aways a good option, but I figure... If you really need it now, you might wanna buy it... hang onto it, and maybe.. .*cough*returnit*cough* when the drivers come out....

:D

I've thought of it too, but i'm pretty sure the Mac Boot Loader (hold down option) won't see a PCIe sata controller. EFI wouldn't know what it is or how to boot from it. I may still try it, but I'm fairly sure it wouldn't work. Even if you could load the driver into XP and install to it after booting from your XP CD, I'm pretty sure EFI wouldn't see it and booting from holding down option wouldn't see it.

[tobyg]

Probably is something in how Apple set up the machines, they tend to do stuff "different" from standard -- even when using standard PC parts.

Should be interesting to see if the PCIe slot manager causes problems for those that decide to change to one of the alternate settings.

I've changed my PCIe config via the utility in OSX... everything still works just the same in Windows.

[tobyg]

Two things...

1. Moved my SATA drive to one of the motherboard sata ports (not easy to get to either, mind you...) and when I hold down option it can see the HD and I can attempt to boot from it, but it won't boot. Very strange. Put it back on one of the other 4 SATA channels, boots up fine.

2. I went out and bought a SIIG eSATA II PCIe i/e card. Hold down option, won't see the HD at all. Put my Windows XP CD in, hold down option and select that. I DO see the SIIG bios actually show up... don't see any sign of the HD or anything but I'm not sure it is supposed to show them. Anyway, I've given up at this point. If I can't select the HD from holding down option, whats the point?

Still playing with things... got some other ideas. I probably should just give up and wait for Apple to fix it... but I'm too damn impatient.

[tobyg]

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=601539&tstart=0

[aiongiant]

hopefully the new bootcamp fixes this hehe

[Mr. Mister]

Hope it does too.

[tobyg]

Fresh install of XP, installed Bootcamp 1.1 drivers, still PIO mode.

[JNaut]

Fresh install of XP, installed Bootcamp 1.1 drivers, still PIO mode.

Man, that sucks... I was hoping it was the fix we were waiting for. :(

[Sun Baked]

If it isn't something simple, might be a firmware update or an EFI hack to undo what Apple did to the SATA bus.

Hopefully Apple takes care of this, since this is a dandy machine to grab switchers.

[CyberDoberman]

If it isn't something simple, might be a firmware update or an EFI hack to undo what Apple did to the SATA bus.

Hopefully Apple takes care of this, since this is a dandy machine to grab switchers.

Fubared x 2. Doesn't work for me either. Fresh XP Install... BootCamp 1.1 Drivers.... PIO Mode.

ARGH!

[tobyg]

If it isn't something simple, might be a firmware update or an EFI hack to undo what Apple did to the SATA bus.

Hopefully Apple takes care of this, since this is a dandy machine to grab switchers.

Yep, that's what I've said for a while now. I'm just trying to be optimistic and hope that drivers will fix this... but its unlikely.

[egeis]

Just installed the latest drivers from apple. It removed my Nvidia drivers and replaced them with the generic drivers.... Good thing i kept the nvidia driver install handy.

Still slow on the SATA, i hope they fix the problem soon before i regret buying a mac pro instead of a macbook since my powerbook is almost 2yrs old.

-- Edit --
Think my problems been solved, getting the desired framerate at high quality settings with no lag, im happy now :)
with the drivers from the last update.

[Origin]

Fresh install of XP, installed Bootcamp 1.1 drivers, still PIO mode.

It's impossible to "force" DMA mode, like with an equivalent off "hdparm" under Linux ???? may be with the device manger ?

[orbitalpunk]

Just installed the latest drivers from apple. It removed my Nvidia drivers and replaced them with the generic drivers.... Good thing i kept the nvidia driver install handy.

Still slow on the SATA, i hope they fix the problem soon before i regret buying a mac pro instead of a macbook since my powerbook is almost 2yrs old.

-- Edit --
Think my problems been solved, getting the desired framerate at high quality settings with no lag, im happy now :)
with the drivers from the last update.


is your hard drvies still in PIO mode tho?

[Mr. Mister]

what the hell is pio mode

[cjkihlbom]

what the hell is pio mode
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmed_input/output

[CyberPrey]

Quick and easy translation is that if if your hard drives are in PIO mode, they are operating WAY WAY WAY below their true capacity.

*edit* You can view the hard drive operating mode in the device manager, and their are several utilities out there for windows machines that can examine the hardware and give you the specs on what it is capable of, and what it is currently set to.

[patseguin]

Well, my hard drive seems plenty fast. I did go into device manager and saw several controllers listed and looked at them all. 2 of them were listed as PIO mode and 1 was listed as Ultra DMA Mode 4. I have 2 hard drives and the Super Drive in my Mac Pro. Could it be that my hard drives are in PIO mode and the Super Drive is in DMA?

[tobyg]

Well, my hard drive seems plenty fast. I did go into device manager and saw several controllers listed and looked at them all. 2 of them were listed as PIO mode and 1 was listed as Ultra DMA Mode 4. I have 2 hard drives and the Super Drive in my Mac Pro. Could it be that my hard drives are in PIO mode and the Super Drive is in DMA?

Yes, exactly. Anything on the SATA chain right now is only being seen/used in PIO mode.

[CyberPrey]

Same with how it is on mine as well..

HD's are in PIO, but the Superdrive is in DMA.

although... the new drivers SEEM to have speeded up my system just a bit...

[egeis]

although... the new drivers SEEM to have speeded up my system just a bit...

They have done that, urg my HD is still in PIO mode also, guess i was wrong. How do you tell what mode its in. Ive found where to see if its using DMA or PIO but not the mode number.

-- Edit --

Anyone try installing XP on a second internal SATA drive since the latest patch of Bootcamp?

[JNaut]

They have done that, urg my HD is still in PIO mode also, guess i was wrong. How do you tell what mode its in. Ive found where to see if its using DMA or PIO but not the mode number.

-- Edit --

Anyone try installing XP on a second internal SATA drive since the latest patch of Bootcamp?

It's just as slow for me, but I might need to reinstall Windows anyways. The sound is still playing through the internal speakers for me too.

[Mr. Mister]

Man, that sucks, I hope Apple doesn't say "it's a Mac lol we don't care how Windows runs" about this.

[eric2006]

Here is a method to set (without reboot) ultra DMA-6 data transfers with the internal SATA drive on a Mac Pro base config (no upgrde or options) with windows xp. Unfortunately this state is lost after reboot.

1) boot windows with HDD data transfer in PIO mode :mad:


2) launch regedit and open the following entry :(

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Class\{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\0002]

2) check the presence of the following values :o

"MatchingDeviceId"="primary_ide_channel"
"DriverDesc"="Primary IDE Channel"
"MasterDeviceType"=dword:00000001
"MasterDeviceTimingModeAllowed"=dword:ffffffff
"UserMasterDeviceTimingModeAllowed"=dword:ffffffff

3) Modify :confused:

"MasterDeviceTimingMode"=dword:00000010

to

"MasterDeviceTimingMode"=dword:ffffffff

this tels XP to select the best possible transfer mode: ie. ultra DMA-6. without reboot. ;)

Editing such values is known to be risky, might fail on your machine and require reinstallation of XP. :eek:

But it worked on my system. :D

A more persistent solution would be welcomed.:)

[Daspeed]

It should be possible to make a script of that and making sure that it will be executed everytime windows starts bij placing an entry in:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run

However I'm not sure about when it gets executed, so booting may still be slow.

BTW: how did yo get the registry-entry for the harddrive?

[JNaut]

Very good find, thanks for posting! I am at work now so I can't see if it works on my machine. Anyone else try it?

[Deerhunter04]

Awesome find! I'll definitely try this when i get home.

[aiongiant]

awesome! great find!

[tobyg]

Here is a method to set (without reboot) ultra DMA-6 data transfers with the internal SATA drive on a Mac Pro base config (no upgrde or options) with windows xp. Unfortunately this state is lost after reboot.

1) boot windows with HDD data transfer in PIO mode :mad:


2) launch regedit and open the following entry :(

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Class\{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\0002]

2) check the presence of the following values :o

"MatchingDeviceId"="primary_ide_channel"
"DriverDesc"="Primary IDE Channel"
"MasterDeviceType"=dword:00000001
"MasterDeviceTimingModeAllowed"=dword:ffffffff
"UserMasterDeviceTimingModeAllowed"=dword:ffffffff

3) Modify :confused:

"MasterDeviceTimingMode"=dword:00000010

to

"MasterDeviceTimingMode"=dword:ffffffff

this tels XP to select the best possible transfer mode: ie. ultra DMA-6. without reboot. ;)

Editing such values is known to be risky, might fail on your machine and require reinstallation of XP. :eek:

But it worked on my system. :D

A more persistent solution would be welcomed.:)

I tried many things like this but always rebooted before testing. Are you saying the values actually take effect immediately, without a reboot? Have you run a program like hdtune http://www.hdtune.com to verify speeds are increased? I'm at work, so I can't try it right now.

[MacProGuy]

I tried many things like this but always rebooted before testing. Are you saying the values actually take effect immediately, without a reboot? Have you run a program like hdtune http://www.hdtune.com to verify speeds are increased? I'm at work, so I can't try it right now.


I'll have to try this... but yes, generally Registry (some) edits take effect immediately.

For instance, enabling "CoolBits" from nVidia in the Registry gives access to the overclocking menu in the stock nVidia software without a reboot, so I'm fairly confident this would work the same way.

The question is, why is it resetting it back upon reboot... it should stay that way...

[tobyg]

I'll have to try this... but yes, generally Registry (some) edits take effect immediately.

For instance, enabling "CoolBits" from nVidia in the Registry gives access to the overclocking menu in the stock nVidia software without a reboot, so I'm fairly confident this would work the same way.

The question is, why is it resetting it back upon reboot... it should stay that way...

Sure, coolbits is just a key that the nvidia control panel looks at every time it is opened... but changing something related to hardware settings generally takes a reboot to take effect. I did read one other place that the DMA settings took effect immediately, I just found it hard to believe. If you search microsofts support site, almost everything involving changing the registry usually states at the end "Reboot for the settings to take effect".

[sirnh]

Here is a method to set (without reboot) ultra DMA-6 data transfers with the internal SATA drive on a Mac Pro base config (no upgrde or options) with windows xp. Unfortunately this state is lost after reboot.

1) boot windows with HDD data transfer in PIO mode :mad:


2) launch regedit and open the following entry :(

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Class\{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\0002]

2) check the presence of the following values :o

"MatchingDeviceId"="primary_ide_channel"
"DriverDesc"="Primary IDE Channel"
"MasterDeviceType"=dword:00000001
"MasterDeviceTimingModeAllowed"=dword:ffffffff
"UserMasterDeviceTimingModeAllowed"=dword:ffffffff

3) Modify :confused:

"MasterDeviceTimingMode"=dword:00000010

to

"MasterDeviceTimingMode"=dword:ffffffff

this tels XP to select the best possible transfer mode: ie. ultra DMA-6. without reboot. ;)

Editing such values is known to be risky, might fail on your machine and require reinstallation of XP. :eek:

But it worked on my system. :D

A more persistent solution would be welcomed.:)

This is not really turning on DMA mode... This is just tricking the property page for the driver setting window.

