X11 Beta 3, Mac OS X 10.2.5 Seeded, iWorks, Tidbits...

[MacRumors]

Apple has posted (http://www.apple.com/macosx/x11/download/) X11 Beta 3 which features bug fixes and enhancements.

As well, Apple has started seeds of Mac OS X 10.2.5. ThinkSecret (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/macosx1025.html) is covering the highlights.<>

17 Inch Powerbooks are finally shipping.

Thinksecret also reports (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/tsnotes.html) that the long rumored Apple Office Suite may very well be in the works:

If you're waiting for AppleWorks 7, look instead for iWorks, coming from Apple later this year. Sources said that iWorks will consist of a word processing application tentatively called "Document," Apple's Keynote presentation software, a spreadsheet application, and a database app.

[nuckinfutz]

Version of what an Office Suite should be like.

I wonder if they've written everything from the ground up or if they've secretly aquired some IP.

Judging from Keynote his Office Suite should leverage some key technology in OSX.

Bring it on Apple.

[MetallicPenguin]

yeah I hope "document" is cool and I want to see 10.3

[Kid Red]

I look forward to this rumored iWorks. Apple admitted they would be doing a lot more software starting this year. The iWorks sounds like 3-4 apps plus the rumored video conferencing and also the music app, Apple will have some tempting apps to attract switchers.

[sanford]

I just don't want it to cost $300. How about $79 per app or $199 for a bundle of all 4.

[Cecret]

Even if it is a $300+ app package, it will still be worth it, given the cost of the ms alternative. And I'm sure we will see package/bundle deals with purchase of other hardware or os software.

[sanford]

And I don't mind paying $129 for 10.3, either. But my .mac renewal is going to come up at about the same time, so unless they are offer some sort of buy-and-save promotion for the both -- like buy 10.3 pay $59 for .mac new or renewal -- then I will have to do the .mac renewal and forego 10.3 for a month or so.

I have too many freaking annual subscriptions that all come up at about the same time.

[Snowy_River]

I hope that they come up with a better name than 'iWorks'. While that would be okay for a successor to AppleWorks, if it's going to be a new suite of applications it should have a better non-Works name.

Just my thoughts....

[Computer_Phreak]

If I were Apple, I'd bundle iWorks

Also, it sounds too much like MS Works

Hopefully Document will be a clear winner over Word, like Keynote over Powerpoint

[Mr.Hey]

Insanely Great (http://www.insanely-great.com/news.php?id=1832)
Macbidouille.com (http://www.macbidouille.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2003-03-17#5017)

Apple is close to finalizing production of its PowerPC 970-based daughtercards, according to unsourced rumors reported by MacBidouille.

The article says that Cupertino has offered the manufacture of the card for tender to Taiwanese firms. Two firms will reportedly be retained. If accurate, this suggests Apple intend to build very large quantities of the microprocessor card and do not intend to experience supply problems.

Apple has also finalized its blueprints of the PPC970 motherboards, according to the article. MacBidouille says that the 'pro' version of the mobo will be much longer and narrower than the boards we're currently familiar with, which suggests a new case design for the 970-based Macs may be in the works.

[Cecret]

They should focus on their spreadsheet app more than wordprocessor. I know so many people who must own ms office just because of excell. Furthermore, excell dominates the business world so apple just needs to find a way to advertise the benefits of their version.

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by Mr.Hey
Insanely Great (http://www.insanely-great.com/news.php?id=1832)
Macbidouille.com (http://www.macbidouille.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2003-03-17#5017)

good news keeps on coming.
iWorks would be nice, you know what we all need?

A $300 Total-Apple bundle software suite. Everything from iLife to the new iWorks.

Maybe this can be out for MWNY! :D

[MacFan25]

Originally posted by MrMacman
A $300 Total-Apple bundle software suite. Everything from iLife to the new iWorks.

Maybe this can be out for MWNY! :D
That would be great! :D

And, I also agree that Apple needs to make a good spreadsheet app.

[NavyIntel007]

Originally posted by sanford
I just don't want it to cost $300. How about $79 per app or $199 for a bundle of all 4.

I agree,. It needs to be agressivly underpriced to compete with the legacy MS office.

[vollspacken]

Originally posted by Macrumors
Thinksecret also reports that the long rumored Apple Office Suite may very well be in the works:

...I REALLY hope so!

I currently use thinkfree office and I'm totally dissadisfied, since you can't use foot- and endnotes. TF-write therefore is more or less useless. You want to import files, forget it!!! TFO can't deal with footnotes... AAAARGHHHH!!!

I still have a student copy of MS office 2001 for os9 that I cannot use because I'm a osX-only user since I bought my 15" tiBook:D :mad:

I'm not willing to spend a sh**load of money for MS word for X (...and I don't want to pirate either), and hope that apple comes finally up with a descend word processor (pleeeeaaaaaase:( ), until then, I will be using TextEdit

vSpacken

[macktheknife]

I welcome any new software Apple releases, but I hope the introduction of an Apple office suite will not encourage Microsoft to stop developing MS Office for Mac. Most of us Mac users who work in a PC environment need MS Office compatibility when we're working on our Word, Excel, and PowerPoint files.

Yes, I am fully aware that alternatives to all three applications exist, and I am also fully aware that those alternatives can read existing MS Office files. Nevertheless, I find it hard to believe that my VBA-heavy Excel spreadsheets and extensively-formated Word and PowerPoint files will render flawlessly on a non-MS Office suite.

[Mattski]

Surely the 'Database App' is no suprise, given that File Maker Pro is the best cosumer grade database on the market.

I don't think Apple would be investing resources to create a product, when they already have a superior product.

So it could be a bundle of Keynote, File Maker Pro, 'Document??' and a spready of some description.

[Mr.Hey]

Originally posted by Cecret
They should focus on their spreadsheet app more than wordprocessor. I know so many people who must own ms office just because of excell. Furthermore, excell dominates the business world so apple just needs to find a way to advertise the benefits of their version.

You do realize that this is a cross-platform application. And if Apple decides to create the entire office suite and manages to make a better product than MS... it will of course also affect the little scenario that you described.

[ozubahn]

I really hope Apple can come with a better name than Document. If they don't, then the first question will be: Can Document open Word documents, or just Document documents? (better check the Document help documents) That is going to be customer support hell. People have enough trouble with the important computing concepts as it is, without Apple giving everything the same name.

[SoonToGetAMac]

Also, iWorks is bad grammar. With a noun, like Tunes, its fine. iWorks just sounds bad.

[rman2008]

Originally posted by Macrumors
Apple has posted (http://www.apple.com/macosx/x11/download/) X11 Beta 3 which features bug fixes and enhancements.

As well, Apple has started seeds of Mac OS X 10.2.5. ThinkSecret (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/macosx1025.html) is covering the highlights.<>

17 Inch Powerbooks are finally shipping.

Thinksecret also reports (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/tsnotes.html) that the long rumored Apple Office Suite may very well be in the works:

If Apple names a word processing app named "Document". That would be enough to make me switch to windows. I thought "Mail" was bad.

-ray (am i the youngest member of macrumors ,13 years old?

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Mr.Hey
You do realize that this is a cross-platform application. And if Apple decides to create the entire office suite and manages to make a better product than MS... it will of course also affect the little scenario that you described.

isn't that the point he was making though? what do you mean by cross platform?

This X11 thing is cool, i am glad to see them making progress on it. heck, it's gotten more attention (by them), it looks like, than safari.

KDE 3.1 came out for fink just recently, and i compiled it overnight... beautiful; no more stinking freezes, and all the apps work right with X11 (they weren't). fabulous stuff!

i'm definitely looking forward to 10.2.5 too. finally something decent on the rumor scene!

