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MacRumors
Aug 11, 2006, 10:05 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Despite being uncharacteristic of the secretive Steve Jobs we have grown to know, AppleInsider reports that the Apple CEO has been boasting about Apple's upcoming phone offering (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1959) to his inner circle. Apparently, Steve's own excitement over the product has lead him to produce a few "zealous ramblings" dating back as early as this past spring.

AppleInsider also offers a little more information (although cryptic) on the characteristics of the phone.

One person familiar with the ongoings believes the Apple cofounder has commissioned the release of cell phone prototypes to at least two potential OEM manufacturing partners in recent months. Current designs are said to conform to Apple's integrated model and leverage its tightly-knit digital media franchises, that person added.

In addition, AppleInsider quotes a source who states that the phone is indeed set to launch "earlier than some people may be expecting, in the form of a 'big bang' introduction that will catch even some insiders off-guard." ThinkSecret has previously stated that the phone has seen delays (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/03/20060330174059.shtml) that could set it back as far as next year, whereas Engadget has recently stated that the phone could arrive as early as this month (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/07/20060729213347.shtml).

iGary
Aug 11, 2006, 10:06 AM
*woot*

Please let it be good so I can trash my Treo.

DJMastaWes
Aug 11, 2006, 10:08 AM
*woot*

x2

My dad is gonna get one as soon as it comes out.

I hope it looks NOTHING like the mock ups we have seen.

sunfast
Aug 11, 2006, 10:09 AM
These iPhone rumours continue to persist. I admit to being a sceptic, but maybe I'm wrong! I just hope that if they do do it, they do it well.

emotion
Aug 11, 2006, 10:09 AM
My t610 is on it's last legs. Please let this be true.

twoodcc
Aug 11, 2006, 10:10 AM
bring it on!! my razr isn't that impressive. in fact, not any phone i've ever had was. maybe apple can change this

cait-sith
Aug 11, 2006, 10:10 AM
Apple may or may not have a phone. It may launch this month, or a year from now.

Gee... :confused:

SodaPopMonster
Aug 11, 2006, 10:13 AM
Wow, must be hella good.

I bet it will be something that makes us think "Why didn't I think of that?"

Chris Bangle
Aug 11, 2006, 10:14 AM
We always have "next tuesday"

phelix_da_kat
Aug 11, 2006, 10:15 AM
What OS will the iPhone be running? :confused:
If people want a Treo replacement, you are going to have top consider:
1. calendar - hopefully you can port over Palm to iCal
2. contacts - to Mail/Address book
3. will there be a keyboard - personally I send a lot of mail/texts so would want to keep the "thumb-board" ;)

ingenious
Aug 11, 2006, 10:16 AM
I really hope Apple comes out with a phone that's an awesome phone, music player, and smart phone... Is that asking too much?

Oh, and it needs to cost US$200 or less (preferably less). :D :rolleyes:

edit: after reading article, it looks pretty promising! :)

~Shard~
Aug 11, 2006, 10:16 AM
These rumors surrounding the iPhone have been around for quite a while now, so I sure hope it becomes reality sooner rather than later. Who knows, if it’s really good I may actually buy my first cell phone ever. :cool:

mlrproducts
Aug 11, 2006, 10:20 AM
Hurry up and take my money Apple! Here is my wishlist, the first section is PLAUSIBLE:

1) Released for GSM sim cards (probable, maybe support for CDMA later on)
2) Bluetooth (well, I think this is a given)
3) Good integration with iCal, Mail, etc

Now what I WANT that might not happen:
4) Not tied to a service provider
5) Affordable LOL
6) Wifi built in
7) Modem support for dialup over GSM
8) Lightweight, small FF

emotion
Aug 11, 2006, 10:20 AM
What OS will the iPhone be running? :confused:
If people want a Treo replacement, you are going to have top consider whether:
1. calendar - hopefully you can port over Palm to iCal
2. contacts - to Mail/Address book
3. will there be a keyboard - personally I send a lot of mail/texts so would want to keep the "thumb-board" ;)

I think the device is likely to be iPod based (the underlying OS can handle a lot more than audio and video playback i think).

I'd love some thumb board capability but nt at the expense of size. If this thing is a brick it's not gonna work out.

dextertangocci
Aug 11, 2006, 10:22 AM
Please Apple, make it the best phone ever!

I am using a Nokia 1100 at the moment:rolleyes: :eek: :o , and would love an upgrade, but would prefer to wait for the iPhone:cool: :D :)

netdog
Aug 11, 2006, 10:22 AM
What OS will the iPhone be running?


OS Xm

geoffism
Aug 11, 2006, 10:22 AM
I don't care so much about the iPod capability, but I would like to see the result of a smartphone by Apple. I haven't jumped on the bandwagon of the Treos and Palms.

Call me a sucker, but I'd like somehting that could do all the mundane, make my life easier, organization crap, and have it look cool as well. Oh, and not run on a crap OS.

~Shard~
Aug 11, 2006, 10:25 AM
I really hope Apple comes out with a phone that's an awesome phone, music player, and smart phone... Is that asking too much?

Yes, I agree, it would have to be an iPod as well for all intents and purposes. And please Apple, make it a good quality phone - don't make it like those RAZRs which look cool but are crappy otherwise. I don't think I have read more negative reviews on a cell phone than I have for the RAZR.

VanMac
Aug 11, 2006, 10:26 AM
I say it everytime they talk about this..... I'll buy one.....just go ahead and release it already

Phat Elvis
Aug 11, 2006, 10:27 AM
I would love to see a smartphone from Apple. Palm reliability is in the gutter and it doesn't look like Apple (or anyone else) is into making PDA's.

I just hope that we don't have to re-buy any music from iTunes just to play on the phone.

I'm really glad that this rumor cleared things up about when an Apple phone will be released :rolleyes: .

Flowbee
Aug 11, 2006, 10:28 AM
Arrrggh... too many conflicting rumors make my head a splode. :eek:

freeny
Aug 11, 2006, 10:29 AM
This is just a smoke screen for something else....;)

Butters
Aug 11, 2006, 10:29 AM
I don't really want an iphone, I'd rather have an ipod with ichat/isight tbh

lazyrighteye
Aug 11, 2006, 10:33 AM
*woot*
Please let it be good so I can trash my Treo.

My Treo is best smart phone I have used. That said, it's nowhere NEAR where I expect an Apple offering to be - when/if discussing integration.
Depending on what Apple unveils, I am very ready to cut my contract w/ VZW if it means a better user experience than what I am getting now.

Chundles
Aug 11, 2006, 10:33 AM
Two stories so far on the front page and we have:

"chineese"
"upcomming"

Looks like arn's keyboard is stickiiing. :D

iPhone = bad idea and difficult to implement beyond the USA.

pdpfilms
Aug 11, 2006, 10:37 AM
"...Earlier than some may be expecting"??

Wasn't everyone expecting this a year ago?

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 10:38 AM
Paris would be an excellent opportunity to introduce the "iPhone".

GFLPraxis
Aug 11, 2006, 10:39 AM
These iPhone rumours continue to persist. I admit to being a sceptic, but maybe I'm wrong! I just hope that if they do do it, they do it well.

The Intel Mac rumors persisted too.

Angelus520
Aug 11, 2006, 10:41 AM
Take a look at the Nokia E61. I just got one to replace my BlackBerry and love it. It's the European version and you have to buy it unlocked ($350 or so) but it works great. Cingular is coming out with a dumbed down version called the E62 but strips away some of the cool features like WiFi. Go figure - an American phone with less features than the one sold in the rest of the world.

With crappy phones and our pathetic broadband infrastructure, you'd think we were Third World rather than a "Superpower."

I don't care so much about the iPod capability, but I would like to see the result of a smartphone by Apple. I haven't jumped on the bandwagon of the Treos and Palms.

Call me a sucker, but I'd like somehting that could do all the mundane, make my life easier, organization crap, and have it look cool as well. Oh, and not run on a crap OS.

Tommyg117
Aug 11, 2006, 10:44 AM
My phone plan runs out next month, hopefully it comes out soon.

netdog
Aug 11, 2006, 10:47 AM
"...Earlier than some may be expecting"??

Wasn't everyone expecting this a year ago?

Using TimeMachine, Steve is going to release it two years ago.

Dunepilot
Aug 11, 2006, 10:48 AM
I'm desperately in need of something to replace a buggered Palm Vx and a Sony Ericsson k750i. I've been looking at the Treo, but they're not easy to come by for Vodafone contract, if at all.

However, I can't see an Apple phone having much PDA functionality, no more than the iPod probably. It'll do something else, like VOIP, to differentiate itself, and have the smallest number of keys possible. Probably the number keys plus one or max two additional buttons.

I hope they do it, actually.

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 10:50 AM
These iPhone rumours continue to persist. I admit to being a sceptic, but maybe I'm wrong! I just hope that if they do do it, they do it well.
It is an absolute necessity for Apple to introduce something like the iPhone. Especially after the introduction of cellphones like e.g. SE W810i which basically includes a top-of-the-line 4Gb Nano. The swan song of portable-mp3-only-players has begun.
I am sure Rokr just was a big public hard/software test and not really intended to amaze the market as iPod once did.
The upcoming iPhone on the other hand... I guess THAT is a whole different story.

jaxstate
Aug 11, 2006, 10:50 AM
I wonder if it's going to be a toy or a real phone. I'm hoping it's more of a smartphone than a ngage phone. (i know they couldn't make a phone that bad if they tried, just tryint to get a point out there.)

lazyrighteye
Aug 11, 2006, 10:50 AM
Using TimeMachine, Steve is going to release it two years ago.

That made my Friday... which may actually be a sad comment on things in my world. :D

Kirkmedia
Aug 11, 2006, 10:51 AM
iPhone = bad idea and difficult to implement beyond the USA.


I think it will be harder to implement in the USA and easier in Europe.

bryanc
Aug 11, 2006, 10:52 AM
I'm stuck in a contract for another year, so I'll be watching to see how this pans out. Hopefully, I'll be able to jump on a Rev B without reservations.

Given Apple's patent on the click-wheel interface, what do you think the likelihood of a virtual rotary phone interface? There are plenty of people who are now adults who've never 'dialled' a phone. It would be really slick if Apple could find a way for all of us old-farts to re-activiate our kinaesthetic memories and dial up and old friend using the click wheel on our new iPhones.

Cheers

netdog
Aug 11, 2006, 10:52 AM
I wonder if it's going to be a toy or a real phone. I'm hoping it's more of a smartphone than a ngage phone. (i know they couldn't make a phone that bad if they tried, just tryint to get a point out there.)

It seems to me that there may be two phones coming here. I wouldn't be surprised if one has a full keyboard, either on touchscreen or using conventional buttons, and one is simpler.

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 10:57 AM
Go figure - an American phone with less features than the one sold in the rest of the world.
Doesn't that suggest Paris this year being a very likely time and place for the introduction of the iPhone? I doubt Apple will wait one more year considering the competition (see SE W810i (http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?cc=us&lc=en&ver=4000&template=pp1_loader&php=PHP1_10376&zone=pp&lm=pp1&pid=10376) and others)

jaxstate
Aug 11, 2006, 10:57 AM
That would be awesome.
It seems to me that there may be two phones coming here. I wouldn't be surprised if one has a full keyboard, either on touchscreen or using conventional buttons, and one is simpler.

dhc
Aug 11, 2006, 11:05 AM
I'm stuck in a contract for another year, so I'll be watching to see how this pans out. Hopefully, I'll be able to jump on a Rev B without reservations.

Given Apple's patent on the click-wheel interface, what do you think the likelihood of a virtual rotary phone interface? There are plenty of people who are now adults who've never 'dialled' a phone. It would be really slick if Apple could find a way for all of us old-farts to re-activiate our kinaesthetic memories and dial up and old friend using the click wheel on our new iPhones.

Cheers

Loving that idea..54820

gugy
Aug 11, 2006, 11:06 AM
Paris would be an excellent opportunity to introduce the "iPhone".

Probably, But I think Christmass season would be better for sales. maybe they will launch end of October to take advantage of that.

I just hope it's true, I am so tired of my Verizon service and their crap phones.

dernhelm
Aug 11, 2006, 11:07 AM
Doesn't that suggest Paris this year being a very likely time and place for the introduction of the iPhone? I doubt Apple will wait one more year considering the competition (see SE W810i (http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?cc=us&lc=en&ver=4000&template=pp1_loader&php=PHP1_10376&zone=pp&lm=pp1&pid=10376) and others)

Agreed. I can't imagine anyone getting "all excited" about a product that's a year or more off.

MattyMac
Aug 11, 2006, 11:09 AM
Yes Yes Yes

buffalo
Aug 11, 2006, 11:11 AM
Is it possible for Apple to release a phone sold in their stores that would work on all networks? Or have several versions of the phone that will work for Verizon, Cingular...

shelterpaw
Aug 11, 2006, 11:14 AM
What I gather would really make the iPhone something special:

Have the storage capacity of an iPod nano.
Work with 3G networks.
Built in iSight.
Integrates standard OS X applications: Mail, iCal, AddressBook, and iChatMobile with video and audio integration.
Works as a front row remote.
Intergrates with iLife: iTunes (itms), iPhoto, and iMovie. Perhaps GarageBand ring-tone capability in the future.
Integrates with .Mac.
Mobile Dashboard.
Bluetooth
WIFI
VOIP (through wifi and/or integration with your computer with a dialer widget)
A windows version with some integration, but limited.
A real TimeMachine (okay, just kidding on this one)


How it functions hardware wise, there’s been so much speculation as far as touch sensitive keypads and touch sensitive screens, the verdict is out on this one. I think the sidekick and blackberrys have it down, but wouldn’t be surprised if Apple could take it to the next level. It certainly will be interesting to see what they do.

Unspeaked
Aug 11, 2006, 11:14 AM
G5 iPhones next Tuesday.

jmsait19
Aug 11, 2006, 11:17 AM
Is it possible for Apple to release a phone sold in their stores that would work on all networks? Or have several versions of the phone that will work for Verizon, Cingular...

you mean sell an unlocked phone? that would be sweet. then the carrier couldn't cripple it. we would experience it as steve intended us to.

although they could get some kind of exclusive rights deal if they picked a carrier.

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 11:19 AM
Probably, But I think Christmass season would be better for sales. maybe they will launch end of October to take advantage of that.

I just hope it's true, I am so tired of my Verizon service and their crap phones.
I think europe might be the best place to introduce, considering europe is slightly ahead (at least in comparison to US) when it comes to cellphones. Moreover, I have gotten the impression that people over here change phones much more often than in US. Mot people I know get a phone at least once a year. A standard contract over here is for 12 months, but many people arent tied up by contracts.
Agreed. I can't imagine anyone getting "all excited" about a product that's a year or more off.
I wouldnt be surprised if the iPhone will be the one-more-thing at the Paris expo. In fact, I actually expect it considering the competion getting harder. mp3 cellphones at 4Gb and the upcoming MS iTMS/player should force Apple to act sooner than later.

iGary
Aug 11, 2006, 11:19 AM
I've been looking at the Treo, but they're not easy to come by for Vodafone contract, if at all.

And they suck - I had a 600, which fell into the water and was replaced by insurance with a 650, which is only marginally better.

I don't believe the rumor - Steve wouldn't blab, he just wouldn't.

We only have a month to wait, though. :)

Phat Elvis
Aug 11, 2006, 11:21 AM
G5 iPhones next Tuesday.

Just awesome :D .

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 11:24 AM
What I gather would really make the iPhone something special:
...
5. Works as a front row remote.