DMA mode is only set when the driver loads.

I have seen other articles which discuss this approach, but they always include a reboot step to engage the changes.

[JNaut]

Wait, so this actually isn't enabling DMA access - it's just a hack to make it appear as if it's enabled? If so, that doesn't seem quite as useful... :rolleyes:

[egeis]

So the registry edit it not the answer yet.... Or can anyone verify it works?

I learned long ago only to play with the regedit if you are absolutly sure its going to fix a problem and more than one person has tried it, else I end up installing windows again.

[eric2006]

I confirm that the registry edit only gives an impression that DMA is enabled, when looking in the device manager.

I tried HDtune and acknowledge that the disk transfer rate does not change.

I apologize for the wrong expectation. But I'm not giving up. I'll be more careful next time though.

:(

Eric

[Tjort]

When I try to copy a large file from the superdrive in Boot Camp, XP goes all choppy. It's mostly noticable by the choppy mouse behaviour. According to task manager, one of the cores gets maxed out when I use the superdrive. Could this be attributed to the PIO problem? Anyone else noticing this or am I alone with this problem?

[Fadl]

I think only a firmware update could fix this.

[Origin]

Despite the fact that Bootcamp Beta is clearly NOT SUPPORTED by Apple, did anyone contact them for this big issue ? Or maybe, did anyone had the opportunity to discuss this with a technical professionnal ?

[sirnh]

Despite the fact that Bootcamp Beta is clearly NOT SUPPORTED by Apple, did anyone contact them for this big issue ? Or maybe, did anyone had the opportunity to discuss this with a technical professionnal ?

I am a technical professional (although I don't work for Apple). I do realtime programming for both the Mac and PC platform for a company called Avid Technology. We are looking at the Mac Pro as a possible cross-platform development environment.

[tobyg]

When I try to copy a large file from the superdrive in Boot Camp, XP goes all choppy. It's mostly noticable by the choppy mouse behaviour. According to task manager, one of the cores gets maxed out when I use the superdrive. Could this be attributed to the PIO problem? Anyone else noticing this or am I alone with this problem?


You're not alone. This is the nature of the hard drives being in PIO mode.

[Mr. Mister]

I am a technical professional (although I don't work for Apple). I do realtime programming for both the Mac and PC platform for a company called Avid Technology. We are looking at the Mac Pro as a possible cross-platform development environment.
Be quiet, they'll just try to put you at a disadvantage so that Final Cut can be a better product. :p

[chrismmx]

boot camp for MAC PRO is came out, try it if the problem is solved. i would like to know it. Can somme sone here try it?

http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/publicbeta.html

[tobyg]

boot camp for MAC PRO is came out, try it if the problem is solved. i would like to know it. Can somme sone here try it?

http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/publicbeta.html

Looks just like the beta 1.1 that has been out for a week or so now. This doesn't help.

[Mr. Mister]

God almighty I hope Apple fixes this soon.

[FabioC]

Man, I don't know what's worse.. waiting for this fix or waiting for my X1900XT BTO to ship.

[CyberPrey]

Man, I don't know what's worse.. waiting for this fix or waiting for my X1900XT BTO to ship.

X1900XT........

Why? Because my OS X performance isn't suffering at all with the hard drives but my video performance could be better with the X1900XT :)

[G5guy]

From Tobyg in another thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=225913):

In my experience, if I put the HD as 'master', I could get UDMA 5 speeds. This was fast, but not as fast as it should be or as fast as SATA would be. If I put the HD in as 'slave' I would get UDMA0, which was not fast. If I put the HD on 'master' and the optical drive on 'slave', oSX would no longer eject the tray by hitting the 'eject' key.

I am interested in workarounds for this until Apple fixes it (they will).

Toby, did you try shift+eject when you had the optical drive on slave? You probably did but I want to make sure.

I assume the eject icon in OS X finder windows and right clicking worked on the drive icon?

I am going to buy this machine for dual-OS use and while this may not be optimum, buying a cheap drive and using it in the optical spot would work fine for me if it was reasonable in speed while this gets fixed.

[Mr. Mister]

Man, I don't know what's worse.. waiting for this fix or waiting for my X1900XT BTO to ship.
With any luck, this'll be fixed before or while it ships.

[tobyg]

From Tobyg in another thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=225913):



I am interested in workarounds for this until Apple fixes it (they will).

Toby, did you try shift+eject when you had the optical drive on slave? You probably did but I want to make sure.

I assume the eject icon in OS X finder windows and right clicking worked on the drive icon?

I am going to buy this machine for dual-OS use and while this may not be optimum, buying a cheap drive and using it in the optical spot would work fine for me if it was reasonable in speed while this gets fixed.

Yes I tried every method of ejecting. I even added the eject item to the menu, that did nothing. Very strange.

When I put two optical drives in, the menu eject item changed to "Eject Lower Super Drive" and "Eject Upper Super Drive" or something...

PATA speeds are reasonable, if you put the HD as master and optical as slave. In OSX you can continue to eject any media in the drive by right clicking on the icon of the media and saying eject... it's just you can't open the tray when there is no media in the drive with F12 or the Eject menu item. For that I went to a shell and typed 'drutil eject'

And a quick note... I won't be monitoring these threads much anymore. Returned the Mac Pro today. I'll check back in a month or two or when Leopard comes out to see if the problems have been fixed.

[orbitalpunk]

did you take the 10% restocking fee hit?

[tobyg]

did you take the 10% restocking fee hit?

I sure did. But I figure I'll wait for them to sort out the problems, and buy a Mac Pro when Leopard comes out. At that point, I'd only be out $120 if you factor in the $130 leopard would cost me when it comes out anyway.

[G5guy]

Yes I tried every method of ejecting. I even added the eject item to the menu, that did nothing. Very strange.

When I put two optical drives in, the menu eject item changed to "Eject Lower Super Drive" and "Eject Upper Super Drive" or something...

PATA speeds are reasonable, if you put the HD as master and optical as slave. In OSX you can continue to eject any media in the drive by right clicking on the icon of the media and saying eject... it's just you can't open the tray when there is no media in the drive with F12 or the Eject menu item. For that I went to a shell and typed 'drutil eject'

And a quick note... I won't be monitoring these threads much anymore. Returned the Mac Pro today. I'll check back in a month or two or when Leopard comes out to see if the problems have been fixed.

Thanks for the info. I have read many of your posts on the various forums and I know you tried hard to resolve the issue. Too bad Apple is quiet on this as they might have saved some sales.

I will hold off ordering my Mac Pro until they get this fixed as well. Since mine will be loaded with 4gb ram and the quadro card for CAD work, I want to be sure it is right as well. I need a machine soon to bring into a large corporation (almost all Dell) for consulting work. Bringing an Apple in would be fun. ;)

Makes you wonder how many units Apple is missing out on due to this issue!

[CyberPrey]

Makes you wonder how many units Apple is missing out on due to this issue!

Well, at least 75-100 from the company I work for.... they opted out due to poor windows performance :(

Now they are purchasing Dell's......

[G5guy]

Well, at least 75-100 from the company I work for.... they opted out due to poor windows performance :(

Now they are purchasing Dell's......


Ouch! I hope an Apple sales rep was involved so they hammer the Devs to fix the problem. That kind of unit quantity usually gets special treatment from my experience.

[CyberPrey]

Ouch! I hope an Apple sales rep was involved so they hammer the Devs to fix the problem. That kind of unit quantity usually gets special treatment from my experience.

Actually, there was. I got to talk with him breifly. I had mentioned that I had a Mac Pro, and I was also not to impressed with the windows performance. The rep was actually fairly smart on the hardware side of things, and I feel that Apple will get this ironed out... However, I don't know about a timeframe.....

I also... heh he... managed to slip him the URL of the forums here so that he could see that there are many many many people affected by this...

[MacProGuy]

Thanks for the info. I have read many of your posts on the various forums and I know you tried hard to resolve the issue. Too bad Apple is quiet on this as they might have saved some sales.

I will hold off ordering my Mac Pro until they get this fixed as well. Since mine will be loaded with 4gb ram and the quadro card for CAD work, I want to be sure it is right as well. I need a machine soon to bring into a large corporation (almost all Dell) for consulting work. Bringing an Apple in would be fun. ;)

Makes you wonder how many units Apple is missing out on due to this issue!


Apple's infuriatingly silent treatment was one of the reasons I took my MacPro back.

If they'd just have acknowledge the problem, and that they planned a fix... ANYTIME, I'd have kept it.

I could NOT afford to take that chance.

The last time I was burned by Apple was a PowerPC 7300...

OMG... had a software glitch that didn't allow it to connect to the internet... for almost 6 months before it got fixed.

Left them for 3 years when that happened.

yeesh...

[RichP]

On one hand, its not really an Apple priority, because are asking for a fix to a beta program that runs an OS they dont support. Not like OSX is having issues.

That being said, a major selling point of these machines to businesses and indviduals is their windows ability. Its a relatively inexpensive workstation, that can offer some good features (such as OSX without being boxxed into only OSX progs) It kept me from buying one, between Rosetta not running well (as expected) AND poor windows performance, the only thing this machine is going to do better is run Firefox and iTunes, which dont exactly need more speed...


Has anyone tried a SATA card controller in a macpro? Could shed some light on the situtation, or be an in-term solution.

[ctishue]

Has anyone tried a SATA card controller in a macpro? Could shed some light on the situtation, or be an in-term solution.

This is exactly what I am thinking of doing. I am considering getting a PCI-E SATA2 card that works in both Windows and OS X natively. I'll then put an external drive on the card for Windows use. If anyone else has the extra parts laying around to try this before I buy the card, that would be great.

Also if anyone could reccomend a good PCI-E card with external e.sata ports, I would be most appreciative.

[sirnh]

This is exactly what I am thinking of doing. I am considering getting a PCI-E SATA2 card that works in both Windows and OS X natively. I'll then put an external drive on the card for Windows use. If anyone else has the extra parts laying around to try this before I buy the card, that would be great.

Also if anyone could reccomend a good PCI-E card with external e.sata ports, I would be most appreciative.

You may find that your PCI-E sata card won't be recognized by the EFI/CSM for the purposes of booting, but they should work fine once the OS is loaded... if you can figure out how to manage the cabling issues.

[chrismmx]

You may find that your PCI-E sata card won't be recognized by the EFI/CSM for the purposes of booting, but they should work fine once the OS is loaded... if you can figure out how to manage the cabling issues.

that would be great! can someone who have the MAC PRO try it, pease!:(

[Mr. Mister]

Somebody should call Apple Support just to see if they have even just a canned response for this that might shed some light on it.