[kay]

Originally posted by rman2008
If Apple names a word processing app named "Document". That would be enough to make me switch to windows. I thought "Mail" was bad.

-ray (am i the youngest member of macrumors ,13 years old?

Ah, what a smart kid :).

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by rman2008
If Apple names a word processing app named "Document". That would be enough to make me switch to windows. I thought "Mail" was bad.

-ray (am i the youngest member of macrumors ,13 years old?

good luck with windows, lol. isn't that like saying, "if my girlfriend dyes her hair red, i'm going to shoot myself?" i mean, you're wlecome to, but that kind of smarts isn't typical of Apple users. You do realize that you'll still be able to use MS word if you really want to, right?

[Nermal]

I don't think they'll call it Document. With Keynote, you make presentations, but the app isn't called Presentation. If Apple use the same naming scheme then their word processor may be called Letter, or Report, or some other type of document you can make with it.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by SoonToGetAMac
Also, iWorks is bad grammar. With a noun, like Tunes, its fine. iWorks just sounds bad. Tunes and Works are both nouns, dude. it's just your taste. don't jump on them for "grammar;" there is no rule for what you can put an "i" in front of in the English language. this is like that whole "Think Different" grammar debate:rolleyes: lol :D ;)
Originally posted by Nermal
I don't think they'll call it Document. With Keynote, you make presentations, but the app isn't called Presentation. If Apple use the same naming scheme then their word processor may be called Letter, or Report, or some other type of document you can make with it.
how about if they called it "Wedding Invitation"?

[Rincewind42]

Originally posted by Nermal
I don't think they'll call it Document. With Keynote, you make presentations, but the app isn't called Presentation. If Apple use the same naming scheme then their word processor may be called Letter, or Report, or some other type of document you can make with it.

How about Thesis and Ledger? =)

[yzedf]

Originally posted by Cecret
Even if it is a $300+ app package, it will still be worth it, given the cost of the ms alternative. And I'm sure we will see package/bundle deals with purchase of other hardware or os software.

If it costs $300+ it would sell like crap. It is guaranteed that it will not remain compatible with MS Office for very long. We are already hearing that MS Office 2003 (all hail XML) will not share files with other versions of MS Office. Forcing an upgrade of Office, and oh yeah, it will only run on win2k or XP (for the Windows version).

Apple needs to put effort into OOo (OpenOffice.org) instead of trying to re-invent the office suite of software.

[Cecret]

Quote:
You do realize that this is a cross-platform application. And if Apple decides to create the entire office suite and manages to make a better product than MS... it will of course also affect the little scenario that you described.

All I am saying is that they can't overlook the importance of their spreadsheet app and it's importance in terms of getting people to completely ditch MS office.

One or two good apps like keynote and a possilbe document can't get people to switch from office. The chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

[rman2008]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
good luck with windows, lol. isn't that like saying, "if my girlfriend dyes her hair red, i'm going to shoot myself?" i mean, you're wlecome to, but that kind of smarts isn't typical of Apple users. You do realize that you'll still be able to use MS word if you really want to, right?

I'd like to think so. Why do u think apple would be introducing their own product line of applications like Safari, Keynote, and unfortunately "Document". I'll tell u why, Microsoft will probably be backing out pretty soon. Internet Explorer (which im using right now), PowerPoint, and Word will most likely be gone. And by the way, I wouldnt leave the mac if anything happened, i would use my mom's IICI, if all else failed.

-ray

[MacBoy88]

Originally posted by rman2008
If Apple names a word processing app named "Document". That would be enough to make me switch to windows. I thought "Mail" was bad.

-ray (am i the youngest member of macrumors ,13 years old?

You maybe, but I am 14?

Power to the little Mac ones !!!

[foniks2020]

Originally posted by rman2008
If Apple names a word processing app named "Document". That would be enough to make me switch to windows. I thought "Mail" was bad.

-ray (am i the youngest member of macrumors ,13 years old?

So 'Word' is somehow better? or 'Office' ? Even 'Windows' is a crappy piece of nomenclature...

'Document' is something you do... as in:

"I'm going to document the history of native americans in the south west from 800 A.D. to 1200 A.D."

...you can't 'word' anything to my knowledge, neither can you office anything either, though Office is at least a place you go to do things.

13 is old enough to form opinions so I'll give you that... ;-p well, i get to have one too...

[rman2008]

Originally posted by foniks2020
So 'Word' is somehow better? or 'Office' ? Even 'Windows' is a crappy piece of nomenclature...

'Document' is something you do... as in:

"I'm going to document the history of native americans in the south west from 800 A.D. to 1200 A.D."

...you can't 'word' anything to my knowledge, neither can you office anything either, though Office is at least a place you go to do things.

13 is old enough to form opinions so I'll give you that... ;-p well, i get to have one too...

lol, im sure document will be a good application. im not doubting apple with that. but could i at least persuade you, that document is not THAT good of a name. and uhh ive always been told i have a large vocab, but tell me what nonmenclature is?

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by yzedf
Apple needs to put effort into OOo (OpenOffice.org) instead of trying to re-invent the office suite of software.

I doubt they can take OpenOffice's codebase without some GNU mess. i think their Unix release was from BSD, which i don't think has to do with the GNU GPL.

I'd like to see them reinvent this, like they seem to have done with Keynote. you don't usually innovate by appropriating others' code base.

about the XML-based office 2003/2004, i'll bet apple can write an interpreter and encoder for it and release it as an update over the internet... i don't see how changing is that big of a deal. i could be way off, but i bet they are looking ahead at what MS is going to do and can sort of facilitate the program to be update ready. who knows. I'll just keep my eyes out.

update on X11b3: i ran it with KDE 3.1, just wonderful. i love that cmd-q works finally, lol.

[nuckinfutz]

Apple needs to put effort into OOo (OpenOffice.org) instead of trying to re-invent the office suite of software.

That's the same method of thinking that people had about the rumored Apple Browser. Everyone thought that they would use Mozilla. Didn't happen because of too much Cross Platform junk.

You may find Openoffice to be the same. If it's too fat. Apple won't use it. Besides there has been rumors that Apples had a very capable word processor for years that was never released. Not all R&D is spent on shipping products of course. I think we'll all be suprised ...once again.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by rman2008
I'd like to think so. Why do u think apple would be introducing their own product line of applications like Safari, Keynote, and unfortunately "Document". I'll tell u why, Microsoft will probably be backing out pretty soon. Internet Explorer (which im using right now), PowerPoint, and Word will most likely be gone.

well, even if they do pull out, you'll have office X. and i can't imagine MS backing out of the mac division. you do realize they have the most apple programmers of any company in the world except for Apple itself? they would have to lay off a LOT of very productive, revenue-generating employees. Gates is a greedy, pushy jerk. he's not as arrogant as steve jobs. i don't think he'd just leave a good market to prove something. And by the way, I wouldnt leave the mac if anything happened, i would use my mom's IICI, if all else failed.

-ray

good call! that's hilarious, lol.

[thekaiser]

Honestly whatever they call it I don't care. The important thing is that it is a solid application/suite. If it is anything like keynote, I think we can expect to see some good things. As far as money is concerned...I think most Mac users will pay for it just as they pay for Office now. Obviously the cheaper the better, but I am a believer in the fact that you get what you pay for. That is why I bought my Mac in the first place. I don't mind paying a little more for a better product. I am just excited to wait and see what happens. Either way this is great news for the Apple community.

[DavPeanut]

I'm 14 and 9 months.