That would require a built in IR as well as that standard BT. Of course, unless Apple let you run front row via the BT.

gugy
Aug 11, 2006, 11:24 AM
you mean sell an unlocked phone? that would be sweet. then the carrier couldn't cripple it. we would experience it as steve intended us to.

although they could get some kind of exclusive rights deal if they picked a carrier.

If Apple pick a carrier, I hope is not Cingular. But from past situations, that's very likely.
The ideal is a carrier free phone. That way the iphone can reach many more people and make it possible to upgrade phones without asking people to terminate their contracts.

Chris Bangle
Aug 11, 2006, 11:24 AM
Ill only buy it if stupid little spoilt english kids dont buy it, i dont mean posh english kids but yobbish ones, I want it to be the coolest thing in the world. The nano has become the essential for yobbish teenage boys and girls in the uk and I just want those stupid turds to stick to their quote "amazing black v3's with itunes and video" which dont actually have itunes and video!!!!!!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: Im not ageist because im 16.....

Butters
Aug 11, 2006, 11:28 AM
Ill only buy it if stupid little spoilt english kids dont buy it, i dont mean posh english kids but yobbish ones, I want it to be the coolest thing in the world. The nano has become the essential for yobbish teenage boys and girls in the uk and I just want those stupid turds to stick to their quote "amazing black v3's with itunes and video" which dont actually have itunes and video!!!!!!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: Im not ageist because im 16.....

I agree with that

Scruff
Aug 11, 2006, 11:28 AM
This is probably the rumored Apple product I look forward to the most. Could really use a new phone, :p.

ccrandall77
Aug 11, 2006, 11:30 AM
The US GSM carriers suck. T-Mobile has great customer service, but their coverage stinks. Cingular has great coverage, but they have BY FAR the worst customer service.

Plus EVDO beats the pants off of EDGE. And Verizon + Sprint + Amp'd + US Cellular + a bunch of other, smaller CDMA carriers account for over 60million potential customers in the US. If they only do a GSM version of the phone, it'll be a big mistake.

Cinch
Aug 11, 2006, 11:35 AM
Take a look at the Nokia E61. I just got one to replace my BlackBerry and love it. It's the European version and you have to buy it unlocked ($350 or so) but it works great. Cingular is coming out with a dumbed down version called the E62 but strips away some of the cool features like WiFi. Go figure - an American phone with less features than the one sold in the rest of the world.

With crappy phones and our pathetic broadband infrastructure, you'd think we were Third World rather than a "Superpower."


Yeah, but I rather pay ~30% tax than the 50%+ tax in Europe (fed., state, sales etc).

Chris Bangle
Aug 11, 2006, 11:36 AM
I agree with that


Why thank you, I was expecting to reported for being rude. Atleast somebody agrees with me.

but the main reason i wouldnt buy a nano is beacause the sides are tooo square, i prefer the sides of the mini.

Cinch
Aug 11, 2006, 11:39 AM
This is probably the rumored Apple product I look forward to the most. Could really use a new phone, :p.

I agree at least since the iPod. As an investor, I hope Apple executes their plan well. The mobile phone business is getting crowded all of a sudden e.g. Best Buy, Disney, ESPN etc. I think it will come down to design e.g. Razr.

Cinch

jlewis2k1
Aug 11, 2006, 11:41 AM
am i the only one here that really thinks this is just a pathetic to even think apple is coming out with a phone? Personally, I can not see apple coming out with one. Honestly, I'm quite sick of hearing all of these posts about potential iPhone stuff. i just dont believe it would happen.

Chris Bangle
Aug 11, 2006, 11:43 AM
I agree at least since the iPod. As an investor, I hope Apple executes their plan well. The mobile phone business is getting crowded all of a sudden e.g. Best Buy, Disney, ESPN etc. I think it will come down to design e.g. Razr.

Cinch


I think the main reason the razr's such a sucess is beacuse it soo cheap. It so easy to get one free with your contract in the UK. Not only does it look alrite but its massivly affordable

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 11:47 AM
The US GSM carriers suck. T-Mobile has great customer service, but their coverage stinks. Cingular has great coverage, but they have BY FAR the worst customer service.

Plus EVDO beats the pants off of EDGE. And Verizon + Sprint + Amp'd + US Cellular + a bunch of other, smaller CDMA carriers account for over 60million potential customers in the US. If they only do a GSM version of the phone, it'll be a big mistake.
isn't it about time you guys got in line with the rest of the world? GSM has more than 81% (http://www.gsacom.com/news/gsa_203.php4?PHPSESSID=7aa4036fa6a16fe0066d2e6dc9430727) of the world market. If you get a cdma phone you are more or less restriced to use it in US, whereas a GSM phone can be used more or less all over the planet.

bigmc6000
Aug 11, 2006, 11:51 AM
I really really really hope they just go in with a carrier on this (of course requiring Cingular to not cripple the functionality). There's no way in the world Apple would make as much money off of this as if they got in with one of the big guys. Just ask Disney - ESPN mobile is bombing as is Disney mobile. It doesn't work. And most of those you have to pay retail price for the phone - screw that. I'm going to be with Cingular anyway I might as well get them to take $200 off the phone for me.


PLEASE STEVE, GO WITH CINGULAR!!!!!!!

Note; I'm just saying Cingular since they are the only ones who really seem interested in offering iTunes on their phones...

quigleybc
Aug 11, 2006, 11:54 AM
Oh my god....this phone....sigh....this phone...

This is the new G5 Powerbook....so many rumors/front page stories....

it's tiresome...

yes, I want one....but I'm tired of the speculation.

leumluath
Aug 11, 2006, 11:56 AM
isn't it about time you guys got in line with the rest of the world? GSM has more than 81% of the world market.

...the GSM providers' coverage area is inadequate. I need a phone that works most everywhere (in the US), not just along expressways and in major cities. Bad as it is, CDMA is the only practical option for those of us who travel.

bigmc6000
Aug 11, 2006, 11:57 AM
If Apple pick a carrier, I hope is not Cingular. But from past situations, that's very likely.
The ideal is a carrier free phone. That way the iphone can reach many more people and make it possible to upgrade phones without asking people to terminate their contracts.


Seriously - unlocked phones won't float in the US. The carrier gives huge discounts and most of us don't really care about switching services (a lot people just get all their friends on the same network so all calling is free). I don't care how sweet the iPhone is. I'm not gonna pay 300-400 dollars for a phone when I can get one for 20 or less and stay with the carrier I plan to stay with anyway. Also note that I get a pretty nice company discount with the big guys on my plan and most all of my friends/family are with 1 carrier so it'd really be stupid of me to go with a diff carrier...

morespce54
Aug 11, 2006, 12:11 PM
We always have "next tuesday"

LOL
Yeah, Safari already feel snappier™... Sorry, wrong tread! ;)

nsjoker
Aug 11, 2006, 12:13 PM
this phone is going to have to be pretty amazing for me to get one.. I'm talking a full-fledged iPod with capabilities of a great cell phone.. and decently priced. terminating my contract just isn't worth it from an economical point of view.

deconai
Aug 11, 2006, 12:16 PM
I really don't put too much stock in what ThinkSecret has been saying. They've really missed the mark a lot lately as far as the redesigned Mac Pro casing and other things too numerous to mention. It's almost as if they'll just publish anything that even vaguely refers to Apple. The only thing ThinkSecret is good for is keeping up with Apple lawsuit against them.

morespce54
Aug 11, 2006, 12:18 PM
Using TimeMachine, Steve is going to release it two years ago.

LOL !!!!!!! Stop it !!!!! :D

gugy
Aug 11, 2006, 12:22 PM
Seriously - unlocked phones won't float in the US. The carrier gives huge discounts and most of us don't really care about switching services (a lot people just get all their friends on the same network so all calling is free). I don't care how sweet the iPhone is. I'm not gonna pay 300-400 dollars for a phone when I can get one for 20 or less and stay with the carrier I plan to stay with anyway. Also note that I get a pretty nice company discount with the big guys on my plan and most all of my friends/family are with 1 carrier so it'd really be stupid of me to go with a diff carrier...


I agree with you. Unfortunately the USA cell phone market is sucks.
For me Apple has these options to make the iphone as popular as the ipod.

• offer it to all USA carriers. GSM and CDMA
• offer their own Apple network (hard option, because people would wait to see first if the network is reliable and wait for the end of their current carrier contracts to move to it)
• Make it very affordable to entice people to buy it. Less than $200

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 12:26 PM
CDMA is the only practical option for those of us who travel.
Travel within US perhaps. Still, you might be correct, even though I have seen posts that claims the opposite. Vz reluctance to give GSM a chance is big roadblock for you guys to get decent roaming. I use my european triband (900,1800,1900) when I fly over. I spend about 2 months per year in US. So far I havent had any problems getting connection. OK, you have some dropped calls when you drive in less populated areas. But that is reallly nothing to get upset about. Better to just redial the number than popping a vein in vain. :p
Still, life would be so much simpler for you if you at least tried to agree on one standard within your own country. Free enterprise has few, but really really annoying drawbacks.

RedTomato
Aug 11, 2006, 12:28 PM
My bets are that it will be either with Nokia or with HTC.

Nokia make the best phone interfaces in the world, which is a very Apple-like thing to do. They're also very experienced at phone hardware desigh and integrating it smoothly with the interface.

HTC are a taiwan company that design and make the best phone hardware in the world, and then sell them to companies like O2, T-Mobile etc to put their brand on. Most HTC-built phones run Windows Mobile, which Apple may be interested in replaceing with OSX Mobile...

I can quite easily see Apple commisisoning HTC to make a Apple phone, these people are simply the best at hardware phone design and manufacture.

Someone suggested Blackberry, but Blackberry is more geared to corporate use - not a very Apple-like sector - and also are quite heavily dependent on having access to a Windows server to get the most out of your phone.

Overall, I feel it will be HTC and OSX Mobile...

ccrandall77
Aug 11, 2006, 12:28 PM
isn't it about time you guys got in line with the rest of the world? GSM has more than 81% (http://www.gsacom.com/news/gsa_203.php4?PHPSESSID=7aa4036fa6a16fe0066d2e6dc9430727) of the world market. If you get a cdma phone you are more or less restriced to use it in US, whereas a GSM phone can be used more or less all over the planet.

Why? First of all, with CDMA2000 I get great coverage in N. America. Second, it's not like most people in N. America regularly travel to Europe. Third, CDMA2000 is a superior technology. EDGE only gave me 128Kbps for data but with EVDO I peak at 700Kbps. Fourth, with Verizon and Sprint you can get a CDMA/GSM phone if you REALLY need to travel abroad.

I could also ask why the rest of the world doesn't get with the program and move to better technology with CDMA2000 like the US and parts of Asia have?

Kingsly
Aug 11, 2006, 12:40 PM
:eek: :)
I hope it is released sooner than later. My Z500 only has about a month of life left in it....

cait-sith
Aug 11, 2006, 12:44 PM
Doesn't Europe have many many carriers in each country? There's no carrier that spans the entire EU, is there?

Who wants to pay 400$ for a phone that will look like an antique 12 months from now? That's a lot of money to pay for the status of having a brand new phone.

motulist
Aug 11, 2006, 12:49 PM
... It may launch this month, or a year from now.

I think you misunderstood. By "delays that could set it back as far as next year," I interpret that to mean calendar year. So my reading of what the rumor is suggesting is that at the most it'll be released sometime within the first 3 months of 2007, or 7 months from now.

daveaudio
Aug 11, 2006, 12:53 PM
The US GSM carriers suck. T-Mobile has great customer service, but their coverage stinks. Cingular has great coverage, but they have BY FAR the worst customer service.

Plus EVDO beats the pants off of EDGE. And Verizon + Sprint + Amp'd + US Cellular + a bunch of other, smaller CDMA carriers account for over 60million potential customers in the US. If they only do a GSM version of the phone, it'll be a big mistake.


Hahahahaha you do not know much about the cell business here in the U.S. T-Mobile uses Cingulars network in a better part of the country, and Cingular uses T-Mobiles in the other parts, under a roaming deal agreement they made when Deustche Telecom bought Voicestream creating T-Mobile.
Which pretty much means your contradicting yourself by saying T-Mobile sucks and Cingular is better coverage wise.
Fact, Verizon does have the best coverage and it bends its customers over price wise due to that fact.
Fact, T-Mobile offers some of the best minute price packages of any U.S. carrier and works quite well in most metropolitan areas.
In fact they are great on the west coast, heh on Cingulars network. Which they actually are buying, becuase Cingular is trying to migrate to ATT wiresless's 850mhz GSM network. Which ATT was building when Cingular bought them, in the whole SBC gobbles up a majority of the smaller land line carriers to cobble together the new ATT!!
Sprint/Nextel? well Sprint has gotten better , but Nextel blows and is only good for the push to talk walkie talkie network.

Fact GSM is a world standard, yes CDMA is better yes W CDMA is great but until everyone is full 3G it does not mean ****.
5 years ago they were talking about going 3G next year. 5 years ago!!
Hell I have only now seen 3G phones that can handle UTMS ( Japan).
To bring my post back on topic.
Apple doing a Cellphone? bad move in my opinion as bad as Microsoft doing the Ipod. Wait, Microsoft is doing that, hahhahhahhaha. Fear Apple going down that road. Its a really rough business.
That said if they fill certain requirements I have for a cell phone I would buy it. Preferred unlocked.

Chris Bangle
Aug 11, 2006, 12:55 PM
http://www.t3.co.uk/news/247/communications/mobile_phone/jobs_blabbing_iphone_details


This is an interesting take from my 2nd favorite magazine. Nokia and apple.. I just think nokia are launching an music downlaod service but see what T3 say... (1st favortie is Top Gear.)

ccrandall77
Aug 11, 2006, 12:56 PM
Hahahahaha you do not know much about the cell business here in the U.S. T-Mobile uses Cingulars network in a better part of the country, and Cingular uses T-Mobiles in the other parts, under a roaming deal agreement they made when Deustche Telecom bought Voicestream creating T-Mobile.

Hahahaha you obviously have not been a customer of either T-Mo or Cingular. And if you looked at their coverage maps, Cingular's coverage is quite a bit better than T-Mobile's. Yes, they do share SOME towers, but not all.

daveaudio
Aug 11, 2006, 01:04 PM
Hahahaha you obviously have not been a customer of either T-Mo or Cingular. And if you looked at their coverage maps, Cingular's coverage is quite a bit better than T-Mobile's. Yes, they do share SOME towers, but not all.
Hahahha coverage maps don't mean jack.Everyone in the wireless business knows they are gross approximations of the reality.
I was on Cingular from when they were PacBell wireless through 2 years of Cingular. I am on T-Mobile for 3 plus years. I have friends on all the major carriers as well so I have compared. I use a Unlocked Motorola V620 yes a European phone never officially sold in the U.S. It Alpha tags off the Tower not off the sim chip. T-Mobile and Cingular did a good job of software programming so their phones would Alpha tag off the sim chip instead of the Towers for their branded locked phones.
I can pretty much travel anywhere in the country and tell you exactly who's Tower is being used. All of California is Cingular Towers. Oregon is T-Mobile, Chicago area is T-Mobile and oh yeah works really well.
I know the cell business pretty damn well. you might as well give up your losing this debate.

Donz0r
Aug 11, 2006, 01:06 PM
What OS will the iPhone be running? :confused:
If people want a Treo replacement, you are going to have top consider:
1. calendar - hopefully you can port over Palm to iCal
2. contacts - to Mail/Address book
3. will there be a keyboard - personally I send a lot of mail/texts so would want to keep the "thumb-board" ;)

I dont think that the iPhone will be an all-in-one smartphone replacement. The demographic using those kinds of phones (for the MOST part) are business people who mean business when it comes to their phones. They'll want to keep the windows/palm integration which works so well with their PCs.