[ctishue]

Cabling wouldn't be an issue as I'd make the drive external and use the e.sata connector. I'm sure windows would pick it up fine with the right drivers after booting, but I don't know that it would be possible to boot from it in the first place...sigh....there has to be some workaround for now. I want to toss my PC out the window!!! Please Apple!!! =D

[The Inevitable]

As an alternative, you could use an external FireWire 800 drive as your Windows drive, as Windows boots just fine from external drives. It should be just as fast as an internal HD, since FireWire 800's theoretical bandwidth is greater than any single hard drive can deliver. I couldn't say how fast it is in practice, however, because I don't own a FW800 drive.

For $75 + shipping, you can get a FW800 enclosure (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817146603&ATT=17-146-603&CMP=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r). Macally's drive enclosures have always been very good in my experience.

People in this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=191777) have posted their experiences with installing Windows onto external FireWire and USB drives. Notably, posts #11 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2291889&postcount=11) and #15 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2291889&postcount=15) explain how to install to an external HD. Despite others saying that it shouldn't be possible to boot from an external HD, it is perfectly possible (post #22 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2291889&postcount=22) gives a possible explanation on why it does work).

[ctishue]

Hmmm thanks. I'll look into that. If Firewire 800 is fast enough to run Windows and PC games without noticing too much I might just go for that.

[Mr. Mister]

I just fired off an email to bootcamp@apple.com about the problem; I recommend you all do the same.

[scratchmaster]

i just did the same... i hope they get the point and fix this very soon...

[hadleydb]

I just fired off an email to bootcamp@apple.com about the problem; I recommend you all do the same.


I just emailed them as well.

[scratchmaster]

after installing xp on the mac pro and updating with the newest drives provided by mac.. i am getting a yellow question mark in my device manager
"BASE SYSTEM DEVICE" any one knows what that may be ??

[jdwl]

The Silicon Image 3132 is PCI-E and osx and windows compatible (both ppc and intel).

[ctishue]

Reading back over the thread one more time I saw that someone has already tried the Siig PCI-E SATA card and was unable to boot from it. Oh well for that idea. Guess I'll research FW 800 a little more, but that sounds like it has some glitches of its own.

[scratchmaster]

just got off the phone with apple support...
they said they do not provide support for the xp side of the mac pro ..
however the guy said to try parallell and that since its an intel chip thats inside the mac pro .. it will run better ... has anyone tried that as yet ???

[Mr. Mister]

What we really need is to somehow get through to somebody at Apple who's not a tech support dweeb about this issue and ask them what the hell is going on.

[amin]

How big of a problem is this issue? I am waiting for my Mac Pro to ship (estimate is that it will ship by this coming Monday), and I will need to use Windows on it once or twice a day for a short period. If Parallels is made to work on the Mac Pro, my needs will be well addressed. Until then, I'd like to use Boot Camp. I just need to run some very simple work-related software that shouldn't tax the hard drive much. Runs fine on my Powerbook with Virtual PC. Will the Boot Camp issue in this thread be a real problem for me?

[Mr. Mister]

How big of a problem is this issue? I am waiting for my Mac Pro to ship (estimate is that it will ship by this coming Monday), and I will need to use Windows on it once or twice a day for a short period. If Parallels is made to work on the Mac Pro, my needs will be well addressed. Until then, I'd like to use Boot Camp. I just need to run some very simple work-related software that shouldn't tax the hard drive much. Runs fine on my Powerbook with Virtual PC. Will the Boot Camp issue in this thread be a real problem for me?
It'll just take hella long (minutes instead of seconds) to launch programs.

[scratchmaster]

But Has Anyone Tried Parallell On The Mac Pro As Yet ?????

[Mr. Mister]

Let's All Try To Type In Large Capital Letters

[cjkihlbom]

But Has Anyone Tried Parallell On The Mac Pro As Yet ?????
Yes, it doesn't work yet. Lots of posts about this in other threads. Try the search function...

[amin]

It'll just take hella long (minutes instead of seconds) to launch programs.

Wow, that sounds terrible!

[Laslo Panaflex]

Yes, it doesn't work yet. Lots of posts about this in other threads. Try the search function...

Actaully parallels does work, I had it running on my mac pro. There is a thread on how to get it to work on a Mac Pro on the parallels forums. It involves typing a command in the terminal that forces OS X to run in 32bit mode instead of 64bit mode.

[amin]

That workaround makes me nervous. At any rate, a Parallels spokesperson recently said they would release a Mac Pro-compatible version within 1-2 weeks.

[aiongiant]

i installed bootcamp on my Mac Pro it gets about 3.6mb/sec speed for the hdd
but some ppl have posted running it on an external drive.. so i checked how fast my external drive using usb2 is running at and it's going about 25mb/sec
gonna try installing windows xp on the external drive and should be alot better performance than the internal sata until they figure out how to get it working properly

[amin]

i installed bootcamp on my Mac Pro it gets about 3.6mb/sec speed for the hdd
but some ppl have posted running it on an external drive.. so i checked how fast my external drive using usb2 is running at and it's going about 25mb/sec
gonna try installing windows xp on the external drive and should be alot better performance than the internal sata until they figure out how to get it working properly

Let us know how that works!

[aiongiant]

after a few tinkering around i got windows xp to finally recognize the drive and copy some installation files...but when it reboots to start installation i get the blue screen!!! booo i dunno how to fix it.. anyone have similar problems?:confused:

[chrismmx]

Apple Apple i hate you! Why you got this terrible probleme!:confused: I can't buy the Macpro since i wait for two years!:mad:

[chrismmx]

can somme one try this:

a adaptater SATA to IDE in using the IDE cable in the compartment de DVD driver to connecte a SATA hard driver

http://www.ldlc.com/fiche/PB00037897.html

i think if that work, it might be a TEMPORARY solution for the SATA HD's user.
Can someone try it?:confused:

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/6195/ld00004943072dd7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Origin]

Salut ChrisMMX ;)

Je ne pense pas que ça fasse avancer le chmilblic, étant donné qu'on ne fait que contourner le pb. A défaut, ca peut permettre d'utiliser un disque SATA sur le port IDE du MacPro, mais c'est bien tout ;)

English version (:D) :

I don't think that you would take any advantage with this adaptor, at least, use a SATA drive with the second IDE connector in the MacPro... but not more ;)

[chrismmx]

Salut origin,

c'est vrai que ça ne fait pas avancer. Mais au moin ça doit marcher juste pour attendre la solution officielle d'Apple.

moi je n'ai que des DD SATA, c'est pour ça que je ne peux pas commander mon MacPro pour le moment, ça me casse:mad: J'ai attendu deux ans pour une solution win-osx, et voilà! finalement, ça ne marche pas encore parfaitement!:mad:

English version (forgive me my poor english):confused:
i know that would take any advantage, pas at least i hink it's a solution before apple's offical solution.

[darkcurse]

I really don't understand what the fuss is all about. I mean its definately a driver issue since OS X doesn't have these problems. And, yes Apple will definately fix it when leopard(and the final version of bootcamp) comes out. Before that might I politely remind everyone here that BootCamp is still in BETA! That means certain things still don't work. Cut Apple some slck man. You can't expect to buy the latest and greatest hardware from Apple and expect BETA software to work flawlessly. Yes, please email Apple about how they can better improve the software but getting pissed just coz you can't run windows is ludicrous IMO!

[Origin]

It's not ludicrous, it's just a technical issue that some of us would like to see fixed soon because we juste NEED the dual boot in good conditions, I.E. with a Windows OS fully functionnal. If you're not concerned, then leave this thread.

[chrismmx]

I really don't understand what the fuss is all about. I mean its definately a driver issue since OS X doesn't have these problems. And, yes Apple will definately fix it when leopard(and the final version of bootcamp) comes out. Before that might I politely remind everyone here that BootCamp is still in BETA! That means certain things still don't work. Cut Apple some slck man. You can't expect to buy the latest and greatest hardware from Apple and expect BETA software to work flawlessly. Yes, please email Apple about how they can better improve the software but getting pissed just coz you can't run windows is ludicrous IMO!


:D just calm down, i use mac osx, but i have my require to windows too.;)
however it's apple's responsibility! coz even Bootcamp is BETA, it's a apple's software:p

take it easy:D

[darkcurse]

Yes this is a technical issue. But Running windows on a mac is NOT I REPEAT NOT an Apple advertised use of the machine as yet! And you do realize you all are basically guinea pigs "testing" bootcamp out. All of you obsessing about running windows now just boggles my mind. Apple WILL resolve the issue by updating the drivers. Just wait patiently is all I can say. I mean when they updated bootcamp to version 1.1 they added in support for the built-in iSights for iMacs, MacBooks and macBook Pros. I wasn't expecting them to ever do that so soon but they did. So, have a little faith in Apple people. Because at the end of the day, it will be fixed just don't obsess about it so much. Macs run Mac OSX. The fact that they can run windows now(albeit with a few quirks) is just a testament of Apple's goodwill. All I'm saying is that I feel for you since you got a beast of a machine which promises much. But cut them some slack. I'm sure they are working on it and who knows, a driver update might come out before Leopard launches :)

[Origin]

I did not know that is was forbbiden to try some hacks while "patiently" waiting for the Apple fix.

Thx a lot for the info :D

[JNaut]

But Running windows on a mac is NOT I REPEAT NOT an Apple advertised use of the machine as yet!

It most certainly is. But let's please not get into this debate again...

[chrismmx]

just calm down, otherwise the webmaster will shut down this thread, ok?

eveyboby has his unique require, if you don't like it, let it go, you can't force other persOn to take your opinion. we are in a DEMOCRACY society. ;)

WOULD YOU PLEASE JUSTE CALM DOWN?

[darkcurse]

Yeah if it satisfies your geeky nature try all the hacks you want. I pity the guy who hacked the EFI so that we had a hope of installing windows on the new Intel Macs only to have Apple launch the BootCamp beta program like a few weeks after. Hmm, nowhere on the MacPro's pages do I see any sign of Windows. Even on Apple's BootCamp page it says

More and more people are buying and loving Macs. To make this choice simply irresistible, Apple will include technology in the next major release of Mac OS X, Leopard, that lets you install and run the Windows XP operating system on your Mac. Called Boot Camp, you can download a public beta today.

So uh yeah, Windows on a Mac... Not fully operational yet.

[chrismmx]

I did not know that is was forbbiden to try some hacks while "patiently" waiting for the Apple fix.

Thx a lot for the info :D

i think we CAN talk about it, because the subjet is (Slow SATA performance on Mac Pro in XP/Bootcamp Reply to Thread), i juste propose some temporary solution:D it's absolutely NOT hacks. tu rigole!:D

[CyberPrey]

I think you all need to take some asprin and try to relax...

1. Bootcamp is BETA... its bugged, its not perfect, it is a work in progress...
2. Apple DOES want to allow the use of windows on their hardware
3. The Mac Pro, while a FANTASTIC machine, has slow hard drive operation under windows.

3 points, all true.

Yes, we can all try whatever we want to make windows performance more acceptable... go for it. Its YOUR machine, try what you want. No one can argue that point... you bought it, its yours, play with it....

Yes, Bootcamp is BETA. That means it is NOT a finished product. Getting mad because BETA software does not perform is really rather foolish and just not very well thought out. Instead of getting mad, write to apple and explain the issue you are having, and point out WHY getting it resolved in an update of bootcamp would be beneficial to you AND to Apple.....