The name Document sux. How about Type.

[Nebrie]

Originally posted by rman2008
If Apple names a word processing app named "Document". That would be enough to make me switch to windows. I thought "Mail" was bad.

-ray (am i the youngest member of macrumors ,13 years old?

Umm, thats why it's a *tentative* name. Go look it up.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by foniks2020
So 'Word' is somehow better? or 'Office' ? Even 'Windows' is a crappy piece of nomenclature...
Windows, i think, is just fine in its nomeclature. the word very accurately describes the different interfaces that you work with in Windows. you even use windows in OS X :eek: :eek:

...you can't 'word' anything to my knowledge, neither can you office anything either, though Office is at least a place you go to do things.


you can't "iTunes," or even "Tunes" anything either. i honestly missed that part where you have to use a verb as your application name... when was that established? I don't even think that "document" would be used as a verb. it's not about documenting things at all, but rather about making documents. and word is for making words. Apple's Mail app is for making emails. on the other hand, Mozilla isn't for mozillaing, or even making mozillas. and chimera isn't for chimeraing or making chimeras–i dunno about Camino... maybe it is for Caminoing :eek: :p

[nodmonkey]

Does anyone suspect that if this new office suite of applications really does have benefits over MS Office then it may be ported to Windows?

Initial reaction is obviously "no" because it would have no power to attract switchers (to Apple hardware and other software/services) if available on both Windows and MacOS. But it would give Apple presence in the PC world over and above just Quicktime, which could always stir interest and inquiry into the company. Just to give Apple more market presence, really. Not to mention the market that exists and could be exploited for a cheaper Office program that is compatible (mostly) with MS Office.

I think it would be a challenge indeed to develop the suite for a whole other varied (by its mix of hardwares and uses) platform, but could very well pay off by sales and crucial setting of company reputation in the Windoze-user world. But only pay off if it really was sweeter than MS Office, pretty intuitive to the new user (or the MS Office switcher), fast and stable.

Best of luck, Apple.

[josepht]

Originally posted by DavPeanut
I'm 14 and 9 months.

The name Document sux. How about Type. I thought about Write. However, I think the one listed in an above post, Ledger, is best.

[robotrenegade]

What is x11? want does it do?

[totally_fly]

I like Thesis

[cubist]

"Ledger" would be the spreadsheet.

I think the name of the word processor should be "Chronosymplastic Infindibulum." :-)

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by robotrenegade
What is x11? want does it do?

It's an XFree86 server. it allows you to run unported linux apps inside of OS X...

if you are interested:
The Fink Project. (http://fink.sourceforge.net)
Apple's X11 info (http://www.apple.com/macosx/x11).

[josepht]

Originally posted by rman2008
and uhh ive always been told i have a large vocab, but tell me what nonmenclature is?

Nomenclature is like a naming system. I'm sure you've studied Carolus Linaeus' scientific naming-system, Binomial Nomenclature, in Science.

In case anyone cares, I'm fifteen years, six months old.

[tcolling]

Originally posted by SoonToGetAMac
Also, iWorks is bad grammar. With a noun, like Tunes, its fine. iWorks just sounds bad.

Works of art? Waterworks? He performed great works?

Works can be a noun.

On a related note, when did antique become a verb? My mother and her friends say she goes "antiquing" all the time.

[MorganX]

iWorks will be nice as long as the apps are more like Keynote than Appleworks.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by cubist
I think the name of the word processor should be "Chronosymplastic Infindibulum." :-)

dude, that is awesome! that would be soo linux though. Apple takes itself too seriously to do that. I would love to see some longwinded name we could refer to by its initials though, just to piss with all the people sick of the iNames and so on.

[benjaminpg]

Originally posted by foniks2020
...you can't 'word' anything to my knowledge, neither can you office anything either
Sure you can 'word' something. I worded the sentence this way, for instance. Granted, it is much more common to see it used as a noun.

Remember that every word processing document has words, (well for most purposes.)

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by foniks2020

...you can't 'word' anything to my knowledge, neither can you office anything either, though Office is at least a place you go to do things.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
office

\Of`fice\, v. t. To perform, as the duties of an office; to discharge. [Obs.] --Shak.

i'm sorry, i saw benjaminpg's comment and i couldn't help it :);)

[mangoman]

Originally posted by josepht
[i]In case anyone cares, I'm fifteen years, six months old.

Ahhh, youth. Back when the MONTHS actually mattered... How charming.

[zulgand04]

Originally posted by sanford

I have too many freaking annual subscriptions that all come up at about the same time.

i totally agree, all my magazine subscriptions also need renewing then, but i'll still renew .mac and get 10.3 cant wait.



im 17 o yea:D

[shadowfax]

about 10.3, i will bet you a good bit they won't charge you another 129$ for an upgrade. 10.1 was hardly a feasible OS. you were kind of forced to upgrade if you had it. 10.2 is more stable than just about any home user can ask for. there will be minimal coercion to upgrade like 10.2, i think. i expect a 50-70$ price tag.

[kansaigaijin]

Public Works™, the new free open source multi-platform productivity suite!

words you don't know, use sherlock to look them up. one of the advantages of on-line discussion, noone can see you reach for your dictionary. Don't embarras yourself needlessly.


Kansaigaijin, 43 years, 10 months old.

[bikertwin]

Originally posted by kansaigaijin
Don't embarras yourself needlessly.


Hey, you're pretty funny.

Originally posted by kansaigaijin
Kansaigaijin, 43 years, 10 months old.

And Thank God there's someone else here who isn't a teeny bopper.

[BubbaTAC]

I think apple created safari because they were sttuck with slower procs (we all admit it) and it forced them to innovate to provide a browser with usable speed. Quartz Extreme was the same idea, if we had pentium 4s, they could use whatever crappy code they wanted and it would feel fine...I hope the office suite is also innovative, but I wonn't bash Office. Its not perfect. I love Excel, think word is ok, and would switch from powerpoint if I could, but it is the standard...look at the questions everyone asks when they are considering switching. I just switched to apple and love it, but if .doc and .xls support isn't perfect, then I will have to go back. At least now. Maybe if windows starts using standard XML, or if all of a sudden all offices start only using rtf or Quark then I could stay...I wish I could use Nisus, its great and the guys are wonderful guys, but I need to be realisitic...

Maybe I'll start...maybe I'll write my thesis in html...or not ;)

[AllenPSU]

iWorks would be great as long as it is compatible with Microsoft Office file formats.

I really would like to see Safari finished up first though. I am sick and tired of all the problems I have with other browsers.

I hope that 10.2.x isn't going to be too expensive. I guess it would depend on what they add to the package. I would gladly pay $130 or so if it included a one time upgrade to the FAXstf (Name?).

On that note, does anyone know if apple internal modem in the Quicksilvers have updatable firmware? Secondly, if it does, can it be updated to v.92?

[Wonder Boy]

Originally posted by MrMacman
good news keeps on coming.
iWorks would be nice, you know what we all need?

A $300 Total-Apple bundle software suite. Everything from iLife to the new iWorks.

Maybe this can be out for MWNY! :D


when is MWNY?

[nuckinfutz]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
about 10.3, i will bet you a good bit they won't charge you another 129$ for an upgrade. 10.1 was hardly a feasible OS. you were kind of forced to upgrade if you had it. 10.2 is more stable than just about any home user can ask for. there will be minimal coercion to upgrade like 10.2, i think. i expect a 50-70$ price tag.