That being said, it might be a good move to drag in some more switchers and showing the business world that apple means business, and can handle business.

All in all though, I really think it'll be a normal cell phone with great mp3 capabilities , possibly video chat, and some new feature that we can't think of.

peharri
Aug 11, 2006, 01:10 PM
If Apple does decide they're going to compete with, rather than cooperate with, existing cellphone manufacturers, they will lose their dominance over online music.

They have to cooperate with cellphone manufacturers because MP3 playing cellphones will end up being the future of portable music. Apple cannot make its own phone and expect to have even 10% of the entire market. Without its dominant market share, the iTMS will end up looking less attractive to the music industry - an industry already, by all accounts, upset with and wanting to get away from, iTMS - and will be deserted faster than you can say "90% of phones support Windows Media".

I don't believe this story. It doesn't make sense. Jobs crowing over a new product which by rights ought to be veiled in secrecy strikes me as insane. Apple producing a cellphone strikes me as insane. If I were a shareholder, I'd be calling up Steve Jobs personally and demanding answers.

That said, if it's any good, it's quadband, and supports EDGE and Bluetooth (and maybe UMA if the carriers can get their fingers out), I might buy one.

meghop
Aug 11, 2006, 01:10 PM
Is it possible for Apple to release a phone sold in their stores that would work on all networks? Or have several versions of the phone that will work for Verizon, Cingular...

God I hope this is true. I seriously hate that phones and networks are always tied together. I always end up paying more for an unlocked phone because i tend to buy a really nice phone and then keep it for 3-4 years instead of getting the free or super cheap phone from a different provider every year or so. I also hate the idea of being forced to switch to a certain provider to get a certain phone. I suppose someone somwhere will be selling unlocked iPhones on ebay when it comes out, and I'll just buy it that way, the way I did my last phone. Wish I could just walk into an Apple store and buy one, slap in my sim card, and be good to go though... :D

peharri
Aug 11, 2006, 01:13 PM
Hahahha coverage maps don't mean jack.Everyone in the wireless business knows they are gross approximations of the reality.
I was on Cingular from when they were PacBell wireless through 2 years of Cingular. I am on T-Mobile for 3 plus years. I have friends on all the major carriers as well so I have compared. I use a Unlocked Motorola V620 yes a European phone never officially sold in the U.S. It Alpha tags off the Tower not off the sim chip. T-Mobile and Cingular did a good job of software programming so their phones would Alpha tag off the sim chip instead of the Towers for their branded locked phones.
I can pretty much travel anywhere in the country and tell you exactly who's Tower is being used. All of California is Cingular Towers. Oregon is T-Mobile, Chicago area is T-Mobile and oh yeah works really well.
I know the cell business pretty damn well. you might as well give up your losing this debate.

Sorry but that's completely untrue. I too have a European cellphone (a V635. Megapixel camera. Transflash cards. EDGE. BT. Mmmmmm) and I can tell you in Florida there is no such sharing. I'd know this even if I didn't use an unlocked phone - when you're able to get a strong Cingular signal but no T-Mobile, and vice versa, you know they're not tower sharing.

It may be true that in some parts of the country they're tower sharing, but it certainly isn't true everywhere. Certainly the agreement where they did that initially during the original AT&T and Cingular GSM roll-outs expired years ago.

ldenman
Aug 11, 2006, 01:13 PM
*woot*

Please let it be good so I can trash my Treo.

Seriously! I can't wait to see Apple's Phone blow my treo out of the water.

zap2
Aug 11, 2006, 01:19 PM
Ill only buy it if stupid little spoilt english kids dont buy it, i dont mean posh english kids but yobbish ones, I want it to be the coolest thing in the world. The nano has become the essential for yobbish teenage boys and girls in the uk and I just want those stupid turds to stick to their quote "amazing black v3's with itunes and video" which dont actually have itunes and video!!!!!!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: Im not ageist because im 16.....


Do you really care that much about what people think? If people have something does that really make it "uncool"? Perhaps you should stop care if people like it, hate it , or kill for it, and make up your own option about it based on your likes and dislike about how it looks, works and acts(in this case how bug the software/hardware is)

BUt i'd love to see unlocked phones that can work on all major phone cell companys, they could be price but if they do lots of stuff people will buy it.. it might also be a good idea to release deals with companys(2 year agreements would get it cheaper but you can still buy it unlocked from the Apple store

sam10685
Aug 11, 2006, 01:19 PM
Now what I WANT that might not happen:




8) Lightweight, small FF

that would be a definite for Apple... also, i think this thing will be really really awesome considering the fact that Steve Jobs himself is already boasting about it... he never does that prior to a release. (unless he's previewing something for us like he just did with Leopard.)

ccrandall77
Aug 11, 2006, 01:24 PM
Hahahha coverage maps don't mean jack.Everyone in the wireless business knows they are gross approximations of the reality.
I was on Cingular from when they were PacBell wireless through 2 years of Cingular. I am on T-Mobile for 3 plus years. I have friends on all the major carriers as well so I have compared. I use a Unlocked Motorola V620 yes a European phone never officially sold in the U.S. It Alpha tags off the Tower not off the sim chip. T-Mobile and Cingular did a good job of software programming so their phones would Alpha tag off the sim chip instead of the Towers for their branded locked phones.
I can pretty much travel anywhere in the country and tell you exactly who's Tower is being used. All of California is Cingular Towers. Oregon is T-Mobile, Chicago area is T-Mobile and oh yeah works really well.
I know the cell business pretty damn well. you might as well give up your losing this debate.
Noob you think you know a lot, but you obviously don't. I work in the cell industry creating software for mobile phones. I have had EVERY major US carrier and as recently as the beginning of this year I've done testing of the big 4 (VZW, Sprint, Cingular, T-Mo) and I can tell you that the coverage differs greatly amongst them. Congrats on your great coverage with T-Mo. As someone who regularly travels in the Midwest, Toronot area, and San Jose, I can most assuredly tell you that T-Mo Coverage != Cingular coverage everywhere.

Oh, and I doubt the coverage map for T-Mobile is in error in GA, FL, and other states when nearly the entire state is NOT COVERED on their own coverage map.

Weak.

fblack
Aug 11, 2006, 01:28 PM
I'm not sure it will be as feature rich as some expect--remember ease of use seldom plays well with complexity.

However, I am eager to see what comes of this and preferably soon. As I am now on my 3rd replacement RAZR which is begining to have problems.:mad:

noel4r
Aug 11, 2006, 01:32 PM
The iPhone rumor has been going on for years. I just hope it's worth the long wait.

vand0576
Aug 11, 2006, 01:39 PM
am i the only one here that really thinks this is just a pathetic to even think apple is coming out with a phone? Personally, I can not see apple coming out with one. Honestly, I'm quite sick of hearing all of these posts about potential iPhone stuff. i just dont believe it would happen.

From what we're read so far, especially the quote that went something like: "it's not like we're sitting around not doing anything." or however it went, and everybody read this:

It's not a question of if, it's a question of WHEN

I just find it rather funny that so many people are already giving it the name iPhone. I think that is the worst name ever, and a little too predictable. Even the false "iChat Mobile" was a far superior name.

Mal
Aug 11, 2006, 01:40 PM
My bets are that it will be either with Nokia or with HTC.

Nokia make the best phone interfaces in the world, which is a very Apple-like thing to do. They're also very experienced at phone hardware desigh and integrating it smoothly with the interface.

HTC are a taiwan company that design and make the best phone hardware in the world, and then sell them to companies like O2, T-Mobile etc to put their brand on. Most HTC-built phones run Windows Mobile, which Apple may be interested in replaceing with OSX Mobile...

I can quite easily see Apple commisisoning HTC to make a Apple phone, these people are simply the best at hardware phone design and manufacture.

Someone suggested Blackberry, but Blackberry is more geared to corporate use - not a very Apple-like sector - and also are quite heavily dependent on having access to a Windows server to get the most out of your phone.

Overall, I feel it will be HTC and OSX Mobile...

I'll second the HTC vote. The Cingular 8125 (an HTC PDA phone) is an awesome design and a well-built phone. I'd love it if it wasn't Windows Mobile.

jW

stormj
Aug 11, 2006, 01:41 PM
Here are some of the issues with the iPod phone.

In order to make the biggest splash, it will have to be available in both GSM and CDMA versions so that all of the big 4 carriers can use it. GSM is the international standard, so I'm sure they will have that *at least*.

In order for it to matter, it will have to be able to access the music store over the air. Have you tried downloading an MP3 file, even on an EDGE connection? It sucks.

The delay here has more to do with the networks. Until the 3G networks are fully rolled out (EV-DO on Verizon, UTMS on GSM, etc. etc.) and available beyond a few cities, this phone will just frustrate people. (Verizon's rollout has gone much further, but I would think given that CDMA is rare outside of the US that that fails to compensate for the fact that the GSM 3G is still in just a few markets.)

The latest rumor is that wide-spread UTMS roll out will be in Q1 2007. When that happens, we'll see an iPod phone. It's not as if Apple couldn't have made an Apple-rific phone by now. The limitation isn't theirs, it's the networks'.

In the meantime, you can get an HTC Tytn that will use 3G world wide and will play MediaPlayer... if you're into M$.

AvSRoCkCO1067
Aug 11, 2006, 01:41 PM
From what we're read so far, especially the quote that went something like: "it's not like we're sitting around not doing anything." or however it went, and everybody read this:

It's not a question of if, it's a question of WHEN

I just find it rather funny that so many people are already giving it the name iPhone. I think that is the worst name ever, and a little too predictable. Even the false "iChat Mobile" was a far superior name.

I don't think anyone actually thinks it will be called the 'iPhone' - instead, we're just using that highly generic name until we find out what it really will be called...

boncellis
Aug 11, 2006, 01:43 PM
There's something fishy about this "story." The premise just seems unlikely.

That said, I think Apple will end up doing something about the gradual encroachment of their market share by mobile phone manufacturers. There are some qualifiers, however:

* It can't cannibalize iPod sales, which means either the "iPhone" will somehow be limited, or the iPod will see new features separating the two.

* It will have to be more than just a mobile phone with iTunes, integrating essential smartphone functions and something else that makes it stand out (maybe VoIP capability).

These are pretty obvious when you think about it, and I'm sure Apple has been thinking about it for some time. An Apple mobile phone could be imminent, you can sometimes tell by looking around the industry and spotting the "preemptive" or anticipatory products from competitors. It's not an accident that the LG "chocolate" phone looks a lot like the iPod Nano, in my opinion.

stormj
Aug 11, 2006, 01:43 PM
Noob you think you know a lot, but you obviously don't. I work in the cell industry creating software for mobile phones. I have had EVERY major US carrier and as recently as the beginning of this year I've done testing of the big 4 (VZW, Sprint, Cingular, T-Mo) and I can tell you that the coverage differs greatly amongst them. Congrats on your great coverage with T-Mo. As someone who regularly travels in the Midwest, Toronot area, and San Jose, I can most assuredly tell you that T-Mo Coverage != Cingular coverage everywhere.

Oh, and I doubt the coverage map for T-Mobile is in error in GA, FL, and other states when nearly the entire state is NOT COVERED on their own coverage map.

Weak.

Well, to be fair, your radio ROM/software can have some effect on your reception, and different companies release different radio software at different times, and that can have some effect.

My 8125 has a t-mobile radio ROM, but I run it on cingular. There are a few wrinkles in that, but you are generally correct.

stormj
Aug 11, 2006, 01:45 PM
If Apple pick a carrier, I hope is not Cingular. But from past situations, that's very likely.
The ideal is a carrier free phone. That way the iphone can reach many more people and make it possible to upgrade phones without asking people to terminate their contracts.

There is no way there won't be a GSM version. Maybe you'll have to buy it in Europe or Japan, and it might not be quad band, but there will be. There are only a handful of countries besides the US where there is anything but GSM.

I predict any Apple phone will be available at apple stores, unlocked, and for GSM/UTMS.

vand0576
Aug 11, 2006, 01:46 PM
...There's no way in the world Apple would make as much money off of this as if they got in with one of the big guys. Just ask Disney - ESPN mobile is bombing as is Disney mobile....

They are failing because they believe media content is what is important to people. Pumping their phones full of media and "services" which only are really advertisements that don't help anyone but Disney and ESPN. They are phones with superficial artificial sustainance.

Technology wouldn't be such a boom if people couldn't advertise with it some way. Apple will only succeed if it can avoid this and make a product that is functional and serves a true purpose in the consumer's life without the bullcrap content.

ccrandall77
Aug 11, 2006, 01:47 PM
Well, to be fair, your radio ROM/software can have some effect on your reception, and different companies release different radio software at different times, and that can have some effect.

My 8125 has a t-mobile radio ROM, but I run it on cingular. There are a few wrinkles in that, but you are generally correct.

You are correct. With my testing, I used an unlocked Nokia 6620 (originally from Cingular) with both T-Mo and Cingular SIMs. Also did the same with a SE T610 (unlocked, but originally T-Mo). In both cases, I found Cingular's service (NOT CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!) much better.

stormj
Aug 11, 2006, 01:48 PM
What I gather would really make the iPhone something special:

Have the storage capacity of an iPod nano.
Work with 3G networks.
Built in iSight.
Integrates standard OS X applications: Mail, iCal, AddressBook, and iChatMobile with video and audio integration.
Works as a front row remote.
Intergrates with iLife: iTunes (itms), iPhoto, and iMovie. Perhaps GarageBand ring-tone capability in the future.
Integrates with .Mac.
Mobile Dashboard.
Bluetooth
WIFI
VOIP (through wifi and/or integration with your computer with a dialer widget)
A windows version with some integration, but limited.
A real TimeMachine (okay, just kidding on this one)


How it functions hardware wise, there’s been so much speculation as far as touch sensitive keypads and touch sensitive screens, the verdict is out on this one. I think the sidekick and blackberrys have it down, but wouldn’t be surprised if Apple could take it to the next level. It certainly will be interesting to see what they do.

I wholeheartedly agree with this, especially the 3G aspect and the iCal etc. integration.

It simply must have 3G or else the itunes store won't work without MAJOR annoyance.

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 01:50 PM
I could also ask why the rest of the world doesn't get with the program and move to better technology with CDMA2000 like the US and parts of Asia have?
As I said before GSM has 81% of the market. UMTS (W-CDMA) enable hand-over back and forth UMTS and GSM. CDMA2000 can not do hand-over between GSM and CDMA2000. (See Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W-CDMA): "The CDMA family of standards (including cdmaOne and CDMA2000) are not compatible with the W-CDMA family of standards that are based on ITU standards.")
Hence all networks that has GSM will transfer to UMTS since this decrases their initial investment as they transfer from 2/2.5G to 3G. Changing network standad is expensive, but the GSM/EDGE marketshare has been growing in US and will most likely continue to grow. At the same time CDMA is non-existant in europe.
The conclusion is simple - CDMA2000 is in the long run as dead as betamax.

stormj
Aug 11, 2006, 01:51 PM
The US GSM carriers suck. T-Mobile has great customer service, but their coverage stinks. Cingular has great coverage, but they have BY FAR the worst customer service.

Plus EVDO beats the pants off of EDGE. And Verizon + Sprint + Amp'd + US Cellular + a bunch of other, smaller CDMA carriers account for over 60million potential customers in the US. If they only do a GSM version of the phone, it'll be a big mistake.

EDGE is not meant to compare with EVDO, UTMS is.