And Yes, Apple DOES want people to have the ability to run Windows on their hardware. It is a MAJOR breakthrough for them, because they realize how many people LOVE their hardware, but want the software utopia of the windows universe. Apple see's this, they have acknowledged this, and they ARE going to make it work. Anyone who feels apple is going to let the mac pro have slow sata performance forever is foolishly living in an alternate universe. Apple will correct the issue, because it is VERY beneficial for them.

Relax, it will all work out. In the meantime, try whatever you want to fix it.. but don't bust Apple's chops about it, and don't bust other peoples chops over it....

And yes, I am incredibly impatient for the SATA fix.. I'm a total gamer.. and I gave up a SWEET gaming rig to get my Mac Pro.. and I have not had my guild wars fix in a long time..... GAHHHH!!!!!!

[chrismmx]

Relax, it will all work out. In the meantime, try whatever you want to fix it.. but don't bust Apple's chops about it, and don't bust other peoples chops over it....



i just expecting apple's solution, and before that, i juste want to try some solution for everybody here, just like the others persons here. did i HURT some one?

[Spanky Deluxe]

While I agree that Apple should try to get a working hard drive driver out, well actually Intel should, if people want to run Windows at the moment then installing a cheap or spare ATA133 drive in the spare Superdrive slot should do the job and you can pick a small hard drive for very little. No offence, but if you're spending over $2000 on a computer then $50 for an 80gb ATA hard drive isn't exactly a lot. You can always sell it on eBay or put it in an external case afterwards.

[CyberPrey]

i just expecting apple's solution, and before that, i juste want to try some solution for everybody here, just like the others persons here. did i HURT some one?

Feeling guilty over something? :eek: did I mention your name? :D

My thought was it was a GENERAL post to everyone getting very avid over each side of the "discussion"

[RichP]

Yeah if it satisfies your geeky nature try all the hacks you want. I pity the guy who hacked the EFI so that we had a hope of installing windows on the new Intel Macs only to have Apple launch the BootCamp beta program like a few weeks after.



PITY???!?? Dont forget, those guys who put on XP-on-Mac did win over $10,000 USD!

I agree with those that say dont blame Apple. Its BETA software running an unsupported operatiing system. We shoudl be grateful apple even released bootcamp, XP on Mac was no nearly as elegant or well-working.

That being said, Ill grab a MacPro once this SATA thing gets fixed :D

[chrismmx]

Feeling guilty over something? :eek:


Should i?:D

[sirnh]

PITY???!?? Dont forget, those guys who put on XP-on-Mac did win over $10,000 USD!

I think the XP-On-Mac contest actually pushed Apple's hand to release Boot Camp earlier than planned. Apple really didn't want people hacking the EFI, and they knew how popular the XP On Mac project was. So they released Boot Camp to retain control over EFI and the platform, in general. If the XP On Mac EFI hack never came into existance, I don't think we would have seen Boot Camp until now, with the WWDC developer preview, if not even later. It could have been one of the major features that Apple decided to keep private until later in the year.

[FabioC]

To anyone even *thinking* of posting to this thread, post #117 is required reading.

[Mr. Mister]

To anyone even *thinking* of posting to this thread, post #117 is required reading.
You mean "everything that's obvious as feck to everybody?"

[Mike A]

OK guys. I have an un-opened MacPro right here and I need to decide whether it goes back, or is pressed into service...

The plan was to use it 98% in XP (we are a dual Mac & PC based digital graphics studio - needs must etc.) so performance in XP is very important.

If I'm understanding correctly (and I'm no techy) we've no real option other than to instal XP on the internal disk. However, if I added a USB2 external I could keep my windows applications and work files on that.

In this case, would the HD performance hit just be on booting? Would a good external HD (say a Lacie 250gig connected via USB2) be just as fast as an internal SATA drive? If not what sort of performance hit could we expect?

Mike A.

[Mr. Mister]

It sounds like you're going to be working in graphics-intensive apps like Photoshop, which has a scratch disk typically on the internal drive. If you put the scratch on the SATA internal, performance in PS will be absolutely horrific. If you put your scratch on the USB2 drive, performance is going to be slower but probably still workable.

Send an email to bootcamp@apple.com about this and tell them your situation and that without an answer you may have to return your Mac Pro.

[FabioC]

You mean "everything that's obvious as feck to everybody?"

That, too.

[t0pcat]

Install a ide drive above the superdrive and everything works fine, use it as a temp fix until sata gets sorted out! :)

[darkcurse]

I think the XP-On-Mac contest actually pushed Apple's hand to release Boot Camp earlier than planned. Apple really didn't want people hacking the EFI, and they knew how popular the XP On Mac project was. So they released Boot Camp to retain control over EFI and the platform, in general. If the XP On Mac EFI hack never came into existance, I don't think we would have seen Boot Camp until now, with the WWDC developer preview, if not even later. It could have been one of the major features that Apple decided to keep private until later in the year.

That may be so. But anyways, I just want to apologise for the tone I used in my previous posts. I'm currently working for an authorised reseller in Malaysia because we don't have our own "Apple Retail" store, and have just been increasingly frustrated when people who buy macs come and complain that certain things in XP doesn't yet work and then blame Apple. While I understand that installing XP on your MacPro's are important for some people, please don't blame Apple because BootCamp as it is now is still beta.

[aiongiant]

ok so ive put it internal using the 2nd bay IDE cable to my hdd
i'm getting about 15 mb/s so definetly much faster than the sata speed.. but wondering if theres a registry thing or something to make it go faster..

[tobyg]

ok so ive put it internal using the 2nd bay IDE cable to my hdd
i'm getting about 15 mb/s so definetly much faster than the sata speed.. but wondering if theres a registry thing or something to make it go faster..

Did you put it on as a slave to the optical drive?

Try putting the HD on as master. It'll go faster. Find my other posts explaining all of that and what happens when you put the optical drive on as a slave.

[egeis]

I was wondering, using a external drive could I install applications to that and keep windows on the SATA drive. Would it give me faster load times in loading apps.

I have a spare firewire/usb external drive.

[CyberPrey]

I was wondering, using a external drive could I install applications to that and keep windows on the SATA drive. Would it give me faster load times in loading apps.

I have a spare firewire/usb external drive.

yes and no...

you would also want to relocate your windows swap file over to that drive, which is easy...

But, when windows loads its own files (which it does now and then..) you will slow down as it grabs them from the SATA drive.

[egeis]

As an alternative, you could use an external FireWire 800 drive as your Windows drive, as Windows boots just fine from external drives. It should be just as fast as an internal HD, since FireWire 800's theoretical bandwidth is greater than any single hard drive can deliver. I couldn't say how fast it is in practice, however, because I don't own a FW800 drive.

For $75 + shipping, you can get a FW800 enclosure (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817146603&ATT=17-146-603&CMP=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r). Macally's drive enclosures have always been very good in my experience.

People in this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=191777) have posted their experiences with installing Windows onto external FireWire and USB drives. Notably, posts #11 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2291889&postcount=11) and #15 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2291889&postcount=15) explain how to install to an external HD. Despite others saying that it shouldn't be possible to boot from an external HD, it is perfectly possible (post #22 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2291889&postcount=22) gives a possible explanation on why it does work).

Ive used these enclosers to Clone the Macs at my school they are very good. I bought a "mac mini" one from another site that works great, but there is no cooling. The power source is no the outside though so it never gets to warm. This case will also act as a Master boot drive using firewire on apple side unlike my Mac mini style case.

[egeis]

yes and no...

you would also want to relocate your windows swap file over to that drive, which is easy...

But, when windows loads its own files (which it does now and then..) you will slow down as it grabs them from the SATA drive.

Is there a tutorial or something i could read about installing windows on a Firewire device.

[jlmodell]

And yes, I am incredibly impatient for the SATA fix.. I'm a total gamer.. and I gave up a SWEET gaming rig to get my Mac Pro.. and I have not had my guild wars fix in a long time..... GAHHHH!!!!!!


Guild Wars works perfectly fine. I transferred the entire 2.8gig folder from my old pc to the mac pro (that took forever obviously). The game runs with every setting on high, aa 4x, 1680x1050 (highest i have). The only problem is loading takes maybe 5-10 seconds when you have to download an update to an area.

I guess if you dont have the folder still, you can install overnight.


[2.0ghz mac pro, 7300gt]

[aiongiant]

heres a temp fix i can live with until the SATA is working at full speed

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2761179&postcount=20

[Ashwired]

heres a temp fix i can live with until the SATA is working at full speed

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2761179&postcount=20

Thx ! that work perfectly !
65Mo/s IDE :cool:

[fgnh3qo4678w]

Don't ask me how, don't ask me when, but a fix is on the way.

This might happen on the next release of bootcamp, but then again maybe not until later. There are people looking into this even ask we speak. I wish I could say more, but I'm not into the whole losing of the job type thing.

I hope this is the answer alot of people (myself included) have been waiting to hear.

[RichP]

Don't ask me how, don't ask me when, but a fix is on the way.

This might happen on the next release of bootcamp, but then again maybe not until later. There are people looking into this even ask we speak. I wish I could say more, but I'm not into the whole losing of the job type thing.

I hope this is the answer alot of people (myself included) have been waiting to hear.

Isn't this like saying "Apple will release a new iPod, we dont know when, or what it will do, but it is coming"

[Mr. Mister]

http://web.mac.com/terrabit/iWeb/macpro/xp.html

That seems to bring it up to DMA 4 and faster than IDE with no futzing around inside the Mac Pro's case even.

[freezerburrn]

Awesome find Mister! Has anyone been able to try this "work around" yet?

[RichP]

http://web.mac.com/terrabit/iWeb/macpro/xp.html

That seems to bring it up to DMA 4 and faster than IDE with no futzing around inside the Mac Pro's case even.

VERY VERY NICE! Not the quickest fix, but the fix makes very good sense, and should provide us with what we need.

Not to encourage pirating (everyone can provide their own purchased serial and activation) but once one person makes this disk, the ISO could just be distributed.

[Laslo Panaflex]

http://web.mac.com/terrabit/iWeb/macpro/xp.html

That seems to bring it up to DMA 4 and faster than IDE with no futzing around inside the Mac Pro's case even.

I am going to try this today and see if I can get it to work.

[Mr. Mister]

Seems like great news even if there is also an Apple patch on the horizon.

[aiongiant]

*CONFIRMED*

:D
just gave it a try and everythign works!!! 60mb/s for SATA2 internal drive ... tested using HDTune

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2764341&postcount=37

[Origin]

Good news guy !!!!!!!!

I'll try this as soon as I get my MacPro (Tomorrow or maybe Tuesday) ... can't wait !

[ctishue]

Yes it works! UDMA mode 4 and Sandra benchmarked at 58MB/s. Time to throw the PC out the window!

[tobyg]

Interesting. Great find. Hopefully at this point it actually WILL be just a driver issue and apple can fix it. I'm not sure why it would change things with the drivers being installed during the install vs. after the fact. Good luck to all you Mac Pro owners!