Apple didn't get 4 Billion in the bank by being a charity. I'd expect 10.3 to to be a full $129 and have the necessary new features to entice many 10.2 users to upgrade. Expect one 10.x release per year and that release will but $129. The thing is it's going to be difficult for Apple to entice more users to upgrade as 10.2 is fairly solid and users won't be as apt to switch.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by vollspacken

I still have a student copy of MS office 2001 for os9 that I cannot use because I'm a osX-only user since I bought my 15" tiBook:D :mad:

I'm not willing to spend a sh**load of money for MS word for X (...and I don't want to pirate either), and hope that apple comes finally up with a descend word processor (pleeeeaaaaaase:( ), until then, I will be using TextEdit

I have MS Office 98, and I run almost exclusively OS X (I honestly can't remember the last time that I booted into OS 9). Office 98 runs just fine in classic mode. Are you saying that Office 2001 doesn't? And if that's not what you're saying, then why aren't you using Office 2001?

[DeusOmnis]

I doubt apple can afford to create an application to compete with office without charging a decent amount of money for it. Especially since if you want them to continue supporting it, they need to keep getting money for it. I'm positive it's not going to be coming free on the new machines like iLife, but,... i dunno


As far as the names, naming it Document would be way past... everything. They need to pick a good name. Like it or not, a name represents and application.

[coolsoldier]

I used Office 98 in Classic for some time, and finally got Office X. I HATE Office X.
(a)It's ugly. Uglier than Office 98, which doesn't even match the OS.
(b)It doesn't use system services. If they were going to make an office suite for OS X, why wouldn't they make use of all the free functionality off of the "Services" menu?!?
(c)It's not customizable. I've gotten pretty used to being able to modify the interfaces of OS X programs to my liking with interface builder, and with Office X, I can't do that.

Give me those three things, and I'll pay as much for iWorks as they charge for office (assuming It's compatible with office documents).

That said, for the sake of the mac platform I hope office x continues to exist.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by nuckinfutz
Apple didn't get 4 Billion in the bank by being a charity.
nice truism.
I'd expect 10.3 to to be a full $129 and have the necessary new features to entice many 10.2 users to upgrade. If you say so. Expect one 10.x release per year and that release will but $129. What are you going on? they did it once, therefore it's canon, they are going to do it forever and ever, glory be to the father SJ, his son SW, and the spirit of Apple? meh!The thing is it's going to be difficult for Apple to entice more users to upgrade as 10.2 is fairly solid and users won't be as apt to switch.
that's what i said, dude. i don't get what you were trying to say at all now.

[240vac]

Since its got everything you need for an office, I think it should be called iKea .... :-).

[vollspacken]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Are you saying that Office 2001 doesn't? And if that's not what you're saying, then why aren't you using Office 2001?

...because i don't want os9 on my computer when I can have osX (office would be my only non-osX application). that's the reason why I bought thinkfree office in the first place, but it's so horrible that I actually think about installing os9 on my external FW-hd again, in order to finish my senior paper.

BTW, I don't care, what they call the office suite - iWord, Document, iStink or iPoo, whatever!!! - I just want it to be good...:)

vSpacken

[knoxer]

Well, since people are posting their age, I thought I'd mention that I'm 23 years-364 days-23 hours old :)

One more hour!!! Woo Hoo ;)

Oh, and a new Apple office suite would ROCK!

[elo]

Personally, I think "Document" is a good name, even a very good name. I'm a business user and cringe over "cutsey" names. Document states very clearly what the application does and it's very no nonsense about it. It also has a serious, hefty sound to it, like it has some power. I'm guessing that this name will stick, and that "iWorks" is for internal use only.

A couple of other thoughts: While I agree with the idea that something like iLife should be Mac-only, there's much greater need (and even more perceived need) for standardization among office suites. If Apple can truly surpass MS Office (and despite some of the issues we all have with Office, that won't be easy to do), it should consider doing it cross-platform. At the very least, if the suite is good enough, the *possibility* that it could go cross-platform might give Microsoft some incentive to keep Apple happy. Along the same lines, Apple should consider using the .doc format as standard and making a major effort to see that document formatting is preserved accurately if opened in Word. If there is even a chance that a document I send for business purposes won't look correct on the recipient's machine, then I can't consider the program. And I think many other users will face this dilemma. Finally, it and other Apple programs should be relentlessly Dock-aware. Microsoft's Mac division has done this very well but Apple, oddly, has not.

I'm looking forward to iWorks (or whatever it's called), but I'm going to have to be convinced to use it.

elo

[nuckinfutz]

What are you going on? they did it once, therefore it's canon, they are going to do it forever and ever, glory be to the father SJ, his son SW, and the spirit of Apple? meh!

I tend to believer Apple is fairly consistent with OSX. Although they've had relatively few 10.x releases they've all been full pop.
I'm just trying to temper any thought that Apple will be doing anyone "favors" by making 10.3 less than full price. It sets a dangerous precendent in which users who don't feel like the upgrade is "worth" 129 will be quite vocal.

that's what i said, dude. i don't get what you were trying to say at all now.

Yes we said the same thing. I however feel like Apple will still charge $129. There are plenty of 10.1.x users who skipped Jaguar. Sure Apple could offer tiered pricing but that's yet another SKU to keep track of.

At any rate it'll be interesting to see what happens. 10. Betas should be out within the next Month and a half. Apple will have some suprises come shipping time.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by nuckinfutz
I tend to believer Apple is fairly consistent with OSX. Although they've had relatively few 10.x releases they've all been full pop.
I'm just trying to temper any thought that Apple will be doing anyone "favors" by making 10.3 less than full price. It sets a dangerous precendent in which users who don't feel like the upgrade is "worth" 129 will be quite vocal.
OK, so it's not an arguable disagreement, we pretty much disagree on principle. i still don;t think that apple has enough OS X history to be sure of it yet. we'll see, yep.Originally posted by knoxer
Well, since people are posting their age, I thought I'd mention that I'm 23 years-364 days-23 hours old :)

One more hour!!! Woo Hoo ;)

Oh, and a new Apple office suite would ROCK! happy birthday, man!

[edenwaith]

So might they each be simply dubbed something like this:

Document
Spreadsheet
Database
Keynote

or maybe the 'i' theme will remain

iDoc
iCalc
iBase

Think there might be a Windows version of this? I doubt it, but it would be kind of cool if they did make a Windows (or better yet, a Linux) version to attract PC customers.

I think the most attractive part to AppleWorks is the low price. 6 apps for less than $80 (or $40 for educational customers). I hope they keep that low pricing, but if Keynote alone costs $99, then I doubt that a new suite will be similarly low priced. However, if they can keep it below $200, then that would be good, or as one person suggested, price each one at $79, but bundle them together for $200. This would keep it lower than MS Office normally.

I was also hoping for a new image processor, but that might not happen.

All and all, AW does most of what I want, but here are a few things I'd like to see.

Mouse scrolling (works in OS 9, but not OS X for some reason)
Exporting spreadsheets to HTML
Integration of the database with CGI/Perl or PHP...now THAT would be sweet.
New menu icons -- to give it a new, fresh look.

[edenwaith]

Originally posted by mangoman
Ahhh, youth. Back when the MONTHS actually mattered... How charming.

...and I'm 799,286,400 seconds old! Give or take a few hundred seconds.

[ColoJohnBoy]

I'm glad Apple is taking the iWorks step. I hope it's compatible with MS Office docs, but with greater ease than AppleWorks. I've been using Office X for too long - It's a fine program, but I'd rather give money to Apple than to Microsoft.

With 10.3 Panther, Apple should wait awhile. Working at the Apple Store I heard countless gripes from people about having to shell out $130 for the latest and greatest. The should set a date past the one year for Jaguar - that way Panther will probably be better received.