Can you imagine them making the phone only for CDMA? That translates to "US only." There will be a GSM version, it will most likely support UTMS, which is as good or better than EVDO.

Even assuming for the sake of argument, which I don't in reality, that CDMA is better than GSM for voice, the annoyance of not being able to swap SIM cards is enough for me to avoid it.

That and the fact I can't use it anywhere outside the US.

vand0576
Aug 11, 2006, 01:53 PM
My bets are that it will be either with Nokia or with HTC.

Nokia make the best phone interfaces in the world, which is a very Apple-like thing to do. They're also very experienced at phone hardware desigh and integrating it smoothly with the interface.

HTC are a taiwan company that design and make the best phone hardware in the world, and then sell them to companies like O2, T-Mobile etc to put their brand on. Most HTC-built phones run Windows Mobile, which Apple may be interested in replaceing with OSX Mobile...

I can quite easily see Apple commisisoning HTC to make a Apple phone, these people are simply the best at hardware phone design and manufacture.

Someone suggested Blackberry, but Blackberry is more geared to corporate use - not a very Apple-like sector - and also are quite heavily dependent on having access to a Windows server to get the most out of your phone.

Overall, I feel it will be HTC and OSX Mobile...


Um, I think the point is that it is an Apple phone. Apple would make it. Otherwise we end up with the Motorola ROKR or which ever other models they have that "feature" iTunes.

Westside guy
Aug 11, 2006, 01:54 PM
Hahahahaha you do not know much about the cell business here in the U.S. T-Mobile uses Cingulars network in a better part of the country, and Cingular uses T-Mobiles in the other parts, under a roaming deal agreement they made when Deustche Telecom bought Voicestream creating T-Mobile.
Which pretty much means your contradicting yourself by saying T-Mobile sucks and Cingular is better coverage wise.

Sorry, but I'm a T-Mobile customer, and unless this is the world's best-kept secret and needs some special authorization - what you're saying is patently false. T-Mobile's coverage area is rather bad.

My wife went to visit her folks a few weeks ago (in small-town USA) and couldn't make cell calls for much of the drive nor during her stay. A friend's Cingular phone had no such problems over much the same region.

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 01:54 PM
Doesn't Europe have many many carriers in each country? There's no carrier that spans the entire EU, is there?
We have many carriers in each country in europe, but we all of them have the same system which allows roaming between networks.
Who wants to pay 400$ for a phone that will look like an antique 12 months from now? That's a lot of money to pay for the status of having a brand new phone.
Why not?
People pay $399 for an iPod today that is antique within 12 months...

BornAgainMac
Aug 11, 2006, 01:54 PM
Mac Mobile should be the name of the phone. Remember that Steve said he wants Mac in the name. Mac Mobile will be perfect. Complete with Pocket Photo, Pocket Movie, Pocket Tunes, and Pocket iChat.

ccrandall77
Aug 11, 2006, 01:59 PM
As I said before GSM has 81% of the market. UMTS (W-CDMA) enable hand-over back and forth UMTS and GSM. CDMA2000 can not do hand-over between GSM and CDMA2000. (See Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W-CDMA): "The CDMA family of standards (including cdmaOne and CDMA2000) are not compatible with the W-CDMA family of standards that are based on ITU standards.")
Hence all networks that has GSM will transfer to UMTS since this decrases their initial investment as they transfer from 2/2.5G to 3G. Changing network standad is expensive, but the GSM/EDGE marketshare has been growing in US and will most likely continue to grow. At the same time CDMA is non-existant in europe.
The conclusion is simple - CDMA2000 is in the long run as dead as betamax.
If long run is 10yrs, I'll grant you that. But in the US and much of Asia (Australia maybe) where there's CDMA carriers, CDMA2000 1x-EVDx is going to be around for a while.
Actually WCDMA also inherits much of it's tech from CDMA/IS-95 and I have seen some documentation that shows that WCDMA can be compatible with CDMA2000 just like UTMS/WCDMA is compatible with GSM. But it sounds as if the upgrade path for GSM/GPRS/EDGE to WCDMA is easier than going from CDMA2000 1x to WCDMA.

But since for the next several years CDMA2000 1x-EVDO will be better than the GSM related technologies. And by the time WCDMA takes over, the iPhone will be as antiquated as the Newton.

Apple needs to create both versions as CDMA has about 5x% of the US market... and Apple has and probably will continue to cater to the US market first.

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 01:59 PM
Hell I have only now seen 3G phones that can handle UTMS ( Japan).
Hmmm, I dumped/retired my first UTMS cellphone more than a year ago... and I live in Sweden. Moreover, Japan have had UTMS phones longer than in Sweden

ccrandall77
Aug 11, 2006, 02:03 PM
EDGE is not meant to compare with EVDO, UTMS is.

Can you imagine them making the phone only for CDMA? That translates to "US only." There will be a GSM version, it will most likely support UTMS, which is as good or better than EVDO.

Even assuming for the sake of argument, which I don't in reality, that CDMA is better than GSM for voice, the annoyance of not being able to swap SIM cards is enough for me to avoid it.

That and the fact I can't use it anywhere outside the US.

I agree that EVDO is more analgous to UTMS than EDGE, but for now in most places UTMS is not present... esp the US. So when I compare CDMA technologies to GSM technologies for domestic carriers, the CDMA camp wins hands down.

There are many places CDMA is used outside the US. From the maps I've seen, much of Asia, Australia, and the Americas have CDMA coverage. And has I mentioned in a previous post, the big 2 (VZW and Sprint) do offer hybrid CDMA/GSM phones (or at least they did... we can still apparently get them through our business).

I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree about your point on SIM cards. I wish to God Sprint had SIM cards. I have a Treo 700p and I LOVE IT!!! But I don't want to haul it around with me everywhere. Frequently I steal my wife's new Samsung A900 since it's so thin and is hardly noticable in my pocket. I'd love to have the freedom to have 1 line and 2 phones.

DakotaGuy
Aug 11, 2006, 02:05 PM
The only way this iPhone or whatever it is called will be successful is if they team up with a carrier or carriers and offer promotions on it like all the other cell phone manufactures do. I am not sure about Europe or other parts of the world, but people are used to getting a decent phone for not much money either at their initial contract or every 2 years when the contract is up. Selling an unlocked phone at some outrageous price ($200-300) is not going to cut it when I can go down and get a decent phone for around $50 with rebates from the cell provider and whoever made the phone.

Now I know there are plenty of people who would buy an Apple phone no matter the price, but if you are going to compete with companies like Motorola, Nokia, Samsung, etc. you have to work with carriers and provide great contract prices.

The whole CDMA v. GSM debate is kind of like the PowerPC v. x86 debate.lol Actually from everything I have read CDMA is actually the newer of the 2 technologies and actually has a lot of benefits over GSM. In then end however, both work fine. I think in the US you will find CDMA has a lot better coverage if you look at the coverage maps on the providers websites. With GSM you hit a lot of dead space especially in the rural areas. CDMA pretty much covers the entire US. Now in Europe I know it is different and that GSM is the standard.

yoak
Aug 11, 2006, 02:05 PM
I´ll buy one. It´s a while untill I have to upgrade my Ericsson, so maybe around that time.
great to only have to carry one item as opposed to ipod AND phone.
My Ericsson is a walkman phone, and dosen´t work to well with mac. iTuneMyPhone saved the day though, at least with this little script I can transfer songs onto it.

freeny
Aug 11, 2006, 02:06 PM
If Apple pick a carrier, I hope is not Cingular. But from past situations, that's very likely.
All carriers suck in one way or another. If you are unhappy with one you just switch to another. There is a constant migration from carrier to carrier because of this...

The carriers dont give a crap if you leave them because there is always a group of unhappy consumers who hate the competitor and are ready to move to their service.

This is why it takes forever to cancell a cellular account, they will try as hard as possible to not let you or talk you out of it. Its their only ammunition. My wife and I spent 2 hours on the phone with Sprint last week trying to cancel our extra phone we usually give our nanny. They were giving the most rediculous excuses as to why we shoud keep it when we no longer had any use for it. They wouldnt take no for an answer. It wasnt until we threatend to cancel all three of our accounts that they "graciously" cancelled the account.

This is also why there are such high cancelation fees. apparently people are willing to pay hundreds of dollars to get away from any of the providers...

Bottom line; it doesnt matter what provider it would be, youll be screwed anyway.

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 02:09 PM
If long run is 10yrs, I'll grant you that. But in the US and much of Asia (Australia maybe) where there's CDMA carriers, CDMA2000 1x-EVDx is going to be around for a while.
Actually WCDMA also inherits much of it's tech from CDMA/IS-95 and I have seen some documentation that shows that WCDMA can be compatible with CDMA2000 just like UTMS/WCDMA is compatible with GSM. But it sounds as if the upgrade path for GSM/GPRS/EDGE to WCDMA is easier than going from CDMA2000 1x to WCDMA.

But since for the next several years CDMA2000 1x-EVDO will be better than the GSM related technologies. And by the time WCDMA takes over, the iPhone will be as antiquated as the Newton.

Apple needs to create both versions as CDMA has about 5x% of the US market... and Apple has and probably will continue to cater to the US market first.
OK. let us just cut to the chase. The keyword here is hand-over. CDMA2000 doesnt support it from GSM. GSM has 81%. Hence cdma is and will always be a small local network that can be used in small pockets on this planet. Furthermore, I seriously doubt ITU/FOMA will change anything in the standard to allow any compability for CDMA2000 since it is not in their interest.
The faster cdam/CDMA2000 moves to oblivion the better.
We would all benefit from one standard, cheaper phones, worldwide access, lower minute rates (from higher competition) Just look at how Vz bills you.
Having multiple standard on cellphones is just as clever as having two incompatible internet.

zac4mac
Aug 11, 2006, 02:14 PM
I'm on my 3rd cell phone now. First was a panasonic brick and was CDMA. It totally sucked. Switched to GSM 2 years ago but initially Cingular sent the wrong phone - an LG flip. Reception was as bad as the CDMA but roaming was much better. After 3 weeks, I got the phone I ordered, a t637 and I love it. I have NO desire to go back to CDMA and I won't lose the tight BT link I have to my Macs with the t637, but it's getting old and due replacement.

I'm watching and waiting...

Z

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 02:21 PM
Now in Europe I know it is different and that GSM is the standard.
It is more like 81% of the world market.

ccrandall77
Aug 11, 2006, 02:21 PM
OK. let us just cut to the chase. The keyword here is hand-over. CDMA2000 doesnt support it from GSM. GSM has 81%. Hence cdma is and will always be a small local network that can be used in small pockets on this planet. Furthermore, I seriously doubt ITU/FOMA will change anything in the standard to allow any compability for CDMA2000 since it is not in their interest.
The faster cdam/CDMA2000 moves to oblivion the better.
We would all benefit from one standard, cheaper phones, worldwide access, lower minute rates (from higher competition) Just look at how Vz bills you.
Having multiple standard on cellphones is just as clever as having two incompatible internet.

I wouldn't call over 50% of the N American market a small, local network. Time will tell whether GSM or CDMA will win out. I agree in the long run WCDMA has more upside, but who knows what'll come out in the next few years.

VZW doesn't bill me. I hate VZW for crippling phones and expensive service. I have good service from Sprint, similar capabilities, and the plans are very reasonable... and they are CDMA.

gugy
Aug 11, 2006, 02:22 PM
All carriers suck in one way or another. If you are unhappy with one you just switch to another. There is a constant migration from carrier to carrier because of this...

The carriers dont give a crap if you leave them because there is always a group of unhappy consumers who hate the competitor and are ready to move to their service.

This is why it takes forever to cancell a cellular account, they will try as hard as possible to not let you or talk you out of it. Its their only ammunition. My wife and I spent 2 hours on the phone with Sprint last week trying to cancel our extra phone we usually give our nanny. They were giving the most rediculous excuses as to why we shoud keep it when we no longer had any use for it. They wouldnt take no for an answer. It wasnt until we threatend to cancel all three of our accounts that they "graciously" cancelled the account.

This is also why there are such high cancelation fees. apparently people are willing to pay hundreds of dollars to get away from any of the providers...

Bottom line; it doesnt matter what provider it would be, youll be screwed anyway.

It's true. I had Cingular and I hated it. Now I have Verizon, it's sucks but better than Cingular for my circumstances.
Hopefully, Apple will have a solution that will help us say goodbye to all those lame carriers.

Westside guy
Aug 11, 2006, 02:27 PM
Hmm... maybe I stand corrected on this - see paragraph three (or four, if you count bullet points as a paragrapn).

T-Mobile USA to End Network Venture with Cingular and Acquire California/Nevada Network and Spectrum (http://www.t-mobile.com/company/PressReleases_Article.aspx?assetName=Prs_Prs_20040525&title=T-Mobile%20USA%20to%20End%20Network%20Venture%20with%20Cingular%20and%20Acquire%20California/Nevada%20Network%20and%20Spectrum)

I was curious; so I went into my V600's network settings and found a Cingular network. I registered with it, and was able to make a call.

I don't understand why this isn't automatic though. I don't always have coverage at times when my Cingular-using office mate does.

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 02:29 PM
I wouldn't call over 50% of the N American market a small, local network.
I am sorry, but it is... 150 million people is a small market compared to the other +6 billion people. Europe alone is more than 700 million people...

bigmc6000
Aug 11, 2006, 02:31 PM
They are failing because they believe media content is what is important to people. Pumping their phones full of media and "services" which only are really advertisements that don't help anyone but Disney and ESPN. They are phones with superficial artificial sustainance.

Technology wouldn't be such a boom if people couldn't advertise with it some way. Apple will only succeed if it can avoid this and make a product that is functional and serves a true purpose in the consumer's life without the bullcrap content.

It's same issue of turning people from Windows to a Mac but WORSE. If people had to pay MS a fee for switching I doubt it'd be more than about 1% share. And that's what the US business is right now. Sure there are going to be a few people who pay the 170 to get out of their contract and then another 300 for the iPhone and then, most likely, an increase in their calling plan becuase now noone is free mobile to mobile.

We've headed down this contract path and I personally think it's fine. I don't plan on switching carriers all that often and if it saves me $280 off of a phone for a service I'm going to subscribe to anyway I say go for it.

Really - please pick Cingular - my g/f has it and won't get rid of it so I"m stuck. That's my plea to Steve - PLEASE!!!!

mmmcheese
Aug 11, 2006, 02:32 PM
Although I'd be interested in an Apple created phone (depending on what it turned out to be), I doubt they will come out with a CDMA version....so in the end I'll be SOL anyway...

jaxstate
Aug 11, 2006, 02:37 PM
Apple will choose Cingular because they lock their phones and T-Mobile don't.:rolleyes:

asphalt-proof
Aug 11, 2006, 02:38 PM
If Apple pick a carrier, I hope is not Cingular. But from past situations, that's very likely.
The ideal is a carrier free phone. That way the iphone can reach many more people and make it possible to upgrade phones without asking people to terminate their contracts.

I agree that a carrier free ohone is the way to go but a carrier-subsudized phone is cheaper for the consumer (or at least appears that way in the beginning). I think there maybe networ issues as well. Doesn't Verizon or Nextel operate on a different freq than Cingular/AtT? Not sure.

DakotaGuy
Aug 11, 2006, 02:39 PM
It is more like 81% of the world market.