[RichP]

What about other machines that use this intel chipset? How do you install windows on them without slipstreaming the XP disk?

This seems like its an windows/intel problem more than apples problem.

[aiongiant]

i had no problems with installing bootcamp windows xp sp2 onto my MBP
didn't have to slipstream it with any other drivers

[nylon]

What about other machines that use this intel chipset? How do you install windows on them without slipstreaming the XP disk?

This seems like its an windows/intel problem more than apples problem.


Although Boot Camp is still in Beta and will prepetually be in BETA (since it allows Apple to not have to support the software), This is not a fault of MS. Apple's choice of server hardware for the MAC PRO requires the pre-installation of AHCI drivers for Windows through the F6 install method. Unless there is a workaround I cannot see how this will be possible. You cannot assign blame to Intel/MS for this one. It's just going to take some time.

[ammon]

Can anyone who has successfully tried this new method of XP2 installation please post the download links here??

The page doesn't show correctly and I can't see any links! Just underlined text!!!

Million thanks!!

[apfhex]

This is not a fault of MS. Apple's choice of server hardware for the MAC PRO requires the pre-installation of AHCI drivers for Windows through the F6 install method.
What exactly makes it necessary to install the drivers that way though? And what do you mean by F6 install method? Just curious, I haven't done much driver installation with Windows.

I'm wondering what steps on that page (http://web.mac.com/terrabit/iWeb/macpro/xp.html) are really required. It's basically just the Intel 631xESB chipset SATA drivers that are required, assuming you already have a driver disc burned from BootCamp 1.1, right? Aren't the 5000X chipset drivers included with that? Any way to "pre-install" the drivers without burning a custom install disc?

[Spanky Deluxe]

Could someone possibly create a PPF patch file that would patch a Windows ISO to the patched version required for installation. That could help a lot of people out here and if you've already done the patching then it wouldn't take very long to do. It wouldn't be illegal because you wouldn't be supplying a working Windows iso, just the patch to run on an image file that someone could have ripped from their own legitimate disk.

[RichP]

When I said chipset, I meant other xeon based machines and motherboards using the intel Intel 631xESB chipset.

Why cant the F6 method be used when installing on a MacPro? (F6 method is when you go through the intial install (blue screen) in Windows, where is says "Press F6 if you need to install any 3rd party drivers")

Bootcamp provides drivers AFTER the install, not before it. Windows will use generic driver to get things running, then you install the drivers from bootcamp to have things optimized correctly.

[apfhex]

Why cant the F6 method be used when installing on a MacPro?

Bootcamp provides drivers AFTER the install, not before it. Windows will use generic driver to get things running, then you install the drivers from bootcamp to have things optimized correctly.
So is that a rhetorical question? Sorry I can't tell. :) What I wanted to know is if the F6 method works, rather than having to burn a custom XP install disc, and also if anyone knows why the SATA drivers don't seem to work if you install them after Windows has been installed.

[amin]

http://web.mac.com/terrabit/iWeb/macpro/xp.html

That seems to bring it up to DMA 4 and faster than IDE with no futzing around inside the Mac Pro's case even.

Warning. When I follow the instructions by going to download WPA_Kill from filewatcher (I don't know what this site or this WPA_Kill are), Symantec detects a "high risk" virus called "Hacktool" :mad: . Not sure of the significance of this, but thought I should put it out there.

Edit - Does anyone know which parts of those instructions are actually necessary? I don't need to kill WPA (figured out what that means) or anything else similar. I just want Windows to run at a decent clip in Boot Camp!

[Chone]

So is that a rhetorical question? Sorry I can't tell. :) What I wanted to know is if the F6 method works, rather than having to burn a custom XP install disc, and also if anyone knows why the SATA drivers don't seem to work if you install them after Windows has been installed.

The F6 method works but you need a floppy disk which obviously the macs don't have, maybe you could do it with an external usb floppy, just write the SATA drivers to the floppy, reinstall windows and use the "F6 method" for the drivers.

[aiongiant]

you don't need to download any of thoese files
the WPA_Kill and the RemoveWGA thing
as thoese you won't use for this custom xp dealio

they are hack tools i belive for Windows Geniune thing?

The F6 method works but you need a floppy disk which obviously the macs don't have, maybe you could do it with an external usb floppy, just write the SATA drivers to the floppy, reinstall windows and use the "F6 method" for the drivers.

yea it should work if you have an external floppy i dont' see why not

[t0pcat]

*CONFIRMED*

TERRABIT has fixed the issue reload and now i get great speeds:D

[damado]

Could windows read a flash drive instead of the floppy?

Can someone explain why installing them during initial install is the only way it will work?

[amin]

*CONFIRMED*

TERRABIT has fixed the issue reload and now i get great speeds:D

Did you follow all of his instructions, or just slipstream the drivers into the installation disk?

[jlmodell]

Worked perfectly for me! Thanks!

I skipped everything except for the part about slip streaming the intel drivers to my disc.

http://gorkd.com/images/hd_speed.PNG


--
on a side note, windows does not see the soundcard at all... and i cannot figure out how to install it manually. this is the error i get. can anyone help?

http://gorkd.com/images/no_sound.PNG

[amin]

Worked perfectly for me! Thanks!

I skipped everything except for the part about slip streaming the intel drivers to my disc...

Thank you, the screenshot is a nice touch! Two questions for you:

1) Did you slipstream the 631xESB chipset SATA drivers only, or did you also slipstream the Intel 5000x chipset drivers?

2) Did you install Windows using Bootcamp?

Thanks again.

[jlmodell]

Thank you, the screenshot is a nice touch! Two questions for you:

1) Did you slipstream the 631xESB chipset SATA drivers only, or did you also slipstream the Intel 5000x chipset drivers?

2) Did you install Windows using Bootcamp?

Thanks again.

I added both, and used bootcamp assistant to start the installation.

I also fixed my sound problem via simple googling. I wonder if other ppl had the same problem b/c it seems to be caused by installing the chipset before SP2.

"...

4 go to "System Device", you'll see yellow mark on the device named "PCI Device", right click at the "PCI Device", select update driver

5 select your Realtek HD audio driver path and go to Directoty "WDM" such as c:\driver\audio\HDAudio\WDM and then click open

6 Windows will install Microsoft UAA Driver , and install your HD Audio driver automatically

7 reboot your machine again

8 enjoy your cool music"

[amin]

Thanks again. Very helpful!

[ammon]

Other question -

Which SATA drivers did you get???

The site says to use version 7.4.0.1005 from 5/15/2006, but the link goes to version 5.6.2.1002 from 7/24/2006.

Am I missing something here?????



Edit - Never mind. After reading through the entire process I see where he adds the 5.6.2.1002 drivers to the CD. Must be a typo! :)

[jlmodell]

Other question -

Which SATA drivers did you get???

The site says to use version 7.4.0.1005 from 5/15/2006, but the link goes to version 5.6.2.1002 from 7/24/2006.

Am I missing something here?????


http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df-external/confirm.aspx?httpDown=http://downloadmirror.intel.com/df-support/11207/eng/imsm_windows_x86-x64_v.5.6.2.1002.zip&agr=y&ProductID=2487&DwnldId=11207&strOSs=All&OSFullName=All%20Operating%20Systems&lang=eng
http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df-external/confirm.aspx?httpDown=http://downloadmirror.intel.com/df-support/11455/a08/infinst_autol.zip&agr=N&ProductID=816&DwnldId=11455&strOSs=All&OSFullName=All%20Operating%20Systems&lang=eng

I made a folder named "inteldrivers" sub directories, "inteldriverA" and "inteldriverB"

I unzipped the first one, and copied the 32-bit folder into 'inteldriverA.'
Unzipped the 2nd one and put its contents into 'inteldriverB'

I made a zip of my file, but i'm worried about hosting it on my server if it were to use up all my bandwidth.

*removed*

It will go down at 11pm (est). I think thats enough time for you and a few ppl to grab it.

[ammon]

I think thats enough time for you and a few ppl to grab it.

Thanks! I just downloaded it. Now to make myself a custom Windows XP CD!!

[waremaster]

Worked perfectly for me! Thanks!

I skipped everything except for the part about slip streaming the intel drivers to my disc.

http://gorkd.com/images/hd_speed.PNG


--
on a side note, windows does not see the soundcard at all... and i cannot figure out how to install it manually. this is the error i get. can anyone help?

http://gorkd.com/images/no_sound.PNG

Right click on my computer hit properties then choose device manager if you look down in system devices you will see a pci device with an ! on it double click on it and choose to install the driver no need to search the net it will get found from the macintosh drivers you already extracted

once that is found your sound will install automatically

LOL I didn't see you later post you fixed it.

[scratchmaster]

TO ALL WITH THE MAC PRO PLEASE USE THIS

http://web.mac.com/terrabit/iWeb/macpro/xp.html

ONCE DONE PROPERLY IT WILL WORK IN DMA MODE AND NOT PIO

I JUST DID IT AND MY MAC PRO IS SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET AS EVER.....

BE PATIENT ...READ AND FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS .....IT WILL WORK !!!!!

[aiongiant]

TO ALL WITH THE MAC PRO PLEASE USE THIS

http://web.mac.com/terrabit/iWeb/macpro/xp.html

ONCE DONE PROPERLY IT WILL WORK IN DMA MODE AND NOT PIO

I JUST DID IT AND MY MAC PRO IS SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET AS EVER.....

BE PATIENT ...READ AND FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS .....IT WILL WORK !!!!!

hehe somone forgot to turn off caps lock
but yea it's an excellent find!

[sirnh]

TO ALL WITH THE MAC PRO PLEASE USE THIS

http://web.mac.com/terrabit/iWeb/macpro/xp.html

ONCE DONE PROPERLY IT WILL WORK IN DMA MODE AND NOT PIO

I JUST DID IT AND MY MAC PRO IS SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET AS EVER.....

BE PATIENT ...READ AND FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS .....IT WILL WORK !!!!!

I have my MCE 2005 Install DVD slipstreamed and ready to try this workaround tonight. Like others, I skipped over the first few steps which really do nothing more than confuse process, just because the guy doesn't like certain things about the standard Windows install.

[MacsAttack]

While I will probably never need to install any version of Windows it it still nice to have the option. Good job to those who figured it out. I'm sure Apple will have a more elegant solution in the next version of Bootcamp, but you beat them to it with the work-around.

Didn't somebody return their Mac Pro last week just because it did not run an unsuported OS at full speed? Guess they should have waited... :D

[JNaut]

Didn't somebody return their Mac Pro last week just because it did not run an unsuported OS at full speed? Guess they should have waited... :D

I did, but it wasn't just because of that. The machine was just overkill for what I wanted it for (Windows gaming and Mac tinkering/web browsing). I just built a Core 2 Duo gaming PC for about $1,000 and I plan on grabbing a new Mac mini when they're released. Yeah, it's two boxes - but with a KVM, I won't need to reboot to play games. That was starting to annoy me too. :)

[Mr. Mister]

While I will probably never need to install any version of Windows it it still nice to have the option. Good job to those who figured it out. I'm sure Apple will have a more elegant solution in the next version of Bootcamp, but you beat them to it with the work-around.