And good about the 17" PowerBooks. Hopefully this means they'll introduce the new 15" PB soon :)

[nuckinfutz]

ColoJohnBoy-

When did Jaguar actually ship. I know Apple released a Press release last July but did Jaguar actually ship in July?

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by nuckinfutz
ColoJohnBoy-

When did Jaguar actually ship. I know Apple released a Press release last July but did Jaguar actually ship in July?

it was in stores august 24th

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
It's an XFree86 server. it allows you to run unported linux apps inside of OS X...

if you are interested:
The Fink Project. (http://fink.sourceforge.net)
Apple's X11 info (http://www.apple.com/macosx/x11).
More correctly, it allows you to run app's written to the X Window GUI to run on OS X. They still either have to be ported to/compiled for Darwin/OS X or be run off a Unix/Linux box with your OS X as a remote display.

I use X11 all day long, mainly for ClearCase (a software version control nightmare - I so miss CVS!) tools running on big Sun iron somewhere in the server dungeon.

I also can run the RedHat GUI tools to configure my Linux web server when I don't feel like using the comand line.

Speaking of which - are there any Linux geeks here that know if you can make X11 host a GNOME or KDE desktop from a remote Linux box. I can get individual app's to come up, but trying to run "gnome-session" generates some error like, "Only one WM can be running at a time." I assume that the X11 app (X Server) is reporting that it's window manager is running already. We use Exceed on Windows at work and you can tell Exceed to use the WM from the Unix box, or to run it's own.

[AhmedFaisal]

Hopefully Bluetooth in 10.2.5 will be expanded with functionality & drivers for PCMCIA Bluetooth Cards. I think a lot of owners of pre-Al Powerbooks like me are waiting for that. I hate this dumb USB Dongle, I want to use my 3com PCMCIA Bluetooth Card with retractable antenna in my Powerbook G4 Pismo (Powerlogix modified)
Cheers,

Ahmed

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
Speaking of which - are there any Linux geeks here that know if you can make X11 host a GNOME or KDE desktop from a remote Linux box. I can get individual app's to come up, but trying to run "gnome-session" generates some error like, "Only one WM can be running at a time." I assume that the X11 app (X Server) is reporting that it's window manager is running already. We use Exceed on Windows at work and you can tell Exceed to use the WM from the Unix box, or to run it's own.

you should be able to, i think. i don't know about the remote part, but you need to adjust your .xinitrc (or make one) that looks like this:

source /sw/bin/init.sh
quartz-wm --only-proxy
/sw/bin/startkde

of course you can get your init.sh from wherever you have one, but you have to start quartz-wm as a proxy or it will conflict with your other wm. alternately, you can just *not* open quartz wm at all, but you don't get any of those faster perks.

i could be way off, but you should be able to run your KDE or GNOME from just about anywhere on X11.

a screenshot, sorry for distorting the page:

http://deskmod.com/files/ssmac/files/KBeautiful.jpg

[themadchemist]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by nodmonkey
[B]Does anyone suspect that if this new office suite of applications really does have benefits over MS Office then it may be ported to Windows?

Initial reaction is obviously "no" because it would have no power to attract switchers (to Apple hardware and other software/services) if available on both Windows and MacOS. But it would give Apple presence in the PC world over and above just Quicktime, which could always stir interest and inquiry into the company. Just to give Apple more market presence, really. Not to mention the market that exists and could be exploited for a cheaper Office program that is compatible (mostly) with MS Office.
----
This is a good question and an interesting dilemma. I personally think that knowing Apple, and more importantly, Jobs, the likelihood of a port is slim. Like you said, the point of all of these applications is to get switchers. Let's say you have 100 people in the market for a $1500 computer. If Apple's software can convince ten percent of them, Apple grosses $15000. If the suite costs $300, Apple would have to sell 50 of them to PC people in order to get the same response.

Of course there is always the idea of breaking into the business market, but I think we need to all realize that that is also an almost impossible task...

Then again, the iPod was very successful in the PC world...Apple could try to push its luck with this, but I don't think we'd get another iPod.

Oh, and btw, I'd just like to let that 14 and 9 month year old know something:
I have some experience with some foolish people thinking that I'm intelligent...I turned 16 in November and I just started in a 7-year med program at Northwestern...But it's probably sheer luck, the encouragement of parents and teachers, and Someone's blessings that got me this far, not my own master ability...The point is, don't be so full of yourself: You're not going to make any friends by posting in a signature that you got an 800 in SAT-I Math in 8th Grade. Kudos, very impressive, but as one kid who does reasonably well (no, not THAT well) on standardized tests to another, don't tout it so much and don't put so much stock in them--they're great to get into college, and not always effective in that, but serve as no real indicators of anytning else in life.

[edenwaith]

Originally posted by nuckinfutz
ColoJohnBoy-

When did Jaguar actually ship. I know Apple released a Press release last July but did Jaguar actually ship in July?

It started shipping in the second half of August. I remember that because I went on a small vacation in late August, and when I came back, my copy of Jaguar was waiting for me when I got back.

[edenwaith]

I think a PC port of a newer version of AppleWorks (or whatever it will be called) would be an excellent idea. If Apple is trying to become more of a software company, it would probably do it well to make some headway into the PC market.

Granted, Apple probably will have to analyze whether or not making a PC port would be cost effective, but if so, why not make it then? It might bring over a few new Mac converts, but I wouldn't expect a ton. I think Apple would make more money by having the PC iWorks rather than just showing it and HOPING that someone would then decide to buy a Mac and the software.

Also consider that the return on software is probably a lot higher than hardware is. Software tends to be a box with a CD, and MAYBE a manual, coming to the grand total of a few dollars (or pounds or euros), whereas there is a decently large parts and labor cost on hardware.

Originally posted by themadchemist
[QUOTE]Originally posted by nodmonkey
[B]Does anyone suspect that if this new office suite of applications really does have benefits over MS Office then it may be ported to Windows?

Initial reaction is obviously "no" because it would have no power to attract switchers (to Apple hardware and other software/services) if available on both Windows and MacOS. But it would give Apple presence in the PC world over and above just Quicktime, which could always stir interest and inquiry into the company. Just to give Apple more market presence, really. Not to mention the market that exists and could be exploited for a cheaper Office program that is compatible (mostly) with MS Office.
----
This is a good question and an interesting dilemma. I personally think that knowing Apple, and more importantly, Jobs, the likelihood of a port is slim. Like you said, the point of all of these applications is to get switchers. Let's say you have 100 people in the market for a $1500 computer. If Apple's software can convince ten percent of them, Apple grosses $15000. If the suite costs $300, Apple would have to sell 50 of them to PC people in order to get the same response.

Of course there is always the idea of breaking into the business market, but I think we need to all realize that that is also an almost impossible task...

Then again, the iPod was very successful in the PC world...Apple could try to push its luck with this, but I don't think we'd get another iPod.

[zon7]

I think good names are:
Type
Data
Taxes :P

And I've heard M$ are gonna change their apps names to:
Word -> WordPad Enhaced(Some more options for 200MB)
Excel -> Spread s hit
Access -> Too many menus(also called Toomm)
Outlook-> "I can do so many things that I don't do one well"

[dstorey]

Originally posted by Nermal
I don't think they'll call it Document. With Keynote, you make presentations, but the app isn't called Presentation. If Apple use the same naming scheme then their word processor may be called Letter, or Report, or some other type of document you can make with it.