MS Windows has about 95% of the world market...doesn't mean the technology is better.:)

jaxstate
Aug 11, 2006, 02:40 PM
It will not be carrier free. They'll be able to see more phone buy letting them go for a cheaper price w/2-year agreement. Buying a celly without a plan can be quite expensive.

jhedges3
Aug 11, 2006, 02:40 PM
OK. let us just cut to the chase. The keyword here is hand-over. CDMA2000 doesnt support it from GSM. GSM has 81%. Hence cdma is and will always be a small local network that can be used in small pockets on this planet. Furthermore, I seriously doubt ITU/FOMA will change anything in the standard to allow any compability for CDMA2000 since it is not in their interest.
The faster cdam/CDMA2000 moves to oblivion the better.
We would all benefit from one standard, cheaper phones, worldwide access, lower minute rates (from higher competition) Just look at how Vz bills you.
Having multiple standard on cellphones is just as clever as having two incompatible internet.
I couldn't care less about whether my phone works well in the EU. What is your data on the percentage of consumers that travel the world to such an extent that they purchase their phones with inter-country usability as their primary consideration?
What maters to me more, not most, is that the phone works well were I make the majority of calls, New York. The majority of people I know do the same. Some people are willing to sacrifice network for phone and a few extra dollars a month, they pref TM and similar carriers. Others want to have better network and get VW and pay for that accordingly.
It seems to me that there is some level of implicit, or not so implicit, EU v US on both sides here. To the person in the EU they should have it first cause, LEST WE NOT FORGET, most of them are using a standard with 81% of the world.
But does anyone really believe that App would bring a phone to market without making it widely available to US consumers, regardless of whether we’re in the 19% minority? Is there any history of this? Have they ever, for example, released new gen iPods late here? Have they ever, for example, released new gen iPods in Sweden first and had the rest of us in the US buying them on eBay from the lucky ones in Stockholm? It simply wouldn’t make sense.
But it’s not even worth fighting over. The availability of any App phone will be sufficient to include nearly all of us; which is to say that if they release such a product all dedicated App consumers will be able to get one on some carrier at some cost.

aswitcher
Aug 11, 2006, 02:40 PM
What I gather would really make the iPhone something special:

Have the storage capacity of an iPod nano.
Work with 3G networks.
Built in iSight.
Integrates standard OS X applications: Mail, iCal, AddressBook, and iChatMobile with video and audio integration.
Works as a front row remote.
Intergrates with iLife: iTunes (itms), iPhoto, and iMovie. Perhaps GarageBand ring-tone capability in the future.
Integrates with .Mac.
Mobile Dashboard.
Bluetooth
WIFI
VOIP (through wifi and/or integration with your computer with a dialer widget)
A windows version with some integration, but limited.



I would add

2+ Megapixel camera with light (SE750i) that seemlessly syncs with iPhoto for stills and video
Builtin GPS that an track your movements for download and intergration into rumoured Leopards Maps(all the Nike features about speed etc) which can log at least 4 weeks worth of movements
Has a digital compass (part of the gps)
Has a USB adapter that allows it to plug into any computer an acts as a USB drive (like the shuffle).

jaxstate
Aug 11, 2006, 02:41 PM
You guys are looking about a $500.00 phone...atleast.
I would add

2+ Megapixel camera with light (SE750i) that seemlessly syncs with iPhoto for stills and video
Builtin GPS that an track your movements for download and intergration into rumoured Leopards Maps(all the Nike features about speed etc) which can log at least 4 weeks worth of movements
Has a digital compass (part of the gps)
Has a USB adapter that allows it to plug into any computer an acts as a USB drive (like the shuffle).

netdog
Aug 11, 2006, 02:42 PM
MS Windows has about 95% of the world market...doesn't mean the technology is better.:)

A phone that works in most of the world is better for many of us. Who wants a phone that won't work in Europe for instance? Last I checked, my Mac works here just fine.

jaxstate
Aug 11, 2006, 02:43 PM
My phone just happens to work in europe, but I wouldn't care if it didn't.
A phone that works in most of the world is better for many of us. Who wants a phone that won't work in Europe for instance?

DakotaGuy
Aug 11, 2006, 02:43 PM
Hence cdma is and will always be a small local network that can be used in small pockets on this planet.

I would not consider the entire United States to be just a small pocket on the planet.

~Shard~
Aug 11, 2006, 02:45 PM
I would add

2+ Megapixel camera with light (SE750i) that seemlessly syncs with iPhoto for stills and video
Builtin GPS that an track your movements for download and intergration into rumoured Leopards Maps(all the Nike features about speed etc) which can log at least 4 weeks worth of movements
Has a digital compass (part of the gps)
Has a USB adapter that allows it to plug into any computer an acts as a USB drive (like the shuffle).



All for the low, low price of?.... ;)

asphalt-proof
Aug 11, 2006, 02:45 PM
I really want Apple to make an iPhone and have it available by Christmas. I am so ready to dump my Treo. My question is, will it be MS exchange compatible (this is assuming its a PDA phone.) The work-world is addicted to Exchange and it would make sense to have it compatible. Oh well, if wishes were fishes....

netdog
Aug 11, 2006, 02:45 PM
I would not consider the entire United States to be just a small pocket on the planet.

In terms of the global mobile market, it is.

The network coverage in America is just awful too. Until I moved to England, I thought that mobile communications were generally problematic. Now I realize that American cellular service just sucks. Even in NYC.

America should have gotten on board with everyone else when networks apportioned and specified that the infrastructure must be GSM. Instead, though bandwidth is not really an open market, but is strictly regulate, they left it up to the providers to implement what they wanted. Now the USA is paying the price as the GSM network is way behind, and Qualcomm's CDMA has been rendered somewhat obsolete given that the rest of the world (other than Taiwan?) has rejected it.

gugy
Aug 11, 2006, 02:47 PM
You guys are looking about a $500.00 phone...atleast.

not just that, it's just not happening.
come on, too much stuff on a phone.
If we get a basic GOOD phone with contact list ala Apple design and ipod, that's enough. You start adding so much crap on a phone and in the end it just get overkill.

ccrandall77
Aug 11, 2006, 02:47 PM
I am sorry, but it is... 150 million people is a small market compared to the other +6 billion people. Europe alone is more than 700 million people...

Well only about 1.25bil out of the +6 actually have cell service and I'd suspect only about 300mil in Eurpoe use cell phones (according to internetworldstats.com estimates 291mil in Europe use the internet... I'd assume cell usage is similiar).

And factor in that the US, Canada and many of the other countries with CDMA service are amongst the most wealthy in the world. Those +150mil customers are nothing to sneeze at.

aswitcher
Aug 11, 2006, 02:49 PM
You guys are looking about a $500.00 phone...atleast.

Perhaps. But thats about right for a Nokia N series with most of the features we have been mentioning.

netdog
Aug 11, 2006, 02:51 PM
I really think the time is coming soon where any phone that does not have Wifi that is easy to switch on and off will be considered obsolete.

DakotaGuy
Aug 11, 2006, 02:51 PM
In terms of the global mobile market, it is.

The network coverage in America is just awful too. Until I moved to England, I thought that mobile communications were generally problematic. Now I realize that American cellular service just sucks. Even in NYC.

See now that is something I never understood, how the cell service can be so poor in a place like NYC, yet I was making calls on my CDMA phone in the middle of Wyoming this summer. In fact, there are few places in very unpopulated midwest and west that you can't get a decent signal at least with a CDMA phone. People that come here with GSM are out of luck anywhere except metro areas.

MBHockey
Aug 11, 2006, 02:51 PM
I wonder what carrier they'll go with?

Regardless, i'd be happy to see just ONE cell phone in my life time that doesn't absolutely disgust me, as each and every cell phone that has ever come out since the Zack Morris Special has.

It's truly ridiculous how awful cell phones are. Get a clue people.

jaxstate
Aug 11, 2006, 02:53 PM
We'll like a previous post said, they must release serveral phones, because i'm sure they want all the market they can get.
Perhaps. But thats about right for a Nokia N series with most of the features we have been mentioning.

netdog
Aug 11, 2006, 02:55 PM
I wonder what carrier they'll go with?


I think the question is more likely to be this...

What providers will meet Steve's qualifications to offer the Apple phone bundled with their service?

One of the primary factors may very well be that the provider is not allowed to cripple the phone (as some love to do).

If there is enough demand for the phone, network providers will have to meet his terms.

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 02:57 PM
I agree that a carrier free ohone is the way to go but a carrier-subsudized phone is cheaper for the consumer (or at least appears that way in the beginning). I think there maybe networ issues as well. Doesn't Verizon or Nextel operate on a different freq than Cingular/AtT? Not sure.
I seem to be missing some information...:confused:

First, a locked phone is ONLY a problem if you have cdma. If you go GSM the "locking" is software based and can be unlocked. The networks here unlock it for you for a fee. (others do that too but that is another story...)

Secondly, if the "iPone" is GSM based you an sell the same phone both locked and unlocked. The question whether a phone will be "subsidized" is a deal between Apple and the carrier. Just how much the phone will be is up to the carrier.
As an example: Here in europe we have vendors that sell cellphones where you can pick which carrier you want and pay different prices for the phone dependent on what carrier and type of contract you pick. However, you can also buy the buy the phone without a contract (unlocked)

...so why do we have this discussion whether this or that carrier will carry it?

If the new "iPhone" is a hit everybody will carry it. Of course, assuming Apple allows it.

jhedges3
Aug 11, 2006, 02:57 PM
See now that is something I never understood, how the cell service can be so poor in a place like NYC, yet I was making calls on my CDMA phone in the middle of Wyoming this summer. In fact, there are few places in very unpopulated midwest and west that you can't get a decent signal at least with a CDMA phone. People that come here with GSM are out of luck anywhere except metro areas.
New York has more of something than Wyoming, which is buildings. These buildings make it more difficult for signal to get to people, I think. For whatever reasons CDMA seems to work much better here than GSM.

jaxstate
Aug 11, 2006, 02:58 PM
Who wants to go through the trouble of doing a software change to unlock their phone.
I seem to be missing some information...:confused:

First, a locked phone is ONLY a problem if you have cdma. If you go GSM the "locking" is software based and can be unlocked. The networks here unlock it for you for a fee. (others do that too but that is another story...)

Secondly, if the "iPone" is GSM based you an sell the same phone both locked and unlocked. The question whether a phone will be "subsidized" is a deal between Apple and the carrier. Just how much the phone will be is up to the carrier.
As an example: Here in europe we have vendors that sell cellphones where you can pick which carrier you want and pay different prices for the phone dependent on what carrier and type of contract you pick. However, you can also buy the buy the phone without a contract (unlocked)

...so why do we have this discussion whether this or that carrier will carry it?

If the new "iPhone" is a hit everybody will carry it. Of course, assuming Apple allows it.

SiliconAddict
Aug 11, 2006, 03:02 PM
So what happens when Apple finds out the source of the leak was Jobs? Does he get fired? :p

netdog
Aug 11, 2006, 03:03 PM
As an example: Here in europe we have vendors that sell cellphones where you can pick which carrier you want and pay different prices for the phone dependent on what carrier and type of contract you pick. However, you can also buy the buy the phone without a contract (unlocked)


The market for unlocked phones in the USA is still very small. Providers will generally not unlock them, and there aren't shops on the street who will unlock phones as there are here in Europe.

When you go abroad with an American phone, you are usually limited to the service that your provider offers (through a carrier here) and you cannot just pop in another sim. This is very expensive because they know that they are holding you hostage. The first place that I would head with a new phone when I was visiting London was Tottenham Court, so that I could get the phone unlocked and pop in my local pay-as-you-talk sim.

Unlike the big network independent vendors here in Europe, usually in the USA, such vendors still only sell phones locked to various networks, and bundle in the calling plans which the shop receives a reward for. As I am sure you understand, these phones are offered with deep discounts subsidized as part of each network's customer aquisition costs, just as they are offered for free or at a reduced cost here. Unlocked phones do cost considerably more, and it is often best to buy a pay-as-you-go locked phone in Europe, and have someone unlock it for you for £10.

This is changing, but most Americans I know who have gotten their American-bought phones unlocked have mailed them away to vendors they have found on places like eBay.

The USA is a very different market.

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 03:07 PM
MS Windows has about 95% of the world market...doesn't mean the technology is better.:)
There is a huge difference between an OS and a cellphone standard. Having two cellphone standards is like having two internets. You as a customer have no idea weather you use CDMA or GSM. I dont know about you, but I use my cell for talking end send/receive data. I dont give a rats ass whether this done through code division or time division...

ccrandall77
Aug 11, 2006, 03:11 PM
The market for unlocked phones in the USA is still very small. Providers will generally not unlock them, and there aren't shops on the street who will unlock phones as there are here in Europe.

T-Mobile will unlock a phone if you've been with them for 3mos. In fact, I've had them unlock 2 phones for me in the first 2 mos I was with them and my friend who still has T-Mobile has had many phones unlocked by T-Mobile.

Cingular, on the otherhand, gave me crap about how unlocking the phone made their network insecure and other BS. They completely refuse to unlock any of their phones.

yoak
Aug 11, 2006, 03:12 PM
Who wants to go through the trouble of doing a software change to unlock their phone.

Me for one.
I have done it on all my phones. Reason is simple; when I travel outside Norway and will spend more than a week there, I´ll get a local SIM card because it´s so expensive to use my Norwegian phone (both calling and recieving) As I buy my phones locked to a provider in Norway, I have to unlock them to make this work.
Guess this is more relevant in Europe where people tend to visit different countries more often due to small distances

ccrandall77
Aug 11, 2006, 03:15 PM
There is a huge difference between an OS and a cellphone standard. Having two cellphone standards is like having two internets. You as a customer have no idea weather you use CDMA or GSM. I dont know about you, but I use my cell for talking end send/receive data. I dont give a rats ass whether this done through code division or time division...

Yes, but I do notice that my data transfers are about 5x faster on my EVDO phone than on my EDGE phone and I don't get nearly as many dropped calls when switching between towers like I did when I used T-Mobile and Cingular.

yadmonkey
Aug 11, 2006, 03:17 PM
Apple's reasons for being secretive about product releases don't apply to their potential phone because they don't have a current product which they want people to buy in the meantime. In fact, this time around, it'll be advantageous to Apple for people to know it's coming, as they may hold out for one instead of getting something else. Once there is an iPhone, then they will probably be secretive about the next version.

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 03:18 PM
(according to internetworldstats.com estimates 291mil in Europe use the internet... I'd assume cell usage is similiar).
First, what makes you think the cellusage is similar to internet????? Mind blowing step here.
Secondly, Europa has 291 million internet users; North america US&Canada 227 milion; Rest of the world 500 million
Hence europe would be close to 30% of the total market???? What about india??? Japan??? china??? come on you cant say jack *** from this statistics

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 03:22 PM
Who wants to go through the trouble of doing a software change to unlock their phone.
It is a code you are given to unlock the cell. NOT a software change, unless the carrier changes the entire phone software.

netdog
Aug 11, 2006, 03:22 PM
First, what makes you think the cellusage is similar to internet????? Mind blowing step here.
Secondly, Europa has 291 million internet users; North america US&Canada 227 milion; Rest of the world 500 million
Hence europe would be close to 30% of the total market???? What about india??? Japan??? china??? come on you cant say jack *** from this statistics

China, having bypassed installing a massive landline strucutre, now has enormous GSM network penetration.

India is also a HUGE GSM market.

shelterpaw
Aug 11, 2006, 03:23 PM
You guys are looking about a $500.00 phone...atleast.If it had all those features, it would be mure more than just a phone, I could easily party with $500.00.

jhedges3
Aug 11, 2006, 03:24 PM
First, what makes you think the cellusage is similar to internet????? Mind blowing step here.
Secondly, Europa has 291 million internet users; North america US&Canada 227 milion; Rest of the world 500 million
Hence europe would be close to 30% of the total market???? What about india??? Japan??? china??? come on you cant say jack *** from this statistics
World demographics are not the point. US consumers do not make their cell phone purchasing decisions based on signal standards in 'Europa' or elsewhere.