Didn't somebody return their Mac Pro last week just because it did not run an unsuported OS at full speed? Guess they should have waited... :D
Guess Apple should've stopped being acting like a sullen child who won't speak to anybody.

[amac4me]

The issue is that the Intel's XP SATA drivers for the Intel 531xESB chips on the Mac Pro have to be included as part of the XP installation disk and installed as part of the new installation, not done after the install.

What you need to do is build a custom Windows XP boot disk.

Here's how:
http://web.mac.com/terrabit/iWeb/macpro/xp.html

[chrismmx]

Worked perfectly for me! Thanks!

I skipped everything except for the part about slip streaming the intel drivers to my disc.


http://gorkd.com/images/no_sound.PNG

SO, would you please tell me exactly which driver that i must download? Because there are a lot of drivers, I’m confused. And then, after that, which step I DON’T need to do?
Thanks

[Glen Quagmire]

You need:

Windows XP on CD
Service Pack 2 for XP
.NET framework version 2
nLite
Intel chipset drivers - link (http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df-external/T8Clearance.aspx?url=/11455/a08/infinst_autol.zip&agr=N&ProductID=816&DwnldID=11455&lang=eng)
Intel SATA driver - here (http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df-external/detail_desc.aspx?strstate=live&productid=2487&dwnldid=11207&agr=y&lang=eng&prdmap=2487)

You don't need the WPA_KILL or RemoveWGA. If you want these, they can be installed after you have installed XP. They remove the Windows Genuine Advantage check from Windows Update and Microsoft's downloads.

[Laslo Panaflex]

You need:

Windows XP on CD
Service Pack 2 for XP
.NET framework version 2
nLite
Intel chipset drivers - link (http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df-external/T8Clearance.aspx?url=/11455/a08/infinst_autol.zip&agr=N&ProductID=816&DwnldID=11455&lang=eng)
Intel SATA driver - here (http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df-external/detail_desc.aspx?strstate=live&productid=2487&dwnldid=11207&agr=y&lang=eng&prdmap=2487)

You don't need the WPA_KILL or RemoveWGA. If you want these, they can be installed after you have installed XP. They remove the Windows Genuine Advantage check from Windows Update and Microsoft's downloads.

Do you slipstream all the intel chipset drivers, or just the XP chipset drivers? If you extract all the chipset drivers from the installer there are many versions to choose from. Also there are 2 chipset drivers inside the XP folder, titled XP and SP, which is to be used? I made a custom install cd with ONLY the SATA driver, and windows seemed to install fine, but once installed sisoft sandra wouldn't run, saying couldn't connect to host machine, and other weird things like add/remove programs ultilty failing to work as well. This was after installing the bootcamp 1.1 drivers too.

All of my custom cds with the chipset dirvers keep stalling at the 34 minutes to go in the install process, the part where it is installing devices, making me think that I put the wrong drivers on the custom cd . . .

[chrismmx]

ok! thanks a lot, Glen.:D

[Glen Quagmire]

Do you slipstream all the intel chipset drivers, or just the XP chipset drivers? If you extract all the chipset drivers from the installer there are many versions to choose from. Also there are 2 chipset drivers inside the XP folder, titled XP and SP, which is to be used? I made a custom install cd with ONLY the SATA driver, and windows seemed to install fine, but once installed sisoft sandra wouldn't run, saying couldn't connect to host machine, and other weird things like add/remove programs ultilty failing to work as well. This was after installing the bootcamp 1.1 drivers too.

All of my custom cds with the chipset dirvers keep stalling at the 34 minutes to go in the install process, the part where it is installing devices, making me think that I put the wrong drivers on the custom cd . . .

For the chipset drivers, select the "XP" folder (make sure you select the SATA driver as well - imsm_windows_x86-x64_v.5.6.2.1002\32bit). If you read the readme file within the ZIP file, it says that the "SP" folder contains "special INFs" (whatever that means), so at a guess I'd say you could exclude them.

If memory serves (it's a while since I installed XP - I always use Ghost to reinstall) the installing drivers bit can take a while.

[Laslo Panaflex]

If memory serves (it's a while since I installed XP - I always use Ghost to reinstall) the installing drivers bit can take a while.

Thanks for the input, I think I may be running into issues becuase I was using an already slipstreamed win xp cd to create my custom one, though I don't know why that would be a problem. I am getting a OEM cd from my office today and will try again.

And yes, installing devices does take a while, but it was stalling at 34 minutes left for 10-15mins, I have never had it do that to me before.

[tobyg]

The issue is that the Intel's XP SATA drivers for the Intel 531xESB chips on the Mac Pro have to be included as part of the XP installation disk and installed as part of the new installation, not done after the install.

What you need to do is build a custom Windows XP boot disk.

Here's how:
http://web.mac.com/terrabit/iWeb/macpro/xp.html

This was just posted 2 pages back in this very same thread.

Search.

[Mr. Mister]

That link is the single thing so far that's EVER helped SATA performance on the Mac Pro. He can post thirty threads about that link and spam every "SLOW SATA ON MAC PRO WTF" thread with it for all I care as long as it works.

[Omnikurt]

I followed the instructions (without all the Kill WPA/WGA stuff) and the install seems to have worked flawlessly. I did have to fix the sound as previously posted.

Question:
I still have a question mark next to "Base System Device", and four exclamation points next to "PCI Express x4 ports 3, 5, 6, and 7". I figure the four PCI Express notifications are for the unused slots on the Motherboard. Any idea what the Base System Device is referring to? Am I missing a driver, or is this normal?

Thanks.

[aiongiant]

i have that same thing.. i think most ppl here do not sure how to fix that thought

[G5guy]

Well, now that I know there is a fix, I ordered my Mac Pro :D

It has the Nvidia Quadro card, so bet it takes a while. :(

I talked to a Windows expert and he thinks Windows will not recognize the flash usb disk during the install. If there is any other easy way it would sure be nice.

[MacsAttack]

Well, now that I know there is a fix, I ordered my Mac Pro :D

It has the Nvidia Quadro card, so bet it takes a while. :(

I talked to a Windows expert and he thinks Windows will not recognize the flash usb disk during the install. If there is any other easy way it would sure be nice.

How about creating two partitions on the disk (assuming you go for the XP-on-a-seperate-disk option). Format the smaller as FAT32 and put the files on there. Then install XP to the other partition.

More or less how we did it back in the bad old days of NT4 to avoid the old can't install NT4 until you can see the CD - cant see the CD until you install NT4 catch-22 situation (cause you never had the install disk set handy - buy everyone had a dos boot disk).

Even better would be to have the entire CD image on the partition - fast install/reinstall if you could lauch the setup exe somhow.

[AlexBlack]

Okay so I realize suck really bad at windows.

I have downloaded the drivers for both the chipset and the sata drive. When he says to make to seperate folders for each of the intel device drivers, is he talking about one folder for the sata files and one for all the chipset drivers OR do i take all of the .INF files and put them each in a different folder. Im confused as to how to set this up.

Im sorry in advance. :(

[jlmodell]

Okay so I realize suck really bad at windows.

I have downloaded the drivers for both the chipset and the sata drive. When he says to make to seperate folders for each of the intel device drivers, is he talking about one folder for the sata files and one for all the chipset drivers OR do i take all of the .INF files and put them each in a different folder. Im confused as to how to set this up.

Im sorry in advance. :(


IntelDrivers (Main Dir)
----IntelDriverA (Sub Dir 1)
--------Unzip the 32bit folder here ** SATA Drivers
----IntelDriverB (Sub Dir 2)
--------Unzip the whole thing here ** Chipset Drivers

http://gorkd.com/images/drivers.PNG

Thats how I did mine.

[scratchmaster]

I followed the instructions (without all the Kill WPA/WGA stuff) and the install seems to have worked flawlessly. I did have to fix the sound as previously posted.

Question:
I still have a question mark next to "Base System Device", and four exclamation points next to "PCI Express x4 ports 3, 5, 6, and 7". I figure the four PCI Express notifications are for the unused slots on the Motherboard. Any idea what the Base System Device is referring to? Am I missing a driver, or is this normal?

Thanks.


How did you fix the sound ??? I am having that same problem !!!!!

[amin]

->
I also fixed my sound problem via simple googling. I wonder if other ppl had the same problem b/c it seems to be caused by installing the chipset before SP2.

"...

4 go to "System Device", you'll see yellow mark on the device named "PCI Device", right click at the "PCI Device", select update driver

5 select your Realtek HD audio driver path and go to Directoty "WDM" such as c:\driver\audio\HDAudio\WDM and then click open

6 Windows will install Microsoft UAA Driver , and install your HD Audio driver automatically

7 reboot your machine again

8 enjoy your cool music"

[Mr. Mister]

Sounds great.

[amin]

Well, now that I know there is a fix, I ordered my Mac Pro :D


http://i.pbase.com/o4/13/473213/1/65933693.3Sei7ALA.bcdoc.jpg

I don't think we will ever be able to count on Boot Camp providing truly "the best of both worlds." Hopefully this fix will at least make it basically functional.

[AlexBlack]

IntelDrivers (Main Dir)
----IntelDriverA (Sub Dir 1)
--------Unzip the 32bit folder here ** SATA Drivers
----IntelDriverB (Sub Dir 2)
--------Unzip the whole thing here ** Chipset Drivers

http://gorkd.com/images/drivers.PNG

Thats how I did mine.

Thank you so much. That really cleared things up, but i think the site went down does anyone know where any alternative links are?

[CyberPrey]

Crap, I'm gone a couple days and you guys got the fix.... which is great!!!

Problem is that the website WITH The fix is down....

anyone able to provide an alternate link with full instructions?

[Laslo Panaflex]

All my custom cds stall at the "installing devices 34 minutes left".

I have made custom cds with only the SATA driver, SATA and only the xp chipset drivers, and SATA and ALL the chipset drivers.

I give up, hopefully someone will just post a pre-made .iso so on some torrent site :D

[toysblack]

Hello,
maybe that have nothing to do with the macpro but, I have a problem with the network adapter under XP.
I have two Macpros. under OSX (both) the network throughput is around 55-60 MB/sec .
Its connected via a gigiabit 8 ports switch with reliable cat 6 cables.
...under Xp ( both ) the throughput is half or less , around 20-30 MB/sec...!
Is it because of a XP limitation, do i need to setup something?.
any suggestions are warmly welcome!

Thanks.

Florian.


( by the way, both of them have a PATA disk for XP fast enough to handle the gigabit ...!)

[rick98761]

can someone repost the instructions. They have been removed.

[xvx]

I also need the instructions on this.. anyone have it cached that can pull the source and post it else where?

or post me your 'txtsetup.oem' and 'winnt.sif' files to get the drivers to load properly on startup and I should be able to get it to work from http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1703&page=6


thanks

[Neurorad]

Reupload of instructions from cache file!

[G5guy]

Fortunately I saved the web page. =) I also have the links so this is nice to copy/paste. I used pdf capture and the whole bit.