I was thinking about this when the first 'document' rumour came about. I'd like the suite to be called iWork to go with iLife, and consist of Report word processor, Keynote presintation and Forcast spreadsheet with filemaker pro db. I'd have like something like a MySQL or postgreSQL db with an apple developed front end so it was as easy to use as the likes of Access and Applescripting but as I'vr found out Apple actually own filemakr and they wont kill this. I'd also like mail, Safari, sherlock, iChat with video/voice chat - maybe iPhone and address book to become more intergrated and be branded something like iComm or iCommunicate and the music download service to be something like iPlay, so you have somthing promatable like I work, i play, i communicate, iLife.

[Trimix]

How about i-quill for the word processor ?

[BenRoethig]

Originally posted by ColoJohnBoy
I'm glad Apple is taking the iWorks step. I hope it's compatible with MS Office docs, but with greater ease than AppleWorks. I've been using Office X for too long - It's a fine program, but I'd rather give money to Apple than to Microsoft.

With 10.3 Panther, Apple should wait awhile. Working at the Apple Store I heard countless gripes from people about having to shell out $130 for the latest and greatest. The should set a date past the one year for Jaguar - that way Panther will probably be better received.

And good about the 17" PowerBooks. Hopefully this means they'll introduce the new 15" PB soon :)

Personally, I think Appleworks may still have a role. iWorks (Should be called iOffice or AppleOffice. Sounds too low end) is going to end costing between $150-$200 and it will be overkill for the average consumer. There's a lot of people who want a low cost multi-purpose app.

By the way, I wouldn't be surprised if the FileMaker team had something to do with the new database app.

[bousozoku]

Many people had speculated that Apple would create a version of OpenOffice that would use Aqua.

Consider, for a moment, that they might be adapting KOffice the way they adapted Konqueror to become Safari. Perhaps, Keynote is already based on KPresenter.

[QuiteSure]

I like something a bit obtuse for the word processing app, like

Serif


For the spreadsheet, how about

Cell

For the database, how about

File Maker Pro

44 yrs, 1 week

[Awimoway]

I don't think Apple will port the office suite to Windows. It stands to reason that the poor schlubbs who don't have the guts to switch from Windows won't have the guts to switch from Office.

But I hope this isn't just a rebranding of Appleworks. "Works" implies a slimmed down, consumer-level (not professional) suite (Appleworks, ClarisWorks, MSWorks). ThinkSecret didn't say this would take Office head-on.

If iWorks does try to be a professional suite, I wonder what exciting, creative new features they will bring to the word processor. Consider: Apple doesn't usually just make their own version of something, they make it better. Keynote added beautiful themes and animation. So what groundbreaking things can you do with a word processor? Will beautiful color themes be enough? Maybe they'll make a better .pdf exporter than Adobe has thus far given us in OS X, so that you can use themes, perhaps even animated ones, in your electronic documents, if not your printed ones.

[theFly]

I rather liked the name Ledger for the spreedsheet someone mentioned earlier.

For the database, how about: relativity.

If Apple wants a serious database app for the Mac, they need to create one (or update FMPro) to be able to import Access files and have the same programming.

Hmm, an VB -> Applescript interpretor, maybe?

theFly

[TheInevitable]

The name "Document" is perfect from a marketing point of view. When someone sees the software on the shelf called "Document," there is no doubt what that program does. Also, it feeds off the success of "Word," because the word "document" is familiar (.doc).

So the name is simple. So what? It is a perfect name for a word processor. I think that Apple will find this program to very successful because of the name (assuming it is a solid application).

[TheInevitable]

... but "iWorks" on the other hand sounds too "entry-level consumer" for me. But then again, that may be who their target consumer is.

[Rincewind42]

Originally posted by theFly
I rather liked the name Ledger for the spreedsheet someone mentioned earlier.

Thanks :D

For the database, how about: relativity.

Hmm... I Like it!

If Apple wants a serious database app for the Mac, they need to create one (or update FMPro) to be able to import Access files and have the same programming.

Hmm, an VB -> Applescript interpretor, maybe?

theFly

Thinks for a moment... OMG... An Applescriptable Database Application would ROCK. I can just imagine setting up a database that launches programs to do work at scheduled times all day long :D

23 yrs, 6 months... heh

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by Rincewind42
Thinks for a moment... OMG... An Applescriptable Database Application would ROCK. I can just imagine setting up a database that launches programs to do work at scheduled times all day long :D
Is the ":D" meant to say you are being sarcastic?

OS X/Darwin already can do this via cron jobs (http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2001/12/14/terminal_one.html) as it is.

[sevenforseven]

how about iLyric?:o

[Snowy_River]

My main issue with iWorks as the name is, as others have mentioned, that it sounds rather entry level. However, Apple may be aiming to change that stigma, because it certainly doesn't seem that the software is going to be entry level. If we look at the one example that we have so far, Keynote, it is not only not entry level, it is aiming to go head-to-head with PowerPoint. If Keynote is indeed going to be part of this suite, then it makes sense that the rest of the suite will be aimed at going head-to-head with the other MS Office applications.

Here's a thought for the name: PowerOffice -> it runs on PowerPCs. :D

[Rincewind42]

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
Is the ":D" meant to say you are being sarcastic?

OS X/Darwin already can do this via cron jobs (http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2001/12/14/terminal_one.html) as it is.

From what I understand of cron jobs however, there is no UI, so you'd have to do a lot more work to get things done that required a program with a UI. Of course, I could be wrong... =).

[hvfsl]

One word for you, iOffice, it says it all.

[Fall]

Who needs it, long live simple text...err...I mean, TextEdit!!

[MARKUS]

New alternative names for the office suite could be....

iDea (With a light bulb logo)
iCan (not a toilet or, rear)
iVision (sort of like iDea)
iMworkinhere (for New Yorkers)
iSuite (sounds logical)
iDoc (to go with the whole "i" thing)
iRate (for people who are fed up with the wole thing)
iNeedtogetthisdonebeforefourinthemorningsoicangetupandgettoworkontime

or maybe just Text.
Actually I think Apple is probably going to phase out naming everything
starting with an "i" because it's getting old.
Just be happy they didn't name Safari iBrouse

[Fall]

"iEmaworkinenhere"

for Italians.

[cryptochrome]

The part of iWorks where apple can really innovate will be the database app. The fact is, most excel spreadsheets are just tables of data - aka databases, albeit rather limited ones. That's why they added the "list" features.

FilemakerPro won't cut it either. It's powerful, but not terribly user friendly. And it's limited with regards to the flexible structures of data that people often want to use. Likewise all SQL database. But XML databases like Xindice can be much more flexible.

And Address Book, while a specialized database, IS very flexible. Each entry can have as many labled phone numbers or addresses as they need. You don't need to set up a different table element for work numbers or whatever, and not have a place to put less obvious data. And best of all, Address Book has a very clean and user friendly interface for entering and browsing that data.

If they took Address Book, increased the performance, abstracted the data structures and made it work with XML based data and schemas, added in a fast "table" way of entering data, and gave it relational database capabilities, and developed user friendly methods for querying and programming the database, they would have a database that would kick the ass of anything else out there at the consumer level.

[theFly]

Just a dumb question, if I may...

But why can't/shouldn't Apple make an advanced front end with mySQL as the backend for the database? A nice aqua front end that's AppleScriptable, etc. Heck, even make it back end flexible where it could use almost any DB for the backend.

theFly

[MacBoy88]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shadowfax
[B]you should be able to, i think. i don't know about the remote part, but you need to adjust your .xinitrc (or make one) that looks like this:

source /sw/bin/init.sh
quartz-wm --only-proxy
/sw/bin/startkde

of course you can get your init.sh from wherever you have one, but you have to start quartz-wm as a proxy or it will conflict with your other wm. alternately, you can just *not* open quartz wm at all, but you don't get any of those faster perks.

i could be way off, but you should be able to run your KDE or GNOME from just about anywhere on X11.