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 03:30 PM
I don't get nearly as many dropped calls when switching between towers like I did when I used T-Mobile and Cingular.
You know as well as I do that has to do with the signal, not whether it is Code division or time division. If you claim differently, show me reputable references.

ccrandall77
Aug 11, 2006, 03:31 PM
First, what makes you think the cellusage is similar to internet????? Mind blowing step here.
Secondly, Europa has 291 million internet users; North america US&Canada 227 milion; Rest of the world 500 million
Hence europe would be close to 30% of the total market???? What about india??? Japan??? china??? come on you cant say jack *** from this statistics

So how many people in the world do you think have cell phones? Everyone?!?! Just doing a quick Google search, there were about 1.1billion cell users in the world in 2004. So, maybe it's up to 1.5 - 1.75bil now?

Now if there's ~700mil people in the EU with a workforce just under 400mil strong and internet usage is about 300mil. Ya, it would seem reasonable that roughly the same number of people use cell phones. Do you have a better estimate? I'm sure there's a lot of elderly, children, and poor in the 700mil that use cell phones, eh?

What about India, Japan, China? First of all, India and China have median incomes that are FAR less than the US or EU... so I doubt they have a relatively large cellular user base.

And oh, let me check with my cubemate.... yep, CDMA is used in parts of China.

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 03:32 PM
China, having bypassed installing a massive landline strucutre, now has enormous GSM network penetration.

India is also a HUGE GSM market.
Exactly my point. You cant use those numbers to show anything regarding cellphone shares...

sjo
Aug 11, 2006, 03:34 PM
Well only about 1.25bil out of the +6 actually have cell service and I'd suspect only about 300mil in Eurpoe use cell phones (according to internetworldstats.com estimates 291mil in Europe use the internet... I'd assume cell usage is similiar).

And factor in that the US, Canada and many of the other countries with CDMA service are amongst the most wealthy in the world. Those +150mil customers are nothing to sneeze at.


Well now you ignorant yankie ;) Firstly the mobile phone penetration in Europe is about 99% or maybe slighly more. You should really travel a bit to get some perspective.

And secondly, GSM has user base of over 1 billion while CDMA as you said has some 60m users. Which one you think would be more interesting market to cover for a new mobile phone manufacturer? And there is really no question of "we'll see which one wins" because GSM won a long long time ago, hands down.

ecwyatt
Aug 11, 2006, 03:34 PM
I'd wager that what ever they do come out with will be considered a let down, seeing as so much hype is building around it. Its kinda like those supposed summer block-buster movies all hype but doesn't really deliver.

Also I wouldn't be surprised if it only held as many songs as the Rokr or Slvr (if any at all) anything more would threaten to encroach to much on the iPod line, and I don't think apple is dumb enough to do that.

I'd be happier if it replaced my Palm you know a Blackberry killer, since they don't communicate natively only via third party. It would have to have flawless integration with mail and 0 config wi-fi capabilities to make me even consider looking at it.

ccrandall77
Aug 11, 2006, 03:36 PM
You know as well as I do that has to do with the signal, not whether it is Code division or time division. If you claim differently, show me reputable references.

Uh, actually tower handoff has relatively little to do with signal... it's two totally different things.

Want a reference? Is the IEEE reputable enough for you?
http://www.ieee.or.com/Archive/diversity_in_3g/diversity_in_3g.pdf

Page 6: Why CDMA? Allows soft handoffs.

Enuff said.

Care to back up any of your assumptions with reputable references?

deconai
Aug 11, 2006, 03:37 PM
Well now you ignorant yankie ;) Firstly the mobile phone penetration in Europe is about 99% or maybe slighly more. You should really travel a bit to get some perspective.

And secondly, GSM has user base of over 1 billion while CDMA as you said has some 60m users. Which one you think would be more interesting market to cover for a new mobile phone manufacturer? And there is really no question of "we'll see which one wins" because GSM won a long long time ago, hands down.

Are you saying 99% of Europeans use cell phones or that 99% of Europe is cell-ready? If the former, then there must be a ton of kids yapping it up on the wireless. ;)

jmsait19
Aug 11, 2006, 03:37 PM
i just want a cell phone that works.

all these phones today(by all these phones i mean the motorolas i have had, so mayby motorola's jsut suck) have this ridiculous amount of latency when you are navigating the menus. cause they have to have all this fancy crap flyin around. its like phones are using the same technology from 5 years ago but they are just piling these features into them so they dog down. overall phones today seem to suck just a bit. my nokia 8260 was the best phone i ever had and it was monochrome with no camera or video or stupid crap like that...

plus it seems that my phones ability to get reception when inside a building has gotten worse over time too. i used to get good reception inside my work, but now i don't. and its the same building.

so all in all, just give me a phone that works and functions well and i'll be happy.

ccrandall77
Aug 11, 2006, 03:40 PM
Well now you ignorant yankie ;) Firstly the mobile phone penetration in Europe is about 99% or maybe slighly more. You should really travel a bit to get some perspective.

And secondly, GSM has user base of over 1 billion while CDMA as you said has some 60m users. Which one you think would be more interesting market to cover for a new mobile phone manufacturer? And there is really no question of "we'll see which one wins" because GSM won a long long time ago, hands down.

I don't need to travel to know that >99% mobile phone penetration is complete BS. Are you trying to say that EVERYONE in Europe has a cell phone?

Well using the Dr's stat, GSM is 81% of the market. A good chunk of the remaining 19% is CDMA. So roughly 1/5th of the market, with much of that market in affluent areas, uses CDMA. I stand by my statement that it's a significant market that Apple would be foolish to pass on.

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 03:40 PM
So how many people in the world do you think have cell phones? Everyone?!?! Just doing a quick Google search, there were about 1.1billion cell users in the world in 2004. So, maybe it's up to 1.5 - 1.75bil now?

Now if there's ~700mil people in the EU with a workforce just under 400mil strong and internet usage is about 300mil. Ya, it would seem reasonable that roughly the same number of people use cell phones. Do you have a better estimate? I'm sure there's a lot of elderly, children, and poor in the 700mil that use cell phones, eh?

What about India, Japan, China? First of all, India and China have median incomes that are FAR less than the US or EU... so I doubt they have a relatively large cellular user base.

And oh, let me check with my cubemate.... yep, CDMA is used in parts of China.
Well, I dont know where to begin... I work in science and you have to trust me when I say that you can't deduct anything from the "facts" you have. You are guessing.
The fact is that GSM has 81% of the world market... and that makes cdma a small market.

sjo
Aug 11, 2006, 03:41 PM
Are you saying 99% of Europeans use cell phones or that 99% of Europe is cell-ready? If the former, then there must be a ton of kids yapping it up on the wireless. ;)

I'm saying that every one and their dog has a cell phone in Europe. Really. Quite literally. http://www.environmental-studies.de/products/Dog-Tracking/dog-tracking.html ;)

As soon as the kids goes to school they will get a phone and many people have several and machines utilizing mobile phones are getting more common, so in many countries the penetration number is now more than 100%.

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 03:42 PM
A good chunk of the remaining 19% is CDMA.
Ever heard of DoCoMo?

deconai
Aug 11, 2006, 03:42 PM
i just want a cell phone that works.

all these phones today(by all these phones i mean the motorolas i have had, so mayby motorola's jsut suck) have this ridiculous amount of latency when you are navigating the menus. cause they have to have all this fancy crap flyin around. its like phones are using the same technology from 5 years ago but they are just piling these features into them so they dog down. overall phones today seem to suck just a bit. my nokia 8260 was the best phone i ever had and it was monochrome with no camera or video or stupid crap like that...

I used to have a Motorola loaded with everything but the kitchen sink (that is, until my wife decided to wash it in the washing machine :P ). I got a cheap Samsung SGH-E317 to replace it and I swear it works 100% faster than my Moto. It seems to receive the signal stronger as well.

deconai
Aug 11, 2006, 03:43 PM
I'm saying that every one and their dog has a cell phone in Europe. Really. Quite literally. http://www.environmental-studies.de/products/Dog-Tracking/dog-tracking.html ;)

Now that's funny. XD

sjo
Aug 11, 2006, 03:44 PM
I don't need to travel to know that >99% mobile phone penetration is complete BS. Are you trying to say that EVERYONE in Europe has a cell phone?

Yes. EVERYONE. If you dont believe me, maybe you believe the economist:

http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=4351974

Please note that the graph is about three years old. Nowadays a lot more of the countries are over 100%.

ccrandall77
Aug 11, 2006, 03:45 PM
Well, I dont know where to begin... I work in science and you have to trust me when I say that you can't deduct anything from the "facts" you have. You are guessing.
The fact is that GSM has 81% of the world market... and that makes cdma a small market.
It's called an estimate... a scientist should know what that is. Care to dispute, then provide your own "facts". I also have a science background... big whoppde do! And I standby my assumption that the amount of internet usage is probably a good gauge of cell phone usage.

+15% of +1.5bil is hardly small. It may be in the minority, but +150mil people from affluent countries is a very profitable market.

ccrandall77
Aug 11, 2006, 03:47 PM
Yes. EVERYONE. If you dont believe me, maybe you believe the economist:

http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=4351974

Please note that the graph is about three years old. Nowadays a lot more of the countries are over 100%.

No, not EVERYONE. I own 4 cell phones. By your logic, I would be counted as 4 people.

deconai
Aug 11, 2006, 03:47 PM
Yes. EVERYONE. If you dont believe me, maybe you believe the economist:

http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=4351974

Please note that the graph is about three years old. Nowadays a lot more of the countries are over 100%.

That is insane! It's interesting to note the number of people with multiple phones...

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 03:48 PM
I standby my assumption that the amount of internet usage is probably a good gauge of cell phone usage.
I am sure you are...
Care to dispute, then provide your own "facts".
My assumption (http://www.gsmworld.com/index.shtml). I was wrong. It is not 81%, it is 82%. Sorry, I will check my sources better next time.

deconai
Aug 11, 2006, 03:48 PM
No, not EVERYONE. I own 4 cell phones. By your logic, I would be counted as 4 people.

I suppose you would be by the cell company.

ccrandall77
Aug 11, 2006, 03:50 PM
Ever heard of DoCoMo?
And....

Trying to say that DoCoMo is the majority of the other 19%? Doubt it.

gugy
Aug 11, 2006, 03:51 PM
i just want a cell phone that works.

all these phones today(by all these phones i mean the motorolas i have had, so mayby motorola's jsut suck) have this ridiculous amount of latency when you are navigating the menus. cause they have to have all this fancy crap flyin around. its like phones are using the same technology from 5 years ago but they are just piling these features into them so they dog down. overall phones today seem to suck just a bit. my nokia 8260 was the best phone i ever had and it was monochrome with no camera or video or stupid crap like that...

plus it seems that my phones ability to get reception when inside a building has gotten worse over time too. i used to get good reception inside my work, but now i don't. and its the same building.

so all in all, just give me a phone that works and functions well and i'll be happy.

I agree simplicity is everything!
Knowing Apple, I hope the Iphone will be simple and slick. That's all we really need.

ccrandall77
Aug 11, 2006, 03:53 PM
I suppose you would be by the cell company.

Well, I had been screwed about 4x as much as a typical cell user... at least when I had the misfortune and poor sense to have a Cingular contract.

sjo
Aug 11, 2006, 03:55 PM
No, not EVERYONE. I own 4 cell phones. By your logic, I would be counted as 4 people.

Only if you have an active subscribtion on all of them. That's the number the graph behind the link shows.

BTW, DoCoMo has over 50m subscribers, almost as much as CDMA in the US. And they are much more keen to renew their mobiles in Japan so Apple might make a smart move by making the iPhone available for DoCoMo subscribers before CDMA subscribers.

evilgEEk
Aug 11, 2006, 03:58 PM
I'm eligible for a new phone in just five days. As of right now I'm going to get the Chocolate because I like the style. Couldn't really care less about listening to music on my phone, that's what my iPod's for. ;)

But...but...if Apple does release a phone and I've already bought the Chocolate then I'll be kicking myself to no end. But on the other hand, how likely is it that the iPhone will even work on Verizon?

Bah! I need a new phone! :(

ccrandall77
Aug 11, 2006, 03:58 PM
Only if you have an active subscription on all of them. That's the number the graph behind the link shows.
That may be, but I highly doubt every infant, elderly folks, and the poverty stricken all have cell phones. If that's the case, then I'd have to say that there are a lot of people who's financial priorities are kinda messed.

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 03:59 PM
Only if you have an active subscription on all of them. That's the number the graph behind the link shows.
I have three subscriptions. Two in europe, one in US. How does that count?

deconai
Aug 11, 2006, 03:59 PM
Well, I had been screwed about 4x as much as a typical cell user... at least when I had the misfortune and poor sense to have a Cingular contract.

I think there are several people who have felt "screwed" by their wireless company, regardless of which company they chose to sign with. I have used Cingular from day one of my cell usage, and I have nothing but good things to say about their service. Of course, you're 4x more likely to get screwed, I guess. ;)

ccrandall77
Aug 11, 2006, 04:00 PM
I'm eligible for a new phone in just five days. As of right now I'm going to get the Chocolate because I like the style. Couldn't really care less about listening to music on my phone, that's what my iPod's for. ;)

But...but...if Apple does release a phone and I've already bought the Chocolate then I'll be kicking myself to no end. But on the other hand, how likely is it that the iPhone will even work on Verizon?

Bah! I need a new phone! :(

You might want to read some reviews on the Chocolate before buying it. I've seen a handful of reviews that were less than favorable.

A good resource is Phonescoop.com. They usually have a decent amount of user reviews upon which you can base your purchasing decisions.

sjo
Aug 11, 2006, 04:03 PM
That may be, but I highly doubt every infant, elderly folks, and the poverty stricken all have cell phones. If that's the case, then I'd have to say that there are a lot of people who's financial priorities are kinda messed.

No, not really. You see, mobile phone is cheaper to use than landline in many countries, especially for mobile to mobile calls. And when everyone else has a mobile phone, if you want to be connected you're better off buying a mobile.

shelterpaw
Aug 11, 2006, 04:04 PM
No, not EVERYONE. I own 4 cell phones. By your logic, I would be counted as 4 people.And you have all the personalities to go with them. :D

shelterpaw
Aug 11, 2006, 04:05 PM
Well, I had been screwed about 4x as much as a typical cell user... Prolific!

ccrandall77
Aug 11, 2006, 04:07 PM
I think there are several people who have felt "screwed" by their wireless company, regardless of which company they chose to sign with. I have used Cingular from day one of my cell usage, and I have nothing but good things to say about their service. Of course, you're 4x more likely to get screwed, I guess. ;)

I guess you are lucky. My wife had Cingular (old TDMA plan). She wanted to get a GSM phone and bought one off Amazon. We went to a local Cingular store (not a Cingular AUTHORIZED store, but a bona fide Cingular store) and the manager there cussed her out when she asked him to help her port her old number over to the new phone... all because he was mad that she didn't buy the phone from his store.

A few months later I received a bill with a $1395 charge for a 440MB data transfer that supposedly happened on a Saturday morning at 3am. If I wanted to download that much, which would be stupid since I already had SBC DSL, I would've just paid an extra $50 to upgrade to unlimited data. Everyone I talked to with Cingular were rude except for 1 tech guy and 1 person from the President's Office. But they still refused to do anything about the obviously bogus charge... and I refused to pay. :)

On my team at work, there are 22 Indian developers who have T-Mo and/or Cingular. All of the Cingular customers are either switching to Sprint (and getting the hybrid phone) or moving to T-Mobile. All of them complain about the rude customer service.