From the site:

****************
Simple Fix!
As you may or may not be aware, there exists a small compatibility problem between the Mac Pro and the recommended installation procedure for XP service pack 2 using Apple's BETA boot camp (http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/) application. The problem degrades a single modern SATA hard drive performance from 60-80 Gigabyte/s throughput down to a steady 3792 Kilobytes/s. If you are currently running XP on your Mac Pro, you will most likely have this problem.

The problem is that currently Intel's XP SATA drivers (for the Intel 531 xESB chipset found on the Mac Pro) MUST be included as part of the Windows XP installation disk and installed as part of a new installation, and not as an after-thought. (Don't ask me why, I don't know!)

Luckily for us Mac users, the windows community has been busy building automated tools that allow us to install device drivers and windows fix-packs directly onto installation disks to perform clean installations. The ability to install fix-packs means that your Windows XP Service-Pack 1 installation disc can be updated and used to build a Windows XP Service-Pack 2 disc as required by the latest Intel chipsets.

Requirements
You will want to download (or legally acquire) the following items:
* Any Windows XP Home or Professional (full installation disk)
* Download Service Pack 2 (http://www.alltheweb.com/) Network Installation Package (if required)
* Download WPA_KILL by searching www.filewatcher.com (http://www.filewatcher.com/) (remove spyware)
* Download RemoveWGA from www.FirewallLeakTester.com (http://www.firewallleaktester.com/tools_list.htm) (remove spyware)
* Download nLite (http://www.nliteos.com/) for free (and make a small donation)
* Download .NET Framework Version 2.0 (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=0856eacb-4362-4b0d-8edd-aab15c5e04f5&displaylang=en) Redistributable Package
* Download RVM XP Hot Fix Package (website (http://www.ryanvm.net/msfn/updatepack.html) )
__* Review other add-ons on that website
* Download Intel's 5000X chipset drivers (http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df-external/filter_results.aspx?strTypes=all&ProductID=816&OSFullName=Windows*+XP+Professional&lang=eng&strOSs=44&submit=Go%21) (thanks to for first publishing)
* Download Intel's 631 xESB chipset SATA drivers (http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df-external/detail_desc.aspx?strstate=live&productid=2487&dwnldid=11207&agr=y&lang=eng&prdmap=2487) (version 15/05/2006 7.4.0.1 005)
* Download ImgBurn (http://www.imgburn.com/) bootable CD burning tool (and make a small donation)
* Download SiSoftware Sandra Light from here (http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail/952306152/1) (benchmarking tool)

Building your custom XP boot disk
The first step is to download all the files into an installation directory (lets say C:\MacXP) on a working Windows box. This might be your currently booting XP on the Mac Pro, or any other modern windows box. I strongly recommend spending a few hours searching through the AddOn's (http://www.ryanvm.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=511) for nLite. These packages allow for Adobe Acrobat Reader, AVG Antivirus, and other free tools to be installed auto-magically in your installation.

Second step is to make a unique directory for each of the Intel device drivers (e.g, C: \MacXP\IntelDriverA), copy the drivers into the respective folders and expand the contents. I recommend

Third step is to install the .NET framework required by nLite.

Fourth step is to install ImgBurn if you don't already have a CD burning tool installed. (I selected ImgBurn because it was free, and it worked for me, even on the crippled SATA drive on my MacPro).

We will use the nLite tool to build the custom bootable cdrom. By following the steps above you have all the modules ready to pass into nLite when it requests it. The nLite installation process is very well described here (http://www.nliteos.com/guides.html) and I recommend you follow its instructions.

When you come up to Integrating the device drivers you MUST install the Intel Drivers you have downloaded. Select the "Insert" tab, followed by the "Multiple Driver Folder". If you followed my suggested directory naming structure, select the "C:\MacXP" folder, and click okay. A window will display all the Intel Drivers. Select All, then Okay. A second window will appear listing driver names in the "Text mode integration options". Select the ESB2 SATA RAID Controller (Server ESB2) entry, and press okay. The window will reappear, click cancel. Confirm that the "Intel, TXT-iaStore_ESB2, HDC, 5.6.2.1 002, 01/16/2006" item is present in the list. Click next, and continue following the nLite instructions.

Fifth Step is burn the .IS0 image file generated by nLITE.

Sixth Step is to perform a re-install of Windows XP using your custom boot disk.

Seventh Step is to run SiSoftware Sandra Light software to confirm that you have reasonable hard drive performance that reflects the drives installed in your system.

Party!

*****************

I had to do lots of work since this was an image with links outside of it. But I know this is a hot topic for all. :)

[macgeek2005]

Fortunately I saved the web page. =) I also have the links so this is nice to copy/paste. I used pdf capture and the whole bit.

From the site:

****************
Simple Fix!
As you may or may not be aware, there exists a small compatibility problem between the Mac Pro and the recommended installation procedure for XP service pack 2 using Apple's BETA boot camp (http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/) application. The problem degrades a single modern SATA hard drive performance from 60-80 Gigabyte/s throughput down to a steady 3792 Kilobytes/s. If you are currently running XP on your Mac Pro, you will most likely have this problem.

The problem is that currently Intel's XP SATA drivers (for the Intel 531 xESB chipset found on the Mac Pro) MUST be included as part of the Windows XP installation disk and installed as part of a new installation, and not as an after-thought. (Don't ask me why, I don't know!)

Luckily for us Mac users, the windows community has been busy building automated tools that allow us to install device drivers and windows fix-packs directly onto installation disks to perform clean installations. The ability to install fix-packs means that your Windows XP Service-Pack 1 installation disc can be updated and used to build a Windows XP Service-Pack 2 disc as required by the latest Intel chipsets.

Requirements
You will want to download (or legally acquire) the following items:
* Any Windows XP Home or Professional (full installation disk)
* Download Service Pack 2 (http://www.alltheweb.com/) Network Installation Package (if required)
* Download WPA_KILL by searching www.filewatcher.com (http://www.filewatcher.com/) (remove spyware)
* Download RemoveWGA from www.FirewallLeakTester.com (http://www.firewallleaktester.com/tools_list.htm) (remove spyware)
* Download nLite (http://www.nliteos.com/) for free (and make a small donation)
* Download .NET Framework Version 2.0 (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=0856eacb-4362-4b0d-8edd-aab15c5e04f5&displaylang=en) Redistributable Package
* Download RVM XP Hot Fix Package (website)
__* Review other add-ons on that website (http://www.ryanvm.net/msfn/updatepack.html)
* Download Intel's 5000X chipset drivers (http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df-external/filter_results.aspx?strTypes=all&ProductID=816&OSFullName=Windows*+XP+Professional&lang=eng&strOSs=44&submit=Go%21) (thanks to for first publishing)
* Download Intel's 631 xESB chipset SATA drivers (http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df-external/detail_desc.aspx?strstate=live&productid=2487&dwnldid=11207&agr=y&lang=eng&prdmap=2487) (version 15/05/2006 7.4.0.1 005)
* Download ImgBurn (http://www.imgburn.com/) bootable CD burning tool (and make a small donation)
* Download SiSoftware Sandra Light from here (http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail/952306152/1) (benchmarking tool)

Building your custom XP boot disk
The first step is to download all the files into an installation directory (lets say C:\MacXP) on a working Windows box. This might be your currently booting XP on the Mac Pro, or any other modern windows box. I strongly recommend spending a few hours searching through the AddOn's (http://www.ryanvm.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=511) for nLite. These packages allow for Adobe Acrobat Reader, AVG Antivirus, and other free tools to be installed auto-magically in your installation.

Second step is to make a unique directory for each of the Intel device drivers (e.g, C: \MacXP\IntelDriverA), copy the drivers into the respective folders and expand the contents. I recommend

Third step is to install the .NET framework required by nLite.

Fourth step is to install ImgBurn if you don't already have a CD burning tool installed. (I selected ImgBurn because it was free, and it worked for me, even on the crippled SATA drive on my MacPro).

We will use the nLite tool to build the custom bootable cdrom. By following the steps above you have all the modules ready to pass into nLite when it requests it. The nLite installation process is very well described here (http://www.nliteos.com/guides.html) and I recommend you follow its instructions.

When you come up to Integrating the device drivers you MUST install the Intel Drivers you have downloaded. Select the "Insert" tab, followed by the "Multiple Driver Folder". If you followed my suggested directory naming structure, select the "C:\MacXP" folder, and click okay. A window will display all the Intel Drivers. Select All, then Okay. A second window will appear listing driver names in the "Text mode integration options". Select the ESB2 SATA RAID Controller (Server ESB2) entry, and press okay. The window will reappear, click cancel. Confirm that the "Intel, TXT-iaStore_ESB2, HDC, 5.6.2.1 002, 01/1 6/2006" item is present in the list. Click next, and continue following the nLite instructions.

Fifth Step is burn the .IS0 image file generated by nLITE.

Sixth Step is to perform a re-install of Windows XP using your custom boot disk.

Seventh Step is to run SiSoftware Sandra Light software to confirm that you have reasonable hard drive performance that reflects the drives installed in your system.

Party!

*****************

I had to do lots of work since this was an image with links outside of it. But I know this is a hot topic for all. :)

Too much trouble. I'll wait until apple fixes it themselves.

[xvx]

Thank you very much guys.

[G5guy]

Perhaps one of you guys who went thru this can modify the above instructions for the bare minimum to work so it does not seem as confusing. This includes fixing the sound, etc.

[leaknoil]

Doesnt seem to work for me. It does put the CD drive into DMA mode for what its worth though. The SATA drives stay in PIO mode. I end up with two Intel ATA buses and two of eash Primary IDE Channnel and Secondary. Only the buss with the cdrom drive goes into DMA mode.

[The Inevitable]

In case anybody wants it, I put up a mirror of the site here. (http://homepage.mac.com/inev/xp_mirror.htm)

[stewzie10000]

Had a problem with the Windows XP installation stalling at 34 minutes during "Installing Devices" and found the solution. I shut down the computer and unplugged all of my Firewire devices (includes iSight, iPod, disk drives, etc.) and then restarted onto the Windows XP disk. The Mac Pro tried to boot the aborted installation and then restarted the installation. No stall this time, so apparently one or more Firewire devices was causing the trouble. Looking good... finalizing installation now. :)

[apfhex]

Perhaps one of you guys who went thru this can modify the above instructions for the bare minimum to work so it does not seem as confusing. This includes fixing the sound, etc.
I may be getting ahead of myself here (still a while 'till I get my MP), but I believe this is as trimmed down as it gets. Thanks G5guy for typing it all out. :) Obviously these instructions are only to describe how to do it with nLite. If anyone has a different application that they use, it would be cool to hear about.

* Download nLite (http://www.nliteos.com/)
* Download .NET Framework Version 2.0 (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=0856eacb-4362-4b0d-8edd-aab15c5e04f5&displaylang=en) Redistributable Package
* Download Intel's 5000X chipset drivers (http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df-external/filter_results.aspx?strTypes=all&ProductID=816&OSFullName=Windows*+XP+Professional&lang=eng&strOSs=44&submit=Go%21)
* Download Intel's 631 xESB chipset SATA drivers (http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df-external/detail_desc.aspx?strstate=live&productid=2487&dwnldid=11207&agr=y&lang=eng&prdmap=2487) (version 15/05/2006 7.4.0.1 005)

1. Download all the files into an installation directory (lets say C:\MacXP) on a working Windows box. This might be your currently booting XP on the Mac Pro.