Can I run Red Hat or any linux for that matter using X11, within mac OS X? And if so how?

P.S. How did you get your up time and memory usage in the toolbar

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by MacBoy88
How did you get your up time and memory usage in the toolbar

you have to download Uptimeinmenubar (http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/16402) and MenuMeters (http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/17713) to get the RAM and uptime, and then Spy (http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/12254) for the Processor usage (looks way cool if you have dualies), and finally Meteorologist (http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/16142) for the temp. good stuff.

[Trinity570]

I don't know about everyone else hear but iWorks sounds stupid just like everything else Apple has released lately that has an i in front of the word. This method of naming apps was cute in the beginning with the iMac and earlier applications but ENOUGH ALREADY! I really like Keynote as a name of an application but lets get creative with other application names as well instead of slapping an i in front.

While I'm in rant mode, I noticed rumor has it that 10.3 will employ that ugly brushed metal crap system-wide. For the love of all that is holy and decent, please please please give us the option to switch to something else (without having to go to Duality, etc.).

Rant mode off.

[AppleMatt]

Where was the rumor that 10.3 will be completely brushed metal please?

I very much doubt (read: hope) that it will. What would be nice though is the ability to skin/theme built in so you could, if you really really wanted, make the whole system brushed metal.

AppleMatt ;)

Oh btw I want Shadowfax's mac

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by Rincewind42
From what I understand of cron jobs however, there is no UI, so you'd have to do a lot more work to get things done that required a program with a UI. Of course, I could be wrong... =).
Technically speaking, neither does AppleScript - it's a scripting language. Now AS does have a nice IDE with the dev' tools - but I'd bet you could start an AppleScript as a cron job, if you wanted to.

I'll have to look, but I believe there are some GUI cron managers out there - I'm sure there are for Linux, I'll keep my eyes open for any that have been ported/written to OS X.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by AppleMatt
Where was the rumor that 10.3 will be completely brushed metal please?

I very much doubt (read: hope) that it will. What would be nice though is the ability to skin/theme built in so you could, if you really really wanted, make the whole system brushed metal.

AppleMatt ;)

Oh btw I want Shadowfax's mac

thanks for the compliment ;)

you know you can get it to be all brushed metal though, with third party apps that aren't that hard to figure out, and they seem to work pretty well as far as performance (in fact, you can optimize performance by trashing transparency and drop shadows with some of them skins).

Duality 4 (beta) (http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/16275)
Duality 3.1.1 (http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/13130)
Just realized you may have to wait on that though :( (http://conundrumsoft.com/DualityEnd.html)
but here is where you can get themes, including good ol' brushed metal (http://homepage.mac.com/max_08/themes.htm)

i don't like brushed metal everywhere, myself.

[Trinity570]

The rumor regarding 10.3 was located at www.looprumors.com.

I really don't know how accurate they are as I've just discovered them not too long ago.

[AppleMatt]

Thanks Shadowfax, all have been downloaded :)

Took a look at looprumors.com, seemed to be a lot of speculation to me...

AppleMatt

[IVIIVI4ck3y27]

Originally posted by elo
Personally, I think "Document" is a good name, even a very good name. I'm a business user and cringe over "cutsey" names. Document states very clearly what the application does and it's very no nonsense about it. It also has a serious, hefty sound to it, like it has some power. I'm guessing that this name will stick, and that "iWorks" is for internal use only.

A couple of other thoughts: While I agree with the idea that something like iLife should be Mac-only, there's much greater need (and even more perceived need) for standardization among office suites. If Apple can truly surpass MS Office (and despite some of the issues we all have with Office, that won't be easy to do), it should consider doing it cross-platform. At the very least, if the suite is good enough, the *possibility* that it could go cross-platform might give Microsoft some incentive to keep Apple happy. Along the same lines, Apple should consider using the .doc format as standard and making a major effort to see that document formatting is preserved accurately if opened in Word. If there is even a chance that a document I send for business purposes won't look correct on the recipient's machine, then I can't consider the program. And I think many other users will face this dilemma. Finally, it and other Apple programs should be relentlessly Dock-aware. Microsoft's Mac division has done this very well but Apple, oddly, has not.

I'm looking forward to iWorks (or whatever it's called), but I'm going to have to be convinced to use it.

elo

How about instead of preserving ".DOC", how about Apple creates an open-standard word processing document that they provide to a standards body. Hell, could even just publish everything in an XML document format, a format that any XML-capable program could read/edit. This would preserve an "open standard" formatting, and any and all programs in the Apple Office suite could import/export/write/read/save to an "identical" XML file. Apple could even ship out exporters to RSS (to pick-up the feed on a wireless phone and view it) and other online formats, thereby making a word processing file that could be opened in web browsers on other platforms, at the bear minimum. Microsoft Office is rumored to be shifting to XML in the future, and if Apple capitalizes as well, it could very well create a compatible format that the W3C keeps tabs on and keeps in check. .DOC is all well and good, but you're still slaving to the monster... XML is open, free, and could be inclusive of the spreadsheet and word processing work, as well as perhaps the database documents.

Otherwise, you could even export to PDF or save as an .rtf. True, reading a .doc is a "MUST", but for Apple's native file format... they could well go with anything that's open-standard and perhaps start a revolution rather than try to chase after the current head of the pack by copying.

As far as nomenclature:

Keynote is a good name, Ledger was brilliant (kudos to the person that thought it up), the database could just be Filemaker ::scratching chin:: (not the best name in the whole world but it's known), Document... I'm not too keen on, the verb/noun conundrum. It makes it sound iffy.

However, there should be multiple ways to get the functionality you need:

1) Trim out the excess and sell it as a new "works" style suite, but let's call it "iOffice" as it fits with the iConsumer line, fully integrated to where there's "ONE" common interface. Perhaps iOffice is nothing more than an updated codebase of AppleWorks borrowing much of it's functionality from the "hardcore" Office suite. Like toss in a paired down version of Keynote, Filemaker, Ledger, and Document (or whatever they're all called) that are integrated into "ONE" simple interface.

2) Sell each program individually that comprise the office suite(s). Just like Microsoft does with Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and Access.

3) Apple Office Express... the "Prosumer"/"Small Office"/"Education" edition. Perhaps a more limited license of Filemaker (the database program) and perhaps devoid of such things as a OS X compatible Mail server (perhaps an Exchange server competitor/clone), and any "plug-ins" for stuff such as web page publishing. The Office programs could be extensible via licensed plug-ins.

4) Apple Office Pro... full and hardcore, bundled perhaps with some other niceties (Exchange-compatible mail server or an open-source server, perhaps a fully integrated "UPGRADED" version of Mail.app that could be called "Collaborate", that has iCal and iSync integration along with Exchange server compatibility and works cross-platform with Outlook; perhaps fusing a more "business-minded" interface to iChat and integrating it into the program for collaboration and workflow management; maybe even with a built-in flowchart interface distributed to users as an XML/RSS feed).

I also believe Apple could do well to make a simple page layout program for doing office memos and flyers (iPublish?) and drop it into the Pro suite (sell it separately and/or give it away as part of .Mac as a free download). I spoke of this on the Adobe Acrobat discussion on MacCentral.com. Even perhaps Apple on their high-end version comes with a version of other programs like perhaps a higher-end photo editing/drawing program, which could well be something like Photo Studio Express, which would be like an Apple Photoshop Elements/Illustrator Elements (non-existant but likely a future evolution) or perhaps a first... integration of Vector-based and Bitmap editing in one program.