Back in 2004 or 2005, can't remember, some consumer magazine had Cingular rated deadlast in customer satisifaction. T-Mobile was #1... but sadly their satisfaction rating was only like 60-some-%, IIRC.

YMMV. But I've found Sprint to be the best. Customer Service is pretty good, but not as good as T-Mo. Coverage is decent, but not as good as VZW or Cingular. But while they may not be the best at anyone thing, they seem to be #2 in just about every category.

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 04:08 PM
That may be, but I highly doubt every infant, elderly folks, and the poverty stricken all have cell phones. If that's the case, then I'd have to say that there are a lot of people who's financial priorities are kinda messed.
What sjo wrote seem quite accurate. Cells are extremly common here. It has become so common that cellphones nowdays are almost considered as a anti-status symbol. Poor people cant "afford" a land line.
Many like me, have multiple contracts. Our old contracts, used to be roll-over type. Hence, a lot of people have many minutes left on their old contracts. They pay a small fee to keep the old contract alive and then use these minutes when they travel in abroad (expensive to call). Then they have a new contract that allows you to talk very cheap within a/some countries. These minutes are not roll-over type.
As you can see, we have a big mess too when it comes to contracts. I wish I could keep one phone and one number, but right now that is financially insane.

sjo
Aug 11, 2006, 04:09 PM
I have three subscriptions. Two in europe, one in US. How does that count?

Yeah, I've got several as well, if I spend more than two weeks in another country or visit there frequently I tend to get local subscription. Much more convenient to stay connected with the locals. This way I help more and more countries to get over the 100% treshold as well :rolleyes:

ccrandall77
Aug 11, 2006, 04:10 PM
No, not really. You see, mobile phone is cheaper to use than landline in many countries, especially for mobile to mobile calls. And when everyone else has a mobile phone, if you want to be connected you're better off buying a mobile.
OK, as skeptical as I am, I'll concede. And I envy you that your cell service is as cheap as it is.

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 04:12 PM
Yeah, I've got several as well, if I spend more than two weeks in another country or visit there frequently I tend to get local subscription. Much more convenient to stay connected with the locals. This way I help more and more countries to get over the 100% treshold as well :rolleyes:
LOL... be careful. Let us not start a flame war.;)

smitty330
Aug 11, 2006, 04:30 PM
These iPhone rumours continue to persist. I admit to being a sceptic, but maybe I'm wrong! I just hope that if they do do it, they do it well.

How dare you. Since when does apple release a product that is not up to par or even above. Of course they will do it good, it is apple. It is going to be amazing i can just feel it!

-Matthew

e-coli
Aug 11, 2006, 04:37 PM
How dare you. Since when does apple release a product that is not up to par or even above. Of course they will do it good, it is apple. It is going to be amazing i can just feel it!

Uhh...Motion version 1 was complete crap...totally unusable. Aperture...slow as Christmas, and has serious image degradation problems.

Don't buy into all the hype.

Apple's stock keeps sinking, and they're being investigated by the SEC (or on the brink), so this could be a rumor that's being intentionally leaked to satisfy Wall Street.

bigmc6000
Aug 11, 2006, 04:50 PM
Well now you ignorant yankie ;) Firstly the mobile phone penetration in Europe is about 99% or maybe slighly more. You should really travel a bit to get some perspective.

And secondly, GSM has user base of over 1 billion while CDMA as you said has some 60m users. Which one you think would be more interesting market to cover for a new mobile phone manufacturer? And there is really no question of "we'll see which one wins" because GSM won a long long time ago, hands down.

But you're really forgetting 1 thing. International Trade Mark/patent law is a pain in the @$$!!! I wouldn't blame Apple for 1 min to keep it in the US for at least a test run. That way they should be able to keep the patent breaker-reverse engineers off their back for a least a little while (i.e. why copy something if you can't even use it anywhere other than where it's patent protected).

If the rest of the world would get a handle on international trademarking and patent protection I don't think we'd have this issue of different standards of EU vs USA...

cherry38
Aug 11, 2006, 05:04 PM
You might want to read some reviews on the Chocolate before buying it. I've seen a handful of reviews that were less than favorable.

A good resource is Phonescoop.com. They usually have a decent amount of user reviews upon which you can base your purchasing decisions.

I just bought a chocolate and I absolutely love it. Great battery, great sound, best reception out of any Verizon phone I'd ever had.

The best thing - IT DOESN'T HAVE THE STANDARD VERIZON USER INTERFACE! I really hate how Verizon forces that onto all of their phones now.

I'd say go for it :)

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 05:10 PM
But you're really forgetting 1 thing. International Trade Mark/patent law is a pain in the @$$!!! I wouldn't blame Apple for 1 min to keep it in the US for at least a test run. That way they should be able to keep the patent breaker-reverse engineers off their back for a least a little while (i.e. why copy something if you can't even use it anywhere other than where it's patent protected).

If the rest of the world would get a handle on international trademarking and patent protection I don't think we'd have this issue of different standards of EU vs USA...
:confused: patent intrusion in europe??? Are you serious? Do you have any examples to verify your claims where a european company violated US patent law and this wasn't enforced by the european judicial system?

bigmc6000
Aug 11, 2006, 05:16 PM
:confused: patent intrusion in europe??? Are you serious? Do you have any examples to verify your claims where a european company violated US patent law and this wasn't enforced by the european judicial system?

Go buy, oh say, Clerks II (or some other movie that just came out) on DVD. It's a hell of a lot easier to find it in Europe than it is here (obviously assumption to you not already knowing where to get it)...

And seriously what's the EU court going to do? "We'll fine you", "No really we're not kidding", "Ok, we fine you!", "Oh, you want an appeal, ok. We won't fine you yet"

(Has MS ever paid a dime of the millions of dollars they've been "fined"??, note I'm not saying the US system is any better but the EU certainly isn't.)

The main point is that, as people have continually pointed out, the wireless technology available in Europe is the same as what's being used in India and China. AKA - the reverse-engineers in China just love to get ahold of stuff that works with what they've got...

lazyrighteye
Aug 11, 2006, 05:34 PM
Hahahha coverage maps don't mean jack.Everyone in the wireless business knows they are gross approximations of the reality.
I was on Cingular from when they were PacBell wireless through 2 years of Cingular. I am on T-Mobile for 3 plus years. I have friends on all the major carriers as well so I have compared. I use a Unlocked Motorola V620 yes a European phone never officially sold in the U.S. It Alpha tags off the Tower not off the sim chip. T-Mobile and Cingular did a good job of software programming so their phones would Alpha tag off the sim chip instead of the Towers for their branded locked phones.
I can pretty much travel anywhere in the country and tell you exactly who's Tower is being used. All of California is Cingular Towers. Oregon is T-Mobile, Chicago area is T-Mobile and oh yeah works really well.
I know the cell business pretty damn well. you might as well give up your losing this debate.

Agreed. Coverage maps are just estimations represented in pretty shapes and color. It's hardly scientific.
Ex: I was a T-Mobile user for 6 years in Denver. I moved from the south side of town to the north side and only after closing on our house did I realize I could not make or receive any calls from the house - I literally had to walk around the block before I could get a signal. Quite a pain. And every "coverage map" T-Mobile had indicated I should fall under excellent coverage. Alas...

I have since switched carriers to VZW (yuk!) and am desperate for Apple to get into the game and redefine this whole mobile phone mess... er... experience much like they did with the portable music player. We all know it's coming. It's the details of how Apple will deliver that has us all here.

From what I have seen from Apple over the years, they're all about control. I predict their emphasis on control/integration will have them launching an MVNO (seemingly out-of-the-blue) that will make everyone wonder why we tolerated Verizon, Cingular, T-Mobile and the rest as long as we have.

I can't wait.

conradzoo
Aug 11, 2006, 05:49 PM
Confused.

Can somebody explain me the differences between the cellphone market between the US and Europe.

Will a 'iPhone' just be marketed to the US or worldwide (as the iPod does)?

C.:confused:

mark!
Aug 11, 2006, 05:57 PM
These rumors have been going for so long. Since 2003, right? 3 Years is a lot for technology.

But atleast we know they can't be just sitting there. With both the nano, and iPod with video being almost 1 year old, they can't just be sitting there. :)

Just gimme a new iPod & "iPhone". :)

evilgEEk
Aug 11, 2006, 06:08 PM
You might want to read some reviews on the Chocolate before buying it. I've seen a handful of reviews that were less than favorable.

A good resource is Phonescoop.com. They usually have a decent amount of user reviews upon which you can base your purchasing decisions.
A good friend of mine just bought one and it definitely seems to be the best phone Verizon is currently offering. I also want a slider, I'm tired of flip phones, although if the iPhone was a flip I'm sure I could handle a flip phone for a few more years. ;)

Verizon's phone selection is just horrible, but that's not enough for me to change services. Especially since I've personally never had a single problem with Verizon coverage or customer service, they've always been great.

I think I'm going to hold off for a month or so, just because I don't have the cash to get a Chocolate and then an iPhone. And if an iPhone is released, I'll obviously have to get one. ;)


EDIT: Thanks for the link though, I'll definitely check it out. :)

fluidinclusion
Aug 11, 2006, 06:17 PM
These rumors surrounding the iPhone have been around for quite a while now, so I sure hope it becomes reality sooner rather than later. Who knows, if it’s really good I may actually buy my first cell phone ever. :cool:

I have not yet bought a cell phone. This summer it would have been useful, but I've been waiting for Apple (I know it's not the best idea with no real timeline).

The sooner it's released, the more likely the phone I buy will be from Apple.

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 06:31 PM
Go buy, oh say, Clerks II (or some other movie that just came out) on DVD. It's a hell of a lot easier to find it in Europe than it is here (obviously assumption to you not already knowing where to get it)...

And seriously what's the EU court going to do? "We'll fine you", "No really we're not kidding", "Ok, we fine you!", "Oh, you want an appeal, ok. We won't fine you yet"

(Has MS ever paid a dime of the millions of dollars they've been "fined"??, note I'm not saying the US system is any better but the EU certainly isn't.)

The main point is that, as people have continually pointed out, the wireless technology available in Europe is the same as what's being used in India and China. AKA - the reverse-engineers in China just love to get ahold of stuff that works with what they've got...
First of all, bootleg copies can be found in all countries. Any idiot can copy a movie. Patent infringements like copying a complex mobile system is however a totally different story from copy a movie. For starters, you need a factory. A factory that is not raided by the police. Have you been to europe??? There is no chance in hell you could get away with that over here. None of these factories are located in Europe, but in Asia (or China to be more specific). Ok, you can find the merchandize in europe, but just cruise around in lower manhattan for a day and you will see that you can buy fake Louis Vuitton designer in more or less every corner. Does that mean Apple should close down the store at Fifth ave??

Furthermore, how hard is it to get a sample of any product you want to copy? Do you really think these people will be stoped just because it is only sold in US? People can actually fly from one country to another nowdays. Should Apple make sure all customers buying thier products are american citizens?

Patent infringements is a global problem that steems from the fact that the chinese government doesnt crack down on blatant violations. Even if I agree with you that patent violations should be prosecuted more vigorously, there are some serious gaps in your argumentation. Europe isn't the problem here and restricting sales is absolutely not an answer to the problem.

aiongiant
Aug 11, 2006, 06:33 PM
wooooo
yea! i was gonna buy the Sony K800 but now i'll wait a bit longer if the iPhone is really coming out casue i want one!

i just bought the Mac Pro thought so a Sept/Oct release is jsut enough for me work my ass off so i can afford the iPhone :D

miketcool
Aug 11, 2006, 06:38 PM
You all must realize now that the touch screen scroll wheel is for the iPhone, not, the iPod. You wont watch video's on your phone, but youll listen to audio, dial numbers and store info. The Video player will be a spin off and be video oriented, this will be mobile oriented. $399, I'd still buy a mobile hub with music and phone capabilities.

It Cometh.

stormj
Aug 11, 2006, 06:41 PM
We can argue in circles about whether GSM or CDMA is better. Each has its advantages. The fact remains that GSM networks are everywhere, including the US. CDMA networks exist on a tiny scale outside of the US.

UMTS uses W-CDMA anyway, so for that part of the technology, which is critical to the itunes store working, you'll get those much touted soft-handoffs. Only the voice part (assuming you're not in a VOIP connection) would go by the allegedly inferior GSM connection.

I'd bet a significant chunk of money that Apple makes a GSM version of any phone it produces, regardless of whether or not it does make a CDMA version.

P.S. no w-IDEN defenders? lolz.

cheekyspanky
Aug 11, 2006, 06:47 PM
wooooo
yea! i was gonna buy the Sony K800 but now i'll wait a bit longer if the iPhone is really coming out casue i want one!

The K800 battery life is rubbish I've found, I wouldn't particularly recommend one, same with the K610i.

I guess this phone will be sold directly though Apple, as it would take months for the mobile phone networks to take a new handset through all the internal testing stages.

I've never paid for a phone up til now (as is the case with most UK residents I'd assume) so it would be an impressive feat if Apple can persuade people in this type of marketplace to actually put their hands in their pockets for a phone.

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 11, 2006, 06:49 PM
Confused.

Can somebody explain me the differences between the cellphone market between the US and Europe.

Will a 'iPhone' just be marketed to the US or worldwide (as the iPod does)?

C.:confused:
The biggest difference would be that in europe we use GSM-system (900 Mhz and 1800Mhz) whereas US use both CDMA and GSM (850MHz and 1900Mhz)
A typical triband GSM phone enables you to call more or less all over the world whereas a CDMA is more or less restricted to use it in US and some countries in Asia. CDMA and GSM are two incompatible system like windows and OSX, i.e they dont "speak" with each other. One difference you notice as a user is that GSM phones has a SIM card which more or less is your identity. That is, if you have an unlocked cellphone you can change operators whenever you feel like it. This is not possible with CDMA cellphones.
Celphones are also much more common in europe and the "typical" cellphone user is not that tied up to an operator as a "typical" US user. Carriers in europe don't cripple the phones like some do in US.
I am sure there are man more differences, but these were the only that came to my mind right now.

enda1
Aug 11, 2006, 06:56 PM
Is Europe not a way bigger mobile phone market than the US anyway. I don't see why any technology company would alienate a huge sector of its market in this way. It will definitely be released in Europe too.

It will not be a flip phone, or a slide phone or any of those stupid ass gimmicky phones you use over there. It will be just a nano derivative I would say. It will be GSM, it will be quad band.

Signed,

Stevie J ;)

theBB
Aug 11, 2006, 07:28 PM
Confused.

Can somebody explain me the differences between the cellphone market between the US and Europe.

Will a 'iPhone' just be marketed to the US or worldwide (as the iPod does)?

Well, let's see, about 20 years ago, a lot of countries in Europe, Asia and elsewhere decided on a standard digital cell phone system and called it GSM. About 15 years ago GSM networks became quite widespread across these countries. In the meantime US kept on using analog cell phones. Motorola did not even believe that digital cell phone had much of a future, so it decided to stay away from this market, a decision which almost bankrupted the company.

US started rolling out digital service only about 10 years ago. As US government does not like to dictate private companies how to conduct their business, they sold the spectrum and put down some basic ground rules, but for the most part they let the service providers use any network they wished. For one reason or another, these providers decided go with about 4 different standards at first. Quite a few companies went with GSM, AT&T picked a similar, but incompatible TDMA (IS=136?) standard, Nextel went with a proprietary standard they called iDEN and Sprint and Verizon went with CDMA, a radically different standard (IS-95) designed by Qualcomm. At the time, other big companies were very skeptical, so Qualcomm had to not only develop the underlying communication standards, but manufacture cell phones and the electronics for the cell towers. However, once the system proved itself, everybody started moving in that direction. Even the upcoming 3G system for these GSM networks, called UMTS, use a variant of CDMA technology.