2. Make a unique directory for each of the Intel device drivers (e.g, C:\MacXP\IntelDriverA, C:\MacXP\IntelDriverB), copy the drivers into the respective folders and expand the contents.

3. Install the .NET framework required by nLite.

4. We will use the nLite tool to build the custom bootable cdrom. The nLite installation process is very well described here (http://www.nliteos.com/guides.html) and I recommend you follow its instructions.

When you come up to Integrating the device drivers you MUST install the Intel Drivers you have downloaded. Select the "Insert" tab, followed by the "Multiple Driver Folder". If you followed my suggested directory naming structure, select the "C:\MacXP" folder, and click okay. A window will display all the Intel Drivers. Select All, then Okay. A second window will appear listing driver names in the "Text mode integration options". Select the ESB2 SATA RAID Controller (Server ESB2) entry, and press okay. The window will reappear, click cancel. Confirm that the "Intel, TXT-iaStore_ESB2, HDC, 5.6.2.1 002, 01/16/2006" item is present in the list. Click next, and continue following the nLite instructions.

5. Burn the .IS0 image file generated by nLITE.

6. Perform a re-install of Windows XP using your custom boot disk.
Here's what was posted earlier in the thread about fixing the sound after this. Thanks to jlmodell and waremaster.

1. Go to "System Device" (Right click on My Computer, select Properties, then choose Device Manager) and you'll see a yellow mark on a device named "PCI Device". Right click and select Update Driver.

2. Select your Realtek HD audio driver path and go to Directoty "WDM" such as c:\driver\audio\HDAudio\WDM and then click Open.

3. Windows will install Microsoft UAA Driver and install your HD Audio driver automatically.

[AlexBlack]

I have a quick question. When i am having nLite make a new ISO with the drivers for me its not creating a iso file. Its filling a folder with the contents that would have been in the ISO. Do you guys know how to fix that?

[AlexBlack]

Disregard my previous post, sorry guys I am blind. I just didnt see the huge button on the nlite main menu.

[leaknoil]

This doesnt work at all for me. Device manager still reports pio mode on everything but, the dvd drive. I've burned 5 different nlite'd cds and tried four different drive configurations.

Either you need a specfic version of xp or people aren't actually looking to see if they are actually in DMA mode and just assuming they are.

[stingray]

Hi guys!

Works fine for me.

Except that I also had the problem that my Realtek HD audio didn't work at first. I had to go to the Realtek Website and download the drivers. After that it worked fine.

Then I tried to install my Esi RomIO Midi adapater (which also worked before on my MacPro) - however now my Sequencer can't see it anymore although it seems to be correctly installed in the device manager... Strange. Anyway I plan to switch to MacOSX on the long run for the music - latencies are so much lower than under Windows.

Cheers,
Stingray

[Borman]

Anyone having a problem with nLite's progress bar going all the way, but its still on Integrating Drivers? Ill wait it out for a bit, but really, no reason to wait if its a bug of some sort.

[stingray]

Either you need a specfic version of xp or people aren't actually looking to see if they are actually in DMA mode and just assuming they are.

I used a Windows XP SP2 Professional. In my device manager it now shows something like Multi word DMA mode 2 for my HDD.

Cheers,
stingray

[syrianos]

i'm trying to get win xp x64 edition - built 1830 to slistream with sp2 but i get an error that some files aree not copied correctly,
should i just continue?
and why istall the raid drivers and not the ahci ones?

thx

[scratchmaster]

on the xp side of the mac pro.. is there any way to disable the ausio coming for the speaker in the mac pro but yet still have sound coming out of the line out for applications like winamp and so on ??

[Spanky Deluxe]

All my custom cds stall at the "installing devices 34 minutes left".

I have made custom cds with only the SATA driver, SATA and only the xp chipset drivers, and SATA and ALL the chipset drivers.

I give up, hopefully someone will just post a pre-made .iso so on some torrent site :D

Like I said earlier, someone could do a ppf patch file for the iso. That way it can be completely legal and a much smaller download.

[d00d]

Are the chipset drivers even necessary? Couldn't you just get away with just the SATA drivers and let Apple's drivers CD take care of the rest?

[jlmodell]

Are the chipset drivers even necessary? Couldn't you just get away with just the SATA drivers and let Apple's drivers CD take care of the rest?


I suppose if you someone was willing to test they could. Since my hd access speed is now corrected, I don't plan on reformatting until Vista, and only after it's confirmed working, etc etc.

[barber107]

I am going to start building my slipstream and I'll do it without the chipset drivers to see if it still works. This is partially because I cannot find a good link to the drivers and because I want to see if it helps people.

My question is, when you build your own slipstream, is it still necessary to use Apple's driver disk? Or will that mess it up?

Thanks,

Barber

[rick98761]

quick question, can I install this updated XP overtop the old one i have on my macpro, or do I need to do a total format for sata to start working properly?

[egeis]

You cant just install the drivers on a existing bootcamp windows install?

[Mr. Mister]

No, it's some kind of paradox, you can't install SATA drivers from the hard drive that will turn to being SATA once the drivers are installed, so they have to be installed from a disk.

[rick98761]

I have been using clone cd to burn the iso to a disc. It keeps failing at 60%. What have you guys been using to burn the ISO?

[Daspeed]

I have been using clone cd to burn the iso to a disc. It keeps failing at 60%. What have you guys been using to burn the ISO?
I always burn ISO's with this:
http://www.cdburnerxp.se/

[AlexBlack]

Thanks guys, i got it working as well. I am using XP pro SP2, but im at school so i dont remember the build.

[barber107]

Without the chipset driver (just the sata driver) I don't think it worked...I am still in PIO only mode. It seemed quicker, but I am not sure. I am going to test before I do anthing and I post the results.

Since I am pretty sure it isn't working I want to try it with the chipset driver now! Will somebody (who has fixed their's) send me the name of the exact file they used for the chipset driver or a link directly to it? The link takes you to a search sesults page and I am not sure the files on that page are correct.

Thanks,

Barber

[Origin]

XP Pro SP2 French with integrated drivers DONE ;)

I'll try soon (maybe tomorrow, when my MacPro will surely ARRIVE AT DESTINATION) ...

[chrismmx]

XP Pro SP2 French with integrated drivers DONE ;)

I'll try soon (maybe tomorrow, when my MacPro will surely ARRIVE AT DESTINATION) ...

Don't ever forget to tell me that!:D

j'ai commandé le mien aujourd'hui. mais il faut que j'attends trois semaine!!!!:eek:

[Origin]

Don't ever forget to tell me that!:D

j'ai commandé le mien aujourd'hui. mais il faut que j'attends trois semaine!!!!:eek:


Sans doute beaucoup moins, apparamment les X1900 XT commencent déjà a être envoyées !!!! ;)

[topgunn]

I have my external floppy drive and a disk loaded with the SATA drivers so I am going to try loading the drivers that way (when it asks you to hit F6 to install 3rd party drivers). Has anyone actually tried this yet? I know there has been some theoretical discussion on the subject but I don't think anyon has actually tested it yet. It should do basically the same thing as slipstreaming the CD.

[Mr. Mister]

Sans doute beaucoup moins, apparamment les X1900 XT commencent déjà a être envoyées !!!! ;)

Not much longer, apparently the X1900 XT cards have already started shipping?

(please tell me I'm not completely hopeless at French)

[Origin]

Yes, it's the "native" procedure with a stock Windows XP CD ... so try and let us know ! A good way to get confirmation that this method is working in any case ;)

[Origin]

Not much longer, apparently the X1900 XT cards have already started shipping?

(please tell me I'm not completely hopeless at French)

Great translation ;)
I hope my english is as good as your french understanding ;)

[amin]

Anyone know if the latest Vista release has the issue with slow SATA performance on Mac Pro in Boot Camp?

[chrismmx]

Sans doute beaucoup moins, apparamment les X1900 XT commencent déjà a être envoyées !!!! ;)


I don’t even commander a 1900XT, I have just commanded the kit Bt+APE, it takes 3weeks! Can’t believe it! I will buy a X1950XTX PC version to use in Windows, 7300gt for the mac OSX sufficient to me. By the way ,I think there is no problem to use a PC version graphic card in Macpro just for Windows, no?:(

[topgunn]

By the way ,I think there is no problem to use a PC version graphic card in Macpro just for Windows, no?:(
Oui

[G5guy]

Hey - I don't know why this wasn't mentioned before:

1) Take a floppy drive and hook it up to the 2nd IDE connection. Even if you had to buy one they are ~ $10.

2) Use it with the drivers on a floppy disk.

The reason is I don't think Windows will work thru a USB external floppy drive.

Possible?

[topgunn]

Hey - I don't know why this wasn't mentioned before:

1) Take a floppy drive and hook it up to the 2nd IDE connection. Even if you had to buy one they are ~ $10.

2) Use it with the drivers on a floppy disk.

The reason is I don't think Windows will work thru a USB external floppy drive.

Possible?
Floppy drives don't use IDE and Windows does see external USB floppy drives. At least it does on non-Apple hardware.

[chrismmx]

Oui
merci:rolleyes:

[G5guy]

Floppy drives don't use IDE and Windows does see external USB floppy drives. At least it does on non-Apple hardware.

Well, then now I know why. :)

However, if windows does see USB by the time the F6 option is available, then a usb memory stick should work. That would be even easier.

[aiongiant]

ive tried a usb stick before for sata drivers on my pc but i didn't work before... maybe i did something wrong but yea it didn't see anything i looks for A:/ i think rather than anything else?

[Origin]

In fact, WinXP install see the usb floppy JUST BECAUSE the legacy floppy "A:" is "simulated" by the BIOS. So, the WinXP don't even know usb devices ...

[topgunn]

ive tried a usb stick before for sata drivers on my pc but i didn't work before... maybe i did something wrong but yea it didn't see anything i looks for A:/ i think rather than anything else?
Thats just it. The USB stick identifies itself as a fixed disk whereas the USB floppy identifies itself as removable media thus the USB stick gets assigned a drive letter of D, E, F, etc while the floppy gets A or B. The Windows install only looks at A and B after you press F6.

[I'mAMac]

Does anyone have any idea when the apple drivers may come out for mac pro?

[pipomolo42]

Thats just it. The USB stick identifies itself as a fixed disk whereas the USB floppy identifies itself as removable media thus the USB stick gets assigned a drive letter of D, E, F, etc while the floppy gets A or B. The Windows install only looks at A and B after you press F6.
Hi,

Actually, I think it depends on the bios and wether the usb disk is partitionned or not.

A usb stick with no partition table (whole device seen as a fat16) will generally be seen as a floppy, whereas a usb stick with one single partition in its table (most common these days) will be seen as a hard disk.