This is all in keeping with the Apple nomenclature of things, and looking at the MS Office model of things. Just ideas more than anything.

[benixau]

Welcoming the new Apple Office Suite:
iProduce - featuring;

*Ledger - a word processor
*Record - a spreadsheet programme
*Keynote - a presentation creator
and including
*FileMaker, the easy to use database application.

what do you all think? the complete name sounds good. i got the idea from ilife. what does it relate to, iApps relate to your lifestyle. office apps relate to productivity. Well, your thoughts would be appreciated.

[mangoman]

This 'iThis', 'iThat' naming structure has become REALLY tired. Apple would be smart to reinvent itself. Looks like they're trying: Keynote, for example.

My .02 cents.

[IVIIVI4ck3y27]

Originally posted by benixau
Welcoming the new Apple Office Suite:
iProduce - featuring;

*Ledger - a word processor
*Record - a spreadsheet programme
*Keynote - a presentation creator
and including
*FileMaker, the easy to use database application.

what do you all think? the complete name sounds good. i got the idea from ilife. what does it relate to, iApps relate to your lifestyle. office apps relate to productivity. Well, your thoughts would be appreciated.

Ledger, as said previously, would better fit the name of a spreadsheet. I can't think of anything better than Document so far for the word processor but I don't particularly care too much for it as a name because of the verb/noun confusion. It's not as strong as Ledger (spreadsheet) or Keynote (presentation) as a name. I had thought of perhaps "Novel" but, it'd likely get confused with Novell (networking software)... Novel has the definitions of being an extended writing, book... and being a "novel invention", as in creative or ingenious. Yet it just doesn't roll off the tongue nicely either. Then again, like I said... Document just doesn't seem to work either.

As far as the iNames.... it just fits within their product planning. iApps are either free or consumer/educational level applications. *Name* Express apps. are for Prosumers and perhaps Small businesses that can't afford the *Name* Pro apps., but need more features than the majority of iApps. For Apple to change this philosophy... they'd have to come up with a new "low end" brand philosophy, which would violate everything they've worked this hard to do. Unfortunately, the brand equity tied to iTunes and iPhoto is "TREMENDOUS". Whether you like the naming convention or not, the iApps have stuck and are doing quite well, and people are quickly beginning to understand the equity of them. Killing off the iApp name for non-professional applications would be foolish. In the case of a Keynote, it stands on it's own as a software that thus far, is both entry-level capable, and professional-grade. As a result, it transcends and carries a singular name. My bank is that Keynote will remain this way, as will other members of the Office suite, but I'd not deny Apple the opportunity to take on MS Office's gradings on PC. After all, Apple could use an alternative to MS products like Exchange Server, Outlook, Publisher, Photodraw, etc. to bolster their product lineup, provide competition, and back themselves up in case MS pulls the plug or doesn't offer it.

That is why, as I previously stated, Apple should release both an iOffice (AppleWorks replacement, more up to date, carves a new niche by being more innovative, new name symbolizes this change by not continuing on in the *Works realm of Claris and Apple) as well as Apple Office Express (mid-level, restricted version of the Pro app.; perhaps just the 4-5 "CORE" Office Applications; 5 being like MS Office:Mac in that it has an Entourage competitor that is both Exchange [or open alternative] savvy, and works like pumped up version of Email.app or Outlook Express) and perhaps an Apple Office Pro (contains more bells and whistles for the Professional Office, designed to go toe to toe and exceed MS Office Premium/Professional). iOffice's database would be very simple and easy to use (even if based on Filemaker; it'd be far simpler), as would the other versions of the database component... but they would be more full-featured with more functionality, options, and ability for serving akin to a roadmap of like a Filemaker (iApp integrated and redesigned for easier use), Filemaker Pro (Express), and Filemaker Pro Unlimited Server (Pro) respectively.

Of course, this is presuming that Apple even goes with reintroducing Filemaker into the "NEW" Apple loop of Office software. They could make a brand new XML-based database program that's easier to use, as the other person suggested... and this could be tied to a Office-wise use of XML documents, along with complete interaction between applications (think GoBe or OpenDoc) in terms of ability to read said documents and embellish on them. Imagine if you will, that the Word Processor, Spreadsheet, Database, all use XML formatted files; perhaps even Keynote is updated to use this new pholosophy. Then you'd have "one" file that could work as a form of "projector" in the Macromedia Flash sense... in that you can view it any of the three and add to the document without having to import/export; as well as view it in Safari, IE (Mac/PC), Netscape, et al. with XML being the future of the web as well. Hell, Apple could even toss in a source editor (suite-wide or application-wide) and the program could take it's approach as a web editor too for those that want to muck in the back end.

These are just ideas, but to me it makes more logical sense to keep the branding scheme going because it's successful. I mean, think about it (names in Red could fill in voids currently not in Apple's philosophy):

iMovie -> Final Cut Express -> Final Cut Pro

iDVD -> DVD Studio Express -> DVD Studio Pro

iPhoto -> Photo Studio Express -> Photo Studio Pro

Get the idea? With this philosophy that Apple has created:

iOffice -> Apple Office Express -> Apple Office Pro...

works. :)

iProduce to me strikes too much as a "movie" application, it might've been a better name than iMovie though now that I think about it. Like iProduce or iDirect (which could be construed as a Director competitor, unfortunately).

I like iPublish for a lightweight page layout program (perhaps a free download for .mac users; another perk of the system), which could be included with something like an Apple Office Pro (similar to MS shipping Publisher with their high end suite on PC) for office works to produce flyers and company documentation for products. Of course this component could lead itself into something like Design Studio Express and Design Studio Pro or some Design-esque name in fitting with Final Cut or Keynote's play on what they're used for, moreso than what they are.

I had thought of iType for the word processor, but it doesn't fit with Keynote, and it doesn't wreak of a "works-style" Office application so much as it does a cheeky name for a word processor, which of course any works-style app. will be more of a swiss army approach. It doesn't fit Apple's current product nomenclature approach; which is as strong a brand equity as anyone in the business; based on it's consistency.

Wait... maybe the word processor could be called "Memo", as in the office lingo to "Jot down a memo". ::shrug:: I dunno, I still don't like "Document", but I'm not sure what sounds better. LoL That'd make:

Memo (word processor)
Ledger (spreadsheet)
Keynote (presentation)

...and whatever we can think up for the database. LoL Filemaker, even if integrated, probably needs an interface overhaul as well as a name change... although it might be best to leave Filemaker out and create a new, easier to use, database program that packs feature for feature but perhaps shifts to an integrated model moreso. Then again, there's Apple's ties with Larry Ellison of Oracle (on Apple's board)... could use an Oracle-integrated database system, or even just support a MySQL backend as suggested. Although I prefer the application(s)-wide approach to a unified XML-based/PDF-based document format system the best.

[NavyIntel007]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
good luck with windows, lol. isn't that like saying, "if my girlfriend dyes her hair red, i'm going to shoot myself?" i mean, you're wlecome to, but that kind of smarts isn't typical of Apple users. You do realize that you'll still be able to use MS word if you really want to, right?

LOL I had a girl dye her hair blue once and I told her we wouldn't go out. She says oh so you won't date me? I said, no, I'll still date you... we just won't go anywhere.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by NavyIntel007
LOL I had a girl dye her hair blue once and I told her we wouldn't go out. She says oh so you won't date me? I said, no, I'll still date you... we just won't go anywhere.

is that like innuendo?