CDMA is a more complicated standard compared to GSM, but it allows the providers to cram more users into each cell, it is supposedly cheaper to maintain and more flexible in some respects. However, anybody in that boat has to pay hefty royalties to Qualcomm, dampening its popularity. While creating UMTS, GSM standards bodies did everything they could to avoid using Qualcomm patents to avoid these payments. However, I don't know how successful they got in these efforts.

Even though Europeans here on these forums like to gloat that US did not join the worldwide standard, that we did not play along, that ours is a hodge podge of incompatible systems; without the freedom to try out different standards, CDMA would not have the opportunity to prove its feasibility and performance. In the end, the rest of the world is also reaping the benefits through UMTS/WCDMA.

Of course, not using the same standards as everybody else has its own price. The components of CDMA cell phones cost more and the system itself is more complicated, so CDMA versions of cell phones hit the market six months to a year after their GSM counterparts, if at all. The infrastructure cost of a rare system is higher as well, so AT&T had to rip apart its network to replace it with GSM version about five years after rolling it out. Sprint is probably going to convert Nextel's system in the near future as well.

I hope this answers your question.

chubad
Aug 11, 2006, 07:37 PM
If Apple makes a phone, I will order one on the spot. If the interface is as well thought out and simple as the iPod, then it will be a smash hit.:D

fluidinclusion
Aug 11, 2006, 07:42 PM
I probably won't buy a phone without GPS capabilities. I will pay for the option, however.

rt_brained
Aug 11, 2006, 07:55 PM
Is Europe not a way bigger mobile phone market than the US anyway. I don't see why any technology company would alienate a huge sector of its market in this way. It will definitely be released in Europe too.

It will not be a flip phone, or a slide phone or any of those stupid ass gimmicky phones you use over there. It will be just a nano derivative I would say. It will be GSM, it will be quad band.
And coin-operated.

Deefuzz
Aug 11, 2006, 08:20 PM
Using TimeMachine, Steve is going to release it two years ago.

LOL...the gem of the thread! Thanks for the laugh :D

RedTomato
Aug 11, 2006, 08:26 PM
I probably won't buy a phone without GPS capabilities. I will pay for the option, however.

Why not just ring someone and ask where you are? Or wait for the guy on the seat next to you to ring his girlfriend?

evilgEEk
Aug 11, 2006, 08:55 PM
Why not just ring someone and ask where you are? Or wait for the guy on the seat next to you to ring his girlfriend?
If you don't know where you are, how is someone else going to know where you are? And what if the guy next to you just dumped his girlfriend? Then you're in real trouble! ;)

My next phone will be GPS capable as well. If the iPhone doesn't have GPS then I probably won't get it.

aswitcher
Aug 11, 2006, 09:11 PM
Apple can really lead the way with GPS if they start putting it in iPods and iPhones, as well as the next generation of portable Macs.

Even a Mac wrist watch with GPS and BT like the Suunto range would rock - and I am sure sell well.

RedTomato
Aug 11, 2006, 09:31 PM
Apple won't put GPS in unless they can create a whole new 'Apple' interface for it.

I'm no GPS expert, but I'm not sure how they could do that with a simple candybar phone. It would need to be some sort of smartphone / pocketPC thing.

aswitcher
Aug 11, 2006, 09:45 PM
Apple won't put GPS in unless they can create a whole new 'Apple' interface for it.

I'm no GPS expert, but I'm not sure how they could do that with a simple candybar phone. It would need to be some sort of smartphone / pocketPC thing.


We have rumours of something like Google Earth called Maps.

GPS can be put in soemthing the size of a watch.

I think its a strong possibility in the next few years.

Greeney
Aug 11, 2006, 10:24 PM
Personally I don't care, as long as its GSM...

JRM PowerPod
Aug 11, 2006, 11:46 PM
The K800 battery life is rubbish I've found, I wouldn't particularly recommend one, same with the K610i.

I would recommend it, battery life is rubbish if you're taking 3.2 megapixel photos all the time, on your 3G content, and playing music, but i've found for such a feature packed phone it still gets about 3-4days standyby on my network, obviously this is going to be depedent on who is your service provider

Westside guy
Aug 11, 2006, 11:50 PM
What sjo wrote seem quite accurate. Cells are extremly common here. It has become so common that cellphones nowdays are almost considered as a anti-status symbol. Poor people cant "afford" a land line.

I'm old enough to remember that cell phones became the norm in much of what used to be known as Eastern Europe based on simple economics. In many former Soviet-bloc countries the telephone infrastructure was spotty or even non-existent, and setting up cellular phone networks was a heck of a lot cheaper than laying new phone lines all over the countryside.

Of course that's not particularly relevant to Western Europe market penetration; but it does explain how cell phones are so prevalent Europe-wide.

evilgEEk
Aug 12, 2006, 12:08 AM
Apple won't put GPS in unless they can create a whole new 'Apple' interface for it.

I'm no GPS expert, but I'm not sure how they could do that with a simple candybar phone. It would need to be some sort of smartphone / pocketPC thing.
I don't think size is much of an issue with GPS. The Chocolate by LG is a candybar slider and it has GPS in it.

bigmc6000
Aug 12, 2006, 12:11 AM
Is Europe not a way bigger mobile phone market than the US anyway. I don't see why any technology company would alienate a huge sector of its market in this way. It will definitely be released in Europe too.

It will not be a flip phone, or a slide phone or any of those stupid ass gimmicky phones you use over there. It will be just a nano derivative I would say. It will be GSM, it will be quad band.

Signed,

Stevie J ;)

Well if it's only going to be GSM, not a flip or slide phone you might as well not even release it in the US. Just ask Cingular how amazing the Slvr has done.

Another thing you are assuming is that Apple considers Europe a major player of it's market. It's a chunk that's for sure but how many TV shows does Europe have on their iTunes?

If it's a candy-bar phone I won't buy it. If I have to sacrifice coverage in the US just so I can use it on the very very very rare occasion I head to Europe (along with changing my plan to allow for overseas calls) I won't buy it either. I really think it'd be a bad idea to do all of that. But than again they did make the newton...

davisjw
Aug 12, 2006, 12:17 AM
Is this going to be a phone or more of a hybrid cell/ blackberry... Seeing as its from a computer company I hope its more of a hybrid and will be in perfect sync with my Macs!

Abstract
Aug 12, 2006, 01:35 AM
What OS will the iPhone be running? :confused:


Mac OS Kitten.

ZLurker
Aug 12, 2006, 02:05 AM
Mac OS Kitten.
LOL!!
Good one!

Timepass
Aug 12, 2006, 02:33 AM
Apple won't put GPS in unless they can create a whole new 'Apple' interface for it.

I'm no GPS expert, but I'm not sure how they could do that with a simple candybar phone. It would need to be some sort of smartphone / pocketPC thing.

if they want to work with US law they will put GPS in it. I dont remember when all call company have it done by but after a certain point all companiy must be able to find anyone with in so many feet when a 911 call is made. most chose to go the GPS route for that.

Also I know my 3 last sprint flip phones all had GPS and I know the verizon razer has GPS in it.

And I pretty sure cingular phones have GPS in it since they all have the ableity to use mapping programs for the phones.

jibjab kalonji
Aug 12, 2006, 02:37 AM
hey this is great news. if this piece of crap does in fact come out, i will be really disappointed if it doesn't come with a built-in flashlight, red laser pointer, and classic support.

netdog
Aug 12, 2006, 02:40 AM
I'll be happy as long as it resurrects the Wild Eep.

Evangelion
Aug 12, 2006, 03:45 AM
iPhone = bad idea and difficult to implement beyond the USA.

If they are smart, they will make it a GSM/UMTS-phone, which is THE most widely used system there is. Then it would work in just about everywhere. USA is just about the only place using those weird systems for mobile phone, but they do use GSM in USA as well. So why use anything else than GSM?

Evangelion
Aug 12, 2006, 03:51 AM
Is it possible for Apple to release a phone sold in their stores that would work on all networks? Or have several versions of the phone that will work for Verizon, Cingular...

I'll never be ceased at just how retarded the phone-system is outside Finland (or Scandinavia). I just buy a phone, and I get a SIM-card, and boom, it just works. I can replace the SIM at will, and it will just work. No hassle, no worries that "but this phone wotn work with that operator!". Unsatisfied with your current operator? It takes maybe ten minutes to get a new operator, and you get to keep your old number, AND your phone (it is YOUR phone, after all!).

I think that the scheme where the phones are tied to certain operator is just plain retarded. This is a perfect example as to why that is so. And I'm REALLY surprised that you folks (the rest of the world that is) hasn't seen the light on this issue. You just happily accept a scheme that limits choice and competition.

RedTomato
Aug 12, 2006, 03:58 AM
Ah but Finland is a tiny social democrat country that's home to some of the world's largest mobile companies. They like to give a bit back to their home communities.

For example, deaf people in Finland get free / very cheap video-capable mobile phones and very cheap video calling rates so that they can sign to each other on the phone. (or access sign/ spoken language translation services - very important for work)

The rest of us deaf people around the world are screaming for the same thing, but do we get it bollocks? Videophoning on a mobile remains majorly expensive for anything more than a few minutes per month.

Padraig
Aug 12, 2006, 04:13 AM
If there is a phone on the way i'm guessing that we can be sure of few things.

1) Can't see it being a clamshell. Perhaps a slider, but in all likelyhood it will be a candybar - fits in with apple designs aesthetic, simple, elegant design.

2) It will have to be GSM, UMTS being included as well. There is no way Apple is releasing a CDMA only phone, the market is tiny.

3) I'm sure Apple will release this by themselves, rather than partnering up with a specific carrier. This would allow people who are already tied into contracts to purchase the phone, without having to switch networks. Also couldn't invisage Apple agreeing to something like Vodafone's software.

ImNoSuperMan
Aug 12, 2006, 04:29 AM
I don't believe the rumor - Steve wouldn't blab, he just wouldn't.

We only have a month to wait, though. :)

Exactly the same reaction I had when I first read the rumor. It just doesnt sound like the Steve we know.

But who cares. I just want the iPhone to be launched asap. I really hope it`s unlocked GSM phone so that I can use it in my country. It`ll really suck if it`s USA only.

Padraig
Aug 12, 2006, 05:04 AM
Exactly the same reaction I had when I first read the rumor. It just doesnt sound like the Steve we know.

But who cares. I just want the iPhone to be launched asap. I really hope it`s unlocked GSM phone so that I can use it in my country. It`ll really suck if it`s USA only.

It may have been leaked on purpose. In light of the recent investigation into financial irregularities, this may have been to steady the floor.

Also regarding mobile-phone saturation in Europe, i'd have to say it's almost 100%. I don't think Americans realise how cheap and easy it is to get a phone in Europe. It has gotten to the stage where they are almost a disposable item. For 50 euro you can get a nokia camera-phone, with 40 euro call credit. Of course this will be an entry level phone, but decent nonetheless.

Every kid here in Ireland seems to have one. Only last week i helped a homeless man enter credit into his phone, I couldn't believe it, i was shocked when he asked me. Turns out its not so uncommon, charities give them old phones and help keep them charged. It represents some security for them, emergency calls are always free.

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 12, 2006, 06:05 AM
Ah but Finland is a tiny social democrat country that's home to some of the world's largest mobile companies. They like to give a bit back to their home communities.
We have the same cell phone system in Sweden, Denmark, Norway as in Finland. I am almost certain that Iceland has the same system too.

guet
Aug 12, 2006, 06:28 AM
I've never paid for a phone up til now (as is the case with most UK residents I'd assume) so it would be an impressive feat if Apple can persuade people in this type of marketplace to actually put their hands in their pockets for a phone.

I'd pay a couple of hundred pounds for an iPod, so I'd definitely pay that for an iPod which happened to be a phone, pda, gps combo. Millions of iPod/pda users are the market for this kind of device, so it's not the entire phone market, but a good slice of it.

joemama
Aug 12, 2006, 07:03 AM
Who says Apple has to piggy-back off of another carrier? Let's not forget the large distribution center Apple bought some time back. Maybe the delay in the phone has more to to with that.

Steve holds grudges. While I think the Rokr was more of a market test, he won't go back with Cingular. We all know if Apple is going to do anything they are going to do it right - with Steve calling the shots.

sanmiguel
Aug 12, 2006, 07:15 AM
fake obviously but it seems like a nice possibility....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5qGn7kIkMA

vendettabass
Aug 12, 2006, 07:26 AM
fake obviously but it seems like a nice possibility....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5qGn7kIkMA

that'd be insane!!!

how about this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWn9bz7mjvY

QuarterSwede
Aug 12, 2006, 07:48 AM
It may have been leaked on purpose. In light of the recent investigation into financial irregularities, this may have been to steady the floor.

Also regarding mobile-phone saturation in Europe, i'd have to say it's almost 100%. I don't think Americans realise how cheap and easy it is to get a phone in Europe. It has gotten to the stage where they are almost a disposable item. For 50 euro you can get a nokia camera-phone, with 40 euro call credit. Of course this will be an entry level phone, but decent nonetheless.

Every kid here in Ireland seems to have one. Only last week i helped a homeless man enter credit into his phone, I couldn't believe it, i was shocked when he asked me. Turns out its not so uncommon, charities give them old phones and help keep them charged. It represents some security for them, emergency calls are always free.
You can get a cheap cell phone in the US as well. We call them track phones, go phones, boost (pay to add minutes to the phone). Even drug dealers use them so they can toss the phone when the deal is done and not be tracked. In the long run they are much more expensive then just getting a provider and plan.

Back on topic, Apple's iPhone will have to be pretty sweet and work very well for me to buy one. I love my SE W600i for the UI alone. Its very intuitive and works very well.

I'm thinking it'll look similarly like the Nano (as to kill the RAZR in size) yet have a click wheel that is integrated into the key pad. I saw a mockup last year that was VERY convincing because it was ingenious but haven't seen it since. The clickwheel was indented into the keypad area. I wish I could find that picture.

April Dancer
Aug 12, 2006, 08:45 AM
Blimey, you guys do like to get your knickers in a knot for no reason! ;)

Whatever the ins and outs of networks etc across the globe, I'm sure it's something that Steve will have thought of. He's not going to want to limit this phone to just a percentage of the available users, he'll want it to be used by as many as possible, of course. So CDMA/GSM whatever, he'll have it covered.

I still think it'll be sim free and sold through the AS, with an eye on targeting those people who might have bought a Nano. OK it will affect Nano sales but it'll still be Apple who get the shekels and, if people want a phone with mp3 capability, they're only going to do what I did with the W800 if there's no Apple alternative. Apple might as well have a share of that market.

But mostly I just want him to get it out already. My W800 has given up the ghost and my contract is up now! I can't live without a phone and might have to be forced into the W850 when it comes out. I'd really hate to do that and know that the Mac Mobile is round the corner. :rolleyes:

pink-pony115
Aug 12, 2006, 10:47 AM
I'm a sucker for a new hot phone.

I got a rockr...and remember how that turned out. :o

Frankly I'm sick of the iPhone rumors.

Daringescape
Aug 12, 2006, 10:49 AM
If this phone would affect Nano sales, do you think that could be the reason Apple is giving them away with MacBook and MacBookPro sales? Trying to get rid of extra stock before the iPhone is released?

just a thought

Russ